Mari Fong interviews Anna Gevorkian and Shaunt Sulahian of Satellite Citi on OCD and PMDD with Chris Trondsen, M.S., AMFT, APCC, OCD Specialist & Therapist.
Satellite Citi share solutions for Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder or OCD and Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder or PMDD. Shaunt Sulahian talks about his late OCD diagnosis and the havoc it wreaked on his life along with the ERP therapy that turned his life around. Anna Gevorkian shares on PMDD which is severe PMS that causes deep depression and anxiety and her solutions for recovery. We play a clip of "Empath" off their debut album Fear Tactics which drops Sept. 3, 2021.
This mental health expert spent 3 years of his life house-bound by OCD before finding the therapy that saved his life. Expert Chris Trondsen is an OCD specialist, therapist, VP of the International Foundation's OCD SoCal affiliate and nationwide speaker and advocate for OCD. Chris Trondsen gives us OCD knowledge along with the therapy that has up to an 86% success rate. Chris talks about PMDD and how hormones and genetics can trigger mood disorders along with his solutions for recovery.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to the Check Your Head podcast, the podcast
where notable musicians andexperts share their stories and
solutions for mental health andwellness.
I'm your host, Mari Fong, amusic journalist and life coach
for musicians, and today I'mstarting with some exciting
(00:21):
news.
The Check Your Head podcast hasbeen nominated for a People's
Choice Award for the 2021 MusicPodcast Awards, a very
prestigious honor, so a hugethank you to all of our loyal
listeners.
It really feels good to knowthat you enjoy the podcast as we
also create some positive changeas well.
(00:41):
Now for today's featured guests.
This married rock duo is made upof vocalist and drummer Anna
Kevorkian and her husband,guitarist Shant Suleyhan, who
write rock music with a purpose,to speak out on issues such as
the conflict in Armenia withtheir song Antibody, and songs
like Empath that encourageothers with their mental health,
(01:03):
both songs off their upcomingdebut album, Fear Tactics.
You'll also hear a clip of theirsingle Empath later in our
episode.
Satellite City's album releaseshow will be at the Troubadour
this Saturday, September 4th,2021 in Los Angeles, which will
also benefit mental health formusicians, with the band kindly
(01:24):
donating a portion of theirticket sales to Sweet Relief
Musicians Fund and the CheckYour Head podcast.
So come enjoy the show with ussafely, and when you buy two
tickets to the show attroubadour.com, bring your
ticket receipt to the merchbooth for a free Satellite City
t-shirt.
Sean and Anna of Satellite Citywill share their solutions for
(01:46):
living with two different typesof anxiety.
Sean with obsessive compulsivedisorder, or OCD, and Anna with
premenstrual dysphoric disorder,or PMDD.
Next, I'll interview OCD expertand therapist, Chris Tronson,
who not only treats OCDpatients, but also had severe
(02:07):
OCD before finally finding thetherapy that literally saved his
life.
Now Chris is an advocate andnational speaker for OCD and
leader at OCD SouthernCalifornia, an affiliate of the
International OCD Foundation.
But first, let's hear Anna andSean of Satellite City share
(02:27):
their story.
SPEAKER_02 (02:27):
Empath, which was our most recent single, I felt
that song tied the whole recordtogether, and lyrically that was
focused the most on mentalhealth, so...
Yeah, I kind of just wanted asimilar theme for the album
title as well.
SPEAKER_00 (02:45):
Yeah, I really love the lyrics.
In fact, you have a lyric in thechorus that says, there's
nothing left to do but break thewall off your fence.
Open yourself to the truth.
Don't throw away all of you.
I was wondering if you canexplain the message behind those
lyrics.
SPEAKER_02 (03:03):
Basically, it's better to express what you're
going through because if youkeep it in, that kind of eats
away at you little by little.
And whether it's talking tofamily, friends, or getting
professional help, I thinktalking about it is the first
step so it doesn't eat you upevery day.
And that would be throwing awayall of you because you're
(03:25):
keeping it in so much.
And eventually, it's going totake a toll on you.
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
It's like embracing...
all the things that you feelinsecure about or that are
weighing you down and just beinghonest with yourself and
overcoming that by talking aboutit, by getting help and stop
putting up a defense like thewalls.
Just be open with yourself anddon't give up on yourself.
(03:52):
That's probably the main messagethere.
SPEAKER_02 (03:55):
That was our message for that song.
Taking the first step and beingproactive is essential.
SPEAKER_00 (04:02):
Yeah, it takes a lot of bravery to really speak out.
But one thing I really liked isyou said, don't throw away all
of you.
And I do think that sometimes,whether it's a musician or
someone we know, they may bestruggling with something that
they don't understand.
And instead of going for help orgoing through all the steps that
(04:23):
take work, they may end uphurting themselves, losing their
life because they're They wantto throw away all of themselves.
So I think it's a reallyimportant lyric.
Thank you.
But I was reading, Sean, thatyou were diagnosed with OCD,
which is obsessive compulsivedisorder.
(04:43):
Can you tell me when you firststarted noticing the symptoms?
SPEAKER_02 (04:47):
Yeah, I can tell you exactly when I first started
noticing.
It was September and it was fiveyears ago, September.
Yeah, I just didn't understandfor a very long time what was
happening.
And OCD is something that isdifferent for everyone.
What the average person mightknow of OCD is germaphobic, but
(05:09):
there's so much more to thatcondition.
OCD can be repeating images,repeating phrases in your mind,
or it could be repeatingcompulsions that have nothing to
do with images or phrases.
And for me, it started withimages in my mind.
And I didn't understand what wasgoing on.
My heart was racing all thetime.
(05:30):
I thought it was just anxiety.
I just had no concept of what itwas.
And it took me quite some time.
Actually, last year was thefirst time I saw a therapist
that used science-based therapyto diagnose me and to help treat
my OCD.
(05:50):
So yeah, it took me four years,four years to figure that out.
Because of a plethora ofreasons, number one, being
Armenian, in my culture, youdon't talk much about mental
health.
You just get the whole toughlove and kind of...
brush off your shoulders and getup and try to figure it out
(06:11):
yourself.
And that doesn't work witheveryone.
It really doesn't.
My family was supportive.
I'm not gonna lie, my parentsdefinitely wanted to help me,
but coming from their ownbackground, they didn't know
much about mental health either.
So it was hard for them to showthe kind of support that I
needed because they didn't wantme to go ahead and rush off to a
(06:34):
therapist because to them itmight have showed weakness.
But eventually, I decided Ineeded to see one because the
pandemic and quarantine was thelast straw.
And I did.
And since then, I've definitelyhad an upward slope.
SPEAKER_00 (06:52):
Now, you're both married to each other.
And Anna, I'm wondering, how didthe OCD symptoms affect your
relationship?
We didn't really know what itwas.
And we just thought...
It was just a really heightenedform of anxiety.
And he's actually really awesomewhere it didn't affect our
(07:13):
relationship in a negative way.
But also, he keeps things in alot.
So I had to really pullinformation out of him and
figure out what was going on andour generation growing up with
the internet we alwaysresearched oh why does my left
arm feel weird when I lie downthis way or something like that
(07:34):
so he was doing research and hestumbled upon the OCD thing and
I think that's when I startedresearching too and we both got
super into it and then he had toteach me how the treatment that
he's he did which was exposureresponse like how I would Be
supportive of that.
So if he was dealing withsomething, I know how to respond
(07:57):
to it because for OCD, it'sdifferent.
Like positive thinking andreinforcing things and making
myself feel more calm helps me.
But for OCD, you're actuallysupposed to really lean into
that fear that you're having.
and expose yourself to it.
So I had to learn how to respondto him when he was dealing with
(08:20):
something.
Instead of making him feelbetter, I had to respond in the
correct way, have him deal withthe problem then and there
because definitely putting abandaid over something like that
does not work.
SPEAKER_02 (08:35):
Exposure response prevention is the main therapy
that I have undergone And themain thing that has helped me
tremendously, just an examplefor listeners who don't know
what that is.
For example, let's say I'll behanging out in a park and I am
(08:55):
having this fear that this treeis like wobbling and it's going
to fall on me.
I'm going to have to sit by thattree and tell myself this tree
is going to fall on me.
It's going to crush me.
I'm going to die.
And I have to sit there in mydiscomfort and wallow in this
discomfort and just repeat thatto myself that this tree is
(09:15):
going to fall on me.
I'm going to die and be okaywith that.
And that's the only way thesymptoms of OCD start to
decrease.
SPEAKER_00 (09:23):
Really?
So it's like accepting yourgreatest fear.
What's happening in the moment.
SPEAKER_02 (09:29):
And I wouldn't say that's the only way your
symptoms decrease, but it has an80% success rate.
SPEAKER_00 (09:35):
I was reading about that, and it's supposed to be
one of the top ways, which ispart of cognitive behavioral
therapy, but to combat thethoughts that go with OCD.
And so each time you have aworry like that, you have to
lean into it.
SPEAKER_02 (09:53):
Exactly.
UNKNOWN (09:54):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (09:55):
And how long, let's say, if you were sitting by that
tree, when is the time that youcan step away from it?
Is it when the anxiety starts todecrease or is it having to
repeat that over and over?
I
SPEAKER_02 (10:08):
think just repeating it over and over is the goal
there.
You can even step away from itand still have the fear that the
tree or a tree in the futurewill fall on you and you're
going to die.
But leaning into that andexposing yourself to it
repeatedly, is when you'llslowly start to see your
symptoms decrease.
SPEAKER_00 (10:30):
Okay, so is that basically showing you that even
if you have the greatest fear,and it doesn't happen, that
eventually you start to learn,you know, I have this thought,
but it doesn't mean that it willhappen.
SPEAKER_02 (10:46):
Exactly.
You start to be okay with thethought in your head, and that
thought doesn't cause panic orfear anymore.
The thought might not go away.
But you're okay with thethought.
So being okay with the thoughtwill allow your brain to shift
into something else that youcare about.
SPEAKER_00 (11:04):
You were living with this for years before you got
this therapy.
What were other things that youtried to mitigate those thoughts
or help yourself with OCD?
Because a lot of people havetrial and error.
You know, what are some thingsthat didn't work?
SPEAKER_02 (11:21):
So things that didn't work was straight on
avoiding the thought.
If you try forcefully to avoidit and you have OCD, it is bound
to come back and get you.
Even in casual conversation,it'll be in the back of your
brain because you're ignoring itso hard.
Your brain is telling you, youcan't ignore this.
(11:42):
It's right here.
You've got to address it rightnow.
So that took me a while becauseI didn't understand the whole
science behind that until aprofessional explained it to me.
But you can't ignore it.
And also one thing I learned isdoing exposure response therapy,
you need to be in a kind of acalm state.
And usually what a professionalwould recommend, again, I'm not
(12:04):
a therapist, is eithermedication or exercising,
working out.
So you're in that calm statebefore you do that therapy.
Because only then you'll havethe skills to accept the thought
and lean into it.
and for it not to scare you tothat high degree that you were
(12:25):
scared before, if that makessense.
SPEAKER_00 (12:28):
So what are things that you do to get yourself in
that calm state?
Because I know there's a lot ofdifferent things you could do,
right?
You said exercise, meditation,breathing.
What is it that you do to getyourself in that state?
SPEAKER_02 (12:42):
The number one thing that goes hand in hand with my
therapy is working out,honestly.
And I probably don't work out asmuch as I should.
I do three to four times a week.
But I do cardio and strengthtraining.
And that has helped meexponentially.
Also, I realized that hangingout with friends, especially
(13:03):
during the pandemic, thatdefinitely got my mind off
things and relaxed me.
SPEAKER_00 (13:07):
Safely.
Keeping a distance.
SPEAKER_02 (13:12):
Seeing people.
Because during that time, notseeing anyone, that was when I
was going through my toughestperiod.
SPEAKER_00 (13:17):
We got married during the pandemic.
Yeah, we
SPEAKER_02 (13:20):
got married exactly a year ago.
It was our anniversary two daysago, our one year anniversary.
SPEAKER_00 (13:24):
Oh, congratulations.
That's exciting.
Thank you.
Yeah.
And like three months after iswhen a friend of ours, he told
Sean about his treatment and hehas OCD.
Right.
And that's when you startedtreatment.
So a lot of that stuffdefinitely happened.
But yeah, I think thatdemotivated us, too, because
(13:45):
normally we were part of thecommunity.
Like there's a gym we wouldalways go to and everyone knows
each other.
And that really motivated us tobe on top of our health, eat
good, work out.
And I think
SPEAKER_02 (13:57):
not having those small things, it just took a
toll.
You know, I'm sure it took atoll on everyone.
But people with underlyingmental conditions, they had it
the worst, I assume.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_00 (14:10):
I do think so.
Especially in the music industrywhere touring stopped,
everything came to a halt.
And even now, there's a lot ofpeople, you know, in music that
don't know what's going tohappen next.
But Anna, you mentioned thatSean came across a friend that
also had OCD.
(14:30):
Was that the turning point whereyou said, I want to get
professional help?
Or was it something else?
SPEAKER_02 (14:37):
Right.
So the problem was I had seen atherapist in the past, but they
didn't use exposure response.
They didn't give me homework.
So I was hesitant onprofessional help because my
experience wasn't great.
And I'm not
SPEAKER_00 (14:52):
going to lie.
They didn't say you have OCD.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (14:55):
They didn't say I
SPEAKER_00 (14:55):
have OCD.
They
SPEAKER_02 (14:57):
just thought it was anxiety.
And I saw three therapists andnone of them were using exposure
response.
And all of them were the sameway.
And I just didn't have the bestexperience with them.
So when my friend called me, hesaid, this is a totally
different thing.
This is science-based therapy.
They tell you how manytreatments you need.
It's not like you're going andyou don't know when you're going
(15:20):
to stop going.
They tell you, all right, youneed between 12 to 22 sessions.
And then you're done.
And then there's a relapseprevention program.
So it's all thought out.
And it's really organized.
It's actually the UCLA OCDclinic, and I highly recommend
for people struggling with OCDto check that out.
SPEAKER_00 (15:41):
But you know what's interesting is I think now that
we know what OCD is, we've hadother people in our life tell us
they have it, and it's crazy howcommon it actually is.
SPEAKER_02 (15:52):
So many people came out of the woodworks.
I have it too.
SPEAKER_00 (15:56):
I actually did exposure response, and that's
what helped me.
And one of our friends was doingit too back in the day.
And we thought like his thingwas so different from yours.
It was just a subsection of OCD.
SPEAKER_02 (16:09):
Starting exposure response prevention is a
challenging task because if aprofessional doesn't describe to
you how to go about it, it canbe extremely triggering and it
can exasperate your symptoms.
So again, it goes back to beingproactive and taking that first
step and understanding howimportant it is to trust a
science-based therapist, aprofessional who can get you to
(16:31):
take that first step with them.
SPEAKER_00 (16:34):
And to find a therapist that specializes in
OCD and is familiar with thesekind of therapies, because
you're right, sometimes it takestwo or three therapists to find
the right person.
But once you know what you have,you can really focus on cutting
that down by trying to find aspecialist that focuses on it.
(16:57):
Right.
Now, Anna, you said that youalso live with anxiety.
How has anxiety shown up in yourlife?
For me, it definitely comes inwaves.
And I feel like...
It gets exasperated when I'mPMSing.
There's no way of really tellingsomeone they have PMDD, but I
(17:18):
was told that I have PMDD, whichcomes during my time of PMS.
It comes with depression andanxiety at really high levels.
And it's pretty scary when itwas happening.
And then I started realizing itwas only happening during a
certain time of the month.
And I was like, okay, this isstrange.
(17:39):
But honestly, Exercising a lothas really helped me.
I do Muay Thai, so that helps mea lot, just getting all that
out.
And diet is such a big part ofit, especially for women.
Diet and exercise can change somuch, and also herbal
supplements that I take.
I did so much research on my endbecause I feel like there's very
(18:04):
little information on that.
And when you go see someone forit, like a gynecologist, they
want to run tests on you and seehow it will work.
Because it's weird because it'smental, but it's also something
that your body is going through.
What are some of the herbalsupplements you take?
And can you also tell us whatthe acronym PMDD stands for?
(18:27):
PMDD stands for premenstrualdysphoric disorder.
It's basically PMS on a verysevere level.
And for me, it's more of themood stuff that happens with PMS
versus the other stuff.
The herbal supplements that havehelped me, I found this company,
(18:47):
it's called Flow.
And they use this herb calledDong Quai.
And that mixed with a chasberryand there's like B vitamins in
there.
Honestly, when I stopped takingit for a while, I started
feeling weird again.
And then Sean would be like,hey, did you forget to take your
vitamins this month?
And I'd be like, oh my God, Itotally did.
(19:09):
And then vitamin D and fish oiland magnesium are also really
good, but that's good for mentalhealth in general.
Yeah, we're super big on ourvitamins.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_02 (19:20):
staying on top of stuff like this, like the small
things, it goes a long way andit really helps us both.
SPEAKER_00 (19:26):
Well, it's amazing if you have a deficiency with a
certain vitamin, how it couldaffect you physically and
mentally.
I did a test to see what I wasdeficient in.
I was vitamin D, it was Bvitamins, and also things that I
was allergic to.
So it does make a difference.
And I've also found that I wastriggered hormonally with my
(19:50):
depression and anxiety alsoduring hormonal changes.
In fact, that's how I startedthe podcast because I was going
through hormonal changes and ittriggered a major depression.
And there was nothing else goingon in my life.
So I knew it was somethingphysical that was happening.
But it's really important totalk about because there are
(20:11):
quite a few physical things thatcan cause you to react mentally,
you know, and affect yourbehavior.
But one thing I was reading upon OCD, And Sean, it says
there's four differentcategories in general.
Like the first one is cleaningand contamination as far as
(20:32):
symptoms go.
The second is symmetry andorder.
The third is unacceptable ortaboo thoughts.
And the fourth is doubt andharm.
Do you feel like your symptomsfell into one of those four
categories?
SPEAKER_02 (20:48):
My symptoms fell into all of those categories
because I didn't know what Ihad.
So there was such a high levelof fear in me that my symptoms
kept changing.
It would be thoughts from allover the place.
And to even add on to thosecategories, there's like a bunch
of subcategories of OCD as well.
It can go from religious,existential.
(21:08):
So yeah, I had a variety of allof those categories.
There's something called Pure O.
It's a subcategory of OCD thatis strictly obsessions without
the compulsions.
However, you can still havemental compulsions with pure O.
For example, if I was having OCDand I was having a bunch of
(21:29):
intrusive thoughts, I would tryto force myself to think of
another thought to mask out theintrusive thoughts.
And that itself is a compulsion.
But it still falls into thecategory of pure O.
I think some people...
might see me and say, he doesn'thave OCD.
He doesn't go and check thedoorknob every two seconds, or
he doesn't check if the stove ison.
(21:51):
But I don't think people are100% educated on what OCD fully
means.
And that's why they think that.
But yeah, there's a ton ofsubcategories and a ton of
thoughts that I had until Iunderstood how to lean into
those.
SPEAKER_00 (22:06):
So you talked a lot about ERP.
Were there any medications thatYou tried for OCD.
And did any of those work?
SPEAKER_02 (22:15):
I was recommended medication.
I chose not to go that route.
But honestly, to each their own.
I definitely think the mixtureof medication and therapy or
exercise and therapy works fordifferent people.
Some people might prefer themedication, which is totally
fine.
But I think Being in thatrelaxed state and then doing the
(22:38):
therapy, that's the key.
And whether medication helps youwith that or working out or
yoga, I feel like you shouldjust try those options and then
take your pick on what helps youthe most.
SPEAKER_00 (22:49):
I can totally see where if you don't even have the
motivation or support frompeople to really work on
yourself, I feel like medicationis definitely a great option to
help
SPEAKER_02 (23:00):
you
SPEAKER_00 (23:00):
get your stuff back in order.
SPEAKER_02 (23:02):
Definitely.
SPEAKER_00 (23:04):
And sometimes...
While we're trying to find oursolutions that work for us,
sometimes musicians canself-medicate.
They can try drugs or alcohol orsomething else that can have
addictive qualities.
So have you, Anna, ever donesomething like that to try and
(23:25):
soothe your anxiety?
And the same for you, Sean, withyour OCD.
I think both of us definitelydrink on occasion.
But
SPEAKER_02 (23:34):
I'll have the thought like, oh my God, I like
the feeling of being drunk.
What if I become an alcoholic?
That's an average OCD thoughtright there.
So with alcohol, it's not goodfor you in the first place.
So I just try to stay away fromit as much as possible.
SPEAKER_00 (23:50):
And I think by him doing that, it's made me not
really want to drink much.
Thankfully, we haven't had aproblem with addiction.
That's obviously...
SPEAKER_02 (24:00):
A
SPEAKER_00 (24:00):
big problem for musicians in the industry.
I
SPEAKER_02 (24:03):
have tried CBD oil for when I was having really bad
OCD.
This was before my therapy.
I thought it would just help mecalm down and totally the
opposite.
I had like a month long panicattack from one experience.
Oh
SPEAKER_00 (24:19):
my gosh.
SPEAKER_02 (24:20):
There was THC in the oil as well.
And it was a disaster.
I think I just freaked out.
That's a story for another day.
SPEAKER_00 (24:29):
You know, I wanted to get to your song, Empath.
And would either of you consideryourselves empaths?
SPEAKER_02 (24:37):
Yeah, 100%.
I think both of us.
I think that's why we wrote thesong, because we were too much
of that.
There needs to be a healthybalance of being empathetic
towards others.
Personally, I was at anunhealthy level of being
empathetic towards otherpeople's emotions.
So I wanted to learn how todistance myself from that.
SPEAKER_00 (24:55):
I feel like I'm an empath and I'm wondering from
your perspective, what do youfeel the dangers are of being an
empath?
Something my mom used to say,because she noticed that in me,
even when I was a kid, like if Isaw someone else's life, it
really got to me and I would putit on myself.
(25:16):
And she would tell me this.
It's also like a very Armenianmom thing to say.
She would say, don't, feel toosorry for others because then
they'll start feeling sorry foryou because it puts such a
weight on you, especially as akid too.
I wanted to help everyone'sproblems.
There's definitely finding thatbalance of being there for
(25:38):
someone, helping them out, butalso not letting that affect
your life and affect your healthand well-being because then you
can't be there for that personwhen you're starting to feel
sorry.
SPEAKER_02 (25:50):
And understanding that you're not always in
control, and that's okay.
And that's okay.
I think it helps you be a lowerlevel of an empath.
SPEAKER_00 (26:01):
Empaths are here to help people and to help heal
them.
But thank you so much forEmpath.
It covers the five stages ofgrief, which is denial, anger,
bargaining, depression, andacceptance.
And I'm wondering whatexperience in your own life
reminds you of going throughthose stages of grief?
(26:22):
I think a big one that hit mehard during this pandemic is my
sister got COVID and she gotreally sick.
And we weren't really thinkingit would affect her the way that
it did.
She's 40.
So she's not like in that agegroup where you think, Damn, I
(26:42):
don't know if she's going tomake it.
So thankfully, she was able tofight through it.
And she had two strokes in theprocess of that.
So now she's in recovery.
And she's walking again, whichis awesome.
But she's still working onregaining all of her mobility.
And sorry, I'm gettingemotional.
But I think for my whole familyand even like Sean, everyone
(27:06):
around us, it was hard to acceptthat for a long time.
Accepting it and helping bethere for her.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (27:15):
I love the fact that everyone was proactive and
positive around her.
I feel like that helped her inher recovery.
And...
And she's still recovering, butwe see her progress on a
month-to-month basis.
And it's staggering from myperspective, from where she was
to where she is now.
Also, we didn't touch much aboutpositive energy, but I'm a big
(27:39):
believer in that, you know,staying positive and positive
talk, not just self-talk,reciprocating that with someone
else and giving off the positivevibes.
It goes a long way for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (27:51):
Yes, it does.
And Hannah...
My heart goes out to you andyour sister.
I'm glad that she's gettingbetter.
I know that COVID really hithard with the Armenian
community.
Culturally, you would be able tospeak to this better than I
would.
Sure.
I mean, so many people we knowhad it.
(28:12):
A few people we know lostparents.
So we saw it almost everywhere.
But yeah, in our Armeniancommunity, we saw it happen.
It's just amazing.
SPEAKER_02 (28:22):
It was devastating.
It was devastating that somepeople weren't taking it as
seriously while others weretaking it so seriously.
And we're trying to convey tothem, not just the Armenian
community, just everyone aroundus.
We're trying to convey to themhow serious
SPEAKER_00 (28:37):
this thing is.
I think we were both veryserious about it.
And our families were as well.
SPEAKER_02 (28:43):
And this thing hit people differently.
Whoever had COVID, theyexperienced it differently.
And we still don't understandit.
And that was the freaky part.
SPEAKER_00 (28:54):
Yes, it's exciting to have the vaccine out as well.
She got the vaccine too.
And that was another fear I kepthaving is, okay, she's better
now, but after a few months, youknow, she can get it again.
The vaccine was definitely supergrateful for that.
My anxiety, us being vaccinated,just all of that made me feel
(29:16):
better because my fear wasalways there's, Definitely a
chance of me getting it andgetting super sick.
But being an empath, I care moreabout the people around me and
not wanting to get them sick.
I was like an anxious messduring this whole thing.
SPEAKER_02 (29:32):
And
SPEAKER_00 (29:33):
I think the vaccine just calmed me down a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (29:36):
Yeah, and we were able to do band stuff after
that.
Not doing anything with the bandfor so long was like, oh my God.
SPEAKER_00 (29:45):
All that really demotivated us.
I stopped playing drums.
I just started playing again afew months ago.
And I was like, oh my God, thisis the happiest I've been in a
year.
We
SPEAKER_02 (29:57):
just booked our first show in a year and a half.
So that feels good.
That's going to be September 4that the Troubadour.
SPEAKER_00 (30:04):
Awesome.
The vaccine has given us thatextra layer of protection and
I'm vaccinated.
We're appreciative that we havethe ability to get the vaccine
in this country, but also livemusic is starting to come back.
What are you looking forward towith touring or with music in
general?
(30:25):
So I think now being cooped inand not having those
opportunities to go out and dothings, people are going to want
to do more things.
Were you the one that was like,I'm excited to go to the DMV or
SPEAKER_02 (30:39):
something?
Yeah, just going anywhere,seeing a human face-to-face, it
feels nice.
Humans need that.
SPEAKER_00 (30:47):
And I got to hug my niece for the first time in a
year and a half, and it justfelt so good.
And just to see people smilingfaces behind the mask, it I know
those little things, we just nowappreciate them so much more.
And one thing that you've done,which I really appreciate, is
you've donated part of theproceeds for t-shirts to
(31:07):
different nonprofits like NAMI.
And I think you had another one.
SPEAKER_02 (31:12):
For Antibody, for those shirts, when we released
that, we donated to ArmeniaFund.
Since Armenia was going througha very serious war at the time,
and it was November of 2020.
And now for Empath, we'll bedonating 15% of the Empath
t-shirt design, the t-shirtsitself to NAMI.
SPEAKER_00 (31:33):
Oh, very good.
The Check Your Head podcast isnow partnered with Sweet Relief
Musicians Fund, which is a 501c3nonprofit.
And maybe in the future, you cando a benefit show or something.
Oh, we
SPEAKER_02 (31:47):
would love that.
We would definitely love to dothat for
SPEAKER_00 (31:50):
sure.
Yeah, that would be amazing.
You know, I have one morequestion because I think it's
important for people to know howyour life has changed after
you've gone through therapy andafter you've gotten your OCD and
your anxiety at a low level.
SPEAKER_02 (32:07):
Definitely more of a clear head on a day to day.
You know, that doesn't mean Idon't have OCD.
I'm at a lower level of OCD.
I still have the symptoms.
And when I get stressed out, itdefinitely gets exasperated.
But leaning into it, when thethought comes, that's the key.
And that can help you do whatyou want to do on a day to day
without getting annoyed by theselingering thoughts.
(32:29):
So taking the first step to seeprofessional help is important.
It has potential to change yourlife.
And I'm not exaggerating.
I urge anyone listening to do soif they're struggling.
SPEAKER_00 (32:41):
Next, we have an expert who suffered with severe
obsessive compulsive disorderbefore finding the therapy that
saved his life.
OCD expert and advocate ChrisTronson will share his knowledge
of OCD and the therapy that hasan overwhelming success rate for
this disorder.
(33:01):
Chris is a registered marriageand family therapist and now
speaks nationwide on OCD.
Now let's hear Chris Tronsonshare his solutions.
I read your story, which firstof all is an incredible story,
but one thing that really struckme was that it took a long time
(33:23):
before you got diagnosed andthere's also misconceptions
about OCD.
What do you think is thegreatest misconception about
this condition?
SPEAKER_01 (33:33):
We know based on evidence that the average person
who receives treatment forobsessive compulsive disorder,
it took them about 14 to 17years after their first symptom
to get help.
That's a long time of strugglingwith this disorder.
And like that statistic, I too,I mean, when I started showing
symptoms as a child, I didn'treceive treatment till my early
(33:53):
20s.
So it took me many years likemost people.
And I do believe that themisconceptions of OCD is the
reason why it took me so long.
Some of the main things I hearis that it's a personality
quirk.
It's something people wish theyhad because they'd keep their
house clean.
Oh, all people with OCD rightnow must be loving the pandemic
because they get to wipe thingsdown.
So I think the misconception isit's all around contamination
(34:16):
and germs.
Maybe the second category peopleknow is checking things like the
stove or leaving the iron on andliking to organize the desk.
But the biggest misconception isthat people enjoy doing these
things.
It's not keeping your handsclean.
It's literally taking hours uponhours of showers, cleaning your
house, bleaching things, notseeing other people or letting
(34:37):
other people into your space.
But there's also all thesedifferent subtypes of OCD,
including taboo, intrusive harm,sexual deviant thoughts that
people don't want.
So there's such a larger worldof obsessive compulsive disorder
that people just don't knowabout.
And I believe that's a bigcontributing factor to why it
takes people so many years tolearn that they not only have
(34:58):
it, but to also get the properdiagnosis and then eventually
get the proper treatment.
SPEAKER_00 (35:03):
Well, the other thing is that, like with your
story, you actually suffered somuch that you almost lost your
life to it.
So it's not just this quirkycondition, but it's something
where people really suffer.
And they can not even leavetheir house because of all the
time that it takes to try andquell these fears.
(35:25):
But Let's start first with whatare some of the symptoms of OCD?
SPEAKER_01 (35:30):
So the main criteria of having OCD is the O stands
for obsession.
So that's where people arehaving intrusive thoughts,
intrusive feelings, urges,images.
There's something that's cominginto their life, mainly through
thoughts.
It can be feelings, sensationsthat are absolutely unwanted and
intrusive.
And because that person has suchan unpleasant experience with
(35:52):
those worries and fears, they dosome kind of physical or mental
act to try to make thosethoughts or feelings go away.
For instance, somebody who has afear that they may have hit
somebody with their car, whichis known as hit and run OCD.
Somebody may be driving aroundthe block multiple times or
checking their car for anydamage with the fear that they
potentially hurt someone.
(36:12):
With mental acts, people may tryto distract themselves or push
away thoughts or replace a badthought with a good thought or a
bad image with a good image.
So once somebody has thoseobsessions and responds with a
compulsion, it becomes cyclical.
thoughts, they do thosecompulsions, they get temporary
relief, but unfortunatelythey've reinforced that this
(36:34):
issue is a problem and they findthemselves not being able to get
out of that cycle.
Then the D in OCD stands fordisorder.
So that means that people arespending more than an hour a day
on this disorder.
Often when somebody's severe, itcan be greater than eight hours
a day.
In my own story, I was spending16 hours a day.
That's why I didn't leave thehouse for three years of my life
(36:55):
is because you're spending 16hours a day consumed with these
behaviors, both mental andphysical.
Now, when it comes to subtypes,that's what makes OCD hard to
identify is because the subtypespeople aren't hearing about.
We know contamination.
So that's going to be the fearof germs, illness, sickness,
since people go into greatlengths to keep themselves safe.
(37:16):
So that might be...
lengthy showers, repeatedshowers, hand washing, cleaning,
wiping items down.
We also have checking.
So that can be where somebodyhas a fear that they've left a
stove on or they've left theircar running in the garage and
they go to check it to makesure.
And then we have symmetry wherepeople have to keep things
organized or in line.
(37:37):
But those are sort of the onespeople already know about.
So now we jump into harmosity.
That's where somebody has thefear that they may hurt another
person or hurt themselves.
Now, when people hear that,People sometimes get scared.
Wait, there's people out therethat have these harm urges and
thoughts.
But the difference is somebodywith OCD is so disturbed by
those thoughts that they spendhours and hours a day to try to
(37:59):
get rid of those thoughts, ridof those feelings.
People will go to great lengthsto remove all the knives from
their house.
They might not have childrenbecause they're afraid that they
might accidentally harm theirchild.
Or they're repeatedly checkingthemselves into a hospital
because they fear that they'regoing to intentionally or
accidentally harm themselves.
We have scrupulosity.
that's centered around religion.
(38:20):
So people have the fear of goingto hell or doing something in
sin.
We also have sexual intrusivethoughts where somebody has
thoughts or images around havingsex with a minor or with a
family member or with a pet.
And once again, people may hearthat and think, wow, that person
must be disturbed.
But once again, these people aregood people who have great
(38:40):
hearts.
But the problem is they'rehaving these opposite kind of
fears and actions And it makesthe person so uncomfortable that
they try to push it away.
There's even a relationship OCDwhere the person consistently
questions, is this relationshipsomething they want to be in?
It has somebody who's madly inlove with their wife question
the relationship even as they'rewalking down the aisle.
(39:00):
We have what's called magicalthinking.
And that's where people feel anurge to perform an act in order
to prevent something bad fromhappening.
For instance, for my own story,I felt like I had to wake up
every day at 9.45, if I woke upbefore or after I felt something
bad would happen to my mom.
Now hearing that doesn't make alot of sense We have sexual
(39:22):
orientation OCD, where somebodywho's heterosexual and happy in
a relationship is gettingintrusive thoughts that they may
potentially be interested insomeone of the same sex.
And with all these subtypes,it's absolutely the opposite of
what that individual wants.
And so they're fightingconstantly in their own head,
their own body.
So there's all these differentpainful subtypes that
(39:42):
individuals struggle with.
And that's why there's so manypeople going untreated and
undiagnosed, because most of thetime people don't know that any
of these other subtypes exist.
SPEAKER_00 (39:53):
OCD sounds really individualized as far as the
fears and the thoughts that aregoing through your head.
And I know when I was in a verybad depression and anxiety
period that I had thoughts thatI would not normally think of.
And these thoughts scared me.
So all of these thingslogically, you know, are not
(40:14):
going to happen, but they feelvery real when you're in it.
SPEAKER_01 (40:19):
Absolutely.
And when we've looked at scans,when somebody's going through
intrusive thoughts, the brain islit up.
I mean, all the centers,especially that frontal cortex,
where our fear center lies,those things are lit up.
So even if this person isn't indanger, their brain is lighting
up.
And it's not just the brain,it's the body.
You know, people start to noticethat they feel physiological
symptoms, their throat isgetting dry, their heart's
(40:41):
pounding fast, their blood isbeing pumped, the cortisol
levels are going up.
So even if that personrationally knows that nothing is
wrong, their body and theirbrain is kind of going off, even
though nothing's wrong.
So the person feels inclined toget back to that safety zone.
And as somebody who's livedthrough it, now, after
treatment, I can look back andsay, why was I afraid of all
those things happening?
(41:02):
They never did.
But in the moment, if you wouldhave talked to me, I literally
felt as life or death multiplehours a day.
SPEAKER_00 (41:08):
Right.
And then all of that cortisoland adrenaline that's going
through your body, for all thattime is really bad for your
body, right?
Just the chemicals thatshouldn't be there are there,
and it totally wears down onyour body and your mind.
SPEAKER_01 (41:26):
Correct.
I mean, this is supposed to betemporary.
What somebody with OCD goesthrough, which makes it such a
unique disorder, is the personisn't going through a temporary
once-a-week moment of panic.
This individual could be goingthrough stressful situations
temporarily 10 times an hour,like when I was at my most
severe, 16 hours a day, I wasgoing up and down, fight or
(41:46):
flight.
Your body isn't meant to havethat happen.
And it's draining.
It burns you out.
It makes you exhausted.
that wears on your immunesystem.
You're not supposed to havecortisol and adrenaline and
norepinephrine, et cetera,pumping all day throughout.
And so that's why people getvery weak and sick when they're
going through years and years ofstress.
And if it goes untreated for avery long time, like if I see a
(42:08):
client who's in their 60s, 70s,80s, they're having health
issues that is strictly from theuntreated obsessive compulsive
disorder and the stress andhavoc it puts on someone's body.
SPEAKER_00 (42:20):
Do you find that OCD runs in families or is there
specific causes for OCD?
SPEAKER_01 (42:27):
OCD definitely falls more on the genetic ends.
So often with my clients, peoplein their families have shown
signs and symptoms of OCD.
I know in my own family, my dadhas showed health OCD.
My grandfather was a hoarder,which hoarding disorder falls
under OCD and depression in myfamily, anxiety as well.
So it's not abnormal at all.
You know, there can sometimes bean environmental factor.
(42:49):
So we noticed that some people,their OCD may have been mild or
unnoticed, and then they have adeath in the family or a really
tragic event.
And it's like the floodgatesbroke down and now everything
comes to a head.
But all of the research is inagreement that it's not that it
caused them to develop the OCD.
It's just that the OCD becamemore prominent once the loss of
(43:09):
control and the difficult timehappened.
But it's definitely genetic andpassed down generation to
generation, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_00 (43:17):
Okay.
Well, I think that's importantto note because sometimes when
people have mood disorders, theyblame themselves or they feel
like, you know, I did this or,you know, what's wrong with me.
And oftentimes it could besomething that is part of our
DNA.
Now, one thing that Sean talkedabout was exposure and response
(43:38):
therapy, and it stands for ERP.
Can you tell me about that?
And is that the main thing?
type of therapy that's used forOCD?
SPEAKER_01 (43:48):
So yes, ERP, which is exposure response prevention
therapy.
The type of therapy isabsolutely the gold standard.
therapy for OCD.
And what gold standard means isit's evidence-based, it's been
researched, it's scientific,it's been shown through studies
for many years now since the70s, proven to be the gold
standard treatment for OCD.
(44:08):
So what I always tell peoplewhen they're looking for
treatment is you have to makesure your therapist not only
does ERP but knows it well.
But like many people,unfortunately the first
therapist we see often don'tknow ERP and we go to talk
therapy or some other type oftreatment and it doesn't change
behavior through talk And that'swhat makes ERP different.
It's a very behavioraltreatment.
(44:30):
The E stands for exposure.
So it's putting yourself in astressful situation.
Response prevention comes in allthose physical and mental
compulsions we talked about,we're asking to reduce and then
eliminate them.
So for my own treatment, forinstance, I lived with my
grandma, my younger sister, andI would get a lot of intrusive
thoughts about harming them.
And I love them.
(44:51):
I mean, they were my favoritepeople in the world.
And I know the reason I wouldget thoughts about them is
because they were very fragile.
You know, my little sister wasvery young, my grandma's very
old.
And so before treatment, I wouldjust avoid them.
I was so worried about hurtingthem that I'd only be in the
room with them if other peoplewere there, or I'd avoid them
altogether.
And I used to cry myself tosleep because I wanted to spend
time with them, but I was soafraid based off the urges.
(45:14):
So once I got treatment tofinally find a specialist in
ERP, So the exposure for me wasto spend time alone with my
grandmother, spend time alonewith my younger sister.
Now, the feelings would get veryloud because I was around them.
You know, oh, this is going tobe it.
You're going to harm them.
And we think that we shouldreassure ourselves or talk back
(45:36):
to the OCD or calm ourselvesdown and say, no, I'd never do
that.
But the problem is thereassurance just made it louder.
The more I try to push it away,the more I resist, the more it
persists.
So instead, you have to justtolerate and sort of accept it
up.
Maybe I will.
Let's see.
Why sitting with my grandma ifthe thought came up, I let it
sit there.
When the urge came up, I waslike, yeah, let's see.
(45:56):
Well, of course, what startedhappening is nothing happened,
never harmed them.
In fact, I started to spend moretime with them.
And over time, the thoughts andthe feelings subsided, and I was
able to hang out with themwithout any stress.
So exposure response preventionis challenging, has somebody
face their fears, and live withuncertainty that those fears can
happen.
But by putting yourself in thatand proving it, That's what
(46:19):
changes behavior.
And ultimately, we want peopleto live a life.
We want people to spend timewith their grandma and their
sister.
We want people to travel.
We want people to go back tochurch or whatever they're
avoiding because of the OCD.
I
SPEAKER_00 (46:31):
think it's really important that You bring up that
you don't try to quiet yourfears because I know in other
types of CBT, you try to replacethe thought with something else.
But in this case, you kind oflean into your fear.
And the more you do your fear,the more you're able to see that
(46:52):
no harm is being done.
And that quells the anxiety.
Is that true?
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (46:57):
Absolutely.
I mean, I want to first say thatCBT is an amazing type of
treatment.
It's absolutely wonderful.
I've been trained in it and it'sincredible for other disorders.
That's what makes OCD so uniqueis ERP is actually a type of
CBT.
The difference is just what yousaid.
I mean, if somebody's dealingwith traditional generalized
anxiety disorder, they're goingto replace or challenge some of
(47:19):
those absolutely distortedthoughts.
But in OCD, those thoughts arecoming at you a mile a minute.
So if you were to sit there andtry to replace a bad thought,
you're going to get a new badthought five minutes later.
And pretty soon, you're spending16 hours a day chasing these
thoughts around.
So we actually lean into it.
We actually learn that no dangeroccurs.
(47:39):
And we teach ourselves that ourbrain, unfortunately, put
something in the dangerouscategory that we can move over
to the safe category and that'swhy somebody who used to be
afraid of driving or going tochurch or being around children
or whatever their fear is aroundas soon as they learn that
nothing bad will happen theyrelax they get more comfortable
and pretty soon they can go backto the activity that was taken
(48:01):
away but yes the learninghappens and that's why people if
they do treatment right don'thave a relapse five days later
it's because learning occurredyour brain has neuroplasticity
and the ability to changebecause of learning.
And in my own case, all thethings that I had feared, I
conquered.
I overcame.
I went back to being aroundpeople, my family, and I had
learned so much from thetreatment that old things that
(48:23):
freaked me out, like becomehousebound, attempt suicide, be
at the lowest point in my life.
My life was no longer like thatafter the treatment.
It really, really works.
It's an extremely effectivetreatment.
SPEAKER_00 (48:34):
You know, Sean did a lot of research on his OCD, and
he said that ERP actually hasabout an 80% success rate.
Would you say that's true?
SPEAKER_01 (48:45):
Yeah, it has extremely high success rate.
There was a meta-analysis of abunch of studies from different
research that showed that it canbe 76% to 86% effective.
SPEAKER_00 (48:57):
Can you tell me about your life now and how
different it is compared to whenyou were at your lowest point
with OCD?
SPEAKER_01 (49:04):
Absolutely.
I mean, my lowest point was bad.
I spent about three years in myhouse.
I didn't leave.
I was living alone with aroommate.
And so I was burning my savings,wasn't working.
I'd leave my house Sundays to a24-hour grocery store to buy
enough supplies for the week,disconnected with my family, my
friends.
I mean, I went from being anathlete and passionate about
(49:25):
music and life and just beingreally happy to completely a
shell of myself.
I was housebound, attemptedsuicide, was hospitalized, and
everything fell apart for me.
But after the treatment ofgetting my life back, I started
to pursue my passion.
So I've come full circle.
I loved so much becoming anadvocate.
That was my first stop on myrecovery journey.
(49:45):
And I was able to speak todifferent hospitals and I was
on, you know, national TV shows.
And I loved that.
But everybody would reach outand be like, your story is so
inspirational.
Help me.
And I'm like, but I can't.
I'm not a therapist.
And I felt something wasmissing.
So I started going back toschool and eventually was able
to become a therapist.
So now I treat OCD and relateddisorders.
(50:06):
But I've just really beendedicating my life to making
sure that people don't suffer aslong as I did and get that
treatment a lot sooner.
I have a great relationship withfamily now and friends and date.
I mean, the pandemic hasn't beengreat.
But other than that, justreally, really living a full
life.
And that's what I want everybodyto know is that OCD can
absolutely take you to yourlowest point.
(50:27):
But with treatment, you can getyour life back.
And not only that, you learn toappreciate life more after
you've stared death in the faceor at least your hardest times.
You become a more compassionate,understanding, and just loving
life.
And so I...
Can't pretend I'm happy all thetime, but definitely excited
about the work I do, but alsothe person I've become and the
(50:48):
life I've created.
SPEAKER_00 (50:49):
Well, I think that's really the important point is
that once you go throughsomething really difficult, I
mean, like mental healthjourneys, getting to the other
side, there really is abeautiful life because you have
the appreciation.
You know, everything really doesseem brighter.
You know, I'm going to shift alittle with this question
(51:10):
because Anna also talked aboutanxiety and she talked about how
her hormones triggered a mooddisorder.
And that actually happened withme as well.
And I didn't realize that myhormones were actually causing
me to go into a depression andanxiety.
So can you explain how hormonesand mental health are sort of
(51:34):
tied?
SPEAKER_01 (51:36):
Absolutely.
I mostly feel compassionate forwomen because there's a lot of
shift with depression andanxiety sometimes around
someone's period.
I mean, a lot of women will saythat the OCD or the anxiety or
the depression is worse.
There's a lot of women thatreally struggle through
menopause as they have that hugehormonal shift.
Another big one is withpregnancy.
(51:57):
We see people with postpartum,it could be depression, it could
be anxiety or OCD.
Also, we see a lot of people'smental health disorders come
out.
So we see that 13 to 18 year oldrange really shift, or we can
see it from that 18 to 21 yearold age shift as people are
ending puberty.
So hormones has a huge part todeal with these mental health
(52:19):
disorders.
So for PMDD, a lot of women canhave that as well, where each
month around the time of theirperiod, it's not the same for
them as it is for other people.
They go into a really heightenedanxiety state or depression, or
they have a lot of differentimpacts.
I've worked with clients, forinstance, with anxiety or OCD or
depression.
They've gone their whole lifeokay, and then they get
(52:41):
pregnant.
And right after the child isborn, their mental health
completely deteriorates and theystart going into a deep
depression, maybe havingsuicidal intrusive thoughts or
harm thoughts around the childor finding themselves so anxious
or unable to get out of bed.
I worked with a woman who neverhad children, but when she went
through menopause, the OCD gotto the point she couldn't
function and had to quit herjob.
(53:02):
So during those period of timeswhen people's mental health
disorders first show up orpotentially come out, what I
find that when they're treatingthe hormones, with a medical
doctor, that can help a lot.
And I usually do encourage that.
If somebody notices thathormones is playing a huge part
in their mental health, that isalways what I first recommend is
(53:22):
that although ERP andmedication, if somebody needs to
take it, is super important,this has to be treated
holistically.
So we have to make sure thatwe're seeing a doctor that can
work with that.
So what I usually suggest forclients is a full medical workup
to see if hormones plays a roleand there's different things
that people can take.
Sometimes women will get onbirth control even if they don't
(53:44):
need it for other reasons andthat can help.
Sometimes there's things withthyroid that can impact.
So we just have to make surethat we're also treating that as
well if that's having an impacton mental health.
SPEAKER_00 (53:55):
Well, that's actually what happened with me
is that I took a really bad turnduring menopause.
And since then, I've had to goon a hormone schedule and also
take some thyroid medication.
And it's been a huge change.
There was nothing going on in mylife that would have triggered
that.
besides the fact that I wasgoing through menopause.
(54:18):
So that's why it was also reallyconfusing to me.
And doctors don't really talkabout this.
So I'm really glad you broughtup doing a full medical panel,
because oftentimes it can besomething physical that is going
on that can cause a mooddisorder.
SPEAKER_01 (54:33):
Absolutely.
And I'm so glad that you'reopening up about your own story.
I mean, I think this is the onlyway things get out there is when
individuals who have livedthrough it open up to the public
and say, hey, this is somethingthat's happening because there
isn't a lot of people talkingabout it.
So I always tell people, let'streat the whole person and make
sure that we're not missing anycomponents.
SPEAKER_00 (54:55):
Is there anything else that you would like to say
about OCD or mental health?
SPEAKER_01 (55:00):
So if you have a mental health disorder, I just
hope you know that there is sucha vast community out there,
including this amazing podcastof people that definitely get
it.
If you don't feel supported bysociety, we're all here to
support you.
And if you're somebody thatdoesn't have a mental health
disorder and are hearing this,and maybe it's a family member,
a friend or somebody else inyour life, the biggest thing
that they want is not pity.
(55:20):
They just want understanding andsupport.
So I always say that my favoriteday in the world will be one day
when we know that mental healthdisorders are treated with the
same dignity, respect andurgency as physical health
disorders.
That would be the day I feltlike my mission was finally met.
So that's what I hope.
And that's why I do this.
And that's why I love stuff likewhat you're doing.
And I'm so happy that people inthe music industry have a home,
(55:43):
you know, a place where they canfeel confident about getting
support and realizing that it'snot something to be embarrassed
by.
It's something that you're doingfor your own well-being and
support.
A
SPEAKER_00 (55:53):
big thank you to our musical guests, Sean Sulejian
and Anna Gavorkian of SatelliteCity.
and a mental health expert,Chris Tronson.
For more information onSatellite City, visit
SatelliteCity.com and followthem on their socials, at
Satellite City.
Stay tuned for a clip ofSatellite City's single, Empath,
(56:14):
from their debut album, FearTactics, which will drop on
September 3, 2021.
And join us for their albumrelease and benefit show for
mental health at the Troubadourin Los Angeles on September 4th.
To buy tickets, visittroubadour.com.
For more information on ChrisTronson, visit gatewayocd.com to
(56:37):
reach the Gateway Institute inCosta Mesa, California.
And follow Chris on his socialsat Chris Tronson.
Follow the Check Your Headpodcast on our socials at
CheckYourHeadPodcast and visitCheckYourHeadPodcast.com to find
more than 125 mental healthsolutions for recovery.
So until next time, be brave,ask for help, and be persistent
(57:01):
in finding the mental help thatyou
SPEAKER_01 (57:16):
need.
SPEAKER_00 (57:29):
Check Your Head Podcast is kindly supported and
partnered with Sweet ReliefMusicians Fund, DBSA San Gabriel
Valley, Earshot Media, and LemonTree Studios in Los Angeles.
Visit checkyourheadpodcast.comwhere we have over 100 solutions
for mental health.
Be our friends on social mediaat Check Your Head Podcast.
(57:50):
Watch us on YouTube and supportus with a kind donation on
checkyourheadpodcast.com.
Check Your Head podcast issponsored by a 501c3 nonprofit
with all donations being taxdeductible.
Thank you for your support andthank you for listening.
Welcome to the Check Your Head podcast, the podcast
where notable musicians andexperts share their stories and
solutions for mental health andwellness.
I'm your host, Mari Fong, amusic journalist and life coach
for musicians, and today I'mstarting with some exciting
(00:21):
news.
The Check Your Head podcast hasbeen nominated for a People's
Choice Award for the 2021 MusicPodcast Awards, a very
prestigious honor, so a hugethank you to all of our loyal
listeners.
It really feels good to knowthat you enjoy the podcast as we
also create some positive changeas well.
(00:41):
Now for today's featured guests.
This married rock duo is made upof vocalist and drummer Anna
Kevorkian and her husband,guitarist Shant Suleyhan, who
write rock music with a purpose,to speak out on issues such as
the conflict in Armenia withtheir song Antibody, and songs
like Empath that encourageothers with their mental health,
(01:03):
both songs off their upcomingdebut album, Fear Tactics.
You'll also hear a clip of theirsingle Empath later in our
episode.
Satellite City's album releaseshow will be at the Troubadour
this Saturday, September 4th,2021 in Los Angeles, which will
also benefit mental health formusicians, with the band kindly
(01:24):
donating a portion of theirticket sales to Sweet Relief
Musicians Fund and the CheckYour Head podcast.
So come enjoy the show with ussafely, and when you buy two
tickets to the show attroubadour.com, bring your
ticket receipt to the merchbooth for a free Satellite City
t-shirt.
Sean and Anna of Satellite Citywill share their solutions for
(01:46):
living with two different typesof anxiety.
Sean with obsessive compulsivedisorder, or OCD, and Anna with
premenstrual dysphoric disorder,or PMDD.
Next, I'll interview OCD expertand therapist, Chris Tronson,
who not only treats OCDpatients, but also had severe
(02:07):
OCD before finally finding thetherapy that literally saved his
life.
Now Chris is an advocate andnational speaker for OCD and
leader at OCD SouthernCalifornia, an affiliate of the
International OCD Foundation.
But first, let's hear Anna andSean of Satellite City share
(02:27):
their story.
SPEAKER_02 (02:27):
Empath, which was our most recent single, I felt
that song tied the whole recordtogether, and lyrically that was
focused the most on mentalhealth, so...
Yeah, I kind of just wanted asimilar theme for the album
title as well.
SPEAKER_00 (02:45):
Yeah, I really love the lyrics.
In fact, you have a lyric in thechorus that says, there's
nothing left to do but break thewall off your fence.
Open yourself to the truth.
Don't throw away all of you.
I was wondering if you canexplain the message behind those
lyrics.
SPEAKER_02 (03:03):
Basically, it's better to express what you're
going through because if youkeep it in, that kind of eats
away at you little by little.
And whether it's talking tofamily, friends, or getting
professional help, I thinktalking about it is the first
step so it doesn't eat you upevery day.
And that would be throwing awayall of you because you're
(03:25):
keeping it in so much.
And eventually, it's going totake a toll on you.
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
It's like embracing...
all the things that you feelinsecure about or that are
weighing you down and just beinghonest with yourself and
overcoming that by talking aboutit, by getting help and stop
putting up a defense like thewalls.
Just be open with yourself anddon't give up on yourself.
(03:52):
That's probably the main messagethere.
SPEAKER_02 (03:55):
That was our message for that song.
Taking the first step and beingproactive is essential.
SPEAKER_00 (04:02):
Yeah, it takes a lot of bravery to really speak out.
But one thing I really liked isyou said, don't throw away all
of you.
And I do think that sometimes,whether it's a musician or
someone we know, they may bestruggling with something that
they don't understand.
And instead of going for help orgoing through all the steps that
(04:23):
take work, they may end uphurting themselves, losing their
life because they're They wantto throw away all of themselves.
So I think it's a reallyimportant lyric.
Thank you.
But I was reading, Sean, thatyou were diagnosed with OCD,
which is obsessive compulsivedisorder.
(04:43):
Can you tell me when you firststarted noticing the symptoms?
SPEAKER_02 (04:47):
Yeah, I can tell you exactly when I first started
noticing.
It was September and it was fiveyears ago, September.
Yeah, I just didn't understandfor a very long time what was
happening.
And OCD is something that isdifferent for everyone.
What the average person mightknow of OCD is germaphobic, but
(05:09):
there's so much more to thatcondition.
OCD can be repeating images,repeating phrases in your mind,
or it could be repeatingcompulsions that have nothing to
do with images or phrases.
And for me, it started withimages in my mind.
And I didn't understand what wasgoing on.
My heart was racing all thetime.
(05:30):
I thought it was just anxiety.
I just had no concept of what itwas.
And it took me quite some time.
Actually, last year was thefirst time I saw a therapist
that used science-based therapyto diagnose me and to help treat
my OCD.
(05:50):
So yeah, it took me four years,four years to figure that out.
Because of a plethora ofreasons, number one, being
Armenian, in my culture, youdon't talk much about mental
health.
You just get the whole toughlove and kind of...
brush off your shoulders and getup and try to figure it out
(06:11):
yourself.
And that doesn't work witheveryone.
It really doesn't.
My family was supportive.
I'm not gonna lie, my parentsdefinitely wanted to help me,
but coming from their ownbackground, they didn't know
much about mental health either.
So it was hard for them to showthe kind of support that I
needed because they didn't wantme to go ahead and rush off to a
(06:34):
therapist because to them itmight have showed weakness.
But eventually, I decided Ineeded to see one because the
pandemic and quarantine was thelast straw.
And I did.
And since then, I've definitelyhad an upward slope.
SPEAKER_00 (06:52):
Now, you're both married to each other.
And Anna, I'm wondering, how didthe OCD symptoms affect your
relationship?
We didn't really know what itwas.
And we just thought...
It was just a really heightenedform of anxiety.
And he's actually really awesomewhere it didn't affect our
(07:13):
relationship in a negative way.
But also, he keeps things in alot.
So I had to really pullinformation out of him and
figure out what was going on andour generation growing up with
the internet we alwaysresearched oh why does my left
arm feel weird when I lie downthis way or something like that
(07:34):
so he was doing research and hestumbled upon the OCD thing and
I think that's when I startedresearching too and we both got
super into it and then he had toteach me how the treatment that
he's he did which was exposureresponse like how I would Be
supportive of that.
So if he was dealing withsomething, I know how to respond
(07:57):
to it because for OCD, it'sdifferent.
Like positive thinking andreinforcing things and making
myself feel more calm helps me.
But for OCD, you're actuallysupposed to really lean into
that fear that you're having.
and expose yourself to it.
So I had to learn how to respondto him when he was dealing with
(08:20):
something.
Instead of making him feelbetter, I had to respond in the
correct way, have him deal withthe problem then and there
because definitely putting abandaid over something like that
does not work.
SPEAKER_02 (08:35):
Exposure response prevention is the main therapy
that I have undergone And themain thing that has helped me
tremendously, just an examplefor listeners who don't know
what that is.
For example, let's say I'll behanging out in a park and I am
(08:55):
having this fear that this treeis like wobbling and it's going
to fall on me.
I'm going to have to sit by thattree and tell myself this tree
is going to fall on me.
It's going to crush me.
I'm going to die.
And I have to sit there in mydiscomfort and wallow in this
discomfort and just repeat thatto myself that this tree is
(09:15):
going to fall on me.
I'm going to die and be okaywith that.
And that's the only way thesymptoms of OCD start to
decrease.
SPEAKER_00 (09:23):
Really?
So it's like accepting yourgreatest fear.
What's happening in the moment.
SPEAKER_02 (09:29):
And I wouldn't say that's the only way your
symptoms decrease, but it has an80% success rate.
SPEAKER_00 (09:35):
I was reading about that, and it's supposed to be
one of the top ways, which ispart of cognitive behavioral
therapy, but to combat thethoughts that go with OCD.
And so each time you have aworry like that, you have to
lean into it.
SPEAKER_02 (09:53):
Exactly.
UNKNOWN (09:54):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (09:55):
And how long, let's say, if you were sitting by that
tree, when is the time that youcan step away from it?
Is it when the anxiety starts todecrease or is it having to
repeat that over and over?
I
SPEAKER_02 (10:08):
think just repeating it over and over is the goal
there.
You can even step away from itand still have the fear that the
tree or a tree in the futurewill fall on you and you're
going to die.
But leaning into that andexposing yourself to it
repeatedly, is when you'llslowly start to see your
symptoms decrease.
SPEAKER_00 (10:30):
Okay, so is that basically showing you that even
if you have the greatest fear,and it doesn't happen, that
eventually you start to learn,you know, I have this thought,
but it doesn't mean that it willhappen.
SPEAKER_02 (10:46):
Exactly.
You start to be okay with thethought in your head, and that
thought doesn't cause panic orfear anymore.
The thought might not go away.
But you're okay with thethought.
So being okay with the thoughtwill allow your brain to shift
into something else that youcare about.
SPEAKER_00 (11:04):
You were living with this for years before you got
this therapy.
What were other things that youtried to mitigate those thoughts
or help yourself with OCD?
Because a lot of people havetrial and error.
You know, what are some thingsthat didn't work?
SPEAKER_02 (11:21):
So things that didn't work was straight on
avoiding the thought.
If you try forcefully to avoidit and you have OCD, it is bound
to come back and get you.
Even in casual conversation,it'll be in the back of your
brain because you're ignoring itso hard.
Your brain is telling you, youcan't ignore this.
(11:42):
It's right here.
You've got to address it rightnow.
So that took me a while becauseI didn't understand the whole
science behind that until aprofessional explained it to me.
But you can't ignore it.
And also one thing I learned isdoing exposure response therapy,
you need to be in a kind of acalm state.
And usually what a professionalwould recommend, again, I'm not
(12:04):
a therapist, is eithermedication or exercising,
working out.
So you're in that calm statebefore you do that therapy.
Because only then you'll havethe skills to accept the thought
and lean into it.
and for it not to scare you tothat high degree that you were
(12:25):
scared before, if that makessense.
SPEAKER_00 (12:28):
So what are things that you do to get yourself in
that calm state?
Because I know there's a lot ofdifferent things you could do,
right?
You said exercise, meditation,breathing.
What is it that you do to getyourself in that state?
SPEAKER_02 (12:42):
The number one thing that goes hand in hand with my
therapy is working out,honestly.
And I probably don't work out asmuch as I should.
I do three to four times a week.
But I do cardio and strengthtraining.
And that has helped meexponentially.
Also, I realized that hangingout with friends, especially
(13:03):
during the pandemic, thatdefinitely got my mind off
things and relaxed me.
SPEAKER_00 (13:07):
Safely.
Keeping a distance.
SPEAKER_02 (13:12):
Seeing people.
Because during that time, notseeing anyone, that was when I
was going through my toughestperiod.
SPEAKER_00 (13:17):
We got married during the pandemic.
Yeah, we
SPEAKER_02 (13:20):
got married exactly a year ago.
It was our anniversary two daysago, our one year anniversary.
SPEAKER_00 (13:24):
Oh, congratulations.
That's exciting.
Thank you.
Yeah.
And like three months after iswhen a friend of ours, he told
Sean about his treatment and hehas OCD.
Right.
And that's when you startedtreatment.
So a lot of that stuffdefinitely happened.
But yeah, I think thatdemotivated us, too, because
(13:45):
normally we were part of thecommunity.
Like there's a gym we wouldalways go to and everyone knows
each other.
And that really motivated us tobe on top of our health, eat
good, work out.
And I think
SPEAKER_02 (13:57):
not having those small things, it just took a
toll.
You know, I'm sure it took atoll on everyone.
But people with underlyingmental conditions, they had it
the worst, I assume.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_00 (14:10):
I do think so.
Especially in the music industrywhere touring stopped,
everything came to a halt.
And even now, there's a lot ofpeople, you know, in music that
don't know what's going tohappen next.
But Anna, you mentioned thatSean came across a friend that
also had OCD.
(14:30):
Was that the turning point whereyou said, I want to get
professional help?
Or was it something else?
SPEAKER_02 (14:37):
Right.
So the problem was I had seen atherapist in the past, but they
didn't use exposure response.
They didn't give me homework.
So I was hesitant onprofessional help because my
experience wasn't great.
And I'm not
SPEAKER_00 (14:52):
going to lie.
They didn't say you have OCD.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (14:55):
They didn't say I
SPEAKER_00 (14:55):
have OCD.
They
SPEAKER_02 (14:57):
just thought it was anxiety.
And I saw three therapists andnone of them were using exposure
response.
And all of them were the sameway.
And I just didn't have the bestexperience with them.
So when my friend called me, hesaid, this is a totally
different thing.
This is science-based therapy.
They tell you how manytreatments you need.
It's not like you're going andyou don't know when you're going
(15:20):
to stop going.
They tell you, all right, youneed between 12 to 22 sessions.
And then you're done.
And then there's a relapseprevention program.
So it's all thought out.
And it's really organized.
It's actually the UCLA OCDclinic, and I highly recommend
for people struggling with OCDto check that out.
SPEAKER_00 (15:41):
But you know what's interesting is I think now that
we know what OCD is, we've hadother people in our life tell us
they have it, and it's crazy howcommon it actually is.
SPEAKER_02 (15:52):
So many people came out of the woodworks.
I have it too.
SPEAKER_00 (15:56):
I actually did exposure response, and that's
what helped me.
And one of our friends was doingit too back in the day.
And we thought like his thingwas so different from yours.
It was just a subsection of OCD.
SPEAKER_02 (16:09):
Starting exposure response prevention is a
challenging task because if aprofessional doesn't describe to
you how to go about it, it canbe extremely triggering and it
can exasperate your symptoms.
So again, it goes back to beingproactive and taking that first
step and understanding howimportant it is to trust a
science-based therapist, aprofessional who can get you to
(16:31):
take that first step with them.
SPEAKER_00 (16:34):
And to find a therapist that specializes in
OCD and is familiar with thesekind of therapies, because
you're right, sometimes it takestwo or three therapists to find
the right person.
But once you know what you have,you can really focus on cutting
that down by trying to find aspecialist that focuses on it.
(16:57):
Right.
Now, Anna, you said that youalso live with anxiety.
How has anxiety shown up in yourlife?
For me, it definitely comes inwaves.
And I feel like...
It gets exasperated when I'mPMSing.
There's no way of really tellingsomeone they have PMDD, but I
(17:18):
was told that I have PMDD, whichcomes during my time of PMS.
It comes with depression andanxiety at really high levels.
And it's pretty scary when itwas happening.
And then I started realizing itwas only happening during a
certain time of the month.
And I was like, okay, this isstrange.
(17:39):
But honestly, Exercising a lothas really helped me.
I do Muay Thai, so that helps mea lot, just getting all that
out.
And diet is such a big part ofit, especially for women.
Diet and exercise can change somuch, and also herbal
supplements that I take.
I did so much research on my endbecause I feel like there's very
(18:04):
little information on that.
And when you go see someone forit, like a gynecologist, they
want to run tests on you and seehow it will work.
Because it's weird because it'smental, but it's also something
that your body is going through.
What are some of the herbalsupplements you take?
And can you also tell us whatthe acronym PMDD stands for?
(18:27):
PMDD stands for premenstrualdysphoric disorder.
It's basically PMS on a verysevere level.
And for me, it's more of themood stuff that happens with PMS
versus the other stuff.
The herbal supplements that havehelped me, I found this company,
(18:47):
it's called Flow.
And they use this herb calledDong Quai.
And that mixed with a chasberryand there's like B vitamins in
there.
Honestly, when I stopped takingit for a while, I started
feeling weird again.
And then Sean would be like,hey, did you forget to take your
vitamins this month?
And I'd be like, oh my God, Itotally did.
(19:09):
And then vitamin D and fish oiland magnesium are also really
good, but that's good for mentalhealth in general.
Yeah, we're super big on ourvitamins.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_02 (19:20):
staying on top of stuff like this, like the small
things, it goes a long way andit really helps us both.
SPEAKER_00 (19:26):
Well, it's amazing if you have a deficiency with a
certain vitamin, how it couldaffect you physically and
mentally.
I did a test to see what I wasdeficient in.
I was vitamin D, it was Bvitamins, and also things that I
was allergic to.
So it does make a difference.
And I've also found that I wastriggered hormonally with my
(19:50):
depression and anxiety alsoduring hormonal changes.
In fact, that's how I startedthe podcast because I was going
through hormonal changes and ittriggered a major depression.
And there was nothing else goingon in my life.
So I knew it was somethingphysical that was happening.
But it's really important totalk about because there are
(20:11):
quite a few physical things thatcan cause you to react mentally,
you know, and affect yourbehavior.
But one thing I was reading upon OCD, And Sean, it says
there's four differentcategories in general.
Like the first one is cleaningand contamination as far as
(20:32):
symptoms go.
The second is symmetry andorder.
The third is unacceptable ortaboo thoughts.
And the fourth is doubt andharm.
Do you feel like your symptomsfell into one of those four
categories?
SPEAKER_02 (20:48):
My symptoms fell into all of those categories
because I didn't know what Ihad.
So there was such a high levelof fear in me that my symptoms
kept changing.
It would be thoughts from allover the place.
And to even add on to thosecategories, there's like a bunch
of subcategories of OCD as well.
It can go from religious,existential.
(21:08):
So yeah, I had a variety of allof those categories.
There's something called Pure O.
It's a subcategory of OCD thatis strictly obsessions without
the compulsions.
However, you can still havemental compulsions with pure O.
For example, if I was having OCDand I was having a bunch of
(21:29):
intrusive thoughts, I would tryto force myself to think of
another thought to mask out theintrusive thoughts.
And that itself is a compulsion.
But it still falls into thecategory of pure O.
I think some people...
might see me and say, he doesn'thave OCD.
He doesn't go and check thedoorknob every two seconds, or
he doesn't check if the stove ison.
(21:51):
But I don't think people are100% educated on what OCD fully
means.
And that's why they think that.
But yeah, there's a ton ofsubcategories and a ton of
thoughts that I had until Iunderstood how to lean into
those.
SPEAKER_00 (22:06):
So you talked a lot about ERP.
Were there any medications thatYou tried for OCD.
And did any of those work?
SPEAKER_02 (22:15):
I was recommended medication.
I chose not to go that route.
But honestly, to each their own.
I definitely think the mixtureof medication and therapy or
exercise and therapy works fordifferent people.
Some people might prefer themedication, which is totally
fine.
But I think Being in thatrelaxed state and then doing the
(22:38):
therapy, that's the key.
And whether medication helps youwith that or working out or
yoga, I feel like you shouldjust try those options and then
take your pick on what helps youthe most.
SPEAKER_00 (22:49):
I can totally see where if you don't even have the
motivation or support frompeople to really work on
yourself, I feel like medicationis definitely a great option to
help
SPEAKER_02 (23:00):
you
SPEAKER_00 (23:00):
get your stuff back in order.
SPEAKER_02 (23:02):
Definitely.
SPEAKER_00 (23:04):
And sometimes...
While we're trying to find oursolutions that work for us,
sometimes musicians canself-medicate.
They can try drugs or alcohol orsomething else that can have
addictive qualities.
So have you, Anna, ever donesomething like that to try and
(23:25):
soothe your anxiety?
And the same for you, Sean, withyour OCD.
I think both of us definitelydrink on occasion.
But
SPEAKER_02 (23:34):
I'll have the thought like, oh my God, I like
the feeling of being drunk.
What if I become an alcoholic?
That's an average OCD thoughtright there.
So with alcohol, it's not goodfor you in the first place.
So I just try to stay away fromit as much as possible.
SPEAKER_00 (23:50):
And I think by him doing that, it's made me not
really want to drink much.
Thankfully, we haven't had aproblem with addiction.
That's obviously...
SPEAKER_02 (24:00):
A
SPEAKER_00 (24:00):
big problem for musicians in the industry.
I
SPEAKER_02 (24:03):
have tried CBD oil for when I was having really bad
OCD.
This was before my therapy.
I thought it would just help mecalm down and totally the
opposite.
I had like a month long panicattack from one experience.
Oh
SPEAKER_00 (24:19):
my gosh.
SPEAKER_02 (24:20):
There was THC in the oil as well.
And it was a disaster.
I think I just freaked out.
That's a story for another day.
SPEAKER_00 (24:29):
You know, I wanted to get to your song, Empath.
And would either of you consideryourselves empaths?
SPEAKER_02 (24:37):
Yeah, 100%.
I think both of us.
I think that's why we wrote thesong, because we were too much
of that.
There needs to be a healthybalance of being empathetic
towards others.
Personally, I was at anunhealthy level of being
empathetic towards otherpeople's emotions.
So I wanted to learn how todistance myself from that.
SPEAKER_00 (24:55):
I feel like I'm an empath and I'm wondering from
your perspective, what do youfeel the dangers are of being an
empath?
Something my mom used to say,because she noticed that in me,
even when I was a kid, like if Isaw someone else's life, it
really got to me and I would putit on myself.
(25:16):
And she would tell me this.
It's also like a very Armenianmom thing to say.
She would say, don't, feel toosorry for others because then
they'll start feeling sorry foryou because it puts such a
weight on you, especially as akid too.
I wanted to help everyone'sproblems.
There's definitely finding thatbalance of being there for
(25:38):
someone, helping them out, butalso not letting that affect
your life and affect your healthand well-being because then you
can't be there for that personwhen you're starting to feel
sorry.
SPEAKER_02 (25:50):
And understanding that you're not always in
control, and that's okay.
And that's okay.
I think it helps you be a lowerlevel of an empath.
SPEAKER_00 (26:01):
Empaths are here to help people and to help heal
them.
But thank you so much forEmpath.
It covers the five stages ofgrief, which is denial, anger,
bargaining, depression, andacceptance.
And I'm wondering whatexperience in your own life
reminds you of going throughthose stages of grief?
(26:22):
I think a big one that hit mehard during this pandemic is my
sister got COVID and she gotreally sick.
And we weren't really thinkingit would affect her the way that
it did.
She's 40.
So she's not like in that agegroup where you think, Damn, I
(26:42):
don't know if she's going tomake it.
So thankfully, she was able tofight through it.
And she had two strokes in theprocess of that.
So now she's in recovery.
And she's walking again, whichis awesome.
But she's still working onregaining all of her mobility.
And sorry, I'm gettingemotional.
But I think for my whole familyand even like Sean, everyone
(27:06):
around us, it was hard to acceptthat for a long time.
Accepting it and helping bethere for her.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (27:15):
I love the fact that everyone was proactive and
positive around her.
I feel like that helped her inher recovery.
And...
And she's still recovering, butwe see her progress on a
month-to-month basis.
And it's staggering from myperspective, from where she was
to where she is now.
Also, we didn't touch much aboutpositive energy, but I'm a big
(27:39):
believer in that, you know,staying positive and positive
talk, not just self-talk,reciprocating that with someone
else and giving off the positivevibes.
It goes a long way for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (27:51):
Yes, it does.
And Hannah...
My heart goes out to you andyour sister.
I'm glad that she's gettingbetter.
I know that COVID really hithard with the Armenian
community.
Culturally, you would be able tospeak to this better than I
would.
Sure.
I mean, so many people we knowhad it.
(28:12):
A few people we know lostparents.
So we saw it almost everywhere.
But yeah, in our Armeniancommunity, we saw it happen.
It's just amazing.
SPEAKER_02 (28:22):
It was devastating.
It was devastating that somepeople weren't taking it as
seriously while others weretaking it so seriously.
And we're trying to convey tothem, not just the Armenian
community, just everyone aroundus.
We're trying to convey to themhow serious
SPEAKER_00 (28:37):
this thing is.
I think we were both veryserious about it.
And our families were as well.
SPEAKER_02 (28:43):
And this thing hit people differently.
Whoever had COVID, theyexperienced it differently.
And we still don't understandit.
And that was the freaky part.
SPEAKER_00 (28:54):
Yes, it's exciting to have the vaccine out as well.
She got the vaccine too.
And that was another fear I kepthaving is, okay, she's better
now, but after a few months, youknow, she can get it again.
The vaccine was definitely supergrateful for that.
My anxiety, us being vaccinated,just all of that made me feel
(29:16):
better because my fear wasalways there's, Definitely a
chance of me getting it andgetting super sick.
But being an empath, I care moreabout the people around me and
not wanting to get them sick.
I was like an anxious messduring this whole thing.
SPEAKER_02 (29:32):
And
SPEAKER_00 (29:33):
I think the vaccine just calmed me down a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (29:36):
Yeah, and we were able to do band stuff after
that.
Not doing anything with the bandfor so long was like, oh my God.
SPEAKER_00 (29:45):
All that really demotivated us.
I stopped playing drums.
I just started playing again afew months ago.
And I was like, oh my God, thisis the happiest I've been in a
year.
We
SPEAKER_02 (29:57):
just booked our first show in a year and a half.
So that feels good.
That's going to be September 4that the Troubadour.
SPEAKER_00 (30:04):
Awesome.
The vaccine has given us thatextra layer of protection and
I'm vaccinated.
We're appreciative that we havethe ability to get the vaccine
in this country, but also livemusic is starting to come back.
What are you looking forward towith touring or with music in
general?
(30:25):
So I think now being cooped inand not having those
opportunities to go out and dothings, people are going to want
to do more things.
Were you the one that was like,I'm excited to go to the DMV or
SPEAKER_02 (30:39):
something?
Yeah, just going anywhere,seeing a human face-to-face, it
feels nice.
Humans need that.
SPEAKER_00 (30:47):
And I got to hug my niece for the first time in a
year and a half, and it justfelt so good.
And just to see people smilingfaces behind the mask, it I know
those little things, we just nowappreciate them so much more.
And one thing that you've done,which I really appreciate, is
you've donated part of theproceeds for t-shirts to
(31:07):
different nonprofits like NAMI.
And I think you had another one.
SPEAKER_02 (31:12):
For Antibody, for those shirts, when we released
that, we donated to ArmeniaFund.
Since Armenia was going througha very serious war at the time,
and it was November of 2020.
And now for Empath, we'll bedonating 15% of the Empath
t-shirt design, the t-shirtsitself to NAMI.
SPEAKER_00 (31:33):
Oh, very good.
The Check Your Head podcast isnow partnered with Sweet Relief
Musicians Fund, which is a 501c3nonprofit.
And maybe in the future, you cando a benefit show or something.
Oh, we
SPEAKER_02 (31:47):
would love that.
We would definitely love to dothat for
SPEAKER_00 (31:50):
sure.
Yeah, that would be amazing.
You know, I have one morequestion because I think it's
important for people to know howyour life has changed after
you've gone through therapy andafter you've gotten your OCD and
your anxiety at a low level.
SPEAKER_02 (32:07):
Definitely more of a clear head on a day to day.
You know, that doesn't mean Idon't have OCD.
I'm at a lower level of OCD.
I still have the symptoms.
And when I get stressed out, itdefinitely gets exasperated.
But leaning into it, when thethought comes, that's the key.
And that can help you do whatyou want to do on a day to day
without getting annoyed by theselingering thoughts.
(32:29):
So taking the first step to seeprofessional help is important.
It has potential to change yourlife.
And I'm not exaggerating.
I urge anyone listening to do soif they're struggling.
SPEAKER_00 (32:41):
Next, we have an expert who suffered with severe
obsessive compulsive disorderbefore finding the therapy that
saved his life.
OCD expert and advocate ChrisTronson will share his knowledge
of OCD and the therapy that hasan overwhelming success rate for
this disorder.
(33:01):
Chris is a registered marriageand family therapist and now
speaks nationwide on OCD.
Now let's hear Chris Tronsonshare his solutions.
I read your story, which firstof all is an incredible story,
but one thing that really struckme was that it took a long time
(33:23):
before you got diagnosed andthere's also misconceptions
about OCD.
What do you think is thegreatest misconception about
this condition?
SPEAKER_01 (33:33):
We know based on evidence that the average person
who receives treatment forobsessive compulsive disorder,
it took them about 14 to 17years after their first symptom
to get help.
That's a long time of strugglingwith this disorder.
And like that statistic, I too,I mean, when I started showing
symptoms as a child, I didn'treceive treatment till my early
(33:53):
20s.
So it took me many years likemost people.
And I do believe that themisconceptions of OCD is the
reason why it took me so long.
Some of the main things I hearis that it's a personality
quirk.
It's something people wish theyhad because they'd keep their
house clean.
Oh, all people with OCD rightnow must be loving the pandemic
because they get to wipe thingsdown.
So I think the misconception isit's all around contamination
(34:16):
and germs.
Maybe the second category peopleknow is checking things like the
stove or leaving the iron on andliking to organize the desk.
But the biggest misconception isthat people enjoy doing these
things.
It's not keeping your handsclean.
It's literally taking hours uponhours of showers, cleaning your
house, bleaching things, notseeing other people or letting
(34:37):
other people into your space.
But there's also all thesedifferent subtypes of OCD,
including taboo, intrusive harm,sexual deviant thoughts that
people don't want.
So there's such a larger worldof obsessive compulsive disorder
that people just don't knowabout.
And I believe that's a bigcontributing factor to why it
takes people so many years tolearn that they not only have
(34:58):
it, but to also get the properdiagnosis and then eventually
get the proper treatment.
SPEAKER_00 (35:03):
Well, the other thing is that, like with your
story, you actually suffered somuch that you almost lost your
life to it.
So it's not just this quirkycondition, but it's something
where people really suffer.
And they can not even leavetheir house because of all the
time that it takes to try andquell these fears.
(35:25):
But Let's start first with whatare some of the symptoms of OCD?
SPEAKER_01 (35:30):
So the main criteria of having OCD is the O stands
for obsession.
So that's where people arehaving intrusive thoughts,
intrusive feelings, urges,images.
There's something that's cominginto their life, mainly through
thoughts.
It can be feelings, sensationsthat are absolutely unwanted and
intrusive.
And because that person has suchan unpleasant experience with
(35:52):
those worries and fears, they dosome kind of physical or mental
act to try to make thosethoughts or feelings go away.
For instance, somebody who has afear that they may have hit
somebody with their car, whichis known as hit and run OCD.
Somebody may be driving aroundthe block multiple times or
checking their car for anydamage with the fear that they
potentially hurt someone.
(36:12):
With mental acts, people may tryto distract themselves or push
away thoughts or replace a badthought with a good thought or a
bad image with a good image.
So once somebody has thoseobsessions and responds with a
compulsion, it becomes cyclical.
thoughts, they do thosecompulsions, they get temporary
relief, but unfortunatelythey've reinforced that this
(36:34):
issue is a problem and they findthemselves not being able to get
out of that cycle.
Then the D in OCD stands fordisorder.
So that means that people arespending more than an hour a day
on this disorder.
Often when somebody's severe, itcan be greater than eight hours
a day.
In my own story, I was spending16 hours a day.
That's why I didn't leave thehouse for three years of my life
(36:55):
is because you're spending 16hours a day consumed with these
behaviors, both mental andphysical.
Now, when it comes to subtypes,that's what makes OCD hard to
identify is because the subtypespeople aren't hearing about.
We know contamination.
So that's going to be the fearof germs, illness, sickness,
since people go into greatlengths to keep themselves safe.
(37:16):
So that might be...
lengthy showers, repeatedshowers, hand washing, cleaning,
wiping items down.
We also have checking.
So that can be where somebodyhas a fear that they've left a
stove on or they've left theircar running in the garage and
they go to check it to makesure.
And then we have symmetry wherepeople have to keep things
organized or in line.
(37:37):
But those are sort of the onespeople already know about.
So now we jump into harmosity.
That's where somebody has thefear that they may hurt another
person or hurt themselves.
Now, when people hear that,People sometimes get scared.
Wait, there's people out therethat have these harm urges and
thoughts.
But the difference is somebodywith OCD is so disturbed by
those thoughts that they spendhours and hours a day to try to
(37:59):
get rid of those thoughts, ridof those feelings.
People will go to great lengthsto remove all the knives from
their house.
They might not have childrenbecause they're afraid that they
might accidentally harm theirchild.
Or they're repeatedly checkingthemselves into a hospital
because they fear that they'regoing to intentionally or
accidentally harm themselves.
We have scrupulosity.
that's centered around religion.
(38:20):
So people have the fear of goingto hell or doing something in
sin.
We also have sexual intrusivethoughts where somebody has
thoughts or images around havingsex with a minor or with a
family member or with a pet.
And once again, people may hearthat and think, wow, that person
must be disturbed.
But once again, these people aregood people who have great
(38:40):
hearts.
But the problem is they'rehaving these opposite kind of
fears and actions And it makesthe person so uncomfortable that
they try to push it away.
There's even a relationship OCDwhere the person consistently
questions, is this relationshipsomething they want to be in?
It has somebody who's madly inlove with their wife question
the relationship even as they'rewalking down the aisle.
(39:00):
We have what's called magicalthinking.
And that's where people feel anurge to perform an act in order
to prevent something bad fromhappening.
For instance, for my own story,I felt like I had to wake up
every day at 9.45, if I woke upbefore or after I felt something
bad would happen to my mom.
Now hearing that doesn't make alot of sense We have sexual
(39:22):
orientation OCD, where somebodywho's heterosexual and happy in
a relationship is gettingintrusive thoughts that they may
potentially be interested insomeone of the same sex.
And with all these subtypes,it's absolutely the opposite of
what that individual wants.
And so they're fightingconstantly in their own head,
their own body.
So there's all these differentpainful subtypes that
(39:42):
individuals struggle with.
And that's why there's so manypeople going untreated and
undiagnosed, because most of thetime people don't know that any
of these other subtypes exist.
SPEAKER_00 (39:53):
OCD sounds really individualized as far as the
fears and the thoughts that aregoing through your head.
And I know when I was in a verybad depression and anxiety
period that I had thoughts thatI would not normally think of.
And these thoughts scared me.
So all of these thingslogically, you know, are not
(40:14):
going to happen, but they feelvery real when you're in it.
SPEAKER_01 (40:19):
Absolutely.
And when we've looked at scans,when somebody's going through
intrusive thoughts, the brain islit up.
I mean, all the centers,especially that frontal cortex,
where our fear center lies,those things are lit up.
So even if this person isn't indanger, their brain is lighting
up.
And it's not just the brain,it's the body.
You know, people start to noticethat they feel physiological
symptoms, their throat isgetting dry, their heart's
(40:41):
pounding fast, their blood isbeing pumped, the cortisol
levels are going up.
So even if that personrationally knows that nothing is
wrong, their body and theirbrain is kind of going off, even
though nothing's wrong.
So the person feels inclined toget back to that safety zone.
And as somebody who's livedthrough it, now, after
treatment, I can look back andsay, why was I afraid of all
those things happening?
(41:02):
They never did.
But in the moment, if you wouldhave talked to me, I literally
felt as life or death multiplehours a day.
SPEAKER_00 (41:08):
Right.
And then all of that cortisoland adrenaline that's going
through your body, for all thattime is really bad for your
body, right?
Just the chemicals thatshouldn't be there are there,
and it totally wears down onyour body and your mind.
SPEAKER_01 (41:26):
Correct.
I mean, this is supposed to betemporary.
What somebody with OCD goesthrough, which makes it such a
unique disorder, is the personisn't going through a temporary
once-a-week moment of panic.
This individual could be goingthrough stressful situations
temporarily 10 times an hour,like when I was at my most
severe, 16 hours a day, I wasgoing up and down, fight or
(41:46):
flight.
Your body isn't meant to havethat happen.
And it's draining.
It burns you out.
It makes you exhausted.
that wears on your immunesystem.
You're not supposed to havecortisol and adrenaline and
norepinephrine, et cetera,pumping all day throughout.
And so that's why people getvery weak and sick when they're
going through years and years ofstress.
And if it goes untreated for avery long time, like if I see a
(42:08):
client who's in their 60s, 70s,80s, they're having health
issues that is strictly from theuntreated obsessive compulsive
disorder and the stress andhavoc it puts on someone's body.
SPEAKER_00 (42:20):
Do you find that OCD runs in families or is there
specific causes for OCD?
SPEAKER_01 (42:27):
OCD definitely falls more on the genetic ends.
So often with my clients, peoplein their families have shown
signs and symptoms of OCD.
I know in my own family, my dadhas showed health OCD.
My grandfather was a hoarder,which hoarding disorder falls
under OCD and depression in myfamily, anxiety as well.
So it's not abnormal at all.
You know, there can sometimes bean environmental factor.
(42:49):
So we noticed that some people,their OCD may have been mild or
unnoticed, and then they have adeath in the family or a really
tragic event.
And it's like the floodgatesbroke down and now everything
comes to a head.
But all of the research is inagreement that it's not that it
caused them to develop the OCD.
It's just that the OCD becamemore prominent once the loss of
(43:09):
control and the difficult timehappened.
But it's definitely genetic andpassed down generation to
generation, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_00 (43:17):
Okay.
Well, I think that's importantto note because sometimes when
people have mood disorders, theyblame themselves or they feel
like, you know, I did this or,you know, what's wrong with me.
And oftentimes it could besomething that is part of our
DNA.
Now, one thing that Sean talkedabout was exposure and response
(43:38):
therapy, and it stands for ERP.
Can you tell me about that?
And is that the main thing?
type of therapy that's used forOCD?
SPEAKER_01 (43:48):
So yes, ERP, which is exposure response prevention
therapy.
The type of therapy isabsolutely the gold standard.
therapy for OCD.
And what gold standard means isit's evidence-based, it's been
researched, it's scientific,it's been shown through studies
for many years now since the70s, proven to be the gold
standard treatment for OCD.
(44:08):
So what I always tell peoplewhen they're looking for
treatment is you have to makesure your therapist not only
does ERP but knows it well.
But like many people,unfortunately the first
therapist we see often don'tknow ERP and we go to talk
therapy or some other type oftreatment and it doesn't change
behavior through talk And that'swhat makes ERP different.
It's a very behavioraltreatment.
(44:30):
The E stands for exposure.
So it's putting yourself in astressful situation.
Response prevention comes in allthose physical and mental
compulsions we talked about,we're asking to reduce and then
eliminate them.
So for my own treatment, forinstance, I lived with my
grandma, my younger sister, andI would get a lot of intrusive
thoughts about harming them.
And I love them.
(44:51):
I mean, they were my favoritepeople in the world.
And I know the reason I wouldget thoughts about them is
because they were very fragile.
You know, my little sister wasvery young, my grandma's very
old.
And so before treatment, I wouldjust avoid them.
I was so worried about hurtingthem that I'd only be in the
room with them if other peoplewere there, or I'd avoid them
altogether.
And I used to cry myself tosleep because I wanted to spend
time with them, but I was soafraid based off the urges.
(45:14):
So once I got treatment tofinally find a specialist in
ERP, So the exposure for me wasto spend time alone with my
grandmother, spend time alonewith my younger sister.
Now, the feelings would get veryloud because I was around them.
You know, oh, this is going tobe it.
You're going to harm them.
And we think that we shouldreassure ourselves or talk back
(45:36):
to the OCD or calm ourselvesdown and say, no, I'd never do
that.
But the problem is thereassurance just made it louder.
The more I try to push it away,the more I resist, the more it
persists.
So instead, you have to justtolerate and sort of accept it
up.
Maybe I will.
Let's see.
Why sitting with my grandma ifthe thought came up, I let it
sit there.
When the urge came up, I waslike, yeah, let's see.
(45:56):
Well, of course, what startedhappening is nothing happened,
never harmed them.
In fact, I started to spend moretime with them.
And over time, the thoughts andthe feelings subsided, and I was
able to hang out with themwithout any stress.
So exposure response preventionis challenging, has somebody
face their fears, and live withuncertainty that those fears can
happen.
But by putting yourself in thatand proving it, That's what
(46:19):
changes behavior.
And ultimately, we want peopleto live a life.
We want people to spend timewith their grandma and their
sister.
We want people to travel.
We want people to go back tochurch or whatever they're
avoiding because of the OCD.
I
SPEAKER_00 (46:31):
think it's really important that You bring up that
you don't try to quiet yourfears because I know in other
types of CBT, you try to replacethe thought with something else.
But in this case, you kind oflean into your fear.
And the more you do your fear,the more you're able to see that
(46:52):
no harm is being done.
And that quells the anxiety.
Is that true?
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (46:57):
Absolutely.
I mean, I want to first say thatCBT is an amazing type of
treatment.
It's absolutely wonderful.
I've been trained in it and it'sincredible for other disorders.
That's what makes OCD so uniqueis ERP is actually a type of
CBT.
The difference is just what yousaid.
I mean, if somebody's dealingwith traditional generalized
anxiety disorder, they're goingto replace or challenge some of
(47:19):
those absolutely distortedthoughts.
But in OCD, those thoughts arecoming at you a mile a minute.
So if you were to sit there andtry to replace a bad thought,
you're going to get a new badthought five minutes later.
And pretty soon, you're spending16 hours a day chasing these
thoughts around.
So we actually lean into it.
We actually learn that no dangeroccurs.
(47:39):
And we teach ourselves that ourbrain, unfortunately, put
something in the dangerouscategory that we can move over
to the safe category and that'swhy somebody who used to be
afraid of driving or going tochurch or being around children
or whatever their fear is aroundas soon as they learn that
nothing bad will happen theyrelax they get more comfortable
and pretty soon they can go backto the activity that was taken
(48:01):
away but yes the learninghappens and that's why people if
they do treatment right don'thave a relapse five days later
it's because learning occurredyour brain has neuroplasticity
and the ability to changebecause of learning.
And in my own case, all thethings that I had feared, I
conquered.
I overcame.
I went back to being aroundpeople, my family, and I had
learned so much from thetreatment that old things that
(48:23):
freaked me out, like becomehousebound, attempt suicide, be
at the lowest point in my life.
My life was no longer like thatafter the treatment.
It really, really works.
It's an extremely effectivetreatment.
SPEAKER_00 (48:34):
You know, Sean did a lot of research on his OCD, and
he said that ERP actually hasabout an 80% success rate.
Would you say that's true?
SPEAKER_01 (48:45):
Yeah, it has extremely high success rate.
There was a meta-analysis of abunch of studies from different
research that showed that it canbe 76% to 86% effective.
SPEAKER_00 (48:57):
Can you tell me about your life now and how
different it is compared to whenyou were at your lowest point
with OCD?
SPEAKER_01 (49:04):
Absolutely.
I mean, my lowest point was bad.
I spent about three years in myhouse.
I didn't leave.
I was living alone with aroommate.
And so I was burning my savings,wasn't working.
I'd leave my house Sundays to a24-hour grocery store to buy
enough supplies for the week,disconnected with my family, my
friends.
I mean, I went from being anathlete and passionate about
(49:25):
music and life and just beingreally happy to completely a
shell of myself.
I was housebound, attemptedsuicide, was hospitalized, and
everything fell apart for me.
But after the treatment ofgetting my life back, I started
to pursue my passion.
So I've come full circle.
I loved so much becoming anadvocate.
That was my first stop on myrecovery journey.
(49:45):
And I was able to speak todifferent hospitals and I was
on, you know, national TV shows.
And I loved that.
But everybody would reach outand be like, your story is so
inspirational.
Help me.
And I'm like, but I can't.
I'm not a therapist.
And I felt something wasmissing.
So I started going back toschool and eventually was able
to become a therapist.
So now I treat OCD and relateddisorders.
(50:06):
But I've just really beendedicating my life to making
sure that people don't suffer aslong as I did and get that
treatment a lot sooner.
I have a great relationship withfamily now and friends and date.
I mean, the pandemic hasn't beengreat.
But other than that, justreally, really living a full
life.
And that's what I want everybodyto know is that OCD can
absolutely take you to yourlowest point.
(50:27):
But with treatment, you can getyour life back.
And not only that, you learn toappreciate life more after
you've stared death in the faceor at least your hardest times.
You become a more compassionate,understanding, and just loving
life.
And so I...
Can't pretend I'm happy all thetime, but definitely excited
about the work I do, but alsothe person I've become and the
(50:48):
life I've created.
SPEAKER_00 (50:49):
Well, I think that's really the important point is
that once you go throughsomething really difficult, I
mean, like mental healthjourneys, getting to the other
side, there really is abeautiful life because you have
the appreciation.
You know, everything really doesseem brighter.
You know, I'm going to shift alittle with this question
(51:10):
because Anna also talked aboutanxiety and she talked about how
her hormones triggered a mooddisorder.
And that actually happened withme as well.
And I didn't realize that myhormones were actually causing
me to go into a depression andanxiety.
So can you explain how hormonesand mental health are sort of
(51:34):
tied?
SPEAKER_01 (51:36):
Absolutely.
I mostly feel compassionate forwomen because there's a lot of
shift with depression andanxiety sometimes around
someone's period.
I mean, a lot of women will saythat the OCD or the anxiety or
the depression is worse.
There's a lot of women thatreally struggle through
menopause as they have that hugehormonal shift.
Another big one is withpregnancy.
(51:57):
We see people with postpartum,it could be depression, it could
be anxiety or OCD.
Also, we see a lot of people'smental health disorders come
out.
So we see that 13 to 18 year oldrange really shift, or we can
see it from that 18 to 21 yearold age shift as people are
ending puberty.
So hormones has a huge part todeal with these mental health
(52:19):
disorders.
So for PMDD, a lot of women canhave that as well, where each
month around the time of theirperiod, it's not the same for
them as it is for other people.
They go into a really heightenedanxiety state or depression, or
they have a lot of differentimpacts.
I've worked with clients, forinstance, with anxiety or OCD or
depression.
They've gone their whole lifeokay, and then they get
(52:41):
pregnant.
And right after the child isborn, their mental health
completely deteriorates and theystart going into a deep
depression, maybe havingsuicidal intrusive thoughts or
harm thoughts around the childor finding themselves so anxious
or unable to get out of bed.
I worked with a woman who neverhad children, but when she went
through menopause, the OCD gotto the point she couldn't
function and had to quit herjob.
(53:02):
So during those period of timeswhen people's mental health
disorders first show up orpotentially come out, what I
find that when they're treatingthe hormones, with a medical
doctor, that can help a lot.
And I usually do encourage that.
If somebody notices thathormones is playing a huge part
in their mental health, that isalways what I first recommend is
(53:22):
that although ERP andmedication, if somebody needs to
take it, is super important,this has to be treated
holistically.
So we have to make sure thatwe're seeing a doctor that can
work with that.
So what I usually suggest forclients is a full medical workup
to see if hormones plays a roleand there's different things
that people can take.
Sometimes women will get onbirth control even if they don't
(53:44):
need it for other reasons andthat can help.
Sometimes there's things withthyroid that can impact.
So we just have to make surethat we're also treating that as
well if that's having an impacton mental health.
SPEAKER_00 (53:55):
Well, that's actually what happened with me
is that I took a really bad turnduring menopause.
And since then, I've had to goon a hormone schedule and also
take some thyroid medication.
And it's been a huge change.
There was nothing going on in mylife that would have triggered
that.
besides the fact that I wasgoing through menopause.
(54:18):
So that's why it was also reallyconfusing to me.
And doctors don't really talkabout this.
So I'm really glad you broughtup doing a full medical panel,
because oftentimes it can besomething physical that is going
on that can cause a mooddisorder.
SPEAKER_01 (54:33):
Absolutely.
And I'm so glad that you'reopening up about your own story.
I mean, I think this is the onlyway things get out there is when
individuals who have livedthrough it open up to the public
and say, hey, this is somethingthat's happening because there
isn't a lot of people talkingabout it.
So I always tell people, let'streat the whole person and make
sure that we're not missing anycomponents.
SPEAKER_00 (54:55):
Is there anything else that you would like to say
about OCD or mental health?
SPEAKER_01 (55:00):
So if you have a mental health disorder, I just
hope you know that there is sucha vast community out there,
including this amazing podcastof people that definitely get
it.
If you don't feel supported bysociety, we're all here to
support you.
And if you're somebody thatdoesn't have a mental health
disorder and are hearing this,and maybe it's a family member,
a friend or somebody else inyour life, the biggest thing
that they want is not pity.
(55:20):
They just want understanding andsupport.
So I always say that my favoriteday in the world will be one day
when we know that mental healthdisorders are treated with the
same dignity, respect andurgency as physical health
disorders.
That would be the day I feltlike my mission was finally met.
So that's what I hope.
And that's why I do this.
And that's why I love stuff likewhat you're doing.
And I'm so happy that people inthe music industry have a home,
(55:43):
you know, a place where they canfeel confident about getting
support and realizing that it'snot something to be embarrassed
by.
It's something that you're doingfor your own well-being and
support.
A
SPEAKER_00 (55:53):
big thank you to our musical guests, Sean Sulejian
and Anna Gavorkian of SatelliteCity.
and a mental health expert,Chris Tronson.
For more information onSatellite City, visit
SatelliteCity.com and followthem on their socials, at
Satellite City.
Stay tuned for a clip ofSatellite City's single, Empath,
(56:14):
from their debut album, FearTactics, which will drop on
September 3, 2021.
And join us for their albumrelease and benefit show for
mental health at the Troubadourin Los Angeles on September 4th.
To buy tickets, visittroubadour.com.
For more information on ChrisTronson, visit gatewayocd.com to
(56:37):
reach the Gateway Institute inCosta Mesa, California.
And follow Chris on his socialsat Chris Tronson.
Follow the Check Your Headpodcast on our socials at
CheckYourHeadPodcast and visitCheckYourHeadPodcast.com to find
more than 125 mental healthsolutions for recovery.
So until next time, be brave,ask for help, and be persistent
(57:01):
in finding the mental help thatyou
SPEAKER_01 (57:16):
need.
SPEAKER_00 (57:29):
Check Your Head Podcast is kindly supported and
partnered with Sweet ReliefMusicians Fund, DBSA San Gabriel
Valley, Earshot Media, and LemonTree Studios in Los Angeles.
Visit checkyourheadpodcast.comwhere we have over 100 solutions
for mental health.
Be our friends on social mediaat Check Your Head Podcast.
(57:50):
Watch us on YouTube and supportus with a kind donation on
checkyourheadpodcast.com.
Check Your Head podcast issponsored by a 501c3 nonprofit
with all donations being taxdeductible.
Thank you for your support andthank you for listening.
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