Shaun Morgan, Corey Lowery (Seether): Living w/Depression & Suicide Aftermath w/Dr. Dan Reidenberg (SAVE.org, Suicide Prevention expert)

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to the Check Your Head podcast, the podcast
where notable musicians andexperts come and share their
stories and their solutions formental health and wellness.
I'm your host, Mari Fong, amusic journalist and life coach
for musicians, and we've justsaid our final goodbye to 2020.

(00:21):
A year full of constant changeand loss.
Loss of jobs, loss ofbusinesses, loss of our daily
routines, and most devastatingis the loss of life and health
of our loved ones during thecoronavirus pandemic.
For everyone who has lostsomeone or something in 2020,
I'd like to send you my love,care, and compassion to you and

(00:42):
your family.
But despite our losses, I dobelieve that we're headed for
brighter days in 2021 as we lookforward to receiving the
COVID-19 vaccine.
and gradually returning to ournormal lives.
But in the meantime, let's stayvigilant, let's stay hopeful,
and let's stay safe knowingthere's a light at the end of
this tunnel.
If you're experiencing a loss inyour mental health, visit

(01:03):
checkyourheadpodcast.com whereyou can find help and solutions.
Now to our featured musicalguests.
This multi-platinum band iscelebrating their 20th
anniversary, having recentlydropped their latest album
entitled Sea Weece, PachamParabellum, that debuted number
two on Billboard's Hard Rockchart, with their single

(01:24):
Dangerous reaching number one atRock Radio, which is their 16th
number one hit in this band'scareer.
So our featured guests today areSean Morgan and Corey Lowry of
the awesome rock band Seether.
In 2007, Sean Morgan's brotherEugene died by suicide, and
since then, Sean and Seetherhave created the Rise Above

(01:45):
Fest, featuring bands such asPopper Roach, Godsmack, slash
and avenge sevenfold to raiseawareness for suicide prevention
and mental illness.
Proceeds from the festival areshared with a nonprofit called
Save.org, which stands forSuicide Awareness Voices of
Education, which ties into ournext featured guest, mental

(02:05):
health expert, Dr.
Dan Reidenberg, executivedirector of Save.org.
Dr.
Dan is one of the top experts inthe world on suicide prevention,
being honored with numerousawards such as the Service to
Humanity Award and the Championsof Change Award given to him by
President Barack Obama.
Dr.
Dan is also a personal friend toSean Morgan and with Cedar are

(02:29):
both working together asadvocates for suicide
prevention.
So let's start with Sean andCorey of Seether, sharing their
struggles as musicians,husbands, and fathers during
this pandemic and how it'saffected their mental health.
Well, first I wanted to startoff because, you know, we're in
a really unusual time.

(02:52):
We're experiencing thecoronavirus pandemic.
And I'm wondering, as amusician, how are you surviving
and thriving during during thiswith your mental health?

SPEAKER_05 (03:05):
It's been tough.
I mean, there's definitely gooddays and there's some really
terrible days, but for the mostpart, it's been all right.
I mean, we've basically had ourentire livelihood taken away
from us and you don't reallyrealize how much of your life is
tied into it until it'scompletely taken away.

(03:26):
So there's, there's no, youknow, there's, there's not
really any kind of income comingin this year.
There's no, um, there'sobviously no touring.
There's no live shows.
We, we can do a stream here andthere, or there's other options,
I guess.
But, uh, essentially it, we, Ifeel kind of helpless.
I really feel like I'm at a lossfor what to do because I feel
completely unproductive.

(03:46):
I can, you know, I sit in thisroom and I write some music
every once in a while, but forthe most part, I mean, in the
very beginning, it hit me prettyhard and I went into like, you
know, full three months of justsort of depression, I would say.

SPEAKER_03 (03:58):
And

SPEAKER_05 (03:59):
then I kind of started coming out the other
side of that a bit, but it's, Idon't know, I think I'm kind of
going back down the other sidenow.
So it's tough.
It's been a rough one.

SPEAKER_00 (04:09):
How about you, Corey?

SPEAKER_01 (04:11):
Yeah, I mean, you have good days and bad days.
The first two, three months ofthis, it was just like, it's
devastating because you're like,wait a minute, you know, we have
a record that we're going to beputting out.
We're excited to tour.
You know, we love doing our jobsand that's taken away.
So it's like, and we don't knowfor sure exactly how long.

(04:34):
And, you know, we just did alive thing yesterday.
a couple of weeks ago or a weekago or so.
And it was just so good to seethe guys and we cooked dinner
together and got a chance tohang out and be normal for a
second.
And then, you know, you do allthis preparation to do all that
stuff.
It was a big production and itwas a great hang for a couple of

(04:56):
weeks.
And then you come home and it'slike, oh my God, you know, the
depression part, you know, goingto my basement, I'm like, and
try to write some music andstuff.
And I try to find ways to get meout of that situation, you know,
through exercise and jujitsu andCrossFit and stuff like that.

(05:19):
But, you know, nothing's goingto really replace what you truly
love, and that's music and beingable to play this stuff.
So it is a daily battle, youknow, and we're always here for
each other.
and kind of thing.
And knowing that you've got thatkind of support system is good.
But, you know, we've got to hangin there and get through this

(05:42):
one way or the other.

SPEAKER_00 (05:44):
Yeah, you know, I, as a fan, and I'm sure as a
musician as well, you know, justthat exchange of energy that you
get from a live show, you know,you feel it on stage when you
feel all the love and supportand you see all the fans singing
your songs.
And at the same time, you know,we are getting all that energy
that energy, the lyrics, themelodies of your music.

(06:06):
I mean, that is so healing andit's just like such a great time
that oftentimes I am just on ahigh, probably for a week or
two, you know, going to a greatshow.
So it has been rough and theredefinitely has been ups and
downs.
But, you know, when we talkabout mental health, how has
that personally affected eitheryou or your loved ones?

SPEAKER_05 (06:30):
I think it's definitely taking a toll on my
relationships with my wife, forexample.
Some days are real good and somedays are not.
The being trapped inside all thetime thing, I used to be okay
with it because I'm not really avery sociable person.
But even I'm now getting to apoint where I feel like I'm
trapped and I feel like I'mcompletely trading water all the

(06:52):
time, just trying to keep myhead above the water.
I've basically lost a bunch ofmotivation for a bunch of
things.
I mean, I'm, I find myselfcompletely unmotivated to do
anything half the time.
Yeah.
It's just, it's kind of a weirdplace to be in.
It's a really dark place to feellike you're in.
You can, you can bring into the,to the whole conversation, the
role as well of men as, astraditionally not.
And I don't, I don't, care todevolve into some sort of

(07:16):
discussion about the genderroles in society specifically.
But in this house, for example,I'm the provider.
And I know Corey's the provider.
I know Dale's the provider.
I know John's the provider.
So we're all the providers forour families.
And we are provider, protector,and parent and partner.
But you take away one of thosefundamental blocks, and it

(07:39):
really does make the house quitefragile.
you know, it puts the foundationon a, on a, on a bit of a rough
ground.
So yeah, it's been, it's been arough time.
And I think for me as well.
So it's kind of made me realizethat I put so much, um, so many
eggs in this one basket thatI've kind of never really
thought about what would happenif this goes away.

(08:00):
I've always kind of sort ofassumed that, you know, there'll
come a time when I say, okay,you know what?
I'm just too old for this.
And it's time for me to hang upmy hat, you know?
But, um, Yeah, so that's theother thing.
So in that sense, it's kind ofbeen interesting because it
helps you to understand, okay,cool, I got to start, I got to
get creative and start startingsome businesses or some other
ventures that I can have that incase this happens again, I won't

(08:22):
feel this anxious all the time.
But ultimately, the strain ison, you know, the relationships
are great.
I mean, they really are.
I love having my kid and my wifeand I generally are in a good
spot.
But then you have disagreements.
And I think everything is sounder the microscope that

(08:46):
everything feels much biggerthan it is.
Like an argument feels like it'sa much larger scope than it
really is.
And you feel like youroverreaction is far more
dramatic than it needs to be.
And I'm certainly the one who'sprone to overreacting to things.
And I take everything quitepersonally.
And I always think everything ismy fault.
So it's kind of like, you know,add that to the mix on top of

(09:08):
everything else.
And it's just a keg ready toblow.
I'm now looking at some otherguys that are out there playing
shows.
With some success, obviously ona smaller scale, but they're
doing it acoustically.
They're doing either drive-inshows or they're doing outdoor
shows or they're doing speciallycurated sort of indoor shows.
So I'm actually going to bespeaking to management about

(09:31):
that in the next couple of daysand seeing if there's anything
that we can do.
And then Corey and I can go outfor a weekend and play a couple
of shows at least and then comeback and at least feel like
something's happening.
You know what I mean?
Because I think of the bandguys, the two of us are the ones
– that really i think rely onthis more and actually and live
this life more than the otherguys you know and that's not

(09:52):
saying that they aren't asemotionally invested um but for
example Johnny loves being homewith his kids.
And his one kid's at collegenow.
He's a hell of a drummer.
So they've got that in common.
And he loves that sort of familyenvironment.
Dale loves to go fishing everyday.
So Dale doesn't...
Dale's kind of always chilledout and he's laid back.
Certainly, that's the way hecomes across.
And for Corey and I, everysingle day, we're in our

(10:13):
studios.
We were either writing music orwe are trying to find...
bands to produce or, or bands towrite songs for, or, you know,
so we're constantly in thisworld that you see us sitting in
now.
That's, that's his studio.
This is mine.
And I think on that level too,it's, it's because we're always
in this world and almost rarelyever step out of it.

(10:35):
Um, it's that much moreimportant for us to be, to be
doing it.
I think, I think often if, well,if we all could retire at this
point, we might say, you knowwhat, it's been a good run.
I can sit back now and hang outwith my family, but none of us
are in that position.
So none of us are in a positionto say, okay, cool.
If this all ends right now,then, then that's fine.
I'm done.
And I'm set for life.

(10:56):
You know, it's kind of, it's,it's a difficult situation
again, but, um, Yeah, so we'retrying to look into things like
that because a friend of ours isactually doing these acoustic
things quite often.
Touring isn't easy by anystretch of the imagination, but
playing shows and being withthese guys on a bus and being
with these guys in a room andseeing the response, that

(11:18):
dopamine hit you get from thecrowd response, all of these
things are very important to ourbrain chemistry, and now it's
gone.
So now my brain's going, well,hey, man, I haven't had a hit of
anything for a while, so what'sgoing on?
And it's very, very difficult torecreate those kinds of chemical

(11:38):
reactions when you're sitting athome in your studio.
You know what I

SPEAKER_00 (11:42):
mean?
No, I absolutely know what youmean.
And, you know, it's tough.
And, you know, there are a lotof ups and downs that come with
this pandemic.
Speaking about your music, youhave the song Rise Above This,
which you wrote sort of an odeto your brother.
And a beautiful, beautiful song.
And from that came the RiseAbove Fest, which is all about

(12:06):
suicide prevention and aboutdonating part of the proceeds to
an organization called SAVE.
It stands for, what is it?

SPEAKER_05 (12:16):
Suicide Awareness Voices of Education.

SPEAKER_00 (12:20):
Okay.
Right, right.
And, you know, I think it'sreally important.
Thank you so much for speakingout about your brother and also,
you know, doing this in honor ofhim.
But I think it's important toknow like the effect of what
suicide can do to families andloved ones.

(12:41):
Can you kind of, you know,express to me how that affected
you, your feelings when thathappened?

SPEAKER_05 (12:48):
Well, I basically hit out in the bottom of a vodka
bottle for, you know, the betterpart of three or four years and
did all the drugs under the sun.
But a real physical response wasit actually broke my dad's
heart.
One of his ventricles stoppedworking completely.

(13:09):
He had an artery that was one ofthe arteries, or I think it was
an artery, not a vein, goingfrom his heart because of that
actually sort of, it had thisweird anomaly where it sort of
atrophied and was absorbed bythe body and it was no longer
there.
So he was running on threechambers for a long time.
And that was all due to thatdeath.

SPEAKER_03 (13:28):
So

SPEAKER_05 (13:29):
he had to have a pacemaker put in.
But that was a physical, actualbroken heart response, which I
never knew that there was.
I thought that was a hyperbolicthing.
I thought it was written by aShakespearean sort of throw out
statement.
But as it so appears, it canactually happen.
For me, it was just, he was onthe road with us.

(13:50):
And it was just, you basically,we flew home.
had the memorial service, thenwe were back working in two
weeks because I needed to bebusy.
I needed my mind to be busy.
And again, honestly, it wasn'tso much about being busy as it
was about being numb.
And I did that for a long timeand many, many times when I

(14:10):
should have probably died myselfthrough excess.
So after those three or fouryears of complete devastation,
just moping around, I just hadthe idea that, and I think we
were even sitting in some littleplace in South America or
something.
I think we were on a tour thereand, um, we just happened to be
talking to all the guys.
It was like, Hey, we should dosomething about, we should do

(14:31):
something in this for suicideawareness.
And, We set up the whole, thefirst one basically took about a
month to set up and that was it.
We didn't have much time.
So we had, it was kind of athrow and go situation.
We had some bands that we knewthat were in the area and we
asked them if they would alljust take that entire, or
whoever was in the area, couldthey all come and play this
particular night?
We had a friend do lights forfree.
We had, you know, we hadsomebody do the sound for free.

(14:52):
We did it at this little outdooramphitheater in Guildford, New
Hampshire.
And it was a pretty great, Imean, a pretty successful for,
for something that was barelyadvertised and it was kind of
just sort of thrown togetherquickly.
We ended up having about 5,000people and we considered it
quite successful.
And then we, a stage at Exit 111Festival, which was really,

(15:14):
really gracious of those guys togive us that platform.
And we had a tent and we had Dr.
Dan, who's like the crusader ofsuicide awareness.
He lives and breathes thisstuff.
He's a truly wonderful guy.
And he's the head guy over atSave.
And he's really passionate.
So it's really easy to keepsomething alive.

(15:35):
the momentum for something likethat going because his passion
drives so much of his as much asmine does from from for
different reasons um and we weresupposed to then that was last
year it was at the stage so thisyear was supposed to be the
launching year of our reborn uhrise above fest here in
nashville um and of course nowthat's been put on hold but the
the the really cool thing aboutit is is it's it's I believe the

(15:57):
largest gathering in the worldfor suicide awareness.
That's a rock show.
And it's, you know, the wholeidea is that it's about
positivity and it's about thefact that if you feel like you
need to speak to somebody, youshould just speak to somebody.
And I mean, I read a thing theother day, or it was actually
today.
It's like, you know, I'd ratherhave a difficult conversation

(16:20):
with you than go to yourfuneral.
And that kind of stuck with me.
I read that today, actually.

SPEAKER_00 (16:28):
Well, you know, I've talked to other musicians who
have gone through mooddisorders, depression, and I
could think of one inparticular.
She said, I was so thankful thatmy bandmate came up to me and
said, what is going on?
I know that you are not...
feeling the way that younormally do and not acting the

(16:51):
way that you normally do and hadthat difficult conversation.
And she said, despite the factthat it was uncomfortable at the
time, she says it probably savedher life, you know?
And I think it's importantsometimes to really get into
someone's face and just, youknow, see what you can do.
But, you know, through all ofthe experiences that you've had,

(17:13):
and I'm sure knowledge thatyou've gained through, um, you
know, through all of this, whatkind of advice would you give
somebody if they did approachyou, you know, saying, I am
having suicidal thoughts?

SPEAKER_05 (17:30):
It's tough.
I mean, you know, we also, Coreyand I also have different
perspectives on our kidscurrently.
We have, you know, I have athree-year-old, he's got a
13-year-old.
So I think, yeah, mythree-year-old has been back at
daycare now for a month.
So it's, she was definitely, youknow, acting out.
She would have lots of reallyangry, emotional days.
And I think she was missing thesocial interaction, even at

(17:51):
three.
Even as someone as young asthat, she could tell that being
with mommy and daddy every daywas just, it's not cool.
It's like, you know, it's great,but it's also, I prefer these
other little kids that I can runaround with and we can play on
the swings and stuff like that.
So yeah.
in those days, for example, youknow, and I'm not, I'm not
talking about somebody else, butin those days we'd have to say
to her, like, why are you soangry?

(18:12):
What is, what is, what is wrong?
How can we make you feel better?
Because, you know, and she, shereally, had just started, it was
just before she turned three.
So she's, she turned three inJuly.
So she's done this thing.
What started, we basically kepther out since February.
So there's, this was a good, youknow, six months of her being
home with us.
And she's in that time, hervocabulary exploded and she

(18:33):
became this little person.
And she's like this, this reallycool little kid.
And now towards the end of it,it's, it's easier to have a
conversation with her.
And she can say, I'm sad, I'mmad.
And then she'll, she'll try andexplain to you why.
But in the beginning, shecouldn't, she couldn't tell me,
she couldn't vocalize what the,what the problem was.
And I knew it was something, butI didn't know how to help now as
far as if somebody comessomebody that's an older person
comes up and says hey you knowthat's the thing i i could be

(18:57):
what has worked for me in thepast has been to find my
creative outlets and to use thembut i my motivation is at an
all-time zero right now umbecause i'm again i'm sort of at
a in a trough right now as faras depression goes and My advice
would have been in the past,yeah, go ahead and do something
that you love.
And it's like, well, if youdon't love it anymore, it
doesn't help.
I really enjoy writing music inthis room when I know I'm

(19:22):
writing for an album and then Iknow I'm going to tour that
album afterwards.
And I know that that's kind of aprocess and it's kind of a
cyclical thing.
And now that's gone.
So I don't know what I would sayat this point.
I think it's probably good tospeak to somebody about it.
I mean, it's very difficult tojust sit and sort of hold
everything in.
and not feel like you want toexplode.
So in the past, now I feel likeI was almost cavalier about it

(19:49):
when I said, what you got to dois you got to find a positive
outlet that makes you feel good.
And then you find yourself in aposition where you're like,
well, that positive outlet forme, it doesn't even feel that
positive anymore.
But I just kind of just hold outhope for the future.
Because all of this eventuallywill end.
We know that.
We can't all be trapped at homeforever.

(20:11):
I'm just so sick and tired ofit.
I'm getting to a point now whereI'm just angry more than I'm
sad.
And it's sort of shifting fromwoe is me, self-pitying,
dreadful depression into more ofa defiant anger where I'm like,
I've had enough.

(20:32):
I've had enough of this.
I can't do this anymore.
Mentally, I can't do thisanymore.
And that's been a real turningpoint because it's kind of a
scary thing to think is I'mgetting to a point where I'm
feeling like I'm at my wit's endas far as how much I can take,
how much of this mental anguishI can continue to take without,

(20:52):
you know, snapping.
Again, maybe speaking about itor maybe writing it down in a
journal type thing.
I think that the main thing isgetting it out.
That's the thing.
It doesn't have to be throughcreative.
It could just be you can justwrite down, dear diary, today I
feel like crap.
And even that, and I might takemy own advice on that for a
change, but it's kind of like,even just this talking about it,

(21:15):
I can tell there's a whole bunchof stuff that wants to just come
out.

SPEAKER_01 (21:20):
You know, we do the best we can.
I think trying to provide afoundation, you know, speaking
of our album title, you know, ifyou want peace, prepare for war,
you got to build some confidencewithin yourself that, It's very
tough when you're by yourself atyour house.
Confidence is built amongstother kids.

(21:40):
And that's the scariest parttoday is when you lock them in a
room and say, you know, no moreschool and no more this.
And when they go out and they'rehanging out with their friends,
just like us, you know, we buildconfidence.
Okay, you know, I'm going to tryto be the best I can today.
And I'm going to try to do thisfor this person and, you know,
try to help out.

(22:01):
in some type of way.
When you're not allowed to dothat, your confidence level
falls down and then you get intodepression.
It's this downward spiral.
And I'm like Sean, I need tohave some truth when it comes to
what exactly is happening.
I can't live in fear.
I'm not really good with fear.
You know, growing up, I grew upsuper fast.

(22:22):
I want my daughter to grow upsuper slow.
You're a kid this long andyou're an adult your whole life.
So I want her to enjoy And thinkabout that.
There's going to be a year ortwo for all these kids that was
taken away from them.
And so that's going to, that'sgoing to have repercussions.
I know from, I grew up prettyfast and, you know, when my

(22:46):
parents got divorced, I wentinto this rage thing and, you
know, I kind of locked myselfaway from people.
And, and that's kind of how Iprobably got into music.
I just sat on my bed and playedall day, you know, every
instrument in the damn room, youknow, I just wanted to play
because I was so angry about thedivorce.
And then, and then, you know,rebelling against my parents and

(23:10):
I mean, moving out at superyoung age and, and stuff like
that.
I mean, I wonder, that's whathappened to me for that thing.
I wonder what's going to happento kids.
And I'm trying to make sure itdoesn't happen to my kids.
I'm sure as all the parents arethat you don't, they don't get
affected to some point wherethey're going to rebel.

(23:30):
They're going to take, they gotto point a finger.
Maybe they're going to point iton us for allowing this to
happen.
It's no one's fault.
that this disease came orwhatever.
And, but it's everything thatgoes along with it.
They hear stuff on the news, youknow, that's racist stuff.
And it's, you know, it's justkeeps piling on, piling on.
It's like, and I just try toreassure her that, you know,

(23:52):
listen in this house, we will,you know, we're fine.
You know, I miss me and your momare fine.
And there's, there's gotta besome, some solid foundation for
her to stand on.
The friendships you have withpeople, Make it a strong
foundation.
So when these turbulent timescome, you know that you have

(24:13):
something to stand on.
You don't have that.
You're not going to just falloff the earth.
And that's so important to letpeople know.
I think now is a good time toexpress these type of emotions.
I know we do within our band.
I know we do it.
I know all the families of thisband express how much they love
each other a little bit morethan they did before all this

(24:36):
happened.
And it's important to do that.
If you don't have that ear tolisten to people calmly, and
then just before speaking,understand the problem, you
know, maybe, you know, it's not,my daughter never tells me
exactly what's going on.
Never.
Now, Sloan, what's wrong?

(24:56):
Nothing.
Cool.
Let's start there.
So it's, it's, you kind of justgot to, okay, well, and just
listen at, a lot of times kidsare, kids are very, they're a
lot smarter and people ingeneral, they just want someone
to listen and know that, thattheir voices are heard.
And you can't just say that thisis just do this.

(25:19):
Us as men, we just fix, we wantto fix it so bad.
Well, you know, it's like, well,if we do this and this, that
doesn't really work with girls.
Sometimes, you know, it's bestif I, if I just listen to what
do you think about that?
You know, like, um, She'll be 14in like three weeks.
Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 (25:38):
Well, you know what?
Congratulations on raising herup to this point because, you
know, teenagers, they have theseraging hormones and there's so
many changes going on in theirlife.
And just to have a dad thatwants to listen, you know,
listening shows care.
And if you have somebody who notonly listens but responds to

(25:59):
what you say, it shows you that,you know what, you love me, you
care about me.
And oftentimes that could be theturning point to anyone that's
struggling with emotions or theway that they feel.
Yeah, sorry to

SPEAKER_05 (26:14):
interrupt you, but that also then allows them to
understand they're not alone.
That's the main thing.
I think that's the big thing foranybody who feels deeply
depression, the sadness, thefrustration, all that stuff.
If you feel like you're goingthrough it by yourself in a
house full of people, that just,I think, compounds the issue and

(26:35):
makes it much worse.

SPEAKER_00 (26:36):
Yeah, just that understanding and also knowing
that we don't all have to beperfect and happy and joyous and
show that image that people showon social media.
You know, the emotions arereally the colors of the
rainbow.
You know, it touches people in adifferent way.

(26:58):
So just any kind of way toexpress that emotion and get
either that, you know, you talkabout depression, you talk about
anger, we talk about hurt.
These are all things that reallyneed to get out in a healthy
way.
And, you know, one thing youmentioned, Sean, was something
that a lot of people do whenthey're hurt is and they don't

(27:21):
know where to put that emotionis that they will turn to drugs
and alcohol.
How, I mean, this will reallyhelp a lot of people because a
lot of people are in thatsituation.
What was it that was a turningpoint for you to kind of lift
you out of that and make yourealize that there's other
solutions?

SPEAKER_05 (27:43):
Well, it was a couple of things.
I'm 41 now, but I turned 40, youknow, obviously a year and a
half ago, almost two years ago.
And something changed then.
It was after we'd been on a verylong, very hard tour.
Lily was still a baby at thatpoint.
She was still kind of sleepingmore than she was awake at the
time.
But she was starting to get to apoint where she's starting to

(28:04):
babble and she's communicating.
And so it was like a real child.
It was a real person in there.
It wasn't just...
something that required 24 hoursupervision.
It was more of a, Oh, we canactually interact and we can
have, I can get responses.
And it was, you know, so shebecame this real person and
Corey was talking earlier abouthow we, we grew up fast and then
we spent 20 years not trying togrow up.

(28:25):
It's like we, we, we, we actedlike grown kids.
And, and I think we, we, we sortof, Certainly for me, I spent a
lot of time with very littleregard for other people's
feelings or through my ownactions.
I always thought everything Iwas doing was self-destructive,
and it certainly was, but it wasvery destructive for people
around me as well, and Iunderstand that now.

(28:47):
So I had been through twodecades of drug abuse, heavy
alcoholism, and I I mean, Istill drink and I probably still
drink a little bit too much, butI'm working on that.
But I think the thing was for mewas, okay, I don't want to die
anymore.
I no longer feel like I'minvincible.
I'm not invulnerable to theeffects of these things, the

(29:10):
poisons that I'm putting in mysystem all the time.
So with that, it was somethingabout turning 40.
It was something about the kid.
She's getting older and she'sjust becoming this real.
And also just because, you know,I put my wife through a lot of
hell at that point and justthrough my own the way I was
behaving was absolutelyshameful.
So all of these things came to,I came to realize, okay, for a

(29:34):
large part of my life, I didn'tthink like I deserved anything
good.
I didn't feel like I was allowedto have nice things or that
people, you know, I didn't feelthat people actually loved me.
I thought it was more that theywere just saying that so they
could have the lavish lifestylethat they otherwise wouldn't
have.
It was kind of, I've alwayswaited for the other shoe to
drop.
And it's a really strange way tolive.

(29:56):
But it's because when I wasyounger, my childhood wasn't
very full of love and bubbles.
It was, you know, my dad neversaid he loved me.
We knew he did, but he was, youknow, I think for Corey and I
both, we come from householdswhere positive emotion was a lot
less you know, evident thanthere was more of the negative
stuff.
Like my dad was, my dad was morefocused on his reputation about

(30:19):
what I was wearing.
Or if I was seen smoking acigarette, all hell would break
loose.
So, you know, he was, he wasreally concerned about that type
of his, the way people thoughtof him in, in, you know, in the
neighborhood basically.
And he didn't want to, he didn'twant to have the loser kid.
You know, then my mother, whenthey divorced when I was really
young, but she was always justabout telling me what a bad
person I was and how terrible Iam.

(30:41):
And really, if she did somethingthat was heinous to me, then she
would give me the silenttreatment until I apologized to
her for being offended to whatshe did to me.
It was this weird sort of...
So emotionally, I come withvery, very few tools to handle
any of this stuff because I wasnever taught any.
But I also know that whatthey...
I know what they...

(31:01):
it look like, but my knee jerkresponses to things are still
the way they used to be for it.
You know, I see a couple oftherapists and I'm working on it
and I'm, I'm trying to get, butyou know, I've, I've had a break
in therapy because the videotherapy to me is just weird.
I find it to be, if you'rehaving this really meaningful
and I love my, my therapist, butI would rather see him in person
than, than me sit here and sortof just stay at a screen.

(31:23):
It just doesn't feel like theconnections are the same.
It's, um, What I can say is forboth of us, for Corey and I, and
I'm assuming, is that we'velearned what we don't want to
be.
And we've learned what we don'twant a household to look like.
And we've learned that we wantthis to be a home, not just a
place where you crash every oncein a while.
And that gives you a differentperspective.

(31:45):
However, we still were raisedunder what would now be
considered by, I don't know,millennials to be archaic, that
we are men, that we are men.
And that's what we do is we dothe chop down the tree stuff.
We don't, but by the same token,I'll let my daughter paint my
nails because I don't care.
I'm very comfortable in mysexuality.
So it doesn't really bug me.

(32:05):
But I also understand that Inever really felt, my dad wasn't
what I would consider to be analpha male type guy.
It wasn't his profile.
He was a strong, strict guy athome, but he was never really,
he wasn't the guy that ifsomebody came up to you at a
dinner and said something rudeto your mom, he'd get up and
clock the guy.
Certainly, he never came acrossthat way.

(32:27):
He was very much more a demurekind of guy.
And I'm fairly similar, but I'mfiercely protective of my
family.
So I have a, you know, it's moreof a killer instinct, if you
will, as far as keeping thegirls safe.
Yeah.
But yeah, you try and learnwhat, you know, you can see in
your head what it's supposed tolook like.

(32:47):
Yet it's still very difficultfor me to break old patterns of
behavior that I've had for solong.
That if I'm approached about it,and often I think I disappoint
my wife because I respond as ifI'm being blamed for something.
And I'm not.
But my knee-jerk response is toreact in defense.

(33:08):
And my defense is offense.
And that's just kind of how Igrew up.
So I'm trying to break that.
So you learn a lot aboutyourself.
You certainly learn all yourflaws very quickly or your
weaknesses.
And so that's kind of what youhave.
That's on top of all of thisother stuff that's going on as
well.
But yeah, I mean, it is just thewhole goal is to keep them as

(33:30):
happy as possible.
And I often find that I willprefer for them to be okay and
not know that I'm not okaybecause I don't want to bring
them down.
I would rather suffer insilence, which isn't healthy,
obviously, but that's been theapproach.
And obviously, that's going tolead to times when emotional

(33:51):
outbursts because you've spentso much time.
You're talking about the fearand the rage and all those
things.
When we had the grief counselingright after my brother died, the
guy explained it like this.
He said, you know, imagine...
you're a bottle of, you're justthis glass jar.
And every time you have an angrythought or you have a fearful
thought, it's a marble thatdrops in that jar.
And if you don't address thatand you don't talk about it and

(34:13):
you don't try and resolve it inany kind of way, that jar is
going to fill up.
And at some point, the jar isgoing to overflow.
And that analogy just stuck withme forever.
And it makes a lot of sense tome.
And when we did the whole griefthing, we're just trying to get
some of those marbles out ofthat can right now, out of this
jar, so that nobody has anyoverflow.

(34:35):
And that's kind of thechallenge, really, is to make
that clear to people.
our kids and our partners.
And I haven't been very good atthat as a partner.
And I need to work on that.
And when it's with a kid, itseems to be easier somehow
because the role is different.
Your role is to be the teacher.

(34:55):
You're not, you know, you cansort of, that's a clean slate.
You can set the pace.
You can set the guidelines forhow to deal with these things,
even though you know you werereally terrible at them
yourself.
In practice, you can pass on theinformation and work on it on
breaking your own behaviorpatterns separately.

(35:15):
But I know that I respond poorlyto certain ways of being spoken
to.
And what I will do is teach mydaughter that if she feels a
certain way, I never want to bethe parent that makes her feel
like she can't talk to me aboutanything.
If it's a good conversation, ifit's a terrible conversation, it
doesn't matter because it's notgoing to stop me loving her.

(35:37):
And I always want you to knowthat, again, that she is safe in
this house.
She's protected and loved.
And those are the things thatare the most important.
And then that sort of all comesback around to we can't provide.
You know, we don't have ourroles that we play in our lives
going right now.
So that's, again, now we feel, Imean, I feel anxious all the

(36:01):
time.
And, again, I'm trying to do allof this and hold myself
together.
And that's becoming more andmore difficult.
But yeah, so I stopped drugs.
I don't do drugs anymore.
Again, I probably shouldn'tdrink as much as I drink, but at
least I acknowledge that it'sthere.
I am actively taking steps tochange that.

(36:22):
Those were coping mechanismsbecause when they said two weeks
to slow the roll or lower thecurve or whatever, We all
thought two weeks.
I can do two weeks.
Cool.
Let's hit this.
Let's do dance parties.
Let's do movie night.
Let's have popcorn on the couch.
And then it's a month.
And you're like, well, we can doanother couple weeks, man.
It's not a big deal.
We'll be back in two weeks.
And then it's, no, no, no.

(36:43):
Now it's another two months.
And then you start going, well,huh.
Well, we've built every singlepuzzle that is available on
Amazon at this point.
We did.
We have a stack of puzzles thatwe bought.
We have played every game.
We have, you know, we have...
We've opened every bath bombthat's got a little toy inside.
It becomes, now you just, it'sno longer just a distraction.

(37:05):
Now it's becoming almost like adesperation thing to find things
to stimulate you.
I think what I would love forour leaders to know is that
while they still get to go towork every day and reign over us
as Lord Supreme, I just feellike there's a real human
consequence here.
And you've seen that in spikesin suicides, child abuse,

(37:28):
domestic abuse, animal abuse,drug addiction, drug overdose,
alcoholism.
You've seen all of those spikebecause everyone's just
desperate at this point.
It's no longer just entertainyourself for a couple of weeks.
It's now, I'm desperate.
I don't know what else to do.

SPEAKER_00 (37:45):
Well, yeah, that's the challenge is really being
able to dig deep and find...
Like, how are we going to acceptthis and possibly do it for the
long term, but until it's safefor our families to be outdoors?
You know, I just wanted to saythat, you know, Solutions is

(38:07):
part of the podcast.
If listeners want to go tocheckyourheadpodcast.com, we
have all kinds of resources,often free and affordable, like
telehealth, online supportgroups.
places where you can call if youneed to talk about and vent.
I mean, venting is reallyimportant right now because
there is a lot of frustration,right?

(38:28):
Sometimes you just want to go,oh my gosh, you know, I just
want things to go back tonormal.
But Sean, thank you for formentioning counseling as one of
your ways.
And also like the self-awarenessand constantly working on your
relationships.
Corey, what are some of thethings that you've been doing to
kind of as solutions to getthrough this and for your mental

(38:53):
health in general?

SPEAKER_01 (38:54):
For me, it's, you know, it's music.
Through music, we are allowedto, you provoke emotions and,
you know, I love music.
one of the greatest part aboutSean's lyrics, I love his lyrics
for, he's truthful, you know?
So I think when we're on stageand I'm looking at the crowd and
they're singing every word, Imean, they're expressing

(39:16):
themselves, you know, they'regetting it out, you know, that's
not happening.
And so like he was sayingearlier with endorphins, I have
to find, I'm more of aself-inflictive kind of guy.
So that's why I do the jujitsu,And I actually hate it, you
know?
I mean, to be honest with you,it's not cool to get smashed on

(39:40):
for an hour, you know?
I've got so many small injuriesgoing on right now.
Like before we did the livething, my hands, I couldn't even
make a fist.
So I had to stop jujitsu forlike two weeks before we do it,
before we go, just for my handsto heal.
It is a love-hate relationship,but in that moment when you were

(40:05):
out of breath and in thatstruggle of fight or flight,
it's self-inflicting, but at thesame time, it's exercise.
I call it exercise.
It's the only thing that's kindof, when I walk out of it, I'm
calm.

(40:26):
I think Sean's When he told mehe was going to therapy, I
looked at him as if he was braverather than, and had courage to
do that where I'm over heretrying to do jujitsu and stuff
like that, you know, deal withmy own way.
No one likes to go to thedoctor.
You know, I go to the doctor ifI have stitches and that's, I

(40:48):
need stitches.
And even then I'm looking forduct tape or something to close
it.
So, I mean, no one wants to, andthis is our outside.
No, our inside, our physical andour mental, it's just so
important.
It should be a thing of honor tosay, you know, hey, I'm going to
get some help.
And everybody said, man, it'sawesome.

(41:09):
My family, we've gone throughsome stuff like that.
And you support each other.
It takes courage to do this,have the courage to do it and
support the people that want todo it without putting this
weird, thing around them likesomething's wrong with them now
so you can't hang out with themkids can be cruel you know stuff
like that i mean these dayseverybody's waiting for oh

(41:33):
there's a weakness let's pointat it you know it's and we've
got to get over that we reallygot to get over that and and and
kind of get back to uh helpingeach other and when when someone
is down if they need to do if ineed to do jiu-jitsu nobody
sean's not gonna make fun of mefor Maybe I should be made fun
of a little bit, but he knowsthat's what helps me, you know?

(41:56):
So, you know, he wouldn't makefun of me.
Things that are going to helphim, things that would help Del,
fishing, therapy for him,probably that's why he's fishing
24-7, you know?
You know, Johnny, everybody'sgot their thing in this band
that helps them get through it.
You know, I think we all kind ofdid a little thing trying to

(42:17):
share with you guys, What'sgoing on with us?
How are we able to get throughit?
But if people do needprofessional help, that takes a
lot of courage and you should belifted up into a place of, wow,
man, that's real powerful of youhaving that courage to do that

(42:40):
rather than anything else.

SPEAKER_00 (42:42):
Well, you know, that's great that you say that
because it kind of ties into theslogan of the podcast, which is
be brave, ask for help, and bepersistent in finding the mental
help that you need.
Because everybody does havetheir own solution, and it's not
a one-size-fits-all, right?
I mean, everybody finds what isgoing to help them.

(43:03):
whether it's therapy orlistening or medication or
jujitsu.
And, you know, we all kind ofhave to, you know, see what's
going to work for us and also,you know, try to help our loved
ones.
So thank you so much forspeaking out and telling your
stories.
I've always learned somethingnew every time I speak with, you

(43:26):
know, great musicians likeyourself.
But closing up, is thereanything else that you'd like to
say about mental health or aboutyour Amazing Dan Seether?

SPEAKER_05 (43:35):
Well, there's not much to report on the Seether
front right now.
But the general idea that createthe environment where the sense
is that nobody is alone.
And that's really it.
I know everyone's, we're all inthis together.
That's just sloganeering andit's great.
But if you really apply thatphilosophy, we in this nuclear

(43:58):
family are all in this together.
And then by default, theextended friends and family,
that everybody knows thateverybody here can lean on the
other ones in the room.
That's the most important thing,I think.
Because then as soon as you takeaway that isolated feeling and
that sort of sense of you've gotto beat this by yourself, that

(44:19):
makes things a little biteasier.
If you just don't feel likeyou're carrying the world on
your shoulders and you have toput on a brave face the whole
time because...
you don't want to show anyweakness.

SPEAKER_01 (44:33):
Yeah, like you were saying earlier with Instagram,
look at how happy we are.
You don't have to puteverything's perfect all the
time.
It's okay to say, man, I'mhaving a bad day or just every
now and then, you know, not howperfect Because none of it is.
None of us are and or ever willbe.

(44:55):
So it's kind of, you know, beyourself.
And that's the hardest thing todo for everyone is truly be
themselves and expressthemselves that way.

SPEAKER_05 (45:05):
And get off the social media.

SPEAKER_01 (45:08):
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (45:11):
Well, thank you so much, Sean and Corey of Seether.
Really loved having you on theCheck Your Head podcast.

SPEAKER_05 (45:18):
Thank you very much for having us.
I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 (45:20):
Next up, we have Dr.
Dan Reidenberg, the ExecutiveDirector of Save.org, who's a
top expert on suicideprevention.
Dr.
Dan has developed best practicesfor suicide prevention and
mental health for variouscompanies and for the media, and
has won numerous accolades,including the Service to

(45:41):
Suicidology Award.
Dr.
Dan gives us a lowdown on how torecognize suicidal behavior and
what we can do to help.
I wanted to start with somethingreally important, but also kind
of basic, which is what are someof the facts you could share
regarding suicide?

SPEAKER_02 (46:00):
Sure.
Well, I mean, there's some bignumbers and there's some really
sad numbers.
We lose about 800,000 people ayear to suicide.
That's one death every 40seconds somewhere in the world.
So this is a major public healthcrisis.
In the United States, the lastyear we have data from the CDC
is in 2018, and we had over47,000 people lost to suicide.

(46:24):
That means we're losing oneAmerican about every 10 minutes.
Somewhat more scary for a lot ofpeople is that about every 28
seconds, someone attempts totake their life.
Every 28 seconds.
And as you just mentioned, thisreally cuts across the lifespan.
We have young people that reallystruggle with emotions and

(46:45):
feelings and their thoughts.
And that continues throughadolescence.
It goes through adulthood andeven to seniors.
Our first real big spike insuicide occurs right after
people graduate high school andgo into college.
So somewhere in that 18 to 20range.
But if we actually look at thenumbers of suicide in our
country, the largest group ofpeople that we're losing to

(47:08):
suicide are adults.
In our country, suicide occursin more rural areas, states
where there's fewer access toresources, more access to
firearms, less access totherapy.
Those kinds of things increasethe risk.
So states like Montana, Wyoming,Nevada, where it's far more

(47:31):
rural, we have more suicides.
But that doesn't mean we can'tpay, we shouldn't be paying
attention to suicide.
other places.
We have suicide in major citiesand urbanized areas as well.
We also know that more males dieby suicide than females three
times as often, but femalesattempt suicide almost four
times as often.

(47:51):
So we know this cuts acrossages.
It cuts across demographics ofwhere people live.
Money, what their income is,doesn't matter.
Their gender doesn't matter.
We know that Both males andfemales die.
We do know that sexualorientation plays into suicide,
that LGBTQ individuals thinkabout suicide more, and they

(48:13):
have more attempts at suicide.
But thus, we don't know.
So we know that this is a reallyprevalent issue.
It is a public health crisis.
It has been for decades now.
And it's something that weabsolutely all need to be a part
of.

SPEAKER_00 (48:28):
Thank you so much for letting us know by phone by

(49:00):
computer so we do have a biglist for people that are not
sure where to turn to

SPEAKER_02 (49:08):
That's great.
It's really important.
And as technology evolves,that's helping.
We have the Crisis Text Line.
So we have the National SuicidePrevention and Lifeline.
But for those that don't want totalk to somebody or are too
embarrassed or afraid of whatthey would say or how they would
go, they can text.
They can text hello to 741741,and they'll be able to have a

(49:28):
texting conversation.
You can actually use socialmedia to find groups and support
online, whether it's on Facebookor other social media platforms.
where you can find goodresources that can really help
you through these crises.

SPEAKER_00 (49:44):
Yes.
The next question is, what aresome of the warning signs or the
behavior of somebody who can bea suicide risk?

SPEAKER_02 (49:53):
So we know that there are risk factors that put
people at greater risk of dyingby suicide.
Some of those risk factors mightbe family history of mental
health issues, family history ofchemical health issues, family
history of suicide.
Risk factors are if somebodyloses their job or gets kicked
out of school or has legalproblems.
These are things that put peopleat greater risk of suicide.

(50:16):
Conversely, we have what'scalled protective factors.
And protective factors are thosethings that are like buffers.
Those are things that help keepus from going down that path.
So a protective factor might be,for example, connections to
family, connections to faith,connections to your community.
All kinds of connections make adifference.
If you have good access tomedical care and good health

(50:37):
care, that's a buffer.
So we have these things calledrisks and protective factors.
As you mentioned, we havewarning signs.
And warning signs are a littledifferent in the sense that
these are the things that weknow that people that have died
by suicide have done in the pastprior to their death.
The ones that are most importantthat we pay attention to are
number one, anybodycommunicating their intent to

(50:59):
die.
Now, most people don't just comeout and say, I'm going to go
kill myself tomorrow at thistime, at this place, and this is
how I'm going to do it.
It's often far more disguisedthan that.
It's far more indirect.
It might be a statement like, myfamily would be better off
without me, or my team would bebetter off without me, or I'm
just a burden on everybody'splate.
Those kinds of statements aresuicidal kinds of

(51:21):
communications.
We need to pay attention tothose just as much as we do
those direct statements that dohappen, just not as frequently.
So anybody communicating theirintent is a number one warning
sign.
Now the second and equallyimportant warning sign has to do
with looking for a way to die.
We know that those people whodied by suicide looked for a way

(51:44):
to die.
They might have searched onlinefor methods on how to take their
life.
They might have gone aroundtheir house and looked for
whether it was a weapon orsomething sharp or a rope or a
place where they could do this.
They might have looked formedicines that they could take.
All different kinds of ways todie by suicide, of course.
But they somehow searched outand looked for a way to die.

(52:06):
So if we have any idea, anyinclination, any observation of
somebody communicating theirintent and looking for a way to
die.
Those are the two primarywarning signs.
The next set of warning signsthat we really want people to
pay attention to are statements.
Statements that somebody mightmake such as, I feel like I'm
just a burden.

(52:26):
There's no hope for me anymore.
I don't really have a future infront of me.
There's no purpose for me to bearound any longer.
I feel really trapped byeverything and there's no way
out.
These kinds of statementscombined with some of those risk
factors, not having enoughprotective factors, maybe a
mental health issue, maybe someother problems in their life,

(52:49):
that's when we know that thesewarning signs really, really set
off a triggering set of events.

SPEAKER_00 (52:55):
Okay, so one of the other things that I wanted to
get your thoughts on is thatoftentimes, you know, there are
changes during our life orphysical disorders that could
cause depression or can causechanges in our behavior that can
lead to suicide.
I know like in the teens,there's a lot of hormonal

(53:18):
changes that can happen evenlater in life.
And then physical disorders likethyroid disease that can also
trigger depression or anxiety,heart disease.
And so people should also...
consider that if they're goingthrough something physically, a
physical change, that it couldalso affect their mental health.

SPEAKER_02 (53:42):
You know, I should bring you on the speaking
circuit and you could talk todoctors and hospitals because
that is absolutely true.
And one of the main thingsthat's missed, not just by the
general public, but by primarycare physicians, nurses that are
in clinics and in hospitals, isthat we don't recognize often
enough Quick enough or in waysthat we should be asking about

(54:04):
are medical conditions that canimpact on our mental health.
And you mentioned a lot of them.
And they were all right.
Let me just add another one.
Post-traumatic stress disorderafter you experience the trauma.
And it could be a recent trauma.
It could be a trauma thathappened many years ago.
We have postpartum depression.
That happens for some women.

(54:25):
So we have a number of thesedifferent kinds of things that
happen to us biologically thatare either related to a medicine
that we might be taking that's aprescribed medication.
For example, there are manymedications that are prescribed
that are steroids and they mimicdifferent kinds of mental health
issues.
There are other medications, asyou were talking about, a

(54:46):
thyroid problem that can eithercause depression or other mental
health kinds of behaviors.
So We have to really, really payattention to that as family
members, as caregivers, asfriends, as coworkers, and
definitely as medicalprofessionals that there are
these things that happen to usinternally that can really

(55:08):
affect our mental status.

SPEAKER_00 (55:11):
So once we start to hear warning signs and little
behaviors of somebody that wefeel is a suicide risk, what are
some of the things that we cando to help those people?
or to guide them in the rightdirection?

SPEAKER_02 (55:25):
So there's some simple things that everybody can
do because we know that forabout half of the people that
make a final decision that theywant to die by suicide and they
carry it out or carry out theact or attempt at suicide, it's
less than 10 minutes.
That means it doesn't evenmatter if you live in New York

(55:46):
City.
Not enough time to get to adoctor, not enough time to get
to a hospital.
What that means is thatEverybody has to know some of
these warning signs.
Everybody's got to be able to doa few things.
First thing is we need to knowthat it's okay to ask about
suicide.
Most people still are veryafraid to ask about suicide.
They think that if they askabout it is going to lead

(56:06):
somebody down that path or it'sgoing to make them want to do it
more.
That's going to put an idea intheir head that wasn't there
before.
We have a wealth of data andresearch that tells us that
isn't true.
And in fact, The opposite can betrue.
If you ask somebody who might bethinking about suicide, you can
actually reduce their level ofdistress.
You can reduce their level ofanxiety.

(56:28):
So we need to know that it isokay to ask, and we need to know
how to ask the question.
So that's the second thing.
If you're worried aboutsomebody, if you're concerned,
if you have a gut feeling thatsomething isn't right, there's
been a change in behavior,there's been a change in things
that they're saying, there'sjust a change in their
character, and you're worriedabout it, and you decide you're

(56:50):
going to ask about it, that's agood thing.
You must ask the question with afatality component to it.
If you're just not sure what'sgoing on, if you just think
something might be going on, butyou're not sure exactly what it
is, it's okay to start aconversation with somebody.
How are you doing?
It doesn't seem like you've beenyourself lately.
Are there things going on thatare really troubling you?

(57:13):
Are you really strugglingthrough?
You can ask these kind of morebroad questions just to kind of
see where their mental healthand what their thinking is at.
Their emotions, that's okay.
Let's go back now.
If you are concerned thatsomebody really might be at risk
of suicide, We've got to ask thequestion.
It's got to be very direct.
In doing so, we've got to makesure that we say something about

(57:35):
death or dying in thatstatement.
And the reason for that is ifsomebody is actually thinking
about death or dying by theirown hand, we don't ask about
that.
We're going to miss where theirbrain is at.
We've got to be really clearwith them.
Is this what you're thinking?
Would you just rather be dead?
Do you want to live any longer?
You just don't like lifeanymore?

(57:56):
That's okay.
Okay, so now that you've asked,the next thing is to listen.
And we need to make sure thatwhen we're listening to people,
we spend more time listeningthan we do talking.
I know I'm talking a lot, but weneed to listen more.
We need to listen for thingslike, Do they think about the
future?
Do they have any hope for thefuture or hope for getting

(58:19):
better?
Have they ever been in treatmentbefore?
Has it ever worked for thembefore or not?
Were they compliant withtreatment, taking their meds or
seeing their doctors, all ofthose kinds of things?
We need to think, we need tolisten for, do they have
specific reasons to live?
Like, I want to get to thisgraduation or I want to see my
kids have children or I want toget to my wedding date or my

(58:39):
retirement, whatever it is,because those specific reasons
to live are the kinds of thingsthat we can actually use to have
a conversation with them.
And that can deescalate peoplevery quickly.
We want to make sure that we'relistening non-judgmentally.
We don't want to judge somebodywho's thinking about suicide or
is even struggling with mentalhealth issues.
Whatever their thoughts are,whatever their feelings are,

(59:01):
they're theirs.
And We need to acknowledge themand recognize them and say,
look, I may not understand whatyou're going through.
I may not be able to feel whatyou're feeling right now, but
that doesn't mean I don't care.
And it doesn't mean I can'tsupport you.
And it doesn't mean I don't wantto be here for you because I do.
So we want to listen forspecific things.

(59:23):
We want to make sure that wereflect that back to them.
And then we want to respond tothem.
We want to make sure that theyknow that we're going to be
there to support them.
We want to make sure that theyknow that there's resources out
there.
The ones that you mentioned, theones that are on your website,
those are are the kinds ofthings we want to give to
somebody who has that tunnelvision that doesn't know that
there are alternatives andoptions.

(59:44):
The more we can give that tosomeone who's struggling, the
more they're going to believe inus and the more that they're
going to want to have aconversation with us.
Now, one more thing that'sreally, really important here.
If you're having a conversationwith someone and they're really
struggling and they may say, youknow, I've thought about it.
I wouldn't ever do it.

(01:00:06):
but I've thought about it.
And you know they're talkingabout suicide.
Make sure you don't leave themalone.
We know that if you leavesomebody alone that just
discloses this and you say,okay, this is really important.
You and I need to talk aboutthis.
Let's meet in an hour.
Let's meet in two hours.
Tragically, sometimes that twohours is too late.

(01:00:26):
And it increases their shamearound this when you put that
off.
If somebody's talking to youabout a life or death kind of
thing, It's no different than ifthey're having a heart attack.
You don't say, I'm going to getback to you and perform CPR in a
couple hours, or I'm going toget you to a doctor in a couple
hours.
We shouldn't do that hereeither.
We need to be ready to say,look, if that's what you're

(01:00:48):
thinking about, we need to talkto somebody else right now.
Let's get you to a professional.
Let's talk to somebody at theNational Lifeline.
Let's get you connected tosomebody.
I'm not going to leave you aloneuntil we know that everything's
going to be safe.
Those are really importantthings to do if you know
somebody's at risk of suicide.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:05):
Yeah, and I want people to know, too, that it may
not even be a loved one that hascare and compassion for you.
It could be somebody in asupport group, you know, because
there are people out there thatfeel like they don't have
anyone, you know, that they candepend on.
But people do care out there,and I do think that those
questions show care andcompassion.
Oftentimes, just that feelingcan help somebody really rethink

(01:01:31):
ending their life.
The other thing is depression.
as an example, I mean, othermood disorders as well, one of
the symptoms, it can be fixatingon suicide as part of the
disorder.
So if somebody is going throughthat and is scared that they're
thinking this way, it's part ofthe disorder.

(01:01:52):
So, you know, once you're backinto balance, you know, you may
not have those thoughts anymore.
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:00):
That's exactly right.
There are a number of symptomsof these various illnesses.
Obviously, most people thinkabout depression, and depression
obviously has a depressed moodwhere you're unhappy and you're
very sad.
You might be very tearful.
You might have physical symptomssuch as you don't want to eat or
you eat too much or your sleepis off.

(01:02:21):
Either you sleep too much or toolittle or it's a very distressed
kind of sleep.
You might have no energy.
You might have no drive, nointerest in anything any longer.
You might not enjoy anythinglonger.
But you're exactly right.
Some people that live withdepression do think about
suicide.
It is one of the symptoms of it.
Not everybody does, but somepeople do.

(01:02:43):
We want to check things out.
We want to make sure we'reasking the right questions and
keeping people safe and gettingthem through the crisis.
And most of the time, it is truethat suicide Anybody can be a
support system.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:59):
Well, you know, one thing that Sean mentioned when
he lost his brother Eugene tosuicide was that I'm sure
there's like an aftermath ofemotions that come with that.
You know, along with, of course,incredible grief, you know,
there could be guilt or remorse.
You know, I could have donesomething.
And he mentioned that he wentthrough grief counseling.

(01:03:20):
You know, can you tell me moreabout grief counseling and maybe
what you could say to somebody,you know, if they're feeling any
guilt or remorse about losing aloved one to suicide?

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:30):
Yeah, so this is one of those really kind of tricky
and sensitive things.
In our country, we don't dealwith death very well.
We don't really prepare peoplefor it.
We don't do a lot to supportpeople through it.
You have this grieving periodthat's kind of an active
grieving period for maybe aweek, couple weeks, maybe a

(01:03:51):
month at the most, and then Yes,you grieve with your family for
maybe a year, but then it's timeto move on.
That's really kind of, Prettystandard thought for most
people.
And yet we know when it comes tosuicide, there are some things
that are similar in that andsome things that are very
dissimilar in that.
Suicide occurs most often in thehomes.

(01:04:12):
It doesn't most often occur inhospitals as most deaths do.
Suicide involves a violent actand can be very traumatic to
see, which is not something thatmost people experience when they
experience seeing somebody who'sdead and deceased.
There's lots of unfinished kindsof unresolved things that happen

(01:04:33):
that don't necessarily happenwith other kinds of deaths.
It can be very sudden andunexpected, opposed to some
other deaths that people knowmight happen.
So there's similarities anddifferences there.
The main difference is forpeople grieving a loss of a
loved one to suicide.
And I have personallyexperienced, I lost a cousin of

(01:04:57):
mine.
I lost a very close friend ofmine to suicide.
So I kind of know this from alot of different perspectives.
When it comes to suicide, thereis this unending why that other
deaths don't have.
Suicide loss survivors live withthis Why, why, why?
That doesn't ever go away.
Coupled with that is, as youmentioned, guilt.

(01:05:19):
Guilt and shame.
There isn't guilt in other typesof death, but for suicide, guilt
around how come they didn't callme?
How come they didn't reach outto me?
Was there something I did beforethat prevented that?
They tried to call me and it wasthe middle of the night and I
just figured I'd get back tothem in the morning, but I had

(01:05:40):
no idea this was going tohappen.
The last conversation we haddidn't go very well.
Is it my fault that they decidedto die?
All of these things arereactions, response.
Well, you know, Sean

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:07):
mentioned that after his brother died that he sort of
went through a period where hewanted to shut down those
emotions, which is so difficultto deal with, but he used drugs
and alcohol, which of course gothim into trouble with drugs and
alcohol.
But with the counseling, it'slike a healthy way to get those

(01:06:29):
feelings and emotions out anddoing it in a way which
hopefully we can get beyond someof the grief and kind of get
back to life and have ahealthier perspective on a
really terrible loss.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:45):
Yep.
Males tend not to be willing totalk and be open as we would
like them to and need them to bewhen they're grieving.
So yes, we do see people turn toalcohol and prescription meds to
get through the pain.
What happened to Sean and withhis brother is a horrible

(01:07:05):
tragedy.
that has taken Sean in differentdirections, not only personally,
but professionally, obviously,with the band, with the music
that he's written, with theconcert and event that he
started, the movement that he'sbecome involved with.
And he's tried to take a really,really horrible tragedy and turn

(01:07:27):
it into something positive.
And that's not positive that hisbrother is gone because he would
do anything.
He'd give it all up.
to have his brother back.
But he wants to turn it to apositive so that nobody else has
to suffer the way that hesuffered.
John's a really incredible guyand he has this incredibly huge

(01:07:48):
heart and he wants people to bewell and he wants people to know
that they don't have to gothrough this alone.
And so by creating the RiseAbove Festival, by writing music
about this, by supporting fansthat reach out to him all of the
time with their personal storiesor that he meets while he's on

(01:08:08):
tour.
This is how Sean has found a waythrough some of the grief.
But the truth is, it never goesaway.
And it's always there for him.
It's tattooed on his hands.
It is part of who Sean is now.
And it is really this legacythat he is leaving in his
brother's memory that has becomethis really huge worldwide

(01:08:32):
phenomenon called the rise abovefest that and song rise above is
an anthem for for suicideprevention and saving lives

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:42):
i love that song it's one of my favorite see
their songs it's got so muchheart to it and so much emotion
and just you know you couldreally feel you know just the
words coming through to you

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:53):
It is my favorite Seether song.
I tear up every time I hear thatsong live or I hear it through
my computer because I knowwhat's behind it.
And what's behind it is Sean andthe loss of his brother and how
hard that's been on him to notget to have his brother in his

(01:09:16):
life any longer.
And to think about, you know,Could he have done something
different?
I wish something else would havehappened.
And how that lingers for Sean.
It doesn't mean that Sean hasn'tgone on and continued to
function in his life.
And that's a really importantmessage that we want everybody
to know that life does continueon.

(01:09:36):
It's hard.
Suicide grief doesn't go away.
It changes over time.
But Sean is a really greatexample of how you can survive
through the worst possiblehorrible experience in your life
of losing someone that close toyou in this way and get others

(01:09:56):
to support you and partner withan organization like Save to
say, look, this is horrible.
This just sucks what happened tome.
I don't want it to happen toanybody else.
And if I can do one thing toinspire somebody to say, I'm
going to reach out for help,that's what I want to do with my
pain.
And he's done that better thananybody else.

(01:10:18):
in the industry.
And if we can all be involvedand we can be honest and
compassionate with those thatare out there that might be
struggling, they're gonna openup to us.
And if they open up to us, it'san opportunity to save a life.
And anytime we can do that, makethat connection and save
somebody's life, We know it hasripple effects, not just for

(01:10:41):
that person and their family andtheir work or their school,
their friends, their community,the world.
It changes the world whensomebody stays alive through a
really horrible crisis that theymight be in.
And that all just takes a littlebit of time and a little bit of
compassion and a little bit ofwillingness to stand up and say,
I'm going to be there for you.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:03):
A big thank you to our featured guests, the great
Sean Morgan and Corey Lowry ofthe band Seether, and Dr.
Dan Reidenberg of Save.org.
For more information on Seether,to purchase their new album,
Seaweeds, Puckham, Parabellum,visit seether.com.
For more information on the RiseAbove Fest, visit
riseabovefest.com.

(01:11:24):
And for more information on Dr.
Daniel Reidenberg and SuicideAwareness, Voices of Education,
visit save.org.
And we'll close out our episodewith a clip from Cedar's hit
single, Dangerous.
If you enjoyed today's CheckYour Head episode, share it with
your friends and be our friendson social media at
CheckYourHeadPodcast.
Leave us a review or support uswith a donation at

(01:11:46):
CheckYourHeadPodcast.com.
So until next time, be brave,ask for help, and be persistent
in finding the mental help thatyou need.

SPEAKER_04 (01:12:09):
The

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:32):
Check Your Head Podcast is kindly supported by
DBSA San Gabriel Valley, LemonTree Studios, and and Blue Oak
Mastering and Podcasting in LosAngeles.
Visit our website atcheckyourheadpodcast.com where
you'll find free and affordableresources for mental health and
where you can also support us bydonating or subscribing to our
Patreon page.

(01:12:53):
Thank you so much for liking andfollowing us on Facebook and
Instagram at Check Your HeadPodcast.
And the Check Your Head Podcastis sponsored by a 501c3
nonprofit, so all donations aretax deductible.
Thank you so much for listeningand for your support.

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