Tower of Power (Emilio Castillo) "Reboot": Drug & Sex Addiction Recovery with Tim Ringgold (Music Therapist, Sonic Recovery)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:00):
Welcome to the Check Your Head podcast, the podcast
where notable musicians come andshare their mental health
stories, their experiences, andmost importantly, their
solutions.
I'm your host, Mari Fong, amusic journalist and life coach
for musicians, and we're stillin the midst of the coronavirus
pandemic and racial protests,and with that can come some

(00:24):
incredible stress.
Our lockdowns have causedloneliness and boredom, which
has increased the use of alcoholand drugs, and this can really
be a slippery slope.
There are so many greatmusicians who've slid down that
slope, such as Jim Morrison,Jimi Hendrix, Elvis Presley,
Kurt Cobain, Amy Winehouse, TomPetty, Whitney Houston and

(00:46):
Prince, and they all lost theirlives to it.
So today we'll be focusing onthe addictions that are often
tied to mental health issues andhow to get healthy help.
So whether it's alcohol,cocaine, heroin, pot, sex,
eating, or whatever the drug ofchoice may be, we have an
interview today with a musicianthat admits to taking and doing

(01:09):
all of the above and almost losthis life, not just once, but a
number of times before finallygetting clean and sober.
He's the co-founder and bandleader of one of the legendary
R&B bands of our time, one withan iconic horn section with hits
like You're Still a Young Manand So Very Hard to Go, which
were always favorites back inthe day and today.

(01:32):
Our special guest is EmilioCastillo of the band Tower of
Power, who will be sharing hisstory, his solutions, and a new
song from their album calledStep Up, which dropped in March
of 2020.
Next, we'll have our expertinterview with music therapist,
TEDx speaker, and author of thebook, Sonic Recovery, Harness

(01:54):
the Power of Music to StaySober, Tim Ringgold, who'll
share his solution of usingmusic as therapy.
So let's start with the greatEmilio Castillo and his story of
addiction, mental health, andrecovery.

SPEAKER_01 (02:09):
I've hired and fired countless great musicians and
musicians And some have quit andleft to go on to other things.
And I'm proud to say that I havea good relationship with every
one of them, even today.
All these years later, I stay intouch with all those guys, and
they're all great friends.

(02:29):
And I have very cherishedmemories of all those musicians
that went in and out.
And people ask me that questionall the time.
What is it that helps you keepit all together?
My patented answer these days isGod did it, I just showed up.
Because the first 20 years of mycareer, which we'll get into a

(02:51):
little bit later, I made everymistake I could possibly make.
But God had a different plan forme.
And around 1988, I was broughtto my knees behind addiction.
to drugs and alcohol.
And I got sober that year.

(03:12):
And then within a year, mypartner, Doc, whenever he shares
at any recovery meetings, healways likes to say, I'm glad
Emilio's here tonight because hemade my life a living hell the
last year of my drinking andusing.
So I leaned on him pretty hardafter I got sober.
And a year later, he got sober.
And I think that the two of us,being the main members of the

(03:36):
band, getting sober and settingthat bar for sobriety and a
spiritual path really sort ofset the direction of the band
for the next 30 years.
And along the way, learned a lotof things in sobriety.

SPEAKER_03 (03:54):
Well, I'm so glad.
Thank you so much for...
admitting that and talking aboutit because so many other
musicians and people in generalare also, you know, have fallen
into addiction for whateverreasons.
What do you think led to youraddiction?

SPEAKER_01 (04:11):
Well, you know, now that I'm on this side of it, I
can look back and, you know, Iknow a lot of the triggers that
drove me.
But, you know, when I started todrink and use, It literally was
like a light switch went off.
The very first time I drank andused, I drank everything there

(04:32):
was, threw up, passed out, saidI'm never going to do it again.
And then a year later, Docactually showed me how to drink
rum and Coke and smoke pot.
And we started to write songs.
And then I learned to controlall that and keep it going.
But I mean, even from the firsttime that I got loaded with him,

(04:54):
I wanted to do everything I wasand, you know, start again the
next day and do it all again.
And I did that.
Literally, I blinked my eyes and20 years went by.
And along the way, differenttypes of drugs and pretty soon
hard narcotics came in.
And, you know, I can tell you mystory.
It's a progression for sure, youknow.

(05:20):
But if I look back on it, Fromthis side, being sober a lot of
years, I realized that I hadabandonment issues.
I remember when I was 14, I fellin love with this beautiful
girl.
I mean, even my father was like,you did good, son.
And then out of the blue, webroke up.

(05:41):
It really devastated me.
I remember my brother sort ofcomforting me through that.
And then at the time, I think Iwas...
not quite 16 but you know i inmy relationships throughout my
life afterward whenever i wouldbe in a relationship and it
would break up i would havethose feelings you know that i

(06:04):
got that first time when webroke up and uh when i was 17
just before i turned 18 yearsold You know, I had the band.
Doc was in the band.
We were aiming for the FillmoreWest.
I was serious, you know.
My mother says, we're moving toDetroit.
You know, my parents hadfinancial issues all their

(06:28):
lives.
And so one of the main reasonswe wound up in the Bay Area was
because back in those days, ifyou had a lot of bills, you
could move to the other side ofthe country and the bills were
gone.
You know, there were nocomputers anymore.
or nothing like that.
So that's what they did.
They moved to the Bay Area andthey lived there for a few
years.
And pretty soon they had a lotof bills again.

(06:50):
I'm 17 years old.
I'm really passionate about thisband that I have.
And they say, we're moving toDetroit.
The next thing I know, I'm animmature 17-year-old.
I had never lived on my own.
I had never had a job.
All I did was play music.
And next thing I knew, they weregone.

(07:11):
You know, and that's right whenI started to drink and use, and
I stuffed those feelings downwith the alcohol and drugs.

SPEAKER_03 (07:20):
A lot of addicts, you know, they say that the
drugs kind of help them stuffthe emotions that they don't
want to deal with, which, youknow, sounds like the easy way.
But oftentimes, just like yousaid, you said, well, I lost 10
years of my life, or I lostthis.
but you eventually have to dealwith those emotions because

(07:43):
that's really the foundation ofof the issue

SPEAKER_01 (07:46):
you know i work with a lot of uh recovering uh
alcoholics and addicts andsponsored them and i always tell
them god will get your attentionyou know it will happen and
that's what happened to me youknow uh that's the other thing
too you know looking back on itas i say After being sober 32
years, I can look back and oneof the things I hear people in

(08:09):
meetings say, you know, when Iwas out there, I was high, I was
drunk.
I didn't know what I was doing.
I always tell them I always knewwhat I was doing.
I always knew what I was doing.
I knew I was not living right.
And I had a lot of guilt and alot of shame.
And the way you deal with guiltand shame when you're an addict
and alcoholic, you drink moreand you use more.

(08:32):
Just stuck the feelings downonce again.
And one of the things I used tosay, I always believed in God,
but that's not true.
I didn't believe in God.
I believed that he existed.
And I knew, and I don't knowwhere I got this from because I
didn't have a religiousbackground, but I knew I was

(08:54):
going to have to face him andsort of admit all the things I'd
done.
In other words, you know, Standin front of the judge.
I knew God was a judge.
I didn't have that allformulated in my mind, but I
knew that, you know, God existedand I was going to have to face
him and that I hadn't beenliving right.
I had this shame and this guilt.
And so every time that thoughtcame in my mind, it's just like,

(09:17):
stuff them feelings down byusing drugs or

SPEAKER_03 (09:21):
alcohol.
Yeah.
And what were your drugs ofchoice?
What was...

SPEAKER_01 (09:24):
I started on...
alcohol and marijuana but whathappened for me is I started
when I was not quite 18 and at21 years old I woke up one
morning and we had been drinkingall night me and Doc writing
songs and I woke up I had areally bad stomach ache and I

(09:44):
drank some Pepto Bismol and it'sgetting worse and And pretty
soon, I was like, I just tookthe bottle of Pepto-Bismol.
I drank the whole thing.
And the next thing I know, I'mon the porch.
This is in East Oakland.
We lived in the ghetto at thetime.
And I'm on the front porch, bentover the wall of the porch,
throwing up all this pinkPepto-Bismol and screaming.

(10:07):
in agony, you know, and Doc gotme to Kaiser Hospital in
Oakland, and I was in there, andyou know, and they're asking you
questions, and I just startedscreaming.
I was in excruciating painbecause my pancreas was
inflamed.

SPEAKER_02 (10:21):
Oh, my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 (10:22):
Pancreatitis.
Uh-huh.
You know, they hit me up withsome Demerol, and I passed out
and came to, you know, like aday later, and they said, you
have pancreatitis.
And I remember...
an older woman coming in my roomwith a blue book and her saying,

(10:43):
son, are you having a problemwith your alcohol?
And I looked at her like this isa Jehovah Witness or something.
I said, you know, get out of myroom.
I don't want to talk to you.
And, you know, I didn't think ofmyself as having a problem with
alcohol because I thought Idrank better than all my
friends.
You know, I could drink a greatamount of alcohol and not throw
up and pass out, you know.

SPEAKER_03 (11:04):
Isn't it funny, though, how that's like a badge
of honor?
It really shouldn't be, butpeople are like, you know, I
could drink you under the tableor I can drink all this alcohol
and that makes me more of astrong man or something.

SPEAKER_01 (11:18):
Or even women are like, you know, they like to
say, you know, I can drink a manunder the table and stuff, you
know.
So, yeah, that's typicalalcoholic addict behavior, you
know.
And so anyway, you know, I gothospitalized for pancreatitis.
And they said, you know, you mayor may not be an alcoholic, but

(11:42):
you have a pancreas that says noto alcohol.
And if you continue drinking,you know, it can burst.
It can turn black.
We have to cut part of it off.
You could explode while you'restanding on the corner and
you'll just die.
You know, all these bleak, youknow.
Right, scary things.
Yeah, and...

(12:02):
And, you know, I laughed.
I was a little upset.
But in my mind, I'm justifying,nah, not me.
I can do it.
And within a week, I wasdrinking again.
And within a month, I was in thehospital again.
Really painful, you know.
And then the second time, it'slike, okay, like, this is real.
And I'm trying not to drink.

(12:24):
But I only lasted about twoweeks.
And I'm smoking pot like afiend, you know.
And, yeah.
I drank again and within threemonths I was hospitalized again.
After that, I knew I was analcoholic because I couldn't
keep myself from alcohol.
And then what I tried to do is Igot into all these other drugs,

(12:46):
you know, to try, you know, Iwas doing recipes, you know,

SPEAKER_02 (12:49):
like

SPEAKER_01 (12:50):
this much cocaine and this much heroin.
A little pot for euphoria, youknow, maybe a bite of some acid
to help me get, you know,creative with songwriting.
You know, I'm trying to make arecipe that makes me feel like
three and a half drinks and tryto sustain it, you know.
But I'm doing this so that Idrink.

(13:13):
Because every time I drink, I goto the hospital, you know.
And what happened is it neverworked.
Sometimes I could go longperiods of time.
using these different recipes ofdrugs.
But pretty soon, I was addictedto heroin.
I was addicted to the needle.
You know, I'm shooting coke,speedballs.
I'm doing all this stuff.
But I always went back to thebooze.

(13:35):
And every time, I'd go back inthe hospital with pancreatitis.

UNKNOWN (13:40):
Oh.

SPEAKER_01 (13:41):
Vicious cycle.
17 more years, you know.

SPEAKER_03 (13:44):
17 more years

SPEAKER_01 (13:46):
of...
Yeah, because that was the firsttime I had been drinking for
like three years.
I guess 15 more years, 15 moreyears.
But what happened for me istowards the end, it all quit
working.
I was drinking again all daylong, and I'm doing all these
drugs, and I had money at thetime I was touring with a famous

(14:06):
band and my band as well.
I was making money, and I'mspending it all on drugs, and
I'm not getting high.
I can't.
Oh, you

SPEAKER_03 (14:15):
tapped out.

SPEAKER_01 (14:17):
No, no, I'm not passed out.

SPEAKER_03 (14:18):
No, no, I was saying the feelings of getting high
from drugs or alcohol was notworking.

SPEAKER_01 (14:25):
Not working.
I felt like I was inwithdrawals.
My eyes were running and my nosewas running and chicken skin and
chills and sweats constantly.
And yet I had drugs, so I wasn'twithdrawing.
Because I had drugs.
It just wasn't working anymore.
I had a real problem.
And I was hopeless.
And I got to the place where Iaccepted the fact that I

(14:48):
couldn't stop myself.
I knew I was an addict.
I knew I was an alcoholic.
And I knew I was going to diebefore I was 40.
And I was 37 years old.
And I knew that I was going todie.
And I had this feeling I wasgoing to make the papers and
hurt everyone I loved.
And I just had to accept it.
I was hopeless.

(15:08):
And what happened is I went intothis treatment facility, and I
didn't go in there to find the12 steps or the AA or NA
program.
I went in there to dry out.
And I knew that after 28 days ofsleeping and eating, they were
going to push me out the door.
I knew I was going to drink anduse again, and I knew I was

(15:28):
going to die.
But what happened is I walkedinto a lecture room, on those 12
steps.
I realized that day that therewas something they do besides
those meetings.
I had gone to one meeting.
I was like, hang out with thesepeople and not drink and use,
just shoot me.
But that day I saw this lectureon the 12 steps.

(15:50):
I realized there's a way to quitdrinking and using and not be
miserable.
I always thought that myexperience taught me that when I
didn't drink and use, I wasmiserable.
But I learned that day thatthere's something they do so
that you can stop and not bemiserable.
And I wanted it.
And I never drank and usedagain.
But I did every single thingthey suggested.

(16:14):
Everything.
And I've been sober now 32years.

SPEAKER_03 (16:18):
All right.
So at that point, you decided tolisten and take their advice.
And it was almost like your wayout, right?
To saying that you could have ahappy life.
Because you were at a pointwhere...
you were almost choosing drugsand choosing that, you know
what, I'm going to die.

SPEAKER_01 (16:37):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (16:39):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (16:40):
I didn't feel I had a choice at all.
I was...

SPEAKER_03 (16:43):
That it was just going to happen.

SPEAKER_01 (16:44):
It was going to happen and I couldn't stop it.
And, you know, I just did whatthey suggested.
They told me I was least likelyto succeed.
That's what they said in thefacility.
Yeah.
They said, you guys, intravenoususers, you know, the chances of
your getting sober and stayingsober are nil.

(17:04):
And I felt like a death sentencehad been proclaimed, you know.
But, you know, I just, I got asponsor.
I started to work those steps.
I read the book.
I started to pray.
I did everything that theysuggested.
And it's worked all these years.

SPEAKER_03 (17:21):
Now, during this whole time, I mean, it was a
long period of time that youwere taking drugs.
Who were the people that weretrying to help you?
I mean, because I'm sure therewere people, family, friends,
maybe even your band membersthat were saying, you know, did
anyone really sit down and say,look, you need help?

SPEAKER_01 (17:40):
You know, back then there wasn't a lot of
interventions and stuff likethat.
But, you know, I remember when Iwas really strung out on heroin
and living in the BerkeleyHills, and my wife at the time
also was really strung out, youknow, and my dad came over.
And we were passed out in thebed sleeping, you know, we used
to sleep in late.
Typical drug addict behavior,you know.

(18:02):
And there was a banging on thedoor and I looked out the window
and I saw it was my dad.
You know, you can't say no todad, you know.

SPEAKER_03 (18:12):
You

SPEAKER_01 (18:13):
will.
And he confronted me, you know,and he said, what are you going
to do?
And I said, well, I'm going tostop.
You know, what else am I goingto say?
You know, but I couldn't, youknow.
And I remember years later himtelling me that, you know, he
felt like it was his fault thathe allowed me to become so
strung out and everything.
I said, dad, there was nothingin heaven and earth that was

(18:37):
gonna keep me from doing what Iwas doing.
I had to go until I was done,you know?
And you know, at the time, youknow, we bottomed out, left
there, went to LA, we did whatthey call it, just kind of
changed seats in the Titanic.

SPEAKER_03 (18:52):
There was another band member, Rick Stevens.

SPEAKER_01 (18:55):
who also got into drugs and he sang, you know,
some of the classics.

SPEAKER_03 (19:00):
You're Still a Young Man and he also had a drug
addiction and unfortunatelyended up going to prison.
He

SPEAKER_01 (19:13):
killed either three or four people in a
drug-induced...
you know, rage, over drug deals,you know.
This was four years after heleft the band.

SPEAKER_02 (19:25):
Yeah.
You

SPEAKER_01 (19:25):
know, it looked good in the press to say Tower of
Power, so we got all the creditfor it.
But, you know, he did 37 yearsin prison, and he had more than
one lifetime sentence.
He was not supposed to get out.

SPEAKER_03 (19:40):
Yeah.
But

SPEAKER_01 (19:40):
he found the Lord in prison.
and he he truly did uh become areborn christian and i remember
when he got out he called me andi was concerned you know like
you hear a lot about prisonerscoming to jesus and you know and
is it real you know and but heuh he came out and i told him i

(20:01):
said rick you know i want togive you the benefit of the
doubt uh but i need you to knowsomething you know this is your
opportunity to help a lot ofyoung people not make the
mistakes that you make.
And I really hope you do that.
And he's like, you know, I'mgoing to do my best, man.
And we let him sit in with usseveral times and we became

(20:21):
great friends.
He used to call me, we praytogether, you know, and then,
you know, he helped a lot ofpeople when he got out of
prison, you know, and then hegot a little cancer and it's in
the marrow of his bones and hepassed a couple years ago.

UNKNOWN (20:36):
But

SPEAKER_01 (20:36):
Yeah, it was a great success story of what the Lord
can do for you.

SPEAKER_03 (20:40):
Well, you know, I saw the YouTube videos of when
he came on stage, I think atYoshi's in Oakland.
And I thought that was sowonderful that you reconnected
and he was able to sing thissong that, you know, his voice
was still amazing.
And you guys all soundedfantastic.

(21:03):
It was a very special moment.

SPEAKER_02 (21:04):
The crowd loved it.

SPEAKER_03 (21:06):
Yeah, and I think it's really important to note
that he spent 36 years inprison, from what I read, but he
found a purpose in prison, youknow, to be very religious and
talk with other prisoners.

(21:26):
And he also sang.
And, you know, one thing theysay as far as like, you know,
when you feel really down andout, is to find the purpose, you
know, to find the purpose behindwhat you're doing and having
that, I guess, greater good bewhat keeps you going.

(21:47):
So it was really, like you said,a success story.
It was really a wonderful thingthat he was able to find that
purpose and then also continuethat after he got out.

SPEAKER_01 (22:00):
Oh, it was a beautiful ending to a tragic
story is what it was.
You know, I mean...
You know, when he went intojail, just before, you know,
when he was with us, he was afabulous performer.
And he was a great guy.
When he first came in the band,you know, he wasn't doing a lot
of drugs because he wasn'tofficially in.

(22:22):
We had Rufus Miller was oursinger.
And he was filling in for Rufus,who also had drug problems.
But he had had a nodesoperation, Rufus did.
And we needed, back then, wewere doing five sets a night.
So Rick was filling in, he wasdoing a great job and he wanted
the job.
So he's doing everything right.
But then as soon as Rufus wentoff the deep end and we let him

(22:45):
go and Rick became the main guy,then, you know, money came in
and, you know, uh, the egokicked in and pride.
And, uh, next thing we knew hisattitude was really dark, you
know, and, uh, And, you know, Ididn't know a lot about hard
narcotics at that point.
I was still early in myaddiction.
I didn't get into hard narcoticsuntil after he left the band.

(23:07):
But, you know, I realized that,you know, he was strung out.
And, you know, I fired him liketwo or three times.
But we loved him.
You know, we'd bring him back.
But finally one day he couldn't,or he wouldn't rather, come in
to sing all the songs on theTarapara.
One with what is hip.

(23:27):
That album was for him, youknow.
And I already knew LennyWilliams.
And because I had let Rick go afew times, I had asked Lenny to
come in.
But he knew us.
We were friends.
And he said, you know, he didn'twant to get in between that.
He liked us both.
But finally I called him.
I said, look, this guy, we'renot going to deal with him.

(23:49):
We hope you'll come in.
And he finally did.
And that's when Rick really gotdeep in his addiction.
He was with another band for awhile.
I forget their name.
You know, it was like fouryears, and then he went on that
rampage.
I was on the East Coast.
It had broke national news.
And I called my dad.

(24:09):
I go, Dad, how bad is it?
He goes, it's bad, son.
You're on every news programthere is.
And I'll never forget.
He said to me, just rememberthis, son.
No publicity is bad publicity.

UNKNOWN (24:24):
Oh, my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 (24:24):
You know, that must have been a tough time for the
band.
Tough for you also to see yourfriend kind of go down this
path.

SPEAKER_01 (24:31):
Yeah, I mean, it was sad to see.
But, you know, as I said, wewere already all sort of in our
addictions as well.
We weren't doing that type ofthing.
But, you know, we weredefinitely caught up in the
addiction.

SPEAKER_03 (24:44):
When you were in rehab and, you know, it got to
the point where you had to faceyour issues and emotions and all
that.
You were talking aboutabandonment issues.
How was that for you to kind oflike really dig deep and find
out why you were in the placethat you were in?

SPEAKER_01 (25:02):
To be real honest, you know, I don't think I
realized my abandonment issuesuntil I was sober over 20 years.

SPEAKER_03 (25:09):
Really?

SPEAKER_01 (25:10):
No, I didn't even deal with them in treatment.
In treatment, I did my inventoryprocess.
And I just basically, I justbarfed up all the stuff I was
ashamed of, you know.
things that I had done that Iwas ashamed of.
There were sexual situations andethical situations and, you
know, greed and envy andresentment.

(25:34):
And I wrote all that stuff down,and I didn't have to, like,
scratch my head and go, whatshould I put?
It was all there, boiling for 20years.
It just came out.
I was on a flight to Korea, anine-hour flight, And I just
wrote it all out in like two anda half hours and went back and
shared it with my sponsor.

(25:55):
And he pointed out all thesedifferent character defects that
were running like a threadthrough my life.
And, you know, when I was in myaddiction, I remember just, you
know, being baffled.
You know, they say alcoholism,you know, it's cunning,
baffling, and powerful.
I remember...

(26:16):
The last time I was hospitalizedfor pancreatitis in Santa
Monica, my wife came in, broughtmy two little girls, and my
little girl looked at me and shesaid, Daddy, why are you in
here?
And I had no answer.
I had no idea why I couldn'tstop myself.
I knew it was killing me.
I knew every time I drank, I'dget pancreatitis and the pain

(26:37):
was excruciating.
I knew it was wrong.
I knew I had to stop.
I knew all these things, but Icouldn't.
So I used to have thisincredible shame and guilt,
like, Why can't I, you know, mybrother at the time, you know,
he had a son and, you know,they'd throw them all in the van
and go to Disneyland.
They lived like normal people.

(26:58):
And I used to wonder, why can'tI, you know, why?
And what happened for me is Ifound out that, you know, I have
alcoholism.
And, you know, they say ism,I-S-M, I-self-ism.
Me.
It's all aboutself-centeredness, self-pity,

(27:20):
self-exaltation,self-righteousness,
self-deprecation.
And I never knew that.
So all those years when I wasgoing, why, why, why?
I had no idea.
But once I did the steps with asponsor and wrote all that stuff
out and he pointed out mydefects of character and became
willing to give that stuff upand give it away to a power

(27:42):
greater than myself.
I started to realize, oh, thisis why.
These are the things in yourlife that are objectionable,
that we need to cast aside andreplace with things that are
more positive.
It's a process.
It takes a long time.

(28:02):
But things immediately startedto get better.
And they've continued toprogressively get better for
over three decades.

SPEAKER_03 (28:11):
So that was the...
positive process for you or wasthere a difficult part that was
really uncomfortable for youbecause you know so many people
are going through that and theyfear rehab or they don't want to
go but it's good to talk aboutlike the positive changes in

(28:31):
your life and how it made youfeel you know all of these great
steps forward

SPEAKER_01 (28:36):
like like i said before you know god will get
your attention the way he getsyour attention is he he he
brings you to the place wherethere's nothing that you want in
your life more than to just stopliving that way i just want to
stop and it was like i didn'tcare what i had to do you know i
mean years before that When Iwasn't quite as bad as I was

(29:00):
towards the end, I just wantedto figure out a way to get clean
and maintain a normal drug use.
But by the end, there wasn'tnothing about that.
I wanted it out of my life.
It was not working.
I was spending all my money onit.
It was hurting everyone I lovedand my career was going down the
drain and I knew I was going todie.

(29:21):
So I was just like, tell mesomebody, tell me what to do,
please.
I'll do anything.
And I think that's veryimportant for any alcoholic or
addict that is endeavoring toget clean is that, you know, you
have to have that willingness.
Like you want it more thananything.
I got to the place where Iwanted to not use alcohol.

(29:44):
more than I wanted to use.
I had a complete mind switch.
And I take no credit for that.
It wasn't like one day I woke upand became a good person.
That wasn't the deal at all.
It wasn't a matter of being agood or a bad person.
I have alcoholism.
I'm an addict.
And what happened is God, by hisgrace, decided to get my

(30:12):
attention, cause a change in mythinking and eventually come
into my life in a powerful way.
That also was a process.
It wasn't like, oh, I believe inJesus.
It wasn't like that.
For me, for one, I didn't wantto hear about God.
I did not.

(30:32):
But one of the things about that12-step program, they don't
shove it down your throat.
They allow you to find your waya power greater than yourself
what those people in la told meand they got great recovery in
la i'm so grateful i got soberthere they told me look for the
people that have what you wantand try their god on for signs

(30:54):
and you know i was always good ilike my guys used to follow me
around because i could alwaysfind the drugs i was like a
divining rod for drugs you knowand uh I used that same
mentality, that addict mentalityin the rooms.
I could tell who had the goodrecovery.
And they were all praying, andthey were praying to God with a

(31:15):
capital G.
And I was like, I'm doing that.
There are people...
younger than me, you know, thatwere in the treatment facility.
And they were like, well, Ibelieve in the cosmos.
And I believe in this tree thatI really are.
I believe in the ocean, youknow.
And I was like, no, that ain'tgoing to help me.
I need some supernatural,powerful being, you know.

(31:38):
And I couldn't put into wordswhat that was at the time.
But I knew it wasn't going to benature.
It was going to be God with acapital G.
And I tried to emphasize that itworked, and I've been doing it
ever since.

SPEAKER_03 (31:51):
So why do you think God put you through this?
Because, I mean, you were at thebrink of losing your life.

SPEAKER_01 (32:00):
I don't look at it as God put me through it.
God gave me over to my will.
God will try to get yourattention here and there.
And if you keep on saying, no,no, I want to do it my way,
eventually he goes, I'm going tolet you have it your way.
And then you...

SPEAKER_03 (32:20):
Turn it down, right?
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (32:22):
And then, okay, I've had my way.
I don't want to do it my way nomore.
I'll do whatever you say.
And at first, it's just like,somebody tell me.
But eventually it became, no.
It's just power greater thanmyself.

SPEAKER_03 (32:36):
Now, since then, since you've turned your life
around, I'm sure you've comeacross people in your own band,
people that you've worked with,that are going through
addictions or maybe they needhelp i mean how have you used
your experience to help otherpeople in the industry i

SPEAKER_01 (32:56):
find the most effective way to uh make sure
that when someone has a problemthey'll feel good about coming
to you is never to ever callthem on their stuff i i live as
an example in their presence i'msober in their presence it's not
that i don't talk about mysobriety because i talk about it

(33:19):
just like i talk about you knowi had some good breakfast this
morning or whatever i talk likea normal person but i'm never
like you know what man you needto check this out or you know
that stuff alcoholics andaddicts they don't want to hear
that but if you're just humbleif you just live your life sober
in the sight of men, when thetime comes that those men may

(33:41):
need some help, they will cometo you.
And so that's what I do.
I lead by example, not bypreaching.
That's not going to work.

SPEAKER_03 (33:50):
That's a really good thing to say.
People have to come to their ownconclusion.
And, you know, everyone has aturning point when they let go
and they finally listen toothers that may have gone the
same road.
And if you know, change theirlives.

SPEAKER_01 (34:08):
You know, I've had to approach people about their
drinking and using at differenttimes, but I have a maxim that I
go by, which my sponsor taughtme.
He said, you know, if the waythey're living is affecting your
business, then it's not onlyyour right, but your duty to let

(34:28):
them know that they can'tcontinue to do that.
And so, for instance, you know,if somebody is getting high or
getting drunk and they don'tshow up for a gig you know then
as the leader of the band it'smy job to say you know what you
can't do that here you can drinkand use on your own time do
whatever you need to do but youcan't miss gigs you can't affect

(34:51):
my business like this and what igenerally do is i say you know
look that stuff has had its waywith us and so around here
they're not going to allow it igo i'm just I'm just a leader.
I'm not like the dictator.
They're going to make me fireyou if you don't look at this.
And I try to put it in thatrespect, like, allow me to help

(35:13):
you if you will, but one thingyou cannot do, you can't miss
the gig, and you can't affect mybusiness with your addiction.

SPEAKER_03 (35:22):
Now, when you were going through the abandonment
issues, What was it that helpedyou?
Was it counseling or a type oftherapy?
Or was it basically just sayingthe words and admitting to it?
Or what is it that really helpedyou kind of heal that part?

SPEAKER_01 (35:43):
Kind of all the above, you know.
Sobriety and recovery fromaddiction is a constant growing
thing in your life.
If you're really committed tostaying sober, you know, it's
got to be growing becausealcoholism is growing every day.
My addiction is growing everyday.

(36:04):
So I have to make sure myrecovery is also growing.
So as I'm in that process, I'mconstantly inventorying myself.
So I do what's called a spotcheck inventory.
During the day, my mouth getsloose or my attitude gets dark
for a moment.
I'll just have a little talkwith God for a second and say,
you know what?
God, help me get back.

(36:25):
One of the things I tell myguys, you can start your day
over anytime you want.
And you can start it over asmany times as you want.
You know, and I do that all thetime.
But the other thing is, youknow, every night I do a step
10.
I look at my day, you know, whatdid I do that I could have done
better?
And so I'm always looking atmyself as my point.

(36:46):
And I started to notice thingsabout myself and I did some
therapy.
I had some, therapy years agowhen i was divorced from my
first wife and you know a coupleyears ago i was divorced again
and you know that brought upsome issues for me these are

(37:07):
relationship issues and i needto look at them so i went they
got some professional help oftwo kinds christian biblical
professional help and also atherapist and uh in going to
therapy you know they alwayswant to know you know, your
past.
I'm sorry.
I'm going through a lot of thisstuff that I'm telling you.

(37:30):
And it came up about that firstgirl who broke my heart and also
about my parents leaving me atthe age of 17.
And I sort of, I had the, like,it was like a movie.
I was talking through it.
And I was standing in front ofmy My sister-in-law's house, my

(37:50):
brother and his girlfriend, theyweren't married yet, but she was
like a sister to me.
And we were saying goodbye to myparents, and my little brother
was in the back seat.
And he was like eight or nineyears old.
And we were his whole world, meand my brother Jack.
And they're moving to Detroitfrom the Bay Area.

(38:11):
That's a long way, you know.
And as they're driving away, youknow, we're all crying and I see
my little brother crying.
And as I'm talking through thiswith the therapist, you know,
the feelings are just like, ah,just, you know, it's like, cause
I had stuffed them down for somany years, you know?
And then even like, I dealt witha little bit, you know, years

(38:32):
ago, my first divorce, but theneven all those 25 years later, I
dealt with it again.
And, you know, it's like, Irealized, you know what, I
stuffed it down more again.
And then I really started tolook at that, and I really, I
sort of put a name to it, as itwere, you know.
I said, all right, you knowwhat, I have abandonment issues,

(38:53):
I do.
And I started to look at all myrelationships, you know, and I
just realized, and that was veryhelpful to me, you know.

SPEAKER_03 (39:03):
Yeah, it's funny how a painful trauma can really
affect your relationships, andit's almost like, those emotions
need attention and the respectto really be recognized.
And I think maybe once they'rerecognized and really looked at,
that maybe that's when thehealing process begins.

(39:27):
Giving that experience therespect and really just looking
at it and thinking about howbadly it hurt you.
I

SPEAKER_01 (39:37):
think it's an integral healing.
that's needed there.
And you're right.
It doesn't begin until youactually unearth it, as it were.
And that means let thosefeelings up.
And I tell you, I remember a fewtimes going through that,

(39:57):
probably three or four times,talking through that and just
crying.
It was like I had stuffed itdown for so many years.
And I was just like, ah, I cameout, you know.
I remember leaving thetherapist's office and just
being tired, you know, likereally crying hard and your

(40:17):
emotions are just, you know,emerging so profoundly, you
know.
But, you know, it was helpful,you know.
And now I can see certainbehaviors that are objectionable
to me and I can say, you knowwhat, that is related to this
abandonment issue and you needto, You know, make amends, and

(40:40):
you need to change that behaviorand right the wrong.
And, you know, it helps.
Helps you to live a life that'smore pleasing in God's sight.

SPEAKER_03 (40:50):
Well, I do think that emotions are the color of
life.
And all the emotion that you putin your music is, you know, what
makes people feel so good.
And even, I'm sure, when youcried over that abandonment,
that...
there's something about itthat's so freeing, right?

(41:10):
It's almost like letting it outto the world and letting it go.
And it's just a great example ofreally the beauty of emotions
and how important it is toreally respect them and that
there's strength in emotion.
Because I do think sometimes,especially with men, that they

(41:31):
do have a tendency to stuff downemotion That is hurtful or where
you should be crying.
That's very painful and that's anatural reaction to something
that is painful.

SPEAKER_01 (41:45):
And what happens when you do that is it becomes
like a regular thing.
And so pretty soon you're likethis stoic, hard person.
And I see that in myself a lot.
And over the years, many peoplehave told me, like I used to
work in Sausalito at this placecalled Record Plant.
I did a lot of records there.
And, you know, I was friendswith everybody there.

(42:05):
I loved everybody that workedthere.
And I remember one time I was ata Christmas party and And a
couple of the girls were talkingto me and they were saying, you
know, the first two years I knowyou, I thought you hated me, you
know?
And I was like, what?
Why would you think that?
You know?
And she goes, because you'd bewalking down the hall and like

(42:27):
your face, you know?
And I, I tell people often whenI share my story that I have an
F you face, you know?
And I, my dad was the same way.
I did.
I think I would get that a lotfrom him.
And I've, figured out ways touse that to my advantage over
the years but it's also beenvery disadvantageous in many

(42:48):
ways you know and i think thatcomes from you know like you're
stuffing emotion you're stuffingemotion you stand pretty soon
you become this stoic hardperson you know and uh and i
don't know that that can ever becompletely undone it becomes
such a part of your makeup youknow but it's just so helpful to
acknowledge it and to be on aquest to deal with it regularly.

(43:13):
It doesn't mean it goes away.
You can put it in check and youcan just acknowledge, all right,
I got the F you face on andthere's no reason for that.
Smile, man, and bring some joyinto this person's life before
you scare them away.
Well,

SPEAKER_03 (43:30):
you seem like a very joyous, very easily sociable
person.
I

SPEAKER_01 (43:36):
can be.
I got a lot of different sidesto me, but we all do.

SPEAKER_03 (43:41):
Well, one of the things I was listening to the
new album, Step Up, and I lovethe theme behind it because it's
like step up, don't give up,which is kind of like the whole
idea behind the podcast too.
It's, you know, telling yourstory, but encouraging people to
persist and find the solution,whatever that solution may be,

(44:03):
but just to keep trying and Andonce you do find what fits for
you, whether it's for addictionor mental health or mood
disorder, that really can leadto such a happy, healthy life.
And that is what feels good,right?
That natural high.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (44:22):
They used to have a phrase in the recovery community
in Los Angeles.
really popular, you know, theywould always say, you know, get
in the solution, you

SPEAKER_02 (44:31):
know,

SPEAKER_01 (44:32):
stay in the solution.
You know, when I, when I share,I like to share the solution,
you know, I mean, you know, Iwas new in recovery and I was
like, you know, I just, I didn'tknow what the solution was, you
know, learning, you know.

SPEAKER_03 (44:44):
Well, you are a survivor and, uh, thank you so
much for sharing your story.
I mean, 52 years, um, in, intower of power, uh, What are
some closing words of wisdom fora musician who wants to have a
long, successful career inmusic?

SPEAKER_01 (45:04):
There's four words.
I can boil it down to fourwords.
Live right.
Feel right.
And that's it.
If you're living the right way,you're going to feel good.
And if you're not, you're notgoing to be feeling good.
So that's the short story.
I will say for people that areearly in recovery, we have

(45:31):
addictive personalities.
And so what happened for me wasI started looking for all these
other avenues to act outaddictively.
So one of the first one wasfood.
You know, and in my first yearof sobriety, I gained like 100
pounds, you know, and I dealtwith the food issue for years.
You know, I'm an overeater.

(45:51):
I went to Overeaters Anonymousand did that for a while.
But, you know, it's an issue.
And that's just your addictionis trying to find another way,
another outlet.
You know, for a while it wassex.
You know, I was, you know,having all these little, know
relationships on the road thatyou know i knew they weren't

(46:12):
right and i didn't feel goodabout them and i talked with my
sponsor about them and theyweren't going to fix me and
eventually i got that in orderbut you know your addiction will
find all these different waysyou know it could be shopping it
could be working out it could bepositive addicted to like i'm
eating healthy and i'm workingout i mean Whatever I do, I do

(46:33):
to the max.
So that's one thing I'll sayabout from a mental health
aspect.
If you're early in addiction,the thing to seek is balance.
And that's an elusive thing.
It takes a lot of work.
But we should have moderationand balance in our lives.

SPEAKER_03 (46:54):
Next up, we have music therapist and author of
the book Sonic Recovery, Harnessthe Power of Music to Stay
Sober, and host of his ownpodcast called Reduce Your
Stress with Tim Ringgold.
Tim shares a solution of usingmusic as therapy in addiction
recovery, and we start with Timactually sharing his own story
of addiction.

SPEAKER_00 (47:15):
I love his story because I got sober in 12 Steps
as well.
And one of my friends, TommyRosen, one of the things he says
is, I wouldn't want to imagine aworld without the 12 Steps.
Where people are when they findthe 12 Steps is not exactly at
the top of their game.
And there's that moment whereyou finally, like he said, he

(47:37):
used the phrase, was brought tohis knees in I was brought to my
knees.
I know what that's like.
It's humbling.
And then you're finally willing.
And you're like, oh, oh, I'mactually going to go to a
meeting.
Oh, God, how did it come tothis?
And I remember Pat Carnes, who'san expert on sex addiction.

(47:59):
That's what I got sober from.
He said, you know, the averageguy from the moment he's aware
that he should go to a 12-stepmeeting

SPEAKER_03 (48:06):
is

SPEAKER_00 (48:08):
like two years before between the awareness and
the action.

SPEAKER_03 (48:11):
One thing I read in your book, Sonic History, was
that you did come to a pointwhere you were at the edge of a
bridge.
And you called somebody,thankfully, and that person
helped you off.

SPEAKER_00 (48:32):
Literally walked me off the bridge.

SPEAKER_03 (48:33):
Yeah.
Now, what mindset were you atthe time?
I mean, what were you...
I

SPEAKER_00 (48:40):
could tell you exactly.
I mean, I can see it.
I

SPEAKER_03 (48:43):
really do want to start with your addiction
because that's really thefoundation of everything, right?

SPEAKER_00 (48:47):
Yeah, and I'm an open book on it.
So I could tell you exactlywhere I was.
I was in Jacksonville, Florida.
I know exactly where I waswalking, what side of the
bridge, everything that had justhappened.
I had just screwed up with afemale colleague of mine.
And in my head, as I was walkingback to my hotel, which was on
the other side of the river, Inmy head, the way that it was

(49:08):
going to go was she was going todisclose and tell everybody.
I had just been like, notawarded, but recognized for my
TED Talk at that same conferencethat morning.
So I'm at the pinnacle of mycareer that morning,

SPEAKER_02 (49:25):
which

SPEAKER_00 (49:26):
seems to be when I tend to act out is when things
are actually going really wellfor me.
It's almost like a self-sabotagething.
And in my head, I only see onefuture.
And the future is I'm going toget kicked out of my field.
There is just this, I justruined my career.
And this is going to ruin mymarriage.

(49:47):
And as my brain is in thisfeedback loop of terror, and
stress and emotional pain fromall this anxiety of this
imagined future, because youknow how that is.
We're all mind readers and we'reall future fortune tellers.
We know how it's going to go.
I only saw one outcome, whichwas it was all going to blow up.

(50:12):
And as I'm walking over thebridge, I look down at the
water, Mari, and the water justsays, I can make it all go away.
I can make it all go away rightnow.
If you want this pain to end, Icould just, all you have to do
is come to me.
And it felt like the force ofgravity was like pulling me into

(50:35):
the river from the bridge.
And I got scared because I waslike, I thought about it and I
entertained it.
And I was like, that would bereally easy.
And this could all end.
and you know the stressed brainis not a rational brain the
amygdala is at is at work it'snot considering future

(50:55):
consequences all it wants to dois self-soothe in the moment and
so i saw that as an easy waythat was the fastest way to
self-soothe

SPEAKER_02 (51:07):
yeah

SPEAKER_00 (51:08):
and I luckily, I grabbed my phone and I have this
thing about, I call it my fivefaves, which is, you know, you
have that, like those, your,your favorites on your phone.
And I just looked at the listand it was like, mom, can't call
mom, wife, can't call wife,sponsor, voicemail.
And then my recovery buddy, Joe,and he picked up and he started

(51:31):
to put in my ear alternatefutures that he saw and he's the
one who just kind of calmed mynerves.
But really what it was, was itwas that connection between me
and him in that moment of likepain.
The connection is what kept megoing.

(51:52):
And I think that's one of themost important things in a
recovery journey is it's allabout reconnection and
connection is how we, that's howwe do life.
And that was like, it's likemedicine.
Connection is like social,spiritual medicine.

SPEAKER_03 (52:05):
It is, and it's amazing how many musicians start
writing music, playing music,when they're in the depths of
depression or anxiety or goingthrough a really challenging,
hard time.
They turn to music to soothethemselves and also to distract
their mind.
I mean, all the wonderfulfeeling things that music

(52:28):
brings.
And once you pour that emotioninto your music, it just does
connect.
to all the fans, the audience,and when people can feel like,
oh wow, somebody understandswhat I'm going through right
now, it's that feeling of, oh mygosh, I'm not alone anymore.
The

SPEAKER_00 (52:47):
number one existential question we all have
is, am I alone?
And it's terrifying.
And when it's answered, and withthe answer no, it's one of the
most deeply soothing,satisfying, and comforting
experiences we have.
as mammals because we're socialanimals so we by design do life

(53:08):
in groups in connection that'sall the point that's the whole
plan we're not like bears who gooff and do their own thing once
we're 18 not humans no humanslive in groups humans depend on
each other the whole way sothat's that is what it's all
about

SPEAKER_03 (53:23):
okay so music therapy let's just break that
down to the basics okay what Howwould you describe music
therapy?

SPEAKER_00 (53:36):
Short answer.
So it's the targeted use ofmusic to affect change in
another individual.
And the change really isn'tabout becoming a better musician
or learning how.
It's not educational, right?
It's not about performance.
It's really about they want toget better in some area of their
life and the music's going tofacilitate that.

SPEAKER_03 (53:56):
So what are some of the exercises or homework that
you would do that you maybe giveyour clients as a music
therapist?
Is that how it works?
Or does it kind of happen withinyour interaction with them?

SPEAKER_00 (54:10):
Yeah, so music therapy, you have three players
involved in music therapy.
You've got a client or a groupof clients.
You've got a music therapist.
And then the music therapist isusing...
the whole of music and itselements as like a toolkit.

(54:30):
And so we're pulling out thedifferent elements of music and
using them in a session, therapysession, with the clients to
achieve very specific goals.
So let's talk about it in thecontext of mental health.
Okay.
So I work with teens and adultswho are struggling with anxiety,

(54:51):
depression, self-harm,addiction.
And for me, addiction is just anumbrella.
It's within mental health.
It's not a co-occurring.
It's not a separate thing.
You don't have addiction withoutsome sort of mental health issue
because addiction isn't aproblem.
It's a solution to a problem.
It's just a poor solutionbecause the part of the brain
that triggers it's not toobright.
So when I'm working withpatients and let's say there's

(55:14):
kind of five things we wantpatients to be able to do to
help them with their mentalhealth.
And if you spell them out, theyspell the word sober.
So it's a nice little easymnemonic phrase.
So we want patients to be ableto stay present.
Why?
Because if you're tripping outover the future or you're
ruminating over the past, youhave no control over the future

(55:36):
or past and the brain finds thatstressful.
So we don't like to be in placeswhere we don't have any control.
So we want our thoughts and ourattention in the present moment
because that's where we can moveour body.
So when you make music, Musictakes place in the present
moment.
It's time-based.
So we're going to engage in livemusic making.

(55:56):
And it might look likeimprovisation with rhythmic
instruments.
So oftentimes I'll bring WestAfrican and Central and South
American drums and percussioninto a room.
And I'll bring a bass drum andI'll introduce the instruments.
They're super easy to play.
And then I'll lay down a steadyheartbeat and I'll say, just
connect the instrument to thebeat.

(56:18):
It's your only job.
explore the sounds, connect tothe beat.
And as they explore the soundsand the instruments, and then
they connect the sounds to thebeat, what they find is some
instruments they connect withmore than others.
So they're trying to connect theinstrument to the beat and they

(56:39):
try, let's say three, and I tellthem, you got to try at least
three different instruments.
So I'll try this one, I'll trythis one, I'll try this one, and
I'll connect the instrument tothe beat.
but they don't necessarily feelconnected to that instrument.
But usually there's one thatthey feel the most connected out
of the three.
And so they're now connected tothe instrument.
The instrument's connected tothe beat.

(57:00):
Well, who's playing the beat?
Me.
So now they're connected to me.
Who else are they now connectedto?
They're connected to everybodyin the room because everybody
else is also busy trying toconnect with the beat.
And what they have their eye onis just trying to connect their
instrument to the beat.
But what's really happeningtherapeutically is without
words, I'm creating a space ofpsychological safety,

(57:24):
connection, and presence wherewe're all in the present moment
connecting together to somethingoutside of ourselves.
And when that happens, theydon't recognize that, wow, like
A, I'm present, B, I'mconnected.
C, I'm moving energy through mybody and I'm moving energy out

(57:45):
of my body and emotions are justenergy in motion.
So they're just moving emotionout of their body.
Didn't even notice that.
They're not thinking about theproblems in the future or the
past.
So they're escaping the thingsthat are stressing them out.
All of these things arehappening in real time.
And the piece de resistance iswhen we engage in music making
as human beings, our brains loveit and our brains release which

(58:09):
is the feeling of beingconnected and it releases
dopamine, which is the pleasurechemical when we eat chocolate
or have sex.
So we have this wonderfulpleasure response in the brain
and this feeling of beingpresent and connected.
And yet all we're just focusingon is a simple instruction,
which is take these claves andconnect them to the drum.

(58:29):
And then when we wrap it up,we'll say, all right, what
instrument did you connect withthe most?
And everybody has one.

SPEAKER_02 (58:34):
And

SPEAKER_00 (58:35):
then we just look at, the tools of recovery.
And we say, listen, that's ametaphor for recovery.
There are all kinds of tools inrecovery, but you're not going
to connect with all of themequally.

SPEAKER_03 (58:48):
You know, I think that's really important to point
out that, of course, connectionis really important, but the
fact that it's not just peoplethat we connect with, but we can
connect to different energies,whether that is a musical
instrument or a sport or, youknow, Even when you have an

(59:09):
addiction, there are certaindrugs or certain things that you
gravitate to.
And one thing with when you havea mood disorder, you can feel
disconnected.
I mean, that can be part of thecondition.
So just any kind of connectionis almost like a bridge to
healing.

(59:29):
It's almost like the light atthe end of the tunnel.
So, you know, whether it's, likeyou said, music therapy or an
online support group or, youknow, face-to-face interaction
with a therapist, that's reallyimportant.

SPEAKER_00 (59:47):
Totally.
And, you know, there's like, Ilove the, I like to hang out
with people who are in the manypaths philosophy club of
recovery because there's areason why the 12 steps exist
and smart recovery exists is AndCelebrate Recovery exists, which
is like the polar opposite ofSmart Recovery.
There is a place for all of thembecause we are not all wired

(01:00:11):
identically.
We are wired similarly, but notidentically.
What you connect with isn't asimportant as the fact that
you're connecting.
But one of the things asmusicians that playing allows us
to do is move a lot of emotionout of ourselves without having
to use words.
And this is really important forguys particularly because words

(01:00:34):
to express emotions.
One, we live in a culture wherewe're reinforced not to, and
this idea of being, you know,macho and stoic and strong, um,
really doesn't serve somebody inaddiction.
This is not the time for that.
We want to be able to open upand express, which just means to

(01:00:56):
squeeze out.
We want to squeeze out thisenergy, get it out of our body.
But language becomes a tollboothbecause you got to have the
right words.
Otherwise you're like, and thenyou got to have the right
listener, which can bechallenging because A, you don't
want to go find a therapist.
I don't know any guy who has anyinterest in pursuing a

(01:01:17):
therapist.
I'm a music therapist.
I have no interest in like whatit would take to go find a
therapist.
Forget it.
That's heavy lifting.
I don't want to do it.
Just the logistics of it.
I don't want to do much less.
Oh God, is this person, are wegoing to connect?

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:30):
It takes time to find the right person.
And that also is going to bechallenging.
That's why like part of thepodcast, one of the key things
is be persistent.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:41):
I need the help that you need because there's, Times
where you try things and it'slike, what is this?
This is not for me.
Yeah, totally.
You've got to pick through andtry so many different things
until you find what connectswith you, whether it's a
therapist or medication or, youknow.
Even

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:00):
a home group.
You'll have guys finally go to ameeting and they didn't like the
personalities in the room orthey didn't like the style of
the meeting.
And I'm like, go to sixdifferent meetings before you
make up your mind because everymeeting is its own subculture.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:14):
One thing about songwriting and creating music,
not only is music nonjudgmental,but there is something really
amazing if you do get with theright person to play with.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:30):
Yes.
Whether you play music with themor you sing with them.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:34):
I mean, I've played piano and I've taken vocal
lessons and I have gotten a joythat is indescribable, such a
high when you connect withsomebody musically.
Yes.
You know?
Yes.
Oh, yeah.
And that is really exciting andthat can kind of like wake up
your whole body and mind.

(01:02:55):
The other thing I find is that,you know, And I think this is,
especially with men, but it'sokay to express that in a song.
It's okay to write lyrics as ifit were a diary and spill all of
that on stage.

(01:03:15):
And people love that, right?
Because it's so honest andtruthful and vulnerable.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:22):
Yeah, that's a really good insight.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:23):
Yeah, and they're not judged for it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:25):
Nope.
Yeah, it totally is.
It's a socially acceptable wayto be vulnerable, to talk about
your feelings, and just to liftthe performance anxiety from
anybody.
You don't ever have to performyour music on stage for it to
help you.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:45):
A big thank you to our featured guest, Amelia
Castillo of Tower of Power, andour expert, Tim Ringgold.
Pick up Tower of Power's newalbum, Step Up, and catch them
live on September 6th at VenturaCounty Fairgrounds for their
Concerts in Your Car series.
For more information, go totowerofpower.com.
And for more information on TimRinggold, go to timringgold.com.

(01:04:09):
We'll close the episode with aclip of Tower of Power's new
single called Look in My Eyes.
So until next time, be brave,ask for help, and be persistent
in finding the mental help thatyou need.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:23):
I know that you want me

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:59):
Check Your Head is kindly supported by DBSA San
Gabriel Valley, Lemon TreeStudios in Los Angeles, Blue Oak
Podcasting, and other kinddonors and sponsors.
Visit CheckYourHeadPodcast.comwhere you'll find more resources
for mental health.
Subscribe$2 to our podcast onour Patreon page and be our
friends on Facebook, Instagram,and Twitter.

(01:05:22):
Check Your Head Podcast is a501c3 sponsored nonprofit with
all donations being taxdeductible.
Thank you so much for listening.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

The Breakfast Club

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Tower of Power (Emilio Castillo) "Reboot": Drug & Sex Addiction Recovery with Tim Ringgold (Music Therapist, Sonic Recovery)

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

The Breakfast Club

All Episodes

Tower of Power (Emilio Castillo) "Reboot": Drug & Sex Addiction Recovery with Tim Ringgold (Music Therapist, Sonic Recovery)

Stuff You Should Know