CHECK YOUR HEAD Podcast "Reboot" of Sal Rodriguez (WAR) & Jeff Duke speaking on Alcoholism & Multi-Drug Addiction recovery for Alcohol Awareness Month, April 2025.
Mari Fong interviews Sal Rodriguez of WAR and Jeff Duke, Founder of Christ Powered Recovery. Sal Rodriguez shares how music, drinking alcohol and parties were part of his lifestyle growing up which led to an addiction to cocaine and selling LSD as a teen. His obsessive-compulsive behaviors made it hard to stop using but eventually found his solutions through Christ Powered Recovery and the 12 steps. Multi-platinum selling band WAR celebrates their 52nd anniversary in 2021.
Next, we have Sal Rodriguez's mentor and founder of Christ Powered Recovery, Jeff Duke, who shares his knowledge on why the program worked for Sal and how to prevent relapse with our mood disorders and addictions. With 26 years of sobriety, Jeff shares common trials and tribulations of recovery and how a better life is waiting for you on the other side.
“Be brave, ask for help, and be persistent in finding the mental help that you need.” For free and affordable solutions for mental health and addiction recovery, visit: http://checkyourheadpodcast.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:00):
Welcome to the Check Your Head podcast, the podcast
where notable musicians andexperts share their stories and
solutions for mental health andwellness.
I'm your host, Mari Fong, amusic journalist and life coach
for musicians, and I'm excitedto have an icon as our featured
musical guest.
(00:22):
He's been a member of a Latinsoul funk band who's celebrating
52 years playing and touring theworld.
Can you guess who this is?
SPEAKER_01 (00:30):
Yes, it's the band War,
SPEAKER_03 (00:42):
whose hits not only include Lowrider, but Why Can't
We Be Friends, The Cisco Kid,Spill the Wine, and my personal
favorite, All Day Music.
Today I interview drummer andpercussionist Sal Rodriguez of
War, a long-time musician andalso a stand-up comedian.
Sal was inspired by hearing hisfriend Emilio Castillo of Tower
(01:04):
of Power on the Check Your Headpodcast and also wanted to share
his solutions for theobsessive-compulsive behaviors
that led to his drug and alcoholaddictions.
Next, we have an expert that wasinstrumental in Sal's recovery,
Jeff Duke, the founder ofChrist-Powered Recovery, or CPR,
a program based on the original12 Steps.
(01:24):
Jeff is also Sal's recoverymentor, who shares how this
program helped Sal in hislifelong recovery and led him to
a happier, more fulfilling life.
But first, let's hear SalRodriguez of WAR share his
story.
SPEAKER_02 (01:38):
It started for me, I mean, at an early age.
My father had a group, and thisis like in the 60s.
They were called Los Grenudos,which means the long-haired
guys, because of the Beatles.
When you're really young andyou're going to these parties
and you're seeing people havinga great time dancing and
(02:02):
drinking.
I didn't see any hard drugs backthen, just alcohol.
So you think, well, that's whatadults do.
Adults have fun by drinking anddancing.
So you want to experience that.
We want to reach people.
for that age when you're 21,when you can buy alcohol.
(02:22):
Of course, in my days, we alwaysgot alcohol.
I don't know how we askedsomebody older than us to buy
alcohol.
But you will sneak a beer hereand there when you're kids.
I mean, you think it's a thrill,man.
Wow, you sneak around and have ahouse party.
You sneak a beer and take it outto the back and drink it,
thinking, wow, this is so cool.
But as I got to being ateenager, You want to be like
(02:44):
your rock and roll heroes, man,like Hendrix, Bonham, and mostly
everybody was drinking,partying, having a good time.
I was just like, well, that'swhat rock stars do.
They drink, they use, theysmoke, and this lifestyle
becomes an everyday thing.
One time I was 17 years old, andI remember I asked myself, am I
(03:07):
an alcoholic?
Because every night I go tosleep, I mean, I'm drunk.
I mean, I have to be literallydrunk.
Now, falling down and passingout, you know, you don't think
of that as a progression.
You know, it keeps going andgoing.
SPEAKER_03 (03:22):
Was there anybody in your family or friends that
talked to you about alcohol?
Did they notice that maybe
SPEAKER_02 (03:28):
you were drinking too much?
No, because everybody was doingthe same thing.
You know, all my friends, we allhang out with musicians.
And what do we do?
First thing we do in the morningis You got the turntable, you
put your favorite record on, youclean out your herbs, and then
you get tuned in for your day.
You know, I live with mom anddad, so I didn't have rent.
(03:49):
I wasn't married.
I didn't have kids.
And so that was my everydaything, man.
Your dream is being a full-timemusician and playing.
And I want to be like the guysin Grand Funk Railroad, Chicago,
Tower of Power.
You know, when you go to theseconcerts, man, you go, man,
that's what I want to do, man.
That's my life, man.
I want to do that.
And that was just the way oflife.
(04:11):
Drinking, like the weekend, fromFriday to Saturday to Sunday,
I'd be like, man, don't theyever sleep?
It's like, they keep going.
Six o'clock in the morning,they're playing guitars, they're
strumming away, drinking.
SPEAKER_03 (04:23):
I know, that's it.
It's like a musician'slifestyle.
There's no hours in the day orthe night.
Things kind of blend together.
one into the other.
But, you know, one thing youwere saying is that starting
with alcohol, it leads you intoother things.
SPEAKER_02 (04:39):
It sure does.
SPEAKER_03 (04:40):
And what was that?
SPEAKER_02 (04:42):
It progresses to other things.
I mean, when that startedhappening, I started
experimenting with barbiturates.
In junior high, we called itjunior high back then.
It's middle school now.
So that was the end thing backthen.
The early 70s was thebarbiturates.
We call them reds.
And that's what was popular.
(05:02):
And some of my friends were evenOD back then in junior high.
They were somebody who wasdriving in a car and they
wrecked and they died andmusician friends.
And because the drugs, thedrinking, everything could
happen to them, you know?
SPEAKER_03 (05:18):
How about yourself?
If you were taking barbituratesor alcohol, what was your close
call?
What was your wake-up call thatit was getting bad?
SPEAKER_02 (05:28):
It takes a lot of wake-up calls, you know what I
mean?
Because when you're in thatstate of mind and you're still
functioning, you could be afunctioning addict, a
functioning alcoholic, afunctioning heroin addict, and
you function.
You learn how to function underthat.
So when you're in that state ofmind that, hey, I can still play
drums, I still do this, but thatstill takes control over your
(05:51):
life.
And I think some of the wake-upcalls that I had, you know,
sometimes I'm driving and I go,how did I get home?
What happened?
Sometimes you get in theseblackouts.
Not much, but that didn't stopme getting pulled over and
arrested for DUI.
I mean, this is back in the 70s,man.
I've been driving so many timesunder the influence.
It's amazing.
(06:11):
I didn't physically hurtanybody, you know.
And we had a lot of close calls.
I'm just so grateful andthankful that that didn't happen
to me or I didn't hurt anybody.
Because one of my dearest,closest friends was killed in a
car accident from a drunkdriver.
And we grew up playing music anddrums and dreaming the same
(06:31):
thing.
You know what I mean?
We'll go to concerts together.
We're going to be in hiswedding.
We were in high school when thishappened.
Just freshly out of high school.
So, I mean, we're still youngback then.
He was a close friend, a guythat you hung out with and
played music together.
And then all of a sudden, hegets killed by a drunk driver.
It's like, wow.
And they both didn't make it.
(06:53):
You know, it was a head-oncollision.
The other guy was so drunk.
But these kind of things, youdon't think that it can happen
to you.
But it does happen.
We just don't know howvulnerable we are for these
accidents or for these tragediesto happen until it happens.
And sometimes people wind up injail.
(07:14):
I have three, I can say rightoff the bat, three dear close
friends that were killed by adrunk driver.
And it's just hard.
SPEAKER_03 (07:25):
The other thing is sometimes mental issues can lead
to drinking or sometimesexcessive drinking and drug use
can lead to mental issues.
Some people who go deep intoalcoholism can get into
depression, sometimes can causepanic attacks.
What was it for you?
(07:46):
Were there any mental issuesinvolved before or after you
started drinking and drugs?
SPEAKER_02 (07:52):
No, I don't think there was a mental issue there.
It's just a lifestyle that Iacquired being around people
that were in the music business.
But since I've been workingrecovery the last 10 years, I
mean, you hear thesetestimonies.
You talk about being honest andbeing transparent, right?
It's about being transparent andnot hiding anything because when
(08:15):
you hide something, that meansyou're ashamed.
Of course, there's a right timeand the right place to do that.
There's these rooms of recovery.
I mean, you talk aboutdepression, people that's been
sexually abused by familymembers, by parents, abandonment
issues.
You got all these issues.
You just try to fill in thatgap, that void, that emptiness.
(08:39):
There's so much out there thatgoes under that umbrella of
depression, of anxiety, ofpeople that hold resentments
forever.
They don't know how to releaseit and let it go.
And the power of forgiveness isso powerful.
But it's a process.
That's why recovery is a one dayat a time.
(09:01):
We take these steps.
So where I'm going, we work the12-step program.
So like an NA or an AA, we havethese steps.
We get a sponsor.
We go through these steps.
We write them out.
The first step, I make that I ampowerless over blah, blah, blah,
whatever your addiction is.
And then in my life, I becomeunmanageable.
(09:23):
Step one, we have to admit thatwe have a problem.
SPEAKER_03 (09:26):
That's like the hardest step, it seems like,
right?
SPEAKER_02 (09:29):
There's so many people in denial, friends that
are in denial.
So you try to talk to them.
How do you let them know?
It's like, bro, you got aproblem, man.
That's going to be my part,reaching out.
Just have a hard, hard talk tothem because...
It's so important to the lovedones that you plant that seed,
that you let them know that youcare about them, first of all.
And something happens when youcome to these rooms and you see
(09:51):
life with clarity now.
You know what I mean?
So much stuff opens up and youhear other people's testimonies.
You're going like, wow, I'm notalone.
I'm not the only one goingthrough this.
Whether it's a mental thing,whether it's abandonment issues,
because a lot of the times it'sabandonment issues.
The father left.
(10:12):
I don't know who my dad is.
Not in my case, but you hearthat in these recovery rooms,
that they were molested byeither their parents or somebody
in the family and they try tosuppress it by taking drugs and
taking this and taking that andjust rebelling against society.
And so it's very eye-awakening,man, when you go into these
(10:36):
rooms and And you sit there andlisten because not only do I go
there because I enjoy goingthere, but I like listening to
the stories and support too.
When I talk to people aboutrecovery, oh, I don't have, I'm
okay, I don't need that.
Well, there could be otherthings that you can learn from
this thing too, you know what Imean?
(10:57):
But knowing that there are otherissues that people don't like to
talk about.
SPEAKER_03 (11:02):
Yeah, I think that's really the thing is that There's
so many traumas, there's anger,there's hurt, there's grief and
sadness, and these emotions thata lot of people don't want to
show.
But what happens is if we pushthose down or try to bury them
or try to erase them with drugsor alcohol, they seem to come
(11:24):
back, but in an unhealthy way,in a maybe dysfunctional way.
So it's finding ways to get allof that out.
All of those toxic feelings sothat you can kind of make sense
of it and also get otherpeople's perspectives.
SPEAKER_02 (11:44):
And there's a lot of times people feel that people
don't care.
You know what I mean?
But there are people that careout there, especially in some of
these rooms.
And you'd be surprised whenpeople go in there.
Sometimes it's court mandate.
Sometimes guys go in there andthey stay in there because they
learned something.
They found something.
They found that peace.
(12:05):
The Bible says that surpassesall understanding.
So some of them would say afterthey've gone there for a couple
of years, I used to sit in theback over there and I used to
come in here saying, man, I'mnot like these people.
I don't need to be here.
And then they just keep comingback and coming back.
And then also now they'resharing out there.
I used to be one of those peoplesit in the back and thinking I
(12:26):
didn't have a problem.
SPEAKER_03 (12:28):
Well, that's what I wanted to find out is that you
said you started with alcohol,then went to barbiturates.
And then.
SPEAKER_02 (12:35):
One thing that I didn't like, I didn't like
shooting in my arms.
In high school, I mean, I waseven selling LSD.
So I went from San Fernando HighSchool to a predominantly
Hispanic and Black school inKennedy.
I mean, there was like 20Latinos in the whole school, and
they were predominantly white.
And they always called me Saul.
(12:56):
Hi, Saul.
I go, it's not Saul, it's Sal.
But anyway, I was the guy thatThat was salad to these kids.
I mean, I was a kid too, man.
But that's how you start.
You start with that.
And then it progressed with theLSD.
And then you switch over toopium and the smokiest opium and
all that stuff.
(13:16):
And that shot up.
But then the cocaine came in.
That's what got me down to myknees.
And that was my drug of choice.
I could not get a handle on it.
I tried every which way for20-something years.
trying to manage this on my own.
And I just, I could do it for alittle bit, but my willpower ran
(13:39):
out.
It just ran out.
For some reason, I just couldn'tdo it.
No matter how much I had or howmuch I would stop it, I would go
back.
I let it go for a little while.
But it does so much damage to aperson.
That becomes priority in yourlife.
And it did a lot of damage in mylife, my physical health, my
(14:00):
marriage, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (14:01):
Well, I know it's difficult to talk about, but
it's important to know about thedevastation of an addiction
because when somebody isaddicted, that's their whole
world.
The whole world is theiraddiction and everything that
they love is sort of canceledout or put to the side.
Can you give me some examples ofsome of the things that you went
(14:25):
through personally with yourmarriage or
SPEAKER_02 (14:28):
Yeah, addicts, we are very, very selfish people.
You know, very selfish becauseit's all about me.
Me, I, and myself, you know.
And you disregard family.
You disregard things that areimportant to you.
You don't realize the damagethat we're doing to our
children, our loved ones, ourspouses when we are in that
(14:49):
state of mind.
And we don't see it.
This is me.
I'm not hurting anybody.
Yeah, I am.
I don't realize that I am.
And there are people around us,especially if they see me like
that.
I've done a lot of stuff wheredriving like that and going
through airports, I mean, sohigh.
Going back to the use ofcocaine, I started a recovery
(15:13):
over 20 years ago.
And it was a place calledMatrix.
And it was in the 12 steps.
My wife told me, she says, youneed help.
You really need to get help.
You're killing yourself.
What are you doing?
You're this person.
at this age already, you know?
Because towards my latter years,that's when I really started
using cocaine.
It's like, wow, because Icouldn't have really afforded
(15:35):
that much back then, you know?
It was more of a rich man's eye.
Knowing the drug dealers and youstart knowing people, they hook
you up.
SPEAKER_03 (15:44):
At this point, I'm thinking that you're playing
with bands that are getting paidand you're starting to go on
tour and things like that.
SPEAKER_02 (15:53):
They want to hang out in the back.
They want to go to afterparties.
And a lot of times I knew thedrug dealers in this state and
that state and that state.
So they know I'm coming.
Hey, when you come in, want meto pick you up at the airport?
Uh, yeah.
What do you want?
You know what I want.
Okay.
And that's where it starts.
It's crazy.
There's never enough of thatstuff.
(16:13):
You know, you can be at sixo'clock in the morning and then
you have to function like that.
What I put my body through andyou have to do it over again,
over again.
It's like, How much can my bodytake?
How
SPEAKER_03 (16:24):
did it affect your body?
I mean, physically.
SPEAKER_02 (16:27):
Thank God, man.
It's like, I feel good rightnow, you know?
It didn't do the damage whereyou got guys that do meth and
their teeth fall out and they'reall sunken in.
I didn't hit that.
I hit top bottom, they call it,in recovery.
What does that mean?
Top bottom is like, okay, you'reat the last leg.
(16:49):
Either you jump off Or are yougoing to go to jail?
Are you going to die?
Are you going to kill somebody?
Or are you going to killyourself?
You know what I mean?
So I kind of hit top bottom.
I was able to save my marriage.
I was able to reconcile with mychildren.
You know what I mean?
Like the infidelity that camealong with it, all that had to
come to surface.
I had to, you know, repairthings.
(17:11):
You know, after 10 years, it'snot easy to accept that from the
other side.
You know what I mean?
Right, right.
It's a process, and I have todeal with it.
I have to work with that everyday.
That's why I have to keep goingto these meetings and knowing
that even though I did it 20years ago, I have 10 years.
Well, what happened to thoseother 10 years?
(17:33):
What happened is that once yougo in these rooms and you're
thinking you've got threemonths, you're good, you know
what?
I'm all right now.
I don't need to go to thesemeetings.
So you slack off.
You start getting complacent.
And what happens is you stopgoing to meetings and next thing
you know, at one time I had fiveyears clean, right?
And I stopped going to meetingsbecause I just got lazy.
(17:55):
Oh, I'm good.
I'm all right.
One month, two months, threemonths go by.
Six months, I haven't gotten nomeetings.
And I'm looking at thesecommercials, people walking by
in the hot summer, Midwest, witha cold beer.
And I go, man, that looks good.
My thinking's already startingto revive that old man again,
thinking I'm normal.
Alcohol really wasn't myproblem.
(18:16):
It was the cocaine.
So I thought to myself, well,maybe I can be a responsible
drinker.
Guys in the band knew I wasdrinking and recovering.
Well, well, well.
Next thing I would startsneaking beers in my hotel room.
Just like, see, I'm all right.
I'm all right.
You know, started two beers,three beers.
And then when I come home, Iknow the drug dealers.
(18:39):
And after four or five beers, Imake that phone call.
And next thing you know, I'mgoing over there and the whole
cycle started again.
SPEAKER_03 (18:47):
Yeah, I think that's important to point out because
I'm sure there was a lot ofdifferent times where you would
say, okay, I think I could justdo this in moderation.
Or I think I can just do thisone time.
SPEAKER_02 (19:04):
Yeah, for us addicts, because there are
normies out there.
Like my wife's an army.
My wife can have one drink for awhole year.
She can have one drink and zipit for the whole night.
You know, that's an army.
I'm not an army.
I had to come to terms andaccept the fact, you know what?
I'm okay not being an army.
(19:24):
Because I tried being thatresponsible guy and it just
didn't work.
One of the last ones that Itried with my wife and I said,
well, if you're with me, you canmonitor me.
You can, you know, Are you sure?
Yeah, I think that's going to befine.
We're in Hawaii with the beachand the palm trees and coconuts.
(19:45):
As soon as she left to go to thebathroom, I said, Bartender,
give me a double, hurry.
So, I mean, that was the addictbehavior, right?
The sneaking around, this, that.
Even that didn't work, trying tomonitor you.
So I had to come to terms that,you know what?
I have to do this.
I have to do this for my sanity.
(20:05):
And right now, having thisclarity for all these years.
And I still work recovery.
I still speak in differentplaces like this podcast.
And I speak at other rooms ofrecovery, NAAA.
And they're so powerful, man,because if you help somebody
out, it helps you.
Because it helps us tounderstand people.
(20:26):
We've become like therapists,you know?
SPEAKER_03 (20:31):
I think also this sense of purpose, knowing that
you can pass along yourexperience, and maybe save
somebody from what you had to gothrough.
SPEAKER_02 (20:42):
When I'm on the road and people are like, hey, do you
want something to drink?
No, I'm fine.
What's the matter?
You don't drink?
I go, I used to, but I don'tdrink anymore.
I'm in recovery.
I tell them that right away andthey go, oh, I'm sorry.
It's okay.
You don't have to apologize.
I go, I enjoy it.
They see that joy.
They see something that, hey, Ican have fun now.
I have more fun being sober thanI was using.
SPEAKER_03 (21:09):
Sometimes when you get into mental health issues or
addictions, you kind of slideinto it and it gets really bad
and life gets terrible.
But when you come out of it,there's another life out there,
one of appreciation.
I mean, how did your life changeafter you got clear?
How did it get better with yourrelationships, your music?
SPEAKER_02 (21:33):
Like even in the music, I mean, you hear things
that you didn't hear before.
Your ears just become like, wow.
And your clarity.
You can wake up in the morningand not go like, ah, you're
hungover and trying to get outof bed.
And then emotions come inbecause you're not used to it.
(21:54):
Your mind plays games on you toobecause now you think it's like,
oh, did I offend this person?
Did I do the right thing?
So you go through these steps inrecovery where you have to start
adjusting.
to that lifestyle because beforewe would just suppress it either
with smoking.
I was Bob Marley, man.
(22:14):
I was a Mexican Bob Marley in myneighborhood.
But once it starts clearing up,man, it's just like it's a
process.
It's still a process.
There's still a lot of things inthe 12-step.
It's never over.
We never finish.
And that's one thing about this.
Now I know that I have to stayplugged in.
I have to stay connected tolike-minded people, they say.
Right?
And they say in recovery, showme your friends and I'll tell
(22:37):
you who you are.
So I love hanging around withpeople that are in recovery.
I have my group of guys.
Then we go to men's homes andgroups and speak and, you know,
just give them life, give themhope.
Saying, hey, there's hope.
Because if I can do it, you cando it.
Just because I'm a musician, Iplayed in all over the place,
(22:57):
different places.
Addiction is no respect to aperson, no matter what creed,
color, how much money you got,how much you don't have.
Once it gets you, it gets you.
But that's why I have to keepcontinuing because I learned
from that last time I gotcomplacent.
And then the mind sits in againthat you're okay, you're normal,
(23:19):
you're healed.
I'll never be healed.
Just like diabetes, right?
You have to maintain your sugarlevel, your diet and all that
stuff.
You have to watch it.
SPEAKER_03 (23:29):
It takes a lot of discipline.
You know what I'm kind ofcurious about is because your
addiction, your journey has beena good amount of time, how your
partner works with you.
How has your wife played a partin your recovery?
SPEAKER_02 (23:45):
Putting the hammer down.
I mean, first of all, you need agood, strong woman to say, hey,
you're going to lose everything.
Is that the road you want to go?
That's it.
Once you're sober and then yourelapse, you go to the program.
She was coming with me to theseprograms and learning a lot.
(24:06):
But the disappointments and thedisappointments, you know what I
mean?
Those emotional roller coastersthat we put our loved ones
through.
Because a lot of addicts dothat.
How many times do you relapse?
Some of us make it and some ofus don't.
I was just one of thosefortunate ones that said, you
know what?
I don't want to go down thatway.
I don't want to go down and say,hey, what happened to Sal?
(24:26):
He OD'd or he was loaded, he gotin a car accident, he crashed
and he died or he killedsomebody.
I don't want to leave thatlegacy to my kids.
I don't want to leave that markon them because that'll be so
devastating forever.
So that's why I continue doingwhat I do and speaking in these
forums, especially in yourpodcast.
(24:48):
Man, I gravitate on that.
I want to be on that.
And I want to thank you fortaking your time and accepting
my invitation.
And anytime I can share and be alight to somebody or instill
hope, it's possible.
It can't be done.
I know guys in those recoveryrooms that spend 25 years in
(25:08):
jail, prison.
Now they've got their lives backtogether.
Why?
Because they work the program.
Don't work your own program thatdoesn't work.
You got to work the program thatworks.
SPEAKER_03 (25:19):
The thing too, if you have a support system of
other people that understand andare there to assist you,
especially when you're goingthrough something difficult or
maybe you feel like using, maybeyou call your buddy.
You've been doing the 12 stepsfor so long.
What do you feel for you are thekeys to the success of that
(25:40):
program?
SPEAKER_02 (25:41):
Keep coming back.
That's all.
Keep coming back.
Because some guys say, well, Idon't need that.
Well, that's fine.
But you want to grow withinyourself, understanding other
people's point of view andhaving empathy, seeing the world
through their eyes too.
When you walk in the room, whatdo they see?
How do they see me?
You know what I mean?
(26:01):
Do they see a fake guy?
Do they see a guy that talks toomuch about himself?
Sometimes it's listening.
Sometimes I sit in these roomsand I just listen because I'm
absorbing like a sponge.
It's awesome.
I love it.
SPEAKER_03 (26:15):
It's like truth is stranger than fiction when you
hear some of these stories.
SPEAKER_02 (26:19):
And it's real.
Yeah.
Like the song says, right?
You want to hear a real song?
You want to hear some realstories?
Some real recovery stories.
Recovery is another word to mefor restoration.
You're restoring something thatbelongs to you.
Life.
Life is given to us freely,right?
(26:42):
And so...
We can accept these things thatare given to us, but we get in
the way because we want to do itour way.
And what happens is 99% of thetimes our way doesn't work.
And if it works your way withouta program and everything,
majority of times they're angry,they're not happy.
But all these things, we callthem defects of character, which
(27:04):
is anger, all these things,resentment, unforgiveness,
making amends, finding yoursteps.
Once you understand these thingsand work the process, it's a
relief.
You start like, wow, I get itnow.
So there's a lot of things thatgo under that umbrella.
The mental struggles that we gothrough too, the emotional
(27:25):
roller coasters.
Even the guys that have been init for a long time, they have
their good days, they have theirbad days.
I have my good days and baddays.
But no matter what, I just won'tpick up and use.
I'm not going to have that onedrink because I think I deserve
it.
That's what I thought back then.
Well, I deserve it.
I got five years.
I should be good.
I deserve it.
(27:45):
You know, being an addict, beingan alcoholic, you have to remind
yourself, I'm not that person.
I'm not the normie, but I'm okaywith it.
Because the end result is like,wow, I'm glad I didn't use.
SPEAKER_03 (27:59):
And it takes so much strength and discipline to come
back from where you were.
And it's something that peoplein your support group are going
to give you credit for, but youmay not find that on a
day-to-day basis because mostpeople don't know what your
journey has been.
I'm curious though, becausebeing in the music industry, you
(28:22):
probably come across a goodshare of musicians that you feel
might be going down a bad roadwith alcohol or drugs.
SPEAKER_02 (28:30):
It's tough because a lot of them, we don't think we
have a problem.
We don't think we need help.
But a lot of times it's notpreaching to them.
It's just loving on them andkind of sharing with them.
And a lot of times it's seeinghow you handle things.
We just came from Kabul lastweek and I played drums for the
group war, but it was an openbar 24-7, drinks, food,
(28:55):
everything.
Of course, there's going to be alot of drinking, but it's just
so cool that that doesn't fazeme.
Because people are theredrinking in front of me, but
people are saying, it must betough on you going down the road
and people drinking all thatstuff.
And early recovery, yes.
But once you get, I call themthe training wheels.
You get your training wheelsoff, you know what I mean?
(29:16):
You got some sobriety time inyou.
You work the steps.
You've got a sponsor.
You keep working this program.
Then you got this embedded inyou.
It's like, man, my obsession isgone.
Like before, I get thesebutterflies.
Ooh, I know I'm going into thetown.
My dealer's there.
What am I going to do?
They say, you got to have aplan.
You got to have a plan.
(29:36):
Once you go into these places, Iwould call them up and say, hey,
when I was in recovery, I'd say,I'm coming into town, but
whatever you do, please don'tbring anything to me because I'm
working in recovery.
Because I didn't have a plan inmy early recoveries.
I would relapse, man.
That obsession came.
I was overpowering.
Or maybe just one.
(29:57):
That one landed to the next day.
I don't have his phone number.
And after three months, I'll goby.
It's like, I got to get a holdof this guy.
I need to get something.
So I'll call somebody.
Oh, you're back.
I need a break.
But what broke that cycle is Ihad the plan.
I had to tell the guy.
I went to his house.
I knocked on his door.
(30:17):
He's a good friend of mine.
But he was one big supplierhere.
And I said, can I talk to youfor a minute?
He goes, yeah, man, what's up?
And I brought him.
I said, hey, can you just do mea favor?
He says, what's that?
I says, look, I'm in recoverynow.
And whatever I do, if I comehere, please don't sell me
anything.
I love you.
(30:38):
You're still my friend.
But do me that favor.
Can you do that for me?
And he goes, OK.
Gave him a hug.
10 years later.
But I had to do something likethat.
I had to take those steps totake control of myself.
Because I tried doing it on myown, sneaking here, sneaking
there, white wine, maybe on theweekends, and it just didn't
(30:59):
work.
I have to be completelyabstinent from any kind of
substance.
And if I'm around people that dohard drugs and stuff, I'm out.
I can hang around a little bit,but after a while, the stories
stay the same.
I got to go.
See you.
SPEAKER_03 (31:15):
You're on tour.
You've been touring for decades.
And you are an incredibledrummer.
I know that you were also withTierra and played with Duke
Ellington and had such a long,successful career.
Being in recovery, how do youkeep up with the 12-step program
while you're on tour?
Do you ever go to a meeting inanother
SPEAKER_02 (31:37):
city?
We went to a cruise last year.
It was the Soul Train Cruise.
I went to a meeting.
I said, oh, there's an AAmeeting.
But a lot of times when you'reon the road, you got phones, you
got your apps, you got yourbooks.
So you're in the hotel room.
A lot of times there's phonecalls calling guys that, you
(31:58):
know, they're in the program.
The program that I work is afaith-based program, which we
work the 12-step, but we applyChrist as our higher power.
We welcome everybody of anyfaith.
You know, me and Emilio gettogether.
We talk about that because he'sa believer.
He's a born-again Christian.
He helped me in my earlyrecovery one time.
(32:18):
He goes, Sal, we were playingwith Tower of Power.
It was Warren Tower of Power.
He came up, he goes, he's reallythat smile.
He goes, so how's it going, Sal?
And I go, I was complainingabout this, that, that.
He goes, you're a believer,right?
Well, you have eternal life.
What are you worried about?
And he smiles and he walks away.
And I'm going like, that's allhe's got to say?
(32:40):
I thanked him later on.
I said, it made me think.
The little simple little thingsthat I complain about doesn't
matter.
It didn't matter to me.
So that's it.
It's not for everybody.
That's why I tell people thatit's not about religion.
It's about you getting ittogether for yourself.
However you can do it, Iencourage it.
(33:01):
Getting under an umbrella,another structure that'll help
you.
Because if you deal with mentalhealth issues, that would help
you too.
If you get a personal therapist,that's definitely going to help
you too.
So whatever program you choosethat's working for you, keep it.
Work it.
But you have to work theprogram.
It says it works if you work it.
(33:22):
So no matter what program youchoose, if it's working for you,
choose that.
Because that's the one that'sgoing to keep your sanity
together.
Because it's tough out there.
Even though we still work theprogram, you can still be sober.
We still go through theemotional roller coasters.
SPEAKER_03 (33:38):
Now that you're free of your addictions, what is it
that makes you happy now?
beyond your incredible music?
SPEAKER_02 (33:47):
With that, it's just doing what I do as far as even
the little simple things, juststuff like this.
I look forward to things likethat because what happens, it
brings life to people.
When you can instill, we coulddrop a seed in there or water a
seed, you know what I mean?
And you can make a difference insomebody's life.
(34:07):
That's what makes me I getexcited about that too.
When I hear other testimony,people on the road in the past
where I've talked to them andgive them life, give them hope.
You know what I mean?
That, that makes me feel good.
It's just, there's something tome then.
And it's free.
You got to be open, open-minded.
(34:28):
We try something different.
That's that you have been tryingfor all these years.
It's not working.
Why are you still depressed?
Why are you still broke?
Why is that?
happening to you because youkeep doing the same thing over
and over and expecting a change.
You don't change.
Nothing's going to change.
You got to do something oppositeof what you're doing to start
(34:49):
creating that change.
And the more you do it, the moreyou get to that point where,
wow, you know, it's okay.
You know, I'm all right.
I can take the training wheelsoff and start helping people.
But this thing is a lifetimejourney.
And it's the same thing like ifa person wants to be on a diet
and they're really strugglingwith health, it's never over.
(35:10):
Because you can go on a diet andlose all this weight and
thinking that you're fine and goback to your old eating habits
and guess what?
SPEAKER_03 (35:18):
It's all about changing your lifestyle, really,
and your way of thinking.
SPEAKER_02 (35:22):
People that I know that died because of COVID, some
of them got hit really hard.
Like when we talk about themental rollercoaster that we go
through, including myself withCOVID, it's like, man, we don't
know where this thing was goingto go.
And I'm a touring musician.
So everything, the carpet went,just swept right under me.
SPEAKER_03 (35:41):
I know it was a shock for everyone.
And plus your entire lifestylehas to change.
And as a musician, it's a highfor you, right?
It's a natural high to go andplay to the fans.
That kind of feeds your energyas you feed the fans energy.
I mean, I miss live music somuch.
SPEAKER_02 (36:03):
That's just in our DNA, man.
We're entertainers.
We entertain people.
And when that's taken away fromyou after 40-something years on
the road, what?
You know, it's like, we don'tknow what's going to happen
little by little.
I didn't get the virus, and Ikept my distance.
I did get vaccinated.
I got the Johnson& Johnson.
(36:23):
I'm proud of it, and I feelbetter about it.
It's just about respect, right?
So, and I'm good.
SPEAKER_03 (36:30):
Well, one thing that I admire about you is that
you've had this long andsuccessful career.
Do you have any just simplewords of wisdom for musicians
that are up and coming, thingsto be aware of to have that
successful career?
SPEAKER_02 (36:47):
You have to stay active, being positive, and
you've got to be careful withyour surroundings and always
learning.
because we're always students oflife.
I just say, stay active insomething positive.
Make a difference in somebodyelse's life, because there's
somebody out there strugglingmore than you.
SPEAKER_03 (37:08):
Next, our featured expert is Jeff Duke, the founder
of Christ Powered Recovery, orCPR, a nationwide addiction
program based on AlcoholicAnonymous' original 12 steps,
but proves to be different inits approach.
Jeff shares how Sal and manyothers have gotten clean from
addiction, got their joyfullives back, and now help others
(37:28):
in their own mental health andaddiction journeys.
Now let's hear Jeff Duke sharehis knowledge and solutions.
SPEAKER_00 (37:36):
I do two programs.
I go to Alcoholics Anonymous,which I've been involved in for
the whole 26 years.
And the program that Sal likesto do is called Christ Powered
Recovery CPR.
I started that in January of2009.
And the reason I did that, therewas religious conflicts from
people within AA because of ahigher power concept, which is
(37:58):
very important.
So I started that program CPR asa non-religious program.
So I really want to say thatright off the bat as a
non-religious program wherepeople can choose a higher
power.
And if they believed in otherthings, they would love to be
there as well.
Buddha, Muhammad, we could allget along together and learn to
grow.
(38:18):
But actually get to know our Godin a more personal way.
SPEAKER_03 (38:22):
Well, thank you so much for doing that because
everyone should feel welcome ina recovery or support meeting.
We just heard from Sal Rodriguezof WAR.
And he mentioned you as beingsomewhat significant in his life
as far as recovery and the12-step program.
SPEAKER_00 (38:40):
So the cool thing when you have the 12-step rooms,
we're all equals.
So when I got to know Sal, Ididn't know him from Adam.
He was just somebody that wasstruggling at the time.
We became friends and got toknow each other.
I didn't know about war or hisother musical accomplishments.
We just knew each other as onealcoholic addict to another.
(39:01):
And we built a friendship.
And that's when I found out Saland Lowrider and Cisco Kid and
all that great history.
SPEAKER_03 (39:08):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, war's music has spanneddecades, right?
Grandparents, parents, kids,which is really a wonderful
thing to see music unitingpeople in that way.
And he mentioned you as being amentor during this whole
program.
Is that one of the steps to havea mentor or be a buddy?
(39:30):
It
SPEAKER_00 (39:31):
is.
It is.
If you look in the world, we'resort of taught to be alone.
Yet in the rooms, we're taughtto have people to go to and
really talk about what'shappening in our lives.
It's really contrary to theworld.
I mean, we talk about mentalhealth issues.
For us to be able to talk toanother man or another woman and
say, I'm really not doing well,or I want to learn to grow in
(39:53):
this area, or I'm really good atthis, but just communicate our
feelings in regards to alcoholand drugs.
Because they were just a symptomof what was inside the heart
about those underlying things.
So yes, in the 12-step rooms, wecall it sponsor, mentor.
Mentor is a great word.
And the longer you get to knowpeople, those become really deep
(40:16):
bonds.
Because as Sal would share hispros and cons, I would do the
same with him.
We become very intimate thatway.
SPEAKER_03 (40:24):
Well, I also heard of the term sober buddy,
where...
Others can call each other ifthey feel like they're going
through something where theymight relapse or maybe they're
going through a mental healthstruggle that's tied with this
addiction.
Is that part of it as well?
SPEAKER_00 (40:42):
Sober buddies, to me, it's a different term.
Like if you use the word asponsor, it's more of an upline.
where you're like, hey, you'vebeen around a little longer than
me, and I want you to helpmentor me, if you use that word.
Sober buddy is cool.
Those are like people that wewalk with on a daily basis, and
that is super important too.
I have a ton of sober buddies.
(41:02):
I mean, if you look at my phone,all day long my phone is ringing
with sober buddies, whether it'ssomebody that's been sober for a
week or people that have beenwalking in the program longer
than me.
There's a passage from theAlcoholics Anonymous big book It
talks about we're like survivorsfrom a shipwreck to where we
have these instant bonds withpeople because they speak my
(41:25):
language and I speak theirs.
SPEAKER_03 (41:28):
You know, one thing I found in a support group And I
know the 12-step program reliesalso on support and testimonials
from other people sharing theirstories.
When I first had the idea ofgoing to a support group, I did
not want to go.
That was something that wasscary.
It was a bunch of strangers.
And what am I doing?
(41:49):
How is this going to help?
But once I was really pushed togo, I realized the benefits
really quickly.
You know, what do you see in thesupport groups that has been
eye-opening or life-changing forothers who come into the group?
SPEAKER_00 (42:06):
Great question.
I don't think anybody willinglygoes to a 12-step group.
It's like, hi, I'm powerless andmy life is in shambles.
How are you?
So it takes a lot of humility towalk into a room and say, I just
need some help.
One of the things I think is abedrock of good 12-step groups
is loving and open arms topeople.
(42:26):
I'll give you an example.
I've been to some groups and youwalk in and everybody knows
everybody.
And you walk in and you're justscared, frightened, and alone.
And you leave sometimes evenmore frightened, scared, and
alone.
So the good groups, and I'mgoing to say 90%, will find
somebody like yourself or myselfwalking in.
You can pick us out.
You know that look on our face.
And so people will reach out andoffer help and offer support,
(42:50):
offer assistance.
Even sometimes it's just like atouch.
on the shoulder just to say,it's going to be okay.
That's what saved my life.
I would just like you, I was 25years old.
And even at 25, there was mentalhealth issues that were related
to alcohol and drugs.
So those people saved my life bybeing warm, open and embracing,
(43:14):
not knowing me from Adam, butjust being a this person needs
help, we're going to help.
And I think that that Like Saland myself and other 12-step
people, that's the thing that wedo.
We open the doors for thatperson that comes in that needs
help after us and continue to golong after.
We've been sober years and yearsand years as Sal has and as I
(43:36):
have.
SPEAKER_03 (43:38):
Yeah, I do think that once people really start to
reveal a story, they might feelembarrassed or shame a story.
We don't necessarily talk aboutin regular conversation that are
put out in a meeting, youimmediately can feel comfortable
in knowing that when you shareyour story, there's not going to
(44:00):
be embarrassment or shame, thatthere's going to be a sense of
acceptance because others in thesame room may have been going
through the same or similarstory.
So there's definitely a bondingthat happens.
SPEAKER_00 (44:14):
It's a safe place because of autonomy.
and anonymity.
So what you hear there, we don'ttalk about it afterwards.
So if Jeff had a fight with thechild or Jeff had a fight with
the wife or Jeff is having aproblem, I can share it in a
group and it stays in the group.
SPEAKER_03 (44:29):
Right, there's confidentiality.
And that's so important,especially, let's say, for
somebody like Sal, who is a verypublic figure, who might be
concerned about what might comeout of the group.
So confidentiality is soimportant with musicians.
But people in general.
We're not going to go throughall the 12 steps, because I know
(44:51):
that's a lot.
But what do you feel are somethat are really pivotal in
adhering to?
SPEAKER_00 (45:00):
There's a couple and I'll try to consolidate it for
you.
Any obsessive compulsive, it'sgoing to be the first step where
we can't do a certain act,whether it's gambling, drinking,
drugs, food, sex, whatever itcan be.
We have to draw a line in thesand.
Say this behavior one day at atime has to cease because it
(45:22):
makes our lives unmanageable.
We go, we seek a higher power.
And what that does is it allowsus to go deeper into ourselves
with our creator, whomever wechoose that to be.
As we grow, we work oninventories.
What are the positive assets ofour lives or the defects?
And we work on those.
We applaud the one and we workon the other.
(45:42):
And then as we go out there andwe try to make amends to atone
the things that we did, that'sfor the people we hurt as well
as ourselves to say we're notthat person anymore.
At that point, we learn how topray and meditate.
But the ending, which is thecoolest part, is the 12th step,
which is having a spiritualawakening as a result of these
(46:03):
steps.
We carry this message to otheralcoholics and practice these
principles.
For people like Sal and I, wedon't retire.
We don't get all better and thenjust stay home.
We go out there and we get thesegreat lives because that
obsession's been removed.
We make it our life's purpose tohelp other people.
and not be selfish, but to giveback, which was so freely given
(46:24):
to us.
SPEAKER_03 (46:26):
One thing that you said was obsessive compulsive
attributes to addiction.
And I like that because it seemsthat Most people don't come in
with just one addiction.
There could be multipleaddictions that are going on.
I mean, do you believe in thiswhole idea of an addictive
personality, or do you feel likeit's more of an obsessive,
(46:50):
compulsive thing?
SPEAKER_00 (46:51):
That's open to debate, but I would say the
obsessive, because a lot of themgo together.
A lot of people, we have primaryand secondary addictions that we
don't even know about.
Because we're so busy puttingout the flames on the one, the
other one is sort of sidelined.
And as we grow and stop one ofthem, the other one will often
rise.
That's why it's so important tocontinue to work on ourselves
(47:14):
and look at what our positiveattributes are and our negative
attributes.
As you get away from the primaryone, for myself, it was alcohol
and drugs.
I could see my other characterdefects and work on those as
well.
SPEAKER_03 (47:26):
you really have to be honest with yourself because
I would think that if you putout the flame to one addiction,
that you can replace it withanother or
SPEAKER_04 (47:37):
to
SPEAKER_03 (47:38):
try to soothe whatever it is that's
underlying.
Talking about what's underlying,a lot of people will try to
soothe these emotions that theyfind to be difficult with these
addictions.
Right.
When you get to that point whereit's like, okay, we have to deal
(47:58):
with these emotions, whathappens at that point?
Because that seems like a wholeother chapter.
I
SPEAKER_00 (48:03):
always say pain is the great litigator.
So usually as we go, things getmore and more painful.
So as I don't drink and use, thepain in the other areas are
going to be coming up.
And this also comes up, you usethe word sober buddies and
mentors.
Those things come up.
(48:24):
If I'm sober, but I'm having aproblem with my anger, I'm
having a problem with food, I'mhaving a problem going to the
casino, these things are comingup.
And by having people in my life,they help keep me accountable
and make me look at those thingsand say, well, is that healthy?
Now, we're not saying to stopeverything, but there's healthy
and unhealthy behaviors.
(48:45):
Most people can go to Las Vegasfor the weekend, but they don't
take their rent money and theircar money and put it on black.
So these things often come upthe longer we go.
And that's what the 12 steps arefor, not just for the alcohol
and drugs, but to work on theother obsessive compulsive
disorders.
And that can be done.
It's shown it works, but we haveto keep looking at ourselves.
SPEAKER_03 (49:07):
And dealing with those emotions and having to
work through those difficulttraumas or situations that we
try to bury away.
Do people usually work throughthat in the support group or do
they go to therapists?
Because that sounds like thetough part, but the part that
(49:28):
once it's healed can make thingsmuch better in your life.
SPEAKER_00 (49:32):
Well, I can answer that question.
It's all the above.
So for myself, I'll give you theexample where I didn't know my
father and I worked on that mywhole life.
So I had a chip on my shoulderfrom that.
So it's not recommended usuallyfor people to go to therapists
when you're just trying to getsober because you're just sick
and you're just spewing things.
You don't even know yourself.
So you have to remove thealcohol and drugs.
(49:54):
But yes, I did do therapy aftera considerable period of years
sober to work on myself and totalk about those things that
hurt me and to become, there wasa word acceptance therapy.
into things.
Also, I share about things ingroup because I know that it's a
safe place, but that takes along time to be able to do that.
So this one, there was no rightanswer on your question.
(50:16):
Therapy is great.
Working with mentors, sponsors,sober buddies within the group,
whatever works to get yourselfbetter is the answer.
SPEAKER_03 (50:25):
You talked about complacency when it comes to
addiction, meaning that let'ssay you're five years sober and
you think okay i think i canhandle this drink i think i
could do this in moderation imean do you find that's a common
mistake or misconception thathappens with addicts
SPEAKER_00 (50:45):
yes any kind of obsessive compulsive though it's
like somebody that gets betterwhen they they take a drug like
zoloft or then they feel betterand then once they're off it
they say well i don't need itanymore so it can be the same
thing with alcoholics andaddicts to where We go to
meetings for so long, we're ofservice.
We say, well, I'm feeling reallygood.
I don't need this anymore.
(51:06):
But the problem is the verything that helped us get better,
we stopped doing.
And that's being of service toother people, our conscious
contact with our higher power.
We stopped looking at ourselves.
So that does happen at times,and you'll often see people
relapse, which means they'll goback to what they were addicted
to in the first place becausethey forgot.
So for myself, being 26 yearssober, I never forgot the last
(51:30):
day that I drank and used.
Just like in any obsessivecompulsive disorder, you have to
remember the last day.
Because if you forget,eventually it's going to come
back.
I remember the pain.
And I never want that to comeback.
SPEAKER_03 (51:43):
You know, I would think that one of the biggest
struggles is getting somebody toaccept that, okay, I...
have depression and it's alifelong thing, or I have
alcoholism.
It's a lifelong thing that Ineed to take care of and really
be on top of, even though Ihaven't had an issue in the past
(52:06):
five years.
SPEAKER_00 (52:08):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (52:08):
And I would think that that's a journey to finally
get to that point.
It
SPEAKER_00 (52:13):
is.
And that's the word acceptance.
You used a word earlier,honesty.
That's a bedrock of recovery,being honest about it.
Most of us have struggled a longtime.
Like for alcoholism and drugaddicts, a lot of us felt out of
place and just out of sync ourwhole lives, like aliens in a
world.
And so alcohol and drugs maskedit.
(52:35):
So for myself, I always had toremember, yes, I have this
problem regardless of how manyyears.
It's still there.
Depression, the same thing.
A lot of alcoholics and drugaddicts mask it by drugs and
alcohol.
And even after a period oftimes, it's called recovery.
not recovered.
And if you're going throughsomething, you don't have to do
(52:56):
it alone.
I just find it very gratifyingto be able to work with people
and watch people that were sodysfunctional become so
functional, but so grateful forthe second opportunity In life
where a lot of us were like atop bottom, we were destined for
jails, institutions, and death.
Instead, we're out there havingrelationships, successful
(53:18):
relationships, becomingsuccessful in the world,
whatever we're doing,
SPEAKER_04 (53:23):
and
SPEAKER_00 (53:23):
just helping other people instead of just being a
consumer, which is whatobsessive compulsive is, take,
take, take, rather than in therooms, give, give, give.
SPEAKER_03 (53:33):
A big thank you to our musical guest, Sal Rodriguez
of WAR, and our recovery expert,Jeff Duke.
For more information on WAR,visit WAR.com, look out for WAR
on tour, and also on the SuperLegends Cruise in 2022,
headlining with their friendsTower of Power.
Follow WAR on their socials atWAR the Band, and stay tuned for
(53:54):
a clip of WAR's single, All DayMusic, at the end of our
episode.
For more information onChrist-Powered Recovery, visit
ChristPoweredRecovery.org.
And thanks to everyone forfollowing us on our socials at
Check Your Head Podcast and alsofor your kind donations on our
website atCheckYourHeadPodcast.com, where
you'll find plenty of free andaffordable mental health
(54:16):
solutions.
So until next time, be brave,ask for help, and be persistent
in finding the mental healththat you need.
SPEAKER_01 (54:29):
Check
SPEAKER_03 (54:52):
Your Head podcast is kindly supported and partnered
with Sweet Relief MusiciansFund, DBSA San Gabriel Valley,
Earshot Media, and Lemon TreeStudios in Los Angeles.
Visit checkyourheadpodcast.comwhere we have over 100 solutions
for mental health.
Be our friends on social mediaat Check Your Head Podcast.
(55:13):
Watch us on YouTube and supportus with a kind donation on
checkyourheadpodcast.com.
Check Your Head Podcast issponsored by a 501c3 nonprofit
with all donations being taxdeductible.
Thank you for your support andthank you for listening.
Welcome to the Check Your Head podcast, the podcast
where notable musicians andexperts share their stories and
solutions for mental health andwellness.
I'm your host, Mari Fong, amusic journalist and life coach
for musicians, and I'm excitedto have an icon as our featured
musical guest.
(00:22):
He's been a member of a Latinsoul funk band who's celebrating
52 years playing and touring theworld.
Can you guess who this is?
SPEAKER_01 (00:30):
Yes, it's the band War,
SPEAKER_03 (00:42):
whose hits not only include Lowrider, but Why Can't
We Be Friends, The Cisco Kid,Spill the Wine, and my personal
favorite, All Day Music.
Today I interview drummer andpercussionist Sal Rodriguez of
War, a long-time musician andalso a stand-up comedian.
Sal was inspired by hearing hisfriend Emilio Castillo of Tower
(01:04):
of Power on the Check Your Headpodcast and also wanted to share
his solutions for theobsessive-compulsive behaviors
that led to his drug and alcoholaddictions.
Next, we have an expert that wasinstrumental in Sal's recovery,
Jeff Duke, the founder ofChrist-Powered Recovery, or CPR,
a program based on the original12 Steps.
(01:24):
Jeff is also Sal's recoverymentor, who shares how this
program helped Sal in hislifelong recovery and led him to
a happier, more fulfilling life.
But first, let's hear SalRodriguez of WAR share his
story.
SPEAKER_02 (01:38):
It started for me, I mean, at an early age.
My father had a group, and thisis like in the 60s.
They were called Los Grenudos,which means the long-haired
guys, because of the Beatles.
When you're really young andyou're going to these parties
and you're seeing people havinga great time dancing and
(02:02):
drinking.
I didn't see any hard drugs backthen, just alcohol.
So you think, well, that's whatadults do.
Adults have fun by drinking anddancing.
So you want to experience that.
We want to reach people.
for that age when you're 21,when you can buy alcohol.
(02:22):
Of course, in my days, we alwaysgot alcohol.
I don't know how we askedsomebody older than us to buy
alcohol.
But you will sneak a beer hereand there when you're kids.
I mean, you think it's a thrill,man.
Wow, you sneak around and have ahouse party.
You sneak a beer and take it outto the back and drink it,
thinking, wow, this is so cool.
But as I got to being ateenager, You want to be like
(02:44):
your rock and roll heroes, man,like Hendrix, Bonham, and mostly
everybody was drinking,partying, having a good time.
I was just like, well, that'swhat rock stars do.
They drink, they use, theysmoke, and this lifestyle
becomes an everyday thing.
One time I was 17 years old, andI remember I asked myself, am I
(03:07):
an alcoholic?
Because every night I go tosleep, I mean, I'm drunk.
I mean, I have to be literallydrunk.
Now, falling down and passingout, you know, you don't think
of that as a progression.
You know, it keeps going andgoing.
SPEAKER_03 (03:22):
Was there anybody in your family or friends that
talked to you about alcohol?
Did they notice that maybe
SPEAKER_02 (03:28):
you were drinking too much?
No, because everybody was doingthe same thing.
You know, all my friends, we allhang out with musicians.
And what do we do?
First thing we do in the morningis You got the turntable, you
put your favorite record on, youclean out your herbs, and then
you get tuned in for your day.
You know, I live with mom anddad, so I didn't have rent.
(03:49):
I wasn't married.
I didn't have kids.
And so that was my everydaything, man.
Your dream is being a full-timemusician and playing.
And I want to be like the guysin Grand Funk Railroad, Chicago,
Tower of Power.
You know, when you go to theseconcerts, man, you go, man,
that's what I want to do, man.
That's my life, man.
I want to do that.
And that was just the way oflife.
(04:11):
Drinking, like the weekend, fromFriday to Saturday to Sunday,
I'd be like, man, don't theyever sleep?
It's like, they keep going.
Six o'clock in the morning,they're playing guitars, they're
strumming away, drinking.
SPEAKER_03 (04:23):
I know, that's it.
It's like a musician'slifestyle.
There's no hours in the day orthe night.
Things kind of blend together.
one into the other.
But, you know, one thing youwere saying is that starting
with alcohol, it leads you intoother things.
SPEAKER_02 (04:39):
It sure does.
SPEAKER_03 (04:40):
And what was that?
SPEAKER_02 (04:42):
It progresses to other things.
I mean, when that startedhappening, I started
experimenting with barbiturates.
In junior high, we called itjunior high back then.
It's middle school now.
So that was the end thing backthen.
The early 70s was thebarbiturates.
We call them reds.
And that's what was popular.
(05:02):
And some of my friends were evenOD back then in junior high.
They were somebody who wasdriving in a car and they
wrecked and they died andmusician friends.
And because the drugs, thedrinking, everything could
happen to them, you know?
SPEAKER_03 (05:18):
How about yourself?
If you were taking barbituratesor alcohol, what was your close
call?
What was your wake-up call thatit was getting bad?
SPEAKER_02 (05:28):
It takes a lot of wake-up calls, you know what I
mean?
Because when you're in thatstate of mind and you're still
functioning, you could be afunctioning addict, a
functioning alcoholic, afunctioning heroin addict, and
you function.
You learn how to function underthat.
So when you're in that state ofmind that, hey, I can still play
drums, I still do this, but thatstill takes control over your
(05:51):
life.
And I think some of the wake-upcalls that I had, you know,
sometimes I'm driving and I go,how did I get home?
What happened?
Sometimes you get in theseblackouts.
Not much, but that didn't stopme getting pulled over and
arrested for DUI.
I mean, this is back in the 70s,man.
I've been driving so many timesunder the influence.
It's amazing.
(06:11):
I didn't physically hurtanybody, you know.
And we had a lot of close calls.
I'm just so grateful andthankful that that didn't happen
to me or I didn't hurt anybody.
Because one of my dearest,closest friends was killed in a
car accident from a drunkdriver.
And we grew up playing music anddrums and dreaming the same
(06:31):
thing.
You know what I mean?
We'll go to concerts together.
We're going to be in hiswedding.
We were in high school when thishappened.
Just freshly out of high school.
So, I mean, we're still youngback then.
He was a close friend, a guythat you hung out with and
played music together.
And then all of a sudden, hegets killed by a drunk driver.
It's like, wow.
And they both didn't make it.
(06:53):
You know, it was a head-oncollision.
The other guy was so drunk.
But these kind of things, youdon't think that it can happen
to you.
But it does happen.
We just don't know howvulnerable we are for these
accidents or for these tragediesto happen until it happens.
And sometimes people wind up injail.
(07:14):
I have three, I can say rightoff the bat, three dear close
friends that were killed by adrunk driver.
And it's just hard.
SPEAKER_03 (07:25):
The other thing is sometimes mental issues can lead
to drinking or sometimesexcessive drinking and drug use
can lead to mental issues.
Some people who go deep intoalcoholism can get into
depression, sometimes can causepanic attacks.
What was it for you?
(07:46):
Were there any mental issuesinvolved before or after you
started drinking and drugs?
SPEAKER_02 (07:52):
No, I don't think there was a mental issue there.
It's just a lifestyle that Iacquired being around people
that were in the music business.
But since I've been workingrecovery the last 10 years, I
mean, you hear thesetestimonies.
You talk about being honest andbeing transparent, right?
It's about being transparent andnot hiding anything because when
(08:15):
you hide something, that meansyou're ashamed.
Of course, there's a right timeand the right place to do that.
There's these rooms of recovery.
I mean, you talk aboutdepression, people that's been
sexually abused by familymembers, by parents, abandonment
issues.
You got all these issues.
You just try to fill in thatgap, that void, that emptiness.
(08:39):
There's so much out there thatgoes under that umbrella of
depression, of anxiety, ofpeople that hold resentments
forever.
They don't know how to releaseit and let it go.
And the power of forgiveness isso powerful.
But it's a process.
That's why recovery is a one dayat a time.
(09:01):
We take these steps.
So where I'm going, we work the12-step program.
So like an NA or an AA, we havethese steps.
We get a sponsor.
We go through these steps.
We write them out.
The first step, I make that I ampowerless over blah, blah, blah,
whatever your addiction is.
And then in my life, I becomeunmanageable.
(09:23):
Step one, we have to admit thatwe have a problem.
SPEAKER_03 (09:26):
That's like the hardest step, it seems like,
right?
SPEAKER_02 (09:29):
There's so many people in denial, friends that
are in denial.
So you try to talk to them.
How do you let them know?
It's like, bro, you got aproblem, man.
That's going to be my part,reaching out.
Just have a hard, hard talk tothem because...
It's so important to the lovedones that you plant that seed,
that you let them know that youcare about them, first of all.
And something happens when youcome to these rooms and you see
(09:51):
life with clarity now.
You know what I mean?
So much stuff opens up and youhear other people's testimonies.
You're going like, wow, I'm notalone.
I'm not the only one goingthrough this.
Whether it's a mental thing,whether it's abandonment issues,
because a lot of the times it'sabandonment issues.
The father left.
(10:12):
I don't know who my dad is.
Not in my case, but you hearthat in these recovery rooms,
that they were molested byeither their parents or somebody
in the family and they try tosuppress it by taking drugs and
taking this and taking that andjust rebelling against society.
And so it's very eye-awakening,man, when you go into these
(10:36):
rooms and And you sit there andlisten because not only do I go
there because I enjoy goingthere, but I like listening to
the stories and support too.
When I talk to people aboutrecovery, oh, I don't have, I'm
okay, I don't need that.
Well, there could be otherthings that you can learn from
this thing too, you know what Imean?
(10:57):
But knowing that there are otherissues that people don't like to
talk about.
SPEAKER_03 (11:02):
Yeah, I think that's really the thing is that There's
so many traumas, there's anger,there's hurt, there's grief and
sadness, and these emotions thata lot of people don't want to
show.
But what happens is if we pushthose down or try to bury them
or try to erase them with drugsor alcohol, they seem to come
(11:24):
back, but in an unhealthy way,in a maybe dysfunctional way.
So it's finding ways to get allof that out.
All of those toxic feelings sothat you can kind of make sense
of it and also get otherpeople's perspectives.
SPEAKER_02 (11:44):
And there's a lot of times people feel that people
don't care.
You know what I mean?
But there are people that careout there, especially in some of
these rooms.
And you'd be surprised whenpeople go in there.
Sometimes it's court mandate.
Sometimes guys go in there andthey stay in there because they
learned something.
They found something.
They found that peace.
(12:05):
The Bible says that surpassesall understanding.
So some of them would say afterthey've gone there for a couple
of years, I used to sit in theback over there and I used to
come in here saying, man, I'mnot like these people.
I don't need to be here.
And then they just keep comingback and coming back.
And then also now they'resharing out there.
I used to be one of those peoplesit in the back and thinking I
(12:26):
didn't have a problem.
SPEAKER_03 (12:28):
Well, that's what I wanted to find out is that you
said you started with alcohol,then went to barbiturates.
And then.
SPEAKER_02 (12:35):
One thing that I didn't like, I didn't like
shooting in my arms.
In high school, I mean, I waseven selling LSD.
So I went from San Fernando HighSchool to a predominantly
Hispanic and Black school inKennedy.
I mean, there was like 20Latinos in the whole school, and
they were predominantly white.
And they always called me Saul.
(12:56):
Hi, Saul.
I go, it's not Saul, it's Sal.
But anyway, I was the guy thatThat was salad to these kids.
I mean, I was a kid too, man.
But that's how you start.
You start with that.
And then it progressed with theLSD.
And then you switch over toopium and the smokiest opium and
all that stuff.
(13:16):
And that shot up.
But then the cocaine came in.
That's what got me down to myknees.
And that was my drug of choice.
I could not get a handle on it.
I tried every which way for20-something years.
trying to manage this on my own.
And I just, I could do it for alittle bit, but my willpower ran
(13:39):
out.
It just ran out.
For some reason, I just couldn'tdo it.
No matter how much I had or howmuch I would stop it, I would go
back.
I let it go for a little while.
But it does so much damage to aperson.
That becomes priority in yourlife.
And it did a lot of damage in mylife, my physical health, my
(14:00):
marriage, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (14:01):
Well, I know it's difficult to talk about, but
it's important to know about thedevastation of an addiction
because when somebody isaddicted, that's their whole
world.
The whole world is theiraddiction and everything that
they love is sort of canceledout or put to the side.
Can you give me some examples ofsome of the things that you went
(14:25):
through personally with yourmarriage or
SPEAKER_02 (14:28):
Yeah, addicts, we are very, very selfish people.
You know, very selfish becauseit's all about me.
Me, I, and myself, you know.
And you disregard family.
You disregard things that areimportant to you.
You don't realize the damagethat we're doing to our
children, our loved ones, ourspouses when we are in that
(14:49):
state of mind.
And we don't see it.
This is me.
I'm not hurting anybody.
Yeah, I am.
I don't realize that I am.
And there are people around us,especially if they see me like
that.
I've done a lot of stuff wheredriving like that and going
through airports, I mean, sohigh.
Going back to the use ofcocaine, I started a recovery
(15:13):
over 20 years ago.
And it was a place calledMatrix.
And it was in the 12 steps.
My wife told me, she says, youneed help.
You really need to get help.
You're killing yourself.
What are you doing?
You're this person.
at this age already, you know?
Because towards my latter years,that's when I really started
using cocaine.
It's like, wow, because Icouldn't have really afforded
(15:35):
that much back then, you know?
It was more of a rich man's eye.
Knowing the drug dealers and youstart knowing people, they hook
you up.
SPEAKER_03 (15:44):
At this point, I'm thinking that you're playing
with bands that are getting paidand you're starting to go on
tour and things like that.
SPEAKER_02 (15:53):
They want to hang out in the back.
They want to go to afterparties.
And a lot of times I knew thedrug dealers in this state and
that state and that state.
So they know I'm coming.
Hey, when you come in, want meto pick you up at the airport?
Uh, yeah.
What do you want?
You know what I want.
Okay.
And that's where it starts.
It's crazy.
There's never enough of thatstuff.
(16:13):
You know, you can be at sixo'clock in the morning and then
you have to function like that.
What I put my body through andyou have to do it over again,
over again.
It's like, How much can my bodytake?
How
SPEAKER_03 (16:24):
did it affect your body?
I mean, physically.
SPEAKER_02 (16:27):
Thank God, man.
It's like, I feel good rightnow, you know?
It didn't do the damage whereyou got guys that do meth and
their teeth fall out and they'reall sunken in.
I didn't hit that.
I hit top bottom, they call it,in recovery.
What does that mean?
Top bottom is like, okay, you'reat the last leg.
(16:49):
Either you jump off Or are yougoing to go to jail?
Are you going to die?
Are you going to kill somebody?
Or are you going to killyourself?
You know what I mean?
So I kind of hit top bottom.
I was able to save my marriage.
I was able to reconcile with mychildren.
You know what I mean?
Like the infidelity that camealong with it, all that had to
come to surface.
I had to, you know, repairthings.
(17:11):
You know, after 10 years, it'snot easy to accept that from the
other side.
You know what I mean?
Right, right.
It's a process, and I have todeal with it.
I have to work with that everyday.
That's why I have to keep goingto these meetings and knowing
that even though I did it 20years ago, I have 10 years.
Well, what happened to thoseother 10 years?
(17:33):
What happened is that once yougo in these rooms and you're
thinking you've got threemonths, you're good, you know
what?
I'm all right now.
I don't need to go to thesemeetings.
So you slack off.
You start getting complacent.
And what happens is you stopgoing to meetings and next thing
you know, at one time I had fiveyears clean, right?
And I stopped going to meetingsbecause I just got lazy.
(17:55):
Oh, I'm good.
I'm all right.
One month, two months, threemonths go by.
Six months, I haven't gotten nomeetings.
And I'm looking at thesecommercials, people walking by
in the hot summer, Midwest, witha cold beer.
And I go, man, that looks good.
My thinking's already startingto revive that old man again,
thinking I'm normal.
Alcohol really wasn't myproblem.
(18:16):
It was the cocaine.
So I thought to myself, well,maybe I can be a responsible
drinker.
Guys in the band knew I wasdrinking and recovering.
Well, well, well.
Next thing I would startsneaking beers in my hotel room.
Just like, see, I'm all right.
I'm all right.
You know, started two beers,three beers.
And then when I come home, Iknow the drug dealers.
(18:39):
And after four or five beers, Imake that phone call.
And next thing you know, I'mgoing over there and the whole
cycle started again.
SPEAKER_03 (18:47):
Yeah, I think that's important to point out because
I'm sure there was a lot ofdifferent times where you would
say, okay, I think I could justdo this in moderation.
Or I think I can just do thisone time.
SPEAKER_02 (19:04):
Yeah, for us addicts, because there are
normies out there.
Like my wife's an army.
My wife can have one drink for awhole year.
She can have one drink and zipit for the whole night.
You know, that's an army.
I'm not an army.
I had to come to terms andaccept the fact, you know what?
I'm okay not being an army.
(19:24):
Because I tried being thatresponsible guy and it just
didn't work.
One of the last ones that Itried with my wife and I said,
well, if you're with me, you canmonitor me.
You can, you know, Are you sure?
Yeah, I think that's going to befine.
We're in Hawaii with the beachand the palm trees and coconuts.
(19:45):
As soon as she left to go to thebathroom, I said, Bartender,
give me a double, hurry.
So, I mean, that was the addictbehavior, right?
The sneaking around, this, that.
Even that didn't work, trying tomonitor you.
So I had to come to terms that,you know what?
I have to do this.
I have to do this for my sanity.
(20:05):
And right now, having thisclarity for all these years.
And I still work recovery.
I still speak in differentplaces like this podcast.
And I speak at other rooms ofrecovery, NAAA.
And they're so powerful, man,because if you help somebody
out, it helps you.
Because it helps us tounderstand people.
(20:26):
We've become like therapists,you know?
SPEAKER_03 (20:31):
I think also this sense of purpose, knowing that
you can pass along yourexperience, and maybe save
somebody from what you had to gothrough.
SPEAKER_02 (20:42):
When I'm on the road and people are like, hey, do you
want something to drink?
No, I'm fine.
What's the matter?
You don't drink?
I go, I used to, but I don'tdrink anymore.
I'm in recovery.
I tell them that right away andthey go, oh, I'm sorry.
It's okay.
You don't have to apologize.
I go, I enjoy it.
They see that joy.
They see something that, hey, Ican have fun now.
I have more fun being sober thanI was using.
SPEAKER_03 (21:09):
Sometimes when you get into mental health issues or
addictions, you kind of slideinto it and it gets really bad
and life gets terrible.
But when you come out of it,there's another life out there,
one of appreciation.
I mean, how did your life changeafter you got clear?
How did it get better with yourrelationships, your music?
SPEAKER_02 (21:33):
Like even in the music, I mean, you hear things
that you didn't hear before.
Your ears just become like, wow.
And your clarity.
You can wake up in the morningand not go like, ah, you're
hungover and trying to get outof bed.
And then emotions come inbecause you're not used to it.
(21:54):
Your mind plays games on you toobecause now you think it's like,
oh, did I offend this person?
Did I do the right thing?
So you go through these steps inrecovery where you have to start
adjusting.
to that lifestyle because beforewe would just suppress it either
with smoking.
I was Bob Marley, man.
(22:14):
I was a Mexican Bob Marley in myneighborhood.
But once it starts clearing up,man, it's just like it's a
process.
It's still a process.
There's still a lot of things inthe 12-step.
It's never over.
We never finish.
And that's one thing about this.
Now I know that I have to stayplugged in.
I have to stay connected tolike-minded people, they say.
Right?
And they say in recovery, showme your friends and I'll tell
(22:37):
you who you are.
So I love hanging around withpeople that are in recovery.
I have my group of guys.
Then we go to men's homes andgroups and speak and, you know,
just give them life, give themhope.
Saying, hey, there's hope.
Because if I can do it, you cando it.
Just because I'm a musician, Iplayed in all over the place,
(22:57):
different places.
Addiction is no respect to aperson, no matter what creed,
color, how much money you got,how much you don't have.
Once it gets you, it gets you.
But that's why I have to keepcontinuing because I learned
from that last time I gotcomplacent.
And then the mind sits in againthat you're okay, you're normal,
(23:19):
you're healed.
I'll never be healed.
Just like diabetes, right?
You have to maintain your sugarlevel, your diet and all that
stuff.
You have to watch it.
SPEAKER_03 (23:29):
It takes a lot of discipline.
You know what I'm kind ofcurious about is because your
addiction, your journey has beena good amount of time, how your
partner works with you.
How has your wife played a partin your recovery?
SPEAKER_02 (23:45):
Putting the hammer down.
I mean, first of all, you need agood, strong woman to say, hey,
you're going to lose everything.
Is that the road you want to go?
That's it.
Once you're sober and then yourelapse, you go to the program.
She was coming with me to theseprograms and learning a lot.
(24:06):
But the disappointments and thedisappointments, you know what I
mean?
Those emotional roller coastersthat we put our loved ones
through.
Because a lot of addicts dothat.
How many times do you relapse?
Some of us make it and some ofus don't.
I was just one of thosefortunate ones that said, you
know what?
I don't want to go down thatway.
I don't want to go down and say,hey, what happened to Sal?
(24:26):
He OD'd or he was loaded, he gotin a car accident, he crashed
and he died or he killedsomebody.
I don't want to leave thatlegacy to my kids.
I don't want to leave that markon them because that'll be so
devastating forever.
So that's why I continue doingwhat I do and speaking in these
forums, especially in yourpodcast.
(24:48):
Man, I gravitate on that.
I want to be on that.
And I want to thank you fortaking your time and accepting
my invitation.
And anytime I can share and be alight to somebody or instill
hope, it's possible.
It can't be done.
I know guys in those recoveryrooms that spend 25 years in
(25:08):
jail, prison.
Now they've got their lives backtogether.
Why?
Because they work the program.
Don't work your own program thatdoesn't work.
You got to work the program thatworks.
SPEAKER_03 (25:19):
The thing too, if you have a support system of
other people that understand andare there to assist you,
especially when you're goingthrough something difficult or
maybe you feel like using, maybeyou call your buddy.
You've been doing the 12 stepsfor so long.
What do you feel for you are thekeys to the success of that
(25:40):
program?
SPEAKER_02 (25:41):
Keep coming back.
That's all.
Keep coming back.
Because some guys say, well, Idon't need that.
Well, that's fine.
But you want to grow withinyourself, understanding other
people's point of view andhaving empathy, seeing the world
through their eyes too.
When you walk in the room, whatdo they see?
How do they see me?
You know what I mean?
(26:01):
Do they see a fake guy?
Do they see a guy that talks toomuch about himself?
Sometimes it's listening.
Sometimes I sit in these roomsand I just listen because I'm
absorbing like a sponge.
It's awesome.
I love it.
SPEAKER_03 (26:15):
It's like truth is stranger than fiction when you
hear some of these stories.
SPEAKER_02 (26:19):
And it's real.
Yeah.
Like the song says, right?
You want to hear a real song?
You want to hear some realstories?
Some real recovery stories.
Recovery is another word to mefor restoration.
You're restoring something thatbelongs to you.
Life.
Life is given to us freely,right?
(26:42):
And so...
We can accept these things thatare given to us, but we get in
the way because we want to do itour way.
And what happens is 99% of thetimes our way doesn't work.
And if it works your way withouta program and everything,
majority of times they're angry,they're not happy.
But all these things, we callthem defects of character, which
(27:04):
is anger, all these things,resentment, unforgiveness,
making amends, finding yoursteps.
Once you understand these thingsand work the process, it's a
relief.
You start like, wow, I get itnow.
So there's a lot of things thatgo under that umbrella.
The mental struggles that we gothrough too, the emotional
(27:25):
roller coasters.
Even the guys that have been init for a long time, they have
their good days, they have theirbad days.
I have my good days and baddays.
But no matter what, I just won'tpick up and use.
I'm not going to have that onedrink because I think I deserve
it.
That's what I thought back then.
Well, I deserve it.
I got five years.
I should be good.
I deserve it.
(27:45):
You know, being an addict, beingan alcoholic, you have to remind
yourself, I'm not that person.
I'm not the normie, but I'm okaywith it.
Because the end result is like,wow, I'm glad I didn't use.
SPEAKER_03 (27:59):
And it takes so much strength and discipline to come
back from where you were.
And it's something that peoplein your support group are going
to give you credit for, but youmay not find that on a
day-to-day basis because mostpeople don't know what your
journey has been.
I'm curious though, becausebeing in the music industry, you
(28:22):
probably come across a goodshare of musicians that you feel
might be going down a bad roadwith alcohol or drugs.
SPEAKER_02 (28:30):
It's tough because a lot of them, we don't think we
have a problem.
We don't think we need help.
But a lot of times it's notpreaching to them.
It's just loving on them andkind of sharing with them.
And a lot of times it's seeinghow you handle things.
We just came from Kabul lastweek and I played drums for the
group war, but it was an openbar 24-7, drinks, food,
(28:55):
everything.
Of course, there's going to be alot of drinking, but it's just
so cool that that doesn't fazeme.
Because people are theredrinking in front of me, but
people are saying, it must betough on you going down the road
and people drinking all thatstuff.
And early recovery, yes.
But once you get, I call themthe training wheels.
You get your training wheelsoff, you know what I mean?
(29:16):
You got some sobriety time inyou.
You work the steps.
You've got a sponsor.
You keep working this program.
Then you got this embedded inyou.
It's like, man, my obsession isgone.
Like before, I get thesebutterflies.
Ooh, I know I'm going into thetown.
My dealer's there.
What am I going to do?
They say, you got to have aplan.
You got to have a plan.
(29:36):
Once you go into these places, Iwould call them up and say, hey,
when I was in recovery, I'd say,I'm coming into town, but
whatever you do, please don'tbring anything to me because I'm
working in recovery.
Because I didn't have a plan inmy early recoveries.
I would relapse, man.
That obsession came.
I was overpowering.
Or maybe just one.
(29:57):
That one landed to the next day.
I don't have his phone number.
And after three months, I'll goby.
It's like, I got to get a holdof this guy.
I need to get something.
So I'll call somebody.
Oh, you're back.
I need a break.
But what broke that cycle is Ihad the plan.
I had to tell the guy.
I went to his house.
I knocked on his door.
(30:17):
He's a good friend of mine.
But he was one big supplierhere.
And I said, can I talk to youfor a minute?
He goes, yeah, man, what's up?
And I brought him.
I said, hey, can you just do mea favor?
He says, what's that?
I says, look, I'm in recoverynow.
And whatever I do, if I comehere, please don't sell me
anything.
I love you.
(30:38):
You're still my friend.
But do me that favor.
Can you do that for me?
And he goes, OK.
Gave him a hug.
10 years later.
But I had to do something likethat.
I had to take those steps totake control of myself.
Because I tried doing it on myown, sneaking here, sneaking
there, white wine, maybe on theweekends, and it just didn't
(30:59):
work.
I have to be completelyabstinent from any kind of
substance.
And if I'm around people that dohard drugs and stuff, I'm out.
I can hang around a little bit,but after a while, the stories
stay the same.
I got to go.
See you.
SPEAKER_03 (31:15):
You're on tour.
You've been touring for decades.
And you are an incredibledrummer.
I know that you were also withTierra and played with Duke
Ellington and had such a long,successful career.
Being in recovery, how do youkeep up with the 12-step program
while you're on tour?
Do you ever go to a meeting inanother
SPEAKER_02 (31:37):
city?
We went to a cruise last year.
It was the Soul Train Cruise.
I went to a meeting.
I said, oh, there's an AAmeeting.
But a lot of times when you'reon the road, you got phones, you
got your apps, you got yourbooks.
So you're in the hotel room.
A lot of times there's phonecalls calling guys that, you
(31:58):
know, they're in the program.
The program that I work is afaith-based program, which we
work the 12-step, but we applyChrist as our higher power.
We welcome everybody of anyfaith.
You know, me and Emilio gettogether.
We talk about that because he'sa believer.
He's a born-again Christian.
He helped me in my earlyrecovery one time.
(32:18):
He goes, Sal, we were playingwith Tower of Power.
It was Warren Tower of Power.
He came up, he goes, he's reallythat smile.
He goes, so how's it going, Sal?
And I go, I was complainingabout this, that, that.
He goes, you're a believer,right?
Well, you have eternal life.
What are you worried about?
And he smiles and he walks away.
And I'm going like, that's allhe's got to say?
(32:40):
I thanked him later on.
I said, it made me think.
The little simple little thingsthat I complain about doesn't
matter.
It didn't matter to me.
So that's it.
It's not for everybody.
That's why I tell people thatit's not about religion.
It's about you getting ittogether for yourself.
However you can do it, Iencourage it.
(33:01):
Getting under an umbrella,another structure that'll help
you.
Because if you deal with mentalhealth issues, that would help
you too.
If you get a personal therapist,that's definitely going to help
you too.
So whatever program you choosethat's working for you, keep it.
Work it.
But you have to work theprogram.
It says it works if you work it.
(33:22):
So no matter what program youchoose, if it's working for you,
choose that.
Because that's the one that'sgoing to keep your sanity
together.
Because it's tough out there.
Even though we still work theprogram, you can still be sober.
We still go through theemotional roller coasters.
SPEAKER_03 (33:38):
Now that you're free of your addictions, what is it
that makes you happy now?
beyond your incredible music?
SPEAKER_02 (33:47):
With that, it's just doing what I do as far as even
the little simple things, juststuff like this.
I look forward to things likethat because what happens, it
brings life to people.
When you can instill, we coulddrop a seed in there or water a
seed, you know what I mean?
And you can make a difference insomebody's life.
(34:07):
That's what makes me I getexcited about that too.
When I hear other testimony,people on the road in the past
where I've talked to them andgive them life, give them hope.
You know what I mean?
That, that makes me feel good.
It's just, there's something tome then.
And it's free.
You got to be open, open-minded.
(34:28):
We try something different.
That's that you have been tryingfor all these years.
It's not working.
Why are you still depressed?
Why are you still broke?
Why is that?
happening to you because youkeep doing the same thing over
and over and expecting a change.
You don't change.
Nothing's going to change.
You got to do something oppositeof what you're doing to start
(34:49):
creating that change.
And the more you do it, the moreyou get to that point where,
wow, you know, it's okay.
You know, I'm all right.
I can take the training wheelsoff and start helping people.
But this thing is a lifetimejourney.
And it's the same thing like ifa person wants to be on a diet
and they're really strugglingwith health, it's never over.
(35:10):
Because you can go on a diet andlose all this weight and
thinking that you're fine and goback to your old eating habits
and guess what?
SPEAKER_03 (35:18):
It's all about changing your lifestyle, really,
and your way of thinking.
SPEAKER_02 (35:22):
People that I know that died because of COVID, some
of them got hit really hard.
Like when we talk about themental rollercoaster that we go
through, including myself withCOVID, it's like, man, we don't
know where this thing was goingto go.
And I'm a touring musician.
So everything, the carpet went,just swept right under me.
SPEAKER_03 (35:41):
I know it was a shock for everyone.
And plus your entire lifestylehas to change.
And as a musician, it's a highfor you, right?
It's a natural high to go andplay to the fans.
That kind of feeds your energyas you feed the fans energy.
I mean, I miss live music somuch.
SPEAKER_02 (36:03):
That's just in our DNA, man.
We're entertainers.
We entertain people.
And when that's taken away fromyou after 40-something years on
the road, what?
You know, it's like, we don'tknow what's going to happen
little by little.
I didn't get the virus, and Ikept my distance.
I did get vaccinated.
I got the Johnson& Johnson.
(36:23):
I'm proud of it, and I feelbetter about it.
It's just about respect, right?
So, and I'm good.
SPEAKER_03 (36:30):
Well, one thing that I admire about you is that
you've had this long andsuccessful career.
Do you have any just simplewords of wisdom for musicians
that are up and coming, thingsto be aware of to have that
successful career?
SPEAKER_02 (36:47):
You have to stay active, being positive, and
you've got to be careful withyour surroundings and always
learning.
because we're always students oflife.
I just say, stay active insomething positive.
Make a difference in somebodyelse's life, because there's
somebody out there strugglingmore than you.
SPEAKER_03 (37:08):
Next, our featured expert is Jeff Duke, the founder
of Christ Powered Recovery, orCPR, a nationwide addiction
program based on AlcoholicAnonymous' original 12 steps,
but proves to be different inits approach.
Jeff shares how Sal and manyothers have gotten clean from
addiction, got their joyfullives back, and now help others
(37:28):
in their own mental health andaddiction journeys.
Now let's hear Jeff Duke sharehis knowledge and solutions.
SPEAKER_00 (37:36):
I do two programs.
I go to Alcoholics Anonymous,which I've been involved in for
the whole 26 years.
And the program that Sal likesto do is called Christ Powered
Recovery CPR.
I started that in January of2009.
And the reason I did that, therewas religious conflicts from
people within AA because of ahigher power concept, which is
(37:58):
very important.
So I started that program CPR asa non-religious program.
So I really want to say thatright off the bat as a
non-religious program wherepeople can choose a higher
power.
And if they believed in otherthings, they would love to be
there as well.
Buddha, Muhammad, we could allget along together and learn to
grow.
(38:18):
But actually get to know our Godin a more personal way.
SPEAKER_03 (38:22):
Well, thank you so much for doing that because
everyone should feel welcome ina recovery or support meeting.
We just heard from Sal Rodriguezof WAR.
And he mentioned you as beingsomewhat significant in his life
as far as recovery and the12-step program.
SPEAKER_00 (38:40):
So the cool thing when you have the 12-step rooms,
we're all equals.
So when I got to know Sal, Ididn't know him from Adam.
He was just somebody that wasstruggling at the time.
We became friends and got toknow each other.
I didn't know about war or hisother musical accomplishments.
We just knew each other as onealcoholic addict to another.
(39:01):
And we built a friendship.
And that's when I found out Saland Lowrider and Cisco Kid and
all that great history.
SPEAKER_03 (39:08):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, war's music has spanneddecades, right?
Grandparents, parents, kids,which is really a wonderful
thing to see music unitingpeople in that way.
And he mentioned you as being amentor during this whole
program.
Is that one of the steps to havea mentor or be a buddy?
(39:30):
It
SPEAKER_00 (39:31):
is.
It is.
If you look in the world, we'resort of taught to be alone.
Yet in the rooms, we're taughtto have people to go to and
really talk about what'shappening in our lives.
It's really contrary to theworld.
I mean, we talk about mentalhealth issues.
For us to be able to talk toanother man or another woman and
say, I'm really not doing well,or I want to learn to grow in
(39:53):
this area, or I'm really good atthis, but just communicate our
feelings in regards to alcoholand drugs.
Because they were just a symptomof what was inside the heart
about those underlying things.
So yes, in the 12-step rooms, wecall it sponsor, mentor.
Mentor is a great word.
And the longer you get to knowpeople, those become really deep
(40:16):
bonds.
Because as Sal would share hispros and cons, I would do the
same with him.
We become very intimate thatway.
SPEAKER_03 (40:24):
Well, I also heard of the term sober buddy,
where...
Others can call each other ifthey feel like they're going
through something where theymight relapse or maybe they're
going through a mental healthstruggle that's tied with this
addiction.
Is that part of it as well?
SPEAKER_00 (40:42):
Sober buddies, to me, it's a different term.
Like if you use the word asponsor, it's more of an upline.
where you're like, hey, you'vebeen around a little longer than
me, and I want you to helpmentor me, if you use that word.
Sober buddy is cool.
Those are like people that wewalk with on a daily basis, and
that is super important too.
I have a ton of sober buddies.
(41:02):
I mean, if you look at my phone,all day long my phone is ringing
with sober buddies, whether it'ssomebody that's been sober for a
week or people that have beenwalking in the program longer
than me.
There's a passage from theAlcoholics Anonymous big book It
talks about we're like survivorsfrom a shipwreck to where we
have these instant bonds withpeople because they speak my
(41:25):
language and I speak theirs.
SPEAKER_03 (41:28):
You know, one thing I found in a support group And I
know the 12-step program reliesalso on support and testimonials
from other people sharing theirstories.
When I first had the idea ofgoing to a support group, I did
not want to go.
That was something that wasscary.
It was a bunch of strangers.
And what am I doing?
(41:49):
How is this going to help?
But once I was really pushed togo, I realized the benefits
really quickly.
You know, what do you see in thesupport groups that has been
eye-opening or life-changing forothers who come into the group?
SPEAKER_00 (42:06):
Great question.
I don't think anybody willinglygoes to a 12-step group.
It's like, hi, I'm powerless andmy life is in shambles.
How are you?
So it takes a lot of humility towalk into a room and say, I just
need some help.
One of the things I think is abedrock of good 12-step groups
is loving and open arms topeople.
(42:26):
I'll give you an example.
I've been to some groups and youwalk in and everybody knows
everybody.
And you walk in and you're justscared, frightened, and alone.
And you leave sometimes evenmore frightened, scared, and
alone.
So the good groups, and I'mgoing to say 90%, will find
somebody like yourself or myselfwalking in.
You can pick us out.
You know that look on our face.
And so people will reach out andoffer help and offer support,
(42:50):
offer assistance.
Even sometimes it's just like atouch.
on the shoulder just to say,it's going to be okay.
That's what saved my life.
I would just like you, I was 25years old.
And even at 25, there was mentalhealth issues that were related
to alcohol and drugs.
So those people saved my life bybeing warm, open and embracing,
(43:14):
not knowing me from Adam, butjust being a this person needs
help, we're going to help.
And I think that that Like Saland myself and other 12-step
people, that's the thing that wedo.
We open the doors for thatperson that comes in that needs
help after us and continue to golong after.
We've been sober years and yearsand years as Sal has and as I
(43:36):
have.
SPEAKER_03 (43:38):
Yeah, I do think that once people really start to
reveal a story, they might feelembarrassed or shame a story.
We don't necessarily talk aboutin regular conversation that are
put out in a meeting, youimmediately can feel comfortable
in knowing that when you shareyour story, there's not going to
(44:00):
be embarrassment or shame, thatthere's going to be a sense of
acceptance because others in thesame room may have been going
through the same or similarstory.
So there's definitely a bondingthat happens.
SPEAKER_00 (44:14):
It's a safe place because of autonomy.
and anonymity.
So what you hear there, we don'ttalk about it afterwards.
So if Jeff had a fight with thechild or Jeff had a fight with
the wife or Jeff is having aproblem, I can share it in a
group and it stays in the group.
SPEAKER_03 (44:29):
Right, there's confidentiality.
And that's so important,especially, let's say, for
somebody like Sal, who is a verypublic figure, who might be
concerned about what might comeout of the group.
So confidentiality is soimportant with musicians.
But people in general.
We're not going to go throughall the 12 steps, because I know
(44:51):
that's a lot.
But what do you feel are somethat are really pivotal in
adhering to?
SPEAKER_00 (45:00):
There's a couple and I'll try to consolidate it for
you.
Any obsessive compulsive, it'sgoing to be the first step where
we can't do a certain act,whether it's gambling, drinking,
drugs, food, sex, whatever itcan be.
We have to draw a line in thesand.
Say this behavior one day at atime has to cease because it
(45:22):
makes our lives unmanageable.
We go, we seek a higher power.
And what that does is it allowsus to go deeper into ourselves
with our creator, whomever wechoose that to be.
As we grow, we work oninventories.
What are the positive assets ofour lives or the defects?
And we work on those.
We applaud the one and we workon the other.
(45:42):
And then as we go out there andwe try to make amends to atone
the things that we did, that'sfor the people we hurt as well
as ourselves to say we're notthat person anymore.
At that point, we learn how topray and meditate.
But the ending, which is thecoolest part, is the 12th step,
which is having a spiritualawakening as a result of these
(46:03):
steps.
We carry this message to otheralcoholics and practice these
principles.
For people like Sal and I, wedon't retire.
We don't get all better and thenjust stay home.
We go out there and we get thesegreat lives because that
obsession's been removed.
We make it our life's purpose tohelp other people.
and not be selfish, but to giveback, which was so freely given
(46:24):
to us.
SPEAKER_03 (46:26):
One thing that you said was obsessive compulsive
attributes to addiction.
And I like that because it seemsthat Most people don't come in
with just one addiction.
There could be multipleaddictions that are going on.
I mean, do you believe in thiswhole idea of an addictive
personality, or do you feel likeit's more of an obsessive,
(46:50):
compulsive thing?
SPEAKER_00 (46:51):
That's open to debate, but I would say the
obsessive, because a lot of themgo together.
A lot of people, we have primaryand secondary addictions that we
don't even know about.
Because we're so busy puttingout the flames on the one, the
other one is sort of sidelined.
And as we grow and stop one ofthem, the other one will often
rise.
That's why it's so important tocontinue to work on ourselves
(47:14):
and look at what our positiveattributes are and our negative
attributes.
As you get away from the primaryone, for myself, it was alcohol
and drugs.
I could see my other characterdefects and work on those as
well.
SPEAKER_03 (47:26):
you really have to be honest with yourself because
I would think that if you putout the flame to one addiction,
that you can replace it withanother or
SPEAKER_04 (47:37):
to
SPEAKER_03 (47:38):
try to soothe whatever it is that's
underlying.
Talking about what's underlying,a lot of people will try to
soothe these emotions that theyfind to be difficult with these
addictions.
Right.
When you get to that point whereit's like, okay, we have to deal
(47:58):
with these emotions, whathappens at that point?
Because that seems like a wholeother chapter.
I
SPEAKER_00 (48:03):
always say pain is the great litigator.
So usually as we go, things getmore and more painful.
So as I don't drink and use, thepain in the other areas are
going to be coming up.
And this also comes up, you usethe word sober buddies and
mentors.
Those things come up.
(48:24):
If I'm sober, but I'm having aproblem with my anger, I'm
having a problem with food, I'mhaving a problem going to the
casino, these things are comingup.
And by having people in my life,they help keep me accountable
and make me look at those thingsand say, well, is that healthy?
Now, we're not saying to stopeverything, but there's healthy
and unhealthy behaviors.
(48:45):
Most people can go to Las Vegasfor the weekend, but they don't
take their rent money and theircar money and put it on black.
So these things often come upthe longer we go.
And that's what the 12 steps arefor, not just for the alcohol
and drugs, but to work on theother obsessive compulsive
disorders.
And that can be done.
It's shown it works, but we haveto keep looking at ourselves.
SPEAKER_03 (49:07):
And dealing with those emotions and having to
work through those difficulttraumas or situations that we
try to bury away.
Do people usually work throughthat in the support group or do
they go to therapists?
Because that sounds like thetough part, but the part that
(49:28):
once it's healed can make thingsmuch better in your life.
SPEAKER_00 (49:32):
Well, I can answer that question.
It's all the above.
So for myself, I'll give you theexample where I didn't know my
father and I worked on that mywhole life.
So I had a chip on my shoulderfrom that.
So it's not recommended usuallyfor people to go to therapists
when you're just trying to getsober because you're just sick
and you're just spewing things.
You don't even know yourself.
So you have to remove thealcohol and drugs.
(49:54):
But yes, I did do therapy aftera considerable period of years
sober to work on myself and totalk about those things that
hurt me and to become, there wasa word acceptance therapy.
into things.
Also, I share about things ingroup because I know that it's a
safe place, but that takes along time to be able to do that.
So this one, there was no rightanswer on your question.
(50:16):
Therapy is great.
Working with mentors, sponsors,sober buddies within the group,
whatever works to get yourselfbetter is the answer.
SPEAKER_03 (50:25):
You talked about complacency when it comes to
addiction, meaning that let'ssay you're five years sober and
you think okay i think i canhandle this drink i think i
could do this in moderation imean do you find that's a common
mistake or misconception thathappens with addicts
SPEAKER_00 (50:45):
yes any kind of obsessive compulsive though it's
like somebody that gets betterwhen they they take a drug like
zoloft or then they feel betterand then once they're off it
they say well i don't need itanymore so it can be the same
thing with alcoholics andaddicts to where We go to
meetings for so long, we're ofservice.
We say, well, I'm feeling reallygood.
I don't need this anymore.
(51:06):
But the problem is the verything that helped us get better,
we stopped doing.
And that's being of service toother people, our conscious
contact with our higher power.
We stopped looking at ourselves.
So that does happen at times,and you'll often see people
relapse, which means they'll goback to what they were addicted
to in the first place becausethey forgot.
So for myself, being 26 yearssober, I never forgot the last
(51:30):
day that I drank and used.
Just like in any obsessivecompulsive disorder, you have to
remember the last day.
Because if you forget,eventually it's going to come
back.
I remember the pain.
And I never want that to comeback.
SPEAKER_03 (51:43):
You know, I would think that one of the biggest
struggles is getting somebody toaccept that, okay, I...
have depression and it's alifelong thing, or I have
alcoholism.
It's a lifelong thing that Ineed to take care of and really
be on top of, even though Ihaven't had an issue in the past
(52:06):
five years.
SPEAKER_00 (52:08):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (52:08):
And I would think that that's a journey to finally
get to that point.
It
SPEAKER_00 (52:13):
is.
And that's the word acceptance.
You used a word earlier,honesty.
That's a bedrock of recovery,being honest about it.
Most of us have struggled a longtime.
Like for alcoholism and drugaddicts, a lot of us felt out of
place and just out of sync ourwhole lives, like aliens in a
world.
And so alcohol and drugs maskedit.
(52:35):
So for myself, I always had toremember, yes, I have this
problem regardless of how manyyears.
It's still there.
Depression, the same thing.
A lot of alcoholics and drugaddicts mask it by drugs and
alcohol.
And even after a period oftimes, it's called recovery.
not recovered.
And if you're going throughsomething, you don't have to do
(52:56):
it alone.
I just find it very gratifyingto be able to work with people
and watch people that were sodysfunctional become so
functional, but so grateful forthe second opportunity In life
where a lot of us were like atop bottom, we were destined for
jails, institutions, and death.
Instead, we're out there havingrelationships, successful
(53:18):
relationships, becomingsuccessful in the world,
whatever we're doing,
SPEAKER_04 (53:23):
and
SPEAKER_00 (53:23):
just helping other people instead of just being a
consumer, which is whatobsessive compulsive is, take,
take, take, rather than in therooms, give, give, give.
SPEAKER_03 (53:33):
A big thank you to our musical guest, Sal Rodriguez
of WAR, and our recovery expert,Jeff Duke.
For more information on WAR,visit WAR.com, look out for WAR
on tour, and also on the SuperLegends Cruise in 2022,
headlining with their friendsTower of Power.
Follow WAR on their socials atWAR the Band, and stay tuned for
(53:54):
a clip of WAR's single, All DayMusic, at the end of our
episode.
For more information onChrist-Powered Recovery, visit
ChristPoweredRecovery.org.
And thanks to everyone forfollowing us on our socials at
Check Your Head Podcast and alsofor your kind donations on our
website atCheckYourHeadPodcast.com, where
you'll find plenty of free andaffordable mental health
(54:16):
solutions.
So until next time, be brave,ask for help, and be persistent
in finding the mental healththat you need.
SPEAKER_01 (54:29):
Check
SPEAKER_03 (54:52):
Your Head podcast is kindly supported and partnered
with Sweet Relief MusiciansFund, DBSA San Gabriel Valley,
Earshot Media, and Lemon TreeStudios in Los Angeles.
Visit checkyourheadpodcast.comwhere we have over 100 solutions
for mental health.
Be our friends on social mediaat Check Your Head Podcast.
(55:13):
Watch us on YouTube and supportus with a kind donation on
checkyourheadpodcast.com.
Check Your Head Podcast issponsored by a 501c3 nonprofit
with all donations being taxdeductible.
Thank you for your support andthank you for listening.
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