May 16, 2022 • 51 mins
Mari Fong interviews Zac Barnett of American Authors and Chris Bullard, former touring musician and founder of Sound Mind Live. Zac Barnett of American Authors shares about caring for his mother with bipolar disorder and the importance of being a mental health support for those you love. American Authors will be playing at the upcoming Music for Mental Health concert on May 21, 2022, hosted by the nonprofit, Sound Mind Live. Next, Chris Bullard, the founder of Sound Mind Live, shares how his own bipolar disorder inspired him to become a mental health advocate for musicians.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome to the Check Your Head podcast, a podcast
where notable musicians andexperts share their stories and
solutions for mental health andwellness.
I'm your host, Mari Fong, amusic journalist and life coach
for musicians, and today we havea band that is best known for
their hit single, Best Day of MyLife, which has been featured in
(00:23):
movie trailers, commercials, andas a theme song for the Stanley
Cup Playoffs.
Today we have Zach Barnett ofAmerican Authors, who will be
sharing about caring for hismother with bipolar disorder and
the importance of being a mentalhealth support for those you
love.
American Authors will be playingat the upcoming Music for Mental
Health concert on May 21, 2022,hosted by the non-profit Sound
(00:48):
Mind Live.
Next, I'll be talking with ChrisBullard, the founder of Sound
Mind Live, who'll share how hisown bipolar disorder inspired
him to become a mental healthadvocate for musicians.
But first, let's hear ZachBarnett of American Authors
share his story.
One thing I really love aboutAmerican Authors is that the
(01:10):
lyrics and the melodies arepositive, they're empowering,
they're messages of hope.
And of course, the The best dayof my life is a great shining
example of that.
You recently dropped Timelesswith Chad Tepper and Nice and
Easy with Mark McGrath.
But I wanted to start off byasking, what made you decide as
(01:33):
a band to go in this positivedirection with your music and
your lyrics?
SPEAKER_02 (01:39):
Well, I think so much of our journey as a band,
as American authors, as peopleis Nothing ever came easy, you
know.
It was always a struggle.
It was always doing thingsourselves, grinding, working
through the hardships.
And I don't think any of thathustle would have been possible
to get through if it wasn't forthat light at the end of the
(02:02):
tunnel.
For us, it really was so muchabout small victories, seeing
that light at the end of thetunnel.
So it's like, okay, right now ishard.
Right now there's work.
Right now it's not.
going amazing and there aredifficulties to get through but
it was holding on to the hope ofknowing that if we make it
through this we can get throughthese times right now we'll make
(02:25):
it to that light at the end overhere so I think when it came to
writing lyrics and doingAmerican Authors and starting
that group as far as the soundand the message it was really
just writing what we know Eventoday with American authors,
after gaining success, it's likewe still have struggles.
(02:47):
There are still just as manystruggles in our personal lives,
in the music industry today asthere were back then.
It's not like, okay, you get arecord deal and now everything's
perfect, easy peasy.
No, it's like you still have toobtain those small victories,
those small goals, see thatlight at the end.
So it was really just writingwhat we know, still writing what
(03:09):
we know.
making sure that it's honest isso important with these overly
positive type songs, because,you know, if you have these
happy go lucky songs that areused in TV and movies, it can be
really easy to forget what themessage is and they can come
across as really ingenuine.
(03:30):
And I think what has been socool for American authors is
when you go back and you listento the stories with our songs,
like if you take, Some of ourbiggest songs, like Best Day of
My Life for Believer,especially, when you listen to
the chorus of Believer, sure, itsays, I'm a believer that things
will get better, and it has thisreally poppy melody.
But when you listen or read theverse lyrics, it's saying, I'm
(03:53):
sheltered, I'm scared, I'mnervous, I'm going nowhere.
It's talking about all theseinsecurities that we have, which
I think really gives Americanauthors confidence.
a good story, which providesthat it's just not
happy-go-lucky.
It has a message, and it has themessage of hope.
My mom is going through chemofor a second time, so I'm in
(04:15):
Phoenix helping her out andtaking care of her.
I had to get her into thehospital last night for some
complications and whatnot, soI'm basically taking care of
everything.
I'm taking care of her dog.
I got a cleaner to come out andbasically clean the house while
she's in the hospital right now.
So I'm just kind of like settingup the cleaner who just got here
(04:39):
and then making sure her dog'ssituated outside.
SPEAKER_01 (04:41):
Well, healing, hopes, and love to your mother.
Thank you.
I can't even imagine how toughthat is.
Well, you know, this is actuallya really good example of what
happens when you're goingtowards your goals.
Life happens.
Personal things happen.
are always happeningunexpectedly.
(05:02):
I read that when you wrote TheBest Day of My Life, that you
were actually going through somereally tough struggles with the
band.
SPEAKER_02 (05:11):
Yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_01 (05:12):
Can you explain some of the hardship that you've gone
through and sort of come out theother end?
SPEAKER_02 (05:18):
Yeah, sure.
I mean, with this dream of musicand wanting to do this
professionally and taking therisks, it was super tough for
me.
But I fortunately got acceptedto Berklee College of Music.
Unfortunately, I had no way topay for it.
So the only way I was able to gomy first semester is because my
high school ex-girlfriend's dadlent me the money for my first
(05:42):
semester.
I basically had no other way.
I was too late to apply forloans at that point.
So he believed in me and he lentme the money for the first
semester to get there.
Then I was able to apply forloans for the semester after
that.
But even after that firstsemester, my father passed away
from heart complications at 50years old.
(06:02):
That was an insane thing.
My father passing like freshmanin college and, you know, had to
just drop everything and go toCalifornia for his funeral.
And it was so unexpected.
That was just a huge test for mewhere I was like, okay, what do
I do?
Like, do I take the rest of thesemester off?
Do I stay with my family inCalifornia?
(06:24):
I figured, well, you know, I'mhere.
I've taken so many risks just toget to this college, just to get
to this school.
I might as well not let it go towaste and finish out the
semester and keep pushingthrough the dream.
And he would want me to keeppushing and make this dream
happen because, you know, hepushed for his so long and never
got music to the place of acareer that he would have
(06:46):
wanted.
But, you know, it's all good.
It happens.
You know, that was a huge test.
After that, my mom decided toretire early because of her
battle with mental health andthe severity of her bipolar.
She did some crazy stuff, man.
She sold the house that I grewup in, and she bought an RV, and
she traveled around the countryby herself, just living in
(07:08):
random places.
My second year in college, shehad to come live with me on our
tiny college apartment futon,and that was pretty intense.
I don't know if at that point Iwas necessarily a parent figure,
but it was like, You have yourmom crashing on your couch
because she's RVing around thecountry.
(07:28):
That was a shock.
It was just crazy stuff, dealingwith family.
Never in a bad way because Ilove my family.
My mom is my best friend, so Idon't really care that she's
crashing on my futon.
It's just like when you haveyour best friend crashing on
your futon for a little bitunexpectedly, it's like you're
getting tiffs and fights withyour best friend.
(07:49):
You got that going on with mycollege roommate at the time.
He's like, This is insane.
Like, what is happening?
But just odd jobs.
Dropped out of school shortlyafter that.
Moved to New York City to keepthe dream alive.
When we wrote Best Day of MyLife and Believer, we were at
this point like 25, 26 yearsold.
(08:09):
So we had been working togetheras American authors since we
were 19.
So it was not an overnightthing, just working odd jobs and
bartending, hustling.
I lost my job to HurricaneSandy, which sucked.
My restaurant got flooded out.
So I was doing really weirdstuff.
(08:29):
I was acting as like doingbackground work in TV shows.
And I lived in a haunted housefor a reality show because it
paid pretty well.
And it was pretty heavy, likeghost hunting detective work,
which was super fun.
Look, I definitely tell peoplewhen they ask me about that, I
will tell people if I could havethe same career in ghost hunting
(08:50):
as I am fortunate enough to havein music.
I will stop doing musicprofessionally tomorrow and be a
full-time ghost hunter.
I am sorry to everyone involvedwith American Authors.
I'm out.
I'll be full-time ghost hunter.
I loved it.
It was so fun.
You
SPEAKER_01 (09:05):
know, there's always side jobs.
SPEAKER_02 (09:07):
That was crazy because I was terrified.
And I was like, of course, likethe one high-paying gig that
like, I need this to pay for myrent.
Like my rent was super cheap.
My rent was like 300 bucks amonth, but it was like, this is
going to pay for my rent for theentire fall.
Of course it has to be like ahaunted house thing where I have
to live there for a week.
And I'm terrified of this, butit was like, look, you got to do
SPEAKER_01 (09:29):
it.
It changed your life.
SPEAKER_02 (09:31):
It changed my life.
It was very fun.
SPEAKER_01 (09:33):
Well, I'm glad you mentioned your mother having
bipolar and I was actually in asupport group called the
Depression and Bipolar SupportAlliance.
So I got to know people that hadbipolar and I experienced
depression and anxiety.
So I've had my own struggles.
But, you know, oftentimes mentalhealth disorders can be passed
down.
Was that ever something that youpersonally had to deal with?
SPEAKER_02 (09:57):
Not that I know of because I haven't really gone in
to get it checked out.
But my mom warns me.
She's like, look, my bipolar didnot start till I was around your
age.
So be cautious and keep an eyeout for these things.
Because when she got diagnosed,she was in her early 30s.
So she was around my age at thattime.
SPEAKER_01 (10:17):
Well, you grew up with a mother with bipolar.
And what comes with that isepisodes of mania and
depression.
How did that affect you as achild growing up?
SPEAKER_02 (10:29):
To be truthful, I didn't notice.
I didn't even know anythingabout this.
Because When I was growing up,this really was not something I
had ever heard of.
It wasn't talked about.
I don't even think I could havetold you what like depression or
bipolar even meant.
So I didn't know anything aboutthis.
And I'm sure my mom wasstruggling with mental health
(10:54):
this entire time, but she was asingle mom.
You know, she was working likethree jobs to pay bills and
whatnot.
And she was that rock star wherelike, She was a school teacher.
She did after school programs.
She taught summer school.
Then she had this like jokeunderwear business.
So when she came home fromteaching, she would be in the
basement doing like silkscreening.
(11:15):
Yeah, she'd be silk screeningall night long.
So it was like constant work.
But like she was doing all thisto provide me kind of whatever I
wanted.
Playstations for Hanukkah.
And I didn't understand thatlike, oh, We're broke as shit.
We're struggling.
She's struggling mentally.
I had no clue what any of thiswas.
(11:37):
And it wasn't until I was incollege where my mom was like,
Hey, will you be upset if I sellchildhood house?
I'm like, no, that's fine.
And then she explained to me,she's like, yeah, I'm retiring
early because I'm bipolar.
And like my mental health is notin check.
I'm not doing well mentally.
And for my mental and physicalhealth moving forward, I can't
(12:01):
continue to work.
So it's like, okay, that's whatyou need to do.
That's what you need to do.
And that's when I startedseeing, oh, okay, you sold the
house, but now you're gettingthis RV.
And now you need me to help youwith money.
You're asking me for favors.
Oh, you're coming to live withme.
And I guess such a role reversewhere I really started seeing
(12:22):
these things.
And it was like, oh, this isnew.
This is different.
SPEAKER_01 (12:27):
Everybody's story about their condition is
different.
It sounds like maybe you didn'tnotice it as much.
However, with depression, Imean, it could be really
debilitating.
You could start having reallynegative thoughts.
You could just want to be in bedand you really can't get up and
(12:48):
work because you're not thinkingstraight and it affects your
behavior as well.
I mean, can you think of anykind of depressive periods in
her life?
SPEAKER_02 (12:57):
Sure.
That's a huge thing that I'mworking on now too.
And my mom has conversationswith me about that today.
When I'll be like, Hey mom, didyou do this?
What's going on with this?
And she'll be exact.
I haven't been able to get outof bed for the last week.
It's like my depression is sobad right now where I haven't,
you know, even thought aboutanything.
I haven't even gotten up in Xamount of time.
(13:18):
And this is a huge thing thatI'm working on with therapists
throughout the years, working onwith my girlfriend who also
really, struggles with mentalhealth, depression, anxiety,
OCD, all these things likeheavy, heavy into it.
And I'd probably say really likein the last five years, trying
(13:39):
to not only start to get into myown mental health, but also
learn more about the people inmy life's mental health and be
sensitive.
And that's one of the biggestthings.
I haven't even really touch thetip of the iceberg with myself
because i've always been so headdown anxious with getting these
(14:02):
things done like okay this needsto be done i'm here taking care
of this it's like just from menow being with my mom in arizona
helping her with her cancertreatment right now taking care
of everything up from 10 a.m to10 p.m making calls cleaning the
house running errands makingsure she's okay, you know, doing
all these different things,taking her to the hospital last
(14:23):
night.
I don't even have time toprocess what's happening.
So I know this will come up formyself down the road with my
father passing away in college.
It's like, I went right back toschool because it was like,
well, I want to get this done.
I need to get this done.
I know there's still so much forme personally to unpack from
(14:43):
that experience, you know?
So right now, my biggest thing,because I have been so got to
get this done, done, done, done,done.
Like I want to do this, this,this, this, this.
For me, one of the biggestthings that I'm working on right
now is practicing patience,practicing grace with these
people around me where it'slike, oh, my girlfriend is
(15:04):
having a hard time with thesethings today.
So I need to step off.
I need to back away.
I need to give her that space.
You know, it's like, oh.
My mom can't do these thingsbecause of her depression or
because of what she's goingthrough mentally.
So it's like, okay, I need toback off.
I'm trying to help these peoplearound me, and now I'm just now
(15:26):
starting to try to figure myselfout, be cautious about these
things, and dive in to get thehelp for myself.
SPEAKER_01 (15:35):
Right.
Well, through your experience,you've really learned a lot
without really a choice becauseyou've been a support.
Right.
the people with mental healthissues.
And that's really important isto learn how to be a support.
We're never really taught that.
Talking about your mother, wereyou ever able to help her get
(15:59):
treatment or was she successfulin getting treatment for
herself?
SPEAKER_02 (16:04):
Yeah, for sure.
She's got proper medication.
She's talked with the rightprofessionals.
She's been...
working with therapists foryears and years now.
So yeah, she does a good jobgetting all that stuff taken
care of, getting the propertreatment.
I've always been there to helpin every way.
I'm trying to be as supportivewith everything as I possibly
(16:26):
can be.
I'm my mom's caregiver now andbought her a house and all that
stuff.
And so I try to be here as muchas I can.
And even if I'm not physicallyhere, but just always be there
for
SPEAKER_01 (16:37):
her.
Well, those things are soimportant.
Just knowing that You care forher and you show it and express
it in your words and youractions.
You mentioned your girlfriend.
Being in a day-to-dayrelationship with somebody, even
when you're on the road, thereare ways to support people with
what they're going through.
You mentioned about lettingpeople have their time when they
(17:00):
need it, but there's also timeswhen you might need to step in.
Can you think of times when youhad to step in?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (17:07):
Truthfully, I...
am such a person who I kind ofalways step in.
That's just how I roll.
It's like I'm always stepping inlike, hey, what can I do?
What can I help with?
What's going on?
How are you feeling?
I could be so overbearing withthat.
That was never really an issuewhere it's like, hey, what can I
help with?
Okay, you need help with this?
I got you.
(17:28):
For me, learning how to stepback where my girlfriend can be
like, dude, you're too much.
Stop asking me what I need.
Stop asking me what's going on.
Chill out and give me my metime.
Let me be alone here.
I will let you know what I needwhen I need it because you're
asking enough.
So that's been my challenge.
(17:49):
She's also been in such anawesome place with her mental
health now more than everbecause she was putting it on
the back burner for a long time,for years and years.
And yeah, it was really abouther going, yes, I have these
preexisting traumas.
(18:10):
I need professional help onthese.
I am going to step up, see atherapist, see a psychiatrist,
get proper medication if that'sneeded.
And since she did that, it'sbeen such an insane difference
to see how she handles dailylife, how she handles problems
(18:31):
that come up, to see how she caninteract with her family.
I'm next with this stuff becauseI know I have my entire set of
issues that I need to divedeeper into and address and
figure that out.
SPEAKER_01 (18:46):
Well, thank you for stepping in.
I
SPEAKER_02 (18:48):
don't even want to look at myself as I stepped in.
I think it was just the two ofus coming together, having those
conversations together.
I think she was the brave onefor even recognizing all that
stuff because I got plenty offriends too where it's like
they've had major traumas in thelast handful of years where it's
like, This is weighing on you.
I'm here to talk.
(19:09):
I'm here to help as much as Ican, but I am not a
professional.
I don't know the first thingabout anything.
I can be an open ear and I'll behere for you, but you've got to
talk with someone because it'saffecting you.
I see those people beingstubborn and not wanting to take
that next step.
You need to.
This is getting to a point whereit's unhealthy.
And I'm really proud of mygirlfriend for recognizing like,
(19:31):
okay, cool.
We all have these issues.
Mine are getting to a pointwhere it's borderline unhealthy
for myself.
Okay, we're having this talk.
Yes, I will step up, do this.
There is no shame in this.
I have no pride.
I've got to give mad props toher for doing that.
SPEAKER_01 (19:47):
Yeah.
And the thing is, is that theresistance is really the
problem.
Just looking at getting help asbravery instead of weakness.
And You talked about havingmental health issues due to
trauma, which I think we're allfamiliar with, that trauma can
affect our mental health in thelong term, not only in the short
(20:09):
term, but also that conditionslike bipolar could be genetic.
Sure.
You could be born with the DNAto have that triggered in you.
Totally.
And if we could all change ourmental health when it was
poor...
We would all do it because noone wants to go through that
depression, anxiety.
And I feel like there's alsothat idea in some way that we
(20:33):
can control it.
We can't control our mentalhealth, but we do need to take
responsibility for it.
And that is what your mother andyour girlfriend is doing, which
mad props to them as well.
SPEAKER_02 (20:45):
Yeah, I'm very proud of both.
And that's one of the biggestthings that I've learned over
the years is like, oh, okay,this is not something that you
can control, like you said.
And for me, As someone who canbe kind of an intense person,
such a big thing that I'velearned is take a step back.
Can't be harping on these peoplebecause it's like they can't
(21:05):
control how they wake up.
They can't control how they'refeeling about a situation.
It's like, okay, cool.
Take a step back, Zach.
SPEAKER_01 (21:12):
Well, there was a point where I was smiling a lot
because I was completelyunderstanding how you feel
because I'm that person as well.
I'm always that person thatwants to help, trying not to be
the over-giver.
But I've also realized that evenwhen you offer help, the buck
stops with the person.
They're really the ones thatneed to either take action or
(21:34):
not take action.
SPEAKER_00 (21:35):
Totally.
SPEAKER_01 (21:37):
It's not our responsibility to, I guess, feel
responsible for the people thatwe love.
Sure.
Because we could only do somuch.
SPEAKER_02 (21:47):
100%.
Me included, no one wants to betold what to do.
I have very few friends orpeople in my life.
They don't want advice.
They don't want your help.
They don't want anything.
And you can be sitting theregoing, I think that I have the
answers here.
Why are you not taking thisadvice?
(22:08):
Listen to me.
They don't want to do it.
It took me a long time torealize like, you know what?
I can give my best advice, butthese people, they got to figure
it out on their own.
I'm the same way.
Like, I don't want to listenhalf the time.
SPEAKER_01 (22:25):
Well, it's hard too.
When you feel like you have theanswer and you want to help and
you see someone suffering, it'shard to let it go when you've
offered help and they decidednot to take help.
SPEAKER_02 (22:36):
Yeah, I'm guilty of it too.
I go through my things of like,nah, I got it figured out.
SPEAKER_01 (22:41):
Well, what is it that you were wanting to work
out through therapy?
SPEAKER_02 (22:45):
I keep all this stuff in.
My biggest thing is I cancompartmentalize very well.
like me coming on and doing thispodcast, this interview, it's
like, cool.
I have someone cleaning my mom'shouse while I'm watching her
dog.
At the end of the day, like thisis work for me.
While I sat at a PR checking mymom into the emergency room at
(23:07):
midnight last night, you know?
So it's like right there, that'sa pretty good indication of
like, yo, you're obviouslyblocking a huge thing out.
This massive thing, your bestfriend, your mother, You
literally had to not only helpher for the last two days in the
house to the point where it gotso bad that her cancer doctors
can't even see her because sheneeds to get checked into an ER
(23:29):
to get proper fluids becauseshe's so weak.
Like, that's totally normalright there.
You should totally be able towake up, start doing chores
around the house for your sickmom and do work with an
interview.
It's like, that's not normal.
Like, I'm not even going to tryto hide the fact that, you know,
that's some heavy shit rightthere.
SPEAKER_01 (23:49):
What are some things that you're doing for your own
mental health routines that youdo on the daily that keep mental
health as a priority in yourlife?
SPEAKER_02 (24:00):
I have a lot of hobbies.
I love to run.
So I go running.
I run like three to five milesevery morning.
I like to hike.
So I go hiking.
I'll do like good five milehikes just by myself.
I like those times todecompress, think, ponder and go
over things.
I do a lot of mountain biking.
(24:21):
It's a bit more intense.
I don't think when I'm mountainbiking, that's more like zoned
out to music and just kind ofget lost in the activity.
So those are really heavy waysto decompress, let out stress.
And then on top of that, I amreally fortunate that I have
great friends and family that Ican call, talk with.
I hold things in and it can comeacross like, I'm not a super
(24:45):
emotional person because I justhold it in and I don't even talk
about it.
Fortunately, I have great peoplein my life that I'm trying to
open up to more, share morewith.
The drummer of American Authors,my drummer, Matt, and I will get
on the phone and we'll talkevery day or maybe every other
day for an hour to two hours.
SPEAKER_01 (25:06):
That's so great.
That's really great therapy.
SPEAKER_02 (25:08):
Yeah, it's awesome.
I love those sessions because Wecome up with some really good
ideas on those conversations andthey can come at like the hour
and 50 mark.
You know, I would never look atit as a waste of time because
you get one great idea, whichwe've had several really good
ideas out of these conversationswhere I'll just like go on a
(25:28):
walk.
I call them my walk and talks.
My friends know now when I callthem at 2 PM on a Tuesday,
they're like, all right, Zach'sout on a walk and talk right
now.
So they've come to expect itfrom me.
SPEAKER_01 (25:39):
You know, we talk about therapy.
I also say that being open andhonest and vulnerable with
someone that you love, someonethat you trust is really the
most amazing therapy becauseyou're going back and forth.
You're giving each other ideas.
You're giving each othersolutions or just sitting and
listening and be compassionate.
(26:01):
I mean, all of that is sohealthy for your mental health.
And especially during thispandemic, I know that this music
festival is focused on healingduring this pandemic.
Were there certain
SPEAKER_02 (26:14):
things
SPEAKER_01 (26:14):
that you need to heal from, from that time?
SPEAKER_02 (26:17):
The pandemic was crazy.
You know, I found it was soimportant.
I've just always been a phonecall person.
So with the pandemic, it waslike, all right, I'm just
calling everyone in my phonebook, calling friends from high
school, college friends, my workpartners, just everyone in
(26:38):
between.
It gave me a lot of time to kindof be alone and think about
what's going on in my life andthink about what's going on in
my business and the changes thatI needed to make.
I don't want to shed anypositivity on a pandemic because
at the end of the day, it'shorrible and sucks.
(27:00):
But maybe you can gather fromthis conversation with me, my
mind is just running all thetime.
And it's really hard for me toturn it off and to stop and to
slow down.
Like I'm a go, go, go.
It's like I run and hike andmountain bike.
(27:20):
It's not sitting and journalingand taking quiet time and
watching TV all day.
So the pandemic for me, therewas a lot of sitting in silence
by myself.
And it did allow me to go, oh,let me take a step back here.
There's some real toxic elementsin my life.
in my business that I need toremove.
(27:44):
It allowed me to make thosechanges and take the amount of
time that was needed to makethose proper changes.
It allowed me to discover a newway to write music.
So it did allow me to like slowdown as far as missing out on
personal connections and allthat.
Again, I was super fortunate tobe locked in with my girlfriend.
(28:06):
So just to have that otherperson around was, Insane.
That was great for us.
I talked with my bass player,Dave.
He's one of my best friends.
I'm like, don't count him out.
Me and him, we may not talkevery day like me and my
drummer, but we talk maybe twicea week for a good hour, two
hours.
So it's like we still have thatrelationship.
(28:27):
And he was alone for thepandemic.
He was by himself in New YorkCity.
He was locked in New York City,Brooklyn, epicenter of
everything by himself.
And he's the most social personI know.
His experience is very differentfrom mine.
It was such a crappy situationfor him because his sister had
(28:47):
passed away like two monthsbefore.
It was just such an intensesituation for him where it was
like he's mourning the loss ofhis sister and then goes
straight into this lockdown andhe's by himself.
I mean, that dude nearly losthis mind.
So that was really tough to see.
(29:09):
You know, and me and him wouldtalk, you know, we talked a lot
on the phone because again, wewere cross country from each
other, but I can't even imagine.
It's taking him a while torecover.
He's not recovered by any means,but he's coming out of the
pandemic in such a different wayof like, oh, this is taking me a
while to adjust, get back intothe groove of things.
(29:32):
He'll even admit, he's like,dude, it's hard for me to even
figure out how to act in asocial setting, whether that's
back in the studio while writingtogether or like getting back
into the swing of life.
SPEAKER_01 (29:46):
Well, I think that's something to recognize is that
we were kind of forced into thispandemic.
We didn't really have time totransition, but there is
transition that happens to comeback into the world.
There's a lot of anxiety thatgoes with it and having to
relearn things that we weredoing you know, two years ago
before this pandemic hit?
SPEAKER_02 (30:08):
You know, my girlfriend, she gets sick really
easily.
And so for her, and especiallywith her anxiety and her mental
health, it's been really toughfor her integrating back into
large groups and just groups ingeneral.
We've been splitting our timebetween California and Las
Vegas.
(30:28):
And we took some friends out inVegas and we went down to
Fremont street, A lot of people,you know, just walking, nothing
crazy.
And she just broke down and hada panic attack.
You know, because of COVID, it'slike, it was a lot.
She just had to get off, brokedown.
And it was just too much for herto be around that many people.
(30:48):
It was just like heavyoverstimulation from the crowds.
And we're trying to ease herback in.
And she is easing in and she'sdoing a really good job.
But for me personally, I needto...
Be patient.
I need to practice grace andlike, hey, this is okay.
We don't need to go out to thesethings.
(31:10):
We can pick and choose where wego.
We go to a concert.
We'll be double masked.
We will do this how you want todo it to ease you back in from
these years of being isolatedfrom people.
SPEAKER_01 (31:24):
Thank you so much, Zach Barnett.
Is there anything else that youwould like to say about the
Sound Mind Live concert?
SPEAKER_02 (31:32):
First of all, Sound Mind is an incredible
organization.
It's going to be an amazingconcert.
The lineup is sick.
I'm such a huge fan of literallyevery artist that's on it.
At the end of the day, New YorkCity is where American authors
really came together andblossomed.
It's going to be awesome to beable to come back to the best
city in the world and perform inone of the best parks in the
(31:55):
entire world.
Come on out.
It's a great cause.
I think it can only do amazingthings for anyone's mental
health to be at that beautifulfestival.
SPEAKER_01 (32:08):
Next up, we have Chris Bullard, a musician who
toured with the likes of ChrisChristopherson and Willie
Nelson, and is also the founderof Sound Mind Live.
Sound Mind Live is a nonprofitthat will be hosting the Music
for Mental Health concert thisSaturday, May 21st, in New York
City's Central Park.
The show will feature artistssuch as Cold War Kids, Big Boy,
(32:30):
and American authors.
Chris will share how his ownexperience with bipolar disorder
inspired him to become a mentalhealth advocate.
I read that you started SoundMind Live because you had your
own experience with bipolardisorder.
So I wanted to start with yougiving me a little background on
(32:52):
what that journey was about.
SPEAKER_00 (32:54):
Yeah, definitely important part of my process and
life journey that got me where Iam today.
For me, so for those who aren'tfamiliar with bipolar disorder,
there's bipolar 1 and 2.
I was diagnosed with bipolar 1,which is where you have manic
and depressive symptoms.
So depression, most people know.
(33:15):
Mania is like heightened statesof mood, racing thoughts.
that can be disconnected withreality at some point.
And it's often triggered by highstress periods.
And for me, this kind of came toa head, I think it was in my mid
20s, like 26.
I was moving away from touringas a musician into the next
phase of my life.
(33:36):
And in this moment of a lot ofchange and about to move to New
York City.
I remember I just started sayinga number of things that were
jarring to my girlfriend at thetime and my parents.
acting in strange ways.
I left a work meeting and wentback to it twice, knocking on
the door.
And there was just concern beingexpressed around what's going on
(34:00):
with Chris.
It kind of came to a real headwhen I left my girlfriend at the
Times Place and I said, I needto walk to my parents' place.
It was like 100 miles away.
And they're like, okay,something's going on.
And they took me to get checkedout.
And I was actually in a psychward for about 72-hour hold, so
(34:21):
three days.
And after that, I was diagnosedwith bipolar disorder, which at
the time I knew surface levelwhat that was and faced a lot of
really internal stigma aroundreaching out for support and
also just a lack of education ofknowing where to turn, who were
the organizations out there thatwere providing services.
(34:42):
I'd never gone to therapy yet atthat time in my life.
And so there was just a lot tofigure out.
And honestly, it wasn't untilprobably three or four years
later and having a couple otherepisodes until I got it under
control into a place where it'scalled living in recovery, where
it's always something I need tomanage, but I'm living in a much
(35:03):
healthier place.
Many people live very productiveand very great lives with
bipolar disorder, but it'sdefinitely something that you
just have to be mindful of.
SPEAKER_01 (35:14):
I just find it a really interesting disorder
because of the extremes thatcould happen.
But you also mentioned thatstress was something that can
sometimes preclude an episode.
Was that true for you?
Or did it just come out of theblue?
No,
SPEAKER_00 (35:30):
I mean, it was definitely, I was in a place
where financially it was hard.
I was trying to figure out mynext steps life-wise.
And so there were a lot ofthings that felt like they were
coming to a head.
Like a lot of people, when we'reunder high stress, it's like our
physical health and our mentalhealth are susceptible.
And someone who lives withbipolar disorder, the most
(35:51):
helpful things for me inmanaging it has just been, if
I'm stressful, meditating,making sure I'm getting enough
sleep, eating well, exercising,those common things that
everyone should be doing.
I know for myself, and I thinkfor others that live with
bipolar or a similar condition,the impact of not doing those
(36:12):
things, it's just extraimportant to be able to do that.
But to answer your question, itdefinitely was related.
SPEAKER_01 (36:20):
You were talking about the stigma and also, I'm
sure, just the confusion thatgoes on.
It's sort of a scary time whenyou're diagnosed with something
that you really are not familiarwith and then having to seek out
treatment and finding what isgoing to work for you.
And you mentioned some naturalthings that a lot of people do
(36:43):
for maintenance, but was thereever a time where you had to do
any talk therapy or medicaltherapy?
SPEAKER_00 (36:50):
Yeah, for me, talk therapy has been a huge one.
I'm fortunate enough to have agreat friend and family group
that I can talk to, but it's sowonderful to have a therapist
that I can talk to as stress arebuilding.
I'm someone who so much rattlesaround in my mind all the time.
And that kind of stuff can addup.
(37:12):
And if you're not venting itout, it kind of feels almost
like steam aggregating in acontainer.
It's just going to burst at acertain point if you don't let
it out on a regular basis.
So for me, talk therapy hasdefinitely been a huge aspect in
being able to process all ofthat on an ongoing basis, rather
than letting it build up in myhead and in my body.
(37:34):
So that's been huge.
I know I mentioned meditationtoo.
And for me, that's a way on myown to clear my head of
thoughts, try to be present andnot get so caught up in the
things that are stressing me outand realizing that so much of my
life is my own perspective andapproach towards it.
SPEAKER_01 (37:53):
Well, I also wanted to talk about Sound Mind Live
and your inspiration and passionbehind it.
Like why You decided to createthis nonprofit.
SPEAKER_00 (38:04):
So a couple of things came together for it.
One of them was that initialexperience when I was in a psych
ward for a few days.
Music was so powerful in my ownhealing.
I've always played guitar andpiano, and I was writing music
in there.
And I remember there was a timewhen I grabbed a guitar and
started playing.
(38:24):
And you have people from allwalks of life.
You have people off Wall Streetand finance, as well as people
in off the street, and everyonecoming together around music.
It was just a really powerfulexperience.
And I think at that point, itwas just healing for me.
And it wasn't until much laterwhen I moved to New York City
from LA, which is where I'moriginally from, I started a
(38:45):
music support program for theNational Alliance on Mental
Illness, which does peer-to-peersupport groups.
And just using music as a way tobring people together, talk
about mental health, buildcommunity, have a good time
together.
And then around the time Istarted that, this music
industry report came out thatyou might be aware of that said
that 73% of artists live withsymptoms of anxiety and
(39:08):
depression.
And it just very much resonatedas a creative myself that
musicians and other creativesdeal with mental health issues
so prominently.
And there's so much thatmusicians and the music
community could do to furtherthis cause in the same way
music's been able to furtherother causes like the social
(39:28):
justice movement and people likeSam Cooke.
I had the good fortune ofperforming Willie Nelson, who
started Farm Aid, which supportsfamily farmers through music.
And so really the vision forSound Mind was building this
community of musicians, rangingfrom independent artists to
Grammy-winning andmulti-platinum artists who care
about the cause, who have hadtheir own experiences, who are
(39:52):
willing to share that and usetheir platform as a source of
good so others can feelcomfortable reaching out for
support and then also know whereto turn when that moment comes
for themselves.
SPEAKER_01 (40:01):
Right.
I mean, it's so important toknow different organizations
like your organization and wehave a lot listed on
checkyourheadpodcast.com but mything was every time we talk
about mental illness there'salways this suicide prevention
hotline at the end which isgreat but there's hundreds of
(40:25):
organizations that are veryspecific let's say to bipolar to
panic attacks to autism to somany different mood disorders
that somebody is going throughpanic attacks, they would want
to go to a specific place toknow about that.
First of all, you're talkingabout this music support program
(40:46):
that you developed with NAMI.
Can you tell me about that?
Because I think that's reallyinteresting.
SPEAKER_00 (40:52):
Yeah, it was something that I went in not
even knowing what it was goingto be.
I was just kind of like, I'mgoing to bring in guitar and see
who shows up.
And I would just put out a callof music group happening every
Thursday.
And music is such an easygateway into being able to
relate to other people.
And we always used to start thegroup with sharing a song that
(41:14):
meant something to us or got usthrough a difficult time.
Then it moved to singing witheach other and just really using
music because music expresseseverything.
emotion.
And emotion is really a resultof everything that's going on in
our physical and mental spaceinternally, which we often don't
see or talk about.
And I think the pandemic was thefirst time where you said, how
(41:37):
are you?
And someone gave you a realresponse of how they were
actually doing.
And so in that aspect, thatmusic group was just a way to
break the seal of talking aboutmental health and helping people
open up a little and feel littlemore comfortable, a little more
seen.
And one of the biggest thingswith things like depression and
(41:59):
a number of other mentalhealth-related issues is people
feeling isolated.
And so that's one of the bigwalls that I was trying to break
with creating that.
And that sound mind is trying tobreak as well, the whole idea of
you're not alone.
SPEAKER_01 (42:14):
Yeah.
There's also a really greatfeeling, a feeling that I have
not felt before when you playwith another musician and you're
on the same sonic page or yousing with somebody else there's
a collective thing that happensand also during a live show of
course everybody being in thesame room on the same page it
(42:35):
just feels so good and thatfeeling can last for a long time
so thank you so much forcreating that Now, I know
Soundline Live is putting on aconcert in New York City Central
Park.
That's May 21st of 2022.
It's called the Music for MentalHealth Concert.
Could you tell me what you'remost excited about with this
(42:56):
upcoming show?
SPEAKER_00 (42:57):
One of the things I'm most excited about is we've
been in this pandemic for acouple years, and the country is
just starting to come back tolife.
And it's such an importantmoment to come together and
acknowledge that I'm reallyexcited that we have all these
amazing artists who are coming,Cold War kids, big boy, American
(43:19):
authors, a number of folks, notjust from New York City, but we
also have the New York CityHealth Commissioner saying some
words to Linda Bennington, thewidow of Chester Bennington's
coming.
All these people are coming totalk about why it's so important
that we don't stop thisconversation around mental
health.
SPEAKER_01 (43:38):
New York City really was an epicenter of the COVID
pandemic, a lot of losses in NewYork City.
It really is an important placeto hold this concert, you know,
in tribute to the people thatwe've lost and people that are
still going through theirhealing journey.
I talked with Zach of AmericanAuthors, and it turns out he has
(44:02):
a mother who he supports withher bipolar.
That was a really greatconversation to be able to hear
how to support others Theconcept really is focused on the
mental health impact of COVID.
What kind of healing did youneed as a result of this
pandemic?
SPEAKER_00 (44:19):
I think for me, it was that personal connection
element.
I was behind a screen for somuch of it from a work
perspective with friends andjust staying connected was
really important for me.
I know one of the silver liningswas being able to spend time
(44:40):
Thanksgiving, for example, withmy mom, who is on the other
coast, who I couldn't go homeand see, but we were able to
spend Thanksgiving together, herat the end of the table on Zoom.
And so being able to keep thosepersonal connections and build
on them, even in the pandemic,it was such a moment where we
needed to support one another.
(45:01):
I know the organization wasgoing through a lot because
there was such a need to talkabout mental health.
we were really busy.
And so I was actually quitestressed as well with everything
going on in the pandemic.
And so having access to peoplein my life, doing the virtual
support groups online, talkingwith family, doing things like
(45:24):
one of my friends does a virtualtrivia where there's 40 friends
doing trivia online.
And all of those things were sohelpful and impactful for me to
be able to stay connected withfriends.
SPEAKER_01 (45:38):
One thing the pandemic brought us was kind of
forced us to go online and to dothings like this, Zoom, where we
can connect with each other.
It's not the same as a liveshow, but it is a feeling of
connection and a feeling ofbeing able to reach out to
somebody if for whatever reasonsyou're stuck at home.
(46:00):
There are mood disorders likeagoraphobia where people need to
be able to reach out in a waythat considers their situation
as well.
We talked about some of theself-care routines that you do,
meditation and good nutrition,exercise, things like that.
(46:21):
One thing with musicians is thatsometimes it's hard to get into
those routines because you getso passionate about your work.
You might stay up late, youmight have crazy hours where you
may not be able to get that asolid eight hours of sleep.
How were you able to create theroutines to kind of keep up with
(46:41):
your mental health maintenance?
SPEAKER_00 (46:44):
To your point, it's definitely hard for musicians so
often on the go and so manydemands coming from left and
right.
I think Two things.
One is like starting small.
What are the easy routines youcan do every day?
It could be as simple as I knowone thing during the pandemic
for me was taking a long walkevery morning.
(47:07):
Rather than just getting out ofbed, grabbing my coffee and
jumping into the day, it wasokay, I'm going to take a long
walk and be present on that walkand try not to think about work
and texting people and all thatstuff.
That's something I can committo.
And the other thing is trying tounplug sometimes and just
remembering the importance ofthat.
(47:28):
Obviously, we live in such avirtual digital world where
social media is necessary andtotally for musicians it is too.
And I think one of the thingsI've found and that I've heard
from others is just creating adedicated space to unplugging,
even if that's rare, but juststill making the commitment to
(47:49):
do it can be so healthy.
Starting small, not thinkingthat you need to do it all at
once, like a flip of the switch,because then it's kind of like a
New Year's resolution.
You do it for a week and thenyou burn out.
But just what are the smallthings that I can commit to in
my daily life and my dailypractice that I can build on?
SPEAKER_01 (48:09):
So with Sound Mind Live, you mentioned support
groups, different resources.
Can you explain some of theresources that people can tap
into when they go on tosoundmindlive.org?
SPEAKER_00 (48:22):
Yeah, we've got a great resource page there.
There's so many groups andthings that people can access
for different conditions andcommunities.
One of the things that we'vereally tried to do for the music
community is creating community.
So similar to you, we run ourown podcast and we do videos
with artists and we try toconnect them as much as possible
(48:44):
through our events where theycan come together and artists
who have dealt with mentalhealth issues can connect.
connect, you know, perform, butalso have an opportunity to
build community around somethingthat they're passionate about.
SPEAKER_01 (48:57):
Chris, I'm totally excited about the concert, Music
for Mental Health.
Is there anything else that youwould like to say about Bipolar,
about Sound Mind Live, or aboutthe upcoming concert?
SPEAKER_00 (49:11):
Yeah, I would just say if anyone out there is
struggling with their mentalhealth, you are definitely not
alone.
I and many others have been onthat journey and just taking
those small first steps can behuge.
Whether that's reaching out to afriend or going to a support
group or whatever that thingyou've been bushing, if you
should do, it doesn't hurt totry it.
(49:32):
And then for those who are inNew York City,
soundmindlive.org.
You can get tickets to ourevent.
It's also going to be streamedto TikTok.
So if you're anywhere elsearound the country, we're at
soundmindlive on TikTok, andit'll be there on May 21st.
All the proceeds are supportingthe National Alliance on Mental
Illness as well.
They have completely freeprograms around mental health.
(49:54):
So we want to make sure to getpeople out and support the cause
as much as possible.
SPEAKER_01 (49:59):
A big thank you to our musical guest, Zach Barnett
of American Authors and ChrisBullard of Sound Mind Live.
For more information on AmericanAuthors, visit
weareamericanauthors.com.
And for more information onSound Mind Live and to buy
tickets to the music festivalfor mental health on May 21st,
visit soundmindlive.org.
(50:21):
So until next time, be brave,ask for help, and be persistent
in finding the mental healththat you need.
Check Your Head Podcast iskindly supported and partnered
with Sweet Relief MusiciansFund, DBSA San Gabriel Valley,
Earshot Media, and Lemon TreeStudios in Los Angeles.
Visit checkyourheadpodcast.comwhere we have over 100 solutions
(50:44):
for mental health.
Be our friends on social mediaat Check Your Head Podcast.
Watch us on YouTube and supportus with a kind donation on
checkyourheadpodcast.com.
Check Your Head podcast issponsored by a 501c3 nonprofit
with all donations being taxdeductible.
Thank you for your support andthank you for listening.
Welcome to the Check Your Head podcast, a podcast
where notable musicians andexperts share their stories and
solutions for mental health andwellness.
I'm your host, Mari Fong, amusic journalist and life coach
for musicians, and today we havea band that is best known for
their hit single, Best Day of MyLife, which has been featured in
(00:23):
movie trailers, commercials, andas a theme song for the Stanley
Cup Playoffs.
Today we have Zach Barnett ofAmerican Authors, who will be
sharing about caring for hismother with bipolar disorder and
the importance of being a mentalhealth support for those you
love.
American Authors will be playingat the upcoming Music for Mental
Health concert on May 21, 2022,hosted by the non-profit Sound
(00:48):
Mind Live.
Next, I'll be talking with ChrisBullard, the founder of Sound
Mind Live, who'll share how hisown bipolar disorder inspired
him to become a mental healthadvocate for musicians.
But first, let's hear ZachBarnett of American Authors
share his story.
One thing I really love aboutAmerican Authors is that the
(01:10):
lyrics and the melodies arepositive, they're empowering,
they're messages of hope.
And of course, the The best dayof my life is a great shining
example of that.
You recently dropped Timelesswith Chad Tepper and Nice and
Easy with Mark McGrath.
But I wanted to start off byasking, what made you decide as
(01:33):
a band to go in this positivedirection with your music and
your lyrics?
SPEAKER_02 (01:39):
Well, I think so much of our journey as a band,
as American authors, as peopleis Nothing ever came easy, you
know.
It was always a struggle.
It was always doing thingsourselves, grinding, working
through the hardships.
And I don't think any of thathustle would have been possible
to get through if it wasn't forthat light at the end of the
(02:02):
tunnel.
For us, it really was so muchabout small victories, seeing
that light at the end of thetunnel.
So it's like, okay, right now ishard.
Right now there's work.
Right now it's not.
going amazing and there aredifficulties to get through but
it was holding on to the hope ofknowing that if we make it
through this we can get throughthese times right now we'll make
(02:25):
it to that light at the end overhere so I think when it came to
writing lyrics and doingAmerican Authors and starting
that group as far as the soundand the message it was really
just writing what we know Eventoday with American authors,
after gaining success, it's likewe still have struggles.
(02:47):
There are still just as manystruggles in our personal lives,
in the music industry today asthere were back then.
It's not like, okay, you get arecord deal and now everything's
perfect, easy peasy.
No, it's like you still have toobtain those small victories,
those small goals, see thatlight at the end.
So it was really just writingwhat we know, still writing what
(03:09):
we know.
making sure that it's honest isso important with these overly
positive type songs, because,you know, if you have these
happy go lucky songs that areused in TV and movies, it can be
really easy to forget what themessage is and they can come
across as really ingenuine.
(03:30):
And I think what has been socool for American authors is
when you go back and you listento the stories with our songs,
like if you take, Some of ourbiggest songs, like Best Day of
My Life for Believer,especially, when you listen to
the chorus of Believer, sure, itsays, I'm a believer that things
will get better, and it has thisreally poppy melody.
But when you listen or read theverse lyrics, it's saying, I'm
(03:53):
sheltered, I'm scared, I'mnervous, I'm going nowhere.
It's talking about all theseinsecurities that we have, which
I think really gives Americanauthors confidence.
a good story, which providesthat it's just not
happy-go-lucky.
It has a message, and it has themessage of hope.
My mom is going through chemofor a second time, so I'm in
(04:15):
Phoenix helping her out andtaking care of her.
I had to get her into thehospital last night for some
complications and whatnot, soI'm basically taking care of
everything.
I'm taking care of her dog.
I got a cleaner to come out andbasically clean the house while
she's in the hospital right now.
So I'm just kind of like settingup the cleaner who just got here
(04:39):
and then making sure her dog'ssituated outside.
SPEAKER_01 (04:41):
Well, healing, hopes, and love to your mother.
Thank you.
I can't even imagine how toughthat is.
Well, you know, this is actuallya really good example of what
happens when you're goingtowards your goals.
Life happens.
Personal things happen.
are always happeningunexpectedly.
(05:02):
I read that when you wrote TheBest Day of My Life, that you
were actually going through somereally tough struggles with the
band.
SPEAKER_02 (05:11):
Yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_01 (05:12):
Can you explain some of the hardship that you've gone
through and sort of come out theother end?
SPEAKER_02 (05:18):
Yeah, sure.
I mean, with this dream of musicand wanting to do this
professionally and taking therisks, it was super tough for
me.
But I fortunately got acceptedto Berklee College of Music.
Unfortunately, I had no way topay for it.
So the only way I was able to gomy first semester is because my
high school ex-girlfriend's dadlent me the money for my first
(05:42):
semester.
I basically had no other way.
I was too late to apply forloans at that point.
So he believed in me and he lentme the money for the first
semester to get there.
Then I was able to apply forloans for the semester after
that.
But even after that firstsemester, my father passed away
from heart complications at 50years old.
(06:02):
That was an insane thing.
My father passing like freshmanin college and, you know, had to
just drop everything and go toCalifornia for his funeral.
And it was so unexpected.
That was just a huge test for mewhere I was like, okay, what do
I do?
Like, do I take the rest of thesemester off?
Do I stay with my family inCalifornia?
(06:24):
I figured, well, you know, I'mhere.
I've taken so many risks just toget to this college, just to get
to this school.
I might as well not let it go towaste and finish out the
semester and keep pushingthrough the dream.
And he would want me to keeppushing and make this dream
happen because, you know, hepushed for his so long and never
got music to the place of acareer that he would have
(06:46):
wanted.
But, you know, it's all good.
It happens.
You know, that was a huge test.
After that, my mom decided toretire early because of her
battle with mental health andthe severity of her bipolar.
She did some crazy stuff, man.
She sold the house that I grewup in, and she bought an RV, and
she traveled around the countryby herself, just living in
(07:08):
random places.
My second year in college, shehad to come live with me on our
tiny college apartment futon,and that was pretty intense.
I don't know if at that point Iwas necessarily a parent figure,
but it was like, You have yourmom crashing on your couch
because she's RVing around thecountry.
(07:28):
That was a shock.
It was just crazy stuff, dealingwith family.
Never in a bad way because Ilove my family.
My mom is my best friend, so Idon't really care that she's
crashing on my futon.
It's just like when you haveyour best friend crashing on
your futon for a little bitunexpectedly, it's like you're
getting tiffs and fights withyour best friend.
(07:49):
You got that going on with mycollege roommate at the time.
He's like, This is insane.
Like, what is happening?
But just odd jobs.
Dropped out of school shortlyafter that.
Moved to New York City to keepthe dream alive.
When we wrote Best Day of MyLife and Believer, we were at
this point like 25, 26 yearsold.
(08:09):
So we had been working togetheras American authors since we
were 19.
So it was not an overnightthing, just working odd jobs and
bartending, hustling.
I lost my job to HurricaneSandy, which sucked.
My restaurant got flooded out.
So I was doing really weirdstuff.
(08:29):
I was acting as like doingbackground work in TV shows.
And I lived in a haunted housefor a reality show because it
paid pretty well.
And it was pretty heavy, likeghost hunting detective work,
which was super fun.
Look, I definitely tell peoplewhen they ask me about that, I
will tell people if I could havethe same career in ghost hunting
(08:50):
as I am fortunate enough to havein music.
I will stop doing musicprofessionally tomorrow and be a
full-time ghost hunter.
I am sorry to everyone involvedwith American Authors.
I'm out.
I'll be full-time ghost hunter.
I loved it.
It was so fun.
You
SPEAKER_01 (09:05):
know, there's always side jobs.
SPEAKER_02 (09:07):
That was crazy because I was terrified.
And I was like, of course, likethe one high-paying gig that
like, I need this to pay for myrent.
Like my rent was super cheap.
My rent was like 300 bucks amonth, but it was like, this is
going to pay for my rent for theentire fall.
Of course it has to be like ahaunted house thing where I have
to live there for a week.
And I'm terrified of this, butit was like, look, you got to do
SPEAKER_01 (09:29):
it.
It changed your life.
SPEAKER_02 (09:31):
It changed my life.
It was very fun.
SPEAKER_01 (09:33):
Well, I'm glad you mentioned your mother having
bipolar and I was actually in asupport group called the
Depression and Bipolar SupportAlliance.
So I got to know people that hadbipolar and I experienced
depression and anxiety.
So I've had my own struggles.
But, you know, oftentimes mentalhealth disorders can be passed
down.
Was that ever something that youpersonally had to deal with?
SPEAKER_02 (09:57):
Not that I know of because I haven't really gone in
to get it checked out.
But my mom warns me.
She's like, look, my bipolar didnot start till I was around your
age.
So be cautious and keep an eyeout for these things.
Because when she got diagnosed,she was in her early 30s.
So she was around my age at thattime.
SPEAKER_01 (10:17):
Well, you grew up with a mother with bipolar.
And what comes with that isepisodes of mania and
depression.
How did that affect you as achild growing up?
SPEAKER_02 (10:29):
To be truthful, I didn't notice.
I didn't even know anythingabout this.
Because When I was growing up,this really was not something I
had ever heard of.
It wasn't talked about.
I don't even think I could havetold you what like depression or
bipolar even meant.
So I didn't know anything aboutthis.
And I'm sure my mom wasstruggling with mental health
(10:54):
this entire time, but she was asingle mom.
You know, she was working likethree jobs to pay bills and
whatnot.
And she was that rock star wherelike, She was a school teacher.
She did after school programs.
She taught summer school.
Then she had this like jokeunderwear business.
So when she came home fromteaching, she would be in the
basement doing like silkscreening.
(11:15):
Yeah, she'd be silk screeningall night long.
So it was like constant work.
But like she was doing all thisto provide me kind of whatever I
wanted.
Playstations for Hanukkah.
And I didn't understand thatlike, oh, We're broke as shit.
We're struggling.
She's struggling mentally.
I had no clue what any of thiswas.
(11:37):
And it wasn't until I was incollege where my mom was like,
Hey, will you be upset if I sellchildhood house?
I'm like, no, that's fine.
And then she explained to me,she's like, yeah, I'm retiring
early because I'm bipolar.
And like my mental health is notin check.
I'm not doing well mentally.
And for my mental and physicalhealth moving forward, I can't
(12:01):
continue to work.
So it's like, okay, that's whatyou need to do.
That's what you need to do.
And that's when I startedseeing, oh, okay, you sold the
house, but now you're gettingthis RV.
And now you need me to help youwith money.
You're asking me for favors.
Oh, you're coming to live withme.
And I guess such a role reversewhere I really started seeing
(12:22):
these things.
And it was like, oh, this isnew.
This is different.
SPEAKER_01 (12:27):
Everybody's story about their condition is
different.
It sounds like maybe you didn'tnotice it as much.
However, with depression, Imean, it could be really
debilitating.
You could start having reallynegative thoughts.
You could just want to be in bedand you really can't get up and
(12:48):
work because you're not thinkingstraight and it affects your
behavior as well.
I mean, can you think of anykind of depressive periods in
her life?
SPEAKER_02 (12:57):
Sure.
That's a huge thing that I'mworking on now too.
And my mom has conversationswith me about that today.
When I'll be like, Hey mom, didyou do this?
What's going on with this?
And she'll be exact.
I haven't been able to get outof bed for the last week.
It's like my depression is sobad right now where I haven't,
you know, even thought aboutanything.
I haven't even gotten up in Xamount of time.
(13:18):
And this is a huge thing thatI'm working on with therapists
throughout the years, working onwith my girlfriend who also
really, struggles with mentalhealth, depression, anxiety,
OCD, all these things likeheavy, heavy into it.
And I'd probably say really likein the last five years, trying
(13:39):
to not only start to get into myown mental health, but also
learn more about the people inmy life's mental health and be
sensitive.
And that's one of the biggestthings.
I haven't even really touch thetip of the iceberg with myself
because i've always been so headdown anxious with getting these
(14:02):
things done like okay this needsto be done i'm here taking care
of this it's like just from menow being with my mom in arizona
helping her with her cancertreatment right now taking care
of everything up from 10 a.m to10 p.m making calls cleaning the
house running errands makingsure she's okay, you know, doing
all these different things,taking her to the hospital last
(14:23):
night.
I don't even have time toprocess what's happening.
So I know this will come up formyself down the road with my
father passing away in college.
It's like, I went right back toschool because it was like,
well, I want to get this done.
I need to get this done.
I know there's still so much forme personally to unpack from
(14:43):
that experience, you know?
So right now, my biggest thing,because I have been so got to
get this done, done, done, done,done.
Like I want to do this, this,this, this, this.
For me, one of the biggestthings that I'm working on right
now is practicing patience,practicing grace with these
people around me where it'slike, oh, my girlfriend is
(15:04):
having a hard time with thesethings today.
So I need to step off.
I need to back away.
I need to give her that space.
You know, it's like, oh.
My mom can't do these thingsbecause of her depression or
because of what she's goingthrough mentally.
So it's like, okay, I need toback off.
I'm trying to help these peoplearound me, and now I'm just now
(15:26):
starting to try to figure myselfout, be cautious about these
things, and dive in to get thehelp for myself.
SPEAKER_01 (15:35):
Right.
Well, through your experience,you've really learned a lot
without really a choice becauseyou've been a support.
Right.
the people with mental healthissues.
And that's really important isto learn how to be a support.
We're never really taught that.
Talking about your mother, wereyou ever able to help her get
(15:59):
treatment or was she successfulin getting treatment for
herself?
SPEAKER_02 (16:04):
Yeah, for sure.
She's got proper medication.
She's talked with the rightprofessionals.
She's been...
working with therapists foryears and years now.
So yeah, she does a good jobgetting all that stuff taken
care of, getting the propertreatment.
I've always been there to helpin every way.
I'm trying to be as supportivewith everything as I possibly
(16:26):
can be.
I'm my mom's caregiver now andbought her a house and all that
stuff.
And so I try to be here as muchas I can.
And even if I'm not physicallyhere, but just always be there
for
SPEAKER_01 (16:37):
her.
Well, those things are soimportant.
Just knowing that You care forher and you show it and express
it in your words and youractions.
You mentioned your girlfriend.
Being in a day-to-dayrelationship with somebody, even
when you're on the road, thereare ways to support people with
what they're going through.
You mentioned about lettingpeople have their time when they
(17:00):
need it, but there's also timeswhen you might need to step in.
Can you think of times when youhad to step in?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (17:07):
Truthfully, I...
am such a person who I kind ofalways step in.
That's just how I roll.
It's like I'm always stepping inlike, hey, what can I do?
What can I help with?
What's going on?
How are you feeling?
I could be so overbearing withthat.
That was never really an issuewhere it's like, hey, what can I
help with?
Okay, you need help with this?
I got you.
(17:28):
For me, learning how to stepback where my girlfriend can be
like, dude, you're too much.
Stop asking me what I need.
Stop asking me what's going on.
Chill out and give me my metime.
Let me be alone here.
I will let you know what I needwhen I need it because you're
asking enough.
So that's been my challenge.
(17:49):
She's also been in such anawesome place with her mental
health now more than everbecause she was putting it on
the back burner for a long time,for years and years.
And yeah, it was really abouther going, yes, I have these
preexisting traumas.
(18:10):
I need professional help onthese.
I am going to step up, see atherapist, see a psychiatrist,
get proper medication if that'sneeded.
And since she did that, it'sbeen such an insane difference
to see how she handles dailylife, how she handles problems
(18:31):
that come up, to see how she caninteract with her family.
I'm next with this stuff becauseI know I have my entire set of
issues that I need to divedeeper into and address and
figure that out.
SPEAKER_01 (18:46):
Well, thank you for stepping in.
I
SPEAKER_02 (18:48):
don't even want to look at myself as I stepped in.
I think it was just the two ofus coming together, having those
conversations together.
I think she was the brave onefor even recognizing all that
stuff because I got plenty offriends too where it's like
they've had major traumas in thelast handful of years where it's
like, This is weighing on you.
I'm here to talk.
(19:09):
I'm here to help as much as Ican, but I am not a
professional.
I don't know the first thingabout anything.
I can be an open ear and I'll behere for you, but you've got to
talk with someone because it'saffecting you.
I see those people beingstubborn and not wanting to take
that next step.
You need to.
This is getting to a point whereit's unhealthy.
And I'm really proud of mygirlfriend for recognizing like,
(19:31):
okay, cool.
We all have these issues.
Mine are getting to a pointwhere it's borderline unhealthy
for myself.
Okay, we're having this talk.
Yes, I will step up, do this.
There is no shame in this.
I have no pride.
I've got to give mad props toher for doing that.
SPEAKER_01 (19:47):
Yeah.
And the thing is, is that theresistance is really the
problem.
Just looking at getting help asbravery instead of weakness.
And You talked about havingmental health issues due to
trauma, which I think we're allfamiliar with, that trauma can
affect our mental health in thelong term, not only in the short
(20:09):
term, but also that conditionslike bipolar could be genetic.
Sure.
You could be born with the DNAto have that triggered in you.
Totally.
And if we could all change ourmental health when it was
poor...
We would all do it because noone wants to go through that
depression, anxiety.
And I feel like there's alsothat idea in some way that we
(20:33):
can control it.
We can't control our mentalhealth, but we do need to take
responsibility for it.
And that is what your mother andyour girlfriend is doing, which
mad props to them as well.
SPEAKER_02 (20:45):
Yeah, I'm very proud of both.
And that's one of the biggestthings that I've learned over
the years is like, oh, okay,this is not something that you
can control, like you said.
And for me, As someone who canbe kind of an intense person,
such a big thing that I'velearned is take a step back.
Can't be harping on these peoplebecause it's like they can't
(21:05):
control how they wake up.
They can't control how they'refeeling about a situation.
It's like, okay, cool.
Take a step back, Zach.
SPEAKER_01 (21:12):
Well, there was a point where I was smiling a lot
because I was completelyunderstanding how you feel
because I'm that person as well.
I'm always that person thatwants to help, trying not to be
the over-giver.
But I've also realized that evenwhen you offer help, the buck
stops with the person.
They're really the ones thatneed to either take action or
(21:34):
not take action.
SPEAKER_00 (21:35):
Totally.
SPEAKER_01 (21:37):
It's not our responsibility to, I guess, feel
responsible for the people thatwe love.
Sure.
Because we could only do somuch.
SPEAKER_02 (21:47):
100%.
Me included, no one wants to betold what to do.
I have very few friends orpeople in my life.
They don't want advice.
They don't want your help.
They don't want anything.
And you can be sitting theregoing, I think that I have the
answers here.
Why are you not taking thisadvice?
(22:08):
Listen to me.
They don't want to do it.
It took me a long time torealize like, you know what?
I can give my best advice, butthese people, they got to figure
it out on their own.
I'm the same way.
Like, I don't want to listenhalf the time.
SPEAKER_01 (22:25):
Well, it's hard too.
When you feel like you have theanswer and you want to help and
you see someone suffering, it'shard to let it go when you've
offered help and they decidednot to take help.
SPEAKER_02 (22:36):
Yeah, I'm guilty of it too.
I go through my things of like,nah, I got it figured out.
SPEAKER_01 (22:41):
Well, what is it that you were wanting to work
out through therapy?
SPEAKER_02 (22:45):
I keep all this stuff in.
My biggest thing is I cancompartmentalize very well.
like me coming on and doing thispodcast, this interview, it's
like, cool.
I have someone cleaning my mom'shouse while I'm watching her
dog.
At the end of the day, like thisis work for me.
While I sat at a PR checking mymom into the emergency room at
(23:07):
midnight last night, you know?
So it's like right there, that'sa pretty good indication of
like, yo, you're obviouslyblocking a huge thing out.
This massive thing, your bestfriend, your mother, You
literally had to not only helpher for the last two days in the
house to the point where it gotso bad that her cancer doctors
can't even see her because sheneeds to get checked into an ER
(23:29):
to get proper fluids becauseshe's so weak.
Like, that's totally normalright there.
You should totally be able towake up, start doing chores
around the house for your sickmom and do work with an
interview.
It's like, that's not normal.
Like, I'm not even going to tryto hide the fact that, you know,
that's some heavy shit rightthere.
SPEAKER_01 (23:49):
What are some things that you're doing for your own
mental health routines that youdo on the daily that keep mental
health as a priority in yourlife?
SPEAKER_02 (24:00):
I have a lot of hobbies.
I love to run.
So I go running.
I run like three to five milesevery morning.
I like to hike.
So I go hiking.
I'll do like good five milehikes just by myself.
I like those times todecompress, think, ponder and go
over things.
I do a lot of mountain biking.
(24:21):
It's a bit more intense.
I don't think when I'm mountainbiking, that's more like zoned
out to music and just kind ofget lost in the activity.
So those are really heavy waysto decompress, let out stress.
And then on top of that, I amreally fortunate that I have
great friends and family that Ican call, talk with.
I hold things in and it can comeacross like, I'm not a super
(24:45):
emotional person because I justhold it in and I don't even talk
about it.
Fortunately, I have great peoplein my life that I'm trying to
open up to more, share morewith.
The drummer of American Authors,my drummer, Matt, and I will get
on the phone and we'll talkevery day or maybe every other
day for an hour to two hours.
SPEAKER_01 (25:06):
That's so great.
That's really great therapy.
SPEAKER_02 (25:08):
Yeah, it's awesome.
I love those sessions because Wecome up with some really good
ideas on those conversations andthey can come at like the hour
and 50 mark.
You know, I would never look atit as a waste of time because
you get one great idea, whichwe've had several really good
ideas out of these conversationswhere I'll just like go on a
(25:28):
walk.
I call them my walk and talks.
My friends know now when I callthem at 2 PM on a Tuesday,
they're like, all right, Zach'sout on a walk and talk right
now.
So they've come to expect itfrom me.
SPEAKER_01 (25:39):
You know, we talk about therapy.
I also say that being open andhonest and vulnerable with
someone that you love, someonethat you trust is really the
most amazing therapy becauseyou're going back and forth.
You're giving each other ideas.
You're giving each othersolutions or just sitting and
listening and be compassionate.
(26:01):
I mean, all of that is sohealthy for your mental health.
And especially during thispandemic, I know that this music
festival is focused on healingduring this pandemic.
Were there certain
SPEAKER_02 (26:14):
things
SPEAKER_01 (26:14):
that you need to heal from, from that time?
SPEAKER_02 (26:17):
The pandemic was crazy.
You know, I found it was soimportant.
I've just always been a phonecall person.
So with the pandemic, it waslike, all right, I'm just
calling everyone in my phonebook, calling friends from high
school, college friends, my workpartners, just everyone in
(26:38):
between.
It gave me a lot of time to kindof be alone and think about
what's going on in my life andthink about what's going on in
my business and the changes thatI needed to make.
I don't want to shed anypositivity on a pandemic because
at the end of the day, it'shorrible and sucks.
(27:00):
But maybe you can gather fromthis conversation with me, my
mind is just running all thetime.
And it's really hard for me toturn it off and to stop and to
slow down.
Like I'm a go, go, go.
It's like I run and hike andmountain bike.
(27:20):
It's not sitting and journalingand taking quiet time and
watching TV all day.
So the pandemic for me, therewas a lot of sitting in silence
by myself.
And it did allow me to go, oh,let me take a step back here.
There's some real toxic elementsin my life.
in my business that I need toremove.
(27:44):
It allowed me to make thosechanges and take the amount of
time that was needed to makethose proper changes.
It allowed me to discover a newway to write music.
So it did allow me to like slowdown as far as missing out on
personal connections and allthat.
Again, I was super fortunate tobe locked in with my girlfriend.
(28:06):
So just to have that otherperson around was, Insane.
That was great for us.
I talked with my bass player,Dave.
He's one of my best friends.
I'm like, don't count him out.
Me and him, we may not talkevery day like me and my
drummer, but we talk maybe twicea week for a good hour, two
hours.
So it's like we still have thatrelationship.
(28:27):
And he was alone for thepandemic.
He was by himself in New YorkCity.
He was locked in New York City,Brooklyn, epicenter of
everything by himself.
And he's the most social personI know.
His experience is very differentfrom mine.
It was such a crappy situationfor him because his sister had
(28:47):
passed away like two monthsbefore.
It was just such an intensesituation for him where it was
like he's mourning the loss ofhis sister and then goes
straight into this lockdown andhe's by himself.
I mean, that dude nearly losthis mind.
So that was really tough to see.
(29:09):
You know, and me and him wouldtalk, you know, we talked a lot
on the phone because again, wewere cross country from each
other, but I can't even imagine.
It's taking him a while torecover.
He's not recovered by any means,but he's coming out of the
pandemic in such a different wayof like, oh, this is taking me a
while to adjust, get back intothe groove of things.
(29:32):
He'll even admit, he's like,dude, it's hard for me to even
figure out how to act in asocial setting, whether that's
back in the studio while writingtogether or like getting back
into the swing of life.
SPEAKER_01 (29:46):
Well, I think that's something to recognize is that
we were kind of forced into thispandemic.
We didn't really have time totransition, but there is
transition that happens to comeback into the world.
There's a lot of anxiety thatgoes with it and having to
relearn things that we weredoing you know, two years ago
before this pandemic hit?
SPEAKER_02 (30:08):
You know, my girlfriend, she gets sick really
easily.
And so for her, and especiallywith her anxiety and her mental
health, it's been really toughfor her integrating back into
large groups and just groups ingeneral.
We've been splitting our timebetween California and Las
Vegas.
(30:28):
And we took some friends out inVegas and we went down to
Fremont street, A lot of people,you know, just walking, nothing
crazy.
And she just broke down and hada panic attack.
You know, because of COVID, it'slike, it was a lot.
She just had to get off, brokedown.
And it was just too much for herto be around that many people.
(30:48):
It was just like heavyoverstimulation from the crowds.
And we're trying to ease herback in.
And she is easing in and she'sdoing a really good job.
But for me personally, I needto...
Be patient.
I need to practice grace andlike, hey, this is okay.
We don't need to go out to thesethings.
(31:10):
We can pick and choose where wego.
We go to a concert.
We'll be double masked.
We will do this how you want todo it to ease you back in from
these years of being isolatedfrom people.
SPEAKER_01 (31:24):
Thank you so much, Zach Barnett.
Is there anything else that youwould like to say about the
Sound Mind Live concert?
SPEAKER_02 (31:32):
First of all, Sound Mind is an incredible
organization.
It's going to be an amazingconcert.
The lineup is sick.
I'm such a huge fan of literallyevery artist that's on it.
At the end of the day, New YorkCity is where American authors
really came together andblossomed.
It's going to be awesome to beable to come back to the best
city in the world and perform inone of the best parks in the
(31:55):
entire world.
Come on out.
It's a great cause.
I think it can only do amazingthings for anyone's mental
health to be at that beautifulfestival.
SPEAKER_01 (32:08):
Next up, we have Chris Bullard, a musician who
toured with the likes of ChrisChristopherson and Willie
Nelson, and is also the founderof Sound Mind Live.
Sound Mind Live is a nonprofitthat will be hosting the Music
for Mental Health concert thisSaturday, May 21st, in New York
City's Central Park.
The show will feature artistssuch as Cold War Kids, Big Boy,
(32:30):
and American authors.
Chris will share how his ownexperience with bipolar disorder
inspired him to become a mentalhealth advocate.
I read that you started SoundMind Live because you had your
own experience with bipolardisorder.
So I wanted to start with yougiving me a little background on
(32:52):
what that journey was about.
SPEAKER_00 (32:54):
Yeah, definitely important part of my process and
life journey that got me where Iam today.
For me, so for those who aren'tfamiliar with bipolar disorder,
there's bipolar 1 and 2.
I was diagnosed with bipolar 1,which is where you have manic
and depressive symptoms.
So depression, most people know.
(33:15):
Mania is like heightened statesof mood, racing thoughts.
that can be disconnected withreality at some point.
And it's often triggered by highstress periods.
And for me, this kind of came toa head, I think it was in my mid
20s, like 26.
I was moving away from touringas a musician into the next
phase of my life.
(33:36):
And in this moment of a lot ofchange and about to move to New
York City.
I remember I just started sayinga number of things that were
jarring to my girlfriend at thetime and my parents.
acting in strange ways.
I left a work meeting and wentback to it twice, knocking on
the door.
And there was just concern beingexpressed around what's going on
(34:00):
with Chris.
It kind of came to a real headwhen I left my girlfriend at the
Times Place and I said, I needto walk to my parents' place.
It was like 100 miles away.
And they're like, okay,something's going on.
And they took me to get checkedout.
And I was actually in a psychward for about 72-hour hold, so
(34:21):
three days.
And after that, I was diagnosedwith bipolar disorder, which at
the time I knew surface levelwhat that was and faced a lot of
really internal stigma aroundreaching out for support and
also just a lack of education ofknowing where to turn, who were
the organizations out there thatwere providing services.
(34:42):
I'd never gone to therapy yet atthat time in my life.
And so there was just a lot tofigure out.
And honestly, it wasn't untilprobably three or four years
later and having a couple otherepisodes until I got it under
control into a place where it'scalled living in recovery, where
it's always something I need tomanage, but I'm living in a much
(35:03):
healthier place.
Many people live very productiveand very great lives with
bipolar disorder, but it'sdefinitely something that you
just have to be mindful of.
SPEAKER_01 (35:14):
I just find it a really interesting disorder
because of the extremes thatcould happen.
But you also mentioned thatstress was something that can
sometimes preclude an episode.
Was that true for you?
Or did it just come out of theblue?
No,
SPEAKER_00 (35:30):
I mean, it was definitely, I was in a place
where financially it was hard.
I was trying to figure out mynext steps life-wise.
And so there were a lot ofthings that felt like they were
coming to a head.
Like a lot of people, when we'reunder high stress, it's like our
physical health and our mentalhealth are susceptible.
And someone who lives withbipolar disorder, the most
(35:51):
helpful things for me inmanaging it has just been, if
I'm stressful, meditating,making sure I'm getting enough
sleep, eating well, exercising,those common things that
everyone should be doing.
I know for myself, and I thinkfor others that live with
bipolar or a similar condition,the impact of not doing those
(36:12):
things, it's just extraimportant to be able to do that.
But to answer your question, itdefinitely was related.
SPEAKER_01 (36:20):
You were talking about the stigma and also, I'm
sure, just the confusion thatgoes on.
It's sort of a scary time whenyou're diagnosed with something
that you really are not familiarwith and then having to seek out
treatment and finding what isgoing to work for you.
And you mentioned some naturalthings that a lot of people do
(36:43):
for maintenance, but was thereever a time where you had to do
any talk therapy or medicaltherapy?
SPEAKER_00 (36:50):
Yeah, for me, talk therapy has been a huge one.
I'm fortunate enough to have agreat friend and family group
that I can talk to, but it's sowonderful to have a therapist
that I can talk to as stress arebuilding.
I'm someone who so much rattlesaround in my mind all the time.
And that kind of stuff can addup.
(37:12):
And if you're not venting itout, it kind of feels almost
like steam aggregating in acontainer.
It's just going to burst at acertain point if you don't let
it out on a regular basis.
So for me, talk therapy hasdefinitely been a huge aspect in
being able to process all ofthat on an ongoing basis, rather
than letting it build up in myhead and in my body.
(37:34):
So that's been huge.
I know I mentioned meditationtoo.
And for me, that's a way on myown to clear my head of
thoughts, try to be present andnot get so caught up in the
things that are stressing me outand realizing that so much of my
life is my own perspective andapproach towards it.
SPEAKER_01 (37:53):
Well, I also wanted to talk about Sound Mind Live
and your inspiration and passionbehind it.
Like why You decided to createthis nonprofit.
SPEAKER_00 (38:04):
So a couple of things came together for it.
One of them was that initialexperience when I was in a psych
ward for a few days.
Music was so powerful in my ownhealing.
I've always played guitar andpiano, and I was writing music
in there.
And I remember there was a timewhen I grabbed a guitar and
started playing.
(38:24):
And you have people from allwalks of life.
You have people off Wall Streetand finance, as well as people
in off the street, and everyonecoming together around music.
It was just a really powerfulexperience.
And I think at that point, itwas just healing for me.
And it wasn't until much laterwhen I moved to New York City
from LA, which is where I'moriginally from, I started a
(38:45):
music support program for theNational Alliance on Mental
Illness, which does peer-to-peersupport groups.
And just using music as a way tobring people together, talk
about mental health, buildcommunity, have a good time
together.
And then around the time Istarted that, this music
industry report came out thatyou might be aware of that said
that 73% of artists live withsymptoms of anxiety and
(39:08):
depression.
And it just very much resonatedas a creative myself that
musicians and other creativesdeal with mental health issues
so prominently.
And there's so much thatmusicians and the music
community could do to furtherthis cause in the same way
music's been able to furtherother causes like the social
(39:28):
justice movement and people likeSam Cooke.
I had the good fortune ofperforming Willie Nelson, who
started Farm Aid, which supportsfamily farmers through music.
And so really the vision forSound Mind was building this
community of musicians, rangingfrom independent artists to
Grammy-winning andmulti-platinum artists who care
about the cause, who have hadtheir own experiences, who are
(39:52):
willing to share that and usetheir platform as a source of
good so others can feelcomfortable reaching out for
support and then also know whereto turn when that moment comes
for themselves.
SPEAKER_01 (40:01):
Right.
I mean, it's so important toknow different organizations
like your organization and wehave a lot listed on
checkyourheadpodcast.com but mything was every time we talk
about mental illness there'salways this suicide prevention
hotline at the end which isgreat but there's hundreds of
(40:25):
organizations that are veryspecific let's say to bipolar to
panic attacks to autism to somany different mood disorders
that somebody is going throughpanic attacks, they would want
to go to a specific place toknow about that.
First of all, you're talkingabout this music support program
(40:46):
that you developed with NAMI.
Can you tell me about that?
Because I think that's reallyinteresting.
SPEAKER_00 (40:52):
Yeah, it was something that I went in not
even knowing what it was goingto be.
I was just kind of like, I'mgoing to bring in guitar and see
who shows up.
And I would just put out a callof music group happening every
Thursday.
And music is such an easygateway into being able to
relate to other people.
And we always used to start thegroup with sharing a song that
(41:14):
meant something to us or got usthrough a difficult time.
Then it moved to singing witheach other and just really using
music because music expresseseverything.
emotion.
And emotion is really a resultof everything that's going on in
our physical and mental spaceinternally, which we often don't
see or talk about.
And I think the pandemic was thefirst time where you said, how
(41:37):
are you?
And someone gave you a realresponse of how they were
actually doing.
And so in that aspect, thatmusic group was just a way to
break the seal of talking aboutmental health and helping people
open up a little and feel littlemore comfortable, a little more
seen.
And one of the biggest thingswith things like depression and
(41:59):
a number of other mentalhealth-related issues is people
feeling isolated.
And so that's one of the bigwalls that I was trying to break
with creating that.
And that sound mind is trying tobreak as well, the whole idea of
you're not alone.
SPEAKER_01 (42:14):
Yeah.
There's also a really greatfeeling, a feeling that I have
not felt before when you playwith another musician and you're
on the same sonic page or yousing with somebody else there's
a collective thing that happensand also during a live show of
course everybody being in thesame room on the same page it
(42:35):
just feels so good and thatfeeling can last for a long time
so thank you so much forcreating that Now, I know
Soundline Live is putting on aconcert in New York City Central
Park.
That's May 21st of 2022.
It's called the Music for MentalHealth Concert.
Could you tell me what you'remost excited about with this
(42:56):
upcoming show?
SPEAKER_00 (42:57):
One of the things I'm most excited about is we've
been in this pandemic for acouple years, and the country is
just starting to come back tolife.
And it's such an importantmoment to come together and
acknowledge that I'm reallyexcited that we have all these
amazing artists who are coming,Cold War kids, big boy, American
(43:19):
authors, a number of folks, notjust from New York City, but we
also have the New York CityHealth Commissioner saying some
words to Linda Bennington, thewidow of Chester Bennington's
coming.
All these people are coming totalk about why it's so important
that we don't stop thisconversation around mental
health.
SPEAKER_01 (43:38):
New York City really was an epicenter of the COVID
pandemic, a lot of losses in NewYork City.
It really is an important placeto hold this concert, you know,
in tribute to the people thatwe've lost and people that are
still going through theirhealing journey.
I talked with Zach of AmericanAuthors, and it turns out he has
(44:02):
a mother who he supports withher bipolar.
That was a really greatconversation to be able to hear
how to support others Theconcept really is focused on the
mental health impact of COVID.
What kind of healing did youneed as a result of this
pandemic?
SPEAKER_00 (44:19):
I think for me, it was that personal connection
element.
I was behind a screen for somuch of it from a work
perspective with friends andjust staying connected was
really important for me.
I know one of the silver liningswas being able to spend time
(44:40):
Thanksgiving, for example, withmy mom, who is on the other
coast, who I couldn't go homeand see, but we were able to
spend Thanksgiving together, herat the end of the table on Zoom.
And so being able to keep thosepersonal connections and build
on them, even in the pandemic,it was such a moment where we
needed to support one another.
(45:01):
I know the organization wasgoing through a lot because
there was such a need to talkabout mental health.
we were really busy.
And so I was actually quitestressed as well with everything
going on in the pandemic.
And so having access to peoplein my life, doing the virtual
support groups online, talkingwith family, doing things like
(45:24):
one of my friends does a virtualtrivia where there's 40 friends
doing trivia online.
And all of those things were sohelpful and impactful for me to
be able to stay connected withfriends.
SPEAKER_01 (45:38):
One thing the pandemic brought us was kind of
forced us to go online and to dothings like this, Zoom, where we
can connect with each other.
It's not the same as a liveshow, but it is a feeling of
connection and a feeling ofbeing able to reach out to
somebody if for whatever reasonsyou're stuck at home.
(46:00):
There are mood disorders likeagoraphobia where people need to
be able to reach out in a waythat considers their situation
as well.
We talked about some of theself-care routines that you do,
meditation and good nutrition,exercise, things like that.
(46:21):
One thing with musicians is thatsometimes it's hard to get into
those routines because you getso passionate about your work.
You might stay up late, youmight have crazy hours where you
may not be able to get that asolid eight hours of sleep.
How were you able to create theroutines to kind of keep up with
(46:41):
your mental health maintenance?
SPEAKER_00 (46:44):
To your point, it's definitely hard for musicians so
often on the go and so manydemands coming from left and
right.
I think Two things.
One is like starting small.
What are the easy routines youcan do every day?
It could be as simple as I knowone thing during the pandemic
for me was taking a long walkevery morning.
(47:07):
Rather than just getting out ofbed, grabbing my coffee and
jumping into the day, it wasokay, I'm going to take a long
walk and be present on that walkand try not to think about work
and texting people and all thatstuff.
That's something I can committo.
And the other thing is trying tounplug sometimes and just
remembering the importance ofthat.
(47:28):
Obviously, we live in such avirtual digital world where
social media is necessary andtotally for musicians it is too.
And I think one of the thingsI've found and that I've heard
from others is just creating adedicated space to unplugging,
even if that's rare, but juststill making the commitment to
(47:49):
do it can be so healthy.
Starting small, not thinkingthat you need to do it all at
once, like a flip of the switch,because then it's kind of like a
New Year's resolution.
You do it for a week and thenyou burn out.
But just what are the smallthings that I can commit to in
my daily life and my dailypractice that I can build on?
SPEAKER_01 (48:09):
So with Sound Mind Live, you mentioned support
groups, different resources.
Can you explain some of theresources that people can tap
into when they go on tosoundmindlive.org?
SPEAKER_00 (48:22):
Yeah, we've got a great resource page there.
There's so many groups andthings that people can access
for different conditions andcommunities.
One of the things that we'vereally tried to do for the music
community is creating community.
So similar to you, we run ourown podcast and we do videos
with artists and we try toconnect them as much as possible
(48:44):
through our events where theycan come together and artists
who have dealt with mentalhealth issues can connect.
connect, you know, perform, butalso have an opportunity to
build community around somethingthat they're passionate about.
SPEAKER_01 (48:57):
Chris, I'm totally excited about the concert, Music
for Mental Health.
Is there anything else that youwould like to say about Bipolar,
about Sound Mind Live, or aboutthe upcoming concert?
SPEAKER_00 (49:11):
Yeah, I would just say if anyone out there is
struggling with their mentalhealth, you are definitely not
alone.
I and many others have been onthat journey and just taking
those small first steps can behuge.
Whether that's reaching out to afriend or going to a support
group or whatever that thingyou've been bushing, if you
should do, it doesn't hurt totry it.
(49:32):
And then for those who are inNew York City,
soundmindlive.org.
You can get tickets to ourevent.
It's also going to be streamedto TikTok.
So if you're anywhere elsearound the country, we're at
soundmindlive on TikTok, andit'll be there on May 21st.
All the proceeds are supportingthe National Alliance on Mental
Illness as well.
They have completely freeprograms around mental health.
(49:54):
So we want to make sure to getpeople out and support the cause
as much as possible.
SPEAKER_01 (49:59):
A big thank you to our musical guest, Zach Barnett
of American Authors and ChrisBullard of Sound Mind Live.
For more information on AmericanAuthors, visit
weareamericanauthors.com.
And for more information onSound Mind Live and to buy
tickets to the music festivalfor mental health on May 21st,
visit soundmindlive.org.
(50:21):
So until next time, be brave,ask for help, and be persistent
in finding the mental healththat you need.
Check Your Head Podcast iskindly supported and partnered
with Sweet Relief MusiciansFund, DBSA San Gabriel Valley,
Earshot Media, and Lemon TreeStudios in Los Angeles.
Visit checkyourheadpodcast.comwhere we have over 100 solutions
(50:44):
for mental health.
Be our friends on social mediaat Check Your Head Podcast.
Watch us on YouTube and supportus with a kind donation on
checkyourheadpodcast.com.
Check Your Head podcast issponsored by a 501c3 nonprofit
with all donations being taxdeductible.
Thank you for your support andthank you for listening.
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