The Private Eye That Started It All - Pinkerton Detective Agency

This week Aaron takes John and Sean through the granddaddy of all private detectives, the Pinkerton Detective Agency. Learn how this storied company has survived hundreds of years and evolved from a train robbery investigation firm into a corporate union-busting powerhouse this week on Cheeky Tales.

 

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Scotland, a shipwreck,
Coin counterfeiting.
The Underground Railwoad.
The Underground
Railroad.
{Childish giggling}
Start again.
Nah, keep it!
Please keep it!The Undergwound Wailwoad.
At wasssst...

(00:20):
At waaaasst, my wove has...Abraham Lincoln.
Abwaham Wincoln.
Union bwusting.
Wed Dead Wedemption 2.Scotwand.
Okay. Scotwand.
All right, all right.
This.
This intro has goneoff the rails, but it is staying
No, this,
this intro needs to beput on the end of the episode.

(00:41):
No, it's going to be the intro.I don't care anymore.
The last three things I said
Abraham Lincoln, Union Bustingand Red Dead Redemption 2.
These seven things are linkedby one common thread.
W’s.
A common thread that developedinto a full blown industry
in the 1800sand spawned countless
movies,books, TV shows, and more.

(01:05):
You have probably heard of itin some capacity
and never even known.Speech pathology.
Tuberculosis.From the wide open
plains of the Westto the modern corporate world,
this week on CheekyTales, we're talking about
the one, the only,Pinkerton Detective Agency.

(01:35):
Yes, they are the precursor to
detectives.
Basically.
Have you heard of the name
PinkertonDetective Agency before? Yes.
Is that because I asked youboth about it about a week ago?
No. Okay, cool.
Where had you heard it from?

(01:56):
Red Dead redemption.
Yeah. Go.
That was always going to work.
That was good. That was awesome.
Oh, John'sdecided to take a piss.
He's got props.
Oh, not. Not in there, boy.
In the.
Yeah.
John's just rummagingthrough my stuff right now.
Yes. There you go.

(02:18):
Yes. Go to. Seth Aaron.
Go to sift.Through all the Wayne's.
Bordeaux Aids.
John has a plugfor those listening at home.
John has dug throughmy collection of games.
To find my. Gameand found Red Dead Redemption.
Aaron has Burrowsfor two years now.
Never played.
Yeah.
Still just. No,I never did play that one.
Yeah. You haven't playedthe single player of it?

(02:39):
Yeah. No.
We will gladly.
Play to the multiplayer tonight.
Yeah.
You played the multiplayerand you didn't
play the single player,which is dumb.
We've said it many, many times.
I made the mistakeof trying to play one first.
I should have just gone.
You should have. Just gonea. Two.
Yeah, and I might just go backand do that now.
I'm amazedyou still haven't done it.
It's great.
You love single player games?
I love single player games,John. Those single player games.

(03:00):
You've got my one. Two.Yes! Yeah.
It's you all now.
Yes, two. It's not too old.
It's old enough that it's.
I mean, you could play two
and go back and play oneif you really liked the story.
Yes, but I would recommendyou play two
so you can runinto the Pinkerton ads,
which are the topic this week.
So thePinkerton Detective Agency,
the man
behind the agency, AllanPinkerton, was born on August

(03:24):
21st of 1819, in the Gorbals,
which was a working classarea of Glasgow.
He had a regular lifewith his mother, Isabella
McQueen, and father,William Pinkerton.
Good. Yeah.
His mother would, keep the housewhile his father worked.
Let's look at 2000.
It's Troy.

(03:45):
Chow.
Sorry.
Chow.
It's funny to me when you say itreal flat, like,
Yeah,like the bit where he goes.
I use Rusty's.
Chow. Yeah.
So his motherwould keep the house
while his father workedas a policeman or jailer.
The history is a little murkyon that one.
But either way,at the age of ten,

(04:06):
Alan was forced out of schoolwhen the oh so typical tragedy
of his fatherdying occurred in 1822.
Happened a lot in these stories.
Yeah, most of them are likeit was a fun childhood
until parent died.
Yeah. The damn 30s.
The 1820s. Might 1929.
Yeah, it's basically the 30s.
Oh, here we go. Herewe go. I'm playing on the 30s.

(04:28):
The decade doesn't end untilfive years into the next one.
And it.
Only got fiveyears until we're in the 30s.
We've only just hit the 2020s.
Oh, geez.
Okay. Oh, dear. Oh, geez.
Alan and his brother neededto take up trades to support
the family, and Alanwould move into being a Cooper.
Eitheryou know what a Cooper is?
Yes. Cooper makes barrels.

(04:50):
But he doesn't assemblethe barrels.
He just makes the stuff for the.
Wine barrels type of thing or.
Any kind of barrel.
A Cooper makes the barrels andthe Hooper does the rest of it.
Yeah.
Because that's the metal.
Rings that hold the barrelstogether. Coops.
And who knows.
I take that for a beer company.
It's astonishingthat they're two different jobs.
I'm sure that already exists.

(05:11):
I'm going to cut thatout of the episode just in case.
It doesn't matter. Google it.
Cooper is alreadyexists, for God's sake.
At some point in 1842,
Allen would marry his wife, JoanCarr Fry, another Glaswegian
local who would be his wifeuntil his death.
As was common as.
Is at the end of the story,because he's done.
That's cool.

(05:31):
Yeah.
A Glasgow.
Yeah. Glasgowlocal. He's a Glaswegian.
That's like saying I'ma Brisbane, not local.
Okay.
ATM machine,as was common at the time,
Allen would find himselfinvolved in the local labor
movements,
which in Glasgow were knownas the Chartist movement.

(05:51):
As you can imagine, governments
and the ruling class weren't
super fond of labor movements
that triedto give power to the people.
And so while most Chartistevents were peaceful, they would
sometimes turn into battleswith the police.
In 1842,this would come to a head
as a petition with 3 millionsignatures for universal
manhood suffrage was declinedto be discussed in parliament.

(06:11):
Suffrage and sufferingtwo different things.
Yeah, but universal manhood.
All men shall vote.
Okay. Yeah, okay.
But not the women yet.
No, no. Well, this is the 1840s.
Frustrated, the
Chartists would strike and riotthroughout the whole UK.
Strange irons doing anotherstory where women are excluded.

(06:33):
Oh no.
I mean.
I'm voting. I'm voting,you know. What is it?
You know what? You know what?You can wait till later.
You can wait till later.Oh, he's going to try.
Yeah. Now he'strying to do his own foreboding.
Well, a menzies script. Yeah.
Yeah.
Let me just type quickly.
No. Fuck you.
So they've got 3 million.
Their children listening. Great.

(06:54):
They need to know your dog.
It's just my children.
John's children
direct call out to you.
No. You. That's great.
Be nice to him.
Alan would be part of the alsoclean up off T cells.
You're welcome.
Alan would be partof this movement.
They're not listening to me.They're not listening to you.

(07:18):
It's a race, actually.
Clean off as quick as you can.
Alan would be partof this movement,
fighting for his rights.
Just to do it. So I'm into it.
Don't don't do it.
Don't don't don't bring outmy least favorite damn song.
You gotta fight.
For your right to suffrage.

(07:39):
So is.
This, like,a precursor to the CFMEU?
Oh, no, I don't. Oh, jeez.
Oh, no. Oh, God. We gotta go.
We don't.
Queensland Government'sgoing to disband us.
We know we can't talk aboutDarren.
That's. That's my union.
Oh, you remember that union?
There you go. Doesn't matter.That union is everybody's.

(07:59):
Even I can join that union.
Yeah, I've built something once.
I could do it. Yeah,I work with my hands.
Theoretically,I can join that in.
So I'm gonna try to puta sticker on my barber shop.
Marijuana. I was like,nah, man, get out of here.
Out of here. Yeah.
You don't want that smoke. No.
Yeah.
So Alan was involved,
in the Chartistfights, fighting for his rights,

(08:19):
and would end up involvedin a scuffle with the police.
A royal warrant would be put outfor his arrest.
And with little options otherthan to be arrested or leave.
He chose to. Leave.
At least that's the mosthonorable version of the story.
Others have contendedthat he had turned informant
for the state,
ratting out his Chartist mates
and being discoveredas a snitch.

(08:41):
And as we all
know, snitches get stitchesunless they leave for the US.
And so he fled Scotland
in an attempt to save his lifefrom the Chartists themselves.
Historians to this day debatewhich story is true.
But considering his futureendeavors.
I can kind of understandhow it got a bit confusing.
We're gonna, cover some stuff,

(09:01):
so keep the confusionaround his early life in mind.
And now we're on a boat.
We're on a. Boat.
Thank you. Alan.
More boat cast.
Well, boats we jump.
Boats are involved in transport,and that's about it
in this story. No planes yet.
No planes.
This podcast, love boats.

(09:23):
This podcast.
Love boats is the first to go.
They said it.
Could be or it might bea declaration that 2026.
Absolutelyno boat. Check. Is that.
Is that our first shirtthis podcast love boats.
Yeah for. Sure.
Didn't get made
because no one decidedto do the bloody time stamp.
Because no one decidedto make the shirt.
I was Ro Reese,our listener from the UK.

(09:45):
Said that he tries to sound.Like we only have one.
I'm sure we got.
Our listener from the UK.
Our original listenerfrom the UK. Race.
He was listening,and he was able to call it out
at the wrong timeso sadly did not get the shirt.
Sean's New Year's
shirt off coming againthis year?
Okay, listen, on New Year's Day.

(10:07):
It's only about a month away.
A month. Exactly.
Yeah.
Alan and Joan would decideto strike out for a new life
in America, sailinginitially towards o Canada.
Alan would work as a coupaon board to pay their way.
And while this was a decent wayto make a living,

(10:28):
it became a lot harderwhen the boat ran
aground on Sable Islandand was stuck in ice,
forced to leave everythingbehind and row to safety.
They would eventually findanother schooner
to take them to Montreal,where he would work for a week
as a Cooper to make some moneybefore heading to Detroit.
Then, Tom.With the Detroit thing?

(10:48):
No, I'm surethat it's been mentioned.
Yeah, it has.
And you know what?I hope I enjoy it.
Yeah, exactly.
And we got some feedbackon that episode
that said,the Detroit thing did not land.
We got one guy whocomplains about everything.
Well, that's 50% of listeners.
That's better.
That'sthat's 100% of our friends
and 50% of the listeners.That's helpful.

(11:10):
So they would go to Detroit,and then to Chicago, Chicago,
and then eventuallythe town of Dundee,
a Scottish enclave in Illinois.
The Pinkertons would settle downin a nice house on the river,
and Allan
would set upa cooperage business
to supply the townwith its barrels.
Within months, he would bemanaging 20 employees

(11:30):
and running a very successfulbusiness. Noice.
He would be doing betterthan he had ever done back home,
but fate would have somethingelse in store for young Allan.
One day he would set outin a skiff down the river
to look for a particularkind of tree.
He needed to make the barrels,
scanning the riverbank for treesthat would be just right
while floating along the river.

(11:51):
He would spot a small islandin the middle
with a small encampment set up,but deserted.
It seemed a strange spotto camp,
with littlein the way of wildlife to hunt,
and so he would stop in to takea look at what was going on.
He would find the firesmoldering,
which meant the peoplehad been there quite recently.
But more interestingly,
he would find bits of scrapmetal

(12:12):
and the remnants of moldsthat look particularly
like they were usedto counterfeit coins,
considering the businessinterests in the region.
It would be disastrous to him
to have counterfeitersflooding the market with coins,
so he would endeavorto come back later
to try andcatch the people in the act.
When hereturned a day or two later,
he would quietly land on the
island and follow his the nowbillowing smoke to its source,

(12:35):
the same camphe had seen earlier,
but this time ablaze,
and being used to melt metalsdown into coin molds,
into coins, into
to melt metal down, to pour
into coin molds, to make coins.
He had, as he had suspectedearlier.
Picked yourself molding a coin.
So, so farthis fell was just a no.

(12:58):
Good morning, citizen.
Just a bit nosy. Hey.
You. You're right.
This is what, 1850?
Yeah.
What else are you doing? Yeah.
I mean, true. Yeah.What else are you doing?
Making barrelsand float in the river.
Yeah, yeah, he's just.
I just like looking afterthe economy.
He's just a well-meaningcitizen at the moment.

(13:18):
Yeah. So.
They wereclearly counterfeiters.
And Alan would now have seeneverything he needed to.
He would slink back to his skiffand make way to the sheriff
to tell him everythinghe had seen while.
Doing like that.
Yeah.
It's a fun word to say, slink,
that the counterfeiterswould be arrested
and the bankers of the areawould be thankful
to Pinkerton for his workuncovering them. Good job.

(13:41):
Not long after this,Pinkerton would get a tip off
about a farmerin the Vermont area
who was launderingforged bank notes.
Obviously, Pinkerton would alertthe authorities again
and would catch the farmerin the act
with the notes, againimpressing the sheriff.
So he, like,
made his acquaintancewith this guy
and like, made a deal to like,
hey, I want to get some ofthese, you know, fake notes

(14:01):
because that would be helpfulfor me.
And like, hey,sheriff of organize
to meet this guywho's laundering bank notes.
He undercover.Yeah. Yeah. Detective.
So the, the sheriff that he had,
assisted in catching this guyturned out to be the sheriff
of cook County,which is encompasses Chicago.

(14:23):
And the sheriffwould be so impressed
by Pinkerton'sdetective abilities that
he would offer him as a roleas a deputy in the big city.
Despite Jones protests, Allenwould be drawn to the adventure
and challenge,
and would accept the positionand move the family to Chicago.
Probably Chicago was. Gross.
Oh, really? Yeah.
Because it was like a properbig city.
They hadn't, like, had timeto do like sewerage and stuff.

(14:47):
So it was just.They used the river.
Yeah, they,they kind of pre river.
Well they had this canal thing.It's really interesting.
They had done thislike canal canal network.
Chicago was part of itto connect like the East coast
through to the rest of itbecause they needed to connect
the GreatLakes to the Mississippi.
It connected a bunch of riverstogether to eventually mate,

(15:09):
because obviously it's on likeit's in Illinois.
It's on Lake Michigan.
So theyneed to take it like great,
like Michigan connectswith everything else,
like the big rivers
that goacross the top of the country
all the way outto the Atlantic Ocean.
So they did this big canaland like, that was part of it.
There's like this bigwhich I don't know.
It's really interesting.
Shout out
Daniel Steiner on YouTubefor his great video

(15:31):
on the history of Chicagoand the map.
And you should watch it.It's really good.
And you'll learn all about it.
I really thought someonewas about to say shout.
Out to the link to this.
The canals.
You shout outthose Chicago canals
we couldn't do without you.
So Allen would take, to.
He's my love of Chicagoagainst me.
I'll take Allen the Bean.

(15:52):
I'm called Sky guide.
No it's. Not.
It's called Sky. Care.
It's the bean. Called Sky guide.
Okay.
Allen would take the, take tothe role like a fish to water,
in the canal,and would eventually be named
as the first detectivein Chicago in 1849.
He would grow in fame and skill,gaining the trust
of the bankers, railroads,and couriers of the country.

(16:15):
Eventually,sorry over the county.
Eventually,he would meet a Chicago
attorney attorney by the nameof Edward Rucker in 1850,
and the two would turn their eye
towards something new for Americ
They would
initially name itthe Northwestern Police Agency
and would focus on investigating
crimesand recovering stolen property.

(16:38):
The logo would bethe famous wide open eye
and the tagline we never sleep.
Not long after this,they would decide to capitalize
on Pinkerton's fameand rename the agency
to the now famousPinkerton Detective Agency.
So the I logo,
it's like one a wide open eye.

(16:58):
That's where they believethe term private eye comes from.
He's like, hire a private eye
to investigate somethingor take something.
Yeah.
It is like a pretty distinctold timey logo.
It's like all these big words,and then an eye in the middle,
and then extra words and, like,lines and stuff everywhere.
It's very extra.

(17:19):
But also a very iconic person.
Speaking of, like, guys,
Are not getting into that again.
We had about a 20 minutediscussion before
starting recording here.
The agency gets its foothold.
In the early days,the agency would focus on crimes
that the police weren'tcapable of handling.

(17:39):
All of them.
And most, with a focus on crimesacross lines of jurisdiction.
While crimes of counterfeitingtrain and carriage robbery
would be national issues.
There was no federal policeagency, and police weren't able
to work outside
the county lines that theythat they had jurisdiction over.
A private agency,though, could do

(18:00):
whatever the hell they liked.
And this was the ground
that the Pinkerton
Detective Agencywould build its foundations on.
So they were able to come inand be like,
oh, I can just go anywhere and
I can keep investigating.
Like, there's no problem with me
having any abilityto to do anything here.
Another of the aspectsof Pinkerton's agency,

(18:22):
as agency's superiority overregular police,
was the training and paythat their agents received
in these early daysof local police forces.
Police were often poorly trainedand even more poorly paid,
making them ineffectiveand easily corruptible.
Pinkerton's force would be paidfor directly by their clients,
which meant they could spend
the time and moneyto train them correctly,

(18:44):
pay themwell enough to make them,
much less susceptible to bribes,and give them the resources
to cross county linesand do their damn job.
So again,
plenty of moneyfrom the private sector
means that they're able to do
just aboutanything they need to do.
These earlyadvantages gave the agency a.
Huge.
Headstart, and within years

(19:04):
they would be operating acrossa number of different states,
working with large businesses,
particularlythe Illinois Central Railroad.
This would end upbeing the most important clients
Pinkerton would ever
land, as the company
had a young lawyermanaging their legal work.
That young whippersnapperwould be Abraham Lincoln.
You might have heard of him.
Remind me again. Yeah.

(19:25):
Big tall hat, big tall bloke.
Okay.
There's no joke there.
Have you ever seen photos of,
like, actual photos of AbrahamLincoln?
He's huge.
Like.
I didn't realize how tall he was
comparedeveryone else in his time.
He's like a headtaller than most people.

(19:46):
And then he puts a big,stupid hat on. It's like.
If you.
Exaggerate your features,you've been given.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So they had Lincoln and Lincoln,
would obviously turn outto be a bit of a big deal,
but at this timehe was just a lawyer
who would eventually, recommendthat the railroad use
the Pinkerton Detective Agencyfor their investigations

(20:07):
into fraudand theft by their staff.
So the Lincoln Lawyer. Yes.
Are you saying thatbecause of the show?
Yeah.
Is it any good?
I don't know. Yeah,I don't know either.
Every out of sane for itI'm like.
This looks very.
Is that. Normal.
Matthew McConaughey is he.
No I don't know.
All these Christmas moviesat the moment.

(20:29):
I'm watching. Scrubs.
I can't do the, I'm.
I'm excitedfor that to come back now.
You can watch the originals.
I have.
You actually told methe other week
you have not seen it. Yeah.He scrubs. Yeah.
Of course.I've watched scrubs, scrubs.
I haven't watched it in a while.
I swear you said.
I know I haven't seen one of themost influential TV shows of.

(20:51):
I'm sure you said a Seinfeld.
I also watch Seinfeld.
I'm. I'm watching.
It's likeI don't worry about it.
It's too late now.
I swear, you said the other weekthat you had.
No, I've absolutely watched it.
Yeah, I didn't watch itduring its original run.
It was a personality typewhen it was originally on TV.
Yeah. There was peoplethat said, I watch scrubs.

(21:12):
No big deal.
Like the of intellectual ego.
Do you know how oftenI heard that?
Who's your favorite character?
Oh, that's a tough one.
Cox I love Doctor Cox.
Yeah, I love that Cox.
I like light stage. Bob.
Like what?
At the
towards the end, when, like,

(21:34):
he's retired.
And Doctor Cox is, like,starting to relate with him.
And you can understandwhy Kelso was the way he was.
For those two timesand doesn't give a crap.
Bob just.
Yeah.
But Bob Carr,
so nice to meet you. Yeah,
but also it's then distractedby all this muffin antics,
but the end removes all of theweight of that character.

(21:55):
It's just him constantlyin muffins in the cafeteria.
It's not the cafe. It wasn't.
Yeah, I just likewhen I don't always love it.
I don't always like.
Sean has,
survived his coughing attack,and, I'm on.
I'm on the edge.
Yeah.
I'm a. Doggy on the edge.

(22:15):
Of glory.
We would.We would massively distract.
Yeah. We. Yeah.Let's get back to the episode.
We went off rails.
Oh, speaking of rails.
Speaking of railway, speaking ofthe Illinois Railway.
Illinois Central Railroad,
so they were looking into
theft and fraud by the,by the staff of the railroad.
And having already solveda number of high profile
train robbery cases,

(22:36):
Pinkerton Agency was well placed
to investigate staffof railroads
for offering free ticketsto friends,
scamming customersout of tickets
they'd already paid for,and other small scams.
The railroad would hirethe Pinkertons to place
agents on the trains,rooting out conductors.
Doing the dodgy
multiple,successes in this effort
led to an increased reputationfor the agency,

(22:57):
and would also cement
the connection between AllanPinkerton and Abraham Lincoln.
The two would bond over theirabolitionist ideals, eventually
using the agency to work
with the Underground Railroadto help escape.
Slaves make their way to Canada.
So we're now seeing, like,
Pinkertons got thisbig business, and he's using it
to help with this effortto free to help free slaves.

(23:21):
Yeah. Like, yeah.
With the Underground Railroad.
Railroad. Yeah, yeah.
While Pinkerton would workon the coal face
of the abolitionist movement,
helping to fund and mobilizethose fighting the good fight,
Lincoln would work his wayup the ranks of politics,
making a name for himselfand eventually
finding himself on the ticketfor the presidency.
That's where I know him from.

(23:42):
Winning a bill.
Winning in 1860.
But the two men would findtheir way back together
professionally when the tensions
between the South and the Northwould start to develop
into the beginningsof the Civil War.
After Lincoln's win.
You weren't trying to referencelike,
the Liberty Billor anything like.
You might remember.

(24:02):
The Civil Warwas great for business.
And it
Civil War was great.
Yeah.
So I mean, it was for the USin the end.
Depends on which side you're on.
The side of.
Freed slaves were sort of, you.
Know, there's two namesfor the Civil War.
There's the Civil Warand the war

(24:22):
of northern oppression,depending on who you ask.
Well,I didn't know about them. Yeah.
I didn't knowabout the name of the.
War of the depression.
Sean,how do you know about the name
of the northern oppressionrating?
A lot of really teenagefiction books
that are set in the Southwhen I was younger.
Do you have a certain.
And by younger,I mean like last year, I, yeah.
Red and blue flagwith stars on it.
Yeah, I'm one of those.

(24:43):
I'm not a confederate,but I'm aware that they call.
That what they called.
I did, you know,that were called that boys.
Are that were golden.
Oh, yeah.
You don't knowwhat the Confederate flag is.
You've never seen the Dukesof Hazzard.
Yeah. Okay. Okay, here's a.
Confederate flag in the jigsawhas shown it's the.
General Lee.
Who's named after a Confederate.
The general Lee. Yes.
You you. Know a lot about.

(25:03):
All right,all right, we need to get into
who's a Confederate sympathizerand who's not so much.
Said anything about Confederatesympathizers.
If anyone hasn't seen the Dukes
of Hazzard moviewith Sean William Scott
and Johnny Knoxvilleand hasn't appreciated
Jessica bleep bleep Simpsonin that damn movie,
then you're dead to me.
So we actually have aan experiment.
Sean Forsyth that is fairlysure it's a Confederate.

(25:27):
Veterans Plaza.
Or just a Confederate.
All right.
So now itwe stop disparaging each other
as thingsstarted to really heat up
and state started to secede,Lincoln decided. Say.
But were oppressed by the North.
Diverse state strikefirst light might first.
Thank you, thank you.

(25:49):
Lincolndecided to do the obvious thing
to calm tensions.Was run for presidency.
That was get shot.
No, people were pissybecause he'd won the election.
Oh that's it. My goodness,I said. So.
He did the obvious thingto calm the tensions
and go on a multi-day,multi-city celebrity,
celebratory tour
from Illinois to Washingtonwith stops in New York,
Philadelphia and Maryland.

(26:10):
They basically just went onlike a victory lap of the North.
Yeah, he's like,everyone's real pissy.
About me winning.
And what if I celebrate.
By going to all the unionstates? No.
Oh yes, yes, yes.
As you might expect,the Pinkerton Agency would hear
whispers of threatsto assassinate Lincoln across
multiple states,but the most credible

(26:31):
being from the pro-slaverystate of Maryland.
Baltimore,
the largest city in Maryland,was the most obvious threat,
as Lincoln
would need to swap trains thereacross two different stations.
Allan Pinkerton would decideto take on the task himself,
putting together a crack teamto investigate personally.
The team he put togetherwould showcase
another of Pinkerton'sadvantages his ability to hire

(26:53):
those that others wouldn'tdream of hiring.
He would choose one of his youngagents, Kate Warne,
who would be the first femaledetective in the US
she'd been hireda couple of years earlier
after arguing that, despite herlack of experience,
she would be able to blend into
crowdseasier, go places men couldn't
and work in circlesthat no male agent ever could.

(27:15):
Pinkerton was so impressedby her
displaythat he hired her on the spot,
and she
had proven herself incrediblywell on her early assignments.
And I guess the other thingin her advantages
people wouldn't be lookingat her as an agent in this time.
No. And Pinkertondid this quite a lot.
He hired quite a lot of women,which was really unheard of
at the time,especially in law enforcement.

(27:37):
This guy's way better thanI portray him in. Where did.
Oh, yes.
Keep that in. Mind. You are.
I imaginethere's going to be a turn.
Yeah. Okay.
And then by the timeRed didn't happen,
he would have been nearly dead.Oh, yeah.
What was dead to me was like.
1890. 1890s. Yeah,I didn't read.

(27:58):
That one is like 1906or something.
That's a good question.
I can definitely saythat Red dead
two is the late 1800sinto the 1890s.
I can't rememberI. Remember the first one.
They've gotlike one of the first
vehicle like carscoming off the ship. Yes.
It was.
Yeah.

(28:19):
So for this job,
Kate would reform hera northern identity
into a southern belleto to sort of disguise herself.
With the best southern belleacross the nation.
Oh, my stars, oh, my pearls.
She did the accent all.
And a secessionistpin on her blouse.
Allen would disguise himselfwith her

(28:39):
as a northern stockbroker,as her southern stockbroker.
They would spendthe next few weeks
working their wayinto the local community,
gaining the trust of the localanti unionist
and pro-slavery workers,and when the president's rout
was announced to the publicfor his tour,
they would perfectly plate.
They were perfectly placed
to know the full extentof any assassination plot.
They would uncover thatthe plot involved,

(29:01):
causing a riotnear a tunnel outside Baltimore,
which would draw away the localpolice force from Lincoln.
And then while the tunnel,then while in the tunnel,
they would murk him in the head,leaving him sadly dead.
As we know, Lincoln's worstevening was yet to come,
as Pinkertonand Vaughn would work tirelessly
to ensure his safety,

(29:22):
getting him to agreeto change up his route slightly
to avoid the tunnel,and getting him dressed
as a sick old manbeing cared for.
Thank you very.
I know that I did thatand I appreciate that
he would take off his stovepipehat and replace it
with a flat felt one, wear
a blanket around his shouldersand hunch over.
They wouldthen telegraph lies on the route

(29:42):
so that the assassins couldn'tcommunicate, and rushed him
through the streetsin his disguise,
making it safely to the nexttrain.
Waitingand onward out of Baltimore.
So this success cementedPinkerton's, importance
to the presidentand would eventually,
lead to a lot more workin the Civil War.
It's just like,
would lead into what,Secret Service type of thing.

(30:03):
It would also show the needfor security service
dedicated to the president,which would save the states
for the eventual Secretservice later in history.
Yes, they really could havecome up
with a slightly less like tenyear old name for the agency's.
Secrecy with so secret coup.
Like,like all the other government
organizationsthat look after monarchs
and leadersall have incredibly complicated

(30:25):
government names,like you look at any of the
like European ones.
Then there's the Secret Service.
That's the European room.
All those like private forcesor not, private forces.
I can't pronounce most of them,but whenever you see
the translation of it, it's
usually like some very officialwhite government sounding name.
What's the name of the defenseforce for the Pope?
The Swiss god? Yeah.

(30:46):
Because they were actually Swisssoldiers originally. Yes.
Yeah. Okay.
It's they're not.
The defense falls for the Pope,
the defense forceof Vatican City whatever. Okay.
And what does Vatican City existfor to has the Pope.
Here we go.
Oh it's actually to do all the,
you know, administrative workof the Catholic Church and to,

(31:07):
be the center of the CatholicChurch in the modern world.
Thank you.
It's for. The pope.
If the pope had beensomewhere else,
that's where it would have been.

(31:31):
Regarding the workin the Civil War,
the big into name would becomesynonymous as a go to private
police force.
During this time,
Lincoln and ended by his friendsperformance during his
celebratory tour, would usePinkerton for all sorts of work
that would protect railroadsand other key infrastructure,
be tasked with delivering keymessages, and complete daring

(31:52):
spying missions behindenemy lines, among other work.
Pinkerton's son Robert
would also jointhe family business
during this time, completing,
some of the spy workthat they were tasked
with in his teenage years.
Pinkerton's other son, William,
would also jointhe business later on,
being gifted in gaining people'strust and pulling information
from them.

(32:12):
So do you have any idea
how many people were in hisemploy at this point in time?
Hundreds. Yeah. Tens?Yeah. Sounds quite a lot.
Sounds like business is booming.
Yeah. So later on,
there's like events
where they have hundredsof agents involved in one thing.
So they are very big.
They got a lot of moneyflowing through them. Yeah.

(32:33):
That's crazy.
I got a lot of work. Yeah.
Because you got to remember,at this time there was no, like,
proper police force.
And even within. Federal police.
There was no FBI,there was no. CIA.
There's no investigative.
There's no investigativecompanies.
Yeah.
Localpolice forces are generally
like a couple of guysfor a city.

(32:53):
You know, like a sheriffand a deputy. Yeah.
So like when.
They get to the city limitsand go, I can't go any further.
Yeah. Like, they don'treally have much they can do.
So having these big,private companies
was just necessaryfor these big businesses.
And were thereany other competitors?
Was it just he kind of corneredthe market eventually?
There were a few.But at this moment, it was just.

(33:15):
Yeah, I think therewere some I don't go into it.
I thinkMcKinney was another one.
They also are around.
But like, they don't reallycome up in any of the stories.
No clash between the,like the Scottish and the Irish
detective agencies. No.

(33:35):
As the war endedand America rebuilt,
the Pinkertons would be usedfor work across the nation.
Their abilityto roll out dozens,
if not hundreds of agentsto any job
gave them a leg up on otheragencies and police forces.
Pinkerton would havesome strict rules around
how they worked, though,with a strict, policy
of avoiding mechanical devicesto gather Intel

(33:55):
while phones were installedin Pinkerton offices offices.
Allen himself believed they were
the invention of the deviland refused to use them.
He was actually friendswith, with.
The devil.
Alexander Graham. Bell.
Yeah, but he was still like,yeah, I'm not using these.
Yeah, right.
Allen himself believed.
The continuationof the defendant.

(34:16):
Tangled technologieslike bloody devil devices.
He would forbid his agentsfrom using wire tapping,
preferring themto use paper trails
and witness statementsto uncover the story.
He would also refuseto accept divorce related work,
believing that,
despite women being more likelyto engage them for the work,
they were the real victimsof divorce
in a society that didn'tvalue them as their husbands.

(34:37):
Despite despitewhat the husbands may have done.
Very forward thinking.
This like in essence,really like really ahead of you.
All that you would bringthat up.
Shut up. Shut up. Good one.
I'm so tired of this misogyniststory.
Just go back to the South. Sure.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The South rose again.

(34:59):
It's kind of like a jokeon anything I say in the sand.
Just, just awful things to say.
Nothing. Yeah.
As they grew in fame and,in their fame with big business
questions, questionsstarted to be raised
about whether their workwas always for the best.
As they answered
paying clients, they would dowhatever was needed, sometimes
straying outside the law to meetthe client's wishes.

(35:22):
At times,
their work would move moretowards policing people
and enforcingthe client's wishes, and away
from protecting property
and investigatingthieves and agitators.
As this movement continued,they would eventually move
into the wild world of outlawhunting in the wild, wild West.
Ooh, here we go, here we go.
This is theRed Dead Redemption stuff.
No, no.

(35:43):
Well, that'swhat they were in the game.
They were hunting.They had no game.
They were in the game.Yeah, yeah.
I thought they were antiunionist in the game. No.
But the, the protagonistsof the.
The Pinkertons.
No. That were the, they.
Were just the detectives.
Hunting the outlaw gang.
Yeah. No the dog played it.
Dutchess gang. Yeah.

(36:03):
Dutchess gang, the Vandal and.Then Dutch Vandal and thank you.
I couldn'tthink of his last name.
As, I'msure you know, the railroad
expansionafter the Civil War brought more
and more peopleinto the Wild West,
which meant more trainsstarted to carry goods
and more enticingly, money.
And gold.
Thoughthe more, through the more
remote parts of the country.
And this attracteda new style of outlaw, one

(36:25):
that would travel in a gangand commit high stakes
robberies against the railroadsand banks of the West.
And Dutch Vandal
These outlaws, despite theircrimes, would be cult heroes
even in their own timeas they attacked
unpopular and rich companies.
So the men that hunted them
weren't always perceivedas the good guys.
It was into this worldthat the Pinkertons
would start to step in the later1800s,

(36:47):
one of the most famous gangs ofthe 1870s was the James Gang,
the most famousof which was Jesse James.
They've been terrorizingthe West for years, going after
banks, trains, and stagecoachesfor their goods and gold.
What was the other gang in red?
That was an Irish gang.
One that I don't.
I think I remember.

(37:08):
I think it's Driscoll. Driscoll.
Thank you. Ma'am.
They were quite happyto be known for it as well.
The James's posing for portraitsin photography
studios, as well
as not being particularly subtlein their attacks.
The Pinkertons would findthese photos
and collect them, building outa collection of mug shots.
It was actuallyquite revolutionary at the time

(37:29):
and would become usedas a building block
of investigativework in the future.
So thegang themselves were getting
professional likephotographers of themselves.
Not that uncommon.
Yeah,the Wild Bunch did as well.
They just like, sit down for.
Photos and then obviously thedetectives are governed. Guy.
Well, this is the peoplewe're looking for.
But more they'd goto photography studios in towns.

(37:50):
I'd be like.
That's them.
So that so nothing's reallychanged from the youth of today
recording themselvesdoing illegal it.
Here's the thing, right.
Every trend that comes out fromtechnology is a trend
that already existed.It's just easier.
Now a photographer takes a photo
on wet platechemical photography of

(38:11):
of a member of a gang,and then someone copies
it on paper dozensand dozens of times.
Same thing. It's TikTok.
The one that I always think of,
right, is people are always like
everybody's on their phonesall the times.
Ridiculous.Nobody interacts anymore.
And then they show photos of,like,
all your trainsin the newspaper.
Everybody's got a newspaper.Yeah. It's like, yeah, shut up.

(38:34):
It's just different now. Yeah.
Everything'sthe same as it always has been.
Life is a never ending circlearound circle.
Flat circle. Thank you.
So the James Gang werenotoriously hard to track down.
But if.
You just need to goto the old photography.
Maybe it'seven better than that.
Notoriously hard to track down.
But eventually the Pinkertonstrack them down to their family.
Farm in January of 1875.

(38:58):
Like we've been tracking.
Them for months,and they just checked this.
And checkthe census. Well, yeah.
Well, what is the census data.
Thing that.
Doesn't just just sum upthe policing at this.
Time.
This was hanging hereat their address. Yeah.
They're just hanging out at home
and it took them monthsto track them down.
So Jamesfamily had been getting support

(39:19):
from formerConfederate soldiers.
And so John.
Sorry.
Yeah.
Sean's mates so had beena hard gang to track down.
Eventually Alan who had takentracking them personally.
We gang up on him.
This is how this works.
So Alan, who had taken itpersonally, worked with former
Union soldiers in the areato track them to the home
and wanted to capture themso badly.

(39:41):
He had sent letters to others
sayinghe wanted to burn home down.
On the night of the 25th,Pinkerton forces forces
would surround the house,and an agent
would hock an incendiary device
into the houseto try and draw a gang outside.
It would explode,
setting the house
a lot and scattering the Jamesgang into the night.
They had managed to escape inthe chaos that had been caused.

(40:02):
Unfortunately, though,
Jesse James younger brotherArchie had been killed
and his mother Zarrella had hadone of her armed blown off.
Oh yeah.
So despite all this damage,the gang
escaped unscathed themselves.
But the Pinkertonsreputation had not,
at the public found the deathand destruction unnecessary,
especially against the popularJames family.

(40:22):
They had inadvertently helped tobolster the Jesse James legend
and would failed ever catch him,despite years of tracking
and chasing,
leading others to endJesse James crime spree spree.
So they literallysurrounded the house
and still let him get away.Yeah, right.
The Pinkerton Agency would goafter other notorious outlaws
as well, including the Reno Gangand the Wild Bunch

(40:45):
that included Butch Cassidyand the Sundance Kid.
Agents would spend years chasingand tracking down outlaws
throughout the frontier, againusing their mug shots
to pull information from locals.
This would feed the reputationof the Pinkertons
of the Pinkertons as tough,resourceful, and relentless,
while also feedingthe eventual obsession
with outlaws and the West.

(41:05):
So a lot of the time when you
hear of, like, peoplehunting down
these, like, outlaw typefigures, it's Pinkerton agents.
Yeah,
they were just doing iteverywhere
because all the companiesthat they worked
with, the railroads,the banks, the.
There was this coach guywith the targets.
That's whothey were going after. Yeah.
So yeah, the reputationstarts to crumble.

(41:28):
The Pinkerton namemay have been associated
with outlaws for a while,but don't forget that
the Pinkertons were hiredmuscle.
They were
paid for by corporations lookingto protect their interests.
As the companymoved into the 1880s,
they were starting to be known
for being more of a hired armythan a police force
using explosives and gunfireto draw their prey from
their hiding holes.

(41:49):
And as they startedto take on more and more union
busting work,the public started to develop
a deep mistrust of the PinkertonDetective Agency PMF.
Some.
Private military force.
You might ask yourself why Allan
Pinkerton would allow his agency
to side with the corporationsconsidering his own history, but

(42:11):
it was his belief that unionismand strikes caused violence.
And, he was against violencein this area the 1880s.
And what do you say?He was born.
18, 19.
Okay. So he's 60.
Yeah. Yeah.
He was quoted as sayingthat the eradication
of violence and coercionfrom the labor
movement would make labormore respectable,

(42:32):
which would in turn
result in business owners beingmore likely to pay more money.
I'm going to call B.S.
on that one,because no corporation
has ever donethat in the history of time.
To answer why Pinkerton mayhave had this change of heart,
historiansbelieve that he had suffered
a stroke in the early 1880s,
which may have startedto affect his judgment.

(42:52):
While he had stepped backfrom front line leadership
at this time,
he was still a public figurewho spoke for the company.
So his change in personalitywas noticed by the public.
Sadly though, that would all endin July of 1884
when Allan would trip overwhile walking his dog,
badly biting his tonguein the process,
and he would get gangrenefrom the wound
and later die from that wound,

(43:13):
leaving behind his two sonsin control of the business.
So these people.
Died way more interesting backthen.
He. Tripped overwalking his dog.
What a. Soft way to die.
Like a little.
Soundslike it's under your feet and.
000, baby thing.
Oh, he did itfor the next couple of days.
He thought about this,and then you did.
Oh, man, I wish I

(43:34):
wish I had antibiotics.
That's okay. Yeah.
Yeah. So it was.
It was all over and dies.
Like, that's just crazy shrimp.
But did. Years of.
Hunting outlaws.
Hunting out what was it like?
Not the safest of work? No.
You just tripped over your dogright?
Yep. With with his sonsin charge, they would take on

(43:58):
more and more union busting workfrom their business clients.
They would start to infiltrateunions, spying
on strike organizersand reporting back.
They would also take partin breaking picket
lines to break the strikes.
One particularly boldexample came in Pennsylvania
on the 6th of July, 1892,when the Pinkertons were hired
by Carnegie Steelto break a strike run

(44:20):
by the Amalgamated Associationof Iron and Steel Workers.
The workers had refused to worklonger hours for less pay,
and so the owner of the CarnegieSteel plant
had locked the workersout of the plant
and refusedto allow them to work.
He planned to hire nonunionworkers to reopen the plant,
and had fortified the buildingwith high walls and watchtowers.

(44:40):
The striking workershad blockaded the building
to stop them from entering.
Stopped them from allowingthe new workers in.
And so the plant ownershad hired
the Pinkertonsto break through the lines
and provide protectionfor the new workers.
They planned to bring in.
Also industrial action back inand in way more interesting.
Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

(45:00):
I'm assumingindustrial action time
didn't exist back theneither. Or.
No. No.
It is crazy to think thatlike a lot of the protections
that we have now are literally
because people went to warfor them.
Yeah.
Like in and in this senseto not like what
the war you think oflike overseas
following on the countries likeworkers fighting companies or.

(45:23):
Companies hiring police forcesto attack their own work.
Coming to blows.
Yeah. Crazy. Yeah.
So on the 6th of July,
300 Pinkertonagents would load onto barges
that would be floated upthe river.
300? Yeah, a lot of themwould just hide on the day.
Oh, okay. Yeah.
So they had, like,hide in the days before,

(45:44):
and they didn't really knowwhat they were doing. Yeah.
So they were,
they were going to be floated upthe river on these barges
with the strikers tipped offby the watchmen along the way.
All 300 would haveWinchester rifles and plan to do
whatever it took to landat the plant and gain entry.
It was roughly 4 a.m.
when the Pinkertonscame into view of the strikers,

(46:04):
and a warning
was yelled to them to back off
or face the forceof the strikers.
It's not really clearwho shot first.
There's a bit of like
as they were coming upthe river,
there were some boats that camedown, took potshots at them.
They came up to the banks,
they were all yellingat each other,
and then allof a sudden people shooting,
Someone dropped their rifle.

(46:24):
It went off, which is.
Oh. Oh, no.
So the thing into the shootingof the strikers
strikeas a shooting back in the first
ten minutes of shooting,there were two strikers killed
and two begin to Pinkertonskilled.
Yeah. So like what?
We're just talking about peoplewho are on strike.
They're firing guns.
Yeah, and

(46:44):
you mentionedgoing on strike today
and from Parliament,and you've got.
Not even Parliament,just your boss.
Well, yeah. Well, today.
Yeah, usually the.
Industrialor all the industrial action
I've ever been involved inbecause I was working for
the government,was a march on power.
Yeah.
So I couldn't imagine
strolling downthe main street of Brisbane.
Yeah.

(47:04):
With a lever actionrifle slung over my shoulder.
That's correct.
Right.
So the strikers would callfor reinforcements from the,
from the townspeoplewho would arrive around 6 a.m.
with strikersand townspeople taking shots
at the Pinkerton badgesfrom the, from the riverbanks,
that were hidden behindlike piles of scrap
and like wooden pilings.

(47:26):
That haven't landed yet.They're still on barges.
So they got the barges, like,almost to the building,
and they couldn't get in. Yeah.
So they wouldn'tlet them off the barges.
So they're still on these bargesgetting pot shot at.
Yeah.
At one point,a cannon was brought in
to try and shoot the bargesto try and sink them.
Just remember, listeners,this is a work dispute.

(47:47):
Yeah, yeah, this.
Is this is not a fight over land
or ideology or slaveryor this is a.
Yeah, companiesdispute with their employer.
Trying to pay their workersless.
Yeah.And there's a cannon. Yeah.
So after four more strikersand two more Pinkertons

(48:08):
were killed,with more townspeople descending
and the strikers making attemptsto burn the barges,
the Pinkertonswere, decided to surrender.
They endedup locked up in the town jail.
And there was a very failedheist against the Pinkertons.
So the townspeopleactually arrested them?
What was the sheriff doing thathe never looked

(48:30):
at local police for?
I suspect, suspectsthe sheriff had given up.
Trying to win in.
Yeah, I'm not getting involved.
Well, like the local,the local government were like.
Like the townspeoplewere part of this.
They were on the sideof the workers.
How many how many workers
or had strikers where they do,you know, like their full size?
I don't know the exact numberthat were there,

(48:51):
but I know that they were justbringing people in.
It was like hundredsand hundreds of people.
Like you said,you got 300 Pinkerton.
You've got, say,another 300 strikers.
It's hundreds and hundredsof people shooting at a dollar.
Yeah.
And then like, you walk away,you just
generally there's a sheriffand maybe what, 4 or 5 deputies.
Yeah. Six people.
Yeah.They don't get involved. Yeah.
So the fallout from this,

(49:13):
after the attack on the mill,Pennsylvania governor
had to call in the statemilitia to restore order.
And they had to do thatby breaking the strike
and bringing in the nonunion,nonunion workers.
So the strike was broken,as was the union.
And the workers eventuallyhad to accept the conditions.
They were striking against.
So the Pinkertonskind of got what they wanted.

(49:33):
Yeah.
They got, like, the businessgot what it wanted,
but at quite a cost.
Because congressional inquiriesled to debate about
whether companieslike the Pinkertons
should even be allowed to beinvolved in labor disputes.
And it was all very negativelyviewed at this point.
Like everyone was going,
why is this gigantic paidfor police force?

(49:55):
Ladd to acton behalf of these companies?
Where's our protection?
And the name Pinkerton startedbeing used to describe
any private militia that tookpart in strike breaking.
Eventually, lawswere put in place to limit
the power of companieslike the Pinkertons.
While operating in the US,as in 1893, Congress passed
the Anti Pinkerton Act to banthe use of private militia

(50:19):
by the federal government on USsoil.
Whilethe Pinkertons had been hired
almost exclusively by privateclients, the fact that they were
named in such a negativelaw was bad for business.
They had once worked
with the Underground Railroadand protected Abraham Lincoln,
but they were now bannedfrom any federal work.
So considering their actionsin the Civil War,

(50:39):
yeah, pretty big turnaround
and not being allowed to workfor the government at all.
Over the coming years and
decades,there would be more professional
law enforcementat the state and federal level.
And so the need for company
companies like the Pinkertonsstarted to fade.
The Pinkerton Detective Agencywould move away from outlaw
hunting and strike breaking,to move into corporate security

(50:59):
and private investigation work.
They would guard goldand payrolls, provide security
for large events,and investigate insurance fraud.
They managed to stay aliveand to this day still or,
operateas a corporate security company.
I really.
Pinkerton, work for companieslike Starbucks and Amazon.
Still union busting, sadly.
Oh, right. Yeah.

(51:21):
And, actually international.
Can we hire them to.There is a chain of it.
There was a Pinkerton DetectiveAgency office in Melbourne.
Yeah.
They have killed two peoplein the last five years.
Yeah.
That's okay.
This coming.
Right. To bring it here?
Yeah. In popular culture.

(51:42):
The Pinkertons appear
all over the shop,but not necessarily by name.
Popular author Clive Cussler
used the PinkertonDetective Agency
as inspirationfor the fictional Van Dorn
Detective Agency in his IsaacBell Detective series.
But more famously,there are Pinkerton men in Red
Dead Redemption two,the famous Rockstar Game.

(52:02):
This actually drew the ireof the modern day Pinkertons,
who took offenseto their portrayal
in the game and sued Rockstar.
Oh, that's not going to work.Well, yeah.
They eventually settledfor an undisclosed settlement
after Rockstar countersued,claiming
their depiction was accurate
and Pinkertons had been depictedin plenty of other Western
fiction as well. Yeah,
it can also be said that Allan

(52:22):
Pinkerton developedwhat we consider to be
the quintessentialprivate detective,
and that the entire genrecan trace its roots back
to the one manthat floated a river
looking for wood onelazy afternoon.
Found point.
I after hearing that, I would
say the depiction in the gameis pretty accurate.
Yeah, that's.
Considering in the gameyou play as an outlaw,

(52:44):
you play as the bad guy.
Yeah, they are the
antagonists of the gamebecause they're the good guys.
Yeah, in quotation marks.
So they're like,you know what I'm saying?
Yes. They are a bit of towardsthe first one,
into the first one.
They're a bit of dicks.
They're dicks. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
They that waspretty much their argument.

(53:05):
They're like heythis makes us look really bad.
And Rockstar was like.
You were this is accurate. Yeah.
Well like I saidin that perspective
they were because you're.Yeah an outlaw.
Yeah I think like it's just oddthat you can see the,
you can see themfollowing the money. Right.
Like early onthe money was in doing all this

(53:28):
good stuff because
Civil war right.
Yeah. Like a lot of their workcame from that.
But it was always on the sideof companies.
Right. Like they were neverfor the people.
Really.
No, but they were popular
because they protectedthings like your pay.
And then eventuallyit just becomes like
as corporationsand people start fighting more,

(53:51):
they're getting paidby the corporations. Yeah.
So they follow the money and andnot ruining their reputation.
That's businessreally. In a sense.
Yeah. But yeah,they still exist.
I didn't know that.That was interesting.
Yeah,they just called Pinkerton.
Now, I kind of think they'vethe Pinkerton Agency.
I think they've dropped the.
They have droppedthe detective name.

(54:11):
Still got an eye as their logo.
Yeah.
So they're still kicking around.
So that would put them at work225 years.
Sorry. 100 and.
No. Yeah. 225 years.
Yeah. Year old company.
That's that's that's not bad.
That's. Yeah, it's pretty good.
They have been acquiredlike they're
not just their own thing.Okay. Yeah.

(54:32):
But they are still operatingas an individual company. Yeah.
But it's pretty funny.
Like you mentioned otherother companies like this. Yes.
They werethere was a whole bunch
and a lot of themgot scooped up by the same.
Group.
So there'sa whole bunch of companies
that are likethis all just still operating.
Yeah.
Yeah, but they do a lotof corporate boring stuff now.
Very interesting.

(54:54):
Glad you enjoyed it.
Yeah.
And it's, like,
the private detective is reallyjust this guy.
Yeah. Like, following whathe did all the way through.
Yeah, he kind of just stumbledupon this profession.
And all you had to do
was just be slightly betterthan the police.
Yeah.

(55:15):
Anyway, any closing thoughts?
I, I got to, I didn't yeah,yeah.
Me too.
I kind of want to as well.
Yeah. Yeah. And it's. Yeah.
Yeah.
Well hope you enjoyed.
It's been fun.
We, we'll be backin another fortnight with,
I think your story correct.
And John'svery excited to write it.
He was useful.

(55:36):
I am, yeah I am it's,
a spiritual successorto two different episodes.
Okay.
Well we'll three.
One that gets brought up a lot
but not talked about a lot.
I'll leave it with that.
Okay. Boat. Intriguing.No boats.

(55:56):
We talk about boats a lot there.
There will be, I won'tI can't give you 100% guarantee.
You have no boats.
I can't give because I haven'tdelved deep into the research.
I'm confident there will beno boats in this episode.
Chase, I would I would nottake that to the bank.
I'm not taking it back.
Anyway, We hopeyou have a lovely evening.

(56:19):
Enjoy yourselfin a one way evening. Yeah.
I'm not editing that intro.
That intro was recorded.
Oh, no it's not.
Remember the one that I did
where I hadn't actuallywritten the intro?
Yeah, that was it.
That was quite goodtiming. Comedy.
Where is this intro?
Was just a cluster.
What's the.

(56:39):
Word for?
It was pretty funny though.
That's ended on that. Good.Not good. Not.
Take it easy.
Take it easy, take it easy.
Don't like the sound of your ownwheels.
Drive me crazy.

(56:59):
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