April 14, 2025 • 44 mins
Ever wondered what makes a great chef different from a good one?
In this soul-stirring conversation, host Simon Zatyrka sits down with culinary leader Adam Lamb to uncover the human side of professional kitchens. From dishwashing beginnings to leadership wisdom, they dive into the beautiful chaos of kitchen life, revealing how presence, patience, and humanity create not just outstanding food but extraordinary teams.
As Adam powerfully states, "What makes a great chef? I think really what separates the Good from the Great is this idea of being completely present in the moment, whether they're with their team or whether they're building a dish or where they're out with the guests. Nothing else exists except for that moment."
This episode takes you on a journey through professional kitchens – from the "island of misfit toys" culture that welcomes dedicated workers regardless of background, to the heightened sensory awareness chefs develop that allows them to "hear" when food is perfectly cooked.
Simon and Adam share candid stories about their formative culinary experiences, including Simon's trial-by-fire on a wood-fired grill and Adam's moment of revelation watching two line cooks move in perfect synchronization.
You'll discover practical leadership techniques like the "reset button" – a simple 30-second pause with water that can restore humanity during kitchen chaos – and why creating a culture of calm leadership ultimately produces better food than fear-based motivation.
As Adam wisely notes, "This industry is hard, and that's okay. It just doesn't have to be harsh."
Whether you're a seasoned chef, an aspiring culinary professional, or simply someone who appreciates what happens behind restaurant doors, this episode delivers hard-earned insights about facing fear, finding calm in chaos, and remembering why we fell in love with food in the first place.
Listen now to experience this conversation between two veteran chefs who've mastered not just cooking techniques, but the art of culinary leadership.
Connect with Adam
podcast website: https://www.chefliferadio.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chefadammlamb/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chefadammlamb/
Connect with Simon
Email: simon@culinarymechanic.com
Book a Call: https://calendly.com/culinarymechanic/connect
Website: https://www.simonsez.me/
If you're interested in Starfish: https://www.usestarfish.com/
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
Podtrac - https://analytics.podtrac.com/privacy-policy-gdrp
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hey all.
Welcome to Culinary Mechanic.
Um, I am so excited to announcethat Culinary Mechanic has joined
forces with the Heritage RadioNetwork out of New York City.
I just can't even begin to tell youhow much I think this is going to be.
Great things for Culinary mechanic.
Um.
(00:21):
But also I think we can add something coolto, to heritage, so that, that's awesome.
Um, and to get it all kickedoff, um, I ended up recording an
episode of Culinary Mechanic withChef Adam Lamb of Chef Life Radio.
And quite honestly, I don't rememberwhether it was before or after, but
we did an episode of Chef Life Radio,uh, a little podcast swap action and.
(00:47):
We, after both of us listeningto, to both episodes.
We realized, boy, we have something cool.
And just really interesting to see thecontrast of styles and um, the interesting
conversations that just unfolded.
Um, I believe that Chef Adam, um, alreadycreated another episode that was just a
(01:09):
riff off of our conversation, and he foundit to be, um, dare I say, inspirational,
the conversation that we had.
So.
What follows is, uh, two chefs sittingback talking about the things that
have been and the things that can be,and the things that are, um, and in
all honesty, I, I think I started therecorder and, and then it just happened.
(01:35):
There was no, there's usually a welcomeand, you know, welcome to this person.
And the whole intro, likecasual intro thing, and.
We just started talkingand we never got to it.
And I realized, well, we'rejust gonna have to do the thing.
And so that's why you get, um, alittle bit different of an intro today.
But, um, once again, this isAdam Lamb and myself, um, talking
(01:58):
through Chef Life, so please enjoy.
You're listening toHeritage Radio Network.
I.
(02:21):
From kitchen chaos to well-oiled machines.
Get ready for newfangledtechnology and old school Know-how
stories and a good bit of fun.
I'm Simon, and this iscalled Area Mechanic.
, Adam (02:38):
you wanna know the Batman origin story?
Simon (02:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Adam (02:43):
Okay.
Um.
You know, there was a, uh, it's sohokey, um, because where I lived in
Hammond, Indiana, which was rightbetween like Chicago and Gary.
My dad was a college professor and, uh,on his breaks and at lunchtime he would
go to a local restaurant, which is calledThe Big Wheel on Indianapolis Boulevard.
Uh, kind of been there forever and.
(03:03):
I was always kind of curious ofwho my dad was out in the public.
Right.
I had never seen him teach.
Right.
You know, all I knew about him waslike my experience at home, which
was, you know, sometimes rocky.
So, uh, when the opportunity came upfor a dishwasher position, I took it.
So I started working at the,at the, at the big wheel.
As a dishwasher hating life, man.
(03:24):
I mean, they beat theshit outta those pans.
I'd be scrubbing them,trying to get 'em clean.
I think, uh, even today there's probablya stack of 12 inch saute pans stuck
up in the, in the popcorn ceilingthat I just refuse to finish up.
But, um, I.
And sometimes I would like my daddy,he'd sit at the, he'd sit at the
counter and, uh, there was, uh, themain cook, her name was Artelia White.
(03:46):
She had a gold tooth in front, and sheworked the wheel, you know, back in the
day when there was a physical wheel.
And she would sit there in thewindow and, and just kind of
chat back and forth with my dad.
And he was kind of, you know,chatty up with the waitresses
and they, oh, Dr. And so, uh.
I'm kind of just trucking through there.
On one Friday night, I'm walking pastthe kitchen door and it was right in
(04:07):
the middle of service and the two women,Artelia White and this really, really
thin, severe woman who I'd never heardher speak out loud, Artelia was the
one that was always barking orders andstuff, but it was just this one weird
moment where I turned my head and I sawthe two women engaged in this dance.
Where there was pans and steam and foodand they, they went together and passed.
(04:34):
Like they moved in such a dance that theydidn't communicate anything outwardly.
But it was so smooth andbeautiful in that one moment.
And I turned away and I said, Idon't know what the hell that is,
ma'am, but I gotta get me some.
So yeah, I, I tried doing other things.
I, I. Sold clothes.
I sold to McCann shoes, but it justseemed like every time I came back
(04:57):
to working in a kitchen and thefirst time I got a Cook's job was
at a uh, Greek restaurant in a mall.
And, uh, the guy says to me, so you knowhow to clean beef tenderloins, right?
And I said, oh yeah,sure, sure, sure, sure.
And, uh, the first day there's a,another dude standing next to me.
We got our cutting boards and a stackof, you know, a case of pismos and I'm
kind of like watching out of the cornerof my eye to see how he's doing it.
(05:20):
And I'm trying to mimic what he's doing.
And I think like there was moremeat than silver skin in the
garbage can at, at that first one.
I mean, I just hacked the shit out of it.
I seem to learn really, really fast.
And the thing that struck me was thesense of community in the kitchen.
Like that's the first thing that reallypulled me in was this kind of idea of
(05:40):
the island of misfit toys where, youknow, it didn't matter where you came
from, what you did, uh, that as longas you could hold down your station and
work hard, um, you, you were accepted.
And so, absolutely.
That's kind of the thing that, thatrelational connection to me has been the
thing that's always driven my career.
I never really thought I had this ideaof like a specific type of cuisine
(06:01):
that was gonna be Adam or, or, youknow, trying to be avant garde or,
uh, trying to be ahead of the curve.
Although when I moved to South Floridathat were a group of us, uh, that were
following the Mango Gang, which was, youknow, Alan Susser and Norma Van Aiken,
and we were kind of like the ascendant.
Group of chefs.
And so that's when Floridian cuisine wasreally hot and stuff like that, so Right.
Um, got in the middle of that, but italways came down to like the crew, like
(06:26):
feeling part of the crew and feelingwhat that was like to go through.
I. Hell and high water through ashift only to find out at the end that
there was, there were no bring backs.
It was a perfect score.
And you look around at one anotherand you go, wow, did we just do that?
Because there's always that one moment inthis shift in the peak point where like
time compression just comes and everythingslows down, and you feel like right on
(06:50):
the edge of everything going sideways.
And somehow it's always the teamthat pulls us through, right?
And so,
I've been motivated by that type ofpassion and compassion all through
my career, and it's been a, a laborof love and it's, the industry has
given me so much opportunity, uh,to learn and to experiment and to be
(07:15):
different versions of myself becauseI was very focused on becoming the
Apex predator in the Punch Bowl from.
From where I grew up in Hammond,Indiana, I understood that if I
wanted to be a chef, I had to kindof hop jobs CAE City, south Chicago.
If I was gonna get up in the city,that's where I could be a chef.
(07:35):
And, uh, I got, as far asCAE City before, uh, before I
like, just was shaking my head.
I was a sous chef at a, at a countryclub and, uh, the executive chef was a
woman and she decided to visit upon meevery slight, every ill that had been.
She had had to suffer.
So I was basically the emotional whippingpost for the entire group of men.
(07:59):
And I learned very, very early onthat um, having the feminine in
the kitchen is a really good thing.
Like it provides balance in so many ways.
And so every very, my very firstexecutive chef job, my sous chef
was, uh, a woman and she saved myass from getting fired several times.
(08:19):
And she said, we had a goodbye cardfor me after a year and a half.
And she said to me, lamb, you know, youweren't a very good chef when you started,
uh, but you turned into a pretty good one.
And coming from Lori Walker,I took that high praise man.
For sure.
Simon (08:32):
That's good stuff.
You know, I, I listened to that and I go,and I just remember somebody I, I, I was
talking to not too long ago, say to me,you know, kitchen, kitchens in some ways.
Especially back in the day where likethe last true meritocracy, right?
Yep.
It's like everything.
It doesn't matter if you had green.
(08:53):
Well, no, it didn't matter if you hadgreen hair or if you had a mohawk or
nowadays it's like you got piercings,you got tattoos, whatever that is.
It, it really, it's like kick ass inthe kitchen, you know, and, and kick
ass on your station and keep it clean.
You're gold, you know?
(09:13):
Uh, talk about like the perfect score.
I worked in a steakhouse back, gosh, sothat was, yeah, mid nineties and the, it
was all wood fire back when I, it wasn't,that wasn't, um, I. It wasn't as popular.
Right.
And instead of being this sort of, the,the, the more shallow grates, these grates
(09:34):
were, oh, they were easily 32 inches deep.
So you, you had long tongs and youwere reaching back over a fire to get
that like well done back in the corner.
You know, you also had a bein Maria
Adam (09:45):
of ice water to stick your hand in, right?
Oh,
Simon (09:47):
yes.
Oh, yes.
And you had, you had the big ingredientbins at your feet with soaked wood.
So you were, so it was s smokey.
Mm-hmm.
And you couldn't see because you wereconstantly creating that, like you're
trying to cool temper that fire witha piece of wood so that you get some
smoke and really get everything going.
And at the end of the night, you know,you'd, you'd, you'd be cla if you were
(10:09):
on the grill, you'd be clamoring to the,to the chef or to the sous chef to say.
What, like how to do Oh, well you,right, you had, 'cause they wouldn't
in the middle of service, you'dnever, you'd never know because we
were just moving too fast, you know?
Um, and I'll never forget, I was one daythe, the grill cook, he had a rough one
and I just looked at the guy standing nextto me and I was the guy who was sauce and
(10:32):
plates and remember timbo of rice, right?
Pack in the rice, a littlebutter inside that cup
and.
Adam (10:44):
Right.
The confetti on the rim, that wasback in the day with the timbo.
Oh
Simon (10:47):
man.
This, this was, this was onestep removed from that because
we had nothing on the plate.
Right.
There was no garnish.
It was a steakhouse.
We plated everything in the window.
So the plates were lightning hot.
And you, your, the inside of yourforearms were just scars constantly.
Yeah.
It was years before Igot rid of those things.
Um.
(11:08):
And so I, I just, I thoughtI had the easy job, right?
I'm the sauce guy.
I make sauces.
I know how to learn howto do that, and it's cool.
And I said to the, the guy sort ofin the middle, you know, he was,
he helped plate and everything.
I was like, man, I, I don'tknow if I could do that.
And this son of a bitch turns to thechef at after service and he goes,
(11:29):
Simon doesn't think he could grill.
So I walk in the next day,it's a Wednesday night, and
I, I, there you go, man.
You know, I, I shook hands with the chef.
Said, good afternoon, sir. And he said,good afternoon, you're on the grill today.
I was like, what?
I turned and I look at Tony.
I was like, what did you do?
Like you're the only person I said that.
He's like, he's like, well, I just toldhim that you didn't think you had it.
(11:51):
And so I'd never worked that grill.
I'd worked multiple grills throughoutthe previous four or five, six years and.
At the end of the night, I turned andI looked, and he goes, if it wasn't
for the fact that the other guy wouldcry every day, if he didn't get to
be on the grill, I'd put you on thegrill because there was less drama.
And like, right.
(12:12):
You, you just did it.
And you were so scared to screwup that you didn't, you just, you
were, you were like a machine.
And I was like, thank you.
He goes, now get back to your station.
I don't know about you, but I did notget into the restaurant business to spend
all my time in a cramp little office.
I love being in thekitchen, out on the floor.
(12:34):
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(12:54):
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If you're interested, go totheir website, use starfish.
(13:15):
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Adam (13:21):
You know that you bring up a great point, man, that you know, that
fear of fucking up, you know, is canserve you really, really well, man.
Because now all of a sudden, like, I thinkjust like anything else, man, once we
start getting complacent and comfortable,that's when the trouble starts.
I. But as long as we're likeapproaching things with a certain
amount of, uh, you know, I, I wouldreplace probably fear with reverence.
(13:44):
I was thinking about our conversationtoday and, uh, one of the things
that kept popping up in my headwas this idea of presence, right?
Like what makes a great chef?
Um, and we can talk about, you know,leadership and all this other stuff,
but I think really what separatesthe good from the Great is this
idea of being completely present inthe moment, whether they're within.
Mm-hmm.
Or whether they're with, youknow, building a dish or where
(14:05):
they're out with the guests.
You know, they're, they're like, nothingelse exists except for that moment, right?
Yeah.
Everything's passes going all around them.
But if they can just be presentin that one moment, I, an, uh,
opportunity to, to do that.
During Covid, there was a server who waslike on the verge of breakdown and we were
walking back and forth in this hallwayand I just stopped her and I said, listen,
(14:26):
I just need you to just let it all out.
I, you know.
I gotcha.
And people were walking past andI'm like, I don't care about them.
Like, I didn't care about whetherservice was starting or anything.
Like for me, the most important thingin that moment was being there for her.
Like it didn't end up that I, that wesolved anything or that it, you know,
that it made her feel any better.
(14:46):
But I think in that one moment shegot that I was willing to listen to
her regardless of whether I had a,like, um, a solution for her or not.
It was kind of like.
Bringing me back to this idea of like,when we can have that presence in every
moment of our day, man, the great day.
Simon (15:05):
Yeah.
You know, I think, I think for me, likeI, I, I had a time in my sous chef career,
you know, it was probably four or fiveyears long where I was this spazz man.
Like, things would hit me in theface and I'd be like, oh my God.
You know, like the sky is falling and.
(15:26):
I had a chef who.
He had moments of zen-like clarity.
He didn't have a lot of them'cause he was pretty high.
You know, he had come from one, hecome from one of those cultures, right?
That, and I had spent time in the samecompany, but one of those cultures where
um, it was openly said that like, ifyou're brilliant, asshole is tolerated.
(15:50):
Right?
Yeah.
And so and so the nuclearwould come to him pretty fast.
Like he'd be calm, he'd be calm,he'd be like the, and he was a tall
dude, he's probably six three, right?
Bald head.
He was a swimmer, so he hadshoulders wide as as Kansas.
And he just had this hay, had a presence.
And there was moments where I would justbe like, how are you so calm right now?
(16:14):
Like, how do you do that?
And.
He, you know, but then he would justrock past that and just go into like the
screaming, yelling, like pulling out.
Harry didn't have, yeah.
And I asked him one dayand he said, Simon, if you.
Are committed to success, you'll, youwill quickly see that the, the attitude,
(16:37):
the demeanor, the fear, all those thingsthat, that, that are on the face of
your team is a direct mirror of you.
So if you can stay calm,they can stay calm.
And I said, how come you can't stay calm?
He said, I just, I, I, I try.
He goes, I really try.
He goes, and I know I have somegood moments, but I, I just, shit.
(16:59):
And I was like, okay, I got it.
And it took me a few years toget past that experience, right?
Like just a couple more kitchens andall of a sudden I had someone say.
Tonight was kind of crazy.
How, how are you so calm?
And I thought, oh my, I did it.
And I, and I really think you're right.
It's, it's being clear about exactlywhere you are in that moment and what
(17:24):
is best for my, I stopped thinking aboutmyself and I started thinking about my
team more and how they were reacting tomy spas or, or my lack of spas, you know?
And now, now I tell people.
Hey man, I want you to bethe eye of the hurricane.
I want you to be that calm centerwhere everything around you is
(17:47):
just flying outta control, butyou're calm and, and thinking.
I. What next steps are so thatyou can direct that craziness,
Adam (17:58):
you know?
Sure.
Yeah.
Because there's a way to harnessthat energy that's happening
all around you and direct it.
Yeah.
But never gonna be from a point of youbeing that excited and energetic Right.
To drop to your knowing andgo, okay, so this is where it's
gonna go, and how do I get there?
Um, you know, I'll bet any amountof money that, that night when you
were on that fir on that grill,that first time, you were absolutely
(18:20):
present, everything that was going on.
You knew everything was on, likethere was nothing that was gonna
carry your attention away from them.
Simon (18:27):
Well, and the other part was the, the guy who was normally
on the grill was on my station andhe was stuck and he was, he was.
Half coaching, half heckling me.
He's like, come on, little boy.
Come on little boy.
You can do it.
But he was also digging me a littlebit here and there, you know?
Sure.
Um, and so I was determined.
(18:49):
I was like, well, Iknow how to cook steaks.
I'm just afraid right now.
'cause this is a bigger, thisis a bigger pond, you know?
I mean, and this was a place thatwas doing in the nineties was doing
64 ounce double bone and rib chops.
Those are massive.
Dude, that's a, that's a, that's somethingyou make for Sunday dinner, you know?
Adam (19:10):
Yeah.
And the thing about solidwood fuel man, is that.
That grill's got a life of its own man.
There's the hot spots and the coolspots and you know, it changes with
like every log you throw in there.
So if you're not like watchingeverything and like figuring it out
constantly, it's a constant evolutionof like, where am I going now?
What's happening over here?
Like, where am I gonna move?
And so a completely differentfrom any other type of fuel.
(19:32):
And there is certainly an art.
There are a couple restaurants out.
Uh.
Out in, uh, California, like, uh, Iwas out where they filmed the movie.
Um, the movie Sideways.
The Wine movie.
Simon (19:45):
Yep, yep, yep.
Remember?
Uh, that's Ojai.
No.
Um, sorry.
No Robles.
That's Passa Robles.
Adam (19:52):
No, it's, yeah.
Uh, LOOC.
Uh, Buin.
Right.
There you go.
So there's a couple restaurants rightoutside of Builtin that are these huge
warehouses, um, that use those huge.
I mean, the grate itself ishanging from the ceiling.
You can lift it up and liftit down over the Oh, wow.
And these guys, these three guys, justbecause there's a glass window there and
(20:14):
you can sit and watch these guys work.
It's mesmerizing, dude.
I mean, it's just like those guys areworth every penny that they get paid.
'cause it, it comes out the product.
And to your point, plates are clean.
There's nothing on it.
It's just like, here's yourbeauty right there, man.
Fantastic stuff,
Simon (20:30):
man.
That was the, the space where the filetwould sit on the toast round and if
it bled through the toe, if there wasblood on the plate, you were replating.
Adam (20:40):
Yeah.
Simon (20:40):
Oh,
Adam (20:41):
I mean, today, I, and again, folks actually know that they
gotta let that stuff rest, right?
Let it rest before you played it.
Please.
Simon (20:50):
Uh, I learned those lessons.
Boy, I learned those lessons, youknow, and, and, and I, I, I, as at the
end of my tenure there, I was, I wasconfident enough in, uh, in plating that
I would look at the chef and go, Hey.
Like, for some reason he didn't get those,those two ribeyes on, and now they need to
(21:12):
rest, so we're gonna do that next again.
He's like, no, I want that.
I'm like, no chef, because if I doit, I'm, I'm gonna do it three times.
I'm gonna plate it three timesinstead of just giving you what
you want the first time and out.
And, you know, he, the,thankfully the chef and I were.
We were pretty good friends, right?
And so he, he, he learned that Iwas growing really quickly and, you
(21:34):
know, um, but after like two yearsof that I was like, okay, I gotta go.
I like, that was an, that wassuch an intense environment.
I wanted to learn more about food.
Um.
I think for me, like those were dayswhen I couldn't get a pan in my hand.
I'd walk in and they'd see grill cook,uh, and I was just stuck on the grill.
(21:56):
I started lying, right?
Like, what do you do?
I'm a saute cook, you know?
And the first time I did thatwas rough, but I, I learned, you
know, I was like, uh, I am like,uh, I'm just a little rusty.
Uh, you know?
Right, right.
Exactly.
The cook training mewould, would show me and.
Um, I mean, I was in Albuquerque,New Mexico in the nineties.
(22:16):
It wasn't exactly a food mecca, you know?
Sure.
Um, there's a couple places, but
Adam (22:22):
man, um, I like.
If I could just round backto that first experience.
Yes, sir. Working a Greek restaurant.
You know, I, I learned a lot there.
Um, and one of the things that I learnedhad nothing really to do with cooking,
but the owner, uh, about 10 45 everymorning would tell me, okay, load up
the griddle, uh, with liver and onions.
(22:43):
And I'm like, what?
Now?
You gotta understand liver andonions was not on the menu.
But he had me do tire, you know,36 inch griddle with liver and
onions right before the doors open.
And after a couple of times Isaid, well, if we're, this is not
on the menu, why are we doing it?
He said, did you ever smell itoutside in the, in the hallway?
(23:05):
And I'm like, no.
So then he had me go out intothe hallway in this mall.
And as a walking past, you know, you don'treally know if it's liver and onion, like
all you know is you start salivating.
And that's how he would getpeople ice to come in to have.
And I'll tell you, man, I remember that20 years later when I was at a seafood
restaurant in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.
And what I would do is right at thehostess stand, I would put, uh, a, uh, a
(23:30):
little burner with a pot of oil and herbs,you know, rosemary, garlic, that, and
on a, just on a slow burn and have thatkinda waft while people walked in, man.
That's, that's really cool.
Like when you can startexciting those senses.
That's, I was reflecting onthis the other day as well.
I was like, when you're in thekitchen, like you have to use
(23:50):
every single one of your senses.
Like you can't have earbuds in 'causeyou gotta listen to shit in the pan.
You know, you can't like, yeah.
Every single sense of yours,it's heightened and it becomes
developed in such a way thatyou can s you can tell when.
You could see a pan and know thatsomething's not happening, right,
because you can't hear it or youcan't see it in a particular way.
And I think a lot of us don'treally, don't really give ourselves
(24:13):
credit for the hypersensitivitythat we become accustomed to.
Like that is part of what we do, sothat when we go out into the real world
or the other world, uh, to take a jobsomewhere else, our sensors are like,
well, what do you want me to do now, man?
Simon (24:31):
Yeah.
I mean, being able, when you startto understand that, like something
that sauteing has a higher pitchwhen it's starting to burn.
Mm. Right.
Um, and it took me a while tofigure that one out and I learned
it with mushrooms and so Oh yeah.
The
Adam (24:46):
tweak this
Simon (24:48):
week, so Right.
So when all the, when allof the moisture goes out.
Basically what happens is when whenyou boil all the moisture out of the
mushroom, now it's just frying, right?
And it makes a different pop.
And I, and when Ilearned that, I was like.
I was like, I started like turning upthe heat on mushrooms to listen to 'em.
(25:10):
Right.
And then, so now I'll be at home,you know, and I'll be cooking and
maybe I'll like, uh, that's got afew minutes and I'll walk around
the corner into the living room.
And now it's like, oh wait, I canhear the, the tone has changed.
Time to go back.
And, and the first time I did that, Ithink in a professional kitchen, somebody
looked at me like, how did you do that?
I'm like, listen to it.
It's, it's gonna tell you the story.
(25:33):
Yeah, right.
Exactly.
Yeah.
You know, you also, like, I learned it onthe flat top too, because like this one
cook liked to cook at, like, he would,he was scared of making mistakes, so
he would turn the flat top down to like3 40, 3 50, and I'm like, that thing
needs to be ripping at like four 50.
Like, otherwise you don't get the series.
(25:53):
Like, no, no, I overcooked things.
Then
Adam (25:55):
there's no caramelization, there's no mal.
I'm, I'm
Simon (25:57):
like, no, no, no.
You have to, you haveto be a better timer.
Then I said, wait longer to fire things.
He's like, what?
It, what?
I'm like, Hey, man.
Like, like slow is smooth.
Smooth is fast.
Don't, don't, don't equatefast with, with good.
Right, right.
(26:17):
You know, it'll, it'll.
Adam (26:20):
Yeah, but to your point, stage it all, like now you've got your proteins
sitting in front of you and now you'reall just waiting for a pickup and
then it's bang go instead of like,I, you know, I see kitchens that, uh,
employ KDS systems and they don't,um, split their tickets up by station.
So every ticket goes to everystation, and what I see happen is the
(26:40):
cooks will get ahead of themselvesand start firing stuff without.
Really firing it inorder to make it come up.
And um, you know, you see some reallycrazy stuff on the grill where these
guys are just hammering this meat justto get it out in under 15 minutes when
in fact that's probably an unrealisticexpectation for a 16 ounce prime ribeye.
(27:04):
You know what I'm saying?
Like that is not doingthat meet any justice.
So I like there was a place inFort Lauderdale that, uh, seafood
re the same seafood restaurant.
Yeah, I had the only printer as an expo.
Nobody else had any tickets andI had seven stations and we did
750 to a thousand covers a night,and we never missed a beat.
But you get to be really, really good atcalling out stations and, and pick up.
(27:26):
Now you might need, you know, threebusboy behind you to boost trays
because it's coming out so fast.
But you know, you'd getting todictate windows and stuff, but
it really start to appreciate.
How long it actually takes to saute a pan.
Scallops, you know, versusgrowing a piece of fish.
And when that's, now it's trying topick up, because our job is to make
(27:47):
sure that that food is at the heightof perfection, not only from a raw
state, but also from a cook stateat the time to get it to the table.
Because after that, there's declining.
Uh, benefit to like, now it's sittingin the plate now, now the juice is
pooling, like for, especially for scalps.
So it's a real art form that Ithink, again, um, not a lot of people
(28:07):
appreciate and I don't think wegive ourselves enough credit for.
Simon (28:11):
Yeah.
Adam, I love how when you and I talklike you, you strike such deep things
in my brain and I wanna completelyshift gears and talk about exactly
what you just said, which is.
In today's world, and I want anybodywho's listening or watching out there
to understand that KDS is more, moreprevalent than it ever has been before.
(28:35):
Kitchen display system, it screensinstead of tickets and it's taking away
some of the art of expediting, right?
We're we're seeing more things getsplit up onto things and I think that
my point that I wanna make here is.
It needs to be clear in the mindsof the proprietors, the owners, the
chefs, the, the gen, the dining roommanagers, that this is a new art, right?
(29:01):
This is a new skill.
Designing a menu that comes througha KDS system and that that is
coordinated and comes togetheris a completely different thing.
And yeah.
I don't think that everybodyrealizes that when they, when they
get their fancy new technology.
'cause everybody's excitedabout this shit and I love it.
Right?
Sure.
Like I, I was a part of a teamthat converted seven restaurants
(29:26):
in three months to KDS.
Mm-hmm.
But the first ones were tough, man.
The first one, it was like, oh, okay.
And you had to find new ways ofdoing things because all of a sudden
each cook, like in this place,each cook had only their stuff.
Adam (29:43):
Yeah.
Right.
Which is the way should, and so we
Simon (29:45):
did some things.
Yes, we did some things where we, weaudited the menu a little bit, edited
the menu a little bit so that therewas, if there was anything that was
really long, we were looking for waysthat we could, without sacrificing
quality speed up production.
You know, and we still had them.
We still had like you have if beeffajitas and they want 'em all done.
(30:07):
Well then, um, that it was theresponsibility of that cook to
scream down to the other side andgo, Hey, just wait on table 61.
I don't know what you'redoing, but I'm not there yet.
I'll give you five and atfive everything can go flying
forward, you know, but I think.
I think it's really important tounderstand that how technology
(30:29):
is changing what we old guyshave done for decades, right?
It's not the same, it'snot the same madness.
It's a new madness.
Adam (30:38):
Yeah.
I, I couldn't agree with you more, Simon.
Uh, the first thing I, Iguess I wanna say is I'm a big
proponent of technology, right?
Mm-hmm.
I think that there is a, a place.
Uh, for it in all our operations.
And my rule of thumb is, is if itwill provide me more opportunity
to be front facing to the guest,then I will, I'll look at that.
(31:00):
But if it takes me more time to beingin the office, I don't want to know.
So, to your point about KDS, I thinkeven in the best of times, like
when it went from, you know, expoonly having to the printer, now,
now every station has a printer.
I think the same thing applies from KDS.
I don't think KDS.
Which is an incredibly dynamic system,and to your point, needs some adjustment.
(31:21):
I don't think that that means thatyou go without a fucking expediter.
I think the expediter is even moreessential then because all you're doing
is letting the cooks know that they'vegot 12 chicken all day on their station.
Right?
That's probably thebest thing that it does.
Now you can look down and you can seeone of the problems with KDS is if you.
Have, um, say most pantrystations also have their dessert
(31:44):
stations incorporated to that.
Well, if you've got three, six tops andfour, two tops and all you've got, you're
looking at this window and all you've gotis salads and stuff showing, and all of
a sudden you've got desserts that pop up.
I. The expectation is the dessert shouldgo out before the six top goes out
because you don't want that two top.
So there's that nuance where anexpeditor can actually be helping
(32:05):
the guys going, okay, wait a second.
If you scroll, like clickthrough your screen.
There's one at the bottom.
We need to get that out first.
So I don't think it's, um.
I think it's a great addendum too, butI, I think anybody who thinks that they
shouldn't have an expeditor is missingpoint because again, there's all kinds
of garnish, there's all kinds of, uh,sauces and stuff that need to happen,
(32:25):
and really a high, high value expoperson can take care of a lot of that,
and it shouldn't necessarily only belike an assistant manager front of the
house manager who's doing it becausehe's got extra time on his hands.
This needs to be a right.
Position that's very well thoughtout and valued because it can
make or break a lot of operations.
Simon (32:45):
Yeah.
Just from food point standpoint, Imean, we, we had, I worked for a company
for, for a while and it was a shortwindow, but boy, it was a neat one.
And they turned the expo into the fq,which was the food quality specialist,
and it was kind of an interesting thing.
Sure.
It was a, wasn't quite afull big corporate move.
(33:06):
Um, but it, it.
They, they loved it and then theystarted looking at the additional
labor that we were incurring.
'cause we weren't, we weren'tjust bringing in a, an
experienced bus boy to do it.
Right.
Like, that's what a Sure, that'swhat a lot of times happens.
You get on the outside of an,you get an expo and he's, he's
like the best bus boy, right.
A food runner.
(33:26):
I'm a best food runner.
Um, and so what we were doing was reallytaking guy, guys and gals who were
line supervisor, junior sous, chef,qual, like they were good cooks, right?
And I used it as a lever because I couldgo and then take that expo position over.
When things got deep, and I could sendthat cook in, I could send that person
(33:48):
into the line and go here, dig them out.
Or I could get back behind theline and talk directly to that
person and help dig, right?
Adam (33:56):
Well, we used, we used to call that the hammer in the anvil, right?
So you've got that one that's afloater in the on the line, and
you're like, directing, okay, godown a saute because we're back.
Like, and you're not, you'reproviding assistance to that
leverage in that particular point.
And I think, uh, that food quality thing.
What a great benefit.
Like I'm saute cook, I've been gettingthem shit kicked outta me for three
(34:16):
weeks straight and I get to go do expo.
I get to do food quality one night.
Like it's an additional benefit wecan provide our cooks and I, I mean,
the implication is that that personknows there's, knows the food so well.
Not only their station,but all the stations.
They have the critical eye andskill to be able to look at stuff
and know if it's right or not.
(34:37):
And I think that's a great acknowledgementfor somebody who, you know, has been
in the trenches and has an opportunityto like just take a breath and to your
point, you know, gets in the weeds.
That time compression whereeverything gets slammed.
I. I opened up a restaurant in the, ina movie theater in Boca Raton, Florida.
The very first time a full servicerestaurant was in a movie theater, 16 inch
loves seats in these balconies, and therewas like 150 seats in the bistro, and then
(35:01):
another 150 seats in the back, more formaldining room, and then some other stuff.
We used to do the concessions,but every night was like.
You got people who've got a place to go,they sit down, they come in late, okay, my
movie starts at eight, can I get my food?
Like, we had to go throughthat every single night.
And I remember quite clearly,man, 7 45 1 night on a Saturday,
(35:22):
I just let the machine run.
I mean, the tickets were just, theywere piling up on the floor because
we just needed a minute to regroup.
And this is like 10 guys on the line,on five stations, and they're beat nasa.
We need two expos, four foodrunners, because again, there's
a time compression now and then.
20 minutes later, it's deadquiet in the kitchen and you
know it's gonna ramp up again.
(35:42):
So that opportunity to giveeverybody a break and a breather,
I think is really important, man.
Simon (35:47):
Oh yeah, the, the master reset button is, is key.
I, I learned that from gettingcrushed at this one seafood
restaurant here in Seattle.
Just, and what I learned to do was makeeye contact with my favorite busboy
and go, and I'd make the kind of a,like the, the drinking, uh, gesture.
(36:08):
And he'd go and grab a full tray of.
Of cups for the, for thekitchen and fill 'em with water.
And then he'd let me know thathe was there and he'd, he'd come
down the I'd say, okay, come on.
And he'd just walk down theline handing out waters.
And I would make everybodystop for 30 seconds.
And it was usually when we werejust getting just destroyed.
(36:30):
And the first time that happened,the GM looked at me and she
said, what are you doing?
Why are you stopping?
I was like, because we're not,
we're, we're, we're like,not machine spitting
out, you know, we're, we're in the, we're in the, we're in the
chavelle ss just burning our tires, man.
We're not going anywhere.
Like everybody's sputtering.
Everybody's like stupid right now.
(36:52):
So I would make, I would make thesaute cook just turn off its burners.
Like it's you.
Take your shit out like on the grill.
Grab a sheet pan, put everythingon that sheet pan for 30 seconds.
Drink your water all the way down.
Hand the cup back toJimmy, and then, okay.
Are you ready?
Sweet.
First three tickets.
(37:13):
Next three tickets, next three tickets.
And, and then that last service wouldgo and everybody would high five.
And we would, we would slay it and thenget ready for the nine o'clock rush.
Adam (37:23):
This comes, this comes right back to like the, the underlying theme
of the things that we were talkingabout, like the chef as leader, right?
To be able to have.
That presence of mind are likegoing, we are on the verge, man.
We are the, like the car is tippingover on two wheels right now.
And if I don't pull back, not in a crazyway, like not like, ah, damn, I can't, no.
(37:43):
Just to be able to pullback just for a few moments.
And to your point, it justtakes a moment to, to reset.
And everybody goes, what?
Right.
Okay.
And then they double down in their effort.
But if we're not theones leading emotionally.
Everybody's keying on us.
What is he gonna lose his shit now?
Like, do I need to lose my shit or no?
Like, no, dude, we're justgonna have a glass of water now.
(38:04):
That's all we're gonna do.
Simon (38:04):
No, uh, I, I've, I've, since those days, and that was probably 15 years ago,
I've realized that it restores humanity.
Adam (38:14):
Sure it does.
It is
Simon (38:15):
really what it does.
It really restores you stop being that.
A machine or that robotfor the, for the business.
And you are, you're a cook.
And it's hard, you know?
And, and I think that once I learnedthat, I started teaching it, and I
saw it happen a couple times wherethe sous chef would just be like.
(38:38):
Get some water, get some water,you know, get, get cups of water.
Like, like he was scared to do it.
And I saw him do it andhe's like, everybody drank.
We're like, it was the end of astupid lunch rush in a, in a really
busy downtown, like the Amazon,you know, Amazon is right above us.
And like, oh, they were tough boy.
They, they were demanding folks, but he,he was like, you know, I remember I, I
(39:00):
showed up and I was a multi-unit at thetime, so I showed up at the end of lunch
and he's like, I did the reset thing.
Like whispered to me, he's like, I did it.
I'm like, how'd it go?
He's like, so good.
Everybody thanked me, including,including the, the, the expo and
the food runners who were confused.
They were just, they had an opportunityto like clear the window of things
that were there and get, and theyweren't being pushed and, and overrun.
(39:25):
You know, it's such a weird thingthat, to think that 45 seconds
to a minute can do that, but itreally, I think it's, I think it's.
Adam (39:35):
It's hurt.
Listen, when, when you, when yousaid it restores humanity, that hits
something in my heart because, youknow, I've been that person on the line.
And when you start to feellike a machine, like you start
off like, yeah, I'm a machine.
Yeah, man.
But then after a while, man, you'relike, like, like the fuck, man.
I'm not a machine.
I'm a goddamn like da da da.
And you start to reallydo that dance of like.
(39:58):
Losing your shit walking off theline, just like whatever it is.
And in those moments, they don't comevery often, but when those moments come,
to have someone who's gonna restorethe humanity with a glass of water or a
reset or just wait to call tickets forfor a minute or whatever that is, brings
me back to like, no, this is something,this is something I do because I love
and, um, and restoring my humanityreconnects me to the reason why I love it.
(40:23):
Right, because like I said, Igot into it for the humanity.
I got in it for the connection.
I got into it for like the bonds thathappen under, under intense pressure.
You know, that that idea ofperturbation where pressure,
pressure, pressure, pressure,that's how a piece of coal becomes
a piece of, uh, you know, a diamond.
But that perturbation can onlylast so long before there's a
release or be becomes an explosion.
(40:45):
And so to your point, I think, uh.
That comes from wisdom, that comes frommaturity, that comes from experience,
comes from being there and, um, it's,um, I think it's a perspective, uh,
that many more people should share.
Simon (41:03):
Yeah, I mean, I think, I think the one for me that really, like, as
I've gotten older, I start to realize.
In inciting a little bit offear and creating a a a a
pressure cooker environment.
It only works to a certain point andI start, I've now started to think
(41:24):
about it like the tachometer in my car.
There's a red line there.
And up to that point, you cancreate some great stuff, right?
Like you can, you can motivatepeople to go fast and hard, but at
some point, like you hit red lineand then it starts to go down.
And the reality for me is you canonly get people to make great food.
(41:49):
At that red line for a few, for alittle while because at some point,
stressed, cooks don't make better food.
Anxious cooks who are in fear oftheir job don't make better food.
I don't care what anybody says.
Like there's a point.
Yes, you can do it.
And, and we've seen it and, andit's glamorized in on TV sometimes
(42:10):
our buddy Gordon Ramsey has, hasmade a career out of showing that.
Sure.
But that's a shtick.
It and it totally is like, I, I gotto be behind the scenes years ago,
um, on the set of the, the secondseason of Hell's Kitchen, and that
guy was, he was instructing peopleto turn off ovens and turn off a ac
just to turn up the heat on people.
Right, exactly.
(42:30):
So that's show, and I think thatpeople need to understand that.
Right.
But.
There's on, there's a breaking point.
There's a, there's a red line to ahuman's capacity to do great stuff, right?
Under, under that much pressure.
I think that right learning, that'swhy, you know, people are being
(42:52):
nicer and kinder and, and I thinkhopefully more focused on standards
rather than, than just greatness.
Right.
Because, um.
It is, it is damaging at somepoint to people's psyche.
And we, you've, you've talked aboutit for years, I've talked about it
(43:13):
for years, but I think that remind,remembering that we are human beings
that are actually like trying to dosomething that we are passionate and love.
Right?
Yeah.
And I, I implore people nowadaysto ask themselves, so was that fun?
Because if it wasn't fun, likehow do we make it fun again?
(43:33):
Right.
Yeah.
What's
Adam (43:33):
the point of doing it?
I mean, I like that I always stand bythis, like this industry, um, uh, is hard.
Uh, and that's okay.
It just doesn't have to be harsh.
Yes.
Right?
Yes.
Like the fact that we are held toa higher standard, that, that we
are, you know, asked to do thingswith our mind and body and spirit.
(43:54):
Uh, that push us outside of ourcomfort zone, I think serves us
overall, uh, to, to understand whatresiliency and adaptability might
mean in our personal lives as well.
Like, it's okay that it's hard.
It just doesn't have to be harsh.
Right?
And that's where it comes from.
Like, don't, like don't be an asshole,but don't be a doormat either, right?
Yeah.
And the only way you can bridge thatgap is by manage, like leading with
(44:16):
standards, period, end of story.
Because anything else is just leading bypersonality and then you're up to, well,
to whether I feel good or I feel bad.
So, yeah.
Simon (44:26):
Yeah.
I've been joking recently that Iwanted that my, my first book is
gonna be, Hey, chef, don't Be a Dick
Adam (44:35):
for a while.
For a while in a series of postscalled Don't Be a Dick Like Me.
Simon (44:41):
All right, chef Adam Lamb.
Hey brother.
Uh, as usual con the conversationwith you and I just goes
in, in wonderful directions.
I cannot tell you how much Iappreciate you coming to play in
my little sandbox of the world.
Thank you.
Um.
Tell us how we find you out there in the
Adam (44:59):
Sure.
Um, well, the podcast iscalled Chef Life Radio.
Uh, the website is chef life coaching.com,or you can hit me up on LinkedIn,
uh, where I have a, a presence.
And of course on the other I. Uh, othersites, but primarily in LinkedIn for sure.
DM me.
If, you know, you listen tothe show and you got a kick
out of it, please let us know.
(45:20):
Um, we're always happy for that.
And if you have any questions, youknow, you can call me at (828) 407-3359.
Simon (45:27):
Awesome.
Adam (45:29):
Thank you brother.
So the
Simon (45:29):
rest of you out there, please go leave us a review.
Five stars is amazing.
Heard somebody say recently.
It's either five stars or nothing.
Well, I'll take, I'll take what yougive me, but I'd love five stars.
Uh, you can find this on YouTube.
You can find this on Apple and Spotifyand wherever you get your podcasts.
Thanks for playing.
Thanks for coming to see usand catch on the flip side.
Hey all.
Welcome to Culinary Mechanic.
Um, I am so excited to announcethat Culinary Mechanic has joined
forces with the Heritage RadioNetwork out of New York City.
I just can't even begin to tell youhow much I think this is going to be.
Great things for Culinary mechanic.
Um.
(00:21):
But also I think we can add something coolto, to heritage, so that, that's awesome.
Um, and to get it all kickedoff, um, I ended up recording an
episode of Culinary Mechanic withChef Adam Lamb of Chef Life Radio.
And quite honestly, I don't rememberwhether it was before or after, but
we did an episode of Chef Life Radio,uh, a little podcast swap action and.
(00:47):
We, after both of us listeningto, to both episodes.
We realized, boy, we have something cool.
And just really interesting to see thecontrast of styles and um, the interesting
conversations that just unfolded.
Um, I believe that Chef Adam, um, alreadycreated another episode that was just a
(01:09):
riff off of our conversation, and he foundit to be, um, dare I say, inspirational,
the conversation that we had.
So.
What follows is, uh, two chefs sittingback talking about the things that
have been and the things that can be,and the things that are, um, and in
all honesty, I, I think I started therecorder and, and then it just happened.
(01:35):
There was no, there's usually a welcomeand, you know, welcome to this person.
And the whole intro, likecasual intro thing, and.
We just started talkingand we never got to it.
And I realized, well, we'rejust gonna have to do the thing.
And so that's why you get, um, alittle bit different of an intro today.
But, um, once again, this isAdam Lamb and myself, um, talking
(01:58):
through Chef Life, so please enjoy.
You're listening toHeritage Radio Network.
I.
(02:21):
From kitchen chaos to well-oiled machines.
Get ready for newfangledtechnology and old school Know-how
stories and a good bit of fun.
I'm Simon, and this iscalled Area Mechanic.
, Adam (02:38):
you wanna know the Batman origin story?
Simon (02:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Adam (02:43):
Okay.
Um.
You know, there was a, uh, it's sohokey, um, because where I lived in
Hammond, Indiana, which was rightbetween like Chicago and Gary.
My dad was a college professor and, uh,on his breaks and at lunchtime he would
go to a local restaurant, which is calledThe Big Wheel on Indianapolis Boulevard.
Uh, kind of been there forever and.
(03:03):
I was always kind of curious ofwho my dad was out in the public.
Right.
I had never seen him teach.
Right.
You know, all I knew about him waslike my experience at home, which
was, you know, sometimes rocky.
So, uh, when the opportunity came upfor a dishwasher position, I took it.
So I started working at the,at the, at the big wheel.
As a dishwasher hating life, man.
(03:24):
I mean, they beat theshit outta those pans.
I'd be scrubbing them,trying to get 'em clean.
I think, uh, even today there's probablya stack of 12 inch saute pans stuck
up in the, in the popcorn ceilingthat I just refuse to finish up.
But, um, I.
And sometimes I would like my daddy,he'd sit at the, he'd sit at the
counter and, uh, there was, uh, themain cook, her name was Artelia White.
(03:46):
She had a gold tooth in front, and sheworked the wheel, you know, back in the
day when there was a physical wheel.
And she would sit there in thewindow and, and just kind of
chat back and forth with my dad.
And he was kind of, you know,chatty up with the waitresses
and they, oh, Dr. And so, uh.
I'm kind of just trucking through there.
On one Friday night, I'm walking pastthe kitchen door and it was right in
(04:07):
the middle of service and the two women,Artelia White and this really, really
thin, severe woman who I'd never heardher speak out loud, Artelia was the
one that was always barking orders andstuff, but it was just this one weird
moment where I turned my head and I sawthe two women engaged in this dance.
Where there was pans and steam and foodand they, they went together and passed.
(04:34):
Like they moved in such a dance that theydidn't communicate anything outwardly.
But it was so smooth andbeautiful in that one moment.
And I turned away and I said, Idon't know what the hell that is,
ma'am, but I gotta get me some.
So yeah, I, I tried doing other things.
I, I. Sold clothes.
I sold to McCann shoes, but it justseemed like every time I came back
(04:57):
to working in a kitchen and thefirst time I got a Cook's job was
at a uh, Greek restaurant in a mall.
And, uh, the guy says to me, so you knowhow to clean beef tenderloins, right?
And I said, oh yeah,sure, sure, sure, sure.
And, uh, the first day there's a,another dude standing next to me.
We got our cutting boards and a stackof, you know, a case of pismos and I'm
kind of like watching out of the cornerof my eye to see how he's doing it.
(05:20):
And I'm trying to mimic what he's doing.
And I think like there was moremeat than silver skin in the
garbage can at, at that first one.
I mean, I just hacked the shit out of it.
I seem to learn really, really fast.
And the thing that struck me was thesense of community in the kitchen.
Like that's the first thing that reallypulled me in was this kind of idea of
(05:40):
the island of misfit toys where, youknow, it didn't matter where you came
from, what you did, uh, that as longas you could hold down your station and
work hard, um, you, you were accepted.
And so, absolutely.
That's kind of the thing that, thatrelational connection to me has been the
thing that's always driven my career.
I never really thought I had this ideaof like a specific type of cuisine
(06:01):
that was gonna be Adam or, or, youknow, trying to be avant garde or,
uh, trying to be ahead of the curve.
Although when I moved to South Floridathat were a group of us, uh, that were
following the Mango Gang, which was, youknow, Alan Susser and Norma Van Aiken,
and we were kind of like the ascendant.
Group of chefs.
And so that's when Floridian cuisine wasreally hot and stuff like that, so Right.
Um, got in the middle of that, but italways came down to like the crew, like
(06:26):
feeling part of the crew and feelingwhat that was like to go through.
I. Hell and high water through ashift only to find out at the end that
there was, there were no bring backs.
It was a perfect score.
And you look around at one anotherand you go, wow, did we just do that?
Because there's always that one moment inthis shift in the peak point where like
time compression just comes and everythingslows down, and you feel like right on
(06:50):
the edge of everything going sideways.
And somehow it's always the teamthat pulls us through, right?
And so,
I've been motivated by that type ofpassion and compassion all through
my career, and it's been a, a laborof love and it's, the industry has
given me so much opportunity, uh,to learn and to experiment and to be
(07:15):
different versions of myself becauseI was very focused on becoming the
Apex predator in the Punch Bowl from.
From where I grew up in Hammond,Indiana, I understood that if I
wanted to be a chef, I had to kindof hop jobs CAE City, south Chicago.
If I was gonna get up in the city,that's where I could be a chef.
(07:35):
And, uh, I got, as far asCAE City before, uh, before I
like, just was shaking my head.
I was a sous chef at a, at a countryclub and, uh, the executive chef was a
woman and she decided to visit upon meevery slight, every ill that had been.
She had had to suffer.
So I was basically the emotional whippingpost for the entire group of men.
(07:59):
And I learned very, very early onthat um, having the feminine in
the kitchen is a really good thing.
Like it provides balance in so many ways.
And so every very, my very firstexecutive chef job, my sous chef
was, uh, a woman and she saved myass from getting fired several times.
(08:19):
And she said, we had a goodbye cardfor me after a year and a half.
And she said to me, lamb, you know, youweren't a very good chef when you started,
uh, but you turned into a pretty good one.
And coming from Lori Walker,I took that high praise man.
For sure.
Simon (08:32):
That's good stuff.
You know, I, I listened to that and I go,and I just remember somebody I, I, I was
talking to not too long ago, say to me,you know, kitchen, kitchens in some ways.
Especially back in the day where likethe last true meritocracy, right?
Yep.
It's like everything.
It doesn't matter if you had green.
(08:53):
Well, no, it didn't matter if you hadgreen hair or if you had a mohawk or
nowadays it's like you got piercings,you got tattoos, whatever that is.
It, it really, it's like kick ass inthe kitchen, you know, and, and kick
ass on your station and keep it clean.
You're gold, you know?
(09:13):
Uh, talk about like the perfect score.
I worked in a steakhouse back, gosh, sothat was, yeah, mid nineties and the, it
was all wood fire back when I, it wasn't,that wasn't, um, I. It wasn't as popular.
Right.
And instead of being this sort of, the,the, the more shallow grates, these grates
(09:34):
were, oh, they were easily 32 inches deep.
So you, you had long tongs and youwere reaching back over a fire to get
that like well done back in the corner.
You know, you also had a bein Maria
Adam (09:45):
of ice water to stick your hand in, right?
Oh,
Simon (09:47):
yes.
Oh, yes.
And you had, you had the big ingredientbins at your feet with soaked wood.
So you were, so it was s smokey.
Mm-hmm.
And you couldn't see because you wereconstantly creating that, like you're
trying to cool temper that fire witha piece of wood so that you get some
smoke and really get everything going.
And at the end of the night, you know,you'd, you'd, you'd be cla if you were
(10:09):
on the grill, you'd be clamoring to the,to the chef or to the sous chef to say.
What, like how to do Oh, well you,right, you had, 'cause they wouldn't
in the middle of service, you'dnever, you'd never know because we
were just moving too fast, you know?
Um, and I'll never forget, I was one daythe, the grill cook, he had a rough one
and I just looked at the guy standing nextto me and I was the guy who was sauce and
(10:32):
plates and remember timbo of rice, right?
Pack in the rice, a littlebutter inside that cup
and.
Adam (10:44):
Right.
The confetti on the rim, that wasback in the day with the timbo.
Oh
Simon (10:47):
man.
This, this was, this was onestep removed from that because
we had nothing on the plate.
Right.
There was no garnish.
It was a steakhouse.
We plated everything in the window.
So the plates were lightning hot.
And you, your, the inside of yourforearms were just scars constantly.
Yeah.
It was years before Igot rid of those things.
Um.
(11:08):
And so I, I just, I thoughtI had the easy job, right?
I'm the sauce guy.
I make sauces.
I know how to learn howto do that, and it's cool.
And I said to the, the guy sort ofin the middle, you know, he was,
he helped plate and everything.
I was like, man, I, I don'tknow if I could do that.
And this son of a bitch turns to thechef at after service and he goes,
(11:29):
Simon doesn't think he could grill.
So I walk in the next day,it's a Wednesday night, and
I, I, there you go, man.
You know, I, I shook hands with the chef.
Said, good afternoon, sir. And he said,good afternoon, you're on the grill today.
I was like, what?
I turned and I look at Tony.
I was like, what did you do?
Like you're the only person I said that.
He's like, he's like, well, I just toldhim that you didn't think you had it.
(11:51):
And so I'd never worked that grill.
I'd worked multiple grills throughoutthe previous four or five, six years and.
At the end of the night, I turned andI looked, and he goes, if it wasn't
for the fact that the other guy wouldcry every day, if he didn't get to
be on the grill, I'd put you on thegrill because there was less drama.
And like, right.
(12:12):
You, you just did it.
And you were so scared to screwup that you didn't, you just, you
were, you were like a machine.
And I was like, thank you.
He goes, now get back to your station.
I don't know about you, but I did notget into the restaurant business to spend
all my time in a cramp little office.
I love being in thekitchen, out on the floor.
(12:34):
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(12:54):
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Best part is you don't have tospend time digging through your
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If you're interested, go totheir website, use starfish.
(13:15):
com that's U S E starfish.
com and tell them Simon sent you.
Adam (13:21):
You know that you bring up a great point, man, that you know, that
fear of fucking up, you know, is canserve you really, really well, man.
Because now all of a sudden, like, I thinkjust like anything else, man, once we
start getting complacent and comfortable,that's when the trouble starts.
I. But as long as we're likeapproaching things with a certain
amount of, uh, you know, I, I wouldreplace probably fear with reverence.
(13:44):
I was thinking about our conversationtoday and, uh, one of the things
that kept popping up in my headwas this idea of presence, right?
Like what makes a great chef?
Um, and we can talk about, you know,leadership and all this other stuff,
but I think really what separatesthe good from the Great is this
idea of being completely present inthe moment, whether they're within.
Mm-hmm.
Or whether they're with, youknow, building a dish or where
(14:05):
they're out with the guests.
You know, they're, they're like, nothingelse exists except for that moment, right?
Yeah.
Everything's passes going all around them.
But if they can just be presentin that one moment, I, an, uh,
opportunity to, to do that.
During Covid, there was a server who waslike on the verge of breakdown and we were
walking back and forth in this hallwayand I just stopped her and I said, listen,
(14:26):
I just need you to just let it all out.
I, you know.
I gotcha.
And people were walking past andI'm like, I don't care about them.
Like, I didn't care about whetherservice was starting or anything.
Like for me, the most important thingin that moment was being there for her.
Like it didn't end up that I, that wesolved anything or that it, you know,
that it made her feel any better.
(14:46):
But I think in that one moment shegot that I was willing to listen to
her regardless of whether I had a,like, um, a solution for her or not.
It was kind of like.
Bringing me back to this idea of like,when we can have that presence in every
moment of our day, man, the great day.
Simon (15:05):
Yeah.
You know, I think, I think for me, likeI, I, I had a time in my sous chef career,
you know, it was probably four or fiveyears long where I was this spazz man.
Like, things would hit me in theface and I'd be like, oh my God.
You know, like the sky is falling and.
(15:26):
I had a chef who.
He had moments of zen-like clarity.
He didn't have a lot of them'cause he was pretty high.
You know, he had come from one, hecome from one of those cultures, right?
That, and I had spent time in the samecompany, but one of those cultures where
um, it was openly said that like, ifyou're brilliant, asshole is tolerated.
(15:50):
Right?
Yeah.
And so and so the nuclearwould come to him pretty fast.
Like he'd be calm, he'd be calm,he'd be like the, and he was a tall
dude, he's probably six three, right?
Bald head.
He was a swimmer, so he hadshoulders wide as as Kansas.
And he just had this hay, had a presence.
And there was moments where I would justbe like, how are you so calm right now?
(16:14):
Like, how do you do that?
And.
He, you know, but then he would justrock past that and just go into like the
screaming, yelling, like pulling out.
Harry didn't have, yeah.
And I asked him one dayand he said, Simon, if you.
Are committed to success, you'll, youwill quickly see that the, the attitude,
(16:37):
the demeanor, the fear, all those thingsthat, that, that are on the face of
your team is a direct mirror of you.
So if you can stay calm,they can stay calm.
And I said, how come you can't stay calm?
He said, I just, I, I, I try.
He goes, I really try.
He goes, and I know I have somegood moments, but I, I just, shit.
(16:59):
And I was like, okay, I got it.
And it took me a few years toget past that experience, right?
Like just a couple more kitchens andall of a sudden I had someone say.
Tonight was kind of crazy.
How, how are you so calm?
And I thought, oh my, I did it.
And I, and I really think you're right.
It's, it's being clear about exactlywhere you are in that moment and what
(17:24):
is best for my, I stopped thinking aboutmyself and I started thinking about my
team more and how they were reacting tomy spas or, or my lack of spas, you know?
And now, now I tell people.
Hey man, I want you to bethe eye of the hurricane.
I want you to be that calm centerwhere everything around you is
(17:47):
just flying outta control, butyou're calm and, and thinking.
I. What next steps are so thatyou can direct that craziness,
Adam (17:58):
you know?
Sure.
Yeah.
Because there's a way to harnessthat energy that's happening
all around you and direct it.
Yeah.
But never gonna be from a point of youbeing that excited and energetic Right.
To drop to your knowing andgo, okay, so this is where it's
gonna go, and how do I get there?
Um, you know, I'll bet any amountof money that, that night when you
were on that fir on that grill,that first time, you were absolutely
(18:20):
present, everything that was going on.
You knew everything was on, likethere was nothing that was gonna
carry your attention away from them.
Simon (18:27):
Well, and the other part was the, the guy who was normally
on the grill was on my station andhe was stuck and he was, he was.
Half coaching, half heckling me.
He's like, come on, little boy.
Come on little boy.
You can do it.
But he was also digging me a littlebit here and there, you know?
Sure.
Um, and so I was determined.
(18:49):
I was like, well, Iknow how to cook steaks.
I'm just afraid right now.
'cause this is a bigger, thisis a bigger pond, you know?
I mean, and this was a place thatwas doing in the nineties was doing
64 ounce double bone and rib chops.
Those are massive.
Dude, that's a, that's a, that's somethingyou make for Sunday dinner, you know?
Adam (19:10):
Yeah.
And the thing about solidwood fuel man, is that.
That grill's got a life of its own man.
There's the hot spots and the coolspots and you know, it changes with
like every log you throw in there.
So if you're not like watchingeverything and like figuring it out
constantly, it's a constant evolutionof like, where am I going now?
What's happening over here?
Like, where am I gonna move?
And so a completely differentfrom any other type of fuel.
(19:32):
And there is certainly an art.
There are a couple restaurants out.
Uh.
Out in, uh, California, like, uh, Iwas out where they filmed the movie.
Um, the movie Sideways.
The Wine movie.
Simon (19:45):
Yep, yep, yep.
Remember?
Uh, that's Ojai.
No.
Um, sorry.
No Robles.
That's Passa Robles.
Adam (19:52):
No, it's, yeah.
Uh, LOOC.
Uh, Buin.
Right.
There you go.
So there's a couple restaurants rightoutside of Builtin that are these huge
warehouses, um, that use those huge.
I mean, the grate itself ishanging from the ceiling.
You can lift it up and liftit down over the Oh, wow.
And these guys, these three guys, justbecause there's a glass window there and
(20:14):
you can sit and watch these guys work.
It's mesmerizing, dude.
I mean, it's just like those guys areworth every penny that they get paid.
'cause it, it comes out the product.
And to your point, plates are clean.
There's nothing on it.
It's just like, here's yourbeauty right there, man.
Fantastic stuff,
Simon (20:30):
man.
That was the, the space where the filetwould sit on the toast round and if
it bled through the toe, if there wasblood on the plate, you were replating.
Adam (20:40):
Yeah.
Simon (20:40):
Oh,
Adam (20:41):
I mean, today, I, and again, folks actually know that they
gotta let that stuff rest, right?
Let it rest before you played it.
Please.
Simon (20:50):
Uh, I learned those lessons.
Boy, I learned those lessons, youknow, and, and, and I, I, I, as at the
end of my tenure there, I was, I wasconfident enough in, uh, in plating that
I would look at the chef and go, Hey.
Like, for some reason he didn't get those,those two ribeyes on, and now they need to
(21:12):
rest, so we're gonna do that next again.
He's like, no, I want that.
I'm like, no chef, because if I doit, I'm, I'm gonna do it three times.
I'm gonna plate it three timesinstead of just giving you what
you want the first time and out.
And, you know, he, the,thankfully the chef and I were.
We were pretty good friends, right?
And so he, he, he learned that Iwas growing really quickly and, you
(21:34):
know, um, but after like two yearsof that I was like, okay, I gotta go.
I like, that was an, that wassuch an intense environment.
I wanted to learn more about food.
Um.
I think for me, like those were dayswhen I couldn't get a pan in my hand.
I'd walk in and they'd see grill cook,uh, and I was just stuck on the grill.
(21:56):
I started lying, right?
Like, what do you do?
I'm a saute cook, you know?
And the first time I did thatwas rough, but I, I learned, you
know, I was like, uh, I am like,uh, I'm just a little rusty.
Uh, you know?
Right, right.
Exactly.
The cook training mewould, would show me and.
Um, I mean, I was in Albuquerque,New Mexico in the nineties.
(22:16):
It wasn't exactly a food mecca, you know?
Sure.
Um, there's a couple places, but
Adam (22:22):
man, um, I like.
If I could just round backto that first experience.
Yes, sir. Working a Greek restaurant.
You know, I, I learned a lot there.
Um, and one of the things that I learnedhad nothing really to do with cooking,
but the owner, uh, about 10 45 everymorning would tell me, okay, load up
the griddle, uh, with liver and onions.
(22:43):
And I'm like, what?
Now?
You gotta understand liver andonions was not on the menu.
But he had me do tire, you know,36 inch griddle with liver and
onions right before the doors open.
And after a couple of times Isaid, well, if we're, this is not
on the menu, why are we doing it?
He said, did you ever smell itoutside in the, in the hallway?
(23:05):
And I'm like, no.
So then he had me go out intothe hallway in this mall.
And as a walking past, you know, you don'treally know if it's liver and onion, like
all you know is you start salivating.
And that's how he would getpeople ice to come in to have.
And I'll tell you, man, I remember that20 years later when I was at a seafood
restaurant in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.
And what I would do is right at thehostess stand, I would put, uh, a, uh, a
(23:30):
little burner with a pot of oil and herbs,you know, rosemary, garlic, that, and
on a, just on a slow burn and have thatkinda waft while people walked in, man.
That's, that's really cool.
Like when you can startexciting those senses.
That's, I was reflecting onthis the other day as well.
I was like, when you're in thekitchen, like you have to use
(23:50):
every single one of your senses.
Like you can't have earbuds in 'causeyou gotta listen to shit in the pan.
You know, you can't like, yeah.
Every single sense of yours,it's heightened and it becomes
developed in such a way thatyou can s you can tell when.
You could see a pan and know thatsomething's not happening, right,
because you can't hear it or youcan't see it in a particular way.
And I think a lot of us don'treally, don't really give ourselves
(24:13):
credit for the hypersensitivitythat we become accustomed to.
Like that is part of what we do, sothat when we go out into the real world
or the other world, uh, to take a jobsomewhere else, our sensors are like,
well, what do you want me to do now, man?
Simon (24:31):
Yeah.
I mean, being able, when you startto understand that, like something
that sauteing has a higher pitchwhen it's starting to burn.
Mm. Right.
Um, and it took me a while tofigure that one out and I learned
it with mushrooms and so Oh yeah.
The
Adam (24:46):
tweak this
Simon (24:48):
week, so Right.
So when all the, when allof the moisture goes out.
Basically what happens is when whenyou boil all the moisture out of the
mushroom, now it's just frying, right?
And it makes a different pop.
And I, and when Ilearned that, I was like.
I was like, I started like turning upthe heat on mushrooms to listen to 'em.
(25:10):
Right.
And then, so now I'll be at home,you know, and I'll be cooking and
maybe I'll like, uh, that's got afew minutes and I'll walk around
the corner into the living room.
And now it's like, oh wait, I canhear the, the tone has changed.
Time to go back.
And, and the first time I did that, Ithink in a professional kitchen, somebody
looked at me like, how did you do that?
I'm like, listen to it.
It's, it's gonna tell you the story.
(25:33):
Yeah, right.
Exactly.
Yeah.
You know, you also, like, I learned it onthe flat top too, because like this one
cook liked to cook at, like, he would,he was scared of making mistakes, so
he would turn the flat top down to like3 40, 3 50, and I'm like, that thing
needs to be ripping at like four 50.
Like, otherwise you don't get the series.
(25:53):
Like, no, no, I overcooked things.
Then
Adam (25:55):
there's no caramelization, there's no mal.
I'm, I'm
Simon (25:57):
like, no, no, no.
You have to, you haveto be a better timer.
Then I said, wait longer to fire things.
He's like, what?
It, what?
I'm like, Hey, man.
Like, like slow is smooth.
Smooth is fast.
Don't, don't, don't equatefast with, with good.
Right, right.
(26:17):
You know, it'll, it'll.
Adam (26:20):
Yeah, but to your point, stage it all, like now you've got your proteins
sitting in front of you and now you'reall just waiting for a pickup and
then it's bang go instead of like,I, you know, I see kitchens that, uh,
employ KDS systems and they don't,um, split their tickets up by station.
So every ticket goes to everystation, and what I see happen is the
(26:40):
cooks will get ahead of themselvesand start firing stuff without.
Really firing it inorder to make it come up.
And um, you know, you see some reallycrazy stuff on the grill where these
guys are just hammering this meat justto get it out in under 15 minutes when
in fact that's probably an unrealisticexpectation for a 16 ounce prime ribeye.
(27:04):
You know what I'm saying?
Like that is not doingthat meet any justice.
So I like there was a place inFort Lauderdale that, uh, seafood
re the same seafood restaurant.
Yeah, I had the only printer as an expo.
Nobody else had any tickets andI had seven stations and we did
750 to a thousand covers a night,and we never missed a beat.
But you get to be really, really good atcalling out stations and, and pick up.
(27:26):
Now you might need, you know, threebusboy behind you to boost trays
because it's coming out so fast.
But you know, you'd getting todictate windows and stuff, but
it really start to appreciate.
How long it actually takes to saute a pan.
Scallops, you know, versusgrowing a piece of fish.
And when that's, now it's trying topick up, because our job is to make
(27:47):
sure that that food is at the heightof perfection, not only from a raw
state, but also from a cook stateat the time to get it to the table.
Because after that, there's declining.
Uh, benefit to like, now it's sittingin the plate now, now the juice is
pooling, like for, especially for scalps.
So it's a real art form that Ithink, again, um, not a lot of people
(28:07):
appreciate and I don't think wegive ourselves enough credit for.
Simon (28:11):
Yeah.
Adam, I love how when you and I talklike you, you strike such deep things
in my brain and I wanna completelyshift gears and talk about exactly
what you just said, which is.
In today's world, and I want anybodywho's listening or watching out there
to understand that KDS is more, moreprevalent than it ever has been before.
(28:35):
Kitchen display system, it screensinstead of tickets and it's taking away
some of the art of expediting, right?
We're we're seeing more things getsplit up onto things and I think that
my point that I wanna make here is.
It needs to be clear in the mindsof the proprietors, the owners, the
chefs, the, the gen, the dining roommanagers, that this is a new art, right?
(29:01):
This is a new skill.
Designing a menu that comes througha KDS system and that that is
coordinated and comes togetheris a completely different thing.
And yeah.
I don't think that everybodyrealizes that when they, when they
get their fancy new technology.
'cause everybody's excitedabout this shit and I love it.
Right?
Sure.
Like I, I was a part of a teamthat converted seven restaurants
(29:26):
in three months to KDS.
Mm-hmm.
But the first ones were tough, man.
The first one, it was like, oh, okay.
And you had to find new ways ofdoing things because all of a sudden
each cook, like in this place,each cook had only their stuff.
Adam (29:43):
Yeah.
Right.
Which is the way should, and so we
Simon (29:45):
did some things.
Yes, we did some things where we, weaudited the menu a little bit, edited
the menu a little bit so that therewas, if there was anything that was
really long, we were looking for waysthat we could, without sacrificing
quality speed up production.
You know, and we still had them.
We still had like you have if beeffajitas and they want 'em all done.
(30:07):
Well then, um, that it was theresponsibility of that cook to
scream down to the other side andgo, Hey, just wait on table 61.
I don't know what you'redoing, but I'm not there yet.
I'll give you five and atfive everything can go flying
forward, you know, but I think.
I think it's really important tounderstand that how technology
(30:29):
is changing what we old guyshave done for decades, right?
It's not the same, it'snot the same madness.
It's a new madness.
Adam (30:38):
Yeah.
I, I couldn't agree with you more, Simon.
Uh, the first thing I, Iguess I wanna say is I'm a big
proponent of technology, right?
Mm-hmm.
I think that there is a, a place.
Uh, for it in all our operations.
And my rule of thumb is, is if itwill provide me more opportunity
to be front facing to the guest,then I will, I'll look at that.
(31:00):
But if it takes me more time to beingin the office, I don't want to know.
So, to your point about KDS, I thinkeven in the best of times, like
when it went from, you know, expoonly having to the printer, now,
now every station has a printer.
I think the same thing applies from KDS.
I don't think KDS.
Which is an incredibly dynamic system,and to your point, needs some adjustment.
(31:21):
I don't think that that means thatyou go without a fucking expediter.
I think the expediter is even moreessential then because all you're doing
is letting the cooks know that they'vegot 12 chicken all day on their station.
Right?
That's probably thebest thing that it does.
Now you can look down and you can seeone of the problems with KDS is if you.
Have, um, say most pantrystations also have their dessert
(31:44):
stations incorporated to that.
Well, if you've got three, six tops andfour, two tops and all you've got, you're
looking at this window and all you've gotis salads and stuff showing, and all of
a sudden you've got desserts that pop up.
I. The expectation is the dessert shouldgo out before the six top goes out
because you don't want that two top.
So there's that nuance where anexpeditor can actually be helping
(32:05):
the guys going, okay, wait a second.
If you scroll, like clickthrough your screen.
There's one at the bottom.
We need to get that out first.
So I don't think it's, um.
I think it's a great addendum too, butI, I think anybody who thinks that they
shouldn't have an expeditor is missingpoint because again, there's all kinds
of garnish, there's all kinds of, uh,sauces and stuff that need to happen,
(32:25):
and really a high, high value expoperson can take care of a lot of that,
and it shouldn't necessarily only belike an assistant manager front of the
house manager who's doing it becausehe's got extra time on his hands.
This needs to be a right.
Position that's very well thoughtout and valued because it can
make or break a lot of operations.
Simon (32:45):
Yeah.
Just from food point standpoint, Imean, we, we had, I worked for a company
for, for a while and it was a shortwindow, but boy, it was a neat one.
And they turned the expo into the fq,which was the food quality specialist,
and it was kind of an interesting thing.
Sure.
It was a, wasn't quite afull big corporate move.
(33:06):
Um, but it, it.
They, they loved it and then theystarted looking at the additional
labor that we were incurring.
'cause we weren't, we weren'tjust bringing in a, an
experienced bus boy to do it.
Right.
Like, that's what a Sure, that'swhat a lot of times happens.
You get on the outside of an,you get an expo and he's, he's
like the best bus boy, right.
A food runner.
(33:26):
I'm a best food runner.
Um, and so what we were doing was reallytaking guy, guys and gals who were
line supervisor, junior sous, chef,qual, like they were good cooks, right?
And I used it as a lever because I couldgo and then take that expo position over.
When things got deep, and I could sendthat cook in, I could send that person
(33:48):
into the line and go here, dig them out.
Or I could get back behind theline and talk directly to that
person and help dig, right?
Adam (33:56):
Well, we used, we used to call that the hammer in the anvil, right?
So you've got that one that's afloater in the on the line, and
you're like, directing, okay, godown a saute because we're back.
Like, and you're not, you'reproviding assistance to that
leverage in that particular point.
And I think, uh, that food quality thing.
What a great benefit.
Like I'm saute cook, I've been gettingthem shit kicked outta me for three
(34:16):
weeks straight and I get to go do expo.
I get to do food quality one night.
Like it's an additional benefit wecan provide our cooks and I, I mean,
the implication is that that personknows there's, knows the food so well.
Not only their station,but all the stations.
They have the critical eye andskill to be able to look at stuff
and know if it's right or not.
(34:37):
And I think that's a great acknowledgementfor somebody who, you know, has been
in the trenches and has an opportunityto like just take a breath and to your
point, you know, gets in the weeds.
That time compression whereeverything gets slammed.
I. I opened up a restaurant in the, ina movie theater in Boca Raton, Florida.
The very first time a full servicerestaurant was in a movie theater, 16 inch
loves seats in these balconies, and therewas like 150 seats in the bistro, and then
(35:01):
another 150 seats in the back, more formaldining room, and then some other stuff.
We used to do the concessions,but every night was like.
You got people who've got a place to go,they sit down, they come in late, okay, my
movie starts at eight, can I get my food?
Like, we had to go throughthat every single night.
And I remember quite clearly,man, 7 45 1 night on a Saturday,
(35:22):
I just let the machine run.
I mean, the tickets were just, theywere piling up on the floor because
we just needed a minute to regroup.
And this is like 10 guys on the line,on five stations, and they're beat nasa.
We need two expos, four foodrunners, because again, there's
a time compression now and then.
20 minutes later, it's deadquiet in the kitchen and you
know it's gonna ramp up again.
(35:42):
So that opportunity to giveeverybody a break and a breather,
I think is really important, man.
Simon (35:47):
Oh yeah, the, the master reset button is, is key.
I, I learned that from gettingcrushed at this one seafood
restaurant here in Seattle.
Just, and what I learned to do was makeeye contact with my favorite busboy
and go, and I'd make the kind of a,like the, the drinking, uh, gesture.
(36:08):
And he'd go and grab a full tray of.
Of cups for the, for thekitchen and fill 'em with water.
And then he'd let me know thathe was there and he'd, he'd come
down the I'd say, okay, come on.
And he'd just walk down theline handing out waters.
And I would make everybodystop for 30 seconds.
And it was usually when we werejust getting just destroyed.
(36:30):
And the first time that happened,the GM looked at me and she
said, what are you doing?
Why are you stopping?
I was like, because we're not,
we're, we're, we're like,not machine spitting
out, you know, we're, we're in the, we're in the, we're in the
chavelle ss just burning our tires, man.
We're not going anywhere.
Like everybody's sputtering.
Everybody's like stupid right now.
(36:52):
So I would make, I would make thesaute cook just turn off its burners.
Like it's you.
Take your shit out like on the grill.
Grab a sheet pan, put everythingon that sheet pan for 30 seconds.
Drink your water all the way down.
Hand the cup back toJimmy, and then, okay.
Are you ready?
Sweet.
First three tickets.
(37:13):
Next three tickets, next three tickets.
And, and then that last service wouldgo and everybody would high five.
And we would, we would slay it and thenget ready for the nine o'clock rush.
Adam (37:23):
This comes, this comes right back to like the, the underlying theme
of the things that we were talkingabout, like the chef as leader, right?
To be able to have.
That presence of mind are likegoing, we are on the verge, man.
We are the, like the car is tippingover on two wheels right now.
And if I don't pull back, not in a crazyway, like not like, ah, damn, I can't, no.
(37:43):
Just to be able to pullback just for a few moments.
And to your point, it justtakes a moment to, to reset.
And everybody goes, what?
Right.
Okay.
And then they double down in their effort.
But if we're not theones leading emotionally.
Everybody's keying on us.
What is he gonna lose his shit now?
Like, do I need to lose my shit or no?
Like, no, dude, we're justgonna have a glass of water now.
(38:04):
That's all we're gonna do.
Simon (38:04):
No, uh, I, I've, I've, since those days, and that was probably 15 years ago,
I've realized that it restores humanity.
Adam (38:14):
Sure it does.
It is
Simon (38:15):
really what it does.
It really restores you stop being that.
A machine or that robotfor the, for the business.
And you are, you're a cook.
And it's hard, you know?
And, and I think that once I learnedthat, I started teaching it, and I
saw it happen a couple times wherethe sous chef would just be like.
(38:38):
Get some water, get some water,you know, get, get cups of water.
Like, like he was scared to do it.
And I saw him do it andhe's like, everybody drank.
We're like, it was the end of astupid lunch rush in a, in a really
busy downtown, like the Amazon,you know, Amazon is right above us.
And like, oh, they were tough boy.
They, they were demanding folks, but he,he was like, you know, I remember I, I
(39:00):
showed up and I was a multi-unit at thetime, so I showed up at the end of lunch
and he's like, I did the reset thing.
Like whispered to me, he's like, I did it.
I'm like, how'd it go?
He's like, so good.
Everybody thanked me, including,including the, the, the expo and
the food runners who were confused.
They were just, they had an opportunityto like clear the window of things
that were there and get, and theyweren't being pushed and, and overrun.
(39:25):
You know, it's such a weird thingthat, to think that 45 seconds
to a minute can do that, but itreally, I think it's, I think it's.
Adam (39:35):
It's hurt.
Listen, when, when you, when yousaid it restores humanity, that hits
something in my heart because, youknow, I've been that person on the line.
And when you start to feellike a machine, like you start
off like, yeah, I'm a machine.
Yeah, man.
But then after a while, man, you'relike, like, like the fuck, man.
I'm not a machine.
I'm a goddamn like da da da.
And you start to reallydo that dance of like.
(39:58):
Losing your shit walking off theline, just like whatever it is.
And in those moments, they don't comevery often, but when those moments come,
to have someone who's gonna restorethe humanity with a glass of water or a
reset or just wait to call tickets forfor a minute or whatever that is, brings
me back to like, no, this is something,this is something I do because I love
and, um, and restoring my humanityreconnects me to the reason why I love it.
(40:23):
Right, because like I said, Igot into it for the humanity.
I got in it for the connection.
I got into it for like the bonds thathappen under, under intense pressure.
You know, that that idea ofperturbation where pressure,
pressure, pressure, pressure,that's how a piece of coal becomes
a piece of, uh, you know, a diamond.
But that perturbation can onlylast so long before there's a
release or be becomes an explosion.
(40:45):
And so to your point, I think, uh.
That comes from wisdom, that comes frommaturity, that comes from experience,
comes from being there and, um, it's,um, I think it's a perspective, uh,
that many more people should share.
Simon (41:03):
Yeah, I mean, I think, I think the one for me that really, like, as
I've gotten older, I start to realize.
In inciting a little bit offear and creating a a a a
pressure cooker environment.
It only works to a certain point andI start, I've now started to think
(41:24):
about it like the tachometer in my car.
There's a red line there.
And up to that point, you cancreate some great stuff, right?
Like you can, you can motivatepeople to go fast and hard, but at
some point, like you hit red lineand then it starts to go down.
And the reality for me is you canonly get people to make great food.
(41:49):
At that red line for a few, for alittle while because at some point,
stressed, cooks don't make better food.
Anxious cooks who are in fear oftheir job don't make better food.
I don't care what anybody says.
Like there's a point.
Yes, you can do it.
And, and we've seen it and, andit's glamorized in on TV sometimes
(42:10):
our buddy Gordon Ramsey has, hasmade a career out of showing that.
Sure.
But that's a shtick.
It and it totally is like, I, I gotto be behind the scenes years ago,
um, on the set of the, the secondseason of Hell's Kitchen, and that
guy was, he was instructing peopleto turn off ovens and turn off a ac
just to turn up the heat on people.
Right, exactly.
(42:30):
So that's show, and I think thatpeople need to understand that.
Right.
But.
There's on, there's a breaking point.
There's a, there's a red line to ahuman's capacity to do great stuff, right?
Under, under that much pressure.
I think that right learning, that'swhy, you know, people are being
(42:52):
nicer and kinder and, and I thinkhopefully more focused on standards
rather than, than just greatness.
Right.
Because, um.
It is, it is damaging at somepoint to people's psyche.
And we, you've, you've talked aboutit for years, I've talked about it
(43:13):
for years, but I think that remind,remembering that we are human beings
that are actually like trying to dosomething that we are passionate and love.
Right?
Yeah.
And I, I implore people nowadaysto ask themselves, so was that fun?
Because if it wasn't fun, likehow do we make it fun again?
(43:33):
Right.
Yeah.
What's
Adam (43:33):
the point of doing it?
I mean, I like that I always stand bythis, like this industry, um, uh, is hard.
Uh, and that's okay.
It just doesn't have to be harsh.
Yes.
Right?
Yes.
Like the fact that we are held toa higher standard, that, that we
are, you know, asked to do thingswith our mind and body and spirit.
(43:54):
Uh, that push us outside of ourcomfort zone, I think serves us
overall, uh, to, to understand whatresiliency and adaptability might
mean in our personal lives as well.
Like, it's okay that it's hard.
It just doesn't have to be harsh.
Right?
And that's where it comes from.
Like, don't, like don't be an asshole,but don't be a doormat either, right?
Yeah.
And the only way you can bridge thatgap is by manage, like leading with
(44:16):
standards, period, end of story.
Because anything else is just leading bypersonality and then you're up to, well,
to whether I feel good or I feel bad.
So, yeah.
Simon (44:26):
Yeah.
I've been joking recently that Iwanted that my, my first book is
gonna be, Hey, chef, don't Be a Dick
Adam (44:35):
for a while.
For a while in a series of postscalled Don't Be a Dick Like Me.
Simon (44:41):
All right, chef Adam Lamb.
Hey brother.
Uh, as usual con the conversationwith you and I just goes
in, in wonderful directions.
I cannot tell you how much Iappreciate you coming to play in
my little sandbox of the world.
Thank you.
Um.
Tell us how we find you out there in the
Adam (44:59):
Sure.
Um, well, the podcast iscalled Chef Life Radio.
Uh, the website is chef life coaching.com,or you can hit me up on LinkedIn,
uh, where I have a, a presence.
And of course on the other I. Uh, othersites, but primarily in LinkedIn for sure.
DM me.
If, you know, you listen tothe show and you got a kick
out of it, please let us know.
(45:20):
Um, we're always happy for that.
And if you have any questions, youknow, you can call me at (828) 407-3359.
Simon (45:27):
Awesome.
Adam (45:29):
Thank you brother.
So the
Simon (45:29):
rest of you out there, please go leave us a review.
Five stars is amazing.
Heard somebody say recently.
It's either five stars or nothing.
Well, I'll take, I'll take what yougive me, but I'd love five stars.
Uh, you can find this on YouTube.
You can find this on Apple and Spotifyand wherever you get your podcasts.
Thanks for playing.
Thanks for coming to see usand catch on the flip side.
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