August 22, 2022 • 45 mins
207: Chef James Shirley | From the South Side to the Top of the Culinary World 207 1
Do you want to be successful in the culinary industry? You're told to get experience in as many kitchens as possible, but you can't seem to get your foot in the door. If you're feeling stuck and frustrated, this episode is for you.
"I always reach back. I don't look down on people. If I'm looking down, I'm looking down to reach up, to reach my hand out, to pick you up, because I've seen it happen." -James Shirley.
James Shirley is a world-renowned chef who has worked in some of the finest restaurants in the world. He is known for his dedication to his craft and his ability to mentor and coach other culinarians.
This is Chef James Shirley's story...
James Shirley had always been passionate about music, but when he found himself without a place at Gramblan state, he decided to return to Chicago and look for a job. He ended up working in the kitchen of Spiasha, a Northern Italian restaurant. There, he was taught by the executive chef, Anthony J. Montuano. Montuano saw potential in Shirley, even though he was a disaster in the kitchen, eventually making him his sous chef. Shirley went on to have a successful career as an executive chef, breaking stereotypes along the way.
In this episode, you will learn the following:
1. How James Shirley went from the streets of the South Side of Chicago to the shores of Hawaii
2. The demons that James Shirley had to fight along the way
3. How James Shirley became a successful executive chef
Chapter Summaries:
[00:00:04] - In the past, it was easy for an owner to buy his chef a car, get him an apartment or help him with his recreational activities. Now it's more difficult. On this episode of chef life radio, adam lamb and James Shirley will talk about how James Shirley came up in the industry in Chicago and how he went from the south side to the shores of Hawaii.
[00:02:28] - Adam is happy to welcome James Shirley to the show. James got into cooking because he has a strong work ethic based on his family upbringing coming from the south. Adam's mother is Betty Shirley, a world-renowned jazz singer, the famous jazz singer who lives in New Orleans. James worked for the city of Chicago. James got a lot of training and mentorship at Bias. Anthony J. Montano, who is the executive chef and part owner of Spiesho, worked for the Levies. James was the only black guy in the kitchen in a five-star restaurant with no pedigree for a long time. James is happy when he goes on LinkedIn and sees a vast array of people of color at the level of executive chefs. Adam Lam is still working as a sous chef for the city of Chicago. Adam used to cook and call himself Moonlighting. Adam worked at Gordon's and Gordon S. Claire's restaurant in Jupiter, Florida. Adam has worked in some of the finest restaurants in Windy City. Back then, you could get paid what you were worth if you had owners willing to pay that.
[00:17:58] - John's family came from Jackson, Mississippi, Alabama, and New Orleans. His grandparents left the south around the time of Emmett Till's Lynching. They came north and settled in the Bronxville area of Chicago. John didn't have a working functioning relationship with his mother in his early years. John's mom is a product of the Vietnam era, and she sang in New York for a while. Both you and your past have been intertwined for both good and bad reasons. You both had some rough times, and you came through it. You are still heavily involved in the recovery kind of network. You want to make sure that you stand for those people. It's not an attitude usually shared in the hospitality industry.
[00:25:41] - The culinary world is like a pseudo-masochistic relationship. It's like leaving the dungeon and showing up again for the next day. Chefs go through a lot of abuse from their employers, their customers,...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
James Shirley (00:04):
Owners used to dying at other competitors' restaurants to see
who's their cook and would ask them tocome out to the table and undermine.
And underhandedly say,what's this guy paying you.
You know, and they would say,what's this guy paying you and
you'd say, Hey man, he's paying me,you know, how's he treating you?
You know?
(00:24):
And back then it was easy for anowner to buy his chef a car or,
uh, get him over an apartment.
Or helping with his recreationalactivities, you know, uh, it was easy, you
know, I, I can remember I worked somewhereand I won't name him that every new year's
Eve, if we packed a house and got allthe tables fed before midnight, There
(00:50):
was a gram of Coke on the bar, uh, a, aenvelope with $500, a bottle of Dawn or
some taters and a pat on the back saying,man, you guys rocked it out tonight.
Congratulate happy new year, you know, uh,that's the kind of mentality that went on.
You know, you're a rockstar at work.
(01:10):
and you live in the projects andyou go home on the L or something.
And you know, you livein a real shitty world.
And, but at work you're a hero.
You're a legend or you'rea rock star at work.
And you come from an abusive familyand at work you're, you're a God that's
Adam Lamb (01:28):
executive chef.
Brother from anothermother, James Shirley.
And on this episode of chef liferadio, we're gonna be talking about
what it was like to come up in theindustry in Chicago, in the nineties
and how he went from the streets ofthe south side to the shores of Hawaii.
We'll talk about the demons thathe had to fight along the way.
And after the break, you're gonnafind out how you can do the same too.
(01:49):
Doesn't matter where you're at, itonly matters where you're headed.
Stay tuned to find out whatit really takes to succeed.
This is chef life radio, serving chefs,just like you who wanna enjoy their
careers without sacrificing their lives.
I'm your host, Adam Lamb.
And over my 30 year career, as a chefand hospitality, professional, I've
(02:11):
coached and mentored thousands ofArians who led lives of contribution
community and authentic leadership.
Let me be your guide on this journeytogether, looking for solutions and
perspectives to some of the biggest issuesimpacting the hospitality industry, our
lives and our careers today we chef.
And now back to the show, I'dlike to welcome to the show.
(02:34):
Very dear friend.
Executive chef James Shirley, what is up?
My
James Shirley (02:38):
brother, man.
Adam.
It's been a journey, man.
It's so good to see you.
It's so good to
Adam Lamb (02:43):
see you, man.
I'm excited to hear about your journey,you know, because we've, we've stayed
in touch albeit a little bit, youknow, I could own some of that and
say, I could have been a little bitmore present and, and, and reaching
out, but we've managed to somehow stayconnected throughout our entire careers.
And so I'm just tickle todeath that I get to see you.
And you're in the positionyou are because when we first.
(03:04):
You didn't wanna haveanything to do with culinary?
I mean, you were just, it wasa little side hustle to you,
James Shirley (03:08):
right?
It was, I worked for the city of Chicagoand the, the crazy part about how I got
into food is because of my passion formusic because of me being a musician.
Um, I'm a professionally trained musician.
I, I had music in all my life.
My mother's a world renownedjazz singer, famous jazz singer.
For those of you out there who, whoare hipsters and like jazz and blues,
(03:30):
she, she resides in new Orleans.
And her name is Betty Shirley.
And she's sang with justabout everybody on the planet.
And, uh, she resides in new Orleans singsin still she's like 78 and still singing.
She's still singing.
She makes juries she's school teacher,but I got into cooking because I had.
(03:53):
Strong work ethic based on my familyupbringing coming from the south.
And, uh, I was raised by mygrandparents and it was like,
we don't care what you do.
You gonna work, you know, we don't care.
What happens?
You gonna hire your, and, uh, I, Iremember there's, there's some people
that are some baby boomers thatremember the term chores, you know,
you get home, you had chores to do so.
(04:16):
I, I got a job.
I was, uh, I had went to,you know, let me back up.
I went to.
Grammar school, high school, middleschool, marching band, concert
band as band, all city band drum,and played with a lot of artists.
I was really good and, uh, I still playand, uh, I had gotten into rambling state.
(04:36):
And if anybody seen the movie drum line.
I was like Nick and I hada cocky, arrogant attitude.
I took, I went to rambling, Louisianawith a, a suitcase full of clothes
and, and weed and my attitude.
And then I found out real quickly thatI wasn't or tolerated with with that.
And so I was back inChicago before I knew it.
(04:56):
And my band directorreached out for me again.
And then I got into Vander collegeof music, and then I said, well,
you know, who needs music school?
When I.
You know, one of the top drummers inthe city, and I'll soon be playing with
airplane and fire or, you know, Chicago orsome top band, you know, and I'm playing
at nightclubs and stuff at, at a reallyyoung age playing with my band director.
(05:20):
So I walked into SPIAnine 80 north Michigan.
And, uh, one of my classmates wasthe executive steward and uh, he
said, James, what are you doing here?
And I said, man, looking for a job andit's me and one of my childhood friends.
And he says, well, You know, can you cook?
And I said, sure, I could cook.
I can make cheeseburgers and cheeseburgersand you know, I'm good at girl baloney
(05:43):
sandwiches and stuff, and fish sticks,you know, it's like, nah, that's
not quite what this is in detailed.
And before I knew it, I was catapulted.
I was shot out of a cannon into the world.
Uh, the underbelly of IEN fine diningit's nor Northern Italian cuisine.
(06:04):
Next thing.
I know I'm making calamari and we'retaking the acks outta fish to make
Fe I got some real hands on trainingand I was a walking nightmare, a
disaster in the kitchen for many years.
Why, why do you say that?
Well, I walked in the kitchen and.
(06:24):
I got no culinary degree, nopedigree, no culinary experience.
I'm around Johnston and wellgrads I'm around CIA grads.
You know, back in the day, Adam,you've been in Chicago, Washburn trade
school was a big place for cooks to go.
She hospitality.
And you know, here I am, you know, thiskid that I, I didn't know, a spoon from a
(06:45):
calendar, I didn't know a Civ from a OI.
I didn't, you know, and, and I remember.
My first moment of truth was when Iburned four boxes of Pines in a day
and, and those things I remember, andthey just sat and watched, you know,
because they, no one told me that,you know, five minutes, three minutes
(07:09):
topping oven at three 50, you know,nobody told me how much they cost.
Nobody said anything.
And so they just watched me.
Kinda kinda stumble andBumble through the kitchen.
And I was a, you know,the, the kitchen joke.
Adam Lamb (07:22):
Wait, wait, wait, before you go.
I, I don't, I don't mean to interruptyou, but I just wanna make a point about
the fact that, you know, the type oftraining and mentorship that you got
at Bija, you know, that's the way itused to be for in every restaurant.
Right.
And the fact that they allowedyou to burn four boxes of pine
nuts and then say anything iskind of like, yeah, he's gonna.
(07:44):
Now anybody tries to do that.
And you know, there asses out the streetbecause you know how much that costs,
and there is an expense when you haveapprentices, but that type of training,
have you ever burned a Pinenut ever
James Shirley (07:58):
since then?
Never.
And I won't let anybodyelse burn them either.
Cause I know how much it costs, youknow, but, but the most valuable thing.
So I give homage to.
Anthony J Monte, who is the executivechef, uh, and part owner of SPIA
because he bought, he workedfor the levys for a long time.
(08:21):
And, you know, he'sbeen all over the place.
He was on the, he was in the spotlightfor a minute with French chef, uh,
Brad cause Mario Batali and, and TonyTuana and a couple other Italian chefs
were all, uh, kinda sponsors of it.
And it was in the heyday in Chicago.
When, when.
You know, hot cuisine was,was all over the place.
(08:43):
New VE cuisine was all over the place.
If you had a bistro or Victoria orItalian restaurant, or any of those
places were all over the place.
And he, he pulled me in the officeone day and said, guess what?
And I just knew he was gonna fire me.
He says, you know, you're, you'rea train wreck, but you know, I
love the fact you show up every dayand you take the abuse off these.
(09:05):
He said every non-speaking dishwasherI have in my kitchen can probably
out cook my, my best, you know,executive, sewer, sous chef, and
they can't speak a lick English.
He said the fact that you show up everyday and you, you take crap off these
guys, is this a non profanity show?
Cause I might drop the F bomb.
I might, I might drop a few slur.
Adam Lamb (09:26):
No pro dude profanity is encouraged on this show.
We get the big E in front of our name.
We don't give a shit, fuck drop it.
If we
James Shirley (09:34):
wanna says you're about dumb as a bag of rocks, but the rest of
those assholes in the kitchen, I, I I'dhave you work any day, you know, uh, over
them because you know, you take a lotof crap off of them and, uh, You know,
the inevitable happened, uh, somebodycalled off and that happens in our world.
(09:54):
Somebody's demise is somebody'ssuccess in our world.
And so somebody screwed up,didn't make their shift.
And next thing you know, I was sauteingin the cafe and he asked me, James, you
wanna, I'm gonna throw you in the cafe.
You're gonna saute.
I couldn't say it.
Let alone pronounce itor spell it at the time.
I didn't know how I didn't have a clue.
(10:15):
What sauteing.
So before I knew it, I was making,you know, Cario plates and partio
and VGAs and O Buco and BU,and my vernacular had changed.
And I didn't, I, you know, I hadalways had language at school
and I think led to another man.
(10:36):
And, uh, before I knew.
I was, uh, I was a roundsman.
I was a first to not, I was working forthe Levy's at several properties and,
uh, I got good at it, you know, and,uh, and I, and I had to deal with the
other, the other pink elephant in theroom, you know, I'm the only black guy
in the kitchen in, in a five star, uh,restaurant, you know, uh, with no PED.
(11:00):
You know, and, and that, and that, thatexisted then, and it still kind of exists
now to some degree, you know, I'm, I'mreally ecstatic when I go on LinkedIn and
I, and I see a vast array of people ofcolor at the level of executive chefs.
And beyond that, Who have broken thoseglass ceilings and, and got past the
(11:20):
stereotypical male European dominatedindustry of I'm French, I'm Austrian,
I'm German, I'm Italian, I'm from someforeign I'm from somewhere in Europe.
And now I'm an executive chef and you'resupposed to bow down to me, you know?
So, uh, we, we, we brokenthose, those stereotypes, man.
And, and I always, you know, I'mhumbled and grateful where the universe.
(11:46):
Has sent me and where, where theGod of my own understanding has
placed me in, in doing what I do.
And so I always reach back.
I don't look down on people.
Uh I'm if I'm, if I'm looking down,I'm looking down to reach up, to
reach my hand out, to pick you up,you know, because I've seen it happen.
You know, I've had a woman sous chef.
(12:06):
And she was, she was a killer.
She was a beast man as African Americansister, who I made my sous chef.
And couldn't nobodyunderstand why did I do that?
Because she car.
You know, at the end of the day,do you care about the product you
put out what you do, how you do it?
I don't care where you come from,what walk alive, what pedigree, you
(12:27):
know, uh, I'd rather have somebodythat shows up to work on time in a
clean APR, in a cold the uniform.
And they, they could be the worstthing under the sun color wise in
the kitchen, but it is the attitude.
And Tony told me, he said,you got the heart of a lion.
He said, one day, you'll be good at.
And I didn't take it seriously.
And, uh, I worked for the city ofChicago for a lot of years and I
(12:50):
cooked and I, and I called myselfmoonlighting until I ran up on this
cat name, Adam Lamb, who said, man,you're good at this, you know, on this.
Guy with a mulling and a longponytail and gun GOE and real hip.
And you know, the swashbuckler inthe kitchen, you know, and said,
(13:12):
man, you ought to, you ought to be,you ought to take this serious, you
know, Shirley dog, you good at this?
And so here I am,
Adam Lamb (13:19):
that was my very first exec, uh, uh, sous chef job at Dick, you know,
true one, you know, in an operationthat's yeah, that's in an operation.
That's doing, you know, theysaid they suspect it to do
2.8 million the first year.
I think they did like 18.
I mean, we were doing, we weredoing dishes in the parking
lot that God place was so busy.
Of course, that was 1986.
(13:40):
They bears had just won the super bowl.
And Bob's your uncle.
Here you are.
You're still working for the cityof Chicago, you know, it's funny.
Cause you say, I, I always thoughtthat you were moonlighting because you
know, you had that expensive habit.
That car, yours.
Yeah.
James Shirley (14:01):
And, uh, I, I had this Delta, a eight Royal bro
that my grandfather took me toHanley Dawson Cadillac to buy.
And anybody that's from Chicago thatcan go back in their time machine.
They'll remember Hanley Dawson Cadillac.
So I'm kind, I'm kind ofpredated myself too as well.
So, but it was all, you know,Han Dawson Cadillac was down the
(14:24):
street from Dickers because it was.
Uh, around the corner on lasalI believe either on Ohio or off
of lasal or something like that.
And they were next to ma Murray majors,sporting goods and stuff like that.
So I got this car and, you know,I had went through my first car.
And, um, you know, I was like, okay, I,I got a real automobile, you know, and
(14:49):
it was tricked out with tinted windowsand opera lights and, you know, uh,
had the, uh, Jensen speakers and Alpine
Adam Lamb (14:59):
amp, the wheels and the tires
James Shirley (15:00):
and everything like L LJ by with the booming system, baby,
you know, uh, and, uh, and it was cool.
It was cool, man.
I, I had a lot of.
Uh, strange appetites too, then thatI was just all over the place, man,
being young and crazy, you know,
Adam Lamb (15:19):
you're not saying that the reason that you decided that
you were gonna go into this fulltime is because of a conversation.
James Shirley (15:24):
You and I had.
It's funny how you have conversationswith people and they impact your life.
And they later on it's like an old song.
Mama always said they be days like.
You know, and, and you hear that, thatvoice somewhere, you know, you planted a
seed, Adam, you, and thank God for that.
You know, you planted a seed,but the inevitable happened.
I got good, you know, and I gotreally good at what I was doing.
(15:47):
I just, I was, I didn'tknow I was good at it.
And I didn't know, it wasmeant for me to do it.
Cause I couldn't find my way.
You know, I had worked throughsome of the finest restaurants.
And it's funny that people talkabout, you know, grant access and,
and Charlie Trotter and, you know,and all these other chefs that are out
(16:11):
there, the Michael Cornick and stuff.
And I remember working at Gordon'swhen they were coming through the door.
And so I worked at this famous, uh,restaurant owned by this famous, uh,
restaurant tour named Gordon Sinclair.
He had a place in, uh, calledju in Jupiter, Florida.
I believe.
But he also had theknack of finding talent.
(16:36):
So he found Charlie Trotter.
He found grant ates.
He found, uh, I think he was affiliatedwith Norman van a and he's he's, he's had
this whole line cast of great chefs thathave come through the windy city in the
Midwest that he went out and, you know,he, he recruited or, or he, you know, he.
(16:59):
He had a higher, he hada bigger, bigger dollar.
It's like, it's like theprofessionals athletes, you know,
he had a bigger paycheck to abigger offer on the table and.
I got a chance to work around these guys.
And so everywhere you were back then,if you could master the Broer station,
you could walk in any restaurantand get a job as a Broer cook.
(17:20):
If, if, you know, if, if you had areputation on the magnificent mile,
gold coast, you know, Adam, it waslike somebody hired that guy, you
know, he's, he's working a Broer.
At the pump room or he's workinga broiler at, uh, uh, Hugo's park.
Yeah.
Or, or at Larry's prime houseprime rib, he's working, uh,
you know, Morton steakhouse.
(17:41):
He's the broiler guy overthere that's gonna get.
And these owners knew that these guyswere good, cuz they kept their money
coming in and they weren't gonna lose 'em.
So you know that back then youcould get paid what you were worth
in a sense almost, you know, youhad owners that was willing to pay.
Adam Lamb (17:58):
So, uh, before you get any further, you mentioned, uh, that your
family was originally from the south.
Where, where did your,where, where do people hail
from?
James Shirley (18:06):
Well, Jackson, Mississippi, and, uh, throughout the
south, I've got family in Jackson.
I've got family in, uh,Alabama, new Orleans.
And right now, um, my, my, mygrandparents migrated from the south.
Right around the time this individualnamed Emmett till was lynched and in
(18:32):
the south, uh, lynching was prevalent.
And my grandparents got outbecause my uncle was prominent,
educated, good looking, and theydidn't want him to be a statistic.
They didn't want him tobe, uh, another one of our.
You know, uh, George Floyd typesituations that, that went on back then.
(18:55):
And so they came north and theydid what most black families
do when they leave the south.
They migrate to metropolis areas and.
Big cities and they get these jobs,factory jobs, industrial jobs.
And my grandmother was a seamstress.
And then she had lost hersight and regained her sight.
And my grandfather, theywere both uneducated and they
(19:18):
raised five generations of us.
You know, of kids, you know,who, who are doing really well.
And my grandfather worked at Reynolds foilcompany that made Reynolds aluminum foil.
His family had property on the south sideand they live in, lived in Bronzeville
area and, uh, which is really up and boomand popular now in Chicago property up,
(19:43):
you're doing well in Bronzeville and wasjust taught that, you know, There was
never a day that we went without food.
There was never a day that wewent without light, never a day.
We went with without gas.
There was nothing thatthey would not do for me.
You know, my early years I did nothave a, a, a working functioning
(20:06):
relationship with my mother.
You know, I, I grew up, uh, kindof confused a little bit angry and
frustrated, you know, uh, because all.
Friends had younger parents.
And I was raised by theseolder people and kids are cruel
because they tell you the truth.
They say exactly what they see,not what they know all the time.
(20:31):
They say you're fat, you'reblack, you're white, you're ugly.
You're skinny.
You're buck teeth.
You're bald.
You know, your mom is big, youknow, you're poor, you know,
they, they say things like thatto each other and we don't know
the impact it has on us growing.
Into our adult lives, the things thatwere said to us and how they, how they
(20:51):
made us feel and what eventually becameof us, because in the back of our psyche,
uh, in the back of my mind, I had tofight, fight those demons off of hearing
that I have a beautiful relationship withmy mother now, but, uh, my grandparents
came up north and that's what happened.
Adam Lamb (21:10):
Was it because Betty was so involved in her
career that she wasn't around
James Shirley (21:14):
much.
My mother wasn't able to raise kids.
You know, my mother was not fit tobe a mother at that time, you know,
and she, she openly admits that.
And she, she talks about being gratefulthat my grandmother, uh, raised her
kids, you know, because my mother is aproduct of the sixties, the seventies,
the, uh, post the, the, the Vietnamera, uh, free love and, and, and,
(21:40):
and free speech and hippies and, and,and, uh, you know, You know, drugs
has always been around for years.
It just has had differentgenerational aspects.
And during the sixties, you know, peoplewere experimenting and, and my mom
was, she sang in New York for a while.
And, you know, before she got her acttogether, cuz she had to go through some
(22:01):
stuff too, but I'm very proud of my mom.
Um, my mom is my hero to date, youknow, because, because of what she
went through, it made me stronger.
You know, I didn't know some things.
I didn't know the truthabout why my mother wasn't
president until I became older.
And, uh, you know, I, I got intoinvolved in a 12 step program that
(22:22):
helped me do some research and,and find out some things about.
Why I did what I did andwhat made me do what I do.
And, and, uh, that, thathelped me to give my life back.
You know, I think recovery's calledrecovery for a reason, cause it
helps people regain some thingsand, and get their life back.
(22:44):
So my mom is great.
She, she she's my hero, you know, and,uh, my grandparents, God bless them.
You know, Adam, when mygrandfather had started.
Getting ill.
I was at Dickers and I remember, youknow, the, the whole team at Dickers
was like, you take as long as youneed to take care of your grandfather.
(23:05):
I already, I'll never forget getting thatcall when he first had his first stroke.
And, uh, he was wor he was on his way.
He was at work, you know, and he was70 something years old, still writing
public transportation, riding the Lgoing to Springfield, pumping station,
you know, getting off on, uh, I think,uh, Grand or either north avenue, you
(23:29):
know, and, uh, going up to Springfieldpump station, you know, and, uh, I
took care of him, you know, I tookcare of him until the day he died.
You know,
Adam Lamb (23:39):
you, you just, you just put out so much, man.
And I just wanna, uh, step back a littlebit because you, you made some like James,
when you get on a roll, man, you throwout stuff that, you know, Would leave most
people like slack, Jo, like, like what,what are you, what are you talking about?
So I wanna kind of revisit this wholepoint about being good to your life.
And so there's, there's no secret that,you know, our past has been intertwined
(24:03):
for, for both good and bad reasons.
And we've followed each other's story.
And, you know, the fact is, is thatwe both had some rough times and
we came through it and it made.
Stronger.
And I think made us both, probablymore empathetic to others that
might be challenged the same way.
I know that you're still heavily involvedin the recovery kind of network and you
make yourself available and you wannamake sure that you stand for those people.
(24:27):
And that's not an attitudethat's usually shared, especially
in the hospitality industry.
It's changing now, thankfully.
But, um, you know, now that thatdoor's open up a Creek, I wanna
kick that motherfucker down becausethere's lots of stuff that I would've
changed had I had the power back.
But I also know a bunch of guys thatmen and women who in this industry
(24:47):
who loved bitch, you know, and they'dbe the first one to talk about why
things suck and why the place sucksand why the customers suck and why
the bosses suck and da, da, da, da.
I see it all the time on Facebook and my.
Deep desire is that they havetheir own awakening and realize
that they're the only ones thathave the power to change anything.
So when you talk about stuff likebeing good to your life, I need to know
(25:10):
exactly like in concrete terms, whatthat looks like, because I know how
everything's energetically connected.
You don't, you, you you're, you'repreaching to the choir right now,
but there's a bunch of people outthere who probably need this message
more than, uh, anything else intheir life right now, because.
You know, either you're gonna be avictim or you're gonna be a leader.
And I, I believe there's greatness in,in everybody that's in this industry
(25:32):
and or the capacity, they have greatnessabout something, some particular thing,
and I wanna encourage them to getin and get their fucking work done.
So what do you mean bybeing good to your life?
James Shirley (25:44):
What I mean by that is first of all, you know, acceptance is
the key for anything and, and you gottabe able to accept where you're at and.
I mean, you touched on a lot of,a lot of things because we live
in a world that's kind of a, apseudo masochistic relationship.
We, we, we go through a lot of abusefrom our employer, from our customers,
(26:07):
from our families, from everybody else.
To not only put bread on the table,but to do what we do well and show up
every day, it's like leaving the dungeonand showing up again for the next day.
You just gotta know what the safeword is to get out, you know?
And, and, and I always, I alwaysuse the analogy of being, being in
(26:28):
a culinary world is like a, likea pseudo masochistic relationship.
You just gotta know when tosay ouch or when to get out,
because if you don't, you'll.
You know, you'll just, you you'll implode.
You'll self destru.
I mean, now we are reading andhearing about some of our world's
most admired culinary people endingtheir lives or lives coming to an
(26:51):
end or, or falling the fall fromgrace is very painful and very long.
And if you don't have humil.
As a key, then the fallwill be even worse.
You know, I live every day withthe mantra in my head that I'm
as only good as my last meal.
I don't care who I fed, how well itwent on my resume and my pedigree, if I
(27:17):
fucked up a barbecue with hot dogs forfive kids, then I gotta live with that.
All as only good as my last meal.
And, and, and that could be thecatalyst that a GM or an executive or
somebody come raining down, fire on us.
(27:39):
That'll turn our whole worldupside down and I'll walk off
without humility with saying.
What big, no big deals.
Just some kids.
It was hot dogs.
Why are you tripping?
You know, why are youhaving a fit about it?
But it was the CEO's kid thatwas, there was the president's
kid, somebody else's kid.
And then I'm saying in my head,why is this guy talking to me?
I'm doesn't he know who I am.
(28:00):
You know, the question is,is, do I know who I am?
You know?
And, and that.
We suffer with a lot of in frailtiesand things that happen for us.
And that the number one thing thateludes us in our industry is balance.
And that I have to, at somepoint know when to tap out.
You know, after 10 and 12 hours, knowingthat it'll be there tomorrow, I've
(28:24):
watched too many of us burn up andcrash because success is driving us.
And I refuse to be behind a deadlinebecause I didn't have the menu written.
I didn't have the, themenu cost it out in time.
I didn't, I didn't have people,you know, and, and granted you.
(28:44):
Good bosses.
And then you got bosses who are not good.
And when you got people that you can'tsay, Hey, I didn't get it done today.
I'm sorry.
I'll get it done tomorrow.
And you can explain tothat why it didn't happen.
You know, time management.
I, I started off, we started off talkingabout time management and talking
about how I, my wife has poor timemanagement and, uh, and, and, and, and,
(29:05):
and it impedes and it, I wasn't gonna
Adam Lamb (29:08):
bring that up.
I was gonna edit that out, man.
James Shirley (29:10):
Okay.
Hey,
Adam Lamb (29:12):
I was gonna edit that out.
That's we're gonna include that.
It's
too
James Shirley (29:14):
late.
That's out the, Hey, it's no news to it.
It's, it's no secret.
It's no news to her, but she'smy muse, you know, let me,
let me say this, you know?
Yeah.
This is my second marriage and to takemy wife through what I've taken her.
I mean, she's worked her weight andgoal because being married to somebody
(29:38):
like us, or even in a relationship withsomebody like us, you gotta examine
their psyche and ask them because theygotta know what they're signing up for.
They gotta know that I'll say I'll be backand I may not come back until tomorrow.
They gotta understand.
You know, when I say Ipromise we were going.
Hey, I'm sorry.
(29:59):
You know, party VIP pop up.
I gotta do it.
Can we go later?
You know, um, we, we, we live witha lot of broken promises and at
some point we have to learn how tobalance that, to make good on that
in our, in our, in our, in our lives.
That's what I talkabout, you know, my life.
Isn't good.
I'm good to my life.
(30:19):
I've started to do alot of different things.
Like, like for instance, uh, wedon't wanna talk about getting.
You know, we think that's, we thinkthat's, uh, taboo for chefs to talk about
having a therapist, getting some mentalhealth, mental health dominates our
industry because we're these brilliantswith, uh, food and astronomy engineers.
(30:48):
And we're these Arian and wherethese Epicuren and where these.
Brilliant food minds.
And they don't know whatgoes on behind that.
You know, it's like being a Robin Williamsof, of a SCO being a part, Robin Williams
and part of SC, you know what I'm saying?
It it's like, nobody knows what goeson line of a genius when they have to
(31:10):
show up and perform every day, you know?
And, and the pressure behind that,you know, um, nobody knows what
happens with us when, I mean,how many chefs did you know.
That have had one marriage, youknow, or that are still married.
You know, how many chefs that youknow, that are willing to admit.
(31:30):
They weren't there for the, thekids' graduation, the kids prime,
the kids, this, this, this, becausethey were at work at some high end
dinner or something else going on.
How many chefs, you know, that's goingto admit they got a drinking problem.
They got a, they got an addiction.
They got a substance abuse problem.
(31:51):
Or if it's not that they got someother dark secret, because after
leaving work, you gotta findan avenue to feed this monster.
That's going raging on the inside.
Cause you kept your cool all day.
You didn't punch anybody out.
You didn't cuss out your boss.
You know, you didn't kick, you didn'thave a, a, a, a Gordon Ramsey moment
(32:12):
and, and insult people and shove.
I remember chefs would come in andjust shove your fucking meas applause
off the counter on the floor.
Not just because you screwed up,but because we were having a bad
day and they had to have some kindof way to take it out on someone.
So let me take it out on my kitchen.
Adam Lamb (32:31):
So you bring up really great points again, but here's,
here's the piece that's missing.
And you start off by talking about,you know, it's not necessarily,
it's frowned upon to talk about thefact that you, you know, you might,
uh, you might need some help withthe way you're processing things.
The fact of the matter is whenyou're creative and I, and we can be
(32:51):
creative in lots of different ways,you know, we can be creative and.
Planning the execution of a banquet,not necessarily the food, but how you
get all the components put together.
I mean, sometimes all the pieces aremoving around in your head and you can't
even explain to anybody how you come tothis point, but you just know it's right.
And I, I just wanna remind everybody,because I think we forget about
this because we get caught.
(33:12):
So caught up in the bullshit isthat we're all very, very, very,
very fucking sensitive people in aworld that doesn't really fucking
appreciate sensitive people.
So, what the fuck are yousupposed to do with that?
Well, the first thing isacknowledge the fact that you're
sensitive, nothing wrong with that.
Doesn't make you any less than,or more than doesn't make you any
more artistic or less artistic.
(33:33):
But if you're not like inyour truth about who you are.
So that's one of the things I love aboutyou, James so much is like, there is no
fucking pretense about, you know, youown every single fucking bit of you, you
know, you own your work ethic, you own thecircumstances that you find yourself in.
You don't ever, I've never heard.
Throw anybody under the fuckingbus, other than to say, you know,
(33:54):
that dude's an asshole, right.
But you never made it up that,you know, they were keeping
you for any, anything else.
So the fact is that once I acknowledgedthe fact that I was, you know, sensitive,
which is weird because I'm a big dudeand people don't expect that to be
coming out, but at least it gave mean, uh, a way to access a healing.
(34:15):
That before was, you know, I couldn't showany weakness or tenderness or compassion
or vulnerability or transparency toanybody, especially in the brigade.
Fuck that, man, becauseI need you to jump.
What, how high we chef?
Okay.
Now let's go.
When, in fact it took me probably,uh, shit, man, probably, uh, probably
(34:41):
15, 18 years before I recognized.
That I hire and manage whole human beings,not just a fucking name on the schedule
and the, and the quicker I get hit to thatso that I can be with them where they're
at the better the whole organization runs.
But, you know, I had to take,I had to take away this dude's
pride once in the office.
(35:02):
I fuck, man makes me so fuckingembarrassed to talk about this, but
you know, his happy go lucky dude.
And you know, he just,every everywhere he went.
You know, things were, things were onfire around him, you know, it just, he
found himself in the worst situations.
And I brought him into the officeand just tore him down verbally, man.
And he dropped to his kneesand started screaming out.
(35:26):
And I thought to myself,holy fuck, what have I done?
Because I know you talk about peoplelike storm and Norman and some other
people that we've known you take away.
Person's dignity.
Then they're capableof doing anything then.
And it wasn't that I was scaredof my, my safety, but I just saw
just how fucking wrong I was fora lot of years to a lot of people.
(35:50):
And there's nothing I can ever do totake that back or make it better, but
I can certainly try to do something.
With that acknowledgement and thatrealization, which is, uh, you
know, carve out a path forwardwith a new way of thinking and a
new way of being in this industry.
That's possible for all of us, becauseI think probably you included and you,
(36:10):
you can agree you or not agree with me.
It's how, it's how weall wanted to be treated.
You know, none of us wanted to be treatedlike shit and have the fucking chef come
off, fucking dump our knees on the fuckingfloor because it's having a bad day.
Fuck that.
James Shirley (36:22):
I gotta tell you, Adam, what you're doing
and what you've done with this.
If nobody's told you from ourcommunity, I wanna thank you because
you opened up some boundaries andsome doors, man, for us to get nitty
gritty and talk about exact nature.
What really goes on aboutwhat, what really happens.
You know, I don't know ifyou're aware of what you've done
(36:48):
and, and, and how you've done.
Know, to what capacity, you know,how you've impacted us, man, you
know, you've given us a vehiclethat we wouldn't normally have in
a real world setting to talk about.
And this is this, this isn't thetrash, the organization show this
isn't the, the employer show.
Isn't the, the cook.
(37:10):
This is a, a, a vehicle for usto tell our side of this story.
Like it really is, you know, and telllike, we, like you say, tell it like it
is, you know, you know, I love you, man.
Um, we've been through somany things together, man.
You you've always been mybrother from another mother, man.
You know, we've always, uh,you've always been there.
I've been so proud to watch youevolve as well to go through
(37:34):
what you're going through, man,and what you've been through.
Uh, and, and.
You know, you're, you're, you're,you're like the raft in a fume, you
know, you're always rise to the top,you know, you're, you're like that raft
in a fume, you know, you, you rise, yourise to the top, you know, you're like,
you're like letting that slow roll go.
(37:56):
And you just skim off the top, man.
And each, each time you skim offa, another layer of the top, like
a fume, it gets more pristine.
You could see to the bottom of it.
You know, we always, we, those of us.
Had that, you know, pedigree that,that, that level, that level of
technique we've learned that a goodfume is that you could see yeah.
(38:17):
Who, who know how to make it.
You, you could, you could lookthrough, you could look all
the way down to the bottom.
It's pristine, it's clear, butall the flavor is there, man.
And that's what you've done, you know?
And, and it's like, For us to bestill connected after so many people
that have fallen off the face of theearth that we've known together that
(38:38):
have disappeared that have vanished.
I mean, we've known people who crashedand burned, you know, I, I gotta give
homage to those who paved the way beforeme, you know, you know, that have, have
struggled internally and, and not beenable to get the help or say anything.
You know, uh, like a Anthony Bourdain, youknow, you know, like a Charlie Trotter,
(39:01):
you know, there, you know, there's peoplewho are out there that are not the Anthony
Bourdain and Charlie trots who are justas good and who are behind the scenes
and they don't get the recognition.
They don't.
I mean, nobody would knowthat I fed co Powell and, and,
and, and Gobi off and Bush.
(39:23):
You, you know, and, and, and ChristineLagar of the international monetary
fund and, you know, all, I mean, wecould to off all these people, but,
but nobody could, nobody in a millionyears would know that, you know, and
something I started doing is that Iwould always wear my chef coat to work,
you know, and back and forth becauseI just walk in the door ready to go.
(39:46):
And my wife said to me, Why, why,why do you not just want to be a
human being when you get off of work?
Why is it that you're a chef 24 7?
I don't, you know, andshe helped me with this.
So I got like pull over sweatsand, you know, you know, I got
(40:10):
some long sleeve tees that Iwear to work and I changed my, I.
I get into that, you know, Igotta remember when I'm at home
and my wife's cooking me a meal.
I'm not the chef, I'm her husband.
You know, um, if my kids wanna takeme to dinner, I'm not the chef.
(40:30):
You know, I try my best to, you know,sit in the seat and be patient with the
poor service, the cold mashed potatoes orwhatever happens, you know, I'm not gonna
let anything happen on my watch either.
If I'm out.
My family and friends in theservice and the food is not right.
I mean, we are the worst peopleto die with the worst people to go
out to dinner with, you know, causewe're picking everything apart, man.
(40:53):
But, um, back back to how much I love you,Adam Lamb and how proud I am of you, man.
You know, I, I, I told a few people aboutthis and, and I gotta give shouts out
to my, my D my, my senior management.
It's been a long time coming sinceI worked not only in a place that
anybody would love to work at, butto work around and work with people.
(41:18):
I love going to work with every day, man.
I could truly say my, my boss ismy work sister work wife, you know?
Um, my, my district manager is mywork big brother, my confidant,
my friend, you know, I have asupporting management team around me.
(41:39):
You know, the organizationthat I work for, I've been
working for for a long time.
They have been great and notall organizations get it.
Right.
I mean, Hey, they make some baddecisions along the way, too, you know?
And it impacts people atevery level, you know?
Um, but they've done right by me, youknow, and they've done well, you know,
(42:00):
and, uh, you know, I I'm, I'm, I'vebeen blessed, man, this whole journey.
You know, uh, I've been blessed.
I thought I was gonna try toget through this without crying.
Cause I'm a cry baby.
And, um, I'm, I'm real sensitive, youknow, but, uh, you know, seriously, man,
I, I, when I look at, I, I'm sitting hereand on that side of me is diamond head,
(42:24):
you know, and on this side of me is theocean and I grew up riding the L to.
When I, when this all started, Iwas riding the mean green limousine.
I was riding CTA and one
Adam Lamb (42:39):
11 in cottage Grove.
Yep.
James Shirley (42:41):
Yep.
Over there on king drive.
Adam Lamb (42:44):
Right.
Thank you, man.
Um, and you know, you, you made,um, my point for me really, because,
um, I've had this ongoing argumentwith, um, somebody I love very dearly
about, you know, when you're a chef,that's, that's who you are and.
Shot back is always like that's bullshit.
You know, as, as long as you identifywith being a chef, like as who I am,
(43:09):
um, then you're liable to put yourselfin situations that are not healthy both
mentally, physically, or emotionally.
And so I would tag onwith what you said, James.
And so maybe a shift of perspectiveis identifying yourself as a human
being that has needs and, and desires.
And.
Sometimes just want to goget a fucking pedicure.
(43:30):
I love pedicures, man.
This is
James Shirley (43:32):
fantastic.
Adam Lamb (43:34):
that's it.
For this episode of chef life radio.
If you enjoyed it, it made youthink laugh or get pissed off.
And please tell a friend, get ear free.
Copy of three ideas for less.
Chef stress by signing up for ourmonthly newsletter at chef life.
radio.com/signup here at chef life radio.
We believe that working in akitchen should be demanding.
(43:56):
It just shouldn't have to be demeaning.
It should be hard.
It just doesn't have to be harsh.
We believe that it's possible to havemore solidarity, less, suck it up.
Sunshine, more compassion,less cutthroat island.
We believe in more partnershipand less put up, shut up more
community and a lot less.
Fuck you finally.
Consider for a second where allthe blood, sweat, and sometimes
(44:19):
even tears we put into what we doreally at the end of the day, that's
just some brown stuff on a plate.
None of it really matters.
It doesn't define you as aperson or make you any more
special or less than anyone else.
It's just a dance we're engaged in.
So we might as well laughand enjoy every bit of it.
Even the crappy parts while we're doingit, or didn't, you know, that the purpose
(44:39):
of your life should be to enjoy it.
James Shirley (44:42):
Like it happy.
I love it.
I'm humble.
Goddamn glory.
Don't.
Adam Lamb (44:49):
Follow us@facebook.com.
Chef life, radio Twitter at cheflife radio on Instagram at chef
life radio and check out ourwebsite, chef life radio.com.
Oh yes.
Chef stand tall and frosty brothersand sisters until next time be well.
And do good.
Leave the light on honey.
(45:09):
I'm coming home late.
This show was produced, recorded andedited by me, Adam Lamb at the dish
pit studios in Baro North Carolina.
This has been a productionof realignment video.
Owners used to dying at other competitors' restaurants to see
who's their cook and would ask them tocome out to the table and undermine.
And underhandedly say,what's this guy paying you.
You know, and they would say,what's this guy paying you and
you'd say, Hey man, he's paying me,you know, how's he treating you?
You know?
(00:24):
And back then it was easy for anowner to buy his chef a car or,
uh, get him over an apartment.
Or helping with his recreationalactivities, you know, uh, it was easy, you
know, I, I can remember I worked somewhereand I won't name him that every new year's
Eve, if we packed a house and got allthe tables fed before midnight, There
(00:50):
was a gram of Coke on the bar, uh, a, aenvelope with $500, a bottle of Dawn or
some taters and a pat on the back saying,man, you guys rocked it out tonight.
Congratulate happy new year, you know, uh,that's the kind of mentality that went on.
You know, you're a rockstar at work.
(01:10):
and you live in the projects andyou go home on the L or something.
And you know, you livein a real shitty world.
And, but at work you're a hero.
You're a legend or you'rea rock star at work.
And you come from an abusive familyand at work you're, you're a God that's
Adam Lamb (01:28):
executive chef.
Brother from anothermother, James Shirley.
And on this episode of chef liferadio, we're gonna be talking about
what it was like to come up in theindustry in Chicago, in the nineties
and how he went from the streets ofthe south side to the shores of Hawaii.
We'll talk about the demons thathe had to fight along the way.
And after the break, you're gonnafind out how you can do the same too.
(01:49):
Doesn't matter where you're at, itonly matters where you're headed.
Stay tuned to find out whatit really takes to succeed.
This is chef life radio, serving chefs,just like you who wanna enjoy their
careers without sacrificing their lives.
I'm your host, Adam Lamb.
And over my 30 year career, as a chefand hospitality, professional, I've
(02:11):
coached and mentored thousands ofArians who led lives of contribution
community and authentic leadership.
Let me be your guide on this journeytogether, looking for solutions and
perspectives to some of the biggest issuesimpacting the hospitality industry, our
lives and our careers today we chef.
And now back to the show, I'dlike to welcome to the show.
(02:34):
Very dear friend.
Executive chef James Shirley, what is up?
My
James Shirley (02:38):
brother, man.
Adam.
It's been a journey, man.
It's so good to see you.
It's so good to
Adam Lamb (02:43):
see you, man.
I'm excited to hear about your journey,you know, because we've, we've stayed
in touch albeit a little bit, youknow, I could own some of that and
say, I could have been a little bitmore present and, and, and reaching
out, but we've managed to somehow stayconnected throughout our entire careers.
And so I'm just tickle todeath that I get to see you.
And you're in the positionyou are because when we first.
(03:04):
You didn't wanna haveanything to do with culinary?
I mean, you were just, it wasa little side hustle to you,
James Shirley (03:08):
right?
It was, I worked for the city of Chicagoand the, the crazy part about how I got
into food is because of my passion formusic because of me being a musician.
Um, I'm a professionally trained musician.
I, I had music in all my life.
My mother's a world renownedjazz singer, famous jazz singer.
For those of you out there who, whoare hipsters and like jazz and blues,
(03:30):
she, she resides in new Orleans.
And her name is Betty Shirley.
And she's sang with justabout everybody on the planet.
And, uh, she resides in new Orleans singsin still she's like 78 and still singing.
She's still singing.
She makes juries she's school teacher,but I got into cooking because I had.
(03:53):
Strong work ethic based on my familyupbringing coming from the south.
And, uh, I was raised by mygrandparents and it was like,
we don't care what you do.
You gonna work, you know, we don't care.
What happens?
You gonna hire your, and, uh, I, Iremember there's, there's some people
that are some baby boomers thatremember the term chores, you know,
you get home, you had chores to do so.
(04:16):
I, I got a job.
I was, uh, I had went to,you know, let me back up.
I went to.
Grammar school, high school, middleschool, marching band, concert
band as band, all city band drum,and played with a lot of artists.
I was really good and, uh, I still playand, uh, I had gotten into rambling state.
(04:36):
And if anybody seen the movie drum line.
I was like Nick and I hada cocky, arrogant attitude.
I took, I went to rambling, Louisianawith a, a suitcase full of clothes
and, and weed and my attitude.
And then I found out real quickly thatI wasn't or tolerated with with that.
And so I was back inChicago before I knew it.
(04:56):
And my band directorreached out for me again.
And then I got into Vander collegeof music, and then I said, well,
you know, who needs music school?
When I.
You know, one of the top drummers inthe city, and I'll soon be playing with
airplane and fire or, you know, Chicago orsome top band, you know, and I'm playing
at nightclubs and stuff at, at a reallyyoung age playing with my band director.
(05:20):
So I walked into SPIAnine 80 north Michigan.
And, uh, one of my classmates wasthe executive steward and uh, he
said, James, what are you doing here?
And I said, man, looking for a job andit's me and one of my childhood friends.
And he says, well, You know, can you cook?
And I said, sure, I could cook.
I can make cheeseburgers and cheeseburgersand you know, I'm good at girl baloney
(05:43):
sandwiches and stuff, and fish sticks,you know, it's like, nah, that's
not quite what this is in detailed.
And before I knew it, I was catapulted.
I was shot out of a cannon into the world.
Uh, the underbelly of IEN fine diningit's nor Northern Italian cuisine.
(06:04):
Next thing.
I know I'm making calamari and we'retaking the acks outta fish to make
Fe I got some real hands on trainingand I was a walking nightmare, a
disaster in the kitchen for many years.
Why, why do you say that?
Well, I walked in the kitchen and.
(06:24):
I got no culinary degree, nopedigree, no culinary experience.
I'm around Johnston and wellgrads I'm around CIA grads.
You know, back in the day, Adam,you've been in Chicago, Washburn trade
school was a big place for cooks to go.
She hospitality.
And you know, here I am, you know, thiskid that I, I didn't know, a spoon from a
(06:45):
calendar, I didn't know a Civ from a OI.
I didn't, you know, and, and I remember.
My first moment of truth was when Iburned four boxes of Pines in a day
and, and those things I remember, andthey just sat and watched, you know,
because they, no one told me that,you know, five minutes, three minutes
(07:09):
topping oven at three 50, you know,nobody told me how much they cost.
Nobody said anything.
And so they just watched me.
Kinda kinda stumble andBumble through the kitchen.
And I was a, you know,the, the kitchen joke.
Adam Lamb (07:22):
Wait, wait, wait, before you go.
I, I don't, I don't mean to interruptyou, but I just wanna make a point about
the fact that, you know, the type oftraining and mentorship that you got
at Bija, you know, that's the way itused to be for in every restaurant.
Right.
And the fact that they allowedyou to burn four boxes of pine
nuts and then say anything iskind of like, yeah, he's gonna.
(07:44):
Now anybody tries to do that.
And you know, there asses out the streetbecause you know how much that costs,
and there is an expense when you haveapprentices, but that type of training,
have you ever burned a Pinenut ever
James Shirley (07:58):
since then?
Never.
And I won't let anybodyelse burn them either.
Cause I know how much it costs, youknow, but, but the most valuable thing.
So I give homage to.
Anthony J Monte, who is the executivechef, uh, and part owner of SPIA
because he bought, he workedfor the levys for a long time.
(08:21):
And, you know, he'sbeen all over the place.
He was on the, he was in the spotlightfor a minute with French chef, uh,
Brad cause Mario Batali and, and TonyTuana and a couple other Italian chefs
were all, uh, kinda sponsors of it.
And it was in the heyday in Chicago.
When, when.
You know, hot cuisine was,was all over the place.
(08:43):
New VE cuisine was all over the place.
If you had a bistro or Victoria orItalian restaurant, or any of those
places were all over the place.
And he, he pulled me in the officeone day and said, guess what?
And I just knew he was gonna fire me.
He says, you know, you're, you'rea train wreck, but you know, I
love the fact you show up every dayand you take the abuse off these.
(09:05):
He said every non-speaking dishwasherI have in my kitchen can probably
out cook my, my best, you know,executive, sewer, sous chef, and
they can't speak a lick English.
He said the fact that you show up everyday and you, you take crap off these
guys, is this a non profanity show?
Cause I might drop the F bomb.
I might, I might drop a few slur.
Adam Lamb (09:26):
No pro dude profanity is encouraged on this show.
We get the big E in front of our name.
We don't give a shit, fuck drop it.
If we
James Shirley (09:34):
wanna says you're about dumb as a bag of rocks, but the rest of
those assholes in the kitchen, I, I I'dhave you work any day, you know, uh, over
them because you know, you take a lotof crap off of them and, uh, You know,
the inevitable happened, uh, somebodycalled off and that happens in our world.
(09:54):
Somebody's demise is somebody'ssuccess in our world.
And so somebody screwed up,didn't make their shift.
And next thing you know, I was sauteingin the cafe and he asked me, James, you
wanna, I'm gonna throw you in the cafe.
You're gonna saute.
I couldn't say it.
Let alone pronounce itor spell it at the time.
I didn't know how I didn't have a clue.
(10:15):
What sauteing.
So before I knew it, I was making,you know, Cario plates and partio
and VGAs and O Buco and BU,and my vernacular had changed.
And I didn't, I, you know, I hadalways had language at school
and I think led to another man.
(10:36):
And, uh, before I knew.
I was, uh, I was a roundsman.
I was a first to not, I was working forthe Levy's at several properties and,
uh, I got good at it, you know, and,uh, and I, and I had to deal with the
other, the other pink elephant in theroom, you know, I'm the only black guy
in the kitchen in, in a five star, uh,restaurant, you know, uh, with no PED.
(11:00):
You know, and, and that, and that, thatexisted then, and it still kind of exists
now to some degree, you know, I'm, I'mreally ecstatic when I go on LinkedIn and
I, and I see a vast array of people ofcolor at the level of executive chefs.
And beyond that, Who have broken thoseglass ceilings and, and got past the
(11:20):
stereotypical male European dominatedindustry of I'm French, I'm Austrian,
I'm German, I'm Italian, I'm from someforeign I'm from somewhere in Europe.
And now I'm an executive chef and you'resupposed to bow down to me, you know?
So, uh, we, we, we brokenthose, those stereotypes, man.
And, and I always, you know, I'mhumbled and grateful where the universe.
(11:46):
Has sent me and where, where theGod of my own understanding has
placed me in, in doing what I do.
And so I always reach back.
I don't look down on people.
Uh I'm if I'm, if I'm looking down,I'm looking down to reach up, to
reach my hand out, to pick you up,you know, because I've seen it happen.
You know, I've had a woman sous chef.
(12:06):
And she was, she was a killer.
She was a beast man as African Americansister, who I made my sous chef.
And couldn't nobodyunderstand why did I do that?
Because she car.
You know, at the end of the day,do you care about the product you
put out what you do, how you do it?
I don't care where you come from,what walk alive, what pedigree, you
(12:27):
know, uh, I'd rather have somebodythat shows up to work on time in a
clean APR, in a cold the uniform.
And they, they could be the worstthing under the sun color wise in
the kitchen, but it is the attitude.
And Tony told me, he said,you got the heart of a lion.
He said, one day, you'll be good at.
And I didn't take it seriously.
And, uh, I worked for the city ofChicago for a lot of years and I
(12:50):
cooked and I, and I called myselfmoonlighting until I ran up on this
cat name, Adam Lamb, who said, man,you're good at this, you know, on this.
Guy with a mulling and a longponytail and gun GOE and real hip.
And you know, the swashbuckler inthe kitchen, you know, and said,
(13:12):
man, you ought to, you ought to be,you ought to take this serious, you
know, Shirley dog, you good at this?
And so here I am,
Adam Lamb (13:19):
that was my very first exec, uh, uh, sous chef job at Dick, you know,
true one, you know, in an operationthat's yeah, that's in an operation.
That's doing, you know, theysaid they suspect it to do
2.8 million the first year.
I think they did like 18.
I mean, we were doing, we weredoing dishes in the parking
lot that God place was so busy.
Of course, that was 1986.
(13:40):
They bears had just won the super bowl.
And Bob's your uncle.
Here you are.
You're still working for the cityof Chicago, you know, it's funny.
Cause you say, I, I always thoughtthat you were moonlighting because you
know, you had that expensive habit.
That car, yours.
Yeah.
James Shirley (14:01):
And, uh, I, I had this Delta, a eight Royal bro
that my grandfather took me toHanley Dawson Cadillac to buy.
And anybody that's from Chicago thatcan go back in their time machine.
They'll remember Hanley Dawson Cadillac.
So I'm kind, I'm kind ofpredated myself too as well.
So, but it was all, you know,Han Dawson Cadillac was down the
(14:24):
street from Dickers because it was.
Uh, around the corner on lasalI believe either on Ohio or off
of lasal or something like that.
And they were next to ma Murray majors,sporting goods and stuff like that.
So I got this car and, you know,I had went through my first car.
And, um, you know, I was like, okay, I,I got a real automobile, you know, and
(14:49):
it was tricked out with tinted windowsand opera lights and, you know, uh,
had the, uh, Jensen speakers and Alpine
Adam Lamb (14:59):
amp, the wheels and the tires
James Shirley (15:00):
and everything like L LJ by with the booming system, baby,
you know, uh, and, uh, and it was cool.
It was cool, man.
I, I had a lot of.
Uh, strange appetites too, then thatI was just all over the place, man,
being young and crazy, you know,
Adam Lamb (15:19):
you're not saying that the reason that you decided that
you were gonna go into this fulltime is because of a conversation.
James Shirley (15:24):
You and I had.
It's funny how you have conversationswith people and they impact your life.
And they later on it's like an old song.
Mama always said they be days like.
You know, and, and you hear that, thatvoice somewhere, you know, you planted a
seed, Adam, you, and thank God for that.
You know, you planted a seed,but the inevitable happened.
I got good, you know, and I gotreally good at what I was doing.
(15:47):
I just, I was, I didn'tknow I was good at it.
And I didn't know, it wasmeant for me to do it.
Cause I couldn't find my way.
You know, I had worked throughsome of the finest restaurants.
And it's funny that people talkabout, you know, grant access and,
and Charlie Trotter and, you know,and all these other chefs that are out
(16:11):
there, the Michael Cornick and stuff.
And I remember working at Gordon'swhen they were coming through the door.
And so I worked at this famous, uh,restaurant owned by this famous, uh,
restaurant tour named Gordon Sinclair.
He had a place in, uh, calledju in Jupiter, Florida.
I believe.
But he also had theknack of finding talent.
(16:36):
So he found Charlie Trotter.
He found grant ates.
He found, uh, I think he was affiliatedwith Norman van a and he's he's, he's had
this whole line cast of great chefs thathave come through the windy city in the
Midwest that he went out and, you know,he, he recruited or, or he, you know, he.
(16:59):
He had a higher, he hada bigger, bigger dollar.
It's like, it's like theprofessionals athletes, you know,
he had a bigger paycheck to abigger offer on the table and.
I got a chance to work around these guys.
And so everywhere you were back then,if you could master the Broer station,
you could walk in any restaurantand get a job as a Broer cook.
(17:20):
If, if, you know, if, if you had areputation on the magnificent mile,
gold coast, you know, Adam, it waslike somebody hired that guy, you
know, he's, he's working a Broer.
At the pump room or he's workinga broiler at, uh, uh, Hugo's park.
Yeah.
Or, or at Larry's prime houseprime rib, he's working, uh,
you know, Morton steakhouse.
(17:41):
He's the broiler guy overthere that's gonna get.
And these owners knew that these guyswere good, cuz they kept their money
coming in and they weren't gonna lose 'em.
So you know that back then youcould get paid what you were worth
in a sense almost, you know, youhad owners that was willing to pay.
Adam Lamb (17:58):
So, uh, before you get any further, you mentioned, uh, that your
family was originally from the south.
Where, where did your,where, where do people hail
from?
James Shirley (18:06):
Well, Jackson, Mississippi, and, uh, throughout the
south, I've got family in Jackson.
I've got family in, uh,Alabama, new Orleans.
And right now, um, my, my, mygrandparents migrated from the south.
Right around the time this individualnamed Emmett till was lynched and in
(18:32):
the south, uh, lynching was prevalent.
And my grandparents got outbecause my uncle was prominent,
educated, good looking, and theydidn't want him to be a statistic.
They didn't want him tobe, uh, another one of our.
You know, uh, George Floyd typesituations that, that went on back then.
(18:55):
And so they came north and theydid what most black families
do when they leave the south.
They migrate to metropolis areas and.
Big cities and they get these jobs,factory jobs, industrial jobs.
And my grandmother was a seamstress.
And then she had lost hersight and regained her sight.
And my grandfather, theywere both uneducated and they
(19:18):
raised five generations of us.
You know, of kids, you know,who, who are doing really well.
And my grandfather worked at Reynolds foilcompany that made Reynolds aluminum foil.
His family had property on the south sideand they live in, lived in Bronzeville
area and, uh, which is really up and boomand popular now in Chicago property up,
(19:43):
you're doing well in Bronzeville and wasjust taught that, you know, There was
never a day that we went without food.
There was never a day that wewent without light, never a day.
We went with without gas.
There was nothing thatthey would not do for me.
You know, my early years I did nothave a, a, a working functioning
(20:06):
relationship with my mother.
You know, I, I grew up, uh, kindof confused a little bit angry and
frustrated, you know, uh, because all.
Friends had younger parents.
And I was raised by theseolder people and kids are cruel
because they tell you the truth.
They say exactly what they see,not what they know all the time.
(20:31):
They say you're fat, you'reblack, you're white, you're ugly.
You're skinny.
You're buck teeth.
You're bald.
You know, your mom is big, youknow, you're poor, you know,
they, they say things like thatto each other and we don't know
the impact it has on us growing.
Into our adult lives, the things thatwere said to us and how they, how they
(20:51):
made us feel and what eventually becameof us, because in the back of our psyche,
uh, in the back of my mind, I had tofight, fight those demons off of hearing
that I have a beautiful relationship withmy mother now, but, uh, my grandparents
came up north and that's what happened.
Adam Lamb (21:10):
Was it because Betty was so involved in her
career that she wasn't around
James Shirley (21:14):
much.
My mother wasn't able to raise kids.
You know, my mother was not fit tobe a mother at that time, you know,
and she, she openly admits that.
And she, she talks about being gratefulthat my grandmother, uh, raised her
kids, you know, because my mother is aproduct of the sixties, the seventies,
the, uh, post the, the, the Vietnamera, uh, free love and, and, and,
(21:40):
and free speech and hippies and, and,and, uh, you know, You know, drugs
has always been around for years.
It just has had differentgenerational aspects.
And during the sixties, you know, peoplewere experimenting and, and my mom
was, she sang in New York for a while.
And, you know, before she got her acttogether, cuz she had to go through some
(22:01):
stuff too, but I'm very proud of my mom.
Um, my mom is my hero to date, youknow, because, because of what she
went through, it made me stronger.
You know, I didn't know some things.
I didn't know the truthabout why my mother wasn't
president until I became older.
And, uh, you know, I, I got intoinvolved in a 12 step program that
(22:22):
helped me do some research and,and find out some things about.
Why I did what I did andwhat made me do what I do.
And, and, uh, that, thathelped me to give my life back.
You know, I think recovery's calledrecovery for a reason, cause it
helps people regain some thingsand, and get their life back.
(22:44):
So my mom is great.
She, she she's my hero, you know, and,uh, my grandparents, God bless them.
You know, Adam, when mygrandfather had started.
Getting ill.
I was at Dickers and I remember, youknow, the, the whole team at Dickers
was like, you take as long as youneed to take care of your grandfather.
(23:05):
I already, I'll never forget getting thatcall when he first had his first stroke.
And, uh, he was wor he was on his way.
He was at work, you know, and he was70 something years old, still writing
public transportation, riding the Lgoing to Springfield, pumping station,
you know, getting off on, uh, I think,uh, Grand or either north avenue, you
(23:29):
know, and, uh, going up to Springfieldpump station, you know, and, uh, I
took care of him, you know, I tookcare of him until the day he died.
You know,
Adam Lamb (23:39):
you, you just, you just put out so much, man.
And I just wanna, uh, step back a littlebit because you, you made some like James,
when you get on a roll, man, you throwout stuff that, you know, Would leave most
people like slack, Jo, like, like what,what are you, what are you talking about?
So I wanna kind of revisit this wholepoint about being good to your life.
And so there's, there's no secret that,you know, our past has been intertwined
(24:03):
for, for both good and bad reasons.
And we've followed each other's story.
And, you know, the fact is, is thatwe both had some rough times and
we came through it and it made.
Stronger.
And I think made us both, probablymore empathetic to others that
might be challenged the same way.
I know that you're still heavily involvedin the recovery kind of network and you
make yourself available and you wannamake sure that you stand for those people.
(24:27):
And that's not an attitudethat's usually shared, especially
in the hospitality industry.
It's changing now, thankfully.
But, um, you know, now that thatdoor's open up a Creek, I wanna
kick that motherfucker down becausethere's lots of stuff that I would've
changed had I had the power back.
But I also know a bunch of guys thatmen and women who in this industry
(24:47):
who loved bitch, you know, and they'dbe the first one to talk about why
things suck and why the place sucksand why the customers suck and why
the bosses suck and da, da, da, da.
I see it all the time on Facebook and my.
Deep desire is that they havetheir own awakening and realize
that they're the only ones thathave the power to change anything.
So when you talk about stuff likebeing good to your life, I need to know
(25:10):
exactly like in concrete terms, whatthat looks like, because I know how
everything's energetically connected.
You don't, you, you you're, you'repreaching to the choir right now,
but there's a bunch of people outthere who probably need this message
more than, uh, anything else intheir life right now, because.
You know, either you're gonna be avictim or you're gonna be a leader.
And I, I believe there's greatness in,in everybody that's in this industry
(25:32):
and or the capacity, they have greatnessabout something, some particular thing,
and I wanna encourage them to getin and get their fucking work done.
So what do you mean bybeing good to your life?
James Shirley (25:44):
What I mean by that is first of all, you know, acceptance is
the key for anything and, and you gottabe able to accept where you're at and.
I mean, you touched on a lot of,a lot of things because we live
in a world that's kind of a, apseudo masochistic relationship.
We, we, we go through a lot of abusefrom our employer, from our customers,
(26:07):
from our families, from everybody else.
To not only put bread on the table,but to do what we do well and show up
every day, it's like leaving the dungeonand showing up again for the next day.
You just gotta know what the safeword is to get out, you know?
And, and, and I always, I alwaysuse the analogy of being, being in
(26:28):
a culinary world is like a, likea pseudo masochistic relationship.
You just gotta know when tosay ouch or when to get out,
because if you don't, you'll.
You know, you'll just, you you'll implode.
You'll self destru.
I mean, now we are reading andhearing about some of our world's
most admired culinary people endingtheir lives or lives coming to an
(26:51):
end or, or falling the fall fromgrace is very painful and very long.
And if you don't have humil.
As a key, then the fallwill be even worse.
You know, I live every day withthe mantra in my head that I'm
as only good as my last meal.
I don't care who I fed, how well itwent on my resume and my pedigree, if I
(27:17):
fucked up a barbecue with hot dogs forfive kids, then I gotta live with that.
All as only good as my last meal.
And, and, and that could be thecatalyst that a GM or an executive or
somebody come raining down, fire on us.
(27:39):
That'll turn our whole worldupside down and I'll walk off
without humility with saying.
What big, no big deals.
Just some kids.
It was hot dogs.
Why are you tripping?
You know, why are youhaving a fit about it?
But it was the CEO's kid thatwas, there was the president's
kid, somebody else's kid.
And then I'm saying in my head,why is this guy talking to me?
I'm doesn't he know who I am.
(28:00):
You know, the question is,is, do I know who I am?
You know?
And, and that.
We suffer with a lot of in frailtiesand things that happen for us.
And that the number one thing thateludes us in our industry is balance.
And that I have to, at somepoint know when to tap out.
You know, after 10 and 12 hours, knowingthat it'll be there tomorrow, I've
(28:24):
watched too many of us burn up andcrash because success is driving us.
And I refuse to be behind a deadlinebecause I didn't have the menu written.
I didn't have the, themenu cost it out in time.
I didn't, I didn't have people,you know, and, and granted you.
(28:44):
Good bosses.
And then you got bosses who are not good.
And when you got people that you can'tsay, Hey, I didn't get it done today.
I'm sorry.
I'll get it done tomorrow.
And you can explain tothat why it didn't happen.
You know, time management.
I, I started off, we started off talkingabout time management and talking
about how I, my wife has poor timemanagement and, uh, and, and, and, and,
(29:05):
and it impedes and it, I wasn't gonna
Adam Lamb (29:08):
bring that up.
I was gonna edit that out, man.
James Shirley (29:10):
Okay.
Hey,
Adam Lamb (29:12):
I was gonna edit that out.
That's we're gonna include that.
It's
too
James Shirley (29:14):
late.
That's out the, Hey, it's no news to it.
It's, it's no secret.
It's no news to her, but she'smy muse, you know, let me,
let me say this, you know?
Yeah.
This is my second marriage and to takemy wife through what I've taken her.
I mean, she's worked her weight andgoal because being married to somebody
(29:38):
like us, or even in a relationship withsomebody like us, you gotta examine
their psyche and ask them because theygotta know what they're signing up for.
They gotta know that I'll say I'll be backand I may not come back until tomorrow.
They gotta understand.
You know, when I say Ipromise we were going.
Hey, I'm sorry.
(29:59):
You know, party VIP pop up.
I gotta do it.
Can we go later?
You know, um, we, we, we live witha lot of broken promises and at
some point we have to learn how tobalance that, to make good on that
in our, in our, in our, in our lives.
That's what I talkabout, you know, my life.
Isn't good.
I'm good to my life.
(30:19):
I've started to do alot of different things.
Like, like for instance, uh, wedon't wanna talk about getting.
You know, we think that's, we thinkthat's, uh, taboo for chefs to talk about
having a therapist, getting some mentalhealth, mental health dominates our
industry because we're these brilliantswith, uh, food and astronomy engineers.
(30:48):
And we're these Arian and wherethese Epicuren and where these.
Brilliant food minds.
And they don't know whatgoes on behind that.
You know, it's like being a Robin Williamsof, of a SCO being a part, Robin Williams
and part of SC, you know what I'm saying?
It it's like, nobody knows what goeson line of a genius when they have to
(31:10):
show up and perform every day, you know?
And, and the pressure behind that,you know, um, nobody knows what
happens with us when, I mean,how many chefs did you know.
That have had one marriage, youknow, or that are still married.
You know, how many chefs that youknow, that are willing to admit.
(31:30):
They weren't there for the, thekids' graduation, the kids prime,
the kids, this, this, this, becausethey were at work at some high end
dinner or something else going on.
How many chefs, you know, that's goingto admit they got a drinking problem.
They got a, they got an addiction.
They got a substance abuse problem.
(31:51):
Or if it's not that they got someother dark secret, because after
leaving work, you gotta findan avenue to feed this monster.
That's going raging on the inside.
Cause you kept your cool all day.
You didn't punch anybody out.
You didn't cuss out your boss.
You know, you didn't kick, you didn'thave a, a, a, a Gordon Ramsey moment
(32:12):
and, and insult people and shove.
I remember chefs would come in andjust shove your fucking meas applause
off the counter on the floor.
Not just because you screwed up,but because we were having a bad
day and they had to have some kindof way to take it out on someone.
So let me take it out on my kitchen.
Adam Lamb (32:31):
So you bring up really great points again, but here's,
here's the piece that's missing.
And you start off by talking about,you know, it's not necessarily,
it's frowned upon to talk about thefact that you, you know, you might,
uh, you might need some help withthe way you're processing things.
The fact of the matter is whenyou're creative and I, and we can be
(32:51):
creative in lots of different ways,you know, we can be creative and.
Planning the execution of a banquet,not necessarily the food, but how you
get all the components put together.
I mean, sometimes all the pieces aremoving around in your head and you can't
even explain to anybody how you come tothis point, but you just know it's right.
And I, I just wanna remind everybody,because I think we forget about
this because we get caught.
(33:12):
So caught up in the bullshit isthat we're all very, very, very,
very fucking sensitive people in aworld that doesn't really fucking
appreciate sensitive people.
So, what the fuck are yousupposed to do with that?
Well, the first thing isacknowledge the fact that you're
sensitive, nothing wrong with that.
Doesn't make you any less than,or more than doesn't make you any
more artistic or less artistic.
(33:33):
But if you're not like inyour truth about who you are.
So that's one of the things I love aboutyou, James so much is like, there is no
fucking pretense about, you know, youown every single fucking bit of you, you
know, you own your work ethic, you own thecircumstances that you find yourself in.
You don't ever, I've never heard.
Throw anybody under the fuckingbus, other than to say, you know,
(33:54):
that dude's an asshole, right.
But you never made it up that,you know, they were keeping
you for any, anything else.
So the fact is that once I acknowledgedthe fact that I was, you know, sensitive,
which is weird because I'm a big dudeand people don't expect that to be
coming out, but at least it gave mean, uh, a way to access a healing.
(34:15):
That before was, you know, I couldn't showany weakness or tenderness or compassion
or vulnerability or transparency toanybody, especially in the brigade.
Fuck that, man, becauseI need you to jump.
What, how high we chef?
Okay.
Now let's go.
When, in fact it took me probably,uh, shit, man, probably, uh, probably
(34:41):
15, 18 years before I recognized.
That I hire and manage whole human beings,not just a fucking name on the schedule
and the, and the quicker I get hit to thatso that I can be with them where they're
at the better the whole organization runs.
But, you know, I had to take,I had to take away this dude's
pride once in the office.
(35:02):
I fuck, man makes me so fuckingembarrassed to talk about this, but
you know, his happy go lucky dude.
And you know, he just,every everywhere he went.
You know, things were, things were onfire around him, you know, it just, he
found himself in the worst situations.
And I brought him into the officeand just tore him down verbally, man.
And he dropped to his kneesand started screaming out.
(35:26):
And I thought to myself,holy fuck, what have I done?
Because I know you talk about peoplelike storm and Norman and some other
people that we've known you take away.
Person's dignity.
Then they're capableof doing anything then.
And it wasn't that I was scaredof my, my safety, but I just saw
just how fucking wrong I was fora lot of years to a lot of people.
(35:50):
And there's nothing I can ever do totake that back or make it better, but
I can certainly try to do something.
With that acknowledgement and thatrealization, which is, uh, you
know, carve out a path forwardwith a new way of thinking and a
new way of being in this industry.
That's possible for all of us, becauseI think probably you included and you,
(36:10):
you can agree you or not agree with me.
It's how, it's how weall wanted to be treated.
You know, none of us wanted to be treatedlike shit and have the fucking chef come
off, fucking dump our knees on the fuckingfloor because it's having a bad day.
Fuck that.
James Shirley (36:22):
I gotta tell you, Adam, what you're doing
and what you've done with this.
If nobody's told you from ourcommunity, I wanna thank you because
you opened up some boundaries andsome doors, man, for us to get nitty
gritty and talk about exact nature.
What really goes on aboutwhat, what really happens.
You know, I don't know ifyou're aware of what you've done
(36:48):
and, and, and how you've done.
Know, to what capacity, you know,how you've impacted us, man, you
know, you've given us a vehiclethat we wouldn't normally have in
a real world setting to talk about.
And this is this, this isn't thetrash, the organization show this
isn't the, the employer show.
Isn't the, the cook.
(37:10):
This is a, a, a vehicle for usto tell our side of this story.
Like it really is, you know, and telllike, we, like you say, tell it like it
is, you know, you know, I love you, man.
Um, we've been through somany things together, man.
You you've always been mybrother from another mother, man.
You know, we've always, uh,you've always been there.
I've been so proud to watch youevolve as well to go through
(37:34):
what you're going through, man,and what you've been through.
Uh, and, and.
You know, you're, you're, you're,you're like the raft in a fume, you
know, you're always rise to the top,you know, you're, you're like that raft
in a fume, you know, you, you rise, yourise to the top, you know, you're like,
you're like letting that slow roll go.
(37:56):
And you just skim off the top, man.
And each, each time you skim offa, another layer of the top, like
a fume, it gets more pristine.
You could see to the bottom of it.
You know, we always, we, those of us.
Had that, you know, pedigree that,that, that level, that level of
technique we've learned that a goodfume is that you could see yeah.
(38:17):
Who, who know how to make it.
You, you could, you could lookthrough, you could look all
the way down to the bottom.
It's pristine, it's clear, butall the flavor is there, man.
And that's what you've done, you know?
And, and it's like, For us to bestill connected after so many people
that have fallen off the face of theearth that we've known together that
(38:38):
have disappeared that have vanished.
I mean, we've known people who crashedand burned, you know, I, I gotta give
homage to those who paved the way beforeme, you know, you know, that have, have
struggled internally and, and not beenable to get the help or say anything.
You know, uh, like a Anthony Bourdain, youknow, you know, like a Charlie Trotter,
(39:01):
you know, there, you know, there's peoplewho are out there that are not the Anthony
Bourdain and Charlie trots who are justas good and who are behind the scenes
and they don't get the recognition.
They don't.
I mean, nobody would knowthat I fed co Powell and, and,
and, and Gobi off and Bush.
(39:23):
You, you know, and, and, and ChristineLagar of the international monetary
fund and, you know, all, I mean, wecould to off all these people, but,
but nobody could, nobody in a millionyears would know that, you know, and
something I started doing is that Iwould always wear my chef coat to work,
you know, and back and forth becauseI just walk in the door ready to go.
(39:46):
And my wife said to me, Why, why,why do you not just want to be a
human being when you get off of work?
Why is it that you're a chef 24 7?
I don't, you know, andshe helped me with this.
So I got like pull over sweatsand, you know, you know, I got
(40:10):
some long sleeve tees that Iwear to work and I changed my, I.
I get into that, you know, Igotta remember when I'm at home
and my wife's cooking me a meal.
I'm not the chef, I'm her husband.
You know, um, if my kids wanna takeme to dinner, I'm not the chef.
(40:30):
You know, I try my best to, you know,sit in the seat and be patient with the
poor service, the cold mashed potatoes orwhatever happens, you know, I'm not gonna
let anything happen on my watch either.
If I'm out.
My family and friends in theservice and the food is not right.
I mean, we are the worst peopleto die with the worst people to go
out to dinner with, you know, causewe're picking everything apart, man.
(40:53):
But, um, back back to how much I love you,Adam Lamb and how proud I am of you, man.
You know, I, I, I told a few people aboutthis and, and I gotta give shouts out
to my, my D my, my senior management.
It's been a long time coming sinceI worked not only in a place that
anybody would love to work at, butto work around and work with people.
(41:18):
I love going to work with every day, man.
I could truly say my, my boss ismy work sister work wife, you know?
Um, my, my district manager is mywork big brother, my confidant,
my friend, you know, I have asupporting management team around me.
(41:39):
You know, the organizationthat I work for, I've been
working for for a long time.
They have been great and notall organizations get it.
Right.
I mean, Hey, they make some baddecisions along the way, too, you know?
And it impacts people atevery level, you know?
Um, but they've done right by me, youknow, and they've done well, you know,
(42:00):
and, uh, you know, I I'm, I'm, I'vebeen blessed, man, this whole journey.
You know, uh, I've been blessed.
I thought I was gonna try toget through this without crying.
Cause I'm a cry baby.
And, um, I'm, I'm real sensitive, youknow, but, uh, you know, seriously, man,
I, I, when I look at, I, I'm sitting hereand on that side of me is diamond head,
(42:24):
you know, and on this side of me is theocean and I grew up riding the L to.
When I, when this all started, Iwas riding the mean green limousine.
I was riding CTA and one
Adam Lamb (42:39):
11 in cottage Grove.
Yep.
James Shirley (42:41):
Yep.
Over there on king drive.
Adam Lamb (42:44):
Right.
Thank you, man.
Um, and you know, you, you made,um, my point for me really, because,
um, I've had this ongoing argumentwith, um, somebody I love very dearly
about, you know, when you're a chef,that's, that's who you are and.
Shot back is always like that's bullshit.
You know, as, as long as you identifywith being a chef, like as who I am,
(43:09):
um, then you're liable to put yourselfin situations that are not healthy both
mentally, physically, or emotionally.
And so I would tag onwith what you said, James.
And so maybe a shift of perspectiveis identifying yourself as a human
being that has needs and, and desires.
And.
Sometimes just want to goget a fucking pedicure.
(43:30):
I love pedicures, man.
This is
James Shirley (43:32):
fantastic.
Adam Lamb (43:34):
that's it.
For this episode of chef life radio.
If you enjoyed it, it made youthink laugh or get pissed off.
And please tell a friend, get ear free.
Copy of three ideas for less.
Chef stress by signing up for ourmonthly newsletter at chef life.
radio.com/signup here at chef life radio.
We believe that working in akitchen should be demanding.
(43:56):
It just shouldn't have to be demeaning.
It should be hard.
It just doesn't have to be harsh.
We believe that it's possible to havemore solidarity, less, suck it up.
Sunshine, more compassion,less cutthroat island.
We believe in more partnershipand less put up, shut up more
community and a lot less.
Fuck you finally.
Consider for a second where allthe blood, sweat, and sometimes
(44:19):
even tears we put into what we doreally at the end of the day, that's
just some brown stuff on a plate.
None of it really matters.
It doesn't define you as aperson or make you any more
special or less than anyone else.
It's just a dance we're engaged in.
So we might as well laughand enjoy every bit of it.
Even the crappy parts while we're doingit, or didn't, you know, that the purpose
(44:39):
of your life should be to enjoy it.
James Shirley (44:42):
Like it happy.
I love it.
I'm humble.
Goddamn glory.
Don't.
Adam Lamb (44:49):
Follow us@facebook.com.
Chef life, radio Twitter at cheflife radio on Instagram at chef
life radio and check out ourwebsite, chef life radio.com.
Oh yes.
Chef stand tall and frosty brothersand sisters until next time be well.
And do good.
Leave the light on honey.
(45:09):
I'm coming home late.
This show was produced, recorded andedited by me, Adam Lamb at the dish
pit studios in Baro North Carolina.
This has been a productionof realignment video.
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