April 24, 2024 • 33 mins
Embark on a gastronomic voyage with Ariane Daguin, the force behind D'Artagnan, as she recounts her mission to redefine the American palate with a touch of Gascon finesse. Ariane's tale is more than a story of culinary prowess; it's a testament to her undying commitment to the art of meat and poultry, from her Gascon roots to the tables of America's finest establishments. As she narrates the challenges of scaling an ethical business, we're reminded of the sheer resilience required to maintain quality amidst growth and the upheavals of a pandemic that reshaped the restaurant landscape.
Thank you Ariane!!
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https://www.dartagnan.com/chef-ariane-daguin.html
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Episode Transcript
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Chef James (00:14):
Hey everyone, welcome to Chef Sense.
I'm your host, Chef Massey.
Okay, so today on the podcast,what a privilege to have Ariane
Digging here from D'Artagnan.
Thank you for joining us.
No, thank you.
Thank you, James, Having you onChef Sense.
You're such a pillar in ourcountry and, you know, coming in
(00:34):
in 1985, and just harnessingand being a huge part of that
change.
I'm excited for you to sharethat with all of us.
Ariane (00:42):
All right.
Chef James (00:43):
I'm blushing.
First of all.
Well, I'll take that as a hugecompliment.
Can you share with us just yourlineage and your journey and
some things you faced over 36?
, 37 years, 37 years, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ariane (00:58):
Okay, well, here we go.
So I'm from Gascogne, southwestFrance, a long, long lineage of
people in the food business oragriculture farmers, seven
generations behind me.
The latest one, my father, wasa restaurateur and chef, had two
(01:19):
Michelin stars in Hoche, asmall town in the heart of
Gascony, capital of Gascony,where all the three musketeers
came from, where D'Artagnan camefrom, and my father was very,
very proud of his heritage andalso the whole family.
And growing up in that andbeing born and growing up in
(01:44):
that hotel restaurant, I saw howhe was functioning, which
basically was farmers or huntersor fishermen coming with
products that were very fresh,proposing to him stuff and him
working with basically all theproducts seasonal, of the region
, local and nothing else.
(02:06):
And this builds your palate, itdoes build your nutrition sense
and I didn't know any other way.
I didn't know that you couldfactory farm beef in Texas to
make hamburgers.
I didn't know all those things.
I didn't know you could factoryfarm beef in Texas to make
hamburgers.
I didn't know all those things.
(02:26):
I didn't know you could factoryfarm chickens.
There were no factory farmchicken in Gascogne when I grew
up.
All the chickens were outsidepicking on insects all over the
place around the farm the gooseand the ducks for foie gras, a
couple of pigs for thecharcuterie, where we would kill
(02:49):
a pig once a year with thecousins and have all the
charcuterie in the world.
And that's how I grew up.
So when I came here and I tastedthe first time I tasted the
chicken here in 1978 as astudent, I was horrified.
I wasn't even sure I could stayin this country where the
(03:10):
chicken tasted like fish, youknow, and was so mushy and so
falling apart.
It was, ah, what's happening?
Where am I?
You know what happened.
And so I finished my study.
Actually, I didn't finish mystudies.
I dropped out because I ran outof money from Barnard College,
(03:30):
columbia University, and I endedup at the Three Little Pigs.
The Three Little Pigs were thefirst charcuterie salumeria in
French, in New York.
I stayed with them for fouryears and one day arrived a
couple of guys with a foie gras,that fat liver from the duck
(03:55):
and the goose.
And, to make it short, mybosses at the Three Little Pigs
didn't want to go into thatbusiness, but to me it was
really going back to.
I hadn't tasted foie gras sinceI had left france and gasconia.
I was missing it and I saw ahistoric moment in america where
(04:15):
it was the first foie grasgrown from ducks in america.
It did not exist for that.
So I said I need to be involvedin this and and that's how I
left the Three Little Pigs and,with a partner, started my own
company, tartagnan.
And immediately we saw that wecouldn't just survive on the
(04:37):
foie gras and the duck partsthat go with the foie gras and
the whole duck.
That was not enough to make acompany.
So we immediately went tosource good chicken from Amish
farmers who were raising themthe right way, and quail and
rabbit and venison and bison.
(04:58):
And so we started to bespecialized like that in
specialty poultry, specialtymeats.
And immediately in 1985,immediately, all those young
chefs who were coming out of FCIyou know, the French Culinary
Institute, johnson, wales, cia,peter Kemp, that became ICE,
(05:24):
later Cornell all those youngchefs who were traveling to
Europe and coming back, theywanted, they were looking for
that kind of a product.
They wanted to be glorified thedishwasher from the basement of
a restaurant.
They wanted to have good stuffon their menu, and so the timing
(05:49):
was we were very lucky, thetiming was perfect and they were
, and today still are, our maincustomers, and they are the ones
who pushed us to make it betterand better, to get the chicken
to be air-chilled instead ofwater-chilled, to have more and
(06:09):
more pasture space, to have aheritage breed instead of a
commercial breed.
And with the years we gotbetter and better and pushed by
our clients to do that, and sowe created a relationship of
more than friendship with thosechefs and extreme respect.
(06:29):
I mean all of what they weredoing with our products, what
they are doing with our products.
And they totally respected thefact that we might grow a little
slower than other distributors,other sourcing entities, but
that we were doing it the rightway, without compromise.
(06:49):
And that's how, in the last 37years, 38 years, tartagnan has
been growing slowly, at the pace, without compromise.
When we need more chickens, weadd a farmer to the group.
We don't ask the existingfarmers to go over their
(07:12):
capacities and that's how weended up at the beginning of
COVID.
Covid was an enormous crisisfor me.
It was at the time I was alone.
You know, I had bought out mypartner several, several years
ago before that and COVID wasthe biggest crisis in my life,
(07:33):
seriously, I mean, every daythere was a different.
You have to realize.
March 15, all our customers,the chefs, just closed down, so
we didn't have any morecustomers and the money that
they owed us for 30 days beforewas not paid.
So the pressure was tremendous.
Wow, thank God, the retailstores were asking for products
(07:57):
because everybody was cooking athome and we were able to
develop our website really,really big, because people were
cooking at home and they becamemore adventurous.
They were trying to try thequail and the rabbit and the
duck at home that they hadtasted previously and that they
were missing from the restaurantscene that was closed.
(08:19):
So that's what allowed us tostay alive and to keep all the
employees and not to leaveanybody.
And then, at the end of theCOVID, I think it was time to
sell.
I was tired I hadn't slept forfour years basically because it
(08:40):
was a very, very tense period.
We came out of it really,really well and flourishing,
because our website multipliedby 10, our retail sales
multiplied by five, and then therestaurants came back.
So we were in a very, very goodposition.
(09:01):
But I was afraid of COVIDnumber two.
You know okay another, runanother crisis would come.
I could not face it.
It was too much yeah and sothat's when I decided to sell
and I sold the company and todayI'm.
I helped my daughter.
My daughter started thefoundation, the farm in goshen,
(09:22):
new york oh great, it's a coupleof ways north-northwest of New
York City.
Chef James (09:27):
Okay.
Ariane (09:28):
It's called All for One, one for All Farm.
That's awesome, yeah.
And there we have 14 acres andwe do silvopasture rotation of
the animals, the mammals, thepoultry, we have bees, we have
donkeys, we have a little farmcafe, we do distillery.
(09:48):
We do have our distillerylicense.
Chef James (09:51):
Oh.
Ariane (09:52):
In every fruit that we grow, every plant that we grow.
And at the farm cafe we cook.
It's very egg based, because wehave a lot of very, very good
eggs from our chickens, but alsosalads and soups and sandwiches
, little creme, caramel, and wethat's how we use all the
(10:13):
products of the farm and we areopen to the public every weekend
.
So Friday, saturday, sunday,people come experience the farm.
They do a workshop or two, orthey don't.
They just walk around and seehow things are being raised the
right way and they taste it atthe farm stand, the cafe.
(10:34):
They taste it and they tasteour food and I love it and this
is my new life.
Chef James (10:40):
That is really awesome.
I mean so, you know it's fullcircle You're going right back
to being right into it again.
That's so awesome.
I mean so, you know it's fullcircle You're going right back
to being right into it again.
That's so awesome, wow.
Ariane (10:50):
And it's also very rewarding because I actually see
the people enjoying the food.
That's the one thing that I wasmissing a little bit at
D'Artagnan, where I would sellto the chefs.
The chefs would give mefeedback and that was very
rewarding, Yep, but I didn't seethe end result.
I didn't see like my fatherwhen I grew up, like my father
(11:12):
at the restaurant would.
After cooking he would comedown in the dining room and talk
to people and to have thecomments, to have the happiness
in people, people.
Chef James (11:25):
This is why we're cooking yeah happiness, so well,
and I think the amazing thingis is it really is special how
and how important an upbringingis for a child.
Coming up and being surroundedby that you know, especially
working and seeing your father.
What were your memories likewith that?
(11:46):
I mean that I mean you'retalking about a very talented,
amazing chef.
Ariane (11:51):
It was.
It was a youth.
That was really fun, you know,we on one side he, my, my
brother is a year younger, andthen my little sister is seven
years younger.
So I was closer to my brotherand we would do all the
mischievous things together.
(12:11):
You take your bicycle and 15minutes later you're totally in
the countryside goofing aroundIn the family business.
It was a small family business,a small hotel, restaurant, 27
rooms.
So you have to help.
You know, when it's vacation orafter homework, you have to
(12:34):
help one way or another.
All my youth, my brother, it wasvery clear that my brother had
a kind of like an internshipplan.
You know, he was the desserts,the mise en place, the roasting,
the.
I was helping wherever wasneeded.
(12:55):
It was very clear never said,but very clear that one day he
was going to take over, not me.
I think it's something that wenever talked about.
I didn't.
I don't think I resented at thetime this is, it was normal.
You know, the girls would marryand follow the husband and so
(13:17):
it's the boys who would keep thebusiness.
That was a logical thing atthat time, which has changed a
lot since then, but somewhere, Ithink this is what built me.
This is why I, somewhere, Idecided to leave and to go to
America.
This is why I wanted to show myworth.
This is what drove me tosucceed and to do something
(13:42):
meaningful and to have abusiness that was sustainable
and profitable.
But to go back to the youth, itwas fun.
This is how I learned how topluck a duck and cut it up, and
maybe the chicken and makeconfit and make foie gras with
my grandmother in the jars inthe courtyard After school at
(14:08):
five o'clock with my friends wewould come and raid the garde
manger, you know, and we wouldtake some saucisson hanging
there and the good blob ofbutter and the good country
bread and we would snack.
Chef James (14:28):
Oh, that's amazing.
Ariane (14:30):
No, it was a good time.
Yeah, yeah.
Chef James (14:33):
There's so many reasons why you're important to
me, but like looking at reallythe pioneer opportunity that I
feel like that you had in ourcountry and I do want to just
make a brief mention to, youknow, Judy Prince, and I know I
shared from JB Prince her cominginto New York City in 1977 and
(14:57):
a very challenging time, youknow and saying, well, they, the
chefs over in Europe, have allof these things.
There's something lacking herein the United States.
I mean I'm very proud of all ofour chefs and the many things
that we've really had to catchup with as we pass the baton
(15:18):
between each other.
But to have amazing people likeyou all have this aha moment,
but take your heritage andpackage that into a business to
do what you envision and believein, but really have a
renaissance or a changingmovement in our country.
(15:40):
I mean you're a part of that.
You're huge in that, you know.
Thank you.
Ariane (15:44):
Thank you and I take the compliment and I accept it
happily.
You know I'm proud.
On the other side, I did notinvent anything.
I just what I learned in myyouth and in my roots and I
brought it here.
One example is the green circlechicken Green circle chicken of
(16:07):
D'Artagnan.
It's a chicken that actuallyeats scraps of vegetables at the
end, that has a lot of room toroam around whether it's summer
or winter also, and when it'sprocessed, it's processed not
with dirty ice water but cooledby air so that it doesn't soak
(16:29):
in dirty chlorine.
It actually concentrates thetaste because it's cooled by a
wind, a very cold, uh wind andit makes for the best chicken
possible and all the bestrestaurants in america have our
chickens today, and so I'm veryproud of it.
(16:51):
This is our red circle chicken.
On the other side, I did notinvent it.
This is something that was inrural France all along when I
was growing up.
Chef James (17:10):
I'm throwing out the fact that, before the FDA
allowed or organic was placed onlabeling, that was a part of
just what you did.
Yeah, this wasn't.
Ariane (17:23):
You waited for no one, but that's why I think that's
why our client of choice was thechefs, the professional chefs,
because they had an educationabout that.
In retail it was much moredifficult because we ended up
with a chicken that was 25, 30percent more expensive than the
next chicken and no way on thelabel to be able to explain why
(17:48):
that chicken was more expensivethan the other.
So for a chef, when they lookat my chicken they don't.
They taste it, of course, butthey don't even have to taste it
to understand it's a betterchicken.
Just by the COVID, you know thedryness etc.
But in a retail store withclients who have not been
(18:10):
educated that way and who arevery price conscious not been
educated that way and who arevery price conscious, it was a
big challenge.
So retail came much later andactually COVID helped on the
retail.
Chef James (18:31):
Well, and that was huge too, because a lot of our
local farms here got a very,very hard shot in the arm, a
boost.
People were at home and youknow, yes, there were people
that probably had income.
Was was different than whenthey were working.
You know, I don't want to, Imean expendable income, but just
like they were, they were ableto investigate and educate
themselves on even like thisbirth of sourdough bread.
(18:55):
You know, like people doingthat at home, probably for the
first time since maybe even thefounding of the country, because
it wasn't, you know, therewasn't a lot of bread then
either but like there's thiswhole process where, you know,
the local farms took off, and Ithink that's really says a lot
to as an entrepreneur.
It's like you know the localfarms took off and I think
that's really says a lot too asan entrepreneur.
(19:17):
It's like you see it.
It's like let's move into theretail or, you know, the
e-commerce situation, becausewe've got to keep moving, you
know, and as you went along withdeveloping your company, were
there any like?
I know you mentioned yourchallenges of COVID, but being a
lady entrepreneur and steppinginto this, did you find, you
(19:40):
know, being in a higher maledominated industry, that there
was any bumps or roadblocks foryou or any struggles of the
other sort.
Ariane (19:50):
I can't really say that.
You know, you have to realizeone.
I have this very strong Frenchaccent that I could never get
rid of, and so for some reasonin America, when you have a
French accent, you have thatprejudice that comes with it,
which you probably know betterabout food than the person who
(20:11):
doesn't have your accent.
So I was advantaged by that.
Chef James (20:15):
You know that was really Number two.
Ariane (20:18):
I'm tall, I'm six foot.
I'm not thin, you know.
I'm solid, I'm big, and so Idon't have any problems of
respect.
And so the chefs in thekitchens we were talking the
same language I, I didn't.
(20:38):
I never had this and I neversaw.
Also, um, I always kept myrelationship super professional.
My clients were my clients theybecame friends.
We were, we had a very deepfriendship.
We still have huge friendshipsgoing on, but I never saw sexual
(21:01):
tension, if you want, betweenthe chefs and I.
It was very and it was notdifficult to keep it that way,
you know, to keep it superprofessional.
We're talking about theproducts, professional, we're
talking about the products.
We're talking about the animalhusbandry.
We're talking about the menu.
We're talking about ideas forthe menu and then when we come
(21:24):
from, we can talk about I don'tknow the, the football, football
game or something, but never,never, any.
Um, there was no condensing.
I don't have one example of aproblem because I was a woman.
Chef James (21:40):
Yeah, no, that's wonderful.
Yeah, that says a lot.
I mean that's wonderful to hear.
Yeah, I just thought I wouldthrow it out during the
timeframes of you know comingalong if that ever occurred.
But as you developed, werethere challenges in kind of
networking these farms andgetting these small farms on
board.
Ariane (21:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah At the beginning we went to the low
hanging fruit, and that's theAmish community, amish community
in Pennsylvania, amishcommunity in Indiana.
In Pennsylvania, amishcommunity in Indiana.
The Amish have the samephilosophy, basically, which is
that they were given thisproperty, they were given these
(22:24):
animals, they were givenwhatever they had there and
their, their mission in life wasto give it to the next
generation in better shape thanwhat they were given.
And so, because of that, they,we, we do have the same
philosophy of respecting theanimals and, um, raising them
(22:45):
without stress and the right way, basically, no medication, no
stress, plenty of space, respectfor, uh, the animals.
And so, because of that, it wasnot that difficult to convince
them, because they were alreadydoing it for themselves.
Okay, that animal husbandry,other species.
(23:07):
It was more difficult, you know, to convince the first rancher
to do only grass-fed and nohormones and no antibiotics.
Right, that was much moredifficult.
We grew little by little.
It was easier with poultry andgame burns first and then meat,
and then finally we went intomeat when we had enough of a
(23:31):
span and a volume potential tointerest people like that.
So it was by stage.
But at the beginning, yes,farmers were looking at us like
crazy.
I remember in North Carolinathe quail farmer, bill Odom,
when I went to see him, first ofall he invited me to lunch in a
(23:53):
place where it was dry county.
So when I asked for a glass ofwine, everybody looked at me
like.
And then when I said, ok, Iwould like your quail they look
like nice quail, but I want themfresh.
I don't want them frozen,because at the time he was
(24:14):
selling them just frozen topeople and so he had to change
his whole process in the houseso that I could get them fresh
and the freshest possible.
And you, you do need toestablish serious loyalty ties
(24:35):
and partnership before you canhave something like that.
Because they didn't know us, wewere just starting, how much
volume were we going to make?
Was it worth it?
So it was very difficult toconvince the first farmers.
And then, after a while, whenpeople saw, when farmers and
ranchers saw that when we saidsomething we would do it, when
(24:59):
we said, hey, you raise thatmany, we will buy them.
You raise them this way and wewill buy them at the right price
and on time.
And when they saw that we weredoing that, then all of a sudden
it became much easier and wehad farmers knocking at the door
.
That was not the problem, wow.
(25:20):
And the bottleneck was, andalways is today, the
slaughterhouse.
Chef James (25:27):
Okay.
Ariane (25:27):
There are no more slaughterhouses that are at the
human scale.
You know that are at a scalefor companies like D'Artagnan.
Wow, small slaughterhousesclose every day and the big
slaughterhouses become biggerand bigger.
And so, as a slaughterhouse isbigger and belong to one of the
(25:49):
big five companies, they tend torefuse heritage animals because
they are of a different morphcompanies.
They tend to refuse heritageanimals because they are of a
different morphology, likeBerkshire pork, for example.
It's bigger than the regularpork, it's stuck.
So in order to process them,you need to stop the whole chain
(26:09):
, you need to change the size ofthe hook and then you need to
start again.
That's 20 minutes that 1,000employees are idle.
That's a lot of money, and soit becomes more and more
difficult to find places toprocess animals.
(26:33):
And I think people are startingto realize.
The usda is starting to realizethe universities that have um
agricultural departments arestarting to realize that this is
bad for the community and theum uh and the safety of food,
because when you have somethinglike COVID in a huge place like
(26:56):
that, you have COVID, you closeand then you cannot feed people
anymore, right?
So it's very important toencourage middle-sized and small
slaughterhouses to come backand we've been working closely
with farms bureau from the usdand with places like cornell, to
(27:18):
redevelop that kind of aslaughterhouse or even mobile
slaughterhouse that can go guysand and and kill in the fields
yeah, yeah, wow, okay,interesting.
Chef James (27:32):
well, and the other thing is too.
You know, you've you've dealtwith poultry and charcuterie and
mushrooms, and now we'reD'Artagnan has gone into to
seafood, right.
Ariane (27:43):
So that's after me, that's after I sold the company.
I sold the company to Fortune.
Ok, it's a company that hasbeen doing in fish what
D'Artagnan has been doing inmeat, and so we complete each
other very well, and so Fortuneis now at the end of being able
(28:05):
to integrate the two companiesand to start having fish and
seafood that are of the samecaliber than our meats.
Chef James (28:14):
Okay, oh, very nice.
Okay, wow, any chefs you knowover your time that you know
inspired you or you developed arelationship or any memories
with that?
Ariane (28:26):
They helped us a lot.
So you had the whole Frenchcommunity, you know Jean-Louis
Paladin, michel Richard, butthen you had the whole French
community.
You know Jean-Louis Paladin,michel, richard, yeah.
But then you had the youngerones who are now the seniors,
like Daniel, jean-georges, ericRipper.
And then you had the firstAmericans David Burke, charlie
(28:49):
Palmer.
You had Julia Child, who helpedus a lot.
She took me back.
Chef James (28:53):
I was going to ask you she introduced me to
everybody.
Ariane (28:56):
She was great.
Chef James (28:59):
Wow, how was that working with her?
Ariane (29:03):
She was bigger than life .
I mean, she goes into a room,first of all, she was even
taller than me and bigger thanme, but she would go in the room
and the room would go silent.
You know, she had this charismaand she was extremely respected
by chefs.
So when we, when I would go toBoston, for example, or Los
(29:26):
Angeles, and she was there, shewould introduce me to two people
and immediately the door wasopening for me, because it was
really something, you know, tobe introduced by Julia Child.
That meant something.
Chef James (29:41):
Wow, that's so great .
You know, and again, that'swhere I think with your legacy
of D'Artagnan you've touched.
You know so many people in ourindustry, so you know, thank you
for all of that hard work.
Know so many people in ourindustry, so you know, thank you
for all of that hard work asyou have transitioned.
I mean, and looking back onthat, any advice like
(30:02):
entrepreneurial advice you wouldgive somebody today just
starting their own thing orlooking into the industry, any
thoughts?
Ariane (30:07):
So I think we have today .
We have a planet that is in badhealth.
If you do start a business,please be conscious of that and
try to do your small part.
I'm more and more flagabasted.
I don't know, but every time Igo and see a menu where in the
(30:31):
middle of the winter, you havesomething strawberry with fresh
strawberries yes you have theburrata with a fresh tomato.
Come on, guys.
You know there are ways to doduring the season.
You can make a jam with thestrawberries, you can pickles,
you can make sun-dried tomatoes,you can make a sauce with
(30:52):
tomatoes 10 000 ways to keep thetomato for the winter, but not
fresh.
Don't put fresh out of seasonon your menus, because you know
that that that produce, in orderto come here, had to travel
thousands and thousands of milesor had to be raised inside with
(31:17):
heat, which means energy, whichmeans depleting the earth of
the energy once again, andnutritionally and taste-wise
it's not the same anyway.
So it's so easy to refrain fromusing products that are out of
season.
Just don't put products thatare out of season on your menu.
(31:41):
It's not that complicated.
Chef James (31:44):
No.
Ariane (31:45):
No, it really isn't.
Chef James (31:46):
You know it's the first step.
Yeah, you know, and I think, asa chef too, I take it as a
constructive, positive challengeto use product you know and use
what's in within the season.
I think that that message, youknow, is something that's so
important to place on that menu.
But no, that's such animportant piece.
So, wow, okay, I really reallyenjoyed the opportunity, you
(32:11):
know, to talk to you and connectover all this I really hope
that you come very soon andvisit us at the.
Ariane (32:18):
Yeah, all for one, one for all.
Chef James (32:20):
We also call it a o o a, that is yeah, that's very
musketeer like yeah, yeah, it'sin, gos New York.
Ariane (32:30):
We open every weekend.
Chef James (32:32):
Okay.
Ariane (32:33):
Please come and eat us.
Chef James (32:35):
I would love to.
Ariane (32:36):
And have a taste of our eggs and fresh salad.
Chef James (32:40):
I could only imagine it would probably be a memory
of a lifetime.
So everyone that's listeningagain, if you get that amazing
opportunity, do you have awebsite for the farm at all?
Ariane (32:52):
Yes, it's all110.org.
Okay.
Great, also because it's afoundation.
Chef James (33:02):
Okay, great, all right, and I'll put those links
also in the show notes as wellfor everyone.
Great, so that'll be great Well, ariane, thank you so much for
your time and everything you'vedone in our industry.
You're amazing.
Congratulations on this newventure.
Ariane (33:18):
Thank you and thank you very much for this.
This is awesome.
Chef James (33:22):
My pleasure.
Yeah, all right, everyone.
That is a wrap.
You can check us out if youlike that.
Subscribe Also the InstagramChef Massey.
Let's keep it simple, ChefMassey.
Let's keep it simple,chefmasseycom.
Have a good one.
Bye for now.
Hey everyone, welcome to Chef Sense.
I'm your host, Chef Massey.
Okay, so today on the podcast,what a privilege to have Ariane
Digging here from D'Artagnan.
Thank you for joining us.
No, thank you.
Thank you, James, Having you onChef Sense.
You're such a pillar in ourcountry and, you know, coming in
(00:34):
in 1985, and just harnessingand being a huge part of that
change.
I'm excited for you to sharethat with all of us.
Ariane (00:42):
All right.
Chef James (00:43):
I'm blushing.
First of all.
Well, I'll take that as a hugecompliment.
Can you share with us just yourlineage and your journey and
some things you faced over 36?
, 37 years, 37 years, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ariane (00:58):
Okay, well, here we go.
So I'm from Gascogne, southwestFrance, a long, long lineage of
people in the food business oragriculture farmers, seven
generations behind me.
The latest one, my father, wasa restaurateur and chef, had two
(01:19):
Michelin stars in Hoche, asmall town in the heart of
Gascony, capital of Gascony,where all the three musketeers
came from, where D'Artagnan camefrom, and my father was very,
very proud of his heritage andalso the whole family.
And growing up in that andbeing born and growing up in
(01:44):
that hotel restaurant, I saw howhe was functioning, which
basically was farmers or huntersor fishermen coming with
products that were very fresh,proposing to him stuff and him
working with basically all theproducts seasonal, of the region
, local and nothing else.
(02:06):
And this builds your palate, itdoes build your nutrition sense
and I didn't know any other way.
I didn't know that you couldfactory farm beef in Texas to
make hamburgers.
I didn't know all those things.
I didn't know you could factoryfarm beef in Texas to make
hamburgers.
I didn't know all those things.
(02:26):
I didn't know you could factoryfarm chickens.
There were no factory farmchicken in Gascogne when I grew
up.
All the chickens were outsidepicking on insects all over the
place around the farm the gooseand the ducks for foie gras, a
couple of pigs for thecharcuterie, where we would kill
(02:49):
a pig once a year with thecousins and have all the
charcuterie in the world.
And that's how I grew up.
So when I came here and I tastedthe first time I tasted the
chicken here in 1978 as astudent, I was horrified.
I wasn't even sure I could stayin this country where the
(03:10):
chicken tasted like fish, youknow, and was so mushy and so
falling apart.
It was, ah, what's happening?
Where am I?
You know what happened.
And so I finished my study.
Actually, I didn't finish mystudies.
I dropped out because I ran outof money from Barnard College,
(03:30):
columbia University, and I endedup at the Three Little Pigs.
The Three Little Pigs were thefirst charcuterie salumeria in
French, in New York.
I stayed with them for fouryears and one day arrived a
couple of guys with a foie gras,that fat liver from the duck
(03:55):
and the goose.
And, to make it short, mybosses at the Three Little Pigs
didn't want to go into thatbusiness, but to me it was
really going back to.
I hadn't tasted foie gras sinceI had left france and gasconia.
I was missing it and I saw ahistoric moment in america where
(04:15):
it was the first foie grasgrown from ducks in america.
It did not exist for that.
So I said I need to be involvedin this and and that's how I
left the Three Little Pigs and,with a partner, started my own
company, tartagnan.
And immediately we saw that wecouldn't just survive on the
(04:37):
foie gras and the duck partsthat go with the foie gras and
the whole duck.
That was not enough to make acompany.
So we immediately went tosource good chicken from Amish
farmers who were raising themthe right way, and quail and
rabbit and venison and bison.
(04:58):
And so we started to bespecialized like that in
specialty poultry, specialtymeats.
And immediately in 1985,immediately, all those young
chefs who were coming out of FCIyou know, the French Culinary
Institute, johnson, wales, cia,peter Kemp, that became ICE,
(05:24):
later Cornell all those youngchefs who were traveling to
Europe and coming back, theywanted, they were looking for
that kind of a product.
They wanted to be glorified thedishwasher from the basement of
a restaurant.
They wanted to have good stuffon their menu, and so the timing
(05:49):
was we were very lucky, thetiming was perfect and they were
, and today still are, our maincustomers, and they are the ones
who pushed us to make it betterand better, to get the chicken
to be air-chilled instead ofwater-chilled, to have more and
(06:09):
more pasture space, to have aheritage breed instead of a
commercial breed.
And with the years we gotbetter and better and pushed by
our clients to do that, and sowe created a relationship of
more than friendship with thosechefs and extreme respect.
(06:29):
I mean all of what they weredoing with our products, what
they are doing with our products.
And they totally respected thefact that we might grow a little
slower than other distributors,other sourcing entities, but
that we were doing it the rightway, without compromise.
(06:49):
And that's how, in the last 37years, 38 years, tartagnan has
been growing slowly, at the pace, without compromise.
When we need more chickens, weadd a farmer to the group.
We don't ask the existingfarmers to go over their
(07:12):
capacities and that's how weended up at the beginning of
COVID.
Covid was an enormous crisisfor me.
It was at the time I was alone.
You know, I had bought out mypartner several, several years
ago before that and COVID wasthe biggest crisis in my life,
(07:33):
seriously, I mean, every daythere was a different.
You have to realize.
March 15, all our customers,the chefs, just closed down, so
we didn't have any morecustomers and the money that
they owed us for 30 days beforewas not paid.
So the pressure was tremendous.
Wow, thank God, the retailstores were asking for products
(07:57):
because everybody was cooking athome and we were able to
develop our website really,really big, because people were
cooking at home and they becamemore adventurous.
They were trying to try thequail and the rabbit and the
duck at home that they hadtasted previously and that they
were missing from the restaurantscene that was closed.
(08:19):
So that's what allowed us tostay alive and to keep all the
employees and not to leaveanybody.
And then, at the end of theCOVID, I think it was time to
sell.
I was tired I hadn't slept forfour years basically because it
(08:40):
was a very, very tense period.
We came out of it really,really well and flourishing,
because our website multipliedby 10, our retail sales
multiplied by five, and then therestaurants came back.
So we were in a very, very goodposition.
(09:01):
But I was afraid of COVIDnumber two.
You know okay another, runanother crisis would come.
I could not face it.
It was too much yeah and sothat's when I decided to sell
and I sold the company and todayI'm.
I helped my daughter.
My daughter started thefoundation, the farm in goshen,
(09:22):
new york oh great, it's a coupleof ways north-northwest of New
York City.
Chef James (09:27):
Okay.
Ariane (09:28):
It's called All for One, one for All Farm.
That's awesome, yeah.
And there we have 14 acres andwe do silvopasture rotation of
the animals, the mammals, thepoultry, we have bees, we have
donkeys, we have a little farmcafe, we do distillery.
(09:48):
We do have our distillerylicense.
Chef James (09:51):
Oh.
Ariane (09:52):
In every fruit that we grow, every plant that we grow.
And at the farm cafe we cook.
It's very egg based, because wehave a lot of very, very good
eggs from our chickens, but alsosalads and soups and sandwiches
, little creme, caramel, and wethat's how we use all the
(10:13):
products of the farm and we areopen to the public every weekend
.
So Friday, saturday, sunday,people come experience the farm.
They do a workshop or two, orthey don't.
They just walk around and seehow things are being raised the
right way and they taste it atthe farm stand, the cafe.
(10:34):
They taste it and they tasteour food and I love it and this
is my new life.
Chef James (10:40):
That is really awesome.
I mean so, you know it's fullcircle You're going right back
to being right into it again.
That's so awesome.
I mean so, you know it's fullcircle You're going right back
to being right into it again.
That's so awesome, wow.
Ariane (10:50):
And it's also very rewarding because I actually see
the people enjoying the food.
That's the one thing that I wasmissing a little bit at
D'Artagnan, where I would sellto the chefs.
The chefs would give mefeedback and that was very
rewarding, Yep, but I didn't seethe end result.
I didn't see like my fatherwhen I grew up, like my father
(11:12):
at the restaurant would.
After cooking he would comedown in the dining room and talk
to people and to have thecomments, to have the happiness
in people, people.
Chef James (11:25):
This is why we're cooking yeah happiness, so well,
and I think the amazing thingis is it really is special how
and how important an upbringingis for a child.
Coming up and being surroundedby that you know, especially
working and seeing your father.
What were your memories likewith that?
(11:46):
I mean that I mean you'retalking about a very talented,
amazing chef.
Ariane (11:51):
It was.
It was a youth.
That was really fun, you know,we on one side he, my, my
brother is a year younger, andthen my little sister is seven
years younger.
So I was closer to my brotherand we would do all the
mischievous things together.
(12:11):
You take your bicycle and 15minutes later you're totally in
the countryside goofing aroundIn the family business.
It was a small family business,a small hotel, restaurant, 27
rooms.
So you have to help.
You know, when it's vacation orafter homework, you have to
(12:34):
help one way or another.
All my youth, my brother, it wasvery clear that my brother had
a kind of like an internshipplan.
You know, he was the desserts,the mise en place, the roasting,
the.
I was helping wherever wasneeded.
(12:55):
It was very clear never said,but very clear that one day he
was going to take over, not me.
I think it's something that wenever talked about.
I didn't.
I don't think I resented at thetime this is, it was normal.
You know, the girls would marryand follow the husband and so
(13:17):
it's the boys who would keep thebusiness.
That was a logical thing atthat time, which has changed a
lot since then, but somewhere, Ithink this is what built me.
This is why I, somewhere, Idecided to leave and to go to
America.
This is why I wanted to show myworth.
This is what drove me tosucceed and to do something
(13:42):
meaningful and to have abusiness that was sustainable
and profitable.
But to go back to the youth, itwas fun.
This is how I learned how topluck a duck and cut it up, and
maybe the chicken and makeconfit and make foie gras with
my grandmother in the jars inthe courtyard After school at
(14:08):
five o'clock with my friends wewould come and raid the garde
manger, you know, and we wouldtake some saucisson hanging
there and the good blob ofbutter and the good country
bread and we would snack.
Chef James (14:28):
Oh, that's amazing.
Ariane (14:30):
No, it was a good time.
Yeah, yeah.
Chef James (14:33):
There's so many reasons why you're important to
me, but like looking at reallythe pioneer opportunity that I
feel like that you had in ourcountry and I do want to just
make a brief mention to, youknow, Judy Prince, and I know I
shared from JB Prince her cominginto New York City in 1977 and
(14:57):
a very challenging time, youknow and saying, well, they, the
chefs over in Europe, have allof these things.
There's something lacking herein the United States.
I mean I'm very proud of all ofour chefs and the many things
that we've really had to catchup with as we pass the baton
(15:18):
between each other.
But to have amazing people likeyou all have this aha moment,
but take your heritage andpackage that into a business to
do what you envision and believein, but really have a
renaissance or a changingmovement in our country.
(15:40):
I mean you're a part of that.
You're huge in that, you know.
Thank you.
Ariane (15:44):
Thank you and I take the compliment and I accept it
happily.
You know I'm proud.
On the other side, I did notinvent anything.
I just what I learned in myyouth and in my roots and I
brought it here.
One example is the green circlechicken Green circle chicken of
(16:07):
D'Artagnan.
It's a chicken that actuallyeats scraps of vegetables at the
end, that has a lot of room toroam around whether it's summer
or winter also, and when it'sprocessed, it's processed not
with dirty ice water but cooledby air so that it doesn't soak
(16:29):
in dirty chlorine.
It actually concentrates thetaste because it's cooled by a
wind, a very cold, uh wind andit makes for the best chicken
possible and all the bestrestaurants in america have our
chickens today, and so I'm veryproud of it.
(16:51):
This is our red circle chicken.
On the other side, I did notinvent it.
This is something that was inrural France all along when I
was growing up.
Chef James (17:10):
I'm throwing out the fact that, before the FDA
allowed or organic was placed onlabeling, that was a part of
just what you did.
Yeah, this wasn't.
Ariane (17:23):
You waited for no one, but that's why I think that's
why our client of choice was thechefs, the professional chefs,
because they had an educationabout that.
In retail it was much moredifficult because we ended up
with a chicken that was 25, 30percent more expensive than the
next chicken and no way on thelabel to be able to explain why
(17:48):
that chicken was more expensivethan the other.
So for a chef, when they lookat my chicken they don't.
They taste it, of course, butthey don't even have to taste it
to understand it's a betterchicken.
Just by the COVID, you know thedryness etc.
But in a retail store withclients who have not been
(18:10):
educated that way and who arevery price conscious not been
educated that way and who arevery price conscious, it was a
big challenge.
So retail came much later andactually COVID helped on the
retail.
Chef James (18:31):
Well, and that was huge too, because a lot of our
local farms here got a very,very hard shot in the arm, a
boost.
People were at home and youknow, yes, there were people
that probably had income.
Was was different than whenthey were working.
You know, I don't want to, Imean expendable income, but just
like they were, they were ableto investigate and educate
themselves on even like thisbirth of sourdough bread.
(18:55):
You know, like people doingthat at home, probably for the
first time since maybe even thefounding of the country, because
it wasn't, you know, therewasn't a lot of bread then
either but like there's thiswhole process where, you know,
the local farms took off, and Ithink that's really says a lot
to as an entrepreneur.
It's like you know the localfarms took off and I think
that's really says a lot too asan entrepreneur.
(19:17):
It's like you see it.
It's like let's move into theretail or, you know, the
e-commerce situation, becausewe've got to keep moving, you
know, and as you went along withdeveloping your company, were
there any like?
I know you mentioned yourchallenges of COVID, but being a
lady entrepreneur and steppinginto this, did you find, you
(19:40):
know, being in a higher maledominated industry, that there
was any bumps or roadblocks foryou or any struggles of the
other sort.
Ariane (19:50):
I can't really say that.
You know, you have to realizeone.
I have this very strong Frenchaccent that I could never get
rid of, and so for some reasonin America, when you have a
French accent, you have thatprejudice that comes with it,
which you probably know betterabout food than the person who
(20:11):
doesn't have your accent.
So I was advantaged by that.
Chef James (20:15):
You know that was really Number two.
Ariane (20:18):
I'm tall, I'm six foot.
I'm not thin, you know.
I'm solid, I'm big, and so Idon't have any problems of
respect.
And so the chefs in thekitchens we were talking the
same language I, I didn't.
(20:38):
I never had this and I neversaw.
Also, um, I always kept myrelationship super professional.
My clients were my clients theybecame friends.
We were, we had a very deepfriendship.
We still have huge friendshipsgoing on, but I never saw sexual
(21:01):
tension, if you want, betweenthe chefs and I.
It was very and it was notdifficult to keep it that way,
you know, to keep it superprofessional.
We're talking about theproducts, professional, we're
talking about the products.
We're talking about the animalhusbandry.
We're talking about the menu.
We're talking about ideas forthe menu and then when we come
(21:24):
from, we can talk about I don'tknow the, the football, football
game or something, but never,never, any.
Um, there was no condensing.
I don't have one example of aproblem because I was a woman.
Chef James (21:40):
Yeah, no, that's wonderful.
Yeah, that says a lot.
I mean that's wonderful to hear.
Yeah, I just thought I wouldthrow it out during the
timeframes of you know comingalong if that ever occurred.
But as you developed, werethere challenges in kind of
networking these farms andgetting these small farms on
board.
Ariane (21:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah At the beginning we went to the low
hanging fruit, and that's theAmish community, amish community
in Pennsylvania, amishcommunity in Indiana.
In Pennsylvania, amishcommunity in Indiana.
The Amish have the samephilosophy, basically, which is
that they were given thisproperty, they were given these
(22:24):
animals, they were givenwhatever they had there and
their, their mission in life wasto give it to the next
generation in better shape thanwhat they were given.
And so, because of that, they,we, we do have the same
philosophy of respecting theanimals and, um, raising them
(22:45):
without stress and the right way, basically, no medication, no
stress, plenty of space, respectfor, uh, the animals.
And so, because of that, it wasnot that difficult to convince
them, because they were alreadydoing it for themselves.
Okay, that animal husbandry,other species.
(23:07):
It was more difficult, you know, to convince the first rancher
to do only grass-fed and nohormones and no antibiotics.
Right, that was much moredifficult.
We grew little by little.
It was easier with poultry andgame burns first and then meat,
and then finally we went intomeat when we had enough of a
(23:31):
span and a volume potential tointerest people like that.
So it was by stage.
But at the beginning, yes,farmers were looking at us like
crazy.
I remember in North Carolinathe quail farmer, bill Odom,
when I went to see him, first ofall he invited me to lunch in a
(23:53):
place where it was dry county.
So when I asked for a glass ofwine, everybody looked at me
like.
And then when I said, ok, Iwould like your quail they look
like nice quail, but I want themfresh.
I don't want them frozen,because at the time he was
(24:14):
selling them just frozen topeople and so he had to change
his whole process in the houseso that I could get them fresh
and the freshest possible.
And you, you do need toestablish serious loyalty ties
(24:35):
and partnership before you canhave something like that.
Because they didn't know us, wewere just starting, how much
volume were we going to make?
Was it worth it?
So it was very difficult toconvince the first farmers.
And then, after a while, whenpeople saw, when farmers and
ranchers saw that when we saidsomething we would do it, when
(24:59):
we said, hey, you raise thatmany, we will buy them.
You raise them this way and wewill buy them at the right price
and on time.
And when they saw that we weredoing that, then all of a sudden
it became much easier and wehad farmers knocking at the door
.
That was not the problem, wow.
(25:20):
And the bottleneck was, andalways is today, the
slaughterhouse.
Chef James (25:27):
Okay.
Ariane (25:27):
There are no more slaughterhouses that are at the
human scale.
You know that are at a scalefor companies like D'Artagnan.
Wow, small slaughterhousesclose every day and the big
slaughterhouses become biggerand bigger.
And so, as a slaughterhouse isbigger and belong to one of the
(25:49):
big five companies, they tend torefuse heritage animals because
they are of a different morphcompanies.
They tend to refuse heritageanimals because they are of a
different morphology, likeBerkshire pork, for example.
It's bigger than the regularpork, it's stuck.
So in order to process them,you need to stop the whole chain
(26:09):
, you need to change the size ofthe hook and then you need to
start again.
That's 20 minutes that 1,000employees are idle.
That's a lot of money, and soit becomes more and more
difficult to find places toprocess animals.
(26:33):
And I think people are startingto realize.
The usda is starting to realizethe universities that have um
agricultural departments arestarting to realize that this is
bad for the community and theum uh and the safety of food,
because when you have somethinglike COVID in a huge place like
(26:56):
that, you have COVID, you closeand then you cannot feed people
anymore, right?
So it's very important toencourage middle-sized and small
slaughterhouses to come backand we've been working closely
with farms bureau from the usdand with places like cornell, to
(27:18):
redevelop that kind of aslaughterhouse or even mobile
slaughterhouse that can go guysand and and kill in the fields
yeah, yeah, wow, okay,interesting.
Chef James (27:32):
well, and the other thing is too.
You know, you've you've dealtwith poultry and charcuterie and
mushrooms, and now we'reD'Artagnan has gone into to
seafood, right.
Ariane (27:43):
So that's after me, that's after I sold the company.
I sold the company to Fortune.
Ok, it's a company that hasbeen doing in fish what
D'Artagnan has been doing inmeat, and so we complete each
other very well, and so Fortuneis now at the end of being able
(28:05):
to integrate the two companiesand to start having fish and
seafood that are of the samecaliber than our meats.
Chef James (28:14):
Okay, oh, very nice.
Okay, wow, any chefs you knowover your time that you know
inspired you or you developed arelationship or any memories
with that?
Ariane (28:26):
They helped us a lot.
So you had the whole Frenchcommunity, you know Jean-Louis
Paladin, michel Richard, butthen you had the whole French
community.
You know Jean-Louis Paladin,michel, richard, yeah.
But then you had the youngerones who are now the seniors,
like Daniel, jean-georges, ericRipper.
And then you had the firstAmericans David Burke, charlie
(28:49):
Palmer.
You had Julia Child, who helpedus a lot.
She took me back.
Chef James (28:53):
I was going to ask you she introduced me to
everybody.
Ariane (28:56):
She was great.
Chef James (28:59):
Wow, how was that working with her?
Ariane (29:03):
She was bigger than life .
I mean, she goes into a room,first of all, she was even
taller than me and bigger thanme, but she would go in the room
and the room would go silent.
You know, she had this charismaand she was extremely respected
by chefs.
So when we, when I would go toBoston, for example, or Los
(29:26):
Angeles, and she was there, shewould introduce me to two people
and immediately the door wasopening for me, because it was
really something, you know, tobe introduced by Julia Child.
That meant something.
Chef James (29:41):
Wow, that's so great .
You know, and again, that'swhere I think with your legacy
of D'Artagnan you've touched.
You know so many people in ourindustry, so you know, thank you
for all of that hard work.
Know so many people in ourindustry, so you know, thank you
for all of that hard work asyou have transitioned.
I mean, and looking back onthat, any advice like
(30:02):
entrepreneurial advice you wouldgive somebody today just
starting their own thing orlooking into the industry, any
thoughts?
Ariane (30:07):
So I think we have today .
We have a planet that is in badhealth.
If you do start a business,please be conscious of that and
try to do your small part.
I'm more and more flagabasted.
I don't know, but every time Igo and see a menu where in the
(30:31):
middle of the winter, you havesomething strawberry with fresh
strawberries yes you have theburrata with a fresh tomato.
Come on, guys.
You know there are ways to doduring the season.
You can make a jam with thestrawberries, you can pickles,
you can make sun-dried tomatoes,you can make a sauce with
(30:52):
tomatoes 10 000 ways to keep thetomato for the winter, but not
fresh.
Don't put fresh out of seasonon your menus, because you know
that that that produce, in orderto come here, had to travel
thousands and thousands of milesor had to be raised inside with
(31:17):
heat, which means energy, whichmeans depleting the earth of
the energy once again, andnutritionally and taste-wise
it's not the same anyway.
So it's so easy to refrain fromusing products that are out of
season.
Just don't put products thatare out of season on your menu.
(31:41):
It's not that complicated.
Chef James (31:44):
No.
Ariane (31:45):
No, it really isn't.
Chef James (31:46):
You know it's the first step.
Yeah, you know, and I think, asa chef too, I take it as a
constructive, positive challengeto use product you know and use
what's in within the season.
I think that that message, youknow, is something that's so
important to place on that menu.
But no, that's such animportant piece.
So, wow, okay, I really reallyenjoyed the opportunity, you
(32:11):
know, to talk to you and connectover all this I really hope
that you come very soon andvisit us at the.
Ariane (32:18):
Yeah, all for one, one for all.
Chef James (32:20):
We also call it a o o a, that is yeah, that's very
musketeer like yeah, yeah, it'sin, gos New York.
Ariane (32:30):
We open every weekend.
Chef James (32:32):
Okay.
Ariane (32:33):
Please come and eat us.
Chef James (32:35):
I would love to.
Ariane (32:36):
And have a taste of our eggs and fresh salad.
Chef James (32:40):
I could only imagine it would probably be a memory
of a lifetime.
So everyone that's listeningagain, if you get that amazing
opportunity, do you have awebsite for the farm at all?
Ariane (32:52):
Yes, it's all110.org.
Okay.
Great, also because it's afoundation.
Chef James (33:02):
Okay, great, all right, and I'll put those links
also in the show notes as wellfor everyone.
Great, so that'll be great Well, ariane, thank you so much for
your time and everything you'vedone in our industry.
You're amazing.
Congratulations on this newventure.
Ariane (33:18):
Thank you and thank you very much for this.
This is awesome.
Chef James (33:22):
My pleasure.
Yeah, all right, everyone.
That is a wrap.
You can check us out if youlike that.
Subscribe Also the InstagramChef Massey.
Let's keep it simple, ChefMassey.
Let's keep it simple,chefmasseycom.
Have a good one.
Bye for now.
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