February 21, 2024 • 46 mins
Navigating the high-stakes environment of the culinary world, we often forget to look beyond the sizzle of the skillet to the wellbeing of those who wield it. On the latest episode of Chef Sense, we're joined by Jasmin from CHOW, who illuminates the stark reality of mental health in the food and beverage industry. From the shadow of depression to the struggle against addiction, we discuss the urgency of peer support and the pivotal role of tailored resources for our kin behind the kitchen doors.
The conversation turns to the impact of our kitchen culture, not just on us chefs but also on our families. We dissect the transformative potential of leadership that fosters respect and empathy, and how this cultural shift can spearhead a cycle of rejuvenation in the workplace.
We wrap things up with practical steps toward a brighter horizon for hospitality professionals. CHOW's toolkit for workplace wellness and the heartening stories of positive change from our listeners remind us that recognition and understanding can lead to a revolutionized kitchen culture.
Thank you to Jasmin and the team at CHOW!!
https://chowco.org/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chef James (00:14):
Hey everyone, welcome to Chef Sense.
I'm your host, chef Massey.
We have CHOW coming on.
I just wanted to do a briefintroduction for them.
Their acronym stands forCulinary Hospitality, outreach
and Wellness.
They are a very specialnonprofit organization that
provides an outreach for all ofus in the food and beverage
(00:35):
industry.
You'll hear Jasmine talk aboutthat, but I want to go over some
numbers that they actuallydisplay in their research 63% of
food and beverage hospitalityprofessionals suffer from
depression.
84% of food and beverage andhospitality workers feel stress
from their jobs, 65% of food andbeverage hospitality workers
(00:58):
report using substances while atwork and 53% of food and
beverage hospitality workersfeel they've been pushed to
their breaking point.
And so, yes, those are verytough numbers that we just
listen to.
But the great thing is thatthere are organizations like
CHOW.
They are built for us.
(01:19):
Because they're built by peoplethat are us, we can take
advantage of these opportunitiesto go.
You know what?
I'm not in a good place, I needa minute, I need to evaluate
some things, and how do I goabout doing that?
Again, we've all been a part ofthis industry where you're
dealing with outside life andthe stressors and all of that,
(01:44):
not to mention a career paththat expects perfection at every
turn.
So today we have places likethis, people like this that are
there to help us work on thesethings for a better and brighter
and more longevity in theindustry, and I think it's very
important that we use tools likethis.
(02:06):
Love you guys.
Let's roll into the episode.
Today we have Jasmin from CHOW,so excited to have you on.
Thank you.
Jasmin (02:15):
Thank you for having me.
We are so excited to be able toparticipate.
These opportunities areinvaluable to our organization
and I really appreciate it.
If you could go into.
Chef James (02:26):
You know how CHOW started and how this kind of
came for fruition.
It's really amazing story.
Jasmin (02:30):
Yes, thank you.
A few years ago I think we'reselling liberating.
We're coming up on our fifthbirthday Essentially our founder
, john Hinman, who is a businessowner, pie maker extraordinaire
.
He was very active in the foodbeverage hospitality community
and once he embarked on hisrecovery journey and returned to
the food beverage hospitalityindustry, having amassed a lot
(02:53):
of skills, tools and resources,you know, to assist him on his
recovery journey, he thenreturned to the industry and
found a lot of what he had feltbefore he left.
So he had this idea to gathereverybody to talk about where it
hurts.
That was his initial idea.
The hurt we can't see, how dowe address it?
(03:15):
How do we learn to haveconversations centered around it
?
And, as it happens, we lostAnthony Bourdain a couple of
days after this meeting wasscheduled, and so what could
have been just a couple ofpeople getting together in his
bakery and talking really endedup being a whole lot of people
showing up and talking aboutwhat was hurting them, what
(03:37):
their successes and struggleswere.
And that was essentially thefirst CHOW meeting.
And then, slowly, folks likemyself and Aaron Boyle, chow's
CEO, we just kind of started asattendees who then wanted to
start our own chapters of CHOWso that we could bring CHOW to
other areas of Colorado and CHOWstarted having, you know, chow,
(04:02):
colorado Springs, chow,steamboat Springs, chow Vale,
and we were incredibly fortunate, through the pandemic, to be
able to switch to an onlineslash hybrid model.
So current yeah, all of ourmeetings happen in person in
Colorado.
We are currently expandingoutside of Colorado, but they
(04:22):
are accessible and availablefrom anywhere in the world.
So folks have been joining usfrom literally anywhere in the
world in our Zoom rooms andwe've also expanded to education
, which is available, onlineresource brokering, and we pride
ourselves on being a listeningorganization.
So the more needs come upwithin the food, beverage and
(04:43):
hospitality community that weare made aware of, the more we
develop programming to meetthose needs.
Chef James (04:48):
Okay and that's just amazing.
You know, looking at theprocess and, like you had said,
you know people coming in andzooming in and being a part of
those meetings.
You know I have done that andin that process, you know,
working through my career path,recognizing how important mental
health really is in you knowthe industry and really how much
(05:10):
it has been really swept underthe rug in many different
aspects and so many of them andI guess for me I go.
You know I've been in the foodbeverage industry over 30 years,
22 years in executive chef.
So I guess in a sense for manyof us it's it kind of raises you
up.
The industry is raises you.
(05:32):
You're going along in thatprocess with leadership and the
stress of what we deal with andyou know you're also as a human
being, right, like you'relearning yourself as a person,
you know, not just an employeein the industry, but then if you
step into leadership you'regoing right into that and you're
growing too.
So you guys are so specialbecause I think this opportunity
(05:53):
today where someone can go intothose meetings, you know, and
we're going to those key speakermeetings, which are just great,
it does remind me a lot of a 12step program of how those rooms
operate.
Jasmin (06:08):
So yeah, we started off.
You know, the question that weused to get so much when we
first started is is this a forchefs?
Is that what you're saying?
Yeah, right, yes, there'sdefinitely we pride ourselves on
.
You know, chow is here becausewe call it.
CHOW is us helping us.
(06:28):
This based on the idea that, youknow, currently studies show us
that the food beveragehospitality industry is growing
at immense rates, so thatcurrently, if every clinical
certified mental health providerwere to fill their docket
completely with hospitalityworkers, we would still
outnumber them 29 times over.
Wow, yeah, that is a staggeringstatistic.
(06:51):
So we think, now that you know,not only do we not have basic
foundational access to mentalhealth care, right, most folks
work in the industry, areunderinsured, marginalized and
often not earning enough to payfor therapy out of pocket.
And so we've figured out thatthe peer support model, right,
having a person in the room whois mediating the conversation.
(07:13):
And here's, I think, where wediffer a little bit in, where we
diverge a little from that 12step model.
Our rooms are moderated bysomeone called an expose, right,
it's a term we're familiar withwho just kind of facilitates
the conversation between theattendees and the general
temperature of the room.
So we start off by doing atemperature take, because we are
industry folks, so we oftenhave more words for food than we
(07:36):
have for our feelings.
We check in on a scale of rareto well done.
Rare meaning juicy, full oflife.
Well done meaning I've been onthe grill for far too long.
Take me off, I'm tapping out,and this expose what they're
doing is based on thetemperature shares in the room.
They're finding a common threadof conversation to bring the
conversation forward andeverybody walks away with the
(07:58):
takeaway.
So it's met with skills,resources, a person that's going
to check up on your temperaturethe week after.
So there's this idea that, eventhough we are not clinical
mental health providers thatarmed with the same resources
and the same systems of support,that we can essentially build a
(08:19):
sustainable workforce from theground up where everybody has
equal resources, versus thiskind of outdated hierarchical
model that the industry has beenfunctioning on for so long,
where we have the kind ofmanagers, owners and operators
perintified up here.
And they are largely responsiblefor the employee and there's
such a big discrepancy with thatright.
Chef James (08:41):
Right, wow, that's amazing.
How are you feeling like, in asense, feedback, as this is
building?
I mean it's doing very well.
Jasmin (08:49):
It is.
We're growing immensely.
We are incredibly grateful formost of us.
Aaron and I have been therejust about since the beginning
and it has been a huge labor oflove for us.
We currently have folks who arestill in the industry, but
Aaron and I are industryveterans.
I'll speak to myself personally.
I got involved with CHOWbecause I worked through half of
(09:14):
the pandemic and my careergenerally used to fluctuate, in
the sense that when I was doingthe best career-wise, it's when
my mental health was often doingthe worst.
You know, I kind of I was aproduct of the great resignation
and I kind of had to look atmyself and see, you know, it
doesn't get much higher thanthis.
So I'm an executive chef, I'mhead of food and beverage, of
(09:34):
the whole food and beveragedepartment, and I'm just not
doing well and odds are that inyou.
Unless I figure out what it isthat makes it so that when I'm
working, when my career is justoff the charts, that I'm
struggling so much personally,then I won't be able to stay in
the industry, and so a lot ofwhat we do is centered around
(09:55):
the idea that we don't wantfolks to leave the industry we
want folks to do what they'repassionate about and continue to
live well and to be able toshow up to work as
whole-supported human beings.
So it's for sure a labor oflove for us.
Chef James (10:09):
Oh, absolutely, I mean it's.
That's just remarkable, youknow, and I think looking at it
it's so interesting because Ikind of came up in that model
which you know, I know you'reaware of.
Is that the old school toughlove, or like you never really
shared your feelings, like ifyou said you couldn't handle
something.
That just wasn't acceptable.
(10:30):
You know, and there's just somany challenges that we deal
with in our industry that youknow men and women deal with
Women most definitely.
You know, for me coming up toowith the glass ceiling and some
of these challenges.
So there's a lot to talk aboutin our industry and I really
love our people and we're sodiversified in just this huge
(10:55):
melting pot of culture andeverything.
It's pretty special.
So to be able to work this, youknow this process and take care
of yourself, it's, I think forsome of us it can be kind of
uncomfortable in the beginning,you know.
So how has that been?
And you know some of us kind ofbeing okay with sitting where
(11:16):
we are and those thoughts andemotions, that we're just kind
of understanding that andworking the process.
Jasmin (11:21):
Yeah, I that's an excellent question.
I'm I like to characterize asmyself.
I like to characterize myselfas a person who is in long term
emotional recovery.
I left the industry three yearsago and I am still a person who
attends two child supportgroups a week and I go to
therapy weekly and I do this sothat I can learn how to be a
(11:44):
human being in a way that Inever knew before.
I'm a third generation chef.
My father was a chef whoparented oh that's awesome, yeah
, like he chef.
And so that that kind of likedysfunction of the food and
beverage hospitality industrythe offbeat hours, you know, the
very the, the loud directions,rapid fire directions shouted at
(12:07):
you that kind of dysfunctionand chaos was very familiar and
very comfortable for me, sure, Iwould imagine.
Yeah, and then leaving the thequiet and trying to integrate
into you know, civilian life.
Chef James (12:20):
Right right.
Jasmin (12:22):
It was impossible and, if you think about it, many of
the systems that we are moldedafter right Like the military.
When folks leave the military,it will be the time, and whether
these systems work or not is acompletely different
conversation.
But there are systems to checkon people to make sure that they
can re reintegrate into society, because they recognize that
(12:43):
they have largely been livingmarginalized for years.
Sure, our industry is modeledafter the military brigade
system, but when you stop beinga chef, when you start working
hospitality, the hospitalityindustry spits you back out with
your opposing work hours andyour disordered eating habits.
And or you know, propensity forloudness.
(13:03):
It spits you back out.
It's cool, Pick yourself up andyou know, go do something else.
I found that to be incrediblyalienating.
I struggled so much in my and Ihave a bachelor's in marketing,
so I had something to fall on.
But my wife never made thatconnection.
I said you know, I've been.
I've been working in kitchensince I was 18 years old.
I've never been anything else.
(13:25):
I will never be anything else.
Where do I come from here?
And at CHOW, which is that weneed vocationally specific
resources.
We have vocationally specificchallenges.
I started going to therapy rightafter I left the industry,
because I knew I wasn't going tobe able to integrate on my own,
(13:45):
and oftentimes the things thatI was just explaining to my
therapist were things that theyjust couldn't get on board
behind.
You know.
Chef James (13:53):
Right.
Jasmin (13:54):
It's difficult to talk to a mental health professional
even when I was in the industryand say you know, I am burnt out
and I can't go to work tomorrowand explain to them you know
how compulsive that need feelsto have to go to work tomorrow
Because we're understaffed.
I can't sit this out.
Chef James (14:10):
I'm a leader If I sit in it Right.
Jasmin (14:12):
But will the rest of my staff do?
Because to them it was justlike set a boundary and meet
that boundary, and I was likeyou don't understand how it
works in the industry.
There is no boundary I'mexpected to show up Right.
So it wasn't until I went into aCHOW room.
You know very different of howthe system would work, because I
was a little bit you know justa little cautious with therapy.
(14:34):
I didn't feel very understood.
And then I walked into a Chaoroom and everybody is talking
about the same things that I'mfeeling Right.
Here are my struggles, here aremy successes.
And I was like, well, dang metoo.
Chef James (14:45):
Oh right, that's.
Amazing.
Jasmin (14:47):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
It was a game changer for me,and you know also the reframe
for us that we like to do thisreframe.
Self-care is a very marked termnowadays.
Chef James (14:57):
Yeah.
Jasmin (14:58):
For folks like us, industry folks.
We hear self-care and we thinkyou know bath bombs and days off
and like that we reframe thatterm and we say it's actually
self-service and you alreadyknow service, yes, service, you
know like the back of your hand.
So really let's reframe thatidea.
Take the bath bomb out andlet's look at self-service like
(15:18):
what can Tuesday Jasmine do toset up Thursday Jasmine In the
smallest possible way?
Can I take those 10 cans of RedBulls that I drink on the line
and turn them in to eat and thenhave a bottle of water at can
number four.
Because that's a win, that'sabsolutely a win.
Chef James (15:35):
Yeah, yeah, wow.
Well, I think what's reallycool is that you guys have
structured this so that you'respeaking our lingo, because you
come from us, you know, and tohear that you go okay, it's a
very co-dependent relationshipthat you have with your team and
your environment and to be ableto take what you're sharing and
(15:57):
going okay.
These check valves are veryimportant for yourself, which we
just steamrolled over, and theyend up going into maladaptive
behaviors, you know, and canoftentimes lead to addiction.
And that's a tough thing is.
You know there's many peoplethat are in it and in that
addiction, or there's some thatyou know I've buried,
(16:19):
unfortunately, over the years,and it just, you know, those
sorts of things kind of resonatewith you.
You know, like you're saying, Imean it's in your DNA and you
know whether it'smulti-generational colonnarians
that you're a part of in yourDNA to being raised by an
industry of beautiful misfitsthat it becomes the new you and
(16:42):
you know I often say it's calleddisruding.
How do I get out of that rut?
And that's where, for me, youknow, like you said, I, you know
, I've been in those rooms andthose rooms are so special.
It's a spiritual experiencewith people, with all of us in
there and because you've, youknow, again you're going back to
the militaristic concept of akitchen.
(17:05):
You know we are battle seasoned.
I mean, many of us work so hardfor that one shot to get into
the next level and we haven'tfully seasoned, you know, as a
leader, and we step right intoit and it's just, you know,
you're inundated.
I mean you're learning by fireconstantly.
(17:25):
So, yeah, I totally get it.
It's amazing, these you knowbeing able to share with people.
So yeah, for sure.
Jasmin (17:35):
Yeah, that's definitely.
I like to call myself the chowposter child for success,
because it was definitely a bigpart of why I'm so passionate
about the work that we do isbecause it largely worked on me.
It gave me a sense of communityat a point in my life where I'd
never felt more marginalized.
The camaraderie we don't talkoften about, this band of misfit
(17:57):
toys.
Essentially, we say we're afamily for a reason, by ignoring
the typical red flags that comewhen we characterize something
as a family.
That means that it comes withan inherent kind of
dysfunctional value system andall of that.
But I felt when I first leftthat I was never going to
experience camaraderie like thatagain.
(18:18):
And I know now that that's nottrue.
There's something on the sideof that.
But that feeling for the firstcouple of months left me bereft.
I was like this part of mypersonality is just never going
to feel nurture like it did and,to be honest, I think I'm one
of the.
I've had to do a lot of amendssince leaving the industry.
(18:40):
I was mentored with a lot ofviolence and abuse.
Yeah, I started cooking.
Yeah, and I was a very I was avery big participant in that as
well, I think, being in theUnited States where there's a
lot more monitoring and HRdepartments probably from being
as harmful as I could have been,but I had to make a lot of
(19:03):
amends and sit with that theidea it's true that I didn't
know better, so I couldn't dobetter, but also that I hold a
lot of responsibility in reallypropagating these harmful
stereotypes of what leadershiplooks like in the back of the
house, of the kitchen, andthat's a really difficult thing
to sit with if you don't havepeople to hold it with you.
(19:25):
So the ability to say that in aroom I have been a damaging
leader, I have done damage tothe folks that I worked with and
can anybody relate to that andbeing able to extend that
vulnerability to myself and tonot be met with judgment because
so many understand it.
(19:45):
That was exceptional Instruments, my growth and healing process.
Chef James (19:51):
And that's amazing.
Going back to our foundation,even though we came up a bit
differently, what do you findattracted you into this caravan?
Jasmin (20:04):
Yeah, that's a good question.
I've been thinking about thatfor years and I think in my case
it was kind of inevitable.
I do think that when one of yourparents works in the
hospitality industry and wedon't talk about this enough
because we talk about children,for example, that come from a
military family, right, theyhave an entire awareness month
(20:24):
dedicated to them for theirresilience and the things that
we recognize that militarychildren have to go without in
order to have a parent in themilitary, and I'm not likening
those two experiences myhusband's in the military so I
know I understand the extent towhich my own children suffer at
long term separation.
But as a child who was raisedby a chef and business owner,
(20:49):
there was no holidays at home.
It was largely like holidayshosted at the restaurant, where
the family is sitting at one ofthe tables and everyone else is
being served and there's adattle.
Come out of the kitchen for acouple of minutes to blow out
your birthday candles, but we'relargely just having dinner at
the restaurant because that'sthe only way you can get them to
interact.
(21:09):
So to me there was a lot ofnormality very early on.
It was like take a couple ofshifts and help us out with the
register, take a couple ofserving shifts and help us out
with this.
I'm incredibly grateful for thework ethic that it instilled in
me that I started very, veryearly, that I was able to pursue
a four year bachelor's degreewhile at the same time working
(21:30):
full time in a kitchen.
So it felt inevitable becauseit felt incredibly comfortable
and familiar.
I knew I could see that thatsense of relief when service was
over for my dad and that aftershift, drink and the cold of the
restaurants and it seemedincredibly attractive to me.
(21:51):
I also came up in the generationof idolizing the Marco Pierre
White and the Anthony Bourdainof the world and I didn't see
myself represented in thatindustry right, because I still
think to this day we do not havea female equivalent of Anthony
Bourdain.
But no, and teenage me wasenamored with these men behind
the line.
It was just like I'm gonna makeyeah, Wow.
Chef James (22:15):
And the thing is too , I think, going into it,
looking at the other, as we'retalking about generations,
seeing how our industry hasshifted food, TV and social
media has really glamorized manyyears of the industry and
sucked people in, and today Ithink there's more of this
(22:39):
understanding of mental healthand space and boundaries.
So when you have the nextgeneration is coming in and
going, well, yeah, I'll pick upand do this and that, but I need
to.
I have an outside life or Ihave these things going on and
we never did that.
So maybe at one point I've gotto like I'm a little jealous,
(23:04):
you know, but at the same time,it's great that we are taking
that notice and we're going waita minute, no, we do need to
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Jasmin (23:54):
I love it.
To be honest with you, I have anine year old daughter who, up
until recently, wanted to be achef, just like mama, and that
used to terrify me when she usedto say and, and now you know,
the last time she said it a fewmonths ago, I can kind of like
temperature check the thingsthat I'm, that I'm seeing and
I'm like this is that's what I'mdoing.
(24:16):
I want, I want to play aninstrumental role in building
the industry that I deserved andso many of us deserved, Because
there are so many passionatepeople that love food and love
hospitality and they deserve tobe met with resources and
support and encouragement to beable to live their life well.
(24:36):
And you know, we often hearthis we're we're lucky enough to
be able to participate inlistening tours where we'll be
able to organize, you know,different geographical locations
.
We get business owners,managers and operators in a room
together and we say you knowwhat's working, what's not?
Tell us what you think.
And we conduct surveys withtheir staff to see how those
(24:58):
answers and questions kind ofstack up against each other.
And Aaron and I were recently ina room where where somebody
said you know, I've been in thisindustry for 37 years.
And now these younger kids arecoming in and they're this is
their first job and they'retalking to me about the shifts
that I can handle and shiftsthat I can't handle.
And I've been working 16 hourson my feet 37 years, yeah, and
(25:21):
you know, we kind of sat with itfor a moment because that's
fair, that's legitimate.
You know there's a lot of somany of us accepted mistreatment
as as a regular price to payfor our love of food and the
love of art.
And and then I said to himThank you for your service.
That must have been sodifficult, how exceptional that
(25:42):
you get to play an instrumentalrole in paving the way for what
a healthier workforce looks like.
And he was genuinely emotional.
Chef James (25:54):
Oh, I can only imagine.
Jasmin (25:56):
Yeah, and it's like we talk often when we talk about
the new workforce, about thedinosaurs that won't let go.
But the truth is that so manyof us are tired and want to stay
in the industry longer andwould have meant to stay in the
industry longer.
So largely no one's mad aboutthe industry becoming healthier.
(26:17):
It's just so difficult to seethe industry be so different,
right, Right or pushing aboundary and it's a painful
thing, because I hear aboutyoung folks and their practices
and their boundaries all thetime and I think, gosh, if I had
known that, if I had pushedthat, I might have stayed longer
, it might not have been over.
So soon.
(26:38):
That's a hard thing to say.
Chef James (26:39):
Yeah, well, it is.
But it's also a great point thatsome relationships for some
people or some experiences inlife I mean, maybe we would have
taken a vacation more often, mygosh, you know.
And in that you have anotherlevel of experience for yourself
, you know, with that self-care,but you totally bypass all of
(27:01):
that.
You know, I do wish and I dohope for the industry.
I know we're all the young onesare so eager and everything I
just get concerned about, andthat's just been a struggle of
making sure that we kind of earnour way too with wisdom.
I should say, you know, notrelentless craziness that we
dealt with or that we're tryingto work out of today, but just
(27:25):
that opportunity to slow it downand earn that wisdom in the
industry so that you're battleready.
And I guess you know the otherflip side to that is well,
you're also paying for culinaryschool.
A number of them, you know Idid not go to culinary school, I
went to the school of hardknocks, but many of them are,
(27:45):
you know.
They come out, they've got tobe driven, they've got to pay
that school back, they've got,you know, and they push
themselves really hard to jumpright into something you know.
Jasmin (27:57):
So anyways, this is, yeah, you're absolutely true.
And look at how the media isshifting alongside that.
I love that you mentioned thatas well because, you know,
probably on the tail end of whenI was already in the industry,
now was the time where westarted to cook a little bit, to
focus a little bit on cookingpersonalities, and you know the
Gordon, the Anthony Bourdain andMarco Pierre White model that
(28:19):
trickled into the Gordon Ramsaymodel.
Just always we've had just sucha mainstream understanding of
glorifying these practices thatto us were damaging, harmful,
harmful, difficult, but thatthey really made it look like
attractive on the outside, kindof a rock-dye mentality.
(28:40):
And you know we'reparticipating.
Currently we've put together apetition for I don't know if
you're a fan of the bear, I'm ahuge fan of yours.
Chef James (28:48):
Yes, of course, yep.
Jasmin (28:50):
Yeah, it's been one of my favorite things to watch.
In fact, watching episodes ofthe bear probably does as much
work for me as going to therapydoes.
Chef James (28:59):
Okay, oh yeah, I'm jealous.
I have to get a brown paper bagand work on breathing, you know
Well, so similar.
Jasmin (29:06):
It's intense.
Chef James (29:06):
It's funny, but yeah .
Jasmin (29:08):
I find myself alternating between being
incredibly triggered andactivated, to the point where
sometimes I have to pause andwalk away to the next episode.
I am flooded with an intenseFOMO.
I should have never left.
This is what it was about I.
This is incredible.
Look at this.
You know, yeah, love, that I'min the fluctuation between
(29:32):
episodes and we put together apetition asking for the
producers, the creators of theshow, to be able to add mental
health resources at the end ofit, because we recognize that
these things are these the waythat the industry is being
portrayed in the media islargely accurate and but it is
(29:53):
activating.
And so if we're depicting theindustry the way that it is
currently, the industry, the waythat it is currently, also, for
the first time in a long time,comes with actual supports for
people, and we deserve to havethe industry accurately depicted
while, at the same time,letting folks know that this
might be the industry today.
But there's also supports here.
There's CHOW and organizationslike CHOW that can offer
(30:15):
additional support in order totake care of this emotional
dysregulation that you might befeeling after this episode or
whatever feelings are beingdredged up by this depiction of
the industry.
Chef James (30:27):
Well, it's very interesting and again, I'm not
trying to put the militaristicsort of battle zone concept
comparing the two, but I tryhelp.
It's kind of tough becausethere are some likenesses in
some levels of you know and Idon't know and maybe you've seen
it over your time if they'vedeveloped an understanding of
(30:49):
some level of PTSD.
I don't know if that's true ornot.
Do you know of anything likethat?
Jasmin (30:54):
Because we do you know, we talk in our mental health
course.
We have a four hour mentalhealth course where we talk
about mental health challengesand diagnoses, how they show up
in the industry, how do werecognize them, how do we make
room for them?
Right, because you know werecognize that not everybody
walks into a kitchen with justtheir knife roll.
(31:14):
People are coming in withpreexisting conditions, complex
trauma.
One of the things that wethought about is, you know,
cptsd, and so there's this ideathat, like our behavior largely
changes based on the way that weexperience capital T trauma and
little T trauma.
So we talk a little bit aboutyou know what is that, what does
that mean and what do you walkaway from and how do we make
(31:38):
room and integrate that into ourlives?
Similarly, you know disorderedeating not to be confused with a
needing disorder but I'm aperson who I'm three years out
of the industry and I stillcan't eat warm food.
I mean, I have not had alargely warm meal since I left
the industry.
If I'm sitting at a restaurant,I can't sit to the kitchen
because I hear tickets coming in.
(31:59):
There's no way I'm in aconversation with you and I will
sit at a restaurant and I willhave a 10 minute conversation,
just moving my food around untilit cools down, because I
haven't eaten a warm meal sinceI was 17 years old and I'm
pretty, you know yeah, yeah.
And so these, these things thatare, you know, we think are just
(32:19):
our insulated experience, butthey're really not there.
They're pretty typicalundertones, that that bind all
of us, and we're now starting tohave the tools to recognize.
Is this PTSD, is thisdisordered eating, this ADHD,
masking, as you know, a personbeing very efficient?
Chef James (32:42):
What is it?
Jasmin (32:43):
Not a big part of our education being able to these
things in yourself and in others, so that we're not using
damaging language anymore likeoh, don't touch his knife, set
he so ADHD about it.
Chef James (32:55):
Oh, yeah, right.
Jasmin (32:57):
You know he's so OCD about his knife rule and you're
like, well, that's not reallyOCD, he just likes to keep his
stuff me.
And yeah, yeah, right, yeahthere are those tags.
Yes, absolutely, and soseparating.
That gives us this kind ofownership because, first of all,
long we've been a band ofmisfits Yep, you know we're
already projecting like, oh,don't worry about it, we're just
(33:18):
a band of misfits making doSure.
It's the way we want to relateto each other, that we are
people whose life experiencefits comfortably in other
people's life experience in akitchen setting.
That's fine.
But you know, this largerrepresentation of you know the
hot mess misfits in the kitchen.
It also, you know, comes from ascarcity mindset.
(33:39):
We deserve to feel safe at work, we deserve to feel represented
at work, we deserve to feelheard at work.
And as long as we're relatingabout ourselves and each other
in these kind of terms, likeit's not so serious, you know we
don't.
We don't have to look at thehard truth, which is that it is.
It is serious, it's ourlivelihood, it's our passion and
and it deserves to besustainable.
Chef James (34:01):
Oh, absolutely yeah.
Yeah, I always say, you know,gaining the wisdom you know
between the years to extend theyears, yeah Is the goal, you
know.
You know what I was thinkingabout.
Is you kind of shared aboutgoing in and working with?
You know, restaurant, tours orbusinesses, what is that with
the that workplace, your childworkplace toolkit, wellness
(34:23):
toolkit?
Can you talk about that?
Absolutely yeah.
Jasmin (34:26):
Yeah, this is one of my favorite things that we have
done.
So a product of our listeningtours that I mentioned before,
where we do these local thinktanks, we get owners, operators
and managers together.
We ask them what's working andwhat's not.
Where they're struggling, youknow, are you?
Is your primary concern tobeing understaffed?
Is it the bottom line?
Is this coming from?
(34:46):
Then we kind of take thattemperature, take and compare it
to their employees.
We give them resources, we sendfollow ups, so we open up these
conversations.
Well, in these listening tours,we started hearing you know
excellent tips that people weredoing that were working really
well for their staff on theother end.
So we said you know, let's, youknow, let's collate this
information together and shareit.
So if you visit our website atchow code dot org, you'll be
(35:09):
able to find a free downloadablePDF which is a really hefty
stack.
It's called the workplacetoolkit and it's got tabs on the
right hand side that haveeither a five minute increment,
ten minute increment, fivedollar, ten dollars.
So, based on whateverinvestment you have of your time
or money on any given day, youflip to the page of what you
have to invest five minutes orfive dollars so that it's self
(35:31):
led and it gives you a tip thatyou can try out with your staff.
Today you try that tip out andI don't know if you can get a
pre shift temperature check withthe staff, which seems super
simple, right?
Except often if you talk toowners and operators, they say,
(35:51):
okay, so I'm going to do a preshift temp check with the staff.
And if I have somebody checkingin at a well done like I can't
do this, what am I supposed todo?
Send them home?
I'm under staffed.
Well, here's what we can dostagger the scheduled shift
differently so that they get,you know, three breaks within
the first hour and then they cancarry over for the remainder of
(36:12):
the shift.
Can he switch positions withsomebody?
Can she step off the line anddo prep instead?
So we there's actual actionableitems of follow through and
come up during those things, sothat these are temperature
checks that are actuallyfeasible and we're not telling
you to just try something thatwouldn't actually work in this
model.
And so they go anywhere,ranging from a temperature check
(36:35):
to what does it look like toeliminate a shift drink?
Take that budget and invest itinto something else okay, right.
And how do I have theseconversations with my staff to
find out what it is that theyreally want, so that I'm not, as
a leader, making decisionslargely for them and ending up
with unsatisfied staff.
So it covers the entire thing,coupled with our scripts for
(36:57):
difficult conversations.
Chef James (36:58):
Okay, wow.
Jasmin (37:00):
Which is incredible.
We've had those vetted by legalprofessionals and
trauma-informed clinicians andsame thing.
You flip to the page.
You know I want to have aconversation with my boss about
arrays, or I want to have my aconversation with my staff about
how I think they might haveshown up drunk on the last shift
(37:20):
.
Chef James (37:20):
Okay.
Jasmin (37:21):
The page that you need to go and it gives you all of an
actual script that you canfollow that keeps you protected
legally, that makes you show upwith a lot of tenderness and
consideration for trauma that aperson may, and it guides you
through these conversations sothat we can use these models,
these toolkits, so that we canstart having these conversations
(37:41):
, so that they become a naturaloccurrence that you know folks
can train other folks on, andthen one day we're all just
having conversations where we'reall seen, heard and represented
.
Chef James (37:52):
Wow, well, and that's just amazing.
I mean, what a greatopportunity to put that into
into work.
What's your feedback been overthat, in the trial of it?
Jasmin (38:01):
I mean we are incredibly excited.
We've received a lot of support, especially with the workplace
wellness toolkit.
We love that we are able toshowcase our partners and their
practices, because we prideourselves on being a listening
organization and so we don'twant to put things into
development that aren'tnecessary or needed.
And so you know, when folks getback to us and they say I tried
(38:24):
the workplace wellness toolkit,I've been doing the shake, it's
working incredible.
I managed to see this return ofmy investment.
I have a practice.
We love to hear it we love to,yeah, small change, big change.
We love that.
Chef James (38:38):
Oh, that's so cool.
I'm looking at the website.
You know they can go right onthere to meetings and take a
look at the scheduled meetings.
Did I read that?
Are there certain days youdon't have meetings or there's
less meetings during the week?
Jasmin (38:51):
Yes, currently, I think, our Friday Saturday.
No, I'm sorry, it's Thursday.
Friday, saturday there are nomeetings scheduled.
These things are always indevelopment, so you know stay
tuned, but the majority of ourmeetings.
We have one meeting happeningon Monday, we have four on
Tuesday, we have two onWednesday.
We have one on Sunday.
We have spaces for all women'smeetings, all men's meetings.
(39:15):
We have an offshoot childleadership meeting every now and
then.
Okay, there's a pop up.
We have a Spanish speakingmeeting.
Yes, and they're all availableonline through our website,
super accessible.
Chef James (39:28):
And that's awesome.
So also looking at othersupport avenues that you guys do
provide I mean you even helppeople financially on some
aspects as well right, we do sowe don't do this directly.
Jasmin (39:41):
A big part of our programming is called resource
brokering.
So what that means is that allCHOW folks, myself included, we
are all trained to know thevocationally specific resources
to help with the kind ofsituation that you might be
having.
So we have often folks thatcome to us and they say I'm a
victim of intimate partner abuse, do you know?
(40:04):
And I'm in the industry.
Do you know where I can go toget support?
We will sit with you while youfill out forms, while you call,
while you do a warm handoverwith someone.
Our official motto for this isthat you know I'm concerned
about the situation, but I'm not.
CHOW may not be the organizationthat has developed programming
around how to help, but we areall trained as to how to get you
(40:26):
to a warm handover and thencheck in with you a week later
to see how it's doing and thencheck in with you three weeks
later to see that you go out tothe right.
So we have just about.
If you check out our resourcepage and we encourage folks, you
know, take a look at theresources available and if you
need additional support, youjust fill out a form and we give
you a call and we sit on thephone with you and we do the
(40:46):
warm handover.
All of this is free and ithelps with anything you can
think of.
We've helped folks withfinancial assistance, domestic
violence situations, folks thatare trying to leave the industry
or go into the industry, resumejust about anything that you
can think of that folks in thefood, beverage, hospitality
(41:06):
industry might need support with.
We can sit with them and getthem to the appropriate place.
Chef James (41:12):
Okay and that's awesome.
When you guys are looking likeyou know sponsors and
partnerships.
How has that been for you guys?
Are you getting the support andthings that you needing that
and building?
Jasmin (41:23):
Yeah, we've been very fortunate so far.
We apply for a lot of grants.
We have a lot of wellnesssponsors and partners that want
to, you know, maybe sponsor ameet and greet in a specific
area.
We have Connect for HealthColorado, for example, has been
instrumental to our growth sofar.
Kaiser, they'll, you know, saywe'll sponsor this part of this
(41:47):
event to be able to do this.
And we have been incrediblyfortunate that, even though we
have never sought out thesupport of the food beverage
hospitality industry because wewant to raise the barriers to
entry, we do not solicitdonations or any of that we have
had folks who have just ralliedto fundraise for us by doing
things round up the check anddonate to Chow and their POS
(42:10):
systems or a cocktail for acause for Chow and donate, you
know, a dollar for each cocktailsold.
And we have received incrediblefundraising support from one of
the avenues that we largelydidn't expect, because it's the
community that we serve.
Chef James (42:26):
So we've been very fortunate so far for sure, okay,
as people are listening, howcan they get involved in that
aspect?
Who do they connect with and?
Jasmin (42:34):
so the cool part about our website is that we have a
contact us form that routes tomy email, so any questions would
arrive directly to me and Imake sure that folks are, you
know, going to the appropriateplace that they need support
with.
We also have a donate featureon the website.
If folks are choosing to donate, we sell merch that largely
funnels back in and you know,yeah, a forward facing way of
(42:57):
just kind of which is prettycool.
So, and we say, there's no smallway to participate in the
community and spreading themovement, it's easiest sharing a
social media post or assigninga petition, or you know, coming
to the mental health course,which is a free course, we
charge a $15 placeholder toreserve your spot, which is a
(43:17):
return to you.
But there are many ways tosupport the growth of the
community that don't necessarilyhave to be monetary.
But we are a nonprofit and soyou know the monetary part is a
necessary part to keep ourprogramming free of cost for our
professionals for sure.
Chef James (43:32):
Well and looking at as it develops, I mean, do you
actually see some of these hubsin the future branching further
out?
I mean that's quite a bit ofwork to do, but do you see that
in the future?
We love that work.
Jasmin (43:45):
It is not that we're afraid of.
We are currently actually inMarch.
We are rolling out our firstannouncement about rolling out
our first CHOW in DC meetingWe'll be moving to, we'll be
rather expanding to WashingtonDC and I'm assuming that very
much like it has historicallygone with CHOW, once one little
(44:06):
step is set into motion forgrowth, it usually picks up
after that.
Chef James (44:11):
Right.
Jasmin (44:12):
Always looking for ways to expand and grow the movement.
Chef James (44:14):
Well, that's a great problem to have Any final words
, any words of wisdom.
Jasmin (44:19):
Oh my gosh, Any words of wisdom.
Take good care of yourselves,for anyone that's listening,
take good care of yourselves.
You are so valued and we're soglad that you're here.
And, yeah, come join us, let'stalk about it.
Whatever it is, let's talkabout it.
I want folks to know.
Often the questions that we getIs this just an event fest?
(44:41):
Is it A for chefs?
First, it's for everyone in thefood beverage hospitality
industry and adjacent we evenhave an attendee that has been
with us for years who is just anally.
He's just a patron, a guy wholargely credits the food
beverage hospitality industryand those connections for
getting him through the pandemic.
When he was able to get takeout food and take it back home,
(45:04):
those were the only interactionshe had.
And post pandemic he came toone of our meetings and said I
just want to be a better patronand I just want to support you
folks.
How do I do that?
We have students, industrywriters, we have vets, industry
veterans, we have farmers.
We have, we have there are somany folks that are a part of
our all inclusive definition offood beverage hospitality and it
(45:28):
is an exceptional place to comeshare about your successes and
struggles with folks whofundamentally get it, have
either been or need support,because they are there and I
cannot speak about the benefitsenough and you can turn, you can
join us camera on, camera off,with an alias.
If that's what feels best, itis not required.
(45:50):
But if that's something thatyou need support with, we can
get you to the right place andit's a super welcoming, brave
space for anybody in the food,beverage, hospitality industry
and adjacent.
So come give it a try, is whatI would say, is my final words
wisdom.
Chef James (46:06):
That's so awesome.
I just want to say thank youall for you know your time,
jasmin, and what you do, whatthe group does there.
Thank you, yeah, all right,everyone.
That is a wrap.
You can check us out If youlike that.
Subscribe Also the InstagramChef Massey.
Let's keep it simple, ChefMassey.
com.
(46:27):
Have a good one.
Bye for now.
Hey everyone, welcome to Chef Sense.
I'm your host, chef Massey.
We have CHOW coming on.
I just wanted to do a briefintroduction for them.
Their acronym stands forCulinary Hospitality, outreach
and Wellness.
They are a very specialnonprofit organization that
provides an outreach for all ofus in the food and beverage
(00:35):
industry.
You'll hear Jasmine talk aboutthat, but I want to go over some
numbers that they actuallydisplay in their research 63% of
food and beverage hospitalityprofessionals suffer from
depression.
84% of food and beverage andhospitality workers feel stress
from their jobs, 65% of food andbeverage hospitality workers
(00:58):
report using substances while atwork and 53% of food and
beverage hospitality workersfeel they've been pushed to
their breaking point.
And so, yes, those are verytough numbers that we just
listen to.
But the great thing is thatthere are organizations like
CHOW.
They are built for us.
(01:19):
Because they're built by peoplethat are us, we can take
advantage of these opportunitiesto go.
You know what?
I'm not in a good place, I needa minute, I need to evaluate
some things, and how do I goabout doing that?
Again, we've all been a part ofthis industry where you're
dealing with outside life andthe stressors and all of that,
(01:44):
not to mention a career paththat expects perfection at every
turn.
So today we have places likethis, people like this that are
there to help us work on thesethings for a better and brighter
and more longevity in theindustry, and I think it's very
important that we use tools likethis.
(02:06):
Love you guys.
Let's roll into the episode.
Today we have Jasmin from CHOW,so excited to have you on.
Thank you.
Jasmin (02:15):
Thank you for having me.
We are so excited to be able toparticipate.
These opportunities areinvaluable to our organization
and I really appreciate it.
If you could go into.
Chef James (02:26):
You know how CHOW started and how this kind of
came for fruition.
It's really amazing story.
Jasmin (02:30):
Yes, thank you.
A few years ago I think we'reselling liberating.
We're coming up on our fifthbirthday Essentially our founder
, john Hinman, who is a businessowner, pie maker extraordinaire
.
He was very active in the foodbeverage hospitality community
and once he embarked on hisrecovery journey and returned to
the food beverage hospitalityindustry, having amassed a lot
(02:53):
of skills, tools and resources,you know, to assist him on his
recovery journey, he thenreturned to the industry and
found a lot of what he had feltbefore he left.
So he had this idea to gathereverybody to talk about where it
hurts.
That was his initial idea.
The hurt we can't see, how dowe address it?
(03:15):
How do we learn to haveconversations centered around it
?
And, as it happens, we lostAnthony Bourdain a couple of
days after this meeting wasscheduled, and so what could
have been just a couple ofpeople getting together in his
bakery and talking really endedup being a whole lot of people
showing up and talking aboutwhat was hurting them, what
(03:37):
their successes and struggleswere.
And that was essentially thefirst CHOW meeting.
And then, slowly, folks likemyself and Aaron Boyle, chow's
CEO, we just kind of started asattendees who then wanted to
start our own chapters of CHOWso that we could bring CHOW to
other areas of Colorado and CHOWstarted having, you know, chow,
(04:02):
colorado Springs, chow,steamboat Springs, chow Vale,
and we were incredibly fortunate, through the pandemic, to be
able to switch to an onlineslash hybrid model.
So current yeah, all of ourmeetings happen in person in
Colorado.
We are currently expandingoutside of Colorado, but they
(04:22):
are accessible and availablefrom anywhere in the world.
So folks have been joining usfrom literally anywhere in the
world in our Zoom rooms andwe've also expanded to education
, which is available, onlineresource brokering, and we pride
ourselves on being a listeningorganization.
So the more needs come upwithin the food, beverage and
(04:43):
hospitality community that weare made aware of, the more we
develop programming to meetthose needs.
Chef James (04:48):
Okay and that's just amazing.
You know, looking at theprocess and, like you had said,
you know people coming in andzooming in and being a part of
those meetings.
You know I have done that andin that process, you know,
working through my career path,recognizing how important mental
health really is in you knowthe industry and really how much
(05:10):
it has been really swept underthe rug in many different
aspects and so many of them andI guess for me I go.
You know I've been in the foodbeverage industry over 30 years,
22 years in executive chef.
So I guess in a sense for manyof us it's it kind of raises you
up.
The industry is raises you.
(05:32):
You're going along in thatprocess with leadership and the
stress of what we deal with andyou know you're also as a human
being, right, like you'relearning yourself as a person,
you know, not just an employeein the industry, but then if you
step into leadership you'regoing right into that and you're
growing too.
So you guys are so specialbecause I think this opportunity
(05:53):
today where someone can go intothose meetings, you know, and
we're going to those key speakermeetings, which are just great,
it does remind me a lot of a 12step program of how those rooms
operate.
Jasmin (06:08):
So yeah, we started off.
You know, the question that weused to get so much when we
first started is is this a forchefs?
Is that what you're saying?
Yeah, right, yes, there'sdefinitely we pride ourselves on
.
You know, chow is here becausewe call it.
CHOW is us helping us.
(06:28):
This based on the idea that, youknow, currently studies show us
that the food beveragehospitality industry is growing
at immense rates, so thatcurrently, if every clinical
certified mental health providerwere to fill their docket
completely with hospitalityworkers, we would still
outnumber them 29 times over.
Wow, yeah, that is a staggeringstatistic.
(06:51):
So we think, now that you know,not only do we not have basic
foundational access to mentalhealth care, right, most folks
work in the industry, areunderinsured, marginalized and
often not earning enough to payfor therapy out of pocket.
And so we've figured out thatthe peer support model, right,
having a person in the room whois mediating the conversation.
(07:13):
And here's, I think, where wediffer a little bit in, where we
diverge a little from that 12step model.
Our rooms are moderated bysomeone called an expose, right,
it's a term we're familiar withwho just kind of facilitates
the conversation between theattendees and the general
temperature of the room.
So we start off by doing atemperature take, because we are
industry folks, so we oftenhave more words for food than we
(07:36):
have for our feelings.
We check in on a scale of rareto well done.
Rare meaning juicy, full oflife.
Well done meaning I've been onthe grill for far too long.
Take me off, I'm tapping out,and this expose what they're
doing is based on thetemperature shares in the room.
They're finding a common threadof conversation to bring the
conversation forward andeverybody walks away with the
(07:58):
takeaway.
So it's met with skills,resources, a person that's going
to check up on your temperaturethe week after.
So there's this idea that, eventhough we are not clinical
mental health providers thatarmed with the same resources
and the same systems of support,that we can essentially build a
(08:19):
sustainable workforce from theground up where everybody has
equal resources, versus thiskind of outdated hierarchical
model that the industry has beenfunctioning on for so long,
where we have the kind ofmanagers, owners and operators
perintified up here.
And they are largely responsiblefor the employee and there's
such a big discrepancy with thatright.
Chef James (08:41):
Right, wow, that's amazing.
How are you feeling like, in asense, feedback, as this is
building?
I mean it's doing very well.
Jasmin (08:49):
It is.
We're growing immensely.
We are incredibly grateful formost of us.
Aaron and I have been therejust about since the beginning
and it has been a huge labor oflove for us.
We currently have folks who arestill in the industry, but
Aaron and I are industryveterans.
I'll speak to myself personally.
I got involved with CHOWbecause I worked through half of
(09:14):
the pandemic and my careergenerally used to fluctuate, in
the sense that when I was doingthe best career-wise, it's when
my mental health was often doingthe worst.
You know, I kind of I was aproduct of the great resignation
and I kind of had to look atmyself and see, you know, it
doesn't get much higher thanthis.
So I'm an executive chef, I'mhead of food and beverage, of
(09:34):
the whole food and beveragedepartment, and I'm just not
doing well and odds are that inyou.
Unless I figure out what it isthat makes it so that when I'm
working, when my career is justoff the charts, that I'm
struggling so much personally,then I won't be able to stay in
the industry, and so a lot ofwhat we do is centered around
(09:55):
the idea that we don't wantfolks to leave the industry we
want folks to do what they'repassionate about and continue to
live well and to be able toshow up to work as
whole-supported human beings.
So it's for sure a labor oflove for us.
Chef James (10:09):
Oh, absolutely, I mean it's.
That's just remarkable, youknow, and I think looking at it
it's so interesting because Ikind of came up in that model
which you know, I know you'reaware of.
Is that the old school toughlove, or like you never really
shared your feelings, like ifyou said you couldn't handle
something.
That just wasn't acceptable.
(10:30):
You know, and there's just somany challenges that we deal
with in our industry that youknow men and women deal with
Women most definitely.
You know, for me coming up toowith the glass ceiling and some
of these challenges.
So there's a lot to talk aboutin our industry and I really
love our people and we're sodiversified in just this huge
(10:55):
melting pot of culture andeverything.
It's pretty special.
So to be able to work this, youknow this process and take care
of yourself, it's, I think forsome of us it can be kind of
uncomfortable in the beginning,you know.
So how has that been?
And you know some of us kind ofbeing okay with sitting where
(11:16):
we are and those thoughts andemotions, that we're just kind
of understanding that andworking the process.
Jasmin (11:21):
Yeah, I that's an excellent question.
I'm I like to characterize asmyself.
I like to characterize myselfas a person who is in long term
emotional recovery.
I left the industry three yearsago and I am still a person who
attends two child supportgroups a week and I go to
therapy weekly and I do this sothat I can learn how to be a
(11:44):
human being in a way that Inever knew before.
I'm a third generation chef.
My father was a chef whoparented oh that's awesome, yeah
, like he chef.
And so that that kind of likedysfunction of the food and
beverage hospitality industrythe offbeat hours, you know, the
very the, the loud directions,rapid fire directions shouted at
(12:07):
you that kind of dysfunctionand chaos was very familiar and
very comfortable for me, sure, Iwould imagine.
Yeah, and then leaving the thequiet and trying to integrate
into you know, civilian life.
Chef James (12:20):
Right right.
Jasmin (12:22):
It was impossible and, if you think about it, many of
the systems that we are moldedafter right Like the military.
When folks leave the military,it will be the time, and whether
these systems work or not is acompletely different
conversation.
But there are systems to checkon people to make sure that they
can re reintegrate into society, because they recognize that
(12:43):
they have largely been livingmarginalized for years.
Sure, our industry is modeledafter the military brigade
system, but when you stop beinga chef, when you start working
hospitality, the hospitalityindustry spits you back out with
your opposing work hours andyour disordered eating habits.
And or you know, propensity forloudness.
(13:03):
It spits you back out.
It's cool, Pick yourself up andyou know, go do something else.
I found that to be incrediblyalienating.
I struggled so much in my and Ihave a bachelor's in marketing,
so I had something to fall on.
But my wife never made thatconnection.
I said you know, I've been.
I've been working in kitchensince I was 18 years old.
I've never been anything else.
(13:25):
I will never be anything else.
Where do I come from here?
And at CHOW, which is that weneed vocationally specific
resources.
We have vocationally specificchallenges.
I started going to therapy rightafter I left the industry,
because I knew I wasn't going tobe able to integrate on my own,
(13:45):
and oftentimes the things thatI was just explaining to my
therapist were things that theyjust couldn't get on board
behind.
You know.
Chef James (13:53):
Right.
Jasmin (13:54):
It's difficult to talk to a mental health professional
even when I was in the industryand say you know, I am burnt out
and I can't go to work tomorrowand explain to them you know
how compulsive that need feelsto have to go to work tomorrow
Because we're understaffed.
I can't sit this out.
Chef James (14:10):
I'm a leader If I sit in it Right.
Jasmin (14:12):
But will the rest of my staff do?
Because to them it was justlike set a boundary and meet
that boundary, and I was likeyou don't understand how it
works in the industry.
There is no boundary I'mexpected to show up Right.
So it wasn't until I went into aCHOW room.
You know very different of howthe system would work, because I
was a little bit you know justa little cautious with therapy.
(14:34):
I didn't feel very understood.
And then I walked into a Chaoroom and everybody is talking
about the same things that I'mfeeling Right.
Here are my struggles, here aremy successes.
And I was like, well, dang metoo.
Chef James (14:45):
Oh right, that's.
Amazing.
Jasmin (14:47):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
It was a game changer for me,and you know also the reframe
for us that we like to do thisreframe.
Self-care is a very marked termnowadays.
Chef James (14:57):
Yeah.
Jasmin (14:58):
For folks like us, industry folks.
We hear self-care and we thinkyou know bath bombs and days off
and like that we reframe thatterm and we say it's actually
self-service and you alreadyknow service, yes, service, you
know like the back of your hand.
So really let's reframe thatidea.
Take the bath bomb out andlet's look at self-service like
(15:18):
what can Tuesday Jasmine do toset up Thursday Jasmine In the
smallest possible way?
Can I take those 10 cans of RedBulls that I drink on the line
and turn them in to eat and thenhave a bottle of water at can
number four.
Because that's a win, that'sabsolutely a win.
Chef James (15:35):
Yeah, yeah, wow.
Well, I think what's reallycool is that you guys have
structured this so that you'respeaking our lingo, because you
come from us, you know, and tohear that you go okay, it's a
very co-dependent relationshipthat you have with your team and
your environment and to be ableto take what you're sharing and
(15:57):
going okay.
These check valves are veryimportant for yourself, which we
just steamrolled over, and theyend up going into maladaptive
behaviors, you know, and canoftentimes lead to addiction.
And that's a tough thing is.
You know there's many peoplethat are in it and in that
addiction, or there's some thatyou know I've buried,
(16:19):
unfortunately, over the years,and it just, you know, those
sorts of things kind of resonatewith you.
You know, like you're saying, Imean it's in your DNA and you
know whether it'smulti-generational colonnarians
that you're a part of in yourDNA to being raised by an
industry of beautiful misfitsthat it becomes the new you and
(16:42):
you know I often say it's calleddisruding.
How do I get out of that rut?
And that's where, for me, youknow, like you said, I, you know
, I've been in those rooms andthose rooms are so special.
It's a spiritual experiencewith people, with all of us in
there and because you've, youknow, again you're going back to
the militaristic concept of akitchen.
(17:05):
You know we are battle seasoned.
I mean, many of us work so hardfor that one shot to get into
the next level and we haven'tfully seasoned, you know, as a
leader, and we step right intoit and it's just, you know,
you're inundated.
I mean you're learning by fireconstantly.
(17:25):
So, yeah, I totally get it.
It's amazing, these you knowbeing able to share with people.
So yeah, for sure.
Jasmin (17:35):
Yeah, that's definitely.
I like to call myself the chowposter child for success,
because it was definitely a bigpart of why I'm so passionate
about the work that we do isbecause it largely worked on me.
It gave me a sense of communityat a point in my life where I'd
never felt more marginalized.
The camaraderie we don't talkoften about, this band of misfit
(17:57):
toys.
Essentially, we say we're afamily for a reason, by ignoring
the typical red flags that comewhen we characterize something
as a family.
That means that it comes withan inherent kind of
dysfunctional value system andall of that.
But I felt when I first leftthat I was never going to
experience camaraderie like thatagain.
(18:18):
And I know now that that's nottrue.
There's something on the sideof that.
But that feeling for the firstcouple of months left me bereft.
I was like this part of mypersonality is just never going
to feel nurture like it did and,to be honest, I think I'm one
of the.
I've had to do a lot of amendssince leaving the industry.
(18:40):
I was mentored with a lot ofviolence and abuse.
Yeah, I started cooking.
Yeah, and I was a very I was avery big participant in that as
well, I think, being in theUnited States where there's a
lot more monitoring and HRdepartments probably from being
as harmful as I could have been,but I had to make a lot of
(19:03):
amends and sit with that theidea it's true that I didn't
know better, so I couldn't dobetter, but also that I hold a
lot of responsibility in reallypropagating these harmful
stereotypes of what leadershiplooks like in the back of the
house, of the kitchen, andthat's a really difficult thing
to sit with if you don't havepeople to hold it with you.
(19:25):
So the ability to say that in aroom I have been a damaging
leader, I have done damage tothe folks that I worked with and
can anybody relate to that andbeing able to extend that
vulnerability to myself and tonot be met with judgment because
so many understand it.
(19:45):
That was exceptional Instruments, my growth and healing process.
Chef James (19:51):
And that's amazing.
Going back to our foundation,even though we came up a bit
differently, what do you findattracted you into this caravan?
Jasmin (20:04):
Yeah, that's a good question.
I've been thinking about thatfor years and I think in my case
it was kind of inevitable.
I do think that when one of yourparents works in the
hospitality industry and wedon't talk about this enough
because we talk about children,for example, that come from a
military family, right, theyhave an entire awareness month
(20:24):
dedicated to them for theirresilience and the things that
we recognize that militarychildren have to go without in
order to have a parent in themilitary, and I'm not likening
those two experiences myhusband's in the military so I
know I understand the extent towhich my own children suffer at
long term separation.
But as a child who was raisedby a chef and business owner,
(20:49):
there was no holidays at home.
It was largely like holidayshosted at the restaurant, where
the family is sitting at one ofthe tables and everyone else is
being served and there's adattle.
Come out of the kitchen for acouple of minutes to blow out
your birthday candles, but we'relargely just having dinner at
the restaurant because that'sthe only way you can get them to
interact.
(21:09):
So to me there was a lot ofnormality very early on.
It was like take a couple ofshifts and help us out with the
register, take a couple ofserving shifts and help us out
with this.
I'm incredibly grateful for thework ethic that it instilled in
me that I started very, veryearly, that I was able to pursue
a four year bachelor's degreewhile at the same time working
(21:30):
full time in a kitchen.
So it felt inevitable becauseit felt incredibly comfortable
and familiar.
I knew I could see that thatsense of relief when service was
over for my dad and that aftershift, drink and the cold of the
restaurants and it seemedincredibly attractive to me.
(21:51):
I also came up in the generationof idolizing the Marco Pierre
White and the Anthony Bourdainof the world and I didn't see
myself represented in thatindustry right, because I still
think to this day we do not havea female equivalent of Anthony
Bourdain.
But no, and teenage me wasenamored with these men behind
the line.
It was just like I'm gonna makeyeah, Wow.
Chef James (22:15):
And the thing is too , I think, going into it,
looking at the other, as we'retalking about generations,
seeing how our industry hasshifted food, TV and social
media has really glamorized manyyears of the industry and
sucked people in, and today Ithink there's more of this
(22:39):
understanding of mental healthand space and boundaries.
So when you have the nextgeneration is coming in and
going, well, yeah, I'll pick upand do this and that, but I need
to.
I have an outside life or Ihave these things going on and
we never did that.
So maybe at one point I've gotto like I'm a little jealous,
(23:04):
you know, but at the same time,it's great that we are taking
that notice and we're going waita minute, no, we do need to
change this.
I mean, how do you?
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Now back to the episode.
Jasmin (23:54):
I love it.
To be honest with you, I have anine year old daughter who, up
until recently, wanted to be achef, just like mama, and that
used to terrify me when she usedto say and, and now you know,
the last time she said it a fewmonths ago, I can kind of like
temperature check the thingsthat I'm, that I'm seeing and
I'm like this is that's what I'mdoing.
(24:16):
I want, I want to play aninstrumental role in building
the industry that I deserved andso many of us deserved, Because
there are so many passionatepeople that love food and love
hospitality and they deserve tobe met with resources and
support and encouragement to beable to live their life well.
(24:36):
And you know, we often hearthis we're we're lucky enough to
be able to participate inlistening tours where we'll be
able to organize, you know,different geographical locations
.
We get business owners,managers and operators in a room
together and we say you knowwhat's working, what's not?
Tell us what you think.
And we conduct surveys withtheir staff to see how those
(24:58):
answers and questions kind ofstack up against each other.
And Aaron and I were recently ina room where where somebody
said you know, I've been in thisindustry for 37 years.
And now these younger kids arecoming in and they're this is
their first job and they'retalking to me about the shifts
that I can handle and shiftsthat I can't handle.
And I've been working 16 hourson my feet 37 years, yeah, and
(25:21):
you know, we kind of sat with itfor a moment because that's
fair, that's legitimate.
You know there's a lot of somany of us accepted mistreatment
as as a regular price to payfor our love of food and the
love of art.
And and then I said to himThank you for your service.
That must have been sodifficult, how exceptional that
(25:42):
you get to play an instrumentalrole in paving the way for what
a healthier workforce looks like.
And he was genuinely emotional.
Chef James (25:54):
Oh, I can only imagine.
Jasmin (25:56):
Yeah, and it's like we talk often when we talk about
the new workforce, about thedinosaurs that won't let go.
But the truth is that so manyof us are tired and want to stay
in the industry longer andwould have meant to stay in the
industry longer.
So largely no one's mad aboutthe industry becoming healthier.
(26:17):
It's just so difficult to seethe industry be so different,
right, Right or pushing aboundary and it's a painful
thing, because I hear aboutyoung folks and their practices
and their boundaries all thetime and I think, gosh, if I had
known that, if I had pushedthat, I might have stayed longer
, it might not have been over.
So soon.
(26:38):
That's a hard thing to say.
Chef James (26:39):
Yeah, well, it is.
But it's also a great point thatsome relationships for some
people or some experiences inlife I mean, maybe we would have
taken a vacation more often, mygosh, you know.
And in that you have anotherlevel of experience for yourself
, you know, with that self-care,but you totally bypass all of
(27:01):
that.
You know, I do wish and I dohope for the industry.
I know we're all the young onesare so eager and everything I
just get concerned about, andthat's just been a struggle of
making sure that we kind of earnour way too with wisdom.
I should say, you know, notrelentless craziness that we
dealt with or that we're tryingto work out of today, but just
(27:25):
that opportunity to slow it downand earn that wisdom in the
industry so that you're battleready.
And I guess you know the otherflip side to that is well,
you're also paying for culinaryschool.
A number of them, you know Idid not go to culinary school, I
went to the school of hardknocks, but many of them are,
(27:45):
you know.
They come out, they've got tobe driven, they've got to pay
that school back, they've got,you know, and they push
themselves really hard to jumpright into something you know.
Jasmin (27:57):
So anyways, this is, yeah, you're absolutely true.
And look at how the media isshifting alongside that.
I love that you mentioned thatas well because, you know,
probably on the tail end of whenI was already in the industry,
now was the time where westarted to cook a little bit, to
focus a little bit on cookingpersonalities, and you know the
Gordon, the Anthony Bourdain andMarco Pierre White model that
(28:19):
trickled into the Gordon Ramsaymodel.
Just always we've had just sucha mainstream understanding of
glorifying these practices thatto us were damaging, harmful,
harmful, difficult, but thatthey really made it look like
attractive on the outside, kindof a rock-dye mentality.
(28:40):
And you know we'reparticipating.
Currently we've put together apetition for I don't know if
you're a fan of the bear, I'm ahuge fan of yours.
Chef James (28:48):
Yes, of course, yep.
Jasmin (28:50):
Yeah, it's been one of my favorite things to watch.
In fact, watching episodes ofthe bear probably does as much
work for me as going to therapydoes.
Chef James (28:59):
Okay, oh yeah, I'm jealous.
I have to get a brown paper bagand work on breathing, you know
Well, so similar.
Jasmin (29:06):
It's intense.
Chef James (29:06):
It's funny, but yeah .
Jasmin (29:08):
I find myself alternating between being
incredibly triggered andactivated, to the point where
sometimes I have to pause andwalk away to the next episode.
I am flooded with an intenseFOMO.
I should have never left.
This is what it was about I.
This is incredible.
Look at this.
You know, yeah, love, that I'min the fluctuation between
(29:32):
episodes and we put together apetition asking for the
producers, the creators of theshow, to be able to add mental
health resources at the end ofit, because we recognize that
these things are these the waythat the industry is being
portrayed in the media islargely accurate and but it is
(29:53):
activating.
And so if we're depicting theindustry the way that it is
currently, the industry, the waythat it is currently, also, for
the first time in a long time,comes with actual supports for
people, and we deserve to havethe industry accurately depicted
while, at the same time,letting folks know that this
might be the industry today.
But there's also supports here.
There's CHOW and organizationslike CHOW that can offer
(30:15):
additional support in order totake care of this emotional
dysregulation that you might befeeling after this episode or
whatever feelings are beingdredged up by this depiction of
the industry.
Chef James (30:27):
Well, it's very interesting and again, I'm not
trying to put the militaristicsort of battle zone concept
comparing the two, but I tryhelp.
It's kind of tough becausethere are some likenesses in
some levels of you know and Idon't know and maybe you've seen
it over your time if they'vedeveloped an understanding of
(30:49):
some level of PTSD.
I don't know if that's true ornot.
Do you know of anything likethat?
Jasmin (30:54):
Because we do you know, we talk in our mental health
course.
We have a four hour mentalhealth course where we talk
about mental health challengesand diagnoses, how they show up
in the industry, how do werecognize them, how do we make
room for them?
Right, because you know werecognize that not everybody
walks into a kitchen with justtheir knife roll.
(31:14):
People are coming in withpreexisting conditions, complex
trauma.
One of the things that wethought about is, you know,
cptsd, and so there's this ideathat, like our behavior largely
changes based on the way that weexperience capital T trauma and
little T trauma.
So we talk a little bit aboutyou know what is that, what does
that mean and what do you walkaway from and how do we make
(31:38):
room and integrate that into ourlives?
Similarly, you know disorderedeating not to be confused with a
needing disorder but I'm aperson who I'm three years out
of the industry and I stillcan't eat warm food.
I mean, I have not had alargely warm meal since I left
the industry.
If I'm sitting at a restaurant,I can't sit to the kitchen
because I hear tickets coming in.
(31:59):
There's no way I'm in aconversation with you and I will
sit at a restaurant and I willhave a 10 minute conversation,
just moving my food around untilit cools down, because I
haven't eaten a warm meal sinceI was 17 years old and I'm
pretty, you know yeah, yeah.
And so these, these things thatare, you know, we think are just
(32:19):
our insulated experience, butthey're really not there.
They're pretty typicalundertones, that that bind all
of us, and we're now starting tohave the tools to recognize.
Is this PTSD, is thisdisordered eating, this ADHD,
masking, as you know, a personbeing very efficient?
Chef James (32:42):
What is it?
Jasmin (32:43):
Not a big part of our education being able to these
things in yourself and in others, so that we're not using
damaging language anymore likeoh, don't touch his knife, set
he so ADHD about it.
Chef James (32:55):
Oh, yeah, right.
Jasmin (32:57):
You know he's so OCD about his knife rule and you're
like, well, that's not reallyOCD, he just likes to keep his
stuff me.
And yeah, yeah, right, yeahthere are those tags.
Yes, absolutely, and soseparating.
That gives us this kind ofownership because, first of all,
long we've been a band ofmisfits Yep, you know we're
already projecting like, oh,don't worry about it, we're just
(33:18):
a band of misfits making doSure.
It's the way we want to relateto each other, that we are
people whose life experiencefits comfortably in other
people's life experience in akitchen setting.
That's fine.
But you know, this largerrepresentation of you know the
hot mess misfits in the kitchen.
It also, you know, comes from ascarcity mindset.
(33:39):
We deserve to feel safe at work, we deserve to feel represented
at work, we deserve to feelheard at work.
And as long as we're relatingabout ourselves and each other
in these kind of terms, likeit's not so serious, you know we
don't.
We don't have to look at thehard truth, which is that it is.
It is serious, it's ourlivelihood, it's our passion and
and it deserves to besustainable.
Chef James (34:01):
Oh, absolutely yeah.
Yeah, I always say, you know,gaining the wisdom you know
between the years to extend theyears, yeah Is the goal, you
know.
You know what I was thinkingabout.
Is you kind of shared aboutgoing in and working with?
You know, restaurant, tours orbusinesses, what is that with
the that workplace, your childworkplace toolkit, wellness
(34:23):
toolkit?
Can you talk about that?
Absolutely yeah.
Jasmin (34:26):
Yeah, this is one of my favorite things that we have
done.
So a product of our listeningtours that I mentioned before,
where we do these local thinktanks, we get owners, operators
and managers together.
We ask them what's working andwhat's not.
Where they're struggling, youknow, are you?
Is your primary concern tobeing understaffed?
Is it the bottom line?
Is this coming from?
(34:46):
Then we kind of take thattemperature, take and compare it
to their employees.
We give them resources, we sendfollow ups, so we open up these
conversations.
Well, in these listening tours,we started hearing you know
excellent tips that people weredoing that were working really
well for their staff on theother end.
So we said you know, let's, youknow, let's collate this
information together and shareit.
So if you visit our website atchow code dot org, you'll be
(35:09):
able to find a free downloadablePDF which is a really hefty
stack.
It's called the workplacetoolkit and it's got tabs on the
right hand side that haveeither a five minute increment,
ten minute increment, fivedollar, ten dollars.
So, based on whateverinvestment you have of your time
or money on any given day, youflip to the page of what you
have to invest five minutes orfive dollars so that it's self
(35:31):
led and it gives you a tip thatyou can try out with your staff.
Today you try that tip out andI don't know if you can get a
pre shift temperature check withthe staff, which seems super
simple, right?
Except often if you talk toowners and operators, they say,
(35:51):
okay, so I'm going to do a preshift temp check with the staff.
And if I have somebody checkingin at a well done like I can't
do this, what am I supposed todo?
Send them home?
I'm under staffed.
Well, here's what we can dostagger the scheduled shift
differently so that they get,you know, three breaks within
the first hour and then they cancarry over for the remainder of
(36:12):
the shift.
Can he switch positions withsomebody?
Can she step off the line anddo prep instead?
So we there's actual actionableitems of follow through and
come up during those things, sothat these are temperature
checks that are actuallyfeasible and we're not telling
you to just try something thatwouldn't actually work in this
model.
And so they go anywhere,ranging from a temperature check
(36:35):
to what does it look like toeliminate a shift drink?
Take that budget and invest itinto something else okay, right.
And how do I have theseconversations with my staff to
find out what it is that theyreally want, so that I'm not, as
a leader, making decisionslargely for them and ending up
with unsatisfied staff.
So it covers the entire thing,coupled with our scripts for
(36:57):
difficult conversations.
Chef James (36:58):
Okay, wow.
Jasmin (37:00):
Which is incredible.
We've had those vetted by legalprofessionals and
trauma-informed clinicians andsame thing.
You flip to the page.
You know I want to have aconversation with my boss about
arrays, or I want to have my aconversation with my staff about
how I think they might haveshown up drunk on the last shift
(37:20):
.
Chef James (37:20):
Okay.
Jasmin (37:21):
The page that you need to go and it gives you all of an
actual script that you canfollow that keeps you protected
legally, that makes you show upwith a lot of tenderness and
consideration for trauma that aperson may, and it guides you
through these conversations sothat we can use these models,
these toolkits, so that we canstart having these conversations
(37:41):
, so that they become a naturaloccurrence that you know folks
can train other folks on, andthen one day we're all just
having conversations where we'reall seen, heard and represented
.
Chef James (37:52):
Wow, well, and that's just amazing.
I mean, what a greatopportunity to put that into
into work.
What's your feedback been overthat, in the trial of it?
Jasmin (38:01):
I mean we are incredibly excited.
We've received a lot of support, especially with the workplace
wellness toolkit.
We love that we are able toshowcase our partners and their
practices, because we prideourselves on being a listening
organization and so we don'twant to put things into
development that aren'tnecessary or needed.
And so you know, when folks getback to us and they say I tried
(38:24):
the workplace wellness toolkit,I've been doing the shake, it's
working incredible.
I managed to see this return ofmy investment.
I have a practice.
We love to hear it we love to,yeah, small change, big change.
We love that.
Chef James (38:38):
Oh, that's so cool.
I'm looking at the website.
You know they can go right onthere to meetings and take a
look at the scheduled meetings.
Did I read that?
Are there certain days youdon't have meetings or there's
less meetings during the week?
Jasmin (38:51):
Yes, currently, I think, our Friday Saturday.
No, I'm sorry, it's Thursday.
Friday, saturday there are nomeetings scheduled.
These things are always indevelopment, so you know stay
tuned, but the majority of ourmeetings.
We have one meeting happeningon Monday, we have four on
Tuesday, we have two onWednesday.
We have one on Sunday.
We have spaces for all women'smeetings, all men's meetings.
(39:15):
We have an offshoot childleadership meeting every now and
then.
Okay, there's a pop up.
We have a Spanish speakingmeeting.
Yes, and they're all availableonline through our website,
super accessible.
Chef James (39:28):
And that's awesome.
So also looking at othersupport avenues that you guys do
provide I mean you even helppeople financially on some
aspects as well right, we do sowe don't do this directly.
Jasmin (39:41):
A big part of our programming is called resource
brokering.
So what that means is that allCHOW folks, myself included, we
are all trained to know thevocationally specific resources
to help with the kind ofsituation that you might be
having.
So we have often folks thatcome to us and they say I'm a
victim of intimate partner abuse, do you know?
(40:04):
And I'm in the industry.
Do you know where I can go toget support?
We will sit with you while youfill out forms, while you call,
while you do a warm handoverwith someone.
Our official motto for this isthat you know I'm concerned
about the situation, but I'm not.
CHOW may not be the organizationthat has developed programming
around how to help, but we areall trained as to how to get you
(40:26):
to a warm handover and thencheck in with you a week later
to see how it's doing and thencheck in with you three weeks
later to see that you go out tothe right.
So we have just about.
If you check out our resourcepage and we encourage folks, you
know, take a look at theresources available and if you
need additional support, youjust fill out a form and we give
you a call and we sit on thephone with you and we do the
(40:46):
warm handover.
All of this is free and ithelps with anything you can
think of.
We've helped folks withfinancial assistance, domestic
violence situations, folks thatare trying to leave the industry
or go into the industry, resumejust about anything that you
can think of that folks in thefood, beverage, hospitality
(41:06):
industry might need support with.
We can sit with them and getthem to the appropriate place.
Chef James (41:12):
Okay and that's awesome.
When you guys are looking likeyou know sponsors and
partnerships.
How has that been for you guys?
Are you getting the support andthings that you needing that
and building?
Jasmin (41:23):
Yeah, we've been very fortunate so far.
We apply for a lot of grants.
We have a lot of wellnesssponsors and partners that want
to, you know, maybe sponsor ameet and greet in a specific
area.
We have Connect for HealthColorado, for example, has been
instrumental to our growth sofar.
Kaiser, they'll, you know, saywe'll sponsor this part of this
(41:47):
event to be able to do this.
And we have been incrediblyfortunate that, even though we
have never sought out thesupport of the food beverage
hospitality industry because wewant to raise the barriers to
entry, we do not solicitdonations or any of that we have
had folks who have just ralliedto fundraise for us by doing
things round up the check anddonate to Chow and their POS
(42:10):
systems or a cocktail for acause for Chow and donate, you
know, a dollar for each cocktailsold.
And we have received incrediblefundraising support from one of
the avenues that we largelydidn't expect, because it's the
community that we serve.
Chef James (42:26):
So we've been very fortunate so far for sure, okay,
as people are listening, howcan they get involved in that
aspect?
Who do they connect with and?
Jasmin (42:34):
so the cool part about our website is that we have a
contact us form that routes tomy email, so any questions would
arrive directly to me and Imake sure that folks are, you
know, going to the appropriateplace that they need support
with.
We also have a donate featureon the website.
If folks are choosing to donate, we sell merch that largely
funnels back in and you know,yeah, a forward facing way of
(42:57):
just kind of which is prettycool.
So, and we say, there's no smallway to participate in the
community and spreading themovement, it's easiest sharing a
social media post or assigninga petition, or you know, coming
to the mental health course,which is a free course, we
charge a $15 placeholder toreserve your spot, which is a
(43:17):
return to you.
But there are many ways tosupport the growth of the
community that don't necessarilyhave to be monetary.
But we are a nonprofit and soyou know the monetary part is a
necessary part to keep ourprogramming free of cost for our
professionals for sure.
Chef James (43:32):
Well and looking at as it develops, I mean, do you
actually see some of these hubsin the future branching further
out?
I mean that's quite a bit ofwork to do, but do you see that
in the future?
We love that work.
Jasmin (43:45):
It is not that we're afraid of.
We are currently actually inMarch.
We are rolling out our firstannouncement about rolling out
our first CHOW in DC meetingWe'll be moving to, we'll be
rather expanding to WashingtonDC and I'm assuming that very
much like it has historicallygone with CHOW, once one little
(44:06):
step is set into motion forgrowth, it usually picks up
after that.
Chef James (44:11):
Right.
Jasmin (44:12):
Always looking for ways to expand and grow the movement.
Chef James (44:14):
Well, that's a great problem to have Any final words
, any words of wisdom.
Jasmin (44:19):
Oh my gosh, Any words of wisdom.
Take good care of yourselves,for anyone that's listening,
take good care of yourselves.
You are so valued and we're soglad that you're here.
And, yeah, come join us, let'stalk about it.
Whatever it is, let's talkabout it.
I want folks to know.
Often the questions that we getIs this just an event fest?
(44:41):
Is it A for chefs?
First, it's for everyone in thefood beverage hospitality
industry and adjacent we evenhave an attendee that has been
with us for years who is just anally.
He's just a patron, a guy wholargely credits the food
beverage hospitality industryand those connections for
getting him through the pandemic.
When he was able to get takeout food and take it back home,
(45:04):
those were the only interactionshe had.
And post pandemic he came toone of our meetings and said I
just want to be a better patronand I just want to support you
folks.
How do I do that?
We have students, industrywriters, we have vets, industry
veterans, we have farmers.
We have, we have there are somany folks that are a part of
our all inclusive definition offood beverage hospitality and it
(45:28):
is an exceptional place to comeshare about your successes and
struggles with folks whofundamentally get it, have
either been or need support,because they are there and I
cannot speak about the benefitsenough and you can turn, you can
join us camera on, camera off,with an alias.
If that's what feels best, itis not required.
(45:50):
But if that's something thatyou need support with, we can
get you to the right place andit's a super welcoming, brave
space for anybody in the food,beverage, hospitality industry
and adjacent.
So come give it a try, is whatI would say, is my final words
wisdom.
Chef James (46:06):
That's so awesome.
I just want to say thank youall for you know your time,
jasmin, and what you do, whatthe group does there.
Thank you, yeah, all right,everyone.
That is a wrap.
You can check us out If youlike that.
Subscribe Also the InstagramChef Massey.
Let's keep it simple, ChefMassey.
com.
(46:27):
Have a good one.
Bye for now.
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