Discover the secrets behind fostering a deep appreciation for food production and sustainability with Maryann from Bard College at Simon's Rock. In this enlightening episode, we revisit a heartwarming alumni reunion where attendees harvested and prepared a fresh garden salad. Maryann shares her inspiring journey as a French literature professor and food studies educator, detailing her innovative approach to blending academic learning with practical food-making sessions and farm visits. Learn how her leadership at the Center for Food and Resilience, which includes managing a farm, sugar shack, and apiary, provides students with immersive, hands-on experiences that transform their understanding of food systems.
Concluding with a sneak peek into the upcoming Think Food Conference, we celebrate the powerful connection between local agriculture and community well-being, emphasizing the importance of generational wisdom and the resurgence of homegrown produce. Tune in to explore how food education can cultivate a resilient, healthy community.
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Chef James (00:16):
I'm your host, Chef Massey.
Okay, so today on the podcast,I'm really excited We've got
Maryann here from Bard Collegeat Simon's Rock.
How's it going?
How are you?
Maryann (00:26):
I'm great.
It's very nice to be in summermode these days.
So beautiful weather yes.
Chef James (00:32):
Oh, yeah, yeah, the gardens are going and you know
the farms are rolling.
Maryann (00:36):
So yeah, yes, we just got started.
We had our first event June 1st.
We had alumni reunion on thecampus and for the second year
in a row, we've hosted an eventwhere we harvest salad from the
farm garden.
We make a salad on the farm andeverybody helps and then we
serve it to the people who havecome to the reunion.
(00:57):
So that was really fun.
Chef James (01:01):
Oh, that's so great.
Wow, how many people attendthat.
Maryann (01:05):
We had about 50 people, so we're we're a very small
school.
Chef James (01:09):
Yeah, but still that's a lot of lettuce.
You know a lot of it was prettygood.
Maryann (01:14):
Our arugula is going pretty well.
We had some micro greens.
I got to give credit to myfarmer, dan Wood, who does all
of that, but it was really funbecause you get people from some
of the alums, from all thedifferent years, and they bring
their families and we bring themout into the field and we're
about just over an acre, so it'snot a huge place, and we say
here's how you do it, and nowyou do it, and then they'll
(01:35):
harvest the arugula.
We were just clippingmicrogreens with scissors Wow,
yeah, we have a sugar shack oncampus too, so we had our own
maple syrup that we added to thedressing.
So that was very local.
Chef James (01:47):
That's so great.
Well, and that's I guess goinginto it there's.
You do wear a few hats there.
I mean, do you want to?
Do you want to go into how, howthat is for you?
I mean?
Maryann (01:59):
Yes, and it's pretty recent in some ways.
So I I am a professor of French, so that's my background French
literature.
Chef James (02:07):
And.
Maryann (02:07):
I still teach courses in French language and French
literature, and then my researchbackground is in food.
So I study and research Frenchfood history and some Italian
food as well, and so I'vestarted to teach those classes.
I have a course on French food,a course on fermented food,
which is really fun.
I have an intro to food studiescourse where we talk about food
(02:29):
access and justice and heritage.
We talk about what local foodis here and where local food
belongs, what's authentic, whichis a really difficult question.
And then I have a cheese coursewhere we learn about cheese,
talk about the history of it,and in each of those courses
there's a discussion section andthen there's a making session.
(02:51):
So one week we talk and we readand discuss and they write
papers, and the other day of theweek we make things.
So we make cheese in that classVery simple, fresh cheese.
And then the other part of itfor a couple of those is is
visits to all of the beautifulplaces around here.
So we went to highland farm tolearn about cheese we had them
(03:11):
come to us and do a cheesetasting, because we obviously
can't do aged cheeses in thesure kind of a semester, so we
can do halloumi and, uh, verybasic farmer's cheese.
They bring their beautiful agedcheeses to us and the students
get to learn and ask all kindsof questions.
That's one of my philosophiesis I'm not an expert on
everything, so I bring in theexperts and we have so many in
(03:32):
this area and they're verygenerous and come talk to the
students and that occasionallyleads to internships or even a
path to a career, sometimesExciting to see a path to a
career, sometimes, okay,exciting to see.
Chef James (03:47):
Wow, that's, it's great.
I mean we, we really arewrapped with a lot of producers.
You know, in many aspects Ithink we're what?
Over four, is it 475 or 450just in the Berkshire region of
like farms and producers of.
You know it's unbelievable.
And and it's it's interesting,you say that too because I know,
like Topher up at Cricket CreekFarm, you know they back in the
(04:08):
day did cheese classes.
So you know, making theMaggie's round.
You know I can say from being achef that you know if a cook or
even a server and anybody thatwere to go up and do these
classes, you know, and you being, you know, such a valuable
educator and taking someone in,it's like walking the fields or
(04:29):
picking, you know you get such ahigh level of appreciation for
the craft for foraging.
Oh, it's, it's unbelievable.
Maryann (04:40):
And what it takes to produce food and what it?
Should cost what it does cost,and it does give them exposure,
students exposure to what theymight like to do.
But if nothing else, you gointo the dining hall the next
day and you think, oh right,this isn't so easy.
This is, this takes a lot oflabor and we're not as
appreciative as we should be andmaybe they think more about
where their food comes from andand what they eat and how they
eat.
Chef James (05:00):
Yeah, Well, that's funny.
It's funny because you look atlike some of the kids they go to
the grocery store and that juststops there.
Maryann (05:08):
Right, that's as far as it goes.
So the other part of my job isrunning the Center for Food and
Resilience, which includes thefarm, includes our sugar, our
maple syrup operation.
It includes the apiary with ourhoney production Amazing, I
don't, yeah.
So I'm supervising all of thoseplaces, but I don't necessarily
do the work.
We have a great faculty memberin environmental studies who
(05:30):
runs the apiary.
We have somebody else who ismanaging the sugar shack, and
students are involved in all ofthat work.
So, we produce Simon's Rockhoney.
The students have a class wherethey learn to manage the hives
and they learn about the historyof it and they have debates
about it.
And then learn to manage thehives and they learn about the
history of it, and and they havedebates about it.
(05:51):
And then they process the honey.
Same thing, yeah, and the maplesyrup class.
They do a history of maplesyrup production in the region,
okay, which is really good forthem to know, and I'm certain
that a lot of them have neverthought about where maple syrup
comes from yeah, or how long ittakes to get that one quarter,
one cup or whatever here it isyes, yeah, yeah yeah it can be,
depending on the student.
Can be chemistry or physics.
So we have a reverse osmosissystem that we just installed
(06:12):
this year.
Oh, very nice so that makes itmore efficient.
But then you talk to thestudents about what that is and
how it works and sure and thenthe last uh piece that I manage
is our conference, our annualconference called think food yep
it.
That's in November, november16th, this year.
Chef James (06:27):
Okay.
Maryann (06:28):
And that's yeah.
So it's a different theme everyyear and I invite again the
experts from all over because wehave so many of them and we do
workshops and there are panelsand it's a way for people who
want to know more about the foodsystem to learn more about it.
And really what I want to do isshare, kind of what you do with
this podcast, share theexciting work that people are
doing around here.
That may not get enough press,it may not get enough pleasure.
(06:55):
Wow, yeah, it's for students,but it's also for we have a
really active community of food,interested people in the
Berkshires and they do come out.
Chef James (07:01):
That's great, Okay, and do you find I mean you cover
so many aspects of it what doyou find that the students take
away from the most?
Maryann (07:12):
I mean, that's kind of a broad question, but I really
think the most popular part ofthe courses I teach is that
hands-on part.
Part of it is it's fun andthere really is something you
know there's very well.
There's something about makingfood with people.
It's a whole differentatmosphere.
It's a very different way ofinteracting with somebody else
when you've made food andcollaborated together.
(07:33):
It's also really good lifeskills.
Some of them have not reallyheld a knife or never thought
about how to cook an egg.
Some of that is true, but Ithink also it's that they sort
of have to be brave and maybeI'm asking them to flip a crepe,
and they've never done thatbefore and they're standing in
front of their friends, sothere's a little bit of trying
something new.
I think that's valuable.
(07:54):
But in the other, there's aclass that I teach that's called
Sustainable Local Food.
Wow, it's an internationalcourse, which is to say that we
have Simon's Rock students hereand then we connect online with
students from other places,including Taiwan and Austria and
anyway, lots of other places.
So we do farm visits here andthe Berkshires is a completely
(08:15):
different place in terms oflocal agriculture from the
Midwest, but definitely fromthose other places I'm
mentioning and so we take themon farm visits and that you see
the eyes opening and the realunderstanding taking place.
They get the sense, as you'resaying, of how hard it is to be,
what kind of work is involvedin being a farmer and what
different elements you have tomanage.
It's the economics of it.
(08:36):
It's the business part of it.
It's thinking about where yourworkers are going to live,
because housing is reallydifficult.
Oh, yes, yeah, and then you getand then the food part of it.
So what we've even had farmerstalk to us about, I, like the
farmer, wants to sell kohlrabibecause they just love kohlrabi.
Well, is that going to work inCSA, or you're?
Chef James (08:54):
telling you.
Maryann (08:55):
I don't know what to do with the kohlrabi.
Chef James (08:56):
Yeah.
Maryann (08:58):
And the food access part.
The same way, our farm producesfood in the summer, when our
season is the highest, but ourstudents don't.
We don't have a summer session,so a lot of our produce we
donate to food pantries.
Chef James (09:11):
Oh, okay, yes.
Maryann (09:12):
So, which is great and wonderful and great for students
to do that work, but you alsothink about what do people going
to food pantries want to eatand what can they, what do they
have time to process?
So we need to, so that all isreally valuable experience for
the students and to think aboutright.
Chef James (09:27):
Do you go into food like preparation storage, like
canning?
I mean off-season storage.
Maryann (09:34):
We would like to get there in the fermented foods
class we do right on that but wehaven't quite done value-added
yet here, except except for thehoney and the maple syrup.
But we, for example, grow a lotof herbs and we just made a tea
blend that we're going to try.
We're going to give out samplesat our farm stand and see how
people like it, and then maybewe'll think about that.
Chef James (09:54):
OK.
Maryann (09:55):
Not yet, but that's something else that is of
interest.
Chef James (09:58):
So do you have any like, do you have any animals in
the field?
Maryann (10:01):
I mean, do you see that working in, or we did have
chickens this year, but becausethe students they think they
don't understand that it's a24-7 job so and in the winter we
don't have a frost free faucetnearby, so it was difficult to
get to maintain the chickens.
So we ended up making thedecision to give them to another
(10:25):
farm where they had more roomand more care and the students
were.
We had a long discussion aboutit.
They really liked the eggs.
The eggs were fantastic, thefreshest, and that was another
way we could respond to foodaccess.
So some of the students do haveneeds.
They don't.
They're on the dining hall mealplan maybe, but they don't have
maybe enough money to buy food.
So it was a great source ofprotein for students.
Chef James (10:47):
Oh, that's great yeah.
Maryann (10:47):
Loved it, but it takes a lot of work and a lot of
management and we just couldn't.
We're too small to really makethat go.
Chef James (10:52):
Okay.
Maryann (10:53):
So we don't currently have any animals.
A few years ago we had hostedsome pigs, sort of a shared
agreement.
A local farm was offering tohave um take the pigs for a
season and then we would sharein the bounty when the pigs were
slaughtered.
But we didn't get that farbecause the students really
liked letting the pigs go.
Letting the pigs one of theirpens.
(11:15):
Yeah, and then you get a callthat somebody had to get the pig
out of the pond and it right,we ended that experiment, yeah
yeah, oh my gosh, yeah, thatprobably would have been a lot
of fun.
Chef James (11:27):
At least it wasn't goats, you know, then they
really yes, I don't think I wantto.
Maryann (11:32):
We had sheep too, but the sheep farmer was an alum and
would come regularly andmaintain the sheep.
Chef James (11:38):
So, yeah, those are.
Those are kind of fun too,though.
On our farm, northernCalifornia, my cousins were in
FFA and that was, you know,being a part of that and that
process growing up around allthat it's, you know, I think,
the farm environment.
I wish every kid could havethat experience because it's
(12:00):
really rich.
I wouldn't have picked thecareer path that I did today had
I not had amazing people thatshowed me, you know, because we
had our 400 acre farm inNorthern California.
I know we shared a little bitabout you know that and some
things that went on that led meinto the path of looking at our
(12:20):
food system too over the manyyears.
But you know, being able to geton that land with a family
member and just work the land.
You know whether it's liftingmainline or doing anything or
going out and picking something.
You know like the kids go outand grab something and you're
like now we're going to make,you know, a soup out of this.
Or the kohlrabi, let's make akohlrabi tart, or right, you
(12:43):
know let's ferment this and sure, and the lacto, you know the
lacto fermentation, thelactobacillus, that happens, um,
you know.
Or making that cheese and youknow cutting the curd and
separating the whey, and there'sa lot of work involved, you
know, um, that's thinking aboutthe start, you know I and
thinking about the start.
Maryann (13:03):
You know I was thinking about the less fun jobs on the
farm weeding, composting butthen you understand how
necessary that is and that fooddoesn't happen unless we do
those jobs too Right.
And I think the students reallyI'm surprised by some of them
in my classes who really take tothat and I wouldn't necessarily
choose them, but there'ssomething really meditative
about it or there can be Sure.
(13:23):
And just get outside, choosethem, but there's something
really meditative about, orthere can be sure and just get
outside and we have a beautifulspace here in the berkshire, so
the birds come along.
You see the sky change you yeahyou're outside in the, in the
winds blowing, you know, it'sjust a lovely place, and so I
think to get them to experiencethat is really valuable to,
along with the hard work surey'all need to do sometimes.
Just right, yeah work.
Chef James (13:43):
It's so great.
When you see them light up it'slike, oh, there they go, they
see it.
But I mean speaking of all theprogramming that you do do, and
you mentioned small.
I mean really, what size are welooking at?
Maryann (13:55):
So we have about 300 students on campus.
Chef James (13:58):
Okay.
Maryann (13:58):
And that's.
We have two programs.
We have a college programthat's a four-year program, and
we have an academy which is aninth and tenth grade, which is
much smaller.
But, um, and so all of thosestudents are here.
Not all of them live on campus.
Some of them are day students,um, some of them study abroad.
so we were talking about italyas we as we came into the
conversation.
So we have a study abroadprogram in italy for students in
(14:22):
food studies, which which isone of our majors we call them
concentrations, but it's a majorso there are students abroad at
different times of the year.
So it's small and you do get toknow everybody, but that also
means that you know them welland they know you well and
there's lots of hands-onattention and it's really good
(14:43):
to it's.
It's a good group.
It's about 10 or 15 students ina class, so that's a nice
manageable you really can.
If I'm teaching a food class,that's about all I want.
Um.
Chef James (14:54):
I don't want more.
Maryann (14:56):
So, and in the field too, we can we teach.
I teach a 10th grade academyclass called organic farming and
soil science.
Chef James (15:04):
Okay.
Maryann (15:06):
Yeah, a 10th grade academy class called organic
farming and soil science.
Okay, yeah, and we essentiallygive them in teams, we give them
beds and they grow seeds thatwe've chosen and then they do
experiments on might becompanion planting, might be
soil testing.
Um, and that's a good age tostart yeah because they may not
have done much of it, yeah andum, and then they we say we
start from.
You know an undone bed, so youhave to take the weeds out and
(15:28):
oh, wow use the fork to till itand then put some compost on and
then you plant the seeds andthen you watch and you compare
your bed to others next to youand yeah, it's really
fascinating.
And in the end we harvest andtake it to the dining hall.
So we parade across campus andpresented, so we take them into
the back door of the dining hall.
They may not have known.
That's how they may not havebeen through.
(15:49):
And and then they really do takea pride.
Take some pride in that foodthat they've grown right then
they're eating in their meals,or I hope they tell your the
friends about it too oh yeah, Imean I'm sure they do you know.
Chef James (16:04):
Now, in the acreage though, I mean, what's the total
acreage you're looking at?
Because it's so.
Maryann (16:10):
The campus is about 300 acres.
Chef James (16:11):
Okay, there we go.
It's a very big space.
Maryann (16:19):
Yeah, that's great campus and the upper campus is
more upper level studentsbecause it's a bit of a hike.
Okay, the campus is more of allthe classrooms and the library
and the farm administrativebuildings, but the sugar shack,
for example, is on upper campus,so that's far away.
So we do have quite a lot ofland, but we don't necessarily
use it all directly.
Chef James (16:40):
Yeah, Do you do any mushroom foraging at all?
I mean, I'm sure you know.
Maryann (16:44):
It's funny, it kind of comes in phases.
So we had, at one of the ThinkFood conferences a couple of
years ago, we did have a foragercome and sort of take you on a
walk and show you what's safe.
And then every couple of yearsI'll have a group of students
that's very interested andthey'll go into the woods and
find, you know, we found morels.
Yep, we found some pretty good.
Oh wow and some other good onesand we have a botanist who will
(17:07):
verify your find.
So we tell you know, we tellstudents unless you really know
what you're doing, don't eat itunless you've asked.
Chef James (17:13):
Right.
Maryann (17:14):
And so I think they share that knowledge with each
other, and so we don't have acourse on it, necessarily, but
we do have students who areinterested.
Chef James (17:21):
Wow, that's so great .
And then looking at, forexample, like your maple
production, I mean how manytrees do you have?
I mean, do you have a?
Maryann (17:28):
want to get to to sort of up the production.
So we're talking about reallyworking on that sugar bush and
making it neater and taking outsome of the dead trees and yeah
(17:52):
and increasing our production,again with the help of students,
because we want this right, no,that's great.
Chef James (17:59):
And then is there, for example I mean, do you have
like fruit trees, trees, isthere an orchard?
Maryann (18:05):
We do have an orchard.
That was here when the campuswas originally a farm.
Chef James (18:11):
Yeah.
Maryann (18:12):
The person who started the school took her family's
farm and turned it into Simon'sRock, and so we do have some
older apple trees.
Chef James (18:21):
Okay.
Maryann (18:22):
Yeah, and we don't take great care of them because they
sort of ended up being lesserin importance.
But they do produce fruit.
So in October we collect theapples that we have and we have
a for family weekend.
We have a cider press, food andresilience does a cider press
and we press fresh.
It's not really cider, I guess,if it's fresh apple juice and
(18:43):
and we also do an apple tasting,oh cool.
So the fruit trees on campusthat we can identify will have
tastings.
And there again.
That's education.
We'll bring in other localapples from other places.
Taft Farms is a good one.
We have labels and then we letpeople vote for their favorite
and they debate yeah.
Chef James (19:02):
Oh, that's so cool.
Yeah, i'll's parents come fromcalifornia and say I've never
tasted that, I've never evenheard of this kind of apple and
oh yeah, that's fun it'sunbelievable, the varieties I
mean I worked a lot with likehilltop orchard back in the day,
but I love using their productall the time.
Yes, of course there's bartletttoo, so yes, yes um, they're
both great orchards, but that'sso cool.
(19:24):
Have you done any apple butterwith it or anything like that?
Maryann (19:28):
No, we really don't.
I mean, it depends on the year.
We don't get too too manyapples and we do have pear trees
as well.
Chef James (19:34):
Oh nice.
Maryann (19:35):
Yeah, so we need to see if those are producing again.
So we don't really have enoughto make the product, so we just
use it for that one event.
And then I do have studentsagain.
They find out that we have anapple press, cider press, and
they asked to borrow it.
So I had a student and hemust've gone somewhere else to
get the apples.
And then he a couple of timesasked to press the, so sure.
Chef James (19:53):
Okay.
Maryann (19:54):
That's the advantage of having a small place is that
they can contact me and say I'dlike to use this piece of
equipment, and usually I can sayyes, please go ahead, just kind
of check it out, okay, yeahclean it up when you're done,
and then we'll Wow.
Chef James (20:07):
So in regards to I know you were saying you deal
with food pantries and I talkedyou know I was talking to
Berkshire Grown.
I've had them on a couple timesin a few different ways, but
that Berkshire Mobile FarmersMarket yes.
Maryann (20:22):
That's pretty awesome.
It's pretty amazing whatthey're doing.
Yeah, and I happen to knowabout them because I have worked
in different ways at BerkshireGrown but we have electric
charging spots on campus.
This is again the way a collegecan serve a community in a
strange way that you may notimagine.
And they needed a place tocharge that van and we said, yes
, of course we should bring ithere and charge it, but they,
(20:42):
yes, they have a mobile marketthat they go up to North County
and distribute fresh produce and, yeah, it's a whole system.
Chef James (20:49):
And.
Maryann (20:50):
Birch Bounty is another really great organization in
the local area Outstanding.
Chef James (20:54):
Yeah, unbelievable work.
Yeah, you know, with the foodinsecurity.
So I guess, kind of going intothat, you know I know we kind of
talked about, like with DrNessel, mary Nessel, about, you
know, food politics and our foodsystem.
You know I think it's reallypowerful the work you know that
you're doing there.
You know the center in theprograms that are provided there
(21:16):
in kind of combating or forginga new thought process.
I think you know in our countryI think that we've come a long
way, especially within the last,you know, 10 or 15 years.
But just seeing this like await moment, I don't know if I
would say an aha moment, but,like you know, wait a second
(21:39):
yeah.
And you know, I think it'ssomething to as being in the
Berkshires all of our producersand people.
They're very cognizant anddedicated to understanding what
they're putting on their plateand how they can affect their
own economy on their plate andhow they can affect their own
economy.
And I think it's great theprogram that you do there.
(22:00):
What do you find, like you know, as you work through it,
building that and keep addingeach year?
How do you work through thatprocess of developing all these
programs that you offer?
Maryann (22:12):
Well, it's great because I always say that if you
have an idea, come to me andwe'll figure out how to do it.
So it's really great to be in adynamic place like the
Berkshires, where there are lotsof ideas and people may just
need a little space to meet, orthey might need a couple of
students to be interns, orsomething, oh, okay.
Yeah.
So we really provide, I think,a value there.
(22:33):
But we partner with a lot ofpeople.
That's how we do all the thingsthat do um.
So extra special teas isanother.
Oh, they're great, aren't they?
So we contacted them early onwhen the center for food and
resilience started, and sherryuh wondered if we could
collaborate.
And so those uh folks come tosimon's rock, to the farm, and
(22:54):
they are growing some herbs andplants for their tea blends, and
it's both that they needed somespace to grow because they
didn't have land, and we havesome space and a good
interaction.
So learn a few techniques.
Might be learning about farminga little bit, just to get
outside and work in a group, andthen our students at the same
(23:15):
time can can learn how to uh,how to teach, maybe a little bit
or okay with other people, soit's a really it's been a really
great collaboration and ourstudents have worked at the
extra specialties uh shop onceor twice um.
So that's a very nicecollaboration and again we have
the space.
They they're very happy towelcome them and they it's.
(23:36):
It's really fun for all of us.
And there's lots of othercollaborations like that that
happen.
So I work.
I'm on the board of BerkshireAgricultural Ventures, which is
another nonprofit supportingfarmers in the area, and they
we've had intern students whowork there as interns.
They are a sponsor of Think.
Food Berkshire is also asponsor of think food.
(23:58):
Okay, also a sponsor of thinkfood, and so when they have a
speaker that I might want toknow about, they let me know, or
if they have an amazing farmthat they were supporting.
Chef James (24:07):
Sure.
Maryann (24:08):
It's.
It's a good sort of back andforth that we have in the
community.
That's really helpful to me andyou know we Simon's Rock is not
a formal place, so we really doa lot of community work you
know we can accommodate it.
There's not a lot ofbureaucracy, there's not too
many impediments to reaching outand making a collaboration.
(24:30):
So that's a lot of what I'vedone.
Chef James (24:32):
So you really get an opportunity to have some level
of great freedom really.
Maryann (24:37):
Yes, yes, that is a great advantage of Simon's Rock
is that they want to encourageus.
Again, we're small.
We want the students to haveexperiences, however, we can
make them happen.
So, yes, if we can reach out tosomebody in the community, we
should do that.
And it's a small town, so Ithink Simon's Rock is not as
(24:58):
well known as maybe it should be.
So that's it's good for us toinvite people onto campus, and
but I always think we have space, we have facilities.
I'd like to share them.
Chef James (25:06):
And.
Maryann (25:07):
I'm empowered to do that.
Chef James (25:08):
OK, no, that's, that's just.
That's great Looking at.
I guess you know moving forward.
I mean you cover so many otherprograms.
You cover a lot.
Are there programs that in thefuture you'd love to see develop
into more?
Maryann (25:25):
We're always thinking about new, what we can do next.
I think our focus right now isdeveloping Sugar Shack, maybe
doing more of that, and so wehad an idea of having a Maple
Day, and again it's alleducation oriented.
So could we invite people tolearn how to do it or to maybe
update what they have or learnfrom other people who do it in a
bigger way than we do.
So that's one we have an ideawith our summer.
(25:51):
So I have some summer studentsworking on the farm and we'd
like to sort of rotate and sharework crews with other farms in
the area.
So Greenagers is anorganization that does really
great work like this.
They have work crews and Idon't know if they're doing it
right now, but they used tooffer to rotate around and sort
of give shared labor to otherfarms.
You might just need a day ofpicking or a day of weeding.
(26:13):
So I'd like to offer that moreto our students, but also to the
other farms who might need alittle.
So I'd like to offer that moreto our students, but also to the
other farms who might need alittle support, a little
assistance.
And I'd like to grow ThinkFoodto a bigger event.
It's a great event and I justwould like more people to know
about it and serve more peoplethat way, yeah.
(26:38):
And then I think you know thedining hall.
We again, our seasons are alittle off, so we produce the
most food in in the summer, butour dining hall is not working
at full capacity in the summerbecause we don't have summer
classes I can't use quite a bitfor other groups.
But I'd like to sort of if wecould move toward a greenhouse
or a high tunnel, we could domore extended season crops and
really oh, okay, yeah, yeah, andyou don't have okay, okay yeah,
so, yeah.
So that's, those are some, someideas.
Chef James (27:00):
Okay, nice.
Well, so looking at you as suchan important educator and these
programs that are going on,what?
What are your drivers?
I mean what you know, whatpropels you into developing all
this and what's at the heartthat drives you?
Maryann (27:22):
Well, I've been fascinated by food for as long
as I can remember, so I really Icall myself an omnivore.
I'm sort of an omnivore in theresearch part too.
I'm really interested in all ofit, and I did not come from a
farming background.
It's really sort of amusing tosome of my colleagues to see
what the work that I'm doing now.
So I'm just interested in allof it and I really am empowered.
(27:45):
I'm really charged up by seeingwhat wonderful work farmers do
and food people and then themost generous people I know.
So I think I'm reallyencouraged by what the work they
do and I just want to know more.
And again, since I have thefreedom at Simon's Rock to sort
of develop my own programs,that's also a real energy
benefit.
But in my work with studentsteaching they really bring the
(28:11):
enthusiasm.
That's what makes me want to doit.
So I really want to meet theneeds of students or the desire
of students as much as I can.
So I really want to meet theneeds of students or the desire
of students as much as I can andwe can.
In a small place like this, Ican develop a new course that
might feed the need of somebodywho just thought of I'd really
like to know more about thistopic, and we do it together and
we can do that.
So I mean the energy they bringto the courses that I teach
(28:32):
where there's a cooking sectionor a hands-on section is really
enthusiastic and reallyempowering for me.
So that's what I'm doing, andthen I really I get to spend my
career pursuing something thatI'm genuinely interested in.
So I'm about to head off to aconference in Italy, which is
(28:54):
exactly the site of our studyabroad food studies program, but
I'm going there to present apaper about French food, and
I've written a couple of bookson French food and published
some articles.
So I get to go to Italy and eatfantastic food and be immersed
in it while I'm doing my work,while I'm actually doing
professional work.
So that's really amazing to me.
(29:15):
I can't believe I got that.
Chef James (29:16):
I think that's so great.
Maryann (29:20):
Yeah, it's not when I went to graduate students
graduate school, for I went tograduate school for French
literature and I still I'mpassionate about French
literature and still teach itsomewhat, but this is this has
become my new, my new passion.
Chef James (29:34):
Right, well, that's, that's so great.
It's funny Cause I know we weretalking.
I just got back from Italymyself, you know, and it's.
It's such a beautiful country,the culture, the art, it's kind
of mind-blowing.
And again going into it as achef, oh, yes you know, yeah,
looking at what they produce andyou know I had their produce I
(29:56):
mean I had what I would calllike a.
It would be like a Saturn peach.
It was kind of like more of aflat peach disc shape.
And I found a small.
Where we were staying was asmall village and I went to the
market there, a very smallmarket, with one of the ladies
who you know probably has ran itfor many, many years, and I
(30:17):
went in there.
I was just mind blown at all ofthe selections she actually had
in there.
It was like a very small space.
It might have been 150 squarefeet or something, but like not
and so, going through theproduce and then even that peach
that I got one day that was alittle under ripe, I was like
(30:38):
I'm just going to go ahead andeat this, you know, and I did,
and I was still blown away byall of the flavor that was in
that peach.
And then, you know, I went backa couple of days later and you
know, obviously they were ripeand got some more but, um, you
know, they're ripening the bloodoranges.
I couldn't believe the?
(30:58):
I mean, there there's themembrane.
It was so thin because thosecitrus pearls were so full of
juice that, like it was almostjust you cut it open.
You're like, wow, you know, orsome of the melons, you know, I
can't.
You know, I think I'm veryanalytical about it.
I'm going, okay, I'm gratefulfor, you know, my country and
(31:21):
our producers, from our entirecountry.
But like, looking at how we'vebeen so assertive in pushing our
ag system Right, and you know,and talking to Dr Nessel about
that, we literally producedouble the amount of calories in
(31:42):
product that we need for a manor a woman to sustain themselves
daily, you know, it's kind ofmind blowing, you know.
So it's like geez, we're insuch a hurry to feed and, yes,
we're a massive country and alot of mouths to feed but I'm
like, wow, if we could.
Just, you know, it's like usingour local farms.
(32:03):
Here they have that presence ofbeing able to.
I don't want to say slow farm,because that's like slow food,
right, Like you know, slowfarming is like letting
something take that time itneeds to develop the flavor, to
develop the sugars you knowwhether it's a piece of fruit or
(32:25):
an animal Right you know.
Maryann (32:28):
And harvesting at exactly the right time You're
talking about the ripeness ofthe peach right.
So maybe it's not the week topick, whatever it is but when
you get it from the farmer'smarket, it will be, it will be.
Chef James (32:38):
It's excellent, you know or you go to taft and they
have their, the strawberriesthat they bring in um, or, you
know, indian line farm, or someof these, or the berry patch I
mean, yes, they're all, they'reall outstanding, you know and to
be able to be spoiled in theBerkshires and the chef.
You know I share with chefsacross the country that New
(33:01):
England and the Berkshires it.
It's like, you know, I'm givenall of these colors by such
gifted people that as a chef,it's like all right, man, now
you've got to do it, I've got tobe right by everybody.
Maryann (33:24):
And I think there's a public for it too that you're.
You're eating people who reallywant that and recognize that
great quality, and I hope theywant to pay what you deserve to
be paid for.
It too is the other side.
Chef James (33:37):
but yeah, you do.
You hope for it.
I mean it's you know I'm ableto do what I can with it.
But you know our farms, youknow it's it's not easy for them
and it's, it's hard for them toyou know.
Make that money off of that youknow to you know, make that
money off of that.
(33:58):
You know that potato Right andyou know, coming from a.
You know our farm, a good sizefarm in California.
I that's where, like I know, wetalked about it.
But seeing the monster, youknow behind the curtain, in a
sense of the mass production orthe push for corn and the push
for soybeans and some of theseother things, um, where you have
(34:19):
just fields everywhere, youknow, or the way the animals are
treated you know right you canuh exactly the stockyards and
the pen right, the effect on thesoil and you know, but we only
have this one earth, uh.
Maryann (34:33):
so we need to think about where that's going, and
that's consumer led too.
You know, we have some power asconsumers to say that's not the
way I want my food to be.
Chef James (34:43):
Right.
Maryann (34:43):
If you have the privilege to make those choices
and I think that's part of whatwe teach our students is that
you do have to say and you canask the dining hall, for example
, to bring in more local food,and they will listen because
you're the consumer.
Chef James (34:57):
Yeah, that's great.
Maryann (34:59):
So, and yeah, I do like that big picture lesson that we
try to teach and I think you'reright that these local farms
they make amazing, they growamazing produce and there's lots
of meat farmers around here toothat give us amazing products
and I just want them to keepgoing.
I think we do.
(35:21):
I mean, if you go to thefarmer's market, it's lively,
there's lots of people, there'slots of fans.
Chef James (35:25):
And.
Maryann (35:26):
I think it's a vibrant food location, so I'm lucky to
be here too.
That's how I feel, oh yeah.
Chef James (35:32):
It's so great and and it's, and there are under.
There are organizations in ourcommunity like bav, you know um.
I had jake levin and oh yes,ren, on you know and how they
work together and what they'redealing with and you know,
you're, you're, you'reintermixed as well and in some
of conversations it's like themore people that I meet and talk
(35:55):
about.
Maryann (35:56):
And lots of interweaving of different
organizations, which isnecessary in a small place.
Chef James (36:01):
Oh, absolutely, yeah , absolutely.
And you know, working throughthose relationships and even
some of the things that you know, like Jake had mentioned, you
know my goal is for us todevelop this thing so that these
farmers can be in their fields.
You know my goal is for us todevelop this thing so that these
farmers can be in their fields.
You know these ranchers, theycan be the producer they need to
(36:22):
be doing what they love to doand hopefully we can take, you
know, some of these otherassistance programs, or you know
logistic support programs sothat they can just keep
producing Right.
Maryann (36:37):
And that's pretty awesome.
Yes, and I think that's.
A great value of BAV and that'swhy I'm happy to be on their
board is that they can keep thefarmers farming and bring them
this information or thesetrainings or whatever it is they
might need, and then we cankeep having a healthy farm
system here.
And it goes beyond theBerkshires too Taconic and
Hudson Valley and LitchfieldCounty.
Chef James (36:57):
So yeah, it's an amazing organization.
Maryann (36:59):
It's just a really top-notch staff.
Chef James (37:02):
Yeah, I mean, and I think what's really powerful is
that it is a nucleus of verytalented people, but I think the
most important is that they'rethey're passionate, they're
committed, they're driven.
Absolutely Everything else willcome out of that because it's
going to happen.
Maryann (37:20):
Yes, that's right.
And insightful too.
I mean to recognize whatfarmers might need, or listen
when farmers say here, thisisn't working so well, what are
the solutions?
Chef James (37:32):
Right, so well, what are the solutions?
Right, well, and that's theother thing, like programs and
technology and some of theseother things that you know.
They may not have been awarethat.
Hey, if you go on the websiteyou can look this up and get you
know further information on it,and it's just so amazing to
know that that's being put inplace because it's you know,
that's not the.
(37:52):
It may be a concern, that's infront of you, but finding the
resources is not always theeasiest especially when you're
very busy doing all the otherthings required of you, right?
well, you know before you know,like I always said it was, you
know you're.
You're going before the suncomes up and you're still going
after the sun sets, especiallyharvest time too, definitely.
(38:13):
Or if you're adding animal, youknow care, you know that
extends those hours even moreRight.
Maryann (38:22):
Yes, we were talking to .
I took my students to visitFreund Farm, oh yeah.
And that's a dairy farm,they're great.
They are great and they havethese amazing robotic milkers oh
, okay we hadn't.
I had never seen before.
My students found the bestthing.
But yeah, to talk about whatthe what the day is like and
(38:42):
yeah it.
Cows do not know that it'ssunday or that it's christmas no
, no, they just move yeah theyjust eat they, they need so and
they appreciate the pressurerelease.
Chef James (38:54):
Yes, right, it's more comfortable.
Maryann (38:57):
It was fascinating to watch that organism I guess is
what you'd call it, and thethought that goes into how you
keep going Right.
The cow pots Do you know aboutthe cow pots?
Chef James (39:08):
Well, it's funny, I actually went down to Forens
because I get stuff for our yarddown there oh great, and those,
yeah, I've got the.
Actually went down to fourrings because I get stuff for
our yard down there oh great,and those, yeah, I've got their,
the moopoo and all this stuff,yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm stocked and
those are great though yeah, itwas fascinating for the
students to see okay, here'ssomething else that's
environmental but also serves aneed.
Maryann (39:28):
um, because people want these pots to plant in and then
they don't have to think abouttossing them aside.
Right, and it goes right in theearth and it's better for your
plants.
Chef James (39:37):
And it breaks right down.
Maryann (39:39):
Yeah.
So, the innovation and theentrepreneurship there.
That's right here in our areaand I love to see the students
kind of click on to that andthink well, you know there is a
place for creativity and youknow, the jobs that you might
have someday are not the onesnecessarily that you have in
your head.
Chef James (39:56):
Right, well, and that's the thing, and I think
too also especially wherefarming in our country,
especially in the Berkshires too, is.
Yeah, we've discussed and beenfocused on regenerative farming
for a long time, but then you'regetting into the no-till.
Maryann (40:12):
Yes.
Chef James (40:13):
And that's.
You know again, I, you knowit's the more conventional way
and you know you have themachinery and it's cutting down
your time and this and that andthe labor and whatever.
But then you know you'reripping it.
You know everything apartthat's been built or that's
sustaining itself there in thesoil.
But then you know, when youlook at the no-till-till you're
(40:33):
like that's a whole, notherpiece of appreciation.
Yes, get on that fork and startdancing you know that's right.
Maryann (40:42):
Yeah, one thing to watch, it's another thing to do
it yourself and oh yeah when wego on these farm visits,
sometimes says when woven rootsis a good one.
So yeah, jen and peter areamazing yeah well, she'll say
here's the fork, here you cantry it, and that makes an
impression on students when theygo.
And such a beautiful place Imean, yeah, neat as a pin, so
gorgeous that place that theyhave, it's amazing.
(41:04):
So there's a lot of people.
Chef James (41:06):
Well, it's funny, it's, you know.
That reminds me of my greatgrandmother.
She was born in 1901.
And I remember in our onefarmhouse I was a kid and I went
in there and she was in mygrandfather's recliner and she
was nodding off and I saidgrandmother, are you, are you
tired?
You seem tired.
And she was and she leanedforward and she laughed and she
(41:28):
said I'm not tired, I'm justsleepy.
I haven't worked to be tired,I'm just sleepy.
(41:57):
I haven't worked to be tired.
But that generation spendingtime with them side by side, and
then that history it's not justin that moment, but it's what
that individual carries withthem the rest of their lives,
and especially when they may nothave or as much, or even if
they do, it just opens theireyes to man.
I am, I got to work for this,Right.
Yes, you know, and it feelsgood to do that.
It's okay to be exhausted.
(42:18):
Yes, Right.
It's okay, that's true.
It's okay to get slowly up outof a chair.
Maryann (42:23):
That's right, and you've worked on it, yeah.
Chef James (42:27):
So there's a lot of power in that.
But I think you know if you cangrow something your own and
especially nowadays you knowCOVID hit and people were
getting into sourdough and thenyou know bread making and even
that's even better for you andthen going into growing your own
product at home, because theyhad the time to do it Exactly
(42:50):
and thinking about what, whatyou might want, what you will
use.
Maryann (42:53):
I think one of the one of the elements of Simon's Rock
that I sort of forget aboutbecause this is what we do
naturally is we don't reallydictate what the lesson is.
We take the students with usand then let them explore.
Chef James (43:06):
Wow, that's very organic.
Maryann (43:08):
Yes, and that's exactly what we do, and I watched our
farmer do it on the farm, so thestudents really have a say.
So this is what we need to do.
How should we do in?
I watched our farmer do it onthe farm, so the students really
have a say.
So this is what we need to do.
How should we do it, or what?
What would you?
How would you approach this?
And so there's a lot of thoughtto that and there's a lot of
valuable.
It's a valuable way of learningthat I think sticks with them.
Chef James (43:27):
Well, I would say so .
I mean because if you're givingan individual, especially a
young person, the opportunity tohave a voice and be a part of
the conversation, instead ofkind of being led or I don't
want to say dictated, but likeled to that conclusion and
they're able to see an idea andput it forward without, you know
(43:48):
, restriction or judgment rightright that may not work and then
there's a value in that too.
Maryann (43:54):
That's the resilient part.
It didn't work, that's okay.
The world didn't end, we'll tryit.
Chef James (43:59):
We'll try it another way, well because then you, you
learned that not everythingneeds to be perfect.
You know, and that's like I wastalking to people, it's you
know, or some of our farmers orchefs.
It's like our food system is soset up.
It's like that apples, thatapple.
You know that potato is not a90 count.
Get it out of here.
Maryann (44:20):
Right.
Chef James (44:20):
Nor these blemishes or these things that you know,
they, they, they won't make itto the market.
You know they won't make it tothe big grocery store chains
because it's not absolutelyperfect.
Maryann (44:32):
Right.
Chef James (44:32):
But yet you know, why can't a family you know go
in and get that at a discount orwhatever it is, at the farm
store?
You know, it's just these bigfarms just kind of have
standardized perfection to thepoint where yeah, and that's the
market that's dictating.
Maryann (44:49):
You know, they haven't chosen to, they're in the system
.
Chef James (44:52):
Right.
Maryann (44:52):
Yeah, that's the other value of small is that you can
sort of understand.
Somebody can teach you that,yeah, blemish is not poisonous,
it's perfectly fine, um rightthe greens are a little a little
holy, that's okay.
Chef James (45:06):
Yeah, right, well, I think that's.
You know, whether it's being ayoung person or even you know,
thinking about that, when yousaid that as a chef, you know.
Again it's.
I keep saying said that as achef, you know, again it's.
I keep saying it's storytelleror advocate for my producers of
this community, but, like youknow, I let people know it's.
You're not.
It's great to have that fiveounce chicken breast, but you're
(45:31):
, it's not always going to beperfect, right.
And so you find different waysto be creative, develop plates
and and whatever, and I thinkpeople appreciate that, that
clarity, that that honesty oflike yes, honesty is a great
word.
Maryann (45:41):
Yes, yeah, honestly, genuine.
All of those I think are reallyvaluable and I think it lets
people take ownership of whatthey're doing because they're
not so afraid of of criticism.
Right, we're all in it togetherand we're just, we're trying to
make something beautiful and itmay not be perfect, but yeah
you invite people in.
I think that's what, that's thevalue yeah, that's, that's it
(46:03):
for sure.
Yeah, keeps the communicationgoing yes, right so we can all
learn something from each otheryeah, that's.
Chef James (46:11):
I think that's a key to life, to be honest.
So when you're looking at Think, like Think Food Conference, do
you want to talk a little bitabout those classes and the
structure of that?
Maryann (46:25):
Yes, so it's a day-long conference in November November
16th this year and we thisyear's theme is food and health,
so we're thinking about wherefood overlaps with health.
It could be directly, it couldbe that the food you eat.
We can talk about local foodbeing part of that.
I want to talk about the healthof communities, so it could be
(46:48):
that the local community isserved by our agricultural
bounty, but it's also creatingcommunities.
So LGBTQ spaces for food, whichwe do have in the Berkshires
and beyond, and healthy bodies,healthy production and healthy
planet.
So those are all themes thatwe'll explore and it depends on
what our slate will beeventually.
But we'll have workshops orpanels or discussions and it's
(47:12):
meant to be sort of open-endedtoo, where you can ask questions
and learn from experts.
So it's all about bringing inthe experts to talk about what
they do and what other reallygreat innovations in food that
we should know about in theBerkshires and beyond.
And yeah, so it's a day-longSaturday conference and it's on
(47:33):
campus, so people can explorethe campus too.
We do try to have, we do try tohave a hands-on or a
demonstration of some kind too,so I'm not sure what that will
be yet, but we'll think of oneoh, that's okay, that sounds
exciting.
Chef James (47:44):
Yeah, so last year we had a.
Maryann (47:46):
We had a um a tree pruning, orchard pruning some
sort of demonstration, uh, andthat interesting.
And so one year we had jammaking so I had somebody come in
and make I think it wasstrawberry jam, and you could
learn how to do it, so something.
So we do try to combine thehands-on with the intellectual,
with the discussion part of it.
Chef James (48:07):
Oh, that's great.
Well, you know, I think too,you get people really drawn in,
it pulls them, you know, and itlocks into their mind even more.
Maryann (48:15):
Right, you take a Saturday and you sort of think
big picture or just learnsomething new about the area you
live in and you didn't quiteknow about, and then we always
have a great brunch at thedining hall with lots of local
foods and that's another way forpeople to say, oh, I've heard
of this farm, I didn't know, youknow.
So it's more exposure for ourfriends in the community.
Chef James (48:35):
How many people usually attend that uh around 60
to 80 60.
Maryann (48:39):
Wow, that's a good turnout, that's great yeah, it's
a good day and it's great tosee people again.
It's all about exposure.
I want people to know aboutthese great people in the
community, just like you yeah,oh nice, that's awesome.
Chef James (48:50):
So, in the sense of support, is there anything that
you know that you all need there, that the community you know
you'd like to put forward?
Maryann (48:59):
Oh well, we'd love to have more community partners.
So if there's, if there arepeople out there who have an
idea that we could help work onat the Center for Food and
Resilience, we do hope toproduce some, to create some
workshops at the center tocreate some workshops at the
center, okay, and that could belots of things.
So we're willing to talk topeople.
We do want to reach out tocommunity partners and have more
(49:20):
collaborations.
And then, as far as food goes,sign up.
Come on over, sign up for theconference and come attend.
We'd love to have you.
Chef James (49:29):
Okay, I'd love to go , and it sounds like I.
Well, you have my number, sonow I will.
Maryann (49:34):
I'd love to go and it sounds like I sounds like well,
you have my number, so now I'llmake sure you have the
invitation.
Chef James (49:36):
Yeah, I mean, I think it'd be great and I think
it's important too.
If there's anything that comesup, I'd be happy to be a part of
.
Maryann (49:42):
Great Excellent.
Chef James (49:43):
Oh, absolutely so.
Yeah, no, that's wonderful.
Maryann (49:56):
Website.
Is there any any specificwebsites they can go to?
Yes, so simons-rockedu is ourschool website and you can find
the.
Chef James (50:00):
Center for.
Maryann (50:00):
Food and Resilience page on there and the Think Food
page on that, simons-rockedu.
Chef James (50:03):
Very cool, all right .
Well, Maryann, you know, thankyou so much for your time and
all the work that you do, thateveryone does there.
It's really inspiring to hearmore about the programming and
really you've got a lot going on.
It's pretty amazing work.
Maryann (50:24):
So thank you for doing that and thanks for the chance
to talk about it.
It was really great to exploreit with you.
It's really wonderful thatyou're doing this work too.
Chef James (50:32):
Maybe we can, you know, do another podcast.
I can get over there, or orwhat have you but um?
Maryann (50:38):
fantastic.
Chef James (50:39):
We'll host you.
Okay, wow, there we go.
Well, thank you very much, anduh, and take care.
Thank you, thanks for having me.
Yeah, all right, everyone, thatis a wrap.
You can check us out If youlike that.
Subscribe Also the InstagramChef Massey.
Let's keep it simple,chefmasseycom.
(51:00):
Have a good one.
Bye for now.
I'm your host, Chef Massey.
Okay, so today on the podcast,I'm really excited We've got
Maryann here from Bard Collegeat Simon's Rock.
How's it going?
How are you?
Maryann (00:26):
I'm great.
It's very nice to be in summermode these days.
So beautiful weather yes.
Chef James (00:32):
Oh, yeah, yeah, the gardens are going and you know
the farms are rolling.
Maryann (00:36):
So yeah, yes, we just got started.
We had our first event June 1st.
We had alumni reunion on thecampus and for the second year
in a row, we've hosted an eventwhere we harvest salad from the
farm garden.
We make a salad on the farm andeverybody helps and then we
serve it to the people who havecome to the reunion.
(00:57):
So that was really fun.
Chef James (01:01):
Oh, that's so great.
Wow, how many people attendthat.
Maryann (01:05):
We had about 50 people, so we're we're a very small
school.
Chef James (01:09):
Yeah, but still that's a lot of lettuce.
You know a lot of it was prettygood.
Maryann (01:14):
Our arugula is going pretty well.
We had some micro greens.
I got to give credit to myfarmer, dan Wood, who does all
of that, but it was really funbecause you get people from some
of the alums, from all thedifferent years, and they bring
their families and we bring themout into the field and we're
about just over an acre, so it'snot a huge place, and we say
here's how you do it, and nowyou do it, and then they'll
(01:35):
harvest the arugula.
We were just clippingmicrogreens with scissors Wow,
yeah, we have a sugar shack oncampus too, so we had our own
maple syrup that we added to thedressing.
So that was very local.
Chef James (01:47):
That's so great.
Well, and that's I guess goinginto it there's.
You do wear a few hats there.
I mean, do you want to?
Do you want to go into how, howthat is for you?
I mean?
Maryann (01:59):
Yes, and it's pretty recent in some ways.
So I I am a professor of French, so that's my background French
literature.
Chef James (02:07):
And.
Maryann (02:07):
I still teach courses in French language and French
literature, and then my researchbackground is in food.
So I study and research Frenchfood history and some Italian
food as well, and so I'vestarted to teach those classes.
I have a course on French food,a course on fermented food,
which is really fun.
I have an intro to food studiescourse where we talk about food
(02:29):
access and justice and heritage.
We talk about what local foodis here and where local food
belongs, what's authentic, whichis a really difficult question.
And then I have a cheese coursewhere we learn about cheese,
talk about the history of it,and in each of those courses
there's a discussion section andthen there's a making session.
(02:51):
So one week we talk and we readand discuss and they write
papers, and the other day of theweek we make things.
So we make cheese in that classVery simple, fresh cheese.
And then the other part of itfor a couple of those is is
visits to all of the beautifulplaces around here.
So we went to highland farm tolearn about cheese we had them
(03:11):
come to us and do a cheesetasting, because we obviously
can't do aged cheeses in thesure kind of a semester, so we
can do halloumi and, uh, verybasic farmer's cheese.
They bring their beautiful agedcheeses to us and the students
get to learn and ask all kindsof questions.
That's one of my philosophiesis I'm not an expert on
everything, so I bring in theexperts and we have so many in
(03:32):
this area and they're verygenerous and come talk to the
students and that occasionallyleads to internships or even a
path to a career, sometimesExciting to see a path to a
career, sometimes, okay,exciting to see.
Chef James (03:47):
Wow, that's, it's great.
I mean we, we really arewrapped with a lot of producers.
You know, in many aspects Ithink we're what?
Over four, is it 475 or 450just in the Berkshire region of
like farms and producers of.
You know it's unbelievable.
And and it's it's interesting,you say that too because I know,
like Topher up at Cricket CreekFarm, you know they back in the
(04:08):
day did cheese classes.
So you know, making theMaggie's round.
You know I can say from being achef that you know if a cook or
even a server and anybody thatwere to go up and do these
classes, you know, and you being, you know, such a valuable
educator and taking someone in,it's like walking the fields or
(04:29):
picking, you know you get such ahigh level of appreciation for
the craft for foraging.
Oh, it's, it's unbelievable.
Maryann (04:40):
And what it takes to produce food and what it?
Should cost what it does cost,and it does give them exposure,
students exposure to what theymight like to do.
But if nothing else, you gointo the dining hall the next
day and you think, oh right,this isn't so easy.
This is, this takes a lot oflabor and we're not as
appreciative as we should be andmaybe they think more about
where their food comes from andand what they eat and how they
eat.
Chef James (05:00):
Yeah, Well, that's funny.
It's funny because you look atlike some of the kids they go to
the grocery store and that juststops there.
Maryann (05:08):
Right, that's as far as it goes.
So the other part of my job isrunning the Center for Food and
Resilience, which includes thefarm, includes our sugar, our
maple syrup operation.
It includes the apiary with ourhoney production Amazing, I
don't, yeah.
So I'm supervising all of thoseplaces, but I don't necessarily
do the work.
We have a great faculty memberin environmental studies who
(05:30):
runs the apiary.
We have somebody else who ismanaging the sugar shack, and
students are involved in all ofthat work.
So, we produce Simon's Rockhoney.
The students have a class wherethey learn to manage the hives
and they learn about the historyof it and they have debates
about it.
And then learn to manage thehives and they learn about the
history of it, and and they havedebates about it.
(05:51):
And then they process the honey.
Same thing, yeah, and the maplesyrup class.
They do a history of maplesyrup production in the region,
okay, which is really good forthem to know, and I'm certain
that a lot of them have neverthought about where maple syrup
comes from yeah, or how long ittakes to get that one quarter,
one cup or whatever here it isyes, yeah, yeah yeah it can be,
depending on the student.
Can be chemistry or physics.
So we have a reverse osmosissystem that we just installed
(06:12):
this year.
Oh, very nice so that makes itmore efficient.
But then you talk to thestudents about what that is and
how it works and sure and thenthe last uh piece that I manage
is our conference, our annualconference called think food yep
it.
That's in November, november16th, this year.
Chef James (06:27):
Okay.
Maryann (06:28):
And that's yeah.
So it's a different theme everyyear and I invite again the
experts from all over because wehave so many of them and we do
workshops and there are panelsand it's a way for people who
want to know more about the foodsystem to learn more about it.
And really what I want to do isshare, kind of what you do with
this podcast, share theexciting work that people are
doing around here.
That may not get enough press,it may not get enough pleasure.
(06:55):
Wow, yeah, it's for students,but it's also for we have a
really active community of food,interested people in the
Berkshires and they do come out.
Chef James (07:01):
That's great, Okay, and do you find I mean you cover
so many aspects of it what doyou find that the students take
away from the most?
Maryann (07:12):
I mean, that's kind of a broad question, but I really
think the most popular part ofthe courses I teach is that
hands-on part.
Part of it is it's fun andthere really is something you
know there's very well.
There's something about makingfood with people.
It's a whole differentatmosphere.
It's a very different way ofinteracting with somebody else
when you've made food andcollaborated together.
(07:33):
It's also really good lifeskills.
Some of them have not reallyheld a knife or never thought
about how to cook an egg.
Some of that is true, but Ithink also it's that they sort
of have to be brave and maybeI'm asking them to flip a crepe,
and they've never done thatbefore and they're standing in
front of their friends, sothere's a little bit of trying
something new.
I think that's valuable.
(07:54):
But in the other, there's aclass that I teach that's called
Sustainable Local Food.
Wow, it's an internationalcourse, which is to say that we
have Simon's Rock students hereand then we connect online with
students from other places,including Taiwan and Austria and
anyway, lots of other places.
So we do farm visits here andthe Berkshires is a completely
(08:15):
different place in terms oflocal agriculture from the
Midwest, but definitely fromthose other places I'm
mentioning and so we take themon farm visits and that you see
the eyes opening and the realunderstanding taking place.
They get the sense, as you'resaying, of how hard it is to be,
what kind of work is involvedin being a farmer and what
different elements you have tomanage.
It's the economics of it.
(08:36):
It's the business part of it.
It's thinking about where yourworkers are going to live,
because housing is reallydifficult.
Oh, yes, yeah, and then you getand then the food part of it.
So what we've even had farmerstalk to us about, I, like the
farmer, wants to sell kohlrabibecause they just love kohlrabi.
Well, is that going to work inCSA, or you're?
Chef James (08:54):
telling you.
Maryann (08:55):
I don't know what to do with the kohlrabi.
Chef James (08:56):
Yeah.
Maryann (08:58):
And the food access part.
The same way, our farm producesfood in the summer, when our
season is the highest, but ourstudents don't.
We don't have a summer session,so a lot of our produce we
donate to food pantries.
Chef James (09:11):
Oh, okay, yes.
Maryann (09:12):
So, which is great and wonderful and great for students
to do that work, but you alsothink about what do people going
to food pantries want to eatand what can they, what do they
have time to process?
So we need to, so that all isreally valuable experience for
the students and to think aboutright.
Chef James (09:27):
Do you go into food like preparation storage, like
canning?
I mean off-season storage.
Maryann (09:34):
We would like to get there in the fermented foods
class we do right on that but wehaven't quite done value-added
yet here, except except for thehoney and the maple syrup.
But we, for example, grow a lotof herbs and we just made a tea
blend that we're going to try.
We're going to give out samplesat our farm stand and see how
people like it, and then maybewe'll think about that.
Chef James (09:54):
OK.
Maryann (09:55):
Not yet, but that's something else that is of
interest.
Chef James (09:58):
So do you have any like, do you have any animals in
the field?
Maryann (10:01):
I mean, do you see that working in, or we did have
chickens this year, but becausethe students they think they
don't understand that it's a24-7 job so and in the winter we
don't have a frost free faucetnearby, so it was difficult to
get to maintain the chickens.
So we ended up making thedecision to give them to another
(10:25):
farm where they had more roomand more care and the students
were.
We had a long discussion aboutit.
They really liked the eggs.
The eggs were fantastic, thefreshest, and that was another
way we could respond to foodaccess.
So some of the students do haveneeds.
They don't.
They're on the dining hall mealplan maybe, but they don't have
maybe enough money to buy food.
So it was a great source ofprotein for students.
Chef James (10:47):
Oh, that's great yeah.
Maryann (10:47):
Loved it, but it takes a lot of work and a lot of
management and we just couldn't.
We're too small to really makethat go.
Chef James (10:52):
Okay.
Maryann (10:53):
So we don't currently have any animals.
A few years ago we had hostedsome pigs, sort of a shared
agreement.
A local farm was offering tohave um take the pigs for a
season and then we would sharein the bounty when the pigs were
slaughtered.
But we didn't get that farbecause the students really
liked letting the pigs go.
Letting the pigs one of theirpens.
(11:15):
Yeah, and then you get a callthat somebody had to get the pig
out of the pond and it right,we ended that experiment, yeah
yeah, oh my gosh, yeah, thatprobably would have been a lot
of fun.
Chef James (11:27):
At least it wasn't goats, you know, then they
really yes, I don't think I wantto.
Maryann (11:32):
We had sheep too, but the sheep farmer was an alum and
would come regularly andmaintain the sheep.
Chef James (11:38):
So, yeah, those are.
Those are kind of fun too,though.
On our farm, northernCalifornia, my cousins were in
FFA and that was, you know,being a part of that and that
process growing up around allthat it's, you know, I think,
the farm environment.
I wish every kid could havethat experience because it's
(12:00):
really rich.
I wouldn't have picked thecareer path that I did today had
I not had amazing people thatshowed me, you know, because we
had our 400 acre farm inNorthern California.
I know we shared a little bitabout you know that and some
things that went on that led meinto the path of looking at our
(12:20):
food system too over the manyyears.
But you know, being able to geton that land with a family
member and just work the land.
You know whether it's liftingmainline or doing anything or
going out and picking something.
You know like the kids go outand grab something and you're
like now we're going to make,you know, a soup out of this.
Or the kohlrabi, let's make akohlrabi tart, or right, you
(12:43):
know let's ferment this and sure, and the lacto, you know the
lacto fermentation, thelactobacillus, that happens, um,
you know.
Or making that cheese and youknow cutting the curd and
separating the whey, and there'sa lot of work involved, you
know, um, that's thinking aboutthe start, you know I and
thinking about the start.
Maryann (13:03):
You know I was thinking about the less fun jobs on the
farm weeding, composting butthen you understand how
necessary that is and that fooddoesn't happen unless we do
those jobs too Right.
And I think the students reallyI'm surprised by some of them
in my classes who really take tothat and I wouldn't necessarily
choose them, but there'ssomething really meditative
about it or there can be Sure.
(13:23):
And just get outside, choosethem, but there's something
really meditative about, orthere can be sure and just get
outside and we have a beautifulspace here in the berkshire, so
the birds come along.
You see the sky change you yeahyou're outside in the, in the
winds blowing, you know, it'sjust a lovely place, and so I
think to get them to experiencethat is really valuable to,
along with the hard work surey'all need to do sometimes.
Just right, yeah work.
Chef James (13:43):
It's so great.
When you see them light up it'slike, oh, there they go, they
see it.
But I mean speaking of all theprogramming that you do do, and
you mentioned small.
I mean really, what size are welooking at?
Maryann (13:55):
So we have about 300 students on campus.
Chef James (13:58):
Okay.
Maryann (13:58):
And that's.
We have two programs.
We have a college programthat's a four-year program, and
we have an academy which is aninth and tenth grade, which is
much smaller.
But, um, and so all of thosestudents are here.
Not all of them live on campus.
Some of them are day students,um, some of them study abroad.
so we were talking about italyas we as we came into the
conversation.
So we have a study abroadprogram in italy for students in
(14:22):
food studies, which which isone of our majors we call them
concentrations, but it's a majorso there are students abroad at
different times of the year.
So it's small and you do get toknow everybody, but that also
means that you know them welland they know you well and
there's lots of hands-onattention and it's really good
(14:43):
to it's.
It's a good group.
It's about 10 or 15 students ina class, so that's a nice
manageable you really can.
If I'm teaching a food class,that's about all I want.
Um.
Chef James (14:54):
I don't want more.
Maryann (14:56):
So, and in the field too, we can we teach.
I teach a 10th grade academyclass called organic farming and
soil science.
Chef James (15:04):
Okay.
Maryann (15:06):
Yeah, a 10th grade academy class called organic
farming and soil science.
Okay, yeah, and we essentiallygive them in teams, we give them
beds and they grow seeds thatwe've chosen and then they do
experiments on might becompanion planting, might be
soil testing.
Um, and that's a good age tostart yeah because they may not
have done much of it, yeah andum, and then they we say we
start from.
You know an undone bed, so youhave to take the weeds out and
(15:28):
oh, wow use the fork to till itand then put some compost on and
then you plant the seeds andthen you watch and you compare
your bed to others next to youand yeah, it's really
fascinating.
And in the end we harvest andtake it to the dining hall.
So we parade across campus andpresented, so we take them into
the back door of the dining hall.
They may not have known.
That's how they may not havebeen through.
(15:49):
And and then they really do takea pride.
Take some pride in that foodthat they've grown right then
they're eating in their meals,or I hope they tell your the
friends about it too oh yeah, Imean I'm sure they do you know.
Chef James (16:04):
Now, in the acreage though, I mean, what's the total
acreage you're looking at?
Because it's so.
Maryann (16:10):
The campus is about 300 acres.
Chef James (16:11):
Okay, there we go.
It's a very big space.
Maryann (16:19):
Yeah, that's great campus and the upper campus is
more upper level studentsbecause it's a bit of a hike.
Okay, the campus is more of allthe classrooms and the library
and the farm administrativebuildings, but the sugar shack,
for example, is on upper campus,so that's far away.
So we do have quite a lot ofland, but we don't necessarily
use it all directly.
Chef James (16:40):
Yeah, Do you do any mushroom foraging at all?
I mean, I'm sure you know.
Maryann (16:44):
It's funny, it kind of comes in phases.
So we had, at one of the ThinkFood conferences a couple of
years ago, we did have a foragercome and sort of take you on a
walk and show you what's safe.
And then every couple of yearsI'll have a group of students
that's very interested andthey'll go into the woods and
find, you know, we found morels.
Yep, we found some pretty good.
Oh wow and some other good onesand we have a botanist who will
(17:07):
verify your find.
So we tell you know, we tellstudents unless you really know
what you're doing, don't eat itunless you've asked.
Chef James (17:13):
Right.
Maryann (17:14):
And so I think they share that knowledge with each
other, and so we don't have acourse on it, necessarily, but
we do have students who areinterested.
Chef James (17:21):
Wow, that's so great .
And then looking at, forexample, like your maple
production, I mean how manytrees do you have?
I mean, do you have a?
Maryann (17:28):
want to get to to sort of up the production.
So we're talking about reallyworking on that sugar bush and
making it neater and taking outsome of the dead trees and yeah
(17:52):
and increasing our production,again with the help of students,
because we want this right, no,that's great.
Chef James (17:59):
And then is there, for example I mean, do you have
like fruit trees, trees, isthere an orchard?
Maryann (18:05):
We do have an orchard.
That was here when the campuswas originally a farm.
Chef James (18:11):
Yeah.
Maryann (18:12):
The person who started the school took her family's
farm and turned it into Simon'sRock, and so we do have some
older apple trees.
Chef James (18:21):
Okay.
Maryann (18:22):
Yeah, and we don't take great care of them because they
sort of ended up being lesserin importance.
But they do produce fruit.
So in October we collect theapples that we have and we have
a for family weekend.
We have a cider press, food andresilience does a cider press
and we press fresh.
It's not really cider, I guess,if it's fresh apple juice and
(18:43):
and we also do an apple tasting,oh cool.
So the fruit trees on campusthat we can identify will have
tastings.
And there again.
That's education.
We'll bring in other localapples from other places.
Taft Farms is a good one.
We have labels and then we letpeople vote for their favorite
and they debate yeah.
Chef James (19:02):
Oh, that's so cool.
Yeah, i'll's parents come fromcalifornia and say I've never
tasted that, I've never evenheard of this kind of apple and
oh yeah, that's fun it'sunbelievable, the varieties I
mean I worked a lot with likehilltop orchard back in the day,
but I love using their productall the time.
Yes, of course there's bartletttoo, so yes, yes um, they're
both great orchards, but that'sso cool.
(19:24):
Have you done any apple butterwith it or anything like that?
Maryann (19:28):
No, we really don't.
I mean, it depends on the year.
We don't get too too manyapples and we do have pear trees
as well.
Chef James (19:34):
Oh nice.
Maryann (19:35):
Yeah, so we need to see if those are producing again.
So we don't really have enoughto make the product, so we just
use it for that one event.
And then I do have studentsagain.
They find out that we have anapple press, cider press, and
they asked to borrow it.
So I had a student and hemust've gone somewhere else to
get the apples.
And then he a couple of timesasked to press the, so sure.
Chef James (19:53):
Okay.
Maryann (19:54):
That's the advantage of having a small place is that
they can contact me and say I'dlike to use this piece of
equipment, and usually I can sayyes, please go ahead, just kind
of check it out, okay, yeahclean it up when you're done,
and then we'll Wow.
Chef James (20:07):
So in regards to I know you were saying you deal
with food pantries and I talkedyou know I was talking to
Berkshire Grown.
I've had them on a couple timesin a few different ways, but
that Berkshire Mobile FarmersMarket yes.
Maryann (20:22):
That's pretty awesome.
It's pretty amazing whatthey're doing.
Yeah, and I happen to knowabout them because I have worked
in different ways at BerkshireGrown but we have electric
charging spots on campus.
This is again the way a collegecan serve a community in a
strange way that you may notimagine.
And they needed a place tocharge that van and we said, yes
, of course we should bring ithere and charge it, but they,
(20:42):
yes, they have a mobile marketthat they go up to North County
and distribute fresh produce and, yeah, it's a whole system.
Chef James (20:49):
And.
Maryann (20:50):
Birch Bounty is another really great organization in
the local area Outstanding.
Chef James (20:54):
Yeah, unbelievable work.
Yeah, you know, with the foodinsecurity.
So I guess, kind of going intothat, you know I know we kind of
talked about, like with DrNessel, mary Nessel, about, you
know, food politics and our foodsystem.
You know I think it's reallypowerful the work you know that
you're doing there.
You know the center in theprograms that are provided there
(21:16):
in kind of combating or forginga new thought process.
I think you know in our countryI think that we've come a long
way, especially within the last,you know, 10 or 15 years.
But just seeing this like await moment, I don't know if I
would say an aha moment, but,like you know, wait a second
(21:39):
yeah.
And you know, I think it'ssomething to as being in the
Berkshires all of our producersand people.
They're very cognizant anddedicated to understanding what
they're putting on their plateand how they can affect their
own economy on their plate andhow they can affect their own
economy.
And I think it's great theprogram that you do there.
(22:00):
What do you find, like you know, as you work through it,
building that and keep addingeach year?
How do you work through thatprocess of developing all these
programs that you offer?
Maryann (22:12):
Well, it's great because I always say that if you
have an idea, come to me andwe'll figure out how to do it.
So it's really great to be in adynamic place like the
Berkshires, where there are lotsof ideas and people may just
need a little space to meet, orthey might need a couple of
students to be interns, orsomething, oh, okay.
Yeah.
So we really provide, I think,a value there.
(22:33):
But we partner with a lot ofpeople.
That's how we do all the thingsthat do um.
So extra special teas isanother.
Oh, they're great, aren't they?
So we contacted them early onwhen the center for food and
resilience started, and sherryuh wondered if we could
collaborate.
And so those uh folks come tosimon's rock, to the farm, and
(22:54):
they are growing some herbs andplants for their tea blends, and
it's both that they needed somespace to grow because they
didn't have land, and we havesome space and a good
interaction.
So learn a few techniques.
Might be learning about farminga little bit, just to get
outside and work in a group, andthen our students at the same
(23:15):
time can can learn how to uh,how to teach, maybe a little bit
or okay with other people, soit's a really it's been a really
great collaboration and ourstudents have worked at the
extra specialties uh shop onceor twice um.
So that's a very nicecollaboration and again we have
the space.
They they're very happy towelcome them and they it's.
(23:36):
It's really fun for all of us.
And there's lots of othercollaborations like that that
happen.
So I work.
I'm on the board of BerkshireAgricultural Ventures, which is
another nonprofit supportingfarmers in the area, and they
we've had intern students whowork there as interns.
They are a sponsor of Think.
Food Berkshire is also asponsor of think food.
(23:58):
Okay, also a sponsor of thinkfood, and so when they have a
speaker that I might want toknow about, they let me know, or
if they have an amazing farmthat they were supporting.
Chef James (24:07):
Sure.
Maryann (24:08):
It's.
It's a good sort of back andforth that we have in the
community.
That's really helpful to me andyou know we Simon's Rock is not
a formal place, so we really doa lot of community work you
know we can accommodate it.
There's not a lot ofbureaucracy, there's not too
many impediments to reaching outand making a collaboration.
(24:30):
So that's a lot of what I'vedone.
Chef James (24:32):
So you really get an opportunity to have some level
of great freedom really.
Maryann (24:37):
Yes, yes, that is a great advantage of Simon's Rock
is that they want to encourageus.
Again, we're small.
We want the students to haveexperiences, however, we can
make them happen.
So, yes, if we can reach out tosomebody in the community, we
should do that.
And it's a small town, so Ithink Simon's Rock is not as
(24:58):
well known as maybe it should be.
So that's it's good for us toinvite people onto campus, and
but I always think we have space, we have facilities.
I'd like to share them.
Chef James (25:06):
And.
Maryann (25:07):
I'm empowered to do that.
Chef James (25:08):
OK, no, that's, that's just.
That's great Looking at.
I guess you know moving forward.
I mean you cover so many otherprograms.
You cover a lot.
Are there programs that in thefuture you'd love to see develop
into more?
Maryann (25:25):
We're always thinking about new, what we can do next.
I think our focus right now isdeveloping Sugar Shack, maybe
doing more of that, and so wehad an idea of having a Maple
Day, and again it's alleducation oriented.
So could we invite people tolearn how to do it or to maybe
update what they have or learnfrom other people who do it in a
bigger way than we do.
So that's one we have an ideawith our summer.
(25:51):
So I have some summer studentsworking on the farm and we'd
like to sort of rotate and sharework crews with other farms in
the area.
So Greenagers is anorganization that does really
great work like this.
They have work crews and Idon't know if they're doing it
right now, but they used tooffer to rotate around and sort
of give shared labor to otherfarms.
You might just need a day ofpicking or a day of weeding.
(26:13):
So I'd like to offer that moreto our students, but also to the
other farms who might need alittle.
So I'd like to offer that moreto our students, but also to the
other farms who might need alittle support, a little
assistance.
And I'd like to grow ThinkFoodto a bigger event.
It's a great event and I justwould like more people to know
about it and serve more peoplethat way, yeah.
(26:38):
And then I think you know thedining hall.
We again, our seasons are alittle off, so we produce the
most food in in the summer, butour dining hall is not working
at full capacity in the summerbecause we don't have summer
classes I can't use quite a bitfor other groups.
But I'd like to sort of if wecould move toward a greenhouse
or a high tunnel, we could domore extended season crops and
really oh, okay, yeah, yeah, andyou don't have okay, okay yeah,
so, yeah.
So that's, those are some, someideas.
Chef James (27:00):
Okay, nice.
Well, so looking at you as suchan important educator and these
programs that are going on,what?
What are your drivers?
I mean what you know, whatpropels you into developing all
this and what's at the heartthat drives you?
Maryann (27:22):
Well, I've been fascinated by food for as long
as I can remember, so I really Icall myself an omnivore.
I'm sort of an omnivore in theresearch part too.
I'm really interested in all ofit, and I did not come from a
farming background.
It's really sort of amusing tosome of my colleagues to see
what the work that I'm doing now.
So I'm just interested in allof it and I really am empowered.
(27:45):
I'm really charged up by seeingwhat wonderful work farmers do
and food people and then themost generous people I know.
So I think I'm reallyencouraged by what the work they
do and I just want to know more.
And again, since I have thefreedom at Simon's Rock to sort
of develop my own programs,that's also a real energy
benefit.
But in my work with studentsteaching they really bring the
(28:11):
enthusiasm.
That's what makes me want to doit.
So I really want to meet theneeds of students or the desire
of students as much as I can.
So I really want to meet theneeds of students or the desire
of students as much as I can andwe can.
In a small place like this, Ican develop a new course that
might feed the need of somebodywho just thought of I'd really
like to know more about thistopic, and we do it together and
we can do that.
So I mean the energy they bringto the courses that I teach
(28:32):
where there's a cooking sectionor a hands-on section is really
enthusiastic and reallyempowering for me.
So that's what I'm doing, andthen I really I get to spend my
career pursuing something thatI'm genuinely interested in.
So I'm about to head off to aconference in Italy, which is
(28:54):
exactly the site of our studyabroad food studies program, but
I'm going there to present apaper about French food, and
I've written a couple of bookson French food and published
some articles.
So I get to go to Italy and eatfantastic food and be immersed
in it while I'm doing my work,while I'm actually doing
professional work.
So that's really amazing to me.
(29:15):
I can't believe I got that.
Chef James (29:16):
I think that's so great.
Maryann (29:20):
Yeah, it's not when I went to graduate students
graduate school, for I went tograduate school for French
literature and I still I'mpassionate about French
literature and still teach itsomewhat, but this is this has
become my new, my new passion.
Chef James (29:34):
Right, well, that's, that's so great.
It's funny Cause I know we weretalking.
I just got back from Italymyself, you know, and it's.
It's such a beautiful country,the culture, the art, it's kind
of mind-blowing.
And again going into it as achef, oh, yes you know, yeah,
looking at what they produce andyou know I had their produce I
(29:56):
mean I had what I would calllike a.
It would be like a Saturn peach.
It was kind of like more of aflat peach disc shape.
And I found a small.
Where we were staying was asmall village and I went to the
market there, a very smallmarket, with one of the ladies
who you know probably has ran itfor many, many years, and I
(30:17):
went in there.
I was just mind blown at all ofthe selections she actually had
in there.
It was like a very small space.
It might have been 150 squarefeet or something, but like not
and so, going through theproduce and then even that peach
that I got one day that was alittle under ripe, I was like
(30:38):
I'm just going to go ahead andeat this, you know, and I did,
and I was still blown away byall of the flavor that was in
that peach.
And then, you know, I went backa couple of days later and you
know, obviously they were ripeand got some more but, um, you
know, they're ripening the bloodoranges.
I couldn't believe the?
(30:58):
I mean, there there's themembrane.
It was so thin because thosecitrus pearls were so full of
juice that, like it was almostjust you cut it open.
You're like, wow, you know, orsome of the melons, you know, I
can't.
You know, I think I'm veryanalytical about it.
I'm going, okay, I'm gratefulfor, you know, my country and
(31:21):
our producers, from our entirecountry.
But like, looking at how we'vebeen so assertive in pushing our
ag system Right, and you know,and talking to Dr Nessel about
that, we literally producedouble the amount of calories in
(31:42):
product that we need for a manor a woman to sustain themselves
daily, you know, it's kind ofmind blowing, you know.
So it's like geez, we're insuch a hurry to feed and, yes,
we're a massive country and alot of mouths to feed but I'm
like, wow, if we could.
Just, you know, it's like usingour local farms.
(32:03):
Here they have that presence ofbeing able to.
I don't want to say slow farm,because that's like slow food,
right, Like you know, slowfarming is like letting
something take that time itneeds to develop the flavor, to
develop the sugars you knowwhether it's a piece of fruit or
(32:25):
an animal Right you know.
Maryann (32:28):
And harvesting at exactly the right time You're
talking about the ripeness ofthe peach right.
So maybe it's not the week topick, whatever it is but when
you get it from the farmer'smarket, it will be, it will be.
Chef James (32:38):
It's excellent, you know or you go to taft and they
have their, the strawberriesthat they bring in um, or, you
know, indian line farm, or someof these, or the berry patch I
mean, yes, they're all, they'reall outstanding, you know and to
be able to be spoiled in theBerkshires and the chef.
You know I share with chefsacross the country that New
(33:01):
England and the Berkshires it.
It's like, you know, I'm givenall of these colors by such
gifted people that as a chef,it's like all right, man, now
you've got to do it, I've got tobe right by everybody.
Maryann (33:24):
And I think there's a public for it too that you're.
You're eating people who reallywant that and recognize that
great quality, and I hope theywant to pay what you deserve to
be paid for.
It too is the other side.
Chef James (33:37):
but yeah, you do.
You hope for it.
I mean it's you know I'm ableto do what I can with it.
But you know our farms, youknow it's it's not easy for them
and it's, it's hard for them toyou know.
Make that money off of that youknow to you know, make that
money off of that.
(33:58):
You know that potato Right andyou know, coming from a.
You know our farm, a good sizefarm in California.
I that's where, like I know, wetalked about it.
But seeing the monster, youknow behind the curtain, in a
sense of the mass production orthe push for corn and the push
for soybeans and some of theseother things, um, where you have
(34:19):
just fields everywhere, youknow, or the way the animals are
treated you know right you canuh exactly the stockyards and
the pen right, the effect on thesoil and you know, but we only
have this one earth, uh.
Maryann (34:33):
so we need to think about where that's going, and
that's consumer led too.
You know, we have some power asconsumers to say that's not the
way I want my food to be.
Chef James (34:43):
Right.
Maryann (34:43):
If you have the privilege to make those choices
and I think that's part of whatwe teach our students is that
you do have to say and you canask the dining hall, for example
, to bring in more local food,and they will listen because
you're the consumer.
Chef James (34:57):
Yeah, that's great.
Maryann (34:59):
So, and yeah, I do like that big picture lesson that we
try to teach and I think you'reright that these local farms
they make amazing, they growamazing produce and there's lots
of meat farmers around here toothat give us amazing products
and I just want them to keepgoing.
I think we do.
(35:21):
I mean, if you go to thefarmer's market, it's lively,
there's lots of people, there'slots of fans.
Chef James (35:25):
And.
Maryann (35:26):
I think it's a vibrant food location, so I'm lucky to
be here too.
That's how I feel, oh yeah.
Chef James (35:32):
It's so great and and it's, and there are under.
There are organizations in ourcommunity like bav, you know um.
I had jake levin and oh yes,ren, on you know and how they
work together and what they'redealing with and you know,
you're, you're, you'reintermixed as well and in some
of conversations it's like themore people that I meet and talk
(35:55):
about.
Maryann (35:56):
And lots of interweaving of different
organizations, which isnecessary in a small place.
Chef James (36:01):
Oh, absolutely, yeah , absolutely.
And you know, working throughthose relationships and even
some of the things that you know, like Jake had mentioned, you
know my goal is for us todevelop this thing so that these
farmers can be in their fields.
You know my goal is for us todevelop this thing so that these
farmers can be in their fields.
You know these ranchers, theycan be the producer they need to
(36:22):
be doing what they love to doand hopefully we can take, you
know, some of these otherassistance programs, or you know
logistic support programs sothat they can just keep
producing Right.
Maryann (36:37):
And that's pretty awesome.
Yes, and I think that's.
A great value of BAV and that'swhy I'm happy to be on their
board is that they can keep thefarmers farming and bring them
this information or thesetrainings or whatever it is they
might need, and then we cankeep having a healthy farm
system here.
And it goes beyond theBerkshires too Taconic and
Hudson Valley and LitchfieldCounty.
Chef James (36:57):
So yeah, it's an amazing organization.
Maryann (36:59):
It's just a really top-notch staff.
Chef James (37:02):
Yeah, I mean, and I think what's really powerful is
that it is a nucleus of verytalented people, but I think the
most important is that they'rethey're passionate, they're
committed, they're driven.
Absolutely Everything else willcome out of that because it's
going to happen.
Maryann (37:20):
Yes, that's right.
And insightful too.
I mean to recognize whatfarmers might need, or listen
when farmers say here, thisisn't working so well, what are
the solutions?
Chef James (37:32):
Right, so well, what are the solutions?
Right, well, and that's theother thing, like programs and
technology and some of theseother things that you know.
They may not have been awarethat.
Hey, if you go on the websiteyou can look this up and get you
know further information on it,and it's just so amazing to
know that that's being put inplace because it's you know,
that's not the.
(37:52):
It may be a concern, that's infront of you, but finding the
resources is not always theeasiest especially when you're
very busy doing all the otherthings required of you, right?
well, you know before you know,like I always said it was, you
know you're.
You're going before the suncomes up and you're still going
after the sun sets, especiallyharvest time too, definitely.
(38:13):
Or if you're adding animal, youknow care, you know that
extends those hours even moreRight.
Maryann (38:22):
Yes, we were talking to .
I took my students to visitFreund Farm, oh yeah.
And that's a dairy farm,they're great.
They are great and they havethese amazing robotic milkers oh
, okay we hadn't.
I had never seen before.
My students found the bestthing.
But yeah, to talk about whatthe what the day is like and
(38:42):
yeah it.
Cows do not know that it'ssunday or that it's christmas no
, no, they just move yeah theyjust eat they, they need so and
they appreciate the pressurerelease.
Chef James (38:54):
Yes, right, it's more comfortable.
Maryann (38:57):
It was fascinating to watch that organism I guess is
what you'd call it, and thethought that goes into how you
keep going Right.
The cow pots Do you know aboutthe cow pots?
Chef James (39:08):
Well, it's funny, I actually went down to Forens
because I get stuff for our yarddown there oh great, and those,
yeah, I've got the.
Actually went down to fourrings because I get stuff for
our yard down there oh great,and those, yeah, I've got their,
the moopoo and all this stuff,yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm stocked and
those are great though yeah, itwas fascinating for the
students to see okay, here'ssomething else that's
environmental but also serves aneed.
Maryann (39:28):
um, because people want these pots to plant in and then
they don't have to think abouttossing them aside.
Right, and it goes right in theearth and it's better for your
plants.
Chef James (39:37):
And it breaks right down.
Maryann (39:39):
Yeah.
So, the innovation and theentrepreneurship there.
That's right here in our areaand I love to see the students
kind of click on to that andthink well, you know there is a
place for creativity and youknow, the jobs that you might
have someday are not the onesnecessarily that you have in
your head.
Chef James (39:56):
Right, well, and that's the thing, and I think
too also especially wherefarming in our country,
especially in the Berkshires too, is.
Yeah, we've discussed and beenfocused on regenerative farming
for a long time, but then you'regetting into the no-till.
Maryann (40:12):
Yes.
Chef James (40:13):
And that's.
You know again, I, you knowit's the more conventional way
and you know you have themachinery and it's cutting down
your time and this and that andthe labor and whatever.
But then you know you'reripping it.
You know everything apartthat's been built or that's
sustaining itself there in thesoil.
But then you know, when youlook at the no-till-till you're
(40:33):
like that's a whole, notherpiece of appreciation.
Yes, get on that fork and startdancing you know that's right.
Maryann (40:42):
Yeah, one thing to watch, it's another thing to do
it yourself and oh yeah when wego on these farm visits,
sometimes says when woven rootsis a good one.
So yeah, jen and peter areamazing yeah well, she'll say
here's the fork, here you cantry it, and that makes an
impression on students when theygo.
And such a beautiful place Imean, yeah, neat as a pin, so
gorgeous that place that theyhave, it's amazing.
(41:04):
So there's a lot of people.
Chef James (41:06):
Well, it's funny, it's, you know.
That reminds me of my greatgrandmother.
She was born in 1901.
And I remember in our onefarmhouse I was a kid and I went
in there and she was in mygrandfather's recliner and she
was nodding off and I saidgrandmother, are you, are you
tired?
You seem tired.
And she was and she leanedforward and she laughed and she
(41:28):
said I'm not tired, I'm justsleepy.
I haven't worked to be tired,I'm just sleepy.
(41:57):
I haven't worked to be tired.
But that generation spendingtime with them side by side, and
then that history it's not justin that moment, but it's what
that individual carries withthem the rest of their lives,
and especially when they may nothave or as much, or even if
they do, it just opens theireyes to man.
I am, I got to work for this,Right.
Yes, you know, and it feelsgood to do that.
It's okay to be exhausted.
(42:18):
Yes, Right.
It's okay, that's true.
It's okay to get slowly up outof a chair.
Maryann (42:23):
That's right, and you've worked on it, yeah.
Chef James (42:27):
So there's a lot of power in that.
But I think you know if you cangrow something your own and
especially nowadays you knowCOVID hit and people were
getting into sourdough and thenyou know bread making and even
that's even better for you andthen going into growing your own
product at home, because theyhad the time to do it Exactly
(42:50):
and thinking about what, whatyou might want, what you will
use.
Maryann (42:53):
I think one of the one of the elements of Simon's Rock
that I sort of forget aboutbecause this is what we do
naturally is we don't reallydictate what the lesson is.
We take the students with usand then let them explore.
Chef James (43:06):
Wow, that's very organic.
Maryann (43:08):
Yes, and that's exactly what we do, and I watched our
farmer do it on the farm, so thestudents really have a say.
So this is what we need to do.
How should we do in?
I watched our farmer do it onthe farm, so the students really
have a say.
So this is what we need to do.
How should we do it, or what?
What would you?
How would you approach this?
And so there's a lot of thoughtto that and there's a lot of
valuable.
It's a valuable way of learningthat I think sticks with them.
Chef James (43:27):
Well, I would say so .
I mean because if you're givingan individual, especially a
young person, the opportunity tohave a voice and be a part of
the conversation, instead ofkind of being led or I don't
want to say dictated, but likeled to that conclusion and
they're able to see an idea andput it forward without, you know
(43:48):
, restriction or judgment rightright that may not work and then
there's a value in that too.
Maryann (43:54):
That's the resilient part.
It didn't work, that's okay.
The world didn't end, we'll tryit.
Chef James (43:59):
We'll try it another way, well because then you, you
learned that not everythingneeds to be perfect.
You know, and that's like I wastalking to people, it's you
know, or some of our farmers orchefs.
It's like our food system is soset up.
It's like that apples, thatapple.
You know that potato is not a90 count.
Get it out of here.
Maryann (44:20):
Right.
Chef James (44:20):
Nor these blemishes or these things that you know,
they, they, they won't make itto the market.
You know they won't make it tothe big grocery store chains
because it's not absolutelyperfect.
Maryann (44:32):
Right.
Chef James (44:32):
But yet you know, why can't a family you know go
in and get that at a discount orwhatever it is, at the farm
store?
You know, it's just these bigfarms just kind of have
standardized perfection to thepoint where yeah, and that's the
market that's dictating.
Maryann (44:49):
You know, they haven't chosen to, they're in the system
.
Chef James (44:52):
Right.
Maryann (44:52):
Yeah, that's the other value of small is that you can
sort of understand.
Somebody can teach you that,yeah, blemish is not poisonous,
it's perfectly fine, um rightthe greens are a little a little
holy, that's okay.
Chef James (45:06):
Yeah, right, well, I think that's.
You know, whether it's being ayoung person or even you know,
thinking about that, when yousaid that as a chef, you know.
Again it's.
I keep saying said that as achef, you know, again it's.
I keep saying it's storytelleror advocate for my producers of
this community, but, like youknow, I let people know it's.
You're not.
It's great to have that fiveounce chicken breast, but you're
(45:31):
, it's not always going to beperfect, right.
And so you find different waysto be creative, develop plates
and and whatever, and I thinkpeople appreciate that, that
clarity, that that honesty oflike yes, honesty is a great
word.
Maryann (45:41):
Yes, yeah, honestly, genuine.
All of those I think are reallyvaluable and I think it lets
people take ownership of whatthey're doing because they're
not so afraid of of criticism.
Right, we're all in it togetherand we're just, we're trying to
make something beautiful and itmay not be perfect, but yeah
you invite people in.
I think that's what, that's thevalue yeah, that's, that's it
(46:03):
for sure.
Yeah, keeps the communicationgoing yes, right so we can all
learn something from each otheryeah, that's.
Chef James (46:11):
I think that's a key to life, to be honest.
So when you're looking at Think, like Think Food Conference, do
you want to talk a little bitabout those classes and the
structure of that?
Maryann (46:25):
Yes, so it's a day-long conference in November November
16th this year and we thisyear's theme is food and health,
so we're thinking about wherefood overlaps with health.
It could be directly, it couldbe that the food you eat.
We can talk about local foodbeing part of that.
I want to talk about the healthof communities, so it could be
(46:48):
that the local community isserved by our agricultural
bounty, but it's also creatingcommunities.
So LGBTQ spaces for food, whichwe do have in the Berkshires
and beyond, and healthy bodies,healthy production and healthy
planet.
So those are all themes thatwe'll explore and it depends on
what our slate will beeventually.
But we'll have workshops orpanels or discussions and it's
(47:12):
meant to be sort of open-endedtoo, where you can ask questions
and learn from experts.
So it's all about bringing inthe experts to talk about what
they do and what other reallygreat innovations in food that
we should know about in theBerkshires and beyond.
And yeah, so it's a day-longSaturday conference and it's on
(47:33):
campus, so people can explorethe campus too.
We do try to have, we do try tohave a hands-on or a
demonstration of some kind too,so I'm not sure what that will
be yet, but we'll think of oneoh, that's okay, that sounds
exciting.
Chef James (47:44):
Yeah, so last year we had a.
Maryann (47:46):
We had a um a tree pruning, orchard pruning some
sort of demonstration, uh, andthat interesting.
And so one year we had jammaking so I had somebody come in
and make I think it wasstrawberry jam, and you could
learn how to do it, so something.
So we do try to combine thehands-on with the intellectual,
with the discussion part of it.
Chef James (48:07):
Oh, that's great.
Well, you know, I think too,you get people really drawn in,
it pulls them, you know, and itlocks into their mind even more.
Maryann (48:15):
Right, you take a Saturday and you sort of think
big picture or just learnsomething new about the area you
live in and you didn't quiteknow about, and then we always
have a great brunch at thedining hall with lots of local
foods and that's another way forpeople to say, oh, I've heard
of this farm, I didn't know, youknow.
So it's more exposure for ourfriends in the community.
Chef James (48:35):
How many people usually attend that uh around 60
to 80 60.
Maryann (48:39):
Wow, that's a good turnout, that's great yeah, it's
a good day and it's great tosee people again.
It's all about exposure.
I want people to know aboutthese great people in the
community, just like you yeah,oh nice, that's awesome.
Chef James (48:50):
So, in the sense of support, is there anything that
you know that you all need there, that the community you know
you'd like to put forward?
Maryann (48:59):
Oh well, we'd love to have more community partners.
So if there's, if there arepeople out there who have an
idea that we could help work onat the Center for Food and
Resilience, we do hope toproduce some, to create some
workshops at the center tocreate some workshops at the
center, okay, and that could belots of things.
So we're willing to talk topeople.
We do want to reach out tocommunity partners and have more
(49:20):
collaborations.
And then, as far as food goes,sign up.
Come on over, sign up for theconference and come attend.
We'd love to have you.
Chef James (49:29):
Okay, I'd love to go , and it sounds like I.
Well, you have my number, sonow I will.
Maryann (49:34):
I'd love to go and it sounds like I sounds like well,
you have my number, so now I'llmake sure you have the
invitation.
Chef James (49:36):
Yeah, I mean, I think it'd be great and I think
it's important too.
If there's anything that comesup, I'd be happy to be a part of
.
Maryann (49:42):
Great Excellent.
Chef James (49:43):
Oh, absolutely so.
Yeah, no, that's wonderful.
Maryann (49:56):
Website.
Is there any any specificwebsites they can go to?
Yes, so simons-rockedu is ourschool website and you can find
the.
Chef James (50:00):
Center for.
Maryann (50:00):
Food and Resilience page on there and the Think Food
page on that, simons-rockedu.
Chef James (50:03):
Very cool, all right .
Well, Maryann, you know, thankyou so much for your time and
all the work that you do, thateveryone does there.
It's really inspiring to hearmore about the programming and
really you've got a lot going on.
It's pretty amazing work.
Maryann (50:24):
So thank you for doing that and thanks for the chance
to talk about it.
It was really great to exploreit with you.
It's really wonderful thatyou're doing this work too.
Chef James (50:32):
Maybe we can, you know, do another podcast.
I can get over there, or orwhat have you but um?
Maryann (50:38):
fantastic.
Chef James (50:39):
We'll host you.
Okay, wow, there we go.
Well, thank you very much, anduh, and take care.
Thank you, thanks for having me.
Yeah, all right, everyone, thatis a wrap.
You can check us out If youlike that.
Subscribe Also the InstagramChef Massey.
Let's keep it simple,chefmasseycom.
(51:00):
Have a good one.
Bye for now.
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