April 10, 2024 • 25 mins
Unlock the secrets of terroir-driven whiskey as we traverse the verdant paths of Hill Rock Estate Distillers with our gracious hosts Jeffrey Baker, whose fervor for sustainable farming and meticulous spirit crafting will leave you deeply inspired. Their tales are not just of barley and rye but of a lifelong voyage culminating in a symphony of Solera-aged bourbons, double cask rye, and American single malts that speak volumes of their field-to-glass philosophy. As we share our sensory expedition through the amber hues and rich aromas of each unique pour, you’ll grasp the profound influence of the Hudson Valley's terroir and understand why Hill Rock isn't just a distillery, but a pilgrimage for the palate.
During this extraordinary visit, where exclusivity meets intimacy, we’re reminded that some treasures are reserved solely for those who seek them out firsthand. The specialty releases that never leave the estate's embrace are testament to the allure of the distillery experience, giving guests a sip of something truly special. So, join us for a tale of passion, provenance, and the pursuit of the perfect dram. With each episode, we aim to elevate your spirits and share with you the extraordinary narratives and flavors we encounter. Don't forget to follow us, as the journey into the heart of culinary and tasting adventures is just beginning.
Thank you Jeffrey!!,
https://hillrockdistillery.com/home/
Thank you to our listeners!!
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We are not responsible for any losses, damages, or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. This podcast is not intended to replace professional medical advice. The views expressed in this podcast may not be those of the host, guest or the management. All right reserved under Chef Sense Podcast and Chef Massey, LLC.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chef James (00:14):
Hey everyone, welcome to Chef Sense.
I'm your host, chef MasseyAlright, so we went on a field
trip to Hill Rock EstateDistillers.
They're located in Ancrum, newYork, in the beautiful Hudson
Valley.
That was fun, man.
(00:29):
It was.
You know you live in this areafor so many years and then you
don't realize that you'd everbeen on certain roads, and that
was one of those days where wewere on, like some new roads
Right.
Chef James (00:39):
It was, you know, and we again.
It was great because we alwaysend up catching up and talking
about things, but going andarriving there, it is this
beautiful estate.
You're going up this windingroad and you're going to the
visitor center there and you'repulling in and it is owned by
(01:01):
Jeffrey Baker and also KathyFranklin.
We were lucky enough toactually get the chance to do a
tour with the man you know.
You know, and here's anotherthing.
Oftentimes in my career I lovedoing things like this because,
like you've heard me say, if Ican step into someone else's
(01:21):
world, I gain a richerappreciation.
(01:24):
Agree yeah.
Chef James (01:25):
And I have a knowledge base for the whiskeys,
bourbons and an appreciationalready and really a love for
Hill Rock.
But for you and I to do thetour, that's where you know, as
a chef, as we're going out andpicking or we go to the food
shows, you know we go to thesethings.
Seeing you enjoy that tour itinspires me and I get a level of
(01:47):
appreciation out of it too,because we're both seeing some
really amazing stuff in there.
(01:51):
Yeah, especially with that kind of thing.
You know a lot of people don'teven think about the beyond the
scenes when they're taking a sipof whiskey.
Chef James (01:59):
No, right and we did a tasting there.
Jeffrey was with us on that youguys will hear that as well and
it was just very inspiring.
We're going through theirestablishment on that tour and
Jeffrey's even talking aboutthis Solera process, which I
don't want to go into fulldetail because I'll probably
jumble it up a bit.
It's an amazing process thatthey use for ports and cherries,
(02:21):
and so, going into Hill Rock,they are a world-class
establishment.
You know they have their Soleraaged bourbon, their double cask
rye and their single malts.
What did you think about thetasting?
I mean, that was it was awesome, man.
(02:37):
Yeah, I really enjoyed it, and I've mostly done wine tastings,
so to do a tasting like thatwas a little different, you know
, right, right.
And just like trying to getinto the particulars, it was
just interesting to see what theprocess for each was and then
what the difference was in thetaste.
Chef James (02:55):
The notes that are in there are.
I can't say I have a favorite,but you know they're all.
(03:00):
Yeah, it was all very different.
Chef James (03:02):
They're excellent.
They're excellent, yeah it wasall very different.
They're excellent, they'reexcellent, excellent.
And you know, I think thebeauty of Hill Rock is their
commitment to really beingpassionate about where they come
from.
(03:13):
Yeah.
Chef James (03:14):
You know that field to glass concept, that it's
theirs, you know, and they areowning the entire process from
their artisanal well that comesand then they do their corn
barley and rye.
They select those specificallyand they use sustainable farming
practices no pesticides, noherbicides, no chemical
(03:38):
fertilizers on their crops.
It's 850 acres and it's justbeautiful.
And Jeffrey is, and Kathy aswell, understanding that terroir
.
We think about that with winesright, the gravel, the levels,
the layering in the soil andmother nature and what it
(04:02):
provides, and heat andeverything right.
That it's a good year.
It's a this, it's a that theyhave that same commitment in
what they do and taking thatterroir concept, it's amazing,
man.
(04:18):
Yeah, it was cool to do the podcast at the place.
Chef James (04:21):
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
(04:22):
There were some noises.
You know there was a little bitof noise.
Chef James (04:26):
It sounds a little different than the normal
podcast right, we're on a fieldtrip yeah, and when we were in
that big visitor center, whichit was vaulted and you know
you're right there with thosebeautiful, you know copper
distillers on the other side ofthe wall and they're still
working.
They got work to do, yeah youknow.
So there's no slowing down,yeah, but it was a great
opportunity for us to get inthere and get inspired.
(04:47):
So you know what I thought was cool was uh, they don't have
any outside investors, so it'sreally his.
Uh, you know it's theiroperation, right, that makes
it's.
There's no outside influence.
Chef James (04:58):
There's no no, there's not some of these things
that can really affect theoutcome of your business, you
know.
(05:04):
So it's cool that he had another career that he was, you
know, funded this with.
Yeah.
You know that was interestingto me.
Chef James (05:12):
Yeah, and Kathy with her real estate, I mean just
all of it Very fortunate.
That was very.
You know, that's a very goodpoint, but yeah.
(05:21):
That was cool.
Chef James (05:22):
Yeah, very cool, it was a lot of fun.
Should so guess what guys?
Today on the podcast, we aredoing a field trip.
Jackson and I are at Hill RockEstate Distillery.
We are so lucky because we havethe man, jeffrey Baker, with us
.
Welcome, well, thank you.
(05:43):
James, it's such a pleasure.
Chef James (05:45):
Yeah, and you know I have to share with everyone,
not to make you jealous, butwe're going to go into a tasting
also with him.
We just got done with a tour,Jackson and I, with Jeffrey, and
it was truly inspiring.
There's a reason why you knowwe're here today is to, you know
, say thank you all for beingthe bar, you know, and
(06:05):
continually raising that withyour passion of what you do.
So can we go into like justkind of start up of you know?
How did you get into this?
(06:13):
I mean some people might say I'm out of my mind, but I grew
up working on farms as a kid, soI had this whole you know love
of agriculture and farming.
And when I moved to New York in1986, I pretty quickly realized
I needed to have an escape.
So I set up my first farm.
(06:34):
It was about 100 miles north ofNew York and I had one of the
earliest rotational grazed dairyherds in the East Coast in the
late 80s, then pasture-raisedbeef and you might say I was a
little ahead of the trend.
And then ultimately I wanted todo something very special here
at this location that reallyaccentuated the importance of
(06:59):
the Hudson Valley and theterroir that we have here.
So I started looking ateverything and was inspired by
Captain Israel Harris, who builtour house in 1806, who became a
really successful grainmerchant in the early 1800s.
So I was like wow.
Chef James (07:19):
I didn't even know they were growing grain here.
(07:22):
And as it turns out, there were probably a thousand farm
based distilleries.
So that sort of inspired me tolook at the movement the whiskey
movement that was justbeginning to happen in the craft
space, and I thought that theindustry was behind by a few
decades behind wine, that is andso my theory was that whiskey
(07:48):
should be just like a fine winein that it should be a
state-grown barley or rye orcorn, and it should be the
whiskey should come fromindividual fields that are
unique, right.
So we started doing that fromday one when we set up the
operation in 2010.
And we brought in the ex-MakersMark Master, distiller, dave
(08:13):
Pickrell and we just createdthis operation really from
scratch.
Chef James (08:19):
Okay, and you know, when we listen and we've seen
the amazing work that you all dohere, it really is, like you
say, that field to glass concept.
I mean, can you kind of give alittle bit of detail on that too
, because it's amazing.
(08:35):
Yeah, I should mention that we trademarked that, by the way.
Oh, okay.
Any of your guests who arethinking of using it.
don't Do not, you're making atrendy.
But what field-to-glass means tous is we control every aspect,
from growing the grain ourselvesto floor, malting it
(08:58):
traditionally on site, tomilling it, to distilling, to
aging.
So everything that happens withthat whiskey between when we
plant it to when you're drinkingit, we control.
Chef James (09:15):
Okay.
(09:16):
And that means it's unique and it can't really be duplicated
anywhere else, no matter whatyou do this location we farm
about 850 acres.
We grow all of the grain forour whiskeys on our own land and
we release whiskeys byindividual fields, so it's just
(09:39):
not possible to create that samewhiskey somewhere else.
Chef James (09:43):
Yeah, okay, and that's really amazing.
I mean going up into themalting room there and seeing
the space and when you look atthat square, square footage of
what you're doing I mean whenyou shared that was like an acre
of barley or I mean you're like, wow, you know that's a lot,
that's some money on the floor.
(10:05):
Well, the other thing people don't.
You know, at one point we wereall farmers.
Now it's pretty rare, andpeople don't really understand
the complexity of farming andhow different it is every year.
So our grain is different everyyear.
One year there's a drought andit's stressed just like in a
(10:28):
vineyard, just the way thegrapes are, and all of that
makes its way into the whiskeyand influences it.
So for us, that's what'sexciting about it is dealing
with the realities of farming,makes everything more
complicated, but also just somuch better.
(10:49):
Yeah.
Chef James (10:50):
Yeah, wow, that's amazing.
So, looking at your process too, you have the Solera process.
Can you go into that too,because that's a whole other
amazing, beautiful discussion.
(11:02):
Yeah, so we borrowed a lot of ideas from the wine world, and
Solera aging has been used forcenturies by port sherries,
cognacs, some other productsworldwide, but never for
American whiskey.
So we thought that it made alot of sense.
So what it is is, instead ofdumping a couple of barrels and
(11:24):
bottling them, we have a wholebuilding dedicated to our Solera
bourbon, and so we have thenursery, which is where New Make
Bourbon goes into New Chard Oakbarrels and lives there for at
least five years.
Then we have tier two, tierthree and tier four.
So it's almost as if every timewe go to buy, something you're
(11:49):
drinking is really a combinationof all the vintages we've made
of whiskey that are older thanfive years old.
So they're mingling together inthat solera, and every time we
draw a little bit out, we add alittle new make to the
five-year-old plus whiskey.
(12:10):
So what you're drinking is overeight years old on average, but
it's kind of a marriage of manydifferent vintages, right,
right.
Chef James (12:19):
Wow, that's amazing.
Well, yeah, I mean, I guess wehave the tasting here.
I mean, do we want to dive intothis?
And kind of, Well, why not?
Yeah, why not?
(12:29):
So as you may know, james, we produce three basic whiskeys.
So we create a bourbon whiskeywhich, as you might know, the
mash bill for bourbon whiskeyhas to include corn at least 51%
.
Ours is a higher rye content.
(12:50):
Then we make a rye whiskeywhich is all a state grown rye,
100% rye.
And then we make a single-maltwhiskey which is all
estate-grown barley, which isthen floor-malted on site.
They're all uniquely differentand I'd just invite you, james,
(13:11):
just to take the covers off andlet's just smell them a little
bit, start with nosing them.
Okay, and I think bourbon, youknow we start, we'll go left
clockwise.
So we have two bourbons, wehave our.
Solera-aged bourbon.
Then we have a Solera-agedbourbon that's been finished in
(13:32):
a Dick Shea, pinot Noir caskfrom Shea Vineyards, pinot Noir
cask from Shave Vineyards.
Then we have our Double CaskRye, which has gone into two new
charred American Oak casks, andthen we have our Double Cask
Rye that's the Founders release,which has basically been
(13:53):
finished in Port Sauternes, andMadeira casks, oh, wow.
And then we have the singlemalt.
Yeah, so let's smell thebourbon first.
So, james, you notice, like youpick up those, it's kind of
sweet notes.
Corn gives you a little bit ofsweetness, but ours goes into
(14:14):
oloroso shrycast, so you're alsomaybe smelling a little bit of
that nutty, fruity, floralcharacteristic, right?
Oh, that's beautiful.
And for all your podcast fans,I hope you come and visit us.
Chef James (14:28):
Oh yes, it's a must.
It's an amazing location.
(14:32):
Right Awesome property too.
So what do you think?
That's not bad, huh, wow, yeah,no, that's beautiful.
That's won about 50 gold medalsin major competitions.
There we go, this point.
Chef James (14:46):
Oh yeah, it's excellent.
Yeah, Are you kidding me?
Sure.
(14:51):
Now, what do you think about the next one with that Pinot
Noir cask?
Then you're going to pick up alittle bit of that red fruit.
Chef James (14:59):
I think, yeah, I agree, and actually I have this
bottle at home and it's reallyunfortunate because I'm almost
through that one.
(15:06):
Well, we might be able to help you out with that one Right.
Chef James (15:11):
Yeah, See that one, oh man.
(15:14):
It just adds a little bit more complexity to it.
I love how the tone of that isyeah, it's really special, wow,
it's way different.
Yeah, now you can slow down, butI don't want to rush you.
Then there's the Double CaskRye, which has won Best Rye
(15:35):
Whiskey in the World three timesin the Berlin competition.
Which has won best rye whiskeyin the world three times in the
Berlin competition, and it'salso won dozens of gold and
double gold medals.
What's unique about it is mostrye whiskeys are really a cousin
to bourbon and have corn inthem, ours is 100% rye.
So it's got this kind ofgravitas to it, yeah, and it's
(15:57):
almost viscous of gravitas to itand it's almost viscous and
very earthy Right.
Oh yeah, all of our whizziesthey're picking up different
profiles, but you're gettingchar from the barrels.
Okay, okay, because the insideof a barrel is really you.
(16:25):
It looks like charcoal, yeahyeah, and that's where you get
kind of almost um in whiteamerican oak, which we age in,
that has a lot of sugar andvanillin in it.
So what do you get when youchar that creme?
Chef James (16:30):
brulee.
(16:31):
Yeah, exactly, oh, that's awesome, and then we've got that
same whiskey.
But then it went into PortMadeira and Saturn casks.
It's almost like anold-fashioned glass.
Chef James (16:50):
It is.
(16:51):
It has that kind of tawny type of caramely yeah, again that
sort of richness, but it'sreally fabulous.
This is our founder's releasethat I married those different
finishes together.
Okay, now, both of those ryewhiskeys are being released.
(17:16):
This was our Wiltsie Bridge2016 harvest Yep, so it came
from a specific field.
Okay, now, if you tastedanother rye whiskey we make from
a different field, you woulddistinguish the differences.
Okay, wow.
Now then there's last but notleast, now, if you like peat
smoke, then this single malt ohthere it is.
(17:37):
Wow, it's got a like peat smoke.
Then this single malt oh thereit is.
Wow, it's got a little peatsmoke on it no, I got you yeah,
now again, that starts in newcharred American oak barrels,
then it goes to ex-bourbonbarrels, then it goes to a Pedro
Jimenez sherry cask and then toan Oloroso sherry cask.
(18:01):
So this has a lot of depth,that's big time smoky.
Chef James (18:05):
That's exactly.
(18:07):
I would argue this is the top rated American single malt.
Wow, it's won a 97 wineenthusiast rating.
It's gotten just incrediblescores everywhere we put it Lots
of double bolts.
Chef James (18:22):
Yeah, and I just love the variety where you're
getting like caramely banana,creme brulee, vanilla bean.
You know working your wayaround Layering.
(18:31):
Yeah, you know you should try this one, then with the port
finish on top of that, it's likebaker's chocolate and all these
others.
Oh, it's beautiful, it'sincredible.
They look amazing.
Wow, I hope your fans aren'tjealous.
Chef James (18:44):
Yeah, I know.
No, no, I'm sure they will be.
We'll make sure.
Why wouldn't they be?
Yeah, this has just beenamazing.
I mean so tasting all of theseand the amazing varieties that
you do have in the future.
Varieties that you do have inthe future, because in talking
to you, you're you're that,you're the here, but you're also
the future, this visionary.
So do you see things developingfurther for you, or is this
(19:08):
kind of like?
You know we're home and in thisfor right now?
(19:11):
well, I think um, for us it's been about creating a
world-class brand here in theHudson Valley and really making
a statement here.
This area is really a specialarea and it's becoming what I
call the Napa Valley of the EastCoast.
(19:32):
We've got amazing cheesemakersand charcuterie makers and
winemakers and brewers andwhiskey producers, and I think
this is a very food-centricplace.
Sure, because you're so rootedin the earth here.
It's such a beautiful placeit's hard not to become enamored
(19:52):
by it.
So for me this was a way tocreate a farm operation that had
potential to draw more peoplehere.
And we have folks visit fromall over the world, which is
kind of fun.
But you asked whether I mightadd some other things.
Well, you know, not that I'mlooking for another job besides
(20:16):
farmer, distiller et cetera.
Maltster, you know, I haveenough spent distiller's grain
that I could probably maintainabout a 200 head beef herd.
Oh.
So someday I think you might seehill rock beef.
That's basically been, you know, fed on hill rock grain.
(20:40):
You know, that's a few yearsfrom now.
I've got enough things.
It was interesting to hear yousay that you know you had
another career and so that youwere able to do this without
compromising.
You know you had another careerand so that you were able to do
this without compromising and,like, I find that a lot of
people will go all in on theirpassion without, and then they
will need to make it, make money, and so can you just talk more
(21:02):
about that Like not compromise?
Well, yeah, I mean I'm.
I'm a Wharton MBA grad, so I'ma finance guy, amongst some
other things, and so when Istarted this endeavor, I knew it
had the potential to be highlyprofitable or wouldn't have
necessarily embarked on it.
(21:24):
But I also felt that it was apassion of mine to make the
world's best field-to-glasswhiskey.
So it was important to us to beable to not cut corners, which
meant no partners, no debt, andwe were able to fund this.
And, as I said earlier, youknow the whiskey we're making
(21:46):
today we're not selling forprobably seven or eight years.
So it's a long game and youhave to be patient, and the last
thing you want to do is releasesomething before it's really
reached its potential.
So we've been really fortunatewith that At this point I'm
focusing the vast majority of myattention on Hill Rock and you
(22:10):
know it's just growing into anincredible business, right?
You know we'll be rolling outinternationally sometime soon.
We're in about 25 states fordistribution.
We'll be in 50 in two or three,four years right, sweet, that's
awesome.
Chef James (22:27):
What?
What do you see and how theindustry is going and you like
your pride points and maybeconcern points for the future.
Are there any thoughts?
(22:35):
Well, I think it's kind of funny.
Some of you, if you might bewine aficionados, would know, in
the 70s there was the Judgmentof Paris where Staggley beat
Latour and Rothschild in blindtastings.
And I think we're kind of inthe same inflection point in
(22:57):
whiskeys, in that we gohead-to-head in competitions and
beat all the established bigbrands.
And that's because we're doingthings very traditionally, but
with innovation also verytraditionally but with
innovation, right so, and we'rejust producing such high quality
(23:17):
and um that that people arehaving to look at us yeah and um
, so I'm I'm amused, because Ialso tried to trademark estate
distillery but they wouldn't letus and I I now see big brands
buying farmland and starting todo release think of doing
releases that they can callestate releases, and I think
(23:39):
that's really what people want.
Yeah, they want products thatare unique and different and
rooted in a place.
Chef James (23:47):
Right, and the palates have changed.
I mean, even you know, as beinga chef, um, I, I'm.
I know farmers feel that tocheesemakers, to you, know all
of us.
When you're, when you're in inthe roots and in that vision,
from a hundred percent ground upor well up it is, it just
speaks volumes.
Yeah, that artisanal side, thattouch is so powerful and you
(24:11):
taste it with everything you'redoing.
(24:13):
Yeah, it's definitely a good taste.
Chef James (24:14):
Isn't it something, yeah.
So you know, I'm reallygrateful, you know, for this
opportunity to come in here andand do this tour and enjoy some
time with you, because it's areal privilege.
(24:24):
Well, it's our privilege to share with you and your
listeners.
Yeah, thank you.
What's the best way for peopleto connect or come for a visit?
Yeah, so we do tastings byreserve here seven days a week.
Go to our website, book a tour,come on in and visit us.
There's so many of our releasesthat don't leave the distillery
(24:49):
that I guarantee you it'll bespecial if you come here, and
there are so many things you canfind and buy and take home with
you here that you just won'tfind in the market okay,
fantastic, well, all right.
Chef James (25:02):
Well, I think you know we're gonna roll off from
here, but, you know, thank youagain.
And uh, sorry you guys couldn'tbe here for the tasting because
it was outstanding.
Yeah, all right, everyone, thatis a wrap.
You can check us out if youlike that.
Subscribe Also the InstagramChef Massey.
Let's keep it simple, chefMassey dot com.
(25:25):
Have a good one.
Bye for now.
Hey everyone, welcome to Chef Sense.
I'm your host, chef MasseyAlright, so we went on a field
trip to Hill Rock EstateDistillers.
They're located in Ancrum, newYork, in the beautiful Hudson
Valley.
That was fun, man.
(00:29):
It was.
You know you live in this areafor so many years and then you
don't realize that you'd everbeen on certain roads, and that
was one of those days where wewere on, like some new roads
Right.
Chef James (00:39):
It was, you know, and we again.
It was great because we alwaysend up catching up and talking
about things, but going andarriving there, it is this
beautiful estate.
You're going up this windingroad and you're going to the
visitor center there and you'repulling in and it is owned by
(01:01):
Jeffrey Baker and also KathyFranklin.
We were lucky enough toactually get the chance to do a
tour with the man you know.
You know, and here's anotherthing.
Oftentimes in my career I lovedoing things like this because,
like you've heard me say, if Ican step into someone else's
(01:21):
world, I gain a richerappreciation.
(01:24):
Agree yeah.
Chef James (01:25):
And I have a knowledge base for the whiskeys,
bourbons and an appreciationalready and really a love for
Hill Rock.
But for you and I to do thetour, that's where you know, as
a chef, as we're going out andpicking or we go to the food
shows, you know we go to thesethings.
Seeing you enjoy that tour itinspires me and I get a level of
(01:47):
appreciation out of it too,because we're both seeing some
really amazing stuff in there.
(01:51):
Yeah, especially with that kind of thing.
You know a lot of people don'teven think about the beyond the
scenes when they're taking a sipof whiskey.
Chef James (01:59):
No, right and we did a tasting there.
Jeffrey was with us on that youguys will hear that as well and
it was just very inspiring.
We're going through theirestablishment on that tour and
Jeffrey's even talking aboutthis Solera process, which I
don't want to go into fulldetail because I'll probably
jumble it up a bit.
It's an amazing process thatthey use for ports and cherries,
(02:21):
and so, going into Hill Rock,they are a world-class
establishment.
You know they have their Soleraaged bourbon, their double cask
rye and their single malts.
What did you think about thetasting?
I mean, that was it was awesome, man.
(02:37):
Yeah, I really enjoyed it, and I've mostly done wine tastings,
so to do a tasting like thatwas a little different, you know
, right, right.
And just like trying to getinto the particulars, it was
just interesting to see what theprocess for each was and then
what the difference was in thetaste.
Chef James (02:55):
The notes that are in there are.
I can't say I have a favorite,but you know they're all.
(03:00):
Yeah, it was all very different.
Chef James (03:02):
They're excellent.
They're excellent, yeah it wasall very different.
They're excellent, they'reexcellent, excellent.
And you know, I think thebeauty of Hill Rock is their
commitment to really beingpassionate about where they come
from.
(03:13):
Yeah.
Chef James (03:14):
You know that field to glass concept, that it's
theirs, you know, and they areowning the entire process from
their artisanal well that comesand then they do their corn
barley and rye.
They select those specificallyand they use sustainable farming
practices no pesticides, noherbicides, no chemical
(03:38):
fertilizers on their crops.
It's 850 acres and it's justbeautiful.
And Jeffrey is, and Kathy aswell, understanding that terroir
.
We think about that with winesright, the gravel, the levels,
the layering in the soil andmother nature and what it
(04:02):
provides, and heat andeverything right.
That it's a good year.
It's a this, it's a that theyhave that same commitment in
what they do and taking thatterroir concept, it's amazing,
man.
(04:18):
Yeah, it was cool to do the podcast at the place.
Chef James (04:21):
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
(04:22):
There were some noises.
You know there was a little bitof noise.
Chef James (04:26):
It sounds a little different than the normal
podcast right, we're on a fieldtrip yeah, and when we were in
that big visitor center, whichit was vaulted and you know
you're right there with thosebeautiful, you know copper
distillers on the other side ofthe wall and they're still
working.
They got work to do, yeah youknow.
So there's no slowing down,yeah, but it was a great
opportunity for us to get inthere and get inspired.
(04:47):
So you know what I thought was cool was uh, they don't have
any outside investors, so it'sreally his.
Uh, you know it's theiroperation, right, that makes
it's.
There's no outside influence.
Chef James (04:58):
There's no no, there's not some of these things
that can really affect theoutcome of your business, you
know.
(05:04):
So it's cool that he had another career that he was, you
know, funded this with.
Yeah.
You know that was interestingto me.
Chef James (05:12):
Yeah, and Kathy with her real estate, I mean just
all of it Very fortunate.
That was very.
You know, that's a very goodpoint, but yeah.
(05:21):
That was cool.
Chef James (05:22):
Yeah, very cool, it was a lot of fun.
Should so guess what guys?
Today on the podcast, we aredoing a field trip.
Jackson and I are at Hill RockEstate Distillery.
We are so lucky because we havethe man, jeffrey Baker, with us
.
Welcome, well, thank you.
(05:43):
James, it's such a pleasure.
Chef James (05:45):
Yeah, and you know I have to share with everyone,
not to make you jealous, butwe're going to go into a tasting
also with him.
We just got done with a tour,Jackson and I, with Jeffrey, and
it was truly inspiring.
There's a reason why you knowwe're here today is to, you know
, say thank you all for beingthe bar, you know, and
(06:05):
continually raising that withyour passion of what you do.
So can we go into like justkind of start up of you know?
How did you get into this?
(06:13):
I mean some people might say I'm out of my mind, but I grew
up working on farms as a kid, soI had this whole you know love
of agriculture and farming.
And when I moved to New York in1986, I pretty quickly realized
I needed to have an escape.
So I set up my first farm.
(06:34):
It was about 100 miles north ofNew York and I had one of the
earliest rotational grazed dairyherds in the East Coast in the
late 80s, then pasture-raisedbeef and you might say I was a
little ahead of the trend.
And then ultimately I wanted todo something very special here
at this location that reallyaccentuated the importance of
(06:59):
the Hudson Valley and theterroir that we have here.
So I started looking ateverything and was inspired by
Captain Israel Harris, who builtour house in 1806, who became a
really successful grainmerchant in the early 1800s.
So I was like wow.
Chef James (07:19):
I didn't even know they were growing grain here.
(07:22):
And as it turns out, there were probably a thousand farm
based distilleries.
So that sort of inspired me tolook at the movement the whiskey
movement that was justbeginning to happen in the craft
space, and I thought that theindustry was behind by a few
decades behind wine, that is andso my theory was that whiskey
(07:48):
should be just like a fine winein that it should be a
state-grown barley or rye orcorn, and it should be the
whiskey should come fromindividual fields that are
unique, right.
So we started doing that fromday one when we set up the
operation in 2010.
And we brought in the ex-MakersMark Master, distiller, dave
(08:13):
Pickrell and we just createdthis operation really from
scratch.
Chef James (08:19):
Okay, and you know, when we listen and we've seen
the amazing work that you all dohere, it really is, like you
say, that field to glass concept.
I mean, can you kind of give alittle bit of detail on that too
, because it's amazing.
(08:35):
Yeah, I should mention that we trademarked that, by the way.
Oh, okay.
Any of your guests who arethinking of using it.
don't Do not, you're making atrendy.
But what field-to-glass means tous is we control every aspect,
from growing the grain ourselvesto floor, malting it
(08:58):
traditionally on site, tomilling it, to distilling, to
aging.
So everything that happens withthat whiskey between when we
plant it to when you're drinkingit, we control.
Chef James (09:15):
Okay.
(09:16):
And that means it's unique and it can't really be duplicated
anywhere else, no matter whatyou do this location we farm
about 850 acres.
We grow all of the grain forour whiskeys on our own land and
we release whiskeys byindividual fields, so it's just
(09:39):
not possible to create that samewhiskey somewhere else.
Chef James (09:43):
Yeah, okay, and that's really amazing.
I mean going up into themalting room there and seeing
the space and when you look atthat square, square footage of
what you're doing I mean whenyou shared that was like an acre
of barley or I mean you're like, wow, you know that's a lot,
that's some money on the floor.
(10:05):
Well, the other thing people don't.
You know, at one point we wereall farmers.
Now it's pretty rare, andpeople don't really understand
the complexity of farming andhow different it is every year.
So our grain is different everyyear.
One year there's a drought andit's stressed just like in a
(10:28):
vineyard, just the way thegrapes are, and all of that
makes its way into the whiskeyand influences it.
So for us, that's what'sexciting about it is dealing
with the realities of farming,makes everything more
complicated, but also just somuch better.
(10:49):
Yeah.
Chef James (10:50):
Yeah, wow, that's amazing.
So, looking at your process too, you have the Solera process.
Can you go into that too,because that's a whole other
amazing, beautiful discussion.
(11:02):
Yeah, so we borrowed a lot of ideas from the wine world, and
Solera aging has been used forcenturies by port sherries,
cognacs, some other productsworldwide, but never for
American whiskey.
So we thought that it made alot of sense.
So what it is is, instead ofdumping a couple of barrels and
(11:24):
bottling them, we have a wholebuilding dedicated to our Solera
bourbon, and so we have thenursery, which is where New Make
Bourbon goes into New Chard Oakbarrels and lives there for at
least five years.
Then we have tier two, tierthree and tier four.
So it's almost as if every timewe go to buy, something you're
(11:49):
drinking is really a combinationof all the vintages we've made
of whiskey that are older thanfive years old.
So they're mingling together inthat solera, and every time we
draw a little bit out, we add alittle new make to the
five-year-old plus whiskey.
(12:10):
So what you're drinking is overeight years old on average, but
it's kind of a marriage of manydifferent vintages, right,
right.
Chef James (12:19):
Wow, that's amazing.
Well, yeah, I mean, I guess wehave the tasting here.
I mean, do we want to dive intothis?
And kind of, Well, why not?
Yeah, why not?
(12:29):
So as you may know, james, we produce three basic whiskeys.
So we create a bourbon whiskeywhich, as you might know, the
mash bill for bourbon whiskeyhas to include corn at least 51%
.
Ours is a higher rye content.
(12:50):
Then we make a rye whiskeywhich is all a state grown rye,
100% rye.
And then we make a single-maltwhiskey which is all
estate-grown barley, which isthen floor-malted on site.
They're all uniquely differentand I'd just invite you, james,
(13:11):
just to take the covers off andlet's just smell them a little
bit, start with nosing them.
Okay, and I think bourbon, youknow we start, we'll go left
clockwise.
So we have two bourbons, wehave our.
Solera-aged bourbon.
Then we have a Solera-agedbourbon that's been finished in
(13:32):
a Dick Shea, pinot Noir caskfrom Shea Vineyards, pinot Noir
cask from Shave Vineyards.
Then we have our Double CaskRye, which has gone into two new
charred American Oak casks, andthen we have our Double Cask
Rye that's the Founders release,which has basically been
(13:53):
finished in Port Sauternes, andMadeira casks, oh, wow.
And then we have the singlemalt.
Yeah, so let's smell thebourbon first.
So, james, you notice, like youpick up those, it's kind of
sweet notes.
Corn gives you a little bit ofsweetness, but ours goes into
(14:14):
oloroso shrycast, so you're alsomaybe smelling a little bit of
that nutty, fruity, floralcharacteristic, right?
Oh, that's beautiful.
And for all your podcast fans,I hope you come and visit us.
Chef James (14:28):
Oh yes, it's a must.
It's an amazing location.
(14:32):
Right Awesome property too.
So what do you think?
That's not bad, huh, wow, yeah,no, that's beautiful.
That's won about 50 gold medalsin major competitions.
There we go, this point.
Chef James (14:46):
Oh yeah, it's excellent.
Yeah, Are you kidding me?
Sure.
(14:51):
Now, what do you think about the next one with that Pinot
Noir cask?
Then you're going to pick up alittle bit of that red fruit.
Chef James (14:59):
I think, yeah, I agree, and actually I have this
bottle at home and it's reallyunfortunate because I'm almost
through that one.
(15:06):
Well, we might be able to help you out with that one Right.
Chef James (15:11):
Yeah, See that one, oh man.
(15:14):
It just adds a little bit more complexity to it.
I love how the tone of that isyeah, it's really special, wow,
it's way different.
Yeah, now you can slow down, butI don't want to rush you.
Then there's the Double CaskRye, which has won Best Rye
(15:35):
Whiskey in the World three timesin the Berlin competition.
Which has won best rye whiskeyin the world three times in the
Berlin competition, and it'salso won dozens of gold and
double gold medals.
What's unique about it is mostrye whiskeys are really a cousin
to bourbon and have corn inthem, ours is 100% rye.
So it's got this kind ofgravitas to it, yeah, and it's
(15:57):
almost viscous of gravitas to itand it's almost viscous and
very earthy Right.
Oh yeah, all of our whizziesthey're picking up different
profiles, but you're gettingchar from the barrels.
Okay, okay, because the insideof a barrel is really you.
(16:25):
It looks like charcoal, yeahyeah, and that's where you get
kind of almost um in whiteamerican oak, which we age in,
that has a lot of sugar andvanillin in it.
So what do you get when youchar that creme?
Chef James (16:30):
brulee.
(16:31):
Yeah, exactly, oh, that's awesome, and then we've got that
same whiskey.
But then it went into PortMadeira and Saturn casks.
It's almost like anold-fashioned glass.
Chef James (16:50):
It is.
(16:51):
It has that kind of tawny type of caramely yeah, again that
sort of richness, but it'sreally fabulous.
This is our founder's releasethat I married those different
finishes together.
Okay, now, both of those ryewhiskeys are being released.
(17:16):
This was our Wiltsie Bridge2016 harvest Yep, so it came
from a specific field.
Okay, now, if you tastedanother rye whiskey we make from
a different field, you woulddistinguish the differences.
Okay, wow.
Now then there's last but notleast, now, if you like peat
smoke, then this single malt ohthere it is.
(17:37):
Wow, it's got a like peat smoke.
Then this single malt oh thereit is.
Wow, it's got a little peatsmoke on it no, I got you yeah,
now again, that starts in newcharred American oak barrels,
then it goes to ex-bourbonbarrels, then it goes to a Pedro
Jimenez sherry cask and then toan Oloroso sherry cask.
(18:01):
So this has a lot of depth,that's big time smoky.
Chef James (18:05):
That's exactly.
(18:07):
I would argue this is the top rated American single malt.
Wow, it's won a 97 wineenthusiast rating.
It's gotten just incrediblescores everywhere we put it Lots
of double bolts.
Chef James (18:22):
Yeah, and I just love the variety where you're
getting like caramely banana,creme brulee, vanilla bean.
You know working your wayaround Layering.
(18:31):
Yeah, you know you should try this one, then with the port
finish on top of that, it's likebaker's chocolate and all these
others.
Oh, it's beautiful, it'sincredible.
They look amazing.
Wow, I hope your fans aren'tjealous.
Chef James (18:44):
Yeah, I know.
No, no, I'm sure they will be.
We'll make sure.
Why wouldn't they be?
Yeah, this has just beenamazing.
I mean so tasting all of theseand the amazing varieties that
you do have in the future.
Varieties that you do have inthe future, because in talking
to you, you're you're that,you're the here, but you're also
the future, this visionary.
So do you see things developingfurther for you, or is this
(19:08):
kind of like?
You know we're home and in thisfor right now?
(19:11):
well, I think um, for us it's been about creating a
world-class brand here in theHudson Valley and really making
a statement here.
This area is really a specialarea and it's becoming what I
call the Napa Valley of the EastCoast.
(19:32):
We've got amazing cheesemakersand charcuterie makers and
winemakers and brewers andwhiskey producers, and I think
this is a very food-centricplace.
Sure, because you're so rootedin the earth here.
It's such a beautiful placeit's hard not to become enamored
(19:52):
by it.
So for me this was a way tocreate a farm operation that had
potential to draw more peoplehere.
And we have folks visit fromall over the world, which is
kind of fun.
But you asked whether I mightadd some other things.
Well, you know, not that I'mlooking for another job besides
(20:16):
farmer, distiller et cetera.
Maltster, you know, I haveenough spent distiller's grain
that I could probably maintainabout a 200 head beef herd.
Oh.
So someday I think you might seehill rock beef.
That's basically been, you know, fed on hill rock grain.
(20:40):
You know, that's a few yearsfrom now.
I've got enough things.
It was interesting to hear yousay that you know you had
another career and so that youwere able to do this without
compromising.
You know you had another careerand so that you were able to do
this without compromising and,like, I find that a lot of
people will go all in on theirpassion without, and then they
will need to make it, make money, and so can you just talk more
(21:02):
about that Like not compromise?
Well, yeah, I mean I'm.
I'm a Wharton MBA grad, so I'ma finance guy, amongst some
other things, and so when Istarted this endeavor, I knew it
had the potential to be highlyprofitable or wouldn't have
necessarily embarked on it.
(21:24):
But I also felt that it was apassion of mine to make the
world's best field-to-glasswhiskey.
So it was important to us to beable to not cut corners, which
meant no partners, no debt, andwe were able to fund this.
And, as I said earlier, youknow the whiskey we're making
(21:46):
today we're not selling forprobably seven or eight years.
So it's a long game and youhave to be patient, and the last
thing you want to do is releasesomething before it's really
reached its potential.
So we've been really fortunatewith that At this point I'm
focusing the vast majority of myattention on Hill Rock and you
(22:10):
know it's just growing into anincredible business, right?
You know we'll be rolling outinternationally sometime soon.
We're in about 25 states fordistribution.
We'll be in 50 in two or three,four years right, sweet, that's
awesome.
Chef James (22:27):
What?
What do you see and how theindustry is going and you like
your pride points and maybeconcern points for the future.
Are there any thoughts?
(22:35):
Well, I think it's kind of funny.
Some of you, if you might bewine aficionados, would know, in
the 70s there was the Judgmentof Paris where Staggley beat
Latour and Rothschild in blindtastings.
And I think we're kind of inthe same inflection point in
(22:57):
whiskeys, in that we gohead-to-head in competitions and
beat all the established bigbrands.
And that's because we're doingthings very traditionally, but
with innovation also verytraditionally but with
innovation, right so, and we'rejust producing such high quality
(23:17):
and um that that people arehaving to look at us yeah and um
, so I'm I'm amused, because Ialso tried to trademark estate
distillery but they wouldn't letus and I I now see big brands
buying farmland and starting todo release think of doing
releases that they can callestate releases, and I think
(23:39):
that's really what people want.
Yeah, they want products thatare unique and different and
rooted in a place.
Chef James (23:47):
Right, and the palates have changed.
I mean, even you know, as beinga chef, um, I, I'm.
I know farmers feel that tocheesemakers, to you, know all
of us.
When you're, when you're in inthe roots and in that vision,
from a hundred percent ground upor well up it is, it just
speaks volumes.
Yeah, that artisanal side, thattouch is so powerful and you
(24:11):
taste it with everything you'redoing.
(24:13):
Yeah, it's definitely a good taste.
Chef James (24:14):
Isn't it something, yeah.
So you know, I'm reallygrateful, you know, for this
opportunity to come in here andand do this tour and enjoy some
time with you, because it's areal privilege.
(24:24):
Well, it's our privilege to share with you and your
listeners.
Yeah, thank you.
What's the best way for peopleto connect or come for a visit?
Yeah, so we do tastings byreserve here seven days a week.
Go to our website, book a tour,come on in and visit us.
There's so many of our releasesthat don't leave the distillery
(24:49):
that I guarantee you it'll bespecial if you come here, and
there are so many things you canfind and buy and take home with
you here that you just won'tfind in the market okay,
fantastic, well, all right.
Chef James (25:02):
Well, I think you know we're gonna roll off from
here, but, you know, thank youagain.
And uh, sorry you guys couldn'tbe here for the tasting because
it was outstanding.
Yeah, all right, everyone, thatis a wrap.
You can check us out if youlike that.
Subscribe Also the InstagramChef Massey.
Let's keep it simple, chefMassey dot com.
(25:25):
Have a good one.
Bye for now.
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