April 17, 2024 • 47 mins
Imagine finding your life's calling in the idyllic landscapes of Italy, surrounded by the finest food and wine. This was the reality for Jamie and Madison, the heart and soul behind Dancing Greens Farm, who joined us to share their journey from studying food systems to creating a community-centered vegetable oasis. Their tale is not only about farming but also about cultivating joy through their farm-to-table shindigs that spotlight the freshest, locally grown produce. The duo launched their farm in January 2023 and already boasts an impressive roster of over 160 produce varieties, amplifying their belief in the power of diversity on the plate and in the field.
When you think about fennel, does cake come to mind? Thanks to Jamie and Madison, it might now. In this episode, we unwrap culinary innovation at its most delicious, discussing how a dessert like fennel cake with honey fennel syrup is winning hearts and changing minds. The secret ingredient here, beyond the produce, is the spirit of collaboration. From partnerships with local artisans to accommodating diverse diets, our guests reveal how they're weaving a narrative of sustainability and inclusion into every meal. It's a celebration of Berkshire County's culinary tapestry and a testament to how relationships can transform a farm's harvest into a shared community feast.
Thank you Jamie, Madison and Team!!,
https://www.dancing-greens.com/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chef James (00:14):
Hey everyone, welcome to Chef Sense.
I'm your host, chef Massey.
Okay, so today in the studio, Iam so excited we have Jamie and
Madison from Dancing GreensFarm.
I am so excited we have Jamieand Madison from Dancing Greens
Farm.
Now that name in itself that'slike a shot of uber, shot of
vitamin D, like that makes mehappy.
Like even that name alone likepulls you right in, so like
(00:37):
let's hear about it.
This is cool.
Farmer Jamie (00:38):
Yeah, absolutely Well, thank you so much for
having us in.
We're so excited to be here andto be sharing what we're doing.
We're fans of the podcast.
Chef James (00:49):
Thank you so much, I'm grateful.
Farmer Jamie (00:51):
Dancing Greens Farm is a small diversified
vegetable farm in.
Monterey.
We grow and sell our produceand in addition to our produce,
we put on what we call shim digs, which are, by definition,
definition, a full oncelebration.
So we do farm to table dinnersand events where we bring people
(01:13):
in to what we are doing.
Chef James (01:15):
Which is amazing, right, that is so cool, yeah,
okay.
Farmer Jamie (01:20):
And so Madison and I met in studying food systems
in graduate school in Italy.
Chef James (01:26):
Yeah, like I saw that.
How cool is that.
Wow, yeah, so we met on anothercontinent brought together by
food.
Farmer Jamie (01:34):
I really was there because I come from a
background of agriculture andenvironmental science.
Chef James (01:40):
Oh, so, awesome.
Farmer Jamie (01:41):
I'm very motivated by how interconnected
agriculture and climate changeare and all of the you know
systematic problems that arethere with it, and Madison comes
from a culinary background.
Okay, so she's very motivatedby cooking and bringing you know
(02:01):
high quality food to people.
Chef James (02:03):
Yep.
Farmer Jamie (02:04):
And also motivated by good food, helping human
health, basically, and whentalking more and learning more.
Basically, environmental health, the health of the soil and the
organisms living in it, and thehealth of people with what
they're eating.
They're basically the samething, yeah, so we need to
consistently be putting themtogether.
(02:25):
Sure, and that's sort of whatbrought us together.
Chef James (02:28):
That's so cool.
Yeah, wow, yeah, okay.
Farmer Jamie (02:32):
And then we.
So we met there and startedlearning and when we, a few
months into the program, we gotto go to this agriturismo in
Tuscany and literally we were,it sounds sort of fake we were
walking in this beautifulsetting, you know, in between,
(02:55):
in the olive fields, basicallytalking about everything we're
learning, where we came from andour dreams for the future, and
basically we realized like, oh,we have the same dream, the
exact same dream, the exact samedream.
Chef James (03:09):
Okay.
Farmer Jamie (03:10):
Yeah so cool.
Actually, because you mentionedthe name, we have a really fun
story about where the name camefrom.
Chef James (03:16):
Oh cool, that's even better.
Chef Madison (03:19):
So we were actually on this foraging
expedition in Italy, which wasincredible, but it's really cool
group of people, and it was ledby this gentleman who had been
foraging and working with groupsin the area for so many years,
and we were walking through andidentifying plants that are
edible, and then he'd hold oneup, and then he'd hold up
another one that looked exactlythe same and say and this one
(03:40):
will kill you.
Wow'll get your attention, andso we spent this afternoon,
gathering these edible plantsand bringing them back um, and
we were looking at thisbeautiful lake and music started
playing because everybody had,you know, accordions and whatnot
, and this kind of joyfulcelebration broke out.
And as we're about to eat allthe food that we gathered, we
(04:03):
realized nobody brought anyutensils, so we all just started
eating the salad with our handsand dancing with the music and
we were like dancing and greensand and when we were named,
thinking we're like it has to besomething that encapsulates
that experience that we had.
That was just pure joy, justpure joy.
Chef James (04:21):
So that's what we're trying to do.
That is so cool.
Yeah, wow, what a foundation.
So now, how long have you beenin operation?
Farmer Jamie (04:28):
Well, we had been dreaming about it for a long
time but, we legally becameestablished January of last year
.
Jackson (04:37):
Okay 2023.
Farmer Jamie (04:38):
2023.
So we just did our first seasonand we're going into our second
season.
Chef James (04:42):
Okay, oh wow, that's awesome.
First season and we're goinginto our second season.
Okay, oh wow, that's awesome.
So when you look at your, youroperation size, I mean what,
what size is that?
Your, your acreage and whatyou're dealing with?
Farmer Jamie (04:52):
So the growing space is a half an acre, so it's
very small.
We do like hyper-intensivemarket garden style.
Chef James (05:00):
Okay.
Farmer Jamie (05:01):
And since we are doing the shindigs and events,
I'm sort of growing for that.
Chef James (05:05):
Okay, yeah, I would Yep.
Farmer Jamie (05:07):
In demonstrating what we can do on a small scale.
Chef James (05:10):
Okay.
Chef Madison (05:10):
But, in addition to what we're growing for the
shindigs, jamie's also growingfor last year we had a farm
stand this year we'll enter theWest Dockbridge Farmer's Market
on Thursday evenings.
Last year we did a small CSA.
This year we have opportunitiesto expand our growing space,
which Jamie should speak to.
Farmer Jamie (05:28):
Tom Brazy at the farm in Marlboro is letting us
grow some over there.
So we're actually going to getto expand our growing space.
Chef James (05:35):
That's fantastic Okay.
Chef Madison (05:38):
But as somebody who's not a farmer, who's come
into this relationship where Iget to work very closely with a
farmer.
It's really incredible, becausewhen I saw the half acre I
didn't know what could come outof that and when we started
dreaming and picking out seedsat the beginning of last year I
just kind of begged Jamie togive us as much color and
(05:58):
variety and interestingvegetables and herbs and edible
flowers that she could come upwith, and she grew over 160
varieties.
Chef James (06:06):
Really, yes, wow, that's unbelievable.
Thank you, she's really good.
I think when we were dreamingin Italy.
Chef Madison (06:15):
We both talked a big game about what we were
capable of, but we didn'tactually know that we could pull
this off, and I didn't knowthat Jamie was such a fantastic
farmer until we got into it.
Farmer Jamie (06:24):
Wow, that's so awesome.
Thank you, madison's very kind.
Yeah, she's my hype woman.
Yeah, well, that's hey that's,that's a team.
Chef James (06:30):
Absolutely Stick together and do what you love to
do.
Chef Madison (06:33):
Right.
Chef James (06:33):
Okay, wow, very cool .
Chef Madison (06:35):
Can I keep hyping?
Sure, yeah, so.
So last year we we started inJanuary Um, by March Jamie had
completely become the brainchildof what the irrigation system
would be.
She's never done irrigation bythe way.
Designed and built anirrigation system from scratch,
(06:56):
brought in electric, tealed upor cut into the sod because the
space was just a big lawn,essentially Built the hoop house
, built the shed, built anoutdoor kitchen and got plants
in the ground all in threemonths, wow.
Farmer Jamie (07:11):
I had some help, yeah, but yeah it was.
Chef James (07:14):
That's great.
Farmer Jamie (07:15):
We had a goal of what we wanted to get done for,
you know, starting the season.
Chef James (07:19):
Yeah.
Farmer Jamie (07:20):
And that space, you know, had the opportunity to
be transformed.
Chef James (07:25):
Are you doing dinners every?
Is this like every week, like acouple dinners every week, or
is this like full five days?
Farmer Jamie (07:32):
No, so it is more sporadic than that.
We did 10 shindigs last year.
Chef James (07:37):
Okay, they take.
Farmer Jamie (07:39):
You know they're a big lift to put on.
Chef James (07:41):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Farmer Jamie (07:42):
And they're a very special thing to set up the
table and do the outdoor kitchen.
So we did 10 from the month ofJuly to October.
Yeah, wow, very cool and ourshindigs last year.
Chef Madison (07:56):
We got to experiment quite a bit.
So we did, kind of ourquintessential, the kind of the
thing that we realized was themost special.
That actually felt like magicand when I talk about it and
think about it I get goosebumpsbecause it was that cool and
those experiences, thoseshindigs where we would bring
anywhere from 25 to 35 people tothe farm.
(08:16):
If we're on Blue Hill Road,which is just a really
picturesque location already soyou drive in through these, you
know magical trees and you enterthe farm and we have a little
pond next to our growing space.
So you walk over the pond andyou enter the farm and Jamie
greets you and we have a littlebeverage and you get to learn
(08:37):
about how she's growingeverything.
So we do a really immersivefarm tour.
It's a lot of education.
That tour usually lastsanywhere from half an hour to an
hour, depending on how excitedpeople are.
And people tend to be reallyexcited about that.
Chef James (08:50):
Oh sure.
Chef Madison (08:52):
And while Jamie's showing people vegetables and
kind of blowing their mind thata zucchini plant grows this way
and this leaf means this plant,I get to come around with little
bites of the food that we'veactually just harvested that
morning.
Chef James (09:04):
Okay.
Chef Madison (09:06):
And then we all come together and sit at a long
table in the center of the farm.
So you're actually you canstill smell the tomatoes growing
right next to you.
Chef James (09:13):
Oh, I love that.
It's amazing that tacky likeyeah just stays with you once
you touch the leaf?
Farmer Jamie (09:20):
Yeah, definitely the tomatoes.
Jackson (09:22):
You got me yeah, yeah you got me yeah, yeah, wow,
that's.
Chef James (09:26):
So is this like multiple courses, or is it like
family style, or it's?
Chef Madison (09:30):
it is a lot of courses because okay because
jamie is growing.
I said 160 varieties, so somuch, yeah, deliciousness.
That is really hard for me, assomebody who really likes to
cook, to to limit myself.
So we're we're kind of doinganywhere from eight to 10
courses.
We're doing family style oh fun.
And the reason we do familystyle is, one, it's less waste,
(09:52):
which is really important to us.
But two, it's more communal andmore exciting and you have to
talk to the person next to you.
And it kind of creates thatcommunity vibe, so it's a really
joyful atmosphere.
And then at the end of our 10courses the most fun I've had is
actually trying to figure outhow to put vegetables into
dessert.
(10:12):
So I do a lot of that.
Chef James (10:16):
That's pretty cool.
What are some?
Jackson (10:18):
desserts.
Oh, there you go, vegetabledesserts.
Chef Madison (10:22):
I think the favorite last year was maybe
fennel cake.
Chef James (10:26):
Oh.
Chef Madison (10:26):
So doing a fennel honey syrup, kind of drenching
this fennel cake, and so it justis like fennel is so sweet and
delicious.
Chef James (10:35):
It is.
That's a great idea.
Chef Madison (10:37):
And some people think they hate fennel.
And then they try the cake andthey're like oh no, no, I love
fennel.
This is amazing.
Chef James (10:42):
That's great try the cake and they're like oh no, no
, I love that.
Chef Madison (10:44):
This is amazing, that's great.
And then we did a lot with huskcherries and jams and pavlovas
and fun things like that.
Chef James (10:50):
Okay, wow, you are really busy with that.
Farmer Jamie (10:54):
And also, in addition, we partner a lot with
people.
That's a huge tenet to.
What we want to do iscollaborations and community
building and partners, and ofcourse, we're only growing
vegetables, so by having thesedinners we're able to feature
other farms and other productsthat we really admire and are
doing really good work that'sgreat.
Chef James (11:16):
Wow, that's busy yes , busy gee, so I I would imagine
this is like plant forward,obviously.
Chef Madison (11:24):
Is it vegetarian?
No, okay.
Chef James (11:27):
So it's like almost like that Mediterranean diet
where you're vegetable forwardbut and accentuating with like
quality proteins and preparationon that Exactly.
Chef Madison (11:37):
And one of the things that we care a lot about.
Actually, I'm lactoseintolerant.
Jackson (11:41):
Oh boy.
Farmer Jamie (11:41):
Jamie's a vegetarian.
Chef Madison (11:43):
We have people in our lives that are celiac or
that have a nut allergy.
Somebody we care a lot aboutactually hates cilantro.
Chef James (11:52):
So you know people come with a lot of different
preferences and allergies.
Yes, there's a lot.
Chef Madison (11:57):
There's a lot of that and one of the things we
found when we've been going tofarms to eat or doing these kind
of farm-to-table style dinnersthat it's actually really
difficult for everybody at thetable to feel taken care of and
for all of those allergies to beaccommodated.
So we do that.
It's really important to us.
So we send out a survey before.
So we know, exactly what peopleare coming with, and then we
(12:19):
cater to all of the diets andmake sure that nobody feels
uncomfortable or awkward orunsafe.
You know they have it all, butwhat that means is that
vegetables tend to have frontand center at the table, because
so many people can eat so manyvegetables.
Chef James (12:34):
Right, okay, that's pretty awesome, you know,
looking at.
Are there like themes that youdo for each dinner or you just
kind of?
Farmer Jamie (12:43):
We did a lot of veggie puns last year oh, you
know, cool, those are great totheme our dinners um so.
But this year we sort of wantto focus more on bigger themes
like theme of circularity okay,um and theming like using waste
and things like that oh greatidea so we like to slip in bits
(13:06):
of education in like a joyfulexperience.
So I'm very aware of how a lotof farming spaces can feel
preachy or like you're coming toa lecture, and we don't want it
to feel like that.
We want it to feel like you'recoming to have this really fun
time on a farm and eat reallywell and then you're learning
(13:30):
something as well, like you hadno idea that you could save.
You know the carrot tops andmake a pasta oh yeah, that's a
great idea.
Sure, sure, right, so right, um,that's a big part of what we
want to do in, you know, oureducation to feel immersive and
joyful.
See, and that's you big part ofwhat we want to do in, you know
, our education to feelimmersive and joyful.
Chef James (13:47):
See, and that's you know, I think, especially today,
I mean as chefs and as farmers,you know we have a great
responsibility to the land.
It starts with the land, itstarts with the animals, the
husbandry, like how that goes,because you taste a difference.
Farmer Jamie (14:03):
Absolutely.
Chef James (14:04):
And it's you know it's my opinion, but it's the
right thing to do.
But you know it goes such along way because it's such a
true story and journey thatyou're putting forward.
It's beautiful to see that moreand more today.
You know, especially with youknow the work that you guys are
all doing and setting theexample.
It's great, so wow.
Farmer Jamie (14:23):
We love the storytelling piece of it.
Yeah, to like give everyvegetable their own stories in
addition to like our stories orhow we came, how you know we got
started and there's a storywith the season as well.
So, like the obstacles or theyou know, joyful moments that we
experience as it goes, like webelieve in, like threading that
(14:45):
in to our dinners and what we'reputting out there.
Chef James (14:48):
Yeah and I love the idea of like I always like doing
that kind of mind play withsweet and savory.
Not everything 100% goes, but Ithink mastering that skill set
where it's like you know, I'mgoing to make a ramp ice cream,
you know, and then maybe I'llcandy it and I'll, you know,
(15:08):
break it up on the top, or, youknow, thinking of that process,
is just another opportunity, youknow, to A challenge yourself.
Chef Madison (15:16):
but also use inventory that you have, or you
know, the world around you, youknow, and I think that's great
well, and and here in berkshirecounty the, the people and the
businesses and the creatives andthe farmers like there's just
such a wealth of like reallytalented folks doing really cool
things.
So beyond us just growing andcooking these vegetables, like
(15:39):
that piece is really important.
It's highlighting everybodythat we can, that's around us
and and telling their as well.
Chef James (15:44):
That's so cool Wow.
Farmer Jamie (15:46):
And that's one of the things that I'll hype up.
Madison now she is excellent atis I will give her you know
this is what I think is going tobe ready at this time, but it
just depends, and because of ourmodel, we don't have to cook to
a menu, so we can be flexibleand she is so adaptable with you
(16:07):
know what is available in amoment where we're finalizing
the menus the day.
Chef Madison (16:14):
it's hard to do like right.
Chef James (16:16):
You know, even with you know, some resorts I've been
at.
It's like I've I've worked withlocal farms to say, hey, if
there's anything that you'venever grown before you know,
throw it at me.
You know, I know it's, you knowit's.
You don't want to do entirefield of it, but if you want us
to try it here, let's, let's dothat.
I mean, I've, I've sat withthem and basically built out you
(16:39):
know a growing schedule orthese things that they would be
willing to try.
And then we just start gettingthem in.
You know, or working with, likethe head gardener at a resort
where you know, yeah, it's,you're going on that spreadsheet
and you know how that's goingto cycle in.
You know, and they're like allof a sudden you've got hops
coming in and you're like, wait,well, I guess I'll do a hop
(17:02):
salt.
You're constantly thinkingthrough in that relationship and
I think it's important becauseone feeds the other on
creativity.
Farmers are so essential and soimportant, I mean, to me a
farmer is it's like that.
It's essential, we must havethem, we must have you in our
lives for existence.
(17:23):
It's like the honeybee, right?
It's this key component thatpeople don't realize the network
, the spider webbing ofexistence that comes off of your
love of what you do.
And it is love of what you dobecause you don't get a lot and
sometimes you know, or thegovernment doesn't give a lot
(17:45):
either and you're sandwiched,you know, and it's um, there
there's.
You know there's tight months,there's tight months, there's
tight seasons, and you know it's, and it's so interesting
because you're, you're not incontrol, you're dealing with
Mother Nature.
I mean, there's obviously thingsout there that people do to
control, which I can go into forfun, but the special place that
(18:07):
our Berkshire and New Englandfarmers and some of our other
farmers across our great country, where they are spearheading in
their own way, this moment ofwe're going to stand, where we
believe in and keep replicatingthat every season, and it's very
powerful.
You know, and that's where Ithink a chef like I you know we
(18:27):
talked before as thatstoryteller that I have a
responsibility to not only thepeople that I lead but those
that believe in me and provideme with what they're gifted at
doing, and that's a farmer, oranother business, you know,
whether it's South River Miso,you know or or some of these
other companies that you knowthat are amazing in our
community.
I maybe that sounds like a.
(18:47):
You know we put pressure onourselves, but I think it's the
right way to think about it.
You know, and you guys do that,and it's amazing.
Farmer Jamie (18:53):
It's really important.
We can't work in a silo.
You know farms can't work in asilo.
Jackson (18:58):
You know, farms can't work in a silo restaurants can't
work in a silo other.
Farmer Jamie (19:01):
We need like that, what you said, that spider web,
that that intersection model ofus all lifting each other up
yeah, it's so important becausealso that's how community change
happens.
That's how what we think aboutfood system change happens sure
sure we're really big believersin.
You know, where we feelstrongest is the bottom up.
(19:21):
That's where we feel like wefeel our best and most excited
in that work.
And how can we bring everybodyup with us?
Chef James (19:31):
Yeah, yeah, and as you guys are kind of reaching
out to the community, I mean youare I know you're saying you're
selling, you're focused on yourginners Are you like CSA at
some point or kind of pulling?
Farmer Jamie (19:43):
I think it's something, a goal in the future.
We're still figuring outconsistency in growing, and
that's something with CSA.
You really need that diversityand consistency every week.
We're going to do the farmer'smarket this year and sell at Tom
at the farm his store and thencontinue selling to the food
(20:07):
access program at BerkshireGrown and I am going to continue
to learn how to grow as afarmer and build up that
community to have thatmembership and that's the
Berkshire Mobile Farmer's Market.
Chef James (20:19):
They do two programs .
Okay, it's awesome.
Farmer Jamie (20:20):
To have that membership and that's the
Berkshire Mobile Farmers Marketthat they do two programs.
Chef James (20:22):
Okay, is the other the Berkshire Mobile.
Farmer Jamie (20:24):
Market, and then they have another food access
program.
Chef James (20:26):
That's the other one , okay, yeah.
Farmer Jamie (20:27):
But they're actually expanding the mobile
market to Monterey, which isreally exciting.
Jackson (20:31):
Oh, that's awesome.
Farmer Jamie (20:32):
So it will be a hyper local farm for that mobile
market.
Chef James (20:35):
Oh, that's great.
That, oh, that's great, that'sa good pull.
Okay, wow, all right.
Well, when you look at, youknow your farm and are there
like milestones that you'regoing to carry forward into your
new season.
Farmer Jamie (20:49):
I mean, what are your wins and things you're
dealing with?
Chef James (20:50):
Yeah, that's a big question so there's a lot to say
I'll start with the shindigpiece.
Chef Madison (20:55):
Okay, so last season we hosted, as Jamie said,
10 shindigs.
These were the dinners on thefarm.
We also did a couple of dinnersin New York City.
We did a retreat on the farm,oh wow A multi-day retreat,
which was fantastic.
We did a big bash.
We called it just basically aparty on the farm.
We brought in a lot of producersand we did a lot of workshops
(21:18):
and so we got to test a lot ofdifferent things.
So, looking ahead to season two, we know we want to do the
dinners on the farm again,because that was so special and
we really wanted to deepen theworkshop and educational
offerings that we have.
So every Sunday on the farm atthe end of May to as long as
it's warm enough out Septemberprobably, we'll have an
(21:40):
educational standing workshop sothat people can come and
experience a lot of differentthings.
Whether it's Jamie teachingabout farming principles, I can
lead some cooking lessons, or wecan bring in some other experts
from the community.
Chef James (21:53):
Oh, that's so cool.
And actually going into yourfarming practices.
You're a no-till right.
That's right, did I get thatright?
Okay, yeah, can you explainthat a little bit for some of
our listeners that are maybe notaware of exactly?
Farmer Jamie (22:06):
So no-till is a farming principle where you
basically, once the beds arecreated, you do not till the
ground again.
So tilling a lot of peoplethink of tilling and they could
think of like the horse in theplow you know, back in the day
and going through, and that'sobviously one form of it.
But now, tilling is a much moremechanical operation where
(22:30):
you're taking, you know,machinery, and very quickly,
with this very heavy tractorgoing over the land and mixing
up all of the soil and breakingup everything there.
When you're doing that, you'redestroying all the microorganism
communities that were built inthe soil, and another thing
(22:51):
about tilling is that itreleases carbon dioxide into the
atmosphere because, soil holdscarbon Right exactly.
And I'm not trying to hate ontilling, there's lots of
different ways to go aboutfarming.
Chef James (23:06):
Absolutely.
Farmer Jamie (23:07):
But in a way that in the scale that we're at and I
grow with soil health beinglike my shining light, so I'm
thinking about everything thatcould improve soil health.
Chef James (23:20):
Yeah.
Farmer Jamie (23:20):
So a no-till system.
We do a one-time till where we,you know, we get all the grass
out and we build our beds andthen, once those beds are built,
we don't till after that.
So we do other methods ofterminating crops and flipping
crops over.
Chef James (23:35):
Okay.
Farmer Jamie (23:35):
You know, a broad fork becomes our best friend to
break up compaction.
We use a lot of tarping.
We use a lot of mulching.
One of the principles is likeyou don't want the ground to be
uncovered, you want to alwayshave ground cover, whether that
be, cover crop compost mulchbecause when soil is exposed
it's getting dehydrated andimpacting those microorganisms.
Chef James (23:59):
Okay, okay Very cool , okay Very interesting.
Farmer Jamie (24:02):
So that's how we're growing and I really
believe in it.
I think it's really great.
And then, in addition to that,the first farm I worked at, I
learned about the three C's,which are compost crop, rotation
and cover cropping as likeanother guiding light to
incorporate into the farm andI'm always adding as much
(24:25):
compost as I can, growing in away that I'm rotating the crops
to make sure I'm breaking updisease cycles.
Chef James (24:31):
Yeah, monocropping or doing that whole.
Farmer Jamie (24:33):
Yeah, right, right , exactly.
Chef James (24:35):
Yeah, that's rough.
Jackson (24:37):
What were some like ways that you learned about the
soil, like did you read about it?
Or did you learn like, wheredid you learn about that?
Farmer Jamie (24:43):
Both, I mean.
I guess, to go a little bitinto my, my background, I I
didn't grow up on a farm.
The first farm I worked at wasactually Stone Barns in.
Jackson (24:55):
New York I know, I started, I started.
Chef James (24:57):
There you go.
Farmer Jamie (24:58):
Hi and.
I was like oh is every farmlike this?
Chef James (25:02):
Yeah.
Farmer Jamie (25:05):
Um and the farm staff there really took the time
to teach like those three.
C's I mentioned like they.
They stopped and paused andthey said let's really talk
about this, and like just sparkswere going off inside of me.
I was like this is sofascinating, so cool.
I'm a science geek and I lovegrowing food that's amazing,
(25:26):
yeah and then you know, Istudied environmental science in
college and I geared a lot ofwhat I was learning to learning
more about agriculture.
I've read a lot of books, I'velistened to a lot of podcasts,
I've worked on five differentfarms, so I've learned a lot of
methods.
Chef James (25:42):
Oh my Okay.
Farmer Jamie (25:42):
And I've also done Woofing, which is a room and
board exchange program on farms.
Jackson (25:50):
And.
Farmer Jamie (25:50):
I've done a permaculture course, okay, and I
know to get into farming you'vegot to have a lot of tricks up
your sleeves and you've got tobe able what you were talking
about before.
You're not in control.
So how can I have all thesetools in my toolkit, both
figuratively and literally,where I can adapt to what's
(26:14):
going on?
And a lot of that is justcontinuously learning.
So, I'm a lifelong learner,from the farm, from the soil wow
, I really believe that that'sgreat isn't she great?
Chef James (26:25):
yeah, that's a lot of that's a lot of I'm very,
very lucky.
Farmer Jamie (26:30):
I'm very lucky that I was able to really follow
my passion so that's cool, okay, yeah, wow, okay.
Chef James (26:37):
Well, I mean I guess we should culinary-wise, I mean
we're, I mean because this is.
You guys are amazing.
Chef Madison (26:43):
It's really funny, actually, because Jamie didn't
say this, but she was, like,born to be a farmer and she
always tells the story of how,when she was a kid, everybody
would bring their snacks toschool, and you know it'd be
candy bars or whatnot, and she'dbring the cucumber I, I, oh,
that's all I was like yeah I waslike a weird kid like I was,
like I like
Chef James (27:04):
I like my parents didn't have to try hard, they're
like, are you sure?
Yeah, you probably would havebeen the one I was trying to get
a hold of, just because Ineeded to get rid of my vienna
sausages.
Chef Madison (27:14):
Those were so gross, oh well um, but we have
very different upbringings.
So I grew up actually in Utah,in Serbia, and every meal was
great, but it was the drive-thruOkay.
So it was Wendy's, mcdonald's,taco Bell on rotate and then
(27:34):
cereal for breakfast, which weregreat, but I also didn't ever
know how to cook.
We didn't really turn on thestove in my house, and I
eventually discovered in my 20sthat I was lactose intolerant
and all of this food that I waseating was actually causing me a
lot of pain.
And so I started this journeyof why do I hurt?
What's going on.
(27:55):
And once I discovered that, Irealized it's actually hard to
find food that is, you know, notgoing to hurt me.
Chef James (28:03):
Yeah, I have to start cooking Over-processed.
Chef Madison (28:05):
Yes.
So then I started cooking and Igot to a point where I could
only do so much.
I had the three recipes andthat kind of got boring and I
started reading blogs andreading cookbooks.
And you know, you can only goso far.
And so then I very I'm sofortunate I got to go to natural
gourmet institute.
oh, cool in new york city, ohwow, which is a health
(28:27):
supportive culinary school,really fantastic environment and
I learned how to cook forallergies.
I learned how to cook with theseasons, I learned about fresh
produce, I learned about themore color on your plate and all
of these things were just likewow.
(28:47):
It was the most joyful, mostincredible experience I could
have had was my time at thatculinary school.
It just like everything changedfor me, and and so then, from
then on, I was I just have tocook all the time.
Chef James (28:53):
Oh, that's awesome.
Chef Madison (28:54):
Yeah, um.
But then fast forward to thepandemic and and I thought I'd
figured it out I was like oh,just eat, eat, you know,
beautiful vegetables, good foodyeah, you'll be fine and turns
out, it's a lot more complicatedthan that and there's a lot of
work at play outside of that andthe systems that are, you know,
(29:15):
have been long established.
It's food access and and whatyou have the ability to to do
are are really limited and so II was like, if it's this
difficult for so many people,what's going on?
why is this happening?
Who's in charge what?
And discovered this program initaly, where jamie and I met,
(29:35):
and it was um studying foodsystems.
I didn't even know what foodsystems, what that?
Chef James (29:40):
meant.
Chef Madison (29:41):
Like what is the system for food.
So it was all eye-opening andthen speaking with Jamie and me
really saying like it's humanhealth, like how do we find our,
how do we find health for ourbodies, and she was like it
starts at the soil.
Chef James (29:54):
Yep.
Chef Madison (29:55):
Let's do this together.
Chef James (29:56):
Yeah, so interesting and that's an amazing journey,
like I'm so grateful with apodcast because I talked to
amazing people that almost seemlike that they're predestined.
You know, you have this coursethat we're sent on right.
And you know you're broughttogether for a reason and I
think that's really powerful,that's so cool, wow.
So I mean, when you guys are,you know, going along, you're
(30:20):
doing your dinners right now atthe farm.
Do you ever see going to otherlocations, or is it just kind of
like, you know, like pop-ups orwe did two in new york city
last year oh, wow, that's ajourney, that's a journey, yeah,
okay and that actually you knowwhen we started.
Farmer Jamie (30:37):
We want in the partnership piece, we want to
work with partners to bring itto other spaces.
That's definitely, and alsobecause, to be honest, to be in
the farm in this outdoor setting, we really only have two and a
half months to work with.
Yeah, it's still warm enough atnight and, you know, light
enough at night to do it.
So that's definitely.
(30:59):
Oh, we did it at, we did somewe did some practice years.
Yep, we worked with farah atbondu right in new ashford, um,
and then we did a dinner at redshirt farm.
Chef Madison (31:10):
Oh cool, yeah, one of the things that I'm really
proud of in our first season iswe built a completely mobile
kitchen setup so we can goanywhere we need to go as long
as there's electricity and water.
Chef James (31:21):
Electricity and water Like a food trailer.
Chef Madison (31:25):
Not it's bins, but yes, yeah, well, that's awesome
.
Chef James (31:29):
Wow, that's great.
You know it's funny hearing youguys.
Lynn Avon is someone that I'vegotten to know over this last
year or so but she has DandelionForest Farm over there in New
Hampshire and it's just such acool process and hearing you
guys and what Lynn is doing aswell.
It's such an amazing conceptbecause she's doing similar
(31:51):
things.
Jackson (31:51):
Oh great.
Chef James (31:52):
Yeah, I have to.
Maybe I'll give you her numberif you ever want.
Jackson (31:56):
She really is awesome.
Chef James (31:58):
But you know she's doing like sodas and fermenting
and certain things she's doingacorns and stuff too.
I mean, do you guys get into?
I mean it's a half acre you'regrowing on, but do you forage as
well?
Is that something you like to?
Farmer Jamie (32:11):
do yes, my partner actually loves foraging
mushrooms.
Chef James (32:16):
Very cool, oh, okay.
Farmer Jamie (32:18):
He's always in the woods looking for mushrooms
okay, so you guys okay comealong um so ramps and things
like that as well, and Idefinitely you guys have your
spots on those and, like you,feel pretty good yes well, I
mean, I have a pen here if youjust want to write down the
address.
Chef James (32:35):
No, we don't do that .
No, that's, that's awesome.
Farmer Jamie (32:38):
No competition.
Okay, I got to get there first.
Chef James (32:41):
I got to earn my keep.
I get.
It Makes sense.
You know I love foraging tooLike.
Have you heard John Wheeler at?
Farmer Jamie (32:49):
all yes, yeah, of course.
Chef James (32:50):
Yeah, he's great.
He's such a riot but gettingout and you know, getting in the
forest and grabbing thosemushrooms.
Farmer Jamie (33:01):
And we really have like a plethora of them around
here.
Chef James (33:03):
It's a great, great place.
Yeah, yeah, forage, it's huge,um, even chaga.
You know I try to get in thewintertime and try it right, but
, um, so I guess, looking atyour dinners, so you post them
online, I mean, how far out doyou go?
Chef Madison (33:14):
we we're trying to um post even earlier this year
um.
So our goal is in the nextcouple of weeks to finalize our
schedule.
We have a lot of ideas and wekind of have to narrow it down,
actually, and we'll post it toour website and if people sign
up for our mailing list, they'llbe the first to know.
Farmer Jamie (33:32):
So sign up for our mailing list.
Chef James (33:33):
Okay.
Jackson (33:34):
So that's a good.
Farmer Jamie (33:35):
Yeah, and we're at dancing-greenscom Right.
Chef Madison (33:38):
Oh okay, and then, if you're not into the emails,
you can find us on all of thesocial media platforms.
Okay, and we're also announcingthere.
Jackson (33:46):
Oh, awesome.
Okay, Do you guys do your ownsocial media and stuff?
Farmer Jamie (33:50):
Oh, yeah, yes.
Jackson (33:51):
Who does it more?
Wow, it's a joint operation.
Farmer Jamie (33:56):
I would say I take a lot of the content and
Madison does a lot of the umposting Cool.
Jackson (34:02):
Yes, so it's a collab.
Chef Madison (34:03):
We're definitely collaborating, because neither
of us is we.
Farmer Jamie (34:06):
There's a lot of hats you have to wear and
starting a job, yeah, and socialmedia is one we've had to like,
had some we've had to grow into.
Jackson (34:15):
Yeah.
Farmer Jamie (34:15):
Yeah, we're learning a lot.
We just started a TikTok.
Jackson (34:19):
I've got a nice audience there.
Farmer Jamie (34:21):
Yeah.
Chef James (34:22):
All right, cool, yeah.
No, I've had my own journey asa music artist, just like you
always just have to go back towhat you're passionate about.
Chef Madison (34:30):
Yeah.
Jackson (34:31):
It can be.
Yeah, it's just another hat.
Exactly You've got to limityour time doing it, but also do
it enough to bring in newbusiness and stuff, and you have
to just train yourself thatevery activity you have to film.
Chef Madison (34:46):
There's a photo or a video of everything you're
doing.
Jackson (34:48):
It changes, it can be fun, yeah, right.
Chef Madison (34:52):
It gets difficult when I'm in the kitchen, I can't
pick up a phone.
When Jamie's in the field, shecan't pick up a phone.
So when we're together we canhelp fill each other Kind of
knock it out.
Jackson (35:01):
Yeah share that responsibility?
Chef James (35:03):
Yeah, yeah, that's cool.
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Back to the episode.
Is there any like product orproduce like that you grow, that
you really like.
I mean, you're like man that'skind of fun to work with.
I didn't realize I could dosweet and savory or anything
like that.
Chef Madison (36:26):
I mean, I really love husk cherries.
I love them.
I just think, what a geniusplant what you can get out of
the flavors.
You really do get the sweet,savory kind of notes there?
Chef James (36:38):
No, you do.
Farmer Jamie (36:38):
It's really Like the citrusy the cool thing about
it is you can't find it in alot of stores.
No, no.
It's like people don't knowwhat it is.
Chef Madison (36:44):
Because harvesting those is Takes a lot of time.
It's tough, yeah, yeah.
Chef James (37:00):
And so when people see them too.
Yeah, well, it's kind of like amini tomatillo, you know you're
like trying to, you know,unhusk it and then you, it
almost gets that tackiness, likethem too.
Farmer Jamie (37:06):
They're in the same plant family.
Oh, of course, thank you yeah,all right.
Chef James (37:11):
Well, maybe I went up a point or two.
So well, that's cool they're,they're great to use.
Chef Madison (37:16):
Yeah great Jamie's arugula is extra spicy and
delicious.
Jackson (37:20):
Oh really, oh cool Her radicchio varieties are extra
purple and pink.
Chef Madison (37:25):
Oh, you're just good at what you do.
Jackson (37:28):
Yeah, it's so good.
Chef Madison (37:29):
She's growing a lot of edible flowers this
season, which would be reallyfun for me.
A lot of things we can do withfood and beverage, oh, yeah.
I mean I'll actually just listthe whole farm if you, let me.
Chef James (37:42):
I would love that I mean Jack or Jackson.
So do you guys?
Chef Madison (37:45):
do it.
Jackson (37:47):
No, it's actually cool to see this collab because it's
like it's somebody who makesfood, working with a person who
you don't always see that no, no, it's pretty rare, right, right
, it is, it is.
Chef James (38:02):
I mean especially, yeah, absolutely, it is Like
usually you're working with abunch of different people right,
oh yeah, oh yeah, as a chef,I've been blessed with being
here in the Berkshires and Iwould rotate farms in.
You know I would rotate, youknow, and even like with our
seafood or anything you, youknow, and even like with our
(38:26):
seafood or anything you know, weput it up on the board.
You know, this farm is this faraway from the dining room in
that direction.
That's great.
So, like, people tend to likethat a lot, um, you know, and
really you know, and that's whatmy goal will be when I do this
season is to do, um, as manyfarms as I.
It's not easy because they'reall amazing and to be able to
get them in.
And you know cause I did.
You know we've done like meetthe farmer dinner, stuff like
(38:48):
that, but cause it's reallyabout celebrating that farm.
You know whether it's makinghoney and all 10 courses or five
courses.
How do you do that?
If you're going to use those,like with the ground cherries,
or you know how you're going touse those like with the ground
cherries, or you know how areyou going to use that across the
menu, how fun it can be.
You could puree in and makethem into like a fruit roll-up
(39:08):
kind of cool thing like an icecream or topping a piece of
steel head, you know, with abroken relish with that, because
they're amazing or blisteringthem, or anyways.
I'll stop now, no now.
Chef Madison (39:19):
No, it's exciting, it's fun to talk about.
Chef James (39:21):
But these are things like you know.
You look at it and it's likehow many ways can I use arugula?
Farmer Jamie (39:26):
Totally.
Chef James (39:26):
You know, and the other thing about the farms too,
it's depending, I mean, becausesometimes they turn it right
back on their livestock, butlike, if there's seconds, you
know, like I've worked with afarm and said, hey, if you've
got like onions, carrots andcelery that are like banged up
and whatever I'm doing, gallonsof stock, so if you want to sell
me that at a certain number,because and I want to go back to
(39:51):
it, you said that was in thesense I feel we're conditioned
with the perfect carrot, theperfect bell pepper, the, this,
the that, it's all got to beaveraged the length of you know,
and we become kind ofconditioned and spoiled in that
aspect because you know thisproduce is, you know you can
clean it up, trim it down anduse it, but it just doesn't sell
(40:14):
, well, you know.
Farmer Jamie (40:15):
So that's where the seconds kind of you know,
yeah, there's a lot to say aboutthat because, it's a reality
that not everything looks likethis perfect thing.
And who created this concept ofa perfect vegetable, of a
perfect tomato, of a perfectcarrot?
Anyway, A lot of supermarkets.
The produce has to reach acertain criteria to be like
(40:39):
brought into the shelves, whichis a huge problem in itself, but
also the customer is now likewhen the farms say that the
customer won't buy those things.
It's like where you've beenconditioned to expect you know,
a turn up to look like a certain.
Chef James (40:54):
Right, and you also have a.
You have the seconds, or youknow you end up overgrowing
because you deal with pests andweather, and so is that five
percent, ten percent, threepercent overage, and then you
have, you're dealing with whatyou produce, what it looks like.
Is it sellable?
If it's not sellable, it'sturned back to the livestock.
You know composting and all ofthat, but then you know you go
(41:16):
into it and you know my questionis is well, if, if there are
those opportunities you know,could a school use that?
Could there be an opportunityfor someone to network with the
farms and say, hey, you know,maybe we can pull all of these
things together and one regionalschool could be the pilot for
this program.
(41:37):
School could be the pilot forthis program.
And you know the farms are,they're not making their great
retail price that they need, butit's better than nothing, you
know.
Or they use it all for compostand whatever and that works for
them.
But those are just thoughts inmy mind that it's like we are
kind of conditioned and spoiledin our country in some ways.
You know, just like with thechicken breast, you want to go
(42:00):
buy a chicken, a five to five tosix pounder.
I mean that's why they havethose ranges of poundage,
because you're going to get moreaccuracy with you know the
breast size or the protein andthis proportions, but it's still
we're conditioned to that.
Five, six ounce breast thatwere like oh, it's perfect.
Farmer Jamie (42:19):
And something we want to do is because I'm
growing for madison like feetshow people that what they're
eating was a quote-unquote uglyfood, yes, and how it tastes the
same, and if it actually tasteddelicious um and like nothing
happened to them, like I feellike we should push it a step
(42:40):
further and you know farmsshould get paid the same amount
for that food yeah, yeah youknow there's a difference
between something that you knowis moldy and you cut off versus
something that right like acarrot, that is a weird shape, I
feel like carrots.
Chef James (42:55):
You notice it the most because you go to the
grocery store every carrot, yeah, oh yeah, it's like because you
go to the grocery store andevery carrot is like oh yeah,
it's like right, you're at thefarmer's market, dialed in.
I think there's some level ofopportunity to capture something
.
Farmer Jamie (43:05):
Yeah, absolutely, there's like a lot of
opportunities.
Chef James (43:09):
It's work for sure.
Absolutely, it's a lot.
That'd be kind of cool, I don'tknow, I mean.
So there's the ground chairs,anything else I mean?
Farmer Jamie (43:19):
Well, it's hard, because it's an impossible,
because I love every vegetable.
Chef James (43:23):
You have to.
Farmer Jamie (43:24):
So I mean I have deep affinity for certain
vegetables.
Really For example sugar snappeas are my spirit vegetable.
Chef James (43:33):
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Farmer Jamie (43:34):
Because I, you know, I actually was told by an
old farm manager that my spiritvegetable was a sugar snap pea
Because of my energy, and hesaid something about, like you
know, taking the time to growand then, once you, you know,
once you blossom, it's so sweetand so great.
Jackson (43:52):
Oh, that's very cool.
Farmer Jamie (43:54):
And then I took a spirit vegetable quiz a few
months later.
Chef James (43:57):
Okay.
Farmer Jamie (43:58):
And I got sugar snap pea.
Chef Madison (44:00):
Okay, no way.
Sugar snap pea?
Okay, no way.
Undeniable, wow yeah.
Chef James (44:05):
Mine would probably be like, I don't know, like an
heirloom tomato or something.
Chef Madison (44:09):
That's a great one .
Chef James (44:10):
A brandy one.
Farmer Jamie (44:12):
Brandy, one Delicious Absolutely Got me the
quiz man.
Jackson (44:16):
Yeah, I know, I'm on it .
Chef James (44:17):
Yeah Well, you the quiz man.
Yeah, I know I'm on it.
Yeah well, you know it's funnygrowing, even on the indigenous
side, when I had my restaurant,I did 21 of these three sisters
gardens, so you know havingthose, and I did different, you
know, corn varieties and and thesquash and I had a hopi pale
gray which I was surprised grewup here, but they're like
massive, they are huge.
(44:37):
I'm like where you going, buddy, like it.
I had this whole thing, youknow, ready to go and growing,
and you know they kind of gowhere they want to, and you got
to be like, okay, we got to getyour little fingers back on this
way, let's tie you back around,you know, because they'll just
crawl everywhere.
But I couldn't believe the sizeof those.
But anyways, no, that's it,that's great.
Yeah, love it.
Jackson (44:56):
So before, we wrap, just remind us where we can all
connect with you guys.
Chef Madison (45:00):
Oh right, internet yeah, so find us on our website
yep, which is dancing hyphengreenscom and you can go all the
way to the bottom and sign upfor our newsletter, and then you
can also play around on ourpages.
We we talk about when and wherewe're hosting our shindigs.
Um, we talk about our farmingphilosophy.
We have a blog on there withletters from farmer jamie and we
(45:20):
also have a those we admirepage, where we're.
We're kind of highlighting itand shouting out all the the
people that we've worked withand all of those that we just
think are doing really, reallycool oh yeah, um, and then
instagram at dancing greens farmwe're also on facebook and
linkedin at dancing greens farmand we now have a TikTok at
Dancing Greens Farm.
Farmer Jamie (45:40):
That's so great and also come to the farm.
Chef James (45:43):
Yeah, we need to do that.
Farmer Jamie (45:45):
Shoot us in the mail and I really want us to
have not a completely openpolicy but I want people to come
and drop in things.
Chef James (45:58):
I mean, it's like backstage VIP passes.
Farmer Jamie (46:00):
Right.
Chef Madison (46:02):
Really all you have to do is call Farmer
Jamie's cell phone which islisted on our website.
It's listed on our Google Mapsprofile.
Okay, Just call and say whenyou want to come and she'll say
yes and show you around.
Chef James (46:13):
Cool, that's awesome .
I'd love that Field trip.
Farmer Jamie (46:18):
Yes, so this year we'll have our shindig schedule
that's coming out soon, um, andthen we'll have a um, our
workshop schedule, um, and thenalso, if you're interested in a
private, we do private so youcan find that information on our
website.
And when we'll be at the westdock ridge farmer's market and
okay, thank you selling at TomBrazy at the Farm in New
(46:40):
Marlboro his store as well.
Yeah, I think that's everythingso far.
So far, yeah.
Chef James (46:49):
Nice.
Farmer Jamie (46:50):
And if anyone's interested in reaching out to us
about a potential collaborationor anything too, we're always
excited about that.
Chef James (46:56):
Oh, that's great.
Okay, sounds good, all right.
Well, thank you both forjoining us here.
This was awesome, lots ofknowledge, and I look forward to
like stopping by and seeing thepassion, tasting the passion,
all that good stuff.
Chef Madison (47:09):
Tasting the passion.
Thank you all for what you do.
It's awesome Make a t-shirt.
Farmer Jamie (47:15):
Tasting the passion.
There you go, yeah, you go.
Chef James (47:18):
Nice, all right, well, take care, thank you.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, all right, everyone, thatis a wrap.
You can check us out if youlike that.
Subscribe Also the InstagramChef Massey.
Let's keep it simple,chefmasseycom.
Have a good one.
Bye for now.
Hey everyone, welcome to Chef Sense.
I'm your host, chef Massey.
Okay, so today in the studio, Iam so excited we have Jamie and
Madison from Dancing GreensFarm.
I am so excited we have Jamieand Madison from Dancing Greens
Farm.
Now that name in itself that'slike a shot of uber, shot of
vitamin D, like that makes mehappy.
Like even that name alone likepulls you right in, so like
(00:37):
let's hear about it.
This is cool.
Farmer Jamie (00:38):
Yeah, absolutely Well, thank you so much for
having us in.
We're so excited to be here andto be sharing what we're doing.
We're fans of the podcast.
Chef James (00:49):
Thank you so much, I'm grateful.
Farmer Jamie (00:51):
Dancing Greens Farm is a small diversified
vegetable farm in.
Monterey.
We grow and sell our produceand in addition to our produce,
we put on what we call shim digs, which are, by definition,
definition, a full oncelebration.
So we do farm to table dinnersand events where we bring people
(01:13):
in to what we are doing.
Chef James (01:15):
Which is amazing, right, that is so cool, yeah,
okay.
Farmer Jamie (01:20):
And so Madison and I met in studying food systems
in graduate school in Italy.
Chef James (01:26):
Yeah, like I saw that.
How cool is that.
Wow, yeah, so we met on anothercontinent brought together by
food.
Farmer Jamie (01:34):
I really was there because I come from a
background of agriculture andenvironmental science.
Chef James (01:40):
Oh, so, awesome.
Farmer Jamie (01:41):
I'm very motivated by how interconnected
agriculture and climate changeare and all of the you know
systematic problems that arethere with it, and Madison comes
from a culinary background.
Okay, so she's very motivatedby cooking and bringing you know
(02:01):
high quality food to people.
Chef James (02:03):
Yep.
Farmer Jamie (02:04):
And also motivated by good food, helping human
health, basically, and whentalking more and learning more.
Basically, environmental health, the health of the soil and the
organisms living in it, and thehealth of people with what
they're eating.
They're basically the samething, yeah, so we need to
consistently be putting themtogether.
(02:25):
Sure, and that's sort of whatbrought us together.
Chef James (02:28):
That's so cool.
Yeah, wow, yeah, okay.
Farmer Jamie (02:32):
And then we.
So we met there and startedlearning and when we, a few
months into the program, we gotto go to this agriturismo in
Tuscany and literally we were,it sounds sort of fake we were
walking in this beautifulsetting, you know, in between,
(02:55):
in the olive fields, basicallytalking about everything we're
learning, where we came from andour dreams for the future, and
basically we realized like, oh,we have the same dream, the
exact same dream, the exact samedream.
Chef James (03:09):
Okay.
Farmer Jamie (03:10):
Yeah so cool.
Actually, because you mentionedthe name, we have a really fun
story about where the name camefrom.
Chef James (03:16):
Oh cool, that's even better.
Chef Madison (03:19):
So we were actually on this foraging
expedition in Italy, which wasincredible, but it's really cool
group of people, and it was ledby this gentleman who had been
foraging and working with groupsin the area for so many years,
and we were walking through andidentifying plants that are
edible, and then he'd hold oneup, and then he'd hold up
another one that looked exactlythe same and say and this one
(03:40):
will kill you.
Wow'll get your attention, andso we spent this afternoon,
gathering these edible plantsand bringing them back um, and
we were looking at thisbeautiful lake and music started
playing because everybody had,you know, accordions and whatnot
, and this kind of joyfulcelebration broke out.
And as we're about to eat allthe food that we gathered, we
(04:03):
realized nobody brought anyutensils, so we all just started
eating the salad with our handsand dancing with the music and
we were like dancing and greensand and when we were named,
thinking we're like it has to besomething that encapsulates
that experience that we had.
That was just pure joy, justpure joy.
Chef James (04:21):
So that's what we're trying to do.
That is so cool.
Yeah, wow, what a foundation.
So now, how long have you beenin operation?
Farmer Jamie (04:28):
Well, we had been dreaming about it for a long
time but, we legally becameestablished January of last year
.
Jackson (04:37):
Okay 2023.
Farmer Jamie (04:38):
2023.
So we just did our first seasonand we're going into our second
season.
Chef James (04:42):
Okay, oh wow, that's awesome.
First season and we're goinginto our second season.
Okay, oh wow, that's awesome.
So when you look at your, youroperation size, I mean what,
what size is that?
Your, your acreage and whatyou're dealing with?
Farmer Jamie (04:52):
So the growing space is a half an acre, so it's
very small.
We do like hyper-intensivemarket garden style.
Chef James (05:00):
Okay.
Farmer Jamie (05:01):
And since we are doing the shindigs and events,
I'm sort of growing for that.
Chef James (05:05):
Okay, yeah, I would Yep.
Farmer Jamie (05:07):
In demonstrating what we can do on a small scale.
Chef James (05:10):
Okay.
Chef Madison (05:10):
But, in addition to what we're growing for the
shindigs, jamie's also growingfor last year we had a farm
stand this year we'll enter theWest Dockbridge Farmer's Market
on Thursday evenings.
Last year we did a small CSA.
This year we have opportunitiesto expand our growing space,
which Jamie should speak to.
Farmer Jamie (05:28):
Tom Brazy at the farm in Marlboro is letting us
grow some over there.
So we're actually going to getto expand our growing space.
Chef James (05:35):
That's fantastic Okay.
Chef Madison (05:38):
But as somebody who's not a farmer, who's come
into this relationship where Iget to work very closely with a
farmer.
It's really incredible, becausewhen I saw the half acre I
didn't know what could come outof that and when we started
dreaming and picking out seedsat the beginning of last year I
just kind of begged Jamie togive us as much color and
(05:58):
variety and interestingvegetables and herbs and edible
flowers that she could come upwith, and she grew over 160
varieties.
Chef James (06:06):
Really, yes, wow, that's unbelievable.
Thank you, she's really good.
I think when we were dreamingin Italy.
Chef Madison (06:15):
We both talked a big game about what we were
capable of, but we didn'tactually know that we could pull
this off, and I didn't knowthat Jamie was such a fantastic
farmer until we got into it.
Farmer Jamie (06:24):
Wow, that's so awesome.
Thank you, madison's very kind.
Yeah, she's my hype woman.
Yeah, well, that's hey that's,that's a team.
Chef James (06:30):
Absolutely Stick together and do what you love to
do.
Chef Madison (06:33):
Right.
Chef James (06:33):
Okay, wow, very cool .
Chef Madison (06:35):
Can I keep hyping?
Sure, yeah, so.
So last year we we started inJanuary Um, by March Jamie had
completely become the brainchildof what the irrigation system
would be.
She's never done irrigation bythe way.
Designed and built anirrigation system from scratch,
(06:56):
brought in electric, tealed upor cut into the sod because the
space was just a big lawn,essentially Built the hoop house
, built the shed, built anoutdoor kitchen and got plants
in the ground all in threemonths, wow.
Farmer Jamie (07:11):
I had some help, yeah, but yeah it was.
Chef James (07:14):
That's great.
Farmer Jamie (07:15):
We had a goal of what we wanted to get done for,
you know, starting the season.
Chef James (07:19):
Yeah.
Farmer Jamie (07:20):
And that space, you know, had the opportunity to
be transformed.
Chef James (07:25):
Are you doing dinners every?
Is this like every week, like acouple dinners every week, or
is this like full five days?
Farmer Jamie (07:32):
No, so it is more sporadic than that.
We did 10 shindigs last year.
Chef James (07:37):
Okay, they take.
Farmer Jamie (07:39):
You know they're a big lift to put on.
Chef James (07:41):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Farmer Jamie (07:42):
And they're a very special thing to set up the
table and do the outdoor kitchen.
So we did 10 from the month ofJuly to October.
Yeah, wow, very cool and ourshindigs last year.
Chef Madison (07:56):
We got to experiment quite a bit.
So we did, kind of ourquintessential, the kind of the
thing that we realized was themost special.
That actually felt like magicand when I talk about it and
think about it I get goosebumpsbecause it was that cool and
those experiences, thoseshindigs where we would bring
anywhere from 25 to 35 people tothe farm.
(08:16):
If we're on Blue Hill Road,which is just a really
picturesque location already soyou drive in through these, you
know magical trees and you enterthe farm and we have a little
pond next to our growing space.
So you walk over the pond andyou enter the farm and Jamie
greets you and we have a littlebeverage and you get to learn
(08:37):
about how she's growingeverything.
So we do a really immersivefarm tour.
It's a lot of education.
That tour usually lastsanywhere from half an hour to an
hour, depending on how excitedpeople are.
And people tend to be reallyexcited about that.
Chef James (08:50):
Oh sure.
Chef Madison (08:52):
And while Jamie's showing people vegetables and
kind of blowing their mind thata zucchini plant grows this way
and this leaf means this plant,I get to come around with little
bites of the food that we'veactually just harvested that
morning.
Chef James (09:04):
Okay.
Chef Madison (09:06):
And then we all come together and sit at a long
table in the center of the farm.
So you're actually you canstill smell the tomatoes growing
right next to you.
Chef James (09:13):
Oh, I love that.
It's amazing that tacky likeyeah just stays with you once
you touch the leaf?
Farmer Jamie (09:20):
Yeah, definitely the tomatoes.
Jackson (09:22):
You got me yeah, yeah you got me yeah, yeah, wow,
that's.
Chef James (09:26):
So is this like multiple courses, or is it like
family style, or it's?
Chef Madison (09:30):
it is a lot of courses because okay because
jamie is growing.
I said 160 varieties, so somuch, yeah, deliciousness.
That is really hard for me, assomebody who really likes to
cook, to to limit myself.
So we're we're kind of doinganywhere from eight to 10
courses.
We're doing family style oh fun.
And the reason we do familystyle is, one, it's less waste,
(09:52):
which is really important to us.
But two, it's more communal andmore exciting and you have to
talk to the person next to you.
And it kind of creates thatcommunity vibe, so it's a really
joyful atmosphere.
And then at the end of our 10courses the most fun I've had is
actually trying to figure outhow to put vegetables into
dessert.
(10:12):
So I do a lot of that.
Chef James (10:16):
That's pretty cool.
What are some?
Jackson (10:18):
desserts.
Oh, there you go, vegetabledesserts.
Chef Madison (10:22):
I think the favorite last year was maybe
fennel cake.
Chef James (10:26):
Oh.
Chef Madison (10:26):
So doing a fennel honey syrup, kind of drenching
this fennel cake, and so it justis like fennel is so sweet and
delicious.
Chef James (10:35):
It is.
That's a great idea.
Chef Madison (10:37):
And some people think they hate fennel.
And then they try the cake andthey're like oh no, no, I love
fennel.
This is amazing.
Chef James (10:42):
That's great try the cake and they're like oh no, no
, I love that.
Chef Madison (10:44):
This is amazing, that's great.
And then we did a lot with huskcherries and jams and pavlovas
and fun things like that.
Chef James (10:50):
Okay, wow, you are really busy with that.
Farmer Jamie (10:54):
And also, in addition, we partner a lot with
people.
That's a huge tenet to.
What we want to do iscollaborations and community
building and partners, and ofcourse, we're only growing
vegetables, so by having thesedinners we're able to feature
other farms and other productsthat we really admire and are
doing really good work that'sgreat.
Chef James (11:16):
Wow, that's busy yes , busy gee, so I I would imagine
this is like plant forward,obviously.
Chef Madison (11:24):
Is it vegetarian?
No, okay.
Chef James (11:27):
So it's like almost like that Mediterranean diet
where you're vegetable forwardbut and accentuating with like
quality proteins and preparationon that Exactly.
Chef Madison (11:37):
And one of the things that we care a lot about.
Actually, I'm lactoseintolerant.
Jackson (11:41):
Oh boy.
Farmer Jamie (11:41):
Jamie's a vegetarian.
Chef Madison (11:43):
We have people in our lives that are celiac or
that have a nut allergy.
Somebody we care a lot aboutactually hates cilantro.
Chef James (11:52):
So you know people come with a lot of different
preferences and allergies.
Yes, there's a lot.
Chef Madison (11:57):
There's a lot of that and one of the things we
found when we've been going tofarms to eat or doing these kind
of farm-to-table style dinnersthat it's actually really
difficult for everybody at thetable to feel taken care of and
for all of those allergies to beaccommodated.
So we do that.
It's really important to us.
So we send out a survey before.
So we know, exactly what peopleare coming with, and then we
(12:19):
cater to all of the diets andmake sure that nobody feels
uncomfortable or awkward orunsafe.
You know they have it all, butwhat that means is that
vegetables tend to have frontand center at the table, because
so many people can eat so manyvegetables.
Chef James (12:34):
Right, okay, that's pretty awesome, you know,
looking at.
Are there like themes that youdo for each dinner or you just
kind of?
Farmer Jamie (12:43):
We did a lot of veggie puns last year oh, you
know, cool, those are great totheme our dinners um so.
But this year we sort of wantto focus more on bigger themes
like theme of circularity okay,um and theming like using waste
and things like that oh greatidea so we like to slip in bits
(13:06):
of education in like a joyfulexperience.
So I'm very aware of how a lotof farming spaces can feel
preachy or like you're coming toa lecture, and we don't want it
to feel like that.
We want it to feel like you'recoming to have this really fun
time on a farm and eat reallywell and then you're learning
(13:30):
something as well, like you hadno idea that you could save.
You know the carrot tops andmake a pasta oh yeah, that's a
great idea.
Sure, sure, right, so right, um,that's a big part of what we
want to do in, you know, oureducation to feel immersive and
joyful.
See, and that's you big part ofwhat we want to do in, you know
, our education to feelimmersive and joyful.
Chef James (13:47):
See, and that's you know, I think, especially today,
I mean as chefs and as farmers,you know we have a great
responsibility to the land.
It starts with the land, itstarts with the animals, the
husbandry, like how that goes,because you taste a difference.
Farmer Jamie (14:03):
Absolutely.
Chef James (14:04):
And it's you know it's my opinion, but it's the
right thing to do.
But you know it goes such along way because it's such a
true story and journey thatyou're putting forward.
It's beautiful to see that moreand more today.
You know, especially with youknow the work that you guys are
all doing and setting theexample.
It's great, so wow.
Farmer Jamie (14:23):
We love the storytelling piece of it.
Yeah, to like give everyvegetable their own stories in
addition to like our stories orhow we came, how you know we got
started and there's a storywith the season as well.
So, like the obstacles or theyou know, joyful moments that we
experience as it goes, like webelieve in, like threading that
(14:45):
in to our dinners and what we'reputting out there.
Chef James (14:48):
Yeah and I love the idea of like I always like doing
that kind of mind play withsweet and savory.
Not everything 100% goes, but Ithink mastering that skill set
where it's like you know, I'mgoing to make a ramp ice cream,
you know, and then maybe I'llcandy it and I'll, you know,
(15:08):
break it up on the top, or, youknow, thinking of that process,
is just another opportunity, youknow, to A challenge yourself.
Chef Madison (15:16):
but also use inventory that you have, or you
know, the world around you, youknow, and I think that's great
well, and and here in berkshirecounty the, the people and the
businesses and the creatives andthe farmers like there's just
such a wealth of like reallytalented folks doing really cool
things.
So beyond us just growing andcooking these vegetables, like
(15:39):
that piece is really important.
It's highlighting everybodythat we can, that's around us
and and telling their as well.
Chef James (15:44):
That's so cool Wow.
Farmer Jamie (15:46):
And that's one of the things that I'll hype up.
Madison now she is excellent atis I will give her you know
this is what I think is going tobe ready at this time, but it
just depends, and because of ourmodel, we don't have to cook to
a menu, so we can be flexibleand she is so adaptable with you
(16:07):
know what is available in amoment where we're finalizing
the menus the day.
Chef Madison (16:14):
it's hard to do like right.
Chef James (16:16):
You know, even with you know, some resorts I've been
at.
It's like I've I've worked withlocal farms to say, hey, if
there's anything that you'venever grown before you know,
throw it at me.
You know, I know it's, you knowit's.
You don't want to do entirefield of it, but if you want us
to try it here, let's, let's dothat.
I mean, I've, I've sat withthem and basically built out you
(16:39):
know a growing schedule orthese things that they would be
willing to try.
And then we just start gettingthem in.
You know, or working with, likethe head gardener at a resort
where you know, yeah, it's,you're going on that spreadsheet
and you know how that's goingto cycle in.
You know, and they're like allof a sudden you've got hops
coming in and you're like, wait,well, I guess I'll do a hop
(17:02):
salt.
You're constantly thinkingthrough in that relationship and
I think it's important becauseone feeds the other on
creativity.
Farmers are so essential and soimportant, I mean, to me a
farmer is it's like that.
It's essential, we must havethem, we must have you in our
lives for existence.
(17:23):
It's like the honeybee, right?
It's this key component thatpeople don't realize the network
, the spider webbing ofexistence that comes off of your
love of what you do.
And it is love of what you dobecause you don't get a lot and
sometimes you know, or thegovernment doesn't give a lot
(17:45):
either and you're sandwiched,you know, and it's um, there
there's.
You know there's tight months,there's tight months, there's
tight seasons, and you know it's, and it's so interesting
because you're, you're not incontrol, you're dealing with
Mother Nature.
I mean, there's obviously thingsout there that people do to
control, which I can go into forfun, but the special place that
(18:07):
our Berkshire and New Englandfarmers and some of our other
farmers across our great country, where they are spearheading in
their own way, this moment ofwe're going to stand, where we
believe in and keep replicatingthat every season, and it's very
powerful.
You know, and that's where Ithink a chef like I you know we
(18:27):
talked before as thatstoryteller that I have a
responsibility to not only thepeople that I lead but those
that believe in me and provideme with what they're gifted at
doing, and that's a farmer, oranother business, you know,
whether it's South River Miso,you know or or some of these
other companies that you knowthat are amazing in our
community.
I maybe that sounds like a.
(18:47):
You know we put pressure onourselves, but I think it's the
right way to think about it.
You know, and you guys do that,and it's amazing.
Farmer Jamie (18:53):
It's really important.
We can't work in a silo.
You know farms can't work in asilo.
Jackson (18:58):
You know, farms can't work in a silo restaurants can't
work in a silo other.
Farmer Jamie (19:01):
We need like that, what you said, that spider web,
that that intersection model ofus all lifting each other up
yeah, it's so important becausealso that's how community change
happens.
That's how what we think aboutfood system change happens sure
sure we're really big believersin.
You know, where we feelstrongest is the bottom up.
(19:21):
That's where we feel like wefeel our best and most excited
in that work.
And how can we bring everybodyup with us?
Chef James (19:31):
Yeah, yeah, and as you guys are kind of reaching
out to the community, I mean youare I know you're saying you're
selling, you're focused on yourginners Are you like CSA at
some point or kind of pulling?
Farmer Jamie (19:43):
I think it's something, a goal in the future.
We're still figuring outconsistency in growing, and
that's something with CSA.
You really need that diversityand consistency every week.
We're going to do the farmer'smarket this year and sell at Tom
at the farm his store and thencontinue selling to the food
(20:07):
access program at BerkshireGrown and I am going to continue
to learn how to grow as afarmer and build up that
community to have thatmembership and that's the
Berkshire Mobile Farmer's Market.
Chef James (20:19):
They do two programs .
Okay, it's awesome.
Farmer Jamie (20:20):
To have that membership and that's the
Berkshire Mobile Farmers Marketthat they do two programs.
Chef James (20:22):
Okay, is the other the Berkshire Mobile.
Farmer Jamie (20:24):
Market, and then they have another food access
program.
Chef James (20:26):
That's the other one , okay, yeah.
Farmer Jamie (20:27):
But they're actually expanding the mobile
market to Monterey, which isreally exciting.
Jackson (20:31):
Oh, that's awesome.
Farmer Jamie (20:32):
So it will be a hyper local farm for that mobile
market.
Chef James (20:35):
Oh, that's great.
That, oh, that's great, that'sa good pull.
Okay, wow, all right.
Well, when you look at, youknow your farm and are there
like milestones that you'regoing to carry forward into your
new season.
Farmer Jamie (20:49):
I mean, what are your wins and things you're
dealing with?
Chef James (20:50):
Yeah, that's a big question so there's a lot to say
I'll start with the shindigpiece.
Chef Madison (20:55):
Okay, so last season we hosted, as Jamie said,
10 shindigs.
These were the dinners on thefarm.
We also did a couple of dinnersin New York City.
We did a retreat on the farm,oh wow A multi-day retreat,
which was fantastic.
We did a big bash.
We called it just basically aparty on the farm.
We brought in a lot of producersand we did a lot of workshops
(21:18):
and so we got to test a lot ofdifferent things.
So, looking ahead to season two, we know we want to do the
dinners on the farm again,because that was so special and
we really wanted to deepen theworkshop and educational
offerings that we have.
So every Sunday on the farm atthe end of May to as long as
it's warm enough out Septemberprobably, we'll have an
(21:40):
educational standing workshop sothat people can come and
experience a lot of differentthings.
Whether it's Jamie teachingabout farming principles, I can
lead some cooking lessons, or wecan bring in some other experts
from the community.
Chef James (21:53):
Oh, that's so cool.
And actually going into yourfarming practices.
You're a no-till right.
That's right, did I get thatright?
Okay, yeah, can you explainthat a little bit for some of
our listeners that are maybe notaware of exactly?
Farmer Jamie (22:06):
So no-till is a farming principle where you
basically, once the beds arecreated, you do not till the
ground again.
So tilling a lot of peoplethink of tilling and they could
think of like the horse in theplow you know, back in the day
and going through, and that'sobviously one form of it.
But now, tilling is a much moremechanical operation where
(22:30):
you're taking, you know,machinery, and very quickly,
with this very heavy tractorgoing over the land and mixing
up all of the soil and breakingup everything there.
When you're doing that, you'redestroying all the microorganism
communities that were built inthe soil, and another thing
(22:51):
about tilling is that itreleases carbon dioxide into the
atmosphere because, soil holdscarbon Right exactly.
And I'm not trying to hate ontilling, there's lots of
different ways to go aboutfarming.
Chef James (23:06):
Absolutely.
Farmer Jamie (23:07):
But in a way that in the scale that we're at and I
grow with soil health beinglike my shining light, so I'm
thinking about everything thatcould improve soil health.
Chef James (23:20):
Yeah.
Farmer Jamie (23:20):
So a no-till system.
We do a one-time till where we,you know, we get all the grass
out and we build our beds andthen, once those beds are built,
we don't till after that.
So we do other methods ofterminating crops and flipping
crops over.
Chef James (23:35):
Okay.
Farmer Jamie (23:35):
You know, a broad fork becomes our best friend to
break up compaction.
We use a lot of tarping.
We use a lot of mulching.
One of the principles is likeyou don't want the ground to be
uncovered, you want to alwayshave ground cover, whether that
be, cover crop compost mulchbecause when soil is exposed
it's getting dehydrated andimpacting those microorganisms.
Chef James (23:59):
Okay, okay Very cool , okay Very interesting.
Farmer Jamie (24:02):
So that's how we're growing and I really
believe in it.
I think it's really great.
And then, in addition to that,the first farm I worked at, I
learned about the three C's,which are compost crop, rotation
and cover cropping as likeanother guiding light to
incorporate into the farm andI'm always adding as much
(24:25):
compost as I can, growing in away that I'm rotating the crops
to make sure I'm breaking updisease cycles.
Chef James (24:31):
Yeah, monocropping or doing that whole.
Farmer Jamie (24:33):
Yeah, right, right , exactly.
Chef James (24:35):
Yeah, that's rough.
Jackson (24:37):
What were some like ways that you learned about the
soil, like did you read about it?
Or did you learn like, wheredid you learn about that?
Farmer Jamie (24:43):
Both, I mean.
I guess, to go a little bitinto my, my background, I I
didn't grow up on a farm.
The first farm I worked at wasactually Stone Barns in.
Jackson (24:55):
New York I know, I started, I started.
Chef James (24:57):
There you go.
Farmer Jamie (24:58):
Hi and.
I was like oh is every farmlike this?
Chef James (25:02):
Yeah.
Farmer Jamie (25:05):
Um and the farm staff there really took the time
to teach like those three.
C's I mentioned like they.
They stopped and paused andthey said let's really talk
about this, and like just sparkswere going off inside of me.
I was like this is sofascinating, so cool.
I'm a science geek and I lovegrowing food that's amazing,
(25:26):
yeah and then you know, Istudied environmental science in
college and I geared a lot ofwhat I was learning to learning
more about agriculture.
I've read a lot of books, I'velistened to a lot of podcasts,
I've worked on five differentfarms, so I've learned a lot of
methods.
Chef James (25:42):
Oh my Okay.
Farmer Jamie (25:42):
And I've also done Woofing, which is a room and
board exchange program on farms.
Jackson (25:50):
And.
Farmer Jamie (25:50):
I've done a permaculture course, okay, and I
know to get into farming you'vegot to have a lot of tricks up
your sleeves and you've got tobe able what you were talking
about before.
You're not in control.
So how can I have all thesetools in my toolkit, both
figuratively and literally,where I can adapt to what's
(26:14):
going on?
And a lot of that is justcontinuously learning.
So, I'm a lifelong learner,from the farm, from the soil wow
, I really believe that that'sgreat isn't she great?
Chef James (26:25):
yeah, that's a lot of that's a lot of I'm very,
very lucky.
Farmer Jamie (26:30):
I'm very lucky that I was able to really follow
my passion so that's cool, okay, yeah, wow, okay.
Chef James (26:37):
Well, I mean I guess we should culinary-wise, I mean
we're, I mean because this is.
You guys are amazing.
Chef Madison (26:43):
It's really funny, actually, because Jamie didn't
say this, but she was, like,born to be a farmer and she
always tells the story of how,when she was a kid, everybody
would bring their snacks toschool, and you know it'd be
candy bars or whatnot, and she'dbring the cucumber I, I, oh,
that's all I was like yeah I waslike a weird kid like I was,
like I like
Chef James (27:04):
I like my parents didn't have to try hard, they're
like, are you sure?
Yeah, you probably would havebeen the one I was trying to get
a hold of, just because Ineeded to get rid of my vienna
sausages.
Chef Madison (27:14):
Those were so gross, oh well um, but we have
very different upbringings.
So I grew up actually in Utah,in Serbia, and every meal was
great, but it was the drive-thruOkay.
So it was Wendy's, mcdonald's,taco Bell on rotate and then
(27:34):
cereal for breakfast, which weregreat, but I also didn't ever
know how to cook.
We didn't really turn on thestove in my house, and I
eventually discovered in my 20sthat I was lactose intolerant
and all of this food that I waseating was actually causing me a
lot of pain.
And so I started this journeyof why do I hurt?
What's going on.
(27:55):
And once I discovered that, Irealized it's actually hard to
find food that is, you know, notgoing to hurt me.
Chef James (28:03):
Yeah, I have to start cooking Over-processed.
Chef Madison (28:05):
Yes.
So then I started cooking and Igot to a point where I could
only do so much.
I had the three recipes andthat kind of got boring and I
started reading blogs andreading cookbooks.
And you know, you can only goso far.
And so then I very I'm sofortunate I got to go to natural
gourmet institute.
oh, cool in new york city, ohwow, which is a health
(28:27):
supportive culinary school,really fantastic environment and
I learned how to cook forallergies.
I learned how to cook with theseasons, I learned about fresh
produce, I learned about themore color on your plate and all
of these things were just likewow.
(28:47):
It was the most joyful, mostincredible experience I could
have had was my time at thatculinary school.
It just like everything changedfor me, and and so then, from
then on, I was I just have tocook all the time.
Chef James (28:53):
Oh, that's awesome.
Chef Madison (28:54):
Yeah, um.
But then fast forward to thepandemic and and I thought I'd
figured it out I was like oh,just eat, eat, you know,
beautiful vegetables, good foodyeah, you'll be fine and turns
out, it's a lot more complicatedthan that and there's a lot of
work at play outside of that andthe systems that are, you know,
(29:15):
have been long established.
It's food access and and whatyou have the ability to to do
are are really limited and so II was like, if it's this
difficult for so many people,what's going on?
why is this happening?
Who's in charge what?
And discovered this program initaly, where jamie and I met,
(29:35):
and it was um studying foodsystems.
I didn't even know what foodsystems, what that?
Chef James (29:40):
meant.
Chef Madison (29:41):
Like what is the system for food.
So it was all eye-opening andthen speaking with Jamie and me
really saying like it's humanhealth, like how do we find our,
how do we find health for ourbodies, and she was like it
starts at the soil.
Chef James (29:54):
Yep.
Chef Madison (29:55):
Let's do this together.
Chef James (29:56):
Yeah, so interesting and that's an amazing journey,
like I'm so grateful with apodcast because I talked to
amazing people that almost seemlike that they're predestined.
You know, you have this coursethat we're sent on right.
And you know you're broughttogether for a reason and I
think that's really powerful,that's so cool, wow.
So I mean, when you guys are,you know, going along, you're
(30:20):
doing your dinners right now atthe farm.
Do you ever see going to otherlocations, or is it just kind of
like, you know, like pop-ups orwe did two in new york city
last year oh, wow, that's ajourney, that's a journey, yeah,
okay and that actually you knowwhen we started.
Farmer Jamie (30:37):
We want in the partnership piece, we want to
work with partners to bring itto other spaces.
That's definitely, and alsobecause, to be honest, to be in
the farm in this outdoor setting, we really only have two and a
half months to work with.
Yeah, it's still warm enough atnight and, you know, light
enough at night to do it.
So that's definitely.
(30:59):
Oh, we did it at, we did somewe did some practice years.
Yep, we worked with farah atbondu right in new ashford, um,
and then we did a dinner at redshirt farm.
Chef Madison (31:10):
Oh cool, yeah, one of the things that I'm really
proud of in our first season iswe built a completely mobile
kitchen setup so we can goanywhere we need to go as long
as there's electricity and water.
Chef James (31:21):
Electricity and water Like a food trailer.
Chef Madison (31:25):
Not it's bins, but yes, yeah, well, that's awesome
.
Chef James (31:29):
Wow, that's great.
You know it's funny hearing youguys.
Lynn Avon is someone that I'vegotten to know over this last
year or so but she has DandelionForest Farm over there in New
Hampshire and it's just such acool process and hearing you
guys and what Lynn is doing aswell.
It's such an amazing conceptbecause she's doing similar
(31:51):
things.
Jackson (31:51):
Oh great.
Chef James (31:52):
Yeah, I have to.
Maybe I'll give you her numberif you ever want.
Jackson (31:56):
She really is awesome.
Chef James (31:58):
But you know she's doing like sodas and fermenting
and certain things she's doingacorns and stuff too.
I mean, do you guys get into?
I mean it's a half acre you'regrowing on, but do you forage as
well?
Is that something you like to?
Farmer Jamie (32:11):
do yes, my partner actually loves foraging
mushrooms.
Chef James (32:16):
Very cool, oh, okay.
Farmer Jamie (32:18):
He's always in the woods looking for mushrooms
okay, so you guys okay comealong um so ramps and things
like that as well, and Idefinitely you guys have your
spots on those and, like you,feel pretty good yes well, I
mean, I have a pen here if youjust want to write down the
address.
Chef James (32:35):
No, we don't do that .
No, that's, that's awesome.
Farmer Jamie (32:38):
No competition.
Okay, I got to get there first.
Chef James (32:41):
I got to earn my keep.
I get.
It Makes sense.
You know I love foraging tooLike.
Have you heard John Wheeler at?
Farmer Jamie (32:49):
all yes, yeah, of course.
Chef James (32:50):
Yeah, he's great.
He's such a riot but gettingout and you know, getting in the
forest and grabbing thosemushrooms.
Farmer Jamie (33:01):
And we really have like a plethora of them around
here.
Chef James (33:03):
It's a great, great place.
Yeah, yeah, forage, it's huge,um, even chaga.
You know I try to get in thewintertime and try it right, but
, um, so I guess, looking atyour dinners, so you post them
online, I mean, how far out doyou go?
Chef Madison (33:14):
we we're trying to um post even earlier this year
um.
So our goal is in the nextcouple of weeks to finalize our
schedule.
We have a lot of ideas and wekind of have to narrow it down,
actually, and we'll post it toour website and if people sign
up for our mailing list, they'llbe the first to know.
Farmer Jamie (33:32):
So sign up for our mailing list.
Chef James (33:33):
Okay.
Jackson (33:34):
So that's a good.
Farmer Jamie (33:35):
Yeah, and we're at dancing-greenscom Right.
Chef Madison (33:38):
Oh okay, and then, if you're not into the emails,
you can find us on all of thesocial media platforms.
Okay, and we're also announcingthere.
Jackson (33:46):
Oh, awesome.
Okay, Do you guys do your ownsocial media and stuff?
Farmer Jamie (33:50):
Oh, yeah, yes.
Jackson (33:51):
Who does it more?
Wow, it's a joint operation.
Farmer Jamie (33:56):
I would say I take a lot of the content and
Madison does a lot of the umposting Cool.
Jackson (34:02):
Yes, so it's a collab.
Chef Madison (34:03):
We're definitely collaborating, because neither
of us is we.
Farmer Jamie (34:06):
There's a lot of hats you have to wear and
starting a job, yeah, and socialmedia is one we've had to like,
had some we've had to grow into.
Jackson (34:15):
Yeah.
Farmer Jamie (34:15):
Yeah, we're learning a lot.
We just started a TikTok.
Jackson (34:19):
I've got a nice audience there.
Farmer Jamie (34:21):
Yeah.
Chef James (34:22):
All right, cool, yeah.
No, I've had my own journey asa music artist, just like you
always just have to go back towhat you're passionate about.
Chef Madison (34:30):
Yeah.
Jackson (34:31):
It can be.
Yeah, it's just another hat.
Exactly You've got to limityour time doing it, but also do
it enough to bring in newbusiness and stuff, and you have
to just train yourself thatevery activity you have to film.
Chef Madison (34:46):
There's a photo or a video of everything you're
doing.
Jackson (34:48):
It changes, it can be fun, yeah, right.
Chef Madison (34:52):
It gets difficult when I'm in the kitchen, I can't
pick up a phone.
When Jamie's in the field, shecan't pick up a phone.
So when we're together we canhelp fill each other Kind of
knock it out.
Jackson (35:01):
Yeah share that responsibility?
Chef James (35:03):
Yeah, yeah, that's cool.
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Back to the episode.
Is there any like product orproduce like that you grow, that
you really like.
I mean, you're like man that'skind of fun to work with.
I didn't realize I could dosweet and savory or anything
like that.
Chef Madison (36:26):
I mean, I really love husk cherries.
I love them.
I just think, what a geniusplant what you can get out of
the flavors.
You really do get the sweet,savory kind of notes there?
Chef James (36:38):
No, you do.
Farmer Jamie (36:38):
It's really Like the citrusy the cool thing about
it is you can't find it in alot of stores.
No, no.
It's like people don't knowwhat it is.
Chef Madison (36:44):
Because harvesting those is Takes a lot of time.
It's tough, yeah, yeah.
Chef James (37:00):
And so when people see them too.
Yeah, well, it's kind of like amini tomatillo, you know you're
like trying to, you know,unhusk it and then you, it
almost gets that tackiness, likethem too.
Farmer Jamie (37:06):
They're in the same plant family.
Oh, of course, thank you yeah,all right.
Chef James (37:11):
Well, maybe I went up a point or two.
So well, that's cool they're,they're great to use.
Chef Madison (37:16):
Yeah great Jamie's arugula is extra spicy and
delicious.
Jackson (37:20):
Oh really, oh cool Her radicchio varieties are extra
purple and pink.
Chef Madison (37:25):
Oh, you're just good at what you do.
Jackson (37:28):
Yeah, it's so good.
Chef Madison (37:29):
She's growing a lot of edible flowers this
season, which would be reallyfun for me.
A lot of things we can do withfood and beverage, oh, yeah.
I mean I'll actually just listthe whole farm if you, let me.
Chef James (37:42):
I would love that I mean Jack or Jackson.
So do you guys?
Chef Madison (37:45):
do it.
Jackson (37:47):
No, it's actually cool to see this collab because it's
like it's somebody who makesfood, working with a person who
you don't always see that no, no, it's pretty rare, right, right
, it is, it is.
Chef James (38:02):
I mean especially, yeah, absolutely, it is Like
usually you're working with abunch of different people right,
oh yeah, oh yeah, as a chef,I've been blessed with being
here in the Berkshires and Iwould rotate farms in.
You know I would rotate, youknow, and even like with our
seafood or anything you, youknow, and even like with our
(38:26):
seafood or anything you know, weput it up on the board.
You know, this farm is this faraway from the dining room in
that direction.
That's great.
So, like, people tend to likethat a lot, um, you know, and
really you know, and that's whatmy goal will be when I do this
season is to do, um, as manyfarms as I.
It's not easy because they'reall amazing and to be able to
get them in.
And you know cause I did.
You know we've done like meetthe farmer dinner, stuff like
(38:48):
that, but cause it's reallyabout celebrating that farm.
You know whether it's makinghoney and all 10 courses or five
courses.
How do you do that?
If you're going to use those,like with the ground cherries,
or you know how you're going touse those like with the ground
cherries, or you know how areyou going to use that across the
menu, how fun it can be.
You could puree in and makethem into like a fruit roll-up
(39:08):
kind of cool thing like an icecream or topping a piece of
steel head, you know, with abroken relish with that, because
they're amazing or blisteringthem, or anyways.
I'll stop now, no now.
Chef Madison (39:19):
No, it's exciting, it's fun to talk about.
Chef James (39:21):
But these are things like you know.
You look at it and it's likehow many ways can I use arugula?
Farmer Jamie (39:26):
Totally.
Chef James (39:26):
You know, and the other thing about the farms too,
it's depending, I mean, becausesometimes they turn it right
back on their livestock, butlike, if there's seconds, you
know, like I've worked with afarm and said, hey, if you've
got like onions, carrots andcelery that are like banged up
and whatever I'm doing, gallonsof stock, so if you want to sell
me that at a certain number,because and I want to go back to
(39:51):
it, you said that was in thesense I feel we're conditioned
with the perfect carrot, theperfect bell pepper, the, this,
the that, it's all got to beaveraged the length of you know,
and we become kind ofconditioned and spoiled in that
aspect because you know thisproduce is, you know you can
clean it up, trim it down anduse it, but it just doesn't sell
(40:14):
, well, you know.
Farmer Jamie (40:15):
So that's where the seconds kind of you know,
yeah, there's a lot to say aboutthat because, it's a reality
that not everything looks likethis perfect thing.
And who created this concept ofa perfect vegetable, of a
perfect tomato, of a perfectcarrot?
Anyway, A lot of supermarkets.
The produce has to reach acertain criteria to be like
(40:39):
brought into the shelves, whichis a huge problem in itself, but
also the customer is now likewhen the farms say that the
customer won't buy those things.
It's like where you've beenconditioned to expect you know,
a turn up to look like a certain.
Chef James (40:54):
Right, and you also have a.
You have the seconds, or youknow you end up overgrowing
because you deal with pests andweather, and so is that five
percent, ten percent, threepercent overage, and then you
have, you're dealing with whatyou produce, what it looks like.
Is it sellable?
If it's not sellable, it'sturned back to the livestock.
You know composting and all ofthat, but then you know you go
(41:16):
into it and you know my questionis is well, if, if there are
those opportunities you know,could a school use that?
Could there be an opportunityfor someone to network with the
farms and say, hey, you know,maybe we can pull all of these
things together and one regionalschool could be the pilot for
this program.
(41:37):
School could be the pilot forthis program.
And you know the farms are,they're not making their great
retail price that they need, butit's better than nothing, you
know.
Or they use it all for compostand whatever and that works for
them.
But those are just thoughts inmy mind that it's like we are
kind of conditioned and spoiledin our country in some ways.
You know, just like with thechicken breast, you want to go
(42:00):
buy a chicken, a five to five tosix pounder.
I mean that's why they havethose ranges of poundage,
because you're going to get moreaccuracy with you know the
breast size or the protein andthis proportions, but it's still
we're conditioned to that.
Five, six ounce breast thatwere like oh, it's perfect.
Farmer Jamie (42:19):
And something we want to do is because I'm
growing for madison like feetshow people that what they're
eating was a quote-unquote uglyfood, yes, and how it tastes the
same, and if it actually tasteddelicious um and like nothing
happened to them, like I feellike we should push it a step
(42:40):
further and you know farmsshould get paid the same amount
for that food yeah, yeah youknow there's a difference
between something that you knowis moldy and you cut off versus
something that right like acarrot, that is a weird shape, I
feel like carrots.
Chef James (42:55):
You notice it the most because you go to the
grocery store every carrot, yeah, oh yeah, it's like because you
go to the grocery store andevery carrot is like oh yeah,
it's like right, you're at thefarmer's market, dialed in.
I think there's some level ofopportunity to capture something
.
Farmer Jamie (43:05):
Yeah, absolutely, there's like a lot of
opportunities.
Chef James (43:09):
It's work for sure.
Absolutely, it's a lot.
That'd be kind of cool, I don'tknow, I mean.
So there's the ground chairs,anything else I mean?
Farmer Jamie (43:19):
Well, it's hard, because it's an impossible,
because I love every vegetable.
Chef James (43:23):
You have to.
Farmer Jamie (43:24):
So I mean I have deep affinity for certain
vegetables.
Really For example sugar snappeas are my spirit vegetable.
Chef James (43:33):
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Farmer Jamie (43:34):
Because I, you know, I actually was told by an
old farm manager that my spiritvegetable was a sugar snap pea
Because of my energy, and hesaid something about, like you
know, taking the time to growand then, once you, you know,
once you blossom, it's so sweetand so great.
Jackson (43:52):
Oh, that's very cool.
Farmer Jamie (43:54):
And then I took a spirit vegetable quiz a few
months later.
Chef James (43:57):
Okay.
Farmer Jamie (43:58):
And I got sugar snap pea.
Chef Madison (44:00):
Okay, no way.
Sugar snap pea?
Okay, no way.
Undeniable, wow yeah.
Chef James (44:05):
Mine would probably be like, I don't know, like an
heirloom tomato or something.
Chef Madison (44:09):
That's a great one .
Chef James (44:10):
A brandy one.
Farmer Jamie (44:12):
Brandy, one Delicious Absolutely Got me the
quiz man.
Jackson (44:16):
Yeah, I know, I'm on it .
Chef James (44:17):
Yeah Well, you the quiz man.
Yeah, I know I'm on it.
Yeah well, you know it's funnygrowing, even on the indigenous
side, when I had my restaurant,I did 21 of these three sisters
gardens, so you know havingthose, and I did different, you
know, corn varieties and and thesquash and I had a hopi pale
gray which I was surprised grewup here, but they're like
massive, they are huge.
(44:37):
I'm like where you going, buddy, like it.
I had this whole thing, youknow, ready to go and growing,
and you know they kind of gowhere they want to, and you got
to be like, okay, we got to getyour little fingers back on this
way, let's tie you back around,you know, because they'll just
crawl everywhere.
But I couldn't believe the sizeof those.
But anyways, no, that's it,that's great.
Yeah, love it.
Jackson (44:56):
So before, we wrap, just remind us where we can all
connect with you guys.
Chef Madison (45:00):
Oh right, internet yeah, so find us on our website
yep, which is dancing hyphengreenscom and you can go all the
way to the bottom and sign upfor our newsletter, and then you
can also play around on ourpages.
We we talk about when and wherewe're hosting our shindigs.
Um, we talk about our farmingphilosophy.
We have a blog on there withletters from farmer jamie and we
(45:20):
also have a those we admirepage, where we're.
We're kind of highlighting itand shouting out all the the
people that we've worked withand all of those that we just
think are doing really, reallycool oh yeah, um, and then
instagram at dancing greens farmwe're also on facebook and
linkedin at dancing greens farmand we now have a TikTok at
Dancing Greens Farm.
Farmer Jamie (45:40):
That's so great and also come to the farm.
Chef James (45:43):
Yeah, we need to do that.
Farmer Jamie (45:45):
Shoot us in the mail and I really want us to
have not a completely openpolicy but I want people to come
and drop in things.
Chef James (45:58):
I mean, it's like backstage VIP passes.
Farmer Jamie (46:00):
Right.
Chef Madison (46:02):
Really all you have to do is call Farmer
Jamie's cell phone which islisted on our website.
It's listed on our Google Mapsprofile.
Okay, Just call and say whenyou want to come and she'll say
yes and show you around.
Chef James (46:13):
Cool, that's awesome .
I'd love that Field trip.
Farmer Jamie (46:18):
Yes, so this year we'll have our shindig schedule
that's coming out soon, um, andthen we'll have a um, our
workshop schedule, um, and thenalso, if you're interested in a
private, we do private so youcan find that information on our
website.
And when we'll be at the westdock ridge farmer's market and
okay, thank you selling at TomBrazy at the Farm in New
(46:40):
Marlboro his store as well.
Yeah, I think that's everythingso far.
So far, yeah.
Chef James (46:49):
Nice.
Farmer Jamie (46:50):
And if anyone's interested in reaching out to us
about a potential collaborationor anything too, we're always
excited about that.
Chef James (46:56):
Oh, that's great.
Okay, sounds good, all right.
Well, thank you both forjoining us here.
This was awesome, lots ofknowledge, and I look forward to
like stopping by and seeing thepassion, tasting the passion,
all that good stuff.
Chef Madison (47:09):
Tasting the passion.
Thank you all for what you do.
It's awesome Make a t-shirt.
Farmer Jamie (47:15):
Tasting the passion.
There you go, yeah, you go.
Chef James (47:18):
Nice, all right, well, take care, thank you.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, all right, everyone, thatis a wrap.
You can check us out if youlike that.
Subscribe Also the InstagramChef Massey.
Let's keep it simple,chefmasseycom.
Have a good one.
Bye for now.
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