March 16, 2023 • 54 mins
This week I have chef Pailin Chongchitnant, host of the YouTube channel Pailin’s Kitchen, and author of the companion website Hot Thai Kitchen. She recently released her 2nd cookbook, Sabai: 100 Simple Thai Recipes for Any Day of the Week.
This episode is a primer on Thai food and cooking. She dispels some Thai food myths, and shares her top five items for stocking a Thai pantry at home. We discuss why she was compelled to write another cookbook, and she shares how she grew her YouTube channel to over 1.5 million subscribers and almost 170 million views.
PAILIN CHONGCHITNANT
Pailin’s Kitchen on YouTube
Buy the Cookbook Sabai: 100 Simple Thai Recipes For Any Day of the Week
Hot Thai Kitchen on Facebook
Video: Thai Chef Takes You Grocery Shopping
Video: How to Eat Thai Food Correctly
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chris Spear (00:00):
A quick internet search for Thai peanut sauce
will yield dozens if nothundreds of results. Most of
them call for peanut butter. Butdid you know they don't even
have peanut butter and Thailand.
More traditionally, they'd bemaking satay sauce with crushed
peanuts in it. It might havebeen Pi Day on Tuesday, but
we're celebrating all weekbecause chef Palin of Hot Thai
Kitchen released her newcookbook syllabi on Tuesday, and
(00:22):
she's here to talk about it.
This is Chris spear. And you'relistening to Chefs Without
Restaurants, the show where Ispeak with culinary
entrepreneurs and people workingin the food and beverage
industry outside of atraditional restaurant setting.
So this is a special Thursdayedition of the podcast. I didn't
get it out yesterday. Did youmiss me? If you can't tell by my
(00:43):
lovely hoarse voice, I'mbattling a bout of bronchitis.
So I've been a bit under theweather and I'm going to keep
this intro short and sweet thisweek. This week, I have Chef
Palin host of the YouTubechannel pilots kitchen and
author of The companion websiteHot Thai kitchen. She recently
released her second cookbooksyllabi 100 Simple Thai recipes
(01:05):
for any day of the week. Thisepisode is really a primer on
Thai food and cooking. Shedispels some of the Thai food
myths and shares her top fiveitems for stocking a Thai pantry
at home. We discuss why she wascompelled to write another
cookbook. And she shares how shegrew her YouTube channel to over
one and a half millionsubscribers and almost 170
million views overall. That isquite impressive. And I know a
(01:29):
lot of you out there arecreating content and would love
to know how to do that. No plugsthis week, no ads this week,
well, maybe a plug. If you lovethe show, tell people about it.
Just post the show and say hey,I'm listening this podcast Chefs
Without Restaurants, I reallylove it, share it on Instagram,
Facebook, whatever. But otherthan that, that's all I got. I'm
(01:49):
gonna go have a cup of hot teaand rest my throat because I'm
losing my voice. As always, Ireally appreciate you taking the
time to listen to the show. Ihope you have an amazing rest of
the day week whenever you'relistening to this, and I'll see
you around.
Hey, hi. Welcome to the show.
Thanks so much for coming on.
Pailin (02:05):
Thank you for having me.
Chris Spear (02:07):
I'm really excited to talk to you today. I love
Thai food and cooking. I'm notfantastic at Thai cooking. So
maybe I will pick up somepersonal tips. That's a little
selfish part of me. It's one ofthe nice things about having
guests on the show is I get tokind of ask them all the
questions that I want to know.
Pailin (02:23):
Yeah, ask away. I love nerding out over Thai food.
Chris Spear (02:28):
So you have a website with lots of recipes on
it a YouTube channel that haslike 160 something million
views, and a new cookbook, whichis your second one syllabi,
which will be out on March 14.
So it sounds like we're going tobe it sounds like we're gonna be
talking about some Thai food andcooking today. I can assume that
right?
Pailin (02:48):
Yes, yes.
Chris Spear (02:50):
Well, I would love to start with your backstory,
especially as it relates to foodand cooking, like how you grew
up was food, something that youwere really interested in when
you were younger, and then howyou kind of brought it into more
of a content creation setting,if you will, you know, videos
and books and such.
Pailin (03:06):
Right. So I grew up in in Thailand, and I had always
been really interested in foodand cooking just I was naturally
drawn towards whatever washappening in the kitchen. So I
learned how to cook at a veryyoung age. But then as a
teenager, I was living inThailand still and Thailand
(03:27):
started importing cooking showsfrom overseas. So I was watching
Jamie Oliver and Nigella Lawsonand mostly British and
Australian shows. And I fell inlove with that. Like it just
looked to me like the perfectjob. As a kid. I love to cook
and I always love to present Ialways enjoy public public
(03:50):
speaking. And it was the perfectcombination of the two. And I
thought that's it. That is whatI want to be when I grow up. I
am going to be on TV and showpeople how to cook. Not
realizing Of course, that youdon't just go apply for a job
like that. And so I ended upjust pursuing a career as a
(04:11):
chef. And hope that one daythere'll be some sort of a show
opportunity down the line. Andthen when YouTube came along, it
was like, well, you no longerhave to wait for anyone to
discover you. You can have ashow if you want to show and I
did it.
Chris Spear (04:30):
Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's so cool. I mean, I search
YouTube for everything. I'malways appreciative of the
people who put on the mostmundane things like the car door
jams, and I just like Googlelike my make and model and like
how to fix it and someone hasthis whole video of like how to
take your car door apart.
YouTube is amazing. So how didyou learn to cook? I was taught
by my nanny, my mother didn'tcook actually, she still doesn't
Unknown (04:59):
know
Pailin (05:00):
And then I was inspired by my grandmother's both of whom
didn't live with us. Butwhenever they came to visit,
they would just cook. All theydid was cook. And so I was
inspired by them. I learned fromthem a little bit. But I really
learned by going to culinaryschool, I did go to culinary
school, and I learned on the joband restaurants, I worked in
(05:20):
catering and all that stuff. Sowhat's the time frame of that?
Like, when did you start yourYouTube channel, I guess I
started the YouTube channelwhile I was in culinary school.
That's a good plan, like get it,get it going while you're
learning still. Exactly. And Ihad so much more time because as
you know, once you're in therestaurant industry, you no
(05:41):
longer have time to be startinga YouTube channel on this 100%.
And so I had time and I wasexcited. I was learning so much.
Culinary School was the besttime of my life. And I had all
this energy that like reallyneeded to come out in some way,
shape, or form. So it wasperfect. And then I kept it up.
(06:03):
Even as I was working already inrestaurants. I kept it up, but
not that much, you know, but Idid it as a hobby whenever I had
time. And I never really stoppedeven though I wasn't posting all
that often. Was that the firstthing you did, and the website
came after? Because your websiteis also very comprehensive.
Yeah, so the YouTube was thefirst step there. Yeah, the
(06:23):
YouTube was the first stepthere. And I and I really should
have started the website sooner,but I really didn't, I didn't
realize the potential and theutility of a website back then.
And then, at some point, Ineeded a place to have written
recipe somewhere. And my firstvideos, I had no recipe, so I
(06:44):
put all the ingredients andtheir amounts in the video. But
if you were to make it, you'dhave to like take notes.
Which, you know, I didn't thinkabout it at the time, but I
thought it was fine. But thenpeople were like, You should
have these written downsomewhere. So I was like, Okay,
I need a place to put these downsomewhere. And so I started
writing them down on thewebsite. And then over time, as
(07:09):
I realized how much you know,more comprehensive a recipe post
can be rather than just therecipe, you can give background
stories and tips and likesubstitutions and all that. So I
started writing morecomprehensive posts. So the
website is what it is today. Areall your original videos still
there? Because I know when youfirst start creating content,
(07:31):
sometimes it's a little cringeworthy, and you go back like and
you want to delete Have youdeleted or as all as all your
stuffs still there. It's allstill there, except for maybe
the first few that are just tooembarrassing. I can't handle
they're still up there. But it'sprivate it because I you know, I
(07:51):
want to have it there just formyself. But the vast majority, I
think except for the first twoor three only everything else is
still there. Having a podcastwas the same like I you know, I
don't have a background in this.
I'm a chef as well. And, youknow, people say like, oh, I
started listening your podcast,I started from the beginning.
I'm like, don't start from thebeginning, like start from now,
and work back because you'regonna hit a period where you're
like, the audio quality isn'tgreat. The interviewing isn't
(08:14):
great. But I still have mypodcast episodes up there. And I
just hope that people realizethat the quality has improved
drastically in the years thatI've been doing this. Yeah. And
I think it's interesting for theviewers to when they watch your
first one or see, listen to yourfirst one. And they watch it now
and they see you well, they havereally improved. And I think
that's, that's great for theviewers. So your videos and
(08:34):
content in general seem likeyou're demystifying Thai cooking
and kind of making it seem moreapproachable, right is, is that
why you just kind of wanted tohelp people get a handle on how
to do this. So when I came toNorth America, I came to Canada
first and then I moved to the USfor a few years. But during that
(08:55):
time, I realized what a mysteryThai food is to most people,
like most people have a Thairestaurant that they go to.
But they wouldn't know where tobegin to make any of those
things, what the ingredientswere to go get the ingredients
(09:16):
what to do with them, how tochoose them. And the more I
talked to people, the more Irealized, like, people really
have no idea and I felt like assomebody who's who's, who loves
to teach and who love to cook.
It just felt to me like it wassomething I needed to do to
clarify, just to put it out intothe world. And not to mention
when I came here, I startedgoing to Thai restaurants. And I
(09:40):
realized that the food that theywere serving in restaurants
weren't like food that they wereserving at home in Thailand.
They had been modified andchanged and like to make it
more. I don't know what the termis to make it more I guess,
familiar to the Americancustomers or nothing
was too weird or too bizarreand, and then I thought, people
(10:03):
also don't really know what realThai food is, if this is their
reference point, this isn'treally what we eat at home. So I
felt like it was a personalmission to show people what Thai
food is really like. And I'mhappy to say that I think there
are more restaurants that havehave changed that over the
years, like back then I couldn'tfind really any food that I
(10:25):
would say, oh, yeah, this isexactly like home. But now there
are more and more restaurantsthat are becoming a little bit
more bold and like, Okay, well,let's give them the real stuff.
And see what people think. Andpeople love it. They always love
it. I think, you know, I thinksometimes we underestimate the,
the American palate, right? Likethey can really a lot of
(10:47):
adventurous eaters, nowadays,they want the real stuff, they
want the authentic stuff, andpeople can handle it. I'm always
surprised that kinds of thingspeople are making and loving.
Absolutely. And I thinkauthentic is kind of a tricky
term. But I do think that wehave Americanized, you know, a
great example is Chinese food. Idon't think people ever really
had like real Chinese food, theylike Chinese American food, but
(11:11):
like growing up, the stuff thatI ate going to Chinese
restaurants, I don't think iswhat you would eat in a
traditional Chinese home. Andyou just see that across the
board with all these differentcuisines. But you know, people,
they impose that on themselvesimpose that on their children,
my wife and I, we have kids, andwe were traveling to the UK last
fall. And I remember askingpeople like, oh, where's a good,
(11:31):
you know, restaurant for this orthat? And they said, Well,
you've got kids, like, there's aShake Shack over there. It's
like, I came here from like, theUS, like, I'm not going to Shake
Shack, like my kids are 10.
Like, they can handle real foodand authentic food. Like, I want
to go get that and that, youknow, but I think sometimes we
kind of put that on people like,Oh, they're not gonna like the
(11:53):
real Thai food or cooking. Yes.
And I sympathize with the Thairestaurant owners, and I don't
criticize them at all. Becausewhen they first when Thai people
first came, there were very,very few things that they were
able to do for a living becausethey didn't speak English. And
opening a Thai restaurant wasone of the obvious things, okay,
we know this stuff. But theseweren't chefs who are
(12:16):
necessarily like passionateabout food, their mission wasn't
to spread the word about Thaicuisine, they were just trying
to make a living. And theydidn't have all the ingredients
that they needed. So they haveto make substitutions and all of
that, and they were just tryingto make it work. And, and then
it just kind of stuck, right.
(12:39):
Like, even though now we havemore adventurous clientele, we
have all these ingredients thatare available. But the tradition
is that well, this is the waywe've been making peptides all
these years. And people like it,let's just stick with it. So
there's a little bit of like astickiness to that. Which is why
I think it takes a newgeneration of chefs to really
(13:01):
like make that leap. But I, youknow, I don't want to sound like
I'm criticizing Thai restaurantsthat aren't serving traditional
food, I totally understand wherethey're coming from. And it's
totally sensible. But I thinkthere's room now to go the other
direction as well. Yeah, andsome of those dishes are great,
and they become their own thing.
And the same way that we have aItalian American, you know, we
have these very, like pasta, redsauce joints. And that's not
(13:24):
maybe how it was done in Italy,but it's become such a part of
our culture that it becomes itsown cuisine, you know?
Chris Spear (13:32):
How do you decide what videos you're going to do?
And when because I know you havea lot of very, some are very
basic, like how to best cookrice, how to buy a rice cooker,
versus getting into like areally in depth recipe. Did you
kind of have like, a bullet listof like, these are the ones I
really think are important toapproach or is it based on
(13:53):
feedback, like people saying,hey, I really don't know how to
cook rice.
Pailin (13:57):
So a little bit of both in the very beginning, I did all
the famous dishes, like I didall the dishes that people would
be looking for. So the greencurry and the papaya salad and
tomyam soup and all of thatstuff. But once that list had
been depleted, then I went intoa I'm going to make whatever I
(14:17):
like. So there was a period ofthat just whatever I like
whatever food that I like,because I felt that you know,
I'm a Thai person. If I likethis, then this is good enough
for the public. You know, thisis exactly the kind of thing I
want to show people, interestingdishes you've never seen before.
But hey, this is Thai food. Andthen as the audience grew, I
(14:38):
started getting a lot ofquestions. Then they started
making videos that answeredthose questions like ingredient
deep dives about coconut milk,how to cook rice, which is
something that as a Thai personyou thought was very basic and
that you did not need to explainto people I was wrong about that
you do need to explain to people
Chris Spear (15:00):
And it's actually a lot more complicated than you've
been getting. I will just say Ididn't grow up eating rice at
all, like ever. I grew up inMassachusetts, like, I don't
remember we're a potatoesfamily. I have like never in my
life like rinsed rice washed itsoaked it, any of that stuff.
(15:20):
And you know, now it's likewhether you're looking at a
Mexican recipe or a Filipino ora Thai, there's all these things
about rinsing your rice soakingyour rice. And it's just funny
because, again, I'm sure youprobably expected everyone knew
to do that. I don't think I'verinsed my rice until I was like
probably almost 40 years old.
Wow. See, like, all these thingsI'm learning. And it's the same
way. Like if you asked me how tocook spaghetti, you know, 20
(15:42):
years ago, I'd be like, I don'tknow. It's just there's no
instructions on the bag. Formost of that, you know, just
says take one cup of rice andadd two cups of water and bring
to a simmer. Like it doesn'ttalk about the process involved.
And packaging instructions arethe worst, especially apt for
Asian ingredients. Do notbelieve them look up a reliable
(16:02):
source on the internet. I haveseen so many just I don't know
if like they just think theyjust need to write something to
have something there. Nobodyever tested these instructions.
It's like, No, I find the waterto Rice ratio is so drastically
different on all of them. Andnot just with whether it's like
a long grain short grainJasmine. But just like in
(16:25):
general, it could be the sametype with different brands. It's
like am I using one and a halfcups water to one cup rice or
two cups water. And I think youjust have to find a brand that
you know you like and works andthen figure that out and then
just stick to it. That's kind ofwhat I like to do. And your
preference to like some peoplelike wetter rice, some people
like dry or rice. So that issomething that you'll have to
(16:46):
adjust as well. And a lot ofpeople don't realize that like
they will make rice and they'relike, your rice is so dry. And
they don't realize that the ricethat they like is really wet by
other people's standards. Youknow? What are some common
misconceptions about Thai foodthat you hear a lot of? Oh,
good, I get there.
Pailin (17:09):
So it's interesting you asked this question because the
when I first came, I had no ideawhat people thought about Thai
food.
And over over the years, Istarted to notice that a lot of
non Thai restaurants will haveThai something Thai salad, a
(17:29):
Thai pizza, or you know, like aThai wrap, or something. And I'm
just like, I don't understandwhat is Thai about this, but I
have come to a bullet point oflists that what it is that
people will do and then call ittype. One is peanuts, which is
completely astounding to mebecause we don't actually use
(17:52):
peanuts that much in Thailand,it just happens to be one of the
only two nuts that we have. Sowherever you would put nuts it
would either be peanuts orcashews. So it shows up more
like unlike here you got almondsand walnuts and be like all
sorts of nuts. Like we don'thave that variety. So So peanuts
show up as like the only nut.
But it's it's not at all a majorpart of our cuisine. But here
(18:17):
it's like if you're gonna make aThai something, you better put
some peanut on Pad Thai is likeprobably the gateway dish that
everyone's had. And those arethey have a Thai peanut sauce
right, which is like peanutbutter and you know, so I think
that's probably where that comesfrom. Oh my god and don't get me
started on the peanut sauce. Wedon't have a peanut sauce. Okay.
We don't even have peanutbutter. Peanut butter is not a
(18:42):
thing that exists in Thailand.
We never grind peanuts into thatconsistency. You just blew my
mind right now. What we have issatay sauce. So we have a sauce
that goes with our satay, whichis always pork, not chicken,
pork satay, and it comes with asauce that's made with ground up
(19:05):
peanuts. That is the only peanutsauce that we have, but somehow,
because satay is a popular dishin Thai restaurants, somehow
that gets translated to a Thaipeanut sauce that people can
bottle and put on shelves andput on everything. But like you
go to Thailand. 99% of thethings you eat are not going to
(19:28):
have any type of peanut sauce onit. Interesting. Yeah. You know,
there's 100 recipes. It's likepeanut butter, lime juice, you
know, whatever. Maybe a littlerice wine vinegar and there some
dry chili flake. And there yougo. You have Thai peanut sauce.
We don't use rice wine vinegar.
We've all seen those recipes,though. I know exactly what and
how about spice. I think youknow, a lot of people think that
(19:51):
it's all spicy and I hear frompeople like I don't eat food
like that because it's too spicyfor me, but it's not all spicy
and No, it's not all spicy. Andspice is something that you can
modify. Right? Like there aremany Thai people that don't like
eat food. That's super spicy.
I'm one of them. Like comparedto Thai people, my spice
(20:11):
tolerance is on the low side.
Yes, there are many, many spicydishes, but also so many that
are not. And if you reduce thespiciness of a dish, in no way,
are you making that dish wrongor inauthentic or anything like
there's, there's, I mean, wehave kids in our country, our
kids can eat spicy food, right?
And so that is something thatdevelops over time. So we've got
(20:35):
to have some foods to satisfythem too. And I think curry is
one of those weird words likepeople who don't eat it, whether
it be Thai or Indian, like I'vehad relatives who just say like,
I don't like curry. Curry. It'ssuch a generic term, like how do
you use the term like what iscurry mean and Thai cuisine. So
curry, in Thai cuisine, I thinkis very different from what most
(21:01):
people imagine a curry is. Firstof all, there are many of our
curries that doesn't actuallycontain the dry spices that that
people associate with curry.
There's no curry powder. There'snothing. Most of our curries are
made from fresh herbs that areground up into a paste. Some of
(21:21):
them have some dry spices, butthe spices are not the main
ingredient. And so in Thaicuisine, the word curry refers
to dishes that are made usingcurry paste as the main source
of flavor. And curry paste isnothing more than just ground up
herbs and spices as I said, andthen usually we will use coconut
(21:44):
milk as a liquid. But we alsohave curries that don't use any
coconut milk, but they use wateras a liquid and it will become a
lot lighter. A lot. soupier Thaicurries are not like Indian
curry where it's not thick. Itcan be very light and thin. And
usually, texturally it wouldlook more like a soup than a
(22:04):
stew.
I think a lot of people whenthey think curry, what they're
talking about is the flavor ofcurry powder. Like like like
Indian like Indian curry powder.
Yeah. Yeah. Or the generic currypowder that like if you go into
a Safeway or a Walmart and yougrab a thing labeled as curry
powder, heavy on tumeric. Andyou know, very, like that yellow
(22:26):
powder. Yeah, that yellowpowder. Right. And I think
people associate that withcurry. Even if you make Indian
curry like they, there's a hugerange of flavors from Indian
curry that you can't really justput one flavor to it either. But
I think that in the West, thatis what they're thinking of when
they are thinking of curryflavor. Well, I think sometimes
(22:49):
people need a reference point.
And that's where you kind of godown this path because you're
trying to describe something, Ithink that's why we use the term
like, it's a Thai taco or, youknow, it's high, whatever.
Because it's easier than saying,Well, it's a taco with peanuts
and lime and, and whatever. Sowe just like pick a generic,
(23:11):
like people say, Oh, this is aVietnamese, whatever. And
they'll just, it just means it'sgot fish sauce and lime and
whatever. But it's not reallyVietnamese, you know? Yeah, I
know. I know exactly what youmean. People are trying to give
some sort of an easydescription. Yeah, it's hard
when people aren't reallyfamiliar with those cuisines. So
it's kind of a double edgedsword there because you don't
want to miss describe the dish.
But how do you convey that topeople who maybe don't know?
(23:33):
Well, I'd love to talk aboutyour new cookbook a little bit.
Because I've got the book. Itlooks great. I think people are
going to really love this. Howdoes this book differ from your
previous cookbook? So my firstcookbook Hot Thai kitchen, I had
so much knowledge that I wantedto share that I couldn't share
(23:54):
in the video form. Because inthe video, each one is a recipe.
Each one is small and bite size.
But I wanted to expand on thefoundational knowledge of Thai
cuisine. It's like, what is theThai curry? We talked about
that, you know, what is a Thaistir fry? How does that differ
from a Chinese stir fry? Sothere was a lot of like textbook
(24:14):
key nerdy knowledge in my firstbook. And the recipes provided
was I chose ones that reallyrepresented what a Thai curry is
like and sort of broke them downinto their components. So it was
it was all very good if you wantto like, really study Thai
cuisine. My second book, I feellike what I was missing is a
(24:37):
resource to help people cookThai food easily and regularly.
Like, you know, for my firstbook, it's like, that's a
weekend project book. This oneis a Tuesday night book. And I
realized that I don't have thateven though I have a lot of easy
recipes on the website. There'sno obvious way like you got to
browse them. You got to look fora thing you got to see
Unknown (25:00):
See how difficult it is. So I wanted like a book
where if you grab this off of ashelf, you can turn to any page,
anything that catches your eye,I promise you, you can do it on
a weeknight. So that's what Iwanted this book to be is
something that you can actuallycook from without having to
think too much about it. And Ithink fortunately, the
(25:21):
availability of ingredientsright now is amazing, you know,
had this book come out 10 yearsor even earlier. It's like,
great, but where do I get that?
You know, I don't live in a hugecity. But you know, we have a
number of Asian grocery storeshere and we have an h Mart,
which is fantastic. And I don'tthink there's a single
ingredient that I wouldn't beable to find in there. If
(25:41):
someone wants to stock theirpantry to make a lot of these
dishes, if there were like fivethings that they should just go
if they're going to an Asiangrocery store and get what would
those be? I will say that in mybook, there's a section and I
have two lists, lists that arelike must haves if you want to
cook Thai regularly and listthat's like, nice to have, but
it's not necessary. Okay, so onthe must have unique fish sauce,
(26:04):
which you can get like even atWalmart, I think like it's do
you have a favorite fish sauce?
Yes. And it's changed. So myfavorite everyday fish sauce is
now mega chef. Okay?
Pailin (26:21):
But three crabs or red boat squid. Those are all fine
choices. So fish sauce, you needsoy sauce. If you can get Thai
sauce, that's great because it'sa little different, but if not
the Kikkoman will work. You needoyster sauce of some sort. And
then you need coconut milk andthe fifth one, I would probably
(26:46):
say Tamarinand how does that come? Are you
talking like the bricks are likea jarred product you can do both
the jarred product is easy touse. And it's if you're not
going to like get super deepinto Thai cooking, it's fine.
But if you make your owntamarind paste from the break of
pulp, it will taste better.
(27:11):
Yeah, and it's absolutely notthat's pretty and that's easy to
do. Oh, it's totally easy to dolike making Tamarin is something
Thai people make. Like we don'teven make it in bulk we make it
whenever we're going to cooksomething with it, it's that
easy, because all you need to dois soak it in some hot water,
just plain water will work aswell. And you just massage the
pulp into the liquid that youjust need to pump and water just
(27:34):
pump and water. It's basicallythe tamarind, the cooking
tamarind that we use isbasically diluted Tamarin pulp.
So when you're buying the jar,you're paying mostly for water.
Oh, 100% you're paying forprocessing? Yeah, yeah. And then
you might not use that jar, I'msure that goes off quicker than
having the pulp. So it justmakes sense to buy a little Paul
(27:55):
never goes bad. It's amazingbecause it's so acidic. So it
lasts forever. And once you makeit you can freeze, whatever you
don't use into little ice cubes.
And you can take it out a littlebit at a time, I find one of the
hardest products to find arelime leaves like that they're
kind of hit or miss. And thoseare completely edible, right?
You don't have to remove them ordo you. So it depends. If you
(28:17):
put them whole in a soup, whichwe often do. It's like a bayleaf
it's too chewy. Okay, eat awhole leaf. But if you finally
julienne them, you can totallyeat it. Yeah, I haven't worked
with them enough just a handfultimes, because it seems like
that is the thing that I don'talways have the easiest time
finding, but I love it whenthey're in a ditch, the flavor
(28:40):
is just amazing. Yeah. And ifyou've got a good climate, they
grow pretty easily. A lot ofpeople that follow me have told
me that it's hard for them tofind it. But they can source the
plant or the seed. And it growsin like if you have a warm
climate. Well, why this book,this is something I ask a lot of
cookbook authors, I understandkind of your why but there's an
(29:02):
enormous amount of cookbooks outthere already. And of course
blogs and YouTube. Did you findthis book differs from other
books out there? Or you know,your? Is it your point of view?
You know, because I think it'schallenging to write a book. So
what actually made you say, thisis something that's different,
and I want to put it out in theworld. And I want to do well
(29:23):
from a personal standpoint. So Imake content I make videos I
make you to be it's a it's afair question, why make one in a
book form? And it was a questionthat I asked myself the first
time because people when I didnot have a book, people kept
asking me Do you have a book? Doyou have a book? And I was like,
(29:43):
Why do you want a book? I'malready giving recipes out on
YouTube, like what you know,what do you need, but I realized
that it's very different. fromthe user perspective, it's a
very different thing to hold aphysical book in your hand and
flip through
Chris Spear (30:00):
through and get inspirations and read than to be
on your phone or on yourcomputer browsing through
website. It's an entirelydifferent experience. And people
who are fans of the show want athing that they can hold. So I
realized then that okay, it'sdifferent for the users. But
it's also different for mebecause things that I feel like
(30:20):
the book really gave me freedomto write about whatever I want
to write about, without worryingabout how well it's going to
perform. You know what I mean?
Like I could ramble on aboutstories without war, is the
video going to get too long ortoo boring, I can ramble on
about all these romantic thingsthat I want to talk about. That
wouldn't work well, on theinternet. And you're not
(30:42):
penalized if someone skips apage on your YouTube, if you put
a video out and someone doesn'twatch it, you get penalized. And
then they don't show your videoswith this, if I'm bored with
this page, and I flipped by, itdoesn't hurt anything, right?
Yeah. And I think people who aresitting down with a book are not
in a rush, right? That you'reon, when you're watching
internet videos, it's like youwant to find a video that is not
(31:03):
wasting your time, right. Soyou're clicking through, you're
sad, this is too long, you skipto something else. But when
people are sitting down with abook that they've purchased,
they've already made a decision,this is something they want to
relax with. And even flipping aphysical book back and forth,
like I, a couple years agodecided I have so many
cookbooks, I'm gonna startbuying digital and have them on
(31:24):
a tablet. But I find that Istill don't use those books as
much. It's not the same to like,kind of scan one page by one
page on that tablet, I like tosit down with this, like
physical book, I also think Idon't know is that stuff gonna
go away, you purchase all thesedigital books, and then what's
going to happen in 1015 years,they're going to change the
readers and the formats andwe're not even gonna be able to
(31:45):
access them anymore. So I'm kindof a hoarder in that sense of
survivalists where it's like,I'm not gonna get rid of my
books, my wife will say, but Iknow you have that on digital.
I'm like, Yeah, but like, that'sthe same thing with like, CDs, I
got rid of CDs. And now, thestreaming platforms aren't
carrying some of those albumsanymore, and you can't listen to
them. It's like, I wish I keptmy CD. So that's why I still
(32:05):
have all physical copies of mostof my books. Yeah. And I think
when ebooks came out, peoplewere saying that the zip, this
is the end of paper books, thisis where we're going. And then
here we are. People still wantphysical books, because they're
not the they're totallydifferent experiences, they are
and talking about differentexperiences. In your book, you
(32:27):
have QR codes in there, which Ithink is genius. You know, for
those. I mean, people probablyhaven't seen the book yet,
because it's not actually out.
But there's like a QR code, youhave like a salad roll, and then
there's a code and you scan, andthen it goes to your YouTube and
it shows someone visually how todo it. I think that's such a
genius idea. I've never seenthat before. I actually had that
(32:48):
in my first book. Also, I thinkI was one, which came on 2016.
And I think I was one of thevery first books that started
doing that. But I had all thesevideo content. And and the one
thing that video does win overtext is like showing a
technique. Like you can writeabout it all you want. But
sometimes unless you see it, youdon't really understand
(33:10):
unwrapping a salad roll is oneof those things. Okay? So I
thought, how can I like, tellpeople that there's something
they can watch. And QR codes aregreat, because I can update the
link, so they never break?
Right? If I put a website URL,there's no way to copy and paste
that URL from your book to yourphone, you got to type it out.
(33:32):
And then if that URL everchanges, it's toast, but I can
go back and update the URL tomake sure nothing ever breaks.
So it's just brilliant. Allaround, I think more and more
cookbooks are gonna start tohave that. I do love that I was
in a book this past year. And itwas a book about chefs. And
there were like 50 chefs in thebook. And everyone's bio, in the
(33:55):
back of the book, there was justa list of the 50 chefs with a QR
code. And then it went to liketheir business, their website or
their bio or whatever onlinewhich was really nice. So you
could read more about thatperson. It's also great for
content building because youquite possibly could have people
buy your book who've never seenyour videos or your YouTube and
now you're sending them out toyour YouTube so yeah, I thought
(34:17):
that was really neat. I havenever seen it used like this
before. But yeah, the the visualaspect, I was just talking to
someone. This week, I learned tobutcher a pig's head by watching
Chef Chris Cosentino did like aneight part YouTube series more
than a decade ago, like you canhave butchering books, but like
reading how to like D bone, awhole pig's head. There's no way
reading a book, you're going tobe able to do that. But watching
(34:39):
someone do that in actual videomakes it so much easier. 100% Do
you have any favorite entryrecipes in this new book? Like
if you're new to cooking Thaifood, maybe haven't eaten it so
much. Do you have like two orthree recipes you maybe think
people should start with? Yes.
Pailin (35:00):
So as a general rule of thumb, starting with a curry or
a soup is always a good idea.
Because they go slowly, you cantake your time, and you can
taste and adjust to your heart'sdesire. If you do something like
a stir fry, it's something thatgoes quickly. And it's something
that like, it's harder toadjust, right? If it's too
(35:21):
salty, not salty enough, it'sharder to adjust soups and
curries are much more forgiving.
So I would say, a good startingcurry is the red curry with
pineapple and shrimp. So becausered curry is a place that you
can find anywhere, I mean,anywhere. And then shrimp,
(35:44):
pineapple, like all of these arereally basic things. So that's a
dish you can make without goingto an Asian grocery store, I
still think you should go to anAsian grocery store, because the
choices of curry paste is goingto be better. If you're in a
western store, generally,they'll just have the Thai
Kitchen brand, which is verydiluted in potency compared to a
(36:08):
Thai brand. So like, if I haveto use a Thai Kitchen I have to
use like the whole jar. And thenit's still not spicy enough to
like add a bunch of stuff to it.
You know, if you're if you'revery sensitive to spice maybe
that's a pace that you want tostart with. But if you're ready
to like you know, have someheat, go to your Asian grocery
store and pick a brand that'snot an English. Oh, that's so
(36:29):
overwhelming. Like nothing is inEnglish, just soy sauce for
those people who know thatthere's or think that there's
like two or three like Kiko monor whatever. And then you go
there, like I'm standing there.
I love the serious eats website.
And they quite often have likehow to stock an Asian pantry.
And it's like, here's their 10favorite soy sauces. But I'm
(36:51):
like looking at the phone andlooking on the shelves like
trying to look at the pictureand the words because none of
it's in English. And just tryingto figure out like which one I'm
gonna get. And then I figurelike, probably any of them would
be better than what I could getat like my local grocery store.
Right, exactly, because that's astore catered towards Asian
people. This is why one of mytop performing videos is a video
(37:13):
where he gave a tour of an Asiangrocery store. And if you're
new, I highly recommend going tomy YouTube channel and watching
that, because people areoverwhelmed and I understand it.
I've been there. You know, whenwhen I try to cook Korean food,
I go to H Mart it's like that'sall very unfamiliar to me as
well. So I understand thefeeling. And I think that video
(37:34):
will help
Unknown (37:37):
help you choose at least narrow down your options
of what to get and what not toget. Yeah, when you see a whole
aisle of you know vinegars ormiso paste or something like
that, you know, but again, Ithink if it's something that you
like, you just get one and tryanother one the next time get a
(37:57):
fish sauce, try it, it might notbe to your taste, or it might
not be your favorite gettinganother one the next time.
Although something like a bigbottle of fish sauce, sometimes
take a while takes a while towork through. I'll give you a
little tip. Okay, if you arereally at a loss at a nation
grocery store and you don't knowwhich to choose, price is
generally a good indicator ofquality. And we're not talking
(38:21):
about expensive of Asianingredients are very cheap. But
if you've got like a thing that$6 and a thing that's $4 the $6
one is probably better. So whenin doubt, you can go with that.
And also a lot of stores willhide smaller size bottles on the
top shelf. So if you're thinkingwe're talking about fish sauce,
(38:41):
being like a liter bottle, lookup on the top shelf, sometimes
the smaller bottles are there.
Those are great tips. Yeah, likeI went to buy some show yo not
too long ago and you know,there's a whole bunch of them
but then there's these bottlesthat are like wrapped in paper
and they're like $9 A bottleinstead of $3 A bottle so it's
like I can't read any of thisbut I'm assuming that if I buy
this like nice paper wrap bottlefor $9 It's gonna be so much
(39:03):
better yes 100% And is thereanything better than Tom Yum on
like a cold day when you're sickyou know, like that. That's,
that's my favorite. It just likeopens everything up. You got
some spice in there and that'sone of my favorite dishes to get
you know, even if I'm gonna getlike a big curry after just to
have some and share it with thefamily to start and actually we
(39:24):
never talked about what recipesto actually do. So the we did
talk about the red curry wasshrimp but on the soup side, a
tom yum is great. If you can getthe herbs and you can get the
herbs dried at many places aswell. Dried herbs work well in
soups. Tom yum is great, but TomCA is another one that's really
(39:45):
great for people who don't eat alot of spicy because it's
milder. It's got coconut milk soit's going to be richer. So that
is actually like if when I usedto do it
In classes, I always had atancock guy, which is a coconut
chicken soup on the mix, becauseI know 100% of the time, people
(40:08):
are going to love it. And it'ssuch an easy to love dish. And a
lot of times people are kind ofblown away because it's a flavor
combination that they have neverhad before the same herbs as Tom
Yum, but just a little morecreamy. Yeah, there's something
nice about coconut milk basedsomething you know, you have
that body, because I'm not ahuge soup eater for a meal like
(40:30):
Ali soup, like a tom yam as astarter, but I don't feel like
filled up. So that's why I likesometimes something that has
like that heavy, Fatty, youknow, coconut milk in there
because it feels moresubstantial to me.
Pailin (40:43):
So I want to talk about how to eat Thai food correctly,
because I feel like that'ssomething that you maybe have
some feelings about. I knowyou've got a video on there. And
I'm sure some of it is visual. Idon't know that there's a lot of
cuisines or cultures where I'vehad to, you know, kind of learn
how to eat properly. Do you havesome tips about what that means
(41:05):
and how to eat Thai foodproperly. It's nice. So this is
my latest video and I and I havenever seen a video with more
engagement in the commentsection. So how to eat Thai food
properly. First of all theutensils to use is a fork and a
spoon. And the spoon is what youuse to carry food into your
(41:27):
mouth. Because we have a lot ofsauces in Thai cuisine. Our rice
is jasmine rice, they don'treally stick together very well.
So if you try to eat Thai foodwith a fork, you will have a
hard time because things justdon't stay on the fork very
well. So the fork is there toreally help push food onto the
spoon. So that's the main thing.
And then if you want to spearfood with a fork, you can do
(41:48):
that. But the main thing withthe fork is its helps push
things onto the spoon. Now, itis usually done family style,
which means that most of thedishes are in the in the middle
and you're sharing. Andeverybody starts with a plate of
rice. All of Thai food is eatenwith rice, even soups, even
salad. Are you curries are youstir fries, the flavors are
(42:10):
super strong. If you don't havea plate of rice to go with it,
it's it's too much. It doesn'twork. It's like having, you
know, just the pasta saucewithout the pasta. Basically.
That's what what kind of rice isthis jasmine rice? Oh, always
Jasmine? Yes. And I always tellpeople, This is not a buffet,
you do not load your plate witheverything that you want from
(42:32):
the middle, and then starteating which, you know, it's
funny because coming to NorthAmerica, I see all these things
that I would never think about.
So I start having Thai mealswith friends. And they would
load their plate because at aThanksgiving dinner, Christmas
dinner, that's what you do,right? If you're sharing
something, you compose yourplate with everything that you
(42:55):
want, and then you start eating,but not in Thailand. And I think
in Southeast Asia as well, youtake a little bit of a couple of
things, you finish it, you goback for more. And we do this.
So to make sure that everyonehas gotten a little bit of
everything, so you don't taketoo much. And then you also
never end up with more food thanyou can eat, you're not going to
(43:17):
end up with that Thanksgivingcoma at the end, because you're
literally taking three bites ofsomething at a time. In
Thailand, the only time we sitdown with our own plate of food
is if you're having noodledishes or rice dishes. So for
example, pepti is not somethingyou share with people. They're
(43:38):
like the sandwiches of ourcuisine is something you have
for lunch and when you're byyourself or when you're with
your colleagues, and you justwant to get in and out quickly.
Like we go for pot Thai Potsieyou fried rice, something like
that, like those are completemeals in a dish. But if you're
having dinner with your family,lunch with your family and you
sort of like a quote unquoteregular meal with your family,
(44:00):
it's always family style. Do youeat with chopsticks at all? No,
we know chopsticks. I've seenchopsticks at Thai restaurants
before I know and you know whythey give it because people ask
for it. Because you will ask forit because they think that
chopsticks are like an Asianthing.
Top six just doesn't work withThai food. It's the way we serve
(44:22):
it. We serve rice on a plate. Ifyou try to eat Thai food rice on
a plate with chopsticks, you'regonna have a very hard time.
Okay? Chinese people Japanesepeople can eat rice with
chopsticks because their ricecomes into a bowl. And they use
a chopsticks to sweep thingsinto their mouth. Right? It's a
very different thing. That verydifferent experience. And we use
(44:43):
chopsticks sometimes fornoodles. There are a lot of
people of Chinese descent inThailand. So a lot of them will
like to eat noodles withchopsticks, which is fine but
for rice never.
Chris Spear (44:56):
And I imagine there's like I mean curries,
right likebrothy soupy kind of stuff.
There's no way that thattranslates. There's no way
there's no way. And I and Ithink also, like, people don't
understand that. When I say thisis eaten with rice, I'm not
saying the rice is a side dish,and you'll have a bite of curry
followed by a bite of rice, thecurry and the rice come together
in one bite. So that's why weneed a spoon. If people don't
(45:21):
get anything else from thisepisode, hopefully it will be
how to eat it properly. And I dotons of links and show notes. So
I'll link that video upspecifically so that people can
check that out. Because I thinkit's also a visual that they
would appreciate. Yes, yes,totally. So so many of my
listeners are content creators.
And I want to talk a little bitabout the YouTube channel, kind
(45:44):
of specifics, because you have aenormous following, you know,
more than most you're probablyin, you know, like the top 5%.
If not 1% of subscribers, youhave almost 2 million
subscribers. What was thattrajectory? Like? Did you start
off? And it's been kind of aslow build, was there some viral
content? How did you get to bethat huge on YouTube, I have
(46:07):
been doing YouTube since 2009,that's a very long time. Slow
build is exactly what that is.
And I want this to beencouraging to people is a lot,
you see a lot of
Pailin (46:20):
newcomers who just explode onto the scene, you
know, suddenly, you've neverheard of them before. And
suddenly, they're got like 2million subscribers. And that
can happen. But there are also alot of channels who are
successful because of slow andsteady growth. And in fact, I
would argue that if you canmanage slow and steady growth,
(46:41):
you will be more stable. Becauseif people find you from one
piece of content that wentviral, they may not come back,
you know, they may not come backagain. Because you and we see
this a lot with short formcontent now short, you know,
video 100%, or YouTube shortswill get 5 million views. And
(47:01):
those views don't return. Oh,yeah, I have shorts that are
like, I'll have like 500 or 800.
And then one will be like12,000. And then the next one's
like 1000 or 700. It's likepeople came because of this one
clip because something was maybecontroversial or something and
then the comments blew off and,and then you kind of lose that
traction. Yeah. But if you builda channel, that is, has a solid
(47:23):
foundation of resources. Solike, for example, if people
come to my channel, if you'relooking for Thai dish, you're
going to find it unless it'ssome obscure thing. Like if
you're looking something on yourThai restaurant menu, you're
going to find something at leastsimilar to that. So if you build
a solid foundation of resourcesthat answers the questions that
people are coming to you forwhatever cuisine or kind of food
(47:47):
you specialize in. But thatfoundation of resources have to
build over time. Right? So ittakes time it takes patience.
But But keeping, I think it'salways helpful to keep in mind
to think about the viewers, whatproblems can you help them
solve? What questions might theyhave? And then try to answer
(48:08):
that questions, try to have ananswer for as many questions as
you can possibly do. And thenover time, you will become
again, stable and solid. Andpeople can keep coming back.
Because that's what you wantpeople coming back to you,
because they have come to trustyou as an authority and as a
reference. And I think if you'reengaging with your community,
(48:30):
you have a pretty firm handle onwhat they're looking for. And if
you are the type of person whoresponds to comments, and people
know that, then it's easy,because people will say to you,
but how do you cook rice? Orwhat's the best walk to buy or
whatever? And hopefully, you'regetting that info, where you're
then you know what content tocreate, because people are
specifically asking for that?
(48:52):
Yeah, for sure. Do you have anyfinal words for our listeners
today? Before we get out ofhere, anything that we haven't
addressed? I'm sure we couldtalk all day about Thai food and
cooking and so forth. But isthere anything that you really
want to share before we leave? Ithink if we're speaking to
content creators, because Ithink even if you're not a
content creator for a living, ifyou're a private chef or
(49:15):
whatever, Chef, you probablyhave some sort of a social media
channel.
I think my, my final word wouldbe done is better than perfect.
I just came back from aconference, a food bloggers
conference, I met a lot of foodbloggers who are thinking about
having a YouTube channel, butthey're trying to figure out
(49:36):
what is the best thing to do,what is the best angle and how
to and I think the best way tofigure out what to do is to do
it. And if it goes terriblywrong, you can always delete the
video. You don't have to postit. Or you can post it if it
doesn't do well and you'reembarrassed about it. You can
always take it back but the onlyway to know is to put it out
(49:57):
there and I think I was
Chris Spear (50:00):
blast when I started my YouTube channel,
there weren't a lot out there.
So I didn't have anything tocompare myself to. And I didn't
think twice about it. Like, Iliterally thought, oh, I can do
this now. Great, do it. Let's doit. And I think it's much harder
to do these days, because you'vegot so many points of
comparison. But if you canpretend that you're in your own
(50:20):
world and just post whatever youwant, you will get there much
faster. And if we get a littlethick skin, because people love
to come in the comments andcomment on what you're doing,
trust me, it is not easy. AnyYouTuber who says comments don't
get to them is not telling youthe truth. But they've just
learned to let it go muchquicker. So I remember early,
(50:43):
early in my career, I used toget, like a negative comment
would like hang with me for likea whole day, you know, but now
I've learned to see the humor init, I've learned to realize that
I don't necessarily understandwhat people are going through.
And so there might be a lot ofhurt a lot of stress that
(51:04):
they're taking out on the world.
And now a comment will get to mefor you know, a couple of
minutes, and then I can shake itoff. But that took a lot to get
to this point. So if it's takingyou a little bit more like know
that that's normal, but worktowards it, and know that it's
never about you. And commentsequal engagement and engagement
(51:26):
pumps you up a little bit. So,you know, I try and take a light
hearted approach to it and tryand be funny in my responses
because, you know, it is what itis I did a video the other day
and I talked about washingmushrooms, which apparently is
really controversial because Iwashed my mushrooms because they
were super dirty. And then Ispotted them dry in a salad
spinner. And all these peoplecame and said, you don't wash
(51:47):
your mushrooms, they're gonna bereally wet. And I said like,
here's an experiment and HaroldMcGee talks about this, like
weigh your mushrooms, then washyour mushrooms, dry them, weigh
them again and tell me how muchheavier they are. Because I can
almost guarantee you there's nolike water absorption, like if
you're just running water overthem. But like all these chef
bros came for me in the commentsabout how like, I'm just gonna
(52:09):
have water mushrooms, andthey're not gonna say tan brown.
Literally, there's a video ofthem being like super Brown, and
golden. So it wasn't that theysteamed but everyone wanted to
argue about it. But it's like,keep arguing about it in the
comments, because it's justmaking this become one of my
most like, viewed videos thisweek. So Have at it, you know,
and just so you know, I am amushroom washer, too. Yes,
(52:31):
they're so dirt. They're sodirty. I mean, I get some of
these and they're covered,especially if you buy the ones
on the package. Like if you'rebuying them in bulk and loose, I
feel like they're cleaned up alittle bit. But when you get
the, like containers of them, Itake them off and there's like
dirt everywhere. It's like, I amdefinitely washing these at
night. What are you gonna do sitthere with a brush and brush
them individually, like, no timefor now. But people are funny
(52:52):
like that. Everyone's got theiropinions and especially when I'm
sure with you like authenticcuisine and traditional cooking
styles. I'm sure there's tons ofpeople who let's that's not how
their grandmother did it, orwhatever. And they feel they
need to come and tell you thatI'm sure right for sure. Which
is why I always say comments areabout the commenter not about
you. Yes. Good. Good advice foreveryone out there who's
(53:15):
creating content. And I thinkthat's probably almost everyone
who listens to the show, even ifit's just an Instagram page.
Well, thanks again for comingon. I love the book. I can't
wait to share this episode witheveryone. Again, it'll be linked
so people hopefully go buy yourbook. And then they can find you
on all your channels and learnto be a better tie cook. Thank
(53:37):
you so much for having me. Thisis great fun. And as always,
this has been Chris with theChefs Without Restaurants
podcast. Thanks so much and havea great week. Go to chefs
without restaurants.org To findour Facebook group, mailing list
and Chef database. The communityis free to join. You'll get gig
opportunities, advice onbuilding and growing your
business and you'll never missan episode of our podcast. Have
(53:59):
a great week.
A quick internet search for Thai peanut sauce
will yield dozens if nothundreds of results. Most of
them call for peanut butter. Butdid you know they don't even
have peanut butter and Thailand.
More traditionally, they'd bemaking satay sauce with crushed
peanuts in it. It might havebeen Pi Day on Tuesday, but
we're celebrating all weekbecause chef Palin of Hot Thai
Kitchen released her newcookbook syllabi on Tuesday, and
(00:22):
she's here to talk about it.
This is Chris spear. And you'relistening to Chefs Without
Restaurants, the show where Ispeak with culinary
entrepreneurs and people workingin the food and beverage
industry outside of atraditional restaurant setting.
So this is a special Thursdayedition of the podcast. I didn't
get it out yesterday. Did youmiss me? If you can't tell by my
(00:43):
lovely hoarse voice, I'mbattling a bout of bronchitis.
So I've been a bit under theweather and I'm going to keep
this intro short and sweet thisweek. This week, I have Chef
Palin host of the YouTubechannel pilots kitchen and
author of The companion websiteHot Thai kitchen. She recently
released her second cookbooksyllabi 100 Simple Thai recipes
(01:05):
for any day of the week. Thisepisode is really a primer on
Thai food and cooking. Shedispels some of the Thai food
myths and shares her top fiveitems for stocking a Thai pantry
at home. We discuss why she wascompelled to write another
cookbook. And she shares how shegrew her YouTube channel to over
one and a half millionsubscribers and almost 170
million views overall. That isquite impressive. And I know a
(01:29):
lot of you out there arecreating content and would love
to know how to do that. No plugsthis week, no ads this week,
well, maybe a plug. If you lovethe show, tell people about it.
Just post the show and say hey,I'm listening this podcast Chefs
Without Restaurants, I reallylove it, share it on Instagram,
Facebook, whatever. But otherthan that, that's all I got. I'm
(01:49):
gonna go have a cup of hot teaand rest my throat because I'm
losing my voice. As always, Ireally appreciate you taking the
time to listen to the show. Ihope you have an amazing rest of
the day week whenever you'relistening to this, and I'll see
you around.
Hey, hi. Welcome to the show.
Thanks so much for coming on.
Pailin (02:05):
Thank you for having me.
Chris Spear (02:07):
I'm really excited to talk to you today. I love
Thai food and cooking. I'm notfantastic at Thai cooking. So
maybe I will pick up somepersonal tips. That's a little
selfish part of me. It's one ofthe nice things about having
guests on the show is I get tokind of ask them all the
questions that I want to know.
Pailin (02:23):
Yeah, ask away. I love nerding out over Thai food.
Chris Spear (02:28):
So you have a website with lots of recipes on
it a YouTube channel that haslike 160 something million
views, and a new cookbook, whichis your second one syllabi,
which will be out on March 14.
So it sounds like we're going tobe it sounds like we're gonna be
talking about some Thai food andcooking today. I can assume that
right?
Pailin (02:48):
Yes, yes.
Chris Spear (02:50):
Well, I would love to start with your backstory,
especially as it relates to foodand cooking, like how you grew
up was food, something that youwere really interested in when
you were younger, and then howyou kind of brought it into more
of a content creation setting,if you will, you know, videos
and books and such.
Pailin (03:06):
Right. So I grew up in in Thailand, and I had always
been really interested in foodand cooking just I was naturally
drawn towards whatever washappening in the kitchen. So I
learned how to cook at a veryyoung age. But then as a
teenager, I was living inThailand still and Thailand
(03:27):
started importing cooking showsfrom overseas. So I was watching
Jamie Oliver and Nigella Lawsonand mostly British and
Australian shows. And I fell inlove with that. Like it just
looked to me like the perfectjob. As a kid. I love to cook
and I always love to present Ialways enjoy public public
(03:50):
speaking. And it was the perfectcombination of the two. And I
thought that's it. That is whatI want to be when I grow up. I
am going to be on TV and showpeople how to cook. Not
realizing Of course, that youdon't just go apply for a job
like that. And so I ended upjust pursuing a career as a
(04:11):
chef. And hope that one daythere'll be some sort of a show
opportunity down the line. Andthen when YouTube came along, it
was like, well, you no longerhave to wait for anyone to
discover you. You can have ashow if you want to show and I
did it.
Chris Spear (04:30):
Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's so cool. I mean, I search
YouTube for everything. I'malways appreciative of the
people who put on the mostmundane things like the car door
jams, and I just like Googlelike my make and model and like
how to fix it and someone hasthis whole video of like how to
take your car door apart.
YouTube is amazing. So how didyou learn to cook? I was taught
by my nanny, my mother didn'tcook actually, she still doesn't
Unknown (04:59):
know
Pailin (05:00):
And then I was inspired by my grandmother's both of whom
didn't live with us. Butwhenever they came to visit,
they would just cook. All theydid was cook. And so I was
inspired by them. I learned fromthem a little bit. But I really
learned by going to culinaryschool, I did go to culinary
school, and I learned on the joband restaurants, I worked in
(05:20):
catering and all that stuff. Sowhat's the time frame of that?
Like, when did you start yourYouTube channel, I guess I
started the YouTube channelwhile I was in culinary school.
That's a good plan, like get it,get it going while you're
learning still. Exactly. And Ihad so much more time because as
you know, once you're in therestaurant industry, you no
(05:41):
longer have time to be startinga YouTube channel on this 100%.
And so I had time and I wasexcited. I was learning so much.
Culinary School was the besttime of my life. And I had all
this energy that like reallyneeded to come out in some way,
shape, or form. So it wasperfect. And then I kept it up.
(06:03):
Even as I was working already inrestaurants. I kept it up, but
not that much, you know, but Idid it as a hobby whenever I had
time. And I never really stoppedeven though I wasn't posting all
that often. Was that the firstthing you did, and the website
came after? Because your websiteis also very comprehensive.
Yeah, so the YouTube was thefirst step there. Yeah, the
(06:23):
YouTube was the first stepthere. And I and I really should
have started the website sooner,but I really didn't, I didn't
realize the potential and theutility of a website back then.
And then, at some point, Ineeded a place to have written
recipe somewhere. And my firstvideos, I had no recipe, so I
(06:44):
put all the ingredients andtheir amounts in the video. But
if you were to make it, you'dhave to like take notes.
Which, you know, I didn't thinkabout it at the time, but I
thought it was fine. But thenpeople were like, You should
have these written downsomewhere. So I was like, Okay,
I need a place to put these downsomewhere. And so I started
writing them down on thewebsite. And then over time, as
(07:09):
I realized how much you know,more comprehensive a recipe post
can be rather than just therecipe, you can give background
stories and tips and likesubstitutions and all that. So I
started writing morecomprehensive posts. So the
website is what it is today. Areall your original videos still
there? Because I know when youfirst start creating content,
(07:31):
sometimes it's a little cringeworthy, and you go back like and
you want to delete Have youdeleted or as all as all your
stuffs still there. It's allstill there, except for maybe
the first few that are just tooembarrassing. I can't handle
they're still up there. But it'sprivate it because I you know, I
(07:51):
want to have it there just formyself. But the vast majority, I
think except for the first twoor three only everything else is
still there. Having a podcastwas the same like I you know, I
don't have a background in this.
I'm a chef as well. And, youknow, people say like, oh, I
started listening your podcast,I started from the beginning.
I'm like, don't start from thebeginning, like start from now,
and work back because you'regonna hit a period where you're
like, the audio quality isn'tgreat. The interviewing isn't
(08:14):
great. But I still have mypodcast episodes up there. And I
just hope that people realizethat the quality has improved
drastically in the years thatI've been doing this. Yeah. And
I think it's interesting for theviewers to when they watch your
first one or see, listen to yourfirst one. And they watch it now
and they see you well, they havereally improved. And I think
that's, that's great for theviewers. So your videos and
(08:34):
content in general seem likeyou're demystifying Thai cooking
and kind of making it seem moreapproachable, right is, is that
why you just kind of wanted tohelp people get a handle on how
to do this. So when I came toNorth America, I came to Canada
first and then I moved to the USfor a few years. But during that
(08:55):
time, I realized what a mysteryThai food is to most people,
like most people have a Thairestaurant that they go to.
But they wouldn't know where tobegin to make any of those
things, what the ingredientswere to go get the ingredients
(09:16):
what to do with them, how tochoose them. And the more I
talked to people, the more Irealized, like, people really
have no idea and I felt like assomebody who's who's, who loves
to teach and who love to cook.
It just felt to me like it wassomething I needed to do to
clarify, just to put it out intothe world. And not to mention
when I came here, I startedgoing to Thai restaurants. And I
(09:40):
realized that the food that theywere serving in restaurants
weren't like food that they wereserving at home in Thailand.
They had been modified andchanged and like to make it
more. I don't know what the termis to make it more I guess,
familiar to the Americancustomers or nothing
was too weird or too bizarreand, and then I thought, people
(10:03):
also don't really know what realThai food is, if this is their
reference point, this isn'treally what we eat at home. So I
felt like it was a personalmission to show people what Thai
food is really like. And I'mhappy to say that I think there
are more restaurants that havehave changed that over the
years, like back then I couldn'tfind really any food that I
(10:25):
would say, oh, yeah, this isexactly like home. But now there
are more and more restaurantsthat are becoming a little bit
more bold and like, Okay, well,let's give them the real stuff.
And see what people think. Andpeople love it. They always love
it. I think, you know, I thinksometimes we underestimate the,
the American palate, right? Likethey can really a lot of
(10:47):
adventurous eaters, nowadays,they want the real stuff, they
want the authentic stuff, andpeople can handle it. I'm always
surprised that kinds of thingspeople are making and loving.
Absolutely. And I thinkauthentic is kind of a tricky
term. But I do think that wehave Americanized, you know, a
great example is Chinese food. Idon't think people ever really
had like real Chinese food, theylike Chinese American food, but
(11:11):
like growing up, the stuff thatI ate going to Chinese
restaurants, I don't think iswhat you would eat in a
traditional Chinese home. Andyou just see that across the
board with all these differentcuisines. But you know, people,
they impose that on themselvesimpose that on their children,
my wife and I, we have kids, andwe were traveling to the UK last
fall. And I remember askingpeople like, oh, where's a good,
(11:31):
you know, restaurant for this orthat? And they said, Well,
you've got kids, like, there's aShake Shack over there. It's
like, I came here from like, theUS, like, I'm not going to Shake
Shack, like my kids are 10.
Like, they can handle real foodand authentic food. Like, I want
to go get that and that, youknow, but I think sometimes we
kind of put that on people like,Oh, they're not gonna like the
(11:53):
real Thai food or cooking. Yes.
And I sympathize with the Thairestaurant owners, and I don't
criticize them at all. Becausewhen they first when Thai people
first came, there were very,very few things that they were
able to do for a living becausethey didn't speak English. And
opening a Thai restaurant wasone of the obvious things, okay,
we know this stuff. But theseweren't chefs who are
(12:16):
necessarily like passionateabout food, their mission wasn't
to spread the word about Thaicuisine, they were just trying
to make a living. And theydidn't have all the ingredients
that they needed. So they haveto make substitutions and all of
that, and they were just tryingto make it work. And, and then
it just kind of stuck, right.
(12:39):
Like, even though now we havemore adventurous clientele, we
have all these ingredients thatare available. But the tradition
is that well, this is the waywe've been making peptides all
these years. And people like it,let's just stick with it. So
there's a little bit of like astickiness to that. Which is why
I think it takes a newgeneration of chefs to really
(13:01):
like make that leap. But I, youknow, I don't want to sound like
I'm criticizing Thai restaurantsthat aren't serving traditional
food, I totally understand wherethey're coming from. And it's
totally sensible. But I thinkthere's room now to go the other
direction as well. Yeah, andsome of those dishes are great,
and they become their own thing.
And the same way that we have aItalian American, you know, we
have these very, like pasta, redsauce joints. And that's not
(13:24):
maybe how it was done in Italy,but it's become such a part of
our culture that it becomes itsown cuisine, you know?
Chris Spear (13:32):
How do you decide what videos you're going to do?
And when because I know you havea lot of very, some are very
basic, like how to best cookrice, how to buy a rice cooker,
versus getting into like areally in depth recipe. Did you
kind of have like, a bullet listof like, these are the ones I
really think are important toapproach or is it based on
(13:53):
feedback, like people saying,hey, I really don't know how to
cook rice.
Pailin (13:57):
So a little bit of both in the very beginning, I did all
the famous dishes, like I didall the dishes that people would
be looking for. So the greencurry and the papaya salad and
tomyam soup and all of thatstuff. But once that list had
been depleted, then I went intoa I'm going to make whatever I
(14:17):
like. So there was a period ofthat just whatever I like
whatever food that I like,because I felt that you know,
I'm a Thai person. If I likethis, then this is good enough
for the public. You know, thisis exactly the kind of thing I
want to show people, interestingdishes you've never seen before.
But hey, this is Thai food. Andthen as the audience grew, I
(14:38):
started getting a lot ofquestions. Then they started
making videos that answeredthose questions like ingredient
deep dives about coconut milk,how to cook rice, which is
something that as a Thai personyou thought was very basic and
that you did not need to explainto people I was wrong about that
you do need to explain to people
Chris Spear (15:00):
And it's actually a lot more complicated than you've
been getting. I will just say Ididn't grow up eating rice at
all, like ever. I grew up inMassachusetts, like, I don't
remember we're a potatoesfamily. I have like never in my
life like rinsed rice washed itsoaked it, any of that stuff.
(15:20):
And you know, now it's likewhether you're looking at a
Mexican recipe or a Filipino ora Thai, there's all these things
about rinsing your rice soakingyour rice. And it's just funny
because, again, I'm sure youprobably expected everyone knew
to do that. I don't think I'verinsed my rice until I was like
probably almost 40 years old.
Wow. See, like, all these thingsI'm learning. And it's the same
way. Like if you asked me how tocook spaghetti, you know, 20
(15:42):
years ago, I'd be like, I don'tknow. It's just there's no
instructions on the bag. Formost of that, you know, just
says take one cup of rice andadd two cups of water and bring
to a simmer. Like it doesn'ttalk about the process involved.
And packaging instructions arethe worst, especially apt for
Asian ingredients. Do notbelieve them look up a reliable
(16:02):
source on the internet. I haveseen so many just I don't know
if like they just think theyjust need to write something to
have something there. Nobodyever tested these instructions.
It's like, No, I find the waterto Rice ratio is so drastically
different on all of them. Andnot just with whether it's like
a long grain short grainJasmine. But just like in
(16:25):
general, it could be the sametype with different brands. It's
like am I using one and a halfcups water to one cup rice or
two cups water. And I think youjust have to find a brand that
you know you like and works andthen figure that out and then
just stick to it. That's kind ofwhat I like to do. And your
preference to like some peoplelike wetter rice, some people
like dry or rice. So that issomething that you'll have to
(16:46):
adjust as well. And a lot ofpeople don't realize that like
they will make rice and they'relike, your rice is so dry. And
they don't realize that the ricethat they like is really wet by
other people's standards. Youknow? What are some common
misconceptions about Thai foodthat you hear a lot of? Oh,
good, I get there.
Pailin (17:09):
So it's interesting you asked this question because the
when I first came, I had no ideawhat people thought about Thai
food.
And over over the years, Istarted to notice that a lot of
non Thai restaurants will haveThai something Thai salad, a
(17:29):
Thai pizza, or you know, like aThai wrap, or something. And I'm
just like, I don't understandwhat is Thai about this, but I
have come to a bullet point oflists that what it is that
people will do and then call ittype. One is peanuts, which is
completely astounding to mebecause we don't actually use
(17:52):
peanuts that much in Thailand,it just happens to be one of the
only two nuts that we have. Sowherever you would put nuts it
would either be peanuts orcashews. So it shows up more
like unlike here you got almondsand walnuts and be like all
sorts of nuts. Like we don'thave that variety. So So peanuts
show up as like the only nut.
But it's it's not at all a majorpart of our cuisine. But here
(18:17):
it's like if you're gonna make aThai something, you better put
some peanut on Pad Thai is likeprobably the gateway dish that
everyone's had. And those arethey have a Thai peanut sauce
right, which is like peanutbutter and you know, so I think
that's probably where that comesfrom. Oh my god and don't get me
started on the peanut sauce. Wedon't have a peanut sauce. Okay.
We don't even have peanutbutter. Peanut butter is not a
(18:42):
thing that exists in Thailand.
We never grind peanuts into thatconsistency. You just blew my
mind right now. What we have issatay sauce. So we have a sauce
that goes with our satay, whichis always pork, not chicken,
pork satay, and it comes with asauce that's made with ground up
(19:05):
peanuts. That is the only peanutsauce that we have, but somehow,
because satay is a popular dishin Thai restaurants, somehow
that gets translated to a Thaipeanut sauce that people can
bottle and put on shelves andput on everything. But like you
go to Thailand. 99% of thethings you eat are not going to
(19:28):
have any type of peanut sauce onit. Interesting. Yeah. You know,
there's 100 recipes. It's likepeanut butter, lime juice, you
know, whatever. Maybe a littlerice wine vinegar and there some
dry chili flake. And there yougo. You have Thai peanut sauce.
We don't use rice wine vinegar.
We've all seen those recipes,though. I know exactly what and
how about spice. I think youknow, a lot of people think that
(19:51):
it's all spicy and I hear frompeople like I don't eat food
like that because it's too spicyfor me, but it's not all spicy
and No, it's not all spicy. Andspice is something that you can
modify. Right? Like there aremany Thai people that don't like
eat food. That's super spicy.
I'm one of them. Like comparedto Thai people, my spice
(20:11):
tolerance is on the low side.
Yes, there are many, many spicydishes, but also so many that
are not. And if you reduce thespiciness of a dish, in no way,
are you making that dish wrongor inauthentic or anything like
there's, there's, I mean, wehave kids in our country, our
kids can eat spicy food, right?
And so that is something thatdevelops over time. So we've got
(20:35):
to have some foods to satisfythem too. And I think curry is
one of those weird words likepeople who don't eat it, whether
it be Thai or Indian, like I'vehad relatives who just say like,
I don't like curry. Curry. It'ssuch a generic term, like how do
you use the term like what iscurry mean and Thai cuisine. So
curry, in Thai cuisine, I thinkis very different from what most
(21:01):
people imagine a curry is. Firstof all, there are many of our
curries that doesn't actuallycontain the dry spices that that
people associate with curry.
There's no curry powder. There'snothing. Most of our curries are
made from fresh herbs that areground up into a paste. Some of
(21:21):
them have some dry spices, butthe spices are not the main
ingredient. And so in Thaicuisine, the word curry refers
to dishes that are made usingcurry paste as the main source
of flavor. And curry paste isnothing more than just ground up
herbs and spices as I said, andthen usually we will use coconut
(21:44):
milk as a liquid. But we alsohave curries that don't use any
coconut milk, but they use wateras a liquid and it will become a
lot lighter. A lot. soupier Thaicurries are not like Indian
curry where it's not thick. Itcan be very light and thin. And
usually, texturally it wouldlook more like a soup than a
(22:04):
stew.
I think a lot of people whenthey think curry, what they're
talking about is the flavor ofcurry powder. Like like like
Indian like Indian curry powder.
Yeah. Yeah. Or the generic currypowder that like if you go into
a Safeway or a Walmart and yougrab a thing labeled as curry
powder, heavy on tumeric. Andyou know, very, like that yellow
(22:26):
powder. Yeah, that yellowpowder. Right. And I think
people associate that withcurry. Even if you make Indian
curry like they, there's a hugerange of flavors from Indian
curry that you can't really justput one flavor to it either. But
I think that in the West, thatis what they're thinking of when
they are thinking of curryflavor. Well, I think sometimes
(22:49):
people need a reference point.
And that's where you kind of godown this path because you're
trying to describe something, Ithink that's why we use the term
like, it's a Thai taco or, youknow, it's high, whatever.
Because it's easier than saying,Well, it's a taco with peanuts
and lime and, and whatever. Sowe just like pick a generic,
(23:11):
like people say, Oh, this is aVietnamese, whatever. And
they'll just, it just means it'sgot fish sauce and lime and
whatever. But it's not reallyVietnamese, you know? Yeah, I
know. I know exactly what youmean. People are trying to give
some sort of an easydescription. Yeah, it's hard
when people aren't reallyfamiliar with those cuisines. So
it's kind of a double edgedsword there because you don't
want to miss describe the dish.
But how do you convey that topeople who maybe don't know?
(23:33):
Well, I'd love to talk aboutyour new cookbook a little bit.
Because I've got the book. Itlooks great. I think people are
going to really love this. Howdoes this book differ from your
previous cookbook? So my firstcookbook Hot Thai kitchen, I had
so much knowledge that I wantedto share that I couldn't share
(23:54):
in the video form. Because inthe video, each one is a recipe.
Each one is small and bite size.
But I wanted to expand on thefoundational knowledge of Thai
cuisine. It's like, what is theThai curry? We talked about
that, you know, what is a Thaistir fry? How does that differ
from a Chinese stir fry? Sothere was a lot of like textbook
(24:14):
key nerdy knowledge in my firstbook. And the recipes provided
was I chose ones that reallyrepresented what a Thai curry is
like and sort of broke them downinto their components. So it was
it was all very good if you wantto like, really study Thai
cuisine. My second book, I feellike what I was missing is a
(24:37):
resource to help people cookThai food easily and regularly.
Like, you know, for my firstbook, it's like, that's a
weekend project book. This oneis a Tuesday night book. And I
realized that I don't have thateven though I have a lot of easy
recipes on the website. There'sno obvious way like you got to
browse them. You got to look fora thing you got to see
Unknown (25:00):
See how difficult it is. So I wanted like a book
where if you grab this off of ashelf, you can turn to any page,
anything that catches your eye,I promise you, you can do it on
a weeknight. So that's what Iwanted this book to be is
something that you can actuallycook from without having to
think too much about it. And Ithink fortunately, the
(25:21):
availability of ingredientsright now is amazing, you know,
had this book come out 10 yearsor even earlier. It's like,
great, but where do I get that?
You know, I don't live in a hugecity. But you know, we have a
number of Asian grocery storeshere and we have an h Mart,
which is fantastic. And I don'tthink there's a single
ingredient that I wouldn't beable to find in there. If
(25:41):
someone wants to stock theirpantry to make a lot of these
dishes, if there were like fivethings that they should just go
if they're going to an Asiangrocery store and get what would
those be? I will say that in mybook, there's a section and I
have two lists, lists that arelike must haves if you want to
cook Thai regularly and listthat's like, nice to have, but
it's not necessary. Okay, so onthe must have unique fish sauce,
(26:04):
which you can get like even atWalmart, I think like it's do
you have a favorite fish sauce?
Yes. And it's changed. So myfavorite everyday fish sauce is
now mega chef. Okay?
Pailin (26:21):
But three crabs or red boat squid. Those are all fine
choices. So fish sauce, you needsoy sauce. If you can get Thai
sauce, that's great because it'sa little different, but if not
the Kikkoman will work. You needoyster sauce of some sort. And
then you need coconut milk andthe fifth one, I would probably
(26:46):
say Tamarinand how does that come? Are you
talking like the bricks are likea jarred product you can do both
the jarred product is easy touse. And it's if you're not
going to like get super deepinto Thai cooking, it's fine.
But if you make your owntamarind paste from the break of
pulp, it will taste better.
(27:11):
Yeah, and it's absolutely notthat's pretty and that's easy to
do. Oh, it's totally easy to dolike making Tamarin is something
Thai people make. Like we don'teven make it in bulk we make it
whenever we're going to cooksomething with it, it's that
easy, because all you need to dois soak it in some hot water,
just plain water will work aswell. And you just massage the
pulp into the liquid that youjust need to pump and water just
(27:34):
pump and water. It's basicallythe tamarind, the cooking
tamarind that we use isbasically diluted Tamarin pulp.
So when you're buying the jar,you're paying mostly for water.
Oh, 100% you're paying forprocessing? Yeah, yeah. And then
you might not use that jar, I'msure that goes off quicker than
having the pulp. So it justmakes sense to buy a little Paul
(27:55):
never goes bad. It's amazingbecause it's so acidic. So it
lasts forever. And once you makeit you can freeze, whatever you
don't use into little ice cubes.
And you can take it out a littlebit at a time, I find one of the
hardest products to find arelime leaves like that they're
kind of hit or miss. And thoseare completely edible, right?
You don't have to remove them ordo you. So it depends. If you
(28:17):
put them whole in a soup, whichwe often do. It's like a bayleaf
it's too chewy. Okay, eat awhole leaf. But if you finally
julienne them, you can totallyeat it. Yeah, I haven't worked
with them enough just a handfultimes, because it seems like
that is the thing that I don'talways have the easiest time
finding, but I love it whenthey're in a ditch, the flavor
(28:40):
is just amazing. Yeah. And ifyou've got a good climate, they
grow pretty easily. A lot ofpeople that follow me have told
me that it's hard for them tofind it. But they can source the
plant or the seed. And it growsin like if you have a warm
climate. Well, why this book,this is something I ask a lot of
cookbook authors, I understandkind of your why but there's an
(29:02):
enormous amount of cookbooks outthere already. And of course
blogs and YouTube. Did you findthis book differs from other
books out there? Or you know,your? Is it your point of view?
You know, because I think it'schallenging to write a book. So
what actually made you say, thisis something that's different,
and I want to put it out in theworld. And I want to do well
(29:23):
from a personal standpoint. So Imake content I make videos I
make you to be it's a it's afair question, why make one in a
book form? And it was a questionthat I asked myself the first
time because people when I didnot have a book, people kept
asking me Do you have a book? Doyou have a book? And I was like,
(29:43):
Why do you want a book? I'malready giving recipes out on
YouTube, like what you know,what do you need, but I realized
that it's very different. fromthe user perspective, it's a
very different thing to hold aphysical book in your hand and
flip through
Chris Spear (30:00):
through and get inspirations and read than to be
on your phone or on yourcomputer browsing through
website. It's an entirelydifferent experience. And people
who are fans of the show want athing that they can hold. So I
realized then that okay, it'sdifferent for the users. But
it's also different for mebecause things that I feel like
(30:20):
the book really gave me freedomto write about whatever I want
to write about, without worryingabout how well it's going to
perform. You know what I mean?
Like I could ramble on aboutstories without war, is the
video going to get too long ortoo boring, I can ramble on
about all these romantic thingsthat I want to talk about. That
wouldn't work well, on theinternet. And you're not
(30:42):
penalized if someone skips apage on your YouTube, if you put
a video out and someone doesn'twatch it, you get penalized. And
then they don't show your videoswith this, if I'm bored with
this page, and I flipped by, itdoesn't hurt anything, right?
Yeah. And I think people who aresitting down with a book are not
in a rush, right? That you'reon, when you're watching
internet videos, it's like youwant to find a video that is not
(31:03):
wasting your time, right. Soyou're clicking through, you're
sad, this is too long, you skipto something else. But when
people are sitting down with abook that they've purchased,
they've already made a decision,this is something they want to
relax with. And even flipping aphysical book back and forth,
like I, a couple years agodecided I have so many
cookbooks, I'm gonna startbuying digital and have them on
(31:24):
a tablet. But I find that Istill don't use those books as
much. It's not the same to like,kind of scan one page by one
page on that tablet, I like tosit down with this, like
physical book, I also think Idon't know is that stuff gonna
go away, you purchase all thesedigital books, and then what's
going to happen in 1015 years,they're going to change the
readers and the formats andwe're not even gonna be able to
(31:45):
access them anymore. So I'm kindof a hoarder in that sense of
survivalists where it's like,I'm not gonna get rid of my
books, my wife will say, but Iknow you have that on digital.
I'm like, Yeah, but like, that'sthe same thing with like, CDs, I
got rid of CDs. And now, thestreaming platforms aren't
carrying some of those albumsanymore, and you can't listen to
them. It's like, I wish I keptmy CD. So that's why I still
(32:05):
have all physical copies of mostof my books. Yeah. And I think
when ebooks came out, peoplewere saying that the zip, this
is the end of paper books, thisis where we're going. And then
here we are. People still wantphysical books, because they're
not the they're totallydifferent experiences, they are
and talking about differentexperiences. In your book, you
(32:27):
have QR codes in there, which Ithink is genius. You know, for
those. I mean, people probablyhaven't seen the book yet,
because it's not actually out.
But there's like a QR code, youhave like a salad roll, and then
there's a code and you scan, andthen it goes to your YouTube and
it shows someone visually how todo it. I think that's such a
genius idea. I've never seenthat before. I actually had that
(32:48):
in my first book. Also, I thinkI was one, which came on 2016.
And I think I was one of thevery first books that started
doing that. But I had all thesevideo content. And and the one
thing that video does win overtext is like showing a
technique. Like you can writeabout it all you want. But
sometimes unless you see it, youdon't really understand
(33:10):
unwrapping a salad roll is oneof those things. Okay? So I
thought, how can I like, tellpeople that there's something
they can watch. And QR codes aregreat, because I can update the
link, so they never break?
Right? If I put a website URL,there's no way to copy and paste
that URL from your book to yourphone, you got to type it out.
(33:32):
And then if that URL everchanges, it's toast, but I can
go back and update the URL tomake sure nothing ever breaks.
So it's just brilliant. Allaround, I think more and more
cookbooks are gonna start tohave that. I do love that I was
in a book this past year. And itwas a book about chefs. And
there were like 50 chefs in thebook. And everyone's bio, in the
(33:55):
back of the book, there was justa list of the 50 chefs with a QR
code. And then it went to liketheir business, their website or
their bio or whatever onlinewhich was really nice. So you
could read more about thatperson. It's also great for
content building because youquite possibly could have people
buy your book who've never seenyour videos or your YouTube and
now you're sending them out toyour YouTube so yeah, I thought
(34:17):
that was really neat. I havenever seen it used like this
before. But yeah, the the visualaspect, I was just talking to
someone. This week, I learned tobutcher a pig's head by watching
Chef Chris Cosentino did like aneight part YouTube series more
than a decade ago, like you canhave butchering books, but like
reading how to like D bone, awhole pig's head. There's no way
reading a book, you're going tobe able to do that. But watching
(34:39):
someone do that in actual videomakes it so much easier. 100% Do
you have any favorite entryrecipes in this new book? Like
if you're new to cooking Thaifood, maybe haven't eaten it so
much. Do you have like two orthree recipes you maybe think
people should start with? Yes.
Pailin (35:00):
So as a general rule of thumb, starting with a curry or
a soup is always a good idea.
Because they go slowly, you cantake your time, and you can
taste and adjust to your heart'sdesire. If you do something like
a stir fry, it's something thatgoes quickly. And it's something
that like, it's harder toadjust, right? If it's too
(35:21):
salty, not salty enough, it'sharder to adjust soups and
curries are much more forgiving.
So I would say, a good startingcurry is the red curry with
pineapple and shrimp. So becausered curry is a place that you
can find anywhere, I mean,anywhere. And then shrimp,
(35:44):
pineapple, like all of these arereally basic things. So that's a
dish you can make without goingto an Asian grocery store, I
still think you should go to anAsian grocery store, because the
choices of curry paste is goingto be better. If you're in a
western store, generally,they'll just have the Thai
Kitchen brand, which is verydiluted in potency compared to a
(36:08):
Thai brand. So like, if I haveto use a Thai Kitchen I have to
use like the whole jar. And thenit's still not spicy enough to
like add a bunch of stuff to it.
You know, if you're if you'revery sensitive to spice maybe
that's a pace that you want tostart with. But if you're ready
to like you know, have someheat, go to your Asian grocery
store and pick a brand that'snot an English. Oh, that's so
(36:29):
overwhelming. Like nothing is inEnglish, just soy sauce for
those people who know thatthere's or think that there's
like two or three like Kiko monor whatever. And then you go
there, like I'm standing there.
I love the serious eats website.
And they quite often have likehow to stock an Asian pantry.
And it's like, here's their 10favorite soy sauces. But I'm
(36:51):
like looking at the phone andlooking on the shelves like
trying to look at the pictureand the words because none of
it's in English. And just tryingto figure out like which one I'm
gonna get. And then I figurelike, probably any of them would
be better than what I could getat like my local grocery store.
Right, exactly, because that's astore catered towards Asian
people. This is why one of mytop performing videos is a video
(37:13):
where he gave a tour of an Asiangrocery store. And if you're
new, I highly recommend going tomy YouTube channel and watching
that, because people areoverwhelmed and I understand it.
I've been there. You know, whenwhen I try to cook Korean food,
I go to H Mart it's like that'sall very unfamiliar to me as
well. So I understand thefeeling. And I think that video
(37:34):
will help
Unknown (37:37):
help you choose at least narrow down your options
of what to get and what not toget. Yeah, when you see a whole
aisle of you know vinegars ormiso paste or something like
that, you know, but again, Ithink if it's something that you
like, you just get one and tryanother one the next time get a
(37:57):
fish sauce, try it, it might notbe to your taste, or it might
not be your favorite gettinganother one the next time.
Although something like a bigbottle of fish sauce, sometimes
take a while takes a while towork through. I'll give you a
little tip. Okay, if you arereally at a loss at a nation
grocery store and you don't knowwhich to choose, price is
generally a good indicator ofquality. And we're not talking
(38:21):
about expensive of Asianingredients are very cheap. But
if you've got like a thing that$6 and a thing that's $4 the $6
one is probably better. So whenin doubt, you can go with that.
And also a lot of stores willhide smaller size bottles on the
top shelf. So if you're thinkingwe're talking about fish sauce,
(38:41):
being like a liter bottle, lookup on the top shelf, sometimes
the smaller bottles are there.
Those are great tips. Yeah, likeI went to buy some show yo not
too long ago and you know,there's a whole bunch of them
but then there's these bottlesthat are like wrapped in paper
and they're like $9 A bottleinstead of $3 A bottle so it's
like I can't read any of thisbut I'm assuming that if I buy
this like nice paper wrap bottlefor $9 It's gonna be so much
(39:03):
better yes 100% And is thereanything better than Tom Yum on
like a cold day when you're sickyou know, like that. That's,
that's my favorite. It just likeopens everything up. You got
some spice in there and that'sone of my favorite dishes to get
you know, even if I'm gonna getlike a big curry after just to
have some and share it with thefamily to start and actually we
(39:24):
never talked about what recipesto actually do. So the we did
talk about the red curry wasshrimp but on the soup side, a
tom yum is great. If you can getthe herbs and you can get the
herbs dried at many places aswell. Dried herbs work well in
soups. Tom yum is great, but TomCA is another one that's really
(39:45):
great for people who don't eat alot of spicy because it's
milder. It's got coconut milk soit's going to be richer. So that
is actually like if when I usedto do it
In classes, I always had atancock guy, which is a coconut
chicken soup on the mix, becauseI know 100% of the time, people
(40:08):
are going to love it. And it'ssuch an easy to love dish. And a
lot of times people are kind ofblown away because it's a flavor
combination that they have neverhad before the same herbs as Tom
Yum, but just a little morecreamy. Yeah, there's something
nice about coconut milk basedsomething you know, you have
that body, because I'm not ahuge soup eater for a meal like
(40:30):
Ali soup, like a tom yam as astarter, but I don't feel like
filled up. So that's why I likesometimes something that has
like that heavy, Fatty, youknow, coconut milk in there
because it feels moresubstantial to me.
Pailin (40:43):
So I want to talk about how to eat Thai food correctly,
because I feel like that'ssomething that you maybe have
some feelings about. I knowyou've got a video on there. And
I'm sure some of it is visual. Idon't know that there's a lot of
cuisines or cultures where I'vehad to, you know, kind of learn
how to eat properly. Do you havesome tips about what that means
(41:05):
and how to eat Thai foodproperly. It's nice. So this is
my latest video and I and I havenever seen a video with more
engagement in the commentsection. So how to eat Thai food
properly. First of all theutensils to use is a fork and a
spoon. And the spoon is what youuse to carry food into your
(41:27):
mouth. Because we have a lot ofsauces in Thai cuisine. Our rice
is jasmine rice, they don'treally stick together very well.
So if you try to eat Thai foodwith a fork, you will have a
hard time because things justdon't stay on the fork very
well. So the fork is there toreally help push food onto the
spoon. So that's the main thing.
And then if you want to spearfood with a fork, you can do
(41:48):
that. But the main thing withthe fork is its helps push
things onto the spoon. Now, itis usually done family style,
which means that most of thedishes are in the in the middle
and you're sharing. Andeverybody starts with a plate of
rice. All of Thai food is eatenwith rice, even soups, even
salad. Are you curries are youstir fries, the flavors are
(42:10):
super strong. If you don't havea plate of rice to go with it,
it's it's too much. It doesn'twork. It's like having, you
know, just the pasta saucewithout the pasta. Basically.
That's what what kind of rice isthis jasmine rice? Oh, always
Jasmine? Yes. And I always tellpeople, This is not a buffet,
you do not load your plate witheverything that you want from
(42:32):
the middle, and then starteating which, you know, it's
funny because coming to NorthAmerica, I see all these things
that I would never think about.
So I start having Thai mealswith friends. And they would
load their plate because at aThanksgiving dinner, Christmas
dinner, that's what you do,right? If you're sharing
something, you compose yourplate with everything that you
(42:55):
want, and then you start eating,but not in Thailand. And I think
in Southeast Asia as well, youtake a little bit of a couple of
things, you finish it, you goback for more. And we do this.
So to make sure that everyonehas gotten a little bit of
everything, so you don't taketoo much. And then you also
never end up with more food thanyou can eat, you're not going to
(43:17):
end up with that Thanksgivingcoma at the end, because you're
literally taking three bites ofsomething at a time. In
Thailand, the only time we sitdown with our own plate of food
is if you're having noodledishes or rice dishes. So for
example, pepti is not somethingyou share with people. They're
(43:38):
like the sandwiches of ourcuisine is something you have
for lunch and when you're byyourself or when you're with
your colleagues, and you justwant to get in and out quickly.
Like we go for pot Thai Potsieyou fried rice, something like
that, like those are completemeals in a dish. But if you're
having dinner with your family,lunch with your family and you
sort of like a quote unquoteregular meal with your family,
(44:00):
it's always family style. Do youeat with chopsticks at all? No,
we know chopsticks. I've seenchopsticks at Thai restaurants
before I know and you know whythey give it because people ask
for it. Because you will ask forit because they think that
chopsticks are like an Asianthing.
Top six just doesn't work withThai food. It's the way we serve
(44:22):
it. We serve rice on a plate. Ifyou try to eat Thai food rice on
a plate with chopsticks, you'regonna have a very hard time.
Okay? Chinese people Japanesepeople can eat rice with
chopsticks because their ricecomes into a bowl. And they use
a chopsticks to sweep thingsinto their mouth. Right? It's a
very different thing. That verydifferent experience. And we use
(44:43):
chopsticks sometimes fornoodles. There are a lot of
people of Chinese descent inThailand. So a lot of them will
like to eat noodles withchopsticks, which is fine but
for rice never.
Chris Spear (44:56):
And I imagine there's like I mean curries,
right likebrothy soupy kind of stuff.
There's no way that thattranslates. There's no way
there's no way. And I and Ithink also, like, people don't
understand that. When I say thisis eaten with rice, I'm not
saying the rice is a side dish,and you'll have a bite of curry
followed by a bite of rice, thecurry and the rice come together
in one bite. So that's why weneed a spoon. If people don't
(45:21):
get anything else from thisepisode, hopefully it will be
how to eat it properly. And I dotons of links and show notes. So
I'll link that video upspecifically so that people can
check that out. Because I thinkit's also a visual that they
would appreciate. Yes, yes,totally. So so many of my
listeners are content creators.
And I want to talk a little bitabout the YouTube channel, kind
(45:44):
of specifics, because you have aenormous following, you know,
more than most you're probablyin, you know, like the top 5%.
If not 1% of subscribers, youhave almost 2 million
subscribers. What was thattrajectory? Like? Did you start
off? And it's been kind of aslow build, was there some viral
content? How did you get to bethat huge on YouTube, I have
(46:07):
been doing YouTube since 2009,that's a very long time. Slow
build is exactly what that is.
And I want this to beencouraging to people is a lot,
you see a lot of
Pailin (46:20):
newcomers who just explode onto the scene, you
know, suddenly, you've neverheard of them before. And
suddenly, they're got like 2million subscribers. And that
can happen. But there are also alot of channels who are
successful because of slow andsteady growth. And in fact, I
would argue that if you canmanage slow and steady growth,
(46:41):
you will be more stable. Becauseif people find you from one
piece of content that wentviral, they may not come back,
you know, they may not come backagain. Because you and we see
this a lot with short formcontent now short, you know,
video 100%, or YouTube shortswill get 5 million views. And
(47:01):
those views don't return. Oh,yeah, I have shorts that are
like, I'll have like 500 or 800.
And then one will be like12,000. And then the next one's
like 1000 or 700. It's likepeople came because of this one
clip because something was maybecontroversial or something and
then the comments blew off and,and then you kind of lose that
traction. Yeah. But if you builda channel, that is, has a solid
(47:23):
foundation of resources. Solike, for example, if people
come to my channel, if you'relooking for Thai dish, you're
going to find it unless it'ssome obscure thing. Like if
you're looking something on yourThai restaurant menu, you're
going to find something at leastsimilar to that. So if you build
a solid foundation of resourcesthat answers the questions that
people are coming to you forwhatever cuisine or kind of food
(47:47):
you specialize in. But thatfoundation of resources have to
build over time. Right? So ittakes time it takes patience.
But But keeping, I think it'salways helpful to keep in mind
to think about the viewers, whatproblems can you help them
solve? What questions might theyhave? And then try to answer
(48:08):
that questions, try to have ananswer for as many questions as
you can possibly do. And thenover time, you will become
again, stable and solid. Andpeople can keep coming back.
Because that's what you wantpeople coming back to you,
because they have come to trustyou as an authority and as a
reference. And I think if you'reengaging with your community,
(48:30):
you have a pretty firm handle onwhat they're looking for. And if
you are the type of person whoresponds to comments, and people
know that, then it's easy,because people will say to you,
but how do you cook rice? Orwhat's the best walk to buy or
whatever? And hopefully, you'regetting that info, where you're
then you know what content tocreate, because people are
specifically asking for that?
(48:52):
Yeah, for sure. Do you have anyfinal words for our listeners
today? Before we get out ofhere, anything that we haven't
addressed? I'm sure we couldtalk all day about Thai food and
cooking and so forth. But isthere anything that you really
want to share before we leave? Ithink if we're speaking to
content creators, because Ithink even if you're not a
content creator for a living, ifyou're a private chef or
(49:15):
whatever, Chef, you probablyhave some sort of a social media
channel.
I think my, my final word wouldbe done is better than perfect.
I just came back from aconference, a food bloggers
conference, I met a lot of foodbloggers who are thinking about
having a YouTube channel, butthey're trying to figure out
(49:36):
what is the best thing to do,what is the best angle and how
to and I think the best way tofigure out what to do is to do
it. And if it goes terriblywrong, you can always delete the
video. You don't have to postit. Or you can post it if it
doesn't do well and you'reembarrassed about it. You can
always take it back but the onlyway to know is to put it out
(49:57):
there and I think I was
Chris Spear (50:00):
blast when I started my YouTube channel,
there weren't a lot out there.
So I didn't have anything tocompare myself to. And I didn't
think twice about it. Like, Iliterally thought, oh, I can do
this now. Great, do it. Let's doit. And I think it's much harder
to do these days, because you'vegot so many points of
comparison. But if you canpretend that you're in your own
(50:20):
world and just post whatever youwant, you will get there much
faster. And if we get a littlethick skin, because people love
to come in the comments andcomment on what you're doing,
trust me, it is not easy. AnyYouTuber who says comments don't
get to them is not telling youthe truth. But they've just
learned to let it go muchquicker. So I remember early,
(50:43):
early in my career, I used toget, like a negative comment
would like hang with me for likea whole day, you know, but now
I've learned to see the humor init, I've learned to realize that
I don't necessarily understandwhat people are going through.
And so there might be a lot ofhurt a lot of stress that
(51:04):
they're taking out on the world.
And now a comment will get to mefor you know, a couple of
minutes, and then I can shake itoff. But that took a lot to get
to this point. So if it's takingyou a little bit more like know
that that's normal, but worktowards it, and know that it's
never about you. And commentsequal engagement and engagement
(51:26):
pumps you up a little bit. So,you know, I try and take a light
hearted approach to it and tryand be funny in my responses
because, you know, it is what itis I did a video the other day
and I talked about washingmushrooms, which apparently is
really controversial because Iwashed my mushrooms because they
were super dirty. And then Ispotted them dry in a salad
spinner. And all these peoplecame and said, you don't wash
(51:47):
your mushrooms, they're gonna bereally wet. And I said like,
here's an experiment and HaroldMcGee talks about this, like
weigh your mushrooms, then washyour mushrooms, dry them, weigh
them again and tell me how muchheavier they are. Because I can
almost guarantee you there's nolike water absorption, like if
you're just running water overthem. But like all these chef
bros came for me in the commentsabout how like, I'm just gonna
(52:09):
have water mushrooms, andthey're not gonna say tan brown.
Literally, there's a video ofthem being like super Brown, and
golden. So it wasn't that theysteamed but everyone wanted to
argue about it. But it's like,keep arguing about it in the
comments, because it's justmaking this become one of my
most like, viewed videos thisweek. So Have at it, you know,
and just so you know, I am amushroom washer, too. Yes,
(52:31):
they're so dirt. They're sodirty. I mean, I get some of
these and they're covered,especially if you buy the ones
on the package. Like if you'rebuying them in bulk and loose, I
feel like they're cleaned up alittle bit. But when you get
the, like containers of them, Itake them off and there's like
dirt everywhere. It's like, I amdefinitely washing these at
night. What are you gonna do sitthere with a brush and brush
them individually, like, no timefor now. But people are funny
(52:52):
like that. Everyone's got theiropinions and especially when I'm
sure with you like authenticcuisine and traditional cooking
styles. I'm sure there's tons ofpeople who let's that's not how
their grandmother did it, orwhatever. And they feel they
need to come and tell you thatI'm sure right for sure. Which
is why I always say comments areabout the commenter not about
you. Yes. Good. Good advice foreveryone out there who's
(53:15):
creating content. And I thinkthat's probably almost everyone
who listens to the show, even ifit's just an Instagram page.
Well, thanks again for comingon. I love the book. I can't
wait to share this episode witheveryone. Again, it'll be linked
so people hopefully go buy yourbook. And then they can find you
on all your channels and learnto be a better tie cook. Thank
(53:37):
you so much for having me. Thisis great fun. And as always,
this has been Chris with theChefs Without Restaurants
podcast. Thanks so much and havea great week. Go to chefs
without restaurants.org To findour Facebook group, mailing list
and Chef database. The communityis free to join. You'll get gig
opportunities, advice onbuilding and growing your
business and you'll never missan episode of our podcast. Have
(53:59):
a great week.
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