March 23, 2023 • 49 mins
This week on Chefs Without Restaurants we have Christine Flynn, the proprietor of The Good Earth Winery in Ontario, Canada, and executive chef and partner at iQ Food Co. She recently released her second cookbook, "A Generous Meal."
We talk about her culinary background, including her early love of food and cooking, and how her parents' three-bite rule helped her develop her palate. We discuss her cooking style, which she describes as elevated home cooking that is both approachable and affordable. Christine believes that everyone deserves to eat beautiful food, and the recipes in her book are both flavor-packed and easy to execute.
She discusses her love for creating a beautiful life and how making food and clothes are part of that. Flynn finds inspiration from design, cozy aesthetics, places she’s been, music, and art. Christine discusses her approach to sustainability and cooking. Her expertise in using leftovers to create different meals is something she takes pride in and wants to teach others to do. She emphasizes that her approach is all about having fun and being creative.
Christine was also behind the viral Instagram account Jacques La Merde in 2015 & 2016. Jacques was known for his overly-worked and tweezered creations. They were elaborated interpretations of junk food. Think…the Michelin version of a Big Mac. While she had fun with it, she’s left her Jacques days behind her, focusing more on family cooking these days.
CHRISTINE FLYNN
Christine's Instagram
Buy the Cookbook A Generous Meal
Christine's Recipe for Eggplant Parmesan
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chris Spear (00:00):
This week on Chefs Without Restaurants I have
Christine Flynn. She's theproprietor of the good Earth
winery, partner at the goodEarth Farm in Ontario, Canada
and executive chef and partnerat IQ food co, a restaurant
group with multiple locations inToronto. Christine recently
released her second cookbook, agenerous meal and came by the
show to talk about it and awhole lot more. This is Chris
(00:23):
spear. And you're listening toChefs Without Restaurants, the
show where I speak with culinaryentrepreneurs and people working
in the food and beverageindustry outside of a
traditional restaurant setting.
Hello, everyone, I hope you'reall doing tremendous, or is that
tremendously? I'm not reallysure. Anyway, I'm still battling
a bout of bronchitis. So onceagain, I'm going to keep this
(00:44):
intro short and sweet because mythoughts a little gravelly. Also
notice the people across thestreet finally have their yard
people here and there's some Idon't know, leaf blowers.
chainsaws are nonsense, so youdon't need to hear all that. So
let's get to it. Christine's newbook came out a few weeks ago,
and I think you're gonna loveit. I feel like it finds the
sweet spot between being acookbook that chefs will like
full of flavor packed recipes,but also having recipes that are
(01:06):
relatively easy to execute quickand won't break the bank. If
you're looking for someinnovative ways to use a head of
cabbage and some beans, this isthe book for you. Christina is
also a food writer, stylist andphotographer. And if her name is
familiar, but you're not surewhere you might know her from
she was also the person behindthe Instagram account Jacques La
Merde back in 2015 2016. Forthose of you who aren't up on
(01:29):
their French, La Merde literallymeans the shit. Jacques was
known for his overly worked andtweezers plates of beautiful
food. But the dishes werecomposed of junk food, think
modernise take on a Big Mac. Andwhile she had fun with it at the
time, Christine has moved pasther jock days. Like myself,
she's a parent of twins, andsays that these days, she's more
(01:50):
focused on family cooking, eventalk a little bit about cooking
with kids on the show. I askedChristine about her views on
sustainability and what thatmeans to her. And we just have a
really great conversation aboutthe cookbook, some of the
recipes, her techniques and howshe likes to produce food these
days. So I'm gonna jump out ofhere and let you listen to the
show. You can find links to hersocial media pages, her new
(02:11):
cookbook and everything in theshow notes as usual. And if
you're enjoying the show, pleaseshare it. Let people know about
the Chefs Without Restaurantspodcast, I'd really appreciate
it. Thanks for taking the timeto listen to me and the show.
And I hope you have a great day.
Hi, Christine. Welcome to theshow. Thanks so much for coming
on.
Christine Flynn (02:30):
Thanks for having me.
Chris Spear (02:31):
It's great to have you here today. I can't wait to
talk to you about your newcookbook and all the really cool
things you're doing in the foodand beverage world.
Christine Flynn (02:38):
Thank you.
Chris Spear (02:39):
So before we kind of dive into what you do now and
the book and everything, Ialways like to start the show
with a little bit of likeculinary backstory. Are you have
you been a lifelong food person?
Like did you grow up loving foodand cooking and kind of how did
you get into this whole weirdwild world of food and
beverages?
Christine Flynn (02:57):
I mean, I've always loved food. My family
moved a lot when I was little wemoved I think seven times before
I was nine. That's a lot. It isa lot. Yeah, Nova Scotia to
England to Alberta, which is theCanadian equivalent of the
Midwest, I would say, and backeast and then sort of central.
(03:20):
So we moved many times. And oneof the ways that I think my
parents sort of compensated forall the disruption was by having
a very consistent dinnerschedule. So we ate dinner
together as a family pretty muchevery night. And we a home
(03:41):
cooked meals. So I was alwayskind of poking around the stove
and seeing what was going on.
And I think every kid wants to,you know, mimic their parents.
And so I got into cooking quiteearly. I think the first time I
picked up a knife I was aboutfive. And so yeah, I've just
always I've always eaten andI've always cooked
Chris Spear (04:03):
and not picky eater when you were a kid. We weren't
really
Christine Flynn (04:07):
allowed to be picky. My parents had a three
bite rule. So you had to trythree bites of everything, which
I think helps build a palettefrom a very young age. And I
think that the other thing wasthat with all the moves, I mean,
my dad went back to school whenI was quite young. You know, you
(04:29):
you get what you get, you don'tget upset. So it wasn't like we
didn't like something there wasan alternative was like, Hey,
we're having beef tongue fordinner. If you don't want it.
You just go to
Chris Spear (04:39):
bed. I love it. I mean that's how I was raised to
in the 80s you know and now it'slike my son could probably do to
put on some weight and we talkedto his doctor and they're just
like, well if he doesn't want toeat don't make them eat and have
some always available stuff. I'mlike alright, like are you
kidding my dad never would havelet me just like get up and like
not eat the dinner my mom madeand make like a peanut butter
sandwich. I remember sitting infront of like this pile of
(04:59):
butternut squash for like twohours at the dinner table, they
say you're not supposed to dothat anymore. I don't know, I
haven't done it with my kids.
But I think it made me less of aparticular eater as a kid. And
similar to you, like I lovedbeing around my my mom,
particularly who cooked all thetime. And that just instilled
the love of cooking in me.
Christine Flynn (05:17):
Yeah, and I think as you get older, you
realize how important it is,particularly if you travel or,
you know, working in theindustry. Even if you're in the
back, you end up at some, youend up at some fancy dinners
every once in a while, you know,and I've had the good fortune to
be in a few over the years. Andyou want to know how to behave.
(05:38):
You don't want to be the personwho's sitting there not knowing
which fork to use or is likefreaked out by the lamb brains
on your play, you know, you wantto just be able to, to eat and
enjoy and go after those tastesand experiences. And I want my
kids to have that. I really do.
I think it's one of the mostimportant things that's driven,
driven me both in my career andin all the places that I've been
(05:59):
is just, I'm hungry. And I'mcurious. And I don't have to
know exactly, you know, what'sgoing to happen. And that's the
great thing about beingcomfortable with food and around
food and being able to movebetween worlds as I think most
chefs are,
Chris Spear (06:15):
and it brings people together, you know, being
around a dinner table, whetherit be family or friends. And,
you know, that's what I lovewith this, you know, food and
beverage industry. It's what'skept me here for so many years.
I know you've been around,you've lived in different places
worked in different places. Butyou're back in Canada now. So
what are you doing on a day today for work? Oh, boy. Well of
(06:35):
everything.
Christine Flynn (06:36):
Yeah, currently, I I'm actually
running a winery in Niagara. Andamongst other things, I you
know, I still have multiplejobs. But I'm, I'm partnered in
a restaurant group in Toronto.
And we do sort of a healthy,fast casual, it's very high
volume experience. So I consulton the menu there. It's very
(06:56):
vegetable forward, but it's alsoscratch made. So I develop those
recipes. And I've been doingthat for about 10 years. And
that's been really fun, becauseI learned how to cook in a very
different way. You know, I'm oneof the only chefs I know who has
really mastered making soup anda rationale oven. You know, we
bake all our soups, there.
Chris Spear (07:19):
That's interesting.
I've never, I've never seenbaked soup before. Is that just
like, because you had therationale oven and you figured
out how to do it
Christine Flynn (07:25):
is well, no, I mean, we use the I leverage the
rationale. But it's because wedon't have any range. Like all
we have at those at thoserestaurants. And there's nine of
them. Currently, we grew up fromtwo locations when we started.
There's no other way to cooksoup. It's just like you put it
in the oven, and you figure itout. So that's one very specific
(07:45):
way of cooking. But then sort ofwhen the when the pandemic
popped off, I was on furloughfor a while. And then I went
back to reduced hours. I kind ofwrote this book, a generous
meal, did some consulting did acouple other things. And one of
the things I was doing was justkind of part time, social media
(08:06):
of all things for a winery. Andthen the winery was sold. And
then the guy who bought it waslooking for someone with a
really specific skill set with abackground in events in
culinary, you know, in front ofhouse in marketing, and I ticked
every box. And so now I run it.
But digging into the things Ilike so I teach cooking classes
(08:30):
here, like do you enjoy themarketing piece and the branding
piece, I have a lot ofexperience in that. But I really
I like cooking, like in theclasses. And it's a nice balance
between my background, workingnights and restaurants, which I
don't really want to do anymorewith two five year olds. And
(08:50):
also just like I'm able tointeract with the guests in a
more meaningful way. So they'redemonstration style cooking
classes, and they're great. Andevery once in a while I cook
dinner. So we have st Patty'sday on Friday, and I'll do you
know, kind of six courses and goall in and make a really Swan
yay. And but I'll do it forlike, you know, 18 people.
Chris Spear (09:11):
So is it like fancy are pretty traditional for the
St. Patty's Day?
Christine Flynn (09:15):
Oh, well, I'm ethnically Irish. So I don't
know. I mean, I'm doing elevatedhome cooking, which is what I
like to do. You know, I want tomake food that tastes like
something your grandma wouldmake if your grandma was a
really good cook, but I want tomake it look a little bit. You
know, like a little bit morefine dining, but approachable.
(09:36):
Like I think my goal as a chefis to really hit that sweet spot
between aspirational andattainable and that's what I try
to do in my books. I believeeveryone deserves to eat
beautiful food. I don't think ithas to cost that much. I think
you can get pretty far with acabbage. So that's really what I
that's how I like to cook. I'mnot fussy, you know?
Chris Spear (09:57):
Yeah. Did you say in your book that you always
have cabbage in the fridge orsomething, I think that was like
the headnote of one of yourrecipes. Yeah, I
Christine Flynn (10:03):
have a whole essay, I actually compare myself
to a cabbage in a complementaryway.
Chris Spear (10:08):
Now I have some Irish in me and I grew up
outside of Boston so very muchwith the, you know, New England
boiled dinner, corned beef andcabbage kind of thing. And as
I've moved around the countryhave had to kind of reinterpret
that sometimes depending onwhere I am to make it a little
upscale. So totally with you onthat.
Christine Flynn (10:25):
No, one of the dishes I'm doing is actually is
corned beef and cabbage. So I'mgoing to make almost like a
corned beef like farce and thenput it in a savoy cabbage and
then I wrap it and call fat. Andthen you know, roasted and it's
really delicious. And all thecomponents of corned beef are
there, but it's this beautifullittle package. And, you know,
(10:46):
it looks like something that weserved at the Michelin starred
restaurant I worked at inBurgundy.
Chris Spear (10:50):
Wow, I want to do that I've got the corned beef,
I've got the cabbage on handright now, I wasn't thinking
about going super fancy at myhouse for dinner. But I might
have to rethink that. Well, Ilove the area that you are in my
wife and I and kids went up tolike Niagara on the Lake this
past summer. And I just thoughtit was so beautiful up there, I
was amazed at the produce, youknow, just because I always
(11:11):
think of it as kind of being youknow, it's Northern, and I was
kind of picturing it to becooler, but just the, like
peaches, people like they, Ididn't realize, you know,
they're like, We have the bestpeaches in the world. And like,
come on, that's Georgia, but thepeaches were the peaches were
delicious. And they are
Christine Flynn (11:25):
good peaches. I don't know, I've had some pretty
good Georgia peaches too. Butyeah, we have abundant produce
here. And, and again, for mehaving lived kind of all over
the world, like I'm very happyin Niagara, because we have such
great access to produce. And weare, I think at an interesting
time in the food culture here,where we are developing our own
(11:47):
sense of Niagara regionalism interms of cuisine, and it's, it's
kind of neat to be on the groundlevel of that, not the ground
level, I shouldn't say that. Butin the mix, you know, as as
we're kind of expressing it.
Because Canadian cooking,really, for a long time. It's
only identity was that it wasn'tAmerica, right? Or the routine
(12:10):
here. And now, you know, in thelast kind of 1015 years, you've
seen chefs more stepping in toregional cooking in a more
meaningful way than just youknow, Montreal and Quebec, very
much had a grip on it a littlebit earlier. But you're seeing
kind of, you know, differentareas of the country really
express themselves. And for me,it's always going back to the
(12:31):
old recipes, right? And even ifit's, you know, your grandma's
cookbooks, or whatever, from,you know, the woman's
Association in town, likereading those old recipes, and
figuring out how to serve thatin a way that feels both, like,
timeless and timely. That's whatI that's the kind of food that I
like to eat. Oh, yeah,
Chris Spear (12:53):
I love those. I just had a podcast guest a
couple of weeks ago. And hiswhole thing is he's has like a
Instagram and YouTube channel.
And He resurrects like those oldrecipes and has like a thing
called like, bring it back orstay in the past. And he like,
finds these random, like,women's society cookbooks. And
we'll pull out some recipe thatsounds like it's gonna be a
train wreck. And then he makesit and kind of gives a breakdown
as to, like whether we shouldmaybe not make it but more often
(13:14):
than not, he's like, this is youknow, really delicious. And then
you can possibly bump it up anotch and put a modernist twist.
And
Christine Flynn (13:23):
I think they were taking the time and there
was a level of there was a levelof attention to detail to which
I don't think that the averageperson who cooks at home, a lot
of people, for them, it's it'sreally function is really just
getting a meal on the table. Andwhat I really try and encourage
(13:44):
people to do is, you know, notlook at cooking so much as like
this thing that you have to do,but like this thing that you
want to do, because it'sactually pretty great, right?
Like cooking, you have to makethe whole meal. And I I'm very
clear about that. I don't dothat every night. You know, I do
cook dinner every night, somepart of it. But there's a lot of
(14:04):
things I just don't like, I'mnot going to make that you know,
but I am going to spend 20minutes with this cabbage and a
500 degree oven and makesomething beautiful. But I love
cooking. Because it's like alittle problem you can solve
every day, right? And there's somany problems you can't solve,
but like problem of what's fordinner, like just to kind of
really like stick in and enjoythat as an activity. And to kind
(14:26):
of value your ingredients, whichis something that you know, like
my grandmother's didn't wasteanything. And even my mom did a
pretty good job and with foodbut also I grew up with a mom
who darned our tube socks, youknow, like, it was just a
completely different world. Andsomewhere we kind of went off
track and bringing those kind ofold values back those old
(14:47):
recipes. I'm probably not goingto darn tube socks, but I'll
have you know, I'll amend a pairof jeans every once in a while.
Chris Spear (14:55):
Well I think having a good stocked pantry and that's
in your cookbook, you know,people joke that like they
opened my fridge and it's amillion condiments but they
could go with literally anythingyou could have a her recipes and
that could go with a chicken ora fillet of fish or rub it on
beat. Like if you just have awell stocked pantry of
condiments and you know a bunchof grains and dry goods and
beans and whatever, you can puttogether a pretty good flavor
(15:18):
packed meal in just a handful ofminutes. Absolutely, yeah, I
Christine Flynn (15:21):
make a I make a spicy honey. And it's available
like all over North America. Andpeople always like what do I do
with it. And I was like, you cando literally anything with it.
Like it's a starter for a saladdressing. You can dress a
chicken in it, you can roast abunch of carrots and like plunk
them in a puddle of yogurt anddrizzle it all over top. And
it's like a fancy adjacent side,you know, and it's just a couple
(15:43):
smart condiments. big ol bottleof white vinegar, probably one
of my favorite ones. And andyeah, you can absolutely make
something out of nothing. Thattastes good. And I think
nourishes you in more ways thanone.
Chris Spear (15:58):
Well, I love the cookbook. And one of the things
you know, I think we're in agreat time for cookbooks.
Because, you know, as a chef, Ilike those Sheffy kind of
restaurant cookbooks, but Idon't think I've ever made
anything from them. Like, hasanyone made anything from like
the Noma cookbook, like notputting anyone on blast, but it
just, you know, comes to mind,like I have all these coffee
table books and books that Ilook through for inspiration.
(16:19):
And then don't make anything andthen there was always kind of
like, the cookbooks that I feltwere kind of mundane and boring
I wasn't interested in and now Isee these chefs making really
great cookbooks, where all therecipes are approachable,
they're affordable, they'refast, but it still feels like a
very chef driven recipe. And Ithink that's where your book
falls in. If you don't mind,that kind of generalization of
(16:40):
your bones. I think it's, it'sgreat. It's like the kind of
book that I want to cook fromthese days. And the books that I
I've been using more recentlythan not.
Christine Flynn (16:49):
Yeah, I think, for me, I mean, this book is a
very much a love letter to mycareer, but also to, to my
family and the ways that mycooking has changed. And, you
know, I mean, 10 years ago, Iwasn't cooking like this,
because I wasn't cooking for mykids, you know, and I wasn't I
(17:11):
didn't care how much things costor how long they took, and I
cared about, you know, my chefcrowd or whatever, and I don't
really care about my show. Like,it's fine, you know, but like, I
really, like I again, I lovekind of like this little food
challenge at the end of the day.
And I like I like when myhusband turns to me, and he
(17:32):
says, you know, oh, I couldreally go for a Big Mac. And I
think, Okay, I'm gonna make youthat, but it's gonna be a salad,
you know. And so kind of teasingout these flavors that we love.
Using smart techniques from, youknow, my whole career. And
sometimes I don't even realizethat those little touches that I
do are anything exceptionalbecause as chefs as cooks, this
(17:54):
stuff is just de rigueur, likeit's just more more like, you
know, you know, to do X, Y, andZed because it's just been
beaten into you. Not literally,but But you just know all these
little things that other peoplelook at and you're like, oh my
gosh, you know, even teachingpeople to season with acid as
opposed to just reaching forsalt and pepper. Or how far like
(18:16):
a fistful of herbs can go andmaking a dish feel, you know,
lighter and more compelling orwhich herbs to use, like these,
it's just these little touches,that takes the home cook to the
next level. And I love kind ofcreating that roadmap for them
in a way that still feelsrelatable, and and achievable
(18:39):
for sure.
Chris Spear (18:44):
Yeah, I have a friend who as oil and vinegar
shop in town and she always haspeople ask her like, how do you
use vinegar? And to me that'slike, mind blowing like What do
you mean how to use vinegar? Iprobably have 15 coins in my
pantry at home I use it inliterally everything from a
splash and a soup to on top ofchicken as it comes out of the
oven. Like to me it's justsurprising that people have
(19:04):
questions like you said with ahot honey like I thought
everyone knew how to use hothoney, you can find it in every
grocery store your mouth. Yeah,it's honey, which can go on
anything and hot food goes onanything too. Yeah, it
Christine Flynn (19:17):
and but I think too people are so they're
disconnected from food in a lotof ways to or they're nervous
about it. You know, I mean, Iuse the white vinegar I use just
big bottles of it. And I alsowill infuse it right like you
know in spring I take all thechive blossoms don't my white
vinegar over and I just havethat all year. People like to
(19:38):
keep it in the fridge. Where doyou keep it? What do you use it
for? Does it go bad? I don'tlike is vinegar like? No, it
can't go bad. You know, it's oneof the main preservatives. So
yeah, I think that's also forme. Why I really like teaching
the classes here at the goodEarth because you really you're
(19:58):
you're face to face with peopleteaching them how to cook. And
you really start to learn whatpeople don't know. And again,
we're in this bubble, right?
Like, we're cooks, we talked toother cooks, or we talked to
like our spouses or friends who,even that, like there's kind of
a level of knowledge. But whenyou just meet the average person
on the street, you can be, youknow, tosses out. And they're
like, what is that? And then youhave to explain that it's a
(20:19):
regular, but they've just neverseen it.
Chris Spear (20:22):
I did a pop up dinner this weekend. And there
was we had like a chef'scounter, and one of the guys
sitting there had no idea whatlike anything was. And it was
just because I was talking tothe whole dinner and like
everything I took out, he'd belike, what's that? And to me, it
was all very basic,straightforward stuff. It's
like, you mean, you've neverlike you've never seen grits
before. And then I've got like,collard greens is like, I've
(20:44):
never had those, what kind ofgreens are that? I'm like, you
know, like, I was like, in his30s, like, almost 40. I'm like,
really, like, you don't knowthese ingredients. It wasn't
like some exotic thing fromanother country, the other side
of the world, but the things wetake for granted.
Christine Flynn (20:58):
Yeah, it's interesting, and the access that
we have. And also, I think allall cooks, you know, kind of
worth their salt, have a levelof curiosity, right. And we're
always reading, we're always,you know, we're always going to
events, we're always looking atwhat other chefs are doing. And,
again, I think we don't evenrealize how much we know, you
(21:20):
know.
Chris Spear (21:21):
So why tackle a cookbook? I mean, I know we all
have personal things to sayabout cooking and recipes. But
there's 1000s of cookbooks outthere, you know, it just seems
like a daunting task to beginwith. So you have to probably
really be driven and committedto do this. So what made you
want to do that as anundertaking?
Christine Flynn (21:41):
Well, it's funny, it's driven and committed
are two words I would use todescribe myself. But yeah, I
mean, this this cookbook, inparticular, I feel like these
are recipes that are reallytremendously useful. And I don't
think that there are too toomany cookbooks, which do
celebrate humble ingredientslike cabbage and like potatoes,
(22:05):
and which really also highlightvegetables. In a way though,
where it's not. It's not avegetarian cookbook, by any
stretch of the imagination,there's a section dedicated to
meats, but I think it is amodern way of cooking in a
modern way of eating. And it'san interesting thing to write
because it was all written andtested during COVID. And I live
(22:27):
in a small town at the time. Imean, I had an adult roommate,
but I was, you know, living onmy own with two kids who are at
the time were about three. So itwasn't like I was able to like
run to the grocery store. And weweren't even able to go to the
grocery store for a littlewhile. So everything that I was
sourcing for this book was, youknow, pantry items really cheap.
(22:49):
The way that publishing works inCanada, like you really don't
get a big chunk of that advance.
So it was kind of all out ofpocket for me. But the result is
all these recipes are, you know,within reason, I would say like
really affordable to make. AndI'm not sort of like everything
needs bacon, or like slatherthis in some sort of premium
ingredient, it's like, you'regonna have to maybe put a little
bit of work in, but not too muchwork in. And these are just
(23:11):
simple ingredients that you canelevate with vinegar, or you
know, herbs or whatever. Andit's, it's about to like the
pleasures of the table, but alsothe pleasures of cooking. And, I
mean, I'm babbling now, but Ireally feel like I have a unique
perspective. I mean, I don'tthink there's many chefs with my
kind of background, which, youknow, someone recently called me
(23:37):
like the best kept secret inCanada or whatever. And it's
kind of like a backhandedcompliment. But I've been in
this industry for 20 years, I'vecooked at the James Beard house.
You know, I've, I've been in amyriad of festivals, I was the
culinary director of theNantucket Wine Festival when I
was like 27. You know, I wasexecutive chef of nine
restaurants by the time I was35. And I have this huge, long
(23:59):
career. But what I'm reallyfocused on now is family
cooking. And I think thatmerging those two things, it's a
really special part of the Venndiagram that I'm in, and I think
also as like a mother of twins.
And, uh, you know, I mean, I'mmarried now, but a single mom
(24:20):
for a long time. Like, there'sjust like a level of can do,
which I bring to the wholething, which I think makes it
special. And also the aestheticsI mean, I'm driven by the need
to create beauty in my own life,you know, as a little bit of
almost like a small act ofresistance. Like sometimes the
(24:42):
world feels overwhelming, but Ireally put a lot into the way
the book looks. Which again,it's just it's from my
background and from the way thatyou know, I've lived my life,
but just bringing that out andmaking like it's a really I
think very unique book with alot in They're so much that I
can't form a coherent sentenceor out.
Chris Spear (25:03):
I do love I'm drawn for some reason to this creamy
radish dip that's in there. Ifeel like that's gonna be the
first thing I'm gonna make. Andagain, that's something like I
feel like people don't eatradishes like we always have
them in our house. And like oneof our big things is we always
have like, crudity on the table,but then whenever I put them
into a dish, people are like,what is this a radish? I'm like,
(25:23):
yeah, you've never had thembefore. But, but for me, you do
make this book that has a lot ofreally cool recipes that I think
everyone's gonna enjoy. And Ithink it's also the kind of book
that you could cook with kids.
You know, it's not like Cookingfor Kids per se or with you
know, there's a lot of likecooking with kids books, I hate
those books, because they'realways so like, dumbed down and
mundane. And I feel like a lotof these recipes, you know, I
(25:46):
actually have twins myself.
They're 10 I have boy girltwins, and they love being with
me in the kitchen and findingrecipes that I feel like are
also accessible that they couldhelp with. I think this is one
of those books. So yeah, youknow how that goes as we try and
cook our way through this book.
Christine Flynn (26:01):
Yeah, no, honestly, I mean, my kids
started you know, mixing chiapudding when they were like a
year and a half old, you know,and, and even now, like we eat a
lot of carbs, but they helpedme. They helped me roll pizza
dough, we make Lamin which islike a Middle Eastern. It's like
a It's a lamb flatbread, youknow, spiked with like all spice
(26:23):
and cinnamon and peppers. Andit's delicious. And they just
think it's pizza. But we makeLamington together, and they
roll the dough and I made padsSee you at home the other night,
and they helped me pull thenoodles. And you know, it's a
real like, they don't know whatthey know. But cooking with kids
(26:45):
doesn't have to be like PandaBear cupcakes. It can be a panda
bear cupcakes are great, or likehappy face pizza. But it can
also be, you know, moremeaningful because cooking with
kids. And I could talk aboutthis forever. But like they're
learning so much. They'relearning fractions. They're
(27:05):
learning teamwork. They'relearning patience.
Chris Spear (27:08):
That's that's the way that I taught my kids
fractions, because that's wheremy kids are in school right now
is they're doing fractions. Andwhen I think about fractions,
that's literally what I use itfor all the time. And when we're
trying to visualize like they'rehaving to add fractions. And the
easiest thing is for me to takelike a half cup measuring cup,
and a quarter cup measuring cupout, and then the third cup and
be like, see, that's how thenumbers come together. One half
(27:28):
plus one quarter equals threequarters. And for me, it just
made sense. So I love doingthat. It's like, let's just get
over here with all the cookingstuff. And that'll help put it
all together. Right.
Christine Flynn (27:38):
And I think particularly baking is great for
that. And I'm actually I reallylove the baking section in this
book. Because, again, so manypeople are daunted by baking,
and particularly even inprofessional kitchens. Like, I
just know so many folks who arelike, I'm Chef, I'm not a Baker,
(27:58):
and I'm like, Just wait, I
Chris Spear (27:59):
just wing it. I don't measure things, right?
Isn't that what we've heard forso many years? Like,
Christine Flynn (28:03):
come on, man, like, my grandma could bake a
cake. And she wasn't a chef,either, you know, and it's just
like, there's a real, you know,oh, and it's like, yeah, baking
is a science, but it's not exactscience. And like we're not
laminating any dose here. Youknow, you could knock together a
cake in five minutes. You know,you just got to chuck a few
things in the blender and pourit in a pan like you're fine,
(28:25):
you know, and I do yeah, Ireally love like quick, kind of
thoughtful but delicious, makingrecipes because I think it also
it's just like one more kind ofthing to have in your back
pocket. And one more way to justenjoy being in the kitchen and
to enjoy the results.
Chris Spear (28:44):
Yeah, I work as a personal chef, that's my full
time job. And you know, I don'treally want to buy premade
products and I had to kind ofteach myself more and more
desserts and I'm seeing thatwith a lot of my peers who are
doing the same thing because somany of us were trained
professionally in the savorykitchen you know you maybe did
like expo or something or workedin pantry and had to like
garnish desserts but we weren'tmaking them into now offer 15
(29:07):
different desserts to mycustomers. You really had to
figure out some things and youplay to your strengths like
decorating is never going to bemy thing like decorating a
beautiful wedding cake. I'm notgoing to get there but I can
make some delicious dessertsthat I think still look nice. I
have my eyes on the molasseschocolate cookies and your
because Molasses Cookies are myall time favorite cookie. But
(29:27):
chocolate chip are kind of likea close second. So I feel like
you've kind of found a way tobridge that together. And are
they good? Are they
Christine Flynn (29:35):
Oh good and they don't like they don't not
like in a nice way tastes like achunk some boy which I like I
like when my stuff kind oftastes like something janky and
nostalgic like from childhood soyeah, I actually made those the
other day and and I mean mygirls love them but like I love
them. And after my girls went tobed I definitely also made an
(29:56):
ice cream sandwich.
Chris Spear (29:58):
That's a pro move right there. Yeah, I
Christine Flynn (30:00):
was like, oh, but it's they have such a nice
texture too, because I like thema little underbaked. And then
they firm up and then it's,yeah, now I want that again. But
yeah, they're great for an icecream sandwich.
Chris Spear (30:10):
Where do you find inspiration and not necessarily
just in the culinary world, Ithink we draw from all over. And
maybe if you know, you'retalking about the culinary
world, that's fine. But alsolike what just inspires you.
Christine Flynn (30:21):
I mean, a lot of like, a lot of a lot of what
inspires me is just the idea of,again, sort of creating like a
beautiful life. And for me, foodis part of that making in
general is part of that, like, Ireally try and create more than
I consume. And lately, I've beenworking a little more than I'd
(30:44):
like to be. So I'm not doing asmuch creating at home, I'm still
cooking a lot, but, but I so alot, I really got into that a
few years ago, when I startedkind of making a lot of my own
clothes. Actually, I made theshirt and sort of moving a
little bit into that world,which Instagram is kind of a
weird place. And I've had aninteresting relationship with it
(31:07):
over the years, because it'sreally helped me kind of grow my
platform. But I also kind of,I'm really pretty selective in
how I use it. Like, I don'treally go on there and look at
what other people are doing.
Unless it's women in the sewingcommunity, because that's like,
my favorite thing. It's just anice group of middle aged women
complimenting each other. And Ilove that, right? So yeah, I'm
(31:30):
very inspired by like design.
I'm very inspired by like a kindof specific, sort of, like a
really cozy aesthetic, if thatmakes sense. And I think in
looking at the book it does, butI'm also I don't know, I'm also
(31:51):
inspired by Yeah, just kind ofplaces I've been and things I've
seen and big, beautiful piecesof art, and wonderful pieces of
music. When I was in university,through happenstance, I ended up
in Czech Republic, and I studiedthe aesthetics of Baroque opera
there, which you wouldn't thinkwould be useful. But I just I
(32:17):
learned a lot about like designthere, but also about Eastern
European culture, General, andhistory and communism. And yeah,
there's a real kind of like thruline in my work that celebrates
I think, Eastern Europeanculture. And that sort of, I
don't know, I love green velvetand brass.
Chris Spear (32:38):
No, that's cool. I want I think everyone should
have hobbies, outside theirprofession, because, you know,
it's fine to go deep. But Ithink it's also nice to have
something and now we're in thislike, side hustle economy. And
like, every time you get ahobby, everyone's like, well,
you should, you know, put thaton Etsy, or whatever, or create
a blog for it's like, sometimesI just want to do my thing.
(32:58):
Like, I love photography. And Istarted my own Instagram, just
for like photography to like,just post my stuff and not have
to, like, make it optimized forthe likes and the engagement,
like Oh, three people like myphoto cool, I don't really care.
And then I just follow likeartists and interesting people
in the, you know, musicians Iwant to listen to, because you
can't do that from your businessaccount, because then it throws
(33:20):
off the algorithm and all thatnonsense, right?
Christine Flynn (33:24):
Yeah, I mean, Instagram is not the place I go.
It's not really the place I gofor much inspiration. It's
certainly not the place I go formy news. And I think a lot of
people are on the other side ofthat on the other side of that
line, but I don't know, I don'twant to open something that's
supposed to be for fun and feelstressed out. I just, I can't
live like that I can't createfrom a place of of anxiety and
(33:46):
stress. And I can't come up withsolutions from that place. Some
people maybe can, but I thinkwe're, we're often surrounded by
a lot of negativity. And so Itry and keep everything like
light and bright. And, you know,I just look at a lot of pictures
of mouse cartoons on theinternet. And that makes me
happy.
Chris Spear (34:05):
Whatever works for you, but you did have an alter
ego a couple of years ago,right, like 2015 2016 or so like
you were someone else on theinternet.
Christine Flynn (34:15):
Yeah, I had a satirical Instagram. And, you
know, I mean, there was likeanything I've done, there was a
lot there to unpack. And Idon't, you know, I it's not
something that I really talkabout much because it's a little
bit like taking the hat offMickey Mouse, you know what I
mean? And this character kindof, he very much stood on his
(34:36):
own, and I think was emblematic,you know, he's a bit of an
everyman as a cook. And, youknow, again, high level of
detail, very specific backstory,like anyone who followed along,
kind of got to know him and hisway and I've really met him
before in a weird way, but thatwas fun, you know, and it
(34:58):
definitely I think it changedthe course of my career too,
because a lot of a lot of be Ithink being a woman in the
industry, a lot of people don'treally think that you're capable
of much. At that time. I wasjust, I don't say just but yeah,
you know, as a lady makingsalads in Toronto, and nobody
(35:20):
ever suspects the lady makingsalads in Toronto having this
Instagram account with like ahuge following a tremendous
following at that time. So itwas fun, but it was also just
kind of for me, it was like,Yeah, I can do this. I can do
other stuff, too. You know?
Chris Spear (35:36):
Yeah. It's fun to poke fun at the industry,
though. Like, I think whateverindustry you're in, and I think
that's probably why there was somuch success. You know, I think
you're seeing it now. If you've,you know, the sauce summons on
Instagram kind of same thing,like subversive, subversive,
like jabs at the restaurantindustry and like a tongue in
cheek way, but like, also kindof serious.
Christine Flynn (35:54):
Yeah, I mean with with jock. He was never, he
was never mean, right. And thatwas something that was really
interesting. Like, I createdthis nice little corner of the
internet where like, yeah, hewould make fun of himself. And
yeah, there was obviously somestuff there about the reliance
on an immigrant workforce orworkforce. Sorry. There was
(36:17):
stuff about sexism, you know,there's all kinds of things down
a layer, but it was never meanspirited. And it was never
targeted at anyone. And it wasnever sort of, it never went
after anyone and even the peoplewho came with negative comments,
which was very few. His responsewas always like, super cheerful
and super, like, Thanks,brother, you know, and it was a
(36:40):
really, you know, it was areally interesting social
experiment for me. And it was away also for me to use these
skills, plating and, you know,develop some skills in
photography, I guess, you know,that have really, yeah, I've
really helped.
Chris Spear (36:56):
And I think at its core, like it was kind of like
the food that a lot of us wantedto eat, like, how many times you
talk about, like chefs who,like, really just want to eat a
taco or a burger anyway, like, Iwork like, Cheez Its until,
like, my dishes that I sell tomy customers, you know, like,
who doesn't love that stuff? So,
Christine Flynn (37:11):
yeah, and you think I mean, I think we see
more of that now. For sure. ButI think that that account,
really kind of it changed theshape of food and you know, a
little bit of a way because itwas like, Yeah, who doesn't love
a choco taco? You know, like,let's be honest, but I think
there was also an element ofplating kind of got out of
control there for a little bit.
And, you know, I would see thesechefs with these huge followings
(37:35):
online, and I would eat at therestaurants, I'd be like, this
is not very good, you know,still out there. Yes,
absolutely. emphatically, yes.
And we do eat with our eyesfirst, but at the end of the
day, like the flavors got to bethere. And again, that's where
with my food, you know, insofaras, like, I can put together a
(37:55):
delicate plate. You know,there's also nothing wrong with
a big nine by 13 pan of beige,you know what I mean? Like,
there's a lot of good food outthere that doesn't look that
beautiful. And we really do haveto strike a balance in the way
that we are eating and the waythat we're presenting and, you
know, I think yeah, tinyportions, tweezers, everything
(38:16):
and doesn't necessarilyguarantee like a great eating
experience.
Chris Spear (38:19):
No, I love brown food. You know, there's nothing.
This again, at this dinner I didthis weekend. It was grits with
like a braised short rib andcollard greens. We've got like
yellow grits, and like brownmeat with like drab green, but
like there was so many flavorsand what I worked, and I
resisted the urge to just, like,throw nasturtiums on there just
because or whatever. Yeah, it'slike, you don't need to always
(38:40):
do that.
Christine Flynn (38:41):
Yeah, and you don't always need to fuss with
things so much. I think JuliaChild very famously said that
she didn't like food thatappears to have been fingered,
and, you know, absolutely likeand I do love like every once in
a while, like a delicate plateof crudo or something that
clearly is had a lot of thoughtput into the plating. But
there's a lot of dishes outthere where it's like, you know,
(39:02):
just just give me a piece ofmeat, you know, and some
potatoes and I'll be happy.
Chris Spear (39:07):
I actually met you at the star chefs Congress. Like
I guess that was probably like2016 like probably like right
after you're coming out thereand I was there with will
Gilson. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah.
And I think like you're servingfood for the lunch, one of the
lunches that was days orsomething like I have picture
somewhere in my archive. So ifyou like making food, I think
Christine Flynn (39:26):
I were you were to realize that at that time,
Chris Spear (39:29):
you were pregnant with twins at that time. Yeah.
That was before I
Christine Flynn (39:33):
found out I found out. I was maybe six or
seven weeks pregnant, where Iwas like, why am I getting so
chubby? And it's because I wascarrying two babies at the same
time. But yeah, starships wasone of my last kind of events
that I did for a while therebecause I was just And yeah, I
wanted to do something differentand everyone kept trying to
shuttle me into being this, youknow, come here and play junk
(39:56):
food and I was like, it's reallynot exciting. Like it was a
joke, you know, and And nowwe're taking it too far. But I
do love New York, it was a nicetrip to New York, I remember
that.
Chris Spear (40:05):
It's always a good trip. I've missed it, because
they haven't had it since theCOVID. Year. So I guess 2019 was
the last year. What doessustainability mean to you? I
know you talked about, like,using things, you know, that you
had on hand. To me, that's a lotof sustainability is like
wasting nothing. You've touchedon that. And that's, you know,
so many of the guests I'mtalking to recently, that's one
of the big things they've kindof been focusing on, you know,
(40:27):
when they started their businessor in the past few years. So
what are like some of the thingsyou're interested in, in the
realm of sustainability?
Christine Flynn (40:35):
I mean, there's definitely a few different
things and there's also like,my, my at home and my at work.
But yeah, at home, I'm I'mpretty good, right? Like, I
really don't waste too much. Tothe point where, like, it's a
well known fact, amongst mygroup of friends that like my
deep freezer just has like somuch random stuff in it, but I'm
(40:55):
like, I'm not throwing out thosebones. Like I'm gonna make a
stew. But yeah, I mean, I prettymuch I use almost everything
even if it's just, you know, theherbs are going a bit, man, you
know, I put them in a ziptop bagin the freezer, they go into my
next pot of broth. My next book,which I'm working on now, like I
have a whole section on a littlestuff I don't throw out and how
(41:16):
to use it like whether it's, youknow, cheese rinds, bread butts,
dill pickle juice is a big onethat like, I feel like people
just toss and it's like, I cangive you 10 different things you
can do with that.
Chris Spear (41:29):
I have a jar in my fridge that it's a combo with
like half and half dill picklejuice and like pickled jalapeno
juice. And it's just like thismaster mother jar of like when
something ends I add some moreand yeah,
Christine Flynn (41:39):
like make a salad dressing like poach a
piece of fish. Do you have yoursmash burgers? Like at the end?
Not to start? Yeah, so manydifferent things. Put it on
oysters. But yeah, like I thinkI have a long list of things
that normally people throw outand I don't really throw out. I
make a lot of bras. I love soup.
I don't know. Yeah, justeverything goes into into
(42:02):
something else. I feel likewhich is very funny and ironic
because when I was a kid, we'dalways be like mom corn and the
lasagna again, like she and shealways did that. So for me, like
sustainability at home is reallytrying to use everything. And
but in a way where you're noteating the same thing over and
over again. And I think I'mreally good at that I'm really
(42:22):
good at taking, you know, onenight's roast chicken and
turning it into like sixdifferent meals, that all taste
very different. Because I thinklike leftover fatigue is a real
thing. And I think that inshowing people how I do that
pretty regularly like that is mylittle sustainability gift to
the world. I try and feel likeand again, the next book that
(42:45):
I'm working on I you know, Iactually have like Master
recipes, and then how to usethem, as well as sort of formula
recipes where it's the same sortof base of X amount of vinegar,
X amount of broth X amount ofyou know, delta. And here's how
you would do that with tofu.
Here's how you do chicken,here's a fish kind of thing. So
(43:06):
I really try to create recipesthat teach people that again, in
a way that feels fun, right?
Because some people want you toget on board with sustainability
again, from a place of fear froma place of anxiety from a place
of finger wagging. And for me,I'm like, yo, I'm having the
best party, we've got the bestsnacks, would you like to come?
(43:26):
Bring your puffy sleeves, youknow. And so I think that is
really important for me. And onthe puffy sleeves. Note, I
think, again, something for methat's important in terms of
sustainability is. And this is alittle detail in the book that
not everyone will notice. Butpretty much every single item of
clothing in that book I eithermade myself or is thrifted. And
(43:47):
we can all be here for the ideaof farm to table which because
it's not actually verified byanyone. What does that even
mean? But we can all be here forlike local sourcing and really
trying to do our best with foodwaste. And I think that that is
super important. But the numbertwo worst environmental offender
(44:09):
behind big oil is not big ag,it's fast fashion. And so that
is another part of like myparty, where like I'm usually
wearing goofy clothing. Andagain, but almost like I haven't
bought new clothes and maybelike five years other than
underpants. You don't reallyhave to talk about but you know
what I mean? And so I steppedout of the cycle, which I think
(44:31):
most of us are in it. We don'teven realize it. But yeah, I
don't support brands anymore,which are part of the fast
fashion cycle. And that's a realkey piece of sustainability.
That for me is just like thesoft sell where it's like yeah,
like wear the shoulder pads likeby the 80s clothes and just come
to my party like come to thisplace of joy. And not sort of
(44:53):
not the finger wag there's aparty going on downstairs. Yeah,
I mean, in general, restaurantsare hard to make them
sustainable. I, there's veryfew. And when you're a small
business, it's really hard. Butone of the things that we've
really tried to do at myrestaurants in Toronto is we've
(45:15):
really tried to support andamplify regenerative
agriculture. So that's anotherbig one, just with climate
change is letting people know,again, more about the solutions
and less about the problems. Soregenerative agriculture,
farmers use low or no tillfarming methods, agricultural
(45:36):
methods, and they're able totake carbon out of the
atmosphere, and put it back inthe ground where it belongs. And
if we converted, like, I thinkit's like 1000, or something of
like, just regular oldagriculture to regenerative
agriculture, we would not juststop climate change, we would
actually be able to reverse it,which would be wonderful.
(46:00):
Because sometimes, especiallythe summer when it's like real
hot, and I'm like, I've neverbeen this hot, like, you just
want a turtle, right. And as aparent, it's something that I
really kind of struggled withwhen I had, you know, my girls,
and you're full of hormones, andyou're kind of crazy anyway. And
I was like, What have I done,you know, what are we doing, but
you can't turtle but you can geton board with people who are
(46:23):
doing the right thing. And evenjust letting people know that
regenerative agriculture exists,I don't care if they come to my
restaurant, I care that theyknow that regenerative
agriculture is a solution andthat they can go and buy st
Bridget's butter, they can goand buy greens from the new
farm. Like there's all theselittle, you know, kind of farms
and producers who are poppingup. And by driving the message
(46:43):
home of this as a solution. Ithink that that's, you know, one
of my things that I really tryand do to help and I'm just one
person, for sure. But I think,you know, I think that those
kind of small solutions arehelpful to people. And so that's
what I try to do.
Chris Spear (47:03):
And it's not all or nothing, you know, I think
sometimes it's really easy toget overwhelmed like that you
have to be composting and savingall your scraps and recycling
everything. And it's easy tojust be like I can't do any of
this. But like, start slow. It'slike changing your diet and
lifestyle. Like you don't haveto start running marathons just
like maybe get up and walk alittle bit the same thing and
trying to get people to justfind one or two things that
(47:26):
really works for them. And youknow, then maybe it snowballs a
little bit right. And I think itdrives creativity for someone
who's a chef or cook or culinaryreally inspired like the idea of
vinegar, right? Like, I'm goingon vacation, I got instructions
in my backyard. I just go andgrab them and throw them in a
jar with vinegar and I come backfrom vacation I have this like
really cool bright red nester,some vinegar, you know, it's
(47:47):
like because I don't want towaste something that I put the
energy into growing. So for meit like kind of drives
creativity. What do I havethat's getting ready to go? How
do I use it and make some newcondiments or something?
Christine Flynn (47:59):
Yeah, I find so much creativity in my kitchen
comes from Yeah, trying not towaste things, you know, going to
like no frills and seeing what'son sale. You know, I never
really have a plan for what I'mgoing to cook each day. It's
just kind of five o'clock. And Ilook around and I think like
this is what I have. And yeah,being creative with what you've
(48:21):
got or what you can get. That'sa that's a huge kind of step
towards sustainability. Andpeople might not even realize
that but it is
Chris Spear (48:31):
most definitely.
Well, is there anything you wantto share with our listeners
before we get out of here today?
Christine Flynn (48:36):
Yeah, I mean, check out the book. It's called
a generous meal, modern RecipesFor Dinner. It's full of
wonderful and sometimes weirdrecipes, and a lot of personal
kind of touches and essays andlittle easter eggs that I think
people will enjoy. But it's youknow, it's meant to improve
people's lives in a way thatfeels both aspirational and
(48:58):
achievable. You know, andthat's, I think the book for
right now. And we're all lookingfor more recipes with cabbage
and cans of beans. They're allin there, but they taste
delicious, and they're easy tomake.
Chris Spear (49:11):
I love the book, I'm gonna keep working my way
through it. I'll keep you postedon how that's going. And as
always, I share photos of myexperiments on the internet. So
for all the listeners, if you'refollowing me, you might see some
of these recipes pop up in yourfeed. And I'd like everything in
the show notes so people will beable to pick up that book.
Amazing. Well, thanks for comingon the show. I really enjoyed
having you today. Yeah, thankyou so much. This was so much
(49:32):
fun. And to all of ourlisteners. As always, this is
Chris and this was the ChefsWithout Restaurants podcast.
Thanks for listening and have agreat week. Go to chefs without
restaurants.org To find ourFacebook group, mailing list and
check database. The community isfree to join. You'll get gig
opportunities, advice onbuilding and growing your
business and you'll never missan episode of our podcast. Have
(49:54):
a great week.
This week on Chefs Without Restaurants I have
Christine Flynn. She's theproprietor of the good Earth
winery, partner at the goodEarth Farm in Ontario, Canada
and executive chef and partnerat IQ food co, a restaurant
group with multiple locations inToronto. Christine recently
released her second cookbook, agenerous meal and came by the
show to talk about it and awhole lot more. This is Chris
(00:23):
spear. And you're listening toChefs Without Restaurants, the
show where I speak with culinaryentrepreneurs and people working
in the food and beverageindustry outside of a
traditional restaurant setting.
Hello, everyone, I hope you'reall doing tremendous, or is that
tremendously? I'm not reallysure. Anyway, I'm still battling
a bout of bronchitis. So onceagain, I'm going to keep this
(00:44):
intro short and sweet because mythoughts a little gravelly. Also
notice the people across thestreet finally have their yard
people here and there's some Idon't know, leaf blowers.
chainsaws are nonsense, so youdon't need to hear all that. So
let's get to it. Christine's newbook came out a few weeks ago,
and I think you're gonna loveit. I feel like it finds the
sweet spot between being acookbook that chefs will like
full of flavor packed recipes,but also having recipes that are
(01:06):
relatively easy to execute quickand won't break the bank. If
you're looking for someinnovative ways to use a head of
cabbage and some beans, this isthe book for you. Christina is
also a food writer, stylist andphotographer. And if her name is
familiar, but you're not surewhere you might know her from
she was also the person behindthe Instagram account Jacques La
Merde back in 2015 2016. Forthose of you who aren't up on
(01:29):
their French, La Merde literallymeans the shit. Jacques was
known for his overly worked andtweezers plates of beautiful
food. But the dishes werecomposed of junk food, think
modernise take on a Big Mac. Andwhile she had fun with it at the
time, Christine has moved pasther jock days. Like myself,
she's a parent of twins, andsays that these days, she's more
(01:50):
focused on family cooking, eventalk a little bit about cooking
with kids on the show. I askedChristine about her views on
sustainability and what thatmeans to her. And we just have a
really great conversation aboutthe cookbook, some of the
recipes, her techniques and howshe likes to produce food these
days. So I'm gonna jump out ofhere and let you listen to the
show. You can find links to hersocial media pages, her new
(02:11):
cookbook and everything in theshow notes as usual. And if
you're enjoying the show, pleaseshare it. Let people know about
the Chefs Without Restaurantspodcast, I'd really appreciate
it. Thanks for taking the timeto listen to me and the show.
And I hope you have a great day.
Hi, Christine. Welcome to theshow. Thanks so much for coming
on.
Christine Flynn (02:30):
Thanks for having me.
Chris Spear (02:31):
It's great to have you here today. I can't wait to
talk to you about your newcookbook and all the really cool
things you're doing in the foodand beverage world.
Christine Flynn (02:38):
Thank you.
Chris Spear (02:39):
So before we kind of dive into what you do now and
the book and everything, Ialways like to start the show
with a little bit of likeculinary backstory. Are you have
you been a lifelong food person?
Like did you grow up loving foodand cooking and kind of how did
you get into this whole weirdwild world of food and
beverages?
Christine Flynn (02:57):
I mean, I've always loved food. My family
moved a lot when I was little wemoved I think seven times before
I was nine. That's a lot. It isa lot. Yeah, Nova Scotia to
England to Alberta, which is theCanadian equivalent of the
Midwest, I would say, and backeast and then sort of central.
(03:20):
So we moved many times. And oneof the ways that I think my
parents sort of compensated forall the disruption was by having
a very consistent dinnerschedule. So we ate dinner
together as a family pretty muchevery night. And we a home
(03:41):
cooked meals. So I was alwayskind of poking around the stove
and seeing what was going on.
And I think every kid wants to,you know, mimic their parents.
And so I got into cooking quiteearly. I think the first time I
picked up a knife I was aboutfive. And so yeah, I've just
always I've always eaten andI've always cooked
Chris Spear (04:03):
and not picky eater when you were a kid. We weren't
really
Christine Flynn (04:07):
allowed to be picky. My parents had a three
bite rule. So you had to trythree bites of everything, which
I think helps build a palettefrom a very young age. And I
think that the other thing wasthat with all the moves, I mean,
my dad went back to school whenI was quite young. You know, you
(04:29):
you get what you get, you don'tget upset. So it wasn't like we
didn't like something there wasan alternative was like, Hey,
we're having beef tongue fordinner. If you don't want it.
You just go to
Chris Spear (04:39):
bed. I love it. I mean that's how I was raised to
in the 80s you know and now it'slike my son could probably do to
put on some weight and we talkedto his doctor and they're just
like, well if he doesn't want toeat don't make them eat and have
some always available stuff. I'mlike alright, like are you
kidding my dad never would havelet me just like get up and like
not eat the dinner my mom madeand make like a peanut butter
sandwich. I remember sitting infront of like this pile of
(04:59):
butternut squash for like twohours at the dinner table, they
say you're not supposed to dothat anymore. I don't know, I
haven't done it with my kids.
But I think it made me less of aparticular eater as a kid. And
similar to you, like I lovedbeing around my my mom,
particularly who cooked all thetime. And that just instilled
the love of cooking in me.
Christine Flynn (05:17):
Yeah, and I think as you get older, you
realize how important it is,particularly if you travel or,
you know, working in theindustry. Even if you're in the
back, you end up at some, youend up at some fancy dinners
every once in a while, you know,and I've had the good fortune to
be in a few over the years. Andyou want to know how to behave.
(05:38):
You don't want to be the personwho's sitting there not knowing
which fork to use or is likefreaked out by the lamb brains
on your play, you know, you wantto just be able to, to eat and
enjoy and go after those tastesand experiences. And I want my
kids to have that. I really do.
I think it's one of the mostimportant things that's driven,
driven me both in my career andin all the places that I've been
(05:59):
is just, I'm hungry. And I'mcurious. And I don't have to
know exactly, you know, what'sgoing to happen. And that's the
great thing about beingcomfortable with food and around
food and being able to movebetween worlds as I think most
chefs are,
Chris Spear (06:15):
and it brings people together, you know, being
around a dinner table, whetherit be family or friends. And,
you know, that's what I lovewith this, you know, food and
beverage industry. It's what'skept me here for so many years.
I know you've been around,you've lived in different places
worked in different places. Butyou're back in Canada now. So
what are you doing on a day today for work? Oh, boy. Well of
(06:35):
everything.
Christine Flynn (06:36):
Yeah, currently, I I'm actually
running a winery in Niagara. Andamongst other things, I you
know, I still have multiplejobs. But I'm, I'm partnered in
a restaurant group in Toronto.
And we do sort of a healthy,fast casual, it's very high
volume experience. So I consulton the menu there. It's very
(06:56):
vegetable forward, but it's alsoscratch made. So I develop those
recipes. And I've been doingthat for about 10 years. And
that's been really fun, becauseI learned how to cook in a very
different way. You know, I'm oneof the only chefs I know who has
really mastered making soup anda rationale oven. You know, we
bake all our soups, there.
Chris Spear (07:19):
That's interesting.
I've never, I've never seenbaked soup before. Is that just
like, because you had therationale oven and you figured
out how to do it
Christine Flynn (07:25):
is well, no, I mean, we use the I leverage the
rationale. But it's because wedon't have any range. Like all
we have at those at thoserestaurants. And there's nine of
them. Currently, we grew up fromtwo locations when we started.
There's no other way to cooksoup. It's just like you put it
in the oven, and you figure itout. So that's one very specific
(07:45):
way of cooking. But then sort ofwhen the when the pandemic
popped off, I was on furloughfor a while. And then I went
back to reduced hours. I kind ofwrote this book, a generous
meal, did some consulting did acouple other things. And one of
the things I was doing was justkind of part time, social media
(08:06):
of all things for a winery. Andthen the winery was sold. And
then the guy who bought it waslooking for someone with a
really specific skill set with abackground in events in
culinary, you know, in front ofhouse in marketing, and I ticked
every box. And so now I run it.
But digging into the things Ilike so I teach cooking classes
(08:30):
here, like do you enjoy themarketing piece and the branding
piece, I have a lot ofexperience in that. But I really
I like cooking, like in theclasses. And it's a nice balance
between my background, workingnights and restaurants, which I
don't really want to do anymorewith two five year olds. And
(08:50):
also just like I'm able tointeract with the guests in a
more meaningful way. So they'redemonstration style cooking
classes, and they're great. Andevery once in a while I cook
dinner. So we have st Patty'sday on Friday, and I'll do you
know, kind of six courses and goall in and make a really Swan
yay. And but I'll do it forlike, you know, 18 people.
Chris Spear (09:11):
So is it like fancy are pretty traditional for the
St. Patty's Day?
Christine Flynn (09:15):
Oh, well, I'm ethnically Irish. So I don't
know. I mean, I'm doing elevatedhome cooking, which is what I
like to do. You know, I want tomake food that tastes like
something your grandma wouldmake if your grandma was a
really good cook, but I want tomake it look a little bit. You
know, like a little bit morefine dining, but approachable.
(09:36):
Like I think my goal as a chefis to really hit that sweet spot
between aspirational andattainable and that's what I try
to do in my books. I believeeveryone deserves to eat
beautiful food. I don't think ithas to cost that much. I think
you can get pretty far with acabbage. So that's really what I
that's how I like to cook. I'mnot fussy, you know?
Chris Spear (09:57):
Yeah. Did you say in your book that you always
have cabbage in the fridge orsomething, I think that was like
the headnote of one of yourrecipes. Yeah, I
Christine Flynn (10:03):
have a whole essay, I actually compare myself
to a cabbage in a complementaryway.
Chris Spear (10:08):
Now I have some Irish in me and I grew up
outside of Boston so very muchwith the, you know, New England
boiled dinner, corned beef andcabbage kind of thing. And as
I've moved around the countryhave had to kind of reinterpret
that sometimes depending onwhere I am to make it a little
upscale. So totally with you onthat.
Christine Flynn (10:25):
No, one of the dishes I'm doing is actually is
corned beef and cabbage. So I'mgoing to make almost like a
corned beef like farce and thenput it in a savoy cabbage and
then I wrap it and call fat. Andthen you know, roasted and it's
really delicious. And all thecomponents of corned beef are
there, but it's this beautifullittle package. And, you know,
(10:46):
it looks like something that weserved at the Michelin starred
restaurant I worked at inBurgundy.
Chris Spear (10:50):
Wow, I want to do that I've got the corned beef,
I've got the cabbage on handright now, I wasn't thinking
about going super fancy at myhouse for dinner. But I might
have to rethink that. Well, Ilove the area that you are in my
wife and I and kids went up tolike Niagara on the Lake this
past summer. And I just thoughtit was so beautiful up there, I
was amazed at the produce, youknow, just because I always
(11:11):
think of it as kind of being youknow, it's Northern, and I was
kind of picturing it to becooler, but just the, like
peaches, people like they, Ididn't realize, you know,
they're like, We have the bestpeaches in the world. And like,
come on, that's Georgia, but thepeaches were the peaches were
delicious. And they are
Christine Flynn (11:25):
good peaches. I don't know, I've had some pretty
good Georgia peaches too. Butyeah, we have abundant produce
here. And, and again, for mehaving lived kind of all over
the world, like I'm very happyin Niagara, because we have such
great access to produce. And weare, I think at an interesting
time in the food culture here,where we are developing our own
(11:47):
sense of Niagara regionalism interms of cuisine, and it's, it's
kind of neat to be on the groundlevel of that, not the ground
level, I shouldn't say that. Butin the mix, you know, as as
we're kind of expressing it.
Because Canadian cooking,really, for a long time. It's
only identity was that it wasn'tAmerica, right? Or the routine
(12:10):
here. And now, you know, in thelast kind of 1015 years, you've
seen chefs more stepping in toregional cooking in a more
meaningful way than just youknow, Montreal and Quebec, very
much had a grip on it a littlebit earlier. But you're seeing
kind of, you know, differentareas of the country really
express themselves. And for me,it's always going back to the
(12:31):
old recipes, right? And even ifit's, you know, your grandma's
cookbooks, or whatever, from,you know, the woman's
Association in town, likereading those old recipes, and
figuring out how to serve thatin a way that feels both, like,
timeless and timely. That's whatI that's the kind of food that I
like to eat. Oh, yeah,
Chris Spear (12:53):
I love those. I just had a podcast guest a
couple of weeks ago. And hiswhole thing is he's has like a
Instagram and YouTube channel.
And He resurrects like those oldrecipes and has like a thing
called like, bring it back orstay in the past. And he like,
finds these random, like,women's society cookbooks. And
we'll pull out some recipe thatsounds like it's gonna be a
train wreck. And then he makesit and kind of gives a breakdown
as to, like whether we shouldmaybe not make it but more often
(13:14):
than not, he's like, this is youknow, really delicious. And then
you can possibly bump it up anotch and put a modernist twist.
And
Christine Flynn (13:23):
I think they were taking the time and there
was a level of there was a levelof attention to detail to which
I don't think that the averageperson who cooks at home, a lot
of people, for them, it's it'sreally function is really just
getting a meal on the table. Andwhat I really try and encourage
(13:44):
people to do is, you know, notlook at cooking so much as like
this thing that you have to do,but like this thing that you
want to do, because it'sactually pretty great, right?
Like cooking, you have to makethe whole meal. And I I'm very
clear about that. I don't dothat every night. You know, I do
cook dinner every night, somepart of it. But there's a lot of
(14:04):
things I just don't like, I'mnot going to make that you know,
but I am going to spend 20minutes with this cabbage and a
500 degree oven and makesomething beautiful. But I love
cooking. Because it's like alittle problem you can solve
every day, right? And there's somany problems you can't solve,
but like problem of what's fordinner, like just to kind of
really like stick in and enjoythat as an activity. And to kind
(14:26):
of value your ingredients, whichis something that you know, like
my grandmother's didn't wasteanything. And even my mom did a
pretty good job and with foodbut also I grew up with a mom
who darned our tube socks, youknow, like, it was just a
completely different world. Andsomewhere we kind of went off
track and bringing those kind ofold values back those old
(14:47):
recipes. I'm probably not goingto darn tube socks, but I'll
have you know, I'll amend a pairof jeans every once in a while.
Chris Spear (14:55):
Well I think having a good stocked pantry and that's
in your cookbook, you know,people joke that like they
opened my fridge and it's amillion condiments but they
could go with literally anythingyou could have a her recipes and
that could go with a chicken ora fillet of fish or rub it on
beat. Like if you just have awell stocked pantry of
condiments and you know a bunchof grains and dry goods and
beans and whatever, you can puttogether a pretty good flavor
(15:18):
packed meal in just a handful ofminutes. Absolutely, yeah, I
Christine Flynn (15:21):
make a I make a spicy honey. And it's available
like all over North America. Andpeople always like what do I do
with it. And I was like, you cando literally anything with it.
Like it's a starter for a saladdressing. You can dress a
chicken in it, you can roast abunch of carrots and like plunk
them in a puddle of yogurt anddrizzle it all over top. And
it's like a fancy adjacent side,you know, and it's just a couple
(15:43):
smart condiments. big ol bottleof white vinegar, probably one
of my favorite ones. And andyeah, you can absolutely make
something out of nothing. Thattastes good. And I think
nourishes you in more ways thanone.
Chris Spear (15:58):
Well, I love the cookbook. And one of the things
you know, I think we're in agreat time for cookbooks.
Because, you know, as a chef, Ilike those Sheffy kind of
restaurant cookbooks, but Idon't think I've ever made
anything from them. Like, hasanyone made anything from like
the Noma cookbook, like notputting anyone on blast, but it
just, you know, comes to mind,like I have all these coffee
table books and books that Ilook through for inspiration.
(16:19):
And then don't make anything andthen there was always kind of
like, the cookbooks that I feltwere kind of mundane and boring
I wasn't interested in and now Isee these chefs making really
great cookbooks, where all therecipes are approachable,
they're affordable, they'refast, but it still feels like a
very chef driven recipe. And Ithink that's where your book
falls in. If you don't mind,that kind of generalization of
(16:40):
your bones. I think it's, it'sgreat. It's like the kind of
book that I want to cook fromthese days. And the books that I
I've been using more recentlythan not.
Christine Flynn (16:49):
Yeah, I think, for me, I mean, this book is a
very much a love letter to mycareer, but also to, to my
family and the ways that mycooking has changed. And, you
know, I mean, 10 years ago, Iwasn't cooking like this,
because I wasn't cooking for mykids, you know, and I wasn't I
(17:11):
didn't care how much things costor how long they took, and I
cared about, you know, my chefcrowd or whatever, and I don't
really care about my show. Like,it's fine, you know, but like, I
really, like I again, I lovekind of like this little food
challenge at the end of the day.
And I like I like when myhusband turns to me, and he
(17:32):
says, you know, oh, I couldreally go for a Big Mac. And I
think, Okay, I'm gonna make youthat, but it's gonna be a salad,
you know. And so kind of teasingout these flavors that we love.
Using smart techniques from, youknow, my whole career. And
sometimes I don't even realizethat those little touches that I
do are anything exceptionalbecause as chefs as cooks, this
(17:54):
stuff is just de rigueur, likeit's just more more like, you
know, you know, to do X, Y, andZed because it's just been
beaten into you. Not literally,but But you just know all these
little things that other peoplelook at and you're like, oh my
gosh, you know, even teachingpeople to season with acid as
opposed to just reaching forsalt and pepper. Or how far like
(18:16):
a fistful of herbs can go andmaking a dish feel, you know,
lighter and more compelling orwhich herbs to use, like these,
it's just these little touches,that takes the home cook to the
next level. And I love kind ofcreating that roadmap for them
in a way that still feelsrelatable, and and achievable
(18:39):
for sure.
Chris Spear (18:44):
Yeah, I have a friend who as oil and vinegar
shop in town and she always haspeople ask her like, how do you
use vinegar? And to me that'slike, mind blowing like What do
you mean how to use vinegar? Iprobably have 15 coins in my
pantry at home I use it inliterally everything from a
splash and a soup to on top ofchicken as it comes out of the
oven. Like to me it's justsurprising that people have
(19:04):
questions like you said with ahot honey like I thought
everyone knew how to use hothoney, you can find it in every
grocery store your mouth. Yeah,it's honey, which can go on
anything and hot food goes onanything too. Yeah, it
Christine Flynn (19:17):
and but I think too people are so they're
disconnected from food in a lotof ways to or they're nervous
about it. You know, I mean, Iuse the white vinegar I use just
big bottles of it. And I alsowill infuse it right like you
know in spring I take all thechive blossoms don't my white
vinegar over and I just havethat all year. People like to
(19:38):
keep it in the fridge. Where doyou keep it? What do you use it
for? Does it go bad? I don'tlike is vinegar like? No, it
can't go bad. You know, it's oneof the main preservatives. So
yeah, I think that's also forme. Why I really like teaching
the classes here at the goodEarth because you really you're
(19:58):
you're face to face with peopleteaching them how to cook. And
you really start to learn whatpeople don't know. And again,
we're in this bubble, right?
Like, we're cooks, we talked toother cooks, or we talked to
like our spouses or friends who,even that, like there's kind of
a level of knowledge. But whenyou just meet the average person
on the street, you can be, youknow, tosses out. And they're
like, what is that? And then youhave to explain that it's a
(20:19):
regular, but they've just neverseen it.
Chris Spear (20:22):
I did a pop up dinner this weekend. And there
was we had like a chef'scounter, and one of the guys
sitting there had no idea whatlike anything was. And it was
just because I was talking tothe whole dinner and like
everything I took out, he'd belike, what's that? And to me, it
was all very basic,straightforward stuff. It's
like, you mean, you've neverlike you've never seen grits
before. And then I've got like,collard greens is like, I've
(20:44):
never had those, what kind ofgreens are that? I'm like, you
know, like, I was like, in his30s, like, almost 40. I'm like,
really, like, you don't knowthese ingredients. It wasn't
like some exotic thing fromanother country, the other side
of the world, but the things wetake for granted.
Christine Flynn (20:58):
Yeah, it's interesting, and the access that
we have. And also, I think allall cooks, you know, kind of
worth their salt, have a levelof curiosity, right. And we're
always reading, we're always,you know, we're always going to
events, we're always looking atwhat other chefs are doing. And,
again, I think we don't evenrealize how much we know, you
(21:20):
know.
Chris Spear (21:21):
So why tackle a cookbook? I mean, I know we all
have personal things to sayabout cooking and recipes. But
there's 1000s of cookbooks outthere, you know, it just seems
like a daunting task to beginwith. So you have to probably
really be driven and committedto do this. So what made you
want to do that as anundertaking?
Christine Flynn (21:41):
Well, it's funny, it's driven and committed
are two words I would use todescribe myself. But yeah, I
mean, this this cookbook, inparticular, I feel like these
are recipes that are reallytremendously useful. And I don't
think that there are too toomany cookbooks, which do
celebrate humble ingredientslike cabbage and like potatoes,
(22:05):
and which really also highlightvegetables. In a way though,
where it's not. It's not avegetarian cookbook, by any
stretch of the imagination,there's a section dedicated to
meats, but I think it is amodern way of cooking in a
modern way of eating. And it'san interesting thing to write
because it was all written andtested during COVID. And I live
(22:27):
in a small town at the time. Imean, I had an adult roommate,
but I was, you know, living onmy own with two kids who are at
the time were about three. So itwasn't like I was able to like
run to the grocery store. And weweren't even able to go to the
grocery store for a littlewhile. So everything that I was
sourcing for this book was, youknow, pantry items really cheap.
(22:49):
The way that publishing works inCanada, like you really don't
get a big chunk of that advance.
So it was kind of all out ofpocket for me. But the result is
all these recipes are, you know,within reason, I would say like
really affordable to make. AndI'm not sort of like everything
needs bacon, or like slatherthis in some sort of premium
ingredient, it's like, you'regonna have to maybe put a little
bit of work in, but not too muchwork in. And these are just
(23:11):
simple ingredients that you canelevate with vinegar, or you
know, herbs or whatever. Andit's, it's about to like the
pleasures of the table, but alsothe pleasures of cooking. And, I
mean, I'm babbling now, but Ireally feel like I have a unique
perspective. I mean, I don'tthink there's many chefs with my
kind of background, which, youknow, someone recently called me
(23:37):
like the best kept secret inCanada or whatever. And it's
kind of like a backhandedcompliment. But I've been in
this industry for 20 years, I'vecooked at the James Beard house.
You know, I've, I've been in amyriad of festivals, I was the
culinary director of theNantucket Wine Festival when I
was like 27. You know, I wasexecutive chef of nine
restaurants by the time I was35. And I have this huge, long
(23:59):
career. But what I'm reallyfocused on now is family
cooking. And I think thatmerging those two things, it's a
really special part of the Venndiagram that I'm in, and I think
also as like a mother of twins.
And, uh, you know, I mean, I'mmarried now, but a single mom
(24:20):
for a long time. Like, there'sjust like a level of can do,
which I bring to the wholething, which I think makes it
special. And also the aestheticsI mean, I'm driven by the need
to create beauty in my own life,you know, as a little bit of
almost like a small act ofresistance. Like sometimes the
(24:42):
world feels overwhelming, but Ireally put a lot into the way
the book looks. Which again,it's just it's from my
background and from the way thatyou know, I've lived my life,
but just bringing that out andmaking like it's a really I
think very unique book with alot in They're so much that I
can't form a coherent sentenceor out.
Chris Spear (25:03):
I do love I'm drawn for some reason to this creamy
radish dip that's in there. Ifeel like that's gonna be the
first thing I'm gonna make. Andagain, that's something like I
feel like people don't eatradishes like we always have
them in our house. And like oneof our big things is we always
have like, crudity on the table,but then whenever I put them
into a dish, people are like,what is this a radish? I'm like,
(25:23):
yeah, you've never had thembefore. But, but for me, you do
make this book that has a lot ofreally cool recipes that I think
everyone's gonna enjoy. And Ithink it's also the kind of book
that you could cook with kids.
You know, it's not like Cookingfor Kids per se or with you
know, there's a lot of likecooking with kids books, I hate
those books, because they'realways so like, dumbed down and
mundane. And I feel like a lotof these recipes, you know, I
(25:46):
actually have twins myself.
They're 10 I have boy girltwins, and they love being with
me in the kitchen and findingrecipes that I feel like are
also accessible that they couldhelp with. I think this is one
of those books. So yeah, youknow how that goes as we try and
cook our way through this book.
Christine Flynn (26:01):
Yeah, no, honestly, I mean, my kids
started you know, mixing chiapudding when they were like a
year and a half old, you know,and, and even now, like we eat a
lot of carbs, but they helpedme. They helped me roll pizza
dough, we make Lamin which islike a Middle Eastern. It's like
a It's a lamb flatbread, youknow, spiked with like all spice
(26:23):
and cinnamon and peppers. Andit's delicious. And they just
think it's pizza. But we makeLamington together, and they
roll the dough and I made padsSee you at home the other night,
and they helped me pull thenoodles. And you know, it's a
real like, they don't know whatthey know. But cooking with kids
(26:45):
doesn't have to be like PandaBear cupcakes. It can be a panda
bear cupcakes are great, or likehappy face pizza. But it can
also be, you know, moremeaningful because cooking with
kids. And I could talk aboutthis forever. But like they're
learning so much. They'relearning fractions. They're
(27:05):
learning teamwork. They'relearning patience.
Chris Spear (27:08):
That's that's the way that I taught my kids
fractions, because that's wheremy kids are in school right now
is they're doing fractions. Andwhen I think about fractions,
that's literally what I use itfor all the time. And when we're
trying to visualize like they'rehaving to add fractions. And the
easiest thing is for me to takelike a half cup measuring cup,
and a quarter cup measuring cupout, and then the third cup and
be like, see, that's how thenumbers come together. One half
(27:28):
plus one quarter equals threequarters. And for me, it just
made sense. So I love doingthat. It's like, let's just get
over here with all the cookingstuff. And that'll help put it
all together. Right.
Christine Flynn (27:38):
And I think particularly baking is great for
that. And I'm actually I reallylove the baking section in this
book. Because, again, so manypeople are daunted by baking,
and particularly even inprofessional kitchens. Like, I
just know so many folks who arelike, I'm Chef, I'm not a Baker,
(27:58):
and I'm like, Just wait, I
Chris Spear (27:59):
just wing it. I don't measure things, right?
Isn't that what we've heard forso many years? Like,
Christine Flynn (28:03):
come on, man, like, my grandma could bake a
cake. And she wasn't a chef,either, you know, and it's just
like, there's a real, you know,oh, and it's like, yeah, baking
is a science, but it's not exactscience. And like we're not
laminating any dose here. Youknow, you could knock together a
cake in five minutes. You know,you just got to chuck a few
things in the blender and pourit in a pan like you're fine,
(28:25):
you know, and I do yeah, Ireally love like quick, kind of
thoughtful but delicious, makingrecipes because I think it also
it's just like one more kind ofthing to have in your back
pocket. And one more way to justenjoy being in the kitchen and
to enjoy the results.
Chris Spear (28:44):
Yeah, I work as a personal chef, that's my full
time job. And you know, I don'treally want to buy premade
products and I had to kind ofteach myself more and more
desserts and I'm seeing thatwith a lot of my peers who are
doing the same thing because somany of us were trained
professionally in the savorykitchen you know you maybe did
like expo or something or workedin pantry and had to like
garnish desserts but we weren'tmaking them into now offer 15
(29:07):
different desserts to mycustomers. You really had to
figure out some things and youplay to your strengths like
decorating is never going to bemy thing like decorating a
beautiful wedding cake. I'm notgoing to get there but I can
make some delicious dessertsthat I think still look nice. I
have my eyes on the molasseschocolate cookies and your
because Molasses Cookies are myall time favorite cookie. But
(29:27):
chocolate chip are kind of likea close second. So I feel like
you've kind of found a way tobridge that together. And are
they good? Are they
Christine Flynn (29:35):
Oh good and they don't like they don't not
like in a nice way tastes like achunk some boy which I like I
like when my stuff kind oftastes like something janky and
nostalgic like from childhood soyeah, I actually made those the
other day and and I mean mygirls love them but like I love
them. And after my girls went tobed I definitely also made an
(29:56):
ice cream sandwich.
Chris Spear (29:58):
That's a pro move right there. Yeah, I
Christine Flynn (30:00):
was like, oh, but it's they have such a nice
texture too, because I like thema little underbaked. And then
they firm up and then it's,yeah, now I want that again. But
yeah, they're great for an icecream sandwich.
Chris Spear (30:10):
Where do you find inspiration and not necessarily
just in the culinary world, Ithink we draw from all over. And
maybe if you know, you'retalking about the culinary
world, that's fine. But alsolike what just inspires you.
Christine Flynn (30:21):
I mean, a lot of like, a lot of a lot of what
inspires me is just the idea of,again, sort of creating like a
beautiful life. And for me, foodis part of that making in
general is part of that, like, Ireally try and create more than
I consume. And lately, I've beenworking a little more than I'd
(30:44):
like to be. So I'm not doing asmuch creating at home, I'm still
cooking a lot, but, but I so alot, I really got into that a
few years ago, when I startedkind of making a lot of my own
clothes. Actually, I made theshirt and sort of moving a
little bit into that world,which Instagram is kind of a
weird place. And I've had aninteresting relationship with it
(31:07):
over the years, because it'sreally helped me kind of grow my
platform. But I also kind of,I'm really pretty selective in
how I use it. Like, I don'treally go on there and look at
what other people are doing.
Unless it's women in the sewingcommunity, because that's like,
my favorite thing. It's just anice group of middle aged women
complimenting each other. And Ilove that, right? So yeah, I'm
(31:30):
very inspired by like design.
I'm very inspired by like a kindof specific, sort of, like a
really cozy aesthetic, if thatmakes sense. And I think in
looking at the book it does, butI'm also I don't know, I'm also
(31:51):
inspired by Yeah, just kind ofplaces I've been and things I've
seen and big, beautiful piecesof art, and wonderful pieces of
music. When I was in university,through happenstance, I ended up
in Czech Republic, and I studiedthe aesthetics of Baroque opera
there, which you wouldn't thinkwould be useful. But I just I
(32:17):
learned a lot about like designthere, but also about Eastern
European culture, General, andhistory and communism. And yeah,
there's a real kind of like thruline in my work that celebrates
I think, Eastern Europeanculture. And that sort of, I
don't know, I love green velvetand brass.
Chris Spear (32:38):
No, that's cool. I want I think everyone should
have hobbies, outside theirprofession, because, you know,
it's fine to go deep. But Ithink it's also nice to have
something and now we're in thislike, side hustle economy. And
like, every time you get ahobby, everyone's like, well,
you should, you know, put thaton Etsy, or whatever, or create
a blog for it's like, sometimesI just want to do my thing.
(32:58):
Like, I love photography. And Istarted my own Instagram, just
for like photography to like,just post my stuff and not have
to, like, make it optimized forthe likes and the engagement,
like Oh, three people like myphoto cool, I don't really care.
And then I just follow likeartists and interesting people
in the, you know, musicians Iwant to listen to, because you
can't do that from your businessaccount, because then it throws
(33:20):
off the algorithm and all thatnonsense, right?
Christine Flynn (33:24):
Yeah, I mean, Instagram is not the place I go.
It's not really the place I gofor much inspiration. It's
certainly not the place I go formy news. And I think a lot of
people are on the other side ofthat on the other side of that
line, but I don't know, I don'twant to open something that's
supposed to be for fun and feelstressed out. I just, I can't
live like that I can't createfrom a place of of anxiety and
(33:46):
stress. And I can't come up withsolutions from that place. Some
people maybe can, but I thinkwe're, we're often surrounded by
a lot of negativity. And so Itry and keep everything like
light and bright. And, you know,I just look at a lot of pictures
of mouse cartoons on theinternet. And that makes me
happy.
Chris Spear (34:05):
Whatever works for you, but you did have an alter
ego a couple of years ago,right, like 2015 2016 or so like
you were someone else on theinternet.
Christine Flynn (34:15):
Yeah, I had a satirical Instagram. And, you
know, I mean, there was likeanything I've done, there was a
lot there to unpack. And Idon't, you know, I it's not
something that I really talkabout much because it's a little
bit like taking the hat offMickey Mouse, you know what I
mean? And this character kindof, he very much stood on his
(34:36):
own, and I think was emblematic,you know, he's a bit of an
everyman as a cook. And, youknow, again, high level of
detail, very specific backstory,like anyone who followed along,
kind of got to know him and hisway and I've really met him
before in a weird way, but thatwas fun, you know, and it
(34:58):
definitely I think it changedthe course of my career too,
because a lot of a lot of be Ithink being a woman in the
industry, a lot of people don'treally think that you're capable
of much. At that time. I wasjust, I don't say just but yeah,
you know, as a lady makingsalads in Toronto, and nobody
(35:20):
ever suspects the lady makingsalads in Toronto having this
Instagram account with like ahuge following a tremendous
following at that time. So itwas fun, but it was also just
kind of for me, it was like,Yeah, I can do this. I can do
other stuff, too. You know?
Chris Spear (35:36):
Yeah. It's fun to poke fun at the industry,
though. Like, I think whateverindustry you're in, and I think
that's probably why there was somuch success. You know, I think
you're seeing it now. If you've,you know, the sauce summons on
Instagram kind of same thing,like subversive, subversive,
like jabs at the restaurantindustry and like a tongue in
cheek way, but like, also kindof serious.
Christine Flynn (35:54):
Yeah, I mean with with jock. He was never, he
was never mean, right. And thatwas something that was really
interesting. Like, I createdthis nice little corner of the
internet where like, yeah, hewould make fun of himself. And
yeah, there was obviously somestuff there about the reliance
on an immigrant workforce orworkforce. Sorry. There was
(36:17):
stuff about sexism, you know,there's all kinds of things down
a layer, but it was never meanspirited. And it was never
targeted at anyone. And it wasnever sort of, it never went
after anyone and even the peoplewho came with negative comments,
which was very few. His responsewas always like, super cheerful
and super, like, Thanks,brother, you know, and it was a
(36:40):
really, you know, it was areally interesting social
experiment for me. And it was away also for me to use these
skills, plating and, you know,develop some skills in
photography, I guess, you know,that have really, yeah, I've
really helped.
Chris Spear (36:56):
And I think at its core, like it was kind of like
the food that a lot of us wantedto eat, like, how many times you
talk about, like chefs who,like, really just want to eat a
taco or a burger anyway, like, Iwork like, Cheez Its until,
like, my dishes that I sell tomy customers, you know, like,
who doesn't love that stuff? So,
Christine Flynn (37:11):
yeah, and you think I mean, I think we see
more of that now. For sure. ButI think that that account,
really kind of it changed theshape of food and you know, a
little bit of a way because itwas like, Yeah, who doesn't love
a choco taco? You know, like,let's be honest, but I think
there was also an element ofplating kind of got out of
control there for a little bit.
And, you know, I would see thesechefs with these huge followings
(37:35):
online, and I would eat at therestaurants, I'd be like, this
is not very good, you know,still out there. Yes,
absolutely. emphatically, yes.
And we do eat with our eyesfirst, but at the end of the
day, like the flavors got to bethere. And again, that's where
with my food, you know, insofaras, like, I can put together a
(37:55):
delicate plate. You know,there's also nothing wrong with
a big nine by 13 pan of beige,you know what I mean? Like,
there's a lot of good food outthere that doesn't look that
beautiful. And we really do haveto strike a balance in the way
that we are eating and the waythat we're presenting and, you
know, I think yeah, tinyportions, tweezers, everything
(38:16):
and doesn't necessarilyguarantee like a great eating
experience.
Chris Spear (38:19):
No, I love brown food. You know, there's nothing.
This again, at this dinner I didthis weekend. It was grits with
like a braised short rib andcollard greens. We've got like
yellow grits, and like brownmeat with like drab green, but
like there was so many flavorsand what I worked, and I
resisted the urge to just, like,throw nasturtiums on there just
because or whatever. Yeah, it'slike, you don't need to always
(38:40):
do that.
Christine Flynn (38:41):
Yeah, and you don't always need to fuss with
things so much. I think JuliaChild very famously said that
she didn't like food thatappears to have been fingered,
and, you know, absolutely likeand I do love like every once in
a while, like a delicate plateof crudo or something that
clearly is had a lot of thoughtput into the plating. But
there's a lot of dishes outthere where it's like, you know,
(39:02):
just just give me a piece ofmeat, you know, and some
potatoes and I'll be happy.
Chris Spear (39:07):
I actually met you at the star chefs Congress. Like
I guess that was probably like2016 like probably like right
after you're coming out thereand I was there with will
Gilson. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah.
And I think like you're servingfood for the lunch, one of the
lunches that was days orsomething like I have picture
somewhere in my archive. So ifyou like making food, I think
Christine Flynn (39:26):
I were you were to realize that at that time,
Chris Spear (39:29):
you were pregnant with twins at that time. Yeah.
That was before I
Christine Flynn (39:33):
found out I found out. I was maybe six or
seven weeks pregnant, where Iwas like, why am I getting so
chubby? And it's because I wascarrying two babies at the same
time. But yeah, starships wasone of my last kind of events
that I did for a while therebecause I was just And yeah, I
wanted to do something differentand everyone kept trying to
shuttle me into being this, youknow, come here and play junk
(39:56):
food and I was like, it's reallynot exciting. Like it was a
joke, you know, and And nowwe're taking it too far. But I
do love New York, it was a nicetrip to New York, I remember
that.
Chris Spear (40:05):
It's always a good trip. I've missed it, because
they haven't had it since theCOVID. Year. So I guess 2019 was
the last year. What doessustainability mean to you? I
know you talked about, like,using things, you know, that you
had on hand. To me, that's a lotof sustainability is like
wasting nothing. You've touchedon that. And that's, you know,
so many of the guests I'mtalking to recently, that's one
of the big things they've kindof been focusing on, you know,
(40:27):
when they started their businessor in the past few years. So
what are like some of the thingsyou're interested in, in the
realm of sustainability?
Christine Flynn (40:35):
I mean, there's definitely a few different
things and there's also like,my, my at home and my at work.
But yeah, at home, I'm I'mpretty good, right? Like, I
really don't waste too much. Tothe point where, like, it's a
well known fact, amongst mygroup of friends that like my
deep freezer just has like somuch random stuff in it, but I'm
(40:55):
like, I'm not throwing out thosebones. Like I'm gonna make a
stew. But yeah, I mean, I prettymuch I use almost everything
even if it's just, you know, theherbs are going a bit, man, you
know, I put them in a ziptop bagin the freezer, they go into my
next pot of broth. My next book,which I'm working on now, like I
have a whole section on a littlestuff I don't throw out and how
(41:16):
to use it like whether it's, youknow, cheese rinds, bread butts,
dill pickle juice is a big onethat like, I feel like people
just toss and it's like, I cangive you 10 different things you
can do with that.
Chris Spear (41:29):
I have a jar in my fridge that it's a combo with
like half and half dill picklejuice and like pickled jalapeno
juice. And it's just like thismaster mother jar of like when
something ends I add some moreand yeah,
Christine Flynn (41:39):
like make a salad dressing like poach a
piece of fish. Do you have yoursmash burgers? Like at the end?
Not to start? Yeah, so manydifferent things. Put it on
oysters. But yeah, like I thinkI have a long list of things
that normally people throw outand I don't really throw out. I
make a lot of bras. I love soup.
I don't know. Yeah, justeverything goes into into
(42:02):
something else. I feel likewhich is very funny and ironic
because when I was a kid, we'dalways be like mom corn and the
lasagna again, like she and shealways did that. So for me, like
sustainability at home is reallytrying to use everything. And
but in a way where you're noteating the same thing over and
over again. And I think I'mreally good at that I'm really
(42:22):
good at taking, you know, onenight's roast chicken and
turning it into like sixdifferent meals, that all taste
very different. Because I thinklike leftover fatigue is a real
thing. And I think that inshowing people how I do that
pretty regularly like that is mylittle sustainability gift to
the world. I try and feel likeand again, the next book that
(42:45):
I'm working on I you know, Iactually have like Master
recipes, and then how to usethem, as well as sort of formula
recipes where it's the same sortof base of X amount of vinegar,
X amount of broth X amount ofyou know, delta. And here's how
you would do that with tofu.
Here's how you do chicken,here's a fish kind of thing. So
(43:06):
I really try to create recipesthat teach people that again, in
a way that feels fun, right?
Because some people want you toget on board with sustainability
again, from a place of fear froma place of anxiety from a place
of finger wagging. And for me,I'm like, yo, I'm having the
best party, we've got the bestsnacks, would you like to come?
(43:26):
Bring your puffy sleeves, youknow. And so I think that is
really important for me. And onthe puffy sleeves. Note, I
think, again, something for methat's important in terms of
sustainability is. And this is alittle detail in the book that
not everyone will notice. Butpretty much every single item of
clothing in that book I eithermade myself or is thrifted. And
(43:47):
we can all be here for the ideaof farm to table which because
it's not actually verified byanyone. What does that even
mean? But we can all be here forlike local sourcing and really
trying to do our best with foodwaste. And I think that that is
super important. But the numbertwo worst environmental offender
(44:09):
behind big oil is not big ag,it's fast fashion. And so that
is another part of like myparty, where like I'm usually
wearing goofy clothing. Andagain, but almost like I haven't
bought new clothes and maybelike five years other than
underpants. You don't reallyhave to talk about but you know
what I mean? And so I steppedout of the cycle, which I think
(44:31):
most of us are in it. We don'teven realize it. But yeah, I
don't support brands anymore,which are part of the fast
fashion cycle. And that's a realkey piece of sustainability.
That for me is just like thesoft sell where it's like yeah,
like wear the shoulder pads likeby the 80s clothes and just come
to my party like come to thisplace of joy. And not sort of
(44:53):
not the finger wag there's aparty going on downstairs. Yeah,
I mean, in general, restaurantsare hard to make them
sustainable. I, there's veryfew. And when you're a small
business, it's really hard. Butone of the things that we've
really tried to do at myrestaurants in Toronto is we've
(45:15):
really tried to support andamplify regenerative
agriculture. So that's anotherbig one, just with climate
change is letting people know,again, more about the solutions
and less about the problems. Soregenerative agriculture,
farmers use low or no tillfarming methods, agricultural
(45:36):
methods, and they're able totake carbon out of the
atmosphere, and put it back inthe ground where it belongs. And
if we converted, like, I thinkit's like 1000, or something of
like, just regular oldagriculture to regenerative
agriculture, we would not juststop climate change, we would
actually be able to reverse it,which would be wonderful.
(46:00):
Because sometimes, especiallythe summer when it's like real
hot, and I'm like, I've neverbeen this hot, like, you just
want a turtle, right. And as aparent, it's something that I
really kind of struggled withwhen I had, you know, my girls,
and you're full of hormones, andyou're kind of crazy anyway. And
I was like, What have I done,you know, what are we doing, but
you can't turtle but you can geton board with people who are
(46:23):
doing the right thing. And evenjust letting people know that
regenerative agriculture exists,I don't care if they come to my
restaurant, I care that theyknow that regenerative
agriculture is a solution andthat they can go and buy st
Bridget's butter, they can goand buy greens from the new
farm. Like there's all theselittle, you know, kind of farms
and producers who are poppingup. And by driving the message
(46:43):
home of this as a solution. Ithink that that's, you know, one
of my things that I really tryand do to help and I'm just one
person, for sure. But I think,you know, I think that those
kind of small solutions arehelpful to people. And so that's
what I try to do.
Chris Spear (47:03):
And it's not all or nothing, you know, I think
sometimes it's really easy toget overwhelmed like that you
have to be composting and savingall your scraps and recycling
everything. And it's easy tojust be like I can't do any of
this. But like, start slow. It'slike changing your diet and
lifestyle. Like you don't haveto start running marathons just
like maybe get up and walk alittle bit the same thing and
trying to get people to justfind one or two things that
(47:26):
really works for them. And youknow, then maybe it snowballs a
little bit right. And I think itdrives creativity for someone
who's a chef or cook or culinaryreally inspired like the idea of
vinegar, right? Like, I'm goingon vacation, I got instructions
in my backyard. I just go andgrab them and throw them in a
jar with vinegar and I come backfrom vacation I have this like
really cool bright red nester,some vinegar, you know, it's
(47:47):
like because I don't want towaste something that I put the
energy into growing. So for meit like kind of drives
creativity. What do I havethat's getting ready to go? How
do I use it and make some newcondiments or something?
Christine Flynn (47:59):
Yeah, I find so much creativity in my kitchen
comes from Yeah, trying not towaste things, you know, going to
like no frills and seeing what'son sale. You know, I never
really have a plan for what I'mgoing to cook each day. It's
just kind of five o'clock. And Ilook around and I think like
this is what I have. And yeah,being creative with what you've
(48:21):
got or what you can get. That'sa that's a huge kind of step
towards sustainability. Andpeople might not even realize
that but it is
Chris Spear (48:31):
most definitely.
Well, is there anything you wantto share with our listeners
before we get out of here today?
Christine Flynn (48:36):
Yeah, I mean, check out the book. It's called
a generous meal, modern RecipesFor Dinner. It's full of
wonderful and sometimes weirdrecipes, and a lot of personal
kind of touches and essays andlittle easter eggs that I think
people will enjoy. But it's youknow, it's meant to improve
people's lives in a way thatfeels both aspirational and
(48:58):
achievable. You know, andthat's, I think the book for
right now. And we're all lookingfor more recipes with cabbage
and cans of beans. They're allin there, but they taste
delicious, and they're easy tomake.
Chris Spear (49:11):
I love the book, I'm gonna keep working my way
through it. I'll keep you postedon how that's going. And as
always, I share photos of myexperiments on the internet. So
for all the listeners, if you'refollowing me, you might see some
of these recipes pop up in yourfeed. And I'd like everything in
the show notes so people will beable to pick up that book.
Amazing. Well, thanks for comingon the show. I really enjoyed
having you today. Yeah, thankyou so much. This was so much
(49:32):
fun. And to all of ourlisteners. As always, this is
Chris and this was the ChefsWithout Restaurants podcast.
Thanks for listening and have agreat week. Go to chefs without
restaurants.org To find ourFacebook group, mailing list and
check database. The community isfree to join. You'll get gig
opportunities, advice onbuilding and growing your
business and you'll never missan episode of our podcast. Have
(49:54):
a great week.
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