Albert Castiglia

When blues powerhouse Albert Castiglia crossed paths with Bill Murray, neither could have predicted the musical partnership that would follow. In this captivating conversation with Greg Koch, Castiglia pulls back the curtain on how a Hollywood legend became his unexpected bandmate through a series of serendipitous connections that began with Murray's brother John.

"If Bill Murray wants to play in your band, you let him in your band," Castiglia remarks with characteristic humor. But beneath the celebrity factor lies a genuine musical connection that has taken them from intimate clubs to prestigious venues like Red Rocks. Far from seeking the spotlight, Murray approaches their collaboration with refreshing humility, insisting on equal billing and content to play percussion while occasionally stepping forward for a song. The audience response has been electric, with fans sometimes appearing in Ghostbusters costumes, moved to tears by Murray's magnetic stage presence.

Castiglia's own journey through the blues landscape reveals the persistence required to build a sustainable career. From his early influences (discovering blues through Clapton and Johnny Winter's productions with Muddy Waters) to navigating the catch-22 of needing both a record deal and booking agent simultaneously, he speaks candidly about industry challenges. After cycling through five agencies, finding the right representation finally allowed him to expand from 100 shows annually to between 150-200 performances a year.

The conversation touches on deeper themes of artistic growth, with Castiglia recently incorporating Coltrane's "Afro Blue" into his setlists after being inspired by Derek Trucks. He also reflects on lifestyle changes that have sustained his longevity, embracing sobriety after COVID and taking up boxing and Kung Fu to maintain his energy for grueling tour schedules. "I do this for the memories," he explains, capturing the essence of why musicians endure the hardships of the road.

Ready to experience a genuine conversation between two musicians who've weathered decades in the business? Subscribe now and join us for more candid talks with roots music's most compelling voices.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Ladies and gentlemen, it's time once again for
another season of Chewing theGristle with yours truly Greg
Kauk.
Can you believe it's alreadyseason six?
We've got so many coolinterviews lined up.
Are we going to talk aboutmusic, you betcha?
But what else are we going totalk about?
Well, quite frankly, anythingthat comes to mind.
So stay tuned, doggone it.

(00:30):
Let's chew that doggone gristle.
Season six come this week.
On Chewing the Gristle we havemodern blues leviathan, Albert
Castiglia.
He's a good buddy of mine and aheck of a nice guy.
Great musician, guitar player,singer, songwriter he does it

(00:52):
all.
You've also seen him with theBlood Brothers, Currently on the
road with the Blood Brotherswith Bill Murray.
We've got some good storiestoday Chewing the Gristle with
Albert Castiglia.
We were talking about how JimmyVivino was kind of your conduit
to meeting Bill.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
In order to work Jimmy into this story, we got to
go back to how it started.
So Bill's younger brother, john, who's also an actor In fact
you might have seen him inScrooged he was Frank Cross's
younger brother, james and hewas in the scene with Wendy

(01:34):
Malick where they were in theliving room playing Trivial
Pursuit and Bill was peekingthrough the window with the
ghost right.
Right was peeking through thewindow with the ghost right
Right and it was actually John'sidea to come up with the SS
Minnow James line at the veryend of the movie.
Do you remember that part ofthe movie?
I don't, okay shit.

(01:55):
So I'm wasting my time tellingyou this, but John was an actor
himself.
He was in a lot of Bill'smovies and John was a fan of
Mike and I and we got to meethim through Chris Barnes, who
was a front of band and was awriter for Jim Belushi and Carol

(02:17):
Burnett.
But he reinvented himself as ablues musician and we got to
know Chris and Chris introducedJohn Murray to Mike and I and
John became a fan of the BloodBrothers and our bands
individually and John kepttelling Bill about us.

(02:37):
So Bill invited us, mike and I,and pretty much the Blood
Brothers to do the CaddyshackGolf Tournament that the Murray
Brothers put on in St Augustine,florida, and they have a jam
session that's run by Jimmy.
Jimmy Vivino ran the jamsession.
He was the musical director forthe golf tournament, so he was

(03:03):
part of the whole thing.
That night when we first metBill and Bill sat in and did
five songs with us and John toldus it was the most fun he'd
ever had playing music.
So when we and then he startedcrashing our gigs, bill was
crashing our gigs.
He crashed our gig at the BluesBender in Vegas.

(03:24):
He came to our show in Vegas.
He let us know a few daysbefore that he was coming.
He spent the week with us andthen he showed up and people
just went nuts Right and he justplayed percussion for most of
the set and then came out anddid a couple songs at the end
and people loved it.
And then Bill reached out toZito because Zito is very tight
with Bill and told him he wantedto do more of it but they

(03:49):
wanted to make some adjustments.
So they added we added Jimmy tothe mix because he was part of
it from the beginning and hereally adds a lot to the project
.
He's such a great player and he, I mean next to Lou Paulo, I
think he might be the next Kingof inversions, cause he just
finds, finds, other other partsto play when Mike, mike and I,

(04:12):
you know, are playing and andand he's got.
He's a great singer, yeah, andI think Bill Bill wanted him,
him along for the ride, and Iand we were all for it, you know
, awesome.
And then Jimmy Carpenter joinedas well, saxophone player.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
Okay, and yeah, so it sounds like it's been fun, oh
yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
It's been a lot of fun.
You know you get some grief onFacebook from people you know
they're like.
Well, how could you, as anestablished artist you know,
cling on to an actor or acelebrity and play with them,
and it's very easy.
I mean, if Bill Murray wants toplay in your band, you can let

(05:01):
him in your band.
It was an honor for him to wantto do it with us.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
Absolutely what people say on social media, as
much as we well know.
It's like people are just.
Most people are great, butyou'll get the few people that
need to express their but asartists we always remember that
of course you can get a hundredgreat comments and the one is
the one you're the one bad oneis the one that's going to trip

(05:31):
your trigger, but uh I just gotone because of uh norman.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
Norman harris uh played me.
Uh, I did some videos at norm'sright guitar shop and it was
great man, 80,000 views andeverything and everything's
awesome, and somebody goes oh, Iplayed those licks when I was
20.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
It's like no, you didn't, and shut up and.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
I said, yeah, but I'm playing mine at Norm's and
there's always people want topee in the punch, but it's been
so great.
Number one he's a pretty goodpercussionist and he's a good
singer.
He's.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
Bill Murray.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
But he also has.
What really sets him apart isthat charisma he has.
Oh yeah, I mean, when we do,like a Rolling Stone, the Bob
Dylan song, I mean he's notsinging it like Dylan would have
sung it or like he would havesung it in the 60s, because
Dylan sings it anyway.
He wants now, right, but hedoesn't stay true to the

(06:38):
original melody, he just hashe's behind the lyrics sometimes
, but he's got this energy andso you see people in the
audience dressed up inGhostbusters outfits.
You know crying in the audience.
You know crying because he'sjust got this.
He's just connecting with theaudience in such a way that I've

(07:01):
never, you know, I haven't seenbefore.
It's pretty amazing to behold.
And he doesn't want to be thefocal point in the band, which
is another thing that's veryrefreshing.
He just wants to be a part ofthe band, right, that's cool.
When we did our first show inChicago with him, we felt we had
a meeting and we all felt thatmaybe he didn't get as much love

(07:24):
on the on the show, in the showthat he should have, like he
should have gotten a few moresongs.
And so we brought it to him andhe said look, man, we're going
to structure the set so that youget a little, you get a little
more singing time.
And he's like, no, that's notwhat I want.
I want us to all just be this,have the same amount of songs,
and that's what I want.
Right, I said, okay, if that'swhat you want and it.

(07:45):
And we were nervous at firstbecause we, everybody wants to
hear Bill sing.
We thought, you know, butthey're, they're content with
the band and they, they, peopleare happy with the amount of
songs he does and they're just.
They like seeing them up thereplay percussion and have a good
time.
And the venues have beenawesome, I'm sure go from
playing the do drop in.
And now we, you know, now, nowwe're doing a shoot.

(08:07):
We got, we got red rocks withbig head Todd and Warren Haynes.
That's wild.
It took Bill Murray for me, forme to get to red rocks.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
Man, I was like well, that's the thing that I think
people you know again, not thatwe care too much about the, you
know the peanut gallery whenthey get caustic in terms of
commentary.
But when you're a musician thattours around, and especially in
this roots blues world, andyou're hitting clubs and it's

(08:40):
not like I mean you just take ita day at a time, it's like, hey
, we had a good gig last night.
Oh, tonight wasn't so great,but we had fun playing.
I mean it's literally justbeing in the moment, enjoying
what you're doing, because itjust is what it is.
So when these opportunitiescome across, it's just part of
the adventure.
And all of a sudden you're likepinching yourself.

(09:01):
Well, now I'm doing this andall of a sudden, you're like
pinching yourself.

Speaker 2 (09:06):
Well, now I'm doing this.
Yeah, that's when I make apoint of telling people, like
you know, this is our livelihood.
But I think personally I can'tspeak for you, greg, but I do
this for the memories, theamount of memories this life has
brought us.
You can't put a price on manand this is one of those things

(09:30):
I'm never going to forget.
Right, and it's just, we'reblessed, we're both blessed to
be doing this, no doubt Becauseit takes us to some amazing
places and there's no blueprintto it.
There's no blueprint to life ingeneral, but there's certainly
no blueprint to this profession,man.
I mean, it's just never knowwhere it's going to take you,

(09:53):
absolutely.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
So let's talk a little bit about how you got
into all this stuff.
You were born in New York, butthen your family moved down to
Florida, yeah, so what attractedyou to blues-oriented music
early on?
Was it something you were intofrom the get-go, or was it
something you were exposed tolater, or how did it work?

Speaker 2 (10:15):
Well, I was into what my dad listened to the classic
rock radio of the time, whichwas the stuff from the 60s, and
before that we used to listen toWaxy 106.
It was the local South Floridaradio station and they'd play

(10:36):
like Dion and the Belmonts, allthe way up to like the
Strawberry Alarm Clock, you know, and things like that.
But my uncle played guitar andI kind of got into what he was
into and you know he was intoHendrix and Grand Funk Railroad.
Yes, yes, grand Funk.

(10:56):
Yeah, I think Heartbreakermight have been the first song
I'd ever learned.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
How about that that Grand Funk live record?
Good God almighty.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
Great record.
That's the one and, and, uh.
So that's how I got into.
You know, I got.
I I got into the guitar thingthrough him, his, his, uh, his
buddy, my uncle and his buddywould come.
His buddy would come over.
He, like my uncle, was livingin my grandparents house and his
buddy would come over to thehouse and they'd just play drums

(11:27):
and guitar.
It was like the Black Keys, butnot as good.
They're pretty bad.
But I was 12, and I wasintrigued by it.
And then he gave me a guitarand I just started learning from
a Bob Dylan songbook that hehad in his drawer along with his

(11:48):
stash.
That's how I got into itthrough the classic rock guys.
The blues came to me indirectlythrough guys like Hendrix.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
Yeah, same here.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
It's the same thing for me how else would it, would
a middle-class white guy, getinto blues?
Exactly then, through throughthe gateway drug, which was rock
and roll.
Exactly correct, then I boughta Clapton album called Just One
Night yes, one of my favoriterecords of all time, that's's
how I heard about.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
Albert Lee.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yes, Albert Lee.
Albert Lee and I think GaryBrooker was a keyboard player on
that from Pro Call Harem.
What a great album.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
Chris Dayton, I think , is on that record.

Speaker 2 (12:37):
Chris Dayton correct.
In fact, his piano intro toTulsa Time, I think, is the
first song on the album.
And then he goes right intoEarly in the Morning.
The old Junior Wells song andthat's when I first really got
exposed to blues was throughthat album.
It's like a third of the songson that album were blues tunes.

(12:58):
It was Early in the Morning.
There was, further on Up theRoad, double Trouble Rambling on
my mind.
Yes, absolutely so.
That's where I kind of said,well, this is interesting.
And then I started delving intothe original versions of these
songs.
Right, I was about 15.
And then, around 16, I boughtmy first Muddy Waters album.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
Art, Again the one that.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Johnny Winter produced, oh indeed, which the
purists like to skew, but youknow, skewer.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
That's his best record.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
Oh, I agree, I talked to Johnny about it before he
died.
I said thank you for makingthat record.
He goes oh man, that was anawesome record to make.
You know we did everything inone take.
That's awesome.
And you know you hear that onetake.
That's awesome.
And uh, you know you hear that.
Yeah, the first time I heardthat album you know the first
when you, when you it was acassette actually I played the

(13:53):
cassette the first thing youhear is muddy's voice, his
acapella voice, that boomingvoice, and it scared the shit
out of me.
I ran under the bed when Iheard it.
Whoa, yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
And I ran under the bed and that changed.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
That was the album that solidified my path in terms
of where I was going to go withthe music.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
Yeah, that was one of my favorite records.
That was all in at the time.
That was one of my favoriterecords as well.
And you know those four recordsthat Johnny was a part of, you
know Hard Again obviously wasthe best one of them, but you
know I'm Ready the live record.
And then King B I really liked,just because Johnny played more
on it.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah, champagne and Reefer yes.
But you know Johnny told me.
He said he goes man, you, hegoes man.
You know why I loved Hard Againso much?
Because he did everything inone take.
Yeah, Because you know why Ididn't like the other albums
that I did with him afterwardsso much I go?
Why he goes?
Because he wanted to do them inone take.

(14:54):
It's like the magic wasn't thesame for him, although I really
love those albums.
Yeah, they're great All thestuff on Blue Sky was amazing.
Man, yeah, I mean he really Icould love Johnny just for that
Right.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
You know he had so many other things Plus I love
that record that he did Nothingbut the Blues with Muddy's Band.
That's a great record.
Mm-hmm, that was one of myall-time faves.
Yeah, yeah, I love me some,johnny.
There's all kinds of reallycool bootleg stuff that they've
been putting online on iTunes ofJohnny from through the 80s.

(15:36):
There's some fantastic stuff.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
That's when he had the guy he had on bass John.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
Paris, my buddy John.

Speaker 2 (15:46):
I, I love John.
Yeah yeah, that was a hell of aband.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
It was John.
Paris is a Milwaukee boyoriginally, is he really?
Yeah, he was in a band aroundhere called Ox for years and
they were gods.
And then, uh, he moved to NewYork and, uh, then ended up with
Johnny winter and played bass.
But he was actually well, heactually played bass as well,
but great guitar player as well,yeah, I saw him on.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
I saw him solo in Miami when I was younger with
his band.
He was tremendous guitar player.
Yeah, he's a good dude as well.

Speaker 1 (16:18):
He's a good he's.
The reason why I ended upsitting in with Les Paul is
because he arranged it, so thatwas I, my John Paris is my man.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
What was that like?
Oh, that was awesome.
I hate to turn the tables onyou and be the interviewer.
But what was that like?
Well, what?

Speaker 1 (16:31):
happened was is that John Paris was doing a.
I came to New York because abuddy of mine that I grew up
with was a actor and singer onBroadway, uh, but was always
kind of a latent rock and roller, and so in between shows he
wanted to do a thing at aoff-Broadway theater where he
just was doing rock songs.
So he flew me out there and itwas like all the other musicians

(16:54):
were like pit musicians outthere who were awesome, and I
did this gig.
That's the reason why I was outin New York and I think the
rehearsal with them was like ona Monday.
I can't remember the exacttimeframe, but I I do know that
the first day I was there I wentout and I sat in with John
Paris at the, at BB Kings, Ibelieve, yeah, and Rusty Paul

(17:14):
was there, les' son, and so hewent up to John and said we
should get this guy to sit inwith dad.
And I'm like, yeah, you should.
So then, after I got done doingmy gig with my buddy which was
earlier in the evening on the Ithink it was a Monday night that
Les was playing I rushed, Itook a grab to cab and went
across town to be there for thesecond set.

(17:35):
My name was at the door.
I walked in and I was there fora few minutes and Les called me
on the stage like we got a guyfrom Milwaukee here who's going
to come up and play.
And then John Paris and I got upthere.
John Paris played harp and wedid Mystery Train and I did one
of my chicken picking onslaughtsand Les looked over after the
end of that song.
He's like turn that guitar overthis way so I can see what the

(17:56):
hell it is you're doing.
Let's do another one.
It was just like and I and Leshanging out and we were the last
ones in the place and we walkedhim up the stairs to go to get
into his car.
Rusty was waiting for him andthen off they went and I looked

(18:17):
at John Perez, we're sittingthere in Times Square.
I was like, well, that justhappened Precisely.
This is why we do it Exactly Allthose little things the coolest
thing about?
Well, the thing happening wasthe coolest thing.
But then years later, after LesPaul died, a local radio
station called me up who I wouldgo on and do little interviews

(18:38):
with and whatnot.
Hey can you come in and tellyour Les Paul story?
So I did.
Hey, can you come in and tellyour Les Paul story?
So I did.
And then somebody who waslistening was there that night
and had pictures and emailed thepictures to the radio station.
Then they gave them to me soI've got pictures of it
happening.
So it's pretty awesome Wow.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
That's pretty awesome .
Something about you Wisconsinpeople in music man.
I went, I had a fan email me.
He said and I had recorded aBob Dylan song called Catfish,
because I'm a baseball fan andhe had written a song about
Catfish Hunter back in the 70sAn umpire came up to me, emailed

(19:20):
me and said, hey, did you writethat song, Catfish?
And I said, no, Bob Dylan did.
And he said well, I'm an umpireand I'm part of the New York
Yankees fantasy camp in FortLauderdale.
And he knew, he heard I'm apretty well-known Yankees fan
amongst my fans.
And he said well, I'd like toinvite you to the fantasy camp

(19:45):
and come watch the games.
And I said, oh, I'd love to, onthe condition that my father
can come with me, because he's ahuge Yankees fan.
He grew up watching them duringtheir heydays in the 50s and
60s.
It's no problem.
So we go and we get to thestadium in Fort Lauderdale.
It's no problem.
So we go and we get to thestadium in Fort Lauderdale.

(20:07):
It's not impressed by much, butwe get to the front of the
stadium and Don Larson is beingdriven in a golf cart, the man
who threw the perfect game inthe 1956 World Series against
the Dodgers Drives by and mydad's like who?
I said yeah, Don Larson.
And then Tony Kubek walks up tome and he comes up to me and he

(20:31):
blows my dad off and he goeshey kid, I heard you're a
musician.
My son's a musician in Appleton, Wisconsin.
I'm Tony Kubek, Nice to meetyou.
And I shook his hand and my dadwas like Wisconsin story with

(20:54):
musicians, there's so many greatmusicians out of Wisconsin.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
Well, it's the winter .
You got nothing better to dothan to practice do you know,
reverend Raven, I do, of courseoh my god he's a good fella man.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
What a great slide player.
Yeah, he's a good dude too, jimliben.
I saw uh jim liben playing inuh in milwaukee when I lived in
chicago.
I drove all the way tomilwaukee to see jim liben play.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yeah uh, great harmonica player yeah, he's an
old buddy of mine as well.
I've played with him many, manytimes.
Do you know Jimmy Vagley andthe Jimmys, the Jimmys, yeah
yeah, yeah, yeah, they're fromthe Madison area, but I've
played with Jimmy every now andagain as well.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
Yeah yeah.
I played at a club in Madisonwith Junior Wells and Sandra
Hall.
It was a tavern.
It'll come to me Probably theHarmony Bar, the Harmony Bar and
Grill.
Harmony Bar and Grill oh my God, what a great place.
For a Florida guy, it was quiterefreshing to be in one of

(21:57):
those real Midwestern taverns.
You had the tavern on one sideand then the concert hall was.
The hall was next door, rightnext door to the bar, and it was
.
What a cool place, what acharming little joint.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yes, so, with your own band, we did a gig together
out there in beautiful Morro Bay, and that's what I was
discussing with you the tourvehicle which I ended up getting
, a Ford Transit as a matter offact Did you.
Yeah, I ended up gettingbecause we needed a bigger one
because of the Oregon, but Iended up getting a Transit 250,

(22:36):
medium height, medium length.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
We got a cargo one Did that lead you?

Speaker 1 (22:39):
astray.
No, it was awesome.
It's been great.
It's been great.
So how many?
I mean you've been doing this along time and we know it.
I mean it's down and dirty whenwe're on the road.
I love it, but you know it's alot of work.
So how many days of the yearare you out doing your thing and
for how many years straighthave you been doing it?
Do you do it consistently formany, many years?

(23:01):
Or, like certain years, you'relike oh, I'm going to do X
amount and next year I'm notgoing to do so much, I'm going
to keep it local.
Or are you on the roadconsistently throughout the
years?

Speaker 2 (23:09):
Consistently Well, I took, I take whatever they could
give me and the.
But I went through five.
Really I'm not going to say badagents, but I had.
I went through five agenciesbefore I got to one that could
get me out further and could getme out working more often, and
that was seven years ago withIntrepid Artists, right.

(23:33):
But you know, I would have, Iwas willing to work whenever,
whatever you know, whenever they, whenever the opportunity arose
.
But you know, some smaller,sometimes the smaller agencies
don't have the ability to getyou out as far or as often.
So I mean, in the beginning itwas like a hundred, 125 days
maybe.
Right now it's more like it'sbetween 150 and 200.

(23:57):
We just did a and that's beenlike that for the last seven
years.
And in fact now with the billthing, it's even great with,
with, with the blood brothers.
It got really crazy when mikeand I put the blood brothers
together because we had theblood brothers project and our
own bands, right.
So we were pretty busy.
And then you throw bill intothe mix and it's even crazier.

(24:22):
We just did a six-week runzier.
We just did a six-week run,six-week run, and in the middle
of it the drummer and I were inthe Bill project.
We had to fly Also with theBlood Brothers.
We had to spend the first week.
We drove across to Vegas.
It started in Mississippi andworked our way to Vegas.

(24:43):
Then we had to jump on a planethe drummer and I to jump on a
plane, fly to Clearwater andplay with the Blood Brothers in
Florida, had a day off or twooff, then fly back, meet up with
the bass player in Sacramento,continue the run all throughout
the Pacific Northwest, allacross, way across to Texas, and

(25:07):
my bass player had to drop meand the drummer off in Austin so
that we could do the projectwith Bill.
We did two nights at theParamount Theater in Austin.
Bass player took the van, droveto Atlanta, we flew out to
Atlanta, met up with him andfinished out the run.
We did this all in six weeks,yes, and that's the story of my
life.
But the right now right, but um, I can't complain.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
Well, let's let's talk a little bit about cause I,
I, I think there's there's onething.
If there's one thing about themusic industry of though there
are many things that that theaverage person just doesn't
understand, is how hard it is toget a booking agent and how
hard it is to get them to bookbecause they've just assume I
mean I don't know if you'veexperienced this, but I'm sure

(25:51):
you have is that you get peopleonline going.
How come you're not playinghere, like like we're making a
conscious decision to ignorecertain communities?
It's like listen, of course wewe've got to figure out how to
get a gig someplace wherethey're going to, where the deal
is that we can actually makeenough money to make it
worthwhile and then route it intime where it coincides with all

(26:12):
these other places.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
If you don't know, you don't know.
Yeah, If you don't know, youdon't know.
I get that all the time.
But yeah, it's hard and it usedto.
In the beginning it was reallyhard.
They would tell you, like theagencies would tell you well,
you need a record deal, right,right.
And then the labels say, well,you need an agency, exactly.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
And then they would say and then, on top of that,
they'd say we need airplay.
Well, how do I get airplay?
Well, you need to.
You know, you need to beplaying in the area.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
It's like you just had to find an agent.
Like these kids now they ask mefor advice sometimes and
they're like should I sign withthis agency?
And then they're like how oldare you?
I said I'm 21.
Yeah, I don't even know who theagency is.

(27:05):
They could be a bunch of crooksfor all I know.
But you need to get your footin the door, right?
So just take a chance.
If the guy turns out to be acrook, you know I mean.
But you, what are you supposedto do?
You can't.
You can't pass up on anopportunity to get signed with
an agent if you're young, right,it's just, it's very hard.

(27:26):
And there I know a lot of greatartists that don't have
agencies, and it breaks my heart.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah Well, it took me until I was in my 50s to get an
agent.
I mean, in Europe I always hadan agent going back 25 years.
But that's different.
Over there.
There's more of aninfrastructure and when you're
signed to a label over there,they set you up at least back in
the day.
They'd set you up with anagency because that's how they
knew they were going to maketheir money.

(27:53):
When I got my first, I mean I'dput out all kinds of records on
my own, but my first deal waswith that Steve Vai label back
in like 2001.
And I thought, fuck, this isgreat.
Here we go.
I'm on this thing.
I'm getting write-ups on allthese magazines.
I'm going to get a bookingagent now and I could not get
arrested.
They're like no, no, you needto be, you know, you need to
prove X, y and Z.
I'm like what do you meanExactly?

Speaker 2 (28:13):
It's all about whether you can make money for
them Exactly.
It's not personal, right, butthey got to feel like they can
make money off you.
It took me years to get withIntrepid and I thought I had
come close a couple of times andRick Booth, the, the, the, the,

(28:34):
the head of of Intrepid, theowner of Intrepid, he said, man,
I just didn't know whether Icould sell you.
You were in Florida, you know,you're way the hell down South,
and I, I didn't, wasn't sure ifI could sell you.
And it took a long time to getin, get back and get in.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
His radar, man, it just it's well plus, it's a
tough racket man, the thingthat's.
You know, when people talkabout all the music industry
isn't what it used to be.
But on the same token, by thesame token, because of the
internet and because of socialmedia, I mean that's the whole
reason why we're able to do.

(29:10):
What we're able to do isbecause, luckily, I've been able
to get a toehold on variousdifferent you know, you know on
Instagram and Facebook, and yada, yada, yada, uh, where you but?
But but by the same, it's likeI just the other day, you know,
we've got a new agent now whowas actually my original agent,
but he went on to another agencyand so we ended up going with
him.
I love my old guy, he was great, but he was a smaller agencies

(29:34):
or a smaller guy, so he hewasn't getting the looks at some
of the, you know, certainly notat the festivals and so on, and
so forth, so we're with thisguy who's with.
You know we're with WME now,which is, you know, a big agency
, uh, but you know you get,you'll get the email where it's
just like hey, uh, we got lowticket sales here here, here and

(29:56):
here and here and I'm like,okay, well, that means I have to
do all the promoting becausethe club's not going to do it.
Exactly.
We interrupt this regularlyscheduled gristle-infested
conversation to give a specialshout out to our friends at
Fishman Transducers, makers ofthe Greg Koch Signature Fluence
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Can you dig that?

Speaker 2 (30:14):
And our friends at Wildwood Guitars of Louisville,
colorado bringing the heat inthe shadow of the Rocky
Mountains.
I like what you touched onabout how you've used social

(30:43):
media and you've used thesemediums to promote yourself,
because you do that really well.
I mean those videos you do withyour son, they really reach
people and it gets me tothinking.
I said, you know well, it's notlike it used to be, but who
knows whether I would have beenlooked at back then?
Would a label have looked at meback then?
Who knows Right?

(31:04):
So I don't know how thebusiness would have taken me.
I was a side man throughout the90s and the early 2000s man
throughout the 90s and the early2000s.
So I just spent my time justworking for front man, you know
Right, but I didn't have a.

(31:29):
I think I'm a lot better of aplayer now than I was back then
and I don't know if anybodywould have signed me back then.
So I don't know if the good olddays would have been so great
for me back then.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
Yeah, I know that they weren't for me.
I mean, I did other things then.
But you know, as a result ofthe way things are now, you know
, we know that we can go into aplace and you know we can charge
a decent amount of money and acertain amount of people are
going to show up and and, andthe next time we come through,
more people show up.
And then the next time we comethrough, more people show up.
Um, and then you know, in themerch game, you know it's like

(32:03):
when you realize like, well, youhave to have various different
things to sell to make itworthwhile, because people
aren't buying music the way thatthey.
You know they're, they're buyingyour brand.
I mean, I hate to use that word, but they're buying you.
Let's put it that way.
They want to come and they wantto support you.
They enjoy seeing the band live, uh, and of course, they listen

(32:24):
to stuff online.
They like seeing the videosonline.
But if their way to support islike they might not have a CD
player anymore, uh, there's alot of people who have vinyl now
or they enjoy the reemergenceof vinyl, so they'll buy vinyl,
but a lot of times they justwant to buy a t-shirt.
They want to buy whateverExactly, they'll buy whatever
you have, basically.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
Do you know?
Are you familiar with JohnnyRawls?
I know who he is, soul bluessinger, guitar player, played
with Sam, with sam cook back inthe day, played guitar for sam
cook.
But he, he's like, uh, he's oneof my favorite people and he's
he's a hustler.
He has his own, he doesn't havea label, he makes his own

(33:09):
records and he hustles.
He doesn't have a band per se,he just has people locked up in
different regions.
And I got to play at the FargoBlues Festival the year we were
in lockdown.
It was one of the few festivalsthat were operating during
COVID and Johnny was there andhe walked up to me and goes hey,

(33:31):
man, I got to show yousomething, man, I got to tip you
to this thing.
Man, look, flash drives.
Oh yeah, flash drives, johnny.
What are you talking aboutflash drives?
He goes man, ain't nobody gotCD players in their cars, no
more, right?
So I put five of my CDs Ihaven't put out in a while, put

(33:52):
them on a flash drive.
I sell it for $20.
I sold 50 of them today.
So he's the embodiment of thatfamous quote by Charles Darwin
it's not the smartest of thespecies, nor the strongest, it's
the one that can adapt Right,exactly, and that's what we're

(34:15):
doing, exactly.
And I'm not going to bitchabout the music business today
because those people wouldn'thave given me a second look 30
years ago Exactly.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
I'm with you 1,000%, yeah, and I enjoy it all.
I mean, I do.
I love all the stuff I get todo.
And you know what I've beenkind of using this viewpoint
lately.
It's like if you're more aboutthe music and just enjoying the

(34:47):
music for what it is and notusing it as a means to an end, I
think that's where you know alot of people could be
extraordinarily talented and soon and so forth and they they
get a level of success and thenthey're a slave to that means to
an end, instead of justenjoying it for what it is, it
becomes, you know, it becomesthis, this purely, you know,

(35:08):
profit motivated thing.
I mean, we all got to makemoney and we all want to have
opportunities where we can dothings to uh, excel in that
regard.
But I think the happiest peoplein the that are pleased with
whatever opportunities.
They just love the music in away that, as long as you're
doing that and have a way to doit, uh, you're content.

(35:29):
You know what I mean?
It's not you're bitter about oh, why can't this and this and
this happen?
You're like, yeah, but this andthis and this is happening, I
get to.
I get to frickin play and do mything.

Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yeah, and I agree, I I was thinking, I was thinking
about this.
Oh, when you told me to do this, I just kept thinking I wonder
what he's going to ask me, and Ihope there's an opportunity for
me to say a couple of things.
But it's funny, you're leadingme into a great thought that I
just had.
So like when I, when I started,I was always I was a diehard

(36:10):
blues guy and then when I movedto Chicago, I I in the nineties,
I started to discover a bunchof artists that were going
outside the box of the blues, alot of gunslingers like Chico
Banks and Rico McFarlane,amazing guitar player out of
Chicago.
They were pushing the envelopeand that's when things started

(36:30):
to realize well, there's more toit than just the blues, there's
other things you can, and Ilearned a lot about music
different music later on in life.
And I was listening to a DerekTrucks interview with Rick Beato
a few months ago and he wastalking about when he joined the

(36:51):
brothers, that they got himinto some real deep Coltrane
stuff, and he cited the Live atBirdland album with Elvin Jones
and McCoy Tyner.
And you know I was familiarwith the Giant Steps record and
everything, but this wassomething I'd never heard.

(37:11):
And then about a month ago Ilistened to it and that song,
afro Blue, comes on the firsttrack and it's like man, this
makes total sense why the AllmanBrothers are the Allman
Brothers.
These guys were like the BlackAllman Brothers, right.
I mean, these guys were justit's like rock and roll.
It's like these guys were justwigging out and I couldn't stop

(37:32):
listening to that album, justwigging out, and I couldn't stop
listening to that album.
And then during this six weekrun, I played the album for the
guys in the band and the drummermy drummer was familiar with
the album but he hadn't heard itin a while and then the bass
player had never heard it and wecouldn't stop listening to the
record during the tour.
And then we started workingAfro Blue into the into the into

(37:55):
the.
Well, in the beginning we weredoing it at soundcheck Because
we were practicing to see if wecould pull it off and it was fun
, but we weren't quite ready.
Then the next time we had asoundcheck we did it again and
then we brought the song andworked it into our set and we
just played it a couple days agoand it was as good as we've

(38:16):
ever done it.
It was one of the.
It made me so happy to have beenable to pull it off To look
back and to see how I progressed.
I mean, you know, I was neverthe best guitar player in in in

(38:37):
high school.
There were guys that could play, uh, the Hotel California solo,
note for note, and I couldbarely get through that and and
and.
But I just had this love forthe music that that wouldn't let
me go and I had to keep doingit and keep doing it.
And it's all about the music.
For me To be able to have gonefrom just playing the blues, to

(39:05):
be able to do a Coltrane songwith a group of friends and just
be locked in in that zone withthem.
There's nothing like it, youknow, absolutely there really
nothing like it.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
You know, Absolutely.
There really isn't Absolutely.
Music is glorious, that's thebottom line.
It is, and there's nothingbetter than being in the moment
and just going for it.
It's the most glorious thing.
And you know, I don't know ifyou get a lot of people that are
your age or people you grew upwith or something, and they'll

(39:38):
say something to the effect ofman, doesn't it get old?
The traveling, and you're likeI always just say here's the
thing I go.
You know we're not to the levelwhere we got to worry about a
crew and a road manager and abus and all the different

(40:01):
logistics.
It's a couple of dudes and avehicle.
The tour is put together insuch a way where the drives
aren't horrible so we're able tostop where we want to stop.
We stay where we want to stay.
Sometimes we don't book hotelsuntil a lot of times the day of
hey, you guys want to stay heretonight, or you want to go down
the road.
You know where.
Do you want to eat?

(40:22):
It's, it's all.
Hey, we're going to be within Xamount of this particular
landmark.
Do you guys want to go andcheck that out?
And we do it.
And when we get to the gig youknow people want are only coming
to see us.
It's not like oh look, there'sa band here, they're going to
see us.
They.
You know, I hang out, I do themerch table.
I hang out with people beforewe play, I hang out with people

(40:43):
after we play.
You get to meet all these coolpeople from all over the place
and then you're done.
We start early, like seven,eight o'clock at night.
By midnight you're in yourhotel room chilling like a
villain.
I'm traveling with my kid.
It's like what do you mean?

Speaker 2 (41:00):
This is awesome and we don't have and let me tell
you, I have a playing with BillMurray.
I have a total, I have totalrespect for that dude, because
that dude, he's trying to belike a regular guy in a world
that doesn't see him that way.
Right, and he gets hounded, hegets stalked, I believe it, and

(41:25):
we don't have that issue.
We get to be rock stars for themoment, you know, the moment
that we're playing, and thenwhen the gig's over, we can just
go chill out and be cool.
You know, we can deflate backinto our normal size and shape.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
Well, I don't know about you, but I also think that
, because of social media and,you know, just doing kind of
videos where you're just beingyourself, that it's kind of
taken away the weird us and themmentality.
They feel like you're justtheir friend and then, when
you're just the same way you are, as you, as you appear to be,

(42:03):
you know what I mean they'relike it's like you're just
friends with people instead ofthis weird lording over them as
an other.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (42:11):
Yeah, I like when people ask me how my mom's doing
, cause my mom has a a verysimilar fan base to me.
I think she might have agreater fan base.
I have people asking how mymom's doing and and and.
They're like, oh, how's the dog?
Cause Ella's always makingappearances on my, on my page,
and and.

(42:31):
Uh, it feels good to be, yeah,to to be in tune with the fans,
like we, we, we gotta it withthe fans.
It's a great thing.
The level we're at, I mean wethrive to make.
We want to make more money, ofcourse, we want to keep doing

(42:52):
this, but I like the intimacythat we have with our audiences.
The connection we have with ouraudience is very different.
The connection we have with ouraudience is very different from
, say, somebody like, maybeBeyonce?
Right, no doubt, and we get tolive this life where we can play
, we can go from playing thesmall rooms to playing the big

(43:16):
halls.
Right, we're not just containedto being a bar band.
We, we are.
It's taken us to so manydifferent stages, right, you,
especially man, I mean, you getto share, share stages with joe
bonamassa and and and les pauland and they just, it's just,

(43:38):
we're just very charmed.
I know that'd be probablyboring the shit out of me.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
No, no, no, I'm I'm down with it A hundred percent.
Well, just to your point aboutplaying the John Coltrane tune
the other day, I mean we're at alevel where it's like hey,
let's try that tonight.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
And we can do it because you're not going to hits
right, right.
I, yeah, I saw clapton.
I saw clapton on that, uh, onthe from the cradle tour, the
blues rep, the blues tour, anduh, I knew what I was getting
into and it was awesome and Iand I remember people bitching
that he didn't do leila rightand and he didn't do wonderful
tonight and he didn't dosunshine of your love, and I'm
like yeah, we don't have thatproblem, do we?

Speaker 1 (44:24):
yeah, there's a certain.
You know what you trade for.
That iconic status is thefreedom to do whatever the hell
you want to do.
Basically yeah, I wouldn'ttrade my life for anybody else.
I'm cool with it.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
Plus, you know, you got Dylan going on tour with you
.
You got your kid going on tourwith you.
I found out seven years agothat I had a daughter that I
didn't know.
Yeah, I remember that.
So those kind of things justadd to the fun of life.
And, yeah, I love my life.

(45:06):
It's not always easy, man.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
And for yourself.
I'm sure you foresee doing it,as long as you can do it.

Speaker 2 (45:14):
Yeah, well, I don't think we have a retirement plan.
Well, that's a fact.
That's a fact, that's a fact.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
I was just up with some people yesterday that were
talking about retirement.
I'm like what is this?
You're talking about thisretirement.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
I mean, I guess our plan would be to cut down, just
cut down just a little bit as weget older, maybe just cut down
the touring a little bit, butstill have to make enough money
to, like Delbert McClinton does.
He already did.
As he got older, he graduallycut down his tour schedule now.

(45:55):
He's just fully retired now andhe's 85 years old bless him.
But I do want to say that thatI, we are human, and when you've
been on the road for six weeksstraight, you get home and then
you don't have a moment's peace.
You tend to to uh lose it everyonce in a while.
I, I had an argument with mywife and uh, I, I said this to

(46:18):
her.
I said I, I, I said, know, Igive a left nut for one day off,
one day off.
I did say that a couple of daysago, I did confess.
I do confess that I did saythat.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
Yeah, there is no day off.
That's what people don'tunderstand.
It's like you know, you get offthe road and then you got to
deal with all the stuff, thehoney-do list, exactly, exactly,
exactly.
But then you know, by the sametokens, like all these other
people, including our, you know,not to mention the fact, our
spouses and so on and so forth.
It's like they all have to doshit they don't like doing.

(46:53):
We do stuff that we want to doNinety nine percent of the time.
That's true.
That's true 99% of the time.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
That's true, that's true.
And sometimes they're luckyenough to come along for the
ride with us.
And right now my wife she'sdoing dirty work.
Right now she's doing my EPKfor a European tour for next
year.
Ah yeah, see, europe is astruggle for me.

(47:21):
You're talking about how youdid really well in Europe, but
in the States you were kind ofback in the early days.
It's kind of the reverse for menow.
Europe has always been astruggle for me, so she's
helping me get it together and,you know, maybe I'll break
through one of the one of thesedays.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
Well, you know, I, what I learned about the Europe
thing years ago was that, um,you know, I've had the same guy
booking us in in Germany andaround area.
Um, of course it's verypolitical over there as well.
You know, it's like, right, myguy's really good at booking
certain regions, but then hebutts heads against these agents

(48:03):
in the Netherlands.
So, as a result, we barely everplay in the Netherlands.
Uh, france was off limits.
Oh, now we got a guy in France.
It's going to book it.
Now we've got a guy in Italythat's going to, and we've had
the same guy in Italy for many,many years.
So it's, it's a political thing.
And then we finally got a guyin the UK, a separate guy.
And so, you know, at one pointyou're wanting to like God, I'm

(48:27):
playing these same places.
I've been playing for 20 years.
And then you realize you'relucky to be playing those places
, Right, you know what I mean.
So, what I like about goingover there, it's the same thing

(48:48):
as it is here.
It's like you show up and playat places where you know one
night it's a, you know it's a300 seat place.
The next night you're playingat a place that sits 75 people.
You know Um, but you can chargeus an amount that people want
to come and see you do yourthing.
They're showing up to see you,their fans, they're going to buy
your stuff and um and then onto the next place.
But it's done.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
It's down and dirty, but it's a similar thing where
are your strong uh regions in ineurope you live more germany.
Uh well, we've done.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
We've done okay, everywhere I mean, but but not
like you know, we're not playinglike theaters, we play clubs,
clubs.
You know, every now and againwe'll play a theater, we'll
we'll get on a festival andpeople will come on out, uh, but
for the most part, you knowwe're we're playing clubs and we
play them.
You know, all over Germany, Imean, I've played every nook and

(49:33):
cranny in Germany, let's put itthat way.
Uh, a little bit in Denmarkwe've done.
You know, when I did the Fenderthing we would have like
Fender-sanctioned shows and thenwe'd play.
You know we've done Poland.
And you know, with Fender I'vedone like every nook and cranny
of the East.
You know, from Serbia, croatia,hungary, romania, I've done

(50:00):
Greece, all over Italy, francehas been a little weird.
I mean, I've done a few thingsin Paris.
We'd always do, you know, butthat was more Fender stuff.
But then we finally got anagent to book our stuff down in
the south of France and thatwent fantastic.
But you know, it's one of thosethings where I'm able to.

(50:21):
You know, especially over theyears, I was always able to kind
of do these combination thingswhere we would do gigs with the
band and then we would do somekind of clinic or, you know, um,
uh, sponsored events by eitherFender or whoever it was at the
time.
But now we just go over thereand just play with the band.

(50:42):
But there's a lot of, you know,music colleges will have us
come in and do stuff as well, sothat's a thing that underwrites
it.
There'll be like a guitar eventand that might be the anchor
gig.
We'll put a bunch of stuffaround it, but it's changed.
I mean, it's changed over theyears.
But one of the things that'salways been good for us is is

(51:02):
that, um, you know, klaus, myagent would always say he goes,
you are one of the only guysthat makes money over here that
I tour with, and I went what doyou mean by that?
And he's like well, a guy willcome over and he'll bring name
guys as their, as the rhythmsection, so that they have more
marquee value, but then he hasto pay those guys accordingly,
and so all the revenues for thegig goes towards the expenses of
paying those guys and all theother kinds of stuff, and then

(51:24):
that individual just make moneyon the merch, whereas, you know,
we've always done it in such away where I always bring my boys
and we do it in such a waywhere you know we share
everything.
So I mean I share the merch andall that kind of stuff, but at
the end they're all making adecent amount of dough.
So they're all like hell, yeah,let's go.
So, um, you know it's, it's alot of work.

(51:48):
I mean we, you know we go overthere, you know we might be
there.
If we're there for 30 days, wemight do 32 gigs.
You know what I mean?
Cause there's a couple ofdoubles, yeah and uh.
And so by the time you get homeyou're fried, but you've made
dough Right.
And I haven't done anythinglike that since the Roof Caravan
.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
I did the Roof the Blues Caravan with Roof Records,
oh yeah, and those routes, theitineraries were killer.
Oh, they're brutal, brutal.
The routing was crazy too.
Yeah, well, that's kind of oneof the were killer.
Oh, they're brutal, brutal.
The routing was great.
Work was crazy too.
Yeah, that's kind of one of thethings.

Speaker 1 (52:25):
Right, it's like what it's like I've been many, is
the time where it's like, okay,monday we're in cologne, and
then tuesday we're in dresden,and then on wednesday we're 20
miles from cologne, we're justgoing back and forth.
But you, you know, that's Imean my guy.
It's like he'll book Mondays,tuesdays, wednesdays I mean,

(52:46):
every night is booked, yeah yeah.
So in order to make that happen, there's a lot of zigzagging.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
Yeah, I did Luxembourg once and we had to
leave right after the show anddrive to Frankfurt, stay at a
hotel near the airport and driveto Frankfurt, stay at a hotel
near the airport, sleep a couplehours and then fly from
Frankfurt to Ulm, sweden.
Oh yeah, way the hell up nearthe North Pole there.
Yeah, we've done some crazyshit with that man.

(53:13):
We live to tell the tale.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
Well, what's funny about it?
I don't know about you, but Iquit partying years ago and I
think I could never do what I doif I was partying.
There'd be no way.
No.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
I stopped partying after COVID.
Before COVID I was feeling likeI was never a.
I wasn't exactly CharlesBukowski or anything, but I was.
Sometimes I'd have a little bitof a drink.
You know, sometimes I have acouple of beers and if I was, if

(53:47):
it was a long run I would, I'dhave a beer or two, and then I'd
get near the end of a run andwe'd have a day off and I'd have
to hit the harder stuff and itjust added up.
It started building up and Iwas always a social drinker.
I was never, you know, I neverdidn't drink every day, but and
I only drank when I played.
But we were working 200 days ayear for a while and it started

(54:09):
to add up.
And then I got COVID.
So when we went on lockdown, Islowed down.
I was home a lot and I didn'tdrink that much.
So I started to feel better.
And then I got COVID On 2021.
And after quarantine I had myfirst drink.
I had a double tequila with afriend of mine.
I couldn't get out of bed for aweek.

(54:29):
Oh, no shit, made me into alightweight and so I started
weaning off it.
Now I've kind of lost the tastefor drink.
I kind of don't drink muchanymore.
I might have a drink every nowand then but I couldn't.
I think being on the road withZito, who's been sober for 20
years, right, and that dude'sgot so much energy.

(54:51):
And we were doing with theBlood Brothers we were doing
seven nights in a row With a dayoff, and I'm in my 50s man.
I can't do that what I used todo anymore.
I can't drink every day.
I just kind of don't do it, andI feel a lot better.
I started taking better care ofmyself.

(55:14):
I took up boxing.
I got back into boxing and Itook up Kung Fu.
In fact, I got a Kung Fu classafter this.
I used it on Zito a couple oftimes too, on the road.
I won't talk about that.

Speaker 1 (55:28):
You guys have a humorous dynamic between the two
of you.
It's glorious.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
He's the brother I never wanted.
I mean the brother I've alwayswanted.
He is my brother.
He is truly the brother I neverhad, because he gets away with
shit that only a sibling wouldallow.
If we were friends I would notbe friends with him, but he's
wonderful to me and he always.

(55:54):
You know, there's nothing hehasn't accomplished since he's
gotten sober Right and it's ajoy to be a part of these
adventures with him.
I wouldn't be with Bill if itwasn't for him.
I wouldn't have had the BluesMusic Awards if his label hadn't
picked me up Right and hadn'tbelieved in me.
So you know he's my brother,man, yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
You guys sing great together too.
I mean, it sounds glorious.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
We got good chemistry .
There's something about when weget together.
If we ever got to the ZZ Toptype of level, we'd probably
have our own buses, like theyhad.
I think Dusty and Billy hadtheir own buses We'd probably
have our own buses when we geton stage, though it's.
It's uh, the guitars seem to toto to mesh together really well

(56:48):
, and sort of the voices, andwe're going in the studio next
week to do another bloodbrothers album.
I can't wait.
We just messed around with aninstrumental during during, uh,
one of our sound checks withBilly and uh, yeah, I'm really
looking forward to it.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
Awesome, so you're headed to Minneapolis next.
Right, I am Minneapolis uh withBill.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
Yeah, we got Minneapolis, uh, des Moines and
St Louis, and then we stay in StLouis for for a week to record
the blood brothers album.
We're hoping to get Bill onthat, maybe get him on a track
or something.
Oh, that'd be cool.
Yeah, I think he deserves it.
He deserves to be on the album.
Let me tell you somethingspeaking of vans.

(57:30):
I had to get a new van.
The rear end on my old van justwas shot and it was going to
cost nine grand to fix, oh Jesus.
And we did two nights in SanFrancisco with Bill and I made
enough money to put a downpayment on a new van.
Thank you, uncle Bill.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
You know, I bet guys like Bill Murray are so sick and
tired of people quoting variousdifferent quotes.
But just the other day, when Iwas just today, as I was walking
out here, I was like chicks digme, because I seldom wear
underwear.
When I do, it's usuallysomething unusual.
I use that one.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
I use that one all the time.
Yeah, no, he doesn't.
He doesn't want to be definedby those days.
Um, like he lives for themoment, you know, and he has
things in his life that he wantsto do and you know he's taking
on more serious roles these days, but he also, you know, when

(58:30):
he's in musician mode, hedoesn't want to, he don't want
to hear about that.
He doesn't want to hear aboutthat boom shakalaka, shakalaka,
boom shakalaka.
Or he doesn't want to hearthose quotes boom shakalaka,
shakalaka, boom shakalaka.
Or or, uh, mass, he doesn'twant to be.
You know, he don't want to hearthose quotes, although he's
very cool about at the meet andgreets.
We do meet and greets andpeople show up with those quotes
and then he, he kind of laughsit off and right and stuff.

(58:51):
But I don't think he likesbeing defined by those days
anymore.
He's, he's just, uh, he's aninspiration man, man At 75, the
energy that he has, he's doingthings on his own terms.
He doesn't have a manager, whichis amazing.
You've got to really knowsomebody in his circle to get a

(59:16):
hold of him.
Like screenwriters, directors,they can't get a hold of them
unless you got to work hard tofind them.
That's wild and that's amazingto me because it inspired a song
.
I wrote a song about it becausehe's and it's hopefully Zito

(59:38):
will like it but it's about howhe busted his ass doing what he
had to do until he got to apoint where he could do what he
wants to do now.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
Right, yeah yeah, yeah, and I think that's.

Speaker 2 (59:49):
I think it's amazing.
We played in New York.
We did two nights in New Yorkand it coincided with the
Saturday Night Live anniversaryweekend.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
So we were like, how are wegoing to pull this off?
So we did the Capitol Theaterin Port Chester and that was the
same night that he had to go toRadio City and sing at that

(01:00:11):
music event on the Friday.
He did that, got on a shuttle,showed up 10 minutes before the
gig, made it on time for the gig.
The next day we played at SonyHall in Midtown Manhattan.
He decides he wants to go seehis son in Connecticut.
His son is an assistantbasketball coach at UConn.

(01:00:31):
So he goes up to Connecticutthe day of the show, catches a 2
o'clock game against whoevergets on the train from
Connecticut, gets into the city,makes it in time for the meet
and greet around 6 o'clock,leaves the meet and greet, goes
to 30 Rock to do pre-productionfor the Saturday Night Live show

(01:00:53):
on Sunday, zips right back andmakes it in time for the show at
8 o'clock or 8.30.
The man has no.
He's no quit in a man, he'sjust a.
That's awesome Freak of nature.
It's very inspiring.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
I heard I can't remember the details of the
story, but I was one of myfavorite stories Like apparently
someone was in the bathroom,like at the urinal or something,
and all of a sudden BillMurray's peeing right next to
him.
The guy looks up and he seesBill Murray and Bill just looks
at him and goes no one's goingto believe you.
And then San Francisco.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
We played at the Great American Music Hall and
the Grateful Dead played thereon my birthday in 1975.
So that was.
That was an honor in itself.
We're downstairs in the greenroom, Bill walks up to me.
He goes, Albert, I want you tomeet a friend of mine, this is
Don Novello, and I go.
And I look at him and go FatherGuido Sarducci, Are you kidding

(01:01:57):
me?
He goes.
Yes, my son.
And we.
Are you kidding me?
He goes?
Yes, my son.
And we spoke for an hour.
We talked about Italy for anhour.
It's just been crazy, man, it'sbeen wild Awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
Well, listen, thanks for taking some time out of your
busy schedule to converse.
It's been glorious, greatcatching up with you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Thank you for reaching out to me.
I so respect you so much, on somany levels Likewise my friend
as a musician and as a person, Ilove your family.
Man.
I just think the world of you.
It meant a lot to me, youreaching out to me yesterday.
I was having a rough dayyesterday and you just freaking
made my day.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
Oh well, thank you so much.
I'm so glad you were availableto do it.
It's been a pleasure catchingup and hopefully we'll cross
paths again one of these days.
I can't wait.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
Grizzle Meister.
All right, say hello to Zitofor me I will.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
I love you brother.
Likewise, travel safe.
Thanks, man, see you laterLater.
Well, thanks for tuning in,ladies and gentlemen, to another
episode of Chewing the Gristle.
We certainly do appreciate youstopping by.
Make sure you tell your friendsall about us, I think they

(01:03:10):
might enjoy themselves.
So thanks again for tuning inand we'll see you next time.