Jeff Kollman

Ever wondered what it feels like to tour the world with some of the biggest names in music? Join us as we catch up with the incomparable Jeff Kollman, who brings his electrifying stories from the road and insights into his latest record. From working with Alan Parsons and the Bombastic Meatbats to his own band, Cosmosquad, Jeff's journey through the musical landscape is nothing short of extraordinary. Plus, we dive into his regular performances in Japan and his daughter's new adventures studying in Tokyo, highlighting how personal life and global travels intertwine.

Remember the magic of vinyl records? We do too! This episode transports you back to the nostalgic realm of rich, immersive soundscapes and the unique joy of holding a tangible album cover. We explore the distinctive experience vinyl offers compared to the fragmented world of digital music, and share laughs about the evolution of record covers' secondary uses over the years. Whether you're a vinyl veteran or a curious newcomer, our conversation reveals why this format continues to captivate music lovers.

But that's not all! Get ready for some hilarious and insightful tales from Chad Smith of the Red Hot Chili Peppers. We chat about the dynamics of putting on shows, the camaraderie among musicians, and the art of high-volume guitar. From Midwest tours to unforgettable gigs in Los Angeles, this episode brims with personal stories, gear discussions, and the sheer passion for live music that keeps us all coming back for more. Don't miss out on this jam-packed session of musical wisdom and industry anecdotes!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Lo and behold, ladies and gentlemen, season five of
Chewing the Gristle is upon us.
It's been a little while, folks, but it's going to be worth the
wait.
We're going to be featuring alot of convivial conversations
with various musical potentates,most of which you've heard of.
Some are going to be some newdiscoveries.
That's why I'm here to bringforth the chewable gristle

(00:29):
matter to you via theinformation superhighway,
brought to you, of course, byour friends at Wildwood Guitars
in beautiful Louisville,colorado, and our friends at
Fishman Transducers of beautifulAndover, massachusetts.
Both I've had greatlongstanding relationships with,
and continue to do so, andwe're very grateful for their
continued support in thisendeavor of giving you the

(00:51):
highest quality and chewablegristle possible.
Now, without any further ado,folks, let's get down and dirty
with some Chewing the GristleSeason 5.
Buckle up, ladies and gentlemen,gentlemen, boys and girls, this
week we have the return of JeffColeman.
He's got a brand new record out.
You've seen and heard him withAlan Parsons.

(01:12):
He's been with the BombasticMeatbats, he's been with Glenn
Hughes.
He's got his own band, theCosmo Squad.
He's an extraordinary musicianand a cool cat.
This week, ladies and gentlemen, we got Jeff Coleman.
Come on y'all Recording inprogress.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Oh boy how do I see you, whoa?

Speaker 1 (01:36):
You gotta press that doggone thing.
I'm a bob.
You gotta press that doggonething.
What's going on, Jeff Wright?
To press that doggone thing.
What's going on, Jeff Wright?
Ladies and gentlemen, boys andgirls, once again we gather
around the gristle fire for alittle chewing that gristle.
We have the mighty Jeff Colemanreturning to our podcast.

(01:56):
He's got a brand new fantasticrecord out.
He's globin' trobbin' aroundthe world.
Globin' trobbin', that soundsGerman.
Globentrauben around the world.
Globentrauben, that soundsGerman.
He's Globentrauben around theworld, rocking people's brains.
He's playing with Alan Parsons.
He's doing his own thing.
He goes to Japan and God onlyknows what he does there.
I think it's forbidden, but Iembrace it.

(02:18):
Jeff, how the hell are you?

Speaker 2 (02:20):
I'm good, you know you make me laugh and I just get
a recall, but it's going to befun.
It's not like my stepdad, damnit.
You know that's a funny guy.
It's kind of early out therethough, and 9 am, I got you know
, is my little world out here.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
I love lines.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
So he's got his lair out in california, a nice place
to get away from the the family.
But you know um I bring them tosometimes.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah that's because you're loving.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
I got her off to college yesterday.
Uh in tokyo oh you're so.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
You decided to do that, so she's going to school
in tokyo.
This will be her sophomore year.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
We just had to get get her an apartment.
She's pretty close to ShibuyaCrossing, the five-point
crossing, Wild.
Close enough but just farenough Like a 10-minute bike
ride.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
You've been going there every year to do a pretty
consistent gig over there, right?

Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, I do my own tours and also Cosmo Squad, but
then I play with this IkejiIzawa the Japanese know him as
H-On, and Tony Franklin has doneit.
Doug Rappaport on second guitar.
Yeah, doug Rappaport, we madeit together.
You know, originally it wasToshi Inagi, it was his gig.
Then they brought me on.

(03:39):
I was like the Scotty Pippen,he was Michael Jordan, and then
they replaced him with me.
I was like what happened?
Then?
They hired a Japanese guy fromJapan who wasn't as good Not
that one's better than another,but I thought we made a great
team.
And then, a couple years later,doug Rappaport came in the fold
, which is fantastic.

(04:00):
He's a beast.
He's a beast of the night andToshi comes back and forth
sometimes, but it's never when Ican do it.
You know, basically it's Dougand I, but during COVID we
didn't have visas to be overthere, so they brought in Toshi.
So you never know what theJapanese rock stars think.
You know this business isfickle, but I love doing it

(04:21):
because it's always in the timeof the year when nothing's going
on.
You know, in the US meaninglike Christmas and Thanksgiving,
people like to stay home.
They don't tour so much then.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yes, Well, let's talk about your new fabulous record.
I was listening to it yesterday.
As usual, just a glorious setof tones and tunes and
performances, Doggone it.
You know I love what you'vedone.
I, you know there was all kindsof different high points out of
it.
It's pretty diverse.
There's some glorious things onthere.

(04:52):
The song with Jimmy Johnson,it's very holds worth asking.
That is just magnificentspecimen.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yeah, you know?
Uh, I'm not afraid to show myinfluences.
Try not to be too derivative.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
No, no, no, it's a nod to, but not a leg humping.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, you know, man, I was thinking about Jimmy
Johnson when I wrote it becauseobviously holds worth of that
connection, and I had anotherplayer play on the track and he
didn't quite hit the mark acouple of times in a row and I
thought, well, why not just sendit to the source, right?
I emailed Jimmy, I met himthrough Mike Landau and Mike

(05:32):
gave me his info and he playedon a song years ago of mine
called Song for James so andJimmy's great.
He's like oh, interestingharmony.
Oh, who's the drummer?
You know this kind of thing.
And he said, yeah, I'd love toplay on it.
I said, you know, I'm hiringyou to be you don't even think
it just you're be jimmy johnson.
And he sent me that take back.
And it's just.
It's, you know, one of thehighlights of the record.

(05:53):
I mean the interplay with shaneand just amazing.
I like it yeah he's great.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
So how long did it take you to put this record
together?

Speaker 2 (06:03):
you know, uh, I spent a lot more time mixing it and
preparing the business for it.
I would say six weeks.
Nice, bing, bang, boom.
Yeah, I mean some tunes likethat Holsworth thing I had
underneath my fingers for awhile you know how that works.
You're like I don't know howthis is going to make a
recording, like you know whatare the drums going to do?

(06:24):
And I had this kind of visionof like Peter Erskine ECM kind
of floaty.
You know it's not a backbeatkind of tune, right, and it's
not like there's a chorus andthere's a hook, it's just it
flows the way it flows, kind ofthing.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
So yeah, and I dig it .
Yeah, it's called 2023 ad outthere, ladies and gentlemen,
right you go, and you either getit from jeff colemancom or you
can download it, but we alwaysprefer, when you purchase, a
hard copy, am I right, or am Iright?
Yeah, and you know what?

(06:59):
We have double vinyl, bro.
Oh you do.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
that is magnificentinyl is key to a
happy lifestyle Three bonustracks, because I realized I
only had three sides of a side,you know, of a double album
Meaning 12 tracks.
It's like 49 minutes, it's likethree sides.
So I need a little more.
So you put some on there forthe kids.
Yeah, you know, you do what youdo.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
You know, what's interesting is that, you know, I
do love vinyl and people arelike oh, bing bang, boom, it's
the same.
Digital is better.
Remember that argument when CDsfirst came out oh, it's so much
better.
And when I was doing thecomparison of the audio on the

(07:44):
same sound system with thedigital, high-res digital files
versus the, the record and therecord is.
I always like to say, and I'vesaid it before this very podcast
, jeffrey, it's like when you'relistening to the digital, it's
like you're looking at atwo-dimensional thing, but when
you listen to vinyl, it's likeyou're amongst it, you're in it.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yeah, I did that with the bonnie rate uh album years
ago.
My next door neighbor audiohi-fi guy at Macintosh this and
that and basically he couldpress one button, have the
levels match in his sound roomand I could really listen to the
difference.
And the difference was whenthey put the vinyl was on, it
was almost like somebody put awarm blanket around me.

(08:18):
I had this beautiful fat soundin the room.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
That was just like gorgeous, you know, yes it's
kind of like I, when I I grew up, my dad went kind of went
through a midlife crisis andinstead of going crazed he just
went out and bought a stereothis is like late 70s and he
bought a bang and olufsen youknow, ultimate hi-fi with the,
the heat sensitivity to turneverything on and off, and a

(08:45):
Tanberg cassette deck and allthis kind of shit and I kind of
inherited it from my parentswere moving that you could take
the um, you could take thestereo, and at that point I
hadn't listened to vinyl in a ina good while and I remember
setting it up and just putting arecord on and it's like, as you
said said, it's almost like aphysical reaction that you have
and I almost got weepy.

(09:06):
I was like oh, my god, there'sthat thing.
Yeah, I didn't know I wasmissing, but it's totally there.
And you, it's just.
You know how we listen to musicback in the day now.
Of course some of it's a littlebit um sentimental, but it
there is.
There's something going onthere without it I mean also.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
you know, I did a podcast with a couple of
gentlemen and one of them thereare no other- podcasts Jeff,
there are no other podcasts.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
What?

Speaker 2 (09:33):
I think his name is Hugh Stein, I forget his name,
but he did all these albumcovers Right.
So he said, within the podcast,he said how much is the
importance of the artwork itself?
And as you know, I know, youknow, and I said, oh my God,
it's everything.
I just sat there and look atlike the cover of the Black
Sabbath, the first album, youknow, and the eerie witch in

(09:56):
there and you know, you just,and you get into all the liner
notes and you're really lookingat the stuff and it's big and
you're holding it and you know,you take it to school and you
show it to friends.
And I mentioned to Hugh, I saidyou know, right away I went
right to Rush All the World's aStage and I said I looked at
that cover shot of thatequipment on stage over and over
.
I mean, I sat there and juststared at it while I listened to

(10:17):
the record.
He goes oh, you shot that fromthe balcony.
I was like, oh, you did thisrecord.
I mentioned Permanent Waves andMoving Pictures.
He goes yeah, and MovingPictures was different.
So it was great that I had noidea the records he had done
back in the day and I justmentioned that one first, but
it's so important, you know, tohave the physical product in

(10:37):
your hand.
You know you have people whomastered and mixed and produced,
and you know.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yeah, just mix and mixed and produced.
And you know, yeah, it justmakes.
And plus, I think these sides,the idea of listening to the
programming of it makes youdigest the music differently.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
You know what I mean, as you know I remember when I
got an ipod and I had like 72000 songs on there, I just kept
digitally, kept switching.
It's almost like it kicks inyour add right exactly, yes, you
don't get to the end.
What is it?
They say seven seconds now isall you get out of people, yeah,
so the vinyl experience forcesyou to listen in order.
You know, dark Side of the Moon, come on, I wouldn't want to be

(11:14):
shuffle mode and flippingaround, right, so it's part of
the listening experience whichis so important to you, know.
It's experience which is soimportant to you, know, it's
like skipping around in a movie.
What's the point?

Speaker 1 (11:25):
Right, exactly so and the thing is, is that kids
these days?
You know we can get into thatwhole oh kids, but you know it's
, it's one of those things whereit's never going to go back per
se.
But as long as there's enoughpeople that savor the difference
, then we're good that savor thedifference then we're good.

Speaker 2 (11:44):
Well, you know, vinyl started out selling CD a few
years back and vinyl's been ageneration no doubt about it,
and it's, although you know.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
The only downside is with it is that they've
genetically engineered the weedso much these days that there's
no seeds and stems.
So they don't have to worryabout the ancillary use for the
record cover, which isseparating those unsavory
particles from the true value ofleafy goodness.
Not that I know anything aboutthat at this juncture in time,
but back in the day, Clean andsober.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
For what Good 25 years.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
It's been 30 years.
This year 30 years.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
What?
I'm still a child, I stilldrink, I like it, but you know,
know it'd be better if I didn't.
But uh, I'm kind of boring youknow what?

Speaker 1 (12:30):
I don't judge, jeff.
I just I don't judge.
I look at my own pathetic selfand just try to reel in my own
primal desires, which nowbasically involve caffeine and
food and and musical instruments.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
Yeah, you know it is fun making a record and I always
enjoy yours and listen to.
Uh.
You know you always have allthese wonderful guests on your
albums and there was a recordyou gave me like six, seven
years ago.
It just blew me away.
Can't think of what it is rightnow, but, uh, I always enjoy
your work oh well, thank you.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
I appreciate that.
I try to mix it up for the kids.
Yep, yep.
I do enjoy making the records.
You know it's.
You know it's one of thosethings, as you know.
I mean, you get to a certainage and you think back I've been
able to play my guitar and makea living for how many years?
And knowing that, as as as the,as you know, as the years go by

(13:23):
, you realize, yeah, you, youkind of think there's a certain
level of meritocracy andcertainly you know you practice
to get to a certain level andyou'd like to think you treat
people well and things, just youknow, happen as a result of
that.
But really it's luck and timing,because the world is not a
meritocracy, it's a bullshit.
And you just think back I getaway with making the music I

(13:47):
want to play and I do variousthings to make a living that you
know allow me to do that, butit's still a big part of how I
make a living.
But anyway, we just get intothe point where it's just so
awesome to just make music youwant to make and not feel that
you have to be compelled toalways redefine the lowest
common denominator.

(14:07):
You know what I mean yeah, doyour thing.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
I mean, you know there's a funny story ed roth
the meat bats, chad and kevinand ed.
And uh, chad was gonna play onthis chick tarja, she was from
the band night.
Wish, we're all sitting aroundin circle and Ed always has the
best one-liners.
And so Chad goes you know what?
I looked up Tarja's genre ofmusic before doing the session

(14:30):
and and Ed goes.
Yeah, what was it?
He goes symphonic metal, edgoes there's an ass for every
saddle Meaning meaning.
Whatever you create, if youstand behind it and you're
honest and you do your thing,people will follow it Exactly
Ridiculous like GWAR.
I think GWAR is ridiculous inevery way, but they stick to it,

(14:53):
they do their thing, they gottheir following Good for them.
Yep, I like to say you don'tneed, but they stick to it, they
do their thing, they got theirfollowing Good for them.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yep, exactly I like to say you don't need a million,
you just need enough.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
And that's all there is to it.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
He's like we cater to our fans.
We know there's enough peopleout there that like Toto and
we're not going to get newpeople and if we do, great.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
But we know how to cater to our audience.
Well, what's funny is, if Iplay a night and there's not a
whole lot of people there andpeople come up like man, it's
like the place was packed, it'slike you were playing for a
stadium.
I say listen, I play the sameway whether I'm playing for 15
or 20 people.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
Your shows only seem well attended.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
Oh no, it's been going good.
I can't complain.
But you know you do have thosenights where it's like hey.
But you know what always makesup for it is, um, is the merch
sales.
It's like whenever you have anight where it's like hey, the
crowd isn't the best.
We made okay money, but thenthe merch table just always
comes through.
Jeff, it always comes through,and I worked that word.
People like I can't believeyou're working your own merch
sales, like listen, I will selltwice as much.

(15:55):
If I'm doing the merch sales,yeah, and I enjoy it.
Plus, once you meet people andyou're shooting the shit with
them and all that kind of stuff,it's like you got them.
You got them from there on in.
They know it's like hey, Ispent a little time with this
guy.
It was fun.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Yeah, I mean it's a personable experience, man.
I mean, imagine me as a kidbeing able to go up to a merch
table and hang out with RandyRhodes.
I mean that would I just passout, exactly.
I mean I can think of a milliondifferent.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
I mean, I remember seeing the Allman brothers for
the first time and just likejust being, oh my God, it
wouldn't be cool just to talkwith those guys, and you know
you go up to the merch table andyou it's like they're nowhere
to be found.
But nowadays, I mean people,you know, have access to people
like never before and I thinkthat's a, I think that's a good
thing and I I always put Ialways make this point too is

(16:42):
that, I think as a result of thevideos where I'm just kind of
myself it's not like I'm puttingon airs, I mean you're, it's
not like the camera goes on andI'm any different than I am in
regular life, which is troubling.
But you know, I rememberhanging out once at one of these
music things I think it was upin like that Cosmo Music up in
Canada.
You ever been to that?
They kind of put like a littlemini NAMM thing up there.

(17:04):
It's kind of like SweetwaterGear Fest or something like that
.
And I had to do this panel witha couple of different people and
one of them was Eddie Kramerand me being a huge Hendrixite
and Zeppelinite, you know,sitting next to Eddie Kramer was
awesome and we were just kindof shooting the breeze and he
was cool enough.
But I noticed how people wouldcome up to him and they were
like super fan, like real.

(17:25):
They were like kind of psycho,like can you sign it?
Can you sign this for me, eddie?
You know, when you were withJimmy and it just was
uncomfortable and weird, andthen that same person would come
to me and be like hey, greg,how's it going?
And it was just like they weretotally different people.
It was like no pageantry, justhi, how are you?
And I was like I'm so gratefulthat I, you know, I've managed

(17:48):
to have that kind of connectionwith folks, because the whole
you know star thing that peoplemanufacture and you know what I
mean that, yeah, I think it'sjust, it's not a natural
phenomenon.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
I think that's why Neil Neil Peart never liked
doing meet and greet.
He never did them.
But he doesn't want to hangwith fans and hear that he's
great.
I mean he could talk on theside of the road, motorcycles
with somebody and all day longand ride and whatever.
But he doesn't want that on thestar and you're the fan thing.
He's not comfortable with thatat all Right, which it's weird,
man.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
I mean I've, I've, I've witnessed it next to people
who are, as I said, like EddieKramer and stuff like that.
I'm sure you've done the samething when you're, and it's just
, it's a little off puttingshall we say?

Speaker 2 (18:38):
You know, I have a funny Eddie K kramer story.
I was chad and I, uh, againchad, um chili pepper drummer.
He's on the way, so he and Iare I think it's maybe that
hendrix listening party.
Yeah, I had fender with janiehendrix, was you know one of
these releases?
Anyway, eddie's there, I'mtalking and chad and I are
talking with him and chad keepsbringing up kiss to him.
You know he did work with kissbut, right, such a larger career
than kiss, that'd be like thelower end of the talent pool.

(19:01):
And so he cuts Chad off andhe's very kind of dry and just
to the point kind of person youknow, and he goes.
Why do you keep bringing upKiss Chad's?
like you know, kiss was my firstconcert, you know.
Well, I love Kiss, you know,and he goes.
Why don't you bring up, youknow, talk to me something more
valid.
Let's say like Hendrix or thewho or you know.
And he's like well, what do youwant to know about Kiss?
He says Chad, they werehorrible musicians.

(19:23):
Then here's their best lineever, he said, with a dry
delivery even their instrumentswere bad.

Speaker 1 (19:34):
And I remember he told a story in one of those
again one of those Fendergatherings, and it was a Q&A
thing, and he was told that hewas looking for things to
produce and he was given thechoice of a few different things
.
But one of them was like youcould either produce Boston or
you could produce Kiss.

(19:55):
And of course Tom Schultz hadeverything like almost already
ready.
You know it's like it wasalready done.
And then he listened to Kissand he's like I've got way more
work to do with this other band.
It'd be much more of achallenge and fun to try to to
pull something out of Kiss thanit would be to Boston.
So he turned down Boston andwent with Kiss, which is
fascinating.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
Yeah, yeah.
And then he went on to talkabout Kiss Alive.
He's like the only thing wecould salvage is the snare drum
on some of the tracks.
And we're like what do you mean?
Alive is not alive.
Oh my God, you know, chad'sbrother lives here in my
hometown and I see him all thetime.
Brad, yeah, yeah, brad, youknow.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
Chad's brother lives here in my hometown and I see
him all the time.
Brad, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
Brad, I know you work with him a lot with all the
Hell Letter books and yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
Well, I think it's so funny about those two.
It's like Brad is like thebefore and Chad is like the
after when you look at him.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
I'm not sure, yeah, and I think Brad's the older
brother.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
He looks more fresh.
You know, the road is tough.
Yeah, it is.
It is.
It has its moments.
So, speaking of which, what'syou?
What are you working on rightnow?
What's what's the haps?
When is your next?

Speaker 2 (21:04):
experience.
Every day I'm doing pr stufffor the record, uh, so non-stop.
Uh I have some random like Ijust did a lou graham gig, tony
franklin on base, yeah yeah, acouple random shows with him.
I probably have like 10 showswith Parsons before I leave for
Japan and I'm going to be inJapan for two months with

(21:26):
Rapaport and some other fellasand in between that and as I
mentioned to you, I want to juststart doing as many shows as I
can of my own stuff with my trio.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
You know, bowling night, dart night, whatever man
I like it, I'll slum it anywhere.
We just did a couple of shows.
We played up in Escanaba, thenwe played outside of Chicago and
then we played Toledo and theywere all well attended, great
shows and a lot of fun.
And you know, not allinstrumental.
I sing a bit, kevin sings a bit.
Yeah, yeah, kevin Chown, myselfand Dave Pot have been a
drummer from Escanaba, so yeah,the mighty Escanaba.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
Yeah, you know it's fun to put some shows together.
I'm down with that.
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
I think we complement each other well, you know.
Absolutely no doubt about it.
So yeah, why not?
So yeah about it.
So yeah, why not?
So yeah, I've been working onthat and, uh, I have a record.
I want to do all vocal stuff toget some different singers.
I want to hand pick the singersfor different.
Make it glenn hughes, philmaude, call them my rock star
friends.
You know it's a great singer,jimmy netko from the band hours.

(22:30):
I want to get him on the record.
I've got probably 20, 25, 30songs sketched out.
Some are done, some aren't, andgot a couple with the great
singer Robbie Wyckoff, who washired by Roger Waters to do the
big wall tour.
When they did that, all theDavid Gilmour parts wonderful
singer.
So he and I have written acouple tunes together that will

(22:53):
be on there.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
So where do you live again when you're back in the
Midwest, is it in Indiana or isit in Ohio?

Speaker 2 (23:01):
It's Northwest Indiana, so it's a little town
called Chesterton.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
It's 20 minutes West of Michigan city.
Okay, yeah, it's great.
I mean five minutes from theIndiana dunes national park, a
little golf community.
I don't golf, but you know, andpeople asked me when I moved
there, like what do you think ofit here?
I said, well, I feel like I'min witness protection.
You know, it's like I findmyself looking out my front

(23:28):
window see if the neighbor's outthere Cause I want to walk my
dog and not talk for an hour.
And you know, and part of thatwas because we're in covid
lockdown anyway.
So life was weird, right, right.
So we my wife's like let's buya house during the lockdown.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
I'm like, great, I just lost how much money well,
you know, what I find isinteresting is, you know, we
just got back from just shy of athree-week jaunt and most of of
it is on the West Coast.
And you know we were in a fewdifferent towns.
You know we started in like StLouis, did St Louis, kansas City

(24:03):
, denver, phoenix, we played outin Venice West, we played down
in San Diego up to NorthernCalifornia, blah, blah, blah.
But what I realized is that Ican't handle all the people out
there.
It's like there's the trafficat any time of day is a complete
shit show.
It's just so nice.
Coming back here, it's like,you know, the Milwaukee

(24:24):
metropolitan area.
If you include all the suburbs,it's like a little over a
million people.
But literally, from where Ilive, it's like 20 minutes, even
at rush hour.
I mean maybe, maybe a half hour, you know.
But I just realized I just haveno tolerance for the
preponderance of humanoids.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yeah, I mean I just drove to Fond du Lac, wisconsin,
yep, for a Lou Graham gig andit made sense to just drive and
said I'm not going to go toMidway, and then you know,
milwaukee, whatever.
So point of all that is, we'rein great locations for touring
most of the country.
I mean LA.
It's like you got LA what SanDiego, vegas, phoenix that's

(25:05):
seven hours away.
There's nothing in the WestCoast.
Exactly you really want to hit10 hours from your hometown.
I mean you can hit a lot ofplaces, as you know Exactly
correct, which is all good Nownow, where do you play out in la
?
Is it like maui sugar mill, oneof those kind of joints?
Well, this time we play.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
I mean so far.
We played the mint a coupletimes, and both those how you do
this.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
Uh, let's see, yeah rub my eyes.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
Um, we played the mint a couple of times, and
those were both good.
And then we did, um, we did athing at, uh, the baked potato,
and that was a good one.
The only thing that was weirdabout the baked potato was you
know it was.
It was.
You know, obviously it's thelegendary joint.
I know you've played out therea million times and it's every
one of their brother.
It's like the place to play andthe first time playing out

(25:59):
there it's like you sold it out.
I'm like awesome, what doesthat mean?
You know?
It's like what?
60 people in there, but but itwas still.
Hey, you know, both shows are,are, are sold out, like awesome.
So then we showed up.
We don't make them pay, lookwhat.

(26:21):
That just seems a little weird.
So then I mean it was fun andit was a legendary joint and I
had a good time.
But then the next time we werecoming out there, I did a bunch
of those Cadillac Zach gigs,which is an interesting thing,
because what's wild about histhings is that you know, like
you came in and sat in thatnight at the Maui sugar mill,
those gigs are.

(26:41):
They're always packed and wecan announce those like two
weeks before they happen, and heputs out a mailing list and
they're packed, asshole to elbow, which is cool.
The only problem is they're notreally at venues per se.
You know, they're at kind oflike I mean, the Maui is a
little bit more like anold-style club where there's a
little stage and so on and soforth.
But a lot of the other placesare, like you know, the stages

(27:03):
are improvised, which is fine, Imean, certainly I've done that
plenty over the years but itdoesn't really lend itself for
the full balls-deep experience,right.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
I remember seeing Eric Gale's at Mama's Rib Shack
yes, Makeshift floor pseudostage.
At one point he broke a stringand he had no tech, no backup
guitar.
I ended up changing the stringfor him.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's thething I'm like.
Let me get this in the audience.
Yeah, I mean, Mama's Rib ShackGreat show.

(27:36):
But you need a proper venue tofeel the ball.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
So the last two times we've been out there we've
played at the Venice West andthat seems to be a good place.
I know at one point I playedthe place in Hermosa Beach where
Grant Green recorded that live,or the Lighthouse.
That was kind of a fun joint,but anyway.
So those are a few different.

(28:02):
This last time we played VeniceWest and that was cool.
We're still trying to find, youknow, our spot in San Francisco
.
We've messed around with a fewdifferent places.
Yeah, maybe Yogi's would thatwork for you.
I think Yoshi's is the place weshould be going to.
The last couple of times weplayed this place in Berkeley

(28:24):
called the Cornerstone Brewery,which is kind of this new venue.
It's a cool venue, but we'vejust not really had the response
there, as we did, like atSweetwater in Mill Valley, which
is Bob Weir's place.
We did pretty well there andthen we played once at the Boom
Boom Room, which was down by theFillmore and that was down and

(28:46):
dirty.
I actually kind of dug it.
But yeah, we're still trying.
I think Yoshi's would be theroom.
So it's like what we're findingout is that you know, you have
these rooms that are rooms thatpeople that like our kind of
music are kind of just checkingout the schedule for and are
like, oh well, I like that guy,I'll come and see him at that

(29:07):
place because I like that placeas well as all the different
stuff that I do to try to getour crowd out, whereas a lot of
these places, if you're justshowing up at like rando rock
club, that has everything kindof across the board, then we're
kind of responsible for bringingeverybody in.
You know what I mean and that'sand that can be a bit of a
challenge.
But, as I said, we get donewith the tours and I look at the

(29:27):
numbers and we're making grownup money, no matter what, you
know it all balances out and sowe're just going to keep on
keeping on by God and it'sworking and it can only get
better.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
As I said, it's such a blessing that your son is your
drummer.
You know you get to hang andyeah, totally.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
And there's a lot of cool.
You know telepathic things thathappen rhythmically.
It's just bizarre, you knowwhat I mean?
Well, plus, we've been playingjust as the trio for so long now
and we've been touring so muchthat it's just locked.
And that's the thing I'm sureyou could speak to it too is the
fact that it's like you can puttogether really good musicians

(30:06):
who are just top shelf A-listplayers, and it's always going
to be good.
But there's something else thathappens entirely when you
germinate with a set lineup fora prolonged period of time that
can't be duplicated by justassembling the super friends.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (30:22):
yeah, yeah, I used to go see landau.
I mean I still do, but um, heused to play with toss panos and
jimmy johnson and toss I meanhim and that trio is like second
to none man, those guys and Ilove you know, gary, uh, what's
his name?
Novak?
He's great drummer, but it'snot the same as it is with toss,

(30:43):
it just is.
It's not as greasy man.
You know, he's a little cymbalheavy.
He's great and I'm being reallynitpicky, but, man, you know, I
understand what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
It's great, but it's not.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
It doesn't have that other thing yeah, they had a
thing that they that's, you know, just intangible.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
God damn it yes, one of these days I want to hang out
with.
I've talked to lando on thephone a few times and just never
really.
You know, we just kind of shootthe breeze every now and again
with text, but I've never reallyhad a chance to hang, which
would would be awesome.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
Yeah, because he's just such a pirate.
There are two different mics.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
I've heard there's one that if you add water it
makes its own sauce.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
I'll just leave it at that.
I dearly love him.
He's a great guy and he's oneof the greatest players period.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
Frank Zabala add water makes its own sauce.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yeah, he's a funny cat man.
Yes, indeed, and your buddy'swith Steve Lukather, right I?

Speaker 1 (31:48):
am.
You know we got to be pals.
You know I've only really hungout with him in person a few
times again, but you know wejust really hit it off.
I mean, it was I think thefirst time I met him in person
when we were shooting the shit.
Uh was like on an am show orsomething.
But then when he was in townwith ringo and uh hanging out
with him and I of course I'dknown bisonette for a while and

(32:10):
I knew colin hay and they wereall on the gig.
So next thing, you know, I'm inthe dressing room hanging out
with those three and then ringowalks in.
You're just kind of like, youknow, but then ringo's like
totally cool and just we juststart, you know, and it was
totally unassuming, just talkingshit.
You know, it was fantastic.
Yeah, that's the way it shouldbe, that's right, that's right.

(32:31):
But who needs the pageantry?

Speaker 2 (32:35):
I think I get a little giddy meeting ringo, you
know.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah well , it was just kind of funny,
because I I remember at onepoint I'm talking to him and
then I think I get a littlegiddy meeting Ringo.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, it was just kind of funny.
I remember at one point I'mtalking to him and then
Bissonette was asking about myson.
He's like, so, he's like, ringo, you know, Greg's son is a
great drummer.
Where did he end up going toschool?
And then we started talkingabout that and I just told the
story about how we were in Italyand we were touring and we're

(33:02):
staying at some hotel and wechecked in a little early cause
we didn't, you know, we we kindof drove in early, so it's like
two o'clock in the afternoon.
I'm going to go for a littlewalk, so nice day.
I'm walking down the stairs, Iopen up the door to the lobby
and there's Steve Gad standingthere.
I'm like what?
And I was like, what are youdoing here?
He's like, well, I'm in townwith my band.
I was like you know, my son'syour biggest, you know, he's the

(33:26):
biggest fan of your activities.
And then Lando comes.
He's like Greg, what are youdoing here?
I'm like this is weird.
So at the end of our gig andtheir gig, we all meet up in the
lobby and we're hanging out,and you know.
And Lando's like you saying todad you got to see Greg's trio.
No, no, no.
I'm like this is surreal.
And then Dylan takes a picturewith Steve Gadd and is just

(33:47):
beside himself.
So I'm telling this joke,geeking out about Steve Gadd,
and I'm realizing I'm tellingthis story to Ringo Starr.
I'm geeking out about a drummerto ringo star, but ringo didn't
miss a beat.
He's like man.
I'll never forget the time backin the day where I'm hanging
out with steve gatton.
We dropped acid and, you know,one thing led to another, but oh
my god it was just the wholething was surreal.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
Yeah, that's beautiful though you know mike
would be a good one uh, to dosome double bills with he.
He reached out to me years agowhen I was doing meat bat stuff
with chad.
He's like we should do someshows together.
Yeah, yeah, basically he waspushing me to like, if you make
some stuff happen, that would begreat.
But then I was dealing withlike four meat bats and then
landau's trio and we could justnever line up schedules.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
Yeah, yeah, whenever you get anything lined up, it's
like so, but I know he wants todo his thing more when I first
got on this, uh, the first triorecord that we did with this
lineup was on that label in in,uh the netherlands, uh, mascot
and, and they had, and landa hada record that had just come out

(34:53):
and he's like boy, it'd begreat if you guys could do some
gigs together and we talkedabout it and it all seemed to
make sense but could never getthe timing right.
So, yeah, it's unfortunatething, you know.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah, it is a tricky thing he's out with.
Uh, james taylor a bit, andyeah he's out with he did a
couple random things with ericjohnson down in austin.
I saw that down in texas.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah, that's right, we're headed down to Texas next
week.
Now, jeff, there's nothingbetter than going to Texas in
August.
It's just so cool and crisp, ohmy God, can you imagine?
Well, what's funny is that myyoungest has joined the Air
Force and he's in basic trainingright now, as we speak, in San

(35:38):
Antonio.
You imagine doing basictraining in the summer in San
Antonio, texas.
Some people can die from that.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
Yes, yes, come on, and they don't really care
because it's basic training.
They want to put you down.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
Yeah, they want to weed out the weak and only keep
the hardy and savage.
Yeah, it's pretty crazy.
I always forget.
Is it five children?
I have four, so he's myyoungest of four.
I did not have that on my bingocard that one of my kids would
join the military.
It just was like I did not seeit coming.
But you know, he was going toschool and put two years in.

(36:12):
He was a biochem major.
He's always been organized andinterested in all kinds of
different stuff.
He's a chess champion and heplayed sex and he's like this
likes that.
You know his philosophy and allthis shit.
And then one day my wife callsme up and she's kind of speaking
in hushed tone, she's like Italked to John.
I'm like, oh my God, did he geta girl knocked up?

(36:33):
And what?
What is this?
What is this whispering?
He wants to join the military.
I'm like what?
So I mean, all said and done, hehad sussed it all out.
He's like, look, I'm notentirely sure what.
I know what I want to do, and Iwant to go into the air force
and do like you know, you knowgenerators or something where I
want to get certificates and allthis different stuff.
I can probably get mybachelor's degree while I'm in
there and then after four yearsI'll have money to go to school

(36:55):
and I'll have this.
That the next thing.
And once I realized that he wasserious about it, had done all
the research, it's almost like Igot a raise because now I don't
have to pay for his college.
We interrupt this regularlyscheduled gristle infested
conversation to give a specialshout out to our friends at
Fishman Transducers, makers ofthe Greg Koch signature fluence

(37:18):
Gristle Tone pickup set Can youdig that?
And our friends at WildwoodGuitars of Louisville, colorado,
bringing the heat in the shadowof the Rocky Mountains.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
You know I agreed to do this podcast because I'm
going to ask you for a loan atthe end my daughter's apartment
that we just got.
Oh man, I'll tell you what.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
I get it.
Kids are expensive, oh my God.
Yes, well, I have two at home.
Back are back at home.
My daughter, who is living up inMinneapolis, got a job down
here and but she's been singingand writing songs and so she
came back down here.
We're working on a record forand she's starting to do some

(38:02):
gigs by herself and she's got agood gig and it's fun having her
around.
And then my daughter, who's theactress that does all kinds of
different stuff.
She's been on the West coastfor a couple of years now and so
she just moved back and she'skind of you know, figuring out
her next step.
So I've got two at home, whichyou know figuring out her next
step.
So I've got two at home, whichis kind of fun, actually, cause
when I go off on the road thenmy wife has someone to hang with

(38:23):
while I'm gone, which is good,yeah, cause I'm out with the boy
causing trouble.
That's right.
We're just feasting likewarriors at all times.
I got to say, you know, I usedto be able to put away the food,
and I've.
I've had to.
You had to cut back of mydevouring ways because I don't
want to be Jabba the Hutt.
None of there's anything wrongwith that, but he's 29, so his

(38:46):
metabolism is still roaringalong yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
He's taller than you are right.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
Well, he looks taller than I am, but when we stand
back to back we're the sameheight, so we're both 6'7", but
he's got hair and he's a biggerdude, the same height.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
So we're both six, seven, but he's got hair and
he's a bigger dude, you knowhe's got more.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
He's a bigger dude Anywho, so uh, but he could
feast.
Like.
There's this in Venice beach.
There's where we, we alwaysstay with this really nice
couple down in Venice and theyput us up at their place and and
right over there on LincolnAvenue or whatever it is,
there's a Lincoln Boulevard,whatever the fuck it's called.
There's this, a street tacovendor that has the Alpastore

(39:26):
that they cut fresh.
They got a big vat of the ofthe carne asada, yada, yada,
yada.
And we go there like twice aday and when they see my son son
coming, they just start going10 taco, 10.
Because he goes up and he'llsay I want 10 tacos and a
burrito.
And then he finishes that andthen goes back for more and

(39:49):
they're just sitting thereshaking their head.
I'm like, yeah, welcome to myworld.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
He's a I remember my husband, my buddy dan, and we're
like last call at steak andshake.
At two in the morning we get awalk in line.
He could see the grill man.
He said, hey, grill man put 13patties on that grill.
And I'm not joking and I was avegetarian at that time.
It was me and his two sons.
I'm like Jesus, 13 patties,that's a lot of nourishment.

(40:15):
Yeah, it's good for you a lotof nourishment.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
Yeah, it's good for you.
Well, probably not a grill man,and I'm not kidding.
So have we talked about in yourdays in toledo?
Were you a tony pacco's man?
Oh yeah, yeah, I love thatjoint.
Good god, almighty.
That's another thing when we'retraveling we got to go to, when
we travel through toledo, wealways got to go to tony pacco's
and feast.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
you know toledo is like the test number one testing
ground for new restaurants.
So everybody go to Tony Paco'sand feast.
You know Toledo is like thenumber one testing ground for
new restaurants.
So everybody comes to Toledo Alot of people don't know this to
test out their restaurant andsee if it works, what works.
So there's so much food inToledo, ohio, it's unbelievable.
That is great.
There's some pretty greatplaces.
There's a fish house downtownyou just die for I mean you, you

(40:57):
know the fish collar and allthis.
I mean it's just unbelievablethat's the power of toledo.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
Yeah, you know.
Do you still have family thereor no?

Speaker 2 (41:06):
um, you know what I mean.
On my father's side everybodyhad passed away, but on my
mother's side there's cousins.
I mean they each have like 10kids and their kids have kids,
and I can't even keep track ofthese people.
So yeah, you know, I have acouple of uncles on my mom's
side there and cousins.
They're all still there.
The thing about Toledo ispeople never leave Toledo.

(41:27):
It's really blue collar.
You know my wife it's likeeverybody she grew up with.
They all went off to school,college, purdue, in Toledo.
We were like fans of IronMaiden and Black Sabbath and you
know, most of the kids just gointo a skill center and get a
job at Ford or Chrysler.
None of them ever went tocollege.
College wasn't even an option,you know.

(41:48):
So for me I just saw music and,okay, I got to get out of
Toledo.
You know you're going to diethere.
It's like Detroit with lessoptions.
Yeah Well the thing is too.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
I was kind of making a joke in my own head, as I do.
Uh, you know, when you're froma town that's not a music town
per se it's like you'll never.
You know, like people say to me, it's like, well, how come you
know, this and this and this intown doesn't take, you know,
because you don't really get therespect in your hometown.
I mean, I can't really complainbecause I've I've had a good

(42:24):
run, but there's still timeswhere it's like they'll have
this festival or that festivaland it's like, do I really need
to pitch myself for that?
You know, I've been around forso long.
And then someone goes what's thedeal with people, you know, in
your hometown not respectingthem?
Like, listen, if you wantrespect in your hometown, you
got to leave it.
That's the only way you'regoing to get respect in your
hometown.
And then by the time you go outand you do and you make it

(42:46):
elsewhere where you're able tomake a living elsewhere, then
you don't really give a shitwhat the hometown thinks and
it's just like a place to visit.
And you know, in my case, comeback, raise my kid.
I mean, I probably play in towntwo, three times a year and, as
I said, I've had a good run,but there's plenty of different
festivals and things that happenthat we don't get called for
anymore, and it's like thebetter you do outside of your

(43:07):
hometown, the less they give ashit about you in their home,
because if you're not in frontof them every day, you know what
I mean.
They're like well, they're gone, okay.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
All right.
Well, if that's the way it is,yeah, it's like a catch-22.
You, but Toledo is a music town.
I mean, it was a great placebetween bands that were playing
Detroit, chicago.
They would always hit Toledo ona Tuesday or off day.
And I mean, even like I've seenNarciso Yippies, I've seen, you
know, classical guys, rock guys, you know the Chick Corea

(43:36):
Acoustic Band of Peristyle,downtown Right, so we'd see
everything.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
Right.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
And if it wasn't in Toledo, I'd go to Detroit.
I remember seeing Segovia inDetroit.
I mean, everybody comes toDetroit, right, detroit Rock
City, that's right.
Wow, I love your Johnny Wintersshirt.
Oh, thank you.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
You're the legend.
There's this cool websitecalled bluescentriccom and
whenever I need stuff fortouring, you know cause I like
to get wear nice shirts andstuff like that, but you know
I'm a huge fucker so I can'tfind shit that fits.
And then if I do and it's gotlong sleeve shirt, I can only
really wear that in thewintertime, cause in the summer

(44:16):
like we just got done being outWest and we're going to be the
great decision to go down toTexas in the middle of August
it's like I'm going to sweat myballs off.
So I just got to find coollooking t-shirts that I can wear
on stage, and so they had abunch of cool Johnny winter
shirts and they got a bunch ofcool Hendrick shirts and and
then I send away to the Allmanbrothers museum has some really

(44:37):
cool shirts, so I send away forthat and then, you're.
so you just kind of, they'recool, but they're t-shirts and
then of course you know,laundry-wise they're easy to
deal with.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
So I've kind of just yeah, I had a t-shirt on and I
was like I'm not sure what thissays.
And then it could say, like youknow, I love young Japanese
women, or something I don't knowif we'd appreciate that it
could say something dirty.
It could say anything.

(45:07):
Know what?
We're coming to your area withalan parsons um october 10th.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
sure, the venue, but it's on his website and then
because I won't be home untilwe're coming back from the uk on
the 12th.
Yeah well, I will just miss you.
Other than that, it would begreat to get together, as we did
last time you were through, ortime before last you, I and dan
tracy went to a couple musicshops we did indeed.
I believe we feasted at somepoint, did we not?

Speaker 2 (45:30):
probably we partaked partook, partake, partook you
know, I found a place, dmartino's.
Yeah, yeah, ah, and we invite.
We ended up inviting them tothe show that night.
They were wonderful people, thefather and the daughter and you
.
They run the whole joint.
It's wonderful, was it?

Speaker 1 (45:46):
Eddie Martini's or D Martini's?

Speaker 2 (45:49):
D Martini's, Okay, yeah gotcha, I think it's D
Martino's.
D Martino's, yeah, it's likesouth side of Milwaukee.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
On the south side over there one time oh hey, on a
counter I made a Fargoreference when I was in Escanaba
on stage I was like why did Ijust do that?
Funny at all.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
I don't get up to the UP very much.

Speaker 2 (46:16):
It's beautiful up there, but yeah, there's a place
House of Ludington you shouldplay and Kevin Shown does a
regular thing there and it'slike the oldest hotel in
Michigan.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
Oh, no, kidding.
Yeah, there's a lot of Finns upthere, finnish folk, apparently
.
There's like counties up therewhere the signs are written in
two languages English andFinnish, which I did not know.
Ken Haas, our friend fromReverend Guitars from Toledo,
ohio, his kin are from up there,so he goes up there and goes to
those counties where it's thinis the second language.

(46:51):
Now you're still endorsingReverend, right?
I am.
I've got a new guitar coming outin a few months, as a matter of
fact, and then the cock amp aswell.
You know what?
I'm not doing that anymore.
I reached an amicabledischargement, if you will, from
those folks.
It just wasn't panning out fora few different reasons and I

(47:16):
started working with the ToneKing people.
I had been using a Tone KingImperial at Wildwood for years,
but they have this newMarshall-y type of device, the
Royalist, and I've been usingthe single 12 combo with a 112
extension cabinet and thatsucker sounds good.
So it's more of a Marshall-ything which I dig.

(47:39):
I kind of go between two things.
It's like you know.
I'm sure you're kind of thesame way.
It's like you know, turning anamp all the way up, it always
sounds best.
The second option is preamp.
Distortion is the next bestthing.
Yeah, for applications for liveuse and consistency.
Set the amp cleanish and usepedals, am I right?

(47:59):
Yeah, yep, so that's where I'vepretty much on with this.
I mean, occasionally I'll, likeon the beginning of this last
tour, cause it's a two channelamp and it's got attenuators for
both channels, so you basicallyjust turn it up and it's got
the setting where you can belike JTM 45 or like, um, a 1972
Plexi, and so I'll use the cleansound to be more of the JTM45

(48:24):
and kind of dime the secondchannel, and so you're
overdriving the power amp andthen turning it down with the
attenuator.
But let's be honest, afterthree songs those attenuators
are ineffectual and I've justdimed it.
And then the only problem withthat, of course, is that there's
no effects loop.
I wouldn't use the effects loopeven if it had it, but um, so I

(48:45):
got to turn the delays way down, so they're just just like a
little bit of something, yeahand um, but then by the end of
the tour it's just like I'll setit clean and just hit the
pedals from there and be donewith it.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
Yeah, it was quandary you had some awesome when I
played your rig you had someawesome when I played your rig.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
You had some awesome gain stages.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
Yeah, yeah, it's more of that than a different
effects.
Like, I don't even have achorus pedal on my pedal board,
you know, it's just not my thing.
Chorus is really my thing,right.
But yeah, different gain stages.
You know, use a Marshall.
You can always backline a DSLJCM 2000.
I go to the clean channel.
Put the grid in just a littlebit, right, just a hair right,

(49:27):
just enough to compress it alittle bit Exactly, and the
pedals react the way they dowith my old Mark II Marshall
Right.
So it always works and it's theonly thing that works.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
Are you a reverb guy or do you like delay instead?

Speaker 2 (49:46):
I like both For rhythm't stand.
You know, having delay onrhythm it's messy, right.
Oh, uh, you know solos, yeah,like gary moore kind of.
You know right, nice littletape echoes helps me sound
better.
Um, but I love, I love verb,you know, yeah, yeah.
So I saw a, a program withinthat free the tone pedal board.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
Oh, I got you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah 150 pounds.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
You know I can get my sound within two minutes, right
away.
Basically, I can go anythingfrom like a clean Eric Johnson
to Edward Van Halen, Right, butit's still my sound.
But it's definitely, you know,crosses the gamut.
I mean, who's going to bringlike three amps out on a tour,
Like you know?
I mean, if you're a Johnson, itworks for him.
But I needed to figure out howto do it within one amp.

(50:30):
Right, I get it, you know andpeople always understand all the
details.
I'm like hey, it took me yearsto figure this out.
You think I'm just going totell you.
You know, it's not like I'mguarding, but at the same time,
like you know, get your ownthing.
People are not going to soundlike me anyway.
You know, if you played my rig,you'd sound like you, Right,

(50:50):
you know how it is?
Yeah, absolutely, you know.
Holsworth changed his gear allthe time and he always sounded
like Holsworth, Exactly.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
Yeah, well, it's kind of funny.
We did one gig on this lasttour that was in this basement
at this cool club.
There's a cool club in Portland.
I don't know if you ever playedit, but it's called the Jack
London Review.
I would recommend that.
It's a cool, joint, coollistening room and they had a
twin.
So we're like, why load ourstuff in, we'll just use this?

(51:25):
And yeah, so I set the twin, Ihad it like on three and then I
just used pedals from there.
But what was so funny is I wasso used to not using reverb and
then my buddy, brian Kehoe, whenI was in Berkeley, brought me
out one of those MXR reverbpedals which just and I put that
in the chain just added on alittle bit, which was nice.
But man, when you haven't useda Fender reverb for a while and

(51:48):
you hear it's like on two, it'slike way too much.
It's like, oh my God, yeah, Iwanted a little reverb.
I thought two meant little.
It's like it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
I remember you, you looked at my settings on my twin
for a Fender event.
You're like it's great, Iremember you.
You looked at my settings on mytwin for a fender event.
You're like it's the samesettings I use, like we, yeah,
yeah, the range where it was,and the treble and the boost and
yeah, all that.
You know, if I had to justbackline something other than

(52:19):
that marshall that I use, I meanif I had an old hand-wired twin
with pedals, it sounds amazing.
Yes, you know, original 60stwins are just fantastic
sounding amp.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
Absolutely Another one.
I don't know about you, but Iused to always love 10s.
You know I loved them in superreverbs.
I love Vibraluxes.
But then something happened.
Well, you know, when I startedplaying with this band, with
Toby and with Dylan Dylan hits alittle harder than any other
drummer I've ever played with,and of course Toby, that that B3
gets ruined I realized I need,I need 12s, I just need that

(52:53):
bigger tone.
And uh, after years I pluggedinto a pro reverb.
I'm like, I always love supers,but a pro is basically a super.
With 12s it sounds fuckingawesome.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
Yeah, that's what I use when I play locally.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the old 60spro yeah because 50 watts is a
lot.
Yeah, I love the super reverb.
You know, with the 10s, withthe strat in the studio, it's
great, but live, you know, whenyou start adding distortion and
humbucker and it's.
I need 12s Right 12s do a thing.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
Yeah, you know, it was funny.
It's like years ago I rememberI got to be friendly with Danny
Gatton a little bit, right, andso we talk on the phone every
now and again and I'll neverforget him having the same
conversation.
He's like yeah, you know what?
I'm tired of using 10s.
I need to start using 12s again.
I'm going to start using mytweed twin again, which I just
thought was interesting.

(53:49):
It's like everyone kind of goesthrough this thing.
Yeah, what was he based out of?
He was from in the DC area,okay, and we had done a show
with him at shank hall, of allplaces here in milwaukee.
Yeah and um, we just hit it off.
He was so cool and nice andcomplimentary and I still have

(54:11):
my legal pad where I wrote myset list.
And he he wrote with a sharpiehis name, address and phone
number saying call me anytime.
And I've got a upholstery signand a buddy of mine framed it
and and it says Greg.
Um, you're fantastic and that'sno bullshit, danny Gatt.
Oh, I frame that.

(54:32):
Yeah, I frame that, some bitchdude sweet he's a god man.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
What up?
He'll just, you know, smokeanybody.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
I mean, he's just guys what was so great about it,
too, is that you know how itand you see a lot of guitar
shows and there's people thatunderstand how to play great and
entertain and there's peoplethat just play great and you
just really have to be into itin order to be really
entertained.
But he understood how toentertain and it was fun as fuck
and he was great and he wasfunny and of course it was

(55:03):
awesome.
And, yeah, fuck, and he wasgreat and he was funny and of
course it was awesome and, um,yeah, he used a tweed twin and
it was not quiet.
Yeah, but that's another thing Ialways talk about in these
things is that you know, you,you go into these clubs nowadays
, especially if you're in europeand you just get read the riot
at for playing.
You know a 50, a 50-watt amp,that's barely on.

(55:25):
You know, god forbid you'd useanything more than that.
But I'm thinking, jesus Christ,people used to tour with
Marshalls all the time, you know, and come into these clubs with
stacks.
I mean, what did they do then?
Yeah, you know, people are.
You know they have a verydifferent attitude of what's
acceptable as far as volumethese days, and my motto is just
let the bands do their thing.
And if you know what they doand you've hired them, just let

(55:47):
them do their thing and tellpeople to wear earplugs.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
Yeah, I get to throw off a pretty good volume on
stage with Ellen ParsonsSometimes they'll put the Plexi
in front, but I'm moving a lotof air and the bass player as
well, but basically we're thetwo that are pushing off the
stage, which is nice and and thesound man's fantastic and he
loves guitar in the mix and soexcellent.

Speaker 1 (56:11):
Good, yeah, it's great I love it because I was
visiting a buddy of mine who wasteching for a for, uh, chicago,
as a matter of fact, and I wentand said, said hi to him, and
there's literally nothing onstage.
There's nothing other thandrums, you know, and percussion.
Everything else is, is, youknow, direct, and there's no,
there were no monitors on stage,so it's all you know earbuds

(56:34):
and so on and so forth, and Iunderstand, and I understand the
quality control and all thatkind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
It's a little weird, though.
I mean, a buddy of mine wentand saw Def Leppard and they're,
all you know, using likeFractal or whatever that is, and
you know it.
Just there's like nothingcoming off the stage.
And recently Neil Sean switchedinstead of using Marshalls and
all that he's, he's, he's wentto the dark side, we'll say, and
the guitar's just not cuttingthrough the mix.

(57:00):
Right Play with Toto.
Luke's got his Wagner.
He still uses the bombdistortion pedal.
Yeah, there's, yeah, yeah, yeah, he loves that pedal Anyway,
but his sound off the stage andthrough the PA is just cutting
right through.
And then, neil Sean, it's likeyou're hearing all this delay.
It's almost like his sound isgoing to ascend and then it's

(57:21):
just affected and then comingout like you're not getting this
dry in your face signal right.
I mean we could have a wholepodcast on moving air and you
know you're not going to replaceamps for me, no way.
Yeah, I'm with you.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
I don't know if you ever go on threads, which is
like the um, you know, there'sthere X, which is the old
Twitter, and then everyone leftthat to go on threads and
there's all kinds of discussionsand I don't engage in any of
this shit, right, but I, youknow I, but I do see it as I'm
scrolling through and you knowpeople get into these.

(57:56):
You know long discourse of youknow, uh, oh, this is just as
good as that.
You know, as far as the fractalstuff, it's gotten to the point
where you can't even tell thedifference and it's like you
know, just like we were talkingabout earlier.
It's like you can hear thedifference between vinyl and
digital.
It's as real as the day is longand there is a difference

(58:17):
between, yeah, you can you knowif you're not paying, if you're
not comparing it to anything.
You probably get an awesomesound with these digital things
and so on and so forth.
But it was like for me when Iwas using the CyberTwin years
ago.
It's like I got a great soundout of it, I recorded stuff with
it, it sounded great.

(58:37):
And then one year or one time Iwas off the road and I went to a
gig and I had the CyberTwin setup and then I brought my super
reverb and put it right next toit and I plugged into the super
reverb and goes oh, it's likeyou hear the difference
immediately.
There's a whole different thingthat happens.
So it's one thing to say, yeah,because of the.
You know the situation we're in, where you can't crank.
You're playing with a band oryou're playing it.

(58:57):
You know that doesn't play veryloud or can't play very loud,
or you're living in an apartmentand you can't turn it up.
I totally get it, but therewill never be anything to
replace the sound of an ampturned up, and there shouldn't
be, because that's part of whywe do this is to be loud is to
move polyps.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
The idea of being able to tame the beast when
you're playing at a high volumeis a whole technique in itself.
Right Now, you have kids whereI get it at a high volume is a
whole technique in itself.
Right now, you have kids whereI get it, they can.
They're playing through afractal or a kemper and there's
nothing.
They're not fighting anything.
And then they'll even put ahair tie on the headstock to I
don't know, because they have tomute, right?
You're never going to see me dothat either.
I mean, right, it's cool, but alot of these kids, if you had

(59:40):
hand on my rig or your rig, itwould be a effing mess, because
they can't tame the beast, theydon't know how to play at loud
volumes and mute and properly.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
You know so you know, you know sometimes you have.
There's a certain setting whereeverything's on as far as your
gain stages and it's all yourhands and just micro turns of
the volume pedal betweencomplete bedlam and sustain and
clean.
You know what I mean.
It's all right there andanything could happen and that's

(01:00:11):
the glory of it.
But to quantize everything intothis perfect sheen of just the
right amount of delay and theperfect volume and compression,
it's like you know it just takesthe pirate right out of it.
Frank.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Marino wouldn't be doing that.
Nope, you listen to Stone Live.
It's like massive.
You know All our heroes.
Come on, edward Van Halen.
Early Eddie, there's no wayyou're going to get a fractal
sound like Van Halen 1.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
No, that sound was glorious.
Or you know, I listened to aton of old Hendrix stuff,
especially was.
Or you know, I listened to aton of ton of old hendrick stuff
, especially a lot of bootlegstuff and sometimes the the,
just the tone.
Live was so devastating butchaotic.
I mean you never knew what wasgoing to happen.
But yes, that's the glory of itvoodoo child live.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
it's like, oh, I'll hear versions that I've never
heard before.
No, I almost have to pull thecar over because I'm having such
a physical reaction.
What I'm hearing on the radio.
Right, I remember Let there BeRock ACDC some live version.
I'm like the guitar tone is somean, man.
Right, jesus, pull the car overJeff, that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
Lord, have mercy.
Well, listen, my friend, it'sbeen an absolute blast.
Thanks for taking some time andI want to tell everybody to go
out and get your new record, yep2023, ad jeff coleman, get it
favorite.
It's a, it's a magnificentoffering violence, violence.
I can dig it and I hope to seeyou soon and let's talk about

(01:01:36):
doing some gigs yeah, soundsgreat, greg all right my friend,
you have a good one.
Take it easy, all right.
Cheers, bye, cheers, bye-bye.
Bye-bye, folks, thanks so muchfor tuning in.
We certainly do appreciate youstopping by and partaking in the
most savory chewable gristlethis side of Cucamonga.

(01:01:57):
Gregory cock, looking forwardto seeing you again next week,
even though I won't actually seeyou, but I'll sense your
presence.
Bye.