Joe Bonamassa Returns: Blues, Guitars, and Business Savvy

Guitar virtuoso Joe Bonamassa returns to Chewing the Gristle, bringing his characteristic wit and wisdom as he prepares for an ambitious European tour season. This conversation between two master guitarists reveals the realities of sustaining a music career with both artistic integrity and business savvy.

Bonamassa takes us behind the scenes of his upcoming three-month European adventure, which includes solo performances, a Black Country Communion reunion after 14 years, and a special tribute to blues legend Rory Gallagher. The logistics are fascinating – he maintains duplicate touring rigs for Europe and America, a practical response to shipping costs that have nearly tripled since the pandemic.

The highlight comes when Bonamassa shares treasures from his 1,200+ instrument collection, including his beloved "Principal Skinner" 1959 Les Paul. Rather than treating these vintage pieces as museum exhibits, he plays them regularly, embracing each new ding and scratch as part of their continuing story. "They're not out here to be preserved," he explains, challenging the collector mentality that prioritizes value over music-making.

What truly distinguishes this episode is Bonamassa's candid assessment of music business realities. After discovering early in his career that middlemen were taking substantial portions of his performance fees, he developed a direct-to-consumer approach that has sustained his career. "My motto is I don't need millions, I just need enough," he shares, articulating a philosophy that values artistic fulfillment over commercial peaks.

For aspiring musicians, Bonamassa offers both sobering and inspiring advice: "You have to love this thing so much that you're willing to take a vow of poverty, still be happy, and can't live with yourself if you don't play." It's this unwavering passion, combined with business acumen, that has enabled his enduring career in the often unforgiving music industry.

Ready to hear more wisdom from one of blues rock's most successful independent artists? Subscribe now and journey through the musical landscape with Joe Bonamassa and your host, Greg Koch.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Ladies and gentlemen, can you believe it?
It's already time for seasonsix of Chewing the Gristle with
yours truly, Greg Cox.
So many delightfulconversations to look forward to
.
We'll talk about music.
Yes, sure, but you know whatelse we're going to talk about.
Anything that comes to mind.
So stay tuned.
We'll talk about music.
Yeah, sure, but you know whatelse we're going to talk about.
Anything that comes to mind.
So stay tuned.
We got some good ones for you.

(00:29):
Chewing the Gristle, Season 6.
Ladies and gentlemen, this weekon Chewing the Gristle, we have
the mighty return of JoeBonamassa.
I've known Joe for many, manyyears and we've had a chance to
get together lately.
Do a little jamming Thought.
It would be fun to get him backon the podcast and chew the

(00:52):
gristle a little bit about whathe's been doing and what's been
happening.
So, without any further ado,let's get it Joe Bonamassa.
This week on Chewing theGristle.
Ladies and gentlemen, boys andgirls, once again we gather
around the gristle fire for alittle Chewing the Gristle sesh.
Today we have the mighty JoeBonamassa on a return visit, the

(01:16):
legendary axeman, bluesman,vocalist, world traveler, guitar
collector.
You know, Joe, what the hell'sgoing on there.
Big Daddy, Are you out inCalifornia, eh?

Speaker 2 (01:29):
I am out in California and I'm leaving
tomorrow.
For well, I don't know whenthis is going to air, but by the
time it airs, I will beembarking on a 12-week,
three-month extravaganza in Euro.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
Euro disney, gonna be there all summer oh my lord,
now that's kind of a long run.
I mean, don't you like to parseit out a little bit more than
that is kind of an unusuallylong run it's going to be
unusually long.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
It's four, four tours , um, it's a solo tour.
Uh, then we have the mightyblack country, communion,
reuniting after, yes, 15 years,for our first tour, literally in
almost 14 years.
That's great.
And uh, then I have a tributeto the great uh, rory gallagher.

(02:18):
Yes, the g.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
The second g is silent by the way, I did not
know that.
I now know that.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
Now, if you're talking about Oasis, it's
Gallagher.
I got it, it's Gallagher.
The 2nd G is silent.
And you know who correct me onthat?
Roy's brother Wild and hisnephew.
No, the 2nd G is silent and wehave a tribute to him three
nights at the Marquee Club inCork, and, and we have a tribute

(02:45):
to him, three nights at theMarquee Club in Cork and a
couple of days off.
And then I do some touring withmy own band again, we're doing
some festivals over there, andthen I come home like July 21st.
So you know, from literallyApril through July, I'll be,
I'll be over in Europe.
You know.
Well, that will be, you knowit'll be'll be, festive.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yes, are you looking forward to it?

Speaker 2 (03:08):
yeah, it's going to be great.
It's a lot of adventures andand and uh, we're doing a
one-off orchestra show at thenorsey jazz festival in july, so
we have to revisit ourhollywood bowl arrangements.
Oh nice, you know, I realizedthat the hollywood bowl that you
can't eat, there's no, there'sno improv.
The orchestras don't like toimprov, no, no.
Hollywood bowl that you can't,there's no, there's no improv.
The orchestras don't like toimprov, no no, you gotta keep
just like you can't just twirlyour hand around, I'll just take

(03:31):
another chorus, not happeningyeah, they need things to be set
or else there's problemsthere's real problems.
And you know, what I'd realizetoo is is the conductor and the
orchestra, as great musicians asthey are, they read and play
what's on that chart, right, andand it it.

(03:52):
They'll run you off the cliffif you have directed them to run
you off the cliff, right, soit's, they're playing it and
they're going hey, it's on thesheet, that's how they're.
They're not like us, where we,we just make it up as we go
along, right we're we're able touh, with a wink and a nod
diverge yeah, it's like.

(04:12):
You know it's trying to.
You know, steer a cruise ship,you know, in the grand prix of
monte carlo.
Yeah, monaco yes, indeed.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
Now will you be taking your current rig from the
US of A over there for theseactivities, including the
majestic Lowell George Dumble?

Speaker 2 (04:31):
No, the Lowell George amp will be staying stateside
Like anything in this world.
Why have one when you can havetwo at twice the price?
Well, of course, I have asecond amp shanty that goes over
once a year for all ourEuropean adventures.
And there's a second set ofguitars.

(04:52):
And I started doing thatbecause the cost of shipping
gear since the pandemic hasalmost tripled.
Since the pandemic has almosttripled.
So we decided to build out asecond set of production boxes,
work boxes, all this other stuff, wardrobe cases that we leave

(05:14):
over there.
Because you know, if you ship aham and b3 from the us to
europe and back, you'vepurchased said ham and b3.
So we just decided to buy asecond one and leave it over
there.
So it's, it's more efficient.
But I send the rig, I send thesecond rig over and, um, it's
just as loud.

(05:34):
So nobody has to worry aboutthat.
It's just as obnoxious and loud, and and and.
So a second rig goes over thereand and and it comes back, um,
it comes back, uh, I think inseptember, and so it does the
whole, it'll do the whole summer, because I I don't like to
leave guitars over there andstuff just sitting in the cold,

(05:55):
and you know right, some storagelayer yeah so I, I like to get,
get, get all the kids back atthe end of the year, parcel them
out, and then, you know, westart again.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
Excellent so do you?
Is it?
Is it pretty consistent withwhat you're using in the states?
I mean, or do you like?
Hey, I'm going to bring thisstuff and I'll kind of maybe
I'll lean towards a littledifferent material because I'm
bringing over this different rigyeah, I had to.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
Guitar wise, I actually brought I try to bring
two, two of everything you knowa primary guitar and then a
backup, in case you know.
So there's two sgs, two, lesspauls, two, three, three, fives.
Um, because of the blackcountry communion, uh, reunion,
I, I decided that, uh, um, I wasgoing to bring a less paul
junior.
Oh nice, I was going to like,yeah, I'm going to rock out a

(06:45):
little bit and also the juniorwill clean up better.
At some of these kind of hardrock festivals we're playing
with Black Country Communion, incase they start throwing mud at
me and anything that theydecide, you know, to throw on
the stage, because you know, ifthey don't like the way I'm
playing, they throw things sointeresting.

(07:07):
So the junior, the junior isgoing to take the brunt of that.
Um, but you know, I meanthere's there's always two
tallies, two strats, and I senta whole another group of strats
over for the rory gallagherthing, including my green, uh
that's one of course I go.
This guitar has ireland writtenall over it yes, perfect it's

(07:28):
like it's like the irish springcommercial.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
It's like it just, it's just, it just you know,
what's interesting about the uh,the rory situation is that you
know, a lot of what I got intowas influenced by my brother's
record collection and then Ikind of kind of connected the
dots from there and rory wasnever in that thing, and then I
would hear stuff here and thereas I was growing up and then
doing my own thing and so on andso forth and I was like that's

(07:53):
cool.
But you know, I'm already intothis guy and this guy and this
guy and anyway, so make a longstory.
I mean, it wasn't only untillike maybe 20 years ago I was
playing in Germany somewhere andthese two Irish guys flew over
to see us because we didn't haveanything booked in Ireland.
So they came over, said we'rebig fans, we wanted to come and
see you and we wanted to giveyou, because they had heard

(08:16):
somewhere along the line that Iwas never really into Rory, just
because I just never was.
And they gave me a copy of that.
You know, the live 74 tour thingand then I got it and I love
the songs.
Of course I love the way thathe plays and but I just love the
tunes.
I love the vibe.
You know, he kind of I don'tknow if you how you feel about

(08:37):
it, but he's he kind of remindsit's like the irish roy buchanan
in a way his approach on theinstrument.
You know what I?

Speaker 2 (08:45):
mean, yeah, the pinch harmonics that he's kind of
leaned on and you know, doingthe deep dive.
Donald and Daniel invited me todo this and they had a few
guitar players in mind and theywanted to pay tribute to Rory.
This year would be the 30thanniversary of his passing in
1995.

(09:05):
And they wanted to do a tributeand they, they, they went down
a list.
This year will be the 30thanniversary of his passing in
1995.
And they wanted to do a tributeand they, they went down a list
.
They asked a couple of peoplethat are much higher pay grade
who respectfully declined.
And then then I get a call andthey're like, hey, do you want
to do this thing in Cork?
And I go, yeah, no problem,right.
And I hang up the phone and Igo, yeah, that's going to be a

(09:30):
be a real big challenge, youknow, because it's like he was,
he was intense, he, he had, hehad so many, he just would, he
had so much energy, right, andthose songs, the way he
delivered them.
And I finally said, when we didthe press rollout and I already
flew over the cork and we didthat, we played like three songs
and I finally said I, I'm, youknow there's, there's rory

(09:50):
galler tribute guys that do that.
You know, kind of like.
You know, queen has a tributeband and the eagles and right
they dress the part and they andthey and they anorak the shit.
You know they go.
Well, you know this is, this isthe, the uh, the version from
the cork opera house 1973.
And like I'm not going to doany of that because I can't, you

(10:11):
know, I I'm not rory, you know,but I can do your own thing
with it doing my own thing andand, and you know I can only do
what I do in in the bestpossible, with the best possible
intentions and in the spirit.
You know it's like saying youknow, do a jimmy hendrix tribute
show, it's like nobody'shendrix right.
You know it's like and why, ifyou're gonna do sound alike

(10:32):
stuff, we already have theoriginal version exactly, and so
.
So that's, that's gonna be mysummer and and I'm really
looking forward to it.
You know we've, we've, we'vebeen to europe so many times.
You know it and it's and it'slike it never gets old.
It's always an adventure, it isit is always fun over there I

(10:52):
churches I, although I I'vestopped visiting some of the the
same churches and steeples ofof yesteryear you know.
I mean I've gone up the spiralstaircase, I've got the vertigo
right at all, you know, and I'mlike but you like to go for
strolls?

Speaker 1 (11:08):
I love, I love going for strolls over there, just
going out and walking throughthe countryside, because there's
they actually have like walkingpaths everywhere.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yes, well, the thing with Europe they never got away
from the city center concept.
Right, like you know, america,the, you know, travel around
america and there is alwaysthose old downtowns that are
just completely abandoned orlike a vape shop and you know
whatever.
But in europe, the, the wholecommunity still revolves around

(11:38):
the city center.
So you could, you could walkfor hours and there's shops, and
you know, they never got thestrip mall concept that we've so
embraced here in America.
Come on, it's like how manytimes in America you just travel
through these towns and it'slike there's a strip mall and
like, yep, there's a TexasRoadhouse, there's a Guitar

(12:00):
Center, right, there's JoanneFabrics, exactly.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
They're on the way out.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
Oh, I heard, when am I going to get the Velcro for
the pedal boards?
There you go.
It's crazy, but you know what Imean.
It's like each town in Americahas kind of lost its identity
because we've strip malled it,right, I agree.
And then now all the stripmalls and malls are closing.
So now it's left.
It's like it's just going to bean Amazon Depot oh good Lord

(12:28):
and a Chick-fil-A.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
Well, you know, one of the things about Europe too
that's fun which I, some people,just don't understand, is the
German breakfast.
It's just the delicious coldcuts with those warm rolls and I
get there and I just can't waitto wake up in the morning and
have and have breakfast, whichis really lunch.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
It is lunch and and for me it's so counterintuitive
to how I roll on, the like whenI, when I'm home, I wake up kind
of early.
I wake up like seven, 30 in themorning and I'm like you know,
but when I'm on tour, especiallyat night, after the gig, it's
like like before noon is off thetable, you know, because I'm

(13:13):
trying to hit that apex curve ateight o'clock and and you know
so, but the German breakfast, itgets me up.
Yeah, Like you know, it's likewhat time you serving breakfast,
and my band loves it toobecause it's part of the hotel.
Yes, it's baked in.
You know exactly.
And and there's been many atimes in in america where some

(13:37):
members of saying, like of mygroup gone, I have two eggs, an
english muffin, an orange juiceand a, a coffee.
It was $75.
I'm like it ain't Germany.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
That's right, you know, listen, what's crazy about
Germany is that, even if it's acheap hotel, the breakfast is
happening.
It's happening.
It's not like when you say it'sa cheap hotel in the States
where it's just like you getthis continental offering.
It's like for real.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
It's like powdered eggs, you know.
And it's like powdered eggs andcountry time, lemonade and
orange juice mix, right.
And then the boxes you'll seein the back of the hotels
there's boxes and they'restenciled.
You know, us Department ofCorrections, right.
This is true, loaded in.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
Let me ask you something just about practicing
and stuff.
I mean, what kind of stuff doyou like to work on?
I mean, I play along withrecords all the time still.
You know, I'll just be like youknow, I haven't played along
with so-and-so and I'll do thatand I might learn some more.
But I'm just curious, what isyour take?
I mean obviously you.
I mean obviously you're.
You're working, and you'reworking on new songs and working

(14:49):
on repertoire, working for thisRory thing and so on and so
forth, but for the fun of it,what are you working on?

Speaker 2 (15:06):
You know I, I like to like when I come home off off
the tour, the last thing I wantto listen to is blues rock.
Like it's just plumbers don'twant to fix pipes on their day
off.
You know it's like that's whatI do.
I do blues rock.
So I like playing along to likeBruce Hornsby records.
You know, like stuff with likemore adult changes than I'm used
to and you know, trying tofigure out, okay, okay, how do I
play over these changes?
And you know just little thingsand I, you know I have, you

(15:27):
know I live in a house ofguitars.
You know I mean, you know Ijust pray there's no earthquake
because I'll be killed by You'llbe bludgeoned.
Yeah, but so one of the thingsthat I like to do is, for me, is
I just kind of zone out.
I have a little speaker in thecorner of this room next to the

(15:49):
train wreck here and and I and Ibasically just bluetooth
something.
Right, I play at very lowvolume, which is once again
you've been on our stage manytimes counter counterintuitive
to what everybody thinks.
I play at super low volume, um,because this guy does not like
crowds or loud music.
It's just so such an oxymoron.

(16:13):
But but I, I basically I play atlow volumes and sometimes I I
stumble upon new stuff andsometimes, if I'm just
retreading the same old path, Iput it down and I and I don't
play for a day or two and thenI'll, then I'll pick it up and I
play a lot of acoustic guitarswhich I don't play, you know,

(16:34):
and I find that that just kindof keeps the road chops up a
little bit, a little moreresistance, you know.
And but you know,intrinsicallyically I'm an
electric guitar player, so youknow, it's as long as the tone's
right, and I, you know feelingit and you know it's just like
break out a strat or a telly orless paul, and, and just see

(16:56):
what I can get out of it.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
You know right so with your, your arsenal of so
many glorious instruments, Imean, obviously you have your
favorites, but have you noticedlike freakish examples of like,
especially like the iconicinstruments you know, like of
your old burst last pause?

(17:18):
It's like, yeah, they're allpretty good, this one's like,
but this one it's got.
The supernatural thing is, isit like that or are they all
kind of in the wheelhouse?

Speaker 2 (17:27):
No, I mean when you're talking about like a
Summers Les Paul, they all varyand some of the ones that I have
, a lot of my collection not alot of people see because it's
especially on stage, it's verymint, it's very well-preserved,
all original.
That's what I collect.
You know what I play is thestuff that sounds great, you

(17:49):
know right, and you know thestuff that I put frets on and
and and you know and with.
When you talk about it, like,like I always say, the best
sunburst les paul you'll everplay is a 335, ah, but like a
1960, they tend with the shorterneck tenons and especially when

(18:09):
you get into the later sixtiesthey tend to have more.
In my opinion, the classic burstsound you know like the English
burst sound like.
You know like like Clapton hada 60, you know he bought it from
Andy Summers and they tend tobe biters.
And sometimes when you get thebigger necks on 58s and 59s, I

(18:30):
mean again, it's a case-per-casebasis they tend to they don't
have the chime Right, but I willshow you one.
Yes, please.
This is the one they're going tobury me in.
This is my favorite.
This is Principal Skinner.
Okay, and how it got its name?

(18:53):
Well, I'm a big Simpsons fan,but this was known as the
Skinner Burst among collectorsin the early 2000s and it was
consigned to the Skinner AuctionHouse in Boston and that's
where it was sold and my friendbought it and he sold it to me
in 2010, 2011,.

(19:14):
Sorry, and like this was knownas the Skinnerverse, and I said,
well, I'll just slap aprincipal Skinner sticker on the
case and we have a.
We now have a name right andI've owned it for almost 15
years and this one doeseverything as a les paul.
Should it, doesn't it?
It?
It matters, not that it's a1959, it just doesn't.

(19:37):
It doesn't matter, it could bean 89.
This, as a les paul, is gotthat perfect.
The front pickup has got thatlike really kind of hollow,
almost straddy thing, like youknow, bruce Conti, that tower of
power, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'mmiddle.
The middle position is greatfor rhythms and it and it does

(19:59):
that, it does that, doesn't dothe Jimmy page quack, but it
does that really cool like justmiddle position, gibson, and the
treble pickup is the bestbalance of biting and moaning
that I know.
You know some of them moan andit's just like man, there's not
enough poke on the note Rightand some are way too bright.
This one has the best balance.

(20:20):
And this one, you know it's beenplayed, it was a big belt
buckle on, you know, and that'smy favorite.
And when this was sold in 2006,it set the record at the time,
which has now been shatteredmany times.
It set the record for thehighest price ever paid for a

(20:42):
non-celebrity guitar.
Oh, no shit.
And it was on the cover of amagazine and the guy who
consigned it with um uh, skinnerauction house, his father gave
him.
His father was the originalowner and gave him the guitar.
He played it and when heretired from the as a chief of

(21:02):
police in benton Minnesota, hewanted, he asked his father
permission to sell the guitarbecause he knew it was valuable
and he wanted to buy a log cabinon the lake as part of his
retirement.
This guitar turned into a logcabin on the lake and yeah, and
it's.
It's just a great Les Paul.

(21:22):
And one of the most importantthings is because, you know, in
certain circles I'm known aslike the king corksniffer, but
it doesn't matter what year itis.
Any guitar that speaks to you,it can be made two days ago or
60, you know, 65 years ago,doesn't matter, 66 years ago,

(21:43):
doesn't matter.
If it speaks to you and itmakes you reach for it, makes
the right hand reach for it,that's your car Totally.
And I try, I have to.
You know, for years, when Ifirst started playing the
Sunburst stuff live, it wouldplay me because I would look
down and I'm like you know, likeyou know, making sure I'm not

(22:05):
like you know.
Now I just grab them and playRight, right, they're not out
here to be preserved.
You know, and, and you know,this one here has a little ding
on the wall.
It's got a lot of things, butit has a little ding right here
on the top Probably can't see itand it's the John Hyatt scratch
2011.
When I got it and John Hyatt wasnice enough to come for two

(22:26):
nights at the Beacon theater inNew York city and he sang, um,
he sang a couple of songs forour DVD and, and at the end of
the second night, I just go,ladies and gentlemen, john Hyatt
, and he's got a J 200 with, uh,you know, strings poking out
and goes to give me a hug andthe headstock hits the top of
this thing and puts a littledick in it.

(22:47):
It's a John Hyatt scratchPerfect.
And at the time people weresaying, you know, some of the,
some of the older kind ofsunburst guys and vintage guys
were saying, hey, listen man, wesee you're playing like a real
59 on the road.
You know, every scratch you putin it takes a thousand dollars
off the value.
And I said, well, if I put 265scratches on it, does it work

(23:10):
nothing, right, exactly?
I'm like what kind of fuckinglogic is that?
Right, you know?
And and so, yeah, there's stufflike this.
And then there's stuff that's,you know, looks like it was made
yesterday, like this thisroom's full of surprises, oh,
there you go.
This is a really perfectlypreserved TV junior from 57, you

(23:34):
know that got a big neck on it.
It got the big neck on it andyou know some days it stays in
tune and some days it's likedon't even bother looking at it,
you know.
So there's like this is what Icollect, that's what I play, you
know.
But I try to surround myself,you know.
You know I mean the peoplewe've had film crews document my

(23:59):
mental illness.
You know, and and and hoardingfor for many years now should be
no shock to anyone that myhouse, when you come into my
house here in la um, even thoughafter the fires I evacuated
about a hundred things out ofhere but uh, it kind of looks

(24:20):
some to the hoarder in me, itlooks like I got robbed but it's
still way too much you know,and, and you know, the thing is,
I'll, I'll show you, it's'll,show you, it's.
The room keeps going, oh yeah.
And then you know there's that,and then all these and all the

(24:43):
pedals, you know.
So I'm nothing if notconsistent, and I don't
apologize for it.
There's been many years wherepeople are like going, you know,
blah, blah, blah, blah.
You know, why don't you, whydon't you save some for the rest
of us?
I'm like I don't buy it.
And it just there's thousandsof guitars for sale today.
Sure, yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
I mean, even if they're not, collectors have 20,
you know you know you're stilla a young lad, but do you, do
you think about an exit strategyat some point of?
Well, when I get to this point,I'm going to do, maybe do this
with all of this stuff.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
Well, I have to, you know.
I mean, when you become aguitar collector of this kind of
severity and I'm like justdon't do this, kids, don't do
this to yourself when you becomea guitar collector of this,
this, whatever level you have, II feel I have a responsibility

(25:40):
to my friends and the guitarcollecting community to say,
like if I, if I walked in herein this house alone and said you
know what I'm sick of lookingat tweed fender amps, I'm just I
can't.
It's like I'm allergic to them,right, and I said let's sell
them all.
Just here, within 50 feet ofwhere I'm sitting, there's 125

(26:06):
all in mint condition.
Yeah, I'll sell the first 40quick and then the values will
go down.
So in certain tranches of thisthing I have the ability to
adversely affect the market.
Yeah, and I go.
If I ever decided I was notinterested in these anymore, I

(26:26):
have 16.
You can't put 16 up for saleall at the same time.
So the exit strategy will haveto be very measured and
deliberate because of how vastit is.
There's like 1,200 pieces inthe collection between guitars

(26:46):
and amps's.
You just can't put it all outfor sale.
You know, if I get hit by a bus, my niece and nephew are going
to do the big auction and andpeople are going to buy it all
and I don't care what they getfor it, and and they'll, you
know, the, the, the, the live afull and happy life, and anybody

(27:07):
who gets anything too cheap atthat auction, I'm going to haunt
from beyond the grave.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
Is it true that you said that if you think I'm bad,
you should see Rick Nielsen?
Is he more of a hoarder thanyourself?
He's kind of a buddy of mine.
I've not been to his place yet,but we've played together a bit
, but I've not been to his house.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
Rick is one of the reasons why I did this.
I got his book like we is oneof the reasons why I did this.
I got his book like we all didin the nineties Right and and
when I was doing you know comingup and I was opening up for
cheap trick and and you know I'dsee a sunburst, les Paul and
all this iconic old stuff in therack and I'm like going he uses

(27:48):
it.
He's been a real inspirationfor a lot of people who are
going what am I saving it for?
Now he's got stuff that gotstashed away and he's proud of
and, like me, doesn't want to,you know, take it out and beat
it up.
But you know, I look at it as acollector.
I look at it from the point ofview is it's functioning art

(28:10):
Americana?
I look at it from the point ofview is it's functioning art
Americana?
Everything in this room wasmade in America and that's every
screw and pickup and tuning keyand it's functioning art.
I don't look at it like stocks.
I know some people that getinto it hot and heavy, come in
and they're like we hear theseare great investments.

(28:31):
You have to get your headaround it like one day.
This could be worth zero right,but it does still make you
happy right yeah, yeah, I gotyou, you know.
And if you're not happy, thenyou have to find that that cold,
dark, empty spot in your soul.
Address that with, with, withpsychotherapy.

(28:51):
Right, this is.
This is years of pent up, like,like, like this could have all
been avoided if I just went totherapy.
And this is what happened.
And and don't do this, don't dothis to yourself not good.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
So I was going to ask you about, you know, as, as we
kind of, you know, we're not,none of us are getting any
younger, right, and we look backand kind of music we're into
and it's it's unusual that, uh,you know, roots-oriented music
blues rock, you name it hasmaintained a level of popularity

(29:38):
.
Well, I make this analogy.
It's like, you know, my parentswere World War II people and
they did not, you know, theythought our music was noise.
You know what I mean.
It's like when I was growing upand I was and playing stuff, I
was like listen to that noise.
I mean they, like you know mydad would go see big bands back
in the day, uh and uh, it wasinto trini lopez, I guess was

(30:01):
his pop, you know thing that hewas into.
Um, but by comparison, when youlook the period of time from,
okay, they were in their 20s andthe 40s, and then you know 20
years later they were in theirtwenties and the forties, and
then you know 20 years laterthey're totally divorced from
what the kids are into.
But by the same token, how manypeople are kind of playing
stuff that I mean, look at theZeppelin movie.

(30:21):
How many people are going outand seeing the Zeppelin?
We're like, oh my God, theseguys were great.
All that stuff is still quasicontemporaneous, right, and I'm
just wondering what yourthoughts are is how long is that
going to last you?

Speaker 2 (30:35):
know what I mean, you know what's, you know.
What's interesting to me is howwe're still talking about jimmy
hendrix.
You know, the bob dylan moviewas one of the most popular
movies, yeah, you know.
And it was set in what?
1962.
Yeah, greenwich Village and themusic that happened between
1960 and 1975.

(30:58):
Let's just use it Right.
You know, has stood the test oftime.
And and you know, the classicsare the classics, but people are
still hip and cool and love,love them.
Some led zeppelin, you know,and, and nobody's, you know,
very few people still look backwith, with, with longing and

(31:20):
going.
Man, I wish that jitterbugwould come back and not to say
that that lewis, armstrong andall that stuff wasn't timeless
classics, you know, is it?
And what I think now, whatgives me hope, is that I see a
cast and a group of young people, both male and female, playing

(31:41):
at a level that I could haveonly wished at, wished I had the
skills when I was 15 and 16.
And I was, and I kind of wentdown the rabbit hole.
I'm like, well, how are thesekids getting so good so fast?
And I said, the good thingabout the internet is the
information is right here, right, it's all the way you want to
learn how to play rivieraparadise.

(32:03):
You want to learn how to playthis.
You want to learn how to playthat.
It's all there, right, and theynever had to put nickels and
dimes on on needles and shovethem back.
You know 16 bars and go, whatis that?
And then you know you'reslowing the thing down.
You know, now they have thetechnology to like, you can slow
something down in real, in realtime, exactly In tune, yeah, in

(32:26):
tune, and that's amazing.
And you know, look at howpopular the Grateful Dead's
music is now it's arguably aspopular as it's ever been.
Right, true, and I was never adeadhead and didn't go down that
rabbit hole, but, but, but,you're, but you're sitting there
, going, well, a whole newgeneration is discovering this,

(32:47):
this music.
So to your question I don'tthink it's going to last forever
, but I think to every, everytime music gets too canned,
manipulated, auto-tuned and andand AI'd, there's going to be an
equal and opposite reactionwhere, where there's still

(33:08):
people that want to see no netlive music singing, right and
and something organic andmechanical.
You know it's like, why isvinyl back?
Well, it's mechanical, it's abinary thing, people, people,
what you know?
A stick shift in a car.
Most people don't know how todrive a four-speed, but if you
collect old cars like like anair-cooled Porsche with a

(33:31):
factory four-speed, that's avaluable car.
Why it's because it'smechanical and you get maybe air
conditioning, maybe heat and acouple of buttons.
Now the cars are smarter thanwe are.
True, you know what I meanDriving for us and you take it
to an extreme on one side.
Take it to extreme on the otherside, and that's why it's still
kind of relevant.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
Yeah, I mean we were talking last time we were in the
same room about just this wholeidea of you know so many, even
some of the iconic artists thatare left around touring from
that kind of grail period, areplaying along with ancillary
tracks and to grids and stufflike that, because it it uh

(34:16):
lends a level of quality totheir performance that has kind
of become what I guess I don'twant to say the boomers, that
they want to hear it exactly howit was in the record, which is
interesting because the liveversions is what we all would
look forward to when we wereyounger to see how are they
going?
to pull this shit off live.
But now it's kind of twisted alittle bit where they they don't

(34:38):
know.
I want to hear it on the record, like it was on the record.
And if you veer, they're kindof they kind of feel like
they're getting, uh, you knowthey're making their money's
worth yeah, and and the.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
The problem, you know is, is like the worst thing I
ever did in a live performance.
The worst habit I ever got intowas in 2014.
We were in between tours and wehad these three shows booked,
one at Red Rocks and then twowarm-up shows, and we were
recording a DVD called MuddyWolf.
Yep, my little tribute to MuddyWaters and Holland Wolf Put

(35:09):
them all together Half theshow's Muddy, half the show's
Holland Wolfe, and then theencore was the ballad of John
Henry and to the wee, wee hours,and we had three days of
rehearsal.
It was 17 new songs.
I'm trying to cram lyrics intomy brain and you know, and I'm
like, well, I'm just gonna haveto put some cheat sheets down,
and then my then productionmanager goes you don't have to

(35:31):
do that, I got you.
Next thing, you know, at firstrehearsal there's a screen and
these green letters Song numberone Tiger in your Tank, and
there's the lyrics, right, and Igo, okay, cool, we'll use it
for these songs, we'll use itfor these three shows.
But whatever, next thing, youknow, hey, you still got that

(36:01):
teleprompter.
And it's the worst habit in theworld because I should know the
lyrics to slow jit.
I should know the lyrics.
I've sang it 2 000 times.
But once you, once you crossthat, once you accept the help,
sometimes it's impossible to goback.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
It's like a map app on your phone.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
Yeah, how did we ever make it to gigs without a
sat-nav in the car?
Exactly, you know, it's like,yeah, we had MapQuest or we had
a Rand McNally, yeah, and it waslike and you're with the
highlighter.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
Right, I remember printing out know all the map,
quest things and having mylittle odometer going okay and
point not.
You know what I'd have.
I'd click it though I'd lookfor my tour.
You know, turn I get your point.
Yeah, you know but it's not youknow, and I, I guess it's.
It's one of those things whereif people are enjoying what
they're going to see, I guess itdoesn't really matter.

(36:49):
In terms of those who lean onother things other than just a
teleprompter, you know what Imean, like actual they're not
actually singing in their lip,syncing and so on and so forth.
You know, I, I guess I'm if, ifpeople dig it, I'm fine with it
.
But to the other point is whenthey see people actually just
playing and wing it they can,there's magic.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
That happens when you , when there's chaos at hand,
yeah, I mean, I don't want tosound like an a grumpy old man,
but I will because you know Ilike everybody, you know doom
scrolls during the day, you knowon instagram and all the social
media, and like you've seen allthese clips from coachella and
and some of the modern pop.

(37:30):
It's like they're not eventhey're not even singing.
Like the lead vocal is goingright and the mic is like out
here.
It's like they're not eventrying.
It's like it's like, you know,like you know, just for the
children Humor me Right, exactly, put the mic up to your face,
right, and I think if people arecool with that, then what do I

(37:52):
have to say about it?
But it's, it's to the pointwhere you're like a live show is
not really a live show, it's.
It's a more of like a spectacle.
It's.
It's you're seeing people danceand and, and you know, no real
instruments were harmed.
It's hard for me to go to or seea clip or see a show with a

(38:15):
band that has no amps on stage.
The drummer is in some sort oflike you know, hyperbaric
chamber, right exactly, and youknow where they have to lower
the air pressure so much that nosound will escape this pod much
that no sound will escape thispod.
And and the next thing, youknow, you hear the out front mix

(38:35):
and those background vocals andall the there's.
There's six guitar tracks goingand there's one dude playing
and you're like, first of all,those vocals are more in tune
than the beatles at shea stadium, right, and and and I'm like,
how's this guy playing sixtracks at once?
And I'm like I don't even know.
I don't even know what's liveand what's not live.
And I would bet a lot of moneythat the peep, that the

(38:58):
participants on stage in thebacking band, don't know what
the what's actually beingbroadcast in the front of house.
Right, you know what I mean.
Going, hey, I was playing andthey're like your fader's gone,
like put up the can track.
You know, I mean it's it.
It's like the front house guyhas complete control over
everything and what they'rehearing in their earbuds it

(39:21):
could be diametrically opposedto reality, right, and it's,
it's, it's a way of doing it,you know, but it's, it's not the
way I like to do it, and atleast somewhat, you know.
You know I try to keep it, tryto just keep it more honest on
our stage.
You know, it's like.

(39:41):
It's like, man, if I make themistake.
That's what people love is whenyou right is when the string
breaks and you, you mess up andI'm in the wrong key, or I drop
a verse, or I you know, or youknow I get off A human element.
Yeah, and the band goes rightwith me and they're all smiling.
I always turn around andthey're all laughing.
I go, I know, I know, but we're, we survived?

(40:02):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
We interrupt this regularly scheduled gristle
infested conversation to give aspecial shout out to our friends
at Fishman Transducers, makersof the Greg Koch signature
Fluence Gristle Tone pickup setCan you dig that?
And our friends at WildwoodGuitars of Louisville, colorado,
bringing the heat in the shadowof the Rocky Mountains.

(40:25):
So I mean you know you got thisbig tour coming up.
I mean, things have been goingreally well for quite a while
now and you know the venues thatyou're playing are the cool
venues and all the differentplaces.
I mean, are you at this pointsatisfied with your ability to

(40:47):
maintain what you're doing withyour ability?
to maintain what you're doing,keep on putting out new music
and maintaining this level ofcurrent notoriety, which is
massive.
Or is there something you'relike yeah, but I haven't done X,
y and Z and I really want to dothat.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
Nah, you know what, In 2006, when it just started to
start drawing a crowd over inEurope and it was just starting
to draw a crowd here I justlooked around and I said I never
thought I would get this far.
Then, in 2009, 2010, the PBSthing exploded and I was like,
oh my God, and I thought Iworked hard getting up to that

(41:26):
point.
I was like, oh my God, I neverhad the Sir Edmund Hillary
complex, I don't need to plantmy flag on top of mount everest.
I'm happy with base camp andand because sometimes you know,
if you, the people that in theircareer is going, I really want
a number one hit, or I reallygot to have that, whatever and

(41:48):
that, that milestone, sometimesyou achieve that, that you hit
the apex curve and then thedescent is right, way more
radical, right, I'd rather keepit.
You know, keep it at 15 000 feet, right, I'm with you I
understand and and take theturbulence as it ebbs and flows,

(42:08):
but still maintain altitude asopposed to go.
Well, we just had the biggestyear ever and now I don't know
why there's nobody here, right,right, and that happens.
You see it a lot.
You see that happen in thecountry world.
You see that happen in the popworld, where you know people
with enough Instagram followersto you know declare themselves

(42:30):
king or queen of any country.
You know, I have a hard timeselling tickets.
You know, like well, whathappened.
The audience moves on and itdoesn't grow with you Because
you've, you've, you've reachedout to an audience that tends to
move on right as opposed tosticking with an artist or or
having a personal connection.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
Right, so I like to my.
My motto is I don't needmillions, I just need enough
yeah, I mean I've achievedeverything that I.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
I've set my, I've played every venue.
I've always, always wanted toplay.
I can't believe it.
You know what I mean.
You know, if I did the alberhall one time, I I could tell,
tell I could still go to, to, tomusic events going.
Yeah, I remember that time Iplayed the Albert Hall Well,
that was 16 years ago Like yeah,but I still did.
It happened.
I never thought I played it 13times.

(43:20):
Right, it's like it's gone waybeyond what I thought and way
beyond what most logical peoplewould have said, including
myself to myself logical peoplewould have said, including
myself to myself.
Right, it's like weird last namewiggly, wigglies, too much.
You know.
Speaking voice like Kermit theFrog tries to sound like Paul

(43:41):
Rogers singing, fails at that.
Something connected.
You know what I mean.
And that's why we say to thetrolls the people are like
you're overrated.
Sure, aren't we all the trolls?
The people are like you'reoverrated, sure, aren't we all?
I said somebody likes this shit.
Right, exactly Nine millionrecords.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
Exactly Somebody.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
somebody's enjoying what's going on and I told that
to a guy from a reallysuccessful band at a hotel.
My band was staying at a hotel,my band was staying and I was
having dinner with the lategreat Michael Rhodes and and
just just having dinner at thebar.
And we're just sitting thereand and this, this gentleman

(44:20):
comes up from a very successfulrock band and that that tends to
get a lot of hate online andand the conversation came.
It's like it conversation waslike so cool musicians like he's
talking to michael and I, hegoes, well, musicians like you
don't like, like, like peoplelike me and my band.

(44:40):
I said absolutely, you'reabsolutely wrong.
I said you're looking at itfrom the wrong perspective.
I said I go, I do big theaters,what do you, what do you play?
Because when we play arenas, Igo, are they full?
Because, yeah, somebody likesthis shit.
Right, be happy, exactly.
Worry, don't make music for the10 10 of your friends make.
Make it for the 10 000 peoplethat show up every night and and

(45:02):
and you know what, if that'syour lot in life, we're, we
should all be that.
Luck, right, don't.
Don't let that those seeds likegestate and and and it just
you're assuming because we playroots music, not active rock
that we look down upon.
It's like that's you're wrong.

(45:23):
I actually, I actually I said Ireally dig your songwriting, I
really really dig the voice, Ireally you know.
And he and he walked away.
Um, I thought, walked away, Ibought him a martini and he
walked away like I go.
That was that was a niceexchange, I, I hope.
I hope his perspective.
And later tonight I heard thathe jumped in from one of the
villas into the pool and gotkicked out of the hotel,

(45:46):
probably from the martini Ibought.
I'll reveal the name in my book.
It was.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
It was surreal, yeah you've got a chance to play with
a lot of you know your heroesand so on and so forth.
I mean, the clapton thing wasobviously, yeah, you know a
massive thing and you've toldthat story, I believe, last time
we were on here.
But have you maintained anykind of relationship with him,
or is it just he just kind ofdoes his own thing, or every now

(46:16):
and again you're like, hey,what's going on?

Speaker 2 (46:19):
I don't abuse the privilege, gotcha, he will.
He will get back to me.
Yeah, text him.
I text him on the anniversaryof the show that he did and I
always say say, I text him onhis birthday and I always say
happy birthday.
You know, hope you're well, joeb, and I text him on the
anniversary of of may 4th everyevery year and I always text him

(46:40):
the same thing thank you forchanging my life.
You didn't have to do that, butit did change my life.
Yeah, and and very rarely arethe cameras on when somebody's
life changes career-wise in realtime.
And that was my moment.
And I said everybody, they'llask me what were you thinking

(47:02):
when he walked out?
I said, well, a, it wasn'trandom.
You could see the little tweedtwin.
We knew he was coming.
He just didn't pop by.
I invited him, him, and I'vetold this story many times and
he walked out in the fifth songand everybody goes what were you
thinking at that moment?
And I tried to.

(47:23):
I tried to spin this thing intosome profound statement about,
you know, perseverance anddedication and the 10 000 hour
theory.
But, to be honest with you, youknow what I was thinking at
that moment when he walked out,I just shook my head I go, I
can't believe I pulled this shitoff right and and it was such a

(47:46):
, it was such a validation.
He was like going, all right,I'm giving you, I've given you
the shot, right and and cause, Ithink, enough of what you're
doing, I'm giving you the shot.
And that was my moment.
And and I said, well, a brokenwatch could be right twice a day
, but it's my job to work hardernow.

(48:07):
And when the DVD came out, itwasn't a hit right away, it was.
It was more of like it wasdoing well.
And then, when PBS picked it up, two things happened.
My crowds quadrupled in theStates overnight, and two in a
really strange way because theyI saw the PBS edit and you could

(48:29):
hear clearly hear me talk andintroduce Eric Clapton in a
clearly definable upstate NewYork accent.
Everybody thought I was BritishFor years.
They thought I was British andI meet people in the meeting
room and they're like you're notBritish, I go, never said I was
.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
Oh, that's hysterical .

Speaker 2 (48:46):
I don't get an honorary Brit Award because I
play the Albert Hall.
It's like I'm like I'm fromUtica, new York, right, and I'm
like it was people I go listen,I don't care why you're here and
what you thought, but this is.
You know, thank you for coming,and that's, that's been my
attitude.
And you know, I've seen myaudience grow with me and I've

(49:07):
challenged them and I've I'vechallenged myself, and it's not
all been gold, because whenyou're taking risks and you're
doing things, and musically, asdiverse as we go, sometimes that
it's not all a home run, youknow, sure, but if you do it
with the right intentions, it'llcertainly, it certainly bears
fruit.
And then you know, oh, thatdidn't work, we're never playing

(49:30):
that one again, and just itnever happened.
You know that didn't work,we're never playing that one
again, and just just neverhappened.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
You know it seems like you and Josh have a really
good groove going on.

Speaker 2 (49:38):
And how?

Speaker 1 (49:38):
how has that whole thing I mean, josh is obviously
a magnificent musician and agreat dude and so on and so
forth, but how has that justmade things, I don't know, more
fun for you having having afriend and someone obviously I
respect, with you as your kindof partner in crime?

Speaker 2 (49:55):
You know, josh Smith and I, you know we've known each
other for years and and when Iwas, we were coming out of COVID
and I was like I want to changethe band a little bit, and and
and you know, I, I really wantto bring on a rhythm guitar
player because it just, it justallows the catalog.
I can grow the catalog and Idon't have to play and sing.

(50:16):
And I asked Josh, I was like,dude, you interested in this
thing?
And we had been producing somerecords together and and and he
was.
He was like, yeah, this wouldbe great.
And so I baptized Josh and andand our singer, jade McRae, and
Reese and I have never had theconversation, but he's also and

(50:40):
Calvin and Danny and Lamar, whoknows more about music than I do
.
They all are better than me, myentire band.
And I said, listen, okay, Ineed the modal police.
Ok, I need I.
I'm a blues guy at heart and II'll ram pentatonics into any,
any brick wall at any time,happy to do it.

(51:02):
You know I know enough to notdo the major minor clashes, but
it's been great because Joshreally has a good instinct about
arrangements if something'sgoing to work and something
doesn't in a live context and inthe studio it's always great to

(51:29):
you know, he and I kind of doteach other's I's and cross each
other's T's.
It's like he has a skill settease.
It's like he has a.
He has a skill set.
And then I have you like itsometimes in in the studio when
we're producing, when certainthings need to be said out loud.
That's my job you know, like youjust have to be.
You know, when producing analbum, I found it's like
sometimes you have to save theartist from things that may.
You know, the reason why we getcalled to do this is because a

(51:53):
lot of artists have said, hey,I've been doing the same thing
for 15 years and I want to dosomething different and I like
the way you know your eric galesrecords sound, or like your,
you know, larry mccray orwhatever, and and I'm like, okay
, well, let me, and I always, wealways have this conversation
with any artists that we work.
Let me tell you how we do it,and it may not be the same way

(52:15):
you've done it, but this is how,if you like this result, we can
deliver you this result.
If you just have a little faith.
And you know, having Josh thereis is is great, you know, and,
and you know what I, what I loveabout our band is is I try to
showcase the talent at leastonce a night throughout.

(52:37):
Reese is soloing all night,jade takes a solo, danny takes a
solo, calvin gets a bass break,lamar gets a drum break and
Josh solos at least four or fivetimes a night.
You know, at least four or fivetimes a night.
And and it's because it's greatfor the audience to see.
You know most of those people.

(52:58):
You know my two singers, joshreese I consider you know and
and and they're solo artists.
They made records right undertheir own name and they're in my
band and it's like it's.
I want to remind my audiencethat that they're.
They're not just hired guns,they're in my band and it's like
it's.
I want to remind my audiencethat that they're.
They're not just hired guns,they're actual.
I'm blessed to have soloartists that think enough of me

(53:19):
to be on the road.
You know, 200 days a year.
200 days a year, it's a hundredshows, it's about a hundred
shows, but you don't do them allin a row, right?
Unless you know.
I remember those.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
Klaus tours, we should do 13 in a row yeah, good
old klausy klaus.
I'll be seeing him again in thefall enduring.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
Those are endurance tests, not, not, not tours.
It's like, yeah, you know you,josh josh is over there after
this run.
Um, after the first solo tour,he's over there back touring in
Europe, I would say in the endof May, early June, while I'm

(54:02):
doing Black Country Communion.
He's like dude, he was like Idon't know what I'm going to do.
We land, we have a day off andthen I do 16 in a row.
I go, that's a young man's game.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
Oh yeah, I believe me , I, uh, yeah, and we've been
doing that kind of stuff in theStates and it's just me and my
son and Toby, and we drive, wedo the merge, we do everything,
but you know what it's.
Uh, luckily, the routing for usin the States is, is logical.
I mean, you're, you don't haveanything that's too far, drive
over there, man Klaus will fillin order to fill.

(54:35):
A Monday, tuesday, wednesday,you might be in Cologne one
night and then be, you know, allthe way on the other side of
Germany the next night, only toend up 10 miles away from where
you were the two nights before.
Right, and just because they ohwell, that's, you know, we got
a room where there was people,and you know hotel and food, and
there you go.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
Yeah, madrid to Zagreb didn't seem so far on the
map.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
But yeah, you know, this is the thing.
That again, why I feel soblessed is, you know we're able
to do it on a level, that whichyou know.
We promote our own shows, sothe routing is more controlled
in that way.
But you know the economics ofmaking it work.
You know it's like for anybodywho tours on any level.

(55:23):
I always say it's like this.
It's like the minute you landwith your band it's like putting
a whole bunch of hundred dollarbills into a 64 gallon drum and
then taking a shop vac, puttingit on high and sticking the
hose in there.
Yeah, and hopefully, by the timethe tour ends and you turn the
shop vac off, there's still somemoney left in the bottom of the

(55:45):
barrel, exactly because manytimes you go over there and work
crazy.
It just happened to me so manytimes you go over there and work
crazy.
It just happened to me so manytimes you work crazy and you
beat yourself up and yeah, youknow you're growing towards
something, but that's a hardpill to swallow when you go.
Wait a minute, I was better offbeing a member of my own band

(56:07):
than being the leader of it,Years like that.
Yeah, sure, the leader of ityears, years like that, yeah
sure, and, and, and now it's.
Now it's even worse because thepay, the guarantees haven't
gone up enough to adjust forinflation expenses, yeah, and
expenses, and it's like you knowI mean a comfort in is 189.

(56:27):
I'm like I remember when theywere $49.
Right, right.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
But you seem very, very smart in terms of.
I mean, I hear other artistswho, just you know they've had
this pinnacle of the money'scoming in.
Places are packed, so they getused to a certain level of, okay
, two buses, two trucks, and soon and so forth two buses, two
trucks, and so on and so forth.
But you seem to be veryconscious of, okay, this thing's
going to pay X amount, so Iknow I'm going to bring this

(56:55):
amount of stuff and always beingcognizant of that, would you
say that that's true?

Speaker 2 (56:59):
Yeah, you got to scale, and one of the advantages
of promoting your own shows isyou could see from the on sale
what the grosses are.
Right, like, every day.
We get updates Monday,wednesday, friday on shows and
you'll just see the grosses andthen you scale accordingly,
right, the mistake that a lot ofpeople make when it hits is

(57:23):
immediately because there'snobody to say no.
When you're in charge, there'snobody to say no, right, it's
like you know what I don't feellike being on a bus for for 12
hours, how much is the jet?
Oh, and nobody says, yeah, well, that's what.
It is, okay, great.
Well, when you get, and thenyou realize 10 years past the

(57:46):
salad years, right, so youreally would write that like was
that instagram photo in frontof that golf stream really worth
it?
Right, right, wouldn't yourather have that money like
tucked away for a rainy day?
Right, and you know it.
To me it's again, it's theclassic music business and what

(58:07):
my, my manager and I, roy, we'vebeen together 35 years and what
we've done is and we started tosee right off the bat was the
amount of money coming off thegross, not the net, and we we
tried to eliminate as much ofthe gross participation in for
other third parties is we couldFor years people go who's your

(58:35):
agent in the state?
We are right, you know.
I mean ron caplan doesspecialty gigs for us and he's
we've known him 25 years buthe's not the principal
day-to-day agent and we haveneil o'brien in in in london and
he and he manages a lot of theUK stuff and and all these
promoters that we used to workfor.
We now hire uh-huh for fee toto administer the gigs over in

(58:59):
Europe and we've had this greatrelationship over the last 15,
20 years.
And but when you start talkingabout if you make a thousand
dollars on a show and 20 percentgoes to the, to, to the, the,
you know 10 goes the agent, 20goes the manager, you know uh,
promoter's fee of five percentyou're looking at it 35 off of

(59:21):
the gross, sure, so, so, so youdidn't make a thousand dollars,
you made 650 dollars, right,okay, now you have to pay for
your hotels, your transportation, miscellaneous, and any bag of
dorito, you know, bag of doritos, that that you may quote,
unquote, have on your rider,which a lot of younger fans said
like don't ever walk into adressing room and say I can't

(59:41):
believe how generous this rideris right paying for it.
They're paying for it allexactly.
And and and I know this thisdiet coke is two dollars and 49
cents in los angeles because thetaxes are crushing.
Okay, this is 249's two, 49.
Okay, but when you, when you godown the line items at
settlement, you're like six packof diet Coke, $32.
You're like no, no, no, no, no.
It's like you control.

(01:00:03):
The more you can control theexpenses, the more that's left
over for you to.
And again, it's not aboutlining your pockets, it's it's
about reinvesting in yourbusiness and growing and
promotion and keeping the air inthe balloon.
Yes, indeed, there's a lot moreto it than just plugging in and

(01:00:27):
proceeding to rock.
A lot of times, the second wordin music business does not just
doesn't sink in until it'll sinkin when the money stops coming
in, right, or or when you people, people, you know, artists tend
to be like I don't know man, Ijust play guitar around here, I

(01:00:48):
don't know that's.
You know hell takes care of thebusiness, okay.
And then next thing's.
You know hell takes care of thebusiness, okay.
And then next thing, you know,you know a year or two down the
line when, when they figured outthere was nothing left for them
, right, oh and oh, the littlething called the IRS, right.
And next thing, you know you'retalking to them and they're,

(01:01:08):
they're, they're flexing Likeyou know, they're, they're,
they're a panelist on Shark Tank, right?
No, you don't get to.
I'm glad you saw the light, I'mglad you're starting to get
more control of your business,but you have and it's the tedium
Sometimes people say, well, Ihave to do it this way because

(01:01:37):
it's contingent on thisopportunity or these offers.
It's like, if you, if you buildyour fan base direct consumer,
you can, you don't.
There's.
Nobody should ever stand inyour way from where you want to
go, right.
If you're doing it direct toconsumer, if you're doing it
through third parties and allthe carrot dangling that happens
, then yeah, there's going to bea point in time when you sit
there and go.
You know what.
You know I'm not in control ofmy destiny and that's a bad

(01:02:02):
feeling.
And we've all been there, right, I'm not unique.
This was not an immaculateconception.
This was going europe and andand promoters that I knew going.
Hey, you were very expensive.
Tonight I go.
What are you talking aboutmaking like two grand.
He was like, no, no, you'remaking six grand.
I'm like, well, who got thefour right?
The person who bought and soldthe tour?

(01:02:23):
They made more than we did.
And I'm like, okay, and somepromoters will speak to you in a
condescending way, as if whatthey do to promote concerts is
tantamount to Blue Origin orSpaceX.
The complexity of promoting ashow is like landing a rocket on

(01:02:47):
a platform.
It really isn't format right,really isn't.
It just takes.
It takes a little bit of um, ittakes a little bit of business
savvy, not much.
But the most important thingabout doing that is the
willingness to bet on yourself.
Right, I get you and, and, andyou know.
It's like where do you want toplay?
How much?

(01:03:07):
How, how you know?
Are you tired of playing forticket prices that are less than
a movie?
Okay, well, you can controlthat, you know.
And promoters or club ownerswill say, well, if I lower the
price to eight euros or $10,like, I'll get 20 more people at

(01:03:27):
the show that are going todrink and buy mozzarella sticks,
well, you're not participatingin the paps blue ribbon or the
mozzarella sticks, exactly.
You're just making less, sothey can make more, you know.
So the more you can control andthe more you understand that
that that relationship right is,the better off you're going to
be indeed, these are all goodpoints listen, I listen, I, I, I

(01:03:52):
, somebody, somebody.
A friend of mine was like theywork with Belmont University and
they had a studio.
My friend Jamie's like wouldyou ever be interested in you
know, talking to the students atthe studio.
I'm like Jamie, I go, be careful.
What you wish for, right,because I have an opening
statement.
Right, Because I have anopening statement Right.

(01:04:13):
It's like if my openingstatement with the music
business is if you, you have tolove this thing so much that
you're willing to take a vow ofpoverty, still be happy and and
can't live with yourself, youknow, if you don't play guitar

(01:04:37):
or music or exercise some kindof creative outlet, right, um
then, then, then then this isn'tfor you.
This is a, this is a rough andready, this is a struggle, right
.
And my second, my secondstatement to them it's like my
first advice in the musicbusiness is stay the fuck away
from the music business.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
I heard another version that is a pretty good
one as well.
It's like you know, if you sayto somebody, if you can see
yourself doing anything else, dothat yeah.
Because I always say it's likeI could not see myself doing
anything else and I would not bestopped, I said you have to be
a little crazy.
You got to be a little.
I mean not crazy in a negativeway, but it's.

(01:05:19):
It's like you have blinders on.
No, I'm going to do this and nomatter how many people are
saying yeah, you know how hardthis is.
It's like, yeah, but it's notgoing to be that way for me
because this is what I'm goingto do and no one's going to stop
me.
You have to have that kind.
And then you find out a longway it's like, yeah, maybe I was
, you know a little, a littletoo, this that the next thing.
But you know you pivot and yougo on.
But that love of doing it, thatlove has to so far supersede

(01:05:44):
the bullshit you were inevitablyconsume.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
Yeah.
It has to be the love of yourlife Exactly.
Yeah, it has to be the love ofyour life Exactly.
And for it to work and you knowthe ones that that always I
just get a chuckle and it's likeyou see, people like you know,
well, you know, you know makingmusic.
I'm a creative and I make music, and, and, and you know the

(01:06:15):
road life is, is is so hard andI hate.
I'm a homebody and I like beingat home, you know, but I but,
and I'm going.
Well then, this isn't for you,this is not for you exactly.
This is like.
This is like seeing a, a, amailman because, man, I'm a
mailman but I hate paper andstamps.
Right, it's like.
This clearly isn't.
This isn't for you.
There's, there can't be.
This is why I've successfullysingle at almost 48 years old

(01:06:39):
and I've had some greatgirlfriends throughout my life.
And it all comes down to this.
They will all say this.
And when they see videos of meas a kid and then they deal with
me on a day-to-day basis, theygo you haven't changed at all
since you've been 12 years old.
They go that's right, becausethat's what makes me good at my

(01:07:01):
job.
Right, a hundred percent.
Yeah, any contingents or I'mI'm only going to play gigs If I
make X, or if I, I'm only goingto do it If, if, if they sent a
, a, you know a town car, youknow right Plated rims.
This isn't for you.

Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
Exactly In the Prius Uber, like we all do you know.
Judas Prius, judas Prius.

Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
Well, this is my friend.
So great Thanks.
Well, listen my friend, it's sogreat.
Thanks so much for making sometime to rap with us.
I really appreciate it.
It's always a pleasure.
It was fun.
Thanks for having me sit inwhen you were in Milwaukee.
That was a blast.
It had been a while.

Speaker 2 (01:07:45):
It had been a while and you melted the Riverside
Theater on a very cold eveningwith your guitar prowess it was
cold.

Speaker 1 (01:07:52):
Well, thank you so much.
That's a fun tune to play.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
I'll tell you what man I was.
What I didn't let you on waswhen we were sitting at catering
having dinner, something feltoff.
I just had a cap put on a tooth.
I go, something felt off andI'm like you know, you know when
something's wrong.
But then you're kind of indenial, right, and I go I hope

(01:08:15):
Greg doesn't think I'm like justin a bad mood or something.
Something was off and it turnedout he did like a root canal.

Speaker 1 (01:08:21):
Oh, no kidding.
Oh yeah, on the road oh that'sno fun, oh no, so.

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
So my apologies if I, if I.

Speaker 1 (01:08:34):
Oh no, no, you were fine, it was great that was.

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
I felt very much, uh, very much at home.
I enjoyed the whole experience.
Like the hummus was likechewing ice that's the worst
getting old is tough.

Speaker 1 (01:08:47):
Well, it's not.
It's not for the faint of heartbut it happens to everyone.

Speaker 2 (01:08:51):
they call me a boom.
When they call me a boomer, I'mgoing.
It's going to happen to youExactly.
We're all lapping the sun.
It's not that, that's a fact.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
Well, listen, have fun over there in Europe.
Give them hell, I will Thankyou, sir, and hope to cross
paths again soon.
Yeah, man, thanks, greg, mypleasure, thank you.
Talk to you soon, bye-bye, bye.
Well, thanks for tuning in,ladies and gentlemen, to another
episode of Chewing the Gristle.
We certainly do appreciate youstopping by.

(01:09:21):
Make sure you tell your friendsall about us.
I think they might enjoythemselves.
So thanks again for tuning inand we'll see you next time.