Rick Vito RETURNS!

What if you could blend traditional blues with inventive hooks to create a sound that captivates audiences? Join us on "Chewing the Gristle" as we welcome back the legendary slide guitar virtuoso Rick Vito to explore this very question. Rick takes us inside his creative haven in Tennessee, where he crafts his latest masterpiece "Cadillac Man" surrounded by iconic instruments, including Peter Green's Armstrong archtop and a nearly century-old National Triolian. 

Our conversation with Rick Vito also dives deep into influences that have shaped his illustrious career. Hear about his collaborations with the soulful Ronnie Barron, the intricate techniques of sacred steel and Indian musicians, and the journey of blending diverse sounds to forge a unique musical identity. 

We'll also talk about encounters and performances that have left an indelible mark on our musical journey. From the electrifying Peter Green tribute concert featuring legends like David Gilmour and Pete Townsend to the enduring influence of Otis Rush, Chuck Berry, and BB King, this episode celebrates the soulful expression that defines great guitar playing. We also discuss the excitement of new guitar models and upcoming tours, all while emphasizing the importance of a family vibe within guitar companies. Don't miss this episode filled with passion, reverence, and the timeless spirit of the blues.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
At long last.
Ladies and gentlemen, seasonfive of Chewing the Gristle is
indeed upon us, a convivialconversation fest between myself
, gregory S Caulk, esquire and avariety of musical potentates
from hither and yon, brought toyou by our friends at Wildwood
Guitars and our friends atFishman Transducers, of course,

(00:32):
both of which I've hadlong-standing and continuing
relationships with, and I'm verygrateful for their continued
support in this endeavor tobring you Chewing the Dog on
Gristle.
We've got a bunch of fun guests, some you have heard of, some
maybe not so much.
It'll be a little bit ofdiscovery and a little bit of
chaos all rolled into one.

(00:53):
Thanks for tuning in folks.
Now, without any further ado,let's chew some gristle.
This week, ladies and gentlemen,the return of the mighty Rick
Vito, one of my favorite people,favorite Sly guitar players of
all time.
He's got a brand new record outwhich I love, and we also
wanted to chew the gristle alittle bit about his

(01:15):
participation in the big PeterGreen tribute concert in London
a year ago or so.
So let's get to it, let's chewthat gristle with Rick Vito.
Doggone it, or so.
So let's get to it, let's chewthat gristle with Rick Vito,
doggone it.
Ladies and gentlemen, boys andgirls, we have gathered once
again around the gristle fire,if you will, for another

(01:39):
installment of Chewing theGristle.
We've brought back the mightyRick Vito.
He's got a brand new record outand since last we have
conversed with him.
He's done some exciting thingsand we thought it'd be a good
opportunity to get together andcatch up again.
Rick, how the heck are you?

Speaker 2 (01:51):
I'm doing just great, fantastic Gristle great,
excellent.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Now you're down in.
Tennessee as we speak.
I'm sorry You're down intennessee as we speak yeah, I'm
in tennessee.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
I'm in my dining room where I have the wall of some
of my greats behind me, um and I.
This is where I come to topractice my guitar and to write
songs.
For some reason, works great.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
I like it.
And I see that old nationalbehind you.
Now people won't be able to seeit, but it looks to me like an
old Duolion from back in the day.
What's the story behind thatrascal?

Speaker 2 (02:34):
That is a Triolion and I was looking around for the
most beat up but good soundingold National I could find, and
this came across and I was ableto secure it for a very
reasonable price.
And it is almost a hundredyears old.
It's from the twenties and itsits on the wall next to a

(02:55):
mandolin that my mother found ata garage sale out.
You know, sitting out in thesun is one of the earliest
Gibsons ever made, in 1906 or 7.
And next to that is PeterGreen's Armstrong archtop guitar
, which I was able to get at theauction that took place in

(03:17):
London last year, nice.
My latest, great, proudestpossession is.
I've had this Gretsch guitarfor 40 years, but recently I got
real friendly with our justrecently departed friend Dwayne
Eddy.
Oh yes, and he was kind enoughto sign it for me, and so it

(03:38):
will always remain on display inthe dining room.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
That is awesome indeed, you know.
Speaking of guitars, I wasgoing to ask him.
We've never talked about thatwild-shaped circle slash,
half-circle pink guitar-ishthing that you play when you
were in Fleetwood Mac.
What is the story with that,Rascal?

Speaker 2 (04:01):
I designed that when I was out on tour with the bob
seger doing that like a rocktour ah, this was 86.
So, um, I designed it on paper.
When I got home off the tour Imade a full scale model of it
paper again, you know, usingsort of shapes that you know
fender scale, neck and etc.

(04:23):
And I had a luthier in uh inlos angeles make it for me.
And the idea was I wanted tofind, I wanted to have a guitar
that was very, very demonstrablyart deco right from start to
finish.
And because you know nationaland and you know that company,
they did some very interestingart Deco lap steels and a couple

(04:46):
of guitars had appointments onthem, sort of like a pick guard
with a Deco shape or whatever.
But I wanted something that wasfully and totally Art Deco that
nobody else had and that was it, and I've had it now since 1987
.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
Awesome, and you use that quite well.
What kind of pickups are onthat beast?

Speaker 2 (05:08):
There is a cheap, no-name Japanese pickup in the
neck which came on a Telecasterthat I yanked it out of and I
honestly don't know what's inthe bridge now.
I think it's a Demarcio, Okay.
In the bridge now I think it'sa DiMarzio, Okay, and the coils
are split on both so I can get ayou know the single coil sound

(05:29):
and the full flitched highoctane sound and a pan switch
and then a volume and a tone.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
Excellent.
Well, let's talk a little bitabout that new record.
I love it.
Cadillac man, Thank you brother,I love the tunes.
Singing is great, the playing,of course, is fabulous and I
love how you know you'll take,just, you know, a lot of times
they're just blues progressionsbut a few minor variations, but
you always have like a greatinstrumental hook.

(05:57):
It's either play with slide andyour inimitable style, and I
just I just find it a joy tolisten to and it's and and this
is no denigration on on uh, onother performers per se, but I
have a hard time listening to,uh, new releases from quote
unquote blues artists because,uh, a lot of times it just it's

(06:22):
just so formulaic one way oranother that within two tunes
I'm done.
But this it's, it's true toroots, but it also has a fresh
feel to it and and it's, it'sbelievable.
You know what I mean.
Do you know what I'm talkingabout?

Speaker 2 (06:36):
I know exactly what you mean, because I I do the
same thing as you.
I can.
I can know within less than aminute whether I'm going to like
a whole record.
I'll just skip.
You know, if that first songdoesn't grab me, I'll skip to
the second.
If that doesn't grab me, I'llstick to the third and usually
from there it's going downhill.
So that's it, it goes in thetrash and I don't listen to it

(07:00):
because, yeah, it's thesubtleties, Because, yeah, it's
the subtleties.
And I think I think, 40 yearsor 50 years of producing oneself
, you start to you start to knowwhen something is has something
a little special to it or not,Right?
And I took four years to toassemble 12 songs that I thought

(07:21):
not only went together well,but each had had a character and
and stood on its own merit and,you know, held up.
So thank you very much for forpointing that out and you know
you sort of are you're giving methe best feedback I could get.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
Well, my pleasure because I enjoy it.
I was just listening to ityesterday, as a matter of fact,
and I?
Well, my pleasure because Ienjoy it.
I was just listening to ityesterday, as a matter of fact,
and I love your slide play.
I mean, slide is such aninteresting thing, especially
nowadays as it's become, andthere's a lot of great young
purveyors of slide who have beenable to kind of stand on the

(08:00):
shoulders of, who have been andtake it to this next pinnacle of
of technical excellence, and Idon't want to downplay that in
any straight shape or form, butI find that myself, anytime
something gets too indoctrinatedin a in more of a technical
mastery versus what it reallycame from, which was a wire

(08:24):
attached to a corrugated shackwith a Coke bottle.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
And so.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
I find that there needs to be a certain
vulnerability and rawness to itin order for me to find it again
believable.
And again, this is just my owndysfunction, but one of the
things I love about your playingis that there is a technical
mastery and and a uh and a goingbeyond coloring outside the box
, but yet it's always got thatconnection to the original shit

(08:57):
and that's what I love so muchabout it well, thank you.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
Um, yeah, I, you know it's.
It's playing slide is likespeaking another language to me.
You know, and it's also a veryvocal human and you know
whatever animal sings.
I think it has a kinship withthat, because you're not going

(09:22):
from fret to fret to fret,you're going above the fret, so
you're sailing from one note tothe next, which you can do to
some extent with normal playing,which is great.
But you know, if a singer like,just say, a scat singer or
whatever, can you hear me okay?

Speaker 1 (09:41):
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
Okay, a scat singer is singing a zillion notes, or a
jazz singer.
Well, you know, it's fine for asong and it's technically
brilliant and stuff, but reallywhat really soothes the soul are
the.
Are the, are the drawn outphrases?
It's the purity of the sound,it's the expression, it's the
emotion and that I feel like youknow, after having played this

(10:07):
for you know my whole adult lifeI feel like I'm probably have
somewhat of a voice on the doingslide.
So no doubt that's what.
And again I thank you very much, greg.
You hit all the nails on thehead for me, thank you.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
Well, you know, one of the things that I like quite
a bit is, in addition to just,you know, vibrato and phrasing
and all that kind of stuff.
But there's just enough of thatconnection to the, to that
vocally, um, sacred steelplaying, but not too much.

(10:49):
You know what I mean.
It's kind of like there's a lotof people now who have really
zoned in on that thing and it'slike every phrase that they do
is that and that's, and again,this is just my personal
preference thing, but I like howyou'll just throw those things
in every now and again and theyhave maximum impact when you you
do.
And I'm curious as to at whatpoint did that kind of phrasing

(11:10):
enter into your playing?
Was it prior to even hearingabout or knowing about the
sacred steel stuff and you'vepicked it up just intuitively?
Or at what point did that enteryour, your phraseology, as it
were?

Speaker 2 (11:23):
it definitely came about before the before hearing
Aubrey Gent, which was the firstguy I heard Right.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
Exactly yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
But I used to be friends with a singer named
Ronnie Barron.
He was with Paul Butterfieldfor a short while and he was
from new Orleans and he was avery black sounding white singer
, but what he did with his voicewas he was a very black
sounding white singer, but whathe did with his voice was he was
.
He had that ability to toproduce a melisma of notes in

(11:53):
his phrasing and I always triedto copy that on on the guitar or
on the slide, and to varyingdegrees of success.
Because what you have to do toachieve that is, you don't go
across the neck, you go up anddown the neck.
Exactly, and getting precise onyour phrasing and your notes is

(12:15):
a very, very difficult thing,very difficult.
And so when I heard the SacredSteel of Aubrey Jen, I noticed
that, well, he's doing this inspades.
You know he's really.
Steel of Aubrey Jen.
I noticed that, well, he'sdoing this in spades.
You know he's really.
He's got on the on the lap.
So I did listen to him for awhile, but then I realized, okay
, and I started hearing theseother guys and they all sounded
like Aubrey Jen and they all dideven this other sacred steel

(12:37):
players, right, and I, then Ihis father and he sounded like
his father.
So I went okay, there's adanger here of too much into
this.
It's good to pick up a thing ortwo from these guys, just as it
is great to pick up a thing ortwo from the like the Mohan
Bhatt and Dibashish BhattacharyaIndian players who play the

(13:00):
Venus and this type ofinstrument, who play the Venus
and this type of instrument.
So you know, I think it's goodto get as many influences as you
can and then put them all in amelting pot and see what you can
come up with.
That sounds unique and that'salways the challenge, isn't it?

Speaker 1 (13:17):
It is indeed.
You know.
I found an older record ofyours on YouTube that's not on
iTunes and I'm spacing on thename of it, but it's probably
from mid-90s and you do aninstrumental tune that's your

(13:38):
own, but it's very FreddieKing-esque and it's all standard
playing and it is so awesomebecause it's got to be your
dumbbell on there, because itdefinitely sounds like that
dumbbell-y tone.
I could be wrong, but what'scool about?
it again with your slide playing.
With your playing on this, it'slike there's nods to Freddie

(14:00):
and there's some straight bluesphrasing, but then you'll throw
in a line that's a littleWestern swingy or just a just a
little, you know, jazzy orphrasing, and then right back to
the other side and it's just itwas.
It was spelled by me.
I had to sit down and learn asmuch as I could of it.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
Thanks for that.
You know, again, I got to findthe name of that.
I'm not a school player at all.
I don't know how to read musicand I was never.
I never had a teacher.
So my teachers are, you know,keith Richards and BB King and
anybody else who I could grab alittle or steal a little bit
from the swing players who areinfluenced by Django and Les

(14:44):
Paul and and those guys.
I was able to cop a little bitof that stuff and sort of just
you know, it was my plan.
I just try to get the what.
What does it sound like?
What?
What can I produce that soundslike that, without actually
stealing note for note?

Speaker 1 (15:00):
That is right, exactly, the record's called
pink and black, by the way oh,pink and black.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
What was on pink and black?

Speaker 1 (15:09):
uh, I'm gonna take a look here.
I'm gonna pink and black, I'mgonna open up that thing here
pardon me, listener as we do alittle recon.
Uh, uh, streamliner, I thinkit's called.
Is that the one?

Speaker 2 (15:26):
No, maybe Streamliner .
Yeah, streamliner, that's it.
Yeah, that's a blazing Exactly.
Yeah, that's it.
My son, when he was in gradeschool, came home, he said daddy
, I've got an idea for a bluessong.
And I said you're kidding.
And he said da-da-da-da-da-da,da-da-da-da-da-da-da, so that's

(15:50):
the start of the tune and then Iadded it, so we're co-writers
on that my son and.
I that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
And he was on the band at the time.
That's crazy, yeah, well.
Well, when did you decide youknow because I, in the last time
we we spoke, we talked moreabout your you know when you
moved out to la, kind of at thebehest of you know the
connection with delaney andbonnie and so on and so forth
when did you realize that youknow the, the blues thing was

(16:23):
really your home and that thatwas where you were going to
dwell?
You add all these otherelements to it, but it's
definitely you know you're ablues guy, am I right?

Speaker 2 (16:34):
I am a blues guy.
Yeah, I again tried to teachmyself to play outside the box
and turn this on or turn it off,you know so I did teach myself
to play outside the box and turnthis on or turn it off.
And you know so, I did teachmyself to play some country and
a little bit wing, as you say,and of course the slide goes in

(16:56):
a lot of those different areas.
But and I would, you know, bedoing a fair amount of session
work that you had to playoutside of the blues idiom.
Sure, you had to play a littlemore pop or rock and roll and I
was able to do that.
But I think it's having thatstrong blues bass is what
enabled me to sound more likemyself and not like the other

(17:22):
typical session players who werepopular in LA at the time.
Not that I rose to that levelof A-list guys, but I did a fair
amount of session work outthere.
But at the same time I wasgoing on the road with John
Mayall and had a band in LAcalled the Juke Rhythm Band and

(17:44):
then the Rick Vito Band, etcetera, and we would always play
the clubs and blues and R&Bsongs.
Those kind of things were whatwe did Excellent Roots, rock and
roll.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
You know, I got to tell you that when we were
together down in Toledo a coupleof weeks ago and you did that
minor blues slide thing and Ithought I just started messing
around with the tuning I thinkit's the tuning you were doing,
but I I basically I started anopen E and then I tuned the E
string or the G string back downto G natural and I took the A

(18:19):
string from a B to a C sharp.
Is that?
Is that the tuning you're doingor is that something different?
So it's kind of like an E minorsixth, that's it.
That's an awesome tune.
And then, of course, if youjust sharp the G and then you
got that E six tuning and it'sjust a wonderfully haunting with

(18:39):
the minor one, it just is soawesome.
There's that version online ofyou with Mick Fleetwood doing
that old Petereter green song uh, the low mom yeah, I love that
burns exactly.
And boy, that just.
Is that just something youintuitively, you know, uh sort
of messing with, because it'skind of it sounded like a, uh,

(19:01):
lap steel tuning or how did thatkind of come about?

Speaker 2 (19:04):
I think it came about by accident one time trying to
figure out Albert Collins tuning, and then I just applied it
there.
Another thing that's reallyinteresting that you can do is
on that G string is it the G orthe B?
On that G string is it the G orthe B?

(19:28):
You can create all of thesedifferent tunings by going up or
down on your G string and youcan double the B or you can
double the G string, or then youcan play dad gad, you can.
You can play dad gad right whenyou can minor, or you can play

(19:48):
you know this all kinds of justby messing with that G string.
That's something that I talkedabout.
I did one of those slide guitartutorials with true fire.
Oh yeah, there's all thetunings you could come up with
by changing your G string.

(20:08):
That's wild.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
Now are you?
I mean, obviously, as you playthose tunings you learn more and
more areas that make sense, butit's kind of fun not knowing
them all that well.
Am I right that you're kind ofjust intuitively going about it
instead of like mapping it out?

Speaker 2 (20:28):
in some kind of scientific way.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
Yeah, you're right.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
And also, if you come up with something that sounds
cool, you can write a tune.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
You can write your own tune around that right, so
then totally something it soundslike you know what you're doing
, right, exactly, just feelingyour way along, which is the
first thing I did when I wasmessing around with that tune.
I came up with a little thingand I posted something.
I go.
This is what happens when youhang out with Rick Vito you come
up.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
Well, you know, to a man with a vocabulary such as
yours, my friend, that's highpraise indeed.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
Oh, bless you.
We sure had fun playingtogether.
I hope we get to do that again,because I think that's just a
glorious matchup.
It's just a fun musical thing.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
Fun musical thing, and so much of it is the fact
that you have just one of thegreatest bands I can even think
of.
Your son, Dylan and TobyMarshall are not only two of the
sweetest guys you'd ever wantto meet, but they are just
awesome, ridiculous players thatcan play anything well and just

(21:32):
you know.
All I did was send them a tapeof some songs and they came back
playing it, like they'd beenplaying it for months.
You know, and here we are.
We're able to get on stage andnot even run through some of
those songs, and we were playingthem.

Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yeah, it was awesome to hear I'll tell you that I
loved it.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
Well, I'll make sure to tell them that I'm sure
they'll get a kick out of it.
You joined in on that one tune.
Can't Stop the Guitar fromPlaying the Blues.
Yeah, yeah, it was the perfectsong for you to sit in on.
You know my little six-song setthere, but yeah, I haven't
heard any of that yet, but I'mreally anxious to hear it.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
Yeah, they do a good job there at the old Circle R
Ranch they make it sound good.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
Yeah, I'm sure they do.
I can't wait.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
Let's talk a little bit about the Peter Green.
Um, that was kind of uh afterwe had talked the first time,
and of course now it's a coupleyears ago.
Peter was still alive then,actually, but he didn't actually
go to the show, right right.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
He didn't go to the show, which is uh Kind of what
Nick expected.
You know they had.
They had the limousine waitingfor him in the private booth to
sit in and the guarantee thatnobody would bug him, or you
know all that.
But in the end he was true tohimself and he just said that he

(22:55):
would have felt uncomfortablegoing to it Right.
I did hear that he that he sawit on video afterwards going to
it.
I did hear that he saw it on avideo afterwards.
But they're very close.
His family is very tight-lippedabout that whole thing.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
Well, it was kind of weird because years ago I did a
Fender thing at Abbey Road andPeter Green was there with his
family and I was a huge fan, butI just couldn't engage.
I just thought this is, you know, I didn't feel comfortable
talking or it was kind of likethey were in their own little

(23:32):
world and I just didn't want tomess with it but certainly a
huge fan of everything he did,and so I enjoyed that show
immensely.
But when I remember I watchedit, I really found this is not
just blowing smoke up, yourpatootie, but I really thought
you were the guy that that heldthat thing together, because
it's, you know, and those things, those types of things you know
you'll have people who, uh,come on, that you know certainly

(23:57):
were influenced by him and soon and so forth, but really
didn't know his material likeyou knew it.
So you were kind of the anchorthat could you know, speak to
how that stuff was done and alsotrying to keep those
arrangements together.
I really thought that, you know, if there was a most valuable
player award not that it's acontest, but you should have

(24:18):
got- Well, thank you, shouldhave gone well.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
Thank you, um, that all the guys in the, in those
who produced that show, kind ofacknowledged that fact, and the
reason that's true is because Ihad just spent 10 years with
mccleetwood in the what wecalled the rickwood Blues Band,
featuring Rick Vito Right.
So, we were doing not only mysongs that were in a similar
style, but we were doing theoriginal Peter Green era of

(24:52):
Fleetwood Mac songs.
So we were quite well versed init and probably had played them
hundreds and hundreds of times.
So Mick and I had kind of goneour separate ways after that,
and he was.
He put the show together and Ithink they soon realized that

(25:14):
although everybody that theyassembled were great players and
stuff, none of them were versedin Peter.
And he called me on Christmasday, which would have been about
six weeks before the show wasto take place, and asked if I
would be a part of it.

(25:36):
And so we sort of talkedthrough what we needed to talk
through and a week later I wasout on Maui rehearsing the band
and then we went to London torehearse for another week with
some of the all-star players whoall showed up, you know David
Gilmour and Billy Gibbons andPete Townsend, bill Wyman and

(25:58):
all those guys, and so itfinally came together in the end
, right at the last minute.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah, I did think it was funny, even though I love
that tune Station man.
But that was not a Peter Greensong.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
No, but in all fairness, the concert was built
a tribute to Peter Green and theearly music.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
Yeah, there you go.
Perfect, I love that song.
I mean, did you ever play thatone back in the day with the
guys?
Never, no, yeah it's aninteresting tune.
I really hadn't heard it upuntil maybe five years ago.
I remember when I'd go out toWildwood and one of the guys out
there was a big early FleetwoodMac fan, and of course I had
heard all the Peter Green stufffan, and of course I had heard

(26:44):
all the Peter Green stuff andand and then at some point I
realized that, um, uh, dannyKerwin actually played a lot of
the parts that I really liked,um, and then I realized, oh well
, he was on for a while after,and so then I then I got those
records and I really liked thoserecords, I liked his.
His songwriting was also verymelancholy and you know, had
that he was prone to the darkarts, it seemed.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
You know, I think he was having a little bit of
trouble.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
Yeah, but, and so I enjoyed.
When I heard Station I was likeman, that song is awesome.
And then it was kind of likeone of those unknown gems.
So when Pete did it I was likecool.
But you know, I just thought,well, that's not quite a, but
again it's, it's, it's closeenough as far as I'm concerned.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
One of those songs that he, he sort of.
He really liked it when it cameout and he subconsciously wrote
a who song based on it.
And I think the reason hewanted to come was to
acknowledge to the world that,yes, I did, as a matter of fact,
based on it.
And I think the reason hewanted to come was to
acknowledge to the world that,yes, I did as a matter of fact,
I was influenced by this songmore than I actually realized at

(27:50):
the time.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
Interesting Now, danny Kerwin was already passed
away by then, too, that you didthe benefit.
He was another one, that was,you couldn't find him and he
didn't want anything to do withhis past, and so on and so forth
.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, he became.
He lived on the street, Iunderstand, and in shelters and
didn't want any help from Mickor anything.
He just didn't.
And I met his sister after theshow and she was just thrilled
that he was mentioned and we dida couple of songs that he had

(28:23):
done and, yeah, I agree, hereally.
You know, like on the song ohWell, right, the lead is
actually played by Danny.
Danny, exactly.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
You know, and the lead's in the raucous part,
peter's pretty much playing thefigure line and then the rhythm,
but it's, but it's danny he'splaying, uh, and that, that
amazing vibrato, very unique yes, very unique vibrato he had and
I don't know many people that,um, although I thought johnny

(29:00):
came, came fairly close on on acouple songs that he did.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
But anyway, he was very unique player and and, yeah
, it's, it's, uh, it was nicethat he was represented yeah, I
think jigsaw puzzle blues wasthe one that I always, you know,
just figured it was peter, butthen when I dug in it was like
no, no, that was Danny.
On that.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
Yeah.
And there was this of Dannysort of lifting that whole
melody from Eddie Lang and JoeVenuti.
Exactly, exactly, really wasn'this song, but he put his stamp
on it and yeah, it was a great,great version.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
Now I remember you telling a story where you saw
the original Fleetwood Mac inPhiladelphia at a club right.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
Oh yeah, oh man, I was so thankful for that.
Saw him two nights in a row,that's right.
And it was literally aboutthree days before they went to
Chicago to record Blues Jam,chicago, right, with all the
blues greats, you know.
So they were playing all thosesongs and um, so the first night

(30:11):
I saw him I was just absolutely, you know, it was like a sponge
.
I loved it so much I I justsuck it in it was.
It tickled every musical bone ofmy, of my entire body and brain
, and I was just blown away by,first of all, peter, uh, because
he's who I knew about, right,but he was so much better than

(30:34):
what I'd heard on record, somuch better as a singer, so much
better as a player, as adynamic uh interpreter, as a
band leader and as a songwriter.
And and then the rhythm sectionof fleetwood and mcvee kerwan
was was it was the first I knewabout him, right.
And uh, and of course, um,jeremy spencer doing the omar j.

(31:00):
And to hear them they came outand both Kerwan and Peter turned
their E string down to D andthey came out playing the Elmore
James song in the key of D withJeremy, and so their rhythm was
played real low together.
It was massive, just soimpressive.

(31:21):
It just got more impressive asthe set went on and I hadn't
seen anything as impressivesince I saw Hendrix in the same
club about a year before.
So, as out there and genius asHendrix was, peter did the same
thing, but with restraint andtaste and tone Right and
songwriting.

Speaker 1 (31:42):
We interrupt this regularly scheduled
gristle-infested conversation togive a special shout-out to our
friends at Fishman Transducers,makers of the Greg Koch
Signature Fluence Gristle TonePickup Set Can you dig that?
And our friends at WildwoodGuitars of Louisville, colorado,
bringing the heat in the shadowof the Rocky Mountains.

(32:04):
Let me ask you something thatyou know I'm not into and I'm
sure you're not either the whole.
You know this guy was betterand this guy was better and you
know it's just.
I think I mean I understandwhere people are coming from in
that regard, always needing tohave a superlative, and

(32:24):
certainly there are times whenyou go see something like you're
just describing where it hadsuch a visceral effect on you
that it stands out.
But you know, when you hearpeople you know talk about the
likes of Clapton and Peter Greenand saying well, peter was the
real guy and I just want to golisten, they were both great,
what's wrong with saying theywere both great?

(32:44):
But you know, especially whenyou figure that you know Clapton
was the you know the first guyto take a Les Paul and plug it
into a Marshall and get thatsound, and you know, as we were
talking about earlier, someonewho was cognizant of the fact of
yeah, you're influenced by allthese different folks, but you

(33:04):
come up with your own take on itand it's unique.
Yeah, you can hear the FreddieKing and the BB King when you're
hearing Clapton but he had hisown thing and his own vibrato
and so on and so forth, and yougot Peter, who was a great
vocalist and obviously abrilliant guitar player, but
arguably, you know, when heplays straight blues, I mean,
it's pretty much BB King on thenose, you know what I mean.

(33:27):
And there are some other thingsthat he adds to it, but his
songwriting and the wholepackage was unique, and so they
both have their own differentthings.
But this, this madness aboutyou know well, Peter was the
real guy and Clapton was justlike some kind of charlatan
always just kind of hits me inthe wrong place.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
No, no, you're absolutely right.
You know, and really, as as aplayer, um, you know, no one's a
hundred percent original,there's no one.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
No doubt, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
You know he listened to certain things that he took
some of his style from, but youknow, I think, where the genius
is is.
You could definitely say thatClapton was the best at being
Clapton.
Yeah totally His experience, hismelding together the different
style, and Peter was the best atbeing Peter, exactly, and

(34:20):
Beasley was the best at beingit's just, you know, know, even
Stevie Ray Vaughan.
I didn't get it first.
I really didn't get it becauseat first all I heard was the
three guys whom, in myestimation, he was sounding like
, which was Albert King, rightHendrix, bonnie Mac, and I just
well, he just put he's puttingus together.
And then when I saw him live, Isaw how he fused that all

(34:45):
together and put his own energyin it right, and he was the best
at being steve raymond.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
Exactly, exactly correct, that's the best way of
putting it, but I just I get so.
You know, every time you openup social media it's another top
10 list or who's underrated andwho's done.
It's like just listen to themusic or, better yet, practice
and play music.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah, Get something of your own going.
That's like the slightest bitoriginal.
See and see if you can even dothat.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
Exactly, exactly, correct, but, uh, I still like
listening to all that old stuff.
You know, I, I, you know, a lotof times I'm going to bed at
night I'll just find an oldbootleg, you know, cause YouTube
, of course, is, you know, justa playground for that kind of
stuff.
Now, where you find all theseold bootlegs and listen, you're
you always hear something new,cause that, as as you said, when
you see someone live, uh, thereare things going on.

(35:40):
There might've been thingshappening in a club in
Philadelphia that never happenedagain, you know.
Or they played in Toledosomeplace, and that night was
particularly off the hook and itwould have been lost to history
forever, except that now peoplehad a reel to reel, you know,
recording of it, that they didbootleg and I've put it on
YouTube and now you can hearthat stuff.

(36:00):
So there's like this wholetreasure trove of heretofore
unknown things that are justawesome to listen to.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
That is true, and and and it is true that probably
some of the best music that youand I have ever made uh, was
done in a in a club somewhere, asmall audience, and you were
just on that night and nobodyhad a tape recorder going was
done in a club somewhere, asmall audience, and you were
just on that night, nobody had atape recorder going.
So it's just, it's no one willever know that or hear it, so it

(36:31):
isn't really interesting.
When someone does happen tocapture that, yeah, it's an
interesting phenomenon.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
Indeed.
So what kind of stuff do youlike to listen to these days?
Are you still a fan of music tothe point where you like to
listen to it a lot, or do youfind that you're just mostly
playing and doing your own thingat this point?
Or is it kind of going phases?

Speaker 2 (36:55):
It goes in phases.
I think you know I don't thinkI'll ever get tired of going
back and listening to.
You know I don't think I'llever get tired of going back and
listening to.
You know somebody who's reallybrilliant, who's been an
influence on me.
You know like, for instance,last week I was looking for

(37:17):
something in my car and I for, Iguess a couple of years ago I
put Rolling Stones CD calledAftermath.
Oh yeah, came out when I was inhigh school and I put it on and
I was just blown away, justpartly because it was nostalgic
and it touched me and it was.
You know they were doing somethings on there that hadn't been

(37:39):
done here before, but somegreat songs.
Oh yeah, you know, otis Rushcomes to mind, you know, to hear
what he did with his voice andthe vibrato in his playing.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
That's so great.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
For Chuck Berry.
He's a great example.
I've always gone back to Chuckbecause I always hear something
more in his playing, or his tone, or you know.
What he did on the steel wasincredible.
Did you get to that?

Speaker 1 (38:08):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
I mean just ridiculously great and cool.
And it just always cracks me upwhen I see these people playing
what they think is Chuck veryterribly, and it's just, you
know, they don't get the rhythmright, they don't get the sound
or they don't play the notesright.
And the guy was brilliant,really genius.

Speaker 1 (38:31):
No, doubt no doubt about it.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
I like to go back.
I don't listen much to.
I don't listen much to currentplayers.
I'll.
I'll that Partly because ifthey're too good, I won't like
them, and if they're too bad, Iwon't like them either.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
You know, what I listened to the other day was a
record that I just loved andwhen I first started playing
guitar I learned so much fromwas the Stones'.
Get your Ya-Ya's Out.
They're the live thing.
The first thing with, reallythe first.
Well, I guess Let it Bleedwould have been the first thing
with Mick Taylor, but I think Iremember telling you the last
time we got together, the firstslide thing I ever learned was

(39:12):
Mick Taylor's solo on Love inVain on that record.
But now they've kind of gotthat whole concert because they
toured with BB King and with Ikeand Tina Turner on that tour
and they've got the open set.
Did you see that tour?
Yeah, oh man, I'll tell youwhat.
Because BB still had that.

(39:34):
You know that blues is kingtone and kind of approach, kind
of live at the Regalal, blues isking.
He was still in that zone andwas.
His playing was awesome andthat recording is great.
And then, of course, ike andtina turner were just off the
chain and her voice back thenwas even more, I mean, just rock

(39:56):
and roll incarnate.
I'm just trying to imagine hiskid going to that concert saying
, oh, I'm here to see the stones, and then seeing the two
opening action going.
What just happened?

Speaker 2 (40:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean the energy that the thatshe and I gets put out is just
just ridiculous.
And BB BB was so impressivebecause he um, I saw him a
couple times live where hereally did stretch out a bit,
yes, and like if the song had adiminished chord change, yeah,

(40:35):
he would.
He nailed that, he was schooledin that, so he knew how to get
a lot out of those changes andstretched out a little bit and I
would go, yeah, I can't playthat, he just did something I
can't do.
And wow, he held, he, he justkept that in his hip pocket, you
know absolutely, I had asimilar experience.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
I I saw.
I can't remember how many timesI saw bb king.
Every time he was in town I sawhim.
We saw him on one particularoccasion and you could tell he
had a cold or something, so hisvoice wasn't 100%, so he played
more and it was just like youwere talking about.
It's like he outcame all theCharlie Christian jangoisms.

(41:17):
It was like what?
As you said, he just had it inhis hip pocket the whole time,
just ready yeah, it'sinteresting.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
It makes you wonder why he didn't do more of that.
Um, but you know I'm not goingto second second guess, the
great bb king.
But right you, you have tolisten and go through a lot of
records before you can findthose little bits you know, yeah
, but when they happen they areawesome, yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Yeah, you're right.
I don't know if we talked aboutthis last time, but I remember
I've spoken about this with alot of folks.
I don't think that there's, youknow, most of the licks of the
original rock and roll bluesgeneration of white guys from
the 60s, whether it be certainlyClapton, peter Green,

(42:11):
bloomfield, johnny Winter, etc.
Bb King played all of thosethings and a lot of people just
think he stayed in that box anddid his usual and then hit the
octave thing and thenoccasionally would throw in a
couple of bebop licks.
But when you listen to the widerange of his material, you
realize that a lot of the justyou know regular position blues

(42:32):
runs and B string bends andlittle you know twirly bits that
we might affiliate withsomebody else, he actually did
all that shit and that all of itreally came from bb yeah, true,
and not only with the whiteplayers.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
But if you listen to the buddy guy and otis rush, oh
yeah, you know, freddie, I meanthat you can tell right, all
listen to him, they all got itfrom him.
And you know, of course bb gota little bit from both Fulton
and a little bit from T-BoneWalker too, right, because of
course Charlie Christian andDjango, and he told you in

(43:09):
interviews he said this is whereI got my style.
But they all you know, becauseBB was the king of the blues,
the modern blues, I think allthe younger players, black and
white, second generation or oneand a half generation, they
certainly took a lot of thething from BB King for sure.

(43:30):
That's what makes him trulygreat.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
Right.
And then you got Albert King,who was like an alien, because
I've tried to figure out.
Where did he learn that?
It's just like he just decidedone day.
I'm going to this.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
And that's really.
This is some of his earlyrecordings.
He wasn't very good at it yet,right.
And then all of a sudden, Ithink the light bulb went off.
Hey, I'm left handed.
It's OK if I do it this way,right, and I can do something.
That's more, just not a lot ofnotes, but sure.
And he did the same thing overand over and developed his

(44:02):
vocabulary and mastered it.
And boy, I'm with you there.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
He's the guy and you never get tired of listening to
it.
It's like you know what's goingto happen, but it's always a
little different every time.
You're just like, yeah, I couldlisten to that all day, every
day.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
And you know what's so cool about those three King
guys?
They all could really sing,that's true, oh my gosh.
And the Three O'Clock Blues byBB King.
Listen to the gospel phrasingand talk about melisma in notes
and stuff.
There you go.
Yeah, I have a gospel, a reallypoor quality gospel record that

(44:42):
he made where he's mostlysinging, and his gospel singing
is just off the charts.
And Freddie King same way.
Man, just ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
Just an explosion.
What he would say.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
Yeah, it's just amazing.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
You know, the other day I was just sitting in my
hotel room in Colorado after aday of shooting videos and man,
it's just fun putting on thatinstrumental Freddie King shit
and just playing along.
It just does that ever get old.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
Right.
And has anybody ever gottenthat exact tone no Like from the
original Les Paul that heplayed on all those early
records?

Speaker 1 (45:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
That tone is and it's almost it's like it came from
outer space.
It's so difficult to dial thatup.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
Yeah, well, I think a lot of it too is that his
finger picks had so much to dowith the sound.
That metal against thosestrings just gave it that weird
quality to it, but awesomequality.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
I thought that the early records where he played
the Les Paul really had thesound, as opposed to the 335
thing that he went to later.

Speaker 1 (45:53):
Right, I would agree, guitar nerd talking, guitar
nerds talking just kind ofspeaks to that fact that you
know so many people are obsessedwith, especially now with the
advent of and again I don't wantto sound like you know, get off

(46:13):
of my lawn kid, but you knowcause I'm very active on social
media.
It's it's, it's something thatis part of how I make my living
and and I enjoy.
I mean, usually I just get upin the morning and kind of play
something off the top of my headand more times than not it's
the very first thing I playedand I post it and I leave
because it's just kind of mylittle.
You know, hey, how are youthing to the people that like to

(46:34):
follow what I do and so on andso forth, and it's just an
honest thing.
But so much of what happensonline with the people that have
like millions of followers isthat everyone's.
And just for my own thing, if Ipost something that I think is
just tasty, it'll be moderatelyappreciated.
But if I do something that'sflashier, then people are oh,

(46:54):
you know what I mean, not allthe time.
You know a lot of people.
You know there might besomething tone-wise if I play
something that's slower and moretaste-oriented, that might get
a lot of legs to it, but for themost part, more taste oriented
that, that might get a lot oflegs to it, but for for the most
part, it's like people arefascinated by, by technique, and

(47:16):
and I think it's probablyalways been that way to an
extent, but I think really withthe advent of the internet now,
uh, it's become an obsession, uh, as as like, well, who is the
greatest Meaning?
And when they say that, it'slike who is the most technical
player of all time?
And to me of course that's apointless conversation, because
you have people who are reallygood at this thing over here,

(47:37):
but take them out of that andput them in this pool and they
won't know what to do, and viceversa.
And then there's people thatkind of can dip their toe in all
the different things but not tothe level of other people and
that doesn't matter.
It's like, whatever you're doingfor how you view your artistry,
let the good times roll.
But I always go back to theargument of what do I want to
listen to?

(47:57):
And nine times out of 10, thestuff I want to listen to is not
very technically advanced froma technical point of view as far
as notes, quantity of notes oreven sophistication of harmony.
That's not to say that I don'tenjoy things that are more
sophisticated, but I tend tolead towards, like we'd

(48:18):
mentioned, albert King.
It's like if I had my choice ofyou know, who do I appreciate
more, yngwie Malmsteen or AlbertKing?
I'm going to say Albert Kingwithout even thinking about it,
and there's no way that AlbertKing could have played anywhere
near what Yngwie Malmsteen couldplay, or vice versa.
But there just seems to be thistechnical obsession.

(48:41):
But really, the stuff I justbear it down to, what would I
rather listen to?
And the bottom line is it'smore soulful, fucking tasty shit
.
And I don't think I'm the onlyone.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
Well, you know, you said about everything that I
could say with regards to that.
I I often hear players eithertele telecaster country
Nashville style pickers, right,or heavy metal shredders or
blues shredders and all thatstuff, and I'm trying to think

(49:18):
what is going on in thisperson's mind that he has to
express himself that way.
And if I was sitting down totalk to the person who just was
a motor mouth and just keptrambling on and on and on and on
and on and on, I'd want to getup and leave Right, right away.
So I'm with you there.
But at the same time, you'reright, there's a market for that

(49:40):
and I think a lot of people areimpressed by speed and
technicality over, say, thePeter Green or BB King or Albert
King approach.
I think the numbers are greaterfor that, but it could be a
youth thing, I'm not sure I callit comic book music.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
Well, you know, the one thing I've realized is that,
you know, ever since I was akid, you know, and the reason
why this is came into my mindrecently is I'm putting out a
compilation record and someonesaid well, you know, you've got
20 some records.

(50:22):
Why don't you narrow it down to10, 10 tunes?
And you know, of my 20 somerecords, the stuff is all over
the map, man.
I mean there's, you know, I'minto a lot of different things.
I mean there's a blues elementthat runs through all of it, but
sometimes I'll go more overinto a crazier kind of, you know
, jazzy twist to it.
Or sometimes it's more rock, orthere's that chicken picking

(50:44):
aspect to it.
It's got all these differentflavors to it.
But typically, you know, whenI'm at the merch table at the
end of the gig, you know, it'snot unusual for someone to come
up and say, well, what is thebluesiest record?
You have right.
So I thought, well, why don't Ido a blues compilation, pick
tunes from my many records andjust pick out tunes that are

(51:06):
bluesy?
And then I thought, well, asmuch as I can get to an actual
three-chord blues as possible,those are the tunes I'm going to
put on the thing and I startedlistening to some of the older
stuff and there's a version of.
I always would do a version ofHendrix's Red House, Because,
even though it's a song that'sbeen done into the ground, I
always felt that I had somethingdifferent to say with it and

(51:33):
because I was such a Hendrixfanatic, I could kind of weave
into giving Jimmy homage, butnot doing that thing we were
talking about earlier, whereit's like you're doing the exact
same thing, Um, and and Iremember back in the day a lot
of the blues guys in the areawould be like, oh, you play too
many notes, and I'd be likeJesus really, I mean.
And then I'd listen back tothis.
I'm like it is so restrained incomparison to what passes for
blues.
Now, you know what I mean it'slike and so I think it's a.

(51:58):
There's a generational thingwhere it's like.
You know there was some peoplelike, well, you play anything
more than a certain amount ofnotes, then you're too many
notes.
But I would say, well, what'stoo many notes nowadays is
really too many.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
This was a conversation that I wanted to
have with you when I saw you inToledo, because I have three
players in mind that I wanted toask you and we won't do it now
because this is personal, but Iwanted to have your take on.
There's a few players who whoare popular now that I don't
particularly get, but you knowI'd love to have your take and

(52:40):
that's that's a subject, subjectfor another conversation.
But uh, yeah, I mean, you knowI I think one of the things that
you do very well is is youyou're able to take your vast
knowledge of the guitar and youyou do have a incredible
knowledge and you go, you'recapable of going a lot of

(53:00):
different directions, but youhave been able to um with the
particular songs that you write,channel that into a great
listening experience, and Idon't think you go too far out
there, like some of the players.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
Oh well, thank you, I appreciate that Sure.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
That's the truth.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
Because you know I like to.
As I said, you know I listen tostuff.
I want it to be something Iwant to listen to, and I find
myself, if I listen to backrecordings of me, like a live
recording and I go off onsomething I'm like, well, I
don't want to hear that as much.
So I'm always kind of in thepoint where you're always
self-editing but I think we alldo that, am I right?
You listen back and-edit,always self-editing and trying

(53:46):
to figure out what we shouldkeep in and what we should take
out.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
Right, I mean that takes place in all art really.
I mean writing, creativewriting, art.
Yeah, that's why there areeditors, right, because it's
very often that very very thingthat makes, uh, good work great
right, exactly.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
Well.
What do you have planned forthe foreseeable future here?
What's coming up?

Speaker 2 (54:18):
you're just kind of taking it easy for a little bit
I'm not well and if you'retalking about I'm not really
going to travel over the nextfew months, and there's various
reasons for that.
But I am concentrating on Ihave a backlog of material and

(54:40):
so you know, my record's beenout about two and a half months
now.
So you know the life of these,these things.
You never know after the threemonth period whether it's going
to be continue to be listened toor whether it's going to start,
you know, diminishing.
So one has to think about okay,what am I going to do next?
Not easy if you have somethingthat and I was so fortunate with

(55:05):
this record that really justgreat reviews, great reviews.
So I have to take intoconsideration that, ok, what did
I do that deserved to get greatreviews?
And can I do that again?
Right, right, you know, withthe same record again.
So I do have a backlog ofmaterial and right now I just I

(55:26):
reset up my studio in my housebecause we had a lot of storms
here recently and my studio tookon water and so we pulled
everything out of there and Ihave to do some major
redesigning of the studio beforeI can go back in there again,
but I'm able to work in thehouse.
So that's what I plan to bedoing over the next couple of

(55:47):
months.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
Nice.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
Reporting new stuff and and looking at what I've got
in the can Editing, editing,editing.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
I look forward to hearing it dog on it and I also.
If you ever wanted to doanother gig even if we were down
in Nashville and did somethingdown there we'd love to do it,
because that was just so fun.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
Count me in.
Count me in.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
That'd be good.
Clean, that would be good.

Speaker 2 (56:10):
Yeah, Before we go talk to us.

Speaker 1 (56:11):
Talk to us a little bit about what's going on with
your new Reverend guitar.
You got a new one, right, I do.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
It is the, what they call, or what we've decided on,
the soul agent.
And this one here is I havethis is my fourth guitar with
them and the others were sort ofleaning more into my artistic

(56:39):
Art Deco influences and so, andthen Joe Neller would add his
reverend thing and his you know,sonic thing.
So this time they asked me whatI wanted to do and I said, well
, I'd like to do something thatis a little more traditionally

(57:01):
reverend and still retain someof my ideas and still retain
some of my ideas.
And so we came up with the P90in the neck humbucker and the
bridge combo, the double agentkind of format.
And then we have the black andwhite check binding which is

(57:22):
hold over from this soul shaker,the last version, and went back
to a toggle switch and kept thevigs v and uh.
We've got push, pull knobs onthis one which give you the
single coil sound with stillbeing in humbucking mode and out
of phase sound gotta have thatout of phase sound.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
Yeah, I love the out of phase thing.
It's, it's.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
I know you do.
You've got that on your model.
Yeah, it sounds great.
It makes the guitar realversatile.
So yeah, so far they're doingpretty good and I think yours
are doing very well.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
Yeah, they're doing pretty good.
We've got a new one coming soon.
As soon as there's enough instock, they're going to announce
it, which I think will be lateron this this year.
I just I've got a couple hereand I can't wait to start, but
ken's like, don't play them,because if you play them people
are going to be bugging us.
I'm like yeah, but I just wantto play it I've seen it.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
I won't let the cat out of the bag.
I've seen it and I and I knowabout it.
Yes, I haven't played one yetor heard one yet, but as soon as
they become available, I'vealready asked Ken to send me one
.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
Excellent.
Well, let me know what youthink when you get it.
Oh yeah, yeah, I'm lookingforward to getting it out there.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
I have a model in mind for a possible future
Reverend too, that I don't thinkhas been done yet, which we'll
see.
We'll see what happens, but Ithink that, you know, having the
artist's input is really a verygood thing.
They come up with somethingthat's unique, like yours.
Your ideas are then.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
Well, I tell you what I really enjoyed your soul,
shakeraker, and I had the darkerone.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
That Mick Fleetwood actually owns now.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
Yeah that Mick Fleetwood buys.
It's like I didn't want to sellit, but when you said Mick
Fleetwood wanted it, I was likeI almost felt compelled to do it
.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
Yeah, well, that's okay, he loves it.
You know he has it on displayAwesome, that's okay, he loves
it.
You know he has it on displayAwesome, it's very cool, awesome
.

Speaker 1 (59:30):
That's pretty wild.
Yeah, it was pretty wild whenthey were good guitars.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
They were really good guitars.
I love the Soul Shaker.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
Yeah, it's cool.

Speaker 2 (59:37):
Very Les Paul-like.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
Les Paul-esque Exactly.
Well, you know what, and it wasa very, it was very, like all
the Reverend guitars.
I mean there are a lot of bangfor the buck, if we're honest.
I mean it's you know, to get aguitar as you made me think of
it with the Les Paul thing,because I mean really good Les
Pauls these days, man, that's alot of money.

Speaker 2 (59:59):
And to get a guitar like the Soul Shaker with
everything it brought to thetable, for, uh, for less than
two thousand dollars is prettyamazing yeah, I think that's
that's one of the strong pointsof reverend guitars is they're
able to make quality instrumentsthat give you, you know, the
best of all those worlds, allthe sonic worlds, and keep the

(01:00:24):
price down to what you know, theaverage player or collector can
easily get together.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
Plus, it's a family vibe with that company.
Having done the, I did theFender thing for so many years
and I don't regret it.
It was a great experience.
I was never an officialemployee of offender but it was
a big part of my income for agood you know 15 years where I
would go all over the place kindof flying their flag and doing

(01:00:55):
clinics and whatnot.
But you know, when you, thosecorporations are not companies
you can grow old with, let's putit that way it's.
It's one of those things whereas soon as there's a, as soon as
there's a change in the guard,next thing you know it's like,
okay, who's the youngest andbest that we can get in here to
champion the brand, where it'slike, well, you know you can

(01:01:15):
find the new young person, butalso pay homage and keep the
people around that are stillvalid, that are doing stuff for
you and you know and that's notto say that they don't per se,
but it's like with myaffiliation with Fishman, it's
like when you're dealing withthe people that own the company
on a regular basis and it's moreof a family thing.
It's just a better vibe overall.

(01:01:37):
As far as the-.
Yeah, it's a pleasantexperience.
Yeah, exactly, I mean they meanwhat they say.
It's a family thing.
It's more about music than that.
I mean it's with with everybusiness that comes down to, to
money, of course.
But uh, as I like to say, it'snot all about the money, but it
is a little bit, but there's.
There's more of a you know doingthe right thing and treating

(01:01:58):
people right, as opposed to moreof that corporate kind of
bottom line thing which wouldnot you agree right, it would,
yeah, absolutely and that's goodby god, because there's already
there's enough of thatcorporate skullduggery going on
everywhere.
But um hey, what are you goingto do?
It's the nature of the?

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
how much are you?
Are you?
Are you guys continuing to hitthat mighty highway and that
magnificent uh gristle?

Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
yes, well, we are going to go out again July 11th,
I believe we go out and we'redoing it's kind of a
action-packed two and a halfweek West Coast run.
So we're going to start hereand then go St Louis, kansas
City, denver, albuquerque,phoenix, LA, san Diego, and then

(01:02:46):
we go up to the Kansas City,denver, albuquerque, phoenix, la
, san Diego, and then we go upto the Bay Area, do Santa Cruz,
berkeley, and then we go up toPortland and then Seattle and
then go home.
so it's a lot of driving butit's a lot of fun yeah, exactly,
we stay with this really nicecouple and we have this
beautiful house in Venice Beach.

(01:03:06):
Yeah, exactly, we stay withthis really nice couple in.
They have this beautiful housein Venice beach and so every
time we're in SouthernCalifornia we stay there for
several days and we usually dolike a house concert for them on
their roof, and all theirneighbors come over and and
we're, you know, a few blocksaway from the beach.
So we stay.
It's just an awesome experience.

(01:03:28):
Tom and Mandy, if you'relistening, thank you.
We always, we always have agood time.
So we're going to stay with themfor a couple of couple of three
, four days, and so that'll be anice little thing.
That breaks it up so that theend is kind of helter, skelter,
where we got to kind of makesome long drives.
But you know, I don't mind it,I don't mind the driving, you
know, and it's just Dylan and Iand Toby, so there's no drama.

(01:03:49):
You know we enjoy working.
So you know, when we get there,you know we're hauling our own
gear, we're setting up our ownmerge, we're taking care of
business, but the reward is islike, you know, people are only
coming there to hear us play ourmusic.
They're not there like, oh look, there's a band here and you
know it's some kind of a sportsbar or something.
They're coming therespecifically to see us, do hear

(01:04:09):
us do our thing.
Shows are usually early, youknow.
We start at eight.
We'll do, like you know, a twohour set all in and then I'll
sell the merch, hang out with abunch of the folks and then we
pack up and off to the nextdestination.
So it's.
It keeps us on our toes andit's a lot of fun, and we end up
making dough, which everyone'slike.
I always enjoy hearing thecomments.

(01:04:30):
Greg's wife must have a reallygood day job.
Like, hey pal, I'm doing justfine.
Not that there would beanything wrong with that other
scenario, but we have managed todo it in such a way where you
know we're making money, whichis good which is good.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
Yeah, and you know, nobody thinks about the 20 years
of you know experience thatwent into developing that work
plan, getting it to where youhave it now, so that it's a
science Exactly.
You've worked it out for youand you've made it work.
So not everybody can do that,that's for sure.
There's certain elements thatrestrict me from wanting to do
it that you have figured out.

(01:05:13):
You have a great man, you'vegot a great vehicle, you've got,
you know, there's a lot ofelements that have to come
together to make it make sense.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
And if those aren't there, then it can very easily
not make sense for you to dothat exactly, I think, when it,
when it first dawned on usbecause I was always of the mind
that it was it was not viablefinancially.
I mean, everyone I talked islike listen, most and most of
the gigs that you know got us inthe door to most of the kind of
really cool clubs.
They're all door deals.

(01:05:45):
So if you're, you're going outwith no guaranteed income and uh
and that's of course someonewho's been doing it for a long
time You're like I'm not leavingthe house for not a guaranteed
income.
But my, my um agent at the timewas like listen, we can get you
some guarantees.
He goes, but the guarantees aregoing to be low and then the

(01:06:05):
backend money is going to be thedeal's going to be shit.
So all you'll make is thatguarantee, whereas if you go in
and you take a little bit ofrisk and you get all the back
end, then you could make someserious dough and that has
worked.
And so the first time we wentout, I remember I just had my
Honda Odyssey and we took outone of the seats.

(01:06:28):
So we had three seats in theHonda minivan and back then Toby
would just take his digital B3,but with the actual 145, leslie
.
But we would pack.
I packed two Vibraluxes,dylan's little drum kit, toby's
rig, all of our luggage andmerch into a Honda Odyssey and

(01:06:49):
we drove around and that firsttour that we did was right
before COVID.
And when we got back from thattour I realized, holy shit, we
made money.
I mean, this actually works.
So then I figured it waspossible.
But then of course COVIDhappened and no one did anything
for for years.
And then after that we you knowToby had his, um, his Tahoe,

(01:07:12):
that he got uh with a trailer,and then we had the vehicle
thing sussed out.
And then because of that wetook, we just said yes to
everything and we started goingout and we realized, holy shit,
we're able to make dough, uh.
But then of course we got toomany miles on Toby's vehicle and
we had to figure out the nextvehicle situation.
And that was, that was aconundrum.
You know, do I get anothervehicle like a Tahoe and then

(01:07:34):
get a trailer?
And then there's that wholething of trailers are a hassle
and yada, yada, yada.
And then I worked out gettingthis, that, that Ford Transit,
and that was not without itsdrama.
But yeah, to your point,there's a lot of moving parts
that have to work and then, ofcourse, just having the band
that's ready to go at a drop ofa hat.
You know I've got, you know, myson and I got Toby, who have a

(01:07:54):
situation where, uh, it's justknown that I just say yes to
everything and they'll just makeroom for it, and that's that in
and of itself is almost is a,is a walking miracle.
Exactly correct.
So, yes, I'm very, veryfortunate that all of those
things are the case.
And then, of course, the otherthing is that we've got a lot of

(01:08:15):
merch too, and the merch, thekind of merch that we have, and
the people's desire to buy it,or can really make a mediocre
night a good night.
So all of those moving partstogether make it work.
So, yes, it's, it's, uh, it is,it's definitely a science.

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
It's the only science apparently I understand well, I
congratulate on your when youfiguring out the uh, you know
that equation and and making itwork for you.

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
Well, we're having a good time.
So we're going to on doing itand hopefully this new
relationship we've got goingwith I'm doing this thing with
Devin Allman and Devin's gotthis his label and had some
really good experiences with himand that whole Allman Betts,
you know organization has beenvery, very helpful and awesome.
So I think with thataffiliation, you know just, and

(01:09:05):
again I I just want to wrapthings up just a little bit you
know I don't have any delusionsof grandeur because I understand
the bigger you get, the morepeople you have to hire, the
more overhead you have, the morerisks you got to take.
And if we're pulling it off now, it just ratchet it up just 15%
and I'm good.
I hear you.

Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
I hear you yeah, a lot of people don't understand
that that you know that bird inthe hand is, uh is very valuable
and you know a lot of times yougo outside the box there, you
enter into a whole nother worldof problems and maybe, maybe you
were happier back the way itwas originally.

Speaker 1 (01:09:49):
Well, my wife said something interesting today.
We were over having coffee thismorning and she goes hey, did
you hear the Black Keys canceledtheir tour.
I was like what she goes?
Yeah, apparently ticket saleswere too low and I'm like, holy
shit, can you imagine that Aband that's that well-known?
But of course all it takes is,well, let's try for the next
bigger room and book all thebigger rooms and then not

(01:10:10):
selling it then having to cancelthe tour.
I'd rather just, hey, let'sbook an okay sized room that we
know will fill.
What's wrong with that?

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
that's right.
That's right.
You and you know you've gotyour hand on every, on all the
aspects of you know you, you're,you've pretty much got it under
your control and not somebodyelse's.

Speaker 1 (01:10:31):
Right, exactly, which is key, Because the more people
you have involved, the more theexpectations are, and then the
less you lose control and thenyou're just yeah, but we know.

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
We know the story.

Speaker 1 (01:10:44):
Well, listen, my friend so great talking with you
.
Thanks for taking some time towrap today.
It was glorious as always, mypleasure Always, and let's try
to work on something where weget together again sooner than
later.

Speaker 2 (01:10:58):
All right.
Anytime you're down in thisarea, count me in if you're up
for it.
All right Sounds good, myfriend.

Speaker 1 (01:11:03):
Well, you take care of yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
We'll talk to you soon.

Speaker 1 (01:11:05):
You got it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:06):
Have a good one, rick , you too.
Bye-bye, bye.

Speaker 1 (01:11:12):
Thank you so much, folks, for tuning in.
Special thank you to WildwoodGuitars of Louisville, colorado,
and the mighty FishmanTransducers for making this
podcast possible.
If you enjoyed yourself, ladiesand gentlemen, please subscribe
and review so that people canget the word out that this is
worth experiencing.

(01:11:33):
Can you dig it?
Thanks again.
We'll see you soon or you'llhear me soon.