Van Wilks

Get ready for an unforgettable ride as we catch up with Texas blues rock legend Van Wilks, right here on Chewing the Gristle. From the sweltering Austin heat, Van shares captivating tales from his vibrant musical journey, including the moment he first saw the Beatles on Ed Sullivan in Lubbock. You'll hear all about his memorable performance at the Dallas International Guitar Show and the rich musical tapestry of his early years, influenced by his uncles' country swing bands and the dynamic Texas music scene.

Van takes us through the evolution of music from the 1940s to today, reflecting on the charm of vinyl records and analog recordings, and the creative potential of modern music technology. We explore the motivations behind musicians' careers, the struggle to maintain artistic integrity, and the strategic branding necessary in today's digital age. Personal anecdotes about legends like Stevie Ray Vaughan and ZZ Top give insight into the blues' impact on rock and heavy metal, while highlighting the importance of staying true to one's musical vision.

Finally, Van paints a vivid picture of life on the road with music legends. From Texas barbecues with Jimmy Page and Joe Cocker to performing at the Montreux Jazz Festival, his stories are filled with humor, challenges, and triumphs. We reflect on the shifting music industry landscape, from physical albums to streaming, and the enduring joy of live performances. Whether you're a fan of classic rock, blues, or contemporary music, this episode offers a captivating glimpse into Van Wilks' storied career and the cultural backdrop that shaped his music.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
At long last.
Ladies and gentlemen, seasonfive of Chewing the Gristle is
indeed upon us, a convivialconversation fest between myself
, gregory S Caulk, esquire and avariety of musical potentates
from hither and yon, brought toyou by our friends at Wildwood
Guitars and our friends atFishman Transducers, of course,

(00:32):
both of which I've hadlong-standing and continuing
relationships with, and I'm verygrateful for their continued
support in this endeavor tobring you Chewing the Dog on
Gristle.
We've got a bunch of fun guests, some you have heard of, some
maybe not so much.
It'll be a little bit ofdiscovery and a little bit of
chaos all rolled into one.

(00:53):
Thanks for tuning in folks.
Now, without any further ado,let's chew some gristle.
This week, on Chewing theGristle, we've got a Texas blues
rock guitar potentating legend,the mighty Van Wilkes.
We're going to get a littletaste of that Austin, texas,

(01:16):
town.
Tune on in as it's about tobegin.
Ladies and gentlemen, boys andgirls, it is time once again to
choose some doggone gristle.
We have Texas blues guitarpotentate and one hell of a cool

(01:37):
cat, van Wilkes, with us todayto choose some gristle.
Are you down in Austin, texas,right now?

Speaker 2 (01:44):
I am in Austin, texas , just waiting for the heat to
start.
Took the dog out for a walk alittle earlier and had to run
back for the air conditioning.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
Yes, Now how warm is it right there, at this
particular juncture in time, ifyou have to?

Speaker 2 (02:01):
ask.
No, it's probably around 90,already 91.
So it's hot.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
It does get a little juicy down there.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
Makes us play faster.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Well, actually slower .
So we gather today to just kindof catch up, see what you're
doing.
I saw you for a minute inbeautiful Dallas, Texas, at the
Dallas International Guitar Show.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
And you're always rocking.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
You're always rocking and rolling and I dig it all.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Well, coming from you , that's quite the honor,
because you know all them fancychords.
Like John Lee Hooker said,throw them fancy cords away.
I don't want to be here becauseI tell those young kids throw
them fancy cords away.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
Throw them, fancy cords in the garbage.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
I kid the fancy cord, but I do like it.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
You know what it's good for your colon.
Apparently, fancy cords makefor a resilient entrail.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah, you hit that right interval and you'll be
blowing it out for hours.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah, wow, I just thought of a good name for a
band resilient entrails.
That sounds like a.
It could be a thing.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
I think somebody has already done that Along with the
band mucus and sucking chestwound.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
Yes, I like it all.
So you are a bona fide Texanfrom start to finish.
Now, you were born originallyin Galveston, correct?
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (03:33):
1951.
So yeah, I've served my time onthis planet, Still hoping to
serve a little bit more.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, galveston was quite the place back then,
although I was too young to knowabout it, but it was a big uh.
In the forties and fifties theMaceo's ran it.
Uh, incredible stories that mydad would tell me because he ran
the JC Penny store andprostitution was pretty much
legal gambling.
Um, but my dad said it was thesafest place in the world

(04:05):
because the gangster guys reallyran a tight ship.
There was a very famous placecalled the Balinese Room which
was immortalized in a ZZ Topsong.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
Down at the Balinese.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, and I luckily got to play there before it blew
away in a hurricane.
But they had people in the 40sand 50s like Sinatra and it was
a big, big deal and they hadthese.
It was on a pier and to load inyou had to walk about.
It seemed like half a mile, butprobably a quarter of a mile
out over the water.

(04:37):
And then there was therestaurant and back then in the
40s and 50s before my time, thegaming tables and my dad told me
stories about that being thereand it's very eloquent, and
you're all dressed up drinkingmixed drinks with little
umbrellas in them and all kindsof things, and they'd have top
flight entertainment from Vegas.

(04:58):
But then the Texas Rangerswould come in to try to bust the
place so they'd turn the tablesover and just act like, oh, the
Rotary Club is here, and theband would hit.
The spotlight, would hit theRangers when they walked in and
started playing the eyes ofTexas Arp on you and it just
really pissed them off andfinally they did shut them down

(05:21):
and threw all the gaming tablesinto the Gulf.
So it's nothing now but fishout there.
Is there still?
the pier that it was once on Oneof those iconic Texas places
that could kind of only happenat the Gulf Coast because it was
wide open territory then.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
It was wild times, wild times.
So how much did you grow up inGalveston before you moved to
other places?

Speaker 2 (05:47):
Oh God, we moved when I was about three and then I to
Brownwood, and then I.
Then we went to Lubbock in 60,right before the Beatles.
So that's what changed my life.
I say I served time in Lubbockfrom the third grade to the
ninth grade, which would havebeen like 59 to 66.
So, prime, you know, watchingEd Sullivan, seeing the Beatles,

(06:09):
which people my age.
It was a life-changing event,right Like that black and white
TV sitting on the floor inLubbock and luckily I was I had
uncles that played music.
They were in country swing bandsin the ths and 40s and worked
at music stores and so theytaught me a lot like, turned me

(06:29):
on to Bob Wills and HankWilliams and all that stuff
which was just the basiclearning jumping off part.
You know, here's a C chord, ohcool.
And then the Beatles hit and itwas a game changer, just for
everybody.
I'm certainly not unique inthat situation, but I'm lucky to
have grown up in that time whenit was so exciting and so

(06:52):
changing the society changedress, change clothing, guitar
the guitar industry finallybecame an industry, I mean of
the Beatles.
They started selling, everybodywanted one and if you were too
skinny to play football and gotbeat up.
You know, if you didn't playfootball, then guitars.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
Guitars was the thing .
So when you were in Lubbock.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
Did you ever encounter Bobby Keys in your
initial years?
He was from Slayton, which iswhere my dad is from, so we'd go
down there every Sunday.
Of course he's older was olderthan me, but no, never did.
We moved when I was in theninth grade.
Oh, okay, back to Brownwood,center of Texas, the dead center
of Texas.
But it was a cool little Texastown to grow up in and we were

(07:41):
of course without too much hubhubris.
We were the hot band in townthe midnight yes, I mean, how
could we not be?
and we'd play the starlight club, which was a really rough place
, where willie nelson playedbefore he was famous and our
dads would let us go out there,take us out there, and uh, still

(08:03):
remember the smell of stalebeer, yes, but you know, all of
that's a learning experience, uh, and and uh.
What blows my mind now isthinking we played the same
songs then as you hear every dayon classic rock stations right,
which you know, know, the kinks, the Beatles, uh, all those

(08:24):
guys, all that, all the peopleback then.
It's a testament to that time.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
I mean, I do comment.
I do comment on this quite abit with with friends and stuff,
and we shoot the shit and wetalk about the fact that you
know, when you think about whatour parents listened to, uh, you
know, my dad was born in 1923.
My mom, born in, I think 27right.
So you know they had all themusic, big band era, so on and

(08:51):
so forth started to have kids.
But when you think about themusic in 1967 versus the music
in 1947 it's like completelydifferent.
But if you think about themusic now versus the music in
1967, it's really not all thatdifferent.
I mean, you hear a lot of thesame material, yeah, and they're
and they're constantly finding,uh, new youngins to just kind

(09:13):
of carry the flag for that sametemplate.
For the most part exactly uh,yeah, I'm.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
I'm really lucky that I grew up in that era and I was
a member of the Columbia RecordClub, so I still have every
record that I ever bought and Iwas that nerdy guy that put
dates on albums, and so it's funto grab Sgt Pepper June 6th
1967, or June whatever.
And I know I'm sure music hasthe same effect on you.

(09:44):
It takes you back immediately.
You hear a song like we ain'tgot nothing yet, the blues,
magoos or somebody, and you go,oh God, I remember that girl
that dumped me the cheerleader.
I don't like that song anymore.
It's difficult to listen to asong even though you love the
song, but the way it mentallytakes you back to a time which

(10:08):
is either wonderful to relive orhell on earth to relive, right,
I?

Speaker 1 (10:14):
found it, even though I, kind of you know, I don't
champion all the differentarguments of well, this
particular format was superiorand is the only one to listen to
.
But I will say that it's evenmore so when you listen to a
record that you grew up with, asopposed to just listening to a

(10:34):
digital file on your phone orsomething like that yeah you put
that record on.
It's like a visceraltransformation back to the day.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
Oh, I can't tell you how much I recently moved, after
23 years.
So I'm still in the process ofmaking a shrine to myself in my
little studio, you know all thatand uh, and so I finally got my
turntable hooked up last weekand I just went over and I
didn't blindfold myself, but Ijust grabbed a Beatle album and

(11:04):
it was yesterday.
What was it?
The one that had the Butchercover on Beatle 6.
Okay, today, and I just put iton and it still sounded
incredible.
Yeah, it just did.
And okay, there's a few littlepops and hisses and devil sounds
coming out of it, but you can'tbeat it.

(11:26):
So I'm glad I saved all myrecords.
Uh, it's.
I want to have a listeningnight some night to get all the
different eras, like the, like66, 7 and 8, like, uh, the, the
so-called psychedelic era, yes,and a bunch of those, and I
don't.
I guess they'd withstand thetest of time.

(11:48):
Sometimes they don't.
You know sometimes somethingyou liked back.
Then you go, oh gosh, well, Imean, we come in and out of
phases of music and life thatyou know, but it's fun to hear a
song that you haven't heard ina long time and go, oh, that's
where I learned that lick right,totally or I will put on an

(12:10):
album and go oh wait a minute,that's dickie betts.
I thought I did that really.
I mean that has happened before, absolutely absolutely well
it's.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
Also it's interesting to listen to some records that
you used to think were like theepitome of flawlessness and now
you listen back to it and you'relike, oh no, no, I can hear
this, that and the next thing.
But that's even moreencouraging to just say, yeah,
just leave that shit in, becausethat's what makes it glorious
yeah, like, uh, uh, what's thesqueaky kick drum?

Speaker 2 (12:44):
on uh, sometimes I just don't understand how could
they could let that go by, right, but still we're talking about
it right now.
So maybe they said here's amarketing approach, let's have a
squeaky kick drum pedal Right,and people be talking about it
50 years from now.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
Well, I like another Zeppelin classic clam is on the
first record and uh, whenthey're doing, uh, I can't quit
you baby and he goes to thatchord change and he goes like a
little bit too early or whatever, oh yeah yeah and he goes yeah,
we'll just keep that in which Ithought awesome yeah, and the
flatness of some vocals, likeI'm not one to talk, but you

(13:25):
know, like, oh gosh, get yourshoulder up there right yeah,
but yeah different times by god.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
Different times and to think that it would be fun to
try to make a record now with afour-track machine and hardly
any overdubs and still have itas warm and big fat sounding as
well those early Zeppelin or theBeatles, all that stuff.

(13:52):
How in the world did they dothat?
Now we have a pedal that willsimulate anything, right, but I
do like pedals.
I'm not going to knock thepedal.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
They are fun.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
They have their moments.
It's like painting in black andwhite or painting in color.
You know, I just, I tell theyounger folk, just don't let
them use you, you use them.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
I like to say I like using pedals and I like not
using pedals.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
I do like to say if I had one more pedal, I'd really
be good.
Just one more.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
Come on.
Well, it's amazing the pile ofpedals I have.
I'm sure you're the same, oh my.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
God, once again in this move I found boxes of
pedals that I used throughoutthe 70s that now I go and reverb
like an electric mistress.
Right, oh, that's $ thousanddollars.
Yeah, really, but I like it.
Yeah, it's crazy stuff thepolice used.

(14:54):
And uh, james honeyman scottfrom the pretenders, oh, yeah,
oh man, I was a big pretendersfan and he played great parts.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
Those tunes were great yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
He was great.
He dated a girl from Austin, sowe were buddies, oh no kidding.
Yeah, Tragic, tragic.
That he, you know, left us sosoon makes you wonder what he'd
be doing now.
But he was quite the characterand no holes barred for that guy
.
But what a two in one.

(15:26):
One or two records I don't knowhow many he did with the
pretenders, maybe just that oneI think it was, I think maybe
two?
okay, I hope so, but toestablish a, a tonality and a
style that we can still alludeto.
To now.
You know, it's incredible.
If only I could leave that kindof uh something behind where

(15:48):
they go.
Oh, that's that VWS smashedunder a rug bug, under a rug
tone.

Speaker 1 (15:58):
Well, you know what?
We're still alive and kicking,and that's the important thing.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
Yeah, we're doing what we love to do.
I always say if I would've gotinto this for the money, I would
have quit a long time ago.
Well, there's that.
But you know, once it's in you,it's like it's heavier than any
drug on earth.
I mean, the music bug that's.
Uh.
One thing that bothers me, orthat I've had to think about, is

(16:25):
why am I still doing it at 73years old?
And it's because I don't knowhow to do anything else for one
thing, and I love it.
But I wonder about guys overthe years that we were on the
verge of something goodhappening, and like when I
signed with ZZ Top Company andwe toured relentlessly, and, and

(16:48):
then we got a deal with Mercuryand then that fell through.
Well, I mean, no, we did tourall over the place with it and
sold, oh, probably 800 albums.
No, I don't know, it was in thethousands, which I'm very proud
of, sure.
But the guys that just finallyquit, now, it's okay if they
quit us, the thousands, whichI'm very proud of, sure.
But the guys that just finallyquit, now, it's okay if they
quit us, the band, but then theyjust quit playing, totally,

(17:11):
yeah, and I don't get it.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
I don't get it either .

Speaker 2 (17:15):
My little thing is you get into this for fun when
you're young or I don't know.
You start for fun, then itbecomes an obsession, right, and
then it becomes a business.
And when business goes south,then you start reevaluating.
But I tell these guys or justthought, maybe I didn't say it,

(17:38):
but God, why don't you, can'tyou just still have fun with it?
It's cathartic, it's, it'stherapy, it's right, and sure
it's tough if you're trying tomake a living doing it.
But God, just remember why youstarted this and embrace that,
embrace the talent you've gotand, do you know, have fun, go
go ahead and work at Chick-fil-A, but, um, which might not be a

(18:00):
bad idea.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
The spicy chicken sandwich is a delight.
I'm just going to.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
And you don't have to work on Sundays.
Well, there you go, but anyway,I hope you get my point about.
You know why we're there's.
I don't know if you can put atag on it of why we do this, but
I think I'm right about youstart out for fun and it becomes
an obsession and a business,and then you got to start

(18:26):
thinking about it instead ofjust having fun with it.
So I'm trying to, I guess, tosum it up, I'm trying to have
fun again, and for the last fewyears, and um and and enjoy it.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
It's.
You know, it's an interestingthing.
I was having lunch with a buddyof mine yesterday and, um, and
we were conversing about, um,just kind of that thing of
musicians and differentmotivations and why someone
quits and why someone doeswhatever, and and uh, I think

(18:58):
everyone of course has theirdifferent motivations.
I mean, I've always beenperplexed by folks who, um, are
constantly, um, you know,chasing whatever the
contemporary thing is, whetherit's the current cover flavor,
whatever the thing may be there.
They're constantly morphing totry to be on the cutting edge of

(19:22):
hip and happening and so on andso forth.
Yeah, um, and really having nomusical identity other than I'm
going to do what it takes to bepopular, uh, which is which is
fine and dandy.
For me, it's always been what'sthe least I can.
Going to do what it takes to bepopular, which is fine and
dandy.
For me, it's always been what'sthe least I can do to conform.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
How can I go about making the least amount of money
in this business?
Well, I've always said my lackof direction is my direction,
which meaning to me is kind of akiss of death, for if you're
going to be and what, the term Ijust really hate is the music

(19:59):
industry.
I hate that.
But anyway, my lack ofdirection is my direction,
meaning, ok, why can't you playa blues shuffle and then go into
something a little more cosmicand the same, why can't you
stretch out?
Uh, case in point, the Beatlescould get away with that, you
know, rubber soul being mostlyacoustic, and they proved.

(20:23):
But, uh, I'm not the Beatles,so but I do like, like all my
records have like aninstrumental, then they'll have
a bluesy thing Sometimes.
I wish I could be Pigeonholesaying you're a blues band or a
blues.
I never wanted to be a bluesband, but a blues rock band for

(20:46):
sure.
Right, embrace that.
But I had a.
Did you ever go to meet him?
And and can?
It's the big international musicfestival where, uh, all the
publishers are m-i-d-e-m.
I don't know.
Anyway, the uh, lone wolfpublishing company, bill ham,

(21:09):
sent me there one year and so soI had this CD, the first CD I'd
done and it was a picture of meon the cover holding a Dobro
and I thought it was kind ofarty looking, you know, and just
had a kind of a feel to it.
And this guy that ran a recordcompany in Germany said, well,

(21:29):
what are you?
An acoustic player?
I said, well, not really.
I mean, I do this and this andthis and this and this, right?
But he said, well, this islooking like you're a, you just
play dobro and that's all.
So I learned something fromthat.
You know like, just don't evenput a picture of me on the damn
cover, That'll help.
A lot.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
Well, yeah, I know what you're saying.
I mean that'll help a lot.
Well, yeah, I know what you'resaying.
I mean it's like we think thatpeople do a modicum of homework
and they really don't.
So you gotta, you gotta, spoonfeed exactly what you want.
And uh, and I've known that fora long time and I just, I still
just refuse to do it.
It's like what else the least Ican do, and that's not.

(22:13):
That's not a what I'm saying.
Of course I'm not being lazy, Imean.
I mean I, the desire to, um,you know, do the lowest hanging
fruit at all times is justsomething that I'm like.
Well, that's not my jobdescription.
There's other people that cando that.
You know, I'm yeah, I'm tofollow my thing.
I mean, just like when my I hadthis band, you, which is still

(22:35):
my main touring ensemble, withmy son and with Toby Marshall,
called it Cock Marshall Trio.
But then we were realizingpeople weren't making the
connection that it was me.
So now we have to say we haveto say it's Greg Cock and Cock
Marshall Trio, and that's not anego thing from my point of view
, it's trio, and that's not anego thing from my point of view.

(23:00):
It's like, oh, otherwise peopledon't know where the fuck it is
.
You know exactly.
And then, and then of courseyou got people who and then the
whole problem with you knowsomething like spotify when they
segregate everything by whattitle it is on the cover of the
record.
So I had to completely gothrough my whole back catalog
because I had, you know, gregcaulk and the toneone Controls
Greg Cock Band, greg Cock andOther Bad Men.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
Greg, you know all these different things.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
And they were all segregated into these sub things
.
So then I had to have my wifedo the artwork again on all the
different records and just sayGreg Cock.
And we still had two recordsout as Cock Marshall Trio.
But now we just release themunder my name so that people can
find them.
Well, that's a smart thing todo.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
Yeah, it's so hard when you think you know a path
to follow.
I have watched a couple ofbands follow the trends and be
incredibly successful One, ourfriend ZZ Top.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
Right.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
You know, billy and I used to go to bars and in the
day well, I don't wear a watch,but he still does and we would
sit and time the band's song for15 seconds, then multiply it by
four and see what the beats perminute were Right.
And at that time he wasstudying, along with an engineer

(24:23):
friend of him, his LyndonHudson like what songs out there
right now that are hits, whatis that beats per minute?
And one of the prime exampleswas the Stones doing Miss you,
right, you know that disco beat,that kind of four on the floor
thing.
But Billy did write SharpDressed man Legs around 120, 130

(24:48):
.
I forgot what the BPM is Right.
So that to me is still beingtrue to what you do, sure, but
just kind of trying to keep upwith the times, right
Rhythmically, I mean that's all.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
It was Right, exactly .

Speaker 2 (25:03):
So I'm all for that, and it's fun just to put on a
drum machine and go, because itwon't argue with you like your
band.
It also won't stop when you.
You got to keep up with it, butit's.
It's a fun exercise for me totry to just get a beat going and

(25:23):
go.
Okay, play something, playsomething.
You know, as people often yellout at me at clubs.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
Well, you know you were mentioning your kind of
frustration with, you know,pigeonholing, as far as you know
what's blues, what's not blues.
And let's just touch on thatfor a minute, because that's
always been a fascinating thingfor me is that, you know, I've
always, you know the blues is atthe heart of what I've always
done.
I've always, you know, playedside at the heart of what I've
always done.
I've always, you know, playedside gigs with blues guys and

(25:55):
but I've always added, you know,my own sense of whatever to it.
And when we've had, like thefirst band I had where we were
really doing my own stuff youknow it was known as a blues
band but it was more like kindof a little feat approach to it.
Where it was, it had funkelements and some jazz elements
and other things that were goingon because I thought, well,

(26:15):
that's kind of the point, isn'tit?
I mean, it's you got to kind ofmix it up and do some some
different things, yeah, but itwould always incur the ire of
the more traditional bluesenthusiast and then you know,
god, and then you know if you'reat a blues festival and then
you always have that personyelling out play the real blues

(26:35):
or something like that, and thatjust sends me I'll just go you
wouldn't know the real blues ifit hit you in the face.
But I, but then I, but I don'ttake it personal anymore.
I'm just like okay, they, whatthey process, as what the blues
is is a very specific uh,approach 12 bar.

(26:57):
You know what I mean.
And in either a shuffle, slowblues, rumba, you know what I
mean there's very, there's a,there's a very and plus, a lot
of it is.
They only know it because it'sdressed appropriately.
You know what I mean, but that'sthat's not to say, but at the
same time I I do have a big, Ido have a warm and fuzzy for
people that function in thattraditional blues environment,

(27:21):
that write new, fresh materialbut keep it more traditional but
are also open-minded.

Speaker 2 (27:26):
They're not dicks about it, you know what I mean,
right, right, well, you shouldhave lived in Austin in 76 or so
.
Let's see, it was after TommyShannon you know who was later
with Stevie Vaughn had just gotfired from Johnny Winter and

(27:49):
done Woodstock Albert Hall.
We were forming a new band.
Some guy here in town said callyourself fools.
So we did so.
Tommy joined the band and Iremember saying to the drummer
do we want a 30-year-old guy inour band?
Ooh God, that's old, laughingat it, since I just turned 73

(28:10):
last week.
But so here comes Tommy Shannon, who had done all this stuff,
and we, we did bluesy stuff, butmainly it was a power Texas
power trio with elements of theblues, because how could it not
be?
The blues is the foundation foreverything in the world.

(28:32):
You think Led Zeppelin, jimmyhendrix, pure blues, no, but,
but boy, everything they did wasthe cornerstone, right, the
blocks was that.
And I've I've used that analogyas a teacher for many years,
when a little heavy metal bratwould come in and and I'd say

(28:52):
say well, let, let's, let meshow you.
Do you know what a one, four,five is?
Yeah, it's the number one, thenumber four.
Whether you like this or not,you, you need to have a
understanding of it, because allyour shredders out there that
you love so much, they did thisfirst right.

(29:13):
They understood the buildingblock of the blues and then you
just take that foundation andput whatever the hell you want
on top of it and it's still gotthe power and the feel of the
blues.
I remember Stevie gettingrailed for doing Jimi Hendrix
stuff Like that's not blues.
Well, red House, come on.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
Right.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
So I don't know, it gets into that semantics thing
Like oh, that's not blues,you're not wearing a stingy brim
and a velvet suit.
You know God, I don't know.
But in the 70s, mid-70s, in inaustin, I'm like you.
I say that we have survived allthe fads and we're still doing

(29:59):
what we love to do right, andI'm proud of that.
Like in the early 70s, we itwas, uh, the great cowboy
country, cosmic cowboy scare.
We called it because we were athree-piece hard rock band.
And then came disco and went,oh my God.
And then came punk and that, oh, you don't have to know how to

(30:20):
play at all, I'm going to stoppracticing my scale.
And and then what happenedafter a new Wave and all that
stuff?
Right, for better or for worse.
I'm still standing andsometimes laying down more, but

(30:43):
I really do think we survivedall the fads and kept I don't
want to say kept true toourselves, because that sounds
kind of pretentious because I'venever had a hit.
So but anyway, just.
And then the blues scene.
There were the T-Birds, right,and then we were band of the
year with Tommy Shannon in 76.
I can't believe that.

(31:03):
And then after that we won allthese awards, you know best,
blah, blah, blah.
But we were not that coolbecause there were clicks and I
don't know in your towns growingup oh, absolutely.
But my God, if you weren't, youknow.
The Antones crowd, ooh, that'sserious blues, you know, right,

(31:24):
or what they call it, consideredright.
And then there was the punkcrowd, which one time Kyle Brock
and I put together a bandcalled the lips it's when he was
playing with Eric Johnson andwe went over to Raul's and
played a set of just blisteringsloppy fun, non hard, non Texas

(31:48):
blues rock.
And right, I'm surprised wedidn't get, you know, beat up in
the parking lot or something,but but it was fun, just going,
look, we can do this.
But just these labels thatpeople put on each other, it's
in the end it's just music, butright, but yeah, and then after
that the austin chronicle wouldhave awards every year and we

(32:11):
were in the hall of fame and allthis stuff and they had these
categories, like you weretalking about with your name,
you know, like uh or me, withthat picture of me holding an
acoustic guitar.
Well, so I anyway, we were besthard rock band.
Then we were best.
Then they changed a uh acategory to best hard rock,

(32:33):
slash, heavy metal.
And so we won.
We would try to get gigs out oftown or somewhere and they go
oh, we don't do heavy metal atour club.
Right, I'd have to startbackpedaling, and I'm sure my
boys.
Well, we're not really heavymetal.
I mean, you know what do you do?
They stick a label on you andit's there.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
We interrupt this regularly scheduled gristle
infested conversation to give aspecial shout out to our friends
at Fishman Transducers, makersof the Greg Koch signature
Fluence Gristle Tone pickup setCan you dig that?
And our friends at WildwoodGuitars of Louisville, colorado,
bringing the heat in the shadowof the Rocky Mountains.

(33:16):
That's what's nice when you getto the point where you you know
, and that's one of the thingsthat I love about what the
Internet has done.
I mean, there's many differentthings that we could talk about
the pros and the cons of youknow the world after you know
the Internet and social mediaand so on and so forth.
The world after you know theinternet and social media and so
on and so forth.
But you can find your crowd andfind people that want to come

(33:38):
hear you do your thing.
And that's one thing that we'vereally noticed since hitting
the road a lot with this trio inthe States.
Quite a bit because I know I'vealways done Europe and I know
you have as well because therejust seemed to be a little bit
more of kind of aninfrastructure for touring over
there doing what we do and alittle bit more tolerance for
the blurred lines of idioms andso on and so forth.
But what I've noticed now isthey, you know it doesn't matter

(34:00):
what we play, people are comingto see us.
We catered to excellent, youknow they.
You know they're only coming tosee us where it's not like, oh
look, there's a band tonight.
You know we play clubs, orthey're only coming to see us
and we do our thing and no oneever goes.
Yeah well, it's really notblues, or you know.
Whatever the case may be, we dohave people occasionally that
will come up to the table and,as a result, I'm doing a

(34:21):
compilation thing that's more ofa blues thing of my past stuff.
People go hey, you know of yourstuff what's the most bluesy?
Yeah, that I can take.
You know what I mean, that Ican take you know what I mean,
so uh, but it's.
it's just so nice now to go outand go out and do the thing and
not have to deal, uh, with thatwhole schmageg and you know,

(34:41):
when I look at our schedule thissummer, we're only doing like a
couple of festival type ofthings.
But you know we'll do clubs andpeople will come out and see us
and we'll do our thing and it's,in a way, it's just incredibly
liberating.
Oh, thank god we got people whocome and see us do our thing
and they don't crap, they don'tgive a shit about what it's not
you know what it's not.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking of, uh, I had a label
in France interested for medoing a just a, an album with
all just hard blues rock stuff,nothing pretty kind of like your
bluesy thing you're talkingabout, and I'm going to try to
do that.

(35:24):
I don't want to.
I can't call it a greatest hitsbecause of the obvious reason.
The hits of yesterday and neveras I like to say but just
something because, like Ialluded to earlier, uh, the
there'll be a.
The lack of direction isdirection.
There'll be one kind of songand then another one and then
and then a heavy one and a hardone.

(35:46):
And I thought, well, uh, didyou ever know Richard Mullen?
He was, uh, stevie's engineeron the first couple of records
and Eric Johnson's engineer, andjust an incredible.
He did some records with me andhe passed away a few years ago,
but he was a remarkable studioengineer and we were

(36:09):
commiserating over this careerthing one night and I said, well
, I got all these differentkinds of songs.
He said, but wait a minute, thecommonality, the thread that
holds it all together, is yourguitar playing.
No matter what kind of song itis, it's still you right.
And he was under the hope not afalse impression that I had a

(36:32):
sound to him that wasidentifiable to a point and and
I thought, well, that's a niceway to put it that it does tie
in together.
But wow, another thing thisreminds me of is I was never a
big ACDC fan and before theywere really big, they played the

(36:52):
opera house here in Austin.
That's many years ago, in the70s, and I was with one of the
biggest promoters in the world,louis Messina, who now has
Taylor Swift and George Straitand that's all he does.
And I said, man, how come theseguys are so big and getting
bigger and bigger?
Now they're, you know, we allknow how big they are.
He said, well, from the firstnote to the last, you know what

(37:15):
they do, right, no doubt.
And I really thought, wow, Icommend them for that.
But I kind of personally liketo have a little you know, right
, vary it up, mix it up.
But he had a point with themand it's sure, true, you know
that's what they do you're notgoing to hear a?

Speaker 1 (37:36):
I don't know if they've done any love ballads,
but I'm not sure.
Yeah, I don't think so.
I don't think so, let me askyou this when did you first hook
up with?
Uh, the billy gibbons, bill hamcamp and?

Speaker 2 (37:46):
how did?
that all come to it was 74 andit was hot and ZZ.
Before I knew them I was a hugefan and they played the famous
romping stomping Texas barbecue.
Oh, I remember that, yeah, Iremember.

(38:06):
And Bad Company, nobody hadreally heard of them.
And Jimmy Page came out and JoeCocker threw up on stage and it
was just a fun company.
Nobody had really heard of them.
And Jimmy Page came out and JoeCocker threw up on stage and it
was just a fun fest.
But I was there by myself and wehad a gig that night at Mother
Earth with, I guess, yeah, withTommy Shannon for sure.
So I went and it was justmiserable.

(38:26):
You couldn't move your arms andyou couldn't, there was no
water and it was horrible.
So I went and about a monthlater I got this phone call
saying would you hold for BillHamm?
And I almost hung up because I,I guess I knew Bill Hamm was
the manager.
Then, yeah, I did.
But he called and said are youthat that kid that I saw at

(38:50):
Mother Earth the other night?
Yeah, I think so.
So anyway, we signed a dealwith him and we hit the road
very seriously.
You know good gigs and bad gigs,but a lot of them were stadium.
I mean, I call it thejanitorial opening act.

(39:12):
You know, for big people, youknow 30 minutes, no front lights
, no sound check, do it.
But it sure teaches you how toget on a big stage and not fall
down, sure.
So it was a great learningexperience and back then I guess
I'd do it again if it was moreorganized.
But okay, you're playing inUterus, new York tonight with.

(39:33):
Okay, you're playing in uterus,new York tonight with Bachman
Turner, overweight or OverdriveRight, and at a hockey stadium,
a hockey arena.
You know those little warmemorial things they have in the
east.
You know war memorial stadium.
So I'd say, okay, jump in thetruck, let's drive 2,000 miles
or 1,500 miles.
We wouldn't think twice aboutit, we wouldn't even ask how
much money we're getting, we'djust go Right and we had a big

(39:58):
blue box van.
It wasn't that big.
There was a driver passenger,we had a couch behind that and
then all our gear and Tommy hadtwo SV.
No, uh, acoustic, remember theacoustic so popular at the time.
He had two and then I had fourMarshall cabinets and I think we

(40:21):
had some old ZZ top road cases.
So it was.
But anyway, we slept on that.
Oh yeah, and I can't imaginewhat would have happened if the
driver had to break really hard.
Right, you would have beenflung, oh my God.
And I had uh, yeah, yeah, it'sa fond memory, but I know it was
hard as hell, but we didn'tthink about it, we just did it.
And uh, looking back I canlaugh and go oh, remember that

(40:45):
time we got searched at niagarafalls and wasn't that funny?
No, it really wasn't.
But you know now.
Anyway, I I love touring europebecause it's it's more organized
and people really, really seemto care more.
I don't know what it is for formy.

(41:06):
My experience had some lovelygigs I was so honored to play
with.
Uh, I went to see ZZ at theMontreux Jazz Festival about
four years ago and, having lunchin Geneva and Billy said, hey,
I want you to join us tonight.
I said, uh, well, I kind ofwanted to go see a mountain or

(41:27):
something.
Maybe I can find time to joinyou.
You mean, play Montreux JazzFestival, he, jazz festival.
He said, yeah, uh, it turnedout the first time they had mike
flanagan on keyboards and and Ijust happened to be there, so
we went shopping.
He said you got to wear a hat.
Okay, go buy a damn hat and acoat.
He likes a jacket, that I have,but I didn't bring it with me.
So we went shopping in genevabut uh, I start shaking just

(41:53):
thinking about how nervous I was.
Montreux Jazz Festival, andthey're not a jazz band.
So here we are, back to thatRight exactly.
And so we did a sound check andwe played a Jimmy Smith song
Kiko I forgot the name of thesong and I know and then a blue

(42:20):
song that Dusty sang, a FreddieKing song I love the woman.
And they put an X on the stagewhere I'm supposed to come out.
And and Billy, wouldn't youknow, I like to have my guitar
on backstage, kind of just tothink I can hold it for one day.
Nope, guitar's got to be onstage, come out.
I mean he have my guitar onbackstage, kind of just to think
I can hold it for one night.
To go out, nope, guitar's gotto be on stage, come out.
I mean he, he is the beast atat programming and attention to

(42:42):
detail.
I mean you can just see it inthere, everything they do right.
And uh, so we played and Iended up being on this, the dvd
live at mont Top.
It was just mind-blowing to meand first time they ever used
outside musicians on stage.
And then I opened for them inSierra.

(43:04):
Have you done the Sierra BluesFestival?
No I have not Right down theroad.
I've done it a couple of times.
So I opened.
No, they closed for me.
What am I talking about?
Uh, I didn't open for them.
No, you know, there are a lot ofbands on the bill and so billy
got me up to play jailhouse rock.
And why so important for me, uh, is that dusty sang it and, uh,

(43:30):
such a big deal.
And then right after that theywere doing an album and he
called and said do you rememberthe little song we were goofing
around with at your house in the70s called Drive-By Lover?
I went, yeah, and a few yearsbefore I'd taken the cassettes
and made little vignettes of usjust fooling around.
The guitars weren't even pluggedin, they were electric.

(43:53):
You could hear some girl in thebackground going Billy, get me
a beer.
And then, 30 years later almost, I send him these little
excerpts and he's working withRick Rubin.
I don't know how much RickRubin was really involved in it,
but a few hours later I hearDusty Hill sing and my lyrics

(44:13):
Drive by Lover.
And they put it on their LaFutura album, which is such an
honor for me, yeah, yeah.
But it brings me to anotherlament of the business that it
hit at the time that people areno longer buying physical
product, right, you know, and Imade a little money off of it,

(44:33):
but it wouldn't have been likeif it was on eliminator in 1983.
Yeah, you would have been setthat ceiling fan you can kind of
see up there would be myhelicopter Instead of a ceiling
fan, but it's still.
You know, I've always wanted tobe a writer and get a cut on
some album and it's just soweird how our business has

(44:53):
changed so dramatically, sodrastically and and uh man it is
crazy.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
I mean, I was thinking about this the other
day, about, you know, I've doneI'm sure I don't know how many
over 20 releases, right, that'sonline.
You know, I think most of themare up on all the different
streaming services and now it's,you know it's a decent ish
amount of money that comes in,but it's not, you know, it's

(45:23):
just ancillary, it's not.
You know, it's not salary money.
And then I've got, you know, 20, some books and DVDs and all
that other kind of stuff, not tomention all this other digital
stuff that I did for true fire,so on and so forth, and um, and
those have all treated me wellover the years.
But you know, you, uh, yourealize that to your point.

(45:44):
You know the business changes.
Now it's like, well, how manyguys are doing free content
online now?
I mean, I do a bit of it aswell.
But the point is, is that thatdevalues all of that other shit
Right In a rather significantway.
And I get it.
I know I'm not going to, youknow, whine about it because it
is what it is.
But you know it's one of thosethings where you know you, you

(46:07):
do things not all the time withthe idea of.
Well, I do enough of this stuffand hopefully I can, you know,
at some point slow down a littlebit, because I'll have all this
ancillary income and yourealize things just change on a
dime and all that stuff could bemade not irrelevant but
certainly not as vibrant, shallwe say, of a income stream, and

(46:32):
so you always just kind of gotto keep on your toes.
But to your point earlier aboutwhy we keep doing it, it's just
like you know, someone wasmentioning to me the other day
like, uh, you know, we're goingon this tour and we're actually
we're gonna be down by you again.
We're gonna be down, uh, Ithink we're gonna be this tour.
Actually we're going to be downby you again.
We're going to be down at Ithink we're going to be at the
Saxon on the 17th or 18th ofJuly, something like that.
No, of August, of August, I'msorry, okay, but we've got a big
trip coming up.
We're going out to Californiaand going up the West Coast and

(46:54):
then driving back.
People go man out.
I get to drive with my son anda buddy and we play all of my
music.
We travel and stop wherever wewant to stop.

(47:15):
We go to gigs where the onlyreason people are coming there
is to come see us.
We play our music.
At the end I sell the merch, Iget to hang with all the
different folks, so on and soforth.
We started eight o'clock, youknow we're done and packing up.
You know, two and a half hourslater, and uh, and then the next
day you repeat, you seebeautiful sites.
You stop wherever you want tostop.

(47:35):
Why, why would I stop doingthis?
You know, uh, but that wholething of I could never see
retired, cause I would.
Even if I, even if I was to thepoint where, okay, well, I'm
not going to travel anymore, forwhatever reason, I would still
play around town, I would stilldo the thing because I just love

(47:55):
it.
So, unless it gets to the point, you know, as, as we've been
talking about all these massivechanges, you know, if it gets to
the point where it's like livemusic just doesn't exist anymore
, I, I, I kind of find that hardto believe that there won't be
at least some, you knowconnection to live performance
in some way shape or form, orespecially people who have done

(48:17):
it, as long as we haven't have acertain affinity for being able
to get in front of people andmake them respond to something
you'd like to know we can.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
Uh, I've been thinking about doing the Van
Wilkes tribute band, where it'sme, you know, cause that's
what's killing me, all thesetribute bands and they're,
they're taking over, yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
And.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
Austin, my God, I guess you know it's fun for
people, but I don't know.
So I hit on the idea of let'shave the VW Tribute Band Right.
There you go and they'll go.
Man, they sound just like them,right they sound just like them
.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
Well, isn't that an interesting thing?
Like when we were growing upyou'd get the vinyl and you'd
hear the song of whatever groupit was, and then you couldn't
wait to hear the live versionbecause you knew they were a
trio, so there's no way, or afour piece, whatever the case
may be.
You're like well, there's noway they can duplicate that live
.
I wonder how they're going todo it.

(49:17):
And then the live versionbecame a whole nother artistic
thing and it changed from nightto night.
And I just noticed what's soodd is is that so many of those
bands whose live versions youcouldn't wait to hear now are
like having or whatever remainsof them.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
You know, sometimes I'll say featuring the original
sound man you know, yeah exactly.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
It'll have to play with ancillary tracks and do
everything they possibly can tosound as much like the initial
record so that people can go outand relive their instead of
like well, this song is avehicle for improvisation and
for interpretation.
It's like that is really beingsquished by the fact that people
want to hear things exactly asthey were, which I find I

(50:02):
personally find repugnant.
But people dig it, that's onthem.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
But uh, yeah, I want to hear something different
every time it's played rightthere's something to be said
about fans that you know.
I always thought that we playfor the people that don't play.
You know like it's cornysounding, but an artist paints
for people that don't paint.
Musicians play for people thatdon't paint.
Musicians play for people thatdon't play because those other

(50:27):
musicians are not going to buyour supper.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
Well, that's a fact.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
And so we got to get to the people that hopefully
they're just true music loversand enjoy it.
And I've always thought andI've had a couple of people that
that have had a lot of successsay, those people want to hear
that song like they heard it onthe record, right, you know.
So that's why billy's doing the, the, you know, synth, synth on

(50:55):
legs, and and I get that, Imean embellishing a little bit.
I have no with the.
Who did it for sure, right, joeWalsh.
I remember opening for him andhe had a TAC 3340 on stage which
I thought was kind of cool.
He hit the button Right andthere he goes.

(51:16):
Yeah, I have no problem withthat now, just lip syncing.
Yeah, right, have you startedto use a bunch of ancillary
dancers on stage yet?

Speaker 1 (51:29):
No, but that needs to happen.
That needs to happen.
You know anything to help thecareer.
Well, there you go and nothingbetter than a good bunch of
dance moves.
I'm a big fan of Dua Lipa, see,and I like her dance
maneuvering.
I just heard that name, theother day, day and I'm still
sorting through what it is.

(51:50):
Oh, you gotta, you gotta gocheck out old dua.
She is a, she is quite the uh,uh performer.
I'm gonna use the wordperformer yeah, okay uh, but she
is.
Uh, she's alian, but grew up inEngland.
I like her already, and I'mgoing to say that she is a
rather, shall we say, stunningvisage.

(52:14):
I'm going to throw that outthere.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
Well, let's cut this short, then I'm going to go.
Look, you know, I know we havea mutual friend in Eric Johnson.
Yes, I'd be remiss if I didn'tsay how proud I am to have
jammed with him from the earlymid-70s to I don't know.
He's on a cut of mine calledVanitized yes.

(52:40):
And then one afternoon I wasdoing the Arm armadillo.
That night this has to be 70something and we, we both loved
beck, of course, I mean you done, and uh, we were doing just
started fooling around.
Uh, what beck called greensleeves, which is right, what
child is this?

(53:00):
and eric said, oh, you know,that I said, well, I kind of
ripped off beck's version, so weended up playing it at
armadillo that night.
And then, uh, then it was puton.
We did an official recording,which I don't know if it's even
available anymore, on an austin.
It's called austin christmascollection.
It's all like willie, nelson,jerry, jeff, all these people

(53:21):
and eric and I were doing whatchild is this?
And I listened to it from timeto time and go, wow, what an
honor, yeah, yeah, to havegotten to play with him.
But he's pretty much stuck tohis roots.
You know, getting back to Don'tChange.
I know he's times offrustration, like we all have,
but man, you know he's stilldoing it.

(53:46):
You got to keep on keeping on.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
Now, did you, uh, did you hang with Stevie Ray a bit
when, back in the day, were youfamiliar with him?

Speaker 2 (53:54):
Oh, yeah, yeah, I mean, we never jammed together,
but, uh, we did cross paths, uh,late at night a couple of times
.
Cross paths late at night, acouple of times In fact.
I had, let's see, this was 83or so or four.
I'd done about 15 states withHart in 1980 and they took me

(54:17):
out to Renton, washington, whereHendricks is buried.
At the time it was just alittle tombstone about the size
of a oh, a little bigger than alaptop, and I've put one foot on
one side, one on the other, andtook a picture and I've always
kept it in my wallet Right.
And one night, uh and it wasreally night, um, it was Tommy,

(54:40):
stevie and I at a friend's houseand I pulled that picture out
and he literally grabbed.
He never saw Hendrix.
I was lucky at my age to haveseen him four times and as a
16-year-old you can imagine whatthat did.
What is this?
And Stevie just grabbed thatpicture out of my hand and just

(55:04):
stared at it and got kind ofemotional.
I do recall, you know I saidStevie, may, I have that back
now, but it just it reallyaffected him.
And now I hear there's a giantmonument.
Yeah, they've changed it quitea bit.
Yeah, now I hear there's agiant monument and statue.
Yeah, they've changed it quitea bit.
Yeah, but you know, I've alwaysthought that, you know, we could

(55:30):
see him.
I remember hearing him thefirst time that he sang at let's
see After Hours Bar on Congress, when he was still with Lou
Anne.
I went wow, he's singing.
But you know, when you live inthe same town as somebody of
that caliber and you see him allthe time, it's like if you

(55:50):
lived in Liverpool and saw theBeatles every day.
Yeah, they're great man.
But I mean, you almost have todistance yourself or not know
the person to realize, wow, thatguy's really good instead of
just a buddy, you know and I'mnot saying, you and I were great
friends now, but we certainlyknew each other and uh well,
let's, let's get, let's get backto the four times.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
You saw Hendricks as well, if you don't mind.
So where did you?

Speaker 2 (56:16):
see him at.
Okay, living in Brownwood,texas, I skipped the
schoollahoma where the sunshines something on the plane
and we, my parents, let me goand and the cool thing about it
and I remember it so vividly wasthere was the soft machine, but
the first band was called thechessman.

(56:38):
This is in dallas, first timehendrix came through.
I've got some pictures of it.
So it was 68 and and thepicture with my little Brownie
Instamatic camera it's mostlythe back of people's heads in
front of me and Hendrix wasabout that big on stage.
But the opening act was thechessman who I found out years

(56:59):
later was Jimmy Vaughn and DoyleBramhall.
And I remember I rememberdouble bass drums and I remember
him singing Doyle Bramhall.
And I remember I rememberdouble bass drums and I remember
him singing Doyle Bramhallsenior of course.
Right, I remember him singingGeorgia on my mind and I'll
never forget that.
So when I got to, got to befriends with Doyle and Jimmy and
ask about that, he said oh yeah, that was our big song at the

(57:19):
time.
Just, I think that's the nightthat Jimmy says Hendrix gave him
a wawa or something or right.
And then I never got to see himwith the moving sidewalks
opening, which I wish I wouldhave because billy tells these
great stories in fort worth of.
Uh, jimmy asking billy to comeinto his room and he's laying on

(57:41):
the bed with a portable batterypowered, some kind of turntable
.
But he's laying on the bed withhis afro hanging off, holding
his guitar and he said well, youknow that foxy lady thing.
What do you do?
He said he showed him at the11th fret and you put one string
over the other, said but themain thing was you got to wiggle
it.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
You got to wiggle it, you would have told me you got
to wiggle it, you got to wiggleit.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
You would have told me you got to wiggle it.
I just love that.
So incredible.
I've got this picture thatBilly gave me, which I've seen
on the internet now, of themoving sidewalks and Hendrix
backstage.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
Yeah, I've seen that one yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
And all those little guys look.
Hendrix looks like he's fromanother planet which he was
right, he was but he wasn't thatbig of a guy but in this
picture he looks huge, rightfruit crate or something I don't
know, but just incredible.
Uh, in 68 or 67 to 8, brownwoodTexas had these dances and they

(58:45):
hired some band called theMoving Sidewalks and by that
time we changed from theMidnight Riders to Life with a Y
, l-y-f-e, because of Hendrick,you know, because of the
psychedelic era, right.
And so we opened for him and itall I remember was Billy was
spinning that flying V around.
Even back then Still don't knowhow they did that because I

(59:15):
don't think he had a wirelessback then.
So I don't know, I'd get alltangled up in the cord and fall
down.
But I remember we opened forhim at the Browntowner Hotel and
a girl kind of made me mad thatnight and I hit the window and
put my hand through the window.
Blood spurted everywhere.
I'm fine, I'm fine, told mydaddy, it was the strobe lights

(59:37):
that caused it.
But Billy remembers the gig andso does Tom Moore, the keyboard.
He said, yeah, we were going toBrownwood and throwing out
firecrackers out of the car.
You know, you just remembercrazy things, sure, and uh, I'd
lived there.
I graduated from high schoolthere in 69.
And and, uh, and I'd nevernoticed this one thing there's a

(01:00:00):
little suburb called early andthe state sign says entering
brownwood, leaving early, andI've never noticed that until
gibbons brought that up to me 25years later.
He said isn't that funny?
That sign said I don't knowwhat you're talking about, but
you see things different whenyou're on the road.
As you certainly know yourself,you owe the road blog yes, yes

(01:00:25):
indeed.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
Well, listen, my friend, it's been an absolute
pleasure shooting the breezewith you.
I hope we get to cross pathsagain down when I'm in down in
your neck of the woods.
Actually, I think we're goingto be in austin for a couple
days, just hanging out after weget done playing.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
Well, let's try to get together, and I'll
definitely be the one in theaudience saying play some real
blues you're right, please do,because you know I react so well
to that all right, my friend.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
Well, listen, you take care of yourself.
Say hello to the gang downthere.
For me I sure will, and, uh,we'll hopefully see you very
soon okay, uh, I got a questionfor you.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
Yes, sir, yes, sir, uh, who's the agent that you use
, that can, that keeps you onthe road?
So I've got a guy named PhillipWalker.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
Who, who?
Who books us, and he was withother people too.
He books a couple of otherpeople, but originally I was
signed by an Austin agencycalled true grit.
He was with originally, and aguy by the name of Mike Krug and
then a guy named Andrew Hallbooked me for a while, but then

(01:01:31):
we got passed off to a Phillip,and Phillip lives in Nashville
Nashville now, and um, andthat's called true.
True, the original one wascalled true grip, but now it's
like, uh, I don't know what hecalls it now.
That's all right, I'm nottrying to weasel in on your deal
, that's all right, no problem.
But you'll probably meet MikeKrug when he comes out to see us
in Austin, because he livesdown there.

(01:01:51):
K-r-u-g.
He actually books Warren Haynesnow, as a matter of fact.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
Oh wow, oh wow.
Well, I'd love to find somesmall agency booking.
You know it's.
I, I admire the way you get outthere and do it and I I'd like
to do it again if it wasorganized.
You know, right, and like yousay, you go to your gigs and
they're coming to see you.
Uh, I have to build that upagain, but uh.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
I mean what I found is is that you know, I guess
what was actually, we're stillrecording, but I think this is
all good stuff for the pocket.
Um, this is uh.
You know, when I first wasgetting tours booked, you know I
was of the mindset of, well, Igotta have guarantees and some
of these, but I just can't goout for nothing.
Yeah, that's the tough part.
And and the agents like, listen, you've got enough of a

(01:02:47):
following from your online thing, and so on and so forth.
Always go with the door deal,because if you get some shitty
little guarantee versus a betterbackend deal, with a shitty
backend deal, you're better offwith like getting most, you know
, getting a ability where youcould actually make the dough,
and that has proved to becorrect.
So I mean, we will have likethe marquee gig where it's a

(01:03:09):
festival where you're makingsome really good bank or
whatever the case may be.
But a lot of the getting thereand getting back from there are
door deals.
But man, it is.
It has worked out because weknow what our nut is, and every
night it's like's like there'snights where you'll play at some
club.
It's like, oh, there's 40people here, but I might sell
$1,000 in merch you know what Imean.
So it's just one of thosethings where it's just the three

(01:03:33):
of us in one vehicle.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
We get two hotel rooms and so as a result of that
, we come back for every one ofthese tours we're like we did it
again.
That for every one of thesetours like we did it again.
That is so good to hear,because usually I hear just the
opposite and I'm kind of afraidto even try.
But I would like to havesomebody that could, that I've
trusted, even in europe.
Again, I don't have anybodythere, but like I used to, like

(01:03:55):
klaus or klaus is a greatgermany.

Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
klaus basically books us and that's it.
He barely does it anymore.
Yeah, but yeah, it's tough.
You got to find someone thatbelieves in it and we'll give
you a chance and and uh, butyeah, it's just a matter of I
just got to the point where Ijust literally said yes to
everything.
And what was nice is is that hehe is a touring musician
himself, so he understands therouting, so the routing always

(01:04:20):
works good, and if it's even alittle dicey, he'll be like hey,
this one's kind of weird, doyou want to do it?
And then you know.
So we're always in contact andand it's been great Mike, my
crew guy this is.
this is the Phillip Walker atthis point.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Yeah, Well, I don't, I'm not going to try to call
anybody, I just.
I'm just curious how people doit.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
Yeah, yeah, that's it .
That's it in a nutshell.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
Well, I look forward to seeing you in August.
I'll put it on my calendar.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
Likewise.
Let's go out and get some food.
We'll get Grissom and maybe EJand Gary, chancellor Rasko.

Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
Oh yeah, let's take Eric.

Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
And Roscoe.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
And for barbecue.
Eric needs some barbecue.
Yes, he does All right, myfriend, you have a good one.
I really appreciate it.
I'm honored to chat with you,my pleasure man, same here.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
We'll see you soon.
Okay, let me know if this airs.
Oh, it will definitely air.
Within, probably in about amonth, it'll go up.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
They go up on.

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
Thursdays Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
Okay, bye, my friend.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
You got it.
Really appreciate it.
Likewise, take it easy.
Thank you so much, folks, fortuning in.
Special thank you to WildwoodGuitars of Louisville, colorado,
and the mighty FishmanTransducers for making this
podcast possible.
If you enjoyed yourself, ladiesand gentlemen, please subscribe

(01:05:40):
and review so that people canget the word out that this is
worth experiencing.
Can you dig it?
Thanks again.
We'll see you soon or you'llhear me soon.