Your 1st Marathon - Embracing The Training - Chicago Endurance Sports

Episode Transcript
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Coach Michael (00:06):
Welcome to the Chicago Endurance Sports
podcast.
I am coach Michael and as thisepisode has been recorded.
We're preparing to begin thetraining cycle for the 2022 fall
marathon season.
Running a marathon is hard, buttraining for a marathon is even
harder.
We thought it would beinteresting to have a discussion
aimed at those folks trainingfor their first marathon.

(00:28):
To hopefully try to dispel somepreconceived notions, explore
some strategies for navigatingthe long demanding training
season, and set up somerealistic expectations.
Let's start off by introducingthe panel for today's podcast.
How about we have everyoneintroduce themselves, provide a
brief running resume, and maybetalk a bit about their first
marathon.
Sonja, you want to start us out?

Coach Sonja (00:50):
Hi, I'm Coach Sonja I coach primarily out of Lincoln
Square and sometimes out ofSouth Loop.
I started with CES in 2007training for the Chicago
marathon as my first marathon.
So I have, experienced trainingwith CES as a participant for my
first marathon.
I went on to become a pacer forCES and trained for a couple

(01:13):
more Chicago marathons with CESas a pacer, and then joined the
coaching staff in 2013.
I've trained a lot of beginningrunners, and then moved on to
the marathon program as well.
I really love working withanyone who's doing their first
marathon specifically, anyonewho's really looking at that
time cutoff and trying to makethat, last back of the pack time

(01:36):
cutoff.
I think it's really fun to havethat challenge for yourself and
know that anyone who really putstheir mind to it can do a
marathon.
So I was someone who waswatching the marathon in 2002,
2003, thinking this is somethingI can never do.
And joining CES has really gotme to do a lot of marathons and

(01:57):
I really love it and love seeingother people get to cross that
finish line too.
So I'm looking forward totalking about first marathon
experience.

That's great.
Alexia.
Do you want to introduceyourself?

Coach Alexia (02:09):
Hi, my name is Alexia Koelling I coach out of
South Loop.
I have had sort of two phases tomy running career.
I started as an adult incollege, ran for awhile, stopped
after having my first child.
And then CES brought me back torunning.
So started pacing and thencoaching with CES.

(02:30):
I think my favorite things arereally noticing what is like at
the very beginning of trainingand then talking to people at
that taper run at the end andhaving the, remember what a six
miles felt like just 12, 15weeks ago.
I really love watching thatchange and seeing the pride and

(02:51):
confidence that people havetowards the end of training if
training went well.
So, I'm excited to talk todayabout what's going to get you to
that fantastic taper andhopefully great first race,

Pat you're up next.

Pat (03:05):
Hi everyone.
I'm Patrick Grunfeld also knownas Pat.
I am a pacer at our LincolnSquare location and, I started
as a participant with CES well,almost a year ago this month.
Actually, and my first marathonwas last year, Chicago marathon.
I did have a previous life inhigh school as a middle distance

(03:27):
runner.
I've run more 5 Ks than I cancount, but I was much faster
back then, but I'm now muchmore, mature and really I would
say a better runner these days,even though a little slower, but
excited to be here, to talkabout running your first
marathon.

Pat, I think it's great to have you here to bring
your perspective and yourexperience training with CES for
your first marathon.
I guess I should introducemyself.
As I said before, I'm coachMichael and I am the lead coach
at the South Loop location.
I consider myself a late in liferunner.
I really was not athletic all mylife.
I sort of avoided anythingphysical.

(04:05):
I successfully got out of PE inschool quite often.
It just wasn't my thing.
So happenstance led me to run ahalf marathon, my very first
race ever actually on my 40thbirthday.
And I eeked by, I was not reallytrained.

(04:25):
I ended up in a medical tent, alittle dehydrated at the end.
But I did finish and when I gothome, I just had this feeling of
accomplishment and excitement,and I thought to myself, I
wonder what would happen if Iactually trained for this event.
And so the next year, that'swhat I did.
And in the process, I alsosigned up for the marathon.

(04:45):
So I did my first marathon.
I trained for, by myself in2004.
I really didn't know too muchabout training plans, I sort of
made it up as I went along.
It was a slow run, but I didfinish it.
And, obviously I got hooked.
So about after a year or so, Ihooked up with CES as a

(05:07):
participant.
Because I used to take thewinters off because it was cold
and who would want to run in thewinter?
But I joined winter warriors andI've met some folks there and
kind of became connected withthe other runners and eventually
it became a pacer for CES forseveral years.
And eventually I became a coach.

(05:28):
I've been coaching with CES forabout 11 years and I have served
time, but every Chicagolocation.
Lincoln Square, Old Town.
And like I said, now I'm lead ofSouth Loop.
So that's a little bit about me.
So from a coaching perspective,we have assembled, several
coaches with a variety ofbackgrounds and we have brought

(05:50):
in a CES participant to add tothe conversation.
So I'm expecting, we'll have areally good conversation about
training for your firstmarathon.
So people sign up for a marathonfor a variety of different
reasons.
And it's obviously personal toeach person.
A lot of people would never setup for a marathon.

(06:11):
They think the idea of moving onyour feet for 26 miles is
absurd, which I guess anargument can be made for that.
But a lot of people approach themarathon for s myriad of
reasons.
Some look to challengethemselves, physically some,
having a bucket list, a lot ofpeople run for charity or a

(06:32):
cause.
Often though you sign up for amarathon way in advanced, like
for Chicago, you probably had toregister and commit back in
January, and now it's six monthslater.
And you're like, what did I getmyself into?
So why you signed for themarathon?
We usually refer to as your Whythe purpose, what drove you to

(06:55):
take on this major challenge?
And now that we're actuallybeginning training it's good to
revisit your Why and think aboutwhy you've put yourself in this
situation and why you've decidedto challenge yourself with a
26.2 mile run.
To start this part of thediscussion maybe we could go

(07:17):
around and have the coachesdiscuss why they decided to run
their first marathon

So, there's the glib answer and then there's the
more complex answer.
I was working at a company thatwould reimburse any race you
ran.
So it was free.
Why not?
Which is absolutely a motivationwhen you are in your early
twenties.
But the other piece was I hadthe previous year started
running and, was running with afriend.

(07:43):
We did our first 5k.
It was exhilarating.
It was the Ridge run inBeverley.
And, you know, we crossed thatfinish line and I thought I had
conquered the world.
They handed me my Pepsi, CrystalClear, totally dating myself.
And I was like, I'll give youfree stuff and it's so cool.
The next year we ran, the Ridgerun 10 K.
Then we did the half marathon inHyde Park and said, okay, well,

(08:07):
we're just, we're just goinglonger.
Let's just do the marathon.
So, I had a friend who was in itto win it, to try it with me and
I had, employer who had paid forit for free.
And I thought, why not?

What about you Sonia?

Mine was, I was 25 and I decided to start running
because, I had been reallyactive, in high school.
I wasn't an athlete per se, butI had been a figure skater sort
of recreationally.
And in college, I got reallyinto rollerblading and hiking,
but I didn't really have alifestyle that was one that I

(08:44):
felt was what I wanted tosustain for the rest of my life.
So I made a pact with myself tobe more fit at 30 than I was at
25, and I started going to thegym, I started running, and then
I signed up my new year'sresolution for, um, the I turned
25 was actually the one thatstuck and I signed up for the
Shamrock Shuffle, and I said,I'm going to train for it.

(09:05):
And I actually trained for the 8K and that was my big deal in my
new year's resolution thatstuck.
And that turned me into arunner.
I loved it so much I went andsigned up for a half marathon
later that year.
And then the next year, afterdoing a half marathon, I'm like,
you know what, I'm going to trya marathon.
And that was 2007.
A friend of mine had run themarathon years before and during

(09:27):
her taper, her period, she hadasked friends who were
non-running friends to, to justrun one mile with her so that
she would take the taper easily,and I ran a mile with her and I
was exhausted and she looked atme and she goes, you know what?
She goes, you're just runningtoo fast.
She goes, if you just slow down,you could run longer.

(09:48):
And it was the first time anyonehad ever said to me that you
could run at different paces.
And it had never occurred to methat you could slow down, it's
still be running.
So that stuck with me and when Istarted running, I slowed down a
little bit and I could runlonger and I decided to run the
marathon, because I had seen allthese other people do it and I
wanted to try it too.

(10:10):
So 2007

And Pat, what about you?

Pat (10:15):
So for me, my running journey, like I said before,
started in high school and rightat the end of my senior year was
when I found out that I hadosteoporosis, as a side effect
of being a long-term, cancersurvivor for, from when I was a
child.
And my doctors at the time said,which was the science at the

(10:35):
time, you need to stop running.
I mean, you can run like everynow and then, but we think that
it could really contribute toyour bone density loss like you
could break your back or youcould break your hip.
And, you know, it was a blow tome cause I was really into the
middle distance, running 5 Ksand everything like that.
But, I was like, you know, formy health so that I can make

(10:58):
sure I'm going into myadulthood, I'm going to stop
running.
But I had also previously sortof made this pact with my
training team, who we ran within high school to run a marathon
one day we'd only ever gotten upto half marathon distance.
And so that kind of sat in theback of my mind, but I, you

(11:19):
know, I decided to give it up.
And then a year later my firstyear of college, the guy who was
the, the cross-country captainbefore I was, passed away from
brain cancer.
And it was really hard formyself and for the rest of the
team.
And that kind of stuck with mein the back of my head for a

(11:39):
long time.
And in the middle of thepandemic I was my 29th birthday
March of 2020.
And, I decided as I was sittingon the couch, eating chips, I
was going to go run a marathon,and I was going to do it, in
memory of my friend, Adam.
And, I Googled, how do you run amarathon?

(12:02):
And I downloaded a PDF of how toget off the couch to make it to
a marathon.
I only got through the firstpage of the PDF to get to a 5k
before I realized this is a lotof miles and, I'm not going to
be able to do some of my own.
And at that time I had signed upto run the Chicago marathon
through a charity and they letme know, Hey, you can sign up

(12:24):
for one of these groups.
And one of those groups happenedto be CES and I was like, that's
cool.
They give you an option to do itin person or virtual.
I'll do that one cause I don'tknow how I feel about this whole
situation in 2020 and, longstory short I loved it, well, I
love the, most of it you'll havebad runs, spoiler alert, but,

(12:44):
but no, it was, it was a greatexperience and I stuck with CES
through, this past winter,became a pacer and, here I am
going into my second marathonseason.

So this was just a sampling, but as you could
tell, everyone has their ownreason for tackling a marathon.
And, everyone has their own Why.
But Why is something thatintrinsically important to you,
a good way to keep you oncourse.
Training is a long season andit's not always a bed of roses.

(13:16):
There's going to be challenges.
And if you have a why that meanssomething to you.
when you're struggling to getout the door or push through an
entire workout.
To revisit that Why and rememberwhy you started the journey in
the first place.
I remember reading that onairplane is off course about 90%

(13:38):
of the time.
And the pilot is basicallyspending his time fighting the
air currents to keep the planeon course.
So think of your, Why as yourrudder to steer you and keep you
on course during the trainingseason.

Yeah, I think it's really important to have it, if
you do in the beginning and topause and think about it and
reflect that.
But it's also okay.
If on day one and day two, youdon't know it.
I think what we're encouragingor would encourage is that you
start to think about it.
What are you liking?
What is motivating you?
and you know, your, why mightbecome those people that you're

(14:16):
running with every week and thatyou like them and like that they
were talking about the show,they were watching the book they
were reading and that's okay,too.
So if you have something thatis, you know, deep in your soul
that you can tap into, that'sgreat.
And if you don't, I think whatwe're encouraging is that you
start to cultivate it over thecourse of the time that you're
going through training.

Pat (14:36):
I think just from my perspective going into my first
marathon is the farthest I'dever run, cause you know, within
training you only get up to 20miles.
So, you think to yourself, wow,that's an extra 6.2 miles we're
going to see how this goes, butdefinitely, you know, you've got
all of your training and yourpreparation and that gets you
through the first half, thefirst 15 or 16 miles.

(14:59):
And then around that time iswhen the, why becomes really
important because you may behaving a good race.
You may be having a bad racelike I was, but either way you
really.
I have to dig deep at that pointto be able to motivate yourself
to get to the finish line, tohit that time that you want to

(15:21):
hit, et cetera.
So that's, that's what I wouldadd.

Some really great points there.
I think it's important to notethat your Why is related a lot
to goals.
And about a year ago, we did apodcast episode completely about
goals.
What they are, how to set them,how to succeed in following
them.
So that's something I wouldreally encourage everyone to

(15:46):
listen to.
I spoke to one of our coaches atthe time, who's also a
psychologist, so she also ableto speak to it from a sports
psychology standpoint as well.
And if you don't have a solidWhy or purpose you're running
maybe working on some goals.
Some goals for your training andfor your race can help you in

(16:07):
the same way by keeping you ontrack and helping you out during
the rough times during the longtraining session.
Speaking of the long trainingsession, which I've mentioned
several times, and I don't meanto scare anyone.
I'm just kind of pointed out toreality that our training
schedule is going to take upmost of your summer.
But I'd like to talk about howwe fit training into our daily

(16:30):
lives.
None of us are professionalathletes, we're not getting paid
to train.
So we need to figure out how totake this time consuming hobby
and make it fit into our livesso we can get in the work we
need to be prepared, but stillco-exist with our day to day.
So someone want to get usstarted with that.

One of my strategies is the first thing I
do is look at my calendar.
And I look at the training planagainst my calendar, because
there's just so many things thatcan come up during the course of
training.
And I want to know if I have anybig commitments that might
conflict with it.
Family commitments, friendcommitments, weddings, baby

(17:11):
showers, family vacations.
And that's something that Ithink, especially during the
first training period, peoplecan have a hard time saying no
to things.
And there are some things thatyou may have to say no to, or
say to people, you know, I maybe a little late to this, or
Hey, maybe I can't help you setup for this because I'm going to

(17:32):
be running 12 miles that day.
So I think knowing what yourcalendar looks like, and what
commitments you already have onthe calendar really helps you
train your, or set up yourtraining program rather than
being surprised when you'regetting toward the end of your
training program and highermileage.
And you're going, oh my gosh,how am I going fit this in this

(17:53):
weekend and trying to scrambleat the end.
You don't have to figure everysingle day out.
I think that's overwhelming, butjust having an idea of the big
things, and then that's whatcoaches are here for is to help
you strategize around those bigideas and big things.

I think that's really great you know, some of
the other things that I thinkare helpful is, not having your
marathon training, being asecret.
I do have certain runningfriends that they don't want to
tell anyone in case somethingdoesn't go, right and so they
keep it all to themselves.
But if you tell the people youcare about and they care about
you, this is a thing I'm doing,and this is important to me.

(18:31):
People are usually more thanhappy to say, okay, well, great
we'll have dinner at five, soyou can be home and in bed in
time.
You know, people are willing tohave that senior special with
you, so you can have the restthat you need and to support you
in that way.
So even if they're not runners,A lot of good friends and family
are going to help you do that.
So just telling them that thisis happening, and this is

(18:52):
important to you, is definitelysomething that we can start to
get that support from yournon-running network.
The other thing is, really themore you start to socialize with
other runners, the more thatthat becomes part of your
socialization.
This is a little tangential tomarathon training, but I will
tell you that it was running andrunners that got me through the

(19:12):
pandemic, you know, knowing thatI could meet people and run and
chat and check in with themoutdoors in a safe space, and
then go on with our days andnights in isolation.
You know, that socialization wasreally valuable to me.
And that also starts to happenover the course of the training,
right?
These people and theinteractions that you have with
fellow runners really starts tofulfill some of those human

(19:34):
connection needs that some of ushave.
And then the last thing thatI'm, I would say is, Sonja, I
think did a really smart thingand certain think about how to
outline it, but things happen,that work trip that you weren't
expecting comes up.
And thinking about how youcontinue to build into your
training, talking with a coachcan definitely help.

(19:55):
You know, maybe you need tobreak runs into shorter morning
and evening run so that you canstill get some things going in,
or maybe you just have to do,some of the mileage, but not all
of the mileage that, we ascoaches can help you think
through a strategy for that.
This is not an all or nothinggame.
It is best if we can stick tothe plan, but things happen and

(20:17):
knowing how to adjust or workingwith people to adjust, keeps you
going and gets you ready forthat next big run.

Pat (20:23):
Yeah, for me, I'm kind of a recluse.
So the socialization and tellingpeople, no was not difficult.
I'm a professional at that.
I can get out of many things.
Nearly got out of attending myown wedding.
I was like, he could just put alittle cardboard guy there and I
can record it and you can.
But, it was really, for me, I'ma very regimented person because

(20:46):
I have mental health problems soI have to be, based on how my
brain works.
And so really just getting myrun-in wherever I was and
sticking to the set days.
Maybe not the same time oranything like that, because I
also work in logistics.
So during the pandemic, I wasworking 60 or 70 hours a week.

(21:08):
So if you saw me at 9:00 PMrunning down the road, that was
definitely me.
But it, it was just trying toget those runs in on the
scheduled days.
And, you know, no matter where Iwas, if I was on vacation, the
second long run that we did,that was just seven miles.
I was in Evergreen, Colorado at7,000 feet.

(21:30):
I had no experience running atelevation, pouring down rain and
30 degrees it was amazing, and Idefinitely didn't almost give up
running right then.
But it really did help to juststick to that schedule for me
mentally and I think it helpedwith me feeling prepared, for
the mileage to come as well.

So I'm a single guy with no family obligations
or commitments.
But Alexia I know you're a mom,and also, I know you've had to
travel for work.
And I'm wondering if you haveany specific hints in regards to
those areas.

So I think there's a couple of things we're going
to sound like repeating ofthings that I've said, but my
family knows when I am trainingfor something that this is a
thing I'm doing, they're notrunners.
They don't fully understand it,but they know that that it's
important to me.
I am not a morning person bynature, although most of my
friends and family think that'sfunny.

(22:28):
But you know, I get up at four30 on Tuesdays and Thursdays to
meet some other crazy, willingto get up that early people to
do my runs so that I can be homein time to get my kids up and
take them to the bus stop.
You know, that's what ended upworking for our family to get
things in.
So there are things where thereare going to be, especially if
you are dealing with otherpeople like family members,

(22:49):
you're going to have to makesome compromises.

Would I prefer to run at 6 (22:51):
30, yes.
Do I prefer to get the run in?
Yes.
So, that's a piece that I had tothink about.Travel is a
challenging one and again, Ithink talking to coaches,
talking to others and startingto make strategies, it was a
really hard thing for me torealize the schedule says six.

(23:13):
There's no time for me to getsix and you know what?
I can do three.
So I'm going to get those threein and it keeps me on track.
Some of those compromises arereally important.
So I think that's one thing.
And the other thing too, is I amnot a treadmill runner.
I hate it.
I hate it, I hate it, hate it.
I can't tell you how many timesI hate it, but I have made so
many games, especially if I'veonly got time for a three mile

(23:35):
run where you start thattreadmill going on a piece that
feels painfully slow and thenevery.
10th of a mile, you click it upa 10th of a mile and speed in
the end, you're flying acrossthe treadmill and you're just
faster than you've ever beenbefore.
ways to play games.
Right?
So there's lots of things youcan do, even if it's not your
ideal situation, but that keepsyou on track so that when you

(23:59):
come back together with peopleand you are there for the long
run that you're not behind andyou're able to just catch up
with everyone else.

Once again, let's say talk to your coaches.
We've got so many differentcoaches with such various
backgrounds and experiences I'msure there'll be someone who
could share a similar situationand make some suggestions that
could really help you out.
So to move on, I'd like to talka little bit about the training
plan which is a schedule of allyour workouts mapped out for the

(24:26):
season in calendar form.
At the start of the season,you'll be assigned a training
schedule from a coach based onyour current level of fitness.
We use an online tool calledTraining Peaks.
So you could easily follow yourtraining plan day to day.
We discuss in detail how plansare designed and how they're
assigned in a podcast episodecalled New Member Orientation

(24:48):
which is worth checking out.
So when you look at yourschedule, you'll notice pretty
much every day is accounted for.
Some will be rest days, butyou'll see different types of
workouts, different types ofruns listed.
And at first glance, it mightseem overwhelming.
Pat, I'm sort of curious whatyour reaction was when you first
received your training plan.

Pat (25:07):
I was pretty surprised at how few miles there were because
even when I was running middledistance, and in high school, we
would do 40 to 50 miles a week,probably because we were young
and insane and we liked to runfast spry.
But it was interesting to seethe way that it was planned out

(25:29):
the way that there was certainmileage on certain days, how we
were really ramping into thatlong run on the weekends and,
the cadence to it all reallybecause you, look at it on paper
and you're like, oh yeah, 45minutes.
That's not so hard.
It's harder after you've doneseven or eight miles two days

(25:51):
before and then you start tounderstand, okay.
So in a way, some of the runs,you're recovering still while
you're running.
And so you start to reallyunderstand why, you know, the
pace is listed as slow,comfortable pace, and you start
to figure out what that meansand you figure out what happens

(26:13):
if you don't do that on thatrun.
And then you try to go do aspeed workout and then you try
to go do a long run.
You start to figure out, okay.
Now I understand.
And, the other thing I would sayis, cross training is something
that I knew of from when I wasin high school, we did cross
training, as part of ourtraining, but it was, let's go

(26:36):
into the pool and swim aroundfor a bit and that was
cross-training.
Whereas this is really focusingon building your base, right.
You're which is a weird term, ifyou don't know what it means,
but essentially just your coreso that you can really get
through a lot of those longermileage runs and also prevent

(27:00):
injury.
And I think that was somethingthat I, that it probably took me
about two or three months tolearn, but once I figured it
out, I was like, okay, now Iknow the different things I
should do cross training wiseand what I maybe shouldn't do on
those days, and was able to kindof move forward from there.

I was thinking about my own experiences as a
participant when I first lookedat my training plan as well, and
especially as I moved into mysecond or third marathon, and
now as a coach, and I think Iget a lot of questions about
like, well, why do you have arunning on this day?
Why are we running the daybefore a long run?
why are we resting on this day?
And I think that the best thingthat runners can do is when you

(27:40):
have those questions, bring themto training.
I'm asked to poach about thembecause there is a logic behind
these training plans and we canhelp you understand why you're
doing what you're doing.
We didn't just decide that youneeded this many runs a week and
throw them in and like mix themup across training and like,
okay, here you go.
There's a reason that theseplans are designed the way they

(28:01):
are.
There's a reason that you'rerunning the day before a long
run.
There's a reason you're restingthe day after a long run and I
think if you start to have thesequestions, he tried to do them
all at the beginning.
It's a lot, and it can beoverwhelming, but as the season
progresses and you start to go,you know, I, I really just don't
want to run the day before I'mdoing my long run because it's

(28:21):
tiring.
Why do I have to do this?
You know, there's a reason thatit's great to run on tired legs
for your long run.
So we'll happily tell you whythis is great to help you train
for the marathon.
So bring that to training onthat long run day.
And, that gives us something totalk about while we're doing 10
miles.
So that's fantastic so justreally, again, just trust the
training plan and ask thecoaches when you have questions

(28:45):
about it.

Wow, you guys did an excellent job of covering a
lot of ground right there andpicking up from where Sonja said
trust your training, trust theprocess.
I kind of want to pick up onbecause we are a group training
program, people come to us fromdifferent perspective, some.
I have been running regularly,some are newer runners, some are

(29:06):
just kind of casual runners.
I've gotten to a habit withparticipants when they approach
you with concerns and alwaysapproach your coach if you do
have concerns.
But what I like to tell them isgive it three weeks.
Try your best to follow yourassigned schedule faithfully for
three weeks.
And after that period of time,if It's either too challenging

(29:28):
or not challenging enough, comespeak to myself or another
coach.
And we could see about eithermaking changes to your schedule
or some tweaks.
So you are getting out of theprogram, what you need to get
out of the program.
But think of it long-term notjust day by day and week by
week.

Pat (29:46):
Think for me, one thing that clicked for me.
Yeah.
It was probably just because Iwas, I had no sort of
preconceptions coming in.
Cause it'd been so long since Iwas a serious runner, you should
figure out what your pace is andyou know, if you, if you used to
run and you're picking it backup after a long time, not

(30:06):
running, don't feel bad.
If your pace now is slower thanthe pace that you used to do.
Like I would routinely when Iwas young, go out and run 70
sevens.
Right.
Just easily, no sweat.
Now that I'm older, I run 11minute miles and I'm okay with
that.
Cause it's, it's a lot of milesand it's also a lot of runs,

(30:30):
cause you know, it may only befour runs a week and you look at
it on paper and you're like, oh,that's not too many, but you
just add that up week after weekand they get longer.
It certainly a challenge and sothat's, one thing that I would
say Not only trust the process,if you're feeling apprehensive,
but also trust the process, ifyou're getting back into the

(30:52):
swing of things, if you'rescaling up your distance, if
you're going from a halfmarathon to a full marathon,
it's, it's a whole differentkettle of fish.
Really just believing in whatthe coaches are instructing and
the way that the plan is.

Not all miles are created equal.
Pat had a really good exampleabout when he ran it altitude
and things were a lot harder forhim.
There's a difference betweenrunning and 9 30 pace on a flat
course on a 45 degree day withthe wind behind you or in
running a nine 30 pace uphill in95 degree heat and heavy

(31:26):
humidity.
It's the same pace, but theeffort level and the stress in
your body is completelydifferent.
Our body doesn't have aspeedometer, so it really has no
numeric reference to how fastwe're going.
It doesn't have an odometer itdoesn't really know how far
we're going.
What your body knows is effort.
And the stress on your body isgoing to vary day to day,

(31:49):
depending on conditions, alsobased on things like if you had
a tough day at work, If the kidskept you up all night.
If you're a little under theweather.
So take that into consideration,go ahead and use the metrics,
but don't let them define you asan athlete, or as the only way
to define your fitness.

Pat (32:10):
Yeah.
And just, to quickly touch onthat, I had a, vacation planned
and kind of like the middle ofthe summer.
So it was like when our 11 mile,or it was, I was in new Orleans
in August.
It was about 95 degrees and 85%humidity.
I like Alexia also hatetreadmills.
I frequently get injured onthem, but, you have to be smart

(32:30):
about your training too, becauseif you're not climatized to
where you are on vacation, it'sprobably better for you to do
longer mileage on a treadmill,no matter how boring it is,
because you know, it's betterfor you to be healthy coming out
of that workout.
Cause that's what it is.
It's a workout, even though it'slong run, it's kind of like your

(32:51):
goal for the week.
It's still a workout and itdidn't, you still have more
training to go.
So you want to make sure thatyou're being smart about the way
that you're training.

I was going to say, I think Pat's making, he's
made two points that I think areworth reinforcing, which is
about how you think about theseplans.
These are not races everyweekend.
This is not, burn yourself outin week three and then you just
can't go past it.

(33:23):
Working with yourself and thecoaches to find that pace that's
right for you so you can do thatnext workout.
Figuring out early in theseason, what that pace for you
is, and separating it from anypreconceived notions you have
and any ego that you have sothat you can find that, pace

(33:44):
that's going to allow you to gothe distance with the plan.
So part of that trusting theplan is not only doing all the
pieces that are in it, but doingit to the effort level that's
recommended.
So, if they say this is an easyrun, easy runs are the hardest
thing for people because it'slike, oh, it felt too easy.

(34:05):
Right?
It should It said the word easyon it.
I love what pat said that you'rerecovering while you're running.
Right so there are intentionalpieces to it.
So the plan is not just doingthe type of workout every day,
but also thinking about whywe're asking you to do that and
then choosing the right pace andthe right effort level that lets

(34:27):
you live into that day that youare doing it.

I think going off of that, I remember reading a
book a while ago about enduranceexercises.
And the author had said that shealways stops her workout right
before she thinks that she wouldbe tired.
So like she, she makes sure thatshe wants to do it again the
next day.
And you should always go throughyour workouts wanting to do it

(34:52):
again the next day.
Now there might be days whereyou don't want to, because your
brain is just fried or your legsare tired, or, you know, we all
have bad runs, Pat pointed thatout earlier, but for the most
part, these workouts are reallydesigned that you should always
be able to give a little bitmore.
You should always be able to doa little bit more.
And so if you leave theseworkouts, they can, like, I
don't know if I worked out quitehard enough for the most part

(35:15):
that's okay this is how thatfence designed we're doing this
literally for the long run,marathons are long, and we're
making sure that we can getthrough the whole marathon.
Along with that, I think there'sa lot of urge that if you miss a
run, you want to catch up.
And so I've heard of athletessay, well, I missed a run on
Wednesday.
So I ran twice the distance onthe next run and you don't ever

(35:40):
need to make up a run.
Just let it go follow Frozen.
Just let it go.
if you've missed a run, you canjust go onto the next thing on
your training plan.
Don't try to make anything up,don't try to get ahead of the
game.
It's not going to do you anygood to say, well, I feel great
today.
I just added two miles stick tothe plan.

(36:00):
Trust the plan.
Don't make things up.
Don't add more on.

All great stuff, touching on a few points.
Addressing what Alexia saidabout doing the workouts as
they're intended.
I talked about Training Peaksearlier is the tool which will
hold your training schedule.
Within Training Peaks for everyworkout, there'll be a clear,
concise description of how to dothe workout, at what level to

(36:26):
perform it at, how long itshould be, your warm up your
cool-down.
So everything's going to bespelled out for you nice and
clear.
And Sonia had some good pointsabout not overdoing things and
kind of keeping in your lane.
The way the program is designedis a progression.
So we're gonna start kind ofslow and gradually build up.
So you're not going to be askedto do more than you're prepared

(36:49):
to do.
You'll also notice that we'll bebuilding mileage over a period
of about three weeks or so.
And then what we do is havewhat's called a cutback week.
Where we reduce our mileage andour effort for the week to allow
our bodies to recover for ournext build and that'll sequence
through the entire season.

Pat (37:09):
I think the other thing is it's important, you know, if
it's your first marathon to knowthat it's okay to ask for help.
For me that was going to one ofour coaches, Coach Kerl and
saying.
I am not getting all the waythrough the long runs on Sunday.
It had happened one time.

(37:29):
Then I made it through a couplethat had happened again, and I
talked to them about it and Isaid, you know, I think I'm
doing the correct pace.
I'm following the scheduleduring the week.
I'm not sure what's going on.
And he said, it's been a reallyhot summer, how do you feel
after your Saturday runs?
And I was saying, you know, felta little tired.
I felt like I was able to turnaround by Sunday.

(37:52):
And he gave me the advice ofadjusting some of those Saturday
runs to about 80% of the time.
I was out there instead of thefull 100% and said see how that
helps you with those Sundayruns.
And that was kind of what Ineeded to be able to recalibrate
and to have a successful season.

(38:14):
And so it's okay to say, Iyou're going to be tired
certainly throughout the processmany times, but it's okay to say
I feel like I'm too tired or Ifeel like there's something
going on.
That's preventing me from doingthese long runs correctly.

That's a great message.
And don't wait till the lastminute to ask for help.
If, you know, for example, thatyou're going to go on vacation
for a week with the family inJuly or you have some other
obligation and you're not goingto get your workouts in.
The sooner you could talk to acoach the sooner they can map
things out to the big picture tomake sure that you have the

(38:50):
preparation you need.
So I think we've made it prettyclear that marathon preparation
is more than a single workout,it's the sum of its parts, it's
following the program, it'sbeing consistent.
But still, when people thinkabout preparing for the
marathon, I think they focusheavily on the longer runs.
And I'm pretty sure most peoplewhen they receive their training

(39:12):
schedule for the season, thefirst thing they're going to do
is open it up and look at theweekends to see the progression
of long runs over the weeks andmaybe circle a 20 miler as this
big mystical monolith.
And sure doing long distancetraining as part of the
preparation for marathon day isimportant.

(39:34):
But I also tend to think there'san overemphasis or over
importance put on the long run.
And I'd like to talk a littlebit about that.

I have a story about that one that was not with
CES, so it's not CES people, butI was pacing.
This is now nearly 20 years ago.
I was pacing and I had peoplewith exactly that mentality.
They were big, strong strappingyoung men who just felt like

(40:04):
they could come out for theweekend and be great.
And it was really interesting towatch over the course of the
season.
People just dropping off.
We had kind of a core team thatwas understanding the bigger
picture and doing those midweeksand, you know, with humility to
those long runs.
And then we had the people whoare like, I did last 12 milers.

(40:26):
I'm going to be great for the 14miler.
And, there will come a point intime for most people where you
might be fine for 10, you mightbe fine for 12.
You might be fine for 14, butthere will be that point where
you just need everything elsethat can support you.
so I think, you know, if youtalk to, you know, it doesn't
even have to be the coaches,just talk to anybody who's been
kind of around the block andaround runners, they will tell

(40:47):
you stories of people who justat some point in the training
had to peel off because they gotinjured or they just didn't have
the mental stamina or, or, or,or, or, and really it is
thinking about the culminationof strength, you know, easy run,
tempo runs all of those thingstogether with your long runs

(41:08):
that are going to get people tothat finish line.
And I think one of the piecesthat I appreciate Michael says
to our folks all the time, so Ithink everyone is going to hear
it.
And I'll just say it again ifyou have a bad 20 miler it's
okay.
It's okay.
I will tell you, I don't thinkI've, I'm trying to remember how

(41:28):
many marathons I've run.
I think it's like 18 or 19.
I don't think I've ever had agood 18 miler.
It is my nemesis.
I don't like the 18 mile run.
It always goes poorly.
If I believe that, you know, ifI don't have a good 18 miler, I
wasn't going to do it.
I would never run a marathonagain.
A portion of people are going tohave a not great 20 miler.

(41:49):
It does not mean you're notgoing to have a great marathon.
You know, it is one of manyruns.
If you do everything along theway, Then it's just one of many
rounds.
There's one of 18 weeks worth ofruns.
And you can learn from what wentwrong on that 20 miler.
Is it what you ate?
Is it what you wore?
Is it how you slept?
Is it that you ran too much theweek before, too hard?

(42:09):
Did you try and make up milesand you didn't have the gas in
the tank, you know, learn fromwhatever it was that made that
20 mile ago badly have theconsistency for the rest of it.
And then you're going to have agreat run.

I'm just going to piggyback on that and say that I
think it's good luck to have abad, long run during the
training program.
I think everyone should have atleast one bad long run because
exactly what Alexia said youlearned from it.
You don't want your marathon tobe your bad long run.
Now, if you don't have a bad,long run, that's fine.
You're still get through themarathon.
It's great.
But I think that there's alwaysthat chance to learn from things

(42:42):
you learn, you know, oh my shoerubbed I won't wear those socks
during the marathon.
I didn't take enough nutrition,all these things that you get a
chance to practice during thelong runs.
Each long run is a dressrehearsal for the marathon and
treating it like that.
Treating it as a chance to seewhat works for you.
What doesn't work for you,experimenting with different

(43:05):
ways of eating or gettingnutrition.
You don't need to know it allnow.
We'll talk about this allthrough the training.
If you have that all or nothingattitude that every run has to
be good, that's going to put youin a state where you get too
nervous about the marathon toeven do it.
So it's great just to have thatattitude of, you know, what it
was bad.

(43:25):
I learned from it.
The other thing I will say is Ithink almost every runner cries
at some point during a long runor race either happy tears, sad
tears, frustrated tears.
I have coached so many runnerswho say, oh my gosh, I'm so
sorry.
I'm about to cry.
I'm trying not to cry.

(43:45):
I have cried at so many races.
Everyone, every runner I knowhas cried at a race or in a
training run.
Running is a really emotionalthing.
It brings out so much in us,especially if, to go back to the
very beginning, you have yourwhy and you think about your
Why, that can cause a lot ofemotions and you're going

(44:08):
through a lot.
So it is totally okay to cryduring the long run, embrace it.
Do it you'll feel better.

That's probably why everyone hates me at mile 21
where I'm like joke mile, wewere in there wise.
And I'm like, did you hear theone about.

Pat (44:27):
No, it's so true, and I mean I'll say this.
And you know, for those firsttime marathoners who are
listening to this podcast outthere, this isn't you, but not
every single person who startsthe training with you is going
to be there at the end of thetraining, whether that is out of
their control and they get aninjury, or whether that is that

(44:50):
they decide that this is not forthem.
Don't let that scare you.
Like I, I remember.
The first couple of runs I wasrunning with another
participant, we had a reallygood rapport, but they were very
anxious about the whole process.
And, you know, really just likenot sure that they could do

(45:12):
this.
And they ultimately did drop outof the program, but it's
important to still know thatthis is a sport where it's it's
you against you.
Right.
And that's it like everyone andthe Lincoln Square team has made
me look bad at one time oranother.

(45:32):
And I have made people look bad,mostly it's speed workouts.
Cause I used to be a middledistance runner, but it's true.
It's not a popularity contest.
We all have a lot of love foreach other.
It's really just, everybody'strying to get in their own
workout.
Everyone is, within their ownspace, like some people trained

(45:52):
over the winter, some did not,and that's okay.
You really just need to run yourrace, run your workout.
To stick with quotes I learnedabout these things called
running mantras in runner'sworld magazine.
And one of them that I saw thatI thought was really good is
forward is a good pace, which istrue because there's going to be
some days where you're fallingapart and you ate Popeye's

(46:16):
chicken the night before.
Cause you don't know anythingabout nutrition and you're like,
I am on mile six of 12 and I maydie.
You won't die.
I promise, but it's somethingwhere it's really about getting
in the mindset of, I can do thisand, and ultimately just putting
one foot in front of the other.

I'll say it once again training me for a marathon
is hard.
I'm not saying that to scareanyone away.
This is why we're dedicating 18or 19 weeks of training for it.
Let me amend that training for amarathon is hard, if you don't
put in the work.
I think training for a marathonis a perfect metaphor for you,

(46:56):
get out what you put in.
And if you get in and do thework, follow the process,
chances are you'll have a greatexperience.
You can definitely do this.
I guarantee you, you can do this

So I want to jump in because something that both,
both of you were saying reallyis important to me, which is
understanding and learning.
What motivates yourself.
This is I think fascinating.
It's a little poll that I giveto every group I run with midway

(47:28):
through the season.
But what I'm suggesting here atthe beginning is start to listen
to what, what makes you go, ohyeah, I can do this and what
makes you say, oh, no, forgetit.
I'm done.
And the example I throw out is,you know, distance, if you're a
run walker cycles, how many morerun walk cycles do we have or

(47:50):
time?
Right.
I learned this very much, thehard way when I was running,
with my first running partner,she was motivated by time.
She could say only 30 minutes.
You can do anything for 30minutes,and I would think oh my
God you want me to do this for30 more minutes?

(48:10):
That is impossible.
And for me, if you said a 5k,you've done a 5k before just a 5
K left.
That made sense to me, but forher, that was overwhelming.
So one of the tips and tricksthat I think is so important is
know what motivates you and whatde-motivates you and translate
it because someone is going tobe standing there or someone's

(48:31):
going to be in your group andsay, don't worry, only five
miles left.
And you're going to say, are youkidding?
But if you can translate that tosomething that works for you,
you can, you can kind of pullyourself out of that.
De-motivation get it into yourown motivation and go.
I personally love run-walkcycles because you can count
those down faster, right?
Only six more cycles, five morecycles, four more cycles.

(48:53):
It's quick or I'll translateinto landmarks.
Someone says certain amount ofmiles.
I look up, I say, okay, I'mgoing to have to go back.
You know, it's past thislandmark, past that landmark
under this bridge, over thatbridge up the hill and we're
done, I can translate it, itbecomes something that I can
work with and manage becausethis, I think, you know, we're
going to say it probably 20times, by the time we're done.

(49:15):
There's so much about this game.
That's mental.
You want to be keenly aware ofwhat's going on in your physical
body, that you're not hurtingyourself, but there is so much
where it's mental and you've gotto figure out what you can tap
into.
It could be your why it could bewhat, what you want to hear.
That's going to get you to sayto yourself, I can do this.
Cause it's really easy to getcompletely knocked off your own

(49:37):
course.
If somebody says somethingthat's de-motivating to you.
Just throwing in the mental gamepiece.
That's probably not where you'regoing.

Actually, it gives me the opportunity to
discuss something else whichcertainly requires motivation
and that is doing the workoutsthat we don't necessarily enjoy
doing.
Some people don't like to doHills, some people hate
intervals.
Some people don't like to doupper body work.
Everyone has their nemesis.
It's sort of human nature to bedrawn to the things we're good

(50:07):
at and try to avoid things thatwe don't like, or we're not good
at.
So runners love to run that'swhy they're runners.
And the schedule is going tohave some other components, like
maybe some cross training, somestretching, some strength work.
And if you're really not good atit, or it exposes a weakness,

(50:28):
you tend to shy away from it.
But as Alexia pointed out, ifyou could find a little games or
motivation or ways to make someof the more uncomfortable
situations, more palatable it'llhelp you get to those workouts.
And the other thing about thoseworkouts are if they are
challenging or they are hardthat's likely because they're

(50:49):
exposing a weakness you haveeither a muscle weakness or
imbalance, or something that youneed to be focusing on any ways.
So, if you could find themotivation that will get you
through those workouts and maybealleviate or prevent you from
shying away from doing some ofthose workouts that would be
great.

So I'll have one more motivational thing and then
I'll let it go because I'veliterally heard it in my head.
My worst marathon ever.
It was 39 degrees and raining,which is a really horrid
combination.
Wind off the lake got hit bywaves.
Cause we were on the lake frontfor part of it.
I was miserable.
I hated it.
I questioned everything aboutrunning and there was this guy

(51:28):
who, and it was a very smallrace with a very small crowd.
And there was a guy wholiterally looked at each of us
as we went by and said, you cando it.
He wasn't shouting at us.
He just looked at us and waslike, you can do it.
And it meant so much to me.
And so literally when I think,oh no, this isn't possible.
I hear him.
And I think you can do it.

(51:48):
So anytime, if I'm trying tomotivate someone for me, it's
you can do it because it mattersto me.
Right.
That phrase you can do.
It matters to me.
And you know, some people wantto have it be personal.
I can do it.
For me, that's not it.
I say you can do it.
And I think of that guy lookingme in the eye and saying, oh
yeah, even though you have 10more miles in the rain and the
wind, you can do it.

(52:10):
And, it matters.
So again, finding those thingsyou can dig into, whether it's
your personal, Why, whether it'sa mantra, whether it's a random
guy who looked me in the eye andtold me I could do it, you know,
remembering those things gonnabe useful to you over the course
of the training.

I was going to say, I think the follow that storing
those things up when you hearthem now, when you think of
them, you know, write them down,put it on your refrigerator, put
it on a bulletin boardsomewhere.
Remember it.
Like Alexia.
I was, I did a race this weekendand.
There was a small scout who wasat mile five of a 10 K.

(52:47):
And she looked at us and shethat's going, you have energy
inside you let it out.
And I kept thinking, you know,yeah, I do have more energy
inside and I just need to let itout because I was starting to
kind of be like, oh, I don'tknow if I I'm, I'm not really in
the mood right now.
And that's something now Istored up to use in future
races.
So keeping those things in mind,putting it somewhere where

(53:09):
you'll see it for me reallyhelps motivate me throughout the
marathon season.

Yeah, I love collecting little victories that
I can call upon.
During my runs where I may behaving a little difficulty or
I'm struggling, I could thinkback to.
Like Alexia was saying, maybeyou're running through terrible
weather or you're pushingthrough a really miserable time.
And knowing that you survivethat and your current situation

(53:36):
is no worse, likely better thanthat.
So part of putting into hardworkouts is having them as part
of your mental toolbox So onemajor thing about training with
CES that we haven't addressedyet is just the idea of training
as a group or with a group.

(53:58):
You know what you get from thegroup, the strength you get, the
motivation you get, all thebenefits that come along with
being involved with a group ofother runners with the same
goal.

I'll throw in a couple different things because
for me, I don't want to use myown personal experience.
I think, there's a few things.
I will start with the most woo,which is, I trained once with a
guy who was not a talker.
And I learned to love hearingthe footfall.
There was something reallymeditative to know that I wasn't

(54:32):
alone, that I, this guy was nextto me.
And just to listen to ourfootfalls and you kind of get in
sync with people as you'rerunning.
so that was just it becameincredibly beautiful and it was
still way easier than going by.
I am a talker.
I love hearing stories.
The other thing I love aboutrunning and is that, 16 miles is
sorta like two glasses of wine.

(54:54):
You start to learn a lot aboutpeople and people don't hold
back.
And so, it's sort of a reallywonderful thing and you start to
bond with people in a differentway at those really large
mileages.
So I think there is that piecethat personally, I've loved, I
think when you get into greatconversation, mileage passes.

(55:15):
I didn't know a thing aboutsoccer and there was a guy who
was a devoted soccer guy in oneof my groups.
And we, over the course of acouple runs learned basically
all the rules of soccer.
And it was fascinating.
I run with a guy who was aprofessor of Eastern philosophy.
I learned things I never wouldhave learned and miles flew by.
So I think there is thesolidarity piece.

(55:37):
Um, there's the knowing likewith my silent runner, knowing
that he was going to be there,right?
So the accountability of showingup for him and he showed up for
me.
There's what you can learn frompeople, the bonding that you can
have.
I think there's so many piecesand unlike Pat, I really enjoy,
some of those pieces.
So I think even if you are, andmaybe Pat, you can talk about,

(56:00):
you know, if you are more on theintroverted side, what you can
get from the group, I thinkthere's a full range of benefits
for people.

Pat (56:07):
Yeah, for me it was, it was a strange thing to find out
about myself throughout theprocess of running with the
group, because I am veryintroverted.
I am very averse to small talk,but like you said, when you're
in a group of endurance athletesand people who are without their
own knowledge becoming enduranceathletes, it's something where

(56:31):
you can really be very real, andvery authentic.
And that's the type ofconversations that I like to
have.
And I found a lot of that withinthose long runs, and, I found a
lot of motivation in otherpeople throughout the process.
One in particular was coachKelly, who was one of our
coaches that at, Lincoln Square,she was, pregnant with the

(56:53):
child, during the last marathontraining season and was still
doing the runs with us.
And I was like, this is the mostinspirational thing ever coach
Kelly's out here, like wonderwoman.
And I'm like, thinking aboutstopping.
All right, well, I'm just goingto keep going because she is
amazing.
And so if she can do it, I cando it.
We're going to get through thistogether.
And it's really about thosetimes when you're starting to

(57:15):
doubt yourself, that is when thegroup comes together and it's
also in, in a lot of ways, like,an anonymous club, if you will,
because I don't know mostpeople's last name.
I know more now that I'm apacer, but it's still something
where it's like, you know, if Iknow you're Michael, like I know

(57:36):
you as Michael, I don't knowwhat your last name is, but I
know we're friends and I know wecome on these long runs together
and we do these workouts and,That was really a kind of
inspiration for me.
And kind of the thing that Ithought to bring to the group
since I'm not much of aconversationalist, I wanted to
kind of take inspiration fromone of my passions of wrestling.

(57:57):
And I sort of pitched myself asthe hardcore legend, Mick Foley,
who who's one of my heroes.
So I was like, I don't care whatthe conditions are.
It can be pouring down rain.
Like we're watching to see ifthere's lightning, I'm going to
be there and everyone will knowthat I'm going to be there.
And so maybe that will motivatesomeone else to be there as
well, and so that was kind of,my almost non conversational way

(58:22):
of trying to contributesomething to the group.
And you just are able to meetpeople where they are in that
sense.

And I think that bonding leads to accountability.
You know, the weather may not begreat.
It's going to be rainy out thatday or incredibly hot and humid.
And I'm going to show up, so youbetter show up or there's half
mile repeats tomorrow and Ireally don't want to do them,
but if I'm going to sufferthrough them, you're going to

(58:50):
suffer through them with me.
I think that accountabilityreally helps you get through
some of those tough timesbecause there's going to be
tough times.

Pat (58:59):
And that's an important point because you think to
yourself when you sign up forthe marathon in January or in
March, like I did, you're like,oh, October, whew, that's going
to be really cold.
And, this is going to be greatmarathon running weather.
It's not always going to be thatway.
It certainly wasn't last year.
So it's good to get those longruns in, in the heat when you're

(59:23):
like, why am I doing this?
I should move to Alaska.
It's really good to get thosetraining runs in because you
never know what type ofconditions you're going to get
for that marathon.
And it's something you can'tcontrol, which is important to
remember.
And I had to kind of tell myselfthat going into the race as
well, but it's just trust thetraining and prepare yourself

(59:48):
for, no matter what thatconditions are going to be,
you've trained through it.
You're going to be fine.

I think that we all have an idea in our head of what
our pace is and it's not alwaysaccurate because we don't know
what other people's paces are.
There's really a home foreveryone in the groups.
Talk to the coaches.
If you're unsure of where youshould be.
We'll help you find a groupwhere you're comfortable.
You really want to be in a groupwhere you can talk, so you can

(01:00:15):
have all these conversations.
We're not going to leave anyonebehind.
So that's, I think reallyimportant to know.
And I think one of the otherthings I wanted to mention was
that I am someone who I'm prettyoutgoing once I get comfortable
in a group, but I am very shygoing into a new group and it's
okay to just sort of sit back,observe.

(01:00:40):
Figure out, even go betweengroups for the first couple of
weeks, figure out where you'remost comfortable, try out a
different pace group, you know,run beside someone new.
Maybe you have one person whoyou're really comfortable
running beside maybe someoneelse who you'd want to try, you
know, a different runningpartner, mix it up.
That's all fine.
Just, you know, if you run witha group and it feels too fast,

(01:01:03):
you don't have to run with thatgroup again.
Next week you can drop back apace group.
If you're not sure if there'sgoing to be a pace group that is
at your pace and slow enough,just talk to one of us, we can
help you find that pace group.
So don't worry about whereyou're going to fit in.
We'll help you find the place.

Coach Alexia (01:01:19):
Yeah, I think that's really beautifully said.
I think the piece that I wouldadd is that anxiety has mental
stress you don't have to carry.
Those expectations are much morein your own head than anywhere
else.
Finding that right pace group isgoing to help, but guess what?
Everybody is going to fallbehind one week because they're

(01:01:39):
having a bad week and that'sokay.
And, you know, rather thanhaving it be not only the
physical challenge, but themental challenge of it, you just
tell your pacer, Hey, I'm notfeeling great.
I'm going to drop to the nextgroup.
And the pacer says, great, goodto know if a coach is there,
they'll relay make sure that thenext piece of group was there to

(01:01:59):
catch you and we move on andit's okay.
So, as much as possible let thebad days just be the bad days
and you know, why were they bad?
What were the triggers for thembeing bad?
So you can adjust from it, butnot carrying any of that stress
because even though theconversation in the group that
you're in was the best ever,that next group, falling right

(01:02:21):
behind you is probably having apretty good conversation too.
Or if nothing else is just goingto embrace you to, to run back
with them as well.
So just don't let these thingsbecome more emotional than they
need to be.
Let the bad day be a bad day.

Coach Sonja (01:02:36):
And I think the other thing with that is that
one of the advantages of grouptraining is we aren't always our
best own cheerleader.
But most people are really goodat being cheerleaders for other
people.
So one of the things I've seenhappen in the group is someone
can be having a bad day orsomeone can be having a great
day and they might just be sortof so-so about, about it.

(01:02:58):
Or they might be really down onthemselves or having a bad day,
but the group will rally aroundthat person.
So many days we cheer for theperson who's done their longest
run, so many times we havesomeone who says, you know, I
know you're not feeling ittoday.
I'm not really feeling iteither.
Let's both drop back together.
So you find these connections inthe group.
And I think that that havingthat group training and having

(01:03:19):
someone else who can say to you,you're doing fine.
You're doing okay, you're goingto get through this sometimes
when you can't say it toyourself is really important
just to get through thetraining.

Pat (01:03:28):
Yeah.
And just to touch on that, andeven for those out there who are
maybe thinking about doing theprogram, virtually, you'll still
have the opportunity to come runwith the group for, the 20 miler
in that case.
And, I actually ended up runningwith one of our virtual runners
during my first 20 miler.
And, he and I kind of struck upa rapport over the run because

(01:03:50):
it's a long time, out there.
And, know, I saw that he wasdropping back towards the end of
the run and I knew that I wasgoing to be dropping back as
well.
And so it became the two of usmotivating each other.
We're going to make it this lastmile.
You know what, we're just goingto make that tree and then we're
going to make the next tree andwe'd got there.

(01:04:12):
We crossed the finish linetogether.
And so it's, it's really justabout, being open to helping
other people get through thatexperience.
Right.
And everyone in the group isfriendly and has been as
welcoming.
Whether they are someone who'smore reserved and quiet or
whether they are someone who'svery open and social.

(01:04:35):
So it's really just aboutallowing yourself to accept that
help and accept thatencouragement.
And then also turning around andgiving that back to others when
you can see that they need thattoo.

I wanted to say one more thing about the group
training with the weekday runs.
We talk a lot about the longruns and the importance of the
group and the long runs.
But I think if you can make oneof the weekday group trainings,
it's really easy sometimes tosay, well, I can just get that
done on my own schedule.
It's a shorter training.
I don't really need to go out tothe group run, but I know that I

(01:05:09):
was at Lincoln Square lastsummer with Pat and those group
runs during the week can be someof the best team building
experiences and so much fun.
It's an opportunity often to runwith people who you wouldn't
otherwise run with across pacegroups, depending how the
different stores structure themslightly differently, even
though we're doing the sameworkouts.

(01:05:30):
They're a great way to meet newpeople, really cheer people on
and get that differentbackground, I might not normally
be running with someone who'shad a track background, but on
those weekday nights, I'mrunning with a whole different
group of people who havedifferent backgrounds because
we're all running in the samespace.
So that pace doesn't become asmuch of an issue because we're

(01:05:52):
not out there on the long path.
So I really enjoy thoseweeknight runs.
If you're someone like me whoyears ago, I came with no
running background.
So the weekday ones were reallyintimidating and I just didn't
go when I first started trainingwith CES.
And now as a coach, I reallywish I had, because I just see
how much fun they are and what abenefit they are to the runners.

Coach Michael (01:06:12):
I'm so glad Pat brought up the virtual runners
because over the summer, there'sa lot of you out there.
And I want to make sure that,you know, even though you're not
able to join us in person forour group runs, there's a way
for you to get the support fromthe group.
And a lot of people do thatthrough our Facebook page.
Don't shy away from that, ifyou're looking for some

(01:06:34):
motivation.
If you've got questions.
If you're just feeling a littlebit lost.
I guarantee you, everyone whoposts on our Facebook page you
could get a lot of love and alot of support all season long.
So utilize that.
Along with that I know I've seenin the past where people who are
training virtually might reachout to other people who may be

(01:06:59):
in their general area I have arunning partner for some of the
longer runs throughout theseason.
So just no virtual folks you arepart of the group.
You're not on your own.
And on a side note.
A lot of times you're calledvirtual runners, but your actual
runners.
You're just virtualparticipants.

(01:07:20):
So there's a few more things wewanted to touch on before we
wrap up.
And one of those is theimportance of eating and fueling
your body.
Obviously, there's going to be alot of demands as you're asking
your body to get through 18, 19weeks of training.
Is there anyone who wants tostart us off?

Pat (01:07:38):
Sure.
Yeah.
I could start cause Iabsolutely, had to learn these
lessons the hard way, as afirst-time marathon runner, I,
at the beginning of the program,I will admit I had a terrible.
just as far as eating, whateverI wanted, not really thinking
about what I was eating.
Wasn't eating a lot ofvegetables.

(01:07:59):
You can get by with that for ashort amount of time in the
training program, but it willcatch up with you.
So it's important to becognizant of what you're eating,
make sure that, you know, you'realso hydrating, you know, drink
water, not just, sportsstrengths or things like that.

(01:08:21):
You definitely want to bedrinking water.
It's all part of the recoveryprocess because if you're not
putting.
Hydration back into your body.
If you're not putting nutrientsback into your body, it's going
to make everything else harder.
And you're going to lose alittle bit of what you just
fought so hard to gain throughthat workout through the long

(01:08:43):
run, to the speed workout.
And so, you'll also learn thatdifferent things sit with you
differently on different typesof runs.
Just as an example that I gaveearlier.
One time I ate Popeye's chickenthe night before a long run, and
this is a terrible idea inhindsight, but I definitely

(01:09:05):
learned that that is notsomething that you want to eat
before a long run.
And it's, so that's obviously avery outlandish example that is
true to tap into me, but youdefinitely want to make sure
that you are following, a lot ofthe advice of the coaches, of

(01:09:26):
your own doctors and such as faras what you're eating and to
make sure that you are makinggood choices, particularly
before hard workouts.

Yeah, I think that's so important.
And I think the piece I wouldadd is.
Listening to your body because,people will give you advice and
you will try it and it will workfor you, or it won't my very
favorite.
If I know I've got a hard runthe next day, I like to eat
Indian food, I will.
99% of the time I have a greatrun on Indian food.

(01:10:01):
think the majority of peopleI've said that to are like, are
you kidding?
So it's personal.
You know, other people mighthave their piece, but I learned
that over time.
And so now, like I seek out ifI'm traveling and I have a long
run, I find a local Indianrestaurant before my run because
I know it works for me.
So there is a piece of advice,but then there's checking in

(01:10:22):
with yourself.
How did that advice play out inyour body, in your situation?
And I think the other piece isthinking about not only
preparing for it, the run, butthere's also recovering for the
run.
So the day that you hadsomething, you know, you had
some protein and you had fluidsright after, did you feel better

(01:10:43):
or worse than the time when youskipped it or how to donut and
coffee, you know, how did thataffect your body?
And then, how are you fuelingyour body as you running?
Yeah.
There's lots of different piecesof advice that people can give.
And we will give over the courseof the season for you to try out
and see what works for you.
But you know, most of thosereally long runs, you probably

(01:11:05):
want to think about how you arefueling during the run and what
works for your body.

I think along with that, starting early making
notes.
So during these first few weeksof training, keeping track of
what you're eating the nightbefore the long run, and if you
don't eat normally eat breakfastbefore long runs, trying to get
something in your stomach beforea long run becomes really key
when you get toward the longerruns.

(01:11:30):
I know a lot of people are like,oh, I just really don't feel
great if I eat first thing inthe morning.
But when you start to hit 12,14, 16, 18 miles, it's really,
really hard almost impossible tomake it through that without
getting some sort of nutritioninto your body, talk to a coach
of you're in one of thosepeople, who's just like, I

(01:11:51):
really just can't eat anythingin the morning.
There's some liquid things youcan try, as well, but eating
early before a long run andtrying those when you were in
the first few weeks so that youcan figure it out before you're
getting to this high mileagereally, really helps.
I know everyone has their ownfavorite things.
I really like an English muffinwith peanut butter and jelly and

(01:12:14):
a banana before a long run.
But for other people that wouldbe a whole lot of food.
So it really depends on who thatis.

And peanut butter gives some people, some people,
nobody named names heatburn,right?
So I love it as recovery food,but pre-run oh, no.
It may sound sort of mystical,like, oh, listen to your body.
And all these things where, youknow, some of it is not going to
be settled.
Right?
So some of these pieces, you tryit and your body will tell you
in the grossest way that did notwork for you.

(01:12:41):
So, you know, some of this islistening to your body for
nuance.
And some of it is really goingto be right out there for like,
you're going to know.
Everyone's going to know it andthat's okay because everybody is
going to be going through it.
I'll do a plug for you, Michael,if you listen to the race day
prep episode, you will listen tothe race day prep.
You'll hear people say nothingnew on race day, figure out what

(01:13:02):
works, figure out what doesn'twork before you get going,

Definitely so don't be afraid to make
mistakes, make the mistakesduring training.
So you don't make them on raceday.
So just to finish up on thistopic.
I know some people come tomarathon training, looking to it
as a weight loss program.
And that's really not going towork very well because as we
said before, if there's no fuelin the tank, the car ain't

(01:13:27):
moving.
If you're concerned aboutcontrolling your weight or
calories we really recommend youconsult with a professional like
a sports dietician ornutritionist, someone with the
proper knowledge and training,that could provide you with the
right guidance.
A quote that struck me that Ithink break things down pretty
well is eat enough always, eattoo much sometimes, but never

(01:13:52):
not eat enough.
Not being adequately fueled canlead to a lot of issues,
including the risk of injury,which is something that I'd like
to address next.

Before we go to injury, depending on I think the
age of the person listening tothis, it's going to be more
resonant than others.
But what we are embarking on inmarathon training is hard work
and we both need to fuel ourbodies for recovery, but we also
need to sleep.
If we are not getting the sleepthat we need, our body is not

(01:14:25):
getting the chance to fullyrecover the way it needs to.
And you're more prone to injury,which I can use as a direct pass
off Michael, to your next topic.
But, it's something that youreally want to think about.
So as we're thinking about thetime commitment, slightly more
sleep is part of that timecommitment that if you really
want to do it well, you need togive yourself the chance to do.

Yeah, thank you so much for not letting us
overlook sleep and howsignificant sleep is to the
recovery process.
We have recovery built into ourplan.
Your schedule as I mentionedbefore we'll have weeks where we
take down the mileage and weallow our body to recover a
little bit.
So it's important to honor yourrecovery.

(01:15:05):
Be nice to your body becauseyou're demanding a lot from it.
All season long, we're going tobe talking about practices like
recovery and nutrition andmuscle maintenance your running
form and other practices to helpkeep you a healthy runner and to
avoid injury.
So as we said before, marathontraining is demanding.
We're asking you to commit 18,19 weeks to training and I'm

(01:15:31):
going to say a lot of you haveyou haven't done a marathon
before, have not reallyexperienced this sort of demand
on a regular basis.
And running is not necessarilythat kind.
Running as an impact sport withyour feet repeatedly striking
the ground.
If you do too much before yourbody's ready for it.That impact
is going to lead to problems andpossible injury.

(01:15:53):
That's why we emphasize stickingto the program, not adding extra
work.
It's not unusual for you to getsome soreness and some aches
because of these demands in yourbody.
But the secret is to not ignoreit.
Pain is your brain telling youthat something is up.
If you don't address thingsearly, it can make a small,
simple issue a major issue.

(01:16:13):
So, for example, you're having asore knee so start compensating
to avoid that pain.
All the sudden you're putting ademand on your hip.
And now you're having troublewith your hip.
It's sort of this chainreaction.
And so you're making a smallproblem that could have been
resolved with some rest or someexercise into a major problem
that might take you off the pathfor a while.

(01:16:34):
If you start experiencingsomething, some unusual ache or
pain.
Something that just doesn't feelright.
speak to a coach.
The coaches are not medicalprofessionals, but they have a
lot of experience with runningand they might be able to help
you determine if it's somethingthat maybe you can correct with
some rests or if it's somethingmore serious that you should

(01:16:55):
possibly seek the advice of aprofessional.
From my experience, most medicalpeople, most physical therapists
want to keep you running.
So if you're able to catch aproblem early, address it and
correct it.

I think you hit on most of it.
You are going to have aches,right?
And we are suggesting that youare trying things that are
asking you to tap into elementsof your physical being that
probably are not in the statethat we want them to be at the
marathon.
Right.
So there will be soreness fromsome of the strength workout
there, you know, all of that isokay.

(01:17:29):
I think what is really importantis the difference between an
ache and a pain, right?
If something hurts, it hurtswhen I step here.
Okay.
Well then go talk to somebody tofigure out if there's a
structural issue, if there's,whatever it is.
I think just again, back tolistening to your body, right?
If it's more than a little bitof a post-workout soreness, as

(01:17:50):
Michael said, get checked out.
One thing to just quicklyassess, and it will be one of
the first things that anybodycoach, pacer is going to say is,
how old are your shoes?
And are those shoes right foryou?
It is amazing how much the gearthat we are using can impact
this.
If you are running in stabilityshoes, but you don't need them,
are they pushing your bodyinternal alignment, that's

(01:18:12):
unnatural for you?
Just making sure that you'rerunning in the right gear for
you, and if that is the case,talking to somebody who can help
you quickly start to remedy theproblem before it becomes, a
massive season ending issue.

So that's another reason to be consistent in your
training.
If you've been pretty consistentwith your training and doing
most of the work that if youneed to take some time off to
recover, you'll be fine.
I know we've talked about ittoday and you'll hear it all
season try and do all theworkouts you can, but remember
your training is the sum of itsparts.
It's not one or two particularworkouts, it's all those pieces

(01:18:49):
that you put together over theseason.
So an analogy could be that sayfor every workout you're
shoveling a scoop of dirt into apile.
Every workout that pile getsbigger and bigger and bigger.
If you're gone for a couple ofdays, you return chances are the
piles gonna, still be there.
The wind, it might've blown alittle bit of way, but the bulk

(01:19:11):
of it is going to be there.
And that's the same with yourtraining, all those pieces that
you're doing now will beinvested in the big picture.
So missing some workouts torecover it's not going to harm
you.
Also at the same time.
Allow yourself to fully recover.
Otherwise, you're going to gothrough the cycle of reinjuring
yourself over and over andrisking either your performance

(01:19:33):
or your ability to get to thestarting line.

Pat (01:19:36):
And I think just one more thing on that, you know, I've,
I've had a lot of.
Injuries over the years hadseveral when I was in high
school and, recovered muchquicker from them.
And you think, oh, I've beenrunning for a long time or I've
had a lot of injuries.
So I know what's wrong.
I had some left ankle pain goingon in the weeks leading up to

(01:19:57):
the marathon.
I was like, oh, something'sgoing on with my ankle?
Interesting.
Went into Align Modern Health.
It turns out I had two ribs inmy upper back that were out of
alignment and that was what wascausing my ankle pain.
So you may think, you know,what's wrong, but go and talk to
a professional.

(01:20:18):
They will definitely help youout and be able to tell you
whether something is an injurythat you can continue to run on.
As I was able to complete themarathon and just kind of stay
within physical therapy for alittle while there.
Or if it's something where youreally do need to take that
break from training, becauseit's something more serious.
It's always good to get thatprofessional opinion.

We could go on forever.
I've got papers in front of mewith lists and lists of things
we could cover, but we have along training season and we will
be talking to you either throughannouncements or on the path,
but, hopefully this is a goodstarting point for those
conversations.
So to wind things up, I'm goingto put you three on the spot.

(01:21:01):
I apologize I didn't give youany advanced warning about this,
but before we end, I wondered ifwe could just go on a, go
around.
And everyone lists one thingthey wish they would have known
going into their first marathontraining cycle.

Pat (01:21:17):
I got one right now.
So everyone talked to me aboutthe concept of chafing and was
focused on like one specificarea to watch out for.
But let me tell you that chafingcan happen to you anywhere.
I have got the chafing on my earbefore, because I too was

(01:21:43):
talking to someone on the phonewhile I was doing a weekday run.
it can happen.
It's all about friction.
You can get it on the top ofyour foot.
Just know that there's ways tomanage through that.
I particularly use, Aqua phur,to put on pre-run to be able to
manage with the different areasthat, can potentially be chafed

(01:22:05):
during the run, but just knowthat it is not just something
for one area of your body andthat you know, there are ways to
make yourself more comfortableand to recover from that just
like you would with yourrecovery, nutrition and
everything else so that youdon't have to be in intense pain
through your long runs.

So mine is a little, it's very personal, but
very applicable to everyone.
Mine is you can't control theweather, so learn to accept it.
I trained for chicago 2007,which was black flagged back
before they had the black flagsystem.
And that means that it wascanceled mid race.
So I got to mile 16 of my firstmarathon and was told to go back

(01:22:47):
to the start.
The marathon was over.
At that point I was really luckybecause I was training with CES.
I went back to the CES at thetime of tent.
Got hugs from all the coacheswho said you, how did you feel
out there?
I'd been really smart about it,I took it really slow.
They told me to take it as atraining run and I was able to

(01:23:08):
sign up for another marathon acouple of weeks later, where I
did my first marathon, in myhome state of Ohio with my whole
family there.
And it was a fantasticexperience better than I
could've expected.
It was also very hot, but I wasprepared.
And I've done a lot of hottraining sessions.
I've gotten a lot of coldtraining sessions.

(01:23:29):
Sometimes training will becanceled because of lightning.
That's something that you justcan't control.
So don't stress out about it.
Learn to be smart about it,learn to dress properly for it.
Be okay with it because theweather is going to be what the
weather is.
And whatever your marathon dayis, you will make it through and

(01:23:50):
you will run your marathon.

So I'm gonna say one thing about my first
marathon and then I'll throw insomething that I figured out
much, much later in mymarathoning life.
It's less that I wish someonehad told me and more something
that I valued learning when Icrossed the finish line.
I'm a middle of the pack runner,very much a middle of the pack

(01:24:11):
runner.
And I crossed the finish linethinking I had done this amazing
feat and having done an amazingheat and I love my finisher's
photograph because crossing thefinish line at the same time as
me as a man and a seventiesyears and a woman who is very
heavyset and it really remindsme that this is a sport for

(01:24:32):
anyone who decides this is whatthey're going to do.
My mother for her 70th birthday,we ran, walked her first
marathon you know, it really isabout deciding that this is what
you want to do, putting in thework to do it and doing it.
And I look at that picture,which I was too cheap to buy
cause I was too young.
So it's not, you know, the twoby one sample that they used to

(01:24:52):
send you back in the day.
But I look at that and I remindsme like, this is really for
anybody that decides they wantto do it.
And that's one of the things Ilove about endurance running.
The other thing which I wantedto kind of throw in here, which
I probably learned many, many,many marathons later is, your
why of running the marathon doesnot have to be a time goal or an

(01:25:14):
accomplishment goal.
You could really be out there toenjoy the journey.
And that's okay too.
I was taught marathoning fortourism by a dear friend.
We would run before you had cellphones with photographs.
We ran with cameras, we tookpictures.
You can go to see a city you canreally have many reasons for
doing this.

(01:25:34):
And whatever reason you pick istotally valid.
If you're out there to meet newfriends and to try something
new, fantastic.
If you have a time goal,fantastic, we can help you
achieve whatever that is.
But whatever your goal is isokay, cause this is really a
sport for everyone.

What a perfect message to wrap things up on.
I want to thank coach Alexia andcoach Sonia and a special thank
you to Pat.
I think being able to share theexperience of a participant was
really beneficial to thediscussion.
And for those listening,remember, this is just the start
of the conversation.
The coaches will be sharing lotsof information all season long.

(01:26:14):
Allow yourself to absorb it all.
Do not hesitate to askquestions.
Embrace the journey because it'sa wild ride.
For those training with us forthe first time, I recommend you
checking out our podcast titledNew Member Orientation, which
will lay out a lot of the nutsand bolts of how CES does things
and what you could expect fromthe training process.

(01:26:37):
Thank you again for listening tothe Chicago Endurance Sports
podcast.
Be sure to subscribe so you donot miss a single episode.

you can do it

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Your 1st Marathon - Embracing The Training

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Your 1st Marathon - Embracing The Training