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March 4, 2025 • 13 mins

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Have you ever wondered if one of your patients has bipolar? On this episode, we talk about the red flags for bipolar - and questions you can ask to determine whether they may have bipolar. We discuss key signs such as the inability to regulate upside mood, decreased need for sleep, hypersexuality, and grandiosity, providing concrete examples and questions to help guide your clinical assessment. Join Dr. Elise Fallucco and Dr. John Walkup as they offer valuable insights into distinguishing bipolar disorder from other conditions like ADHD and anxiety.

00:00 50 - RED FLAGS for Bipolar w/ Dr. John Walkup

01:30 ***Not all MOOD SWINGS are bipolar***

02:10 RED FLAGS for BIPOLAR - Inability to regulate UPSIDE mood

02:28 Appetites for FUN and Mood

04:22 Energy Drive - Wake up ready to go

04:52 What Questions to Ask about SLEEP to see if they could have bipolar

06:03 Hypersexuality in KIDS presents as interest in romance

07:06 Grandiosity

Check out our website PsychEd4Peds.com for more resources.
Follow us on Instagram @psyched4peds

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Elise Fallucco (00:00):
Welcome back to Child Mental Health for

(00:02):
Pediatric Clinicians.
I'm your host, Dr.
Elise Falucco, childpsychiatrist and mom.
In honor of our 50th episode, weare tackling a really important
topic.
This is the question that manyof us have encountered, and one
of our listeners, Dr.
Carolyn from Minnesota, hadwritten in and said, So many of

(00:25):
her patients go to Dr.
Google and look up symptoms andthen come to her saying, I think
I have bipolar.
How can we help familiesdetermine what is and what is
not bipolar?
Here to help us with this topicis one of my favorite podcast
guests and colleagues, theinternationally known child and

(00:46):
adolescent psychiatrist, Dr.
John Walkup.

Dr. John Walkup (00:51):
Hi, Elise.
It's so good to be with you.

Dr. Elise Fallucco (00:54):
I can't go through your whole bio because
that's a whole podcast.
But suffice it to say, you are afrequent flyer.
You should be in the rewardsprogram, I think.

Dr. John Walkup (01:03):
Yes, exactly.
It's so much fun that, we get totalk about things here that we
never talk about anyplace else.
And I think that's probably whyyour listeners like it, because
it's it's on the ground.
It's real.
And it's it's about how doctorsreally think about stuff.

Dr. Elise Fallucco (01:16):
Yes.
So let's go ahead and dive in.
The most common thing I've heardfrom patients is sometimes I
feel really angry or upset andthen other times I'm fine or
super happy.
And so I think I have bipolar.

Dr. John Walkup (01:30):
yeah.
There's also the, just the kindof confusion about bipolar
because we use things like moodswings.
And as soon as somebody has amood that swings, all of a
sudden they think they may havebipolar disorder where ADHD has
mood swings, anxiety has moodswings, depression has mood
swings, life has mood swings.

(01:52):
Mood, moods are supposed toswing a little bit.
It's where they swing to thatkind of defines people who are
in that bipolar world.

Dr. Elise Fallucco (02:00):
So to help us tease out which kids are in
this bipolar world, can youshare some red flags or clinical
symptoms that would make youworry about possible bipolar in
a child?

Dr. John Walkup (02:10):
so what I'm really looking for is inability
to regulate upside mood, whichis a different way of talking
about expansive elevated mood.

Dr. Elise Fallucco (02:23):
Could you share like a clinical example of
somebody who's unable toregulate upside mood?

Dr. John Walkup (02:28):
When I think about upside mood, I think a lot
about appetites.
Appetites for fun, appetites forpleasure, appetites for food.
In teenagers, it's appetite forstreet drugs.
It's appetite for risk.
So when you're seeing kids whohave lots of appetites I think
about bipolar disorder.
And and that's that upside moodthing, because we all feel, we

(02:51):
all get engaged when we'rehappy, we want to do more, we
want to live life, we can,feeling freed up, these folks
feel that way all the time andthey go gobble it up.
That, that kind of intensity iswhat I'm looking for when I'm
thinking about classic bipolar,particularly bipolar that isn't
obviously diagnosable.

Dr. Elise Fallucco (03:09):
something that I like to anchor my history
taking on in trying to sort outbipolar has to do with decreased
need for sleep.
Cause that sometimes can be moreconcrete or easier to figure
out.
In theory, our kids with bipolarcan stay up all night or just
need two or three hours of sleepor, just a couple hours of
sleep.
And can still be fine the nextday and can keep doing that kind

(03:32):
of day in and day out for atleast five days, sometimes even
longer.
How do you go about teasingdecreased need for sleep?

Dr. John Walkup (03:41):
Yeah.
some of these kids that come tocare have been diagnosed with
ADHD and impulsive aggression,like DMDD diagnoses.
And so they're sleeping finebecause they're on a dose of,
Abilify seven and a half atbedtime, right?
So you you always have to ask,what's their sleep?
Oh, they sleep fine.
Oh, yeah.
How about before?
If they're not on the Abilifyputting them to sleep at night.

(04:04):
The other thing that, I'm awareof is that people with bipolar
disorder wake up instantly,which is a different deal.
I don't know if you rememberdoing rounds in training and you
walk into the room of a patientwith bipolar disorder, they're
like, They're ready to go.
They don't do that kind of, Oh,

Dr. Elise Fallucco (04:20):
Stretch your arms.

Dr. John Walkup (04:22):
yeah, they don't do that.
They are like bang and ready togo.
They are full on within a minuteof within a second of waking up.
It's that energy drive that'sdifferent than hyperactivity
that you see in ADHD.
And again, it's a qualitativedifference that the clinician
needs to get a feel for.

Dr. Elise Fallucco (04:43):
Back to the sleep How do you approach asking
kids and families aboutdecreased need for sleep if
they're not already on a sleepaid?

Dr. John Walkup (04:52):
Yeah it's how much sleep do they need to be
rested and ready to go.
And some of these kids willsleep five hours, but they're up
earlier and they're raring to goalmost instantaneously.
It's a different kind of fallingasleep ritual.
Then what with kids with ADHD,where sometimes they're so
hyperactive at bedtime, it'sjust difficult to even lay down

(05:12):
these kids are more engaged inmental activity or in their
appetites, the things they wantto do they're gobbling up
experiences till 11, 12, 1o'clock, then they'll sleep,
then they'll wake up early.
They won't look tired during theday that's different than the
anxious kid who has troublefalling asleep and then wakes up

(05:32):
tired or exhausted.
Yeah

Dr. Elise Fallucco (05:35):
That's really helpful.
So to recap, we've talked aboutsome red flags or cardinal
symptoms of bipolar.
One being their mood, troubleregulating upside mood with a
big appetite for fun.
Number two, having to do withsleep, decreased need for sleep
and waking up instantly withtons of energy.

(05:55):
A third red flag for bipolar ishypersexuality.
Can you talk about what thatlooks like in kids?

Dr. John Walkup (06:03):
They're a little bit more preoccupied with
sexual behavior than most kidsare in the prepubertal group
that's sometimes, scatologichumor.
Hyper reactivity of those thingsthey see on television.
So people who are kissing orhaving some kind of romantic
thing, they get overstimulatedby that when they see that on
television.
They're not hypersexual per se,but sexual matters are exciting

(06:26):
to them.
It's that appetite thing.
And you'll see that in kids andfamilies will talk about, Boy,
you just can't have a romantickind of show on the television
around this kid because all of asudden he gets triggered by it.

Dr. Elise Fallucco (06:39):
and you said scatologic humor?
Did you mean talking about poop?

Dr. John Walkup (06:42):
I did.
I did.
Pee and poop and people poopingand, making noises and, they
just love that stuff becauseit's offensive.
It's funny.
All kids get, have fun withthat.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But It's just, again, aqualitatively different feel for
their investment in these kindsof jokes and humor, body

(07:04):
functions and stuff.
And then let's talk a little bitabout the grandiosity, like
maybe some examples fromclinical cases of, what do we
mean when we say grandiosity?
It's very specific to who thekid is and what they're
triggered by.
But it's a, it's anexpansiveness, not just
happiness, right?

(07:24):
It's a bigger than life kind ofpicture or look.
the silliest one is I want to beSuperman.
Every eight year old, I've evermet wants to be Superman.
And so what I tell families is,if they say that's fine, but
what's the engine that's drivingit?
And then is it that, that, thatenergy surge that's really
driving that?

(07:45):
And is there some kind of lossof grounding when they talk
about Superman almost as if theycould be Superman.
Some of these kids they love toargue.
That's the other thing.
And families will think aboutthem as a future lawyer.
But they'll argue with teachers.
They're arguing with principals.
They'll have ways of running theclassroom.

Dr. Elise Fallucco (08:06):
So some of the obvious red flags for
bipolar, we would say would beAn inability to regulate their
upside mood.
So being very expansive,euphoric for an extended period
of time or with a high degree ofintensity that we wouldn't
expect, sometimes that'saccompanied by elaborate
thinking and kind ofgrandiosity.

(08:26):
Intense focus on whatever theirgoal activity is, whether it's
painting or writing

Dr. John Walkup (08:33):
In adults, it's gambling.
It's pornography.
It's buying things, sellingthings, it's that kind of stuff.
And you just have to walk itback developmentally to see what
those things would look like in,in in kids

Dr. Elise Fallucco (08:47):
It's yeah, increased focus with pleasurable
activities And sometimes that'sdrugs.
Sometimes that's risk takingbehavior.
Sometimes that's You know, hypersexual behavior

Dr. John Walkup (08:57):
yeah, the other thing is I've never met one of
these kids who's happy.
Yeah.
To be honest.
And so I think sometimes peoplemake the mistake to think about
grandiosity and euphoria ashappiness.
These kids are miserable.
And the reason they're miserableis that nobody likes them.
They're not functioning well.

Dr. Elise Fallucco (09:13):
Nobody

Dr. John Walkup (09:14):
appreciates the kind of drive for their
appetites and supports theirdrive for those appetites.
So they always feel like theworld is frustrating them.
And that's not depression.
That's really just the kind ofdemoralization that comes from
Being afflicted with inabilityto regulate their appetites in a
way and the world just is notgoing to support them.

(09:36):
Most of us are pretty boring andthese kids don't want to be
boring for one minute of theday.
And when we frustrate them andexpect that they do boring
things like get up and getdressed and go to school and
function.
In routine kind of familyactivities and stuff when we put
those expectations on them, theyget frustrated by them, and they
become unhappy because they'remisunderstood and their

(09:59):
appetites are not facilitated.

Dr. Elise Fallucco (10:01):
So

Dr. John Walkup (10:01):
you sometimes see this.
It's a mixed picture of pressureand intensity, but really great
unhappiness because nobody getsthem.
Nobody understands them.
And people are gettingfrustrated and unhappy with
them.
I don't call that a mixedepisode, but you do see this
kind of mixture betweengrandiosity and misery.

Dr. Elise Fallucco (10:22):
It's almost as if they need so much to hit
their pleasure center.
It's not just Oh, somebody tolda great joke.
That's funny.
I'm in a great mood.
Like they've got to go to theextreme and it's, more excessive
drug use, excessive sexualactivity, whatever the thing is
that gives them pleasure.
They need it at a much higherlevel.
Then, and nobody's,

Dr. John Walkup (10:42):
nobody's going to support that.

Dr. Elise Fallucco (10:44):
No, and that's got to be so frustrating.
It makes me think we should haveso much empathy for people who
are going through all of thisbecause they're really not
truly, as you're saying, they'renot really happy on the inside
and they're, experiencing a lotof failure and frustration.

Dr. John Walkup (11:00):
And one of the things with good treatment is as
they get better regulated interms of their mood management,
their relationships come back

Dr. Elise Fallucco (11:09):
So we've covered a lot of content, and
I'm gonna break it down withsome final tips.
Basically, when your patient ortheir family, or you are
concerned that you have apatient with bipolar, here are
the questions you should ask.
First, let's ask about sleep.
Are they having trouble fallingasleep at night because they're
so involved with doing exciting,enjoyable things?

(11:32):
Do they only need a few hours ofsleep and can wake up instantly
ready to go with plenty ofenergy throughout the day?
The next questions have to dowith their mood.
When their mood is up, do theyget so excited that they chase
more and more pleasure, whetherit's drugs or food or whatever
it is?
Are they so consumed withgobbling up pleasurable

(11:54):
experiences that it's hard forthem to return to a regular mood
state?
And finally about grandiosity.
Do they truly believe thatthey're better, smarter,
stronger, wiser than everybodyelse, that they could get up and
teach the class and then getfrustrated?
'cause nobody understands them.
These would be the questions tothink about when you're

(12:15):
wondering if somebody could havebipolar, and if you're driving
around or walking around ordon't have time to write these
questions down, don't worry.
We've got you.
Check out our website at psychedfor peds.
That's P-S-Y-C-H-E-D, the numberfour peds.
dot
com
Where we'll have a list of these questions
to ask when you're concernedabout bipolar.

(12:36):
And of course, regardless if youhave a hunch that something's
not right, that symptoms are notquite fitting into A DHD or
anxiety or whatever, pleaseconsult your child's psychiatry
friend or your state's hotline,and we hope you'll tune in next
week.
Where we will continue theconversation with Dr.
Walkup about gray cases thatcould be bipolar.

(12:59):
Thanks again for listening.
See you next week.
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