May 15, 2024 • 33 mins
2024 1030 “ACA Helped Me Rewrite My Story” is a powerful discussion about the program Adult Children of Alcoholics/Dysfunctional Families (ACA). Larry, Michele and Rhonda share about the program, how they became involved with ACA, and how they came to answer the question “How do I fix me?” and began to learn and realize there is nobody to blame and how the program has helped each of them rewrite their individual story.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi everyone, my name is Rusty and I'm an alcoholic.
(00:04):
And I'm Tim and I'm an alcoholic and this is Children of Chaos.
Hi, I'm Larry and I'm an alcoholic.
Hi, I'm Michelle, alcoholic, ACOA, Al-Anon, and many many other things.
And I'm Rhonda, Al-Anon, and ACOA.
Today we're going to be talking about ACOA, adult children of alcoholics.
(00:26):
And I'm really excited about this because the big red book, as we call it, of ACOA has changed my life in many many respects.
And I want to start out reading the Daily Affirmation book, Strengthening My Recovery.
Me and my wife read this every morning and we always get into some real good talks.
(00:51):
So today I wanted to focus on family disease with this affirmation.
It says, many of us have children who will possibly qualify for ACOA one day due to transferring our disease of family dysfunction to them.
We remember wondering as we were growing up why life was so bad for us and not for other kids.
(01:16):
We fantasized about how differently we would treat our children.
They would never feel like this because we'd be the best parents, the parents we always wanted.
However, most of us weren't able to fulfill that fantasy.
We wanted to act like loving parents but often found ourselves doing the opposite.
(01:40):
What was wrong with us? These were our little children.
Why couldn't we do things better? And the guilt began to plague us.
We didn't yet realize that the effects from our childhood were so ingrained in us.
No matter what we promised ourselves, no matter how sincere we were, we repeated the same behavior.
(02:04):
In ACA, we are relieved to hear others speak about the same guilt, about their inability to be the parent they wanted to be.
It's a relief to know we aren't alone.
We learned that the way to heal the relationships with our own children is to first heal ourselves by recovering from the baggage we've carried from our childhood.
(02:29):
As we do so, we begin to lift our heads and free ourselves from the guilt that is keeping us stuck.
We begin to change the way we do things.
The saying for this day is, on this day I will focus on my own recovery and heal myself first,
knowing this is how I will have the most positive impact on my loved ones.
(02:53):
That pretty much says it all for me.
Through ACA, and I'm still an active member and Alcoholics Anonymous, and I still go to my Al Anon meetings,
but ACA brought so much clarity.
I've never seen a book lay it out the way that it does in this book.
This guy gets right to the heart of it, and every page has spoken to me.
(03:18):
I want us to go around and each of us give a brief history of your recovery.
Rhonda, you want to start?
My recovery comes because I did not grow up with parents who were addicts, per se.
I didn't have that that I know of in my family history, except for that somewhere dysfunction came in.
(03:42):
I mean, I guess everybody has a dysfunctional family, right?
And so it started to show up in siblings.
I have siblings that are alcoholics, addicts, and a lot of when you read in the Adult Children of Alcoholics
Big Red Book, like Rusty was talking about, man, I see myself, even though I didn't show up with having alcoholism
(04:09):
or drug addiction, there are so many behaviors that I have that are really very alcoholic or addict-like.
And you just go, wow, where did those things come from?
Where did that come from? I don't really understand it.
But thank God for the program because it really has.
I've learned so much in the years that I've been in recovery.
(04:33):
I came into the program because I was married to an addict, an alcoholic.
And going to those meetings, I started to see myself in all of that.
And I'd come in thinking we're going to fix the person that we're there with.
And then you start recognizing, wow, I have so many of those traits myself.
(04:55):
And so then you start going, I'm not here for that person.
I'm really here for me.
And I came into the program in 99.
I've kind of been in and out of it.
I actually worked at a facility where there were addicts and alcoholics that were long-term addicts.
(05:18):
And that was a great experience for my life.
I did that for two or three years and really learned a ton there.
But again, they had had huge ramifications from their addiction.
But I still just relating to them, I could see myself so much and things that I had experienced in my life.
(05:39):
So anyway, that's why I have stayed in the program until this point.
And really one of the meetings that I attend regularly, that we use the ACOA book a lot, has just been very profound for me.
How about Michelle?
Hi, I'm Michelle.
I have 20 years of sobriety and consistently been in ACOA and AA.
(06:07):
I never want to drink anymore.
That's not my problem.
At some point, about four or five years sober, I was pretty miserable.
And I thought, I need more than this.
Where do I go?
What do I do?
And one of my groups started reading out of this big red book, which I believe is advanced coursework.
(06:29):
It is really deep and can trigger you.
So I think it's really important for a lot of people to have some sobriety, emotional sobriety, and get the plug in the jug, so to speak, for me before I got started on this, because it wouldn't have made as much sense.
(06:52):
But my first addiction was food, people pleasing and co-dependence from a very, very young age.
I have really perfectionist parents.
They're good people.
They aren't alcoholics.
Well, I mean, they're workaholics.
They're just people.
And I had extra sensitivities to things.
(07:15):
And I got off to a really bad start with them wanting me to be in kindergarten at four.
And so it was just a calamity of life.
And I have just found a lot of answers through this big red book and through the fellowship and a lot of support groups.
And I think the magic in those is the hope and the groups of people that we surround ourselves with that help me interpret all these books.
(07:47):
I think there's divine information in this book and the AA book.
It's timeless.
It's simple, but it's not easy.
Thanks, Ms. Yaffler.
I'm Larry.
I'm an alcoholic.
I started Alcoholics Anonymous 29 years, 39 years ago.
Alcoholics Anonymous actually saved my life, but it also sent me on a journey to get to where I'm at today, which is with ACA, Al Anon.
(08:14):
I came from a very dysfunctional family.
It was very violent.
My father owned nightclubs and bars, and he drank all the time.
And see, that's what I thought, is I came from a normal family.
They were normal.
That's what normal people did.
They drank and fought and fussed and come here, go away.
What I've learned in ACA, Al Anon and AA, I was a depressive.
(08:35):
What I'd do is I'd go in and out of relationships.
I'd be happy when I got in them.
And when I ran them off, if you don't leave me, I'll find somebody that will.
I was depressed again.
Then I had to find somebody else that would make me happy, because when I had her, I was happy again.
Now, the happiness didn't last long, because pretty soon I was inflicting my sickness upon that person.
(08:57):
My mother and dad, my mother was a, she was a, she triangulated my brothers and I.
And I learned all of this in ACA.
I tell you, ACA has changed my life.
It's like a Ph.D. of alcoholism and drug addiction.
Bill W. said, alcohol is but a symptom of our disease.
And this book covers those symptoms.
(09:18):
I was very fortunate when I came to Alcoxenomas.
There was a guy here named Gil Baker who was probably the happiest man I've ever met in my life.
He was as free as a bird.
And he was hilarious.
And he was always talking about that mommy daddy shit.
I figured out what that is.
It's in this red book.
And here's another thing.
While Rusty was talking while I go, he was reading that book.
(09:40):
I want to be the, I am the one that has broken the cycle of alcoholism in my family right now.
My son, they have a drink, but they don't get knee-walking drunk like I did.
He has an eating disorder, but he'll have to look at that himself.
I had an eating disorder myself.
I've tried everything to stuff to fill that hole inside me.
Today, I was thinking about this on the way over here.
(10:03):
I am free of fear and free of worry.
I have never been that way before.
I was always worried about being broke.
My mother said what saves things when I'm five years old, like we're going to starve to death.
Well, in a healthy relationship, healthy family, children feel secure and loved.
I didn't feel secure.
You can't feel secure when you're worried about starving to death.
(10:26):
And the violence that I saw around there, I was taught to lie.
Mom and dad would beat the crap out of each other.
Well, basically, he'd beat her.
Then they'd drop us off at my grandparents, and they'd say, here's where the lie comes.
When you go in there, they're going to ask you how you're doing.
Well, you're going to tell them you're fine.
So when I went in there, and my two brothers were visibly shaken, they would ask, what's going on?
(10:49):
Everything's fine.
So I learned so much out of this red book about why I acted out the way I did.
It's changed my life.
Today, I have been in a relationship for 25 years.
Before, I could never stay in one.
I have a great wife.
I have a great life.
And this book put the icing on the cake for me for my recovery.
(11:10):
I love it.
Glad to be here.
Thanks, Larry.
You know, what everybody has said already is so bountiful for me, because what ACOA has helped me do is to move past any victimization that I still carried with me.
And it also puts in there that my parents, no matter what they were doing, were doing really the best they could with the information they had.
(11:39):
And you know, and then what I noticed is I started to lighten up on myself also for my kids, because I carried a lot of guilt about my kids.
And knowing that I had done the best I could, even though it wasn't good enough for them, it wasn't probably good for what they needed.
It was the best I could do at that time.
(12:01):
So something else I want to talk about, how does ACOA speak to you where maybe AA or Al-Anon has it?
That extra stuff that you're getting, is it in the way that the guy wrote the book?
Because it's brilliant.
I happen to be a therapist, also in my own recovery, but a therapist for many years.
(12:26):
And I do family systems work.
I've read so many books on family systems.
And when I read the ACOA book, it's just like, wow.
Just the way it's written, it just brings it all forth, right?
It puts it on the table right in front of you.
So what would you say, Rhonda, where it's helped you the most in relationships with others?
(12:50):
Well, it does, like you're saying, it absolutely makes you go, wow, I am a flawed person. This is a flawed person.
But we can work it out.
It speaks very much to how to handle life, I think, on a really intense basis, though,
because in that program, we talk as a group in the meeting that I attend very deeply to each other
(13:18):
and share our real—we really spill our guts in there a lot.
And that makes you sit back and go, wow, I'm experiencing those same things, potentially,
but this is how I can handle that.
And I think that's true about that book.
It tells you kind of in detail how to live life.
(13:41):
That, to me, is the depth of it.
It really tells you how to live life.
And then in the talking with other people who you can relate to, I mean, that's the gist of all 12-step programs, right,
is how to—you can relate to other people because they can relate to you, and we can all work it out together.
(14:08):
I'm not in this by myself.
For me, AA told me that if you're an alcoholic, you're selfish, and you need to focus on other people.
And maybe that is true, but for me, I focus too much on other people,
and ACA taught me that I need to focus on myself and reparent and re-raise my inner child.
(14:37):
And so a lot of that work is me on me, and I needed that because I needed to know the balance of boundaries
and people-pleasing and perfectionism and all of these traits in life that were causing me problems once I no longer wanted to drink again.
(14:59):
And I definitely—I was a serious alcoholic.
I went to meetings off and on for 10 years, couldn't catch 30 days.
I mean, it was a real gift when I finally got sober.
But after a few years, I really was unhappy.
Where things manifested for me mostly was in my relationship with a significant other.
(15:27):
My work was fine. My friendships were fine.
My health is fine. I have all these silos that are in really good shape.
But love or connection with a significant other was really eluding me.
I thought intimacy was sex.
I did not realize how intimacy really worked and the honesty and the integrity of relationships and trusts.
(16:00):
And so, yeah, I learned a lot about that.
But that wasn't really the problem.
I'm still working that one out.
I'll have to get you the answer to that one on another episode.
That's really all I have right this second.
Okay. I love it. That's great.
Briefly, I'd just like to say that just coming in this room and sitting down with you people
(16:26):
and hearing my story over and over again, this is the bosom of the family for me.
These people are my friends.
Twelve-step programs, AA, Al-Anon, and ACA, is my spiritual life and my social life.
That's really the truth.
I don't have my sport as tennis, but these people, I get goosebumps listening to your information.
(16:51):
I know what intimacy is today, and it's not sex, and that's exactly what I thought it was.
I think one of the biggest things I've learned from all the 12-step programs,
but this book supersedes anything I've ever read in my life as far as our challenges,
is I don't have any resentment towards another human being.
I'm not mad at anybody, and I used to walk around mad at people I hadn't even met.
(17:15):
That's the way I came in here.
I came from a violent family in the rage, then getting beat as a child, I would hold that stuff in,
and then I would inflict it on somebody when they got in my way.
So I don't have that anymore.
I get to walk around free on the planet today and have fun.
I like having fun.
If this stuff wasn't fun, I wouldn't be here.
That I mean.
But I love these people, and I'm glad you invited me, Rusty.
(17:38):
Thank you, Larry.
I wanted to read this to you if I could.
This is how ACOA speaks to you.
And I want to read what I said here.
It speaks to me as no other recovery book has.
In ACOA, the focus is not on my character defect as it is in other, you know,
(18:00):
but it focuses more on my self-defeating behaviors
and not blaming my parents.
It took every bit of that away from me.
And not allowing me to not live my life as a victim.
That's the big one that had gotten to me over these years,
(18:22):
is that when we get here, we're all victims.
We don't know it.
Don't have a clue.
If you'd have said that to me in the beginning, man, I would have been PO'd.
So that's what it is for me.
Larry, why don't you start out this time?
What is the most powerful message that ACOA has given you versus other 12-step programs?
You just said it.
(18:43):
It's not having any blame for anybody.
There's nobody to blame.
Everything I did in my life up to this point was to get me here.
And I've learned more about letting go of resentments and stuff in here
because I think I held resentment with my mother for years.
Even when I went and made my amends to her for holding that resentment,
I think it was still in the back of my mind.
(19:05):
But today it's not.
I understand that my parents did the best they could with the information they had.
I think my mother was probably sexually molested as a child or something
because she was sent away from the family, things like that.
So I think my life's been pretty easy compared to theirs.
And that's what I get is not blaming anybody, walking around free, because I used to.
I was always mad at somebody because of what they had done to me.
(19:27):
Because my mom would say to me, oh, Larry, you're such a good guy.
You gave them all them diamonds and stuff and bought them that house.
That wasn't it.
I told my last ex-wife, I'm so glad you left me because you saved me, you, and my son.
And I feel that way about everybody that's ever crossed my path.
They've been a teacher to get me here to read this red book.
(19:50):
And I'm like, Rusty, there's no way I can put in words how much greatness is in that book.
Rhonda?
I think it's all about it teaches you to take responsibility and that failing is okay.
And that we can be in great relationships and still make mistakes.
(20:11):
And it's okay, too.
And I've just learned so much from the book.
Just like I said, you read this section and hear somebody talk about it.
That's something that I had maybe never thought about before even.
And it really makes you think about life as it is and not through the filters that Rhonda sees life.
(20:37):
Because to me, that's the thing is that we all have our filters from all of the people that have influenced our lives up until this point.
And I can see your perspective about something where maybe I couldn't before.
Michelle?
I think this book is powerful and I think it's really helpful to work it with a group and some people who have maybe worked through it before.
(21:01):
There's also a workbook that goes with it that's very helpful.
And but it can bring up some trauma in you and you need to have a support system that can help you,
whether it's a group setting or a sponsorship setting or whatever like that.
(21:22):
But one of the things that talking about victimhood is that it has really helped me to rephrase my story, to rewrite my story.
That's great.
So I have things that happen to me.
(21:43):
And in some ways, those are true and they are very true and very real.
And in other ways, there are things that I've told myself so long that aren't even really true at all.
And it helps me weed these two things out.
It helps me take the things that are true and gives my power back so that I'm not a victim anymore.
(22:08):
I've sponsored probably 30 women through AA and this program and different programs.
And not all of them made it, but I mean, many of them did and we're great friends and we co-sponsor now.
But I always see people come in as a sick victim and until somebody can rewrite that story, they are stuck.
(22:31):
And I don't believe they get well.
I don't believe I think if there's one thing that holds somebody back from getting well in any of these programs, it is being a victim.
Thank you.
So important.
Larry, did you have something?
Well, I did.
One of the things that jumped out to me is it has taught me conflict resolution skills.
The only way I could ever do my life from now on because I didn't have those.
(22:54):
I came from a people that didn't have those.
They couldn't give me those.
It's like saying I need a business plan.
Well, I've never seen a business plan.
Some people have had business, seen business plans.
But the conflict resolution was a godsend to me.
I'm not just talking about in my marriage.
I'm talking about business, things like that, things I wouldn't want to call them
because what they might say and how I'd say it or I'd avoid it or I'd go try to bull over it.
(23:18):
Today, I understand to be able to talk and visit.
And what I've found is most 99% of the people are that way also.
And you know what Michelle was saying?
For me, when I sit in the rooms and I do this every week, I will say to people, if you don't have a sponsor or a therapist or both,
this is probably not the place for you right now because or if you don't, you need to get one because it can bring up.
(23:45):
I mean, I've seen people just have to leave the room because it's just too intense for them.
It's just real important to have a sponsor.
I want to bring up something that I thought about a while ago and I forgot about it.
When we are talking about victims, we're not talking about children.
We are talking about adults that are in what we call a victim role.
(24:10):
Everybody's doing it to them.
It's always somebody else's fault.
You know, the biggest shame that I ever carried was, of course, on my sexual abuse that I had had.
And coming clean and opening up about that in my first, fourth, and fifth step helped me a lot.
But there again, in ACOA, and some of it may be that I was down the line long enough that I had worked through it enough
(24:39):
that when I got to ACOA, it just helped me get through another level of that shame.
But I do want to make it explicit that we're not talking about children that are harmed.
We're talking about adults and those that are in a victim role.
(25:00):
Okay.
Thank you. That's a very important clarification.
You want to speak on that a little bit?
No. I think you said it, but I agree.
Thank you.
Although I do think that there are things that are happening in our world where some people, even as adults, are being victimized.
Oh, victimized. Yes, absolutely. Thank you for that clarification. Absolutely.
(25:22):
It's happening right now.
Sex trafficking and all of that stuff that's happening to adults, too.
Big time. Well, even people that's in this war that's going on, I don't want to get into that.
But there are victims in that war. There's people that, there's nothing they can do.
They're just dying every day over there.
But I do believe that even if those atrocious things have happened to you,
(25:47):
there are programs like this that can help you get your power back and put perspective on it so that you can live an okay, happy, good life.
And get, I don't want to say get through it or get over it because you never do.
And I don't know personally about those things.
But there are coping mechanisms that are offered in these programs that can help you.
(26:12):
That's true. It's just like we've been talking about. You work programs.
I mean, I was in an abusive marriage and you find things that you start realizing it's not them.
You start going, I'm not working. I can't fix that person. I got to work on me.
And that's what ACOA is all about, too. It's saying, like we've all said, it's not my parents' fault.
(26:40):
I am the adult here. And how do I fix me from this point forward?
What I'd like to go to now, guys, is just your final thoughts on everything today.
Who wants to start? I do.
I was in an AA meeting and we all kind of evolved to the same point where we had heard the first 64 pages so many times.
(27:05):
And we said, let's try this book. And I think it was kind of God speaking to us.
And we got that book out and it evolved into a hybrid that we call Alcanon.
And it's not a sanctioned meeting. But we did have the foundation of a solid sanctioned AA meeting to catapult us into this ACOA meeting.
(27:30):
And it was very, very good that way. You know, just to go out and without any experience and just having read that book once,
I would have had a hard time starting an ACOA meeting.
So it definitely is good to look for a group that's established or an Alenon or AA meeting that's ready to evolve into it.
(27:59):
Thanks. Yes.
Well, I'd like to say like-minded people because going to AA, I found people in there, I'll use you as an example, Rusty, that were ready to move on to different lengths.
But I felt like we needed to have those people that were like-minded, could start a meeting like that.
And I'd also like to clarify Alcanon is AA, Alenon, and ACOA together, which I think is absolutely magnificent
(28:23):
because everybody in that room is looking for some kind of recovery. And what I was going to say, and I don't know, I may have just forgot,
oh, it's a codependent meeting really is what it is, how to give up codependency.
And there's interdependency, which is when you have a great relationship and you both help each other.
Then there's codependency when you're glued together.
And the codependency is the big issue in that room as far as I'm concerned and the forgiveness and having a good life.
(28:48):
Thank you.
Yeah. Like Larry said, this is a group of people that I have known for a long time.
And there is a certain level of the word intimacy has come up several times.
It's kindred spirits. It's a heart thing because you even if like I haven't met Michelle before today,
(29:14):
but I can relate to you totally because we all have experienced the same life together,
whether it's that we've actually been in the same house or whatever.
You certainly haven't, that hasn't happened, but it's been that these are people that I really love and care about.
(29:35):
And there's just that certain level of intimacy that you have with other people that you can relate so much
to what everybody's experienced together.
And even if I haven't been sexually molested or even if I didn't have parents that beat me up or any of that kind of thing,
I can still so relate to that life is just hard sometimes.
(29:58):
And these are people that love and care about me and that I love and care about.
And even if they're brand new to the program, you still can reach out to each other and really relate
and try to help each other through and recognize that we all started out thinking we were victims,
but you come to realize it's not mommy, daddy, and it's me and how do I fix me?
(30:24):
And that's why we're there. How do I fix me?
Is there anything you guys want to talk about that we haven't talked about and that you'd like to get out?
I'd just like to mention this. I think we're a bunch of truth seekers.
And if you find the truth, you can set yourself free.
And we're looking for the truth.
And I like I go three times a week because I feel like I learned something every time I go there when I open that book.
(30:49):
It just amazes me. But it's nice to hang out with truth seekers.
At this level of work, I believe that more people in the rooms are living in the solution than the drunkologues are in the problem.
And you know, you've got to tell your story.
I found as many times as you have to tell it until you don't have to tell it again.
(31:12):
But it is freeing when you don't have to tell that anymore.
Because we're rewriting our story.
Yeah, we're rewriting our story.
As you said earlier, we're rewriting our story.
Well, I know for me and for Larry, since we've known each other for so long,
39 years, and we've been in recovery together all that time.
(31:33):
Larry is not the guy that walked in the doors of AA.
And I don't think that Rusty is either.
So it's been a hell of a journey.
And it continues on.
I mean, that's the wonderful thing about it.
It continues on.
The thing that I love the very most is that every time I go to a meeting, I take away something.
(31:57):
And that means that when I do that, I go to another level of consciousness that I never had before.
So that tells me that as long as we're seeking, the universe will respond to us in like manner.
It'll give me something if I'm seeking.
(32:18):
And every time I go into ACA or AA for me, I'm always learning.
And that's the reason I've kept coming back as long as I have.
Thank you guys for being here.
It just means the world to me that we get to do this.
(33:00):
Any views, thoughts, or opinions expressed by an individual in this venue are solely that of the individual
and do not reflect the views, policies, or position of any specific recovery-based entity or organization.
Hi everyone, my name is Rusty and I'm an alcoholic.
(00:04):
And I'm Tim and I'm an alcoholic and this is Children of Chaos.
Hi, I'm Larry and I'm an alcoholic.
Hi, I'm Michelle, alcoholic, ACOA, Al-Anon, and many many other things.
And I'm Rhonda, Al-Anon, and ACOA.
Today we're going to be talking about ACOA, adult children of alcoholics.
(00:26):
And I'm really excited about this because the big red book, as we call it, of ACOA has changed my life in many many respects.
And I want to start out reading the Daily Affirmation book, Strengthening My Recovery.
Me and my wife read this every morning and we always get into some real good talks.
(00:51):
So today I wanted to focus on family disease with this affirmation.
It says, many of us have children who will possibly qualify for ACOA one day due to transferring our disease of family dysfunction to them.
We remember wondering as we were growing up why life was so bad for us and not for other kids.
(01:16):
We fantasized about how differently we would treat our children.
They would never feel like this because we'd be the best parents, the parents we always wanted.
However, most of us weren't able to fulfill that fantasy.
We wanted to act like loving parents but often found ourselves doing the opposite.
(01:40):
What was wrong with us? These were our little children.
Why couldn't we do things better? And the guilt began to plague us.
We didn't yet realize that the effects from our childhood were so ingrained in us.
No matter what we promised ourselves, no matter how sincere we were, we repeated the same behavior.
(02:04):
In ACA, we are relieved to hear others speak about the same guilt, about their inability to be the parent they wanted to be.
It's a relief to know we aren't alone.
We learned that the way to heal the relationships with our own children is to first heal ourselves by recovering from the baggage we've carried from our childhood.
(02:29):
As we do so, we begin to lift our heads and free ourselves from the guilt that is keeping us stuck.
We begin to change the way we do things.
The saying for this day is, on this day I will focus on my own recovery and heal myself first,
knowing this is how I will have the most positive impact on my loved ones.
(02:53):
That pretty much says it all for me.
Through ACA, and I'm still an active member and Alcoholics Anonymous, and I still go to my Al Anon meetings,
but ACA brought so much clarity.
I've never seen a book lay it out the way that it does in this book.
This guy gets right to the heart of it, and every page has spoken to me.
(03:18):
I want us to go around and each of us give a brief history of your recovery.
Rhonda, you want to start?
My recovery comes because I did not grow up with parents who were addicts, per se.
I didn't have that that I know of in my family history, except for that somewhere dysfunction came in.
(03:42):
I mean, I guess everybody has a dysfunctional family, right?
And so it started to show up in siblings.
I have siblings that are alcoholics, addicts, and a lot of when you read in the Adult Children of Alcoholics
Big Red Book, like Rusty was talking about, man, I see myself, even though I didn't show up with having alcoholism
(04:09):
or drug addiction, there are so many behaviors that I have that are really very alcoholic or addict-like.
And you just go, wow, where did those things come from?
Where did that come from? I don't really understand it.
But thank God for the program because it really has.
I've learned so much in the years that I've been in recovery.
(04:33):
I came into the program because I was married to an addict, an alcoholic.
And going to those meetings, I started to see myself in all of that.
And I'd come in thinking we're going to fix the person that we're there with.
And then you start recognizing, wow, I have so many of those traits myself.
(04:55):
And so then you start going, I'm not here for that person.
I'm really here for me.
And I came into the program in 99.
I've kind of been in and out of it.
I actually worked at a facility where there were addicts and alcoholics that were long-term addicts.
(05:18):
And that was a great experience for my life.
I did that for two or three years and really learned a ton there.
But again, they had had huge ramifications from their addiction.
But I still just relating to them, I could see myself so much and things that I had experienced in my life.
(05:39):
So anyway, that's why I have stayed in the program until this point.
And really one of the meetings that I attend regularly, that we use the ACOA book a lot, has just been very profound for me.
How about Michelle?
Hi, I'm Michelle.
I have 20 years of sobriety and consistently been in ACOA and AA.
(06:07):
I never want to drink anymore.
That's not my problem.
At some point, about four or five years sober, I was pretty miserable.
And I thought, I need more than this.
Where do I go?
What do I do?
And one of my groups started reading out of this big red book, which I believe is advanced coursework.
(06:29):
It is really deep and can trigger you.
So I think it's really important for a lot of people to have some sobriety, emotional sobriety, and get the plug in the jug, so to speak, for me before I got started on this, because it wouldn't have made as much sense.
(06:52):
But my first addiction was food, people pleasing and co-dependence from a very, very young age.
I have really perfectionist parents.
They're good people.
They aren't alcoholics.
Well, I mean, they're workaholics.
They're just people.
And I had extra sensitivities to things.
(07:15):
And I got off to a really bad start with them wanting me to be in kindergarten at four.
And so it was just a calamity of life.
And I have just found a lot of answers through this big red book and through the fellowship and a lot of support groups.
And I think the magic in those is the hope and the groups of people that we surround ourselves with that help me interpret all these books.
(07:47):
I think there's divine information in this book and the AA book.
It's timeless.
It's simple, but it's not easy.
Thanks, Ms. Yaffler.
I'm Larry.
I'm an alcoholic.
I started Alcoholics Anonymous 29 years, 39 years ago.
Alcoholics Anonymous actually saved my life, but it also sent me on a journey to get to where I'm at today, which is with ACA, Al Anon.
(08:14):
I came from a very dysfunctional family.
It was very violent.
My father owned nightclubs and bars, and he drank all the time.
And see, that's what I thought, is I came from a normal family.
They were normal.
That's what normal people did.
They drank and fought and fussed and come here, go away.
What I've learned in ACA, Al Anon and AA, I was a depressive.
(08:35):
What I'd do is I'd go in and out of relationships.
I'd be happy when I got in them.
And when I ran them off, if you don't leave me, I'll find somebody that will.
I was depressed again.
Then I had to find somebody else that would make me happy, because when I had her, I was happy again.
Now, the happiness didn't last long, because pretty soon I was inflicting my sickness upon that person.
(08:57):
My mother and dad, my mother was a, she was a, she triangulated my brothers and I.
And I learned all of this in ACA.
I tell you, ACA has changed my life.
It's like a Ph.D. of alcoholism and drug addiction.
Bill W. said, alcohol is but a symptom of our disease.
And this book covers those symptoms.
(09:18):
I was very fortunate when I came to Alcoxenomas.
There was a guy here named Gil Baker who was probably the happiest man I've ever met in my life.
He was as free as a bird.
And he was hilarious.
And he was always talking about that mommy daddy shit.
I figured out what that is.
It's in this red book.
And here's another thing.
While Rusty was talking while I go, he was reading that book.
(09:40):
I want to be the, I am the one that has broken the cycle of alcoholism in my family right now.
My son, they have a drink, but they don't get knee-walking drunk like I did.
He has an eating disorder, but he'll have to look at that himself.
I had an eating disorder myself.
I've tried everything to stuff to fill that hole inside me.
Today, I was thinking about this on the way over here.
(10:03):
I am free of fear and free of worry.
I have never been that way before.
I was always worried about being broke.
My mother said what saves things when I'm five years old, like we're going to starve to death.
Well, in a healthy relationship, healthy family, children feel secure and loved.
I didn't feel secure.
You can't feel secure when you're worried about starving to death.
(10:26):
And the violence that I saw around there, I was taught to lie.
Mom and dad would beat the crap out of each other.
Well, basically, he'd beat her.
Then they'd drop us off at my grandparents, and they'd say, here's where the lie comes.
When you go in there, they're going to ask you how you're doing.
Well, you're going to tell them you're fine.
So when I went in there, and my two brothers were visibly shaken, they would ask, what's going on?
(10:49):
Everything's fine.
So I learned so much out of this red book about why I acted out the way I did.
It's changed my life.
Today, I have been in a relationship for 25 years.
Before, I could never stay in one.
I have a great wife.
I have a great life.
And this book put the icing on the cake for me for my recovery.
(11:10):
I love it.
Glad to be here.
Thanks, Larry.
You know, what everybody has said already is so bountiful for me, because what ACOA has helped me do is to move past any victimization that I still carried with me.
And it also puts in there that my parents, no matter what they were doing, were doing really the best they could with the information they had.
(11:39):
And you know, and then what I noticed is I started to lighten up on myself also for my kids, because I carried a lot of guilt about my kids.
And knowing that I had done the best I could, even though it wasn't good enough for them, it wasn't probably good for what they needed.
It was the best I could do at that time.
(12:01):
So something else I want to talk about, how does ACOA speak to you where maybe AA or Al-Anon has it?
That extra stuff that you're getting, is it in the way that the guy wrote the book?
Because it's brilliant.
I happen to be a therapist, also in my own recovery, but a therapist for many years.
(12:26):
And I do family systems work.
I've read so many books on family systems.
And when I read the ACOA book, it's just like, wow.
Just the way it's written, it just brings it all forth, right?
It puts it on the table right in front of you.
So what would you say, Rhonda, where it's helped you the most in relationships with others?
(12:50):
Well, it does, like you're saying, it absolutely makes you go, wow, I am a flawed person. This is a flawed person.
But we can work it out.
It speaks very much to how to handle life, I think, on a really intense basis, though,
because in that program, we talk as a group in the meeting that I attend very deeply to each other
(13:18):
and share our real—we really spill our guts in there a lot.
And that makes you sit back and go, wow, I'm experiencing those same things, potentially,
but this is how I can handle that.
And I think that's true about that book.
It tells you kind of in detail how to live life.
(13:41):
That, to me, is the depth of it.
It really tells you how to live life.
And then in the talking with other people who you can relate to, I mean, that's the gist of all 12-step programs, right,
is how to—you can relate to other people because they can relate to you, and we can all work it out together.
(14:08):
I'm not in this by myself.
For me, AA told me that if you're an alcoholic, you're selfish, and you need to focus on other people.
And maybe that is true, but for me, I focus too much on other people,
and ACA taught me that I need to focus on myself and reparent and re-raise my inner child.
(14:37):
And so a lot of that work is me on me, and I needed that because I needed to know the balance of boundaries
and people-pleasing and perfectionism and all of these traits in life that were causing me problems once I no longer wanted to drink again.
(14:59):
And I definitely—I was a serious alcoholic.
I went to meetings off and on for 10 years, couldn't catch 30 days.
I mean, it was a real gift when I finally got sober.
But after a few years, I really was unhappy.
Where things manifested for me mostly was in my relationship with a significant other.
(15:27):
My work was fine. My friendships were fine.
My health is fine. I have all these silos that are in really good shape.
But love or connection with a significant other was really eluding me.
I thought intimacy was sex.
I did not realize how intimacy really worked and the honesty and the integrity of relationships and trusts.
(16:00):
And so, yeah, I learned a lot about that.
But that wasn't really the problem.
I'm still working that one out.
I'll have to get you the answer to that one on another episode.
That's really all I have right this second.
Okay. I love it. That's great.
Briefly, I'd just like to say that just coming in this room and sitting down with you people
(16:26):
and hearing my story over and over again, this is the bosom of the family for me.
These people are my friends.
Twelve-step programs, AA, Al-Anon, and ACA, is my spiritual life and my social life.
That's really the truth.
I don't have my sport as tennis, but these people, I get goosebumps listening to your information.
(16:51):
I know what intimacy is today, and it's not sex, and that's exactly what I thought it was.
I think one of the biggest things I've learned from all the 12-step programs,
but this book supersedes anything I've ever read in my life as far as our challenges,
is I don't have any resentment towards another human being.
I'm not mad at anybody, and I used to walk around mad at people I hadn't even met.
(17:15):
That's the way I came in here.
I came from a violent family in the rage, then getting beat as a child, I would hold that stuff in,
and then I would inflict it on somebody when they got in my way.
So I don't have that anymore.
I get to walk around free on the planet today and have fun.
I like having fun.
If this stuff wasn't fun, I wouldn't be here.
That I mean.
But I love these people, and I'm glad you invited me, Rusty.
(17:38):
Thank you, Larry.
I wanted to read this to you if I could.
This is how ACOA speaks to you.
And I want to read what I said here.
It speaks to me as no other recovery book has.
In ACOA, the focus is not on my character defect as it is in other, you know,
(18:00):
but it focuses more on my self-defeating behaviors
and not blaming my parents.
It took every bit of that away from me.
And not allowing me to not live my life as a victim.
That's the big one that had gotten to me over these years,
(18:22):
is that when we get here, we're all victims.
We don't know it.
Don't have a clue.
If you'd have said that to me in the beginning, man, I would have been PO'd.
So that's what it is for me.
Larry, why don't you start out this time?
What is the most powerful message that ACOA has given you versus other 12-step programs?
You just said it.
(18:43):
It's not having any blame for anybody.
There's nobody to blame.
Everything I did in my life up to this point was to get me here.
And I've learned more about letting go of resentments and stuff in here
because I think I held resentment with my mother for years.
Even when I went and made my amends to her for holding that resentment,
I think it was still in the back of my mind.
(19:05):
But today it's not.
I understand that my parents did the best they could with the information they had.
I think my mother was probably sexually molested as a child or something
because she was sent away from the family, things like that.
So I think my life's been pretty easy compared to theirs.
And that's what I get is not blaming anybody, walking around free, because I used to.
I was always mad at somebody because of what they had done to me.
(19:27):
Because my mom would say to me, oh, Larry, you're such a good guy.
You gave them all them diamonds and stuff and bought them that house.
That wasn't it.
I told my last ex-wife, I'm so glad you left me because you saved me, you, and my son.
And I feel that way about everybody that's ever crossed my path.
They've been a teacher to get me here to read this red book.
(19:50):
And I'm like, Rusty, there's no way I can put in words how much greatness is in that book.
Rhonda?
I think it's all about it teaches you to take responsibility and that failing is okay.
And that we can be in great relationships and still make mistakes.
(20:11):
And it's okay, too.
And I've just learned so much from the book.
Just like I said, you read this section and hear somebody talk about it.
That's something that I had maybe never thought about before even.
And it really makes you think about life as it is and not through the filters that Rhonda sees life.
(20:37):
Because to me, that's the thing is that we all have our filters from all of the people that have influenced our lives up until this point.
And I can see your perspective about something where maybe I couldn't before.
Michelle?
I think this book is powerful and I think it's really helpful to work it with a group and some people who have maybe worked through it before.
(21:01):
There's also a workbook that goes with it that's very helpful.
And but it can bring up some trauma in you and you need to have a support system that can help you,
whether it's a group setting or a sponsorship setting or whatever like that.
(21:22):
But one of the things that talking about victimhood is that it has really helped me to rephrase my story, to rewrite my story.
That's great.
So I have things that happen to me.
(21:43):
And in some ways, those are true and they are very true and very real.
And in other ways, there are things that I've told myself so long that aren't even really true at all.
And it helps me weed these two things out.
It helps me take the things that are true and gives my power back so that I'm not a victim anymore.
(22:08):
I've sponsored probably 30 women through AA and this program and different programs.
And not all of them made it, but I mean, many of them did and we're great friends and we co-sponsor now.
But I always see people come in as a sick victim and until somebody can rewrite that story, they are stuck.
(22:31):
And I don't believe they get well.
I don't believe I think if there's one thing that holds somebody back from getting well in any of these programs, it is being a victim.
Thank you.
So important.
Larry, did you have something?
Well, I did.
One of the things that jumped out to me is it has taught me conflict resolution skills.
The only way I could ever do my life from now on because I didn't have those.
(22:54):
I came from a people that didn't have those.
They couldn't give me those.
It's like saying I need a business plan.
Well, I've never seen a business plan.
Some people have had business, seen business plans.
But the conflict resolution was a godsend to me.
I'm not just talking about in my marriage.
I'm talking about business, things like that, things I wouldn't want to call them
because what they might say and how I'd say it or I'd avoid it or I'd go try to bull over it.
(23:18):
Today, I understand to be able to talk and visit.
And what I've found is most 99% of the people are that way also.
And you know what Michelle was saying?
For me, when I sit in the rooms and I do this every week, I will say to people, if you don't have a sponsor or a therapist or both,
this is probably not the place for you right now because or if you don't, you need to get one because it can bring up.
(23:45):
I mean, I've seen people just have to leave the room because it's just too intense for them.
It's just real important to have a sponsor.
I want to bring up something that I thought about a while ago and I forgot about it.
When we are talking about victims, we're not talking about children.
We are talking about adults that are in what we call a victim role.
(24:10):
Everybody's doing it to them.
It's always somebody else's fault.
You know, the biggest shame that I ever carried was, of course, on my sexual abuse that I had had.
And coming clean and opening up about that in my first, fourth, and fifth step helped me a lot.
But there again, in ACOA, and some of it may be that I was down the line long enough that I had worked through it enough
(24:39):
that when I got to ACOA, it just helped me get through another level of that shame.
But I do want to make it explicit that we're not talking about children that are harmed.
We're talking about adults and those that are in a victim role.
(25:00):
Okay.
Thank you. That's a very important clarification.
You want to speak on that a little bit?
No. I think you said it, but I agree.
Thank you.
Although I do think that there are things that are happening in our world where some people, even as adults, are being victimized.
Oh, victimized. Yes, absolutely. Thank you for that clarification. Absolutely.
(25:22):
It's happening right now.
Sex trafficking and all of that stuff that's happening to adults, too.
Big time. Well, even people that's in this war that's going on, I don't want to get into that.
But there are victims in that war. There's people that, there's nothing they can do.
They're just dying every day over there.
But I do believe that even if those atrocious things have happened to you,
(25:47):
there are programs like this that can help you get your power back and put perspective on it so that you can live an okay, happy, good life.
And get, I don't want to say get through it or get over it because you never do.
And I don't know personally about those things.
But there are coping mechanisms that are offered in these programs that can help you.
(26:12):
That's true. It's just like we've been talking about. You work programs.
I mean, I was in an abusive marriage and you find things that you start realizing it's not them.
You start going, I'm not working. I can't fix that person. I got to work on me.
And that's what ACOA is all about, too. It's saying, like we've all said, it's not my parents' fault.
(26:40):
I am the adult here. And how do I fix me from this point forward?
What I'd like to go to now, guys, is just your final thoughts on everything today.
Who wants to start? I do.
I was in an AA meeting and we all kind of evolved to the same point where we had heard the first 64 pages so many times.
(27:05):
And we said, let's try this book. And I think it was kind of God speaking to us.
And we got that book out and it evolved into a hybrid that we call Alcanon.
And it's not a sanctioned meeting. But we did have the foundation of a solid sanctioned AA meeting to catapult us into this ACOA meeting.
(27:30):
And it was very, very good that way. You know, just to go out and without any experience and just having read that book once,
I would have had a hard time starting an ACOA meeting.
So it definitely is good to look for a group that's established or an Alenon or AA meeting that's ready to evolve into it.
(27:59):
Thanks. Yes.
Well, I'd like to say like-minded people because going to AA, I found people in there, I'll use you as an example, Rusty, that were ready to move on to different lengths.
But I felt like we needed to have those people that were like-minded, could start a meeting like that.
And I'd also like to clarify Alcanon is AA, Alenon, and ACOA together, which I think is absolutely magnificent
(28:23):
because everybody in that room is looking for some kind of recovery. And what I was going to say, and I don't know, I may have just forgot,
oh, it's a codependent meeting really is what it is, how to give up codependency.
And there's interdependency, which is when you have a great relationship and you both help each other.
Then there's codependency when you're glued together.
And the codependency is the big issue in that room as far as I'm concerned and the forgiveness and having a good life.
(28:48):
Thank you.
Yeah. Like Larry said, this is a group of people that I have known for a long time.
And there is a certain level of the word intimacy has come up several times.
It's kindred spirits. It's a heart thing because you even if like I haven't met Michelle before today,
(29:14):
but I can relate to you totally because we all have experienced the same life together,
whether it's that we've actually been in the same house or whatever.
You certainly haven't, that hasn't happened, but it's been that these are people that I really love and care about.
(29:35):
And there's just that certain level of intimacy that you have with other people that you can relate so much
to what everybody's experienced together.
And even if I haven't been sexually molested or even if I didn't have parents that beat me up or any of that kind of thing,
I can still so relate to that life is just hard sometimes.
(29:58):
And these are people that love and care about me and that I love and care about.
And even if they're brand new to the program, you still can reach out to each other and really relate
and try to help each other through and recognize that we all started out thinking we were victims,
but you come to realize it's not mommy, daddy, and it's me and how do I fix me?
(30:24):
And that's why we're there. How do I fix me?
Is there anything you guys want to talk about that we haven't talked about and that you'd like to get out?
I'd just like to mention this. I think we're a bunch of truth seekers.
And if you find the truth, you can set yourself free.
And we're looking for the truth.
And I like I go three times a week because I feel like I learned something every time I go there when I open that book.
(30:49):
It just amazes me. But it's nice to hang out with truth seekers.
At this level of work, I believe that more people in the rooms are living in the solution than the drunkologues are in the problem.
And you know, you've got to tell your story.
I found as many times as you have to tell it until you don't have to tell it again.
(31:12):
But it is freeing when you don't have to tell that anymore.
Because we're rewriting our story.
Yeah, we're rewriting our story.
As you said earlier, we're rewriting our story.
Well, I know for me and for Larry, since we've known each other for so long,
39 years, and we've been in recovery together all that time.
(31:33):
Larry is not the guy that walked in the doors of AA.
And I don't think that Rusty is either.
So it's been a hell of a journey.
And it continues on.
I mean, that's the wonderful thing about it.
It continues on.
The thing that I love the very most is that every time I go to a meeting, I take away something.
(31:57):
And that means that when I do that, I go to another level of consciousness that I never had before.
So that tells me that as long as we're seeking, the universe will respond to us in like manner.
It'll give me something if I'm seeking.
(32:18):
And every time I go into ACA or AA for me, I'm always learning.
And that's the reason I've kept coming back as long as I have.
Thank you guys for being here.
It just means the world to me that we get to do this.
(33:00):
Any views, thoughts, or opinions expressed by an individual in this venue are solely that of the individual
and do not reflect the views, policies, or position of any specific recovery-based entity or organization.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.