#81 - Dr. Grant Elliott: The Truth About Back Pain, Chiropractors, & Low-Back Rehab - Choose Hard with Cody McBroom

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to the Choose Hard podcast.
In today's episode, I have Doctor Grant Elliott who blew my
mind when it comes to back pain,and I know he's gonna blow yours
too. I am so excited about this
podcast because there are so many people who suffer and
struggle with low back pain, me included.
And I've dealt with this on and off.
And this came with the perfect timing for me because we dove

(00:21):
into some hot topics that are fresh in my mind.
And after coaching thousands of people over the last 15 years,
I've had so many questions, so many concerns, and so many
clients struggling with injuriesthat go beyond my scope of
practice. But Grant is the exact person to
help that because he is not yourtypical Cairo that you just go
and get adjusted by. He is an online Cairo who is

(00:43):
helping people around the world.In fact, he has the number one
online rehab program in the world, literally.
And today you're going to find out exactly why because Grant is
going to teach you everything you need to know about low back
pain and how to address your back pain personally and
practically in your life to get out of pain, avoid surgery and
start are lifting like you normally do.
Without any further ado, let's talk to the one and only Doctor

(01:03):
Grant Elliott. The greatest things in life all
start with a challenge. The greatest things in life.
You must accept that everything is hard before it gets easy.
Every every, every, everything you want in life begins with a
hard path. Begins with a hard path, begins
with a hard pass. All right, Doctor Grant Elliott,
I'm excited to have you on, man.We have not had a back

(01:25):
specialist on the podcast like yourself, and especially not one
who is doing such amazing work with so many people around the
country in the world. I'm really excited to pick your
brain, partially because I'm going through back pain right
now. So I think this is going to be
very applicable. I've been a trainer for 15
years. I've ran this coaching business
for almost 8. We'll go into eight years next
month. And the amount of times I have

(01:45):
talked to people about back painis I can't even count.
It's it's endless, right? And most time I'm referring out,
but I do think there's there's so many different reasons people
get back pain. There's so many different types
of back pain. There's so many limitations that
are varying. And it can be such a confusing
and complex topic and it can be very scary for some people.
And based on what I've kind of read up on your content, it

(02:07):
doesn't have to be so scary halfthe time.
So I'm excited to talk to you and really provide that value
for our listeners. But before we get into these
questions, can you just give us in a nutshell, who is Grant
Elliott? Oh man, I'm a hard working guy
from the Midwest. Grew up in Indiana.
New new wrestling and mowing lawns.

(02:29):
That's that's my background. Knew I wanted to go into
healthcare at a relatively earlyage.
Hurt my own back cycling. I was a competitive cyclist and
I was getting scholarship opportunities.
Started getting back pain myself.
Found myself seeing what I know now is a traditional old school
chiropractor that hey, your spine's crooked on this X-ray,

(02:51):
we need to see you 3 * a week forever and I'm going to provide
you no rehabilitative care at all.
OK, well nothing changed my situation.
So I quit racing and I was like,I don't know what to do.
Got to the gym, met a different chiropractor who is movement
based, rehab focused. I saw a completely different
approach to healthcare and I waslike, all right, that's what I

(03:12):
need to do. I need to become one of the good
guys so I can help prevent my story from happening again.
So I became a chiropractor, just100% focused on movement and
rehabilitation. Began building a social media
halfway through school. I was like, I got to do
something on social media when Igraduate and create a business.
Well, actually at the time I didn't think I was going to open

(03:33):
a business. That's a different story, but I
was like, I got to post something and then I became in
love with the growth of media. I didn't think there was any way
for me to turn it into a business or to do anything.
But I just like doing. I just like growing.
I like growth to any capacity. So started posting once a week,
started posting twice a week, and then I listened to a podcast
and I was like, if you want to grow your social media, post

(03:54):
everyday. And I went, all right, I'll post
everyday. So I did that for a year, gained
100,000 followers before I graduated, and then that
launched me my first year to eventually building the number
one online low back specific rehab program in the world as it
stands, at least at this moment,and helped me build a team and
and help people all over the world, which is incredibly

(04:16):
satisfying. Every week we have calls in New
Zealand, Australia, Saudi Arabia, Taiwan, all over.
We're getting on calls with people and helping people where
they can't find solutions in their area because they're
limited, so they have the ability to get the right
information anywhere in the world.
And it's my passion to do this. It's my passion to practice what

(04:38):
I preach. I'm highly into into fitness and
nutrition, and I've been bodybuilding since I was 16
years old. I was grilling chicken at night,
bringing in Tupperware as a highschooler, and everyone looking
at me weird but me looking different than everybody else.
So you know who is weird? And yeah, I guess that's a blitz

(04:59):
of of who I am. I love it, man.
It, you know, it speaks to myself and a lot of the
listeners because I don't care what anybody says.
There's something about practicing what you preach and
looking the part. And I've said this countless
times as a coach, it's like if you're a trainer, you need to
look like a trainer. But that's not typically the
case with chiropractors because nobody ever calls them out and

(05:20):
says that. But as somebody who primarily
only goes to PT or chiropractorsto help me continue lifting
because that's the only real reason outside of like I've had
knee surgery in the back in the day, of course, for so for rehab
purposes. But otherwise I want to just
optimize my body and keep lifting.
So being able to do that with a chiro that's also jacked and
performs well in the gym, it's ano brainer, you know?

(05:42):
100% majority of healthcare providers don't look the best.
Now, generally speaking, you will find usually more cars and
PTS that are more health focused, more movement focus.
You're going to get more of those in that area, but that
doesn't mean they're really focused on the same goals.
And now here's where I'll bring in a relationship where I'll

(06:04):
say, hey, really, who should yoube seeing for these types of
issues, for back issues, for movement issues, For those of
you who are focused on the gym, who want to be able to stay in
the gym and perform, here's an analogy I provide.
If I had an eye problem, I wouldnot go to a dentist.
They work with teeth. I got an eye issue.
OK, Now if you have a movement problem, if you have a lifting

(06:30):
problem, you have pain with lifting, pain with movement,
then you need to see someone whounderstands movement, who
understands lifting, who understands mechanics.
So if you are seeing any provider, general provider,
Cairo PT, and they don't lift themselves, they don't

(06:51):
understand mechanics, they don'tknow lifting, they don't know
movement. And that's the equivalent of
going to a dentist with an eye issue.
You got to see someone who actually is doing the thing that
you want to do, knows how to do the thing that you want to do.
That's what makes a good coach in any particular scenario.
So the joke I make is, does yourdoctor even lift?

(07:14):
If the answer is no, but your goal is lifting, I've probably
seen the wrong person. Yeah, 100%, man.
So what made you so passionate about, you know, because as I
was reading up on you, I see a lot about preventing surgery,
which I think is an amazing thing, obviously.
But what made you so passionate about that?
Was there an aha moment? Did somebody you saw tell you

(07:37):
you needed to have surgery and then you didn't end up having
surgery yourself? Or were you, was there a certain
client that you can remember that you helped avoid surgery?
And then it was like an aha moment?
Because I think that especially in the context of thinking about
the Cairo or the PT or the physical, there is the people
that look the part. They do the thing and they want
to help you keep doing the thingversus the surgeon or the Doctor

(07:58):
Who doesn't do the thing and goes to the fast, quick, easy.
Maybe I don't know the semanticsof this, but money maker for
them or whatever, they go right to the surgery route because
that's what they can control. It's what they can do.
That's what they can sign you upfor rather than referring you
out to somebody like yourself, which is why content is such a
beautiful thing because you're able to get out there so people
can find you on their own because that's probably the only
way they're going to find this right path.

(08:20):
But long winded way of me askingjust really like what made you
so into trying to avoid surgery for people?
Yeah. So there's going to be some
personal stories that go along with it, which I'll share right
now. But also there's just the pure
conviction and the right way to do something.
So it's the same reason why you would be so convicted in getting
anyone to get off the couch and move and to be healthier because

(08:43):
you know what that will do for their career, for their family,
for their confidence. It bleeds into so many other
things. So you are so convicted in the
right approach to life within that context.
Same thing here. The reality is that so many
surgeries can be avoided. They are over performed in the

(09:03):
masses. And to give you actual hard
data, there's a massive study done in 2020. 280,000 people, so
not a low sample size. 280,000 people with lumbar disc
herniations. Guess what percentage were able
to recover without surgery? I'm not going to guess because I
know I think I read it from yourthing. 97%.

(09:26):
Wild. 97% But guess what? The number one reason for people
undergoing low back surgery is disc herniations.
It's completely flipped. It's it is completely flipped,
Cody. And so that's what drives me
nuts is there's this thing that is 97% of the time, not my

(09:49):
opinion. This is science.
OK, 97% of the time can be avoided, but easily, easily 80
plus percentage of people who have a discrimination that have
pain that go to see a common because there are good
individuals in every industry, the common ortho, the common
neuro, they're being pushed to surgery and it's avoidable.

(10:09):
It increases complications. The more surgeries you have, the
higher the likelihood you have of chronic pain, of
complications that will not go away for many different reasons.
That's a that's a larger rabbit hole that we might find
ourselves in. And So what I know is I know the
data. I know what can happen when
people get pushed down the wrongpaths from the jump because

(10:30):
their first piece of informationusually dictates where they end
up. And that's the scary part.
If their first message is fear, Oh my gosh, you hurt your back.
That's not recoverable. Oh my gosh, it's a disc.
Oh my gosh, you need surgery versus hey, you hurt your back.
Well, you know what, 80% of the world were experienced low back
pain at some point. It's normal and it's highly

(10:50):
recoverable. You're going to be OK.
Hey, you're imaging. You know what?
Totally expected findings. Nothing to be afraid of.
Your situation is highly recoverable.
Here's what we're going to do XYZ to get you back a completely
different direction. So one is, I know the reality
and I know what people can do and I know what people can

(11:11):
avoid. And I want to help people avoid
that because it's, it's, it's a travesty just seeing people push
the wrong direction over and over and over.
It'd be like for you, if you're like, hey, there's this crazy
concept that you can lose weightby eating less, but then 80% of
people who are overweight are getting, you know, bypass
surgery. Like, you know, whatever, like

(11:31):
whatever the, the, the new thingis these days, like it, it
would, it would, it would make your skin crawl.
And that's what it does to me now.
In addition, earlier on in my career, there's a few key
stories and I'll just provide one is his names are Aminio.
He's amazing. He's in South Florida.
He sent his wife to us just a bit ago.
He was one of my first clients and I met with him over Zoom and

(11:55):
I took him through an assessment.
He had sciatica raiding down to his foot, his leg was on fire.
He's in the military. He'd been going through the VA
for the last like 6 to 9 months.He had seen 2 Kairos, 2 PTS in
there, done an injection, was going to get an ablation and he
was scheduled for surgery on hiship.
Well wait, everything I just said was low back related.

(12:17):
Why was he scheduled for surgeryon his on his hip?
It's because he was in the traditional biomedical model.
He had pain radiating through his hip.
So from his glute down his leg, they did, oh, you know, you have
pain on your hip. Let's just take an image so it
can tell us what the problem is,which is not an appropriate way
to manage these cases. So they did a hip, a hip MRI.

(12:38):
They saw a torn labrum. Oh, that's the reason for your
pain. Oh, my gosh.
Yeah. So the low back pain, the nerve
pain rating down to the foot. That's a labrum.
OK, That's a joke. So they had him scheduled for a
labrum surgery two weeks after Imet with him.
And so on the call, I was like, do you think this is your hip?

(12:59):
He was like, I don't know. I mean, the pain shooting down
my foot. I was like, yeah, well, you know
what nerve goes all the way downto your foot, your sciatic
nerve, and your leg feels like fire.
Labrum doesn't cause fire pain, nerve does.
We achieved 30% improvement in the one call.
Within two weeks, his pain was reduced 40% average.

(13:21):
He cancelled the labrum surgery because that was an
inappropriate surgery. That would have been a surgery
on an area that was not causing his pain.
So he would have had the surgery, he would have woken up
and he would have felt 100% the exact same because that wasn't
the problem. So we go through this process,
he gets 100% pain free within six months and he goes, yeah,

(13:41):
Grant, not only did you help me avoid a surgery that would have
done nothing, it was a completely inappropriate surgery
because he was incorrectly diagnosed.
But then I helped to avoid a second surgery, which would have
been on the lower back. And and I helped to get back to
competing in CrossFit, which hasbeen doing so for the last five
years without a single issue. And if you can do that, I mean,
you have to be out of back pain like 'cause that is no joke.

(14:06):
And it's a very ballistic movement.
You know, there's no all right control, slow, grab the bar, get
in a good position. It's like you're time, you're
going, you know, So that's man, that's impressive.
You know, I, I have, I have a couple questions that I think
are going to provide a lot of context to, to really like kind
of hammer this point home for people, hopefully and myself,

(14:26):
because I'm curious about these.But I also want to ask this
because I'm not sure about this.And I don't want to say this and
it be taken by any listeners thewrong way because I don't know
this to be fact about doctors, but you're talking about these,
this 97% study and things like that are what allow me to, as
your point, be convicted of something.

(14:46):
Even the, you know, the different types of surgery.
There's, there's studies that show a correlation of increased
likelihood of suicide when people have these weight loss
surgeries because they're removing their vice, which is
not a good thing. But they have this tool they use
to deal with emotions, food. That's why they're overweight.
And when they shrink their stomach with a band, guess what?
They can't turn to the one thingthat they think helps their

(15:07):
emotions. They don't know how to deal and
cope with those emotions. That's a bad thing, right?
But when I learned that, it mademe so much more passionate about
doing this the right way, which is probably exactly why you're
so passionate about why you do things the way you do.
And so my question is, do doctors have to, once they get

(15:27):
to a certain point? And maybe you know this, maybe
you don't, but I'm curious, do they have any type of
regulations around continuing their education or once they get
to their degree, whenever that is, are they good 'cause I'm
just thinking if somebody graduated 20 years ago from
college and they no longer have to continue their education, how
many studies have came out sincethen that could change the way

(15:50):
they think and operate and and does that lead to any of these
issues we see today? Yeah.
So CES or CE US sorry are required in in any profession,
any doctorate level, you have toget a certain a certain number
of CE us every period and the periods can be different based
on the profession. So on paper, the answer would

(16:10):
be, yeah, we need to stay up to date.
But the problem is, tell me how many of these programs and
courses that provide continuing education are of significant
value. Well, unfortunately, the people
who are providing significant value and really good courses,
they're not providing courses that are going to be mandated

(16:32):
and controlled by the governing bodies.
It's it like it's the same thingas saying, hey, the best
doctors, they're not going to work with insurance.
It's the same thing. So the courses that are
provided, I mean, sometimes these can be as simple as just
little basic online courses where you need to watch a couple
hours of videos. And it's well known that people
will just click the play button,go work for a couple hours, come

(16:53):
back and then Google the answersto the questions because they
didn't want to watch the video. And then then they get their
CES. That's that's a common approach.
So what will determine if someone maintains the ability to
be the best provider they can beis not keeping up with their
continued education. It's their own independence and
drive to actually be good. And that that also includes a

(17:14):
provider's first year. Like when I was in school, all
of my education came from thingsI did outside of the classroom.
All of it my, my very first trimester, I think I did three
additional seminars each seminars reach around 3 to
$500.00. So you know, most people you
think are right out of college, they're broke, they have no
money. And I had no problem spending
extra 15 grand my very first trimester And everyone was like,

(17:37):
sorry, not 15 grand 1500. That's what I pay now to get
better. They're like, what are you, Why
are you spending money on courses like you're, you're a,
you're a first year student, like you don't know anything
yet. And my mentality from the very
beginning was like, because I want to be the best, like I'm
going to, I'm going to learn now.
Like, what are you waiting for? And so all the additional

(18:00):
courses and, and shadowing opportunities and traveling to
learn from people who are I knewwere the best.
Like that's what I use. I don't use anything that school
taught me, like at all. So if you have that mentality,
then as you're out in practice, you're not going to be learning
anything from the CES. In fact, you, you should learn
very little from the seas. You should be keeping up to date

(18:20):
with the current evidence, current research.
You should have a, a, a, a groupof individuals who want to be
the best and, and grow together.That should be the environment.
But the reality is within any industry, this could be real
estate agents, this could be barbers, whatever.
I mean, that's like 1% of people, yeah.
Yeah, it's for everybody listening who is in this

(18:41):
industry or any other. It's such good advice 'cause it
man. Like, that makes me think back
to when I was in school. I interned at a hospital, in the
gym, and then I interned at a strength and conditioning
facility. And then I worked for free for
him. And then once I got a job, I got
a credit card so that I could pay to travel with him to
seminars and go learn. And like, it put me in debt at

(19:02):
first, but I was like, I don't have money.
So I'm going to do whatever I can because I learned so much of
what I know today from being around really, really good, well
known coaches and traveling and experiencing different gym
cultures and stuff like that. Not, not that I didn't learn
anything in school, but to your point, that's where some of it,
so much of it came from. So that's that's golden advice.

(19:24):
I want to circle back to this percentage because I still have
a couple questions on that too. You kind of alluded to some of
these answers with that. I, I can't remember his name,
but your example client, just how long it took him.
But my 2 questions around this is number one are disc
herniations. Is that the most common back
injury you think that you see orthat is out there or just the

(19:46):
most common that people get surgery from?
And then what's the length that you see on average?
Because obviously it's going to vary for rehab just to paint the
picture because we know how you got to schedule surgery and then
you got to do nothing until surgery.
And then once you do surgery, you got to recover and then you
got to rehab. So I just want people to be able
to compare, OK, going this routeinstead of surgery takes X
amount of time. Going the surgery route takes X

(20:07):
amount of time and I got to imagine it's probably not much
different. If anything it's faster to go
the non surgical route I would assume.
Yeah, typically it is. So to to pull that apart, your
primary question is timeline or was there an additional question
prior to that? I thought you had two, I would
say. Timeline, but then also is this
the most common injury? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(20:28):
Yeah, that's right. That's right.
So OK, let's here's the best breakdown for listeners to
understand this is really, really important.
Let's look at 100% of low back issues.
OK, We're looking at 100% right now. 90% of all low back pain is
in the category of non specific low back pain.
What does that mean? It means it can't be traced back

(20:49):
to 1 singular source because there will be there will be
primary components of that pain.And I'll get into this just a
moment, but 90% of low back paincannot be traced to 1 singular
reason or one singular cause forlow back pain.
And it's typically a combinationof disc pain, muscle pain, and
joint pain with influences from the biopsychosocial model,

(21:12):
influences of beliefs with pain,past pain experience, education,
even socio economic status, nutrition, lifestyle, mental
stay, emotional stress, work stress.
All of these things play a part in someone's pain experience.
And the pain experience is very,very important.

(21:32):
So one part of your pain is a biological component.
There's a tissue that is harmed.There is a nerve being
compressed. That's a biological component.
But to help paint this picture, someone hurting a disc on their
best day in the in the world, it's not going to cause that
much pain. Someone hurting a disc on their
worst day ever, that's going to cause a lot.

(21:54):
So these experiences drasticallyinfluence this.
So 90% of low back pain, nonspecific low back pain and
nonspecific low back pain can recover vast majority of the
time. We know 97% of the time without
drugs, injection, surgery. The other 10% are going to be
specific instances. So what would be specific?
This could be like a common one.We just had this the other day,

(22:15):
kidney referral. So hey, that is a specific
cause, specific 'cause this individual actually had kidney
cancer, kidney cancer referring to their lower back.
We were part of the diagnostic process.
So that's a specific cause. So what I'm saying is 90% of the
time you guys are going to be fine.
That's what that means. 90% timeyou guys are going to be OK.

(22:36):
Disc carnation specifically, easily one of the most common
reasons for eliciting pain. But at the same time, I would be
remiss to not include this. Just because a disc herniation
or bulge might be evident on an image does not automatically
mean that's the thing that that can be causing the pain.
And that's why we include the psychosocial component to it.

(22:59):
So I'm going to get back to the timelines here, but this stuff
is important. So an example is low back flare
ups throughout the human experience.
Once again, is common and and itis avoidable to some
circumstances, but it's common and and normal.
Just because you have some back pain doesn't mean you're broken,
doesn't mean you automatically damaged something.

(23:20):
There are many influences and one that we trace back to a lot
in certain circumstances is let's say there's a particular
week where someone's way more stressed with work, Therefore
they're eating worse, they're getting worse sleep.
And so stress and anxiety sleep,all these things are trash.
And then let's say they're passionate about the gym and
they're like, OK, I'm going to go crush the gym now to, you

(23:41):
know, release all this, which trust, which trust me, I'm on
that same wavelength. OK, I like, I want to deadlift
myself into the dirt. Like I get that.
But in that scenario, your capacity is very low.
So then you overload your, your load of management.
You overloaded your load, your load of management.
So in that scenario, all you need to do is de stress,

(24:03):
increase sleep, improve nutrition and and deload.
That's all you need to do and you'll be fine.
But in that scenario, what will happen is people will experience
a flare up, a common flare up, anon threatening flare up.
They'll go to a general providerthat doesn't understand all of
these things I'm talking about or a chow or PT that doesn't
understand all these things I'm talking about.

(24:25):
The first step is a 2 minute conversation.
And yet let's go write you an imaging script.
So then they go and get an imageand then it comes right back
with disc bulge or disc herniation.
So then they blame that evidenceon their experience of pain when
in reality that wasn't what caused their pain.
That disc bulge or herniation could have been there the last
multiple years and never caused a single problem.

(24:47):
Because the evidence also shows that 50% of individuals who
don't have any pain have a disc bulge on imaging, 50%.
So This is why we need appropriate management.
Because in that scenario, if I talk to that person, hey, I just
hurt my back, OK, what's going on in your life?

(25:08):
Tell me what's going on. History taking and analysis
should take time, should not be a 2510 minute conversation.
It needs to be in depth. In that scenario, I go, hey,
listen, here's what you did. Here's the scenario.
You're going to be OK, deload, get back to me in a week.
Like no big deal. But if they see the wrong
individual, MRI, herniation, surgery, Oh my gosh.

(25:31):
And all this fear unravels. And that's how people get sucked
into the wrong path of care every single day.
So I needed to include those things when explaining the
spectrum of what causes back pain.
What's the most common in the origin of this now when it comes
to timeline? OK, Grant, sweet.
I'm listening to this podcast. I'm feeling more confident.

(25:51):
You're making me, you know, feelless fragile.
Fantastic. What's the timeline?
So once again, going back to evidence here and then I'll use
our personal program and, and and stats.
The evidence is very encouragingthat even individuals that don't
seek conservative care, that don't get rehab if they let the

(26:11):
body do its thing, vast majorityof individuals with with
discarnations can still recover within 9 to 12 months.
Now that's a slow timeline. Some people hear that and
they're like, Oh my gosh, man, like I can barely move, bro.
Like I'm calling to the bathroom.
You're telling me 9 to 12 months.
Like I don't know, like that's making me want to jump to
surgery. And I would understand in that

(26:31):
context, but that's with doing nothing.
That's not taking action, that'snot taking accountability,
that's not having a good mindset.
That's just living like you've still really high chances of
fully recovering within 9 to 12 months.
Now what does it change to if you do something, if you take
action for it? Here's what we've seen and this

(26:52):
isn't my claim. No, no one join our program and
say that this is my claim. OK.
We have helped individuals with discriminations with sciatica
radiating all the way down to their foot in some
circumstances. We've helped people get 100%
pain free within 15 days. It is only that is only happened
a few times. That's why it's an extreme

(27:13):
example, but I'm providing extreme example so I can give
you give you both sides. So yeah, some scenarios
completely pain free within, yeah, literally 2 to 3 weeks.
That's not common. What is common is helping people
get completely, if not mostly pain free within three months.
That is very common. Within three months, majority of

(27:35):
your function is returned, majority of your pain is gone
typically by 6 months and that'sthe duration of our program.
The first three months focuses on what's causing the pain, the
disc, the nerve, the joint, whatever it might be.
So first three months gets them pain free.
The second three months we focuson bulletproofing.
So we're getting them back into the gym.
So before our program is over, our clients are squatting,
they're dead lifting, they're lunging, they're doing force

(27:58):
absorption movements like they're moving athletically.
Again, we're getting them all tothese things.
So by 6 months they're usually pain free, strong, confident in
the gym again, no, we compare that to surgery.
OK, here's here's the opposite, right?
So if I am of the belief that I can't recover, I don't take
action OK, well, I'm not changing until my surgery date,

(28:21):
then I get the surgery. Usually individuals cannot start
rehab for eight weeks. That's usually what they're told
8 to 10 weeks post surgery. So two months of sitting around,
you know, usually on pain medication to some capacity,
then you begin the rebuild process.
So then you need like another three to six months after that
of rebuilding, if you even have a good plan, if you have a good

(28:43):
plan, so that that timeline isn't isn't great and you still
have to do rehab anyway. So why not just try to do it in
the first place to avoid the situation entirely, Yeah.
I was going to say like, you know, as somebody who's had knee
surgery, not back surgery, knee surgery twice even that on a

(29:03):
meniscus that took me longer, you know, at the time, I mean
it's been the last one was in 2019.
So things have improved, obviously, but I, I don't for me
personally, like I would much rather avoid at all costs.
And I think most people are in that situation.
And three to six months sounds amazing.
To be honest. I don't think that sounds wild
at all. I'm curious.

(29:24):
There's obviously a lot of different reasons why somebody
can start having back pain. And the IT depends answer could
lead into three hours of podcasting, obviously, but we're
trying to boil it down. I'm just thinking like, OK,
let's say this person is they'reon top of the most of those
factors. I would say stress is one of
those ones that everybody can say I'm good, probably not.

(29:45):
Or it goes up and down. You know, there's always kind of
stress and there's even people who can handle stress well.
But according to research, sometimes there's things that
happen internally that it doesn't matter if you perceive
the stress as something you can deal with, it can still
negatively impact you. So when we consider the movement
aspect that could be causing some back pain in the past, I've
heard, I've heard many people speak on this and there's a lot

(30:06):
of differing opinions. And I've also heard, and you can
correct me if this is completelyoff, but I've heard people talk
about almost like a movement dysfunction or intolerance,
whether that's rotation or flexion or extension.
And maybe that's where it's stemming from.
But I'm curious what people can really try to like after
listening to this go, OK, let melet me test a few of these
things. Am I incapable of doing

(30:27):
something from a movement perspective that could be
causing some of the pain that I experience?
Are these flare ups that happen?Yeah.
For sure. So we're going to focus now on
this conversation purely on movements.
What are movements that can be causing your pain?
What are movements that can reduce your pain?
You're absolutely correct. The stress, mindsets,
psychosocial components, that's huge and very important.

(30:48):
But yeah, that that could be a 10 hour podcast.
Absolutely. So within the spectrum, if you
talk to thousands and thousands and thousands of people with low
back pain like we have, the mostcommon symptoms individuals will
deal with will be increased pain, sitting long periods,
increased pain, bending forward.This could be bending forward to

(31:09):
pick something off the ground orbending over to do dishes or
laundry, bending motions, brushing teeth.
That's actually a common one too.
Bending over to put socks and shoes on.
Yep. And then also, if you have been
sitting for a long time and you're like, oh, man, like I'm
really starting to feel tight, you go to stand up.
You look 80 years old standing up.
It takes you a few seconds to get up straight.

(31:30):
It's like a rusty hinge. Yeah.
So what is this describing? This is the most common
spectrum, and this is a flexion intolerant condition.
Flexion intolerant? What does that mean?
Flexion is bending forward, flexion of the spine, rounding
forward intolerant. Pretty self-explanatory.
Does not like it. So this classification will be

(31:52):
exacerbated by more flexion. So essentially what your body is
telling you is, hey, we're getting too much of this, too
much this direction, too much ofthis stress.
OK, so if there is someone who'sflexion intolerant, what should
they not be doing? They should be reducing their

(32:12):
sitting. They should be reducing their
bending motions. They should not be doing a bunch
of crunches, a bunch of leg raises, a bunch of toes to bar,
a bunch of hamstring stretches to try to loosen up those
hamstrings to take pressure off the back.
That's a myth. These are all flexion based
movements that are giving your back more of what it doesn't
like. It's more of what it doesn't

(32:33):
like and you're going to keep yourself stuck.
And a lot of people find themselves in this situation.
My PT told me to stretch my hamstrings and I'm still in pain
six months later. Whoa, it's a shocker.
So what should we do then? Simple concept of do the
opposite. Whatever your spine is getting
the most of, do the opposite. And this can apply to your neck,

(32:58):
this can apply to your shoulders, this can apply to
your hips. Think about the position that
your body, your muscles and yourjoints are in the most and
think, how can I counterbalance the position my body's in the
mode in the most and you do the opposite.
So I'm going to relate it to thelow back in just a moment, but
most of us are forward. So our, our arms are forward,

(33:18):
our shoulders are in flexion. So they're in front of us typing
on computers, doing things that involve reaching forward.
What I would do for the shoulderis just imagine I, I make my
arms straight and I just pull myarms straight back into
extension. This is not a motion we're
getting throughout the day on our shoulders.
And guess what can actually recover a ton of shoulder issues
and range loading into extension.

(33:40):
Like sometimes it's that easy. So now for the back, all right,
Like, hey Grant, like my job requires sitting.
Like I got to sit in the car. Like, you know, I got to sit in
these moments. I understand.
Take breaks and do the opposite,which would be extension.
So what are some simple extension movements that you can
begin implementing today? Lay on the floor that takes

(34:00):
gravity off of your spine, laying flat gravity off your
spine. Put your hands onto your chest
like you're going to do a push up and push your chest up off
the ground while keeping your hips on the floor.
This is going to resemble a classic cobra pose like in yoga
where you're beginning to restore that extension.
Don't hold it. You will be told that by yoga
instructors. You will be told that from
providers who don't understand disk mechanics.

(34:21):
Don't hold it. Do it repetitively, up, down,
up, down, up, down, slowly working further over time.
Because joints and discs like repetitive load, not static
load. They're like repetitive load
because our body loves movement.So that's how you can begin
restoring extension. Hey, I'm still stuck in my chair

(34:43):
for 8 hours a day. That's OK.
I don't care about the position you need to be in.
I care about the number of breaks you take getting out of
it. So even if once an hour, if you
can hop on the floor, bust out five of those, the difference
that that can make in your life is immense, is absolutely
immense. So if you feel some of the

(35:05):
symptoms I described earlier, you need to be doing extension
based movements because it will reverse the stress.
Once again, my body is getting too much this direction.
Let's do the opposite, to bring it back to the middle to reverse
that stress. And I think we can apply it to
each area. Obviously if you're getting too
much extension, maybe Triflexion, I would say most

(35:27):
people probably aren't getting too much extension.
I can't imagine nowadays these are going to be.
Unique scenarios. So there are scenarios that do
exist. 1 is like painters. We do get some painters who are
painting a bunch of ceilings, painting a bunch of walls and
they're standing slightly leaning back a majority of the
day. So you're right, if through
movement testing, now we're we're painting with some broad
strokes here, not too broad, butif through movement testing, we

(35:50):
can clearly see, yeah, this person's extension intolerant,
when we test flexion, their symptoms improve.
OK, you need flexion. We would then implement the
opposite. Hey, lay on your back, bring
your knees to your chest, rock them in and out, repetitively
loading the lumbar spine into flexion.
This presentation can also be more common in individuals who

(36:13):
are above the age of 65 when they start to develop something
called stenosis. Now this is also something
that's misunderstood. People like to immediately
diagnose and label people based on imaging and then form their
entire treatment plan based on apicture, which drives me insane.
So this does not apply to every scenario.
Definitely not every scenario, but more likely someone's above

(36:35):
the age of 65. They tend to have more extension
and tolerance scenarios where wewould want to implement flexion.
These are the typical presentations, yes, got it.
I'm curious and, and by the way,I just, I love that you're able
to break this down the way you are and just clearly stayed over
and over again. There's not, it's not a

(36:56):
one-size-fits-all. I mean, I, I don't know how much
you follow the different like just strength.
And I love this guy 'cause he's just a legend.
But Louis Simmons, I remember when he had a back issue and it
was like reverse hyper. And then everybody.
'S like you have to do reverse hypers and then I remember
listening to a Joe Rogan podcastand Joe Rogan bought a reverse

(37:16):
hyper and did it and it helped his little back and I was like
Oh no don't say that because noweverybody's going to go get or
do reverse hypers and that can make it way worse if that's not
what you need to do. So it's good.
And one of the things that I just want to bring up, I think I
know the answer to this, but I don't know if the non trainer or
listener might with regards to rotation intolerance, some

(37:39):
people will be like, well, am I intolerant to rotating to the
left and I need to rotate to theright?
And I would assume it's like, hey, let's do some anti rotation
movements. But I'd also be curious if
there's more to it than just that because even doing an anti
rotation sometimes can cause people to do rotation if they're
not strong in that pattern, right?
So how are we trying to obviously not the whole picture,

(38:00):
but how are we trying to treat aa rotation issue with somebody?
Yeah, sure. Having a presentation where
repetitive loading rotation to the opposite way to restore the
condition is a is a rare scenario.
So having pain with rotation, not a rare scenario, but rare
scenario where hey, rotating to the left, let's rotate to the
right. Most of the time sensitive discs

(38:23):
that are flexion intolerant willbe sensitive with rotation.
So even if that person is like, hey, you know what, like I can
bend over decent. Like I don't feel terrible, you
know, sitting long periods like it's really just rotating this
still, the first place we would check is for flexion
intolerance. So we would still implement an
extension based protocol. Once again, there's many
different directions. I'm just keeping it broad.

(38:44):
We might still implement extension based protocol.
OK, now let's recheck your rotation.
And let's just say they do 10/20/30 cobras and then they
recheck rotation. They go, hey, my rotations like
I can go like 30% further until I feel the pain.
OK, that's not a rotation intolerance.
That's still that's still a flexion intolerance.
We're removing the movement obstruction and in your in your,

(39:06):
you know, restoring the, the motion that you need.
Oh gosh. What was the second component of
your question Anti? Rotation is that?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so now, OK, so now in the
grand spectrum. OK, so here's what we would do
for that person. Let's say we identify, hey, you
have a sensitive disk. Some sensitive disks are
sensitive to rotation. OK, great.
We need to load the disk into extension.

(39:27):
Let's reverse the disk. Let's get it back where we want
it to be. OK, now before we restore
extension movements, yes, anti rotation is a phenomenal place
to begin prior to then loading the rotation itself.
So it's the concept of like if I'm trying to recover an injury,
like do isometrics before like full concepts are key centric.
That's like a simple example is,hey, let me just get the muscle

(39:49):
used to loading this before I take it through a full range.
So this scenario would be, hey, you know, hurts to rotate.
See the long periods hurts and Igot some pain ring down the leg.
OK, I'm making this extremely cookie cutter everybody.
This is not the dynamic of the program, but we might do.
All right, let's focus on cobras.
Let's focus on other extension based movements.
Great symptoms going down. OK, Now let's focus on just

(40:11):
stability of your core in general.
OK, build stability of your corein general.
So this could be belly breathing, daphragmatic
breathing, dead bugs, bracing work just to learn how to
actually create intra abdominal pressure to stabilize because we
know eventually we're going to get them to squatting and
deadlifting. So we want to root this as their
foundation. OK, great.
We have fundamental stability. Now let's implement fundamental

(40:32):
stability with anti rotation. So now it's brace and pal off
press brace and single arm plank.
That's why we don't jump straight to that.
We want them to be able to do that movement with proper intra
abdominal pressure. So then it relates to their
other performance and they can translate it to other
activities. So do that first.
OK, great. Pal off single leg plank, single

(40:54):
arm plank single leg bears buildanti rotation.
Now we ensure that their range of motion is completely pain
free and end range rotation. OK great.
Now we start loading rotation. So perhaps I'm loading let's
just say 20 lbs to 45°. I do that for a week.
OK, great. Symptoms don't increase.

(41:14):
All right, 40 pounds 45° Sixty pounds 45° OK, now 30 lbs full
rotation. 50 lbs full rotation. 70 lbs.
Full rotation. It's just an example of
progressively overloading that tissue to then restore both the
body's physiological capabilities of that motion, but
also the mind and the nervous system sensitivity to that

(41:36):
memorized pattern too. And that would be the approach.
Got it. The nervous system was something
I wanted to ask about and kind of touch on as well.
When I'm thinking of like flare ups, for example, even in my own
case, I can think of situations where looking back, it's like I
don't even know. Like I was trying to do things

(41:57):
to fix the issue and I'm like, did I actually fix the issue or
did my nervous system kind of just release tension?
I took a break from the gym, deloaded, did what I need to do.
And some stuff, yes, like movement and mobility and things
might have helped. But I'm curious if the nervous
system has anything to do with this tense feeling or the
stiffening or this tightening ofmuscles that might be

(42:18):
restricting your movement. Because sometimes when people
have a flare up, it's almost like everything is just so tight
and then it releases and it's like, OK, but now flexion,
extension, whatever the issues doesn't hurt at all.
I think it's gone. And then all of a sudden it
flares up again. What role does the nervous
system have in this, like on offswitch of this, this flare up,
if that makes sense. Yeah.

(42:38):
So much so much. Your nervous system is your pain
experience in in many aspects. So your nervous system can
memorize pain and it can be oversensitized through multiple
variables. That's there's an amazing video
for everyone watching YouTube. It's called tame the beast.

(42:59):
Tame the beast. It's about AI think 5-6 minute
educational video. We actually have it plugged in
to the first like chapters and first week in our actual program
'cause it's an easy but very digestible and impactful message
about how your nervous, your nervous, your nervous system
sensitivity can become elevated.So here's what can trigger a

(43:20):
flare up. Let's say on a given week, Cody,
you are sleeping normally, eating normally, work stress is
average. Let's say all those things are
in control levels at control. So just for visuals, everyone
pretend with me, I'm holding my hand around my my shoulders.

(43:41):
OK, let's just say my hands is at my shoulders and the bottom
of this well is at my belly button.
Let's say this is where your trigger normally is.
So a threshold needs to be reached where it hits my hand to
elicit the signal of pain, wheremy brain will create pain.
This is where my threshold is. If someone goes on vacation,

(44:02):
meditates, does less of the bad movements, more of the good
movements, better sleep, this threshold increases.
It's harder to trigger the pain cause the nervous system is less
sensitive. OK, now the opposite occurs.
Dude, you're losing your job, you're getting divorced.
Like you just lost your dog. Like bad things happening.

(44:27):
Now that threshold gets lower and lower and lower.
So now let's say normally if I were to stub my toe on a table,
that would normally not be enough, let's say to trigger
significant pain. But now because my threshold is
so low, AKA my nervous system isso sensitive now, that sends me
through the roof and that's going to create a flare up.

(44:47):
We're under normal circumstances, A flare would
have not occurred. That's the role your nervous
system plays in that pain, in the experience that other things
in life have on it as it results.
So in that scenario, what's really helpful for individuals
to hear, and I love talking about these topics, Cody, one of
the best things to do is to consider, did you actually do

(45:11):
anything to make your pain worse?
So there will be scenarios wheresomeone will be in the gym or
not even in the gym. You know, we've had individuals
who are are going to the bathroom and they feel a pop in
their low back and then all their pain, you know,
significant increases. OK, that's an acute incident,
very obvious where it occurred from.

(45:32):
But let's say you're living yourlife normally, like you don't do
anything out of the ordinary, but then all of a sudden all of
your pain increases. Don't freak out, think OK, I
didn't lift any differently, I didn't move any differently.
I didn't do anything significantly different in my
life. OK then what does that mean?
It means you didn't injure yourself.
That's what that means. You were in a car wreck, you

(45:55):
didn't have a massive fall. You didn't go and try to pull
700 like you did not re injure yourself.
So why is your pain currently elevated?
It has to be involved with things outside of the biological
bubble. It has to be involved with
something else. And that should be extremely

(46:16):
helpful and extremely encouraging for people because
the number one fear when their pain increases, assuming they
didn't do anything to actually do it.
Sometimes they do. Sometimes people are feeling
better and then they're like, I'm going to go do a kickboxing
class now and OK, too much, too low, too fast, right?
OK, too much low, too fast, I meant.
But in this scenario, you know, people will panic and I don't

(46:38):
blame them. And what's going on?
Did I just re herniate it? Did I did I tear something in my
back? I can barely move.
Do I need to run to the ER? What's going on?
Like it can spiral people into a, into a massive panic.
But if you calm down and you think, OK, did I, did I actually
do anything? And if the answer is no, that's,
that's your nervous system, That's the that's the rest of
your life that's affecting your nervous system.

(47:00):
Let's analyze what else is goingon in your life and figure out
why the flare up occurred. And one very brief example.
This is normally a longer story but I'll make it very short.
We had a client in Brazil. Got her completely pain free
within 8 weeks. Amazing pain free for a month.
She was told she needed surgery.Message us.

(47:21):
All my pains back. I did something I re injured
myself. All my pains completely back.
Made absolutely no sense. Absolutely no sense.
We got on a call with her and I'm really expediting this
story. We get on a call with her, we
talk her through this exact sameconcept.
Did you do anything? No I didn't.
No I didn't. No I didn't but I re injured
myself. Hey, we know you didn't because
you didn't do anything different.
We start picking apart what elseis going on in her life.

(47:44):
Turns out the day before all of her pain came back, her best
friend died. There it is.
We helped her realize it. Within 48 hours, 100% of her
pain gone again. How's that?
I love. I love that you guys take it to
that level. We're, we're really passionate
about the psychology behind whatwe do as well in a different

(48:07):
realm, obviously. And I think our mind, our
emotions, our nervous system, itplays such a role in so many
factors that get disregarded because it's out of scope of
practice, which is just such BS because we just need to ask
questions, build trust and have a conversation, you know, and it
makes such a difference. So I love that I know we're

(48:29):
going to be running up on time here soon.
I could man, I could ask you a million questions.
This is good. I have a a couple things I just
want to run by you. And then I want to kind of hear
just about like exactly how yourprogram works because it's
online. And I know there's a lot of
people probably listening who may not have ever even heard of
being able to quote UN quote, goto the chiropractor via mobile
or remote, right? So I really want to dig into
that to finish things up. But before I do, I have a couple

(48:52):
questions. And if you think of some myths
or things you want to spin off to after these two, that's
totally fine. The first one isn't necessarily
a myth. And I have no issue with this
person. I think that there's personally,
there's got to be a decent amount of value that he's
provided in this industry because he's such a well known
name. But Doctor Stewart McGill
created the McGill Big three. And you're not the first person

(49:15):
I've talked to that is either a Cairo or a physical therapist or
just a really high level strength and conditioning coach
that none of which have. I've never even say anybody say
anything bad about him, but mademe feel like the McGill Big 3
was just too simple in order to like be the solution.
But it for people like me. I'm like, but it's, it's helped
not me, but so many people and I'm like, how can it be that

(49:38):
simple? It's 3 movements.
They're not that complicated. I don't even see how you
progressively overload them, which as you're talking about
that factor, I'm like, man, thatmakes so much sense.
Why would we treat it anything any differently?
Do 1 little thing and then just never progress it.
That doesn't make sense, you know, So can you explain why, or
if I'm wrong? But if not, why it's not just

(49:59):
that simple, or why maybe that has worked for so many people
yet usually, maybe there's more to it than just the McGill Big
Three. I have as much time as you have,
Cody, just so you know. So here's my response to that.
First off, there are stepping stones to research and
development. One finding and one level of

(50:20):
research will never remain the standard ever.
So one thing I just want to pluginto the listeners who hear this
is this is what it, this is how things used to be described.
And we know very, very clearly that this is no longer the case.
We know now that the spine is very strong, very resilient.

(50:44):
If there's ever an approach thatis telling you the opposite,
that's telling you to not move your spine, that if you're doing
deadlifts, you're not going to be able to play with your kids
when or your grandkids when you're 70 or 80, that you can't
have both. That is not accurate.
Your, your discs can't adapt. We know that now.
It used to be stated that they can't.
They absolutely can. Your discs and and joints and

(51:06):
connective tissue, these things can adapt.
It's OK to round your back. It's totally fine to do that.
Sometimes we're flexion intolerant and we need a
different approach. But your spine was made to move.
It wouldn't have so many joints if it wasn't OK.
Your spine is not a 2 by 4. So keep that in mind.
Our spine's made to move. And any approach that makes you
afraid to move your spine or virtual surgeries where you

(51:30):
pretend like you had surgery. No, no, that's not cutting it.
So now moving on to the go big three.
OK, if it's so simple and you can't progress out, well, how
could it help so many people? Amazing question, Cody, and
here's why. If I'm someone who's afraid to
move, who's afraid to exercise, and I think everything I do is

(51:53):
going to hurt me, so I'm stuck in a rest panic state, but then
someone of perceived authority, maybe potentially also authority
depends on how you look at things in life tells me with
100% confidence, hey, here are three movements you can do that
are safe that you don't have to worry about.

(52:15):
You just gave me an A Xanax and an exercise.
That's what you did. So now I have the confidence to
go do these three things and I'll have fear with these three
things. So now you're getting someone
who is not moving and afraid to move and not be afraid.
What do you think's going to produce better clinical
outcomes? Moving and not being afraid.
So they do these three movementsand they go, wow, I felt so much

(52:38):
better. OK, Is it because your core is
weak and now it's strong? Is it because your spine wasn't
stable and now it is? Or is it because you're
panicking and not moving and nowyou're not panicking and you're
moving? OK, that's typically the
scenario. So this is where the myth of
core stability, core strength and back pain really kind of

(53:00):
started to begin. Truthfully, is people who were
deconditioned, weak, not moving and afraid.
They do a core exercise now theyfeel better.
Oh, it's because my core was weak because I did a core
exercise. Now I feel better.
Therefore it was my core. But if I had that person do

(53:21):
cartwheels, they would feel better.
So it was cartwheels. That's that was the fix.
If you take someone who's afraidnot moving and deconditioned and
you get them stronger or doing anything, that thing will make
them feel better. That's, that's the scenario.
Now there can be some core connection, yes, there could be
some stability connections. Yes, there could be core

(53:42):
function components that I mentioned earlier, breathing,
bracing, knowing how to create intial abdominal pressure.
These are things that we do focus on.
But understanding the differencebetween the reason why back pain
hurts is because my core is weak.
That's, that's, that's a myth. There's no clear evidence to
support that. So that would be my
justification behind why some people feel better with McGill
Big Three. That's good.

(54:03):
That's, I love the, the emphasison movement so much.
I think that in that analogy, your, your spine is not 2 by 4.
That that is really good. And it's funny because even I've
talked to people, I've never talked to people about that, but
I've even talked to people aboutlike ankle issue.
And then they ice it and then they wrap it up and they got a
big brace. And I'm like, you gotta get some
circulation, some movement. Like let's not just put a brace

(54:25):
on it and restrict its movement.But when it comes to your spine,
that's what a lot of people do. It's what I you even get stiff,
but, and it can be confusing cause, you know, for me there's
more issues with lifting. I ran, I'm currently going
through some back pain right now.
I ran 6 miles this morning. Totally fine.
In fact, I feel great running. It makes me want to run more
because I'm like, it goes away and then I can just clear my
head, which made me think neurallike, OK, I'm at peace when I'm

(54:48):
running. But also I'm definitely, and I,
I kind of already knew this flexion when I run.
I'm an extension typically. So it's being able to pick it
apart and educate people like this is just so unbelievably
helpful. And I think that the
practicality of what you're giving as far as advice is so
good too, because it's the same thing with yogis or people get

(55:09):
really into stretching. It's like great, you can touch
the floor with your palms, your hamstring, super flexible.
Now do a deadlift and and like as soon as they put a load in
that hamstring stretch and a stiff leg deadlift, they're
weak, They're in state where they can't do it.
And it's like, well, what's the point of being hyper flexible if
you can't load it? Because picking up your
grandkids, you bend over or hinge if you're doing it

(55:31):
perfectly, which nobody does andyou're picking them up, right?
So I love it. The other myth or thing I wanted
to run by you too, is you kind of alluded to the tight
hamstrings thing, which is why I'm bringing it up is Butlink.
What's the the deal with Butlink?
I haven't heard much about it asof late.
Really. It's not something that I've
heard talked about, but I remember that in just the

(55:51):
strength world, as you know, a decade ago when I was learning
things, it was like a very, verybig no, no, you squat, you got
butt wink. Like we got to fix that issue
right away. That's gonna lead to back
issues. Is butt wink a problem?
Is this a myth? Is is there something to it?
What does this mean? It's only a.
Problem. It's a if it's a problem, that's
it. If there's pain.
Yeah. I mean, look, look at some of

(56:12):
the the elite lifters in in the Olympics.
Watch people in the Olympics. Are they winking?
Yeah, a bunch of them. A bunch of them are butt
winking. Like do they feel fine?
If they give me a thumbs up, I go, OK, I'm not going to touch
it. If there's someone else who's
super flexion intolerant and they love squatting heavy and
they're going as to grass and every time they butt wink, they

(56:32):
flare up. Should we address it?
Yeah, probably. Like that's really it.
So it's not, it's not a problem unless it's a problem.
So the the last thing we want todo is arbitrarily paint any type
of movement or position as bad. Under no context.
There is no good or bad movement, there's just the
movement that your body's not prepared for.
That's good. I like that.

(56:54):
OK. How does your program work?
I know you have obviously you have grown this over time.
You started it at a crazy time. I remember COVID as well.
I started my online business right before COVID, not knowing
COVID was going to hit, ironically, but that was a crazy
time. You did it at a perfect time.
You did something that nobody had done before, I would assume,

(57:16):
because I've never heard of it. And now you're, I mean, you were
helping people all over the world, the very successful, the
number one program. How does this work?
If I mean, like, obviously just,you know, give me the pitch in a
way, like I want to sign up. I want people to hear about this
because this is something that is as an online coach who
focuses on mostly body composition, that's what people
hire us for, right? Sometimes performance, one of

(57:38):
the hardest parts is when somebody needs somebody to
specialize in rehab with them, whether it's Cairo, PT, anything
I might be across the country. So to cross my fingers and hope
that the provider they have nearthem is going to do the right
thing and help them out and I'm trying to like dissect what
they're hearing. That's a scary, that's a scary
scenario. So for online coaches, you're

(57:58):
like the perfect solution to this that we can refer out to.
And obviously the proofs in the pudding, you're helping people
everywhere. So just give us like an overview
of how does this actually work? How do you guys see people?
What do they go through and what's what's the process like?
Yeah, let's make this as digestible as possible.
So I'll refer back to fitness related concepts that will
really resonate with your audience.

(58:19):
So Cody, for you, you've been lifting forever.
OK, If I were to send you a video of me squatting full
picture, and I were to ask you advice on my squat form or
deadlift form, would you be ableto watch my movement and provide
advice on that? Yeah.
Yeah. Super easy.
How many people out there are looking up yoga flows or
mobility flows on YouTube and following along?

(58:40):
Like most people who care about their health, This is very
simple concepts. That's because it's movement.
And as long as you can see someone's movement and as long
as you can get feedback from them regarding the movement that
we can, we can help anyone because low back pain is largely
movement based problem and it needs a movement based solution.
So that's exactly how we do it. It isn't complicated.

(59:02):
It's complicated if you don't know movement, it's complicated
if you don't understand mechanics.
It's complicated if you don't pick into these other things,
but for us it's really incredibly easy.
So we always start with a free initial consultation with
everybody. Just a short 15 minute call to
listen to your situation to ensure that you're in that 90 to
97% whose conservative care is appropriate and that you

(59:24):
shouldn't be referred out for some special tests or
alternative specialists. We want to make sure that you
are dealing with a common thing that we can help.
Great. Next up is a one hour full
evaluation where we take you through movement testing, so
various ranges of motion, various orthopedic testing, so
special tests that only a doctorcan perform.
No, you just teach someone else to do it.

(59:46):
Hey, bend over, touch your toes,bend back, rotate.
Perform this nerve test. They they can do anything we
can. We can show them anything we
would ever need to do and then they'd provide us feedback.
How does that feel? This one feels fine.
How does this feel? This one hurts.
Where? Down on my knee.
What does it feel like? Burning.
OK. Great.
Continue to go through the movements to see their movement

(01:00:09):
and understand their triggers and responses to the movement.
Then we'll do exercises with them live.
On the first call, we'll say, hey, based on these triggers,
it's clear that you have this intolerance.
So now let's test this movement pattern that typically helps
these conditions the most. So let's try these exercise
together. Maybe it's an initial home run,
maybe we need modifications. Maybe we need to go a different

(01:00:30):
direction. We typically do as much testing
as we need to get a positive result.
All right, sweet. We're starting to feel better
with these. Fantastic.
Let's redo your initial movements now.
How do they feel now? Oh, this one's better.
This one's better. Yeah, this one's the same.
This one's better. OK, sweet.
We're moving the right directionthen.
And then that confirms what is causing their pain.

(01:00:51):
It also confirms the direction we need to go to fix it.
And then based on that individual's unique
circumstances, then we develop arobust program to help guide
them one-on-one from beginning to end and ensure they get back
to doing all the things they want to do pain free.
I love it. It's it, it makes me think and
it makes so much sense the way you broke that down.

(01:01:12):
Like I, I watch people's technique and form when they're
lifting every single week and I critique and give feedback and
help them very similar. But I think the reason it's not
a, the concept that normal people kind of gravitate to is
'cause when we think of Cairo, we go, I need to go to the Cairo
and get adjusted. So what without opening a can of

(01:01:35):
worms, why is it that Cairo means get adjusted?
Why is it like that, the path? And it's so rare to see people
who are chiropractors doing whatyou're doing, which is very
movement focused. You're taking patients through
from point A to point B, get himout of pain, and you're not
adjusting them once. So, like, why is it so
polarizing? Yeah, I.

(01:01:56):
I would love to see a medical doctor that's been treated in
medicine the majority of his life go 100% online with rehab.
That'd be great. You know, we have singular
connotations with different medical professions and that's
OK. You think medical doctor,
medicine, PT, physical therapy, you know you're going to think
rehab, exercises, chiropractor, you think adjustment.
That's because that's a majorityof what that profession is

(01:02:16):
associated with and that's OK. Majority of people think I'm a
physical therapist. I don't.
I don't care what people think Iam.
I don't care about is getting results.
So the reason why a majority of people have this misconception
or that they think they need to go is because they think they
need to be touched. Someone has to touch me.
Someone needs to put hands on meand trust me.
The people who the people who, who don't like the impact of our

(01:02:40):
program, the people who don't like the fact that we're, you
know, helping clients in their city that they're not getting
into their office in person. They're the ones who are saying
no one could help you without touching you.
Well, let's break this down. You, you think if someone has a
disc carnation, you think you can touch a disc carnation?
Are you are you sinking your hand through 4 inches of muscle

(01:03:01):
into their spine to touch that disc carnation?
What are you talking about? No, if it's a movement based
problem, then we need movement solutions to resolve it.
And there is no degree of touch.If it's a movement problem,
sometimes there's sometimes there's additional things,
sometimes there's tissue dysfunction, sometimes there's
other things. OK.
But if it's mostly a movement based problem, you need the

(01:03:23):
right movement plan and you don't got to touch somebody to
provide the right movement plan.You just need to have good
clinical evaluation, good diagnostic skills, and good
movement based evaluations. That's what will get them
better. So can adjustments be helpful
because they're moving your spine?
Yes. But that's an intervention that
only someone else can perform onyou.

(01:03:45):
It's designed to temporarily move you, create a window of
opportunity to reduce your pain.But that's not changing your
long term mobility. It's not changing your
education, it's not changing your lifestyle.
It's not giving you the new movements and mechanics and and
exercises to follow to change it.
No, it's a passive therapy. You can't have your chiropractor
following around with you 24/7. 2nd you need pay and boom, it's

(01:04:08):
gone. That's not a realistic
lifestyle. So you got to figure out how to
fix it yourself. That's what we do.
I love it. That's so good.
I mean, I think this is something that probably already
is and could very well change the industry for the better,
honestly, your industry, becauseit's it's crazy how I mean, I
remember people way back in the day saying the same thing with

(01:04:31):
just training to me. Like, how could you train
somebody online? And I was like, you can't afford
to have me in person with you five days a week and I'm not
going to follow you home to the kitchen.
So how are you going to get the result you want if I'm not
remote and available? And it's like kind of an aha
moment eventually to people, youknow, now it's a very common
thing. So I can only imagine that it's
going to happen in your industryas well.

(01:04:52):
And you're kind of leading the front man.
So this is it's really cool to see it.
Is man, so I, I, so I went all in on this in 2020 and the first
couple years other Cairos and PTS were reaching out to me
like, hey, how, how you doing this?
How you doing this? But within these last two years,
within the last six months, the number of people who have
reached out to me, the numbers are massively changing.

(01:05:15):
So for anyone out there who might be a fellow provider, the
future of physical rehabilitation, which will be
the majority of health focus when it comes to musculoskeletal
conditions, it should be and it will be.
We're slowly getting away from quickly running to injections
and medications and interventions.

(01:05:36):
If you are in the physical rehabilitation realm, they I'm
going to change your lifestyle, I'm going to change your
movements. If you don't have an online
component to your business within the next 5 to 10 years,
you're going to be extinct. Like the the wave is coming
right now. I was ahead of the wave.
I've been riding it. But it it's it's coming now.
And the wave's going to pass. Probably in three to five years,

(01:05:58):
the wave's going to be passing. That's an opportunity boat that
people need to be jumping on. And yeah, that's what people are
going to be looking for because people want more value, more
structure, more guidance, more access.
And how do you get that through an online approach?
That's how you get it. Like the clients who come to us,
they've tried all the in person stuff.

(01:06:18):
Like our, our clients are not people who are like, oh, you're
the first person I've tried. No, we are the last resort
before surgery. That's us.
Like people do all the local cheap passive stuff first.
Like, OK, well, I want to get surgery.
So I'm going to try rehab fix now, see if they can avoid the
surgery. And we do majority of the time
we are the last resort. So like you got to get on the

(01:06:41):
bandwagon and get individuals and people out there more value,
more help, more structure because the 10 minutes you have
with them in the office or even if you're a rehab provider and
you're doing 3045 minutes, that's great.
That's great. But if the only impact you have
is right then and there, you're you're still losing impact that
you could otherwise be providing.
Yeah. It's so good, man.

(01:07:04):
Extremely. Informative conversation.
I think what you're doing is amazing.
I think it's going to really, and as, as I can see it is
really revolutionize that side of the industry.
I'm excited to watch it. I'm going to be reaching out
'cause I'm excited to be a part of it and 'cause I need help and
it sounds way more applicable tomy life and convenient and
helpful, to be honest with you. So I'm, I'm excited about it.
But for everybody listening, I'll put all of your links to

(01:07:26):
find you in the description. But if you can just tell them
where to find you. I know you have amazing content
on Instagram. So just maybe where to find you
the best places that would be amazing.
So I can put that in the the show notes of this podcast, our
number. One source is Instagram.
The handle is rehab fix. I am rehab fix on all platforms.
If you don't have Instagram, youwatch YouTube.
I got our stuff on YouTube as well.

(01:07:47):
And one thing I do want to provide an opportunity to your
audience is if you go to our Instagram and you message me
just the word podcast. I have a training that I have
not put in in any ad or any organic platform.
It, it's nowhere and it's, it's a highly, highly, highly
valuable video where if someone messages that, I'll immediately
send it to you where I will actually walk you through our

(01:08:08):
full assessment evaluation to take you through a self
diagnostic process test to do ifcertain movements trigger a
pain, What that means and what you can do about it right then
and there so that I can provide you real time results with
without me even talking to you. And if that provides you some
value and you see the window of opportunity and, and you know,
this podcast and maybe that thatguide gives you some hope and

(01:08:30):
you want more help, then we're absolutely here to help you
achieve that. I love it.
I'm. Going to put that in there make
sure you guys go message him follow him unbelievable man.
Thank you so much for spending the time with me and and sharing
all the wisdom that you have andand just answering all my
questions. This has been.
I knew it was going to be a goodpodcast, but honestly it was
even better than I expected. So honestly, I really appreciate
it. Thank you for for spending time
with me my. Pleasure man, I love doing this

(01:08:52):
and I love people like you who are putting good information out
there and who are helping peoplechoose the hard thing and choose
the better path of how to optimize their life and live it
to the fullest.

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#81 - Dr. Grant Elliott: The Truth About Back Pain, Chiropractors, & Low-Back Rehab

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#81 - Dr. Grant Elliott: The Truth About Back Pain, Chiropractors, & Low-Back Rehab