April 14, 2025 • 47 mins
Stuart Secker's return to the Choose to Endure podcast brings a remarkable story of resilience that transcends the typical ultrarunning narrative. Just eight months ago, Stuart received a prostate cancer diagnosis that would change everything. Four months ago, he underwent surgery to remove his prostate. And incredibly, just ten weeks after resuming training, he completed his 21st 100-mile race at the Daufuskie Island 100 in South Carolina.
The conversation takes us through Stuart's entire journey, beginning with that pivotal moment of diagnosis. Rather than being paralyzed by fear, Stuart immediately shifted into problem-solving mode, asking "what's next?" With characteristic British pragmatism, he made a decision that might seem unthinkable to most – to run the brutally challenging Ultra Trail Cape Town 100-mile race just two weeks before his scheduled surgery. Why? Because it might be his last opportunity to experience the profound joy and challenge of ultrarunning.
Stuart doesn't sugarcoat the recovery process. From the physical limitations of having his core muscles cut through during surgery to the psychological challenges of rebuilding his running capacity from scratch, he shares the raw truth of his comeback. His methodical approach to training – starting with short walks, progressing to gentle runs with his wife, and carefully implementing run-walk strategies – offers a masterclass in patient persistence that runners of all abilities can learn from.
What makes this story so compelling isn't just the physical achievement, but Stuart's transformation into an advocate for men's health. With staggering statistics (1 in 8 men in will develop prostate cancer, rising to 1 in 4 for Black men - UK statistics), he emphasizes the critical importance of early detection through regular PSA testing. His message is clear: cancer isn't something that "happens to other people" – it can happen to anyone, and early detection saves lives.
Subscribe now to hear this powerful conversation about what it truly means to endure, both on the trail and in life. Whether you're a back-of-the-pack hero or simply someone facing your own challenges, Stuart's journey will inspire you to keep moving forward with gratitude and determination.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, hello and welcome again If this happens to
be your first time with us.
Thank you very much forstopping by.
You are listening to Choose toEndure the show dedicated to the
non-elite runners, where weshare stories, interviews, gear
and training tips specific tothe tail end heroes of the Ultra
(00:21):
Universe.
My name is Richard Gleave.
I have been running Ultras nowsince 2017.
I have taken on and finishednumerous distances, all the way
up through 220 miles, and I ammost definitely a member of the
back of the pack, just like manyof you out there.
(00:43):
Well, today I am super honoredto welcome back an individual
who may just have been actuallyone of the very first guests on
the show back in season one MrStuart Secker.
Now, stuart is a seasoned ultrarunner from the UK who's
tackled some pretty brutalcourses across both the US and
(01:04):
the UK, where he lives.
But this time we're not justtalking about racing
internationally.
We're going to talk aboutsomething a little bit bigger
too.
Eight months ago, stuart wasdiagnosed with prostate cancer.
Four months ago, he had surgeryand just 10 weeks after
(01:24):
resuming training, he completedhis 21st 100-mile race at the
and I may butcher this nameDaufuskie Island 100 in South
Carolina.
Now in the episode, we're goingto dive into the physical,
mental and emotional journey ofdiagnosis, recovery and comeback
(01:44):
, and what it means to trulyendure, not just on the trail
but in life.
It's raw, it's honestconversation and I think every
runner, particularly those of usin the back of the pack, can
find something meaningful in it.
So let's go Discover raw,inspiring stories from runners
(02:06):
who've been right where you are.
This is the Choose to EndureUltra Running Podcast With your
host he's English, notAustralian Richard Gleave.
All right, stuart, before wedive into your comeback and the
race itself, I just wanted tofirst of all welcome you to the
(02:29):
show again and to take you backto where this journey really
began Last year.
You're diagnosed with prostatecancer and everything changed,
from surgery to recovery torebuilding.
For listeners who might notknow that full story, I think
this was a pretty pivotal momentfor you.
Do you remember where you werewhen you first heard the
(02:53):
diagnosis?
What was that moment like foryou?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Hey Richard, yeah, it was some.
I guess the kind of thediagnosis was a buildup to it.
So I have a annual work medical, which I'm really fortunate to
have it's not a routine thinghere in the uk at all and that
pointed out an elevated level ofprostate specific antigen, psa.
(03:18):
We can probably talk a lotabout psa, and so off the back
of that they said we think youshould go and have a scan.
So I went and had an mri scanand that showed up something
that was maybe not quite right.
Well, it could be nothing couldbe, um, could be, could be a
problem right so you go and havea biopsy and so by the time you
(03:40):
get to the kind of the resultsof the biopsy and, stuart,
you've got cancer.
You've already mentallyprepared yourself a little bit
because you wouldn't have goneso far on that journey if it
wasn't a possibility right rightand so when I'm sat there in
the consulting room with myurologist and he, he gives me
the results of the biopsy.
(04:01):
It's it's not great news, butit's not a total shock either.
So I've had a bit of time toget myself ready.
For what, if that is the answer?
goodness me so you know, I Iwasn't sat there dumbstruck or
anything else, it was.
It was very much okay.
So what's next?
What do we do with that?
And he was really good actually.
(04:21):
He just said well, the firstthing you need to do is go and
read a whole bunch of stuff.
And he gave is go and read awhole bunch of stuff.
And he gave me a whole bunch ofstuff to read and some websites
to go look at and then saidcome back in a week's time and
we can have another chat aboutwhere we go from here.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Did you go through kind of a spectrum of emotions,
either by yourself at the houseor wherever, or did you move
straight to what is it I need todo?
How did you move straight towhat?
What is it I need to do?
How did you kind of?
How did it?
How did you get there?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I think I I went through that whole bargaining
acceptance thing really quicklyand it was just very much.
Okay, this is not great news,right, but but kind of like,
what do I do now?
there's no point in you know I II probably had more of the kind
of the why is this happening tome?
Thing once after the surgeryactually Okay, when I really did
(05:11):
get to a point of feeling a bitsorry for myself and I felt
very self-indulgent for doingthat, because fundamentally I
was a good news story.
My prostate cancer was caughtreally early.
It was all contained within thegland.
Your prostate is an organ that,once you've had kids, you can
basically live without.
(05:32):
It's not like having cancer ofthe brain or the liver or the
pancreas, where you obviouslycan't live without one of those
things.
So long as it's caught in time.
I felt one of the lucky onesand so I felt a bit
self-indulgent to feel sorry formyself.
But yeah that is just how I felt, but but at the time it was, it
was just kind of okay, here's aum, here's a hurdle, right,
(05:53):
what's uh?
What do we do about it?
Speaker 1 (05:55):
now is that?
Has that always been yourpersonality or do you feel like
like you've done a lot ofhundred mile races?
You know you dnf some.
You've succeeded in a lot.
Do you feel like those 100 mileraces and what you've gone
through in order to learn how tofinish those and and deal with
the emotional and physical stuffthere, did that help you?
Do you think, or has that justbeen your personality and your
(06:17):
personality has helped you hereand on the hundreds?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
my hunch is it's probably the latter.
I mean, I'd love to think thatkind kind of running 100 mile
races has made me bulletproof,but kind of you know, I've got
the DNF record to show that.
Ain't true, being in the momentand, uh, being present in the
(06:46):
moment and and solving theproblem that's right in front of
you is probably key to successin in ultra running, like like,
like you know, and I think thatthat definitely helped also yeah
deal with the deal with the.
You know the, the news lastsummer did you have any warning
signs?
Speaker 1 (07:01):
looking back with, with hindsight, do you feel like
there was anything there thatwould have alerted you, physical
or otherwise, that somethingmay be off?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
no, not really.
I mean, men of our agedefinitely should keep an eye
out for for those, for the sortsof symptoms that go with
prostate cancer.
They're they're privatesymptoms and so people often
don't want to talk about them,sometimes don't go and see their
doctor when they should,because you know it's basically
(07:32):
problems with, you know, kind ofgoing to the toilet or having
sex, right.
So these are things many mendon't want to talk about because
basically men are rubbish.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
But, as it happens for me, I didn't have any of
those symptoms.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
It was literally a routine medical check that
caught it really early, so youhad no no kind of prior prior
thought.
Yeah, yeah, and then I and youtold me this just before we got
on air here.
So I think we've got to talkabout this too, because, having
received the diagnosis, you'veworked through some of the
mental and emotional stuff.
You're trying to figure outwhat you're doing here.
(08:07):
Two weeks prior to surgery, yougo and run the Ultra Trail Cape
Town 100-mile race.
Yeah, now, folks, if you don'tknow much about this race, this
is a pretty darn tough race.
There's, like I want to say,25,000 feet.
What is that, stuart?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
It's about kind of 7,500 meters, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yeah, I mean, this is not an easy race.
And so you have cancer, youhaven't gone for the surgery yet
, you're still dealing with someof this and you're off running
the Ultra Trail Cape Town 100.
So walk us through that.
Was that something you hadalready previously planned,
presumably, and you chose tokeep doing that, knowing that
(08:52):
you had prostate cancer.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, I booked it once I'd had the diagnosis, but
before I decided that surgerywas the right answer for me, wow
.
But when I did reach thedecision on surgery, it then
became, I think, really a youknow kind of.
I was mindful that it could bea send-off, the surgery.
You know you're under generalanaesthetic.
(09:15):
Bad stuff can happen and younever know what you're going to
find, and so it was not likely,but it was definitely possible,
that this would be it for 100mile races, and so I wanted to
really go out with a bang.
I wanted to do something reallyspecial, and there's no doubt
that running 100 miler in CapeTown is an incredibly special
(09:37):
thing to do.
I mean, more cities should justhave mountains right outside
them, yeah Right.
And literally you go up and downtable mountain, I don't know,
kind of four or five times, andit's like a 3 000 foot mountain
that stretches from the you know, from the ocean, to the to the
summit, and the trail is gnarlyas hell.
And you've got I.
(09:58):
I had to go past a pack ofbaboons that were literally
within touching distance, at theside of the trail kind of, and
the baby looked pretty cute, butthe daddies looked pretty mean
good grief and you know that'sthat.
That's that's just what you umthat either.
That's what you deal with onthat, on that course and it was,
it was a special place to goand it was a special race to do
(10:19):
and I I mean it's a hard rockqualifier.
For a reason, when I crossedthat finish line, I was in
floods of tears.
Firstly, I'd put in 44 hours ofeffort to get to that finish
line.
It was a big old race, but alsoit was okay.
(10:47):
So maybe this is my swan song.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
If it is, I've just had an amazing two days.
Wow, was that on your mindthrough the race then?
Or were you able to just focuson the race and then it sort of
all hit there at the finish yeah, I didn't really dare to think
about finishing until maybe 10miles from the end.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
you, you know, once I got through the last aid
station and had enough time youknow, I had something like four
hours to do the last 10 miles Ithought, okay, I've got this.
And that was the point at whichI started to think about
finishing.
And then what's next?
Up until that point I was juststruggling to make it to the
next checkpoint before it closed, and not necessarily because of
(11:25):
the cancer, but because, as ahard flipping race, it's, it's a
, it's a, it's a, it's a damnedhard, it's a damned hard race.
It really really is.
As I say, it's, it's a hardrock qualifier.
For a reason it's the only hardrock qualifier on on the
african continent and there's a.
There's a whole festival ofraces around it and it's a
really international field aswell.
(11:45):
I mean, I met a guy fromflorida who was there to to bag
a hard rock qualifier.
So you know, you've got peopleflying from all over the world
to to run in this on this race,just because it's so wonderful
yeah, it's a long way fromleatherhead too to uh yeah it's
even further from florida.
To be fair, I'm sure it is, yeahso I just so you mentioned
(12:09):
baboons.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Were there any other like cool animals like what?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
I have the impression that baboons are quite testy,
yeah, yeah, I mean, when you'vegot a pack of baboons and and,
um, I know there's like 20 or soof them and you know they're
kind of, and you know they'rekind of the, as I say, they're
kind of the babies were sat on alittle wall by the trail and
they look pretty cute, but thenthey're kind of the daddies kind
of like sauntered into themiddle of the trail and happily
(12:36):
I had my poles out at this timeso I could just sort of like,
kind of like wave my poles inthe big guy's faces and they
decided that I could probably gopast.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Wow, how big are we talking?
I have no idea how big a baboonis.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, so they ain't gorilla-sized or anything.
They're probably kind of a bitbigger than chimps.
They're mean enough and withbad enough teeth Big enough,
yeah.
Especially when there's a packof them right, if they wanted to
take you down, they reallycould.
Good grief, wow, I mean therewas a.
There was a kind of a meanlooking snake as well, but kind
of to americans, that sort ofyou know man I I've I've run
(13:15):
with gators and bison.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Bison are pretty mean too, especially in calf season.
Those are massive animals andwe're about to go run with some
interesting snakes.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
So but never a baboon that's.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
That's a new one to me, so yeah but nonetheless a
fantastic job.
Getting through the ultra trailcape town.
I would think that's probably acancer aside for a moment,
that's probably a really goodsort of destination race to, uh,
oh, completely look out for forfolks if they're looking for a
different environment, some, youknow, a change of run.
Oh, completely yeah.
(13:49):
So then two weeks later you'rein and having surgery.
Yeah and so so, yeah, how Iassume the surgery went well.
How was the recovery from thesurgery?
Was it slow going and what?
What was on your mind comingout of that surgery?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
yeah, so, so, um.
So the surgery, they obviouslythey remove the prostate.
The prostate is wrapped aroundthe um urethra.
That's the, that's the tubethat takes uh, goes between the
bladder and and the outsideworld.
So you've got a.
Whilst that heals, you've got acatheter in for 10 days.
That's not pleasant at all.
(14:30):
And so your mobility is prettyrestricted.
All prostate surgery these daysis basically done as
robot-assisted oh really, wow.
So they kind of put theselittle holes in the side of your
stomach and the sort of therobot arms kind of go into to,
kind of to do the cutting andstitching together and stuff,
(14:51):
and then there's a kind of aprobably a two-inch cut right by
your belly button, which iswhere they take the prostate out
from.
And so the most notable thingreally, once you're out, apart
from the catheter, is thatessentially they've just taken a
two-inch slice right down themiddle of your core.
And obviously, as runners, weknow the importance of the core,
(15:13):
right, yeah, but I had no realidea that it was so essential
even for sitting upright in achair with a back and arms Wow.
Upright in a chair with a with aback and arms wow, and by one
two o'clock in the afternoon, Iwould be in so much discomfort
from from that from my core thatbasically just been ripped,
(15:36):
ripped in half for this surgery,that I just have to lie down.
I mean, there was no, there wasno alternative.
Even even sitting up in bedwasn't really an option.
I had to lie down and thislasted for a good like four or
five weeks of just not able.
(15:56):
You know I was able to get outand walk as long as I did it in
the morning, because by the timethe afternoon came it was just
too painful to do anything butjust basically lie down on the
couch and watch box sets.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Was there any point at all in there where you were
thinking, okay, I don't know howI'm ever going to do running
again here.
When does that come back?
How is that going to come back?
Did you have a doubt that youwould kind of get back to it?
Did you always expect to comeback?
It was just a matter of time?
Speaker 2 (16:30):
I mean I.
I talked to my surgeon about itand he said oh, you should be
able to start jogging after fourweeks.
My physiotherapist was like no,no, no, no, no, six weeks at
the most, ah, so, so so I diddecide to err on the side of
caution and listen to the listento the physio.
Yeah, there are probably a fewmoments, especially with the
(16:51):
castor in, where and where youjust thought I don't know the
way back from here.
I was really helped by.
I chatted to a guy, robin,before surgery.
He's a, a coaching client of afriend of my coach, okay, and
he'd been through the surgerythree years before and had
gotten back to running thelakeland hundred like six weeks
(17:13):
after surgery in an amazing time, and so I thought, okay, is you
know, kind of he's a betterathlete than I am, but maybe
it's possible, right yeah and Ihad this race to defusky island
I think you pronounced it okayin in in the calendar anyways
and um, and I thought, okay,that can be my, you know that
(17:34):
can, that can be my focus if I,if I take six weeks off running
but try and do some aerobicexercise, some walking, maybe
sitting on an exercise bike no,actually I didn't do that.
That's a bad idea, uh.
But do so, do some, do somewalking and maybe do some kind
of body weight squats and stuff.
Then for six weeks and thenkind of 10 weeks of running.
(17:55):
Maybe I can, maybe I can getaround it.
At least I can give it a go.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
I love that attitude and yeah, yeah, I would agree.
I think sometimes it's justabout belief.
When you hear and talk tosomeone who's done it, who is in
your situation, suddenly youfeel like, oh well, it can be
done.
If they can do it, maybe I cando it too.
And that gives you that push tobelieve you can.
So I assume you did your squatsand whatnot.
(18:21):
But what did those first runsfeel like, did it?
Did it feel kind of weird?
Was there any lasting impact?
Speaker 2 (18:27):
yeah, first, first time I went out, um, I, uh, I, I
persuaded my wife to go with me.
She, she, she does run, butkind of she, she's perfectly
happy doing kind of 11, 12minute mile pace yeah and so,
and so it was a.
It was a.
I thought this is the best wayof me not getting ahead of
myself is to go out with her andum, and and it was.
(18:47):
It was hard, like you'd expect.
I mean, if you've not, ifyou've not run for six weeks or
not done any exercise at all forsix weeks, it's definitely
going to be hard to get out andrun, even if it's, even if
you're just doing three, fourmiles, and then you've got the
surgery piece on top as well.
But yeah, I found it reallytiring.
I also found bits of my kneesand ankles and stuff hurt
(19:12):
because they hadn't been used todoing it.
They haven't been used to doinganything for six, seven weeks.
So, um, so it was really for methen a question of trying to
calibrate my return to runningat the at the level of the
weakest part, because I feellike you've got so many
different parts with running.
You've got your ankle strength,your knee strength, you've got
(19:35):
your kind of your muscles,you've got your aerobic fitness,
I've got my core kind of stillwith a kind of big scar down the
middle and you know kind ofstill injury.
Surgery is injury, all right.
So you kind of still got thatkind of the wound inside that's
healing, and it was about tryingto calibrate to the weakest
part, not the strongest partright because it would be easy
(19:57):
to get ahead of yourself,because you think, oh yeah, my
aerobic fitness hasn't droppedoff that much.
I can, I can, I can kind of goand bash out a tempo session and
and that would be a very quickway to get injured.
Yes, so, um, so, so that's um,so, so it was.
It was.
It was a really kind of slowand steady buildup in the
(20:19):
mileage over those first eightweeks.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Did you have any fear of sort of pushing too hard?
I know you mentioned it alittle bit there, but just sort
of like.
It seems like you weredeliberately being slow in your
return, so to speak.
But was there ever a time whereyou were like this might be too
much?
Speaker 2 (20:40):
speak, but was there ever a time when you were like
this might be too much?
Yeah, the first time I did 20miles in my post-op and I got to
the end and I and I felt rinsed.
I thought, oh goodness, I don't, I wouldn't really fancy doing
another 80 miles at this pointoh, welcome to my world.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, that's just my.
My standard that is stew.
I'm glad you can appreciatewhere some of us are at.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
but my, my strategy for this race in in in south
carolina was always to do run,walk right from the right from
the get-go, and so that's what Ibuilt into my training and and
I tried to build a good level offueling into my training at
that pace as well, and I got tothe point where I was confident
(21:22):
I would get far enough in thatif I had to walk out the rest, I
would be okay.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
And walking was okay, like you didn't have a
challenge with walking.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
It was really just the running piece that was the
challenge at that point.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Yeah, yeah okay, so then why?
So we talked about theDaufuskie Island, if that's how
we're saying it?
I don't know.
You probably know, as peoplelive there probably are able to
pronounce that much better thanmyself.
Anyway, you had the DaufuskieIsland 100 on your calendar.
Why?
I mean, that seems like a racethat's a long way away from
Leatherhead, near London.
Why that race for your returnto running?
Speaker 2 (21:59):
So I DNF'd it 12 months ago.
Ah, right, right, it was aninaugural race in 2024.
And I DNF'd it.
I got to 60 miles and my gutswere complete and utter shambles
.
I could barely walk, wow.
And so, as soon as it opened up,I, um, I, I, I put myself back
(22:22):
in for a repeat visit, and thiswas this is before I had any
inkling that I might have cancer.
And then um, and then when thethen, when the diagnosis did
come up, and when the, when thesurgery became an option and I
was starting to think aboutdates for the surgery, it became
obvious this was a, this was arace that I could go back to.
I didn't need to cancel it.
(22:43):
I could.
You know that I had enough timeto um to recover from this.
I had enough time, in theoryanyway, to recover from the
surgery.
To do was to do the Cape Townrace to have the surgery and to
then recover from the surgery,to then do, then do the race in
in south carolina.
And so it.
It went from a.
I just want to go back and kindof not not leave that dnf on my
(23:06):
um on my record to.
This is the.
You know, this is going to bethe focus point for for me, for
for those 10 weeks of, or 16weeks of, post-op recovery, a
triumphant return, almost, and Iwas so.
I was so.
I was so pleased to have thatalready in the diary, because
otherwise I might have worriedabout booking something.
(23:27):
But having already booked it,it then just became a something
that could motivate me to getout, even when I felt a bit
uncomfortable, like a big focalpoint to shoot back for, which I
think is great and probably areally good thing in hindsight.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
So tell us a little bit about the Daufuskie Island.
What is the course like?
Terrain, atmosphere, I wouldn'timagine it was much like what
you left behind in Cape Town.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
No, no, no, it's the other end of the spectrum.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
So it's a great race and I would heartily recommend
people looking for a race downin um, down in the southeastern
uh, united states, to to give ita check out it.
The fusky island is a, um is ais a fairly small island.
It's um.
There's no bridge there.
You have to get a, you have toget a boat to get to the island
(24:21):
from the mainland and it's not abig boat either and you know
you're traveling through thesound and you've got all these
dolphins showing off around youas you get this boat over to the
island.
And there's not many cars on theisland.
Most people drive around ingolf carts on dirt roads and
(24:43):
there's loads of wildlife on theisland, lots of, lots of
armadillos.
You've got two and a half milesof it is on of.
Every lap is on a beach.
So the the race is a is six16.7 mile laps right of the
island and part of that loop isyou've got two and a half miles
of an out and back on a on abeach.
(25:03):
That's basically.
Then you've got atlantic oceanright, right in front of you and
it's um, uh.
At high tide you've got notmuch beach.
At low tide you've got amassive amount of beach.
Yeah yeah and at night time allthese crabs come out and start
kind of scuttling all over thescuttling all over the beach,
and it's really just quite areally magical place.
(25:24):
There's no hotels on the islandeither, so you can either get a
rental or I just camped by thestart-finish line.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
How did you bring the gear for that?
What gear did you have to camp?
Speaker 2 (25:37):
So I brought over a tent, sleeping bag, roll mat, a
little kind of a little campchair.
I brought over a stove.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
So you flew over with that and then took it on a boat
over to the island.
Yeah, wow, that's prettyinteresting.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Yeah, and I sat there at six in the morning.
Race started at seven.
I sat there at six in themorning, made myself a cup of
tea, like a true Englishman,Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
I started at seven.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
I sat there at six in the morning, made myself a cup
of tea like a true Englishman,Absolutely yeah and had some
rehydrated scrambled eggs thatI'd cooked up in my jet boil.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Look at you all proper camping out at the start
finish line.
There I need to up my game.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
And it was just a kind of a great all-round
experience.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
So did you go into the race then, when the race
kicked off?
Well, first of all, how wereyou feeling at the start line of
that race?
Having been through all of thethings you've been through,
what's going through your headat the moments before the start
of that 100-miler?
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Well, so actually I was five minutes late to the
start line, even though I wascamping by the start line,
that's hard to do.
Good job, yeah.
Yeah, I'd left not enough timeto put some sunscreen on and um
and uh and all that stuff, butand and anyway, so kind of.
So I set off, I was literallyon my own because I was five
(26:51):
minutes late and I just, I justset off with a vision of, okay,
I'm gonna do 28 minutes ofjogging, two minutes of walking.
During those two minutes I'mgonna eat something.
Yeah, and I'm gonna do 28minutes of jogging, two minutes
of walking.
During those two minutes I'mgonna eat something yeah and I'm
just gonna keep that up for um,for as that, that up for as,
for as long as I, for as long asI can, and obviously starting
five minutes after everyone.
You know the kind of the Iwasn't tempted to kind of like
(27:14):
run off too fast, I could stickto my own plan and um, and
gradually just kind of catchpeople up as I am.
Yeah, five minutes in thescheme of a hundred mile race is
is nothing right, not muchright, you know.
So, so kind of I could just letuh, there was no pressure to
sort of run off with the frontrunners or or any of that sort
of nonsense.
I could just stick to, you know, run my own race right from the
(27:37):
start and then just graduallypass people as I went along.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
And how many runners were there.
Stewart is this?
Was this a big?
A big field or a small field?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
like no, uh uh so there were maybe 20 doing the
100.
They do a 50 at the same time.
So there was right again, maybe10, 15, doing the, doing the 50
right, so off you've got.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
You know you've got off the start line five minutes
late in classic style there Leteverybody go and then chase them
down.
I like it, I like your approach.
Definitely better to passpeople than to be passed.
So I think mentally that's agreat strategy.
So how did your race plan out?
How did your loops go?
I would imagine it's probably16 miles, so roughly six loops
(28:18):
or something like that.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
That's right.
Yeah, six laps yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
So.
So how did your race pan out?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
so yeah, so first first two.
Absolutely fine, kept to.
The program was prettyconsistent time wise between the
two.
So I finished the first one inlike three hours, the second one
in maybe three hours and ten ofum of moving time.
It then starts to get a bit warmso I so I dropped down from
(28:44):
28.2 to 9.1 on the run walk, ohyeah, which I which I found
mentally much easier and I thinkit was I was better able to
cope with the temperatures itwas a good bit warmer in south
carolina and more humid as wellthan it was back home, sure,
yeah, so I was able to keep thatgoing.
At the end of lap three I justkind of got to this point of
(29:07):
feeling my stomach was reallyreally full of food and fluid
and I've been drinking probablykind of four 500ml bottles every
lap of the of the of the thing.
So, okay, I've been, I've beendrinking quite a bit, I've been
eating a lot of food as well ashaving a lot of nutrition in the
(29:27):
, in the drinks, and I just feltreally full and I thought and
at this point it was, it wassort of the heat of the day so I
thought, okay, I'm gonna, I'mgonna walk and try and you know,
start, start off the fourthloop with a walk and try and
manage it.
You know, kind of get my, geteverything kind of in order,
take some more salt tabs and andmanage it, and that that loop
(29:51):
was really hard, right up untilthe point of darkness, which was
probably about 12 miles, intothat, into that fourth loop, at
which point I was physicallysick.
Oh, half a dozen times.
Oh, on the on the front yardsof these really nice posh villas
, uh, overlooking the atlanticocean, wonderful, yeah, I'm sure
(30:12):
.
I'm sure the raccoons will havecleared it up in the middle of
the night yeah, yeah, yeahobviously, yes, for sure, and,
and, to be honest, being sickkind of really saved my race.
Interesting, because all of asudden I could, I could drink
again without and, and the, thefeeling of bloated, the feeling
of bloatedness and sloshingstomachs had all gone and I was,
(30:34):
I mean, I, I, I then had to do40 miles on, not very much, not
very much food, but, but atleast um, but at least I could
keep moving, which was the.
You know, the problem 12 monthsago was I wasn't able to be
sick, so, um, so, so I, I, I, Igot better from that point
onwards.
Loop five was still pretty, um,pretty slow, but then um.
(30:56):
But then loop six, I realizedthat if I ran a bit more, I
could finish just under 24 hours, which is a completely spurious
, utterly arbitrary distinction.
You know, there's no, there wasno kind of like super buckle
for finishing under 24 hours,but it just became a thing for
me, wow.
(31:16):
And so I kind of managed to do,of, managed to step up the
running a bit.
I lapped a whole bunch ofpeople midway through my sixth
loop and, yeah, kind of finished23.50.
Oh, good call, and was really,really pleased with that as an
outcome.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
I mean, I was three hours behind the guy in front of
me and I was totally okay withthat so at any point during
during all that like did, didthe did the cancer stuff ever
crossed your mind, or were youjust focused on the run?
Did the running take over therace?
Speaker 2 (31:51):
focus took over probably not, probably not the
cancer, but the, but the um, oneof the one of the one of the
side effects or consequencesmaybe of of prostate surgery is
incontinence, and so I'm runningthe entire race wearing a pad,
and I've got spare pads in mydrop bags and I've got another
(32:13):
one in my backpack and so so,and you're just always conscious
of the need to manage yourfluid intake a lot more smartly.
So it was more the kind ofdealing with the consequences of
the surgery rather than thethought about.
You know, I used to have cancer.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Yeah, okay.
Well, tell me about the finishline, then, because that must
have been representative of allof this effort everything's
happened, everything since capetown, all of the surgery, the
recovery, the training and therepairing the dnf from from last
year all rolled into one I I'mimagining at the finish line.
That was a pretty emotionalmoment maybe it was.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
But the overwhelming emotion was joy, right, this.
There wasn't a kind of a I hadno regrets, I had no feelings of
loss, I, I was just.
I was just full of joy for thefact that I had the opportunity
to be there.
And one of the reasons why I'vebeen so open with, with, with,
(33:13):
with my diagnosis, with thesurgery, with the recovery from
it, is because many men find outthat they've got prostate
cancer way later than theyshould and, like I was saying
before, if you, if you haveprostate cancer and you find it
in time, it's really not a badcancer to have you know, in the
scheme of things, if you had topick one, the because, because
(33:37):
you can, because surgery is a umis such a a good tool for
managing it.
You don't need your prostateanymore once you've had kids and
and it's it's, it's just a a, agreat.
The recovery options are, arekind of, are absolutely well
established.
But if you don't find it intime, you know, if you don't
find out until it's spread toyour bones or it's it's um, it's
(34:02):
it's escaped the prostate gland, then it can be, it can be
pretty dreadful.
So one of the reasons why I'vebeen so open about it is is
trying to encourage men to notbe useless men about it but be
alert.
Be alert to the symptoms.
If the, if you're offeredregular screening, take it and
(34:23):
and go talk.
Because I don't know about thestats of the us, but in the uk
they reckon one in eight menwill get prostate cancer wow and
um, and if you're, if you'reblack, it's one in four.
And so those, those stats speakfor themselves that men ought to
be a lot more alert to thisthan than many of them are, and
(34:43):
I think cancer is one of thosethings that happens.
Well, the way I perceived it,for me, anyway, was that cancer
was something that happened toother people, right?
Speaker 1 (34:53):
and until it happened to me that's wild, yeah, yeah,
and I think you, you know, justbefore coming on air too, we
were talking about the PSAtesting, the antigen test.
I guess I would assume that'spart of your message, like get
out there, and I assume that's apretty accessible test that you
might be able to get at yourlocal health center or GP or
(35:15):
whatever the equivalent is.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Yeah, In the UK they're moving towards.
They're actually moving towardsregular health screening of men
in their 50s and maybe blackmen in their late 40s as well.
For PSA, I don't know what it'slike in the.
I don't know anything about thehealth setup in the US, but
(35:37):
it's a simple blood test thatyou know kind of like you will
have any number of of otherthings yeah well, it will I'm
sure be, you know, kind ofreadily available everywhere.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Yeah, I, I would imagine it's.
It's not going to be toodifferent stat wise or
availability wise.
You, yes to to uh, to the ukthere.
But, um, definitely hear yourmessage.
You know I'm one of them.
I would.
I would say who's who's?
Not as proactive as I probablycould be about these kind of
things, but definitely hearingyour message about.
(36:10):
You know if, if you'relistening and you want to, you
know you recognize yourself inin any of stewart's comments
there definitely get out andmake sure you're getting the
appropriate testing for for thisand and other stuff too.
Like, just you know, whateverit is, get out and and make sure
you're getting the the, theappropriate testing done.
But do you think, stuart,you're, you know, has this
(36:31):
changed your outlook on on life,on running?
Are you kind of back where youstarted or do you have a
different perspective on on thisstuff?
Having been kind of back whereyou started, or do you have a
different perspective on on thisstuff having been through the
challenge that you have?
Speaker 2 (36:43):
uh, I'm probably a bit more kind of grateful for
the, you know kind of for thefact that I'm for the, for the
opportunities that I've got yeahI I'm, I've had a really
fortunate life so far andfrankly, this is just another
manifestation of that, of thatgood fortune.
I don't I don't choose to see itas kind of I've had bad luck.
I I regard it as I've had.
(37:04):
I've had good fortune that thatI work at a place that
basically forces me to go havethese health tests and um, and
will pay for the follow-ups andthe diagnoses and the treatments
and stuff like that.
So I'm going to try and it'salways hard, you know, when
you're in the depths of 100 mileor you know kind of, in your
(37:24):
case, 200 mile race, and youknow it's hard to.
It's hard sometimes to stay inthat moment, to stay present in
the moment, and it's hard toremind yourself that you, you
chose to do these things and andyou know you're lucky that you,
you're able to, because manywould love to and can't, but I
(37:47):
can at least try to rememberthose things yeah absolutely and
I think I wonder whether itmight be one of those, one of
those experiences that as youget further away from it, with
more hindsight, maybe some ofthe emotion and stuff comes a
bit later on.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
That I don't know, but I do think you're right.
I mean, physically, this seemslike something that was going to
happen, that you went and did,you were able to find this early
enough and kind of get it takencare of without it having a
huge amount of impact.
So I think that's terrific andI would definitely encourage
(38:26):
everybody out there to takeadvantage.
Get over to your local healthcenter.
Doctor primary care physicianis what they call them over here
, gp in the uk just go make sureyou're getting the appropriate
look.
See at what you've got going on, stewart.
What's next for you then?
Having got past the defuskyisland 100?
(38:47):
What else do you have on thetrails or beyond?
Speaker 2 (38:52):
yeah, so next race already in the diary has been
for a few months actually.
I'm running the um.
It's maybe a race you've heardof, the grand union canal race
oh, oh, my gosh.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Yeah, absolutely, that's on my list.
So so that's 145 miles.
Yeah, birmingham to london,right it?
Speaker 2 (39:10):
actually is the other way this year.
Oh, is it okay?
So so start in london finishing, finishing birmingham,
obviously completely flat, beinga cow entirely.
I mean there's a few locks andtunnels and stuff, but um how do
you find those races?
Speaker 1 (39:23):
because I know you and I raised cowboy together and
that was relatively flat andstraight right and and I've
always heard that canal runningis just like the worst.
Do you find the canal stylewhere we were doing doing
something similar on the railtrails over here in the us?
Do you find one or other morechallenging, or are you able to
(39:43):
kind of flip the script andyou're good with either?
Speaker 2 (39:47):
I think, um, I think I'm good with either.
So before ultra trials, capetown, I did canal corridor in
ohio, which is basically 50miles north into cleveland, turn
around and run 50 miles backsouth again along a, along a
disused canal, and it requires a, it requires a different
mindset.
(40:07):
You have to find a way of con.
I find I have to find a way ofconsciously building in walking
breaks yeah which, obviously ona mountainous one, you don't
have to, you don't have to worryabout right, you don't have to
worry about that.
so that's why, with the foskey,I intentionally from the you
know, from the outset decided Iwas gonna do run walk intervals
(40:28):
and I went for 28.2, on thebasis that I could always then
drop down to something a bitmore manageable like 9-1.
Right, Whereas I think if Istart at something like 9-1,
I've got nowhere to go fromthere other than just walking,
so that was the thought processfor me.
Then I'll do the same thing onthe Grand Union Canal.
(40:50):
That's a real low-key race.
I think you'd call it kind oflike dirtbag style in the US.
It's you get a, so these canalshave got.
This is a fully functionalcanal, right.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
And they've got kind of bathrooms and water taps for
the boat crews.
But you can get a key.
You can buy a key that enablesyou to access the water and the
bathrooms that are meant for theboat crews.
Interesting, and so that's.
That's basically what everyonedoes on this race is they.
They get these keys and thenthey, you know that's where they
, that's mostly where they'regoing to get their water from,
(41:31):
it's where they're going to goto the bathroom.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
It's how cool is that done through the race, or is
that something you can dowhether you're on the race or
not?
Speaker 2 (41:38):
uh, whether you're on the race or not, but the race
do organize the race.
Do have a whole bunch of keys.
They can, they can, they cansell you it's part of the
package.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Yeah, there's a couple of canal canal races over
there.
I know there's a liverpool tomanchester one and then there's
uh, there's another one, I thinkyeah thiseds to Liverpool.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
there's Kennet and Avon, so these are all kind of
100 mile plus digs like youmentioned you, you went and did
a canal.
I never knew there were canalsin the us.
I thought that was a uniquelyuk thing.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
But there are a few in the north yeah, they're most.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
They're mostly disused now, I think, as canal
they're not, they're most notmostly used as canals they're.
They're used as, um, you know,kind of for leisure at most.
And the the, the one that thecanal corridor race that I did,
I mean there's, there's almostno canal left.
Yeah, you know, you, you kindof like you run through the
middle of disused lock gates,for example, but it's still,
(42:44):
it's still quite, it's stillquite a cool course.
You run through the quayahogauh national park for for a good
chunk of it, which is, which isquite pretty.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
I've ran with a few folks that were telling me about
a different one.
I think it's called the C&OCanal Race.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Yeah, that's in Maryland, I think.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
Yeah, it's somewhere up north.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
That's on my list.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
one year yeah you know, but awesome.
So now, stuart, having been aprior guest on the show, you
will know that every individualwe have on here we do invite to
choose a song to add to the freeSpotify Choose to Endure
playlist.
Typically, it's something Idon't know family-friendly, that
lifts you up, motivates or justkeeps you moving while you're
(43:28):
out on the trail.
Did you choose a song thisgo-around and then?
If so, so why does that songparticularly resonate with you?
Speaker 2 (43:38):
so I I'm gonna go with titanium by david guetta
excellent song, I mean it's just.
It's just a good tub thumpingsong.
Yeah, actually it's got a kindof a work connotation as well.
One of the one of the majorbits of work I did was called
project titanium and that wasthat was.
That was a.
That was a hell of a piece ofwork.
Like what work?
(43:59):
Work for you, yeah, yeah.
Well, if I was a as anaccountant.
But I, you know the kind of the,you know you kind of like you
can shoot me down but I won'tfall, I'm, I'm, I'm bulletproof,
it's it.
It kind of it kind of workswhen I'm feeling a bit down in
the middle of a race.
Firstly, it's a kind of like agood upbeat song and it's just a
(44:20):
reminder that you can there'salmost everything on these races
you can get through if you'reable to put your mind to it.
Brilliant, sometimes that's alot easier said than done, but
um, as I I know I've I finished21.
Kind enough to call out thenumber of finishes, I'll point
(44:40):
out that my DNF rate stands atabout 18.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
I wasn't going to say that I was giving you the
credit for the 21.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
So I do know what it's like to kind of not be able
to see my way through to theend on some of these things.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Brilliant.
I think that's a great song andI'm going to add it to the
Spotify playlist, the Choose toEnjoy playlist.
I'm also going to add it to myown running playlist because I
feel like I may end up needingthat here fairly shortly just to
remind myself, as I'm somewherein the Arizona desert, halfway
up a mountain.
But I think it's great, and soI think others will love
(45:13):
listening to that tune as well.
Thank you for choosing it.
So you know, stuart, I thinkyour story really reminds us
that endurance is not alwaysjust about speed or podiums, or
even medals, for that matter.
I think sometimes it's justabout waking up and choosing to
keep going, even if you're goingthrough a difficult time
(45:35):
physically, emotionally,mentally, whatever it is.
And, listeners out there, ifyou took something from this
conversation, please share it.
And if you're over 50 or in oneof the risk groups that Stuart
was talking about, definitely goand get yourself that PSA test.
Don't wait, don't guess, justgo get it.
(45:56):
Stuart, thank you for yourvulnerability, your humor as
ever.
It's one of the things I lovetalking about with folks from
home the UK humor man I missthat sometimes for sure and for
showing us all what it trulymeans to endure.
If you're interested in morecontent like this, please don't
(46:16):
forget to subscribe to the showand that way you'll get notified
each time a new episode drops.
And if you're enjoying what youhear, be sure to follow, share
and maybe even leave a review.
That would mean the world to me.
Your support helps grow thepodcast, connects more runners
to this amazing community, thisultra community we have, and
(46:39):
spreads the word to those whocan benefit from the information
and stories we share right herewith fantastic ultra runners
like Stuart.
You can find us on Instagram andFacebook at Choose to Endure,
or visit us anytime atchoosetoendurecom on the web.
I would love to hear from you,whether that's just to say hello
(47:02):
, suggest a topic or share yourstory.
You can also email me directlyat info at choosetoendurecom.
I have to say, interacting withlisteners, just like you, is
one of my favorite parts ofdoing the show, so definitely
don't be shy about reaching out,especially, I think, if you're
(47:23):
in the UK.
I would love to get some moreUK content going on on the show
here.
So until next time, make sureyou run long, run strong, go get
a health check and, whateverthe results, make sure you keep
choosing to endure.
Well, hello and welcome again If this happens to
be your first time with us.
Thank you very much forstopping by.
You are listening to Choose toEndure the show dedicated to the
non-elite runners, where weshare stories, interviews, gear
and training tips specific tothe tail end heroes of the Ultra
(00:21):
Universe.
My name is Richard Gleave.
I have been running Ultras nowsince 2017.
I have taken on and finishednumerous distances, all the way
up through 220 miles, and I ammost definitely a member of the
back of the pack, just like manyof you out there.
(00:43):
Well, today I am super honoredto welcome back an individual
who may just have been actuallyone of the very first guests on
the show back in season one MrStuart Secker.
Now, stuart is a seasoned ultrarunner from the UK who's
tackled some pretty brutalcourses across both the US and
(01:04):
the UK, where he lives.
But this time we're not justtalking about racing
internationally.
We're going to talk aboutsomething a little bit bigger
too.
Eight months ago, stuart wasdiagnosed with prostate cancer.
Four months ago, he had surgeryand just 10 weeks after
(01:24):
resuming training, he completedhis 21st 100-mile race at the
and I may butcher this nameDaufuskie Island 100 in South
Carolina.
Now in the episode, we're goingto dive into the physical,
mental and emotional journey ofdiagnosis, recovery and comeback
(01:44):
, and what it means to trulyendure, not just on the trail
but in life.
It's raw, it's honestconversation and I think every
runner, particularly those of usin the back of the pack, can
find something meaningful in it.
So let's go Discover raw,inspiring stories from runners
(02:06):
who've been right where you are.
This is the Choose to EndureUltra Running Podcast With your
host he's English, notAustralian Richard Gleave.
All right, stuart, before wedive into your comeback and the
race itself, I just wanted tofirst of all welcome you to the
(02:29):
show again and to take you backto where this journey really
began Last year.
You're diagnosed with prostatecancer and everything changed,
from surgery to recovery torebuilding.
For listeners who might notknow that full story, I think
this was a pretty pivotal momentfor you.
Do you remember where you werewhen you first heard the
(02:53):
diagnosis?
What was that moment like foryou?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Hey Richard, yeah, it was some.
I guess the kind of thediagnosis was a buildup to it.
So I have a annual work medical, which I'm really fortunate to
have it's not a routine thinghere in the uk at all and that
pointed out an elevated level ofprostate specific antigen, psa.
(03:18):
We can probably talk a lotabout psa, and so off the back
of that they said we think youshould go and have a scan.
So I went and had an mri scanand that showed up something
that was maybe not quite right.
Well, it could be nothing couldbe, um, could be, could be a
problem right so you go and havea biopsy and so by the time you
(03:40):
get to the kind of the resultsof the biopsy and, stuart,
you've got cancer.
You've already mentallyprepared yourself a little bit
because you wouldn't have goneso far on that journey if it
wasn't a possibility right rightand so when I'm sat there in
the consulting room with myurologist and he, he gives me
the results of the biopsy.
(04:01):
It's it's not great news, butit's not a total shock either.
So I've had a bit of time toget myself ready.
For what, if that is the answer?
goodness me so you know, I Iwasn't sat there dumbstruck or
anything else, it was.
It was very much okay.
So what's next?
What do we do with that?
And he was really good actually.
(04:21):
He just said well, the firstthing you need to do is go and
read a whole bunch of stuff.
And he gave is go and read awhole bunch of stuff.
And he gave me a whole bunch ofstuff to read and some websites
to go look at and then saidcome back in a week's time and
we can have another chat aboutwhere we go from here.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Did you go through kind of a spectrum of emotions,
either by yourself at the houseor wherever, or did you move
straight to what is it I need todo?
How did you move straight towhat?
What is it I need to do?
How did you kind of?
How did it?
How did you get there?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I think I I went through that whole bargaining
acceptance thing really quicklyand it was just very much.
Okay, this is not great news,right, but but kind of like,
what do I do now?
there's no point in you know I II probably had more of the kind
of the why is this happening tome?
Thing once after the surgeryactually Okay, when I really did
(05:11):
get to a point of feeling a bitsorry for myself and I felt
very self-indulgent for doingthat, because fundamentally I
was a good news story.
My prostate cancer was caughtreally early.
It was all contained within thegland.
Your prostate is an organ that,once you've had kids, you can
basically live without.
(05:32):
It's not like having cancer ofthe brain or the liver or the
pancreas, where you obviouslycan't live without one of those
things.
So long as it's caught in time.
I felt one of the lucky onesand so I felt a bit
self-indulgent to feel sorry formyself.
But yeah that is just how I felt, but but at the time it was, it
was just kind of okay, here's aum, here's a hurdle, right,
(05:53):
what's uh?
What do we do about it?
Speaker 1 (05:55):
now is that?
Has that always been yourpersonality or do you feel like
like you've done a lot ofhundred mile races?
You know you dnf some.
You've succeeded in a lot.
Do you feel like those 100 mileraces and what you've gone
through in order to learn how tofinish those and and deal with
the emotional and physical stuffthere, did that help you?
Do you think, or has that justbeen your personality and your
(06:17):
personality has helped you hereand on the hundreds?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
my hunch is it's probably the latter.
I mean, I'd love to think thatkind kind of running 100 mile
races has made me bulletproof,but kind of you know, I've got
the DNF record to show that.
Ain't true, being in the momentand, uh, being present in the
(06:46):
moment and and solving theproblem that's right in front of
you is probably key to successin in ultra running, like like,
like you know, and I think thatthat definitely helped also yeah
deal with the deal with the.
You know the, the news lastsummer did you have any warning
signs?
Speaker 1 (07:01):
looking back with, with hindsight, do you feel like
there was anything there thatwould have alerted you, physical
or otherwise, that somethingmay be off?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
no, not really.
I mean, men of our agedefinitely should keep an eye
out for for those, for the sortsof symptoms that go with
prostate cancer.
They're they're privatesymptoms and so people often
don't want to talk about them,sometimes don't go and see their
doctor when they should,because you know it's basically
(07:32):
problems with, you know, kind ofgoing to the toilet or having
sex, right.
So these are things many mendon't want to talk about because
basically men are rubbish.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
But, as it happens for me, I didn't have any of
those symptoms.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
It was literally a routine medical check that
caught it really early, so youhad no no kind of prior prior
thought.
Yeah, yeah, and then I and youtold me this just before we got
on air here.
So I think we've got to talkabout this too, because, having
received the diagnosis, you'veworked through some of the
mental and emotional stuff.
You're trying to figure outwhat you're doing here.
(08:07):
Two weeks prior to surgery, yougo and run the Ultra Trail Cape
Town 100-mile race.
Yeah, now, folks, if you don'tknow much about this race, this
is a pretty darn tough race.
There's, like I want to say,25,000 feet.
What is that, stuart?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
It's about kind of 7,500 meters, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yeah, I mean, this is not an easy race.
And so you have cancer, youhaven't gone for the surgery yet
, you're still dealing with someof this and you're off running
the Ultra Trail Cape Town 100.
So walk us through that.
Was that something you hadalready previously planned,
presumably, and you chose tokeep doing that, knowing that
(08:52):
you had prostate cancer.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, I booked it once I'd had the diagnosis, but
before I decided that surgerywas the right answer for me, wow
.
But when I did reach thedecision on surgery, it then
became, I think, really a youknow kind of.
I was mindful that it could bea send-off, the surgery.
You know you're under generalanaesthetic.
(09:15):
Bad stuff can happen and younever know what you're going to
find, and so it was not likely,but it was definitely possible,
that this would be it for 100mile races, and so I wanted to
really go out with a bang.
I wanted to do something reallyspecial, and there's no doubt
that running 100 miler in CapeTown is an incredibly special
(09:37):
thing to do.
I mean, more cities should justhave mountains right outside
them, yeah Right.
And literally you go up and downtable mountain, I don't know,
kind of four or five times, andit's like a 3 000 foot mountain
that stretches from the you know, from the ocean, to the to the
summit, and the trail is gnarlyas hell.
And you've got I.
(09:58):
I had to go past a pack ofbaboons that were literally
within touching distance, at theside of the trail kind of, and
the baby looked pretty cute, butthe daddies looked pretty mean
good grief and you know that'sthat.
That's that's just what you umthat either.
That's what you deal with onthat, on that course and it was,
it was a special place to goand it was a special race to do
(10:19):
and I I mean it's a hard rockqualifier.
For a reason, when I crossedthat finish line, I was in
floods of tears.
Firstly, I'd put in 44 hours ofeffort to get to that finish
line.
It was a big old race, but alsoit was okay.
(10:47):
So maybe this is my swan song.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
If it is, I've just had an amazing two days.
Wow, was that on your mindthrough the race then?
Or were you able to just focuson the race and then it sort of
all hit there at the finish yeah, I didn't really dare to think
about finishing until maybe 10miles from the end.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
you, you know, once I got through the last aid
station and had enough time youknow, I had something like four
hours to do the last 10 miles Ithought, okay, I've got this.
And that was the point at whichI started to think about
finishing.
And then what's next?
Up until that point I was juststruggling to make it to the
next checkpoint before it closed, and not necessarily because of
(11:25):
the cancer, but because, as ahard flipping race, it's, it's a
, it's a, it's a, it's a damnedhard, it's a damned hard race.
It really really is.
As I say, it's, it's a hardrock qualifier.
For a reason it's the only hardrock qualifier on on the
african continent and there's a.
There's a whole festival ofraces around it and it's a
really international field aswell.
(11:45):
I mean, I met a guy fromflorida who was there to to bag
a hard rock qualifier.
So you know, you've got peopleflying from all over the world
to to run in this on this race,just because it's so wonderful
yeah, it's a long way fromleatherhead too to uh yeah it's
even further from florida.
To be fair, I'm sure it is, yeahso I just so you mentioned
(12:09):
baboons.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Were there any other like cool animals like what?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
I have the impression that baboons are quite testy,
yeah, yeah, I mean, when you'vegot a pack of baboons and and,
um, I know there's like 20 or soof them and you know they're
kind of, and you know they'rekind of the, as I say, they're
kind of the babies were sat on alittle wall by the trail and
they look pretty cute, but thenthey're kind of the daddies kind
of like sauntered into themiddle of the trail and happily
(12:36):
I had my poles out at this timeso I could just sort of like,
kind of like wave my poles inthe big guy's faces and they
decided that I could probably gopast.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Wow, how big are we talking?
I have no idea how big a baboonis.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, so they ain't gorilla-sized or anything.
They're probably kind of a bitbigger than chimps.
They're mean enough and withbad enough teeth Big enough,
yeah.
Especially when there's a packof them right, if they wanted to
take you down, they reallycould.
Good grief, wow, I mean therewas a.
There was a kind of a meanlooking snake as well, but kind
of to americans, that sort ofyou know man I I've I've run
(13:15):
with gators and bison.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Bison are pretty mean too, especially in calf season.
Those are massive animals andwe're about to go run with some
interesting snakes.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
So but never a baboon that's.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
That's a new one to me, so yeah but nonetheless a
fantastic job.
Getting through the ultra trailcape town.
I would think that's probably acancer aside for a moment,
that's probably a really goodsort of destination race to, uh,
oh, completely look out for forfolks if they're looking for a
different environment, some, youknow, a change of run.
Oh, completely yeah.
(13:49):
So then two weeks later you'rein and having surgery.
Yeah and so so, yeah, how Iassume the surgery went well.
How was the recovery from thesurgery?
Was it slow going and what?
What was on your mind comingout of that surgery?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
yeah, so, so, um.
So the surgery, they obviouslythey remove the prostate.
The prostate is wrapped aroundthe um urethra.
That's the, that's the tubethat takes uh, goes between the
bladder and and the outsideworld.
So you've got a.
Whilst that heals, you've got acatheter in for 10 days.
That's not pleasant at all.
(14:30):
And so your mobility is prettyrestricted.
All prostate surgery these daysis basically done as
robot-assisted oh really, wow.
So they kind of put theselittle holes in the side of your
stomach and the sort of therobot arms kind of go into to,
kind of to do the cutting andstitching together and stuff,
(14:51):
and then there's a kind of aprobably a two-inch cut right by
your belly button, which iswhere they take the prostate out
from.
And so the most notable thingreally, once you're out, apart
from the catheter, is thatessentially they've just taken a
two-inch slice right down themiddle of your core.
And obviously, as runners, weknow the importance of the core,
(15:13):
right, yeah, but I had no realidea that it was so essential
even for sitting upright in achair with a back and arms Wow.
Upright in a chair with a with aback and arms wow, and by one
two o'clock in the afternoon, Iwould be in so much discomfort
from from that from my core thatbasically just been ripped,
(15:36):
ripped in half for this surgery,that I just have to lie down.
I mean, there was no, there wasno alternative.
Even even sitting up in bedwasn't really an option.
I had to lie down and thislasted for a good like four or
five weeks of just not able.
(15:56):
You know I was able to get outand walk as long as I did it in
the morning, because by the timethe afternoon came it was just
too painful to do anything butjust basically lie down on the
couch and watch box sets.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Was there any point at all in there where you were
thinking, okay, I don't know howI'm ever going to do running
again here.
When does that come back?
How is that going to come back?
Did you have a doubt that youwould kind of get back to it?
Did you always expect to comeback?
It was just a matter of time?
Speaker 2 (16:30):
I mean I.
I talked to my surgeon about itand he said oh, you should be
able to start jogging after fourweeks.
My physiotherapist was like no,no, no, no, no, six weeks at
the most, ah, so, so so I diddecide to err on the side of
caution and listen to the listento the physio.
Yeah, there are probably a fewmoments, especially with the
(16:51):
castor in, where and where youjust thought I don't know the
way back from here.
I was really helped by.
I chatted to a guy, robin,before surgery.
He's a, a coaching client of afriend of my coach, okay, and
he'd been through the surgerythree years before and had
gotten back to running thelakeland hundred like six weeks
(17:13):
after surgery in an amazing time, and so I thought, okay, is you
know, kind of he's a betterathlete than I am, but maybe
it's possible, right yeah and Ihad this race to defusky island
I think you pronounced it okayin in in the calendar anyways
and um, and I thought, okay,that can be my, you know that
(17:34):
can, that can be my focus if I,if I take six weeks off running
but try and do some aerobicexercise, some walking, maybe
sitting on an exercise bike no,actually I didn't do that.
That's a bad idea, uh.
But do so, do some, do somewalking and maybe do some kind
of body weight squats and stuff.
Then for six weeks and thenkind of 10 weeks of running.
(17:55):
Maybe I can, maybe I can getaround it.
At least I can give it a go.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
I love that attitude and yeah, yeah, I would agree.
I think sometimes it's justabout belief.
When you hear and talk tosomeone who's done it, who is in
your situation, suddenly youfeel like, oh well, it can be
done.
If they can do it, maybe I cando it too.
And that gives you that push tobelieve you can.
So I assume you did your squatsand whatnot.
(18:21):
But what did those first runsfeel like, did it?
Did it feel kind of weird?
Was there any lasting impact?
Speaker 2 (18:27):
yeah, first, first time I went out, um, I, uh, I, I
persuaded my wife to go with me.
She, she, she does run, butkind of she, she's perfectly
happy doing kind of 11, 12minute mile pace yeah and so,
and so it was a.
It was a.
I thought this is the best wayof me not getting ahead of
myself is to go out with her andum, and and it was.
(18:47):
It was hard, like you'd expect.
I mean, if you've not, ifyou've not run for six weeks or
not done any exercise at all forsix weeks, it's definitely
going to be hard to get out andrun, even if it's, even if
you're just doing three, fourmiles, and then you've got the
surgery piece on top as well.
But yeah, I found it reallytiring.
I also found bits of my kneesand ankles and stuff hurt
(19:12):
because they hadn't been used todoing it.
They haven't been used to doinganything for six, seven weeks.
So, um, so it was really for methen a question of trying to
calibrate my return to runningat the at the level of the
weakest part, because I feellike you've got so many
different parts with running.
You've got your ankle strength,your knee strength, you've got
(19:35):
your kind of your muscles,you've got your aerobic fitness,
I've got my core kind of stillwith a kind of big scar down the
middle and you know kind ofstill injury.
Surgery is injury, all right.
So you kind of still got thatkind of the wound inside that's
healing, and it was about tryingto calibrate to the weakest
part, not the strongest partright because it would be easy
(19:57):
to get ahead of yourself,because you think, oh yeah, my
aerobic fitness hasn't droppedoff that much.
I can, I can, I can kind of goand bash out a tempo session and
and that would be a very quickway to get injured.
Yes, so, um, so, so that's um,so, so it was.
It was.
It was a really kind of slowand steady buildup in the
(20:19):
mileage over those first eightweeks.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Did you have any fear of sort of pushing too hard?
I know you mentioned it alittle bit there, but just sort
of like.
It seems like you weredeliberately being slow in your
return, so to speak.
But was there ever a time whereyou were like this might be too
much?
Speaker 2 (20:40):
speak, but was there ever a time when you were like
this might be too much?
Yeah, the first time I did 20miles in my post-op and I got to
the end and I and I felt rinsed.
I thought, oh goodness, I don't, I wouldn't really fancy doing
another 80 miles at this pointoh, welcome to my world.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, that's just my.
My standard that is stew.
I'm glad you can appreciatewhere some of us are at.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
but my, my strategy for this race in in in south
carolina was always to do run,walk right from the right from
the get-go, and so that's what Ibuilt into my training and and
I tried to build a good level offueling into my training at
that pace as well, and I got tothe point where I was confident
(21:22):
I would get far enough in thatif I had to walk out the rest, I
would be okay.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
And walking was okay, like you didn't have a
challenge with walking.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
It was really just the running piece that was the
challenge at that point.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Yeah, yeah okay, so then why?
So we talked about theDaufuskie Island, if that's how
we're saying it?
I don't know.
You probably know, as peoplelive there probably are able to
pronounce that much better thanmyself.
Anyway, you had the DaufuskieIsland 100 on your calendar.
Why?
I mean, that seems like a racethat's a long way away from
Leatherhead, near London.
Why that race for your returnto running?
Speaker 2 (21:59):
So I DNF'd it 12 months ago.
Ah, right, right, it was aninaugural race in 2024.
And I DNF'd it.
I got to 60 miles and my gutswere complete and utter shambles
.
I could barely walk, wow.
And so, as soon as it opened up,I, um, I, I, I put myself back
(22:22):
in for a repeat visit, and thiswas this is before I had any
inkling that I might have cancer.
And then um, and then when thethen, when the diagnosis did
come up, and when the, when thesurgery became an option and I
was starting to think aboutdates for the surgery, it became
obvious this was a, this was arace that I could go back to.
I didn't need to cancel it.
(22:43):
I could.
You know that I had enough timeto um to recover from this.
I had enough time, in theoryanyway, to recover from the
surgery.
To do was to do the Cape Townrace to have the surgery and to
then recover from the surgery,to then do, then do the race in
in south carolina.
And so it.
It went from a.
I just want to go back and kindof not not leave that dnf on my
(23:06):
um on my record to.
This is the.
You know, this is going to bethe focus point for for me, for
for those 10 weeks of, or 16weeks of, post-op recovery, a
triumphant return, almost, and Iwas so.
I was so.
I was so pleased to have thatalready in the diary, because
otherwise I might have worriedabout booking something.
(23:27):
But having already booked it,it then just became a something
that could motivate me to getout, even when I felt a bit
uncomfortable, like a big focalpoint to shoot back for, which I
think is great and probably areally good thing in hindsight.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
So tell us a little bit about the Daufuskie Island.
What is the course like?
Terrain, atmosphere, I wouldn'timagine it was much like what
you left behind in Cape Town.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
No, no, no, it's the other end of the spectrum.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
So it's a great race and I would heartily recommend
people looking for a race downin um, down in the southeastern
uh, united states, to to give ita check out it.
The fusky island is a, um is ais a fairly small island.
It's um.
There's no bridge there.
You have to get a, you have toget a boat to get to the island
(24:21):
from the mainland and it's not abig boat either and you know
you're traveling through thesound and you've got all these
dolphins showing off around youas you get this boat over to the
island.
And there's not many cars on theisland.
Most people drive around ingolf carts on dirt roads and
(24:43):
there's loads of wildlife on theisland, lots of, lots of
armadillos.
You've got two and a half milesof it is on of.
Every lap is on a beach.
So the the race is a is six16.7 mile laps right of the
island and part of that loop isyou've got two and a half miles
of an out and back on a on abeach.
(25:03):
That's basically.
Then you've got atlantic oceanright, right in front of you and
it's um, uh.
At high tide you've got notmuch beach.
At low tide you've got amassive amount of beach.
Yeah yeah and at night time allthese crabs come out and start
kind of scuttling all over thescuttling all over the beach,
and it's really just quite areally magical place.
(25:24):
There's no hotels on the islandeither, so you can either get a
rental or I just camped by thestart-finish line.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
How did you bring the gear for that?
What gear did you have to camp?
Speaker 2 (25:37):
So I brought over a tent, sleeping bag, roll mat, a
little kind of a little campchair.
I brought over a stove.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
So you flew over with that and then took it on a boat
over to the island.
Yeah, wow, that's prettyinteresting.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Yeah, and I sat there at six in the morning.
Race started at seven.
I sat there at six in themorning, made myself a cup of
tea, like a true Englishman,Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
I started at seven.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
I sat there at six in the morning, made myself a cup
of tea like a true Englishman,Absolutely yeah and had some
rehydrated scrambled eggs thatI'd cooked up in my jet boil.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Look at you all proper camping out at the start
finish line.
There I need to up my game.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
And it was just a kind of a great all-round
experience.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
So did you go into the race then, when the race
kicked off?
Well, first of all, how wereyou feeling at the start line of
that race?
Having been through all of thethings you've been through,
what's going through your headat the moments before the start
of that 100-miler?
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Well, so actually I was five minutes late to the
start line, even though I wascamping by the start line,
that's hard to do.
Good job, yeah.
Yeah, I'd left not enough timeto put some sunscreen on and um
and uh and all that stuff, butand and anyway, so kind of.
So I set off, I was literallyon my own because I was five
(26:51):
minutes late and I just, I justset off with a vision of, okay,
I'm gonna do 28 minutes ofjogging, two minutes of walking.
During those two minutes I'mgonna eat something.
Yeah, and I'm gonna do 28minutes of jogging, two minutes
of walking.
During those two minutes I'mgonna eat something yeah and I'm
just gonna keep that up for um,for as that, that up for as,
for as long as I, for as long asI can, and obviously starting
five minutes after everyone.
You know the kind of the Iwasn't tempted to kind of like
(27:14):
run off too fast, I could stickto my own plan and um, and
gradually just kind of catchpeople up as I am.
Yeah, five minutes in thescheme of a hundred mile race is
is nothing right, not muchright, you know.
So, so kind of I could just letuh, there was no pressure to
sort of run off with the frontrunners or or any of that sort
of nonsense.
I could just stick to, you know, run my own race right from the
(27:37):
start and then just graduallypass people as I went along.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
And how many runners were there.
Stewart is this?
Was this a big?
A big field or a small field?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
like no, uh uh so there were maybe 20 doing the
100.
They do a 50 at the same time.
So there was right again, maybe10, 15, doing the, doing the 50
right, so off you've got.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
You know you've got off the start line five minutes
late in classic style there Leteverybody go and then chase them
down.
I like it, I like your approach.
Definitely better to passpeople than to be passed.
So I think mentally that's agreat strategy.
So how did your race plan out?
How did your loops go?
I would imagine it's probably16 miles, so roughly six loops
(28:18):
or something like that.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
That's right.
Yeah, six laps yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
So.
So how did your race pan out?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
so yeah, so first first two.
Absolutely fine, kept to.
The program was prettyconsistent time wise between the
two.
So I finished the first one inlike three hours, the second one
in maybe three hours and ten ofum of moving time.
It then starts to get a bit warmso I so I dropped down from
(28:44):
28.2 to 9.1 on the run walk, ohyeah, which I which I found
mentally much easier and I thinkit was I was better able to
cope with the temperatures itwas a good bit warmer in south
carolina and more humid as wellthan it was back home, sure,
yeah, so I was able to keep thatgoing.
At the end of lap three I justkind of got to this point of
(29:07):
feeling my stomach was reallyreally full of food and fluid
and I've been drinking probablykind of four 500ml bottles every
lap of the of the of the thing.
So, okay, I've been, I've beendrinking quite a bit, I've been
eating a lot of food as well ashaving a lot of nutrition in the
(29:27):
, in the drinks, and I just feltreally full and I thought and
at this point it was, it wassort of the heat of the day so I
thought, okay, I'm gonna, I'mgonna walk and try and you know,
start, start off the fourthloop with a walk and try and
manage it.
You know, kind of get my, geteverything kind of in order,
take some more salt tabs and andmanage it, and that that loop
(29:51):
was really hard, right up untilthe point of darkness, which was
probably about 12 miles, intothat, into that fourth loop, at
which point I was physicallysick.
Oh, half a dozen times.
Oh, on the on the front yardsof these really nice posh villas
, uh, overlooking the atlanticocean, wonderful, yeah, I'm sure
(30:12):
.
I'm sure the raccoons will havecleared it up in the middle of
the night yeah, yeah, yeahobviously, yes, for sure, and,
and, to be honest, being sickkind of really saved my race.
Interesting, because all of asudden I could, I could drink
again without and, and the, thefeeling of bloated, the feeling
of bloatedness and sloshingstomachs had all gone and I was,
(30:34):
I mean, I, I, I then had to do40 miles on, not very much, not
very much food, but, but atleast um, but at least I could
keep moving, which was the.
You know, the problem 12 monthsago was I wasn't able to be
sick, so, um, so, so I, I, I, Igot better from that point
onwards.
Loop five was still pretty, um,pretty slow, but then um.
(30:56):
But then loop six, I realizedthat if I ran a bit more, I
could finish just under 24 hours, which is a completely spurious
, utterly arbitrary distinction.
You know, there's no, there wasno kind of like super buckle
for finishing under 24 hours,but it just became a thing for
me, wow.
(31:16):
And so I kind of managed to do,of, managed to step up the
running a bit.
I lapped a whole bunch ofpeople midway through my sixth
loop and, yeah, kind of finished23.50.
Oh, good call, and was really,really pleased with that as an
outcome.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
I mean, I was three hours behind the guy in front of
me and I was totally okay withthat so at any point during
during all that like did, didthe did the cancer stuff ever
crossed your mind, or were youjust focused on the run?
Did the running take over therace?
Speaker 2 (31:51):
focus took over probably not, probably not the
cancer, but the, but the um, oneof the one of the one of the
side effects or consequencesmaybe of of prostate surgery is
incontinence, and so I'm runningthe entire race wearing a pad,
and I've got spare pads in mydrop bags and I've got another
(32:13):
one in my backpack and so so,and you're just always conscious
of the need to manage yourfluid intake a lot more smartly.
So it was more the kind ofdealing with the consequences of
the surgery rather than thethought about.
You know, I used to have cancer.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Yeah, okay.
Well, tell me about the finishline, then, because that must
have been representative of allof this effort everything's
happened, everything since capetown, all of the surgery, the
recovery, the training and therepairing the dnf from from last
year all rolled into one I I'mimagining at the finish line.
That was a pretty emotionalmoment maybe it was.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
But the overwhelming emotion was joy, right, this.
There wasn't a kind of a I hadno regrets, I had no feelings of
loss, I, I was just.
I was just full of joy for thefact that I had the opportunity
to be there.
And one of the reasons why I'vebeen so open with, with, with,
(33:13):
with my diagnosis, with thesurgery, with the recovery from
it, is because many men find outthat they've got prostate
cancer way later than theyshould and, like I was saying
before, if you, if you haveprostate cancer and you find it
in time, it's really not a badcancer to have you know, in the
scheme of things, if you had topick one, the because, because
(33:37):
you can, because surgery is a umis such a a good tool for
managing it.
You don't need your prostateanymore once you've had kids and
and it's it's, it's just a a, agreat.
The recovery options are, arekind of, are absolutely well
established.
But if you don't find it intime, you know, if you don't
find out until it's spread toyour bones or it's it's um, it's
(34:02):
it's escaped the prostate gland, then it can be, it can be
pretty dreadful.
So one of the reasons why I'vebeen so open about it is is
trying to encourage men to notbe useless men about it but be
alert.
Be alert to the symptoms.
If the, if you're offeredregular screening, take it and
(34:23):
and go talk.
Because I don't know about thestats of the us, but in the uk
they reckon one in eight menwill get prostate cancer wow and
um, and if you're, if you'reblack, it's one in four.
And so those, those stats speakfor themselves that men ought to
be a lot more alert to thisthan than many of them are, and
(34:43):
I think cancer is one of thosethings that happens.
Well, the way I perceived it,for me, anyway, was that cancer
was something that happened toother people, right?
Speaker 1 (34:53):
and until it happened to me that's wild, yeah, yeah,
and I think you, you know, justbefore coming on air too, we
were talking about the PSAtesting, the antigen test.
I guess I would assume that'spart of your message, like get
out there, and I assume that's apretty accessible test that you
might be able to get at yourlocal health center or GP or
(35:15):
whatever the equivalent is.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Yeah, In the UK they're moving towards.
They're actually moving towardsregular health screening of men
in their 50s and maybe blackmen in their late 40s as well.
For PSA, I don't know what it'slike in the.
I don't know anything about thehealth setup in the US, but
(35:37):
it's a simple blood test thatyou know kind of like you will
have any number of of otherthings yeah well, it will I'm
sure be, you know, kind ofreadily available everywhere.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Yeah, I, I would imagine it's.
It's not going to be toodifferent stat wise or
availability wise.
You, yes to to uh, to the ukthere.
But, um, definitely hear yourmessage.
You know I'm one of them.
I would.
I would say who's who's?
Not as proactive as I probablycould be about these kind of
things, but definitely hearingyour message about.
(36:10):
You know if, if you'relistening and you want to, you
know you recognize yourself inin any of stewart's comments
there definitely get out andmake sure you're getting the
appropriate testing for for thisand and other stuff too.
Like, just you know, whateverit is, get out and and make sure
you're getting the the, theappropriate testing done.
But do you think, stuart,you're, you know, has this
(36:31):
changed your outlook on on life,on running?
Are you kind of back where youstarted or do you have a
different perspective on on thisstuff?
Having been kind of back whereyou started, or do you have a
different perspective on on thisstuff having been through the
challenge that you have?
Speaker 2 (36:43):
uh, I'm probably a bit more kind of grateful for
the, you know kind of for thefact that I'm for the, for the
opportunities that I've got yeahI I'm, I've had a really
fortunate life so far andfrankly, this is just another
manifestation of that, of thatgood fortune.
I don't I don't choose to see itas kind of I've had bad luck.
I I regard it as I've had.
(37:04):
I've had good fortune that thatI work at a place that
basically forces me to go havethese health tests and um, and
will pay for the follow-ups andthe diagnoses and the treatments
and stuff like that.
So I'm going to try and it'salways hard, you know, when
you're in the depths of 100 mileor you know kind of, in your
(37:24):
case, 200 mile race, and youknow it's hard to.
It's hard sometimes to stay inthat moment, to stay present in
the moment, and it's hard toremind yourself that you, you
chose to do these things and andyou know you're lucky that you,
you're able to, because manywould love to and can't, but I
(37:47):
can at least try to rememberthose things yeah absolutely and
I think I wonder whether itmight be one of those, one of
those experiences that as youget further away from it, with
more hindsight, maybe some ofthe emotion and stuff comes a
bit later on.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
That I don't know, but I do think you're right.
I mean, physically, this seemslike something that was going to
happen, that you went and did,you were able to find this early
enough and kind of get it takencare of without it having a
huge amount of impact.
So I think that's terrific andI would definitely encourage
(38:26):
everybody out there to takeadvantage.
Get over to your local healthcenter.
Doctor primary care physicianis what they call them over here
, gp in the uk just go make sureyou're getting the appropriate
look.
See at what you've got going on, stewart.
What's next for you then?
Having got past the defuskyisland 100?
(38:47):
What else do you have on thetrails or beyond?
Speaker 2 (38:52):
yeah, so next race already in the diary has been
for a few months actually.
I'm running the um.
It's maybe a race you've heardof, the grand union canal race
oh, oh, my gosh.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Yeah, absolutely, that's on my list.
So so that's 145 miles.
Yeah, birmingham to london,right it?
Speaker 2 (39:10):
actually is the other way this year.
Oh, is it okay?
So so start in london finishing, finishing birmingham,
obviously completely flat, beinga cow entirely.
I mean there's a few locks andtunnels and stuff, but um how do
you find those races?
Speaker 1 (39:23):
because I know you and I raised cowboy together and
that was relatively flat andstraight right and and I've
always heard that canal runningis just like the worst.
Do you find the canal stylewhere we were doing doing
something similar on the railtrails over here in the us?
Do you find one or other morechallenging, or are you able to
(39:43):
kind of flip the script andyou're good with either?
Speaker 2 (39:47):
I think, um, I think I'm good with either.
So before ultra trials, capetown, I did canal corridor in
ohio, which is basically 50miles north into cleveland, turn
around and run 50 miles backsouth again along a, along a
disused canal, and it requires a, it requires a different
mindset.
(40:07):
You have to find a way of con.
I find I have to find a way ofconsciously building in walking
breaks yeah which, obviously ona mountainous one, you don't
have to, you don't have to worryabout right, you don't have to
worry about that.
so that's why, with the foskey,I intentionally from the you
know, from the outset decided Iwas gonna do run walk intervals
(40:28):
and I went for 28.2, on thebasis that I could always then
drop down to something a bitmore manageable like 9-1.
Right, Whereas I think if Istart at something like 9-1,
I've got nowhere to go fromthere other than just walking,
so that was the thought processfor me.
Then I'll do the same thing onthe Grand Union Canal.
(40:50):
That's a real low-key race.
I think you'd call it kind oflike dirtbag style in the US.
It's you get a, so these canalshave got.
This is a fully functionalcanal, right.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
And they've got kind of bathrooms and water taps for
the boat crews.
But you can get a key.
You can buy a key that enablesyou to access the water and the
bathrooms that are meant for theboat crews.
Interesting, and so that's.
That's basically what everyonedoes on this race is they.
They get these keys and thenthey, you know that's where they
, that's mostly where they'regoing to get their water from,
(41:31):
it's where they're going to goto the bathroom.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
It's how cool is that done through the race, or is
that something you can dowhether you're on the race or
not?
Speaker 2 (41:38):
uh, whether you're on the race or not, but the race
do organize the race.
Do have a whole bunch of keys.
They can, they can, they cansell you it's part of the
package.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Yeah, there's a couple of canal canal races over
there.
I know there's a liverpool tomanchester one and then there's
uh, there's another one, I thinkyeah thiseds to Liverpool.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
there's Kennet and Avon, so these are all kind of
100 mile plus digs like youmentioned you, you went and did
a canal.
I never knew there were canalsin the us.
I thought that was a uniquelyuk thing.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
But there are a few in the north yeah, they're most.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
They're mostly disused now, I think, as canal
they're not, they're most notmostly used as canals they're.
They're used as, um, you know,kind of for leisure at most.
And the the, the one that thecanal corridor race that I did,
I mean there's, there's almostno canal left.
Yeah, you know, you, you kindof like you run through the
middle of disused lock gates,for example, but it's still,
(42:44):
it's still quite, it's stillquite a cool course.
You run through the quayahogauh national park for for a good
chunk of it, which is, which isquite pretty.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
I've ran with a few folks that were telling me about
a different one.
I think it's called the C&OCanal Race.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Yeah, that's in Maryland, I think.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
Yeah, it's somewhere up north.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
That's on my list.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
one year yeah you know, but awesome.
So now, stuart, having been aprior guest on the show, you
will know that every individualwe have on here we do invite to
choose a song to add to the freeSpotify Choose to Endure
playlist.
Typically, it's something Idon't know family-friendly, that
lifts you up, motivates or justkeeps you moving while you're
(43:28):
out on the trail.
Did you choose a song thisgo-around and then?
If so, so why does that songparticularly resonate with you?
Speaker 2 (43:38):
so I I'm gonna go with titanium by david guetta
excellent song, I mean it's just.
It's just a good tub thumpingsong.
Yeah, actually it's got a kindof a work connotation as well.
One of the one of the majorbits of work I did was called
project titanium and that wasthat was.
That was a.
That was a hell of a piece ofwork.
Like what work?
(43:59):
Work for you, yeah, yeah.
Well, if I was a as anaccountant.
But I, you know the kind of the,you know you kind of like you
can shoot me down but I won'tfall, I'm, I'm, I'm bulletproof,
it's it.
It kind of it kind of workswhen I'm feeling a bit down in
the middle of a race.
Firstly, it's a kind of like agood upbeat song and it's just a
(44:20):
reminder that you can there'salmost everything on these races
you can get through if you'reable to put your mind to it.
Brilliant, sometimes that's alot easier said than done, but
um, as I I know I've I finished21.
Kind enough to call out thenumber of finishes, I'll point
(44:40):
out that my DNF rate stands atabout 18.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
I wasn't going to say that I was giving you the
credit for the 21.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
So I do know what it's like to kind of not be able
to see my way through to theend on some of these things.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Brilliant.
I think that's a great song andI'm going to add it to the
Spotify playlist, the Choose toEnjoy playlist.
I'm also going to add it to myown running playlist because I
feel like I may end up needingthat here fairly shortly just to
remind myself, as I'm somewherein the Arizona desert, halfway
up a mountain.
But I think it's great, and soI think others will love
(45:13):
listening to that tune as well.
Thank you for choosing it.
So you know, stuart, I thinkyour story really reminds us
that endurance is not alwaysjust about speed or podiums, or
even medals, for that matter.
I think sometimes it's justabout waking up and choosing to
keep going, even if you're goingthrough a difficult time
(45:35):
physically, emotionally,mentally, whatever it is.
And, listeners out there, ifyou took something from this
conversation, please share it.
And if you're over 50 or in oneof the risk groups that Stuart
was talking about, definitely goand get yourself that PSA test.
Don't wait, don't guess, justgo get it.
(45:56):
Stuart, thank you for yourvulnerability, your humor as
ever.
It's one of the things I lovetalking about with folks from
home the UK humor man I missthat sometimes for sure and for
showing us all what it trulymeans to endure.
If you're interested in morecontent like this, please don't
(46:16):
forget to subscribe to the showand that way you'll get notified
each time a new episode drops.
And if you're enjoying what youhear, be sure to follow, share
and maybe even leave a review.
That would mean the world to me.
Your support helps grow thepodcast, connects more runners
to this amazing community, thisultra community we have, and
(46:39):
spreads the word to those whocan benefit from the information
and stories we share right herewith fantastic ultra runners
like Stuart.
You can find us on Instagram andFacebook at Choose to Endure,
or visit us anytime atchoosetoendurecom on the web.
I would love to hear from you,whether that's just to say hello
(47:02):
, suggest a topic or share yourstory.
You can also email me directlyat info at choosetoendurecom.
I have to say, interacting withlisteners, just like you, is
one of my favorite parts ofdoing the show, so definitely
don't be shy about reaching out,especially, I think, if you're
(47:23):
in the UK.
I would love to get some moreUK content going on on the show
here.
So until next time, make sureyou run long, run strong, go get
a health check and, whateverthe results, make sure you keep
choosing to endure.
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