April 7, 2025 • 52 mins
When Glenn McRill toed the starting line at Grasslands 100, he carried years of experience as a marathon runner and Director of Coaching for the San Antonio RoadRunners—but faced the daunting reality of attempting his first 100-mile race with less-than-ideal training. The journey that followed became a masterclass in perseverance, problem-solving, and finding strength beyond physical preparation.
Glenn's running journey began reluctantly. As a soccer player, he specifically chose to be a goalkeeper to minimize running. During his time at West Point and in the Army, running became mandatory rather than recreational. Gradually, this obligation transformed into a mental outlet and eventually a passion—though one firmly rooted in road running until meeting his wife Agatha, an accomplished ultrarunner.
After years of crewing and pacing Agatha through numerous ultramarathons, Glenn decided it was time to attempt his own 100-miler. The Grasslands 100, set in a Texas state park northwest of Fort Worth, presented varied terrain across four distinct loops. Despite expecting flat landscapes, he encountered surprising hills, sandy sections, and even wandering cattle on nighttime trails.
What makes Glenn's accomplishment remarkable was completing this challenge despite limited training. Work commitments had restricted his long runs, with his longest being a disastrous marathon just weeks before race day. Yet this shortage of physical preparation was counterbalanced by mental fortitude and practical wisdom gained from supporting Agatha's ultra career—knowing when to change clothes before nightfall, how to manage nutrition consistently, which foods worked for his stomach, and how to minimize time at aid stations.
Perhaps the most tense moment came around mile 91, when his running companions warned they might miss a cutoff. Despite fatigue, they accelerated to an 11-minute mile pace, with Glenn taking a hard fall but continuing undeterred. They made the cutoff with just five minutes to spare, ultimately completing the full 100 miles.
Glenn's story reminds us that ultra running isn't just about physical capability—it's about problem-solving, adaptability, and refusing to surrender when your mind insists you should. Whether you're contemplating your first ultra or any significant challenge, remember his words: "Your biggest competition isn't other runners or even your body, it's your mind."
Have you faced a challenge that tested your mental limits more than your physical ones? We'd love to hear your story!
San Antonio RoadRunners:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, hello and welcome.
If this is your first time withus, thank you for stopping by.
You are listening to Choose toEndure the show dedicated to the
non-elite runners out there,where we share stories,
interviews, gear and trainingtips specific to the tail-end
heroes of the Ultra universe.
(00:21):
My name's Richard Gleave.
I've been running ultras nowsince 2017.
I have taken on and finishednumerous ultra distances, all
the way up through 220 miles,and I am unashamedly a member of
the back of the pack, just likemany of you out there.
(00:43):
Well, today I am super excitedto introduce a guest who brings
just a vast wealth of experienceand insight to the show Mr
Glenn McCrill.
He is a dedicated runner anddirector of coaching for the San
Antonio Roadrunners, with astrong background in marathons
(01:04):
and road racing.
But he's also spent countlesshours as part of the marvelous
McCrill team supporting, pacingand crewing his wife, agatha,
through her many ultra-runningadventures.
But this time the roles werereversed.
Glenn recently tackled his veryfirst 100 miler at the
(01:27):
Grasslands 100, and today we'regoing to hear all about his
journey from training topreparation to overcoming
challenges on race day.
So, whether you're a roadrunnerthinking about venturing into
ultras or you just love a goodendurance story.
You won't want to miss thisconversation.
Let's jump in.
Discover raw, inspiring storiesfrom runners who've been right
(01:52):
where you are.
This is the choose to endureultra running podcast with your
host.
He's english, not australian.
He's English, not AustralianRichard Gleave.
Well, glenn, welcome to thepodcast.
Really excited to have you here.
Can you start by telling us alittle bit about your background
(02:15):
in running and maybe how yougot started?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yes, certainly, I think, like most individuals, if
you look far into my past andand when I, when I started
running, I started as a soccerplayer here in here in the
United States, and I chose to begoalie, so I didn't have to run
.
Um, that that was that was mywhole goal was if you're a
goalkeeper, you had to run likeprobably about a mile during the
, during the warmups andcooldowns, and that was it, and
(02:45):
I tried to avoid it.
I joined the Army, went to WestPoint and still did enjoy
running, but I found out that Iwas pretty good at it.
So in my first class at WestPoint, my first run that I had
to do, my first graded event,they broke the entire class of
1991 at West Point into threegroups the black, the gray and
(03:11):
the gold group.
The black group was the fastest, the gray group was the middle
and the gold group was slowerrunners for that class during
your first summer.
Well, my name was the bottomname in the black group, so that
meant I was the slowest of thefast and I struggled the entire
summer.
The portions of the day that wehad to run were the parts that
(03:33):
I dreaded most.
But it gave me a background,though, in running and if I
found out that it was a placethat I could detach and clear my
mind and I began to enjoy itenough that I'm like, okay, I'm
gonna go out on my own and andrun while I was a kid at west
point.
Fast forward a little bit.
(03:53):
In the army there's arequirement to run, so you have
to run two miles, which isn'tvery far, but it's two miles and
it's a graded event as part ofthe of the Army Physical Fitness
Test.
So I made sure I was good forthat and I started to increase
my distances a little bit.
My first half marathon was nottrained, not allowed on their
(04:13):
strollers, were not allowed onthe run, and I got many, many
pats on the back as I pushed mybaby and we finished the half
marathon.
Following that, I attempted myfirst marathon in Kansas City.
(04:35):
When the Army moved me there, myfamily had stayed here in San
Antonio.
I needed something to fill mytime with, and so I decided to
train for a marathon on my own.
I did complete it.
It in my mind it was a completeand utter train wreck, but, but
it was one of those.
It was the first, first time Ithink I really experienced in
running the, the joy of, ofcompleting something not as
(04:57):
planned, but completing it underin my mind, under God's
strength, not underneath my ownstrength anymore.
There's a bigger power insideme.
There's a greater power than Iknow that I have and my brain
will tell me that I can't do it.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
And Glenn, what is a train wreck for you?
Just to give us someperspective here for our
audience.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
So a train wreck for me and I will bring up the last
marathon I ran.
We can use the words a trainwreck or the wheels came off the
bus is another way to say ityes, love those.
So about a month ago, the Alamomarathon here in San Antonio, I
was going to use it as atraining run for my 100 miler
and, as I did, I thought Agathaand I agreed that we would just,
(05:49):
we would run it and enjoy it,we'd take pictures.
This is a run to go out andenjoy my style of running, right
?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
there.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
It is, and we were both pretty excited that we were
not going to rush this race, wewere just going to enjoy it.
And about mile 18, I startednot to feel so well.
Oh, and I share this withagatha and she's shared share
some of her wisdom if she saidother friends who've gotten sick
or who have purposely blown upand that made them feel better.
(06:18):
so I decided to try that yeahand I tried it and it didn't
make me feel better, and alittle bit later I got sick
again, and then I got sick a lot, then I got sick a whole lot.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
And then Agatha talked me into getting out of
the uncovered part of theriverwalk, out of the sun, and
get to an aid station where myblood pressure was very low.
But the medics checked on meand said you're just dehydrated.
Okay, and why?
I bring that up?
And I want to bring that up torunners.
I learned in that marathon thatI planned just to complete it
(06:56):
was my slowest marathon ever byfar.
I completed it and I felthorrendous and I knew that two
weeks later I had 100 miler tocomplete and in my mind I was
terrified oh, I bet.
So when the wheels come off thebus for me, I lean back into
(07:16):
for me, into my faith, and I say, okay, this isn't under my
strength anymore.
God give me the strength and Irely on that and that's just
that's where I come from.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Fantastic.
Well, first of all, well donefor finishing the actual race.
I mean, just from what you'redescribing, I'm like there's no
way you're finishing that Welldone and obviously you're
running around.
You mentioned San Antonio thereand as part of the intro we
talked about you being thedirector of coaching, if I'm not
mistaken, at the San AntonioRoadrunners.
So tell us about.
(07:47):
I think that's a really bigclub.
There are a lot of runningclubs around, but I think that's
quite a big one.
So what is the San AntonioRoadrunners all about and kind
of what is your role and I think, they have an off-road or a
trail group as well, if I'm notmistaken.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
You're exactly right, richard.
So the San Antonio Roadrunnersis.
We have several running groupshere within San Antonio, both on
road and off road, and the SanAntonio Roadrunners we do have
the largest group of runners.
There's approximately 1,600runners that are signed up as
part of the San AntonioRoadrunners and it's all
different ages.
(08:24):
For coaching.
I'm there to make sure thecoaches are properly prepared.
All of our coaches are CPRtrained, first aid trained.
So if something does happenduring any of our training
events or our races, our coachescan step in immediately to
render first aid to thoserunners needing it.
It doesn't happen often, butI've been out there before where
(08:45):
we one of our runners actuallyhe had a heart attack and we
were prepared as our coacheswere moving towards him because
another runner calledfortunately some other runners
out there on the path that daywere nurses and started giving
him CPR and by the time we gotthere as coaches to relieve them
, the EMS had showed up and therunner's fine and he's actually
(09:09):
rejoined us again.
But the point being is, directorof coaching, we're there to
make sure the coaches try tocontinue their education within
running.
We're all Roadrunner Clubs ofAmerica certified, but that's a
one-time class.
How do we continue to grow inour education?
Some coaches do it on their ownand other coaches need some
(09:30):
assistance.
So that's my job as director ofcoaches is to help those
coaches see those opportunities.
As an example, I also coach thekids group, which I love to
death.
The seven to 12 year olds arephenomenal and their spirit is
not to give up.
Of course they're kids, so theyhave grumpy days, but the kids
(09:51):
are wonderful as well.
So we have all age groups inSan Antonio, roadrunners and,
like you said, the off-roadrunners, another phenomenal
group of people.
At one point I was only aroadrunner when I moved to San
Antonio and I focused on just onthe road, because who would
want to walk, go somewhere wherethere's roots and rocks and
trip, and one season I decidedto try it and sure, as we've all
(10:18):
experienced on off-road running, it's in that nice smooth area
with a pebble that's probablyabout the size of my thumb and
you catch your toe on that andgo down.
That's the one that's going toget you.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yeah, always you can, definitely you can avoid all
the big rocks, all the roots.
You feel like you've done anawesome job and then you get
that one tiny little one, andthat's the one that sends you
down.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
But I liked trail running.
I still went back to roadrunning.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
And then and then I met Agatha and you.
You've met Agatha as well.
She's a force unto herself andshe convinced me, along with the
phenomenal food that you getwhen you're, when you're ultra
running and running off roadinstead of a goo packet and you
know this instead of a goopacket and maybe a green banana,
you get meals as a roadrunner.
(11:11):
You can't fathom what you mean.
You get to eat real food.
Well, will you run?
No, will you stop and have somereal food?
Or, like yourself, you have abeer during a race.
That's phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
That's beautiful.
Have you been back to theroadrunner side, like do you
cross over the roadrunnertrailrunner side?
Have you been back there andtalked to them about this kind
of stuff, and what is thereaction if so?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah, originally I didn't think I would.
I thought I'll come over herefor a little.
I'll come over here for aseason to the trailrunning side
and crewing crewing some racesand pacing some races.
And the fact that at Moab,pacing Agatha that that point
where where she was taking arest and you and Vicki and some
(11:57):
other, some of our friends, werecrewing her and I got pirogies
as as a pacer, that I'm Polish,so when you get your soul food
as a pacer, it locked me in andsaying this is your people,
these people, you liked themalready, so that really helped
me swing.
When I go back to road, yeah,I'll run road.
(12:20):
There's a couple of marathons Iwant to run, but nothing.
I don't like 5Ks because they'rehard, hard, they're hard you
gotta go fast all the time yeah,and I and you have to feel bad
the entire race yes it'sterrible and I want to win it,
so that's just how it is I lovethat you have that competitive
spirit, certainly for ag.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
she definitely got that competitive spirit and
you've had plenty of experiencesupporting her at her ultras.
You've seen her go throughthose highs and those lows
during really a variety ofevents.
Having seen that, glenn, whatthen made you decide?
You know what I'm going to takeon my own 100 miler.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Well, the 100 miler was an opportunity for me to
test myself.
I knew I could run.
I mean, I've only done a couple50Ks.
I've only done two 50Ks, one 50miler, one 100K.
It was a jackalope jam that Ihad 24 hours to do.
So I pushed myself, but not notnot over the top push myself,
(13:27):
but it was.
Was it hard?
It was certainly, it wasdifficult.
It's a hundred K, yeah.
And I decided I needed to pushmyself a little bit further and
take a step out in faith and saylet's, let's do this.
Agatha had already signed upfor it and I asked her.
I said do you, do you need meto crew you or can I join you?
And she got pretty excited.
She was like well, definitely,let's, let's, let's give this a
(13:49):
shot and let's, let's, let's seeif we both can finish the
hundred hundred miler.
And and we went out theretogether and it was it, was it
definitely.
I was terrified when I startedthat.
That that that's anunderstatement because it was
scary utter muscles a long way.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
I bet now you guys went up to the grasslands 100
for your attempt.
Well, for your first attempt,can you kind of give folks out
there listening who might nothave heard of that race a little
bit of the background of therace, like where is it?
What's the kind of terrain thatyou're running in up there?
Is it a big race, small race?
What is the Grasslands 100?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
So the Grasslands 100 , it's a group of racing,
there's a 100, there's a 50miler, and the 100 and the 50
miler are both released at thesame time.
There's a marathon, there's a15K I believe I got them all.
However, it's on different,different loops and it's a.
(14:49):
It's a texas state park that isnorthwest of fort worth and we.
We believe that it was going tobe primarily flat.
I mean it's.
It doesn't seem like it's.
There's a lot of hills up there, but we were pretty wrong about
that.
It had some good elevation gainand drop and there were some of
(15:11):
the routes out there.
We were surprised when we ranthem, just saying, well, there
are flat portions of this andthere's a portion.
One of the routes had a herd ofcows that the race director
warned us about.
So anyway, grasslands 100, youhave to run.
There's four different loops,from a nine mile to a 15 mile
(15:32):
are the different lengths, andthere's aid stations every six
miles.
I think is the largest gap.
You're running without an aidstation for water or fuel, which
is nice, and some one of theaid stations was just water, but
it, it, they, they.
The trails were phenomenallymarked.
I have nothing but kudos togive the race director on the
(15:53):
trails being marked.
During the day I had no doubtwhich way I was going.
At night, as I ate, as I fueledduring the route and stuff like
that.
A couple, one or two timestimes, as I'm sure you've done,
I looked around.
I saw no more markers.
I backtracked yeah, a quartermile, and I said look, there's
some reflectors there, and thesign I should have kicked that
(16:14):
said not this way.
Ah that's a dead giveaway yeah,um, I saw that as well brilliant
, so it sounds like a reallycool race.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Was it kind of rooty up there, would you say, or were
the trails pretty, prettysmooth or even technical rocky?
What was the trail situationlike, or did it vary based on
the the loop you were doing?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
it did vary on the loop, um, it wasn't very
technical.
Um, there's, there were someparts that were single track.
There were some parts that werewere were loose sand, like okay
sand, which which we were bothquite surprised.
It was maybe only like aquarter half mile of one of the
loops, but a quarter half milethat I didn't want to deal with
and I was looking for any edgeof the path that might offer me
(16:56):
some more traction.
Fortunately, we both woregaiters, which I almost didn't
wear, and after the fact I saidboy, I'm sure I'm glad that I
listened to your recommendation,agatha, from a while ago and
wear gaiters to all the races,just in case, just in case
they're minimal weight and justso useful for a bunch of things.
(17:16):
Exactly, and it was alldifferent, like I said, from cow
pastures that you ran throughand you could see the cows had
been there before and during thenight.
For sure, cows do blend intothe when they're eating quietly
and you're running through themiddle of the herd they can
startle you quite a bit whenthey're right on the trail.
Yeah, I got kind of floored asthe cow was probably about 10
(17:39):
feet in front of me when itfinally moved Brilliant 10 feet
in front of me when it finallymoved Brilliant.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
So I mean, we talked about your experience, shall we
say, at the Alamo Marathon there.
But outside of that, how wasyour training?
How did you go about preparingfor this 100-miler?
That, I have to think is prettydaunting when you're looking at
it based on your history.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
You're right about that.
It was daunting and, in thegrand scheme of things, would I
have trained differently?
I would have trained a lotbetter than I could train, and
where I'm going with that iswork got in the way.
Things happened with thepresidential election.
Following that, I worked a lotof hours at at work, so a lot of
(18:25):
those times I wanted to dotraining runs.
I wasn't able to, so I I reallywas.
My longest run had been thatmarathon yeah trained for the
100 miler, um short of.
I did a 50 miler, probably abouteight months ago, but that's a
long way back and my marathontraining had always taught me
you, you need to continue tobuild up to this distance.
(18:48):
And that that's what in my mindwas playing.
But at the same time I I playedin my mind what I, what I teach
my kids and the kids runninggroup, is your biggest
competition out there isn't theother runner and it's not your
legs and it's not your arms, aslong as you don't get injured.
Your biggest competition isyour mind.
(19:10):
Your mind's going to want totell you to quit.
It's going to want to have youstay at that aid station just a
little bit longer.
It's going to it's going towant to stop you.
And I share that with the kidsand they get it.
And I, really, I I dwelt onthat as I was out there doing
the hundred miler of I, I, Idon't think I'm prepared for
(19:31):
this.
I just I can't.
I can't allow myself to quit.
And fortunately I had aphenomenal pacer for for 55
miles of it.
Agatha ran the first 55 milesof it and and until her stomach
didn't feel well with me and wewere we.
We went back and forth and weused a lot of the experiences of
(19:52):
crewing other runners, ofgetting out of the aid stations
quickly Not not not sitting downif we could help it and our
longest break we took an hour tochange clothes as it got dark
and to grab dinner real quickand that was our longest break.
And every time we quicklypushed through the aid stations
(20:13):
and I think that helped us out awhole lot.
We really created a nicecushion on the front side.
So the training wasn't what Iwould recommend to any runner if
I was coaching them.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Well, I think it's a good lesson, though I mean it
doesn't always go training thatis the way you want it to go, or
think you need it to go, andyet, depending on what your goal
is for the race, you can stillfinish these races.
It is, as they say, 90% mentaland 10% is in your mind.
It really is very, very mental,this running.
(20:46):
So, yeah, depending on yourgoals, you can still make these
big races on fairly minimaltraining.
I mean, granted, more trainingusually is a better experience,
but you can still do thesethings.
And talking of experienceyourself and Agatha, you guys
have done and been through somany ultras together.
Did your experience havingcrewed and paced Agatha on
(21:10):
ultras did that help?
You, do you think?
Speaker 2 (21:20):
trail runners and San Antonio road runners as well as
other ultra runners as they'reout there.
Take that opportunity, when youget that, to cruise somebody
else and to see them whenthey're in that place where
they're struggling.
When you're there, youunderstand it, helps you pull
(21:41):
through that struggle.
You see that they could do it.
You could reflect back on it.
You watch those runners thatyou saw get back out there again
quickly so their muscles didn'tget cold and they didn't start
to get that chill.
There's so much you can learnfrom the other runners around
you, as well as the runners thatare doing the race with you.
You talk with them, you drawoff their strength and it's
(22:06):
wonderful.
I mean it's wonderful to seehow the whole group of people at
Grasslands 100, all the100-mile runners, were out there
encouraging each other tofinish.
So it's the support structuresout there and it's not just the
(22:26):
support structure you bring fromhome.
And that's another thing I loveabout the ultra community, the
elites.
I watch them reach back down tothe back of the Packers.
Something else I will say andthis isn't just a plug for you,
and I talked about this yourpodcast has a wealth of
information, 100% that I bowedfrom.
(22:49):
I ran with Path Projects gear.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Oh, brilliant.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
I tried it after you interviewed that group and I
tried some of their stuff and itworked great for me and it's my
go-to gear.
I just I, I've, I'd heard ofthem but I wouldn't have tried
them until I heard about that.
So your, your podcast and otherpodcasts draw me to the wisdom
of others of hey, try this, andI'm willing to take anything
(23:16):
from any runner.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah, I love the way that everybody's out to help
everybody else get to the finishor at least in our space I get
that.
There are a few elites that areout there winning races and
that's really awesome too, don'tget me wrong.
But for the majority of us Iwould say we're out here trying
to overcome and just trying toget to our own finish, whatever
(23:38):
that looks like.
So I love that.
I did a race last year andmidway through the race I was
with another chap and we were onour way out.
It was an out and back race.
We were on our way out and theleader was coming back and the
leader, seeing us on the otherside of the road, literally
stopped, crossed the road andcame and stood and talked to us,
(24:02):
asking how we were doing.
And you know how was our daygoing on this race mid-race, and
I was like dude, what are youdoing?
Like get back over there andlike go to the finish.
But he took it.
He didn't have to.
We didn't flag him over, hejust decided by himself that he
was going to come over.
Aaron Iles, if you're listening, by any chance, aaron, just
fantastic guy.
(24:22):
Yeah he just came over andtalked to us.
Now, what other sport?
First of all, are you runningthe same course at the same time
, or participating at the sametime as the elite folks?
Everybody's on that coursealtogether.
And then where else would thosefolks kind of come and cheer
you on and ask how you're doingas part of the run?
So I just I think you're right.
(24:43):
The community aspect of it forme is just amazing, and whether
you're fast or slow or inbetween, it doesn't matter,
everybody's out to help eachother and I think that's
terrific.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
I couldn't agree more yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Now for the race itself.
Glenn, were there any reallychallenging moments for you,
aside from dodging cows on thetrail itself?
And was there ever a pointwhere, having gotten into this,
maybe after agatha had had sortof stopped around 55 miles or so
, did you ever seriously doubtfinishing um?
Speaker 2 (25:16):
I, I didn't.
I don't know if I doubtedfinishing.
No, was it a challenge once?
Once it was right as it'sgetting dark, and Agatha and I
went out and she, at that pointshe turned around, two and a
half miles out from the main aidstation.
She said we aren't going tomake cutoff if I stay with you.
And I looked at her and Ishared with her.
(25:38):
I said, as your husband, if youneed me to go back, you're far
more important than a beltbuckle.
Let's, let's go back.
And she says, no, I need you to, I need you to go on.
She said I'll be fine, I'll getback there.
So she turned around and wentback and I, I did the next 45
miles myself and it wasn't timeto check in on a lot of stuff,
(26:16):
Wasn't time to check in on a lotof stuff.
And I didn't find anybody in thedark until probably I don't
know maybe 4 am or so.
I finally linked up with someother runners that I knew and
they left out in front of me andone of the gentlemen was
speedwalking and the other othertwo runners I I recognized both
of them.
I'd seen them and the gentlemanthat was speedwalking, uh, we'd
seen at a different race.
So I knew him amed and and andI thought okay, they know what's
going on.
(26:37):
This speedwalking is going toget us to the cutoff, to the
next cutoff and about 3.4 milesout from the, from the, the
turnaround or the, the, thefinish line, where you check
your, your time check.
He looked at his watch.
He says we're not going to makecutoff.
What are we doing?
Oh no, and the woman and theother man took off at like like
(26:57):
a, probably a 10, 30 or 11minute pace, and I didn't have
that left in me.
Oh no, I ran 10, 30 or 11 minutepace and I didn't have that
left in me.
Oh no, I got as fast as I could, as a med did with trail
runners, because so I gotta takea break here real quick.
He didn't wait to step out intothe tree line real quick yeah
and I said, well, I gotta run.
Well, we all made that cut off.
How I don't.
Oh, I, I do know we ran like 11minute miles and that was the
(27:20):
only time in the 100 miles thatI that I caught my toe on that
little rock and I went out hardon my face and I still, I still
have a blood blister on my thumbfrom it that hasn't gone away
yet.
I I wiped out completely.
One of the other runners cameback to check on me.
I got back up, like I said, we,we finished it and then then we
made the cut off.
(27:40):
And once we made the cut offfor the last loop, it was nine
miles and we had, like, uh, twohours and 45 minutes to do it.
I'm like, well, we can walk itnow, like we're, we're, we are
within striking distance.
I said I'm not gonna walk itbecause I don't want to put
myself in a bad position, but it, it, it was, it was quite nice,
and so I, I guess, I, I guessI'd answer that I was concerned
(28:05):
when he looked at his watchbecause I was thinking the whole
time maybe my math is just offyeah and then we we took off at
a much faster pace than the,probably the 17 minute mile that
we were walking in his speedwalk.
We talked off, like I said, 11minute, 11 minute mile for.
So we cut 18 minutes off tomake sure we made that cut off
and we had about five minutes inour pocket to spare.
(28:26):
Yeah, it was a little to gothat far.
I was not to go 91 miles andmiss cut off would not have been
a happy day.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Ah, that would have really stuck with me for a long
time, I think, if that hadhappened.
So I totally feel you you goingfor that one, absolutely yeah.
Now.
So, having worked your waythrough, well, let me ask this
first, which parts of the racedid you struggle most with?
Because usually it's like mile30 and then maybe mile 70 or so,
(28:54):
and then you went through thenight, I think for the well,
maybe not for the first time,but certainly for the first time
, by yourself, potentially.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Yeah, so we'd done the whole route during the day.
But, like you said, so it's thefirst time by myself and the
route that I'd like during theday, I really didn't like at
night because I guess there werehills during the day and I was
fresh, so at night I did notlike those hills.
At night there's lots ofuphills followed by pretty good
(29:25):
downhills following the uphillsand probably like quarter-mile
downhill runs, and at nightthose aren't fun either.
They're scary.
At night, I mean, all I couldkeep thinking is I'm going to
fall.
I'm out here by myself and,yeah, I'll get back up and run
again, but I really don't wantto fall and go down hard.
(29:47):
It didn't happen.
I got lost, I mean a little bit, and one time I found myself
there were little little breaksoff the off the main trail and
they were probably only like 10or 12 feet in and it looked like
and I called them donkey brakeslike like the air brakes,
things that the trucks go up.
I called them donkey brakesbecause they were so small.
You could felt like two donkeysin it.
And uh, agatha, and I jokedabout that and I found myself
(30:11):
like I kind of shook my my headfor a second.
I'm like where am I at?
And I I mean I wasn't 10 feetoff the trail.
I have no earthly memory how Igot in there at that time.
It was probably three or four inthe morning by myself and yeah
it was a challenge, but, yeah,there were times at night when I
(30:37):
questioned my sanity and what Iwas doing.
And at no time did I see anygorillas off the path.
But we joked about that.
No shipwrecked either.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Yeah, absolutely those hallucinations, man,
they're, they're all.
All the rage these days, Iguess.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
So I hear um, but I, I did, yeah, it got.
It got a little bitquestionable right before
sunrise but but uh, fortunately,agatha, when, when she did stop
, it was pretty chilly out andshe wrapped up we didn't bring
sleeping bags because we didn'tplan on stopping Right, she's
wrapped up in a blanket out ofthe truck and just taco'd
(31:13):
herself up and when I'd come inshe goes.
You got to hear out of theinside of the big burrito, is
that you and she'd sit up?
Speaker 1 (31:29):
what do you need?
And she'd say, okay, you're notgoing to stay here long.
And she'd set up what he needand she, okay, you're not going
to stay here long.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
She'd push me back out again, which is beautiful.
So, having done your firsthundred miler, like what?
What surprised you most aboutit?
Would you say um, whatsurprised me most?
The ability, when you have toin nature, to to use nature to
go relieve yourself.
I did.
I, fortunately, from crewingAgatha a while back, I had some
emergency stuff for a trash bagand some wet wipes.
(31:54):
I just happened to have them inmy pack and that worked
wonderfully.
I wasn't anywhere near aportalette and I wasn't going to
go another 10 feet, but that'sjust.
I didn't.
I didn't know I had that in me,but I, yeah, at that point the
race was going to, the race wasgoing to happen.
I needed, I needed to takeanother step and take one more
(32:18):
step in my, my, my new learningand challenges.
And it worked.
And agatha chuckles she goes.
Well, everybody else probablydid that too.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
You still know that yes, it's, uh, I think it's a
rite of passage.
It's easier at night when theyou know, when you can turn your
headlight off and nobody cansee you back there in the, in
the bush or in in the trees yes,but exactly, but yes, it's
definitely.
I would say probablyeverybody's done some variety of
that.
You talked about Agatha alittle bit and her helping you
out.
How did it feel then to havethe roles reversed this time?
(32:51):
How was Agatha crewing you?
What was that experience like?
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Truthfully, I've had full confidence in her because
she had gone through the races,even if she hadn't known what
she was doing.
I finally understood theconcept of she offered me some,
some items of food when I camein and I finally understood
(33:19):
where she was at in the past,where I didn't want to make the
choices.
I wanted her to push something,and she picked up on that
pretty quick and said just justtake this, and you're going to
take it with you because you'vebeen eating this and it's been
staying down and you are havingtrouble eating this.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Nice Okay.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
And so she, she queued off on that pretty quick,
which was nice to have a crewthat understood where I was at
at that moment.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
yeah, minimize the the decisions that you have to
make exactly.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
And I, I think, I think you, you were with me when
we solved that out at moab,when the one gentleman didn't
want to.
They had choices for medals andhe didn't want to pick his
medal because that was anotherchoice at that point that he was
passed.
Yeah, that just give mesomething and make me not think
it was nice to finally join therest of you, getting a little
(34:08):
bit closer to folks like youthat I aspire to be one day.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Old and slow Glenn.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Is that what we're saying?
As a young man, I thought Ineeded to come in first.
As I age and get wisdom, Irealize that I need to finish
and there's nothing with thereal race that I see out there
(34:36):
for myself is finding anotherrunner that needs that pusher to
talk or to vent or just tocomplain, and that's okay.
Hey, I hurt, or this is goingon in my life, as we all
experience on the longer runs.
Okay, let's get through thistogether.
We're going to make it back tothe next aid station and we're
going to push on, and that's areally beautiful thing that the
(34:57):
longer the ultra runs allow usto do.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Absolutely, and did you have, aside from the
leftover TP situation, werethere any particular gear
choices or nutritional choicesother nutritional choices that
you made that worked well foryou on this race?
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Yeah, definitely.
I will say the gear choices.
I mean, I just have an eighthinvest and I would probably.
It worked for me because I knewwhere everything was at which
was nice For the Path Projectstuff.
I had a jacket with pockets andI love the Path Project shorts
that have pockets.
Oh yeah, those are great.
Yeah, I can put stuff in mypockets and I don't have to
(35:38):
think about where I'm going tograb that snack.
Yeah, bobo bars, peanut butterand jelly phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Do you know I have recently come across these Bobo
bars.
It happened at Swami Shuffle.
One of the ladies I was runningwith, elizabeth hey, elizabeth,
she had, well, her crew, herhusband, crewing had these Bobo
bars.
They had the strawberry onesand then the peanut butter and
grape, I think it was.
But I had never seen thesebefore, and so they were like,
(36:08):
yeah, try one.
So I'm hooked on those things.
I'm right there with you on theBobo bandwagon.
If that's a thing I don't know,I'm going to buy a whole box of
them and take them on the nextone.
They were great.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
The Bacryls have a box currently in our pantry.
I also learned the, the valuethat that I've been told so many
times by other runners.
Uh, the, the, the picking thesalt, salt tablets in in a
pattern or routine so you don'tget behind.
I don't think I don't.
I can't recall any, any legaches or any pains that I that
I've had on shorter runs, a muchshorter runs, for lack of salt.
(36:48):
Worst things were were I let mynutrition get a little bit low
and I got.
I got heavy legs.
And as soon as I clicked thatBobo bar or a or a cup of ramen
that was packed with carbs andit clicked me over the top I did
learn that cold pizza is not myanswer ever on a race.
My mouth will, or my mouth andthroat will not swallow cold
(37:09):
pizza, no matter how bad I wantthe pizza.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Oh, and you're totally missing out, totally
missing out on some cold pizza.
It's like the best thing, but Iget it.
I get it.
It's hard to swallow.
I don't know.
Nobody ever told me that beforedoing ultras, but it's really
difficult to swallow food.
At some point your throatdoesn't want to do it, which I
was not at all ready for when ithappened to me.
Now I know that was a weird onefinding that out for sure.
(37:36):
Do you think there was anythingthat you would have done
differently in your prep or racestrategy if you were going to
do this again, or for anotherrace, or for this race
specifically again?
For anybody else consideringdoing this race, what kind of
advice might you give them?
Speaker 2 (38:06):
My advice that I'd give them, if somebody were
attempting their first 100 miler, the fact that I had somebody,
agatha, who I could look to asan experienced runner.
If you can have somebody that'sout there with you crewing or
pacing you, that knows you, thatknows your strengths and
weaknesses and, fortunately forAgatha and I, we compliment each
other.
So when I have strength it'susually about the time she's
fading.
so for us running, as as for thefirst 55 miles as a couple, it
(38:27):
worked perfectly yeah you knowit's scary when, all of a sudden
, the the trapeze artist's netgoes away and you're only going
to see the net every every sixor 50.
Well, I guess 9 or 15 miles oror somewhere in between, or 12.
It I guess real scary.
But uh, it's, there's.
(38:47):
There's a lot that can belearned from the other runners,
though.
I mean I always I looked atsome of the other setups they
had.
We had a mat with our chairs onit and we each had a box for
food and that was perfect.
Yeah, I mean, fortunately itdidn't rain.
If it rained we would have beena lot more uncomfortable.
Changing clothes before dark ishuge.
Having just a dry pair ofclothes made me feel like I just
(39:11):
started the race again.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Yes, great tip that one Definitely change before
dark, actually before it getsdark Like while you can see what
you're doing change clothes.
Thank you, yes.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
You're 100% and like, while you can see what you're
doing, change clothes.
Thank you, yes, 100, and andthat that's what we did and that
that was.
We were going to wait anotherloop to do that, a shorter loop,
and whether it was it was god,god's purpose or whatever, I had
a blister and I said no, I needto change my socks right now
because there's some sand in mysocks.
I said I need to make, I needto look to check at the blister
out and we taped the blister andit was fine.
(39:43):
And I got other blisters when Iwas out there by myself, but
they were all recoverable.
There was so much I learned andtruthfully, I talked to Agatha
about it.
I need to write it down so Idon't repeat it.
There's a lot she'll help meremember and there's a lot that
we share, so I don't.
So I'm repeating this.
(40:04):
The lot shall help me rememberand there's a lot that we share,
like like a hanging, a hangingpack that we hang in a tree or
we hang on something that youcan see all your medicine on one
side and the other side hasfirst aid and you can see it on
little plastic, clear packets.
It's, it's for women'snecklaces or something like that
.
But it's, it's three feet longand it's wonderful.
You can see everything at onceand you just hang it in a tree.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
It's phenomenal that you can if you can get in and
out of an aid station.
I saw the truth of that, justbeing able not to spend my time
there, so did I want to sit?
I certainly wanted to sit inthat chair.
It was wonderful, and startinga course is always hard.
So that was the biggest lessonlearned is minimize your time on
(40:47):
aid stations, I guess, anddon't skip any food and pay
attention, make sure you'reright.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
There is so much time you can lose at an aid station
just faffing around, sittingaround.
You get to chatting with people.
Maybe there's a fire there thatyou're sat by, especially
overnight, and you're like, oh,this feels pretty good right
(41:13):
here.
You know, suddenly an hour anda half's gone by and you're like
, oh no, I gotta get out and Igotta actually keep going here
at some point.
So, yeah, so much time you canlose, but I think maybe not so
much in 100 miler, because Ithink most people can go through
one night and sort of come outon the other side.
But yeah, food, hydration, sleepin longer races and then
(41:38):
minimize as much as you can thataid station time.
Kind of know what you're doinggoing in, have a plan, as you
can, that that aid station time.
Kind of know what you're doinggoing in.
Like have a plan as you'reapproaching that aid station and
know what you need, get in andget out as quick as you can.
But yeah, I think that's that'sreally cool.
Are there more ultras glenn inyour future?
You know, are you going for ahundred or longer or are you
(42:00):
feeling the pull now back toback to road racing, do you
think?
Speaker 2 (42:06):
well and I'm not feeling the pull back to road
racing so much.
I will do more road marathons.
I definitely will.
I'm one of my birthday presentsthis year is I asked I want to
run the brain core marathon justbecause I've never run it, yeah
, yeah and I've heard it's aterrifically run race.
And and will I go back toHouston to run the marathon?
Yeah, because Houston doestheir marathons well.
(42:28):
Austin does most of their racesvery well, so I'll run more
road races.
But is there 125 miler in myfuture?
Yep, and I plan at some pointI'll be picking your brain some
more and asking you for somerecommendations, as well as
other runners.
And just, will I get to the 200?
I think I will, just becausewe're all created to push
(42:51):
ourselves and if we just sitwhere we sit, we're not going to
get any farther.
So God created us all to pushourselves and that's what I plan
to do.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
Well, goodness me, I applaud your bravery.
Having seen a few of us gothrough 200 miles, to put
yourself in that situation ispretty daunting standing on the
start line of one of those racesso definitely applaud the
effort to get there at somepoint.
I think you'll like it.
It's a life-changing thing whenyou go through it.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
But yeah, fantastic, I love it On a trail race.
I most definitely am and I'mokay with that's where I'm at.
On a trail race Might I getfaster, I might, but if it
doesn't happen, I'm okay withthat.
I like the back-of-the-packgroup.
I really do.
They're very personable.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Yeah, and I think one of the things I love about the
back-of-the-pack group iseverybody's cheering for each
other, as we've talked about.
But if you find you can gofaster or you want to go faster,
everybody's all in for that.
For you Like, hey, how do wehelp you go faster?
Nobody feels like it's acompetition or I'm not going to
give you some advice because Idon't want you to go faster than
(44:15):
me.
I just love that.
We talked about that a littlebit, but I think it's a terrific
place to be and, realistically,back of the pack folks we're
out there in some cases twice aslong as the elites that are
finishing.
So who are the real enduranceathletes?
That's what I will tell you.
We have to think about food andnutrition and sleep, and all
(44:37):
that for twice as long as thepeople at the front.
So it's double the stress anddouble the anxiety and no short
amount of physical effort.
So that's why I love doing thisstuff for Back of the Packers,
because all those people choseto do that.
They made a choice to go outthere, knowing that they were
going to have to put themselvesin that position and deal with
(45:00):
all of those challenges for anextended period, whether that's
a 50-mile, 100-mile, 200-mile,whatever.
Every single person made thatchoice, knowing who and where
they were from a physicalstandpoint, and I absolutely tip
my hat to every person thatgoes out there and stands on the
start line of these things,choosing to endure the name of
(45:23):
the podcast.
This is why right, Because Ijust think that choice, in the
society we live in, whereeverything is about ease and
convenience, where you can orderyour lunch on an app and it
gets delivered to your door, dosomething difficult.
Learn something about yourself.
Challenge yourself a bitdifficult.
(45:44):
Learn something about yourself,Challenge yourself a bit.
I love that aspect of it.
Now, Glenn, one of the thingswe like to do on the show as you
may know if you've beenlistening to an episode or two
is to invite guests to choose asong to add to the free Choose
to Endure Spotify playlist.
Typically, it's somethingfamily-friendly, something that
might lift you up, motivate orjust keep you moving while
(46:07):
you're out on the trail.
Did you have a song that youwould like to add to the
playlist, either from theGrasslands 100 that got you
moving, or just, in general, asong that resonates with you a
little bit?
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Well, the song that I'm picking is actually both
Awesome, so I actually I didn'twear music the entire Grasslands
100, either talk to people orwhatever.
I watched one individualsinging to himself because his
phone had died.
However, I went through an aidstation and they had my favorite
(46:44):
song by Elton John.
I'm Still Standing.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
Oh, brilliant.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
It, just it inspires me when I hear it Every time.
My daughter, aurora, her andAgatha and I were marshalling a
race a couple of weeks ago, thePrickly Pear 50K, and they were
out there singing it and itseems to inspire a lot of
runners.
I just it's, it's a quick beatand it's elton john.
(47:11):
I don't know that.
He knows how to do a bad songwell, no, for sure.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
I mean, everyone loves some elton john, don't
they?
And what a great message aspart of an ultra run as well.
Like I'm still standing, I'mstill here, right, the race
hasn't beat me yet.
I love that messaging, despitethe fact that it's a very what
do they call it?
Toe tapper you know, you candefinitely tap your feet to that
song, but I love the messagingbehind that too.
Great choice.
We'll definitely get that addedso that others can enjoy the
(47:39):
song just as much as you, and Idefinitely do.
Fantastic Well, as we look towrap up this episode if I don't
trip over my own little pebblethere, glenn, I think your story
is a terrific reminder thatstepping up from marathons to
100 miler road racing to trail,it's as much about mindset as it
(48:02):
is about mileage your abilityto adopt and adapt your training
, embrace those new challengesand then rely on your fantastic
wife as your support crew and gothrough the night unsupported
for the first time.
I think that just shows howachievable that leap can be.
So if you're listening and youare a roadrunner considering
(48:25):
running your first ultra, Ithink Glenn has some experiences
and some key lessons that youcan take with you.
Glenn, if there are folks outthere wanting to learn more
about the San AntonioRoadrunners or the off-road
trail team, where would they goto do that?
Speaker 2 (48:45):
So if they just go ahead and Google San Antonio
Roadrunners, the page will popup.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
Okay, cool.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
Not to be confused with the University of San
Antonio Roadrunners, which chosethe same mascot.
Oh who came?
Speaker 1 (49:00):
first San Antonio Roadrunners.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
Yeah, it'll pop up, and what it does if you
shootners, yeah, it'll pop up,and when it does, if you shoot a
coaching question, it'll go tomy mailbox.
However, it's a great group offolks, very encouraging On those
days you don't feel likerunning.
They'll be out there for you Onthe days you do.
Some days you'll be theencourager and some days you'll
be the encouragee, which is thebeautiful thing that I see about
(49:24):
running, and the bottom line iswe all get better and more
healthy when we're out there andwe're taking this opportunity
to get out on the roads or thetrails and run.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
Yeah, absolutely, Glenn.
Where do the roadrunners run?
Is there a location that thetrail runners go and the actual
roadrunning group?
Do they kind of base themselvesin certain areas?
Speaker 2 (49:46):
So they base themselves.
The road runners meet indifferent areas all around San
Antonio and then there's meetups.
If you go to the San AntonioRoad Runner page, there's
meetups that are free.
You don't have to sign up forthe group, you can just meet
other runners out there and theyget you some safety.
All right, cool, yeah, theoff-road runners.
A lot of times we do run withinSan Antonio, but a lot of times
we like to get outside of SanAntonio and hit some of those
(50:08):
Texas State parks which arebeautiful.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
Oh, out there in Bandera, exactly, that is a
really beautiful but verychallenging place to try to run
slash hike.
If you've ever tried to go andrun that race, the Bandera 100K
is held out there and boy, thatis some challenging terrain.
Make sure you put somethingover your legs, for those cacti
out there.
Love it Brilliant.
(50:31):
So, folks, if you're browsingthe internet, don't forget to
subscribe to the show here too,while you're looking for the San
Antonio Roadrunner link.
That way, you'll get notifiedeach time a new episode drops,
and if you're enjoying what youhear, definitely consider
following, sharing and leave areview.
(50:51):
That would mean the world to me.
Your support helps grow.
The podcast connects morerunners to this amazing ultra
community that we've beentalking about here with Glenn
and spreads the word to thosewho could benefit from the
information that we share withfantastic guests right here on
the show.
You can find us on Instagramand Facebook at Choose to Endure
(51:15):
, or you can visit us anytime atchoosetoendurecom.
I would love to hear from you,whether that is to say hello,
suggest a topic or share yourstory.
You can email me directly, ifyou'd like, at info at
choosetoeensurecom.
I absolutely adore interactingwith listeners.
(51:36):
Just like you, it's one of myfavorite parts of doing the show
, so definitely don't be shyabout reaching out and saying
hello.
And so with that I will sayuntil next time, run long, run
strong, go check out Glenn andthe San Antonio Roadrunners and
(51:59):
keep choosing to endure.
Well, hello and welcome.
If this is your first time withus, thank you for stopping by.
You are listening to Choose toEndure the show dedicated to the
non-elite runners out there,where we share stories,
interviews, gear and trainingtips specific to the tail-end
heroes of the Ultra universe.
(00:21):
My name's Richard Gleave.
I've been running ultras nowsince 2017.
I have taken on and finishednumerous ultra distances, all
the way up through 220 miles,and I am unashamedly a member of
the back of the pack, just likemany of you out there.
(00:43):
Well, today I am super excitedto introduce a guest who brings
just a vast wealth of experienceand insight to the show Mr
Glenn McCrill.
He is a dedicated runner anddirector of coaching for the San
Antonio Roadrunners, with astrong background in marathons
(01:04):
and road racing.
But he's also spent countlesshours as part of the marvelous
McCrill team supporting, pacingand crewing his wife, agatha,
through her many ultra-runningadventures.
But this time the roles werereversed.
Glenn recently tackled his veryfirst 100 miler at the
(01:27):
Grasslands 100, and today we'regoing to hear all about his
journey from training topreparation to overcoming
challenges on race day.
So, whether you're a roadrunnerthinking about venturing into
ultras or you just love a goodendurance story.
You won't want to miss thisconversation.
Let's jump in.
Discover raw, inspiring storiesfrom runners who've been right
(01:52):
where you are.
This is the choose to endureultra running podcast with your
host.
He's english, not australian.
He's English, not AustralianRichard Gleave.
Well, glenn, welcome to thepodcast.
Really excited to have you here.
Can you start by telling us alittle bit about your background
(02:15):
in running and maybe how yougot started?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yes, certainly, I think, like most individuals, if
you look far into my past andand when I, when I started
running, I started as a soccerplayer here in here in the
United States, and I chose to begoalie, so I didn't have to run
.
Um, that that was that was mywhole goal was if you're a
goalkeeper, you had to run likeprobably about a mile during the
, during the warmups andcooldowns, and that was it, and
(02:45):
I tried to avoid it.
I joined the Army, went to WestPoint and still did enjoy
running, but I found out that Iwas pretty good at it.
So in my first class at WestPoint, my first run that I had
to do, my first graded event,they broke the entire class of
1991 at West Point into threegroups the black, the gray and
(03:11):
the gold group.
The black group was the fastest, the gray group was the middle
and the gold group was slowerrunners for that class during
your first summer.
Well, my name was the bottomname in the black group, so that
meant I was the slowest of thefast and I struggled the entire
summer.
The portions of the day that wehad to run were the parts that
(03:33):
I dreaded most.
But it gave me a background,though, in running and if I
found out that it was a placethat I could detach and clear my
mind and I began to enjoy itenough that I'm like, okay, I'm
gonna go out on my own and andrun while I was a kid at west
point.
Fast forward a little bit.
(03:53):
In the army there's arequirement to run, so you have
to run two miles, which isn'tvery far, but it's two miles and
it's a graded event as part ofthe of the Army Physical Fitness
Test.
So I made sure I was good forthat and I started to increase
my distances a little bit.
My first half marathon was nottrained, not allowed on their
(04:13):
strollers, were not allowed onthe run, and I got many, many
pats on the back as I pushed mybaby and we finished the half
marathon.
Following that, I attempted myfirst marathon in Kansas City.
(04:35):
When the Army moved me there, myfamily had stayed here in San
Antonio.
I needed something to fill mytime with, and so I decided to
train for a marathon on my own.
I did complete it.
It in my mind it was a completeand utter train wreck, but, but
it was one of those.
It was the first, first time Ithink I really experienced in
running the, the joy of, ofcompleting something not as
(04:57):
planned, but completing it underin my mind, under God's
strength, not underneath my ownstrength anymore.
There's a bigger power insideme.
There's a greater power than Iknow that I have and my brain
will tell me that I can't do it.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
And Glenn, what is a train wreck for you?
Just to give us someperspective here for our
audience.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
So a train wreck for me and I will bring up the last
marathon I ran.
We can use the words a trainwreck or the wheels came off the
bus is another way to say ityes, love those.
So about a month ago, the Alamomarathon here in San Antonio, I
was going to use it as atraining run for my 100 miler
and, as I did, I thought Agathaand I agreed that we would just,
(05:49):
we would run it and enjoy it,we'd take pictures.
This is a run to go out andenjoy my style of running, right
?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
there.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
It is, and we were both pretty excited that we were
not going to rush this race, wewere just going to enjoy it.
And about mile 18, I startednot to feel so well.
Oh, and I share this withagatha and she's shared share
some of her wisdom if she saidother friends who've gotten sick
or who have purposely blown upand that made them feel better.
(06:18):
so I decided to try that yeahand I tried it and it didn't
make me feel better, and alittle bit later I got sick
again, and then I got sick a lot, then I got sick a whole lot.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
And then Agatha talked me into getting out of
the uncovered part of theriverwalk, out of the sun, and
get to an aid station where myblood pressure was very low.
But the medics checked on meand said you're just dehydrated.
Okay, and why?
I bring that up?
And I want to bring that up torunners.
I learned in that marathon thatI planned just to complete it
(06:56):
was my slowest marathon ever byfar.
I completed it and I felthorrendous and I knew that two
weeks later I had 100 miler tocomplete and in my mind I was
terrified oh, I bet.
So when the wheels come off thebus for me, I lean back into
(07:16):
for me, into my faith, and I say, okay, this isn't under my
strength anymore.
God give me the strength and Irely on that and that's just
that's where I come from.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Fantastic.
Well, first of all, well donefor finishing the actual race.
I mean, just from what you'redescribing, I'm like there's no
way you're finishing that Welldone and obviously you're
running around.
You mentioned San Antonio thereand as part of the intro we
talked about you being thedirector of coaching, if I'm not
mistaken, at the San AntonioRoadrunners.
So tell us about.
(07:47):
I think that's a really bigclub.
There are a lot of runningclubs around, but I think that's
quite a big one.
So what is the San AntonioRoadrunners all about and kind
of what is your role and I think, they have an off-road or a
trail group as well, if I'm notmistaken.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
You're exactly right, richard.
So the San Antonio Roadrunnersis.
We have several running groupshere within San Antonio, both on
road and off road, and the SanAntonio Roadrunners we do have
the largest group of runners.
There's approximately 1,600runners that are signed up as
part of the San AntonioRoadrunners and it's all
different ages.
(08:24):
For coaching.
I'm there to make sure thecoaches are properly prepared.
All of our coaches are CPRtrained, first aid trained.
So if something does happenduring any of our training
events or our races, our coachescan step in immediately to
render first aid to thoserunners needing it.
It doesn't happen often, butI've been out there before where
(08:45):
we one of our runners actuallyhe had a heart attack and we
were prepared as our coacheswere moving towards him because
another runner calledfortunately some other runners
out there on the path that daywere nurses and started giving
him CPR and by the time we gotthere as coaches to relieve them
, the EMS had showed up and therunner's fine and he's actually
(09:09):
rejoined us again.
But the point being is, directorof coaching, we're there to
make sure the coaches try tocontinue their education within
running.
We're all Roadrunner Clubs ofAmerica certified, but that's a
one-time class.
How do we continue to grow inour education?
Some coaches do it on their ownand other coaches need some
(09:30):
assistance.
So that's my job as director ofcoaches is to help those
coaches see those opportunities.
As an example, I also coach thekids group, which I love to
death.
The seven to 12 year olds arephenomenal and their spirit is
not to give up.
Of course they're kids, so theyhave grumpy days, but the kids
(09:51):
are wonderful as well.
So we have all age groups inSan Antonio, roadrunners and,
like you said, the off-roadrunners, another phenomenal
group of people.
At one point I was only aroadrunner when I moved to San
Antonio and I focused on just onthe road, because who would
want to walk, go somewhere wherethere's roots and rocks and
trip, and one season I decidedto try it and sure, as we've all
(10:18):
experienced on off-road running, it's in that nice smooth area
with a pebble that's probablyabout the size of my thumb and
you catch your toe on that andgo down.
That's the one that's going toget you.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yeah, always you can, definitely you can avoid all
the big rocks, all the roots.
You feel like you've done anawesome job and then you get
that one tiny little one, andthat's the one that sends you
down.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
But I liked trail running.
I still went back to roadrunning.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
And then and then I met Agatha and you.
You've met Agatha as well.
She's a force unto herself andshe convinced me, along with the
phenomenal food that you getwhen you're, when you're ultra
running and running off roadinstead of a goo packet and you
know this instead of a goopacket and maybe a green banana,
you get meals as a roadrunner.
(11:11):
You can't fathom what you mean.
You get to eat real food.
Well, will you run?
No, will you stop and have somereal food?
Or, like yourself, you have abeer during a race.
That's phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
That's beautiful.
Have you been back to theroadrunner side, like do you
cross over the roadrunnertrailrunner side?
Have you been back there andtalked to them about this kind
of stuff, and what is thereaction if so?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah, originally I didn't think I would.
I thought I'll come over herefor a little.
I'll come over here for aseason to the trailrunning side
and crewing crewing some racesand pacing some races.
And the fact that at Moab,pacing Agatha that that point
where where she was taking arest and you and Vicki and some
(11:57):
other, some of our friends, werecrewing her and I got pirogies
as as a pacer, that I'm Polish,so when you get your soul food
as a pacer, it locked me in andsaying this is your people,
these people, you liked themalready, so that really helped
me swing.
When I go back to road, yeah,I'll run road.
(12:20):
There's a couple of marathons Iwant to run, but nothing.
I don't like 5Ks because they'rehard, hard, they're hard you
gotta go fast all the time yeah,and I and you have to feel bad
the entire race yes it'sterrible and I want to win it,
so that's just how it is I lovethat you have that competitive
spirit, certainly for ag.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
she definitely got that competitive spirit and
you've had plenty of experiencesupporting her at her ultras.
You've seen her go throughthose highs and those lows
during really a variety ofevents.
Having seen that, glenn, whatthen made you decide?
You know what I'm going to takeon my own 100 miler.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Well, the 100 miler was an opportunity for me to
test myself.
I knew I could run.
I mean, I've only done a couple50Ks.
I've only done two 50Ks, one 50miler, one 100K.
It was a jackalope jam that Ihad 24 hours to do.
So I pushed myself, but not notnot over the top push myself,
(13:27):
but it was.
Was it hard?
It was certainly, it wasdifficult.
It's a hundred K, yeah.
And I decided I needed to pushmyself a little bit further and
take a step out in faith and saylet's, let's do this.
Agatha had already signed upfor it and I asked her.
I said do you, do you need meto crew you or can I join you?
And she got pretty excited.
She was like well, definitely,let's, let's, let's give this a
(13:49):
shot and let's, let's, let's seeif we both can finish the
hundred hundred miler.
And and we went out theretogether and it was it, was it
definitely.
I was terrified when I startedthat.
That that that's anunderstatement because it was
scary utter muscles a long way.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
I bet now you guys went up to the grasslands 100
for your attempt.
Well, for your first attempt,can you kind of give folks out
there listening who might nothave heard of that race a little
bit of the background of therace, like where is it?
What's the kind of terrain thatyou're running in up there?
Is it a big race, small race?
What is the Grasslands 100?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
So the Grasslands 100 , it's a group of racing,
there's a 100, there's a 50miler, and the 100 and the 50
miler are both released at thesame time.
There's a marathon, there's a15K I believe I got them all.
However, it's on different,different loops and it's a.
(14:49):
It's a texas state park that isnorthwest of fort worth and we.
We believe that it was going tobe primarily flat.
I mean it's.
It doesn't seem like it's.
There's a lot of hills up there, but we were pretty wrong about
that.
It had some good elevation gainand drop and there were some of
(15:11):
the routes out there.
We were surprised when we ranthem, just saying, well, there
are flat portions of this andthere's a portion.
One of the routes had a herd ofcows that the race director
warned us about.
So anyway, grasslands 100, youhave to run.
There's four different loops,from a nine mile to a 15 mile
(15:32):
are the different lengths, andthere's aid stations every six
miles.
I think is the largest gap.
You're running without an aidstation for water or fuel, which
is nice, and some one of theaid stations was just water, but
it, it, they, they.
The trails were phenomenallymarked.
I have nothing but kudos togive the race director on the
(15:53):
trails being marked.
During the day I had no doubtwhich way I was going.
At night, as I ate, as I fueledduring the route and stuff like
that.
A couple, one or two timestimes, as I'm sure you've done,
I looked around.
I saw no more markers.
I backtracked yeah, a quartermile, and I said look, there's
some reflectors there, and thesign I should have kicked that
(16:14):
said not this way.
Ah that's a dead giveaway yeah,um, I saw that as well brilliant
, so it sounds like a reallycool race.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Was it kind of rooty up there, would you say, or were
the trails pretty, prettysmooth or even technical rocky?
What was the trail situationlike, or did it vary based on
the the loop you were doing?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
it did vary on the loop, um, it wasn't very
technical.
Um, there's, there were someparts that were single track.
There were some parts that werewere were loose sand, like okay
sand, which which we were bothquite surprised.
It was maybe only like aquarter half mile of one of the
loops, but a quarter half milethat I didn't want to deal with
and I was looking for any edgeof the path that might offer me
(16:56):
some more traction.
Fortunately, we both woregaiters, which I almost didn't
wear, and after the fact I saidboy, I'm sure I'm glad that I
listened to your recommendation,agatha, from a while ago and
wear gaiters to all the races,just in case, just in case
they're minimal weight and justso useful for a bunch of things.
(17:16):
Exactly, and it was alldifferent, like I said, from cow
pastures that you ran throughand you could see the cows had
been there before and during thenight.
For sure, cows do blend intothe when they're eating quietly
and you're running through themiddle of the herd they can
startle you quite a bit whenthey're right on the trail.
Yeah, I got kind of floored asthe cow was probably about 10
(17:39):
feet in front of me when itfinally moved Brilliant 10 feet
in front of me when it finallymoved Brilliant.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
So I mean, we talked about your experience, shall we
say, at the Alamo Marathon there.
But outside of that, how wasyour training?
How did you go about preparingfor this 100-miler?
That, I have to think is prettydaunting when you're looking at
it based on your history.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
You're right about that.
It was daunting and, in thegrand scheme of things, would I
have trained differently?
I would have trained a lotbetter than I could train, and
where I'm going with that iswork got in the way.
Things happened with thepresidential election.
Following that, I worked a lotof hours at at work, so a lot of
(18:25):
those times I wanted to dotraining runs.
I wasn't able to, so I I reallywas.
My longest run had been thatmarathon yeah trained for the
100 miler, um short of.
I did a 50 miler, probably abouteight months ago, but that's a
long way back and my marathontraining had always taught me
you, you need to continue tobuild up to this distance.
(18:48):
And that that's what in my mindwas playing.
But at the same time I I playedin my mind what I, what I teach
my kids and the kids runninggroup, is your biggest
competition out there isn't theother runner and it's not your
legs and it's not your arms, aslong as you don't get injured.
Your biggest competition isyour mind.
(19:10):
Your mind's going to want totell you to quit.
It's going to want to have youstay at that aid station just a
little bit longer.
It's going to it's going towant to stop you.
And I share that with the kidsand they get it.
And I, really, I I dwelt onthat as I was out there doing
the hundred miler of I, I, Idon't think I'm prepared for
(19:31):
this.
I just I can't.
I can't allow myself to quit.
And fortunately I had aphenomenal pacer for for 55
miles of it.
Agatha ran the first 55 milesof it and and until her stomach
didn't feel well with me and wewere we.
We went back and forth and weused a lot of the experiences of
(19:52):
crewing other runners, ofgetting out of the aid stations
quickly Not not not sitting downif we could help it and our
longest break we took an hour tochange clothes as it got dark
and to grab dinner real quickand that was our longest break.
And every time we quicklypushed through the aid stations
(20:13):
and I think that helped us out awhole lot.
We really created a nicecushion on the front side.
So the training wasn't what Iwould recommend to any runner if
I was coaching them.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Well, I think it's a good lesson, though I mean it
doesn't always go training thatis the way you want it to go, or
think you need it to go, andyet, depending on what your goal
is for the race, you can stillfinish these races.
It is, as they say, 90% mentaland 10% is in your mind.
It really is very, very mental,this running.
(20:46):
So, yeah, depending on yourgoals, you can still make these
big races on fairly minimaltraining.
I mean, granted, more trainingusually is a better experience,
but you can still do thesethings.
And talking of experienceyourself and Agatha, you guys
have done and been through somany ultras together.
Did your experience havingcrewed and paced Agatha on
(21:10):
ultras did that help?
You, do you think?
Speaker 2 (21:20):
trail runners and San Antonio road runners as well as
other ultra runners as they'reout there.
Take that opportunity, when youget that, to cruise somebody
else and to see them whenthey're in that place where
they're struggling.
When you're there, youunderstand it, helps you pull
(21:41):
through that struggle.
You see that they could do it.
You could reflect back on it.
You watch those runners thatyou saw get back out there again
quickly so their muscles didn'tget cold and they didn't start
to get that chill.
There's so much you can learnfrom the other runners around
you, as well as the runners thatare doing the race with you.
You talk with them, you drawoff their strength and it's
(22:06):
wonderful.
I mean it's wonderful to seehow the whole group of people at
Grasslands 100, all the100-mile runners, were out there
encouraging each other tofinish.
So it's the support structuresout there and it's not just the
(22:26):
support structure you bring fromhome.
And that's another thing I loveabout the ultra community, the
elites.
I watch them reach back down tothe back of the Packers.
Something else I will say andthis isn't just a plug for you,
and I talked about this yourpodcast has a wealth of
information, 100% that I bowedfrom.
(22:49):
I ran with Path Projects gear.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Oh, brilliant.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
I tried it after you interviewed that group and I
tried some of their stuff and itworked great for me and it's my
go-to gear.
I just I, I've, I'd heard ofthem but I wouldn't have tried
them until I heard about that.
So your, your podcast and otherpodcasts draw me to the wisdom
of others of hey, try this, andI'm willing to take anything
(23:16):
from any runner.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah, I love the way that everybody's out to help
everybody else get to the finishor at least in our space I get
that.
There are a few elites that areout there winning races and
that's really awesome too, don'tget me wrong.
But for the majority of us Iwould say we're out here trying
to overcome and just trying toget to our own finish, whatever
(23:38):
that looks like.
So I love that.
I did a race last year andmidway through the race I was
with another chap and we were onour way out.
It was an out and back race.
We were on our way out and theleader was coming back and the
leader, seeing us on the otherside of the road, literally
stopped, crossed the road andcame and stood and talked to us,
(24:02):
asking how we were doing.
And you know how was our daygoing on this race mid-race, and
I was like dude, what are youdoing?
Like get back over there andlike go to the finish.
But he took it.
He didn't have to.
We didn't flag him over, hejust decided by himself that he
was going to come over.
Aaron Iles, if you're listening, by any chance, aaron, just
fantastic guy.
(24:22):
Yeah he just came over andtalked to us.
Now, what other sport?
First of all, are you runningthe same course at the same time
, or participating at the sametime as the elite folks?
Everybody's on that coursealtogether.
And then where else would thosefolks kind of come and cheer
you on and ask how you're doingas part of the run?
So I just I think you're right.
(24:43):
The community aspect of it forme is just amazing, and whether
you're fast or slow or inbetween, it doesn't matter,
everybody's out to help eachother and I think that's
terrific.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
I couldn't agree more yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Now for the race itself.
Glenn, were there any reallychallenging moments for you,
aside from dodging cows on thetrail itself?
And was there ever a pointwhere, having gotten into this,
maybe after agatha had had sortof stopped around 55 miles or so
, did you ever seriously doubtfinishing um?
Speaker 2 (25:16):
I, I didn't.
I don't know if I doubtedfinishing.
No, was it a challenge once?
Once it was right as it'sgetting dark, and Agatha and I
went out and she, at that pointshe turned around, two and a
half miles out from the main aidstation.
She said we aren't going tomake cutoff if I stay with you.
And I looked at her and Ishared with her.
(25:38):
I said, as your husband, if youneed me to go back, you're far
more important than a beltbuckle.
Let's, let's go back.
And she says, no, I need you to, I need you to go on.
She said I'll be fine, I'll getback there.
So she turned around and wentback and I, I did the next 45
miles myself and it wasn't timeto check in on a lot of stuff,
(26:16):
Wasn't time to check in on a lotof stuff.
And I didn't find anybody in thedark until probably I don't
know maybe 4 am or so.
I finally linked up with someother runners that I knew and
they left out in front of me andone of the gentlemen was
speedwalking and the other othertwo runners I I recognized both
of them.
I'd seen them and the gentlemanthat was speedwalking, uh, we'd
seen at a different race.
So I knew him amed and and andI thought okay, they know what's
going on.
(26:37):
This speedwalking is going toget us to the cutoff, to the
next cutoff and about 3.4 milesout from the, from the, the
turnaround or the, the, thefinish line, where you check
your, your time check.
He looked at his watch.
He says we're not going to makecutoff.
What are we doing?
Oh no, and the woman and theother man took off at like like
(26:57):
a, probably a 10, 30 or 11minute pace, and I didn't have
that left in me.
Oh no, I ran 10, 30 or 11 minutepace and I didn't have that
left in me.
Oh no, I got as fast as I could, as a med did with trail
runners, because so I gotta takea break here real quick.
He didn't wait to step out intothe tree line real quick yeah
and I said, well, I gotta run.
Well, we all made that cut off.
How I don't.
Oh, I, I do know we ran like 11minute miles and that was the
(27:20):
only time in the 100 miles thatI that I caught my toe on that
little rock and I went out hardon my face and I still, I still
have a blood blister on my thumbfrom it that hasn't gone away
yet.
I I wiped out completely.
One of the other runners cameback to check on me.
I got back up, like I said, we,we finished it and then then we
made the cut off.
(27:40):
And once we made the cut offfor the last loop, it was nine
miles and we had, like, uh, twohours and 45 minutes to do it.
I'm like, well, we can walk itnow, like we're, we're, we are
within striking distance.
I said I'm not gonna walk itbecause I don't want to put
myself in a bad position, but it, it, it was, it was quite nice,
and so I, I guess, I, I guessI'd answer that I was concerned
(28:05):
when he looked at his watchbecause I was thinking the whole
time maybe my math is just offyeah and then we we took off at
a much faster pace than the,probably the 17 minute mile that
we were walking in his speedwalk.
We talked off, like I said, 11minute, 11 minute mile for.
So we cut 18 minutes off tomake sure we made that cut off
and we had about five minutes inour pocket to spare.
(28:26):
Yeah, it was a little to gothat far.
I was not to go 91 miles andmiss cut off would not have been
a happy day.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Ah, that would have really stuck with me for a long
time, I think, if that hadhappened.
So I totally feel you you goingfor that one, absolutely yeah.
Now.
So, having worked your waythrough, well, let me ask this
first, which parts of the racedid you struggle most with?
Because usually it's like mile30 and then maybe mile 70 or so,
(28:54):
and then you went through thenight, I think for the well,
maybe not for the first time,but certainly for the first time
, by yourself, potentially.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Yeah, so we'd done the whole route during the day.
But, like you said, so it's thefirst time by myself and the
route that I'd like during theday, I really didn't like at
night because I guess there werehills during the day and I was
fresh, so at night I did notlike those hills.
At night there's lots ofuphills followed by pretty good
(29:25):
downhills following the uphillsand probably like quarter-mile
downhill runs, and at nightthose aren't fun either.
They're scary.
At night, I mean, all I couldkeep thinking is I'm going to
fall.
I'm out here by myself and,yeah, I'll get back up and run
again, but I really don't wantto fall and go down hard.
(29:47):
It didn't happen.
I got lost, I mean a little bit, and one time I found myself
there were little little breaksoff the off the main trail and
they were probably only like 10or 12 feet in and it looked like
and I called them donkey brakeslike like the air brakes,
things that the trucks go up.
I called them donkey brakesbecause they were so small.
You could felt like two donkeysin it.
And uh, agatha, and I jokedabout that and I found myself
(30:11):
like I kind of shook my my headfor a second.
I'm like where am I at?
And I I mean I wasn't 10 feetoff the trail.
I have no earthly memory how Igot in there at that time.
It was probably three or four inthe morning by myself and yeah
it was a challenge, but, yeah,there were times at night when I
(30:37):
questioned my sanity and what Iwas doing.
And at no time did I see anygorillas off the path.
But we joked about that.
No shipwrecked either.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Yeah, absolutely those hallucinations, man,
they're, they're all.
All the rage these days, Iguess.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
So I hear um, but I, I did, yeah, it got.
It got a little bitquestionable right before
sunrise but but uh, fortunately,agatha, when, when she did stop
, it was pretty chilly out andshe wrapped up we didn't bring
sleeping bags because we didn'tplan on stopping Right, she's
wrapped up in a blanket out ofthe truck and just taco'd
(31:13):
herself up and when I'd come inshe goes.
You got to hear out of theinside of the big burrito, is
that you and she'd sit up?
Speaker 1 (31:29):
what do you need?
And she'd say, okay, you're notgoing to stay here long.
And she'd set up what he needand she, okay, you're not going
to stay here long.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
She'd push me back out again, which is beautiful.
So, having done your firsthundred miler, like what?
What surprised you most aboutit?
Would you say um, whatsurprised me most?
The ability, when you have toin nature, to to use nature to
go relieve yourself.
I did.
I, fortunately, from crewingAgatha a while back, I had some
emergency stuff for a trash bagand some wet wipes.
(31:54):
I just happened to have them inmy pack and that worked
wonderfully.
I wasn't anywhere near aportalette and I wasn't going to
go another 10 feet, but that'sjust.
I didn't.
I didn't know I had that in me,but I, yeah, at that point the
race was going to, the race wasgoing to happen.
I needed, I needed to takeanother step and take one more
(32:18):
step in my, my, my new learningand challenges.
And it worked.
And agatha chuckles she goes.
Well, everybody else probablydid that too.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
You still know that yes, it's, uh, I think it's a
rite of passage.
It's easier at night when theyou know, when you can turn your
headlight off and nobody cansee you back there in the, in
the bush or in in the trees yes,but exactly, but yes, it's
definitely.
I would say probablyeverybody's done some variety of
that.
You talked about Agatha alittle bit and her helping you
out.
How did it feel then to havethe roles reversed this time?
(32:51):
How was Agatha crewing you?
What was that experience like?
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Truthfully, I've had full confidence in her because
she had gone through the races,even if she hadn't known what
she was doing.
I finally understood theconcept of she offered me some,
some items of food when I camein and I finally understood
(33:19):
where she was at in the past,where I didn't want to make the
choices.
I wanted her to push something,and she picked up on that
pretty quick and said just justtake this, and you're going to
take it with you because you'vebeen eating this and it's been
staying down and you are havingtrouble eating this.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Nice Okay.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
And so she, she queued off on that pretty quick,
which was nice to have a crewthat understood where I was at
at that moment.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
yeah, minimize the the decisions that you have to
make exactly.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
And I, I think, I think you, you were with me when
we solved that out at moab,when the one gentleman didn't
want to.
They had choices for medals andhe didn't want to pick his
medal because that was anotherchoice at that point that he was
passed.
Yeah, that just give mesomething and make me not think
it was nice to finally join therest of you, getting a little
(34:08):
bit closer to folks like youthat I aspire to be one day.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Old and slow Glenn.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Is that what we're saying?
As a young man, I thought Ineeded to come in first.
As I age and get wisdom, Irealize that I need to finish
and there's nothing with thereal race that I see out there
(34:36):
for myself is finding anotherrunner that needs that pusher to
talk or to vent or just tocomplain, and that's okay.
Hey, I hurt, or this is goingon in my life, as we all
experience on the longer runs.
Okay, let's get through thistogether.
We're going to make it back tothe next aid station and we're
going to push on, and that's areally beautiful thing that the
(34:57):
longer the ultra runs allow usto do.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Absolutely, and did you have, aside from the
leftover TP situation, werethere any particular gear
choices or nutritional choicesother nutritional choices that
you made that worked well foryou on this race?
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Yeah, definitely.
I will say the gear choices.
I mean, I just have an eighthinvest and I would probably.
It worked for me because I knewwhere everything was at which
was nice For the Path Projectstuff.
I had a jacket with pockets andI love the Path Project shorts
that have pockets.
Oh yeah, those are great.
Yeah, I can put stuff in mypockets and I don't have to
(35:38):
think about where I'm going tograb that snack.
Yeah, bobo bars, peanut butterand jelly phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Do you know I have recently come across these Bobo
bars.
It happened at Swami Shuffle.
One of the ladies I was runningwith, elizabeth hey, elizabeth,
she had, well, her crew, herhusband, crewing had these Bobo
bars.
They had the strawberry onesand then the peanut butter and
grape, I think it was.
But I had never seen thesebefore, and so they were like,
(36:08):
yeah, try one.
So I'm hooked on those things.
I'm right there with you on theBobo bandwagon.
If that's a thing I don't know,I'm going to buy a whole box of
them and take them on the nextone.
They were great.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
The Bacryls have a box currently in our pantry.
I also learned the, the valuethat that I've been told so many
times by other runners.
Uh, the, the, the picking thesalt, salt tablets in in a
pattern or routine so you don'tget behind.
I don't think I don't.
I can't recall any, any legaches or any pains that I that
I've had on shorter runs, a muchshorter runs, for lack of salt.
(36:48):
Worst things were were I let mynutrition get a little bit low
and I got.
I got heavy legs.
And as soon as I clicked thatBobo bar or a or a cup of ramen
that was packed with carbs andit clicked me over the top I did
learn that cold pizza is not myanswer ever on a race.
My mouth will, or my mouth andthroat will not swallow cold
(37:09):
pizza, no matter how bad I wantthe pizza.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Oh, and you're totally missing out, totally
missing out on some cold pizza.
It's like the best thing, but Iget it.
I get it.
It's hard to swallow.
I don't know.
Nobody ever told me that beforedoing ultras, but it's really
difficult to swallow food.
At some point your throatdoesn't want to do it, which I
was not at all ready for when ithappened to me.
Now I know that was a weird onefinding that out for sure.
(37:36):
Do you think there was anythingthat you would have done
differently in your prep or racestrategy if you were going to
do this again, or for anotherrace, or for this race
specifically again?
For anybody else consideringdoing this race, what kind of
advice might you give them?
Speaker 2 (38:06):
My advice that I'd give them, if somebody were
attempting their first 100 miler, the fact that I had somebody,
agatha, who I could look to asan experienced runner.
If you can have somebody that'sout there with you crewing or
pacing you, that knows you, thatknows your strengths and
weaknesses and, fortunately forAgatha and I, we compliment each
other.
So when I have strength it'susually about the time she's
fading.
so for us running, as as for thefirst 55 miles as a couple, it
(38:27):
worked perfectly yeah you knowit's scary when, all of a sudden
, the the trapeze artist's netgoes away and you're only going
to see the net every every sixor 50.
Well, I guess 9 or 15 miles oror somewhere in between, or 12.
It I guess real scary.
But uh, it's, there's.
(38:47):
There's a lot that can belearned from the other runners,
though.
I mean I always I looked atsome of the other setups they
had.
We had a mat with our chairs onit and we each had a box for
food and that was perfect.
Yeah, I mean, fortunately itdidn't rain.
If it rained we would have beena lot more uncomfortable.
Changing clothes before dark ishuge.
Having just a dry pair ofclothes made me feel like I just
(39:11):
started the race again.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Yes, great tip that one Definitely change before
dark, actually before it getsdark Like while you can see what
you're doing change clothes.
Thank you, yes.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
You're 100% and like, while you can see what you're
doing, change clothes.
Thank you, yes, 100, and andthat that's what we did and that
that was.
We were going to wait anotherloop to do that, a shorter loop,
and whether it was it was god,god's purpose or whatever, I had
a blister and I said no, I needto change my socks right now
because there's some sand in mysocks.
I said I need to make, I needto look to check at the blister
out and we taped the blister andit was fine.
(39:43):
And I got other blisters when Iwas out there by myself, but
they were all recoverable.
There was so much I learned andtruthfully, I talked to Agatha
about it.
I need to write it down so Idon't repeat it.
There's a lot she'll help meremember and there's a lot that
we share, so I don't.
So I'm repeating this.
(40:04):
The lot shall help me rememberand there's a lot that we share,
like like a hanging, a hangingpack that we hang in a tree or
we hang on something that youcan see all your medicine on one
side and the other side hasfirst aid and you can see it on
little plastic, clear packets.
It's, it's for women'snecklaces or something like that
.
But it's, it's three feet longand it's wonderful.
You can see everything at onceand you just hang it in a tree.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
It's phenomenal that you can if you can get in and
out of an aid station.
I saw the truth of that, justbeing able not to spend my time
there, so did I want to sit?
I certainly wanted to sit inthat chair.
It was wonderful, and startinga course is always hard.
So that was the biggest lessonlearned is minimize your time on
(40:47):
aid stations, I guess, anddon't skip any food and pay
attention, make sure you'reright.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
There is so much time you can lose at an aid station
just faffing around, sittingaround.
You get to chatting with people.
Maybe there's a fire there thatyou're sat by, especially
overnight, and you're like, oh,this feels pretty good right
(41:13):
here.
You know, suddenly an hour anda half's gone by and you're like
, oh no, I gotta get out and Igotta actually keep going here
at some point.
So, yeah, so much time you canlose, but I think maybe not so
much in 100 miler, because Ithink most people can go through
one night and sort of come outon the other side.
But yeah, food, hydration, sleepin longer races and then
(41:38):
minimize as much as you can thataid station time.
Kind of know what you're doinggoing in, have a plan, as you
can, that that aid station time.
Kind of know what you're doinggoing in.
Like have a plan as you'reapproaching that aid station and
know what you need, get in andget out as quick as you can.
But yeah, I think that's that'sreally cool.
Are there more ultras glenn inyour future?
You know, are you going for ahundred or longer or are you
(42:00):
feeling the pull now back toback to road racing, do you
think?
Speaker 2 (42:06):
well and I'm not feeling the pull back to road
racing so much.
I will do more road marathons.
I definitely will.
I'm one of my birthday presentsthis year is I asked I want to
run the brain core marathon justbecause I've never run it, yeah
, yeah and I've heard it's aterrifically run race.
And and will I go back toHouston to run the marathon?
Yeah, because Houston doestheir marathons well.
(42:28):
Austin does most of their racesvery well, so I'll run more
road races.
But is there 125 miler in myfuture?
Yep, and I plan at some pointI'll be picking your brain some
more and asking you for somerecommendations, as well as
other runners.
And just, will I get to the 200?
I think I will, just becausewe're all created to push
(42:51):
ourselves and if we just sitwhere we sit, we're not going to
get any farther.
So God created us all to pushourselves and that's what I plan
to do.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
Well, goodness me, I applaud your bravery.
Having seen a few of us gothrough 200 miles, to put
yourself in that situation ispretty daunting standing on the
start line of one of those racesso definitely applaud the
effort to get there at somepoint.
I think you'll like it.
It's a life-changing thing whenyou go through it.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
But yeah, fantastic, I love it On a trail race.
I most definitely am and I'mokay with that's where I'm at.
On a trail race Might I getfaster, I might, but if it
doesn't happen, I'm okay withthat.
I like the back-of-the-packgroup.
I really do.
They're very personable.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Yeah, and I think one of the things I love about the
back-of-the-pack group iseverybody's cheering for each
other, as we've talked about.
But if you find you can gofaster or you want to go faster,
everybody's all in for that.
For you Like, hey, how do wehelp you go faster?
Nobody feels like it's acompetition or I'm not going to
give you some advice because Idon't want you to go faster than
(44:15):
me.
I just love that.
We talked about that a littlebit, but I think it's a terrific
place to be and, realistically,back of the pack folks we're
out there in some cases twice aslong as the elites that are
finishing.
So who are the real enduranceathletes?
That's what I will tell you.
We have to think about food andnutrition and sleep, and all
(44:37):
that for twice as long as thepeople at the front.
So it's double the stress anddouble the anxiety and no short
amount of physical effort.
So that's why I love doing thisstuff for Back of the Packers,
because all those people choseto do that.
They made a choice to go outthere, knowing that they were
going to have to put themselvesin that position and deal with
(45:00):
all of those challenges for anextended period, whether that's
a 50-mile, 100-mile, 200-mile,whatever.
Every single person made thatchoice, knowing who and where
they were from a physicalstandpoint, and I absolutely tip
my hat to every person thatgoes out there and stands on the
start line of these things,choosing to endure the name of
(45:23):
the podcast.
This is why right, Because Ijust think that choice, in the
society we live in, whereeverything is about ease and
convenience, where you can orderyour lunch on an app and it
gets delivered to your door, dosomething difficult.
Learn something about yourself.
Challenge yourself a bitdifficult.
(45:44):
Learn something about yourself,Challenge yourself a bit.
I love that aspect of it.
Now, Glenn, one of the thingswe like to do on the show as you
may know if you've beenlistening to an episode or two
is to invite guests to choose asong to add to the free Choose
to Endure Spotify playlist.
Typically, it's somethingfamily-friendly, something that
might lift you up, motivate orjust keep you moving while
(46:07):
you're out on the trail.
Did you have a song that youwould like to add to the
playlist, either from theGrasslands 100 that got you
moving, or just, in general, asong that resonates with you a
little bit?
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Well, the song that I'm picking is actually both
Awesome, so I actually I didn'twear music the entire Grasslands
100, either talk to people orwhatever.
I watched one individualsinging to himself because his
phone had died.
However, I went through an aidstation and they had my favorite
(46:44):
song by Elton John.
I'm Still Standing.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
Oh, brilliant.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
It, just it inspires me when I hear it Every time.
My daughter, aurora, her andAgatha and I were marshalling a
race a couple of weeks ago, thePrickly Pear 50K, and they were
out there singing it and itseems to inspire a lot of
runners.
I just it's, it's a quick beatand it's elton john.
(47:11):
I don't know that.
He knows how to do a bad songwell, no, for sure.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
I mean, everyone loves some elton john, don't
they?
And what a great message aspart of an ultra run as well.
Like I'm still standing, I'mstill here, right, the race
hasn't beat me yet.
I love that messaging, despitethe fact that it's a very what
do they call it?
Toe tapper you know, you candefinitely tap your feet to that
song, but I love the messagingbehind that too.
Great choice.
We'll definitely get that addedso that others can enjoy the
(47:39):
song just as much as you, and Idefinitely do.
Fantastic Well, as we look towrap up this episode if I don't
trip over my own little pebblethere, glenn, I think your story
is a terrific reminder thatstepping up from marathons to
100 miler road racing to trail,it's as much about mindset as it
(48:02):
is about mileage your abilityto adopt and adapt your training
, embrace those new challengesand then rely on your fantastic
wife as your support crew and gothrough the night unsupported
for the first time.
I think that just shows howachievable that leap can be.
So if you're listening and youare a roadrunner considering
(48:25):
running your first ultra, Ithink Glenn has some experiences
and some key lessons that youcan take with you.
Glenn, if there are folks outthere wanting to learn more
about the San AntonioRoadrunners or the off-road
trail team, where would they goto do that?
Speaker 2 (48:45):
So if they just go ahead and Google San Antonio
Roadrunners, the page will popup.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
Okay, cool.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
Not to be confused with the University of San
Antonio Roadrunners, which chosethe same mascot.
Oh who came?
Speaker 1 (49:00):
first San Antonio Roadrunners.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
Yeah, it'll pop up, and what it does if you
shootners, yeah, it'll pop up,and when it does, if you shoot a
coaching question, it'll go tomy mailbox.
However, it's a great group offolks, very encouraging On those
days you don't feel likerunning.
They'll be out there for you Onthe days you do.
Some days you'll be theencourager and some days you'll
be the encouragee, which is thebeautiful thing that I see about
(49:24):
running, and the bottom line iswe all get better and more
healthy when we're out there andwe're taking this opportunity
to get out on the roads or thetrails and run.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
Yeah, absolutely, Glenn.
Where do the roadrunners run?
Is there a location that thetrail runners go and the actual
roadrunning group?
Do they kind of base themselvesin certain areas?
Speaker 2 (49:46):
So they base themselves.
The road runners meet indifferent areas all around San
Antonio and then there's meetups.
If you go to the San AntonioRoad Runner page, there's
meetups that are free.
You don't have to sign up forthe group, you can just meet
other runners out there and theyget you some safety.
All right, cool, yeah, theoff-road runners.
A lot of times we do run withinSan Antonio, but a lot of times
we like to get outside of SanAntonio and hit some of those
(50:08):
Texas State parks which arebeautiful.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
Oh, out there in Bandera, exactly, that is a
really beautiful but verychallenging place to try to run
slash hike.
If you've ever tried to go andrun that race, the Bandera 100K
is held out there and boy, thatis some challenging terrain.
Make sure you put somethingover your legs, for those cacti
out there.
Love it Brilliant.
(50:31):
So, folks, if you're browsingthe internet, don't forget to
subscribe to the show here too,while you're looking for the San
Antonio Roadrunner link.
That way, you'll get notifiedeach time a new episode drops,
and if you're enjoying what youhear, definitely consider
following, sharing and leave areview.
(50:51):
That would mean the world to me.
Your support helps grow.
The podcast connects morerunners to this amazing ultra
community that we've beentalking about here with Glenn
and spreads the word to thosewho could benefit from the
information that we share withfantastic guests right here on
the show.
You can find us on Instagramand Facebook at Choose to Endure
(51:15):
, or you can visit us anytime atchoosetoendurecom.
I would love to hear from you,whether that is to say hello,
suggest a topic or share yourstory.
You can email me directly, ifyou'd like, at info at
choosetoeensurecom.
I absolutely adore interactingwith listeners.
(51:36):
Just like you, it's one of myfavorite parts of doing the show
, so definitely don't be shyabout reaching out and saying
hello.
And so with that I will sayuntil next time, run long, run
strong, go check out Glenn andthe San Antonio Roadrunners and
(51:59):
keep choosing to endure.
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