January 13, 2025 • 40 mins
*Note: Hopefully it’s not too bad, but apologies for my last 10 minutes’ sound quality, I had a technical problem with the mic, but still wanted to keep the audio and chat going!
In this episode of Choose to Endure, we spotlight the incredible Joni Watkins, a trailblazing ultra-runner from the San Juan Mountains of Colorado. Her story is one of transformation and triumph, culminating in her conquering a formidable 200-miles at Phoenix's 2024 Across the Years event. Joni opens up about the mental gymnastics and strategic planning it takes to navigate such grueling multi-day races, especially when your track is a repetitive loop. Her insights shed light on the unique psychological challenges posed by fixed-time events, where the mind battles as fiercely as the body.
We unravel the journey from weight loss to ultra-running, focusing on the delicate balance of training aggressively while maintaining a calorie deficit. Joni recounts how a series of below-par 50K races and a supportive circle of friends propelled her to set and achieve her ambitious 200-mile goal. Through tales of setbacks and resilience, listeners will gain a window into the adaptability and mental strength required to push boundaries and redefine personal limits.
Community support plays a pivotal role in the ultra-running world, and we delve into heartwarming stories of camaraderie and encouragement. Joni's narrative is interwoven with lessons on the importance of having a supportive network, whether it’s seasoned runners like Christine and Laurie or loved ones cheering from the sidelines. We offer practical advice on race preparation, training strategies, and the crucial role of rest and sleep, all aimed at inspiring listeners to connect with and become active members of the ultra-running community. Don't miss this episode if you're ready to be motivated by the extraordinary spirit of non-elite ultra running heroes.
Joni Watkins:
FB: https://www.facebook.com/jonimwatkins?
Instagram: @jonisjourneys
Across the Years Ultra:
https://www.aravaiparunning.com/across-the-years/
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info@choosetoendure.com
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https://www.choosetoendure.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome If this is your first time with us.
Thank you so much for stoppingby.
You are listening to Choose toEndure the show dedicated to the
non-elite runners, where weshare stories, interviews, gear
and training tips specific tothe tail-end heroes of the Ultra
(00:20):
universe.
My name's Richard Gleave.
I have been running ultras nowsince 2017 or so.
I have taken on and finishednumerous ultras, all the way up
through 220 miles, and I amunashamedly a member of the back
of the pack, just like many ofyou out there.
(00:41):
Now, today, I have anotherinterview for you.
We are joined by the amazingJoni Watkins.
Joni is a seasoned ultra runnerliving in the pretty stunning
San Juan Mountains of Colorado.
She has summited over 65 peaksabove 13,000 feet which is
(01:01):
pretty insane in of itself.
Thousand feet, which is prettyinsane in of itself and
completed more than 55 marathonsand ultra marathons.
Despite her love for mountaintrails, joni has a surprising
passion for flat, fixed timeraces, including her recent
milestone at the 2024 across theYears six-day event.
(01:24):
A dedicated member of therunning community, she's known
for volunteering at the HardRock 100 and supporting a whole
host of fellow runners out there.
Joni's story and her incrediblejourney to 200 miles for the
very first time at Across theYears is one you are not going
to want to miss, and we're goingto be back to hear all about it
(01:46):
right after this.
All right, joni, welcome to theshow.
Lovely to have you on.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Hey, thanks, richard, it's great to see you.
It's been a long time.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yeah, it's been a while.
How's the recovery after the200 miles?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Oh, you know it's going.
I'm going a little stir crazyover here, but you know, like
200 miles is one of thosedistances that you should
probably respect and give yourbody a break after.
So yeah, just doing my best torest and recuperate as I can.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Absolutely Now.
You had a great Facebook post,I think maybe right after you
had finished this race, and init you sort of teased a little
bit about your journey prior toacross the years and a little
bit of background on you gettingthere.
But I think we just start.
For any listener unfamiliarwith that particular race, Can
you kick off by just helping uskind of understand a little bit
(02:48):
about Across the Years as anevent, Sort of what is the race
format, what and where is it?
You know the atmosphere forthat event.
So what are we talking abouthere?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yeah, it's actually one of the oldest ultramarathons
in the country I believe itgoes back to the 80s but it's
basically a fixed time event.
They've diversified it a lot,but you can do everything from
six hours to six days.
They also do have a couple setdistance races and it's in the
middle of the city, so, forbetter, for worse, and you just
(03:21):
do loops.
Originally, when I firststarted doing the race, the loop
was pretty close to one mile.
In the past couple yearsthey've changed up their venue a
little bit and the loop hasbeen a little bit longer.
But it's basically.
The race is the ultimatecelebration of pedestrianism.
So it's a lot of fun because ittakes out the unknowns of is my
(03:46):
crew going to be able to findme?
Will I get lost?
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Ah right.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
You know things like that.
Like will I lose self-signal?
Like you don't have to worry somuch about that aspect of the
race.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Is that the reason?
I mean, you live in a reallyfantastic part of the country
and yet here you are.
You kind of like these races, areally fantastic part of the
country, and yet here you are,you kind of like these races.
Is that part of the reason why,or is there some other reason
that you really like these fixedtime races?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, I mean honestly , when I'm hiking around my
house, I don't mind being offthe grid and I take safety
measures for that.
However, when I'm racing, youknow it's especially being a
back of the pack runner.
It becomes a little too highstakes for me when you're taking
(04:31):
out cell phone service and youdon't have a guarantee of crew
or you might have to go 20 milesto the next aid station.
It kind of shakes my confidencea little bit.
And it's hard enough running 100miles or 200 miles, and if
anyone doubts that a one mileloop, a one mile flat loop, over
(04:52):
and over and over again, is anyeasier, it's not.
It's still hard, but for meit's nice to kind of take out a
lot of the unknowns.
So that is a big draw for mewhat?
Speaker 1 (05:03):
what is the surface journey?
Is it a concrete surface or isit on track?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
It's generally a mix of concrete and dirt.
So the last couple years, orcouple many years, they've had
it at two different springtraining facilities down in
Phoenix.
So part of it's like littledirt paths between the baseball
fields and part of it's concrete.
So there is a mix of that andit does, you know, for people
(05:30):
that are trying to train, bestsuited for the race.
You do need to do a bit of roadrunning, concrete running.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Yeah, and I've always thought like people look at
those races and think, oh, theymust be easier than running
through mountains and stuff.
But those races come with theirown set of challenges,
particularly mental challenges,Like if you're going around a
one, one and a half mile loop, Imean the amount of times you've
got to go around that for 100or 200 mile or over 72 hours or
whatever.
The opportunity to stop or tosit in your particular little
(06:02):
spot that you've picked on theside there at the start.
Finish must be reallychallenging to kind of push
yourself to keep going past thatand keep running loops when
it's so easy just to sit downfor 10 minutes and lose time
yeah, it yeah, and that'sanother part of the draw for me.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
I like the mental aspects of that, because I do
think that is where a lot of usback of the pack runners have to
pick up the slack a little bit,right.
Like we're not.
We're not these incrediblegifted athletes I mean, but you
can really get your mental gamein there and be slow and steady,
(06:42):
you know, and just knock outthe miles.
So yeah, it's definitely itsown type of challenge, but I
kind of like it that way.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yeah, it's very cool and very different.
I love the different styles ofracing in ultra running, and
this is one that's pretty unique, I think.
Now, joni, what initially drewyou to across the years?
And then, how did you get tothe challenge of the six day
event, because I don't thinkyou've done that one before.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah, I mean I had dabbled in fixed time races
before, but specifically I waslooking to do my first 100 mile
race.
This was back in 2017.
And again, it's kind of like Isaid earlier.
You know I was I'm not fast ontrails.
I love trails but I'm not faston them, you know, and there's a
(07:33):
lot of unknowns when you're ontrails.
So it was like if I signed upfor the 48 hour race, I could do
my hundred miles and I wouldn'thave to be worried about a 30
hour cut off.
I wouldn't have to be worriedhow far my aid was.
I could have everything Ineeded right there.
So that's what drew me to it inthe first place.
(07:54):
And I went and I did my firsthundred miler and it took me a
little bit over 30 hours, but itgave me the confidence I needed
to then later do a moretraditional 100 miler.
You know, under 30 hours.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
And then, my friend, I had a couple of friends that
went with me that year and youstart meeting people and then
you know you go the next yearand you see those same people.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So yeah it kind of it , kind of hooked me, you know.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
So, yeah, it kind of hooked me, you know.
So I've been almost every yearsince then, except for a couple
of the COVID years, but it'sjust a fantastic race.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Excellent.
Yeah, I really can't say enoughabout how amazing it is,
especially if you're toying withlike a new distance goal or you
know you lack maybe a littlebit of confidence to reach those
goals.
I think that's where that styleof racing really comes into its
own Just giving you the time,like you said, without the
cutoffs, to make your own way toa new distance.
(08:54):
I think that's fantastic.
Now, in your post you madeonline, you mentioned that you'd
been for this year, maybetraining at a calorie deficit
which I think is pretty uncommonfor many runners.
How did you balance that whileyou were prepping for such a big
multi-day ultra?
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yeah, it was one of those things where I needed to
make losing a few pounds apriority.
You know, according to the BMIscales, which I know a lot of
people cringe about, I was obese.
You know it had been a tough.
Few people cringe about I wasobese.
It had been a tough few yearsfrom COVID and it was just hard
to get that under control.
And then, as a 40-year-old womanstaring down menopause, I knew
(09:35):
it wasn't going to get anyeasier.
So I really needed to get myweight in check and that was my
number one goal for the year wasto lose weight.
All of my other race goals werekind of let's see what happens,
but really it was.
If I wasn't feeling superenergetic, I would walk instead
of run.
If I was having a good daywhere I felt energized, then you
(09:56):
know I would do a little temporun.
It was really a test oflistening to my body and not
pushing myself into overtrainingand I think the key for that
was really dialing back theintensity, which for back of the
pack, it's fine to just gettime on your feet.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
In my opinion, Absolutely, because we're going
to be out there a lot longerthan most people anyway.
So I think just getting thetime in is great.
Now I think you had if I recallyou had a couple of 50Ks
earlier in the year.
How did those go?
Did you use those to makeadjustments when you were going
into across the years?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah Well, the first 50K I did behind the rocks in
Moab.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Oh, beautiful.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
It was beautiful, but I was dizzy the entire time and
basically I knew at the halfwaypoint that I just needed to
call it because it's not worthit, especially when you're out
there in the middle of nowhere.
I don't want to put myself indanger or make it any harder for
the race staff or anything likethat.
So I called that halfway.
So that was, you know,obviously a little bit of a
(11:05):
confidence drain, but it happens.
And then.
So the second 50K I did wasalso a fixed time race and that
was down in New Mexico and I hadreally hoped to do like 80
miles but you know, it was slowgoing and I had a friend hurt
herself so I stopped to help herand I was fine with calling it
(11:27):
then and I felt pretty good, butI also was like, okay, this is
walking a 50K, I've done it, butit takes a while, so it can be
a little disheartening whenyou're out there.
And then the third one I did Iwas also hoping for maybe like
100K, but it ended up being inthe in the 90s the temperatures
(11:48):
and there was no shade.
So, I actually did end upwalking the whole 50k that time.
So you know it's hard to likepoo poo because it's still a lot
of miles, but when you'rehoping to get back in the
hundred mile, hundred mile plusdistances it can be a little
(12:09):
jarring to your confidence.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
So hey, yeah, they all count.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
You know, I kind of went after that one in August.
I was like well, I'm just goingto try to focus on a hundred
miles at across the years.
I would love to get like 101miles because that would be a
distance PR for me.
Yeah, so that's really kind ofhow those affected me.
I mean, it was really kind ofthey threw me off a little bit.
(12:34):
But I just, like I said, I justkind of tried to keep meeting
myself where I was and not betoo hard on myself.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
So how did you get from there, mentally speaking,
to right across the years?
I'm going 200 miles.
You know you've been strugglingwith the 50ks almost all year.
What was the trigger for you toeven think about 200 miles at
across the years?
Or did you even know, going in,that that's what you were going
to go for?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Yeah, I did.
It was kind of a last minutedecision on the 200 miles.
It's like after that last 50Ktemperatures started dropping a
little bit and I had lost about30 pounds by that point.
So I was able to move faster,which was feeling better.
So my training started to feela lot better and I was hitting
(13:25):
times and goals that I hadseveral years ago when I was
maybe at the peak of my back ofthe packness.
So I was feeling veryoptimistic and it was about
three weeks before, across theyears, I knew I was going to do
72 hours and just try for 100miles.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
And I had just the best long run, Like everything
felt great.
My pacing was like even andperfect.
The whole time.
I felt like I could keep goingforever.
It was just like, oh my gosh, Ihadn't had a run like that in
years, you know.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
So I talked to my friends Lori and Chris who were
going, and they were like, youknow, I was like I think I want
to sign up for the six day, andthey were like, well, if you
don't do it you're going toregret it.
Just go for it and try it.
And you know, I told them I'mlike I feel like if I do the six
day I have to do 200 milesthough, because I mean, 100
(14:24):
miles in six days is still tough, but I think it's a little
easier than what I was going for.
And they were like no, no, youdon't have to do that, don't put
that pressure on yourself.
But of course, once it was inmy head, it was in my head.
You know you've got it yeah so,um, yeah, I made that pivot
pivot like three weeks beforethe race.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Wow, that's really close to shift that goal, but I
love it that you came off likeit was just based on this
amazing run that you had.
I think that's really cool andyou just jump, go for it.
I like it.
Now we talked about the 1.4mile loop course.
How did you mentally approachthat?
Because you've done this racebefore, so presumably you had
(15:08):
some ideas going in about whatthis was going to be like.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah, I think for me, honestly, it's kind of just
getting as many mentaldistractions lined up for
yourself as you can, you know.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Right right.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Download five audiobooks.
Download podcasts.
It helps to.
Honestly, the biggest thing isknowing people out there or
making a friend, Because yeahthere's times when you get bored
, but just meeting someone andtalking to them and walking with
them is such a mood boost.
So honestly, that was kind oflike.
Strangely, a goal of mine andmy friends this year was to just
(15:47):
make as many friends aspossible, which I know like it
sounds silly, but people that doultras a lot get it.
Just having that friendlyconversation or even
commiseration in the middle of arace can really distract you.
So, yeah, I mean, for me it'slike the 1.4 miles.
(16:08):
Yeah, it can get really boringand mundane, but you can always
like it's 1.4 miles.
I can be like oh, I can just doone more.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Oh, I can just do one more.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
You know Like it's also, you can break it up into
really small chunks that way,right.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
So let's get into the race itself.
Joni, how did your race playout?
Were there any standout momentsor any of those conversations
you had with other runners thatsort of kept you going?
How did the race go?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
I mean it went awesome.
Obviously it went great.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
I am very fortunate.
I'll just give a shout out tothe weather.
Unfortunately, we're having avery, very dry winter in the
southwest, including down inPhoenix, so there was no rain at
all.
The temperatures were perfect.
Sometimes it rains out thereand becomes a mud fest.
It's awful.
So that was a huge help.
But really it went great.
(17:03):
I mean my plan, my minimum goaleach day was to do 33 miles,
right?
So the math on that works outto 200 miles and I tried not to
think too far ahead of that,right?
But talking with my friends,it's like, well, you should
probably try to bank some miles,because who knows what's going
(17:24):
to happen in those last days?
Except we do know what's goingto happen in those last days,
which is you're going to feellike crap.
So, yeah, I tried to bank milesas much as I could in the early
days, but without overdoing it.
Still, you know, and I had astrategy I slept every night.
I slept about six to eighthours, except for the last night
(17:47):
.
So that's a lot of sleep.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
But it works for me Recovery.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
On.
The second day is the day myhusband started his 100 miler.
So I actually didn't meet myminimum miles that day.
So I got a little worried but Iended up making up for that.
And you know, also, by day twoI had a.
I had a bit of a an ankleproblem.
I say ankle but it's moremuscles in my front shin were
(18:17):
really starting to swell andache, I think, from all the
dorsiflexion on my foot, my toes.
So you know, every night it'sicing that and putting on an ACE
bandage.
I did make a visit to the medtent at one point and they
agreed that it just wrap thatthing and ice and keep going.
So yeah, I ended up finishingfive days and five hours.
(18:42):
So it didn't even take me thesix days, which was incredible.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Brilliant.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Yeah, yeah.
So I'd say for the most parteverything went really well.
I mean, you can kind of expectsome of the things to come up
like I mentioned, Like maybe youdon't get as many miles one day
or you have some aches andpains, but for the most part,
yeah, it went really well.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Well, I'm going to put a pin in your husband doing
his first 100 miles because Iwant to come back and ask a
little bit about that too.
But I think you mentionedearlier 101 would have been the
furthest you you have gone atthis point and you kind of blew
right by that and went to 200,which is a huge jump.
When you skipped past 101 andyou're hitting 120, was that
(19:24):
kind of in your head wow, I'm,I'm uh, way past what I've done
before here.
Was there any wobbles ormoments in there where you
thought I'm not sure about this?
Or did breaking it up intochunks take that away, because
it never felt like more than 100?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah, I think after I surpassed the 100 mile mark, it
definitely was a victory for me.
But at the same time I'm like,okay, I'm halfway to my ankle,
so don't get too carried away.
But you know, I think really Iwould say mile 70.
Mile 70 was when I startedhaving real bad pains in my shin
(20:04):
and I was like, okay, this is,I need to figure out what's
going on because I don't want todo permanent damage.
So that was a little worrisome.
But you know, I was able towork through that and my my leg
was responding well tocompression and ice and a little
bit of rest.
And then I would say like mile152.
It was like during one of theafternoons and even though it
(20:26):
wasn't crazy hot, it was, youknow, like 77, which you know
when you're running can bepretty warm and there's no shade
out there.
And I definitely had a momentwhere I was trying even though
they do count the laps for you Iwas trying to do race math in
my head, like if I do this manymiles this day and you know how
that goes and I wasn't doing agood job and I was like, wow, I
(20:47):
don't think I can do this andhonestly, I think that was the
first time I had thought thatthe entire race which is
actually pretty remarkable forme that it took my head that
long to go down in the dumps butI just took a break and sat in
the shade and sipped on a beer,which is the beauty of across
the years.
(21:07):
You can do that and love itwaited for it to cool down a
little bit and went back outthere and that kind of faded and
then at that point you're likewell, I'm just taking the miles
down to 200.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
So that's one of my secret weapons sipping on a beer
.
I'd like to do a beer every 50miles if I can.
I mean it's got electrolytes init's for hydration, it's got a
few calories going on in there,but really it's a mental thing.
It's just kind of break stuffup.
But yeah, I do.
I mean I genuinely like to do abeer during a race, which you
can't do if you're running amarathon.
Yeah, usually anyway.
(21:41):
Yeah, I think that's fantastic.
Now were your friends Laurieand Christine.
Were they running as well?
And they were helping youaround Like Christine?
Were they running?
Speaker 2 (21:50):
as well, and they were helping you around, like
how did their races go?
Yeah, so Lori and I actuallymet going to across the years
the very first time I went.
She's from the front range,denver, and that's where I lived
too at the time, so we kneweach other through mutual
friends.
She would hate that I'm evensaying this right now, but she's
a very accomplished ultrarunner, so, but she's a very
(22:10):
accomplished ultra runner, so,but she's also very nice, very
humble, very low key, which iswhy I say she would hate that
I'm bragging about her right now.
So she was there for my firstacross the years and really gave
me some very sound advice, justlittle tidbits when I needed it
, like during the heat of theday, you know, when I felt like
I just needed to keep crushingit, she'd be like just go sit in
the shade, Like it's fine, youknow.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Just little things like that, that don't take
yourself too seriously.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Yeah, sometimes it's nice to have that permission
just to go do it you feel likeyou should be out there doing
this stuff and it's nice to havelike the better runners out
there and be like no, you knowwhat.
It's perfectly okay to go sitdown for a while in the shade.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Right.
So she's been out there everyyear with me, so she's just been
a lot of fun and we've becomeclose friends that way.
And then Christine, or Chris,we actually met at going to a
different fixed time raceseveral years ago and, yeah,
she's also a very gifted runner,very good runner.
(23:12):
So she was going for 300 miles,so she was really crushing it
out there.
And Lori Lori got 170 miles andthree days, which was awesome.
I think she got third female.
But for her that was like Imean it was hard, but she was.
She was just out there havingfun, but Chris was really
crushing it and they're both soaccomplished and amazing.
That was like I mean, it washard, but she was just out there
having fun, but Chris wasreally crushing it and they're
both so accomplished and amazing.
(23:34):
But they always, like I said,they take time to give me little
nuggets of encouragement, butthey also encourage me mainly to
not take it so seriously andit's not to say like skip out on
training or do irresponsiblethings.
It's just having a lighterattitude and having more fun and
happiness during these racesreally makes a huge difference,
(23:57):
I've found, and I think it helpsyour performance honestly.
So I've just really appreciatedthat.
They're out there making youlaugh, making each other smile.
You know they'll give me littletips here and there making you
laugh, making each other smile.
You know they'll give me littletips here and there.
So yeah, they, they had greatraces and I was so glad that
they were there.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Fantastic.
Now I do want to go back toyour husband to shout out to
your husband Matt, is it?
Yes?
Shout out to Matt forcompleting his first hundred
miler out there.
How did that come about?
Speaker 2 (24:31):
And what was, what was, what was it like sharing
that experience together?
Yeah, so this is kind of afunny story.
He's he has come almost everyyear.
He's usually my crew.
We actually met at a runningclub, though, so we're both
runners, but he never reallyquite got into it as much as I
did.
He's's done on ultra years ago,so he's always been my crew,
(24:53):
which is really amazing.
He's really great and I'malways appreciative.
But last year one of ourregular friends who we see out
there her husband, had got it inhis head that he was going to
do 100 miles and he's not arunner, but he was like I could
do this, so he did it.
And he's not a runner, but hewas like I could do this, so he
(25:13):
did it, and my husband, mattseeing that was like, well, if
he can do it, I can do it.
So he was saying he was going todo it and we're all pumped up
for him.
And then, as the year went by,I was like, are you sure?
And he's like, yeah, I want todo it.
So I signed him up and he'sactive, he hikes every day right
out our backyard and he's ingood shape, but he is not
(25:37):
running.
He's not out there running andstuff.
So to say it was brave of him totake this on is an
understatement.
But he is just anunderstatement.
Yeah, but he is just.
He's so dedicated.
Once he set his mind on thatgoal, he was, he was doing it.
And it was kind of funnybecause during the race I
(25:58):
thought we would spend more timetogether, like I would do more
loops with him, but as the racewas progressing, he was really
just kind of like in his own, inhis own focus.
You know, like he had his earbuds in and he was listening to
podcasts and he had his ownspeed, and so I mean we maybe
did like five miles togetherwhen I thought he could really
(26:22):
need it.
But he, he was just very evenand he pulled it off, no problem
.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
And I laugh because it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
But you know, one of the things you learn is it's
mental right, and once he puthis mind to it like he just went
for it, so it was.
It was really amazing to watch.
And what's even more amazing isthat if you ask him now if he'd
ever do another hundred miles,he doesn't even say no, like he
might do it again if he'd everdo another 100 miles he doesn't
(26:52):
even say no, like he might do itagain one day Really, yeah,
yeah.
So yeah, it was a fun experienceto do that together, for sure.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yeah, I think that's really interesting, and you talk
about the mental side of itbeing the key to achieving that.
Just going from nothing to 100miles because you want to do it,
I think is just insane.
So massive kudos to Matt.
Maybe he needs to come on theshow too and explain his all
like how on earth he made thatchoice, but wow, what a great
(27:18):
effort.
Congratulations, matt, ongetting your first 100.
In addition, now is there anyother advice you would probably
give to somebody consideringmulti-day races like this?
Maybe don't start with 100miles, perhaps.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
You know how should people approach these multi-day
races.
You've obviously done quite afew of these now and across the
years, and maybe other ones too.
What is an approach that youthink would lead to success for
others, especially back of thepack folks?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Sure, and I will say Matt matt, even though he's not
a runner, he has been a lifelongathlete.
So you know it's not.
That wasn't like totally, Imean it makes sense, but yeah,
it was a little crazy.
Anyways, I'm saying it's notadvisable to run 100 miles on no
training yeah so I meanhonestly, I wish more people
(28:07):
would do these multi-day races,because I know a lot of people
question can I do a 50K, can Ido a 50 miler, can I do a 100
miler?
And it just for me, taking thepressure of time out of the
equation, it's just.
It's so much different and it'sa totally different race out
(28:28):
there, different, and it's atotally different race out there
.
And you know, if you'rethinking about doing one,
they're all over the country,people do them everywhere.
Start small If you're.
You know, if you're trying to gofor 50K, maybe sign up for 24
hours.
That's doable.
You know, if you're trying todo a hundred miles, maybe do 48
hours.
So the best thing to do is togive yourself a lot of grace and
(28:53):
a lot of room when you'repicking this race.
And then, as far as training, Imean, you really are looking at
maximum time on feet and for mea lot of that is low intensity,
so a lot of walking because Idon't want to hurt myself if I'm
doing high mileage.
And back to back, try to do, tryto do 16 miles one day and 10
(29:17):
miles the next day becauseyou're doing a 48 hour race.
You know, and I would say maybepractice going out for your
morning run, maybe taking a napand then going out and doing
some more miles after.
Whether it's walking or running.
Trying to recoup from sleep canbe hard for people.
(29:41):
I know a lot of people.
Once they decide to go to sleepin a race, it's over for them.
But it doesn't have to be atall for them.
But it doesn't have to be atall, and I find for me,
incorporating a little bit sleepdoes wonders for recovery and
races like that.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
so yeah, I think those, those are my broad tips
from a sleep perspective, howdid that work for you at across
the years and have you refinedyour strategy over the years
that you've been doing this?
Did you guys sleep like?
Where did you guys sleep?
In the car or on the side ofthe trail?
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
How did you plan for that?
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Yeah Well, the first year I went you can rent a tent
and we had a tent and a cot thatwe would try to nap on, and I
have to tell you that was awful.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Oh really.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Mainly because it was cold.
But some people would say maybethat's not awful, because I
encourage you to not sleep toohard, but for me it was not good
.
So you can actually bringcampers to this event.
So there's a whole section ofthe course where everyone brings
their travel trailers or theircampers.
So we had our camper there.
(30:45):
So I could actually lie down ona really nice queen bed every
night, which again some peopleare like what, how do you?
Like I would never be able toget back up.
But for me it's like I can'tstay down because I lay there
and I'm like, oh, I gotta go domiles, you know.
I gotta get out there.
So that is huge for me.
(31:05):
If you can find a race whereyou can make your sleep as
comfortable as possible, thatwould be great.
I would not recommend going toa hotel, because once you leave
the premises that's hard to getback out there.
And then for napping sometimeswe would just use those zero
gravity chairs.
I'm sure you've seen themaround.
Those things are incredible.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Very comfy.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
So, yeah, that's a good happy medium between
sleeping in a bed and sleepingon the ground.
I would recommend those thingsbecause they're great.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Now I think you said you slept six to eight hours
each night, maybe, or close to.
Was that a plan going in?
This is what I'm going to do,or that's just how it how it
played out.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
That's kind of how it played out.
The last night I didn't sleepvery much because I wanted to
get out there and hammer it downthe first night.
I just knew.
I mean, I knew I had plenty ofdays left, so the eight hours
was probably a bit much, but itfelt great.
So I went with it.
And every night after that, you, I was a little weary that
(32:08):
maybe I'd sleep too long, so Ijust set an alarm.
But yeah, it was kind of kindof playing it by ear with that.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
I was going to add too that I think for these
looped races, these fixed timeloop races, those to me are
easier to train for, perhapsbecause most, most of us can
find a mile loop around ourneighborhood and typically
they're not on technical terrain, garage or some you know
(32:41):
somewhere close with a littletable or something and just kind
of do loops, go in for a breakand do something else and come
back and do some more one mileloops around your neighborhood
wherever.
I just feel like you know.
From a training perspective,most of us can figure out a way
to train for those races whereyou know if you're going up into
the colorado mountains ontechnical terrain, you really
need some specific training orexperience to help you out with
(33:04):
that.
That's much more difficult totrain for when you, like me, if
you live in a flat place likeHouston, that's a challenge to
try to train for a mountain racelike that.
So I think one of the otherappeals of this race for the
large majority, especially us inthe back of the back, is that I
feel like it's less complicatedto train for we can all figure
(33:26):
out a one mile loop and work,work from there absolutely, and
I am the type of person where Idon't love those vests.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
I wear them for hiking and stuff, but they tend
to like give me tension in myneck.
So for training for this racethere's a loop downtown and I
just leave my water bottle on mycar and go do that loop and
grab a snack, grab my water as Ican.
So yeah it's kind of like a nobrainer.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Absolutely so, joni.
What's next for you?
What have you got dreamed upfor 2025?
Where can we find you guys?
Maybe even Matt, who knows?
What do you guys got lined up?
Speaker 2 (34:25):
in April.
So once I get healed up here Ineed to start climbing, which I
don't love the mountain races,but I do them because it pushes
me out of my comfort zone andit's something a little
different.
But in terms of big goals, I'mjust not sure.
I'm going to see where thisyear takes me and see where my
training goes.
I like training so I'll keepdoing that and then kind of
(34:47):
eyeball some races and maybesign up to them closer to then.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Yeah, I'm a big fan of consistency and training and
just being ready to jump intoanything.
Really, you know, just keep thatbase level going going and it's
amazing what you can do withjust a small amount of training
if you're consistent with itabsolutely now, one of the
things, joni, we do on thepodcast here is encourage guests
(35:12):
to choose a song to add to thefree Spotify choose to endure
playlist, usually somethingfamily friendly, to lift you up,
motivate or just keep youmoving while you're out on the
trail.
Now you picked a prettyinteresting song.
Do you want to tell us whichone you chose and maybe why it
(35:35):
resonated with you?
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Yeah, I picked Glorious by Macklemore.
I actually don't listen toMacklemore that much, except for
when I'm running, but this songspecifically focuses on you
know, the first lyric is I'mback, but I never left.
So it's one of those thingswhere it's like I've felt like
(35:58):
there's been times where Iwasn't in the best shape or I
couldn't perform like I wantedto, but now I feel like I'm back
.
It's kind of corny, but thewhole song kind of talks about
that and it talks about whatmatters in life is the legacy
you leave.
The lyrics are that he feelsglorious, so it's just one of
(36:23):
those things where I listen toit.
When I'm running, it's hard notto feel the same.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Yeah, fabulous song.
I did give it a listen.
So, folks, if you haven't heardGlorious by Macklemore yet,
definitely go out and check itout on wherever you get music.
I'm sure it's available on anyof the main players.
We will get that added here tothe playlist on Spotify so that
folks out there can enjoy thesong as much as you do.
(36:49):
Joni, thank you so much againfor joining us and sharing today
.
Joni's journey at Across Yearsfor me, is a real testament to
resilience, community and thepower of setting an ambitious
goal, From overcoming some kindof personal challenges to
(37:10):
rediscovering her strength.
I think Joni's story highlightsreally what it means to choose
to endure, whether it's eitherpushing through those tough
moments or leaning on incredibleultra running friends, or even
sharing the experience with herhusband as he achieved his first
hundred miles.
I think Joni's adventurereminds us all of the value of
(37:34):
persistence and believing inwhat once felt impossible.
Before we wrap up, Joni, do youwant to let listeners know
where they can go to find outmore about your journey or
follow along on future races?
Do you post on Facebook orInstagram or anywhere else?
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Yeah, I do post on Instagram and Facebook.
My Instagram handle is Joni'sJourneys.
Then you can find me onFacebook under Joni Watkins.
I'd be happy to connect withany other runners or aspiring
runners anyone.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Brilliant.
Thank you.
Well, I will include thoselinks in the show notes for
anybody out there that mightwant to reach out and listeners.
While you're off browsing theinternet looking for Joni, don't
forget to subscribe to thisshow as well, and that way
you'll get notified each time anew episode like this one drops
(38:33):
and hits the floor.
And if you are enjoying whatyou hear, please follow, share
and maybe even leave a review.
Your support helps grow thepodcast, connects more runners
to this amazing community andhelps share the information that
amazing folks like joni give uptheir time to come and talk to
(38:53):
us about.
You can find us on instagramand facebook as well, and
youtube podcasts all at Chooseto Endure, or visit us anytime
at choosetoeendurecom.
I love to hear from you guys,whether that's just saying hello
, suggesting a topic or sharingyour story.
You can email me directly atinfo at choosetoeendurecom as
(39:19):
well.
Interacting with listeners likeyou guys is one of my favorite
parts of doing the show and Ireally look forward to hearing
from all of you.
So until next time, make sureyou run long, run strong like
Joni, and keep choosing toendure.
Hello and welcome If this is your first time with us.
Thank you so much for stoppingby.
You are listening to Choose toEndure the show dedicated to the
non-elite runners, where weshare stories, interviews, gear
and training tips specific tothe tail-end heroes of the Ultra
(00:20):
universe.
My name's Richard Gleave.
I have been running ultras nowsince 2017 or so.
I have taken on and finishednumerous ultras, all the way up
through 220 miles, and I amunashamedly a member of the back
of the pack, just like many ofyou out there.
(00:41):
Now, today, I have anotherinterview for you.
We are joined by the amazingJoni Watkins.
Joni is a seasoned ultra runnerliving in the pretty stunning
San Juan Mountains of Colorado.
She has summited over 65 peaksabove 13,000 feet which is
(01:01):
pretty insane in of itself.
Thousand feet, which is prettyinsane in of itself and
completed more than 55 marathonsand ultra marathons.
Despite her love for mountaintrails, joni has a surprising
passion for flat, fixed timeraces, including her recent
milestone at the 2024 across theYears six-day event.
(01:24):
A dedicated member of therunning community, she's known
for volunteering at the HardRock 100 and supporting a whole
host of fellow runners out there.
Joni's story and her incrediblejourney to 200 miles for the
very first time at Across theYears is one you are not going
to want to miss, and we're goingto be back to hear all about it
(01:46):
right after this.
All right, joni, welcome to theshow.
Lovely to have you on.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Hey, thanks, richard, it's great to see you.
It's been a long time.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yeah, it's been a while.
How's the recovery after the200 miles?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Oh, you know it's going.
I'm going a little stir crazyover here, but you know, like
200 miles is one of thosedistances that you should
probably respect and give yourbody a break after.
So yeah, just doing my best torest and recuperate as I can.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Absolutely Now.
You had a great Facebook post,I think maybe right after you
had finished this race, and init you sort of teased a little
bit about your journey prior toacross the years and a little
bit of background on you gettingthere.
But I think we just start.
For any listener unfamiliarwith that particular race, Can
you kick off by just helping uskind of understand a little bit
(02:48):
about Across the Years as anevent, Sort of what is the race
format, what and where is it?
You know the atmosphere forthat event.
So what are we talking abouthere?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yeah, it's actually one of the oldest ultramarathons
in the country I believe itgoes back to the 80s but it's
basically a fixed time event.
They've diversified it a lot,but you can do everything from
six hours to six days.
They also do have a couple setdistance races and it's in the
middle of the city, so, forbetter, for worse, and you just
(03:21):
do loops.
Originally, when I firststarted doing the race, the loop
was pretty close to one mile.
In the past couple yearsthey've changed up their venue a
little bit and the loop hasbeen a little bit longer.
But it's basically.
The race is the ultimatecelebration of pedestrianism.
So it's a lot of fun because ittakes out the unknowns of is my
(03:46):
crew going to be able to findme?
Will I get lost?
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Ah right.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
You know things like that.
Like will I lose self-signal?
Like you don't have to worry somuch about that aspect of the
race.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Is that the reason?
I mean, you live in a reallyfantastic part of the country
and yet here you are.
You kind of like these races, areally fantastic part of the
country, and yet here you are,you kind of like these races.
Is that part of the reason why,or is there some other reason
that you really like these fixedtime races?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, I mean honestly , when I'm hiking around my
house, I don't mind being offthe grid and I take safety
measures for that.
However, when I'm racing, youknow it's especially being a
back of the pack runner.
It becomes a little too highstakes for me when you're taking
(04:31):
out cell phone service and youdon't have a guarantee of crew
or you might have to go 20 milesto the next aid station.
It kind of shakes my confidencea little bit.
And it's hard enough running 100miles or 200 miles, and if
anyone doubts that a one mileloop, a one mile flat loop, over
(04:52):
and over and over again, is anyeasier, it's not.
It's still hard, but for meit's nice to kind of take out a
lot of the unknowns.
So that is a big draw for mewhat?
Speaker 1 (05:03):
what is the surface journey?
Is it a concrete surface or isit on track?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
It's generally a mix of concrete and dirt.
So the last couple years, orcouple many years, they've had
it at two different springtraining facilities down in
Phoenix.
So part of it's like littledirt paths between the baseball
fields and part of it's concrete.
So there is a mix of that andit does, you know, for people
(05:30):
that are trying to train, bestsuited for the race.
You do need to do a bit of roadrunning, concrete running.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Yeah, and I've always thought like people look at
those races and think, oh, theymust be easier than running
through mountains and stuff.
But those races come with theirown set of challenges,
particularly mental challenges,Like if you're going around a
one, one and a half mile loop, Imean the amount of times you've
got to go around that for 100or 200 mile or over 72 hours or
whatever.
The opportunity to stop or tosit in your particular little
(06:02):
spot that you've picked on theside there at the start.
Finish must be reallychallenging to kind of push
yourself to keep going past thatand keep running loops when
it's so easy just to sit downfor 10 minutes and lose time
yeah, it yeah, and that'sanother part of the draw for me.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
I like the mental aspects of that, because I do
think that is where a lot of usback of the pack runners have to
pick up the slack a little bit,right.
Like we're not.
We're not these incrediblegifted athletes I mean, but you
can really get your mental gamein there and be slow and steady,
(06:42):
you know, and just knock outthe miles.
So yeah, it's definitely itsown type of challenge, but I
kind of like it that way.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yeah, it's very cool and very different.
I love the different styles ofracing in ultra running, and
this is one that's pretty unique, I think.
Now, joni, what initially drewyou to across the years?
And then, how did you get tothe challenge of the six day
event, because I don't thinkyou've done that one before.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah, I mean I had dabbled in fixed time races
before, but specifically I waslooking to do my first 100 mile
race.
This was back in 2017.
And again, it's kind of like Isaid earlier.
You know I was I'm not fast ontrails.
I love trails but I'm not faston them, you know, and there's a
(07:33):
lot of unknowns when you're ontrails.
So it was like if I signed upfor the 48 hour race, I could do
my hundred miles and I wouldn'thave to be worried about a 30
hour cut off.
I wouldn't have to be worriedhow far my aid was.
I could have everything Ineeded right there.
So that's what drew me to it inthe first place.
(07:54):
And I went and I did my firsthundred miler and it took me a
little bit over 30 hours, but itgave me the confidence I needed
to then later do a moretraditional 100 miler.
You know, under 30 hours.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
And then, my friend, I had a couple of friends that
went with me that year and youstart meeting people and then
you know you go the next yearand you see those same people.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So yeah it kind of it , kind of hooked me, you know.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
So, yeah, it kind of hooked me, you know.
So I've been almost every yearsince then, except for a couple
of the COVID years, but it'sjust a fantastic race.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Excellent.
Yeah, I really can't say enoughabout how amazing it is,
especially if you're toying withlike a new distance goal or you
know you lack maybe a littlebit of confidence to reach those
goals.
I think that's where that styleof racing really comes into its
own Just giving you the time,like you said, without the
cutoffs, to make your own way toa new distance.
(08:54):
I think that's fantastic.
Now, in your post you madeonline, you mentioned that you'd
been for this year, maybetraining at a calorie deficit
which I think is pretty uncommonfor many runners.
How did you balance that whileyou were prepping for such a big
multi-day ultra?
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yeah, it was one of those things where I needed to
make losing a few pounds apriority.
You know, according to the BMIscales, which I know a lot of
people cringe about, I was obese.
You know it had been a tough.
Few people cringe about I wasobese.
It had been a tough few yearsfrom COVID and it was just hard
to get that under control.
And then, as a 40-year-old womanstaring down menopause, I knew
(09:35):
it wasn't going to get anyeasier.
So I really needed to get myweight in check and that was my
number one goal for the year wasto lose weight.
All of my other race goals werekind of let's see what happens,
but really it was.
If I wasn't feeling superenergetic, I would walk instead
of run.
If I was having a good daywhere I felt energized, then you
(09:56):
know I would do a little temporun.
It was really a test oflistening to my body and not
pushing myself into overtrainingand I think the key for that
was really dialing back theintensity, which for back of the
pack, it's fine to just gettime on your feet.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
In my opinion, Absolutely, because we're going
to be out there a lot longerthan most people anyway.
So I think just getting thetime in is great.
Now I think you had if I recallyou had a couple of 50Ks
earlier in the year.
How did those go?
Did you use those to makeadjustments when you were going
into across the years?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah Well, the first 50K I did behind the rocks in
Moab.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Oh, beautiful.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
It was beautiful, but I was dizzy the entire time and
basically I knew at the halfwaypoint that I just needed to
call it because it's not worthit, especially when you're out
there in the middle of nowhere.
I don't want to put myself indanger or make it any harder for
the race staff or anything likethat.
So I called that halfway.
So that was, you know,obviously a little bit of a
(11:05):
confidence drain, but it happens.
And then.
So the second 50K I did wasalso a fixed time race and that
was down in New Mexico and I hadreally hoped to do like 80
miles but you know, it was slowgoing and I had a friend hurt
herself so I stopped to help herand I was fine with calling it
(11:27):
then and I felt pretty good, butI also was like, okay, this is
walking a 50K, I've done it, butit takes a while, so it can be
a little disheartening whenyou're out there.
And then the third one I did Iwas also hoping for maybe like
100K, but it ended up being inthe in the 90s the temperatures
(11:48):
and there was no shade.
So, I actually did end upwalking the whole 50k that time.
So you know it's hard to likepoo poo because it's still a lot
of miles, but when you'rehoping to get back in the
hundred mile, hundred mile plusdistances it can be a little
(12:09):
jarring to your confidence.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
So hey, yeah, they all count.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
You know, I kind of went after that one in August.
I was like well, I'm just goingto try to focus on a hundred
miles at across the years.
I would love to get like 101miles because that would be a
distance PR for me.
Yeah, so that's really kind ofhow those affected me.
I mean, it was really kind ofthey threw me off a little bit.
(12:34):
But I just, like I said, I justkind of tried to keep meeting
myself where I was and not betoo hard on myself.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
So how did you get from there, mentally speaking,
to right across the years?
I'm going 200 miles.
You know you've been strugglingwith the 50ks almost all year.
What was the trigger for you toeven think about 200 miles at
across the years?
Or did you even know, going in,that that's what you were going
to go for?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Yeah, I did.
It was kind of a last minutedecision on the 200 miles.
It's like after that last 50Ktemperatures started dropping a
little bit and I had lost about30 pounds by that point.
So I was able to move faster,which was feeling better.
So my training started to feela lot better and I was hitting
(13:25):
times and goals that I hadseveral years ago when I was
maybe at the peak of my back ofthe packness.
So I was feeling veryoptimistic and it was about
three weeks before, across theyears, I knew I was going to do
72 hours and just try for 100miles.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
And I had just the best long run, Like everything
felt great.
My pacing was like even andperfect.
The whole time.
I felt like I could keep goingforever.
It was just like, oh my gosh, Ihadn't had a run like that in
years, you know.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
So I talked to my friends Lori and Chris who were
going, and they were like, youknow, I was like I think I want
to sign up for the six day, andthey were like, well, if you
don't do it you're going toregret it.
Just go for it and try it.
And you know, I told them I'mlike I feel like if I do the six
day I have to do 200 milesthough, because I mean, 100
(14:24):
miles in six days is still tough, but I think it's a little
easier than what I was going for.
And they were like no, no, youdon't have to do that, don't put
that pressure on yourself.
But of course, once it was inmy head, it was in my head.
You know you've got it yeah so,um, yeah, I made that pivot
pivot like three weeks beforethe race.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Wow, that's really close to shift that goal, but I
love it that you came off likeit was just based on this
amazing run that you had.
I think that's really cool andyou just jump, go for it.
I like it.
Now we talked about the 1.4mile loop course.
How did you mentally approachthat?
Because you've done this racebefore, so presumably you had
(15:08):
some ideas going in about whatthis was going to be like.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah, I think for me, honestly, it's kind of just
getting as many mentaldistractions lined up for
yourself as you can, you know.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Right right.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Download five audiobooks.
Download podcasts.
It helps to.
Honestly, the biggest thing isknowing people out there or
making a friend, Because yeahthere's times when you get bored
, but just meeting someone andtalking to them and walking with
them is such a mood boost.
So honestly, that was kind oflike.
Strangely, a goal of mine andmy friends this year was to just
(15:47):
make as many friends aspossible, which I know like it
sounds silly, but people that doultras a lot get it.
Just having that friendlyconversation or even
commiseration in the middle of arace can really distract you.
So, yeah, I mean, for me it'slike the 1.4 miles.
(16:08):
Yeah, it can get really boringand mundane, but you can always
like it's 1.4 miles.
I can be like oh, I can just doone more.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Oh, I can just do one more.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
You know Like it's also, you can break it up into
really small chunks that way,right.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
So let's get into the race itself.
Joni, how did your race playout?
Were there any standout momentsor any of those conversations
you had with other runners thatsort of kept you going?
How did the race go?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
I mean it went awesome.
Obviously it went great.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
I am very fortunate.
I'll just give a shout out tothe weather.
Unfortunately, we're having avery, very dry winter in the
southwest, including down inPhoenix, so there was no rain at
all.
The temperatures were perfect.
Sometimes it rains out thereand becomes a mud fest.
It's awful.
So that was a huge help.
But really it went great.
(17:03):
I mean my plan, my minimum goaleach day was to do 33 miles,
right?
So the math on that works outto 200 miles and I tried not to
think too far ahead of that,right?
But talking with my friends,it's like, well, you should
probably try to bank some miles,because who knows what's going
(17:24):
to happen in those last days?
Except we do know what's goingto happen in those last days,
which is you're going to feellike crap.
So, yeah, I tried to bank milesas much as I could in the early
days, but without overdoing it.
Still, you know, and I had astrategy I slept every night.
I slept about six to eighthours, except for the last night
(17:47):
.
So that's a lot of sleep.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
But it works for me Recovery.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
On.
The second day is the day myhusband started his 100 miler.
So I actually didn't meet myminimum miles that day.
So I got a little worried but Iended up making up for that.
And you know, also, by day twoI had a.
I had a bit of a an ankleproblem.
I say ankle but it's moremuscles in my front shin were
(18:17):
really starting to swell andache, I think, from all the
dorsiflexion on my foot, my toes.
So you know, every night it'sicing that and putting on an ACE
bandage.
I did make a visit to the medtent at one point and they
agreed that it just wrap thatthing and ice and keep going.
So yeah, I ended up finishingfive days and five hours.
(18:42):
So it didn't even take me thesix days, which was incredible.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Brilliant.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Yeah, yeah.
So I'd say for the most parteverything went really well.
I mean, you can kind of expectsome of the things to come up
like I mentioned, Like maybe youdon't get as many miles one day
or you have some aches andpains, but for the most part,
yeah, it went really well.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Well, I'm going to put a pin in your husband doing
his first 100 miles because Iwant to come back and ask a
little bit about that too.
But I think you mentionedearlier 101 would have been the
furthest you you have gone atthis point and you kind of blew
right by that and went to 200,which is a huge jump.
When you skipped past 101 andyou're hitting 120, was that
(19:24):
kind of in your head wow, I'm,I'm uh, way past what I've done
before here.
Was there any wobbles ormoments in there where you
thought I'm not sure about this?
Or did breaking it up intochunks take that away, because
it never felt like more than 100?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah, I think after I surpassed the 100 mile mark, it
definitely was a victory for me.
But at the same time I'm like,okay, I'm halfway to my ankle,
so don't get too carried away.
But you know, I think really Iwould say mile 70.
Mile 70 was when I startedhaving real bad pains in my shin
(20:04):
and I was like, okay, this is,I need to figure out what's
going on because I don't want todo permanent damage.
So that was a little worrisome.
But you know, I was able towork through that and my my leg
was responding well tocompression and ice and a little
bit of rest.
And then I would say like mile152.
It was like during one of theafternoons and even though it
(20:26):
wasn't crazy hot, it was, youknow, like 77, which you know
when you're running can bepretty warm and there's no shade
out there.
And I definitely had a momentwhere I was trying even though
they do count the laps for you Iwas trying to do race math in
my head, like if I do this manymiles this day and you know how
that goes and I wasn't doing agood job and I was like, wow, I
(20:47):
don't think I can do this andhonestly, I think that was the
first time I had thought thatthe entire race which is
actually pretty remarkable forme that it took my head that
long to go down in the dumps butI just took a break and sat in
the shade and sipped on a beer,which is the beauty of across
the years.
(21:07):
You can do that and love itwaited for it to cool down a
little bit and went back outthere and that kind of faded and
then at that point you're likewell, I'm just taking the miles
down to 200.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
So that's one of my secret weapons sipping on a beer
.
I'd like to do a beer every 50miles if I can.
I mean it's got electrolytes init's for hydration, it's got a
few calories going on in there,but really it's a mental thing.
It's just kind of break stuffup.
But yeah, I do.
I mean I genuinely like to do abeer during a race, which you
can't do if you're running amarathon.
Yeah, usually anyway.
(21:41):
Yeah, I think that's fantastic.
Now were your friends Laurieand Christine.
Were they running as well?
And they were helping youaround Like Christine?
Were they running?
Speaker 2 (21:50):
as well, and they were helping you around, like
how did their races go?
Yeah, so Lori and I actuallymet going to across the years
the very first time I went.
She's from the front range,denver, and that's where I lived
too at the time, so we kneweach other through mutual
friends.
She would hate that I'm evensaying this right now, but she's
a very accomplished ultrarunner, so, but she's a very
(22:10):
accomplished ultra runner, so,but she's also very nice, very
humble, very low key, which iswhy I say she would hate that
I'm bragging about her right now.
So she was there for my firstacross the years and really gave
me some very sound advice, justlittle tidbits when I needed it
, like during the heat of theday, you know, when I felt like
I just needed to keep crushingit, she'd be like just go sit in
the shade, Like it's fine, youknow.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Just little things like that, that don't take
yourself too seriously.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Yeah, sometimes it's nice to have that permission
just to go do it you feel likeyou should be out there doing
this stuff and it's nice to havelike the better runners out
there and be like no, you knowwhat.
It's perfectly okay to go sitdown for a while in the shade.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Right.
So she's been out there everyyear with me, so she's just been
a lot of fun and we've becomeclose friends that way.
And then Christine, or Chris,we actually met at going to a
different fixed time raceseveral years ago and, yeah,
she's also a very gifted runner,very good runner.
(23:12):
So she was going for 300 miles,so she was really crushing it
out there.
And Lori Lori got 170 miles andthree days, which was awesome.
I think she got third female.
But for her that was like Imean it was hard, but she was.
She was just out there havingfun, but Chris was really
crushing it and they're both soaccomplished and amazing.
That was like I mean, it washard, but she was just out there
having fun, but Chris wasreally crushing it and they're
both so accomplished and amazing.
(23:34):
But they always, like I said,they take time to give me little
nuggets of encouragement, butthey also encourage me mainly to
not take it so seriously andit's not to say like skip out on
training or do irresponsiblethings.
It's just having a lighterattitude and having more fun and
happiness during these racesreally makes a huge difference,
(23:57):
I've found, and I think it helpsyour performance honestly.
So I've just really appreciatedthat.
They're out there making youlaugh, making each other smile.
You know they'll give me littletips here and there making you
laugh, making each other smile.
You know they'll give me littletips here and there.
So yeah, they, they had greatraces and I was so glad that
they were there.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Fantastic.
Now I do want to go back toyour husband to shout out to
your husband Matt, is it?
Yes?
Shout out to Matt forcompleting his first hundred
miler out there.
How did that come about?
Speaker 2 (24:31):
And what was, what was, what was it like sharing
that experience together?
Yeah, so this is kind of afunny story.
He's he has come almost everyyear.
He's usually my crew.
We actually met at a runningclub, though, so we're both
runners, but he never reallyquite got into it as much as I
did.
He's's done on ultra years ago,so he's always been my crew,
(24:53):
which is really amazing.
He's really great and I'malways appreciative.
But last year one of ourregular friends who we see out
there her husband, had got it inhis head that he was going to
do 100 miles and he's not arunner, but he was like I could
do this, so he did it.
And he's not a runner, but hewas like I could do this, so he
(25:13):
did it, and my husband, mattseeing that was like, well, if
he can do it, I can do it.
So he was saying he was going todo it and we're all pumped up
for him.
And then, as the year went by,I was like, are you sure?
And he's like, yeah, I want todo it.
So I signed him up and he'sactive, he hikes every day right
out our backyard and he's ingood shape, but he is not
(25:37):
running.
He's not out there running andstuff.
So to say it was brave of him totake this on is an
understatement.
But he is just anunderstatement.
Yeah, but he is just.
He's so dedicated.
Once he set his mind on thatgoal, he was, he was doing it.
And it was kind of funnybecause during the race I
(25:58):
thought we would spend more timetogether, like I would do more
loops with him, but as the racewas progressing, he was really
just kind of like in his own, inhis own focus.
You know, like he had his earbuds in and he was listening to
podcasts and he had his ownspeed, and so I mean we maybe
did like five miles togetherwhen I thought he could really
(26:22):
need it.
But he, he was just very evenand he pulled it off, no problem
.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
And I laugh because it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
But you know, one of the things you learn is it's
mental right, and once he puthis mind to it like he just went
for it, so it was.
It was really amazing to watch.
And what's even more amazing isthat if you ask him now if he'd
ever do another hundred miles,he doesn't even say no, like he
might do it again if he'd everdo another 100 miles he doesn't
(26:52):
even say no, like he might do itagain one day Really, yeah,
yeah.
So yeah, it was a fun experienceto do that together, for sure.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yeah, I think that's really interesting, and you talk
about the mental side of itbeing the key to achieving that.
Just going from nothing to 100miles because you want to do it,
I think is just insane.
So massive kudos to Matt.
Maybe he needs to come on theshow too and explain his all
like how on earth he made thatchoice, but wow, what a great
(27:18):
effort.
Congratulations, matt, ongetting your first 100.
In addition, now is there anyother advice you would probably
give to somebody consideringmulti-day races like this?
Maybe don't start with 100miles, perhaps.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
You know how should people approach these multi-day
races.
You've obviously done quite afew of these now and across the
years, and maybe other ones too.
What is an approach that youthink would lead to success for
others, especially back of thepack folks?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Sure, and I will say Matt matt, even though he's not
a runner, he has been a lifelongathlete.
So you know it's not.
That wasn't like totally, Imean it makes sense, but yeah,
it was a little crazy.
Anyways, I'm saying it's notadvisable to run 100 miles on no
training yeah so I meanhonestly, I wish more people
(28:07):
would do these multi-day races,because I know a lot of people
question can I do a 50K, can Ido a 50 miler, can I do a 100
miler?
And it just for me, taking thepressure of time out of the
equation, it's just.
It's so much different and it'sa totally different race out
(28:28):
there, different, and it's atotally different race out there
.
And you know, if you'rethinking about doing one,
they're all over the country,people do them everywhere.
Start small If you're.
You know, if you're trying to gofor 50K, maybe sign up for 24
hours.
That's doable.
You know, if you're trying todo a hundred miles, maybe do 48
hours.
So the best thing to do is togive yourself a lot of grace and
(28:53):
a lot of room when you'repicking this race.
And then, as far as training, Imean, you really are looking at
maximum time on feet and for mea lot of that is low intensity,
so a lot of walking because Idon't want to hurt myself if I'm
doing high mileage.
And back to back, try to do, tryto do 16 miles one day and 10
(29:17):
miles the next day becauseyou're doing a 48 hour race.
You know, and I would say maybepractice going out for your
morning run, maybe taking a napand then going out and doing
some more miles after.
Whether it's walking or running.
Trying to recoup from sleep canbe hard for people.
(29:41):
I know a lot of people.
Once they decide to go to sleepin a race, it's over for them.
But it doesn't have to be atall for them.
But it doesn't have to be atall, and I find for me,
incorporating a little bit sleepdoes wonders for recovery and
races like that.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
so yeah, I think those, those are my broad tips
from a sleep perspective, howdid that work for you at across
the years and have you refinedyour strategy over the years
that you've been doing this?
Did you guys sleep like?
Where did you guys sleep?
In the car or on the side ofthe trail?
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
How did you plan for that?
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Yeah Well, the first year I went you can rent a tent
and we had a tent and a cot thatwe would try to nap on, and I
have to tell you that was awful.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Oh really.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Mainly because it was cold.
But some people would say maybethat's not awful, because I
encourage you to not sleep toohard, but for me it was not good
.
So you can actually bringcampers to this event.
So there's a whole section ofthe course where everyone brings
their travel trailers or theircampers.
So we had our camper there.
(30:45):
So I could actually lie down ona really nice queen bed every
night, which again some peopleare like what, how do you?
Like I would never be able toget back up.
But for me it's like I can'tstay down because I lay there
and I'm like, oh, I gotta go domiles, you know.
I gotta get out there.
So that is huge for me.
(31:05):
If you can find a race whereyou can make your sleep as
comfortable as possible, thatwould be great.
I would not recommend going toa hotel, because once you leave
the premises that's hard to getback out there.
And then for napping sometimeswe would just use those zero
gravity chairs.
I'm sure you've seen themaround.
Those things are incredible.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Very comfy.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
So, yeah, that's a good happy medium between
sleeping in a bed and sleepingon the ground.
I would recommend those thingsbecause they're great.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Now I think you said you slept six to eight hours
each night, maybe, or close to.
Was that a plan going in?
This is what I'm going to do,or that's just how it how it
played out.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
That's kind of how it played out.
The last night I didn't sleepvery much because I wanted to
get out there and hammer it downthe first night.
I just knew.
I mean, I knew I had plenty ofdays left, so the eight hours
was probably a bit much, but itfelt great.
So I went with it.
And every night after that, you, I was a little weary that
(32:08):
maybe I'd sleep too long, so Ijust set an alarm.
But yeah, it was kind of kindof playing it by ear with that.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
I was going to add too that I think for these
looped races, these fixed timeloop races, those to me are
easier to train for, perhapsbecause most, most of us can
find a mile loop around ourneighborhood and typically
they're not on technical terrain, garage or some you know
(32:41):
somewhere close with a littletable or something and just kind
of do loops, go in for a breakand do something else and come
back and do some more one mileloops around your neighborhood
wherever.
I just feel like you know.
From a training perspective,most of us can figure out a way
to train for those races whereyou know if you're going up into
the colorado mountains ontechnical terrain, you really
need some specific training orexperience to help you out with
(33:04):
that.
That's much more difficult totrain for when you, like me, if
you live in a flat place likeHouston, that's a challenge to
try to train for a mountain racelike that.
So I think one of the otherappeals of this race for the
large majority, especially us inthe back of the back, is that I
feel like it's less complicatedto train for we can all figure
(33:26):
out a one mile loop and work,work from there absolutely, and
I am the type of person where Idon't love those vests.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
I wear them for hiking and stuff, but they tend
to like give me tension in myneck.
So for training for this racethere's a loop downtown and I
just leave my water bottle on mycar and go do that loop and
grab a snack, grab my water as Ican.
So yeah it's kind of like a nobrainer.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Absolutely so, joni.
What's next for you?
What have you got dreamed upfor 2025?
Where can we find you guys?
Maybe even Matt, who knows?
What do you guys got lined up?
Speaker 2 (34:25):
in April.
So once I get healed up here Ineed to start climbing, which I
don't love the mountain races,but I do them because it pushes
me out of my comfort zone andit's something a little
different.
But in terms of big goals, I'mjust not sure.
I'm going to see where thisyear takes me and see where my
training goes.
I like training so I'll keepdoing that and then kind of
(34:47):
eyeball some races and maybesign up to them closer to then.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Yeah, I'm a big fan of consistency and training and
just being ready to jump intoanything.
Really, you know, just keep thatbase level going going and it's
amazing what you can do withjust a small amount of training
if you're consistent with itabsolutely now, one of the
things, joni, we do on thepodcast here is encourage guests
(35:12):
to choose a song to add to thefree Spotify choose to endure
playlist, usually somethingfamily friendly, to lift you up,
motivate or just keep youmoving while you're out on the
trail.
Now you picked a prettyinteresting song.
Do you want to tell us whichone you chose and maybe why it
(35:35):
resonated with you?
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Yeah, I picked Glorious by Macklemore.
I actually don't listen toMacklemore that much, except for
when I'm running, but this songspecifically focuses on you
know, the first lyric is I'mback, but I never left.
So it's one of those thingswhere it's like I've felt like
(35:58):
there's been times where Iwasn't in the best shape or I
couldn't perform like I wantedto, but now I feel like I'm back
.
It's kind of corny, but thewhole song kind of talks about
that and it talks about whatmatters in life is the legacy
you leave.
The lyrics are that he feelsglorious, so it's just one of
(36:23):
those things where I listen toit.
When I'm running, it's hard notto feel the same.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Yeah, fabulous song.
I did give it a listen.
So, folks, if you haven't heardGlorious by Macklemore yet,
definitely go out and check itout on wherever you get music.
I'm sure it's available on anyof the main players.
We will get that added here tothe playlist on Spotify so that
folks out there can enjoy thesong as much as you do.
(36:49):
Joni, thank you so much againfor joining us and sharing today
.
Joni's journey at Across Yearsfor me, is a real testament to
resilience, community and thepower of setting an ambitious
goal, From overcoming some kindof personal challenges to
(37:10):
rediscovering her strength.
I think Joni's story highlightsreally what it means to choose
to endure, whether it's eitherpushing through those tough
moments or leaning on incredibleultra running friends, or even
sharing the experience with herhusband as he achieved his first
hundred miles.
I think Joni's adventurereminds us all of the value of
(37:34):
persistence and believing inwhat once felt impossible.
Before we wrap up, Joni, do youwant to let listeners know
where they can go to find outmore about your journey or
follow along on future races?
Do you post on Facebook orInstagram or anywhere else?
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Yeah, I do post on Instagram and Facebook.
My Instagram handle is Joni'sJourneys.
Then you can find me onFacebook under Joni Watkins.
I'd be happy to connect withany other runners or aspiring
runners anyone.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Brilliant.
Thank you.
Well, I will include thoselinks in the show notes for
anybody out there that mightwant to reach out and listeners.
While you're off browsing theinternet looking for Joni, don't
forget to subscribe to thisshow as well, and that way
you'll get notified each time anew episode like this one drops
(38:33):
and hits the floor.
And if you are enjoying whatyou hear, please follow, share
and maybe even leave a review.
Your support helps grow thepodcast, connects more runners
to this amazing community andhelps share the information that
amazing folks like joni give uptheir time to come and talk to
(38:53):
us about.
You can find us on instagramand facebook as well, and
youtube podcasts all at Chooseto Endure, or visit us anytime
at choosetoeendurecom.
I love to hear from you guys,whether that's just saying hello
, suggesting a topic or sharingyour story.
You can email me directly atinfo at choosetoeendurecom as
(39:19):
well.
Interacting with listeners likeyou guys is one of my favorite
parts of doing the show and Ireally look forward to hearing
from all of you.
So until next time, make sureyou run long, run strong like
Joni, and keep choosing toendure.
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