August 24, 2025 • 35 mins
What happens when your purpose feels too heavy to carry? When the grief, burnout, or self-doubt start whispering louder than your confidence?
In this heart-centered and life-giving episode of Choosing Joy, Emmy-nominated journalist, media personality, and host of Healed Girl Era Gia Peppers sits down with Deborah Joy Winans Williams for one of the most raw, uplifting, and spiritually rooted conversations of the season.
From growing up immersed in Black excellence in D.C. and Maryland to navigating loss, therapy, and self-reinvention, Gia shares the full spectrum of her journey. She opens up about losing her grandmother, surviving depressive episodes, and how therapy and faith helped her find joy again.
Whether she’s talking about being on 106 & Park, the inspiration behind Healed Girl Era, or why joy must be an intentional daily choice—Gia reminds us: healing is possible, even in the middle of the storm.
✨ This episode is a love letter to every woman figuring it out in real-time. To every woman choosing herself, one sacred step at a time.
Chapters
00:00 – Intro & Sponsor Message
00:46 – Why Gia Peppers is That Girl
02:00 – Growing Up in the DMV & Black Excellence
04:00 – Howard University Influence & Community Impact
06:00 – Her Dad’s Legacy in Journalism
08:00 – Early Dreams of Hosting & Performing
10:00 – Inspired by Free on 106 & Park
11:30 – Interning with Donnie Simpson & Black Radio Roots
13:00 – Navigating the Cutthroat Industry with Kindness
14:30 – The Power of Representation for Black Girls
16:00 – Teen Girlhood, Beauty, and Identity Today
18:30 – Choosing Joy in the Midst of Transition
20:30 – Letting Go of Self-Doubt with Therapy
23:00 – Choosing Grace Over Pressure
25:00 – Joy as a Choice, Not a Feeling
26:30 – How the Pandemic Revealed Deep Emotional Shifts
29:00 – Grief, Loss & Losing Her Grandmother
31:00 – Breaking Generational Silence Around Mental Health
33:00 – Creating the Healed Girl Era Podcast
35:00 – Finding Purpose in Her Own Voice
37:00 – Vulnerability, Impact & Stepping Out in Faith
39:00 – Learning to Rest and Rebuild
41:00 – What Choosing Joy Looks Like Now
43:00 – Final Reflections & A Prayer for Joy
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
There is a certain like girl you can find home here.
There four hundred other people on this carpet, but in
these too.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Many good you will see you.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
And that's it.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
And that's my favorite part about finding us in all
these spaces.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Today we get to talk to someone who has talked
to everybody. She has talked to our Forever floatists, Michelle Obama.
She has talked to global icon Rihanna. She has shared
the stage and discussion with VP Kamala Harris.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Like she is. She is that girl.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
She is and one thing that I really really love
about her, and this is consistent every time I see her.
She is literally like a ray of sunshine. And that
is why I like to sit near her talk to her.
Just look at her pretty face. She's that girl and
we get.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
To talk to that girl. So please please welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
The one and only Jia Pepper to Choosing Joy Season one.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
I mean, you're that girl, Oh ma'am, come on that
girl to know that girl, well, you know what I appreciate.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
I'll take him.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
So happy to be here, thank you for having me.
I'm happy you're here too. And you just feel like
a homegirl, And I feel like that's that d C.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Yes, borner raised DC and then we moved out to Maryland,
so can't forget that. That's why I always moved out
to Maryland. So you really from if you're from Maryland,
if you really are a person from PG County, Moe County,
like there's certain counties. I love Baltimore, but I'm not
from Baltimore. That's why people always say the DMV because like,
there's my family. My mother's a third generation Washingtonian, so
(01:44):
I'm way more influenced by DC.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Culture than Baltimore culture.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Baltimore culture is actually very different from DC culture, so
there's a reason why. Like if you meet somebody from
the area, the area, Maryland terrible.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Like all those things, then that's gonna come out.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Like when I go home, I love talking to my mom,
but you're like, girl, that was terrible, that was just.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Thepy.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
So yes, when you say, when I say Maryland, that's
what I'm Yeah, it's Maryland, but it's Maryland.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Oh my god, I love it. Okay, all right.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Chould to the DNB period, Alaji, Regina Hall, all the girls.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
I love it. I love it, Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Okay, So tell me about growing up in that DC,
Maryland child everything situation, Like how did that shape you?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (02:33):
My gosh, it shapes everything about who I am. Like
d C was the chocolate city, so like you would
walk outside and it would just be black baby. I
mean from the time you entered into the corner store
to the time you went to the doctor's office, to
the time you drove down the highway, you would look
(02:53):
around and see black faces. And I know that people
have a certain view of DC if you look at
it from the point of of government and politics and
it literally being the centralized point of all decisions in
this country, right. But growing up, DC to me represented
a threshold and the spectrum of blackness and black excellence
(03:13):
and black life and black struggle and black beauty and
black arts. And so I didn't know that I had
a cap or a limit because my mom all of
her My mom went to Howard, and I rep Howard
so hard because I didn't attend school at Howard.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
I attended life at Howard.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
So like my mother is a is a graduate from
the dental school, now teachers at the dental school, So
like my whole life was Howard and then her dental
office with my godfather is around the corner from Howard.
So like when I tell people like, no, like I
understand that I did not get the degree from Howard
just yet, but like when I tell you, I went
(03:51):
to every arts camp, every writing camp, girl scout camp,
public speaking camp on Howard's campus. It is the reason why,
like I go so hard for Howard and HBCUs because
they don't just affect the people that are there for
four years and become official alumni Howard Spelman all them
have great, great impact in the community as well, and
(04:13):
it creates this space that is special. Like I didn't
grow up not having a black doctor or a black
lawyer or a black teacher. Like I honestly had no
idea that was rare until I left to go to
college and.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
I was like, well, you ain't even have no blames
my mother's blades.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
All my aunties are white doctors, like literally, like that
was kind of how I grew up in this very
beautiful black space. And I also had uncles who were
like in a halfway house, like yeah, you know, who
were struggling with drug drug substance abuse and alcoholism and like,
so you I saw the gamut black life and the
(04:52):
importance of giving people grace and the importance of showing
up for like who you can be all you can
be te So my dad's.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
A journalist, and that's where I got it, honest, okay, okay,
journalist Okay.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
I grew up watching him report stories for NPR and
AP and all these different huge companies, and I understood
the importance of having a person that looked like us
in the gap for these stories. So like, my dad
wasn't afraid to come back and tell us like, yeah,
somebody tried to call Trayvon a thug, and I was
like absolutely not changing, not wording in.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
This, in this story.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
And then I also grew up loving the arts, so
like I was the kid that you could not put
in time out because my room was my stage.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
So I was like time out, Sure, absolutely, I'll be back.
I have a soppy I'm performing, I'll be back.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
And eventually my mother said she would come in and
I would be hosting talk shows with my stuffed animals
and my dolls. And when I was a kid, I
was not a sleeper, so we would be up watching
our Senio Hall and some of my first words were like.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Come on. It just was all meant to be.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
I always tell people like, it's so much bigger than
what our callings. Our purposes are so much bigger than
anything that we can even tell in stories. Because there's
also this video of my dad telling the newsroom at
NPR that I was going to be a broadcast journalist
when I was two months old. Like he came back
and told my mom. We were sitting in our little
house and he was like, I just took Ga into
(06:21):
the newsroom today and I'm just cooling in my little
stroller seat and he's filming. My dad was the guy
with the huge cameras in the nineties. He's filming. He's
telling my mom like, yep, took Ga in there, and
she told everyone, it's going to be a broadcast journalist.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Mind you. I couldn't talk, I'm a baby.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
But I found that video thirty years to the date
of the filming, almost like two three days off, and
I just had to like literally break down, enjoy and
then gratitude for my journey because it hasn't been easy.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Like I was in a moment where I.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Was like throwing a towel, Okay, this is yeah, this
is clearly not what you want me to do. And
then I'm cleaning out my phone and I find the
video and it was literally like God being.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Wow, girl, this, thank you Lord. This ain't got no
just you baby, I'm using you for something that I need.
And so yeah that I think. I hope that answers
your question the long way.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
No, it was wonderful and we always need those gentle
reminders as to why God has placed us here.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
It's never just.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
About what you do in front of a camera. It
is that is literally the smallest part. It is who
you are outside of that. It is how you are
able to affect somebody in a small exchange. I remember
giving somebody a hug and they were just like, wow,
(07:45):
thank you. I was like, huh, that just really you
don't know how you're touching people, and you don't know
how God is using whatever it is to to change
or shift their day. And so it's always these little
reminders that that get us back on track.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
And I really love that. So you got it all, honest.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
You got your love for the arts, you got your
love for journalism, entertainment. What what was the moment where
you felt like, Okay, I'm gonna go for it.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
This is it.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
I think it was I think growing up, like thank
God for Bet in the early late nineties, early two
thousand and I didn't realize that one O six and
Parks started on nine to eleven, like actual nine eleven,
two thousand and one. Yeah, really, yeah, AJ and Free
had talked about it, but they actually started on nine
to eleven. So imagine being a kid and like coming home.
(08:41):
I'm sure none of us realized. Like I can't remember
being like, oh, I'm going home to watch one O six,
but I remember never not watching it from the time
like I was eleven to fifteen sixteen, and I remember
watching Free introduce her video for Fighting Temptations, and I
(09:01):
was like, that's it.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
This is what I'm gonna know.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
I could see a dance I could introduce, like oh
video on my own show girl, that's it, and like that.
That was one of the main reasons entertainment journalism wasn't
as big when we were coming up, like it just
in the last decade has become like as crazy as
like literally it's all consuming, it's.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
A whole world.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
But what I love to see is that you know,
now we just have so many more stories and so
many more people committed to storytelling. But that was a
big moment for me where I was like, Oh, I
can do this, that that is absolutely something I can do,
and then it was later confirmed. I went to college
at Records University in New Jersey.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
It was cold, but I.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Chose that school because it was not too far from
home but also not far from New York, so I
could intern and work in between classes and.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Do my thing.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
And when I was coming up my first internship, it
was under Donnie Simpson at WPG in DC, which is
a radio station and pretty much you know BT like
Rahap City Days team some of the days everything was
filmed in DC, which is why I think that specialness
of the network was able to really be founded there,
Like one O six was the first show they did,
(10:19):
if I'm Not Mistaken was one of the first shows
they did in New York, so it became a different energy.
But that like grounded connectedness of the early days of
Rapsident and all those things were in DC, so a
lot of the talent who didn't move up to New
York at first would be funneled back into local radio.
So I got to like sit under people who were
the original VJ like Donnie Simpson, and I remember him
(10:41):
creating a space like he understood that his radio room
in those four hours, he determined how a person felt
at every time, so like it didn't matter if it
was Jill Scott, Kelly Rowland, or the mayor of DC
at the time, everybody left feeling lighter, like you watched
them walk out. And Donnie was just this ray of sunshine.
(11:01):
And in the times of you know, all this cutthroat
industry stuff and making the band was hot and all
those shows, that was like you got to you gotta
get over the next person, you gotta step on him.
Like Donnie was like, nah, come home and come get
some music and people joy and love, and he just
wanted to know how people were doing and what their projects.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
It was a beautiful natural curiosity.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
And so he also affirmed that I could do it
with kindness and not just like the cutthroat tone of
the industry at the time.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah, that's really that's special and it's necessary.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
You need to be able to see.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Your self represented speak, So being able to see free
at that moment and recognize, oh she does.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
That and can do that.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Oh I can do that too, Like that is what
we need growing up, especially as little brown girls. You
get to see yourself and be like, oh, well, if
they can do it, I can do it. But if
it's never been done, you know, thank God for trailblazers.
But it's like, how many do we need? We gotta
keep going, We have to keep letting these babies know.
Whatever your dreams, you got this, we got this, we
(12:10):
got this, and we're setting that village up for you
to continue to succeed.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
And that's what I love to see and also am
worried about in this time. It's like, who at eleven
years old, I had free and when I six s
toill a guy and there was a healthy teen culture
like I have Bowo in Romeo and Raven and Kyla Pratt. Yes,
like like I have the girls, okay, like I knew
what a teen could be. I knew a team could
be funny and silly and act like she had powers.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Like I loved that.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
I worry about who the teen girls look at right
now because there seems to be this real like open
black hole for teen content and you have baby girls
who now know how to put on a full face.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Yeah at eleven, yeah, like you ate that? But why
why you're why this is a long time.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Be a baby, be a baby child, And I'm like, well,
who do you I'll look at that's your age or
around your age, because I remember my teen girlhood was
so special, like it was just I was able to
be not quite an adult, though I wanted to be
very much.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
So it was like, mom, I'm growing.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
We always want to be adults until we are adults,
and then we're like, can I take a time out.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
The bills don't baby girls, wherever you are, the bills
don't stop.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
No, they don't care. No, they don't care. They live
your life, yes, live your life anyway.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yes, be happy parents, roof, eat all that food and
don't complain.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
I just asked you to come in on top.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
You know.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
That's it. That's it. Push it sometimes. Look sometimes you
outside this one, Okay, I push you sometimes.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Just get home safe, okay and take your grounding, give
that phone away.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
It'll be fine, be fine, you'll survive. But don't rush.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
And that's where that's what I worry about when I
get on socials and I'm.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Like yeah, yeah, yeah, And I imagine having a young
girl in this industry feeling like you got to keep
up and look like this and do that, and you don't.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Don't you don't you get to just be you? And
I think we have to take it back to.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Young women realizing who you are, what you are, how
you look, all of that is enough, your uniqueness, your beauty.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Nobody else can be you but you.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
And that was something that I loved understanding about myself
growing up. And I feel like you have that nobody
can be you but you, and there's something so special
and unique about that.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
So don't give that up.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
So my question, because I know you said that there
was a point where you were thinking, Okay, we want
to throw on the towel.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Let this come many points, many points, many.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
What has been that latest point of you feeling like, God,
is this for me?
Speaker 3 (15:04):
I need to throw on the towel?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
And how did you shift that perspective and find a
way to choose the joy in the midst of the struggle.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
I love this question because if we being one hundred
percent honest, I'm in the midst of that right now,
like in a moment where I'm like, Okay, this is life,
ABC deal, Like if I'm looking at a plate of life,
I'm at the buffet of life, and I'm like, Okay,
this is not looking like the same type of plate
I used to eat off of. And this is it's
(15:37):
like almost like a restructuring time for me, a transition
time for me, Like I am.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
No longer the young new girl in the industry.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
There's a whole new thread of new girls who are
killing it and doing amazing And so I often am like, okay, Lord,
like what do you want me to learn from this moment?
And I thank God for therapy. I thank God for prayer,
I thank God for church homes. I thank God for
people who are around that can give.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
You a soft place to land.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Shout out to Jovi Inzane, that's my sister is about
to put that book out, but a literal soft place
to land in the midst of hard moments in your life.
What I am grateful for and how I am choosing
joy right now is I am so proud that I
am not spiraling into a space of feeling like I
am not enough thankful to thank thank you to the
(16:34):
tools that I've learned in three four years of therapy,
Because usually in these moments of dry periods of things
not being as busy, would I would be so quick
to be like, all right, I'm not enough, this isn't
good enough, I'm not doing enough, And now I'm like
very curious about what this season is supposed to teach me.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
So now I'm like, Okay, I am tired. So I'm
going to take.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
The the break of the holidays and this moment to
be able to be like, I'm good. I'm going to
take a break, but also to really really understand that
there is a a I will come out on the
other side, okay, Because every single time that I've had
this moment, that energy was all consuming until it wasn't.
(17:22):
So now I'm like, okay, yeah, grow, We've been through
this before.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
We're not gonna spiral. We're not going to give up.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
We're not going to feel like what we have done
isn't enough, or what I have contributed isn't enough, or
that my work doesn't matter. But I am going to
take this as a as a moment to step back
and re engage in a way that's more more focused
on the lessons that I've learned and applying them so
that I could be better for myself in the future.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
M That's really that's really really good. It's very it's
very difficult to feel like you are going through something
that you've been through before. And it's because because you
question it. It's like, well, did I not learn what
I needed to learn? God?
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Like?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Why we this feels like a repeat, and it feels
like a true trying and testing of the faith that
you already thought you had.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
And it's like, well, you call him for more, you
ask him for more. Okay, what we're doing okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
But and and to be able to do that with
grace and with.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Joy I have found to be difficult.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
And there was a point where I had to recognize
it wasn't just going to come. It was gonna have
to be a choice I made. When did you realize
that joy.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Is a choice that you can make and you have
to make daily come on, Because I mean, if we
if we look at the world, man, if we look
at the state of the world, if we consume ourselves
with all that's going.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
On, there is rare joy.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
So you have to find it within yourself, within the
people that you love, within the people that you surround
yourself with on a daily basis, because if not this
this changing, ever changing, ever frightening, the world will have
you feeling like there's no point in even trying to
choose absolutely because girl, climate change, presidential races, all types
(19:31):
of things. It's so much noise all the time. And
so for me, I learned that lesson in the pandemic,
when it was like.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Oh wow, oh the world's done.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
So we just all and it's not a couple of weeks.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
We're indefinitely. The world never became never came back the same.
We are not the same. And I also think that
our country in the world did an en interesting job
of throwing everybody back outside without realizing that none of
us are really okay. Yeah, because we didn't get a
moment to grieve like pre twenty twenty.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Yeah, and then.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Like everything everything is different, everything shifted changed.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
We lost things, Yes, people like there.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Was a ticker on the news every day with people
passing away.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Yes, that is not okay.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
At all at all, And and and all of it
wasn't just from the pandemic, right.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
And then we not only had a viral pandemic, we.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Had a racial awakening reawakening.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Yeah, and then everything switched back like this.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Here we're back out and it's hey, guys, okay, ready
to go to work. Oh, just kidding, sad strike, Oh,
just kidding, right astro Oh, just kidding.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Companies are now downsizing d I what's that? Oh it's
a bad thing. What in twenty twenty everybody else?
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Yeah, we all had all the yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Don't put them out. A racer from your phone, got you.
So it's just like a whole different time. And so
I am so committed to giving myself grace in this
moment and giving others grace too, and being like, you know,
I might not have the capacity to show up today,
Give me forty eight.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
And I'm gonna be the friend, you know.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Yeah, and even for myself, Yeah, I don't know if
I have the capacity to put on that face today.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Give yourself forty eight.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
You might need the weekend to literally do nothing, like
that's okay too, That's a good weekend, absolutely doing nothing.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
So then what was when did the idea for the
Healed Girl era podcast? Because that is something that I think,
at least I can say for me growing up in Detroit,
growing up in church, growing up look with the people
that just had to survive and didn't always have all
(21:59):
the tools that we have today, that is very difficult
to talk about what you're going through to figure out
how to navigate in a way that is healthy for you.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
So when did that idea? And it's so wild.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
This is full circle because we've shot some episodes in
this space, and I love this space because it's so
homey and it's such a great space. And I actually
sat here with Sarah Jakes Roberts, who her conference is
the reason why he would growl. Era started like God
gave me that in the midst of a couple of
weeks before that, and I was like sitting behind Mama Tina,
(22:37):
Miss Tina Noles, I got stup calling her that you know,
growing up thanks to access granted and all the things
we think we.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Know them, but we don't, and we don't. We don't.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
So I'm over here calling with her, Mama Tina, that's
not my mama.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
I am so sorry. That's not your mama. I have
a great mama.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
That's Miss Tina Knowles and missus Kelly Roland and Miss
Michelle Williams there and praising and on the way out.
Kelly has often been a person that has offered that
safe space in a way that is even more heightened
because we all grew up loving her, so.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
For her to be like hey girl and really mean it,
yeah in.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Those spaces where you're like you're killing ron Yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
She's like I love you. How are you? And she
means it so over.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
She was one of the first like big celebrities I
met while I was interning at WPGC. So I had
seen her for literal like a decade at this point,
and so she, you know, like, Gea, how are you?
And I was just like, Hey, I don't want to
interrupt this flow or whatever that's happening, but I just
have to ask you, can I like sit down for
like a long form interview with you. I'd love to
like really really sit down with you. And she was
(23:45):
like absolutely, and she gave me her number and I
almost dropped my phone and I.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Was just like, oh, here we go. And I was like, well,
it's time to start this podcast.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
And the idea for it really came because I truly
believe that the millennial contribution of making therapy therapy an
important necessity for everyone's growth instead of something that's taboo
and hush hush and only go if you're a quote
unquote crazy or unstable like our old folks used to
(24:18):
say is the greatest thing that we have been able
to contribute to the fabric of the Black experience in
this country. And I totally believe that millennials kind of
stood in the gap to be the generation curse breakers
and to be the people that have the time to heal.
And that's only because our parents and their parents literally
worked so hard to survive and sacrifice, yes, that they
(24:41):
gave us the time to go to college to study
psychology to realize, wait, not talking about things is actually
harmful to your body, Like it'll break down neurological and
actual systems that are supposed to function because of stress.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Absolutely, and the things that you aren't saying literally be
they talking, they just talking in there.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
And so we wonder.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Why high blood pressure, diabetes, overeating, these stress ulcers, these
things are happening in normal in our community, but it's
really not normal.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
We're just not talking about it.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
And so for me, a Healed Girl era was the
space where we could go through the eras of people's lives,
like our public figures like Kelly Bowland and like Daniel
Brooks and the women that have been on so far,
because we know we still going but I think and
I want you on there too.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
We're gonna switch sides real quit.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
But I think what's amazing is to know that, like,
there are also therapists and people who understand the tools
that are black women too, and they're still we are
coming into everyone trying to unwrap their head around therapy.
So what I've found is a lot of women who
never tried it watch the show and are like, Okay,
so therapy is that like the worst decisions you can
(25:52):
make for yourself. And so I have on black women
therapists who are able to talk us through the tools
that we need to help heal ourselves and our.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Folks in our community too.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
And so it's been an amazing, amazing process.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
It's been an amazing healing work for me.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
It's a healing exercise because when you are so used
for used to people calling you for opportunities, you think
that anything you make won't resonate in the same way.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
And so I was like, no one will care if
I make a podcast.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
This is about to here, And I finally was able
to step out and do something that is fully from me,
fully from my heart, fully just something that I want
to give to women in the culture and so it has.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Been a journey, Honey.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
I am learning so much about myself, my work, cadences,
my people, like what I need from myself, what I'm
realistically good at, my strengths and weaknesses. Like I'm learning
a lot about being a boss. But it's been amazing
because I get women all the time who hit me
up and was like, yo, that interview. It was a
full circle moment at Women of All this year, like
(26:59):
two years later where a woman came up to me,
or a year later a woman came up to me
it was like I started therapy because of your interview
with Lovey and Jiie Jones, and I was just like,
heard you Lord, Yeah, we won't keep it because.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
It's those little reminders. It's those little reminders, and it's
about starting a conversation. I felt we are very very
similar because I have often been like and are they
Are they calling about a movie? Or are they calling
about But no, it's a it's trusting what God is
(27:37):
allowing other people to see through you and hearing that
and and and recognizing that confirmation.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
And starting conversations.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
That can allow people to hear something a different way,
see it a different way, and change something in their
life that is going to take them to that next
level where God wants them.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Yeah, it's a choice. Man, is joy is?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I saw this quote, but I'm gonna change it because
I like it's it's joy is not just the journey
but the destination. But I'm like, nah, it's not just
the destination. It is the journey. Like joy has to
be the journey. If you choose that every day, and
it's hard, it is very very difficult, very difficult. But
(28:25):
if you can find a way to choose it every day,
you're gonna enjoy the journey that gets you to that
beautiful destination. Okay, So one last thing, I'm gonna give
you three prompts and you can choose one for you,
and then you can choose one for me. Be kind,
So tell me one time you chose joy in your career,
(28:51):
or tell me one time you chose joy in your
personal life. Or tell me one time where you were
not able to find the joy at all.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Mm okay, one time.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
It's only one choose one thing, yeah, okay, Okay, Well,
I one time I wasn't able to find the joy
at all was when my godmother passed away. That that
was my my girl, my bestie, my cuen. I was
a very shady baby. What they what did we call
the Kaveah? Well, I was like, yes, girl, I don't
(29:28):
like these people either, But I immediately ran to my godmother.
There was something about her that I always felt like home.
When you lose that, yeah, in the midst of it,
I was twenty nine, I just it. It was right
before the pandemic. And when you lose that, something about
you shifts. Like when you especially as a person who's
grown up in a very deep.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Loving family and community.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Yeah, you know, like, Okay, you look to the north,
you got your mommy, you looked to this way, you
got your auntie, you got your god.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Like you know who's surrounding you.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
But when there's a door that's gone now, it really
does open a feeling of.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Loneliness. Even though all the people around you.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
There's just certain things you imagine, like I thought my
godmother was gonna be there at my wedding, Like I
really wanted her to see me get a talk show,
Like those are the.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Things and so the grief.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
I could not find the joy in losing her, And
I think I have learned now to look at it
as Thank god I was able.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
To experience her.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Thank God I get to love in the way that
she taught me to love. Thank God I even knew
that she loved me because I know what love feels
like in that way because of her. But man, that
first year, that first those first two years, I.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Could not find the joy.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
I legit remember, just like sitting in sadness, sitting in grief,
sitting in like the gray of even my own perspective.
And then that was six months before the world shut down.
She passes twenty nineteen. So maybe the depression is depression.
And that's when I got when I realized that I
(31:08):
was praying to God, don't wake me up tomorrow. I
was like, yeah, baby, were gonna have to go get
some help. And with the help, I was able to
find the joy again. So for any person that feels like, yeah, no,
I'm good if I don't wake up tomorrow, because doctor
Anita talks about this all the time, like there's a
there's the saved way to realize. There's there's a saved
(31:33):
way of realizing that things aren't right and you only
really know it in yourself because there's a certain shame
attached to church conversations. If you're like girl, you would
never hear somebody say I ask God not to wake
me up tomorrow unless they're in a very safe space,
because there's a certain shame, like, well, you didn't count
the Lord, you didn't count it all joy, And.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Sometimes you can't. It's just is what it is.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
It's just what it is, like sometimes it is so hard.
And God understood that. Like, I mean, my boy cried out, Lord,
why have you given me this cup? Like that, like
this is not a thing that people don't understand. But
for so long, I think our feelings didn't matter as
a community just.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Because we didn't have the space too.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Like literally, you walking outside and somebody might find you
as a harmful person because of the color of your skin.
You don't have the time to be depressed. Baby, You
got to get back home to get yourself And.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
I understand it, right, And I understand.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
That, and so I think when I was able to say, Okay,
something is really wrong. I don't like this and this
is worse than the depression episodes that I've had before,
let me fight to find help, and my help led
me back to joy. And so if you are in
that moment, baby girl, go to therapy for black girls,
go to Hilger podcasts, go to the therapy. There are
(32:50):
so many ways to find people who are looking for
ways to help you, even if it's just somebody that
you can call into.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
I'm not okay.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah, even watching this show, like what we consume in
those moments is also very important. So like you find
yourself watching one too many episodes of Longer order sbu.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Get cut it off? You got you might need to
cut that off. It's so good. Look, I moved to
a marathon TV whatever marisk is that girls.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Okay, I'm like, Ris could come save me, but look,
please find me. Okay, if anybody gonna find me, let.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
It be Marisia, so I said.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
I said, you know, when I moved to New York,
I was so like prepared, and I was like, oh,
look at that person.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Three o'clock. There's someone out there, someone acting crazy like
we I'm gonna take a uber. It's nine to forty five,
Like I was already. I tell my husband all the time,
I know how to keep my head on the.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Hello, because that's vu okay and stable.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Shout to you too, Marisco.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
You know they had it forever and so at the
end of the day though, when I noticed that I
have not moved from my couch, yeah you no long
time that that if I keep staying there, I'm only
choosing sadness. Choosing joy Sometimes it looks like choosing help,
choosing to choosing to show up for yourself. That's choosing
to try again, even if you only got that mustard
(34:08):
seed left.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Try, that's all you need. Try, that is all you need.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
And at the end of the day, as we talk
about church people, a lot of people can really just
be like, oh, well, look, God is not shocked. He
is not confused by how I'm feeling. This did not
take him by surprise. He recognizes what is going on.
So number one, remembering that God knows, remembering that even
(34:38):
though life is going to life, God is still gone God,
and He's gonna keep working it out. So you just
got to choose it. And that is very difficult to do.
But that's why we're here, Yeah, and finding ways to
choose it.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
And joy comes in the morning, and we're here in
the morning.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Amen, Amen.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
To that. On moments where I keep like maybe it's night, Yeah,
maybe that night is like a couple of days yeah,
but joy will come.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
It does come in the morning if I keep trying,
I keep praying.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Even if you only have one prayer, you have one
prayer in your heart, and.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
It's like Lord help. Yeah. Amen. Look that's a pretty
Joy comes in the morning.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
So it's time going to wake up. Uh, Gia, thank you,
thank you. You're amazing. I've learned so much from you.
I'm so grateful that I get to see you, that
I get to say I know
There is a certain like girl you can find home here.
There four hundred other people on this carpet, but in
these too.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Many good you will see you.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
And that's it.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
And that's my favorite part about finding us in all
these spaces.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Today we get to talk to someone who has talked
to everybody. She has talked to our Forever floatists, Michelle Obama.
She has talked to global icon Rihanna. She has shared
the stage and discussion with VP Kamala Harris.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Like she is. She is that girl.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
She is and one thing that I really really love
about her, and this is consistent every time I see her.
She is literally like a ray of sunshine. And that
is why I like to sit near her talk to her.
Just look at her pretty face. She's that girl and
we get.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
To talk to that girl. So please please welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
The one and only Jia Pepper to Choosing Joy Season one.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
I mean, you're that girl, Oh ma'am, come on that
girl to know that girl, well, you know what I appreciate.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
I'll take him.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
So happy to be here, thank you for having me.
I'm happy you're here too. And you just feel like
a homegirl, And I feel like that's that d C.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Yes, borner raised DC and then we moved out to Maryland,
so can't forget that. That's why I always moved out
to Maryland. So you really from if you're from Maryland,
if you really are a person from PG County, Moe County,
like there's certain counties. I love Baltimore, but I'm not
from Baltimore. That's why people always say the DMV because like,
there's my family. My mother's a third generation Washingtonian, so
(01:44):
I'm way more influenced by DC.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Culture than Baltimore culture.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Baltimore culture is actually very different from DC culture, so
there's a reason why. Like if you meet somebody from
the area, the area, Maryland terrible.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Like all those things, then that's gonna come out.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Like when I go home, I love talking to my mom,
but you're like, girl, that was terrible, that was just.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Thepy.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
So yes, when you say, when I say Maryland, that's
what I'm Yeah, it's Maryland, but it's Maryland.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Oh my god, I love it. Okay, all right.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Chould to the DNB period, Alaji, Regina Hall, all the girls.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
I love it. I love it, Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Okay, So tell me about growing up in that DC,
Maryland child everything situation, Like how did that shape you?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (02:33):
My gosh, it shapes everything about who I am. Like
d C was the chocolate city, so like you would
walk outside and it would just be black baby. I
mean from the time you entered into the corner store
to the time you went to the doctor's office, to
the time you drove down the highway, you would look
(02:53):
around and see black faces. And I know that people
have a certain view of DC if you look at
it from the point of of government and politics and
it literally being the centralized point of all decisions in
this country, right. But growing up, DC to me represented
a threshold and the spectrum of blackness and black excellence
(03:13):
and black life and black struggle and black beauty and
black arts. And so I didn't know that I had
a cap or a limit because my mom all of
her My mom went to Howard, and I rep Howard
so hard because I didn't attend school at Howard.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
I attended life at Howard.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
So like my mother is a is a graduate from
the dental school, now teachers at the dental school, So
like my whole life was Howard and then her dental
office with my godfather is around the corner from Howard.
So like when I tell people like, no, like I
understand that I did not get the degree from Howard
just yet, but like when I tell you, I went
(03:51):
to every arts camp, every writing camp, girl scout camp,
public speaking camp on Howard's campus. It is the reason why,
like I go so hard for Howard and HBCUs because
they don't just affect the people that are there for
four years and become official alumni Howard Spelman all them
have great, great impact in the community as well, and
(04:13):
it creates this space that is special. Like I didn't
grow up not having a black doctor or a black
lawyer or a black teacher. Like I honestly had no
idea that was rare until I left to go to
college and.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
I was like, well, you ain't even have no blames
my mother's blades.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
All my aunties are white doctors, like literally, like that
was kind of how I grew up in this very
beautiful black space. And I also had uncles who were
like in a halfway house, like yeah, you know, who
were struggling with drug drug substance abuse and alcoholism and like,
so you I saw the gamut black life and the
(04:52):
importance of giving people grace and the importance of showing
up for like who you can be all you can
be te So my dad's.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
A journalist, and that's where I got it, honest, okay, okay,
journalist Okay.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
I grew up watching him report stories for NPR and
AP and all these different huge companies, and I understood
the importance of having a person that looked like us
in the gap for these stories. So like, my dad
wasn't afraid to come back and tell us like, yeah,
somebody tried to call Trayvon a thug, and I was
like absolutely not changing, not wording in.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
This, in this story.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
And then I also grew up loving the arts, so
like I was the kid that you could not put
in time out because my room was my stage.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
So I was like time out, Sure, absolutely, I'll be back.
I have a soppy I'm performing, I'll be back.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
And eventually my mother said she would come in and
I would be hosting talk shows with my stuffed animals
and my dolls. And when I was a kid, I
was not a sleeper, so we would be up watching
our Senio Hall and some of my first words were like.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Come on. It just was all meant to be.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
I always tell people like, it's so much bigger than
what our callings. Our purposes are so much bigger than
anything that we can even tell in stories. Because there's
also this video of my dad telling the newsroom at
NPR that I was going to be a broadcast journalist
when I was two months old. Like he came back
and told my mom. We were sitting in our little
house and he was like, I just took Ga into
(06:21):
the newsroom today and I'm just cooling in my little
stroller seat and he's filming. My dad was the guy
with the huge cameras in the nineties. He's filming. He's
telling my mom like, yep, took Ga in there, and
she told everyone, it's going to be a broadcast journalist.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Mind you. I couldn't talk, I'm a baby.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
But I found that video thirty years to the date
of the filming, almost like two three days off, and
I just had to like literally break down, enjoy and
then gratitude for my journey because it hasn't been easy.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Like I was in a moment where I.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Was like throwing a towel, Okay, this is yeah, this
is clearly not what you want me to do. And
then I'm cleaning out my phone and I find the
video and it was literally like God being.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Wow, girl, this, thank you Lord. This ain't got no
just you baby, I'm using you for something that I need.
And so yeah that I think. I hope that answers
your question the long way.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
No, it was wonderful and we always need those gentle
reminders as to why God has placed us here.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
It's never just.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
About what you do in front of a camera. It
is that is literally the smallest part. It is who
you are outside of that. It is how you are
able to affect somebody in a small exchange. I remember
giving somebody a hug and they were just like, wow,
(07:45):
thank you. I was like, huh, that just really you
don't know how you're touching people, and you don't know
how God is using whatever it is to to change
or shift their day. And so it's always these little
reminders that that get us back on track.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
And I really love that. So you got it all, honest.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
You got your love for the arts, you got your
love for journalism, entertainment. What what was the moment where
you felt like, Okay, I'm gonna go for it.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
This is it.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
I think it was I think growing up, like thank
God for Bet in the early late nineties, early two
thousand and I didn't realize that one O six and
Parks started on nine to eleven, like actual nine eleven,
two thousand and one. Yeah, really, yeah, AJ and Free
had talked about it, but they actually started on nine
to eleven. So imagine being a kid and like coming home.
(08:41):
I'm sure none of us realized. Like I can't remember
being like, oh, I'm going home to watch one O six,
but I remember never not watching it from the time
like I was eleven to fifteen sixteen, and I remember
watching Free introduce her video for Fighting Temptations, and I
(09:01):
was like, that's it.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
This is what I'm gonna know.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
I could see a dance I could introduce, like oh
video on my own show girl, that's it, and like that.
That was one of the main reasons entertainment journalism wasn't
as big when we were coming up, like it just
in the last decade has become like as crazy as
like literally it's all consuming, it's.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
A whole world.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
But what I love to see is that you know,
now we just have so many more stories and so
many more people committed to storytelling. But that was a
big moment for me where I was like, Oh, I
can do this, that that is absolutely something I can do,
and then it was later confirmed. I went to college
at Records University in New Jersey.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
It was cold, but I.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Chose that school because it was not too far from
home but also not far from New York, so I
could intern and work in between classes and.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Do my thing.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
And when I was coming up my first internship, it
was under Donnie Simpson at WPG in DC, which is
a radio station and pretty much you know BT like
Rahap City Days team some of the days everything was
filmed in DC, which is why I think that specialness
of the network was able to really be founded there,
Like one O six was the first show they did,
(10:19):
if I'm Not Mistaken was one of the first shows
they did in New York, so it became a different energy.
But that like grounded connectedness of the early days of
Rapsident and all those things were in DC, so a
lot of the talent who didn't move up to New
York at first would be funneled back into local radio.
So I got to like sit under people who were
the original VJ like Donnie Simpson, and I remember him
(10:41):
creating a space like he understood that his radio room
in those four hours, he determined how a person felt
at every time, so like it didn't matter if it
was Jill Scott, Kelly Rowland, or the mayor of DC
at the time, everybody left feeling lighter, like you watched
them walk out. And Donnie was just this ray of sunshine.
(11:01):
And in the times of you know, all this cutthroat
industry stuff and making the band was hot and all
those shows, that was like you got to you gotta
get over the next person, you gotta step on him.
Like Donnie was like, nah, come home and come get
some music and people joy and love, and he just
wanted to know how people were doing and what their projects.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
It was a beautiful natural curiosity.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
And so he also affirmed that I could do it
with kindness and not just like the cutthroat tone of
the industry at the time.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah, that's really that's special and it's necessary.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
You need to be able to see.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Your self represented speak, So being able to see free
at that moment and recognize, oh she does.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
That and can do that.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Oh I can do that too, Like that is what
we need growing up, especially as little brown girls. You
get to see yourself and be like, oh, well, if
they can do it, I can do it. But if
it's never been done, you know, thank God for trailblazers.
But it's like, how many do we need? We gotta
keep going, We have to keep letting these babies know.
Whatever your dreams, you got this, we got this, we
(12:10):
got this, and we're setting that village up for you
to continue to succeed.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
And that's what I love to see and also am
worried about in this time. It's like, who at eleven
years old, I had free and when I six s
toill a guy and there was a healthy teen culture
like I have Bowo in Romeo and Raven and Kyla Pratt. Yes,
like like I have the girls, okay, like I knew
what a teen could be. I knew a team could
be funny and silly and act like she had powers.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Like I loved that.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
I worry about who the teen girls look at right
now because there seems to be this real like open
black hole for teen content and you have baby girls
who now know how to put on a full face.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Yeah at eleven, yeah, like you ate that? But why
why you're why this is a long time.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Be a baby, be a baby child, And I'm like, well,
who do you I'll look at that's your age or
around your age, because I remember my teen girlhood was
so special, like it was just I was able to
be not quite an adult, though I wanted to be
very much.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
So it was like, mom, I'm growing.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
We always want to be adults until we are adults,
and then we're like, can I take a time out.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
The bills don't baby girls, wherever you are, the bills
don't stop.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
No, they don't care. No, they don't care. They live
your life, yes, live your life anyway.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yes, be happy parents, roof, eat all that food and
don't complain.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
I just asked you to come in on top.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
You know.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
That's it. That's it. Push it sometimes. Look sometimes you
outside this one, Okay, I push you sometimes.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Just get home safe, okay and take your grounding, give
that phone away.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
It'll be fine, be fine, you'll survive. But don't rush.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
And that's where that's what I worry about when I
get on socials and I'm.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Like yeah, yeah, yeah, And I imagine having a young
girl in this industry feeling like you got to keep
up and look like this and do that, and you don't.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Don't you don't you get to just be you? And
I think we have to take it back to.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Young women realizing who you are, what you are, how
you look, all of that is enough, your uniqueness, your beauty.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Nobody else can be you but you.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
And that was something that I loved understanding about myself
growing up. And I feel like you have that nobody
can be you but you, and there's something so special
and unique about that.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
So don't give that up.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
So my question, because I know you said that there
was a point where you were thinking, Okay, we want
to throw on the towel.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Let this come many points, many points, many.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
What has been that latest point of you feeling like, God,
is this for me?
Speaker 3 (15:04):
I need to throw on the towel?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
And how did you shift that perspective and find a
way to choose the joy in the midst of the struggle.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
I love this question because if we being one hundred
percent honest, I'm in the midst of that right now,
like in a moment where I'm like, Okay, this is life,
ABC deal, Like if I'm looking at a plate of life,
I'm at the buffet of life, and I'm like, Okay,
this is not looking like the same type of plate
I used to eat off of. And this is it's
(15:37):
like almost like a restructuring time for me, a transition
time for me, Like I am.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
No longer the young new girl in the industry.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
There's a whole new thread of new girls who are
killing it and doing amazing And so I often am like, okay, Lord,
like what do you want me to learn from this moment?
And I thank God for therapy. I thank God for prayer,
I thank God for church homes. I thank God for
people who are around that can give.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
You a soft place to land.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Shout out to Jovi Inzane, that's my sister is about
to put that book out, but a literal soft place
to land in the midst of hard moments in your life.
What I am grateful for and how I am choosing
joy right now is I am so proud that I
am not spiraling into a space of feeling like I
am not enough thankful to thank thank you to the
(16:34):
tools that I've learned in three four years of therapy,
Because usually in these moments of dry periods of things
not being as busy, would I would be so quick
to be like, all right, I'm not enough, this isn't
good enough, I'm not doing enough, And now I'm like
very curious about what this season is supposed to teach me.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
So now I'm like, Okay, I am tired. So I'm
going to take.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
The the break of the holidays and this moment to
be able to be like, I'm good. I'm going to
take a break, but also to really really understand that
there is a a I will come out on the
other side, okay, Because every single time that I've had
this moment, that energy was all consuming until it wasn't.
(17:22):
So now I'm like, okay, yeah, grow, We've been through
this before.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
We're not gonna spiral. We're not going to give up.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
We're not going to feel like what we have done
isn't enough, or what I have contributed isn't enough, or
that my work doesn't matter. But I am going to
take this as a as a moment to step back
and re engage in a way that's more more focused
on the lessons that I've learned and applying them so
that I could be better for myself in the future.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
M That's really that's really really good. It's very it's
very difficult to feel like you are going through something
that you've been through before. And it's because because you
question it. It's like, well, did I not learn what
I needed to learn? God?
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Like?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Why we this feels like a repeat, and it feels
like a true trying and testing of the faith that
you already thought you had.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
And it's like, well, you call him for more, you
ask him for more. Okay, what we're doing okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
But and and to be able to do that with
grace and with.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Joy I have found to be difficult.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
And there was a point where I had to recognize
it wasn't just going to come. It was gonna have
to be a choice I made. When did you realize
that joy.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Is a choice that you can make and you have
to make daily come on, Because I mean, if we
if we look at the world, man, if we look
at the state of the world, if we consume ourselves
with all that's going.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
On, there is rare joy.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
So you have to find it within yourself, within the
people that you love, within the people that you surround
yourself with on a daily basis, because if not this
this changing, ever changing, ever frightening, the world will have
you feeling like there's no point in even trying to
choose absolutely because girl, climate change, presidential races, all types
(19:31):
of things. It's so much noise all the time. And
so for me, I learned that lesson in the pandemic,
when it was like.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Oh wow, oh the world's done.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
So we just all and it's not a couple of weeks.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
We're indefinitely. The world never became never came back the same.
We are not the same. And I also think that
our country in the world did an en interesting job
of throwing everybody back outside without realizing that none of
us are really okay. Yeah, because we didn't get a
moment to grieve like pre twenty twenty.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Yeah, and then.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Like everything everything is different, everything shifted changed.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
We lost things, Yes, people like there.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Was a ticker on the news every day with people
passing away.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Yes, that is not okay.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
At all at all, And and and all of it
wasn't just from the pandemic, right.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
And then we not only had a viral pandemic, we.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Had a racial awakening reawakening.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Yeah, and then everything switched back like this.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Here we're back out and it's hey, guys, okay, ready
to go to work. Oh, just kidding, sad strike, Oh,
just kidding, right astro Oh, just kidding.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Companies are now downsizing d I what's that? Oh it's
a bad thing. What in twenty twenty everybody else?
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Yeah, we all had all the yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Don't put them out. A racer from your phone, got you.
So it's just like a whole different time. And so
I am so committed to giving myself grace in this
moment and giving others grace too, and being like, you know,
I might not have the capacity to show up today,
Give me forty eight.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
And I'm gonna be the friend, you know.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Yeah, and even for myself, Yeah, I don't know if
I have the capacity to put on that face today.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Give yourself forty eight.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
You might need the weekend to literally do nothing, like
that's okay too, That's a good weekend, absolutely doing nothing.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
So then what was when did the idea for the
Healed Girl era podcast? Because that is something that I think,
at least I can say for me growing up in Detroit,
growing up in church, growing up look with the people
that just had to survive and didn't always have all
(21:59):
the tools that we have today, that is very difficult
to talk about what you're going through to figure out
how to navigate in a way that is healthy for you.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
So when did that idea? And it's so wild.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
This is full circle because we've shot some episodes in
this space, and I love this space because it's so
homey and it's such a great space. And I actually
sat here with Sarah Jakes Roberts, who her conference is
the reason why he would growl. Era started like God
gave me that in the midst of a couple of
weeks before that, and I was like sitting behind Mama Tina,
(22:37):
Miss Tina Noles, I got stup calling her that you know,
growing up thanks to access granted and all the things
we think we.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Know them, but we don't, and we don't. We don't.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
So I'm over here calling with her, Mama Tina, that's
not my mama.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
I am so sorry. That's not your mama. I have
a great mama.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
That's Miss Tina Knowles and missus Kelly Roland and Miss
Michelle Williams there and praising and on the way out.
Kelly has often been a person that has offered that
safe space in a way that is even more heightened
because we all grew up loving her, so.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
For her to be like hey girl and really mean it,
yeah in.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Those spaces where you're like you're killing ron Yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
She's like I love you. How are you? And she
means it so over.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
She was one of the first like big celebrities I
met while I was interning at WPGC. So I had
seen her for literal like a decade at this point,
and so she, you know, like, Gea, how are you?
And I was just like, Hey, I don't want to
interrupt this flow or whatever that's happening, but I just
have to ask you, can I like sit down for
like a long form interview with you. I'd love to
like really really sit down with you. And she was
(23:45):
like absolutely, and she gave me her number and I
almost dropped my phone and I.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Was just like, oh, here we go. And I was like, well,
it's time to start this podcast.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
And the idea for it really came because I truly
believe that the millennial contribution of making therapy therapy an
important necessity for everyone's growth instead of something that's taboo
and hush hush and only go if you're a quote
unquote crazy or unstable like our old folks used to
(24:18):
say is the greatest thing that we have been able
to contribute to the fabric of the Black experience in
this country. And I totally believe that millennials kind of
stood in the gap to be the generation curse breakers
and to be the people that have the time to heal.
And that's only because our parents and their parents literally
worked so hard to survive and sacrifice, yes, that they
(24:41):
gave us the time to go to college to study
psychology to realize, wait, not talking about things is actually
harmful to your body, Like it'll break down neurological and
actual systems that are supposed to function because of stress.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Absolutely, and the things that you aren't saying literally be
they talking, they just talking in there.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
And so we wonder.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Why high blood pressure, diabetes, overeating, these stress ulcers, these
things are happening in normal in our community, but it's
really not normal.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
We're just not talking about it.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
And so for me, a Healed Girl era was the
space where we could go through the eras of people's lives,
like our public figures like Kelly Bowland and like Daniel
Brooks and the women that have been on so far,
because we know we still going but I think and
I want you on there too.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
We're gonna switch sides real quit.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
But I think what's amazing is to know that, like,
there are also therapists and people who understand the tools
that are black women too, and they're still we are
coming into everyone trying to unwrap their head around therapy.
So what I've found is a lot of women who
never tried it watch the show and are like, Okay,
so therapy is that like the worst decisions you can
(25:52):
make for yourself. And so I have on black women
therapists who are able to talk us through the tools
that we need to help heal ourselves and our.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Folks in our community too.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
And so it's been an amazing, amazing process.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
It's been an amazing healing work for me.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
It's a healing exercise because when you are so used
for used to people calling you for opportunities, you think
that anything you make won't resonate in the same way.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
And so I was like, no one will care if
I make a podcast.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
This is about to here, And I finally was able
to step out and do something that is fully from me,
fully from my heart, fully just something that I want
to give to women in the culture and so it has.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Been a journey, Honey.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
I am learning so much about myself, my work, cadences,
my people, like what I need from myself, what I'm
realistically good at, my strengths and weaknesses. Like I'm learning
a lot about being a boss. But it's been amazing
because I get women all the time who hit me
up and was like, yo, that interview. It was a
full circle moment at Women of All this year, like
(26:59):
two years later where a woman came up to me,
or a year later a woman came up to me
it was like I started therapy because of your interview
with Lovey and Jiie Jones, and I was just like,
heard you Lord, Yeah, we won't keep it because.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
It's those little reminders. It's those little reminders, and it's
about starting a conversation. I felt we are very very
similar because I have often been like and are they
Are they calling about a movie? Or are they calling
about But no, it's a it's trusting what God is
(27:37):
allowing other people to see through you and hearing that
and and and recognizing that confirmation.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
And starting conversations.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
That can allow people to hear something a different way,
see it a different way, and change something in their
life that is going to take them to that next
level where God wants them.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Yeah, it's a choice. Man, is joy is?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I saw this quote, but I'm gonna change it because
I like it's it's joy is not just the journey
but the destination. But I'm like, nah, it's not just
the destination. It is the journey. Like joy has to
be the journey. If you choose that every day, and
it's hard, it is very very difficult, very difficult. But
(28:25):
if you can find a way to choose it every day,
you're gonna enjoy the journey that gets you to that
beautiful destination. Okay, So one last thing, I'm gonna give
you three prompts and you can choose one for you,
and then you can choose one for me. Be kind,
So tell me one time you chose joy in your career,
(28:51):
or tell me one time you chose joy in your
personal life. Or tell me one time where you were
not able to find the joy at all.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Mm okay, one time.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
It's only one choose one thing, yeah, okay, Okay, Well,
I one time I wasn't able to find the joy
at all was when my godmother passed away. That that
was my my girl, my bestie, my cuen. I was
a very shady baby. What they what did we call
the Kaveah? Well, I was like, yes, girl, I don't
(29:28):
like these people either, But I immediately ran to my godmother.
There was something about her that I always felt like home.
When you lose that, yeah, in the midst of it,
I was twenty nine, I just it. It was right
before the pandemic. And when you lose that, something about
you shifts. Like when you especially as a person who's
grown up in a very deep.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Loving family and community.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Yeah, you know, like, Okay, you look to the north,
you got your mommy, you looked to this way, you
got your auntie, you got your god.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Like you know who's surrounding you.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
But when there's a door that's gone now, it really
does open a feeling of.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Loneliness. Even though all the people around you.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
There's just certain things you imagine, like I thought my
godmother was gonna be there at my wedding, Like I
really wanted her to see me get a talk show,
Like those are the.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Things and so the grief.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
I could not find the joy in losing her, And
I think I have learned now to look at it
as Thank god I was able.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
To experience her.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Thank God I get to love in the way that
she taught me to love. Thank God I even knew
that she loved me because I know what love feels
like in that way because of her. But man, that
first year, that first those first two years, I.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Could not find the joy.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
I legit remember, just like sitting in sadness, sitting in grief,
sitting in like the gray of even my own perspective.
And then that was six months before the world shut down.
She passes twenty nineteen. So maybe the depression is depression.
And that's when I got when I realized that I
(31:08):
was praying to God, don't wake me up tomorrow. I
was like, yeah, baby, were gonna have to go get
some help. And with the help, I was able to
find the joy again. So for any person that feels like, yeah, no,
I'm good if I don't wake up tomorrow, because doctor
Anita talks about this all the time, like there's a
there's the saved way to realize. There's there's a saved
(31:33):
way of realizing that things aren't right and you only
really know it in yourself because there's a certain shame
attached to church conversations. If you're like girl, you would
never hear somebody say I ask God not to wake
me up tomorrow unless they're in a very safe space,
because there's a certain shame, like, well, you didn't count
the Lord, you didn't count it all joy, And.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Sometimes you can't. It's just is what it is.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
It's just what it is, like sometimes it is so hard.
And God understood that. Like, I mean, my boy cried out, Lord,
why have you given me this cup? Like that, like
this is not a thing that people don't understand. But
for so long, I think our feelings didn't matter as
a community just.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Because we didn't have the space too.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Like literally, you walking outside and somebody might find you
as a harmful person because of the color of your skin.
You don't have the time to be depressed. Baby, You
got to get back home to get yourself And.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
I understand it, right, And I understand.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
That, and so I think when I was able to say, Okay,
something is really wrong. I don't like this and this
is worse than the depression episodes that I've had before,
let me fight to find help, and my help led
me back to joy. And so if you are in
that moment, baby girl, go to therapy for black girls,
go to Hilger podcasts, go to the therapy. There are
(32:50):
so many ways to find people who are looking for
ways to help you, even if it's just somebody that
you can call into.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
I'm not okay.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah, even watching this show, like what we consume in
those moments is also very important. So like you find
yourself watching one too many episodes of Longer order sbu.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Get cut it off? You got you might need to
cut that off. It's so good. Look, I moved to
a marathon TV whatever marisk is that girls.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Okay, I'm like, Ris could come save me, but look,
please find me. Okay, if anybody gonna find me, let.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
It be Marisia, so I said.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
I said, you know, when I moved to New York,
I was so like prepared, and I was like, oh,
look at that person.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Three o'clock. There's someone out there, someone acting crazy like
we I'm gonna take a uber. It's nine to forty five,
Like I was already. I tell my husband all the time,
I know how to keep my head on the.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Hello, because that's vu okay and stable.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Shout to you too, Marisco.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
You know they had it forever and so at the
end of the day though, when I noticed that I
have not moved from my couch, yeah you no long
time that that if I keep staying there, I'm only
choosing sadness. Choosing joy Sometimes it looks like choosing help,
choosing to choosing to show up for yourself. That's choosing
to try again, even if you only got that mustard
(34:08):
seed left.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Try, that's all you need. Try, that is all you need.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
And at the end of the day, as we talk
about church people, a lot of people can really just
be like, oh, well, look, God is not shocked. He
is not confused by how I'm feeling. This did not
take him by surprise. He recognizes what is going on.
So number one, remembering that God knows, remembering that even
(34:38):
though life is going to life, God is still gone God,
and He's gonna keep working it out. So you just
got to choose it. And that is very difficult to do.
But that's why we're here, Yeah, and finding ways to
choose it.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
And joy comes in the morning, and we're here in
the morning.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Amen, Amen.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
To that. On moments where I keep like maybe it's night, Yeah,
maybe that night is like a couple of days yeah,
but joy will come.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
It does come in the morning if I keep trying,
I keep praying.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Even if you only have one prayer, you have one
prayer in your heart, and.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
It's like Lord help. Yeah. Amen. Look that's a pretty
Joy comes in the morning.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
So it's time going to wake up. Uh, Gia, thank you,
thank you. You're amazing. I've learned so much from you.
I'm so grateful that I get to see you, that
I get to say I know
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