More Than Folding Paper with Ross Symons

Ross is an origami expert, and he has become an internet sensation by fusing this skill with animation and video production. Origami is the ancient Japanese art of paper-folding that's never really gone out of fashion and is now becoming a modern fad in the era of YouTube instructions and Instagram.

He has created engaging stop motion animations for some of the world's biggest brands, including Red Bull, Adidas, Disney Plus, Nordstrom, Sony, PlayStation, Converse, McDonald's, Samsung, and Dior, which has helped them stand out in the crowded digital landscape.

Ross successfully completed a 365-day origami Instagram project in 2014 and 2017, folding and posting a different origami figure each day for an entire year onto Instagram, all the while making animations between the single photo posts.

The projects grew his following on the platform from 120 to 100K+ and helped him to capture the attention of the big brands he works with today.

Like many entrepreneurs, Ross worked a 9 to 5 job as a website developer at Ogilvy, one of the top advertising, marketing, and PR firms in the world, before founding his company White on Rice.

Over time, he came to realize that working for someone would never allow him to live the happy, free life he desired, and he took the risk of leaving a secure and well-paying profession in 2014 to pursue his passion for origami, which he had done since 2002 as a hobby.

Ross's gamble paid off as he grew his business into a sought-after creative agency in less than four years. He has been featured on major media outlets, including CNN, Business Insider, and The Times.

This was a fun and exciting episode and we hope you all feel the same as we dive into Ross's story and have some knowledge bombs that are dropped that help anyone that goes into entrepreneurship.

#origami #fyp #entrepreneurship #chaseyourdreams #marketing #goafterit #Business

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Episode Transcript

Dustin Steffey (00:00):
Welcome Chop nation to another new week,
which you all know what thatmeans. Another new exciting
episode. I missed you guys. Iknow it's only been a week but
I'm excited to dive right intoit introduce our new guest
speaker and to provide relevantinformation so you all know what
that means. Let's chop it upWelcome to your top rated global

(00:27):
podcast that is your one stopshop for everything
entrepreneurship, selfdevelopment, and smart
investment decisions. Thispodcast is hosted by owner Dr.
And creator Dustin Steffey wereblessed to have accolades that
include a 2022 nomination by thePeople's Podcast Awards, in the

(00:47):
category of business moneydonated to two amazing causes
cystic fibrosis, and the Boysand Girls Club. Lastly, global
recognition of gaining top 50podcast in four countries.
Without further ado, let's chopit up.

(01:14):
Today is going to be a funepisode. I know we talk a lot
about business. I know we talk alot about investments. I know we
talk just a lot about everythingwithin the business and
entrepreneurship world. Buttoday's is going to be fun.
We're gonna bring somecreativity into this and
something different. I don'tknow if you all have heard of

(01:35):
origami. But right now I got anexpert on that is the pro in
origami. So I'm going tointroduce our special guest
expert in ROSS Simmons Ross. Howare you?

Ross Symons (01:47):
Hey, can you man, thanks for having me on the
show.

Dustin Steffey (01:50):
Thank you for coming on. I definitely am going
to enjoy this. I'm sure ourlisteners will too. And it's
just going to be some fun.

Ross Symons (01:58):
Cool. Well, that's boring as hell,

Dustin Steffey (02:02):
man. I hope not.
But if it is stillinformational.

Ross Symons (02:06):
Cool. Let's do it.

Dustin Steffey (02:08):
So Ross, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Ross Symons (02:11):
So I am. My name is Ross Simmons, I live in Cape
Town, South Africa. I grew up inSouth Africa in Johannesburg
moved to Cape Town in 2010. SoI've been here for the last sort
of 13 years. And I've done acouple of things on my journey.
I'm 40 years old now. So Istarted I studied a few things I

(02:32):
studied. I tried to study film,I tried to study design of some
kind, I ended up studyingcomputer programming, I've
always had a computer in frontof me. And I wasn't very good at
school. I was I was good attelling the teacher what I
thought. And you know, it justdeveloped some sort of problem
with authority. So I was alwaysstruggling to get my ideas

(02:54):
across and just battle withschool quite a lot. But always
dabbling with weird randomthings. I mean, I I've been into
music for the longest time,always playing with audio
programs, on my computer,whatever that looked like
whether it was like a littlewaveform. Trying to make little
animations you remember, there'slittle flipbook animations that
used to do is as a kid atschool. So I was always

(03:16):
distracted with things that Iguess you wouldn't really expect
the kid to be distracted with.
managed to pass school, went andstudied for a bit. And I moved
to Cape Town with a diploma incomputer programming. And I
ended up working in advertisingas a web developer. So building
websites, applications, thatsort of thing, which I still

(03:39):
dabble with here and there. ButI think working in advertising
definitely set me up for where Iam now. And the origami thing
kind of came up when I was about20, I think was about 21 years
old, my brother asked me tolearn how to fold an Origami
Bird origami crane, and origamiif you if you're listening and
don't know what it is, it's aJapanese art form, which
basically, is the art form oftaking a sheet of paper,

(04:04):
generally a square sheet ofpaper, and folding using only
folds, no cuts, no glue, noscissors or knives, to create
whatever. You can create birds,you can create shoes, you can
create whatever I mean,obviously, it's an art form. So
it's not the thing you'recreating, but an abstraction of
that. And for me, yeah, mybrother asked me to learn how to

(04:24):
fold one of them years ago andthe I was about 21 then and I
just, you know, it was justsomething I did. Whenever I had
a piece of paper in front of mefolded it over and over again. I
got really good at folding thecrane, which which was the bird
that that I first folded andthen edging towards I guess 2012
and 2013 I started lookingaround online started finding

(04:46):
books in, you know, stationerystores and libraries for what
other designs were out there.
There's quite a big origamicommunity scattered around the
world. And then is there acouple of works. And there's a
lot of tutorials online that youcan follow on how to fold a
square sheet of paper and paperinto anything. And I just wanted

(05:09):
to document myself at one pointI realized I was doing this
every day anyway, I was I justhad a piece of paper in front of
me, I was looking forward to itwhen I was supposed to be, you
know, building a website orputting an app live in the
advertising company I wasworking for, I'd have my like,
project management projectmanager staring over my shoulder
like, Dude, are you going tofinish with that piece of paper,
so you can put the website liveCan I think so? I think my,

(05:32):
again, my authoritive issuesthere were present as well. So I
knew that I was into this thing,I knew that it was distracting
me from the work I was doing.
wouldn't have a problem. I mean,it's not like I became an
origami addict. But it was justsomething I would rather have
been doing then then working.
And in 2014, I decided I wasgoing to get better at origami,

(05:53):
and I was going to documentmyself doing it. So approach
that was I decided to do a fullyear project dedicated to the
art of origami and gettingbetter at it. So I set out to
post one different origami orone folded figure every day of
the year of 2014. And posted onto Instagram. And it just made
sense. Because Instagram at thattime. 2014 was you know, just

(06:16):
when it started taking off,globally, and it was getting a
lot of attention. So for me, Ijust wanted a digital record of
whatever it was I was I wascreating. So day one 365, first
of January 2014, I posted myfirst little origami bird and
then just continued posting. Andagain, I mean, it was just
something I was doing, I wasn'ttelling people about it. My

(06:37):
following at that stage was, youknow, my aunts and uncles and
friends 122 like 130 people thatthat I knew. And I set off and
started this project. And aboutfour months into that year, I
quit my job, I decided I hadsome freelance work coming in.
So as a web developer and adesigner, there's there's quite
a lot of things that you can do,as in a freelance capacity in

(07:00):
terms of, you know, work. So Iwas just like, you know, the
worst that can happen is I justhave to go back and work again
for somebody so, but the wholetime, I was still building this
whole like little origamiproject. And about eight months,
eight months into the project, Iwas fortunate enough to be
featured on Instagram onInstagram account. And that was

(07:23):
also back in the day when I saidback in the day, it's like nine
years ago, but when theInstagram algorithm wasn't as
you know, it wasn't as as rigidas it is now it was very much a
if you posted at six in themorning, and you happen to be on
at six in the morning, you wouldsee that post. So I just posted
at seven o'clock every morningfigured, you know, most people

(07:44):
are getting up between six andseven, first thing they're going
to do is pick up the phone. Andif they open Instagram,
hopefully they see one of myposts. And that kind of worked
as a strategy. And goingforward, my following slowly
started increasing, I gotfeatured by Instagram. And it
was around that time that Istarted dabbling with stop
motion animation. So basically,stop motion animation is an

(08:07):
animation style where it'spretty much motion photography,
where you taking a series ofphotographs of a whatever it is
an object and you moving it invery small increments at once or
time after time, and then takinga series of photos becomes an
animation and you tell littlestories or whatever, just
content essentially. And by theend of the year I had close to I

(08:28):
think it was like 50,000followers, which I was like,
wow, how the hell did thishappen? And that's when brands
started approaching me becausethey saw Okay, cool, this guy's
doing something different. Hecan design pretty much anything
out of paper. And he's got thisanimation style that he's
playing with as well. So let'sask him, you know, if you could
create some content for us, andthat was at the end of 2014 at

(08:50):
the end of the project that hadfinished and I just decided then
I was like, You know what, noone else is really doing this on
on a level that I am. So let'sget better at it and and see how
far we can take it and that wasYeah, was nine years ago. And so
I've been a full time origamiartist. And I guess content
creator, I kind of fell into theinfluencer space a little bit,

(09:11):
but I really don't like thatword. I don't like that space. I
mean, not influencing anyone.
We're just creating some somestuff, you know. But I've been
fortunate enough to work withsome really big brands around
the world have worked with RedBull. I've worked with Paramount
Pictures have worked with Disneyand Pixar Disney plus. Yeah, and
the list goes on. And I thinkwhat I have on my side is I'm

(09:33):
able to create short formcontent in a very, I guess, eye
catching way. It's and it alsotaps because origami is
something that kids do. Sogenerally it's you don't really
associate doing origami withwith anything that could be more
than that. So when people seethat they kind of like wow watch

(09:56):
this piece of paper turn into adragon and the dry I can breathe
fire on this pair of shoes and apair of shoes turned into like,
you know, like boxers shoes, orwhatever the case is. I mean,
that's my branding mind comingup there. But essentially,
that's how I make money. That'show I, I've been able to, to
live for the past sort of nineyears. And now I just connect
with with as many creativesaround the world via Instagram,

(10:20):
I do origami installation. So ifbrands need, I guess, an origami
installation of let's say 1000butterflies or 100 flowers, I've
got a team that I work with, weall design, whatever it is that
the brand or the client wants.
And I will then show this teamof mine how to fold whatever

(10:43):
that figure is we fold hundredsof them. And that becomes the
installation which gets put upon a wall or in a gallery or in
a retail store, whatever thecase is. That's the one side and
then the the animation andcontent creation side as well.

Dustin Steffey (10:58):
A lot tone package a lot of talent and a
lot of creativity there. Acouple of things that came out
that I wrote down here.
Consistency is key. And in yourstory, the one big pattern that
I saw anyway, and I'm sure youyou understand this more than
most is, the more consistent youare the more that things take

(11:21):
off. And so I saw that kind ofwithin your story, with with
your Instagram, with yourorigami with just about
everything that you are talkingabout. Another thing that came
up that kind of alerted me alittle bit was the term
influencer, which Oh, I'll useit loosely as well, too. It's

(11:44):
not it's not the best term touse, right? Because I mean,
you're right. Sometimes we feellike we're not influencing
people or we feel like what weadd value to you isn't really
influence. It's just, we'redoing what we like. However, I
want to kind of take note thatyou are still an influencer, no

(12:05):
matter what because your yourwork. And what you do, does
impact other people. And whetheror not they're telling you that
they're influenced by you or notis, is irrelevant, because you
are influencing people. And agood example of that is just how
many people you've built yourbusiness to for are getting

(12:28):
origami out there or eveneducated on origami or your work
just being shown and flourishyour Instagram following just
blowing up whatever the case maybe you do you do influence in
some shape or form. So justwanted to kind of give you
credit where credit is due, youknow. And then another thing

(12:51):
that I wrote down that was kindof key was your tipping point is
what I call it. So you'reworking your normal job. And
you're kind of in bodied intothis hobby that you like. And
all of a sudden, it's just like,Man, I'd rather be doing this

(13:12):
than working my nine to five,not to say that the nine to five
was bad, or anything along thoselines you just recognized ahead
of time, where you can add morevalue. And I just think that
that's so super important.
Because I think in this day andage, people get stuck. And they

(13:36):
forget what they're good at orwhat they want to do. And they
kind of just stay in the rolethat they're in instead of
taking a chance on branchingout.

Ross Symons (13:48):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's like, I mean, it's a very Iwould, I have to say it's a
privileged position to be andbecause, you know, I don't know
what percent of the world areable to sit in a job that they
don't really like, and be like,You know what, I'm gonna go fold
paper for a living. I mean, Ididn't do it exactly like that.
But I recognize that it issomething that not everyone
would have the opportunity todo. But I think there are

(14:10):
practical steps that you cantake, regardless of your
situation. Maybe I sayregardless, but I think there
are definitely ways of goingabout it. The one thing I did
was I didn't just quit my job. Imean, it's not like I didn't
have any money. I didn't walkout, you know, pulling a zip
sign and my boss saying like Maxfor nothing. As all you know, it

(14:30):
wasn't like that at all. I madesure that I built up a
relationship and a network ofpeople that should this thing
that I wanted to do, be it be afreelancer or start a business,
should it not work out that Ican still go back to these
people and say, Look, thisdidn't really work out for me.
Do you have a job for me? Andthat was one thing I did.
Another thing I did was I savedup enough money just to

(14:52):
basically make sure that I hadall my bases covered for the
next I think I think had aboutthree months of what my current
salary was saved up. And I'dsaved that up over time. And
always, I've been pretty good atsaving. So I always have this
little, I don't want to say nestegg, but it was just enough to
keep me going. And that hasjust, you know, that's just a

(15:12):
habit that I got into just incase because you don't know it's
a rainy day fund, you don't knowwhat's going to happen, you also
don't know when you want to makea drastic decision, like
quitting your job, or whateverthe case is. So there are
definitely those things that youcan that anyone who's sitting in
a job that they don't like, andwho is, you know, watching
videos on how to make shoes, orwatching woodwork videos, or,

(15:36):
you know, trying to createcontent on the side or making
animations, stuff that it onething that always just sat with
me was try and pay attention tothe thing that or listen to the
thing that you are doing whenyou're supposed to be working.
So if that whatever that thingis, like, for me, it was just
happened to be origami. So and Ipaid attention to it, I just I

(16:00):
had also had the guts to go,Okay, well, let's see how far I
can push this thing. And I thinkthat as as a creative business
owner, you have to take thatchance. And you just owe it to
yourself, because you can lookback 10 years from now 20 years
from now and be like what Damn,I could have actually really
done something, I could havedone something different. And

(16:20):
not to say that it's too late,but you could have saved
yourself a lot of time. So thatwas just always for me, you
know, in the back of my mind,always been able to go back to
work if I did need to,fortunately, I haven't had to,
I've done some, you know, someweb development stuff on the
side just to pay the bills, whenthere's there's not too much
work coming in. And I just, Ijust did to do something

(16:42):
different. And no one sets outto become an origami artist, or
maybe even a stop motionanimator, or content creator,
for that matter. It just, I justworked out cool. That's the
space I'm in. And I just starteddoing as much as possible. And I
maintain that, you know, justkeep on like you say
consistency, just making surethat I'm always creating, making
sure I for lack of fully knowingwhat my purpose is. I mean, I

(17:06):
don't think I've ever reallysearched for a purpose. But if I
had to link that to something itwould be to create, I'm here to
make things I'm here to make.
Whether it's conversation, ororigami, or animations or
content, whatever the case is,and I just dedicate my time when
I don't know what to do. Andthen when there's not a lot of

(17:28):
work going on, I'm like, let mejust make something. And that
kind of gets me out what getssomething out and pushes me
forward to the next step.

Dustin Steffey (17:38):
You've built something amazing here, too. I
mean, as you said, prior tothis, you you've had, you've
been afforded the ability towork for big companies doing
what you love, like Red Bull,like Disney, Sony converse, I
mean, you've gotten to do somefun things that a lot of people

(17:59):
dream up. So I mean, it's beenrewarding, like to branch out,
actually, in my opinion, lookingat what you're doing. And it's
paid off. Creativity, I think issomething that separates us out
from technology and computers,right, like the human aspect of

(18:22):
creativity, you can't get it?
Well, I say this loosely, youcan get a computer to do it. But
you have to program and code itto do it. Right. Whereas you
humans can free things. Sothere's a lot of like off the
cuff with creative things thatyou can do. And so that kind of
leads me into a question foryou, which is, with technology

(18:43):
advancing as fast as it is, andcreativity being so important.
Do you see a threat to humancreativity with AI coming out or
any of this new technology? Likewhat's your take on that?

Ross Symons (19:03):
I think that I've always just approached any
technology, any new technology,particularly as a, something I
can try to understand somethingI can potentially be friends
with and maybe use in whateverI'm doing. I've never, I've
never thought okay, cool. Well,you know, here comes this new

(19:26):
camera or here comes AI and it'sgoing to threaten the work that
I do i know that i A lot ofpeople don't particularly
creative people don't share thatsentiments. I've had many
conversations with with a lot ofcreatives and artists who they
genuinely feel like this is theend for them, designers and 3d
animators and artists, and Iunderstand where they're coming

(19:48):
from, but I would rather and I'mnot saying that it's not going
to happen. I'm not saying thatall the work I do is a you know
it's you can't imitate it or anote He's neck technology is
going to be able to do what Ican do better than me, I will
never say that, because I'veseen, you know, I've seen the
exact opposite. But I wouldrather learn and understand how

(20:09):
these tools work, and add theminto my workflow in my process,
so that I can advance and I canshow others how it's potentially
possible to use this kind oftechnology. So do I see it as a
threat not at all, I see it asa, I see it as a means to create
something new, put some somevery unique stuff out into the

(20:33):
world. And I and there's a lotof people on Instagram, I mean,
when I started with the wholeorigami thing I was connecting
with, firstly, the origamicommunity on Instagram, and
anyone starting anything will beyou know, you'll find your your
little, your tribe, onInstagram, it's like with
anything, you know, whether youinto vaping, or tattoos or shoes

(20:56):
or whatever, there's little,these little clusters, these
little sub groups that arethere. And I'm now connecting
with the augmented reality andvirtual reality and the AI
community. And it's amazing,because it's taken me all the
way back to like how I felt atthe beginning of my, I guess my
digital journey, which has beenthrough origami, because a lot

(21:18):
of this stuff is it's allcentered around these new tools
that are now available and therate at which you can create
stuff, and people are gettingsuper excited about it. And I
just want to be part of thatenergy. I want to be part of
that excitement, because it's tome, it just makes sense. And
again, I'm I'm speaking formyself and the people that I'm
connecting with and speaking tofeel the same. We're having the

(21:40):
same conversation. But does it'snot everyone sends them in for
sure. I mean, there was anInstagram post I posted a couple
of weeks ago, I was about twomonths ago, what origami, it was
like what origami cars wouldlook like. So if you had to take
origami, and blend them withlike a Hummer or a BMW or a
Ferrari, using AI to feed thatthrough, you know, whatever text

(22:04):
to image generation program, Ithink I was using mid journey at
that stage. And yeah, I got alot of people messaging me
saying, you know, dude, beenfollowing you for the last eight
years now. But I'm out I can'tbelieve you're supporting this
system and can't believe youusing it. And I get it. I
understand. It's not foreverybody. But, you know, there
was a quote, I read and I'vebeen saying this quite a lot is

(22:27):
resisting technology doesn'tslow its progress. So you can
hate it all you like but it'slike it's, you know, it's gonna
leave you in the dirt so minerswill understand it know that
it's going to be the future andand just try and put it into
your workflow. That's that'sjust how I think about it.

Dustin Steffey (22:42):
And we will be right back after a quick break.
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(24:14):
and drop us a review. We reallydo appreciate all of you and the
continued support as we lookforward to dropping more fun and
relevant content. Another thingthat came up that I think is so
critically important for thispodcast and for you, as you've
done is you've had all these bigbrands approached you to do

(24:38):
origami for them. How did youget in the door with some of
these big businesses like for mysmall entrepreneurs that kind of
don't know how to get in andblow up a little bit you have.
So what's the secret? Is there asecret or did it just happen?

Ross Symons (24:57):
And that old thing I you know Are they for me, it
was, it wasn't one thing, Ithink my, my attitude just
remained very positive. I, youknow, there were times where I
was running out of money. And Iwas like, whoo, this is getting,
you know, bad now, but all Iwould do in those times was
like, just make stuff I wouldmake and put out making put out

(25:17):
making put out and try andconnect with, I mean, the number
of podcasts, the number ofagencies, the number of
creatives and brands andcompanies that I sent my work to
is staggering. I rememberkeeping a list of like 50
agencies that I sent my stuffoff to in New York, and then la
in London, and Sydney. So I wasjust always, in the process of

(25:38):
sending my stuff out. And eventhough I didn't get much of a
response directly down the line,someone would say, hey, you
know, we saw your stuff here,and we'd love to work with you
on this project. But I just feltthat, you know, just over time,
using the channels that I hadavailable to me, and sticking to
my strengths, not there weretimes when I thought okay, cool,

(26:00):
well, I'm gonna do this. Anexample is I was into hobby
electronics for quite a while,like Arduino and Raspberry Pi,
and whatever, it was just avery, I guess, small group of
well, it's now it's like a quitea big thing. But I tried to go
down that route. And I tried tocreate a business or see how I
could blend that into what I wasdoing. And it didn't really work

(26:20):
but and I realized in thatmoment, or during that time that
I needed to stick to what I waskind of good at and what I was
known for, and then see slowlyhow I can branch off from that
in the same way that I'm doingit now with with AI and virtual
reality. And that whole space, Itried it with the NFT thing. I
you know, I tried to get intocreating NF T's and because that

(26:41):
was, you know, that was thething before AI. And I think
that just trying those thingsand trying to just understand
whether they work for me or not,and seeing if I could get it,
you know, into my workflow andworkflow and process that I
again, it was just something I'dalways done. But if you're

(27:03):
starting out in business, andyou're starting out a creative
venture, just you have to bepatient. That's something that
that's something you really haveto skill that you have to learn
patience, tenacity andconsistency. Just keep putting
it out there and and just tellpeople tell everybody what
you're doing. I remember tellingpeople that I was an artist,

(27:23):
like, there's, there's a weirdline where you kind of like you
go from working for somebody tobecoming a freelancer or an
entrepreneur or an artist whereyou have to start calling
yourself that and what, youknow, at what point do you
decide that that is, and thesooner the sooner I did that,
the sooner I was like, okay,cool. I'm an artist now. And
when people asked me, What do Ido, I'm an artist, I still

(27:44):
didn't believe it. At the time,I was like, I'm not an artist.
I'm just, you know, I'm justtelling people this because just
so that I can always addmanifest this whole, I guess,
persona that maybe not persona,but just this idea of cool, I
want to be an artist, and I'mdoing creative work. So I
managed to stop calling myselfan artist. And now I'm sitting

(28:05):
on a podcast talking to you asan artist, and a creative
entrepreneur. So it's like, andI tell people that I'm like,
Yeah, I'm a creativeentrepreneur started this thing,
do this, I've got this brand. Sojust tell people what you're
doing. And some people are gonnalove your stuff. And some people
are gonna hate your stuff. Tryand focus on the positive
feedback, but also listen towhere the negative feedback is

(28:27):
coming from. And surroundyourself with people that are
going to tell you the truth.
Because I think that that's alsosomething that a lot of people
get a little bit wrong, theycome up with this idea, everyone
around them can see that they'reso excited about this thing. And
they're just like, oh, man, I'mgonna do this thing. But they
know that maybe they're a littlebit naive. And everyone around
them is like, yeah, cool, man.

(28:49):
Well, good luck with that. Butif those people aren't telling
you the truth and saying,listen, maybe you need to
rethink this, or maybe is thereno other way that you can go
about doing this? Then you justend up, you know, lying to
yourself and believing that youcan? Yeah, I mean, I'm all about
self belief. And I'm all aboutgoing to go and go do the thing
and make it happen. But honestywith yourself and honesty from

(29:12):
the people around you iscritically essential as well.

Dustin Steffey (29:17):
That was a lot to unpackage there, too. I mean,
there was a lot of things Iwrote down in in that. So
basically, to recap that justfor everyone that's listening,
visibility is key. And Ross madehimself visible. He got his work
out to as many people as hecould. And that snowballed into

(29:38):
something positive there, whichleads into using your resources.
So whatever resources you have,use it tell everybody like he
said, I think that's supercritically important. Stay
positive. Yes, I think that's ahumongous one because there are
times even for me in thispodcast and even for you, I'm

(29:59):
sure awesome. Like, whereaslike, I don't know, if I'm going
to make it, I, I'm, I don'tknow, if if I can put food on
the table, I might have to dosomething different. Whatever
the case may be where there's awill, there's a way to stay
positive. I'm slow and steadywins the race. I mean, that's
been something I've been toldsince I came out of the womb. So

(30:19):
I think that's criticallyimportant. And most importantly,
I feel you brought this up topatients is key, like being
patient, and I'm not not themost patient person. But I've
learned over time, throughhaving my daughter and this
podcast like, Patience. Patienceis important. You develop it,

(30:40):
it's a skill. And for some, it'shard. For others. It's easy, but
whatever the case may be,Patience is important. I'm a,
I'm a Star Wars buff. Soeverything that has been brought
up has reminded me of like theMandalorian. Right, you know,
like, yeah, so. So, in the late,great Mandalorian, I'm going to

(31:04):
go ahead and use that soundboardright now. This is the way we
go. That's the way and yes, thisis the way. So I'm, I'm pretty,
pretty excited about that.
Because I think right there,those just that little three to
five minute blurb right there isso critically important for

(31:28):
anyone that's going intoentrepreneurship, or that is in
entrepreneurship, that is reallytrying to find that success. So
Ross, I appreciate you bringingyour pizzazz into that. Because
I think the more people say themore important it is to just
kind of write those down, writea note every day, like stay

(31:50):
positive, Do this, do that onething at a time focus. Exactly.

Ross Symons (31:55):
And also, if it feels kind of silly, because,
you know, it does feel, youknow, when you when you like
fake it till you make it and youjust keep being positive, like
it comes a point where you justlike can't do the shit anymore.
Um, like, you know, it getsdifficult. But I also think that
you you've got, like I said, Behonest with yourself, and let
the people around you be honestwith you as well. But also that

(32:17):
whole giving up thing, I thinkthat sometimes, like I said, I
had to go back and do you know,website work at some point when
they, you know, there wasn'tmuch it was actually just before
COVID hit. So there wasn't muchcontent creation work going on.
But people needed websites,people needed stuff to get done
on on the internet. So I hadthat skill, fortunately, and I
humbled up and just decidedcool, I'm gonna put my name out

(32:40):
there again for that. And thatkind of carried me through for
the for the year and a half thatthat COVID was here. And I bring
that up as an example. Because Ididn't feel like I had given up
on my dream of being afreelancer or entrepreneur, or
creative entrepreneur or artistat all. I just knew that that
was a means to an end. And Ithink that you can do that as an

(33:02):
entrepreneur in the meantime aswell. So make sure that the
skills that you have, I mean,sometimes you just got to take a
chance and be like, You knowwhat, I need to put the next
two, three months of all my timeinto this, otherwise, it's not
going to survive. But if youhave the luxury of having money
coming in from somewhere else,keep the other thing that you
have as a side hustle. If it'syour main gig, then find another

(33:24):
way to supplement your income,if you can, I mean that at the
end of the day, it's just aboutit's money that needs to keep
you going. And money, believe itor not, is very inspirational,
like it'll keep you going likeif you if you know that you've
got money, I found this again,with when I was doing web
development work was like thework that I knew I didn't have
to worry too much about the bitof money that was coming in. And

(33:45):
I could focus more creatively onthe other things that I wanted
to do. And as a result of that,more work started coming in on
the content creation animationside. So yeah, I mean, that's
just a bit of bit of advicethere. Just don't give up on
your dream. But also don't thinkthat just because you have to go
do the old thing that you did orsomething else for the next

(34:06):
three or four months or a yearthat you've given up on it. If
you believe enough in it, thenit will happen. But just yeah.
Just take it easy on yourself.
Get out of your own way and andbe patient as well. Yeah.

Dustin Steffey (34:20):
You brought up a good point with money. Most
entrepreneurs, the biggest thebiggest thing I hear is they're
trying to make enough money tolive a comfortable lifestyle.
Right. But I think that's such abroad thing, because what's
comfort, what's comfort mean toyou? Everybody's definition of

(34:42):
comfort is different. I mean, ifI'm living, check to check but
I'm living is that comfort? Isthat comfort or is comfort
having a half a million dollarsin the bank account, you know
what I mean? So with that beingsaid, as an entrepreneur for you
Has it taught you, especially inthis day and age where inflation

(35:04):
is very real has it taught youhow to manage your money better,
like when you quit your nine tofive, and you went to this, I'm
pretty certain you were in acomfort, comfortable lifestyle
with that nine to five, and thenshifting over to this, you are
your own boss, which meansyou're your own finance person

(35:25):
as well, too. How exactly? Howdid that shift look for you? And
how did you adjust to how didyou get comfortable? Really, I
mean, you and I didn't talkabout like, if you're a
millionaire, and I may not know,maybe you are a millionaire, but
like obvious, I mean, either,don't worry. But obviously there

(35:47):
is a sort of kind of skill thatyou have to have in managing
money to make this work in thekey being an entrepreneur, how
does that look for you?

Ross Symons (35:59):
I think something I've always been very good at.
And whether it's something Ilearned from, you know, my
family or skill that I picked upalong the way it was, I always
knew how to keep a little bit onthe side, you know, just have a
little bit saved have enough.
And, and also just be humblewhen you know, if you need to
ask for money, or if you needto, hopefully, that you've
created an environment aroundyourself where you do have some

(36:23):
I'm not saying having access tosomeone else's money. But if you
need to go sleep on someoneelse's couch, because you can't
afford the rent, make sure thatyou have at least two or three
people whose couch you can gosleep on, you know, and that is
that that's how he listened to alot of the Silicon Valley
stories like those guys, theyeat noodles, and ramen and slept
on somebody's couch for yearssometimes. And not to say that

(36:46):
that's how drastic it has to be.
And there's also this, this ideaaround, you know, being an
entrepreneur and money andbecause entrepreneurship
essentially is about startingyour own business and making as
much money as possible. Youknow, it's you can add purpose
and cause and whatever to it.
But the main goal of any of anyjourney on in that space is to

(37:06):
make money. And maybe you've gotthis goal of that cool, well,
this is what I'm what I'm aimingat, and what I want to achieve
with my life in terms offinances, but I don't think that
it's that it's a real like, forme, it's not a reality, it's
not, it's not something thatokay, cool, when I hit a million
dollars in my bank account, thatis when x fill it in, when I'm

(37:27):
going to be happy when I'm goingto be satisfied when I find my
purpose. And I think there isthis misconception of that. I'm
not saying that, because I'vereached that, but I just
approached money with a verysee. And I don't know if this is
like everyone's way of goingabout it. But the way I see
money, I see it as a resourceand an energy and, and sometimes

(37:49):
a friend, because it's a friendthat sometimes I see quite
regularly and it's nice to hangout with them. And we, you know,
talk shit. And that's great. Andsometimes he's not there. And
sometimes like I miss him. Andthe thing is, I know that I just
need to be comfortable with whoI am and comfortable enough to
know that at some point, he willcome back. And treating it like

(38:11):
that is it might seem a littlebit childish and naive. But it
honestly has worked for me, Ijust see it as this this energy,
this entity that just comes andgoes sometimes sometimes I make
a lot of money and I'm able tosave it. I treated with respect
when it does come in, Icelebrated I'm like cool, this
is amazing. But just knowingthat, regardless of what it

(38:33):
feels like now when look, ifyou're really running out of
money, and you need to take aloan, I mean, that's what you
need to do. That's that's thereality of the situation. But I
think that you can avoid that byjust cutting back on a couple of
things in your life, you likewell, eating out a little bit
too much or can't afford to godo the holiday again, or
whatever the case is justfinding places in there's

(38:54):
another quote that I really loveit's stealing. already put it it
was you have to learn to stealtime from comfort. And when you
are comfortable is when you haveenough resources, you've got
enough money, you got some moneyin the bank works coming in. And
it's great. And it's what you'redoing in that time. And how you

(39:14):
steal more time from thatcomfortable space to set your
life up so that you don't arrivein that situation again, down
the line where you don't haveany more money and you run out
of time. And you now go and youstart freaking out and it's
stressful and you have anxietyand these these are normal
Western problems. You know,these are things that I speak to
so many people about not enoughmoney, too much stress, too much

(39:35):
anxiety constantly. Just there'sa whole bunch of stuff that that
kind of piles on as a result ofthat. But just learning how to
live I guess live not trying tojust keep up with the Joneses.
And you know there's that wholeanalogy. There's always going to
be more to get and you're neverfully going to be satisfied or
you're never going to bepermanently satisfied with your

(39:56):
situation unless you are okaywith who you are. I mean, I can
go go down this hole, you know,the journey that I've done
internally and spiritually,almost like sorting out my
relationship with myself, Ithink that was the biggest favor
I've ever done for myself, I'mstill on the path. And I'm still
I don't get things right all thetime. But knowing what I'm good
at knowing what I'm not so goodat, and working towards trying

(40:18):
to be better than I wasyesterday. And that's definitely
helped me, I will admit it, it'shelped me understand money a
little bit better. It's helpedme understand relationships with
people. And I think all of thatkind of filters into the same
thing. And, yeah, just, you knowhow some people approach the
whole thing and like this wholehustle culture, and you got to

(40:41):
get the shit done, you got to beworking 16 hours a day, and you
got to be stressed out and youcan't can't be sleeping, I think
that's something that we've alljust bought into, for whatever
reason. And I just choose notto, because it, I don't think it
serves anybody, especially beinga creative person myself, you
know, like, I need time to sitand do nothing for long periods

(41:02):
of time, because, and in thoseperiods, I need to make sure
that I'm relaxed, because I'mnot, ideas are not going to rock
up. And if ideas don't rock up,money is not going to rock up.
So that's just how I approachit. I'm kind of like, just
relax, chill out, you know,leave some time for myself. And
don't stress and the times wethink I need to be working, or
we feel I'm forcing myself to dostuff. That's when I just step

(41:24):
back a bit and just say, okay,cool. Let me go, you know, do a
yoga session or drink a beer orsomething, and just relax and
ease into the day.

Dustin Steffey (41:37):
Yeah, I think everybody has a different
relationship with money, or I myrelationship with money is
different than your relationshipwith money. But the fact of the
matter, like you brought up is,you have to learn, like you
said, to steal time, fromcomfort, to be able to balance
things out and make things work.
Pride is another thing that Iwrote down, that was a big word

(41:59):
that I wrote down in what youwere discussing, you have to set
aside your pride, to be able toask for help if you do need
help, because success isn'tcreated off of your pride
success is created off of well,being able to ask for help and
have others in the fold. So Idon't know any single
entrepreneurship. Or I'm sorry,I don't know, any single

(42:22):
entrepreneur that has done itcompletely and totally on their
own. I haven't met one yet. Sothere's always someone that is
an inspiration or help orwhatever the case may be. So
that's some good important stuffthere. I appreciate you talking
about that. And then thatjourney a little bit. Something
that came up question that cameup from one of the listeners

(42:44):
was, they're using social mediato be able to drive their
business, however, they're notgetting that reach that they
want. And it seems like you kindof have created that reach what
are some? What are some keysuggestions that you may have?
For the listeners that are likelooking to expand their social

(43:09):
media to get that reach toreally drive their business?

Ross Symons (43:17):
To be honest, for me, I think it was I, I didn't
really focus too much on, youknow, how do I grow this thing?
How does it get bigger, it justorganically just happened. And I
think a large part of it wasfirstly connecting with the
smaller community, which was theorigami community, and that
spilled over into the localInstagram community, which was

(43:38):
like origami, or sorry, theInstagram, Cape Town and
Instagram, South Africa, and itjust kind of grew from there. So
start small, you know, everybodywants to launch a product and
have you know, 1000 followers bythe end of the day, and then by
the end of the week, 10,000. Andthen they you know, the killing
of two sales by the end of themonth, that that's, that doesn't

(43:58):
happen. Maybe it does maybewrite some piece of AI code
that, you know, spills out intothe world and causes that that's
cool. That's, that's amazing.
But for the most part for 99% ofpeople, I think it's it is a
long, hard, it's a struggle. Andit doesn't have to be I say
struggle. It doesn't have to bea negative struggle like
struggle to me I enjoy struggle.

(44:19):
Sometimes I think that that I'vebeen, you know, back to the
whole stealing comfort fromstealing time from comfort.
Being uncomfortable is a signfor me that I'm growing a sign
that I am progressing in someway. And I am learning along the
way as well. But in terms ofputting stuff out there just you
it's also very, it's this wholething of you know, you think

(44:44):
that okay, cool. Well, if assoon as I get 10,000 followers,
it's the same as the moneything. As soon as I get money,
then I'll be happy. As soon as Iget 10,000 followers, then I'll
start making more money, but itdoesn't work like that. And
something I got told early onwas before anything sort of
happened for me If someone saidjust focus on your they've got
that whole 1000 true fansanalogy, which is focused on the

(45:06):
people that started followingyou first, that support what you
do that always asking youquestions about what you're
doing, don't ignore them,regardless of who you think they
are. Because it's those peoplethat are going to support you
when you decide to change. Orwhen you decide that you know
what, this is not really, forme. So focus have to have that
person or that group of peoplein mind, top of mind all the

(45:28):
time. I mean, it's easy tothink, okay, cool, I just want
to reach out to a millionpeople, because at the end, my
life is going to be better, thenI'm going to sell more, then I'm
gonna make more money. But thatis also not a reality. And it's
also I mean, it's a veryattractive thing, it's like,
it's nice to have a little bluetick, and, you know, like 10
million followers on yourInstagram profile, because it
feeds your ego on it on multiplelevels. And that also can turn

(45:53):
into money if you know how to doit properly. But I know people
who have 5000 followers onInstagram who are killing it,
and I know people that have amillion followers and don't know
how to make money from it. Soyou know, it's, it's a very, I
guess, it comes down to you as aas a person and how you want to
approach the whole thing, butfocus on the people that have

(46:13):
started supporting you from thebeginning, and try and develop a
an understanding of what it isthey want from you, and focus on
that thing, and produce more ofthat, because that is how if
somebody wants something fromyou, chances are two people that
they know, also want the samething. And if you enjoy what
you're doing, plus people thatyou know, and don't really know,

(46:35):
want to buy something from youor want to get something from
you, then you're doing somethingright. But there's this idea of
Oh, yeah, 100,000 followers, youmust be killing it, you must be
making a lot of money. It'slike, No, it's not like that at
all. And it's a misconception,but not to say that you
shouldn't, you know, try andgain a following. If you want to
do like the technical hardcore,like, go down and really try and

(46:58):
grow your audience that thatcomes down to being on Instagram
all the time. Interacting with asmaller community, liking posts,
commenting on posts, sharingpeople's stuff, reaching out to
people via the DMS and saying,Hey, I really enjoy which I've
been asking questions that arenot like, Hey, do you want to
cola? Because that the thenumber of messages I get like,

(47:18):
do you want me to cola? Yeah.
Okay, cool. Well, what's, whatare we going to do? Now? Like?
Well, I was hoping that, youknow, maybe you had an idea of
how we could make some like,Look, if you've approached me to
come up with an idea, then youasked me to work for nothing.
And, you know, if you want mefor my whatever, my little bit
of influence that you think Ihave, then you've come to the
wrong place. But if somebodycomes to me and says, Hey,

(47:40):
listen, I love what you're doinghere. And I this has happened to
me recently. I love what you'redoing here. And I would love to
work with you. Here's an ideathat I have. Are you keen to do
it? Then it's like, of course,yeah. I'd love to entertain
that. And, you know, if it doesturn into money or something,
then it's like, cool. But if itdoesn't, then no big deal.

Dustin Steffey (47:57):
So Ross, the big thing that I have right now is
do you want to collab with me?

Ross Symons (48:03):
Let's go out, man.
What's your idea?

Dustin Steffey (48:05):
Oh, man, I have millions of them. Let's do it.
Where do we start? But no, inall actuality, I relate with
you, which is I get the messagesto do you want to collab? And
it's like, okay, what addedvalue do you bring to the table
for us to be able to collab sowhat I'm looking for, and a good

(48:26):
example is what you and I aredoing right now, I have a
different reach from what yourreach is. So us collabing on my
podcast, and given theseknowledge bombs to not only my
listeners, but also hosting thisfor your for your following is
going to create a differentavenue for us to create a win,

(48:46):
win and answer questions and tohelp others. So for me, it's all
about what value do you bring tothe table? For us to have a
successful collab? If you'regoing to approach me and be
like, do you want to collab? Myfirst initial response is going
to be no, because you're not,you're not giving me any value
like, like, Give me somethinggive me something to run off of

(49:08):
where it's enticing for us to beable to create a collab
together. So I agree with thatstatement that you made. And I
empathize with you. Because Iknow I get a million messages
that say that and it's like,okay, cool. So what are we
doing?

Ross Symons (49:26):
Exactly. But yeah, I mean, that although that is
like I said, you really do haveto put yourself out there and
you have to ask but don't justask because you think that they
are going to respond whoeverthat person is. Another thing on
the opposite end of it is alsojust realize that those people
that you're reaching out to,regardless of who it is, let's

(49:47):
say there's somebody in thesneaker space that has a couple
of 100,000 followers and youreally admire what they're
doing. And you this up andcoming sneaker head and you want
to do something with them,whatever First, you do genuinely
have an idea. And you're superhumble and you're like, cool,
I'm going to come up with thispitch and do the whole thing,
reach out to them. Because youmust remember that at the end of
that DM is just one person, youknow, although it's a company,

(50:11):
maybe, but at the end of theday, it's one person that you're
dealing with and build arelationship with that person.
And building a relationshipdoesn't mean that you are going
to get something from it. But begenuine about it, start a
conversation, say, this is whatI'm doing. If at some point,
there is something that I cancontribute towards, or maybe in
this place, and we can meet upwhatever do that, that is

(50:33):
something that I think that notenough, not enough people do.
But just have zero expectation.
I think expectation is alsoanother thing that you've also
got to put aside, it's kind oflike, just sending your work and
putting your work up andexpecting it to, you know, draw
more followers or work or moneyinto your bank account. I think

(50:56):
that that is a big flaw. Andbeing you know, in the
millennial space, like, that'sthe disease of our time, man is
expectation and an entitlement.
It's like, oh, well, I've gotthis. So I deserve that. And
then you can bitch and moan andkick and scream about like a
little kid as much as you like,but it doesn't entitle you to

(51:18):
anything, you have to do thework. And the work is, whatever
it looks like from from yourend, it's like it's being
humble, just sticking to yourcraft, whatever your craft is
getting good at it, until peoplestarted approaching you. That's,
that's one thing I did, I didn'tdo it actively, it was just
something that I happened to do,I just focused so much on
getting better at this thing.
Because I just obviously hadthis thing inside of me, it's

(51:40):
like, I just want to get betterat this thing. And I had enough
of an interest in it, to want todo it more and more and more. So
whether it was holding a pieceof paper, or creating an
animation or making a piece ofmusic, whatever it was, I did, I
just was obsessed with gettingbetter at it for myself, you
know, regardless of whatfeedback I was getting, it was
nice to get feedback. It's niceto have a couple of 1000
followers, you know, the nextday, in your account, but, and I

(52:02):
tried very hard not to let thosemetrics drive me. And I think
that that served me well, upuntil now.

Dustin Steffey (52:12):
You know, you bring up a good point because I
feel expectation leads to pride.
And I'm guilty of this, becausewhen I graduated with my
undergrad, me being amillennial, and all as you so
kindly stated. I, I thought andI think this leads back to high
school, so I'll get into it. ButI thought after I graduated with

(52:34):
my undergrad, I was going tomake buku money. And I it was an
expectation that I would, Iwould make set money. But what I
didn't realize was there thatgetting my education was a key
puzzle piece, to the greaterpuzzle of getting that
experience within said industryto be able to make that money.

(52:59):
Now in my older age, Iunderstand it and get it. But at
that time, it's funny that youbrought that up because I did
expect more than I think Ideserved right. And I think
we're conditioned in that way tobe honest with you ever asked me
because in high school, when Iwas in high school, at least I

(53:20):
don't know how it is now, theywere driving the point, if you
go to college, you'll make Xamount. And if you get your
Masters, you'll make X amount.
And if you get your doctorate,you'll make X amount. So they
kind of drove that into yourbrain a little bit to create
that entitlement. I also thinkentitlement leads to pride as
well, too. And man did I have abig ass chip on my shoulder when

(53:43):
I graduated. But, I mean, theseare all valid points. And these
are all very real points. And soI just I wanted to bring kind of
some of my, some of myexperience into that because I
too did fall for that bug. But Ido realize now, it it isn't

(54:04):
about the education. It isn'tabout pride. It isn't about any
of that. It's about consistency.
It's about continuing to do theright things all the time. And
eventually, if you keep going,things will fall into place.
There's always something thatfalls into place. It may not be
instant gratification becausethat's the culture we're in

(54:25):
right now. Let's be realistic,instant gratification. It isn't
instinct gratification. You haveto put the work in and take the
time to do it and perfect yourcraft before you can move
forward.

Ross Symons (54:39):
Yeah, exactly for fall in love with making fall in
love with the process fall inlove with the journey because if
you don't and you know I saidfall in love with it seems like
this. Boy, you've got to findyour passion and you've got to
that's also another whole loadedsort of school of thought like
you've got to find the thingthat would like you wake up I

(55:00):
don't wake up in the morning andgo, Oh man, I get to fold some
paper today, I get to animatesome shit. It's like this.
Sometimes I am excited aboutjobs. But it's I honestly don't
wake up feeling like that. iThere is mornings where I wake
up and I'm like, Oh, I'm gonnamake something today. I'm not
even sure what it is. But I getthis urgency to make something
and then I'd sit down the pathof cool. Can I keep this

(55:22):
inspiration going, can I fallasleep tonight, wake up tomorrow
morning with the same thingstill have the idea and still
keep on doing that. And thenattempt to make that thing. And
when work comes in, it's kind oflike, okay, that gives my, I
guess my inspiration a bit oftime to you no build up again.
Because then I'm focused on thejob, and the work and I need to
get it done. And the times whereI'm working and I've got like

(55:44):
long stretches of six, sevenweek jobs where, at the end of
it, I feel inspired, I'm tired,but I feel like okay, cool.
Well, I get a chance to makesomething. Next, make something
that comes from me, that doesn'tnecessarily sometimes there's
jobs where I'm just like, wow,this is amazing. I did, I did a
job for the Pixar or Disney plusjob, where I had to, they wanted

(56:05):
to make an origami version ofthe stop frame animation as well
with the up house, you know, thelittle house from with the
balloons and whatever. Yeah, I

Dustin Steffey (56:13):
love that house.
My daughter does too. Yeah, it'san

Ross Symons (56:16):
IT everyone loves the house. And they asked me to
do it because they werelaunching up onto Disney plus,
it was just like this resurgenceof the content. And you know,
for me, that was just an amazingjob. Because it was something I
grew up with something I watchedmany, many times, and I loved
it. So sometimes you get thosejobs, where it's just full
passion, then you just like, andthat's again, that's just a

(56:37):
graceful thing that happens. Butso you know, falling in love
with the process and reallywaking up every day. And and I
think entrepreneurs sometimes dothis as well, they were they
maybe convinced themselves thatthey love the hustle, they love
going to bed at like 2am in themorning, waking up at six and
then just grinding again.
Bullshit, you are not afunctioning or fully functioning

(56:58):
human being if you're doing thatday in and day out. And I know
there's a lot of people thatthat are really promoting and
they driving this whole hustleculture. And I think it's it's a
it's a problem. Because no oneis really because specially
they're not seeing the instantgratification. They're not
getting the results that comefrom a place of expectation and
privilege. And women areprivileged but it expectation

(57:21):
and word lasted now anyway, it'syou just hope that this happens
all the time. And as a result ofthat, when the thing doesn't
come to you straight away, thenyou get all bummed out and
you're like, Oh, well, you know,then the world's the problem.
And it's nothing that you'redoing. Obviously, you deserve to

(57:42):
get all this you you have adoctorate in or maybe not a
doctorate, but you have somequalification that you've been
led to believe is going to allowyou a certain amount of money
and also a specific lifestyle.
But how many people does thathappen for and if what I was
going to say about that wholething is, if you look at the
amount of student debt inAmerica, I mean, that's

(58:05):
something that just is it'scrazy. So if if they were
telling everyone at schools, youknow, dipping into the
conspiracy theory, but like ifthey're telling everybody at
school, they're driving thiswhole, like, you must go and
study, you have to go do thisthing, but the only way you can
study is by taking a studentloan, because they know down the
line, that that that has to bepaid back how many people are in

(58:27):
like debt and will be in debtfor the rest of their lives
because of the thing they wentand studied. And they're not
even using that qualificationnow, I'm wondering what is?
Yeah, there we go. You got aman, it's like, it's, to me,
it's just like that is a, it's aclear cut case of like, well,
what is actually going on here,I think it brings massive bell

(58:50):
of urgency to, you know, to fixthe education system for one.
And, and also we're not in theIndustrial Revolution anymore.
So getting a job as typist orgetting a job as even a lawyer
or a doctor, those jobs are notgoing to be there. With you
know, back to what we weresaying about AI and and that is

(59:14):
going to change things and goingforward, you need to be on the
lookout for the machine that'sgoing to replace either replace
your job or it might not be I'veread a lot of sort of comments
from people that are saying indifferent industries that it's
not the AI that's going toreplace your job. That's the
person who has the samequalification or skills as you

(59:34):
that has decided to use andimplement AI into their process,
that person is going to takeyour job. And when you have an
engineer that comes in anengineer that's fresh out of
school, but you have an engineerthat's fresh out of school that
has this understanding of AI andhow he can or she can use that
to better the company, thatperson is going to get the job
hands down. So don't be scaredof AI be scared not to

(59:57):
understand it. You know that'sthat just my thoughts on that.

Dustin Steffey (01:00:02):
I think I'm gonna take that as the key
knowledge bomb of that episodeis don't be scared to learn
about other things just becauseyou think it's going to take
your job away or whatever,embrace it, and see if you can
leverage it to move forward andchange with the times that are
changing. So, Ross, I have onelast question for you, which is,

(01:00:28):
we've had all these interestingknowledge bombs. We've had great
conversation, people resonatewith people, if they want to get
a hold of you, what's a good wayto get a hold of you?

Ross Symons (01:00:39):
Yeah, so Instagram, if you're on Instagram, my
Instagram account is white onrice. That's the brand that I
run that essentially runs alittle mini origami agency.
white on rice. Whites, you canGoogle Watson rice origami, my
website will come up. I'm onFacebook. If you want to get

(01:00:59):
ahold of me, I'm Ross at whitedash on rice.com. And, yeah, I'm
on LinkedIn as well. So we canchat there. But I answer all my
comments, I answer all the DMSthat I get. And I look forward
to speaking to people that haveyou know, whether it's an idea
or they just want to find outsomething or maybe I can help in
some way. So I'm always keen tochat to people. So yeah, you can

(01:01:23):
find me there.

Dustin Steffey (01:01:24):
Well, you obviously know I'm keen to chat
with people. I chat with peoplefor a living.

Ross Symons (01:01:29):
It's amazing. No, it's a cool job man. And, and
your your shows really cool.
Like I really liked thequestions that you asked. It's
not It's not every day that Ihave to think I'm like, Okay,
well, that's a interesting wayof looking at it. So yeah, thank
you for your honesty and energy.
It's been a really cool chat.

Dustin Steffey (01:01:45):
Thank you for coming on. Thank you for being a
creative that comes on and she'sreally passionate about what
they do and you have theexperience to back it and kind
of have the knowledge to answerthe hard questions. So thank you
for coming on.

Ross Symons (01:01:59):
Yeah, anytime