SPECIAL EPISODE: Exploring the Future of College Sports and Athlete Success with Dwayne Taylor

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dustin Steffey (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of chopping with
fire.
I'm excited We're going to bebringing back on Dwayne and
we're going to close out our NILand our transfer portal
episodes that we've recordedover this past month.
So there's going to be more tocome in just a moment.

(00:21):
So let's chop it up.
Welcome to your top ratedglobal podcast that is your one
stop shop for everythingEntrepreneurship, self
development and smart investmentdecisions.
This podcast is hosted by owner, doctor and creator, dustin

(00:45):
Steppy.
We're blessed to have accoladesthat include a 2022 nomination
by the people's podcast awardsIn the category of business
money donated to two amazingcauses cystic fibrosis and the
boys and girls club.
Lastly, global recognition ofthe top 50 podcast in four

(01:05):
countries.
Without further ado, let's chopit up.
Welcome back to another episodeof chopping with fire.
You're joined with yours truly,dustin Steppy and my special
guest, my buddy Dwayne TaylorDwayne, welcome back.

Dwayne Taylor (01:30):
It's good, it's good to be back.
It's always a pleasure to geton here and talk shop with you.
So you know I'm honored and I'mlooking forward to this
conversation, this dialogue,this back and forth.

We got finished business, you know we do, man,
you know.

is it ever really finished business, though, when
we're talking college sports?
No, never in IL.
I don't think it's ever.

No, and there were.
There were nuggets we left outon purpose because we wanted to
see where everything heads like.
So we're going to, we're goingto tie some things together.
Today, i think we're going toreally just hone in on a few
things that you know, leftpeople thinking like, ok, what
more is there?
So I'm I mean I'm excited We gota, we got a pretty packed

(02:20):
agenda, so we're going to try tobe as succinct as possible, but
we definitely got some goodjust some good key nuggets and
some good research between youand I, and it's going to be some
exciting stuff.

Let's do it for sure.
It it always is.
Now let's make magic on thispodcast.

We always do, we always do something, so
definitely speaking of that realquick, just want to bring up
one quick housekeeping thing.
In two weeks the people get tovote on us.
So in two weeks, the 2023People's Podcast Awards are open
and voting up.
So OK.

(03:00):
I would love it if we win thenomination and then win it this
year.

Well, who do we, who do we need to call?
Let's, let's do it, let's, man,man.
who do I need to?

make a house call to You know right.
No.
So, like for this, first stepfrom July 1st to the July 30th
is voting by the people.
So the biggest thing is isbeing active.
So going on to the website,which I'll disclose in a couple
of weeks, voting for job andwith fire and getting us the
nomination.
Once we get the nomination, howit works is it goes in front of

(03:35):
the committee and then it'sit's on them to vote.

For me, really you know, ok, ok, so we need
that vote.
Yeah, we do.

So we're going to get it.

I believe so, and we don't give them no choice.
No, not at all No choice.

No, come on, Let's, let's, let's be real here
.
Like, we know we got somethinggood here, so we, just right, we
, we don't even need thevalidation.
Just let's, let's win it.

That's it.
Just give it to us now.
Yeah, it's already, it'salready done.
Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, i'm going to.
I'm going to do what I did whenI played sports.
Right, i'm going to go to bedwhen asleep and I'm going to
visualize the win, holding thetrophy.

Oh man, that's self fulfilling prophecy.

Yeah.

Oh man, You've got to love it.
And that is so real too.
That's so true.
Yeah, you got to see it.
You got to see it first, beforeit actually comes to life.

Right, right.
So that's only housekeepingthing I have.
Obviously, social media isimportant, guys.
If you haven't done it already,add on over to our socials.
There's millions of socials,all right, so let's.
I guess I'll be a little morespecific.
We have all the main socials.
Find your favorite one.
Find shopping with fire.

(04:56):
Give us a comment, give us alike, subscribe, Tell us how
we're doing.
Let's have some fun with that.
We love audience engagement, socheck us out.
Youtube, another importantmedia and all of our episodes
are video recorded.
So if you want to see my uglymug, you want to see Duane's
ugly mug, you want to seeanybody's ugly mug, head on over

(05:17):
to youtubecom.
Forward slash chopping withfire.

Check us out right there.

Yeah.

It's waiting for you.

Literally a keystroke away.

And make sure you pound that like button when you
check us out too.

Absolutely, let's dive into current events.
So we brought up Aaron Rodgerslast time.
I want to bring him up just onelast time.
And the reason I'm harping onAaron Rodgers is I can't harp on
Tom Brady.
He's retired, so let's harp onanother veteran, right?
So Aaron Rodgers completesperfect attendance for Jets OTAs

(05:54):
.
He did have a strain cap so hewas limited in practicing.
However, he was there, he wasvocal, he was trying to just
really be a part of the teamright, and kind of understand
his dynamic in part.
This is different than whatwe've seen in the past, because

(06:14):
in the past Aaron wouldn'treally go to OTAs.
He doesn't partake in them.
That's just not who he is.
So I don't know, dwayne, whatare your thoughts?

I think he's trying to make the right
impression And he's probably, iwould think, part of like.
The reason Aaron shows that roleis because, one, they have a
really good team And I think,two, there's a young quarterback
on the roster right Who hastalent but, i think, lacks the
understanding on how to be anNFL coach I mean NFL player and

(06:47):
like, with all the preparation,whether it be, you know, coming
out to practice early, puttingin extra time to study, you know
, the playbook, you know.
And so I believe that wascommunicated to Aaron like, hey,
aaron, we need you to be justcompletely dialed in because
everybody respects what you'vedone in this league, but now
they need to see it, you know,on a day-to-day basis, they need

(07:09):
to see all the nuance you bringto the game.
So, being at all the OTAs right, being in the locker rooms,
being vocal, being, you know,the leader that everybody
believes, a guy who's won SuperBowl and multiple MVP's, they
want to see that, and I think hetook a step in that direction
by attending all the OTAs.

(07:29):
So I'm hoping that he continueson this trajectory, because
everything coming out of greenbase made it sound like he
didn't want to be part of theteam And that goes back five
years.
You know He's always been insome kind of rift with
management over there, so it wasrefreshing to see that Aaron
Rodgers is, you know, trying tostart off his new career in New

(07:51):
York with, you know, on theright foot, so to speak.

Yeah, i agree with that.
I think it's nice to have aclean, fresh, straight, straight
sorry, clean fresh slate.
Whoever you are right, this isa good opportunity for Aaron to
come in to the New York Jetsright, put his stamp on there,
be a mentor which is superimportant for these young guys

(08:16):
Right And kind of show peoplewhat he's about.
It's time for him to humbledown a little bit and for him to
just let his action speak forit.
So I'm excited for the seasonfor them.
I'm excited to see what Aaronbrings to the table.
I hope that you know I wish himthe utmost success there.

(08:36):
I don't know how many years hehas left, and so I hope that he
makes another Super Bowl and hekind of just proves the
Naysayers wrong.

Yeah, i think so And I mean, but let's talk about
it because New York Jets Ithink I believe this is year
three for the head coach, robertSalah, who came over from San
Francisco as the decocoordinator.
It seems to be, you know, justfrom a arm chair football fan,
you know it feels like.

(09:07):
You know he has a lot ofrespect from the players in the
locker room and probably even inNFL circles.
You know what I mean.
And perhaps Aaron just has morerespect for Robert Salah than
he did some of the leadership inGreen Bay, and so he's willing
to, you know, maybe acquiesce toall their requests and all
their demands.
You know, and perhaps that'swhy he showed up at all the OTAs

(09:31):
.

Well, we'll see more to come in that.
Obviously we will.
Yeah, we will definitely see.
I again wish him nothing butsuccess.
He's not my top favoritequarterback, but he's up there
in quarterbacks that I respect.

So I like Aaron.
I like his game.
I'm sorry I can't agree withyou.
I like Aaron Rodgers.

Yeah, aaron like congratulations, keep up the
trajectory and good job there.

You know I got a little and not to cut you off,
you're good.

Aaron.

Rodgers is a NorCal guy, i'm a NorCal guy, so
I've got to pay homage rightnow, so yeah, yeah Well, we'll
see what he does.

more to come on that.
I'm sure this isn't the lasttime we speak on him.
when the NFL season starts,we'll probably start diving in,
so sure.
Let's you know what.
Let's head into kind of whywe're here, right?
So we've put together anepisode on the transfer portal.
So if you haven't listened tothat, please go and listen to
the transfer portal episode.

(10:35):
Dwayne unfortunately couldn'tbe a part of it.
We did an episode on NIL andthat episode was packed and well
received.
I think today we're going toblend it all together.
We're going to bring up acouple of things that we
strategically did not bring upAnd we're going to kind of close

(10:56):
the gaps a little bit and tieeverything together.
So, with that being said,transfer portal news there is
nothing that I have right now.
I mean everything is pretty lowkey right now considering most
of the college sports worldright now, for football,
completed spring training,completed the spring scrimmage

(11:19):
games, we're going into summerworkouts, so there's not really
anything notable right now.
I haven't seen any new news asfar as the transfer portal and
any of these schools yet, asidefrom what we already brought up
last time.
So nothing really new in thetransfer portal world.
Again, that could change.

It could change.
The transfer portal is kind ofhas a mind of its own, you know
it does but I mean, but you know, I feel bad for anybody that's
sitting in the transfer forfootball.
I feel bad for anybody who'ssitting in it right now.

It might be hard to find a home you know, it's
it's rough.
It's rough because thattransfer portal and, as we
stated before, of every athletethat goes into it, probably
about 50% and that's higher thannormal go to a different school
.
So there's still the other 50%that are kind of sitting there

(12:20):
in free agency land, right?

Yeah, really I mean so for guys in the transfer
.
if I'm in the transfer portal,football season starts in August
.
Can I still attend classes atmy current institution?

I'm not sure or certain on that.
I don't want to misspeak onthat, but you would have to
assume in my mind, until youfind a new home, you're still
going to the school that you'reat, but you may not be on
scholarship.

Yeah, so might be paying student loans, pale
grants and salary from in andout burger, wherever you might
be working at.
Yeah, that's a tough one.

Well, it draws another question too for me,
which we won't be able to answer, i think.
But the other question is whatis the dropout rate of
collegiate athletes from collegeif you can't get out of that
transfer portal and do a newschool and you can't afford
college?

That's a good question, because most athletes
it's my understanding, once theysubmit their name to the portal
, the current school they're atdoesn't allow them to come back
for the most part.

And it takes their scholarships away.
Absolutely yeah, which it's abusiness, so of course that
makes sense.

Like, think about it.
You go in, you tell youremployer I'm leaving.
They say all right.
Then you say, oh no, i want tocome back.
Uh-uh, no, no, no, it's nothappening.

So Yeah, i don't think I've ever been involved
in something where if I leftlike they, let me come back Like
that's just.
That's like going back to yourex After like you got dumped
Like what the fuck.

Yeah, it's like you tell her hey, honey, i'm
leaving.
Then she, you give it likethree weeks, they stop and think
she's going to take you back.
I don't know about that.

Yeah, it's like hey, babe, can I get a hall pass
for a month?
I just think the grass isgreener on the other side.
So like give me a month Andthen, if it doesn't work, like
don't worry, you're my secondchoice.

Right, you know and I'll yeah.
And see that being.
I can't see that working outtoo well.

No, i don't.
I don't think so Yeah.
So, yeah, so transfer portalnews wise, nothing new yet Again
, the transfer portal stillrather new, like NIL.
Still lots of things, still alot of, you know, red tape and a
lot of things to manage there.
I don't know if you haveanything you want to add on the

(15:07):
transfer portal that we haven'talready discussed, but I mean
four years if you do.

Now we've covered it very well, but I do believe
I believe the transfer portalAnd I don't want I don't want to
get too ahead of us, but Ibelieve I believe the transfer
portal And I believe the NIL.
I believe the driving forcebehind both of those was put in

(15:35):
motion around 2014,.
2015 is what I believe And thatwas when the Northwestern
football team made attempts tounionize and petitioned the
National Labor Relations Boardwith their request And that was,
you know, you might remember,that was the starting
quarterback, was a really goodplayer, a smart player.

(15:57):
Kane Coulter was really likespearhead and that whole crusade
right, and they wereunsuccessful.
They were unsuccessful withunionizing And one of the things
that they were asking about wasthey were looking for long term
health and medical benefits.
You know, on that was liketheir core focus.

(16:18):
But then they were talkingabout, like you know, lack of
academic support, talking about,you know, stipends.
Which are these?
these monthly stipend checkswere given from the university
to the scholarships to anathlete to help, you know, pay
for, like their incidentals andhousing.
So like rent, groceries, yourutilities, and it's it's not.

(16:38):
I mean, i can't speak for whatit was at Northwestern or any
other school, but I could justspeak to how it was, where I was
at And it wasn't.
It was, it wasn't a lot ofmoney left over at the end of
the month to for leisureactivities, but I don't want to
get off on that.
But I believe the NIL and Ibelieve the transfer portal are
byproduct of this movement thatwas started by Kane Coulter in

(17:04):
20, 20, 15, 2016.
And that was when they triedthey attempted, unsuccessfully
to unionize college athletics.
They didn't, they weren'tsuccessful in that, but it got
the conversation started withhow can we allow athletes to
make money off of their, their,their marketing themselves?
So which morphed into name,image and likeness And, within

(17:28):
that, the transfer portal.
You know, because if you give aguy, if you give an athlete name
, image and likeness, ability,ability to make money off
marketing themselves, you'reallowing people to have more
control over their own, theirdominion, their, their, their,
their, their person, their nameright, image, likeness.
So now you need to give themautonomy to be able to make

(17:49):
decisions on where they want toplay sports right, because if
I'm in New Mexico but I could, ihave the opportunity to go play
in Las Vegas, southern Cal,florida, larger market, because
I can get more money throughmarketing and branding myself,
then I shouldn't be penalized,and I think that's where the

(18:11):
transfer portal came to be.
So there was like a perfectstorm of both of those together,
which was fueled by everythingthat happened five years prior.
So it's really interesting.
You know thought, but I believethat's, i believe you know
that's.
I believe we're onto somethingwith that.

It's a good segue into my next current event
topic, actually.
So a couple of days ago, ncaapresident Charlie Baker said he
wants a federal law to regulatehow college athletes are paid
And within this federal law hewants to create a registry of

(18:50):
deals, he wants to have agentcertification involved and he
wants to uniform contractstandards.
So he wants this to try andpass before next year's election
.
So the reason behind that is,with next year's election going
in, it's just going to pushthings back more and more right.

(19:10):
So he's trying to really pushthis to the forefront and get
this to pass.
However, if it does not pass,then he doesn't want to pass.
If it does not pass, then hesaid that the NCAA will take it
into their own hands and try toclean it up on their own.
So there's a lot within that.

(19:31):
I mean the NCAA got pummeledpummeled when NIL came through,
okay, so.
So to build on to kind of theconversation you just had, i
mean, when NIL passed a coupleof years ago, it was a nine to

(19:52):
zero unanimous decision by theSupreme Court, and there are not
, like I can count on one handhow many times a sports issue
has been pushed to the SupremeCourt level, i think maybe two,
with this one being one of them.
So that was a.

(20:13):
That was a big, big thing.
And furthermore, this is thepart that, like, makes me laugh,
man.
So in that court decision acouple of years ago, the NCAA
lawyer, their rebuttal to no NILwas well, well, mr Mr Judge,

(20:36):
mrs Judge, the NCAA is foundedon just having these college
athletes play sports for freeand just to have their education
, and that's it.
What, what the fuck, seriously,like what, no, no, so, so, so

(21:02):
let's.
Let's rewind this for a secondhere.
So you mean to fucking tell methat you can go and cash out on
all of your athletes performingfor you on a big stage, because
collegiate athletics is big,make money on the ticket sales,
butts and seats, make money onthe sport at that time for that

(21:25):
season with those players, andnot pay the players anything.
What, what, like?
this is why.
This is why NIL came to light.
Like it isn't out of theordinary to have some form of

(21:46):
monetization for the players.
The players are performing, theother ones beating themselves
up, breaking their legs, blood,sweat and tears, like, why not?
That rebuttal right there mademe fucking laugh, like when I
heard that I was like cool, soI'm a statistic, like no dude,

(22:09):
no, but that I just wanted tobring that up and bring that to
light.
So Kavanaugh pretty muchSupreme Justice Kavanaugh beat
the live in hell out of the NCAand said, no, if everyone else
has to be held to thesestandards, so does the NCA.
So does the NCA?
If you're going to monetize andmake money, the players are

(22:33):
going to as well.

I just wonder how we're going to, how they're
going to pay them is always whatI wonder.
I don't know.
We have more to come, man.

Like we're only two years into the NIL and this
thing's, this thing's taken offlike wildfire.
It's going to evolve And sothere's definitely going to be
more to come.
But I just wanted to bring thatup because that right there
like made me laugh and it nowties into this current event
news.
right, so it makes me laughbecause the NCA was so dead set

(23:05):
against the NIL and now all of asudden like oh well, we have to
be held to the NIL.
Now we need to clean it up.
Yeah, it is a wild, wild West.

I think you know.
what I do believe is I thinkuniversities so much aren't
against payers, players makingmoney.
I think the universities justdon't want to be responsible for
paying the player.
That's right, right.
So they're like hey, nil, gofor it Have at it.
You know, as long as you know,the University of Arizona

(23:40):
doesn't have to pay for theseplayer salaries out of the
general fund or the endowments.
We're good.
Yeah, that's it, that's thecase.
You know, because you know I dida little research on NIL too,
and in 2022, they said it'sreported that about 17% of
student athletes at Division 1sparticipated in NIL activities.

(24:04):
So that's that's a small amount, you know.
So there's, i want to say, 300D1s across, like basketball,
across all sports, i thinkbasketball has the most with
like three, i want to say it'slike 300 to 310.
So, if we're talking about theNIL, we're talking about the D1

(24:25):
athletes.
You know, i don't know how manyD1 athletes there are, but
that's not a.
You know, it's not a lot.
So that means 87% of studentsat D1s did not, you know.
So that's excuse me, 83% rather, excuse me.
So it's interesting, but thatnumber will grow, right.

(24:46):
So that's the number that'sgoing to grow.
It's interesting, but thatnumber will grow Right, it's
going to grow, it's going toincrease.

I think so.
As of right now, and this isjust based off of the NCA
website There is about 187,000student athletes that compete at
the Division 1 level.
Ok, so 187,000.
Let's do the math real quick.
You said 17%, right?

Yeah, I've got a calculator here too, So let's
see 187,000.
Division 1 athletes.

So that means roughly well.
The exact number is 31,790athletes have some form of NIL.

And now let's drill down a step further.
All right, so they said localdeals surpassed.
You know all deals withnational brands, right?
So that's like your localsandwich shop, burger joint, the
local clothing store, all that.
That's where the bulk of yourNIL deals came from.
You know restaurants they liketo call them quick service

(25:55):
restaurants, but that's justlocal fast food chain.
You know something like theMcDonald's or a Takaria,
something like that, and thatwas only.
That was like 20 percent, about20 percent, of NIL deals.

So the big deals , so like Mercedes and all of
that.

Those are small.
They said auto category at autocategory was at 4 percent.

So 4 percent.
4 percent of 187,000.
Yeah is 7,500 athletes.
That's still quite a bit 7,500athletes divided by three.

So that's maybe.
so there's 7,500 in those 300schools.
That means, yeah, that's, thisis a decent amount.

I mean, if we're , if we're looking at this,
versus professional, that'spretty decent amount, man.
Yeah there's more athletes inthe college world, I believe,
than in the professional scope.

But what I wonder ?
I wonder what sports made upthat percentage, Because one
thing they did report is that alot of Division one athletes in
the non revenue generatingsports were the ones that were
making it.
Making it so, like yourgymnastics, maybe golf, you know

(27:20):
some of the right rifleshooting archery, you know
equestrian, Maybe the swim anddive teams like.
That's horrible.

So the teams that go probably to the Olympics
and Olympic sports are the onesthat probably are getting a
little bit more.
If we're drawing someconclusions here, i know we're
focused on football and we'refocused on collegiate football,
but, like, if we're reallydrilling down on this, i think,

(27:54):
like you're onto something here,these non like you know, these
non funded sports are thesesports that are funded very
little and have more appeal forthe NIL.

Yeah.

Then like football and basketball and
stuff.
Actually, you know, I need totake basketball out of that
because I think the biggest one,if we look at football and
basketball, it's probablybasketball for NIL.

Yeah, i would think so, because there's a
immediate return to the in theprofessional ranks, right?
So if you got a hot shotbasketball player who is, you
know, certified top, a lotterypig, the shoe companies might
want to come snatch them upimmediately.
right, that's, that's the goal,it's like recruiting, in my

(28:38):
opinion.

So when I look at this, these are like, like
people, endorsements andtraining, right.
So like Nike goes to I don'tknow whatever hot shot that's in
college, like, hey, we're goingto do this with you And if you
do well and you make it intoprofessionals, we're going to

(28:59):
sign a bigger deal, or whateverthe case may be.
I think it's a good trainingground for who the new like face
of whatever company is going tobe for that sport at that time.
Like I think it's a trial runin my opinion, because when you
look at it, nil outside of ofcollegiate sports is not NIL,

(29:25):
it's just endorsement deals,that's it.

That's it.
Wow, yeah, i mean, think aboutthat.
That's, i think I think NIL andyou know, you know, i think
like with like marketing firms,right, like to go on like the
shoe deals, like how do they, ifthey get it?

(29:53):
like, how do you, if you findsomebody you want to sponsor,
like what does that contractlook like?
Like if, if I give you an NIL,you're a hotshot basketball
player, i'm Nike, can I give youlike the full $10 million shoe
deal as part of your NIL rightnow?
Or do I need to say I'm goingto give you like, is there like

(30:16):
a cap?

Why would you, though, like let's let's think
about this for a second herewith our business minds, because
you and I are highly educated.
If I am the marketing directorof Nike and I am looking for my
next face in that sport, it isperfect for me to approach a
collegiate athlete, mold thatmind a little bit, give a little

(30:41):
bit because you're not signingan endorsement deal test the
waters And then, if things workout right, automatically have an
endorsement deal ready whenthey're a professional athlete.

Let me ask you this then So you're that, you're
that big shot marketingexecutive with Nike?
There's a really good, reallyexceptional basketball player.
Everybody says he is going tobe the number one overall pick.
You think he'll sell a lot ofshoes, but he's not very
marketable.

You mold him to be marketable though.
So like, okay, that in thebusiness world, as you and I
both know, if you're deficientin a category, or as we like to
call it in the business world,if you have opportunities that
need to be addressed, you playoff the strengths and you

(31:35):
develop that person with theopportunities to make those
opportunities not opportunitiesanymore.
So it really takes selfdevelopment and like that like
little realm to the next level,and maybe, as a marketing
director, i'm being smart, so Ihave, like I don't know, maybe I

(31:57):
have like three or four PRfirms in my pocket And I'm like,
listen, i'm going to hook youup with this PR firm.
They're going to help you withyour NIL along the way while
you're playing your collegiatesport.
They're going to help addresscertain things.
So when everything's all readyto go, when you become

(32:19):
professional, you're good,you're ready to go.
Your image is there, you're theface of our brand, and you also
have to keep this in the back ofyour head too, because you're a
business person.
So keep this in your mind too.
Nike's not the only oneapproaching this basketball star
, right?
I bet you, bet you a hundredbucks.
Adidas is under armor, all Puma, all of these, all of these are

(32:44):
coming at this person right,and this young mind is
overwhelmed already.
So now it's not about pickingwhich one's your favorite, it's
about picking the one thatprovides you that little bit
more spazazz.
So if I'm a marketing directorfor, like Nike, i'm pitching my
best damn pitch.

(33:05):
So this young athlete stickswith us.

And everything we just mentioned right now is
playing out across the college.
It's happening in this collegeecosystem right now, not with
every athlete, but they'rebird-dogging athletes that
they're like yo, that guy rightthere we can make good music
with him.

(33:33):
He's a little rough around theedges, but we need to sink our
hooks into him right now,enhance his areas where he's not
so strong and really highlightthe areas he excels.
Maybe he's very personal.
Football has a greatpersonality on top of being a
good athlete or stellar athlete.
So I think what you that'shappening right now in college

(33:54):
basketball for sure, because youcan get them out of college
into the pro ranks where you canjust really just I mean you can
make them the face of yourorganization if you want to.
But football you gotta waitthree years.

It's like you said to me, it's the Wild West
right now.
So there aren't very many rulesaside from what we brought up
in our last episode with the redtape on following the like
state regulations, universityand college regulations, nca
regs So there's not very manylike clear cut, like defined
rules on where to head right.

(34:29):
So, yeah, it's like the WildWest, everybody's like fighting
for everything right now untilthere's more structure.
But you know what I like aboutthis conversation the most.
Let me remind you all we are aself development,
entrepreneurship, businesspodcast.
Everything that we just broughtup falls into those lines.

(34:52):
You're marketing yourself.
That's entrepreneurship.
You're trying to develop to bethis image for these companies
and be the face of the image andclean right That self
development right there.
This is why this topic andspeaking on sports and

(35:13):
specifically in IELN, all ofthat isn't far fetched from this
podcast.
We will be right back after aquick break.
It's summertime and you knowwhat that means summer
activities.
But before you head on out andget your tan on, you should
probably take a look at yourfitness levels.
That's where infernoperformance comes in.

(35:36):
My boy Dante over at infernoperformance is doing some good
things this summer.
He just released his app whereyou can enroll and have classes
sent to you and personalized foryour fitness needs.
He is the premier destination.
That's inferno performance yourone stop shop for all your
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(36:03):
Head on over to infernofit.
That'si N F E R N O dot F I Ttoday to book an appointment to
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inferno performance your onestop shop for all your

(36:25):
supplement and apparel fitnessneeds.

And everyone is not going to have the
opportunities for these sevenfigure marketing deals, even six
figure marketing deals, but forthose that do, these are things
they should consider.
I think you said it well Howdoes the athlete make a decision
on which company that they wantto align with?

(36:55):
Is it going to be Nike, is itgoing to be Puma, will it be
Adidas?
Will it be a Under Armour?
Who will it be?
How do you make that decision?
I think at that point itbecomes one of those situations
where they begin to ask themarketing agency what can you
guys do for me?
How can you help me beyond myplaying days?

(37:18):
How can you help me become moreof an icon within the American
sports, the international sportslandscape, not just
domestically, but we're talkingabout globally?
I think these are the questionsthat the athlete needs to have,
because that's the way toreally cement yourself and

(37:39):
establish a legacy, be atranscendent client of the
organization, not just sellingsneakers, but you want more out
of it.
So I think we're on tosomething.

And you know I had a soapbox moment last time,
right.
So the soapbox moment this timeis are these athletes really
considering this?
Are they jumping at the firstdeal that they get because
they're so excited and so young?
So for the soapbox moment, wejust kind of brought up the

(38:18):
roadmap right here And you arein this situation right now and
you're a collegiate athletelistening to us.
The first thing you need to dois go through the vetting
process is what I would call it.
You need to take all the dealsunder consideration before just
saying yes, you need to makesure that it's the right fit,

(38:39):
not only for you but for whereyou're heading.
So don't just take the deal totake the deal And a lot of these
young minds are because they'renot, they're not there yet in
thinking about these things.
So let's just give them thesauce right now, right at the
deals.
Make sure that this aligns withwhere you want to head.
Make sure that you can actuallyfulfill what they're asking of

(39:05):
you.
Like, if it's something that youdon't think you can fix, you
don't think you can developyourself, you don't think you
can be the person that you wantor they want you to be.
Don't take it Absolutely,because that's when issues
happen, that's when you fall onyour face, that's when you put
your ace of spades in and yousay this is my ace of spades

(39:27):
right here, and then one dayit's ripped from you And then
you have nothing.
You need to be a smart athletein this day and age, in this
world, right now, if you areintelligent enough to vet
through these things, take money, hire someone and make sure you

(39:49):
have someone in your corner tovet these things, because, guess
what?
You making one wrong decisionmay screw you over for the rest
of your career.
I think, you made a great point.

You know, make sure that the company that
you're going to join forces with, make sure the vision they have
for you within that companyaligns with what you want for
yourself, because if there's adisconnect it's going to fall
apart and it's not going to work.
They might want someone who'sgoing to be the face on

(40:24):
billboards, on all kind oftelevision commercials, but then
you just want to sell, you justwant to wear their sneakers on
the court or on the gridiron andthat's it.
You don't want to be in allthese commercials, you just want
the free product, you want thechecks, the royalty off all your
shoe line that's sold.

(40:45):
But you don't want to be in allthese commercials.
But if they want that, it's notgoing to work.
It's not going to work for you.
So really understanding wheretheir vision is it going to be
aligned with your vision of self?
So knowledge of self iscritically important in this
situation.

Right, that's number one, yeah, and
furthermore people probably getmesmerized with the money.

You know, they see, oh, company A is going to
give me three million Company.
B is going to give me fivemillion, but really company A is
a better fit, but it's lessmoney.

You know man, i would take three million right
now.

Yeah, me too.
Give it to me.
But in all honesty and, all inall, seriousness that situation
plays out for sure.

Oh yeah, oh yeah .
And here's the better thing.
Like, let's put it in, let'stake it from a different
approach, just in case theydidn't understand it, from the
approach we just brought up.
Let's take it from, like, whenyou and I graduated.
When we graduated, we had achip on our shoulder.
We had our degree, we're freshout.
We were like, hey, i'm ready tomake some money.

(42:02):
I was told in high school I canmake a hundred grand.
Where's my hundred grand?
That's not how it plays out inthe real world, folks.
So how it works in business isthe first thing you need to do
is find a job that aligns withyou, what you're about, your

(42:23):
personality, the company'sculture And, well better, align
with who you are.
Because if it does not, thenyou're going to be unhappy,
you're not going to lastBurnout's going to happen, and
that's all she wrote.
You're going to be jumping fromjob to job to job, living on

(42:43):
mommy's couch Still, because youcan't maintain a job, because
you forgot one critical step,which was finding something that
aligns with not only youreducation, but who you are and
what your make is.
So you really need to know inthis day and age, right fucking

(43:05):
now, who are you, what are you,what are you about?
I think all colleges at the endof your senior year should make
you write a paper where youhave to think about what did you
learn?
Who are you, what are you about?
Because that enlightens youinto helping to find something

(43:29):
that is the right fit for youafter college.
Now, to translate this backinto NIL, it's the same shit,
folks.
You need to know who you are topick the right deals to align
with you.
So if someone's telling youthat your image needs to be like
rainbows and unicorns andyou're that gritty ass guy or

(43:51):
girl for that matter that'sprobably not the right fit.

No, you're right, It probably isn't the right fit
, but it's like you said, youneed to understand who you are.
Aside from, you need tounderstand who you are, not what
you do, right?
So just because you playbaseball, basketball, you're a
gymnast, tennis player, footballplayer.
That's just what you do.
That doesn't define you, right.

(44:15):
So, like you're saying, youneed to know who you are so you
can make sure your opportunitiesare aligned with who you are at
your core.
Right, who you are when theplaying days are over, you know.
Are you gritty?
Maybe you're just an articulateguy who just wants to sit back
and read books and is ratherreserved and quiet.
Or some people are verygregarious, big personalities,

(44:38):
right, you need to get what acompany who values you, right?
And if you don't, it'severything you said, dustin.
It's not going to work andyou're going to be miserable.
You need to be kicking yourselfbecause you didn't take time to
really understand who you areand how it aligns with the
opportunities that have beenpresented to you, and that's

(44:59):
yeah, yeah, that's that's it.

That's just that's it, right there So it's
so simple, but it's really not.
Your sport is your resume.
Okay, like let's just berealistic here Your sport that
you've perfected since you werea little baby or whatever the
case may be, or you're ananomaly and you were perfecting
it only in college, that's theresume to get you into the door.

(45:26):
What gets you through the doorand locking the deals is all the
intangibles that we justbrought up.
So I just want everybody toknow that there is so much to
NIL already, but there is somuch more that these young minds
need to think about, and I willgo back to the episode that we

(45:49):
recorded last week as well andsay that your first priority
right now is not locking afucking NIL deal.
Your first priority right nowis to your education and your
team.
Do not and I repeat, do not bethat person, that guy or gal
that rolls the bus over the teamfor money.

(46:12):
Absolutely The team is the mostimportant part right now.
Be a team player.

You made a great point The high school athlete
looking to go to college the.
NIL.
the size of the NIL should notbe like the determining factor,
because your opportunity to getNIL at the school should not be
the determining factor on whereyou go Because, to be completely

(46:38):
honest, the value of the degreeis greater than the NIL you're
gonna get, unless you're thelottery pickin' the NBA.
you're a first round pickin'baseball, you're a top 10
pickin' football, who might havethese massive NIL deals The

(47:00):
average kid was only gettin'.
my statistics said $1,300 wasthe average per deal in NIL.
the first year, right Firstyear NIL deals, the average deal
was $1,300 and they said mediancompensation was $65 per NIL

(47:20):
deal.

So it's not significant, but the value of
that $1,300 is like toilet paperin this economy.

So come on, don't think about it.
That's $110 a month, actually$107.50, to be exact, per month.
So my thing is this I'm notagainst NIL, i'm all for it, but
I'm sayin' the value of thedegree, dollar for dollar, is
gonna be greater than what youget out the NIL.

(47:48):
So don't let the NIL be thedriving force on why you make
your decision to go to a school,right.

Listen.
Let's just put it into betterperspective for them.
The perspective is this you'renot gonna be in your sport until
you die.
That's just not gonna happen,and life is full of decisions.
Get your fuckin' degree becauseyou need something to fall back
on, because if you get injuredand I've seen this time and time

(48:16):
again and so have you.
That's it, that's all she wrote.
And if you were that personthat didn't get your degree,
well, i'm probably ordering aMcDonald's cheeseburger from you
, because you can't get into ajob that you were going to get
your degree for.
Because we are in the day andage now where a bachelor's

(48:38):
degree is a new high schooldiploma.
Right, we are in the day andage where, if you graduate high
school, that's greatCongratulations, and I am not
against, like everybody thatgraduates high school, please
graduate high school.
Do not not graduate high school.
But what I'm telling you iswe're in the day and age now

(49:00):
where a high school diploma doesnot mean shit.
A bachelor's degree is soinflated now it's a dime, a
dozen.
It doesn't mean shit anymore.
But a bachelor's degree is thenew entryway in any job right
now, and as we go through all ofthis, as my daughter gets older

(49:23):
.
A master's is probably the newbachelor's right.

It gives you some credibility.
It does give you somecredibility, And the credibility
is big right.

And let's be real, real quick, duane.
You and I have had thisargument before.
Let's be real.
A degree to me is notprestigious anymore.
A degree for employers is notand when I say prestigious I
mean two employers.
It's not prestigious anymoreunless you're going into, like

(49:57):
engineering, architecture,you're getting a Juris Doctorate
, whatever.
Okay, what a degree is to anemployer is?
it sparks their mind on sayingthat girl, that man, that woman,
that whatever was able to putforth four years without

(50:18):
quitting.
I want that person on my teambecause that shows me longevity.
That's what these employers andpeople look at when hiring.
When they say bachelor'spreferred or required or
whatever, it isn't because theywanna see your bachelor's and
they want you to fostertranscripts.

(50:39):
It's because they wanna see youcompleted it and you put the
four years in.
That shows, right there, somecredibility, that you're able to
stick something out.
You're not quitting.

Absolutely.
And it says even more when aman or woman goes back to school
.
They have the bachelor's degree.
They go back for the master'sdegree because now you're doing
something that you know.
Your mother or father, youraunt and uncle, they might have
forced you to go to get thebachelor's right.
But the master's degree, thatsecondary degree, that's all you

(51:15):
, that's your desire to continueyour education, to learn more,
to acquire new skills, to makeyourself a more valuable
contributor to the workforce ormaybe start your own business
right.
But it says something about theindividual that wants to go and
make that effort.

And then you have the like few insane people
like me that have thepost-secondary degree, and
that's not a dime, a dozen.
That's still a very, very, verysmall fraction of a percentage
of at least the US.

I think it's only like now I don't have this.
this one needs to befact-checked.
but I wanna say the number ofAmericans that have a PhD in any
domain is like 2%, maybe 1%,and I wanna say master's degrees
is somewhere around betweeneight to 12%.
The numbers are really small.

(52:12):
So we can get a fact-check onthat.
But if I was there I'd give youa pat on the back in that, in
that, in that atta boy, but thenumbers are small.

They are very small.
So right now, based off ofbased off of the US Census
Bureau, 53.7% as of 2021 havesome form of a collegiate degree
, So that could be anassociate's degree.

That could be associates on up.

So 53.7% of Americans have some form of a
degree, so diving into thecensus even more.
When we look at Americans witha master's degree, the numbers

(53:07):
change right.
So the number of people with amaster's degree ages 25 and over
is 13.4%.
I told you Of which.
Are you ready?
Of which the ages of 20% ofAmericans, of which the ages of
25 to 30 are 9% of that.

(53:29):
Okay, a professional degree.
So that's below doctorate andPhD, right, it's just a
professional degree.
3.4% ages 25 and over have thatdegree, of which 25 to 30, 2%
of that Doctorate 2% ofAmericans have a doctorate

(53:53):
degree right now, of whichbetween the ages of 25 to 30,
half of that 1% has.

Oh see, So you're pretty significant.

You're in elite and exclusive category right,
but those are importantstatistics to dive into, and
this leads to the conversationthat I had in the past.
okay, which was this?
So, if we look at associatesdegrees, right now it's pretty
well saturated at 45% ofAmericans have an associate.

(54:28):
A bachelor's is 35%.
That number when you and I weregoing through school was about
10% to 12% less, so it's supersaturated right now.
Masters is still pretty goodright.
It's still still prestigiousright.
It's still about 13%.
So only 13% of Americans wentpast bachelors so far, and this,

(54:55):
these statistics, are as of2021.

That's right.
They're not all current datathat's out there.

Yeah, this is the most current census, so when
we retake the census again,this number is going to be a
little bit bigger, but I stillthink from masters on is still
going to be smaller.
So what we're going to see is apretty big uptick in people
that went back to school duringCOVID and got their degree or
finished their degree out.

They a lot started it during COVID Even.

yeah even started it.
But the ones that didn't finishbut then they lost their job or
something happened or they hadmore time on their hand because
they were stuck at home Theyfinished their degree, And so
we're going to see in this nextcensus an uptick.
So what does this mean to whatwe're talking about right now,

(55:49):
Cause I don't want to get off ona tangent, drawing this
conclusion back to NIL andsports?
What this means is it's prettysignificantly important to
finish the school that you wentto on purpose.
Even if you went to be anathlete and you want to go in
the professionals, that's fine.
Get the damn degree So you setyourself up, That's it.

That's all, that's it.
That's it, and it's really likemake the decision.
the decision on where youchoose to attend school, if you
have multiple options, shouldnot be solely based on the NIL
value.
Nope, no, it needs to be.
you need to go somewhere.
that's even if you're unsure ofwhat you might do, write down

(56:36):
things that you might beinterested in doing, and try to
find schools that have programsor degree paths in those areas.
Yes, cause at some point, asDustin said, you're going to
have to lean on that degree,even if you're a top athlete.
all it takes is one injury, youknow, and your whole career has

(56:57):
been derailed.
And now you're looking up Ohcrap, what am I going to do now?

And let's let's be realistic here.
Even my buddy, dante X X,bengal X X, professional athlete
, opened up the gyms in Arizona.
He had a time period where hewas just blowing the money he
was making.
We know statistically that whenyou make a lot of money, you

(57:24):
spend a lot of money.
They're not investing it.
No, some might be, but the factof the matter is is you have to
have a fallback anyway, unlessyou're like Tom Brady, peyton
Manning or some of these big,big names where you can just buy
out Aaron Rodger, yeah, whereyou can just buy out a damn team
and create your own careerafter football or whatever, like

(57:47):
that's an anomaly, you don'tsee every athlete doing that.
So you have to I repeat, youhave to set yourself up.

And that's it.
And when we're talking football, the average career span is 3.3
years.
So let's just say a guy madehis first year, he was 22,.
Year two, he was 23,.
Year three, he was 24.
He gets cut three, two gamesinto the fourth season and never

(58:18):
plays again.
And he was making leagueminimum, let's say 700, 800,
900,000 or whatever it was.
That's not enough money to livethe rest of your life.

No.

It's just not because you're so young.

Right.

And then it was going to be taxed.
Oh yeah, and I'm not sittinghere to sound like a pessimist,
but let's be honest.
You're making that money,you're paying taxes on it and
you've got to figure out what'sgoing to happen next, right.
And then you've got to havesome understanding of where you
want to go, because each dayyou're not in the league and

(58:57):
you're trying to get on yourbills or continue to come.
Your apartment, your mortgage,your car payment, you're just.
The occupation of livingrequires money, so you've got to
have something to fall back on.
So, as you said, don't let theNIL and the allure of the
transfer portal keep youbouncing ping pong from school

(59:17):
to school to the point where younever get a degree.
And we've seen some basketballathletes and I don't want to
pick on basketball, but we'veseen basketball athletes.
Four years, four schools, right, i don't know how that even can
work, but it's happening, it'sgoing down and that's a thing,

(59:40):
and I can't see how that studentathlete can actually graduate,
you know.

I can't see if I'm the manager of a
professional team, so say I'mthe manager of I don't know, the
Golden, the warriors.
We'll just say the warriors.
I'm sitting there and I'msaying why do I want to recruit
that guy?
He may be talented but hebounced from school to school to
school.
Who's to stop him from bouncingfrom professional club to

(01:00:10):
professional club toprofessional club?
Yeah like it.
That's your resume, right there.
Your resume has a track recordof bouncing from school to
school to school.

Dwayne Taylor (01:00:22):
Absolutely.

Dustin Steffey (01:00:23):
Why do I want you?

I mean and I'll put my scout hat on right now
Like you will look at that as ageneral manager, you're going to
say well, obviously there couldbe situations where someone you
know starts at one school andtransfers to another.
Right, it just wasn't the, itwasn't a good fit.
like the, the schemes changedand they were no longer.
their skills didn't fit whatthe team wanted to do, so you

(01:00:48):
leave, right.
But a kid who's been to fourschools, you start to say, well,
did they leave?
They didn't give their chance,they didn't give themselves the
opportunity to fail, becausesoon as there was a sign of
failure or things were goingtheir way, they didn't want to
buckle down and work harder tochange their situation and make
it improve it.

(01:01:08):
They just said you know what?
I'm going to take the easy wayout.
I'm going to go get in thetransfer report.
I want to go to another school,you know and that's.
and you want to see some someability to persevere.
right, as a, as a, as a scoutor general manager, picking
players for a team.
I think that's importantbecause you need to see that
this person has dealt with that.

(01:01:29):
How do?

they handle adversity Right.

It could be an adverse situation in practice in
the game.
How are they going to respond?
Are they going to just run?
Are they going to say, you knowwhat, i can't do this, go, look
for a different opportunity.
Or they're going to say youknow what?
I wasn't as strong as I need tobe in this area, but you know
what?
I'm going to go back, i'm aretool.
I'm going to start working todevelop myself So the next time

(01:01:54):
I'm in this situation I couldperform at a higher level.
And you know that's somethingthat people look at.
You know these are the, the,the aspects, the mental aspects
that people that scouts andgeneral managers and personnel
executives consider Right.
Nobody says that It's not allabout how excellent you are on
the field, but how are youmentally?

(01:02:16):
You know, can you handle thedifficult situations, the
adversity?
People want to see that.

The word of the day that we're looking for here,
based off of our conversations,is consistency.
We're looking for consistencieswithin everything.
I understand using the transferportal once if something
happened, like you had mentioned, where the culture changed and

(01:02:44):
it just isn't a good fit for you.
where I don't agree is thispseudo abuse of using the
transfer portal, where you'rejumping from school to school to
school because you're justtrying to make it And that's it.
That is abusive use of thetransfer portal.

(01:03:07):
It's it's, it's, it's also.
It's also.
It's also going to be adeterrent when you have someone
like you who's a recruiter orgeneral manager or whomever,
looking at your pseudo resume.
You know, you know what I mean.
So, like the, the, the fact ofthe matter is this the transfer

(01:03:27):
portal is a great tool for whatwe've mentioned, but it isn't a
tool to be abused, and so we'regoing to see an evolution in the
transfer portal.
I'm 100% certain of we're goingto see an evolution in NIL.
We already brought up currentevents right now where the NCAA
wants some form of structurebased off of the NIL.

(01:03:48):
So we're already seeingpositive steps for evolution
here.
So I don't want to beat a deadhorse.
I think we brought up a lot ofgood points.
I do want to move forward.
We've already talked about NILin depth, so if you guys haven't
done so already, take a listento the first NIL episode.
Same with transfer portal.

(01:04:08):
We have a transfer portalepisode as well to to learn a
little bit more about that.
Where I want to move right nowand this is kind of closing
everything up and closing up theloosens that we have right now
is what does NIL look likebeyond the NCAA And I want to

(01:04:29):
look at what recruiting lookslike as well, going into
professional sports, which iswhere you flourish.
So NIL beyond the NCAA wealready kind of dabbled in a
little bit by talking about thatNike like comparison, so we
already kind of like touchedbase on it a little bit.
But really, nil past NCAA yourname, image and likeliness or

(01:04:55):
likeness does not change It,just it gives you a head start
for these deals that you signwith, like Nike, adidas,
whatever the case may be.
So I think we were on tosomething earlier when we were
saying that it's kind of you'reon a stage right now where
you're trying out And then whenyou get into professionals you

(01:05:16):
either got the gig or you didn't.
So NIL outside of NCAA is stillgoing to be an important tool
And I think it's going to beleveraged even more as the years
progress, more.
So I I can't say for certain forus right now we do not have
research of NIL beyond NCAA,because we would have to talk to

(01:05:40):
people that had NIL dealswithin the last two years that
are in professional sports Andthat sample size is pretty damn
small.
So we have not And so we can'tsit here and tell you, yes, we
have, and give you that relevantinformation.
We can speculate, like wealready have, and tell you that,
as NIL becomes bigger andbigger and it goes through and

(01:06:02):
seasons itself a little bit more, where we're five, 10 years
down the road, we are going tohave that data, we are going to
have that research and I mark mywords What we're going to see
is that NIL is going to be ahuge part of the NIL.
What we're going to see is thatthe NCAA stage is the tryout
for all these big brands likeMercedes, nike, adidas, under
Armour, puma, all this to tryout who their next face of that

(01:06:28):
sport is going to be for thatbrand at that time, and then the
deals are going to roll through.
That's what I think, duane.
You might have some differentopinion on it, i'm not certain,
but that that's my thought.

Yeah, i think you know I was always wondering if
NIL deals will carry over intoprofessional sports.
So if I have a NIL deal as acollege athlete and say I have a
Bank of America, somehow Bankof America, who is a big brand,
gives me an NIL.
I go into the NFL, does thatNIL end and I start a new

(01:07:10):
contract?
or say I go to a team that hasa sponsorship but, like Wells
Fargo, am I prohibited from keepmaintaining the NIL deal with
Bank of America though WellsFargo sponsors the organization
I'm going to?
is there a conflict of interestthere?
So that's one of the things Iwas wondering.

(01:07:32):
Because we haven't.
There's not enough history withthe NIL, so there's a lot of
precedent hasn't beenestablished because it's such a
novel concept.
But you know, i think what youare going to see is, like you
said, because of what pro sportsa lot of what they do with

(01:07:54):
athletes is driven on how theteam can make money off the
athlete.
Is he marketable, right?
All those local deals that theDallas Cowboys have.
There's certain players thatjust really fit with how they're
trying to market their product,you know, and that I think that

(01:08:15):
plays a role to an extent inhow these teams select players.
You know, can, hey, we likethis Tom Brady guy.
He can help us sell a lot oftickets, a lot of jerseys.
You know, maybe people, women,find him handsome, so maybe now
we can appeal to a whole newclient base.
I mean, we're laughing but I'mserious.

(01:08:36):
These are, these arediscussions that are had in the
back office.
You know, like, can we maximizehis value to benefit the
organization?
And so some of that will bediscerned through the college in
I L right, how is he with?
how is he went as a marketingagent of marketing?

(01:09:00):
you know, can you maximize hisvalue to bring, drive more
revenue into your organization?
And I'm sure we're ontosomething with that.
It's a test run, you know, ishe well spoken And as of?

right now my answer to all these questions
that we just brought up they'revalid and great questions My
answer is only time will tellstatistics and research.
So this is something where thisisn't going away.
We're going to talk about it inthe future, but, as of right
now, what there is to bediscussed, we have discussed, we

(01:09:40):
have brought everything up andwe have brought it to everyone
and we've brought it to lightwith our opinions as well, and
none of the opinions arenegative.
This is more of an education ofhow to leverage it
appropriately, and that's that.
So more to come.
More to come with in, i L forsure.
More to come with transferportal, obviously as news starts

(01:10:03):
to unfold, as we start to getinto the season a little bit, as
we start to see a little bitmore, even with this NCA
president trying to pass certainthings, and we're going to,
we're going to bring it to lightand we're obviously going to
educate on it.
So I mean, that's all we havefor NIL and transfer portal.
Is there anything else you wantto add, dwayne?

I think I think the NIL is here to stay.
Transfer portal I think youknow what.
I think there's going to bemore, and you can.
I'm looking into my crystalball right now.
So everything I'm telling youis really about to happen Maybe
a couple years, but it's goingto happen Right, and you'll see

(01:10:46):
more of a framework establishedaround NIL excuse me, around
transfer portal.
Then you will NIL, because thetransfer portal is has more of
an impact on the university.
As opposed to NIL, nil is kindof independent.
It's kind of like it's in anorbit that necessarily doesn't

(01:11:06):
impact the sports landscape butin I, but transfer portal does.
So I think for that reason,you'll see universities get sick
and tired of being pressured toenroll students or admit
students who are coming fromuniversities that don't
necessarily have the he doesn't,he or she doesn't have the
incoming credits to actually getaccepted, and they're being

(01:11:28):
pressured by, you know, thecoach or the athletic director
to let them in.
So I think you'll see, you'll,i think you'll see some real
changes to that, to that elementof the of our conversation, but
NIL will never change.

I think it's going to.

It's going to get better in a sense, right, but I
don't think it'll be anyradical changes.
But I do think because you andI both have we both have an MBA,
right, you've got the PhD.
But as a kid coming in, youknow from either junior college
or you know high school.
Do you think it makes sense forthem to study business, like

(01:12:05):
marketing, since the NILopportunities are there?
they're going to be makingmoney Because you think the kids
coming from high school they'venever really had to manage a
budget.
You know like they might have apart time job at the zoo.
Why?

would they have to study it, though, if they can
hire someone to do it for them,That's the thing right.
So you're in.
You're going to see that you'regoing to be in a world where,
if you don't study business, youhave someone that you vetted
out that is going to do it foryou so you can pursue something
else.
Or you're going to see aninflux in athletes studying

(01:12:39):
business and business marketing.

So I sometimes I just love playing devil's
advocate.

You always love playing devil's advocate?
not sometimes.

So so okay.
So how do you vet somethingthat you?
how can you vet someone whenyou're not necessarily equipped
to do the vetting?

So what you're asking me, just so, how can I?

hire.
How can I hire a good marketingor business agent?
Right, i don't know anythingabout it.

So just so we're clear what you're asking me is
the million dollar question thatnew people ask me when you hire
them for a company, right?
How do I know what questionsasked to get better If I don't
know?
And that that's a really goodquestion, right?
Really good.
devil's advocate question.
The response depends on whereyou're at in the process, right?
It depends on who you areindividually as an athlete where

(01:13:39):
you're at 18 and a half.
Yeah, yeah, Yeah but there are18 and a half year olds that
know their shit and 18 and ahalf year olds that act like
they're six.
Okay, so like what.
I'm.
What I'm trying to say here ismaybe it depends on where you
are in the NIL process and howserious you are at going
professional right, and at thatpoint maybe you have someone

(01:14:02):
that's in your corner thatalready knows.
Maybe your parents already know.
Maybe the vetting process iseasier that way.
If you are someone who has noclue, has no one in your corner,
then that's where you have toeducate yourself right.
That's where you have toupscale yourself on your own and
do the homework and research.
I mean, i'm not going to sithere and tell you that every

(01:14:24):
decision that I've made from 18and on has been perfect.
I've fallen on my face a fewtimes, but it's those moments
when you fall on your face thatyou learn to pick yourself back
up and make a different decisionright.
So I guess the answer to yourdevil's advocate question, which
is how do you know what youdon't know?

(01:14:46):
Well, it takes a certain amountof research and education and
doing your homework to be ableto figure out those questions to
ask.
It takes listening to a podcastlike this one, for example,
where you're getting a littlekey nuggets and it gives you
those a-ha light bulb momentswhere you're like, let me write

(01:15:09):
that down.
They have a point.
I want to do some more researchon that.
It's going to really reallywhat we're going to need to see
from these young kids is them totake the bull by the horns a
little bit better instead ofbeing needy and doing their own
research and homework and orenrolling into majors that give

(01:15:30):
them that knowledge.
And let's be realistic, dwayne,like I'm going to devil's
advocate, the devil right now.

Uh-oh, uh-oh.

And so here's the deal Your first two years in
college is shit for shit.
They aren't classes that teachyou this stuff.
You don't learn the like nutsand bolts that you need until
your junior and senior year,usually in an undergrad.
Okay, so the devil's advocatebeing the devil, now I'm telling

(01:16:02):
you right now, even if you getinto that major that you want to
get into, to have the knowledgeyou're already two years
removed while playing your sporton actually like being able to
make decisions.
So I read, i retract back towhat I said, which is it's going
to take a very special, verypatient, very inquisitive

(01:16:26):
individual to really learn howto ask the right questions and
make the right choices.
That is my response to yourdevil's advocate questions that
you always ask.

Yeah, well, i mean, i think it's a, it's a
legit question and you knowthere's some onus that has to go
on the individual to educatethemselves and understand.
It goes back to what we weresaying earlier Have a strong
knowledge of self and be honestwith yourself.
If there's areas that you knowyou don't, you're not as skilled

(01:17:00):
or proficient, figure it out.
Begin to do the homework, doingthe research to so you can.
So you can, you know, increaseyour abilities in those weekend,
weekend areas, because withthis we're moving into a
information age at a speed thatI don't think we've ever seen in

(01:17:20):
in in society, and there's noreason to not know something
because information iseverywhere.
It's never been as easy toaccess information.
So, without being said, peopleneed to familiarize themselves
with how to manage their, managetheir own brand and their NIL
opportunities, because they arethere.

(01:17:44):
And one of the things you know,one of the I didn't mention this
earlier, but you know of allthe NIL activities, you know
they still consider privateinstruction.
So, say, you were coaching kids, somebody had a little company,
they hired you on a NIL, butyou're giving private

(01:18:04):
instructions to like, let's say,a young athlete.
That's an NIL deal, right?
So you're like a 1099contractor in a sense.
So you need to understand allthis stuff And you know it's.
I mean, it's an it's anexciting time.
I wish they had NIL when wewere in college.
Man, i'm gonna be honest,because it opens up so many

(01:18:27):
doors for you, you know, andwell, they have an NIL for
adults.

You and I are working on that.

They do They do.

It's called.

Can I give them an agent's phone number?
Yeah, yeah, for sure, yeah,just send that over.

Send that over to my assistant and we'll get
that sent.

I'm gonna sue you for an email.
Yeah, good, good deal It'sgonna.

It's gonna sit there for a tiny bit, but we'll
figure it out.

Oh, for sure, It's all good.

No, but, like honestly, we're we're in a we're
in a very fast pace era.
We're in we're in a time that'sgoing to be exciting.
So more news to come on NIL,more news to come on transfer
portal.
We tried to be very thoroughwith this and I think we
succeeded.
So I I really I feelcomfortable with this and I feel

(01:19:20):
comfortable with whatevercomments had our way.
Remember, if you want to shoota comment to Dwayne, make sure
to hit up LinkedIncom forward.
Slash Dwayne Taylor.
Right, that's correct, you gotyep, yep.
So LinkedIncom forward slashDwayne Taylor for Dwayne's
handle.

(01:19:40):
You can shoot him a message.
Chopping with fire.
Everything is at chopping withfire.
That's C-H-O-P-P-I-N with fire,and that's on Facebook,
instagram, tiktok, snapchat,youtube.
We also have a website choppingwith firecom.
There are plenty of medians foryou all to ask the questions

(01:20:02):
you either know or don't know,and interact with us and let us
have some fun with this.
Dwayne, i just want to take amoment to, as always, brother, i
mean I'm never going to stopdoing this and never stop
praising you Like I'm so blessedthat you and I met years and
years ago and so blessed that,like you know, i have you in my

(01:20:23):
corner and that we can do thethings we love still and talk
about, yeah, these fun things.
So like, really, thank you foryour insight, for your knowledge
, for everything.
We have more fun things withyou coming up.
I know for our next episode Iwanted to do something fun about
diving into your world ofrecruiting.

(01:20:45):
If you guys didn't know already, dwayne is very well-versed in
the recruiting world And sothat'll be a fun episode that
you guys can look forward to inthe very near future.
That'll be fun.
Dwayne's not going anywhere.
He is a part of us, he is apart of this sports world and we

(01:21:06):
are going to talk more about itas it relates to business.
So, dwayne, again I thank youfor coming on.
I thank my sponsors.
They've been rolling on thescreen all podcast long but
Dermdude Inferno Performance,which is run by Dante, ex
football player, sierra NevadaPressure Washing and, of course

(01:21:29):
because I'm covered in themSpeakeasy Cat 2 Company.
So, all of my sponsors, i thankyou for allowing Dwayne and I
to bullshit and actually talk ona podcast and get relevant
information out.
Without you guys, i wouldprobably be poorer than I am
already and not have theequipment to be able to do this.
So thank you for that And again, dwayne, as always man, thank

(01:21:55):
you.

Well, thank you, and, as always, it's a pleasure,
it's my pleasure to join thepodcast and I'm always down and
I'm committed because I'm partof this too.
One team, one fight.
You know how it goes.

Yep, once you're on a team, that is your team.

So For sure.

Yep.
So thanks, brother, appreciateit.
We will be back with Dwayne inthe very near future, as I said,
and we are going to tacklehaving some fun with recruiting.
So more to come on that.
Make sure you comment, like andsubscribe, and thank you for
listening to Chopin with fire.
Thank you, thank you.

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SPECIAL EPISODE: Exploring the Future of College Sports and Athlete Success with Dwayne Taylor

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