SPECIAL EPISODE: NIL Deals Uncovered

Episode Transcript
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Dustin Steffey (00:00):
Welcome to this week's episode of chopping with
fire we have a special episodein store for you as we tackle
the ever complex NIL dealswithin NCAA sports so please
stick around as we dive in injust a moment let's chop it up

(00:47):
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and content creator DustinSteffey we are blessed to have

(01:08):
accolades that include a 2022nomination by the People's
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(01:31):
Without further ado, let's chopit up.

(01:55):
Welcome to a special episode ofchopping wood fire you are
joined with your host todayDustin Steffey and I have a
special guest co host with me,Dwayne Taylor, my friend, my
buddy, my grad school partner,fellow athlete Hey, bud, how are
you?

Dwayne Taylor (02:11):
I'm good. You know, it's always good to catch
up with you. Talk Shop as theysay. So I'm looking forward to
the conversations this eveningand see if we can enlighten all
the listeners out there.

I agree. I think this episode is important. So
this is going to be a built onepisode from the transfer portal
episode we're going to dive inand il deals which the waters
are going to kind of crosscontaminate a little bit because
there's a lot that play intoboth.

Yeah, well, I mean, they kind of go hand in
hand. You know, it's, but we'llget into that later.

Yeah, for sure.
I wish I had you on for thetransfer portal one. So I know

what happened.
What happened with that? Youknow, I thought I missed that
one.

I mean, life happens with you, dude. I mean,
congratulations. I know you haveyou have a kid on the way.
Right?

Yeah, we're hitting that right. Yeah, not
yet. But we're the plans are to,to have a little one. So I'll
have you know, have a little onerunning around here. You know,
yeah, look forward to that too.

Good. Because we'll have we'll have him or her
on the podcast, too. They'll be

for sure. For sure, they'll probably, they'll
probably be able to lead theconversation better than me.

Probably better than me to I don't even know why
I talk.

That's gonna be the plan, right?

So, diving in, we are going to talk about nisl
deals, and kind of everythingwith respect to NIHL. I consider
this a special episode becauseeverybody's like, Well, why are
you talking sports now insteadof entrepreneurship and self
development? Well, the answer issimple. I mean, all of this is a

(03:56):
business, in my opinion. What doyou think?

Oh, I think I think totally, in I mean,
college, I mean, athletics once,say My thing is, once you've
moved beyond high school sports,it's all business. You know,
you've got at the highestlevels, you know, the coaches
are making, you know, high six,figure seven figure eight figure
salaries, in some cases, Ibelieve in college. So, you
know, when you think about that,yeah, everything that, that

(04:22):
everything in that ecosystem isa business, you know, even the
NFL deals and some of the, theexperiences and running your own
operation, you know, beingresponsible for your brand, your
personal brand, because now withthe advent of the Internet, and
all these social mediaplatforms, everybody is you can
tie $1 $1 figure to people,right, so, you know, you need to

(04:45):
know how to maximize that. So,absolutely. This is the
entrepreneurial subject within,you know, the greater sports
enterprise. So, I mean, it'sreally awesome.

Which you and I both got to play sports in
college, but We understood thesports portion of it right? What
I didn't understand until later,was when I really got to just
dive into it with Jaden stad.
And kind of look at everybodythat's on staff and how many
staff members really make acollegiate football program

(05:18):
function, right? So you haveyour ad, you have recruiters,
you have your individualspecialty coaches, and I'm
talking just football, right?
I'm sure it's similar in all theother sports. And then you have
player personnel. You have youhave so many people, it is

(05:38):
absolutely a business. And thisis where it gets a little
frustrating, right. So as I wastalking about the transfer
portal a few weeks ago, one ofthe things that I had brought up
was we're adding extra layersonto these programs to be able
to manage, and it's just a lotof work. So now with Nio and

(05:59):
we'll dive into the nittygritty, but top line view within
IO, it's another layer becauseyou have to look at what are the
college rules? What are thestate rules? What are the NCAA
rules? What can I do? What can Ido? Now I have to manage my
players that are on and I helddeals like you know what I mean?

(06:20):
That doesn't, that doesn't eveninclude the sports and stuff
that can go on in IL.

Yeah, I mean, in IL is, is really taken on a life
of its own. And as youmentioned, I mean, I've read
that, you know, some of these,like, we're talking about the
power five, you know, the large,you know, institutions in
football speaking, right, we'renot talking about any other
sport right now. But, I mean,I've heard I've heard some of
them have, like, generalmanagers is what they're calling
this individual. And I guess heor she is, you know, somewhat

(06:48):
responsible for some of like,the financing that goes along
with the teams, you know, it's,it's really like, taking the
form of like an NFLorganization, because there's,
like, so many, everybody's sospecialized, like, the
delegation of labor is now like,you know, hey, you do all the
recruiting nothing else, youknow, you look at all the

(07:09):
underclassmen recruiting nothingelse, you look at ticket sales
and setting up the recruitmentactivities. So there's so many
different functions that arerequired, because of the way the
foot the sport has grown. Andjust and I think a lot of it's
driven by the media deals,right? Yep, that is given more
exposure. So now, the game deproduct needs to meet a certain

(07:31):
standard, you know, and so,yeah, it's it's very dynamic.
And it's a it's quite differentthan what it was 20 years ago,
let alone 30 years ago, like thesport has really just taken off.
And it's been beneficial for thestudent athletes. Right? So I
think I think, you know, we,we've only scratched the surface

(07:53):
with how they how football hasjust like, really, you know,
transformed into more of abusiness than anything, you
know, it's in there, it's gonnarequire a different set of
leadership to Right. Like,you're going to need that
athletic director who is who'sgot more of a, you know, a
financial and business approachto things and even like, like,

(08:16):
you probably have athleticdirector who has like a law
background, you know, maybe hasa JD, you know, because there's
now a lot more televisioncontracts, right. And with, you
know, NIHL and how we have thesecollectives that are part of
these institutions, you reallyneed someone who's, who's a true
steward, and really understandsthe business and the finance,

(08:37):
but can also read the contractsto make sure that things are
structured in which they shouldbe so you know, it's an exciting
time to be in college athletics,particularly football at a power
five. That's a good place to beright now.

Yeah, so let's dive into it because some people
may not know what NLS So, ni lwas passed by the NCAA July 1 of
2021. So it's still very new. Imean, we're talking it's only
had two full seasons, right?
Yeah. Being like in fruition,there's a lot of red tape and

(09:12):
there's a lot of Muddy Watersright. But ni l stands for the
name image and likeliness of thestudent athlete coach and or
whomever is partaking in the NFLdeals. This allows student
athletes to be able to monetizetheir image, their name, how

(09:33):
well liked they are, it reallyputs you on a stage that is
fitting for the 21st centuryright with social media, the
ease of social media and access,the ease of getting your name
out there to billions of people.

(09:53):
I mean, this is another layerthat adds you know, image to A
student athlete. Also, athletesnot only need to understand how
NFL works, but there's a lotmore to it. So with NFL just
diving into it, right? You havethe NCAA that past that you can

(10:18):
go after and il deals incollege, right? However, red
tape, red tape moment, you alsohave to be able to follow
whatever state rules you have.
So whatever state you're in, sofor playing in California, and
Nevada, whatever, each state hastheir own different set of rules
approaching an IRL. And on topof that, there's more red tape,

(10:40):
you also have to follow thecollege's rules with respect to
NIHL to and that is changingevery day. So you can't just
magically for example, like youand I, right, like Dustin
Steffey join Taylor. Yeah, welike them. We're gonna give them

(11:01):
a Mercedes Benz. We can't acceptthat. If we're not following the
rules, or whatever the case maybe. There might be rules from
the university that you'replaying that where it's like,
hey, no pump the brakes. You'renot allowed to accept monetary
donations. You're not allowed toaccept tangible gifts, whatever
the case may be, there arerules.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's, I think that's as
we exist within the Inyo era.
With each passing day, there'llbe more clarity, there'll be
more more structure around theNio. But that's, that's the
thing, right? Like, who evenconsidered that, you know, like,
man, somebody wants to, theywant me to, you know, represent
their product, and they're gonnagive me some of it for free, I

(11:49):
have to have to get approvalfrom the university for that,
that, you know, it kind ofmakes, it doesn't make a lot of
sense. I mean, it doesn't alignwith conventional wisdom, and a
lot of time, that's how weoperate. So I'm wondering, you
know, how many kids haveactually gotten into hot water
over accepting gifts in this nioera, that were, you know,
weren't aligned with theuniversity's policies?

You remember our era with Reggie Bush and USC? I
mean, we didn't have an IL thenwe had nothing like you're not
allowed to accept any gifts orany tangible anything whatsoever
in our era, right? The onlything that you're allowed to
have is a damn education, which,for me, that was critical now
for these kids that are goingthrough their families are

(12:36):
pushing in aisle and they'relike, yeah, we can monetize and
make money. Hell, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I think I think the belief is that
everybody often denial is makinglike, you know, six figure
salary, or six figure income offof denial, you know, there are
some guys who are making, youknow, significant sums of money,
or some some men and womenrather, not just guys, I was
about

to say, we are gonna get into that for sure.
But first let's, let's dive in alittle tiny bit more on
background just so that way itadds value to the conversation.
So on top of the rules andeverything, so you have the
government govern governingorganization, the NCAA, right,
they pass the rule, and theysay, you can do an IRL. However,

(13:19):
the NCAA rule does not overridestate conference, or college
slash university rules. There'seven conference rules, too. So
you got State Conference,university, you have three more
layers to do research before youstart accepting anything. So

So basically, that was the university's way to
say, You know what, this Nio iscrazy. They can come up with
just a rigid set of guidelinesand policies, which can
basically eliminate the abilityto make a cap the NIO deals that
their students receive intheory, in theory,

in theory, right, yeah, no, I have not done
research on universityscholarships versus NIHL. And
maybe you have some highlightsinto that. But I'd like to know,
if you're a athlete that is onscholarship. Is there a cap of
NFL deals that you can take orcan you take any?

That's a very good question. That's a very
good question. I mean, maybeit's just how much bandwidth
someone has. But I think, Ithink that goes into like, when
you start weighing the pros andthe cons of NIHL it's like,
Well, hey, at what point are youtrying to you're trying to
procure all these in IO deals,but, you know, what's it doing

(14:47):
to like, your preparation forthe sport preparation for
academics, you know, but youhave 15 denials, but you know,
how do you balance that out? So,you know, if there's a I don't
know if there's like a Setnumber maybe maybe the coaches
can impose their own arbitraryyou know, hey, I don't Dustin
you can't have more than fiveand I else

or Justin, you can't have more than five
Mercedes Benz

Yeah, exactly.
All the five min

five man. I mean, one is one's a blessing
but five your your captive FiveDo you?

Right. So I don't know, you know which? That's a
good question. That's one thatwe probably need to look into. I
need to look into more I cantell you that for sure.

Oh yeah. And then here's a cool thing that
I'm going to add a layer on highschool athletes. So I know a lot
of people have questions aboutthese high school athletes that
are projected to make a bunch onNIR and stuff. High School
equals no, is basically what I'mgoing to say. You are not
allowed to have nisl deals. Whenyou're a high school athlete.

(15:57):
There is one exception.
California, California passedthat you can as a high school
athlete have n i l deals.
California is the only statewhere a minor someone under 18
In high school competing in highschool can have in i l deals.

Interesting. Now, here's a question for you. Since
they're technically a minorright there, let's say the high
school kids under 18. Right. Sothey're, they're still a
teenager. A teenager can onlywork so many hours in high
school, right? They can onlywork like, let's say they worked
at In and Out Burger, you know,they can only work like up to

(16:43):
maybe 20 hours a week orsomething to that effect. Right.
So with the same rules apply tothe NIH, they'll say it's the
NIO where they had to do so manypromotions at the local car
dealership or at the localrestaurant chain. You know, what
would that be? Like? You know,wonder if those kinds of
guidelines exist?

It's a good question.

You know, because they're 1615 1617.

Yeah, in my in my research, I do not think that
they're barred to amount ofhours. It's NIHL. I could be
wrong. And again, don't takethis as word. I've done a lot of
research. That's one questionwhere it's a little blurry,
especially when it's dealingwith high school. The blanket
statement, however, and thiscame out in my research on

(17:34):
ncaa.org. This came out with ahigh school Commissioner for
sports. Said for Nia are wellNia is Nevada for all of it.
Right. CIF in California,California, CIF Nia is Nevada.
For all of them, though, theyall agreed that high school

(17:55):
athletes should not partake inIL, except for California.

I guess they figure it's more financial
opportunity here. Because theGolden State, what do you what
can you expect? Hey, I don'tknow. I mean, we are very, I'm a
California living in California.
So I know, we are a veryprogressive state, when it comes
to like, you know, how we seethings, you know, we're very

(18:23):
welcoming to new ideas, new waysof doing things. And so perhaps
this is one of the ways thatthey want to provide more
autonomy to the to theindividual and allow them to
make decisions on their lifethat best benefit them. So maybe
that's why it's just alignedwith the way we think in
California. Not so yeah, thosesentiments but you know,

I don't know if I necessarily agree. So this
goes into a conversation thatyou and I've had many times,
which is how you and I wereraised to play sports versus how
these kids are raised now. Sowe're in the world of the
following. Hashtag participationtrophies, hashtag, no

(19:07):
responsibilities, hashtag nogrit, hashtag things given to
you, or expected instantgratification because of social
media and everything. The listgoes on and on. Right. And so I
sit here as an old dude, whichI'm not old, but I'm not in the

(19:30):
generation that is playing now.
Right. Right. And I'm looking atit. And I think that we're
developing people that are notgoing to be as gritty that are
not going to be as like, I don'tknow, committed in their sport.
They're more committed to theirimage than the actual great
institution of the sport.

Yeah, I mean, I was I'm from the school of
thought that in sport If you'replaying well, and you're doing
things in the sport, whichnobody else can, with your, with
your ability to perform at ahigh level, then things like
marketing sponsorshipsopportunities to make money will

(20:17):
will manifest because of how youperformed on the field. So there
is not a lot of effort needsthat needs to be put into trying
to enhance your brand. And thebrand will come through like,
elite play. So if people arelosing sight of being the best
they can as an athlete, becausethey're focusing on how to, you
know, build their brand will.
You can't have what you can haveone without the other, you can

(20:40):
be a really good athlete and nothave all the brand, the branding
and the marketing piecetogether. But you can't be a
superstar marketer and just belike a subpar athlete because
nobody nobody wants. Nobodywants to offer any compensation,
any remuneration to that person.
You know what I'm saying? So I'mlike you, I'm like, hey, look,
the thing that you get fromsports was like you say, grit,

(21:03):
perseverance. You know, teamwork, you know, you're supposed
to be selfless, you know, what Imean? It not self centered ego,
like an egoless. Leader, youknow, eager, egoless teammate?
And I don't know if, you know,are we still teaching? Are we
still looking to develop thosecore skills, values and

(21:27):
principles out of playing asport? Or are we just trying to
say, you know, what, how muchcan I make off it? You know,
y'all, if I'm balling, you know,what is the real what is? What
are we really looking at tryingto develop? And I think that's
the that's the, that's the areathat we're confronting right
now, just like you said, andit's just a different generation

(21:48):
that were that we'reexperiencing, that were that
we're we're seeing right now.
And I think the what we lookedfor 10 years ago, out of sport
is not what is sought sought fortoday.

These coaches like I was telling you in the
beginning, they have a very hardjob, because not only are they
managing teaching these corevalues, if the core values are
still being taught, which I liketo believe they are, but they're
also having to manage egos.
They're having to manage asocial media on the field. And
everything else in between.

(22:23):
Like, it's ridiculous here.
Let's, let's take a step back.
Right. So let's look at thegreats. Let's look at Peyton
Manning. Let's look at JohnElway. Let's look at even Patty
mahomes. Right. All of them havedeals with like Nike or whatever
they signed with, right? Theymay have gone after it on their

(22:46):
own. I'd like to think they'refrom our generation of thought
where they have someone doingthat for them. Whether it be a
PR specialist or, or an agent,or whatever the case may be.
We're teaching these, we'realmost taking, in my opinion,
from an industry. We're almostlike desecrating and almost

(23:11):
laying the rest the greatindustry of sports agents and
stuff, in my opinion and PRfirms, because people are doing
this on their own because wehave such readily available
social access.

Yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right. That's
a I guess that's the downside ofyou know, that's just the place
we're in now with sports, youknow, in the coaches, you know,
like, I'm just hoping thecoaches don't get apathetic to,
to what they're having to dealwith, with the athletes and, you

(23:47):
know, catering to you know, how,hey, I'm a five star athlete,
you know, how much is my niogonna be if I come to you, you
know, I hope it doesn't hopethose conversations between
coach and player and coach,don't cause the coach to
compromise his own values, youknow, and saying like, hey, you

(24:08):
know what, maybe beinguntruthful with the kid, you
know, like, hey, yeah, we comehere, you will get you will give
you whatever, will give you, youknow, a million dollar in IO,
knowing that that's not gonnahappen. Right, trying to get the
kid in, you know, because itsounds good at that time. Do you
know I think there's a lot thatgoes on but I don't I don't know

(24:29):
if it's a difficult time to be acoach right now is what I'm
getting that and I don't know,you know, I don't know if I want
to do that job as a coach today.
Because it's, it's hard youknow, because you're dealing
with so many different factorsthat are beyond that are outside
of coaching football. You're notcoaching linemen on how to take
the right reads, mate how tomake the right read steps or
linebackers, how to see thereceivers and running backs

(24:52):
developing the pass routes. Nowyou're worried about, you know,
getting this kid to come to yourschool because he wants the
biggest Yo, do you know? That'snot the reasons like he's like,
man? Are you coming here to getan education and play football
and really learn how to play tobe the best you can. But now you
got to add this other element.
And that's a, that's making ithard on the coaches. And I

(25:13):
wonder if that's, you know, Iwonder how they're handling
that, you know, because it'sdifficult man,

you brought up a key word that's important to you
and I bow to which is education,you are a student athlete. Let
me repeat that student athletestudies. First, I would like to
see the statistics of athletesin college that actually are

(25:41):
partaking in their studies anddoing well within IOL deals.
Because are they focused onbeing on social media? Are they
focused on their education? Arethey focused on their sport? I
already know when I played andwhen I was doing sports, and I
was in high school, college,whatever the case may be, it was
very difficult to keep up gradesand be consumed by my sport. You

(26:08):
add in il to that that's anotherlayer?

Yeah. Because this is not like, oh, because a
lot of it from you know, some ofthe research I've done and I'm
sure you've seen it as well. Thenio you know, doesn't come
without any work. You know, it'sum, particularly if it's like a
local, you know, in Iowa Do youknow, like, I was saying, you
might, you know, there's a localhoagie shop, you know, down from

(26:32):
the university, they want a timecommitment, you might have to
shoot so many commercials, youmight have to make so many
appearances, you know, onSundays, or when you can make it
work in your schedule. So it'sjust another distraction from
what you just said, school, andfootball. You know, so how do
you handle it?

And what was the number one thing our coaches
taught us both? It's universal,buddy. So I think you and I both
learned the same school thoughtmy coach taught me minimize
distractions. Minimizedistractions. Yeah, that has
forever stuck with me minimizedistractions, focus, focus,
focus. That's it, focus onwhat's in front of you

log in, as they used to say, log in. No kids,
you know, yes. And so, and we'renot in lieu, we're not saying
that the students can, you know,a lot, a lot of men and women
have more bandwidth and capacitythat you and I do put together
some of them, right, but we'rejust saying, it could be a

(27:36):
thing, you know, like, whatsacrifices are being made?
Because you can only do so manythings? Well, right. You can't
do and you can't be an expert inexcel in all areas. So if you're
gonna be the best footballplayer you can be, how are you
going to be in that classroom?
Is there going to be a variancein between how effective you are
in those areas that you add in,in IL and all those commitments?

(27:58):
Well, you know, is there enoughtime hours in the day, you know,
yeah, some tickets.

So before I recap where we're at right now,
or what we've discussed, becausethere's a lot that we have added
value to for this right now. Isthere anything you want to add?

I would like to say that I think ni l is a great
thing, right? I'm not sayingit's bad at all, because it
might sound like we're like, oh,we're done. We're done with it.
Oh, guys, were like, Oh, screwit, and I will make those kids
earn the you know, theyshouldn't work. Let them be poor
this and that. No, not at all.
If somebody wants to pay you,you know, for your, for your

(28:44):
name, image and likeness. Andthat could benefit you. And it's
not going to compromise likeyour main focus, which is to get
your education and be the beststudent you can and then also
play some sports. If you canstill add in the NIO that's
awesome and put a few dollars inyour pocket. I think that's,
that's an amazing opportunity,and can really give you a good
great start on your life. Youknow, once you've graduated from

(29:06):
college, that's what I'd like tosay. So I'm all for it, but it
just can't be abused. And Ithink whenever things are
abused, and have gone beyondtheir intended purposes, then
you have an issue. And I justhope we don't see that become
reality through the in the NIT lspace.

I guess if we're injecting opinions here, if I
put my opinion in on it, I tooagree with you. I am not saying
that. I don't think that this isa good idea. I would love for
our fellow student athletes toget what they deserve. And if
they're playing on a stage wherethese colleges are making money

(29:48):
off of them based off ticketsales and butts and seats and
other things, then why not sharea piece of the pie that I don't
disagree with. However, however,where I do do This agree is on
the key learnings that welearned in playing sports from
grade school all the way upthrough right? Learning how to

(30:09):
be disciplined. Learning how tomanage your time to be
successful, learning how to begreat at the one sport that
you're focused on learning howto overcome and persevere,
learning how to visualizelearning how to focus learning
all of those lessons. I don'twant to see these lessons go to

(30:33):
the wayside, right. And I feellike there's more focus on the
dollar bill, on instantgratification on social media on
all the bullshit in betweenright? And no focus on what
sports really predominantlyteaches, in my opinion, and I
have a little one, right, in myopinion, sports are meant to

(30:57):
teach discipline, to teachrespect, to teach how to be a
team player to teach you how tofocus it. There are many, many
lessons that Sports teaches. Andit doesn't matter what sport you
play. Yes, you and I talkedabout football because that's
us. But I'm talking track. I'mtalking basketball, I'm talking

(31:20):
fuck the PBR and rodeo. I'mtalking motocross golf, I don't
care what you play, you learnthe same fucking lessons.

Yeah, I mean, I think yeah, man, that's real.
You know, you think about allthe life skills that are learned
through sports, like how to winand lose gracefully. You
remember, after you play a game,what's the first thing coach
says, Hey, guys, round it up,you know, we're gonna go shake
the shake their hand, they beatus today, they played hard, they

(31:49):
were more effective than us, youknow, let's go congratulate
them, you go down the line, youshake hands, you might have just
got beat, you know, in a nailbiter on a last minute feel go,
Oh, got beat by 40. But you winshook their hands. And that was
winning, that was respectingyour opponent, right? You know,
in taking the loss gracefully.
But you could be on the otherside, where you just beat

(32:10):
somebody, you got to do the samething. You know, be courteous,
be respectful. And I thinkthat's something that we get
from sports. And now I don'teven know if there are, there
are times where you don't seethat behavior reflected in the
athletes. And you wonder if alot of it is because of not
necessarily in il deals, butsome of the social media in how

(32:31):
we've lost sight of why we playsports. You know, like, I think
that's you touched on somethingimportant, you know, and I hope
that doesn't go away. Because,you know, there's so many times
that just as a professional, I'dlean on some of the experiences

(32:51):
as an athlete, you know, justplanning preparing our work in
the next person. You know,that's all that was all
cultivated by playing sports.
Yeah. Yeah. How to be the best,the best version of yourself.
You know, that was, that's allfrom sports, man. There was
nowhere else. I learned that insport.

Absolutely. And some of the, I'm telling you
right now, aside from you, and Iright, because we're close. But
some of my greatest friends andrelationships to date today are
from rivalries that I've had inplaying sports, where they were
at another school, or whateverthe case may be. And we became
close. Because not only did welearn how to be team players, we

(33:36):
just grew to like each other,because not everybody on your
same team, you're going to befriends with and I made friends
outside of my team, to otherteams, because some of my
greatest rivalries are them. Imean, you look at the
professionals right now, even infootball, right. And when
they're shaking hands andcongratulate, and after the

(33:57):
game, and all that stuff, I see,like mahomes go and hug some of
his former teammates, or somepeople that like he is close to
and you can tell, yeah, he hadto play against them. But at the
end of the day, like, those arerelationships, and I'm not
convinced that in this day andage right now, we are

(34:18):
cultivating relationshipsanymore. I'm more convinced we
give a shit about image insocial media over relationships.

Oh, yeah. I agree with that. 100% you Yeah, I
mean, but hey, how, how manylikes can I get here how many
likes I get at the expense ofwhoever else? doesn't eat my
likes, you know? And yeah,that's just kind of the way it
is today. A lot of lot ofvanity, a lot of ego. And, you

(34:53):
know, that's just kind of, atleast that's how it's perceived.
You know, I don't know if that'snecessarily true, but you Think
about it in college sports. Itlike your roster in football
changes every year, every reallyevery semester, there's a new
way, there's a new crop ofplayers coming in, because you
got the mid year junior collegeguys will come in in December,

(35:16):
January. And then in June, youhave somebody transfers out, and
then you get that second wave ofjunior college guys come in,
then after December, you had abunch of guys graduated, you
know, who are no longer there.
So what I'm what I'm leading to,is that in sport, you learned
how to work with people, youknow, you learned how to, you
know, bring somebody new intothe into the organization or to
the team, and figure out, youknow, what they're good at. This

(35:40):
is the goal, right? This thegoal for the year, we want to
win the conference, go to a bowlgame, you know, and you guys
work together. And like yousaid, you didn't even know him
two weeks prior, you know, butyeah, you're gonna be in your
meeting room, you're gonna be inthere talking, you guys gonna go
to the training table together,eat probably have some classes
together, you might not likethem, but you got to work with

(36:01):
them, you know, and you realizeyou figure out how to do it.
And, you know, those are some ofthe great things about sports,
some of the character buildingactivities, or experiences. And
I just hope that, you know,coaches, reinforcing those
players, reinforcing those witheach other isn't lost, because
of everybody's desire to be toreally elevate their brand and

(36:23):
their platform, through throughsports, when you know, you're
missing the real big picture. SoI hope I hope we can make sure
we're not losing sight of thosethings.

One, like I said, a couple of weeks ago to
transfer portal, you know, thetransfer portal adds a layer.

Yeah. And that's a whole nother, that's a whole
nother conversation. Like,

it's a big conversation, right? It's

mean the transfer portal. But I do like that, I
think you were telling me, andthen I researched it, and you
were spot on. So now thetransfer portal, you got a one
time transfer. And then if youtransfer again, you could have
to sit out lose a year in unlessit's for a coaching, coaching

(37:12):
change or some type of hardship,you know, yeah.

So the transfer portal will give you one year,
you have one chance to transfer,which is and then if you keep
going, like of course you startlosing eligibility,

for sure. But I mean, but But I mean, the
transfer portal. It's a beast, Ithink, you know, I think it's
probably utilized most inbasketball based on the number
of students, right. I mean, Ijust saw an article the other
day, a guy entered college in2016. Right. And he's been to, I

(37:56):
want to say six schools, he'shad a couple medical research,
but he's missed a ton of he'stransferred to he's on his sixth
or seventh school right now. Andit's like, and he's 2526 years
old when the season starts.

See, that's what I'm talking about, though. Like
when you and I talk abouttransfer portal. It's like what
the fuck, dude? Like, deal withit. Deal with it.

Come on, man.
Like what are you doing? Youknow, like, it's like,

come on Cletus.
Let's go do you.

Like come on, man just know you want to play and
you know, but at some point,it's like, hey, look, I got it.
I gotta let this go. Oh,

man, they have all these excuses, right? I
didn't want to coach I didn'tlike the culture. I didn't like
this wasn't playing you know,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah. You know what thattells me? Not the cap. That's
what it tells me stop the cap.
Do

they think about it though? Think about if I'm on
the team, right? I've been onthe team for three years. And
somebody thinks they're gonnatransfer in and just supplant me
and take my spot. Come on, man.
That ain't that is not likethat. You know? This ain't this
isn't the NFL the NBA MLB wouldhave said oh, we got this high
profile free agent coming in.
He's taking your spot. No. It'slike who

the hell do you think you are? Like exactly like
how what are you Joe Montanadude like

Hello, man, who are you? And I'm just saying
that that's a really generalstatement I'm making I'm not
directing that at any oneplayer. Yeah, like, You got to
be realistic, you know?

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If you haven't done so already,please drop it into one of the
multiple locations and checkthem out. So let's, let's let's
rewind because there's more,right, I want to dive into some
of this and I'll like what itreally looks like. So let's

(40:28):
rewind right and recap. So, ni lstands for name, image and
likeliness All right, name imageunlikeliness. There you go,
that's an IL, it's an acronym.
And basically, you're allowed totake your name, your image, or
how well light you are, andmonetize it. It could be an

(40:51):
autograph, it could be cars, itcould be whatever the case may
be, right? But you're allowed totake this stuff and monetize it.
That's the bare basic of the NFLright there. We've already
defined that there are rules,lots of lots and lots and lots
of red tape. You have theblanket statement of the NCAA as
an organization, the NCAA says,yes, you can take in il deals.

(41:14):
However, it doesn't supersedethe university rules, the
conference rules and staterules. So you have three other
rules to research before you caneven start an IL. Okay. Lastly,
we did say that high schoolathletes are not, I repeat, are

(41:34):
not allowed to partake in n i ldeals with the exception of the
Golden State, California.

Hey, real quick, are they doing retroactive and
il deals?

Right? Can we cash out like I finished up

college many years ago, but I think I can get
it in I will because of how Iplayed and they hooked me

up with that. I was about to say I got my PhD
and I run a podcast and I'm verywell liked globally. Can I cash
out on some NFL deals?

Maybe there's a possibility there.

So now that we're caught up, let's move
forward. Right? I did someresearch. So there's a top 100
list. I took the top fivebecause this will paint a good
picture. So bear with me herefor a sec. So according to en
three, which is the one and onlysite that ranks all of these
current athletes right now.
Yeah. There are some statisticsI have for us. So I'll rattle

(42:38):
them out. And then let's talk onit. So brawny James, he plays
basketball, he's a commit toUSC. He's in high school right
now. On three projects that he'sworth $6.8 million. Wow. It is
all based off of his socialmedia likes, his name, his image

(43:01):
and how he plays. This is howall these stats are rolled up.
So they take this and on threeestimates, your net worth based
off of your social mediafollowing based off of how well
you play your sport, based offof your image, and a couple
other factors, right. So that'sRonnie James. Let's move on. I

(43:25):
have a top five list. And no,just so you guys know Showtime
son is not in the top five. SoMr. Sanders, your son's not in
top five right now. He's afreakin three star athlete. Not
even five star. So just throwingthat out there. So Livi Dune,
and if I mispronounced theselast names. I apologize in

(43:47):
advance. She is a junior rightnow at LSU do in track. She is
worth

she's the gymnasts, right? Yes. She's
worth

$3.4 million arc Manning. Freshman QB at Texas.
Thank you know that name right$2.8 million. Caleb Williams,
quarterback Jr. USC $2.6million. Right there. There's

(44:24):
two USC athletes in the topfive. Okay. I'm Travis Hunter
cornerback. He's a sophomore,Colorado University, Colorado
University. You and I will getinto this at the end is in the
media every day because of howmuch they're shaking up

(44:47):
athletics right now but just forshits and giggles $1.7 million.
Those five athletes right therewhen you combined the net worth?
We're talking we're talkingballpark Are $20 million right
there? And that's the top fiveout of the top 100. Wow. Go for

(45:10):
it. What are your thoughts?

Ma'am? So I'm gonna play devil's advocate
here.

All right, let's let's play the game.

I'm ready. Ronnie James is like, if he's not the
number one high schoolbasketball recruit, he's
probably in the top five, right?

Yeah, yeah. Yes, absolutely.

How much of his?
So how much of his nio value isdriven through his father? You
know, because he's broughtLeBron James as kid, you know
what I mean? I see, I can seethe young lady at LSU having a
having a massive in IL, becauseshe's probably a budding
Olympian. I wouldn't imagine.

(45:55):
You know, so I can see like, youknow, the endorsements come in,
you know, in the pipe for her.
But man, but, but Travis Hunter,though, I'm wondering like,
Well, I mean, Colorado, they paywhat they want, you know, but
I'm surprised he made the topfive.

And again, remember, these are valued. So
and I'll mark it right on threeis a company that values what
you're worth, right? So thereare three, three aspects on how
they value you, right? Yourperformance as an athlete is
one. Yeah, your influence soyour social media strain. And

(46:37):
then the third is your exposure.
So the market in the media, allthree of those, spit out a
number and give you what you'revalued. As an athlete for NFL
deals

in the markets determine our value, right? It's
a business concept. If themarket is saying we're valued at
this, then this is what weshould be compensated. I wonder
how much how closely those arealigned basically, is what I'm
getting at.

So do I. So do I?

I mean, if that's what Travis Hunter is valued at
more power to him, I guess

gratulations Travis, split it with us,
please.

So this is what I'm gonna say out of that list.
Right. So I think there'sintense pressure on Ronnie James
and Travis Hunter. CalebWilliams already showed us. He's
a baller. Oh, yeah. Oh god, he'sgonna say, oh, nobody's gonna
question his nio valuation,nothing. Turner has a lot to
prove. He's coming up going upto a new level. You know, I know

(47:35):
he was heard a lot at JacksonState. I think he flashed and
showed some ability. But hegonna have to show what he can
do on a week to week basis. Andyou know, now if what what is it
on three? I think that's whatit's that's one

on three correctly. Correct. I

believe everybody, Travis 100 plays
against this gonna be like, Oh,you're worth 1.7 million or
whatever. Okay, let's see, theyare gonna be testing that dude.
But that's good. Because if he'sa baller, like they say he is,
then he's gonna really flourishand shine. But I guess um, man.

I know, I just blindsided you right, like with
these valuations

are insane, dude.
I'm thinking like, and then archman. He's not even the starter
or? Well, I mean, at what pointdo they say whoopsie? That's a
conflict for the coach. So whatis Steve Sarkeesian gonna say?
When they're like, Hey, aren'tyou? Well, just because a guy is
valued at 2.8 million doesn'tmean he's getting 2.8 million

(48:36):
but

no, these are valuations right? This isn't
what they're truly getting.

Yeah. But I mean, the kid they have there now.
He's only what a sophomore thiscoming season? Yes. Oh, yeah. So
that's gonna get interestingdown there. That's gonna get
very interesting, bro. So

on the topic of Deion Sanders, right and
Colorado University, his son isranked eighth on the top 100
Right now, and has two dealssigned, one with Mercedes Benz
and one with Tom Brady's lineup,the Brady lineup. How much of
that and again, this bodes andyour question is influence of

(49:19):
Deion Sanders versus competencyof the Son

does. So let me ask you this. Does Caleb
Williams have a deal with Brady?
Nope. I mean, I think CalebWilliams is the best quarterback
in the country.

I would have to say I agree if I am a fantasy
person right now. draft him ondrafting him for sure.

And I'm just so I'm really thinking out loud.
This is like a brainstorm andmind mapping session. So I'm
just trying to I'm thinking verylogical. Okay, if I'm Mercedes
and I want to endorse a highschool, college player, and I
want the best one. I will go toCaleb Williams.

Absolutely.

For all things, if the situations were equal,
and there was no externalinfluences, and I want the best
player out there, then I'm gonnago with Caleb Williams. I'm not
knocking should door as itshould or Sanders. Yeah, Diaz.
But I would probably go withCaleb Williams if he wanted to

(50:22):
endorse my product, you know,and Brady the same way if he
they wanted to endorse myproduct, I would take him but I
would say Deion Sanders probablyhas some influence on those two
decisions on those decisions forBrady to shoot choose his son
along with Mercedes Benz, Iwould think so. I mean, it
because if I was Deion Sanders,if I was the father, I will be
pushing for my kid to get theendorsement too. But you know,

(50:47):
yeah, it's got to be I mean, ithas to be some some of his
influence to get those deals.

Welcome to the craziness of nio deals now. Now,
we've already defined how we'vealready defined why we've
already defined our reservationsagainst it versus what we agree
with. Now we're diving intovaluation of these athletes to
actually go after in il deals,right? So you get through all

(51:17):
the red tape and you can sign inil deals. Now look, you know
what I mean? And let's, let'slet's not take the institution's
out, right, so we look atColorado University, there have
been articles that have beenposted lately, for Colorado
University, where the greatinstitution is very much against
what Deion Sanders is trying todo. They're very much against

(51:41):
this Nia lbs, they're very muchagainst manipulation of the
transfer portal. Because at theend of the day, the institution
is not there to recruit the bestfootball players. They're there
to give the best education toeveryone that goes there. And
that's it. So at what point?
Does the institution interveneto protect the institution

(52:01):
versus all this athletic BS?

I think I think the institution is going to look
at a combination of things. Ithink the first thing that I
look at is we have all thesekids transferring in Howard,
what is their? Are they addingvalue to the academic? The
academic written? Are theyadding to the academics we have
at the university? Meaning? Arethey coming in signing up for
some of the STEM based programs?
Are they are they going to bestudents who can come in here,

(52:28):
do excellent work academically,and then down the line be
someone we can reach out to fordonations, because schools
operate that way? Right? They'regoing to use the graduates to
come back and donate oncethey're out there in the world
making money. They're notbanking on the kid going to the
NFL, they're saying, hey, getthe degree, earn a good living.
Remember the times you had hereat the university and donate

(52:49):
back? That's what so they'regonna look at that. And then
they're gonna say, is that is itcreating too much negative press
for us? And I think they'restill like, hey, it's a higher
education institution. Our firstpriority is academics,
athletics, athletics is just anactivity we have. So our student
body has, you know, they havesomething to do on the weekends,

(53:11):
it's good to have the sportsprograms and brings us a
different level of marketing andnotoriety. And we need that as
an institution, but our primaryfocus is education. You know,
we're Health and Sciencesinstitution, you know, there's
largely a stem University at UCboulder. So I think if if the
sports and nio gets larger thanthe university, then you know,

(53:36):
you might have an issue, youknow, you might have an issue.

See, and I have the utmost respect for coaches
and athletes and players, right,like, but I have even more
respect for the institutions aswell, too. So a good example of
this, and you've you've seen,you've seen what Jason's dad,
Coach Jay is doing. ColoradoState University, right? Yeah. I

(54:04):
mean, yes, he had a rough firstyear. But you know what, in that
rough first year, we got to seesome pretty good standout
players. And you've made evenmention of this, because you've
been a recruiter, you've seensome good players out of there,
for sure. They have the makingsto be a great football program.

A great, go young, got some good, good young
players around there. They had agreat

recruiting class this year, too. So what I'm
trying to say is, I think howCoach Jay, coaches, and what he
brings to the table adds valueto the university, which
therefore puts butts in seats,which therefore makes the
University money, whichtherefore the people and caliber
of players, he's recruiting,they're not just good athletics,

(54:47):
their student athletes, he'srecruiting both. And I know
Coach Jay personally, and I knowfor a fact, he doesn't let the
noise of the transfer portal andan IDL do yields are any of that
get in the way of what he'sreally trying to create, which
is a good stellar program withfine men that are learning and

(55:10):
bonding as a team to play thegreat sport of football and be
successful.

Absolutely. I mean, that's, that's how it
should be. You know, I thinkhe's trying to teach, trying to
take these young young men andturn them into, you know, grown
men, real men, you know. And Ithink, you know, I think all
coaches have that in theirhearts, you know, but it's how

(55:38):
much do they allow the studentsto deviate from that mission?
You know, how rigid are theygoing to be in making sure that
the guy stay on track? You know,I think that's, that's where it
kind of dies. They kind of getoff the golf course.

Well, and watch this. I'm not a Deion Sanders
hater. But here's the deal,dude. Is he doing the right
thing that some of these othercoaches that I have learned to
love are doing? I don't know,yet. We won't know. Until the
season starts. And the lightsturn on, right. But what I can
tell you is, is I think thatthere is a big difference from

(56:16):
going to play for D for DeionSanders, versus going to play
for coaches like J nor Val,Chris Hall, all these coaches
that we've seen in the past,right, there's a big difference,
because you have a coach that istrying to build a program,
turning boys into men versus acoach that's been in the NFL,

(56:36):
and maybe, potentially and I'mnot, I'm not, I'm speculating,
right, maybe potentially gettingthese athletes into the school
not only to have a good program,but to push them into the NFL.
Right. Like, I'm not saying thatcoach Norville, I'm not saying
that Chris, all I'm not sayingthat any of these other coaches
aren't trying to get theirplayers to the next level. But

(56:56):
what I am saying is there's aprimary focus first and that
primary focus is to do your 100%in your sport at that time now
and not look too far forward soyou can get the developing
development that you need to besuccessful to move on. And a
good example of this is we lookat, we look at coach Norvell,

(57:18):
when he coached at Nevada,right? He took a program that
was failing, in my opinion, andhe turned it around. Not only
did he turn it around, he hasthree NFL athletes that played
for Nevada in the NFL currently,right now might be four. Well,
three or four. Right? I mean,that's what it's about. Right

(57:40):
there.

Yeah, I mean, and I mean, to Deion Sanders was
like, my favorite player growingup, you know, I was, I'm a huge
fan, I still am a fan of theguy. I think he does think he
did an excellent job from froman outsider's perspective at
Jackson State. And he leveragedthat into a position with
Colorado. So I would imaginethat he's gonna go on there and

(58:03):
try to win ballgames. And at thesame time, you know, make sure
that kids stay on track, getdegrees, and this and that. And
I think all coaches want to sendkids to the league, to the NFL,
because I think that helps themget the next NFL caliber player.
But at the same time, I thinkthere still needs to be a very
narrow focus on academics, andmaking sure that the kids are

(58:24):
going in, they're studying indegree paths that are going to
allow them to establish a strongfoundation for their lives ahead
of them, you know, once they'vegraduated from the university.
So that means you know, studyand things that are going to
make them some money. So you gotto have a fallback plan, because
even if you go to NFL to say,you only stay two years, you're

(58:45):
gonna be working everyday likeme and you. So I just, you know,
I just hope that, you know, allcoaches and not just Colorado, I
hope they're all you know,pushing that on the kids, you
know, in a, in, I think they arefor the most part, but it's
gonna be interesting to see howthings go and see you this year.
Because there's going to be alot of people watching, you
know, for better or worse,people are going to be looking.
And I think, you know, now it'sgonna be a battle for who's

(59:08):
going to be the best in thestate. Is it gonna be Colorado
State, it's gonna be Colorado. Ithink that's a that's gonna be
the next. That's gonna be thenext topic that comes up, you
know, especially if ColoradoState starts off hot, you know,
which could very well happen.
So,

I'm so super biased, right? Because, like,
like, for me, I am rooting thatColorado State. She's routes
everyone. You know what I mean?
Yeah, and this is coming fromsomeone that's a Nevada alum. I
love Nevada. But I love familymore and Jason's like family to
me, him and his family have donemore for me than I can even
imagine. You know, so, honestly,like, I wish the best for both

(59:45):
programs. But I'm rooting on thesideline for Colorado State. So,
you know, there's one thing thatresonated with me in my 35 years
of life, one unquote. Andthat's, you're never promised
tomorrow. And so when you'retalking about having a backup

(01:00:06):
plan and all of this stuff, Imean, let's just play the
statistics game statistically,on a team of, I don't know,
we'll call it 60 People, ofthose 60 people, one or two,
maybe will make it to the nextlevel. Maybe the odds are
forever against you. So it is,it is super critical that these

(01:00:27):
young men and women, becausewe're not just talking about
football, either we're talkingabout all sports, take the
student apart, first of thestudent athlete path, and make
sure that they're gettingdegrees and things that they
want to do. Because, again,you're not promised tomorrow.
And you sure as hell are notpromised to move on into the

(01:00:49):
professional leagues as much aseverybody wants to. It doesn't
happen like that.

Dwayne Taylor (01:00:56):
It does not. It does not. And, you know, one
thing that happens in college islike, sometimes the kids are so
consumed with the sport, theycan't even really focus on what
they might want to do. I hatethis sounds crazy, but they can
be so consumed with the sport,they can't even focus on what
they might want to do when thesport is no longer there. Right?

(01:01:19):
That's, that's, that's real. Butperhaps, that could be a benefit
of the NIHL. Right? They lovethe sport, they love practice,
all that stuff. Not sure whatthey want to do, but they're
helping create their brandthrough NIHL. And during that
process, they realized like,Hey, I like the marketing aspect

(01:01:41):
of, you know, trying to build mywebsite and all that. That can
be I mean, I'm thinking about,you know, that could be like an
avenue to help for selfdevelopment for the student
athlete, you know, for them tolearn what they what they're
good at what they like, whatthey enjoy, you know, so, you
know, we're thinking about,like, you know, these kids and

(01:02:02):
their lives after after sport,maybe the NIO can help, you
know, facilitate, empower themin that area. So, you know, so I
guess I say all that to say it'sa new day in sports. And it
takes a it takes a coach, headcoach who's gonna really put a

(01:02:24):
system in place for the kids toreally like, thrive and be the
best person best human beingsthey can be. And that doesn't
just include what they do on thehardwood surface, whether it's
volleyball, basketball, or onthe gridiron, with football,
baseball, softball, whatever,it's got to go beyond that. And
you need a coach who's going tohelp support that and nurture
that. So. So yeah, so it's adifficult time to be a coach,

(01:02:47):
that seems like there's almostnew expectations for the coach
in my mind. You know, I don'tknow if that I don't know if
it's really transferred into thepeople who are holding those
offices. But that's what itseems like to me.

Dustin Steffey (01:02:59):
Welcome to the 21st century. That's all I have
to say, right?

Because there's so much clutter now, so much
noise, you know, like, how doessomebody crack through all of
that,

we will be right back after a quick break. Hello,
chop nation, I hope all of youare enjoying the guests and
content we share weekly. Now, Ineed a favor from all of you.
There's a ton that goes intomaking a successful podcast. And
most of this can't be donewithout your support. So please

(01:03:33):
head on over to your favoritesocial media platform. And
please follow us. This isimportant so we can communicate
important updates to all of you.
Also, we love hearing from allof you. So please drop us a
comment and let us know how weare doing. Lastly, if you
haven't left us a five starreview yet, please head on over
to your favorite platform thatyou listen to your podcasts on

(01:03:57):
and drop us a review. We reallydo appreciate all of you and the
continued support as we lookforward to dropping more fun and
relevant content. So to bringthis full circle, we're not here
to tell anyone that the NFL isterrible. That's not our goal.
Our goal is to give more shedshed more light on what NFL is

(01:04:21):
educate as many people aspossible. And if you're an
athlete that's listening rightnow, or business owner, or just
a normal job blue collar worker,white collar worker, whatever,
you know, like understanding howdifficult it is now, and how

(01:04:41):
much our kids, our family, ourfavorite athletes, whatever our
favorite coaches or institutionsare really navigating, like this
is important. So I just wanteverybody to know, Dwayne and i
Our goal for this episode is isto educate, to give some of our
opinion, to open some people'seyes, for the athletes that are

(01:05:04):
listening to help you make moreinformed decisions to maybe open
your eyes. If you're that personthat's so focused on NFL, maybe
focus on some of the softskills, so that way you're
learning some of the old schoolstuff that we learned, whatever
the case may be, you're gonnaget something out of this.
Because this isn't only to openyour eyes. This is to open your

(01:05:26):
mind. And this is to allow foryou all, I don't care who's
listening right now. It's toallow for you all, to do your
research to make the educateddecisions that you're smart. And
you know, you need to make andto create your own success. So
to recap, I do not hate NFLdeals. What I hate is if you're

(01:05:48):
only solely focused on that,because there are so many more
avenues that you have to lookat. So if I'm giving my honest
feedback back to you all, what Iwant you all to take from this
is go after what you deserve, goafter it, but do not. And I

(01:06:08):
repeat this do not skimp out onthe other lessons that you need
to learn. Do not screw your teamover. Do not walk all over
people, do the right things.
make the right decisions, dowhat's told of you by your
coaches, and make sure you'resupporting your team. And most

(01:06:31):
importantly, go after youreducation. I repeat, go after
your education. You are notpromised tomorrow. That's it.
Drop the mic.

Drop the mic, you need to drop it again. Because
that was that was absolutelyamazing. You know, I you know, I
was thinking about it. While youwere while you were given that
impassioned speech right there.
So look, if you were in collegeright now, right? Say you're,
you're at a power five. So youwere at a school where they had
a collective, everybody on theteam is, let's say getting, you

(01:07:05):
know, $4,000 a month through thecollective that's on top of your
scholarship check, right? Soyou're getting that $4,000 a
month, and you had like a couplenio deals. So tell me two
things. What would you major inin college? You're getting you
got the Nio and you get themoney from collective. And what
would you be doing with themoney that you're making?

Well, if I have the knowledge that I have right
now, this minute, right, so sameknowledge right now versus what
have you got too much knowledgeright now? Yeah. Okay. So
you're, you're scaling me backthen.

Yeah, we're gonna reduce you gotta reduce you a
little bit.

Okay, where am I at knowledge wise, am I that I'm
like,

young kid, your 19 year old freshman.

Okay. Okay. My main focus, would one being
majoring in something that isgoing to give me sustainability,
which that was my focus when Iwas 19. Anyway, I just, I just
couldn't, I couldn't comprehendthat we were going to have a
market crash at the time whenyou and I were in school,

(01:08:15):
because business was importantat my time. But today, if I were
to re major again, as a 19 yearold student, it would either
have to be in something itrelated because technology is
not going anywhere. And or insome form of cybersecurity type

(01:08:36):
stuff, to help make sure that Ican help others right. Yeah, I
probably no one stupid young mewould probably go back into
business again, because I justlove business. It's just just so
many good lessons, honestly. Butit would be like business IT
business cybersecurity, you knowwhat I mean? For sure. And then

(01:08:56):
as far as the money, I can't say19 year old me would invest
because you just took myknowledge away. I would say what
an 18 year old me would do iskind of like what some of these
kids are doing already. I needto fall on my ass to be able to
learn a lesson right? So I wouldprobably start spending it

(01:09:17):
probably as much as these kidsare right now pretty poorly
instead of investing until Ifell on my ass. And then at that
point, I would probably startfiguring out investment

Yeah, this thing would be to do to maybe just
save it just be you know, you'regonna probably buy a lot of
little clothes and you know,

yeah, yeah, I want to look I want to I want
the honeys to love me. You knowwhat, I

gotta be fresh.
You gotta be looking slick oncampus like yeah, so you know,
we're

up on my desk by my Mercedes Benz basketball.

So no more no team issue gear for you, huh?

You know what, though? I always loved the team
issued gear to be honest withyou. I

always did. Do you miss us?

I did too. In college, that's all I wore was
just like my team. That's it forsure. What would you do? Let's
flip it do your 19 year old you?
And yes, I'm taking all yourknowledge away too, because,

you know, I'd probably be like, and I probably
want to major in something. IfI've got like, a couple nio
deals, you know, I would thinkabout are probably like, Man,
how do I read these contracts?
How do I understand them? So Iprobably would have studied
something that was like pre law,just because I would have been
like, I got these contracts, Igot these people trying to give

(01:10:36):
me like, you know, at leastlocalize deals, maybe a national
deal, I'd be like, I need toreally understand this. So I
probably would have stuck inbusiness, or like something like
pre law where I'm gonna be likestudying like business law, some
type of contracts. So I'm justmore more equipped to handle
what comes along with that.

(01:10:59):
Because at 19 I mean, you know,who do you Who do you run to,
you know, while you're oncampus, is plenty of professors
who specialize in that kind ofstuff. So I think I would have
had the wherewithal to ask thatquestion. You know,

19, if I were smart, buddy, I would have run
to my parents to ask them foradvice. But I didn't do that.
Oh,

the parents too.
But they weren't. I mean, myparents were, you know, they
were in the Bay Area. I was inNew Mexico. So I was a little
ways away, but and then I guesswhat I would do with the money,
man, you know, right now, no,

you'd be spending that shit at night.
Don't lie.

I would have like, I would have had every
pair of Jordans coming out, Iwould have had my hands on. But
like, I would say right now. Andthis is a this is an adult
thinking. So it really isn'tfair. I will be saving that
money. So when I get out, I cango buy a house or a condo or you
know, whatever. That's what Iwould do.

Hey, you didn't give me that option to interject
my

Unknown (01:12:01):
rules changed? Yeah.

It's like, Yeah, we did change that on the fly.
So I'm gonna read change itagain, if I get to interject my
adult opinion. If I'm gettingthat amount of money. I'm
investing, investing, investing,not only for my future, but for
the future of my kids that I mayor may not have, right? And then
yes, I'm finding a house. I'mdoing all of that, because it's

(01:12:27):
getting harder and harder tobuy. So yeah, I'm doing all that
if I'm injecting my adultknowledge right now, but the 19
year old knowledge stance, soI'm taking that from you,
you're, you're getting Jordans,I'm buying clothes, so whatever.

So I wonder if the coaches ever get at the kids
like, Hey, man, you guys gettingthis money from the collective?
Why don't you do this? I wonderif they ever have that
conversation? No. And

I think the coaches that are really like in
tune with this, so and maybe I'mpropping coach Norvell up on too
much of a pedestal. But I thinkfor someone like him, he knows
how this stuff operates. So Iwould like to think that he does
have a hand in the developmentof some of his players and team
and the kids that he'sdeveloping to kind of help them

(01:13:13):
see the future and how to investon some of these. And that's if
he has NFL athletes, which Iwouldn't doubt I wouldn't doubt
it. He has some good players. Ihaven't talked to Jaden to be
able to see if there are any NFLdeals there. I am curious.

Yeah, it's probably some local stuff.

Yeah, especially with the boosters and stuff. But
if I know Coach Norvell wellenough, I know that he of
course, is trying to teach thesekids to do the right thing.

For sure, for sure. I had a question. So like,
Have you ever I wonder if thekids who are getting the student
athletes, regardless of thesport, who are getting who have
like NIHL deals or in its let'ssay it's actual cash, cash
compensation, or they are partof a collective where they get
in so much money a month? Didthey pay taxes on that?

I would have to guess and this is a guest
because I don't know theresearch on it. I would guess
the if we're going down thetransaction pathway, right? The
organization that's given thenisl deal is using it as
charitable donations. And soit's a write off for them.
However, the kids that arereceiving it, I would imagine

(01:14:27):
it's taxed at taxed at a gifttax. Now, I could be wrong.
Again, this is just mespeculating with my business
major and guessing, but that'smy thought.

Yeah, I have no idea.

Honestly, I don't want to know, I don't want
to know if people want to get ahold of you. Where should they
shout at you at like, what doyou think LinkedIn are? That's
Dwayne Taylor. Guys. If you guyswant to shout out Dwayne asked
Questions, kind of pick hisbrain, head on over to LinkedIn

(01:15:03):
and add him as a connection. Letthem know that you're from the
podcast and that, you know, whenyou want to chat it up with him,
he's easy to talk to. That leadsme to the next thing which is,
please, with this episodespecifically, because Dwayne and
I both want to hear from as manypeople as possible, honestly, we
want to hear everybody'sopinions. We want to kind of see

(01:15:25):
where everybody's heads at. Andwe want to grow together with
you all. Shoot us some comments,for chopping with fire. It's at
chopping wood fire on everysocial media platform with the
exception of Twitter, Twitter'sat chopping fire, you do have my
website, which has all of mypersonal contact information,
which is www dot chopping withfire that ch o p p i n with

(01:15:50):
feiyr.com. Please, please, ifthere's ever, ever, ever an
episode where we want you guysto be proactive and start
conversations and actually divein with us. This is the one
because it's fun. Because it'sdifferent. Because we want to
hear people's opinions. We wantto kind of see where this goes.

(01:16:11):
We want to hear from you on whatmore you want us both to talk
about. Because this isn't it forsports. There's so much more I
mean, we haven't dove into therecruiting side yet, which we
will with Dwayne because he'sgood at that. We haven't dove
into the business transactionside. We haven't dove into a lot
of things that has to do withsports from a business aspect.

(01:16:33):
And so we'd love to hear fromeverybody and just kind of see
like, pulse check wise. What doyou guys want to talk about?
What do you guys think of thisepisode? What is your guys's
opinion on NFL? Do you guys havean opinion on NFL? Did you know
it and I was before we talkedabout it. You guys live in under
a rock like what? What's goingon? Like we want to know what

(01:16:54):
you all think. And then beforewe go any further, I also want
to thank my sponsors as well towithout you all, I would not be
able to do what I like to dowhich is provide information,
educate people have cool peopleon like Dwayne with me, have all
the cool equipment that I haveto give you guys the best
possible episode that I can giveyou guys. So thank you to my

(01:17:18):
four sponsors. That's my bestfriend and Buddy, Dante Moke in
Phoenix, who owns infernalperformance X professional
athlete for the NFL. Dante, Ilove you. Thank you that Sierra
Nevada pressure washing, quarry.
Both Dwayne and I thank you foryour service. Being a retired
Marine, we love you. And we wishyou nothing but success in your

(01:17:40):
business, that speakeasy tattoocompany, because man, everybody
has a vise and mine is a needleand some tattoos. So Manny, I
love you. You're the bestartists ever. Your business is
top notch. And lastly, DERM.
Dude, Drew, you're a badass,that's all I have to say I can

(01:18:00):
not. I repeat, I cannot be ascool as you. But I hope one day
I get about 10% of yourcoolness. So all four of you
guys, thank you so very much.
Big thank you to Dwayne forcoming on taking time out of his
family day to have fun with me.
This was long overdue,especially with him. We haven't
heard from him in over a year.
And it's important that him andI connect. So Dwayne, like I

(01:18:23):
want to thank you becausehonestly, without you and kind
of the headaches I have and USbrainstorming, I'd probably I
don't know where I would beprobably in a ditch under a rock
somewhere. But yeah, thank you.
Look, I'd

be there to lift that rock up. Yeah, you know, so
exactly true.

Yeah. And then obviously, both Dwayne and I
think the people that listen,and the new people that are
going to be coming in to listen,we have a lot of good things
coming out of this podcaststarting this year. And already
it's changed significantly. AndDwayne can be the first value
because he's been on when it'snew, versus right now and it's
it's a polar differentatmosphere right now, because

(01:19:05):
we've evolved so much. So thankyou, to my listeners that
support me. We are again up forthe 2023 podcast People's Choice
Awards. So be on the lookout forvoting which starts July 1. We
are going after this year, guysbest business podcast. Once you
all putting your vote in. I loveyou all. I need your support.

(01:19:27):
This is where it's at. I want towin this thing. I'm competitive
as hell. A nomination is aparticipation trophy. It's time
to win.

Let's do it. Man.
It was great to be on today. Ithink this was a excellent
topic. A lot of it's a lot of itbecause you know, he was so new.
And nobody knows really what itis. They do but they don't and
it's constantly evolving. So forus to just get on today and just
talk through, you know, some ofthe good some of the bad. Some
of the things people areindifferent about. I thought
this was really not veryvaluable for all Young athletes

(01:19:59):
out there, and maybe it canmaybe our conversation today
could just get their wheelsturning, and get them to ask
questions and maybe figure outhow they can best maximize being
an app college athlete withinthe NIO era. And so they can get
something out of that today,that falls within what I just
described. I think this was awin win for everybody.

Absolutely, I think the next episode Dwayne
and I are going to do is we'regoing to revisit the transfer
portal, and tie it into the NFLDraft, as well. And any sort of
draft because that's a businesstransaction as well. So be on
the lookout for the next sportsepisode, which will probably be
on transfer, portal and draft.
And that'll probably be in thenext month or so, I do want

(01:20:42):
choppin with fire to at leastrelease one sports, business
transaction type episode, once amonth, just to kind of just keep
it fresh in everybody's mind.
Sports is something that a lotof people like. So let's keep
this train rolling.

Amen to that.

Anything else you want to add Dwayne?

No, I mean, you know, as always, it's a pleasure
to be on, I'm looking forward tothe next episode. So make sure
you send me that text, shoot methe email, call me FaceTime,
whatever, however, you got to doit, let's figure it out. And
let's make something happen.

And hopefully with this next episode, because
Dwayne, and I run deep withpeople that we know where to
have more talent on, so not onlyjust people that have played,
but we're gonna have coaches onwe're gonna have people in our
network on the add value. And soif you want to get good,
relevant information that willgive you enough to do more

(01:21:40):
education, you want to keeplistening to us. So with that
being said, make sure you hitthat follow like subscribe
button, drop us some comments,all of that, because, you know,
we don't know what to talk aboutwhat we do, but we don't know
what you guys want us to talkabout without you using your
words. Dwayne, thanks for comingon, brother. I appreciate you as

(01:22:03):
always, all the time.

As always, the pleasure was always my it's
always mine. And I wouldn't, Icouldn't think of a better way
to spend my Sunday afternoon.
So, you know, like I said, I'mlooking forward to the next one.
And let's, let's do it. BecauseI'm always ready. I'm always
down to talk. And, you know, I'mlooking forward to the transfer
portal episode. And in reallydiscussing like the convergence
of in Ireland transfer portal,and how they both have been,

(01:22:30):
they both really feed off ofeach other. So, so yeah, let's
do it. I'm looking forward toit.

Oh, we're gonna strap up our bootstraps, and
we're gonna do it. So don't youworry. All righty. All right,
guys. That's another episode ofchopping with fire. Again, make
sure to comment, like andsubscribe. We appreciate you all
and that is a wrap

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