Unraveling the Complexities of College Sports: From NCAA Scandals to Conference Shifts and NIL Earnings

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dustin Steffey (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of Chopin with
Fire.
We are back and refreshed fromour vacation.
Thank you for allowing us tohave a vacation.
I know, for those of you thatlisten weekly, we did not have
an episode last week, but we'regonna make up for it today, as
we have a packed guest sheetcoming up and we are gonna be

(00:22):
talking about special topics insports, specifically within the
NCAA, and rounding off ourtransfer portal NIL
conversations that we have hadin the past.
I'm excited to dive right in.
So let's chop it up.

(01:21):
Over 100,000 downloads andcounting support from four major
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Also, accolade that includesthe 2022 nomination for the
People's Podcast Choice Awardsthat are voted on by the people

(01:46):
you are listening to your numberone podcast that discusses
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current events, hosted bycreator, influencer and founder
Dustin Steffi.
You are tuned into choppingwith fire.

(02:10):
Let's chop it up.
Welcome to Chopin with Fire.
We have a special packedepisode for you today, adding on

(02:35):
to our monthly sports andbusiness topics.
On this episode, we actuallyhave a big cast list right now,
so we got Alex back on with us,alex.
We got Chase, our CPA, back onwith us, chase.
We got Dwayne on with us and asurprise guest who finally made

(03:00):
an appearance Jaden.

Jaden Norvell (03:02):
Chop nation.
What's up?

People have been missing.
You, jaden, so you got a lot tocatch up on.

Dude, we got to update on some special data,
Davey sir.

We're not going to update on how special today
is.
With that being said, we'regoing to just dive right into it
.
So today our topic is going todefinitely be within college
sports.
It's going to be rounding offNIL and transfer portals,
headlines, money, discussionsDefinitely definitely going to

(03:39):
be a fun episode withperceptions, opinions, some good
research as well.
All of our research has beentaken from the NCA website, from
ESPN, from a bunch of differentcredible sources for us to be
able to put together and try tolay the groundwork for this
episode.
With that being said, let'sdive in Headlines, quick hits

(04:03):
here.
First headline that I have foreveryone Northwestern buyers,
pat Fitzgerald.
There was an investigationstarted where there were
allegations of hazing Right.
To round this off, fitzgeraldmade a comment he said he had no

(04:24):
idea about this was going on.
So I'm going to just open thefloor up on this one first, to
whomever wants to just dive intoit.

Yes, I looked into it a little bit.
I was actually golfingyesterday and I was eating
dinner at the Cunch Club and oneof my friends who worked for
the NCA LA now she's in the NFLshe was telling me about this.
She's like, yeah, there washazing, and so I looked it up
and, according to the source,one former Northwestern football

(04:56):
player said the hazing methodwas centered around a practice
called running, in whichunderclassmen were restraining a
dark locker room and dry hunkedby upperclassmen wearing purge
masks.
The player said this was thetradition.
It was especially common duringtraining camp and around
Thanksgiving and Christmas,which the team deemed runsgiving
and runsmiss.
So that's definitely.

Dwayne Taylor (05:18):
Oh fun, Is that that's real.

Yeah, I'm getting a little bit of tension
right here, man that's in, ohyou read that again what it
brings me back to my firstKennedy days guys.
Yeah right, I was like what?

if we reading from here Sounds like a bad
movie script right.

She said the same thing.
She's told me that yesterdayand I just found that.
I just saw this article today.

Alex Fichera (05:46):
It made it sound like it's been not just a
one-time-off occurrence If I'mhearing that, right Like it's
got its own name for it, meaningit happened more than once,
right.

Players said this tradition was common around
Thanksgiving and Christmas.
They deemed it runsgiving andrunsmiss Runsgiving, and
runsmiss.

Chase Insogna (06:07):
How long did they ?

say this has been happening.
Like how long has this beenpart of the culture over there?

So it was during training camp, so it's got to be
a couple years at least.

Well, he's been with the Northwestern program
since he played.
Even so, back in, what Dwayne2005?

Yeah, I think he played college there in the 90s.
Okay 2005,.

2006 was the start of his coach instant.

Yeah, but I think he's been part of the program
for over 15 years for sure.

The part that gets me is this Are you ready?
His statement was he had noidea this was going on.
How the hell does a head coachwho builds culture on a team and
Jaden, you know this betterthan anyone because you're dad-
Well, you know, boys would beboys.

man, we all play ball and, you know, just run
around whipping each other andshit.
You know people do this dumbshit in the locker room, but it
sounds like this was like aplanned event, which is kind of
weird.
Yeah, yeah.

So were the guys clothed when they do this?
Like were they just in practicewhat my friend told me
yesterday was no, she said no.

The article said that they had underwear on, but
she told me no yesterday.

Yeah, that does sound like that.

So if you were like a freshman right and you
were going to be victim of thisrun runs given or runs missed
like were you forced into thisdark room?

Or, like I've been hearing, hazing.
Hazing has been like the wordthat they're using for firing
him, so like fraternity hazingtype shit.
I think it's just a locker roomand they probably just turn the
lights off and just jump them,I mean they guess that's a tough
one man.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's whereit goes.

That probably would have ran me out of the
program like instantly, yeah,yeah.

Let's take this from a logical standpoint though
.
So when we look at hazinghazing rules and laws and
protections, especially centeredaround fraternities and
organizations it's illegal.
It's illegal to haze, it's notgood.
It's not good press forNorthwestern.
I think, if I'm being honestand taking the logical approach

(08:29):
I mean investigation or not thiswas a good move for
Northwestern, because you don'twant that bad reputation on a
program, and so, if I'm beinglogical here, whether he knew it
or not, which I have lots ofreservations I'm not going to
say I'm going to say he did itbecause I was going to say you

(08:51):
pay attention to that shit.

I mean it doesn't ?

He's a good guy.

I don't think he did and it's unfortunate that.
But honestly I think theyhaven't been doing that good.
Maybe they're just trying topick a reason to get him out.
It's an easy way to let him go.

Oh man they're for that long.
I mean, it starts withleadership.
Anywhere you got to go at thetop and, whether they knew about
it or not, they've gotresponsibility towards it and
they're looking for a reason tomove on always.
So again, it's a business.
What's good for business?
What's good for people cominginto the college?
Would they make a decision?

Probably came to it.

Yeah, that's the best thing to do in this climate
.
You got to distance yourself.
I know people laugh at thatsort of thing like you'll get
cancer or something, but it willseep into your pocket.
I mean, it's no joke.
So you know it's a risky gameto play otherwise.
So I think that's all it is isrisk assessment and you just

(09:48):
make that call.

Yeah, I mean, I think you made a good point,
Like a lot of quite often, whenorganizations are looking to
make changes with likeleadership, especially someone
who's been there for a long time.
He's been bad maybe last yearor the year before, but he's had
some success there too.
For a school that doesn't havethese high expectations, I mean,
one way to do it is just to saywe need a culture change and

(10:13):
they've identified a major flawwithin the culture over there
right.
Nobody's going to dispute,moving on from Pat Fitzgerald
with those kind of allegations.
So there you go.

Yeah, they'll spin it into like this is us doing
something positive right now?
And we identified this and didit forward, exactly Right I?

mean we've all played football, man.
I mean that's not something youshould do, but I don't think
it's.
They're trying to get them outof there.
They're trying to get them outof there, yeah.

I mean, I mean I feel bad for whoever was exposed
or victim of this hazing, andI'm not trying to minimize it.
I'm not trying to minimize theimpact it might have had on a
player, but it's inappropriate.
I mean, I think there's otherways to integrate and make new
players assimilate to theprogram and I think it doesn't
have to be as extreme as whatwas described in what you read.

(11:08):
Jayden, that's just my opinion.

I agree, you're right.

I don't know how that brings a team closer
together.
That's just my opinion.

Yeah, there's a lot of people in that, like, who
are the captains?
Right, you know about the sortof thing that step up.
I mean there's a lot of blameto pass around in this sort of
deal.
At the end of the day, it'sinappropriate and your culture
shouldn't be built on thingslike that.
You begin with, you know that'sanywhere.

Yeah, absolutely .
Let's soften the topics up alittle bit by moving on to the
next headline, which isdiscussion on SDSU.
So, as you guys are aware, sdsuhad a really good run recently

(11:55):
in the NCAA tournament, makingit to the final game.
Right, they lost, unfortunatelyWas definitely pulling for them
to win it all.
And now they're looking atmoving from the Mountain West
Conference to the Pac-12.
And we know that there's beenmovement in the Pac-12 already

(12:16):
of other schools going out ofthat conference.
So this is kind of a reallygood move, taking the money out
for SDSU to go in and be likehey, we want to go into the
Pac-12 and be in a strongerconference.
However, as we are a businesspodcast, bringing in the
business and money side to it,there are implications, right,

(12:41):
and I kind of wanted to discussthat.
So one being $3 million buyoutright to hop ship from Mountain
West to the Pac-12.
So a couple of questions, right.
First and foremost, good movefor SDSU, yay, nay, right.
The next question would be isthis something that's going to

(13:05):
hinder the rest of the teams ina not so strong Mountain West
program?
And the third thing to thinkabout as we're discussing this
is all the business sides, right.
So TV deals, money et cetera.
So it's open for this one.

(13:26):
Let's talk about it.

I was talking about the money I mean $3
million is like a drop in thebucket for this deal, because
you look at TV rights, you lookat increased attention from the
media, Just for SDSU alone likethat's worth $3 million to them
to get more attention.
So from a business perspective,this is a smart move for the

(13:50):
college.

I agree and I think that I know basketball has
been really successful, ormen's basketball has been
extremely successful.
You know they've got sometradition with that program.
I think probably the biggestname that's come out of there is
Kawai Leonard.
You know he's been pretty goodplayer in the NBA.
So I think from basketball theycan compete for sure at the

(14:15):
next level, and I would imaginefootball, which is the next, you
know, which is probably thelargest sport, is going to do
well too.
You know, once they get into abetter conference, have more
resources.
You know, flowing through theprogram to hire better coaches,
provide better meals, bettertraining opportunities, I think
it's a win.
I think it's a win for them,and they built a new stadium

(14:38):
that they're going to need tosee a nice ROI on you know,
through ticket sales concessions, maybe even doing more things
about, you know, renting thatspace out for other large events
.
Maybe they'll bring more bowlgames to the area or different
championship events to that, tothat space.
So I think San Diego State isthe winner in this.

Do other schools follow them?
That's the question.

If they can.
Where do you mean?
This is kind of the goal, isn'tit?
The strategy from the largerperspective is.
Yeah, exactly, again, think,think of if you were running the
university as a business.
You are looking for the bestmarket for that business to
thrive in.
I mean, so the way theseconferences are built are, you
know, again, there's kind ofanother layer to this industry

(15:29):
and you're looking to grow to apoint of scaling a business and
now you've got to get into thatnext market to get that next
multiple on it.
So you know, you're looking forthose that are doing it and,
yeah, it'll affect the onesbehind you absolutely.
But if they're built right andthey can create that pipeline,
so they bring in other schoolsbefore you know that are maybe
growing up through the regsthere and now they have enough

(15:51):
money to enter and be a catchfor that industry.
But I mean, yeah, this is thegoal, so that's, it's an
accomplishment.
But now they're swimming inthere with the you know, the big
players.
So you got to produce.
I mean, it's a whole bunch ofnew obligations and new
pressures put on the faculty,the players, the department, the
athletic programs, things likethat.

(16:11):
You know they got to step up.

I think I think one thing we didn't mention I
haven't seen, like all theathletic offerings at San Diego
State.
But I know going into the packpack 12 or I don't know if it's
going to be packed in again, butyou know, some of those schools
compete in every sport you canimagine.
Like you take a Stanford, forexample, stanford's got an
equestrian, they've got diving,they've got swimming, they've
got strong soccer teams.

(16:34):
So I don't think San DiegoState has all of those.
But now you move into thatconference you've added
additional athletic offeringsfor the university, which is
going to have you hiring morecoaches, more support staff, you
know, more ticket sales reps.
So I think there's a trickledown of opportunities for the
program to grow and then justgiving more student athletes an

(16:55):
opportunity to play on a higherlevel and come into the
university, maybe on scholarship, and create educational
opportunities.
So I think you know there's alot of good that can come out of
it for San Diego State, youknow.
So I'm happy for the movethey're trying to make, you know
.
I think it makes sense.

We saw this happen when you played.
If you remember right, nevadaand New Mexico State were part
of the Western AthleticConference and the Western
Athletic Conference was startingto die out a little bit, and so
we saw Nevada, we saw San Jose,we saw a bunch of schools hop

(17:39):
ship from the Western athleticconference into the Mountain
West because it was moreadvantageous.
My concern with SDSU leavingthe Mountain West is we have all
these other schools within theMountain West too.
So, like Jaden and his dad atCSU, we have Nevada, we have

(18:00):
UNLV which, by the way, unlv isa separate story right Because
they are playing in the RaiderStadium and they have good
resources and stuff too, buttheir program just isn't there
yet, which hinders them frombeing able to hop ship, in a
sense, to the Pac-12.

They want to hire the Norvelles.

Jaden's right notes.
Right now he's like, hmm,pac-12, maybe.
But what I'm trying to say islike, yes, we all brought up
good points of the positives ofwhy SDSU specifically should hop
, ship and money and all of thatright, but what we didn't bring

(18:46):
up were the negativeimplications on the Mountain
West for SDSU hopping out andwhat that does for the teams
that are within the MountainWest.
And does that dilute theMountain West conference and
make it a lesser conference?
Because we've been trying tobuild a stronger conference,
like you know?
I don't know.

They should take it that way.

I think the Mountain West needs to do all
they can to hold on to San DiegoState because with these
universities there's like arevenue sharing within the
conference, right?
So if San Diego State, you know, goes to the final, what did
they go to?
The NCAA finals it was a hugeinflow of cash that's
distributed amongst all themember schools.

(19:29):
And then I know the footballteam has been going to bowls.
There's still a payout for allthose schools.
If they leave, you know,hopefully Colorado State can
take over as the big dog in theconference.
But that could get, that couldget bad.
Because I know, dustin, likeyou mentioned that New Mexico
State, when we we didn't go tothe WAC, I mean we didn't go to

(19:49):
the Mountain West, we went backto the Sunbelt Conference and
then, you know, there was justkind of like turmoil from there.
We ended up staying in theSunbelt for a couple of years.
Then we went independent.
You know, for a small school, asmaller school at New Mexico
State, we were playing, I mean,one year they played out of a 12
game slate, I think they playedlike eight money games, nine
money games.
You know the games wherethey're playing, you know the

(20:11):
Texas, alabama's, and that justwas really difficult for the
football program to sustain.
So just recently, I mean we allour sports, just moved to
conference USA, which is whichis a good, you know, which is a
strong conference.
But you know it was 10 to 15years of just, you know, just,
we're like nomads.

(20:31):
You know, one in one conferencefor three years, then
independent and then back toanother conference.
So it was it was a mess man.
So I would hate to see any otheruniversity, particularly some
of the ones that are in theMountain West that aren't as
strong.
I would hate to see that happento them.

Another thing to think about, which we'll talk
about later, is implications oftransfer portal to right, with
the transfer portal allowingathletes one free pass in a
sense.
Are we going to lose some ofour talent in the Mountain West
as the conference dilutes, if,if SDSU moves to the Pac-12?

(21:08):
These are all business thingsthat we need to talk about.

I would say I would say no, and we've all got
to say I've gone and have seenus say seven years, eight years,
been planning going back andforth on the sidelines at the
old stadium and I mean you talkabout a beautiful campus.
Nobody doesn't like going toSan Diego State to play.
They're going to be good andI'm so happy for them.

(21:33):
They're going to have a greatprogram and that's great.
But it really opens the doorfor us.
Man, it gets.
I'm going to use the AmericanConference to lane.
Just beat USC.
All right, they had, they hadto go.
They were 10 and one.
I think Ten and two had to goto East Carolina, which is a
great team, since now he's agreat team, top 10 team last 10
years.
Ucf is always up there andNavy's no joke, and the same for

(21:54):
our conference and I think,with them leaving first football
it gives the opportunity tookay, well, now I'm looking at
schedule.
Okay, I got to play boy state.
I got to play for New York,which for a big time player, is
great.
More eyes on me, more money, myNile deal.
So I think it opens up for alot of these teams in New Mexico
State, you know, and a lot ofthe teams that lose players say

(22:16):
the state.
It's going to be good now,because now you have to say a
state.
Now they got to compete withDion, they got to compete with,
they got USC, you know.
So their guys are now all thoseplayers that were Mountain West
players that maybe you knowthird, third, third, fourth
string in the pack 12.
Now there gets diversifiedbetween all the other teams.

(22:37):
So I think it's going to makeit better and more competitive
and you'll have better recordscoming out of Mountain West more
bowl games, more like the wayand said, more money for the
school.

Those schools should take advantage of this.
I mean, the conference shouldfocus on the conference.
You just lost one of your, oneof your schools to a different
conference.
That hurts and you've got tolook at that.
And you've got to.
You got to look at not losingother schools that are coming up
through there, making sure thatyou're strengthening that
conference as best as you canthink of that.
I mean, running the conferenceis like a business you want the

(23:10):
best players in there and at thebed value.
But if I was a school seeingschools leave the conference,
I'd make my deal now with theconference like you need to keep
us in this thing or we're goingto start looking.
So now time for schools.
You know it's weird, isn't it?

It's almost like the G-league.
It's almost like the G-leaguewhen it comes to the
non-powerfives.
How this?
How mean we look at Houstonright and going to the BIC-12
and a bunch of I mean, tulane'sgot to get.
Tulane has a bunch of offers.
Now I know they got a bunch ofoffers.

The conference is a great point because you know
the BIC-12, I felt like theywere arrogant in their ways and
you know their biggest membersare now gone.
Right and they're having torebuild.
But you know they were likewell, we're the BIC-12, you know
we don't have to do anythingdifferent.
But as soon as A&M jump ship,you know they should have been
on top of all their members.
And how can we improve ourconference?

(24:04):
Make that a, you know, asticking point of you know that
we need to change our ways,maybe a little bit, or do
something different.

I can speak on that a little bit.
I've been with Pops at Oklahoma.
It's the big 12, so theColorado left and A&M left and
the big, the big 12 rivals SEC,everybody.
Big 12 versus SEC and it's.
I think it's been tough, it'sgoing to be tough for everybody.
I agree with you because Idon't know who's going to be the

(24:36):
I mean Oklahoma's one, I think.
12 national championships,right, you know, we're looking
down the line now Kansas State,tex-tex, baylor, tcu, houston.
You know who's the who's thewarhorse, who do you, who do you
put your hat on and you're likeokay, this is our, this is our

(24:58):
team that's going to play atVano, georgia, oklahoma, texas,
and beat them consistently.
I don't know.
I don't know what I would thebig 12 is.
I would say the Mountain Westis in a better spot than the big
12 is Right now.
It's where it's teams-wise andcause.
I mean, if I think to answerall the questions, I think

(25:19):
they're doing great setting upand maintaining their programs
because even at Nevada dust andwe I mean we had sweet 16, we'd
go two years in a row, threeyears in a row for basketball
and you know football, uh doingwell.
Boyd State does well.
Nevada, you know, did wellunder us and I think the level
of, especially in basketball,the level of competitiveness in

(25:41):
Mountain West has gone really,has gone really high with the
transfer portal.
The transfer portal has beenhuge for that, huge for that.

I think we also have to look at the power
conferences, right?
So when we look at the SEC, theACC and some of these big
conferences, have we seen anybig, big moves out of them in
the last decade?

Dwayne, uh, not, not really from a, from a, no,
from movement of teams in andout the conference.

Right.

No, why do you?

think that is.

You know, I was just I mean, I've been listening
to everyone.
I was thinking about, like, why, what's been like the driving
force behind, like whyeverybody's been moving
conferences.
I guess it's the TV deals, um,but you know, um, my thing is
like, and I'll just focus on,like the Pac-12, with, you know,
usc and UCLA going to a big 10.
Like there's a significantamount of money that's going

(26:38):
into, like SC and UCLA, but like, at what cost is it what?
How much actually is made whenyou factor in all the travel
costs you know flying across thecountry?
And then, like, what is?
You know what is the realreason?
Are the schools saying, youknow, we're not going to provide
any more funding to athleticsand their auxiliaries and they
got to be a hundred percentself-supporting?

(27:00):
Like I'm wondering, like, arethese conversations being had?
Because I don't know why?
You know you would want to putyour student athletes who were
there to study as such adisadvantaged academic by
traveling them.
You know, 3000 miles for games.

So maybe I said one, they want to.
They want to play those guys.
Though you know for sure theathlete part of that, the
backside athlete part, wants togo play a hot state, but it's I.
On.
Another part I want to add isthe community, the cultural part
.
Usc always plays UCLA everyyear.
They can expect that, so that'swhy they went together, georgia

(27:36):
Tech always going to playClemson, and so, like the
schools are more loyal to eachother than the conference.
This is like Penn State alwaysplays Ohio State and they're in
the big 10.

But do you think that can go away if like say
like it will never go away?

It never goes away Like Oklahoma and Texas
left together, because theyalways play each other.

So is there.
But what about?
Like Oklahoma?
I guess that's Oklahoma.
Texas is the red rival, redriver.

Yeah yeah, river rivalry, oh river.

Since like 1910.

Yeah, these guys go back to like the 1900s, like
families, like the new.
What a new Tennessee orTennessee or something like that
.

The highways that we can shut down?
Yeah, it's crazy.

Yeah, that's, that's amazing.
But I, you know, but that's mything I just wonder, like for
football, yes, not a big thing,you know, but what about the
school, the sports that playmultiple games, soccer, for
example?

Well, going to your point I mean to your point
it's it's always been that casesYou've got a lot of these
sports with underneath theathletic department that don't
bring in the huge dollars rightEverybody knows that you got
tons of, whether it's lacrosse,swimming, you know, you got a
lot of these sports going on,but they're not the ones driving
the budget of the program,right?
So now here's a classic example.

(28:50):
You said, yeah, well.
So when you look at what's oneof the downsides of this, well
now, those sports, you know, youknow again, they don't care if
it's over here and they got totravel, they're making money on
it.
But it's these other sportsthat are suffering there.
Like you were saying, they gotto travel and do all this and
he's like it's no different forthem, it's just more mileage
tacked on now.

So yeah, for sure , I mean like, yeah, I just
think, like you know, if you'reflying up and you're flying
through Texas like a Baylor, ifBaylor is going to, you know
they're playing half their gamesor third of their games in
Texas.
They're playing Texas tech,they're playing the Long Horns,
they might play UT San Antoniofor something.
You know they're not travelingthat far if they're going to
even Oklahoma as a short flight.

(29:31):
But man, you know, I would sayfor this first, couple years you
know now they're going to beflying, you know, over into
Florida.
You know he's just longer.
It's just longer travel.
I don't know, I just think it's.
I just think there's some,there's a downside to it.
You know, we won't really seesome of that until we're in it,

(29:51):
you know.

I would agree.
I think the financial part faroutweighs it.
This first couple years, though, this is going to be so yeah,
so I'm in the USC Ohio Stategame, but I feel bad.
I do feel bad for athletes,because that's not a fun flight.
I'm counting.
Playing a night game flyingback trying to do your homework,
oh man.
Yeah, yeah, a little per diemand a nice meal doesn't account

(30:14):
for all that With the timedifference too, with the time
difference too, with the timedifference too, with the time
difference too, all right.

You gave me a few bucks to go out.

But come on, this is a lot.
I think USC goes and playsRutgers man on a Saturday, a 12
o'clock game.
They have to leave, likeThursday night.

Well, I played with Rutgers and we had to
travel all the way out there Notreally.
A couple of bucks in the mealis like all right.

So as a coach, did you?
Did you, dwayne?
Would you think you wouldadjust the sleep schedule, for
the schedule for the team,accordingly to the time zone
you're in, especially for thosetwo West Coast teams?
They got to be waking up.

You want to try to, but, man, I don't know.
Man, these cell phones andTikTok and all these other
social platforms, man, thesekids aren't.

They're not sleeping, you know it's going to
be interesting to watch thesegames because I think the how
many hours is the West Coastbehind the East on like Columbus
to three.
So that's a disadvantage forOhio State and they got to go
out there.

Either way it's going to.
You got to acclimate.

Yeah, you got a game plan for that completely.
You got a whole budget a wholeweek out.

Yeah, we didn't have to UCLA, had to come to us.
So you know we chose, we choselike a night game.
You know we wanted to make surewe leaned into that and you got
to.
It's a little strategy there, alittle strategy, that's all.
It's just an edge up in thegame.
You had to find those ways.

This is some good discussion, guys.
I think more to come as we seewhat SDSU does.
We brought up some good, validpoints.
I guess more to come right,definitely.
I know everything that webrought up they're thinking
about, everybody's thinkingabout, right, and so, as we
start seeing this, we're notgoing to see this this year, I

(32:01):
don't think, but we'll probablysee it for 2024, 2025, maybe so
more to come.
On that, let's move.

I'm going to end on that one.
From a university perspective,I mean, the travel maybe is an
issue, but I think they're ready.
They get more eyeballs whenthey're traveling in markets
that they normally wouldn't geteyeballs in.
So you know somebody likeBaylor traveling to Florida.
I mean, yeah, you might knowBaylor, you might not, but if
they're going there playing,you're going to get more
eyeballs on the university.

(32:32):
It's going to attract moreattention to them.
So, from a business perspective, the university, I think likes
it better.

We will be right back after a quick break.
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So, diving into another headlineX University of Florida athlete
quarterback Jaden Kittner,which is son of Joe Kittner,

(34:34):
enters the transfer portal.
Why?
Because he, he, he was allegedHaving five.
He was charged with five countsof child pornography.
He accepted a plea deal for itand Now he's entering the

(34:55):
transfer portal because ufdropped dropped him to see if he
can play Elsewhere.
So let's not get into the weedswith the charges, the plea and
the allegations, but let's talktransfer portal and Some of
these athletes that are lookingfor second, third, fourth, fifth

(35:15):
, one hundred chances later, andreally talk about that.
This is what the transferportal is for.
However, for this case,specifically For me anyway, if
I'm interjecting my opinion intothis, if I'm a coach of
reputable coach, looking attalent, am I bringing this kid

(35:37):
onto my program with with whathad happened.
You know what I mean.
Like is this, this guy gonnafall to the wayside or is a
program that's struggling thatneeds a quarterback Gonna pick
him up and give him a secondchance?

Probably.
I mean, I would imaginesomebody.

Yeah, I mean not not.

D1, not D1, but I'll tell you I wouldn't be
shocked, man, like the other guywho didn't know these kids
hazing like, look at how the twostories intertwine with culture
, right, like sometimes you,when you're I mean especially
basically like a job interviewand those Interviewing have to
make the decision of whether ornot those character qualities

(36:21):
are ones they can help change.
Or they're going to watch orthey're like I'm gonna stand
away from this thing and they'regonna make that assessment on
it.
You know somebody is gonna lookat this kid and say our culture
can change that.
We, you know, we'll give secondchances.
That's who we are.
When reality they're driven bythe dude stats, what he can do,

(36:42):
the program and how the programcan win and how that coach can.
Unfortunately, there arecoaches out there that they need
the wins to keep the job, tokeep it going.
That I mean the reality of it.
So you put a lot of faith inyour coaches at this point as a
program that they will do that,do diligence and hold true to
the University's values whilestill making a good financial

(37:04):
decision.

Yeah, it's a conundrum of many of these
coaches Find themselves in,whether you just say, well, man,
we really need a quarterback.
That's the only missing piece.
You know we can, we can get to.
We can, you know, get to 10wins if we get a guy of this
caliber.
But then you know how does theuniversity feel about someone
who had these type ofallegations, and I think that's

(37:29):
you know when they'll starttrying to tout culture.
We can bring, bring them in andwelcome them and, you know,
help them.
You know, recalibrate and get ona different path and like
whatever.
But I, you know, I don't know.
I haven't seen the kid play soI don't know how Good he is, but
I mean, if he was going toFlorida he had to be Talented

(37:49):
you know he's three star goodgoing.

Three star, three star good.

Oh, three star three star, you know.
But yeah, I just think you seeit on any level, right with
sports.
I mean, we're talking aboutthis on the pro level with
players like how could that, youknow?
How could that team take this?
You know, a guy with thesecharges or past reputation of
whatever it's like.
They sign them.
You know it's, you know it's abranding thing, an image I'd

(38:18):
pass.
Personally I mean I don't knowthe guy, I don't know the
severity, but you know I do awhole chew to character values
when assessing.
You know the talent you want togrow.

So yeah, and I don't, I don't, I don't, I
haven't seen him play and I meanI would pass on him more than
likely.
You know.
Just, you know we, we survivedwithout him will be good, you
know, without you know, taking achance on him.

That's, that's just me, but it's the beauty of
the portal though, too.
Isn't it like to be able tohave that kind of Competition
within that?
Yeah, exactly right, which youknow?
I coached it a lot of levels tohigh school, being one of them,
and those kids that have accessTo that stuff is really
difficult to find, you know.

(39:02):
So it's it's in.
Coaches are strapped to, likethey can't provide all those
resources all the time to getthe kids seen, do the videos and
stuff like that.
So I think the portal is a goodthing, but it's competition
wise.
You hope that they pass onthose kinds of players.
Yeah, look for the good ones.

I think I think the portals got is.
I think there's a lot of valuein the portal.
I Think you know, sometime youknow players, you know they make
decisions on the schoolsthey're gonna attend and it just
doesn't work out, you know, formaybe there is a there, maybe
there isn't, you know aconnection between the player
and the coach or the player andother players on the team.
You know, maybe the city thatthey're residing in just doesn't

(39:40):
really match who they are as anindividual and they need to
change the scenery Right anddon't need to be penalized for
it by losing years.
That happens and I'm in fullsupport of that.
But then, on the other hand, Imean I think sometimes kids are
just oh, I'm not playing,immediately, I'm gone, I'm not
gonna play here, I'm gone, andthat's repeating that cycle.
So I think when it's abused, youknow, we see the ugliness of

(40:04):
the portal and that's like withanything you know, but I, you
know, I think you've got.
The portal also has all theother, All the other black
market Deals that go along withit like enticements you know,
hey, transfer here, we'll payyou, we'll give you this, this
much money, or we'll create,we'll give you this car, or

(40:27):
we'll do this for your family.
You know, I think all that,they all.
I think there's some of thathappening too.
Oh yeah you know you know.

Here's where I'm at with the whole thing, guys.
So the portal is gonna evolve,right.
So a couple notes that I wrotedown are are there gonna be more
stricter rules associated withhow you enter into the portal
based off of your character?
So Right now, we don't have anyrules of who enters into the

(40:56):
portal, aside from you have onefree pass To enter into the
portal and you're still eligibleto play that same year.
What I'm thinking is gonnahappen is, especially as we see
more of these characters poppinginto the portal, right is Is
the transfer portal gonna bestricter on who enters in based

(41:18):
off of character, based off ofCrimes, whatever the case may be
?
Because if we look at it likeNFL, wise right doing, if
something happens that's bad,whether you you are violent
towards your wife or your,you're in domestic disputes or

(41:40):
whatever the case may be there'spretty damn heavy penalties,
and so are we gonna start to seethat Strictness come down into
the NCAA for that Um and andagain.
This is all spitball and right,because this is still new and
it's still a question.

(42:01):
My take is like I don't knowthis kid at all.
Like like many of us, we don'tknow this kid, but I do know a
thing or two about people thathave parents that grew up as
professional athletes and orCelebrities and or whatever, and
our culture usually givespretty lenient Passes versus

(42:25):
like the normal person, like us,right, like if this same thing
happened to say me, it would bea lot stricter.
Like this guy got off notregistering on the sex offender
list and with community serviceand whatever, whatever, and I'd
like to think in the back of mymind, that's because of who his

(42:47):
dad is, too, and the nature ofthe beast, like I mean, guys,
let's call spade a spade, right,like these are things to think
about.
Are we being lenient because ofstatus and and Are we allowing
this athlete to still competebecause of status, or are we?

(43:09):
Are we doing the right things?
Like?
You know what I mean, I know it.

That's what I don't like about this individual
is actually the precedent itsets for Everybody else who's
doing it right.
You know what I mean like thisis Because you can see to your
point new, new sort of ways.
I actually think the portalwould be best suited by filters.
You put the power back to theindividual making the decision

(43:34):
Right.
Like the coaches, theuniversities, you don't make
that decision for that.
That's like you don't have todo it right.
So a business, if you don't haveto put yourself in a corner,
don't do it right.
It's like I can put the risk onyou, so put it in it on them.
But how many?
I mean I know so many kids thathave, like you know, just
misdemeanor charges, whetherit's a misdemeanor drug charge

(43:55):
or something like that thatkeeps them from even getting
jobs around here, right, like wehave a problem in in our
justice system with those sortsof offenses, holding people back
for everyday things.
And now this portal can run therisk of you know, yeah, he's
got.
This is, I would say, is aprobably serious one, right, but
if you had another person whohad one, that's like man and you

(44:17):
know where's the line on it.
So I think you bring up a goodpoint that there's potentially
new rules, and how do those newrules affect Everyday kids who
maybe got a bad rap or made onebad decision and now they can't
even, you know, look presentableor be seen in a portal?
You know on this thing, sothat's just my take on that put
that question you asked, which Ithought was good.

I Was a good question.
I want to try.
I mean I I think I agree thereneeds to be a rule of and it's
kind of a bag of worms where'sthe line?
You know, a felony is a felony,but there's a lot of.
I think each case has to beanalyzed and looked at and, like
he said, it's hard to get a jobwhen you have and If sports is

(44:59):
your way out and your way tosupport your family, it's not
Because you made a mistake withthe law.
I don't think you should betaken away from necessarily, but
I do think that it sets a badexample going forward of what is
okay to get away with and Beable.
I don't think that their, theirscholarship should be taking me
because I think academic shouldbe.

(45:19):
I don't think that should betaken.
But I do think the rightsplaying sport is a right and
it's something that should betaken away.
If something like that happens,I don't think that's a good
because there's a lot of peoplewould do it the right way.
Like he said, yeah, we're notrewarding.

We're not rewarding.
It's like a uniform, blanketapproach right now, right.
So whether we have an athletethat's doing all the right
things or we have an athletethat is a Opportunity athlete,
right, that is making some poordecisions, we're blanketing.
We have a blanket statementright now where we're not
rewarding appropriately and andI just don't think that

(46:00):
culturally that is acceptable,and again, that's just my
opinion.
I'm also old school too.
I was raised old school, but,jaden, so were you, and and a
lot of things for you, jaden,are strict because of your
father and you and you guys haveto Dance a fine line.
Dwayne, same with you, chase,you own your own business and so

(46:22):
you have to operate at thehighest caliber possible.
And then, alex, you were aprofessional athlete.
Your image was very important.
I mean, you had to make all theright decisions and you were on
the stage being looked at allthe time.
So why are we, why do we havethis blanket right now where,
like, whether you're good or bad, everything's the same

(46:44):
repercussion?

Yeah, I mean that's you guys can get quite.
I think it's a.
It's a sort of microcosm oflarger sort of life in general.
Right, like you know, you'vegot to work extra hard to be
seen, even if you're doing theright stuff.
You know we like to focus.
I think it's it's a valuesthing what we focus on.
But don't, don't lose yourvalues.
Don't go chasing whateverybody's looking for today

(47:11):
because, like I've shared withyou before, everything swings on
a pendulum.
So you just stay tight, thatpendulum is gonna swing back and
you'll be looked at quitedifferently when those things
change.
Like don't, don't, don't gowith the, the way the winds
going, stay true to somethingsolid.
So you know sure the eyes won'tbe on you right now.
It'll come back on you.
You know, stick to the process,stick to solid values and

(47:33):
things like that.
Things sway back all the time.
You know you get sick oflooking at things in one way.
So then you're like I don'twant to look at this anymore
like this.
So it swings back this way,like yeah, I appreciate you all
for your opinion on this.

I mean, it bodes .
It bodes more questions thatare unanswered right now, but I
can see changes happening, somemore to the transfer portal as
it evolves because, again,transfer portal and NIL are
still too new and they'reevolving All the time.
So let's move on.
Transfer portal wise, I havesome stats that are pretty

(48:10):
interesting.
Transfer portal wise, I havesome stats that are pretty
important.
This is where we'll start.
Here in Jaden talk a lot, soit'll be good.
As of right now, so as of the10th of July, here are the
statistics of how well utilizedthe transfer portal was for NCA

(48:30):
football right now.
At the top of that list,colorado.
So, as we all know, dionSanders is coaching Colorado has
51 total transfers that havebeen brought in to Colorado, 51.
That has a.
That's 60% of the team rightthere.

(48:52):
60% of the team is transfers.
Okay, let me finish with therest of the schools and then
we'll dive in.
The next school behind Coloradoright now is Ole Miss, with 25
people Leveraged from thetransfer portal 25.
Auburn is right behind Ole Misswith 21 being leveraged from

(49:16):
the transfer portal.
Behind Auburn is Oklahoma,using 17 and recruiting 17
people from the transfer portal.
We have Miami and USC, who have16 people that they have taken
from the transfer portal.
Lsu and UCLA have 14 peoplethat they have taken from the

(49:42):
transfer portal.
And then we have Oregon thathas 15 people taken from the
transfer portal.
These are just some top notableSchools, right with the most
that have been taken from thetransfer portals.
I know other schools haverecruited based off the transfer
portal, but these were some ofthe bigger numbers right here.

(50:03):
Um, in, in my take, I mean thetransfer portal is there for a
reason, right, and that's tobuild a strong program.
But in my mind I Still am a fanand Jaden knows this too
because, well, bias and me,right, I'm still a fan of the

(50:25):
good old-fashioned phone calland the old school wave
recruiting and really having thecoach in front of you and all
of that fun stuff.
And I know that Jaden and hisdad work real hard on that and
it's it's a lot of work and it'sa lot of time and it's a big
time commitment versus going ona computer and Looking at the

(50:47):
transfer portal and being like,oh yeah, I'm gonna just click
this button, I'm gonna put myname in the hat and hopefully we
grab this person.
So what are your guys'sthoughts?

the transfer portal is.
I'd like to know, like, of theschools that you mentioned, like
, let's say, colorado, sincethey have 51 transfers, how many
high school kids did theyrecruit this year?
Because I think the realdetriment to the transfer portal

(51:20):
has just destroyed the numberof high school kids and even
junior college kids that aregoing into the athletic programs
, and I think that's a problem.
You know, like if you don'thave so we're just looking at
football you know most schoolson average would recruit.
Let's say they had 25 availablescholarships and let's say they
only took.
They said we're gonna take fivejunior college guys and then

(51:42):
all high school kids, so that's20 opportunities for high school
kids.
Now, if they're taking you knowthey got 25 scholarships and
they're taking 20 portal guyswell, how are you building a
pipeline for that program?
There comes a point where yourun out of bodies.
You know you've just you'vecreated a decision that isn't
sustainable, you know.
So now you know how do youmanage that?

(52:04):
So I'm kind of from the schoolof thought where the portal is
good for, like filling animmediate need, like maybe one
or two guys, but I meanassembling an entire roster with
portal guys.
This doesn't really exist to me.
You know, that's now.
I'm sure there's some brilliant, incredible incredible,
incredible.

That's where I'm looking at it.
I'm looking at it like man.
I wish I would have bought somestock in Dion, because it looks
like this guy is a genius inwhat he's doing from his
perspective.
Like agree with everybody'spoints made about what it's
stripping from, but like fromthe numbers, this guy is like
he's killing it up there, likethat's the goals they wanted to

(52:44):
do as a university, as alocation, as an area.
Dion's been doing that for howlong.
I mean, he brought his oldprime time thing, brought voice
to a position and players likenever seen before.
Right, he's taking that modeland bringing it now to the
university.
And, like he's people that arewatching you know organizations

(53:08):
that are watching they're gonnafind themselves in that dilemma
where they're gonna have to makethe choice Do I go and compete
in this place with him, and isthat who we wanna be, or do we
wanna keep it old school, godirectly.
And this is how we want toessentially hire people to come
play for us.
Right, he's just found a newhiring pool that he thinks is a
competitive advantage for him inthe program.

So yeah, that makes sense.

That's what he's Colorado knew this was a huge
business opportunity for to getrecognition.
For that, I mean, just themedia attention alone is worth
it to hire him.
But the kids transferring, youknow, just from a business
perspective, I mean you know Idon't know where they're all
coming from, but these kidsimmediately get attention on
them just by being coached byprime time, more than likely.

(53:53):
And you know, maybe some NILdeals come in their way just
because they're on the team andgetting recognition playing in
Colorado that they may have notbeen in their previous program.
From a business perspective,now, from a hiring perspective,
I agree with DeWayne here.
I mean you gotta have apipeline plus.
You know, why are these kidstransferring?

(54:15):
Is always my question.
You know, like where's thecommitment to the program that
you signed up for to begin with?

There's not a lot of it, but there's not a lot of
it.

Yeah, it's like, yeah, right, it's like dating,
it's like, yeah, they leftsomebody that could meet him
again.

And Deon in the answer to all your questions.
So as a coach we do it's notjust pressing a button Still
gotta call the transfer kids toagreement with.
There's, I think there's, Ithink maybe like a limit on the
year, like maybe your sophomoreyear would become eligible to
transfer.
That way we still have highschool kids getting recruited

(54:54):
for that first two years, ormaybe you can't transfer after
your sophomore year, somethingthat way it's more fair.
But I mean Colorado's greatteam.
It's gonna be musty televisionevery week for sure, and we got
to play in week two.
I think we played them in theirfirst home games.
I'm super excited, I'm superexcited, but they still gotta

(55:15):
play.

TCU.

They gotta play TCU, oregon, usc, arizona State,
stanford, ucla, oregon State,arizona and Utah.
So we're gonna see how manykids gonna stay around after
this hot year, but I hope theydo because USC's leaving and I
think Deon's in a really goodspot to really run that
conference with Utah and he's ina spot to be in a championship

(55:38):
game every year.
If they stick around and theyshould he's a great coach.

Yeah, you got a point.

Hopefully they stick around.

Hopefully Deon sticks around, man he might be,
if he goes out there and doeswell, See, that's that's, that's
that's that's the geniusness,and it is.

He's looking for results now, right.
To make the next you know, thisis yeah this is results now
type scenario.
That's why he's going throughthe portal, tried and true.
You know, go with.
Go with players that know asystem Like he doesn't want to
have to deal with some younghigh schooler in their sort of
transformative years gettingadjusted and everything Like I
got to win games now.

(56:17):
I'm primetime, you know if Idon't win games.
This is, this whole thingcrumbles here.

Well, maybe his whole strategy is like okay, I
can go to this Colorado you knowa smaller Power Five or not as
prominent Power Five win somegames, then get a job in you
know the SEC or you know theTexas of the world, and where
he's there he can get the besthigh school kids.
So he doesn't need to flirtwith the portal.

(56:43):
Cause you get oh, I want thattop, top 300 quarterback, I want
that top 100 running back.
He's going to get the cream ofthe, the pick of the litter for
all the high school players,which he can't do.
He couldn't do at Jackson state, can't do it at Colorado, but
you can do it.
If you can get to Auburn, youcan do it if you get to Florida,
you can do it at Clemson, youcan do it at Alabama, you know.

(57:04):
So he gets one.
His whole strategy willprobably change.

That's true.
That's true.
That's why we need yeah, hemade that jump right From
Jackson state up to there.
I mean, that's it's Dion.
Like you know who, dion isright.
It's just kind of follow,follow the player.

Back to the culture question too.
I mean he has a great culturethat he built you know
previously and bringing that toColorado I think.
I think the kids are excited tobe a part of that culture and
you know why they're looking atplaying for him.
I think they'll stick aroundlonger than typical programs are
doing right now, but he seemed.

(57:42):
He seemed to get it atJacksonville state.

I mean as a as a sport, as a sports guy and being
at Oklahoma.
It's fun when it's fun whenthey like you and it's not fun
when you are projected likethey're projected.
Only win three games and sellout every game.

So how hard is it to maintain the culture when
you're not willing to talk aboutculture, I mean that, I mean it
just.

I mean we talked about Northwestern, just to
start the culture, you got 40different kids from different
states.
So, you got a.
I mean just to build the teamis going to be a fun camp, but I
mean I he had to do, he had todo the car.
I was outscored 406 to 155 lastseason.
So those players that werethere, you got to do it.

Yeah, yeah, but big risk come with big falls,
you know.

so that's, but that's, that's beyond the first
years, oh is the roughest.
So that's for sure, yeah, andif you want, to Travis Hunter
one on one on the outside,you're going to get results.

I mean, it's just going to be a college football
was getting a little sleepywithout this move in general.
You know it was kind of justthose in there.
So he added, he added some lifeto the entire thing.
You know I tuned in for alittle crime time, for sure, I
agree.

That's another.
I'm looking forward to watchingthem open the season.
I'm sure they'll be ontelevision.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

You guys bring up all, all of you bring up
awesome points, but one that Iwant to bring up is the academic
side.
Of course, the PhD personbrings up the academics, and the
reason why is because, with thetransfer portal, you have all
these different people coming inand, yeah, they want to play
for Dion.
What does this do for theuniversity as an entity, for

(59:29):
academics?
You know what I mean.
Like these are the questionsthat I'm thinking about.

So, again, as a as a coach, I can answer that.
So we have a whole team ofwhole academic team.
We have our staff meeting thatanalyzes the university, stands
in academic people to footballmeetings and they analyze all
your recruits and they triedtheir best to get them eligible
to be able to come play.
So if they need a 3-0, we'llsit down with academic guys.

(59:58):
Okay, you got to take thisamount of summer classes to
reach this.
You got to do that so they'rebrought in at the nobody's pass
through if that makes sense.
So they have to meet therequirements no matter what, and
it's just a matter of extraclasses or or retaking classes.
That really gets guys in Cause.
A lot of, a majority of like95% of kids are smart enough to

(01:00:22):
get in there.
Any major besides, likeStanford, you know, and UCLA, is
tough, but you know that goingin Isn't Colorado is a high
academic.

Dwayne Taylor (01:00:32):
That's a STEM school, right.

Jaden Norvell (01:00:33):
Yeah, but I mean when you, when you're outscored
by 300 points and you cut allyour players, you have 45 open
scholarships, so that's a lot ofscholarships.
But you know, as long as youcan get in with the three, four,
that's paid for.

Alex Fichera (01:00:49):
Those tuition dollars are going to go up.

Chase Insogna (01:00:53):
Not a lot of state guys.

Yeah, the tuition is about to go up.
I mean some money will flowinto the overall education
program.
You know, I think that's.
You know universities aren'theartless.
I mean they definitely want tolook after the education and the
sustainability of people'sfutures beyond there, right?
So it's not a an all or nothing.
So this will give a boost to alot of programs.
You're going to see some moneytrickle down into some certain

(01:01:18):
academic studies, mayberesources you know for them.
I imagine you'd see some ofthat stuff come through.
You know, but the tuition isdefinitely going up and that's
what you know.
Everybody can be happy aboutDion being in their school.
They ain't going to be toohappy when they see the bill for
Dion.
I mean, who do you think paysfor Dion?

(01:01:38):
Like that's, that's what comes,like his new office and all
that stuff that's in there.
Okay, that'd be a lot ofathletic program, all those
resources.

Eventually it trickles down the tuition and
what you pay it used to be likethat, though, to Colorado used
to be good, really good.
They used to be top big 12.
So they're, they're used tobeing up there.
They were not.
They were not having it.
They were not having it.

Dustin Steffey (01:02:05):
More to come on that one, Jaden, when I come
visit.
You were definitely going downthere, so just yeah, I mean all
you got.

I mean we play them second game.
You guys will see me on thesideline.

That game is stupid.
Y'all see, y'all see Dustin outthere too.

You see Dustin out there.

So the game's in Fort Collins or it's in.

Boulder.
It's in Boulder.
It's their first home game, bro.

That's probably going to be on national
television.
I probably only used to.

Yeah, yeah.

Look at that.
You getting something off ofthe whole thing, now I'm at a
popcorn rate.

Yeah, that's what I'm going to do, my.

NIL deals for that week.

Okay, good transition, jaden.
So let's transition into NIL.
I think we've talked enoughabout transfer portal and we've
had a lot of good conversationwith that, but let's, let's dive
into NIL.
Dwayne, I know pre-roll, wewere talking about some of these
deals and I know you have someinformation on that, so the

(01:03:02):
floor is yours.
On NIL, the only changes thatI've seen for rules right now is
NCAA is trying to get more of auniformed approach on the NIL.
There hasn't been anything yetbecause they're still kind of
waiting.
Like most politicians andpolitics, we're going to be
playing the hurry up and waitgame.

(01:03:23):
So, with that being said, nilwise, where are we seeing the
majority of the money's comingfrom, and about how much money
and about how much are theseathletes worth and how's it
measured?

Yeah, you know, you know, while I was doing my
research, I started to likestumble upon like some
interesting stuff.
You know, like you'd see, likethese value valuations right,
and you wonder like, well, whatdoes the valuation really mean?
Is it like a house?
Well, your house is worth,let's say, 500,000, but how much
money do you really have fromit?
So, you know, that was one ofthe things that I looked at.

(01:03:58):
But you know, really, I see,like some of the women athletes
who are really crushing it inNIL, like, for example yeah,
biggest like, for example, sonnyLee, who was Auburn gymnast she
was in the.
Olympics a few years back.
I mean her, her valuation wasat like 1.6 million but it's

(01:04:19):
probably all legit because shewon a gold medal.
Right, she's certified, she'sofficial, but she has
sponsorships like Cliff Bar,amazon, Gatorade, like
Invisalign, target.
You know those are like majorAmerican, you know companies,
you know.
So it's not like.
You know she's got a sound,she's got to deal with Duane's

(01:04:40):
local sandwich shop in Auburn,alabama, or whatever.
You know it's like, it's likereal, you know.
And then you guys have probablyheard of, like those, those
Cavender twins like the Haley,and Haley and Hannah.
They played basketball atUniversity of Miami but they
were at Fresno State, you knowplaying basketball and they were

(01:05:00):
.
You know, one of them was astarter, you know, and you know
there's articles out there thatsay like oh, they're making all
their money because they lookgood.
You know they're using theirsexy.

Hey, that mountain-west basketball bro.

But they said those girls are earning $2
million a year, like earningfrom all their endorsements.
Like they have like a huge likeTikTok and Instagram following.
You know, so they're reallypopular.
But then the highest in the top10 of NIL deals you know Olivia
Dunn is the LSU gymnast.

(01:05:34):
Yeah, like in money handoverfist man.
Like she's got deals with likeForever 21, grubhub.
You know cosmetic brandsAmerican.

Eagle.

Olivia Dunn Dude.
She's the highest earningfemale athlete in California.

Olivia, she's going looking.
So you know, we're not, we'renot, we're not, we're talking
business here.

We're talking business here.
Straight business.

Straight business makes sense, the females are
earning a lot of money becausefemales are the biggest buyer in
the market for products.
So for these companies to signon to female athletes that are,
you know, getting a lot ofeyeballs and attention.
It's smart for these companiesto be doing it, For sure.

And then you know , when you look at that, it's
like, well, what are the guys?
You know, are the guys gettingthis kind of money?
There's information floatingaround out there but, like I
mentioned, women are backed byCliff Bar, Amazon, target,
gatorade, where football playersare getting money through
collectives.
You know.

Yeah, and you wonder like well, what is?

the collective.

Who's backing the collective that's?

always been my question.

I think it's like I think it's so so so this is a
great, this is a great time inhistory type of equal pay.
And I think this is greatbecause back in the day, like
you use Barry switcher recruits,you eat by your mama car but
very, very you know if you're agirl getting recruited for

(01:07:08):
basketball, you weren't gettingshit, you know, and I think it's
, and so I think it doesn't makecollectives for guys for a long
time.
So this is great.

But.

But you know, but, but.

But if you look at like the top five, so they've
made projections right.
So like the top five NILearners for 2023.
You guys won't believe who'sthe number one projected in IE
earner for 2023.
You guys probably will bethinking about it.

Got to be some sort of obscure Dustin's.
So the obscure.

Dude Brani, James James.
Oh yeah, yeah, and archmanthere are a lot of names there.

There you go in that valuation and that call
that valuation inflation.
Right, that's because of theparents of that background, like
yeah, so other people got tolook at that and look at it with
a little bit of like, all right, you know, and let's take
Lebron James's kid out of it,right, that's?

is it right with father?
Well, he's a good basketballplayer.

So, besides, besides Peyton Manning's son and
Bron's son, who is beside them,so number three is the kid
Mikey Williams, the high schoolball player.

He's a hoop yeah.

So he has a sportswear deal with Puma.
So you know that's, that'spretty big.
And then Caleb Williams isnumber four.
You know the quarterback USCTrojans, the best quarterback in
the nation.
He was number four.
And then number five collegeathlete was Olivia Dunn, the LSU
team.

That 3.4 million, yeah, 3.4 million, that's so,
besides, so, besides football,the highest paid athlete in the
world as a female, yeah.

Mm, hmm, college.
Well, brani James, archman yeah, brani James and Mikey.

Yeah, I want to count.
You can't count the legacy kids.
No, I think you Right.
You boil it down.

You boil it down, the earnings, actual earnings
during a year.
Right, I think she probablydoes have them.

I think she has them too, just based on her, her
, her, her sponsors.
You know me count.

Instagram.

I mean she's got, she's got deals with ESPN.
Olivia Dunn does.
I mean she's, she's big time,she is, you know, top of the top
.
But it's interesting, man likeI just read off all that and you
know, when you're looking forthis NIL step online there's so
many like kind of sketchwebsites You're like, where are

(01:09:40):
they getting their information?
Is it credible, you know?
But I did see something onSports Illustrated, you know,
and it had me really thinkingabout what, what the NIL
marketplace really looks like.
And so they were saying thatNIL collectives are offering
like significant funds and it's,you know, kind of like an NTA

(01:10:01):
violation, but it's unregulated.
But they were saying the top 10ranked players for like both
football and men's basketball,received an average of $500,000
each, $500,000 each, so that.
But they're saying just the top10, right.
And then they said the top 300football players you know are
receiving like $30,000 a yearand the top 150 basketball

(01:10:24):
players are making $50,000 ayear, and that's largely through
NIL collectives.

So I think that's great, all that money my
initial CPA question is how youfile taxes.

Yeah, I remember.
Because you know other than theJames family and the Manning
family who have the resources.
You know a lot of thesefamilies don't even think about
it or have the resources.

So like who's really on the hook, like the
collective providing the moneyor the one receiving the money
the one receiving the money, theother one paying taxes on it?
Are they paying taxes If itcomes in?

like a check.
So that's, that's the.
That's where I think the newNIL is that they can start a
business entity and receivefunds through that.
That would be their best routeis to remove themselves as an
individual.
Now, Chase, you can probablyback that up, but it's, you know
, create yourself some sort ofshell to run it through versus
the individual for liabilitiesand stuff.

(01:11:20):
Right.

Yeah, liability a little bit, but you know,
mostly from a financialperspective.
I mean, we we focus on S Corp.
Some have been talking about SCorp for the last 12 years,
teaching attorneys about it too.
But you know, over the last 20years of, you know, llc S Corp,
you know, is what most of thesepeople should be setting up,
we're making over 50, 60 K netprofit after expenses.
That's like our break even forjust setting up an S Corp.

(01:11:45):
So if you're, you know, getting50 or 100 K plus and from these
collectives or you know, nilsponsorship deals, you know from
whatever age you should besetting it up and managing it
that way.
You know you can be any age tohave a LLC S Corp.
You don't have to be 18 overand you know the tax savings

(01:12:09):
from doing it that way arethousands of dollars.
There are tens of thousands ofdollars, depending on what kind
of money you're making.
So as soon as you, you know,even consider signing the paper,
you know, talk, reach out to aCPA and have a conversation
about taxes, because otherwiseyou're just wasting money to the
government and overpaying FICA,payroll taxes, movie industry

(01:12:34):
you know, a lot of kid actors doit.
It's called loanouts.
You know, and they're all allthe major ones are working under
an S Corp as a loan out in aproduction company.
So we're trying to educate theNIL deal and I L kids with you
know you need to set up an LLCand need to make, you know, make
an S Corp election, you signthe agreement of whatever deal

(01:12:55):
you're making under the LLC'sname and that way the LLC's you
know, collecting the check, yougot to have a separate checking
account.
That's where it kind of alicensed money manager like a
CPA can come into play to helpmanage that process for you and
make sure you're doing itcorrectly.
But from a tax perspective, youknow we're trying to educate
the market because this is sonew with NIL stuff.

(01:13:16):
These kids, especially inunderserved markets like where I
grew up and Houston, you knowthey, they don't know any better
.
Their parents don't probablyeven have a CPA because they're
just making a W2 and filingturbo tax or some tax software.
So you know they don't, theydon't get into that conversation
.
But if you own a business, youknow you own rental property.

(01:13:36):
I mean, if you're getting NILmoney, you're in a business,
plain and simple, and you knowyou need to think about reaching
out to a CPA at whatever ageand, you know, have a
conversation to save on taxes.
Otherwise, again, you're justwasting it in for the government
.

Yeah, it's opportunity.
I like it.
You know it's giving peopleopportunity start accruing some
wealth a lot earlier.
You know it's.
But but I'll be honest with you.
There ain't people out therelined up to go tell you this
information, like sitting aroundwaiting to like oh, let me tell
you exactly how to do it.
You got to go seek it out andget it.
Yeah, I mean, that's what youjust heard it right there, he's

(01:14:17):
waiting for you, like you got tostep and go ask they might need
.

I mean well, the biggest thing for me is you know
I years ago I applied, you know, to be part of the NFL players
association and the GrammyAssociation.
Because we work with some ofthese people and those
associations, I have an emailthey do not accept CPA in their
association.

Oh, you know they don't.

They allow attorneys.
They allow financial advisorshow many of those have you seen
on American Greed?
And they allow agents but notCPAs.
And you know from you know Iwould say I'm biased, but I mean
it's called the most trustedprofession in America for a
reason, as we police ourselves.
So you know you don't see a lotof CPAs.

(01:15:03):
You know stealing money frompeople like musicians and
athletes.
I mean, just look at 30 for 30.
How many NFL players have gonebroke Now?
How many musicians have gonebroke?
Their own association doesn'teven care about them enough to
allow CPAs in the association tohelp them.
So it's really on the onus ofthe person receiving the money,

(01:15:25):
ie these kids and getting anIELD to be aware of it and think
about it.
They're not teaching financialeducation in high school,
teaching it in college.
You know.
So you know at some level.
You know you got to reach outand hopefully watch this podcast
and be educated about it so youcan at least have a
conversation and know what yournext step should be.

Education.
That's the biggest gap or thebiggest success to anyone.
You're either educatingyourself or you're not, and so
that's why we had all of you onright.
Everybody has a lane on thispodcast right now, and that lane
is very specific.
And so for you, chase, likeyou're right, like this is

(01:16:13):
something that everyone needs tothink about, because, at the
end of the day, taxes aren'tgoing away.

Yeah, I mean I'm passionate about educating the
market and our clients andpeople we talk to.
I mean you can call us andwe'll just have a conversation,
because I care about people andwe always treat how we do taxes
like it's our own money.
That's how we approachmaximizing tax savings here.
But I am passionate, just as aprofession, to help people avoid

(01:16:43):
overpaying taxes, and I grew upin East Houston.
Nobody taught me how to managea checking account.
In high school I was naturallyeducating myself towards money
because it's who I am.
I'm not an athlete, I never wasoutside of Little League but

(01:17:07):
I'm the business guy and themoney guy.
That's why I always loved money, but so did accounting, got
into taxes.
But so we're passionate aboutteaching families and kids about
it, because a lot of times thismoney comes very early in a
life and these athletes getmoney very early on.
If you spend it, the money goesaway.
So we're not trying to educateto just save it all, but at

(01:17:32):
least manage it properly and puta good chunk away for a rainy
day.
So it's there for you.
I mean you invest it properly,you can live off the dividends
for the rest of your life.
If you're making 500K a yearfrom a collective man that's
impressive.

So, that being said, recapping everything right
, we've discussed a lot today.
We've discussed and hadconversations centered around
NIL, transfer portals, aroundheadlines and NCAA, you name it.
We got that all out today.
But, in closing, for all of us,I want to just go around to

(01:18:13):
everyone real quick Biggesttakeaway from today and most
important impact from just thisepisode and what we discussed
today, just to kind of summarizeit.
So, instead of me summarizingeverything, right, we have
enough people on here to haveeverybody's take on it.
So let's go around the room.

(01:18:35):
We'll start with Alex and thenChase, dwayne, chaden, and all
end us up.

Man, well, I appreciate it.
I mean what a greatconversation you know.
You got yeah to peoplelistening.
I mean this is, you know you'regoing to get some great
information here, but you got togo and act and do something on
it.
You know that's really thedifferences in just acting upon
these things.
But I will say, based on ourconversation, you know, just be

(01:19:03):
aware that it is a.
You know, be aware of the gameyou're playing.
You know this is a business andyou are stepping up into it.
There are rules and there areguidelines and there are ways to
present yourself and increaseyour value, and so being aware
of that actually gives you thefreedom to be yourself, play
with it, do different things inthere and be flexible and take

(01:19:24):
it to the limit you want, butjust really understand the
larger scale.
Step back and look at it to seewhat's going on, because
there's a lot of interest inplaying people working around
the scenes.
So don't be naive to the systemyou're in.

Very good point.
Thanks for having me on.
You know kind of biggesttakeaway is.
You know I always like to sayall money is not good money.
So you know, think about whatyou're doing.
You know who you're signing onto, where this money is coming
from, what are the expectationsof the money.
You know it's important also tothink about.
You know, before you sign thatdotted line, and then you know

(01:20:00):
certainly, as it kind of endedearlier you know as soon as
you're even considering signinga deal or getting money, you
know, talk to a licensed CPAabout setting up an LLC, maybe
making an escort, how to save ontaxes.
Because as soon as you get thatcheck, you're a business, it's
1099 money and you're anindependent contractor at that

(01:20:23):
point.
So it's the onus on you to paytaxes.
It's the onus on you to manageyour own money properly.
And a lot of times I'm afraidthat we're going to see a lot of
tax cases with these kidsspending all the money and not
saving enough for April 15th topay taxes.
And you know that's what we'retrying to help avoid here.

(01:20:45):
So make sure you're talking toa professional and you know,
remember that your agents andyour you know it's not a
licensed CPA and not, you know,a licensed professional, so to
speak from a state boardperspective.
So your attorney we always tryto communicate being a team
around you.
You have an attorney, you havean agent, you have a CPA, you

(01:21:08):
have an insurance person, youknow whatever that team needs to
be, your marketing, etc.
I mean, you're the CEO of yourbusiness collecting that money.
So make sure you have the rightresources around you to protect
your interest and don't end uplike everybody you see on TV
that went broke or somebodystole it from them.

I think it's.
I think it's on me now.
It was a fantastic you knowroundtable discussion with some
really brilliant and charismaticguys here today and I mean I
think it's an exciting time incollege athletics.
You know we've got you know,levels of parity from a you know
compensation standpoint withthe student athletes that never

(01:21:46):
existed.
And now we've got, you know,some of our top earnings, top
earners through collegeathletics, through in the NIL
program, are actually women andI think that's an excellent, I
think that's a great time for us.
On the downside, I think we'vegot more people making money
through NIL and collectives andthere can also be there can be

(01:22:06):
consequences of not doing thingsthe correct way.
I think Chase said it best.
You know you've got to be ableto set up your, your
organization, your operation, asthough you're a business,
because you are at this pointyou're a 1099 worker, you're not
a W2 employee where taxes areautomatically deducted.
And I think people need torealize like what can happen.
You might make your $100,000 ayear but if you didn't prepare

(01:22:27):
for taxes, you could be in for arude awakening and really, with
the opportunities you had to toput your life headed in the
right direction, with thiswindflow of cash or this
windfall of cash, you now areowning the over in the
government and you know thatcould that could lead to you
know, garnishments in futureearnings that you have through
an employer.

(01:22:48):
So I think this was veryinformative podcast.
I hope more, I hope more peoplewere able to listen to it and
maybe could take something fromit.
And you know, I'm just reallythankful for being on today
because I even I learnedsomething too.
So, with that said, you know,I'll hand it over to Jayden.

And again, it's awesome talking with you guys
and it's great talking ball withyou on this.
Oh, it's fun.
Definitely want to do thisagain during the season, you
know for sure.
I love to talk just aboutupdates and what's going on and,
like the way it says, a greattime for women and an IEL deal.
That's awesome.
And it's an exciting time withthe transfer of football, with

(01:23:27):
all these conference moves, uscgoing, the big 12 and San Diego
State leaving, and it's reallyfun.
And on the nonball side, it'sreally open.
Like doing this, I learnedsomething.
It's really open eyes to theneed for someone, like you know,
to my chase to educate themandatory in classes in high

(01:23:47):
school that you just a class youtake, you learn about taxes and
, as a honestly, I want to tellthe team, as a team football
teams, we should be educatingour players on these things and
it should be a mandatory classin my opinion.
And it's a great time for NIL,especially for, you know, you

(01:24:07):
see the a lot of middle class,middle class families.
Now you can start supportingyour family in high school and
that's huge and it's going tohave a big impact on our culture
in America as well, especiallyin the minority communities.
You know it's going to be big,that money coming in as soon as
you get freshmen.
Sometimes.
In some cases it's huge andit's really important that you
go to people like Chase to geteducated so you're not losing

(01:24:29):
your money and you're settingyour family up for generational
wealth.
And, on the back end of that,it's never been more of a time
where more eyes are on people,more eyes are on you as an
athlete.
Through social media, throughyour phone and we just saw it
with Northwestern.
They can get you for anything,even things you don't even know
about, and so it's reallyimportant for people in college

(01:24:51):
like my age to to be aware ofthat and your presence and how
you represent yourself.
And last but not least, it'sDustin's birthday today.

What, oh, whoa bro, it's a happy birthday.

Happy birthday, Happy birthday man.

Happy birthday, man.
I love you bro, yep, thanks,thanks, jaden.

So, I guess it falls on me now.

Now that segue.
So, first and foremost, I wantto thank all of you guys for
coming on.
Great minds, excellentconversation.
What Dwayne said, can't say itany better.
We have some brilliant mindsthat were on this episode today
and that's not to discreditanyone that's ever come on, but
for this, specifically in thistopic, we had some brilliant

(01:25:38):
conversation.
I felt very, very wellstimulated with the conversation
that we were having.
It was, it was just amazing.
Things came up that I thinkwe're going to be watching now,
or whether it be rules that arechanging or whatever.
We brought up some good points.
I think I'm going to reinforce,like Dwayne and everyone else

(01:26:01):
has to chase, specifically, ifyou all don't have a CPA in your
corner, it is very critical tothink about that and I just
can't say it enough, especiallyfor Chase and yes, I'm biased,
chase, I'm biased to you, but,like, find a CPA that you can
trust and one that isknowledgeable in the journey

(01:26:24):
that you're heading down.
Right, chase brought up a lotof knowledge bombs today that I
think are important to thinkabout.
So, chase, thank you Alex.
It's always amazing having youon.
It's always fun.
I love just the conversation,whether it be from athletics or
even your business mind man.

(01:26:45):
You're going places that I canonly hope I can head.
So I appreciate having you onDwayne.
You and I have a long, longrelationship right and it's just
growing bigger and bigger.
Man, I mean, I never would havethought when you and I puny
little MBA people in school,would ever ever be on a stage

(01:27:09):
like this where you and I arediscussing things that are
relevant and important.
So my relationship andfriendship with you is super
important and so always it's apleasure with you.
And then Chaden you alreadyknow, dude, like I hold you in
high regard.
You and your family.
You're amazing.

(01:27:29):
Your growth and you can seethis looking at podcast episodes
from the beginning all the wayto now I mean you're growing at
a substantial rate in your mindand in your education and your
knowledge.
You are just by far man likeyou.
Being as young as you are,you're just amazing and I cannot

(01:27:49):
wait to see Colorado performsone.
So don't let me down there, butColorado State, colorado.

State, I meant to say Colorado.

Yeah, me too.
I'm interested in that.
No, I can't wait.

No in all seriousness to see Colorado
State performs because there'snowhere to go.
I know you've been putting alot of hard work in with your
dad.
I mean you and your familynothing but respect.
I mean I'm like the black sheepsometimes, but I know I'm part
of your family and I just loveyou.
So like, thank you for coming on.

(01:28:27):
So like for this guy is likethank you for everything.
For the listeners, I will haveChase's link up if there are
listeners that need to talk tohim.
For CPA, if anybody wants totalk to any one of us, alex is
on every social media under thesun.
Like me, I will try to makesome relevant social media posts

(01:28:51):
to tag him in so you guys cantalk to him.
Dwayne is on LinkedIn, and thenfor Jaden, jaden's on every
social media under the sun too,so I'll make sure that his
relevant hashtags are on thereas well, too.
So, everybody, thank you.
Thank you to everybody that wason today too.
I appreciate you guys.

(01:29:11):
We are not a good podcastwithout having brilliant minds,
and this is just another exampleof one.
So thank you all.
Thank you for listening tochopping with fire.
If you guys like what you heard, please head on over to your
favorite social media platformand subscribe to our pages.
If you can, please drop us acomment like subscribe, and,

(01:29:35):
furthermore, head on over toyour favorite podcast platform
and leave us a five star review.
Again, thank you for that.
We enjoy our listeners and wedefinitely enjoy communicating
with them.
Lastly, we're in a specialmonth right now where we are up
for getting nominations for bestbusiness podcasts.
If you can head on over to theepisode description, we have a

(01:30:00):
link there where you can go andvote for your favorite podcasts
under categories such asbusiness comedy, shorts, etc.
We are going for the bestbusiness podcast, so head on
over to the business section andvote for chopping with fire.
Again, thank you for listeningto chopping with fire.
We thoroughly appreciate you.

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