July 14, 2025 • 46 mins
They're back for a midsummer's day conversation! Those boys of the Bible, they put the men in commentary and the tent in attention, the Two Michaels will take your questions about the Bible and the Christian life. Dr. Michael Rydelnik and Dr. Michael Vanlaningham want to hear your biblical conundrum. Don't miss the fun of biblical proportions with the Two Michaels on Chris Fabry Live.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:05):
Welcome to the daily conversation. We call Chris Fabry Live.
The program from the heart to the heart for the
heart today. It's one of our favorite conversations of the
month when we feature not one, but two guests who
want to talk with you about the Bible and how
to rightly divide the word of truth. I don't guarantee
they will agree on everything, but I do guarantee a
(00:26):
provocative and insightful conversation because it is time for the
two Michaels. And here's the number to call if you
have a question or a comment. (877) 548-3675. This might be
your day to get an answer to some spiritual conundrum.
Get in early today and let's see what these boys
of the Bible will do to enlighten us. The two
Michaels are straight ahead at the radio backyard fence. Let
(00:49):
me thank our team. Ryan McConaughey doing all things technical.
Tricia is in the chair today. Our producer Ananda will
be answering your calls now. Here they are. Those Bible
believing twin sons of different testaments. They put the ci
and disciple the new and hermeneutics, the fish and efficient,
the apt and rapture. I'm talking about open lines. Doctor
Michael Rudnick, who is also professor emeritus of Jewish studies
(01:11):
and Bible at Moody Bible Institute, and his co-editor, The
Ever Faithful of the Moody Bible Commentary. Former pastor of
biblical Research at Harvest Bible Chapel in Elgin, Illinois. Doctor
Michael Vanlandingham I give you friends the two Michaels. Yay! Yeah. Well. Hello, Michaels.
(01:32):
I'm doing.
S2 (01:33):
Great. I'm not sure Mike V can hear you, but
I hear you. Great. So. Okay.
S1 (01:38):
All right, well, I'll just talk.
S2 (01:40):
Good to be with you. I thought you were going
to say I'm the dis and dispensational. That's what I
was waiting on there.
S1 (01:45):
No, you put the pen in dispensationalist. Gotcha. Okay, so, Michael,
I'll start with you, and we're. We'll get Mike V
on here. Um, you heard the program that I did
last Friday on Follow the Way of Good People from
Proverbs chapter two. And you called me or texted me
or something and said something about that. Respond to that.
(02:06):
Follow the way of good people. What were you saying?
S2 (02:09):
Well, I was really struck by it as I was listening. Well,
first of all, Eva had a good verse that defines
what is a good person. And so I thought that
I would mention that, uh, if asked, it's Micah six eight.
What is a good person when you think about that? And, uh,
it says in Micah six eight the following, uh, the
(02:31):
voice of the Lord called, I'm sorry, you, mankind, humanity,
he has told you what is good and what it
is the Lord requires of you to act justly, to
love faithfulness, and to walk humbly with your God. That's
what a good person is, don't you think? Hmm. Uh.
And it's. You did capture that, I think, the way
(02:54):
you described various people When you talked about Don Cole
as being a great example, I think he epitomized Micah
six eight. So, uh, that was there. But then I
thought about this, uh, the word mensch in Yiddish. It's
actually from originally from German. It came into Yiddish. It
means a person of character, dignity, respect, uh, kindness, graciousness
(03:22):
towards others, generosity. It's. And as I was growing up,
it was the word that I was told more than
anything else. Probably because I was heading the wrong direction. Uh,
of be a mensch. You've got to be a mensch.
And one of the most memorable times for me was
when I was in eighth grade. And some guys in
(03:44):
my class brought in mace, a little can of mace,
and they were passing it around and we were all
looking at it, which was something illegal in New York
State to have mace. And just as it came into
my hand and I was looking at it and had
my finger on the trigger, the math teacher in the
class patted me on the shoulder and I got so
scared I squeezed the trigger and sprayed mace right in
(04:08):
my teacher's face. Oh, and I got a lot of trouble.
A lot of trouble. And I remember the the Dean
of discipline was out of school that day, and I
got sent to my homeroom teacher and Mr. Millman, Sheldan Millman.
He reamed me and those other four guys out really badly.
(04:29):
And then he said to the other four guys, you
guys go back to class, you stay ready. Melnick. And
he looked at me and he said, those guys are idiots.
I expect this of them, but I expect more of you, Michael,
than he said. You've got to be a mensch. Do
you know what that is? And I said, yeah, I
(04:49):
know what a mensch is. And he said, well, I
want to see a change from now on. And I
have to say, other than coming to know the Lord
a couple years later, that was one of the first
steps in my life that really made me want to
live in a way that was exemplary, different, uh, the
(05:10):
kind that would be good as as you were describing it.
That was a very interesting experience with Mr. Millman.
S3 (05:19):
I don't think I've ever heard you tell that story.
S1 (05:21):
Mike V have you ever heard that story from Doctor Melnick?
S4 (05:25):
I have not. I just want to check. Can you
guys hear me? Because we've had technical issues. Okay.
S3 (05:30):
You're good.
S4 (05:31):
Yeah. No, I have never heard that story. And I
just want to know what's mace like?
S2 (05:37):
Well, it didn't go in my face, but it sure
made my first year just out of college in the
middle of the year, taking over for my teacher who
went on maternity leave. We had this young 23 year old,
very nerdy math teacher and he couldn't breathe. It was
pretty bad. Well.
S4 (05:59):
I'll bet.
S2 (06:01):
But I got. That's all the trouble I got in.
Although Mr. Millman put a desk right next to his
big teacher's desk in front of the class, and when
I was in homeroom or in English, I had to
sit next to him.
S1 (06:12):
What did your mom or dad say when you got home?
When they heard about this? Or did you tell him?
S2 (06:17):
I did tell them, yeah. Mr. Millman told them he
called them. And this is the, uh. This is a
classic sense of Jewish guilt. Uh, Mr. Millman knew my
parents were both Holocaust survivors. And when he told me
I had to be a mensch, this is what he said.
When I think of all that your parents suffered, you
(06:41):
can't disappoint them by acting this way. You have to
do everything you can to live in a way that's mensch, like,
because you don't want to bring any more sadness to
your parents. And now that was Jewish guilt. And people say, oh,
did you feel terrible that he said that? Yeah, I
felt terrible because he was right. And and it really,
(07:02):
really spoke to me. So I don't feel resentful for
him using guilt like that.
S1 (07:07):
Okay. Doctor Vanlandingham, you have to come clean. Why did
you get sent to the office? You never were sent there,
were you?
S4 (07:15):
Uh, one time, just once. Um, my good friend Charlie
Joy and I rode to our school on our unicycles.
And during lunch, we rode up and down the hallway
on our unicycles. And I got kicked out for the
last half of the day. And bless my mom, she
(07:36):
came up. She got me. She thought it was a
really stupid reason why I got kicked out. She. I mean,
she was more upset at the administration, although she should
have been upset with me. And and she said, you know, Mike,
your dad has enough on his mind. I'm not going
to tell him about this. And I could have. I
could have fallen down and worshiped at her feet. She
was she was being so kind. So. So that was
(07:57):
that was the one time that I recall that I
ever got thrown out of school or, you know, and
got sent to the principal's office. That was a lot
of fun.
S1 (08:05):
Interesting. Well, that could be a whole program with every
guest we have that comes on here. I just ask him,
when were you sent to the principal's office and and
the stories that will follow. But. But today, the two
Michaels are here to ask answer questions. You ask the question,
they will answer the questions about the Bible, the Christian life.
(08:25):
If you want to call right now. I got a
few lines open for you at 87754836750. I have some
questions as well I want to give to them, but
I would love to hear your voice. (877) 548-3675. More with
the two Michaels straight ahead on Moody Radio. Oh, it's
(08:56):
my favorite day of the month. Well, when the two
Michaels come along, it's just like we get together and
we have a good time because we get to open
the Bible and we get to ask questions of the
text and of each other. And I got one here
from Facebook. I'm going to open the phone lines. (877) 548-3675.
(09:17):
But Lisa said this on Facebook I believe Jesus died
for every human. Though God knows, not all will receive Christ.
Did Jesus die for Judas, one of the two sons
of perdition? The Bible speaks of the Bible says he
died once for all, but we must repent and live.
It's our choice. What do you understand biblically about this?
(09:40):
So now I turn to the two Michaels and they
might have a disagreement about this. Or you said, Michael,
that you come at this from maybe a couple of
different perspectives. So let's start with you.
S2 (09:51):
With me. I believe that the when it says, For
God so loved the world that he gave his only
begotten son, it means that when Jesus died, he died
for the whole world, making atonement sufficient for everyone, but
only efficient for those who will, who are elect or
who will believe. So I think his death was sufficient
(10:15):
for the forgiveness of Judas. But Judas was, uh, rebellious
to the point that he would never believe and not elect,
and therefore it wouldn't benefit him that Jesus died for him.
It says in first Peter two about false teachers. I
(10:36):
think this is interesting because they are, uh, they're clearly
lost people because they commit apostasy. And so a person
who commits apostasy. A false teacher who commits apostasy is
someone that is in second Peter two that that kind
of person is lost. It's not like they lose their salvation.
(10:57):
They're lost. And it says in second Peter two that
these lost, these false prophets, these false teachers, they will
secretly bring in destructive heresies, denying the master who redeemed them,
who bought them. And so he redeemed them. But they
or provided the atonement he bought them. But their rebellion,
(11:21):
their unwillingness to believe, makes them deny that. And I
think that would be true of Judas as well.
S1 (11:28):
Okay. Mike V.
S4 (11:30):
Um, yeah. I mean, Michael and I really aren't very
far apart on this. Um, the best Calvinists will maintain
that limited atonement, uh, means that the death of Christ
is powerful enough. and wide enough to be sufficient for
everybody who has ever lived. But it is efficient that
(11:52):
is applied to only those who actually believe. And so
now you get into the questions related to, you know,
what's what's the ultimate goal of the of the atoning
death of Jesus. If he dies for the sins of
the world and the whole world doesn't trust him, then
there's dual punishment for their sins. That is, Christ died
(12:14):
for their sins, and then they die. And they have
to be punished for their sins as well. There's also
the argument that says that Jesus's death then is wasted
if everybody is not saved. Um, if he dies for everybody,
but not everybody is saved. And so, you know, Judas
is an interesting guy, and I've been trying to find it.
And I have to confess, I'm not able to do so.
(12:35):
But I think it talks in John's gospel that Judas
was actually, uh, sort of destined for, for punishment that
he was never part of Jesus's followers. And so, um,
did Jesus die for him? Well, if Jesus knew that
Judas was not actually one of his followers and was
predestined for judgment, then no, I guess maybe he didn't, um,
(12:58):
die for Judas. So. But that's that's that's coming from
somebody who's probably a little more limited atonement than Michael is.
S1 (13:06):
Yes, but. But what you just said predestined for judgment.
Does God you know, this gets into the theological question
of does God does God create people so he can
send them to hell? And it sounds like what you
said about Judas there is that that's that was what, uh,
(13:26):
the view that you would have. Is that how you.
I don't want to put words in your mouth.
S4 (13:30):
Well, okay. So so here's here's a couple of things. Um,
in Romans chapter nine, the apostle Paul says, um, you
will say to me, then why does he still find fault?
Who resists his will? Does not the potter. Verse 21.
Chapter nine does not the potter that is God have
a right over the clay, that is people to make
(13:52):
from the same lump from humanity one vessel for honorable
use in context salvation, and another for common use. Um,
which I think most, most good Calvinists would say that
that's a reference to double predestination, that God chooses those
who will go to heaven, and he chooses those who
will go to hell. And once upon a time, I
(14:13):
was taught, you know, God chooses those who will be saved,
but the rest he just leaves to the course of nature.
But is God ever a passive God? I'm not sure
that he is. And so, um, I it seems to
me that that you've, you have to wrestle with verses
like that that really seem to point in the direction of, of, um,
(14:35):
people being predestined for being lost. It says the same
thing in first Peter. I'll find the verse. Michael, you
can jump in here if you want while I'm looking.
S2 (14:45):
Well, I probably see it the way that Michael was
taught originally. When I look at first the passage in
Romans nine, it says that, uh, when he speaks about
the vessels that he made, he, he he it says
that he prepared these vessels beforehand for glory. So, God,
(15:09):
it specifically says God did it. But then when it
talks about the objects of wrath prepared for destruction, it
never says that God prepared them for destruction. Uh, it
says that they were prepared for destruction. And it could
be either a middle voice where it is reflexive that
they prepared themselves for destruction, or could very well be
(15:33):
that it's just passive, that it doesn't say who prepared
them for destruction. But I think that I don't want
to go beyond the text. They are prepared for destruction.
I think it's their own behavior, their sin that prepared
them for destruction. And then God in his mercy chooses
some that he prepares to be vessels of his or
objects of his mercy. But, uh, the outcome is going
(15:56):
to be the same. I just want to say that that, uh,
the outcome is the same, that no one would ever
seek God except that God opens our hearts to see him.
S4 (16:06):
Yeah. Let me let me just say a little bit
more about that in the context of Romans chapter nine.
You know, in verse 15, Paul says, referring to Exodus 33, um,
that God's mercy on whom I have mercy, I will
have compassion on whom I have compassion. And in verse 16,
so then it um, the probably the reception of God's grace,
(16:28):
saving grace, it does not depend on the man who
wills or the man who runs, but on God who
has mercy. And then verse 18, so then he has
mercy on whom he desires, and he hardens whom he desires.
He uses Pharaoh as the example. For this reason I
raised you up, Pharaoh, to demonstrate my power in you,
and that my name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth.
I think God chose Pharaoh to be a recipient of
(16:49):
his judgment, and we see that in the text. And
so when we come then to verse 23, verse 22,
vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, if we say that
the people prepare themselves, that's true. But in the context,
the much stronger contextual clue indicates that it's God who
(17:11):
prepares them. And there's different reasons as to why. The
passage I think is passive voice is used here, which
I won't get into because it's a little involved. But, um, yeah.
So I that's how I would take the passage too,
and that, um, this is how God functions. And he
can do this because he is God and we are not.
S1 (17:28):
Yeah. I think Elisa's question is really good, and I
but I would say there's an even better question than this.
and the payment and, you know, did Jesus die for
everyone's sin and only some get it applied to them?
The better question is, why in the world did he
pay for me? Why would he have grace and mercy
(17:52):
for me? And I'm not saying the other questions aren't good,
but I keep coming back to that to to say, oh,
the amazing grace of God. Uh, and that kind of
begs the question of, you know, am I worth something?
Is that why he did that, or did he simply
do it in his mercy for me? Uh, in spite
(18:15):
of my sin, you know, in spite of me, he
paid my sin debt. Michael.
S2 (18:21):
Well, I think it's interesting that there's a verse. I'm
going to go to the part that Michael and I
agree on, that he chose some to be objects of
his mercy. It says in acts 1348, uh, all who
have been appointed to eternal life believed. I don't understand that.
But why did God do that? Why did he die
(18:41):
for me? Why did he die for you? On the
one hand, none of us are worthy. But we do
have great worth to God because we were made in
his image and because we were made in his image.
He paid an infinite, infinite price to redeem us. The
price of his own son. And so I am just
awed by his mercy when I think that he didn't
(19:02):
need to do that. He didn't. Nothing compelled him other
than his love. So. And I think Mike and I
would just jump up and down agreeing with that.
S5 (19:10):
Yeah, yeah. For sure.
S1 (19:13):
All right. Let me go to your calls. (877) 548-3675 with
the two Michaels. Sharon is in Chicago. Hi, Sharon. Go
right ahead.
S6 (19:23):
Hello? Yeah, I'm calling from Chicago, and I, um, have, um. Well,
it's two questions, but it's kind of like, the same, Um,
since the new pope, uh, got installed, um, a lot
of information have been coming through about the Catholic Church.
And I heard that, um, from the Catholic, that, uh,
(19:49):
Mary didn't have any other kids outside of Jesus, although
the Bible said, you know, that, you know, they name
a couple of kids that she had, but they said
that they were close relatives. They were not, uh, Jesus siblings.
S5 (20:09):
Right. So your.
S1 (20:10):
Question is, is that true? Which is true. Right.
S6 (20:14):
Right.
S1 (20:15):
Okay.
S5 (20:16):
Got it.
S1 (20:16):
Michael.
S5 (20:19):
Michael. It's it's a little.
S4 (20:21):
Bit of an argument from silence to say that Mary
had no more children. Uh, the text doesn't say that.
It never says that. Um, it's silent on the question.
But then we do have in the Gospels, uh, the
appearance of Jesus's brother, brothers and two sisters, I believe.
(20:41):
And so it seems to me that the more reasonable
way to understand this is that Mary and Joseph had
more children after Jesus was born. Uh, again, no clear
indication that that was not the case. Although, um, we,
our Catholic friends, want to perpetually argue for the perpetual
virginity of Mary, which I don't I don't think is
(21:04):
a biblical, uh, biblical doctrine at all. And you can't
find it in the text?
S2 (21:10):
Yeah. And Matthew 125, after the the angel comes and
tells Joseph it's okay to marry Mary because she is
a virgin and this is a miracle that she's pregnant.
It said he did not know her intimately or did not.
He kept her a virgin, as I think. How the
old text says it. Uh, he did not know her
intimately until she gave birth to a son. The implication
(21:33):
there being that after Jesus was born, they had a normal,
healthy marriage with children and multiple children. And I know
my Catholic friends want to say, well, the words for
brothers and sisters has to do with extended family, not
the actual siblings of the Lord Jesus. But, uh, I
(21:56):
don't think there's any reason to suspect we don't need
another Redemptoris. We have one sufficiently, the Lord Jesus. And
so Mary, she even says in Luke that that God
is her Redeemer and in her in her Magnificat. She
obviously is someone that's sinful and needs a redeemer herself,
that she gave birth to the son who would redeem her.
S1 (22:17):
And there's there's a lot of differences between Protestant and Catholic,
and that's one of them. That's one of the of
the ways. And then what the church would teach the
Catholic Church would teach that Mary does along with Jesus.
Go ahead.
S2 (22:33):
Can I can I just say something here? My Catholic
friends that want to have Mary as sinless and a
perpetual virgin, they're doing it out of the best motives.
They're not. They're not looking to do anything bad. It's
just they they have such a high view of Mary.
And you know what? I think sometimes we need to
remember that she was one of the most amazing women
ever born. Uh, not a not a perpetual virgin, not
(22:57):
a co-redemptrix. Nothing like that. But she was amazing. You
can't hardly find a person with greater faith and dependence
on God than you will see with Mary getting this responsibility.
It really is amazing.
S5 (23:10):
Agreed. The only exception to that.
S4 (23:13):
I'm sorry. The only exception to that would be Joseph.
S5 (23:17):
Who?
S4 (23:17):
Who married a woman who from external appearances had been
unfaithful to him. He was going to divorce her, but
he was going to do it privately and kindly. And
after they got married, he was not physically intimate with her.
And that man was the kind of man that every
woman ought to be looking for.
S1 (23:36):
Good point. Thanks, Mike. V all right. Susan. Sharon. I'm sorry.
Great question. Greg's in Chattanooga. We'll get the question and
probably won't have time to answer it fully. But, Greg,
what do you want to ask the two Michaels?
S7 (23:50):
Hi. Yeah. Greg from Chattanooga here. Um, I guess after.
I guess the question I have is about, um, after
October 7th, obviously, a lot of folks in the church, um,
were moved by those, uh, by that, by what happened
with Israel. And some, some churches have been starting to
put up the Israeli flag. So I guess the question
to the Michaels are obviously the church. Um, I don't
(24:11):
know what their thoughts are as far as the political
nature of Israel versus the Israel and the Bible. And
how do churches, um, show support and don't don't show support,
don't get involved politically? How do they have wisdom in this?
And a lot of people in the church are kind
of confused about this topic, and it'd be great to
have their insights on how to how to have wisdom
(24:33):
as we approach the political nation of Israel versus the
Israel and the Bible.
S1 (24:40):
I you know, and it's we've got a minute before
we end. And so, you know, I'm going to call
it Greg. That's such a great question. And I had
Doctor Redlich on with me. Uh, it was a couple
of weeks ago, Michael, I think, and we we dealt
with some of this, but I want to hear what
Mike has to say as well. And I'm going to
give you an opportunity to get in on the conversation
and ask your question. We'll deal with Israel when we
(25:02):
come back from a break. Here's the number 877548367518775483675. And
you know what we have for you this month. It's
a great resource for anybody who is taking the Bible seriously.
And that is Colin Smith's book Drive Through the Bible.
(25:24):
It's a 30 day journey. I'd love to send it
to you. It's a game changer because it gives you
a landscape of Scripture. You'll discover how the old and new,
the wisdom literature, the poetry sections, the prophecy section, how
that all comes together. Give a gift of any size
at Chris fabric.org. We'll send it to you. Go to Chris.
(26:03):
This is Chris Fabry live at two Michaels edition today (877) 548-3675.
Greg in Chattanooga called with a really good question about
the confusion in the church about political Israel. Israel in
the Bible, uh, flying the Israeli flag of what are
the two Michaels think about this since we had Doctor
(26:24):
Redlich on a couple of weeks ago. Talked about that.
I'm going to give Mike V the Gentile Mike V
the opportunity to to start out here. Mike, what do
you say?
S5 (26:34):
Right.
S4 (26:35):
I think and Mr. Doctor could take us to a
host of other passages, but I think two passages are
found back to back, Ezekiel 36 and Ezekiel 37 that
indicate that Israel is going to be regathered as a people,
as a nation, um, without actually being right with God,
(26:58):
yet saved in in Ezekiel 36, it says, God is
speaking here through Ezekiel. For I will take you from
the nations and gather you from all the lands, and
bring you into your own land. Then notice that word.
Then I will sprinkle you. I will sprinkle clean water
(27:20):
on you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse
you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.
And it goes on from there. And it says, make
some other promises. But notice the then God gathers, and
then he sprinkles them. That that means, I think, among
other things, giving them the Holy Spirit when they when
they become saved. And in chapter 37, starting out in
(27:40):
verse one and going through verse ten, and after that, um,
you have the vision of the dry bones in the valley.
And Ezekiel sees this vision and all these bones start
to get connected. And and what does it say? It
says in verse eight of Ezekiel 37, I looked, and behold,
sinews were on them, on the bones, and flesh grew,
(28:01):
and skin covered them, but there was no breath in them.
I think what's happening here is what's being depicted is
a regathering of Israel to their own land, but in
a state lacking spiritual life. Then he said to me
in verse nine, prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man,
and say to the breath, thus says the Lord God,
(28:23):
come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these,
so that these slain, so that they come to life.
And it goes on there, and it talks about how
I'm going to put my spirit within you. And I
will place you in your own land, verses 13 and 14.
And so what you have here is a regathering of
Israel as a political entity, as a national and ethnic entity,
(28:45):
as a religious entity. Um, but in an unsafe state.
So Israel has a right to be there in the land.
That's a fulfillment of prophecy. And later, um, all Israel
will be saved. Romans 1126. So that's how I see it.
Just the present, um, secular nation of Israel have a
(29:05):
right to the land, according to the Bible. It most
certainly does.
S2 (29:11):
God did indeed bring them back. I think the reason
this has come up, you know, there are people on
TV and other places doing interviews and they're they're basically
trying to say that Israel somehow is unworthy of our support.
There's this accusation, this false accusation of genocide. And I
wrote a blog post at Michael. Org just recently about
(29:36):
Israel is not committing genocide. That's one of the worst
libels that you'll read about or or slander that you'll hear.
It's just nothing but a blood libel. Um, and so
that's one reason. But also, you know, and Michael's right,
there's this prophecy that God's going to regather the people
and ultimately they will believe. And so that's happened. And
(29:58):
then I think this is important that God gave promises
to the people, the Jewish people, the people of Israel,
the Hebrews, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob. And part of that was
the land, and he promised it to them. And now
people say, well, this Israel is different than that biblical Israel. Well,
think about this. It's the same people. And then under
(30:21):
the Kingdom of David, the Kingdom of Solomon, the monarchy
that was the nation state when it was called Israel,
the nation state of the Jewish people. What do we
have today? The nation state of the Jewish people. Is
it identical? No. That was a monarchy. This is a democracy.
That was a theocracy. This is secular, a secular state.
(30:44):
But still it is the nation state of the Jewish people.
The very promises that Paul says are irrevocable in Romans
1128 and 29, and that that includes the land promise.
These belong to Israel. And so it makes perfect sense
for believers, not for political reasons, but for theological reasons,
to say, we're going to stand with the people of God,
(31:07):
that God, this national, this ethnic group of people who
God has brought to this land, and we're going to
take our stand with them and bless them. Just as
Genesis 12 three says, we ought to.
S1 (31:21):
The flag, or raising up an Israeli flag at a church,
or even an American flag for that matter. What do
you think about that, Doctor Redlich?
S2 (31:32):
With me? Well, I've led a congregation. I planted it
on Long Island, and we had an American flag and
an Israeli flag. So why would I do that? It
wasn't for any other reasons other than I wanted to
be a good citizen, as Romans 13 calls me to be.
And that's why I had an American flag. And that
was not political, but really trying to live out our
(31:53):
faithfulness to our nation. And then, on the other hand,
because of our my commitment that God made these promises
to the the God of Israel gave the land of
Israel to the people of Israel because of that, that
flag that represented that promise. That's why we, for theological reasons,
flew that flag.
S1 (32:15):
And I. The only thing I disagree with you is
that you weren't on Long Island. You were on Long Island,
Long Island, Long Island, Mike Vining. Add to that.
S4 (32:25):
Um, no, I. Michael's got that. I think he's.
S5 (32:29):
Got it.
S4 (32:30):
Solid. The Israeli flag, we put it up. It's just
to show good evangelical support for the nation of Israel,
which we're supposed to show given Genesis chapter 12, verses
one through three.
S1 (32:42):
Greg. Thank you.
S2 (32:43):
We flew the Israeli flag in front of Moody Bible
Institute after ten over seven. Uh, I was grateful for that.
S1 (32:50):
Eddie is in Chicago. Eddie, what's your question for the
two Michaels?
S5 (32:56):
Hi. Yeah.
S8 (32:57):
So my question is, it has to fall into the
subject of ill gotten gains. Um, if, uh, you come
across some gun gains, I shouldn't. I shouldn't speak it,
but it's not from your works. And then you use
this for a higher purpose as to donating it to
(33:18):
the church or a foundation or something. Is it still
considered sinful games?
S1 (33:25):
So this is not something that something you did wrong,
that you got money for somebody else did something wrong,
and then somehow you got the money?
S8 (33:36):
Yeah.
S1 (33:38):
Okay. Is it okay to donate that to the church
or to to a ministry or to use it for
a higher, a better purpose is what you're saying.
S8 (33:48):
Right. Without it being considered ill gotten gains.
S5 (33:51):
Okay. Got it.
S1 (33:54):
Mike v, doctor who wants.
S5 (33:56):
To take this.
S1 (33:56):
One? Yeah.
S5 (33:57):
Yeah. Um.
S4 (34:00):
What I would say to that, to be very honest
with you, I don't know what I would say if
I were to get a whole bunch of money, Al Capone,
and then turn around and give it to the church.
I guess I would want to ask, why am I
getting money from Al Capone?
S5 (34:13):
And that can't that can't.
S4 (34:15):
Possibly be a good thing, you know? Um, and so
if if, you know, if Eddie comes and gets this
money from a long lost relative who's a bank robber.
But Eddie doesn't know that he was a bank robber.
And then Eddie gets the money, and then he gives it.
You know? I mean, there's a lot of ifs there,
but I suppose if he gets the money from a
(34:36):
dead relative who's a bank robber, and Eddie doesn't know that,
and he gives the money to the church, well, then
it's then that's a that's a wonderful thing. But it
assumes that Eddie doesn't know what's going on.
S1 (34:46):
But Eddie does. Yeah, yeah, and he does know what's
going on. So that that takes it to a different level,
Doctor Redlich.
S2 (34:54):
Okay. When I was a pastor, there was a guy
that started showing up and he had a two aides.
He always had a new every other week. He had
this big fancy Bible or book he was bringing in.
He said that he and his wife had just come
to know the Lord. I said, how come your wife
never comes? She said, he said, well, she's busy. She
works nights Friday and Saturday. Well, I finally went to
(35:15):
his house to try and figure out what in the
world was going on. His wife was a high level,
high paid, highly paid call girl, and they had both
come to know the Lord and she was providing the income.
And he told her that if she quit, she was
from Finland. I believe that he would turn her in
(35:36):
and she would lose her green card and would not
be allowed to work in the United States, and she'd
be kicked out of the country. And boy, I got
to tell you, I kind of lost it with this guy.
S1 (35:47):
Well, that's trafficking right there.
S2 (35:49):
Yeah. It was horrible. I mean, I was just furious. Anyway, uh,
point is, he should not have been using that money. Uh,
and we we actually, he had been giving money to
the congregation. We rejected it and gave it back to her.
And then I said, okay, you've got to get out
(36:11):
of this now. And and she listened to me and
she did. And anyway, it was a big mess. But anyway,
here's the point. Um, there are some cases where you,
if you know, the money is ill gotten, you give
it back to whom you can give it to. If
you know the the if you can put a stop
to the ill gotten gains, you do that, which is
what we wanted to do. Uh, back then. But then,
(36:34):
of course, I'm going to tell you, Luke 19, you
got the story of Zacchaeus. He had some ill gotten gains, right? And, uh, uh,
he said, hurry up. The Lord Jesus said, Zacchaeus, hurry up,
come down. Because today I'm going to stay at your house.
And he went and had a party. And apparently the
food that they ate was obtained by that ill gotten
(36:55):
those ill gotten gains of that tax gatherer. So it
just depends, you know, but I think that the lesson
would be anything we could give back. We give back
anything we can do to stop the ill gotten gains.
We do. I think that's what what the the message
would be.
S5 (37:14):
Well, Mike and and.
S4 (37:15):
And Zacchaeus made restitution.
S2 (37:18):
Exactly.
S4 (37:19):
Maybe, maybe what Eddie needs to do is to find
out who these ill gotten gains were taken from. And
he should return some of the money, if not all
of it, if he can. I mean, maybe, maybe that's
part of the thing to to make this right.
S1 (37:32):
That's what Zacchaeus said to the Lord. Look, I'll give
half of my possessions to the poor, and if I
have extorted anything from anyone, I'll pay back four times
as much. So this is this is repentance. This is
turning around and saying, well, the way that I've been
living is wrong and I want to I'm not doing
this to earn salvation. I'm doing it because you've said
(37:56):
salvation has come to my house, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Okay,
so I got to go back to Eddie. Eddie, what
do you think about all that? What are you going
to do?
S8 (38:06):
Well, it clarified most of it. Yeah. But then I'm also, uh,
questioning the fact of, uh, the word saying that the
enemy will give into your bosom. I don't know how
to interpret that.
S1 (38:21):
Which verse are you talking about? The enemy. I'm not
sure I understand.
S8 (38:26):
I don't remember exactly what book or what verse, but
I'm sure, uh, somewhere in the Old Testament it says
the enemy will give into your bosom.
S5 (38:37):
Okay.
S2 (38:38):
I don't know the verse.
S1 (38:39):
Yeah. But it has something to do with ill gotten gains. Probably.
So we'll do a search on that. We'll take our
final break here, Eddie. God bless you, friend. Thank you
for thank you for asking the question. I think just
Eddie asking the question is a good sign, number one.
And number two, that he doesn't feel like I don't
know if I can go forward with this. I think
(39:01):
you have to listen to that. And we'll hear more
from the two Michaels straight ahead on Moody Radio. Well,
I found the ill gotten gains in Proverbs, but I
couldn't find the bosom part of it. So I think
(39:21):
we're going to move on from here. Unless there's anything
else that the the two Michaels want to say. Okay.
All right. Um, speaking of of Proverbs, uh, I read
in Proverbs 1423, it's my favorite radio verse. There is
profit in all hard work, but endless talk leads only
to poverty. That's what I put over my radio. But
(39:44):
the other in Proverbs 14, the heart knows its own bitterness,
and no outsider shares its in its joy. And I've
always looked at that, and that has always struck me.
And I wonder if there's more to it than what
I'm thinking, what I'm reading into it. The heart knows
its own bitterness, and no outsider shares in its joy.
is that simply saying other people can try to empathize
(40:09):
with you, but nobody knows exactly what is going on
in your own heart and soul.
S2 (40:14):
Michael, what's the reference for that?
S1 (40:17):
1410. Proverbs 1410. Mike v, I got anything to say.
S4 (40:25):
We should ask.
S5 (40:26):
Eva. Yeah.
S2 (40:28):
She's in the car taking the dogs to the vet
right now. So she's listening, shouting into us what it means.
S1 (40:35):
So their ill gotten gains. Heart knows its own bitterness.
Dogs to the vet. All of these. These are keeping
us from answers.
S2 (40:44):
I'm looking at that verse. The heart knows its own bitterness.
No one else understands that. And no outsider shares in
its joy that our bitterness is uniquely ours and we
understand it, and our joy is also uniquely ours, and
we understand it best as well. I think that's what
it's saying, that there's some things that are are so deep,
(41:06):
whether it's good or bad, bitter or joyful, that they
are only fully comprehended by the person experiencing them.
S1 (41:14):
So is that supposed to encourage me in some way then,
or because when I read that I feel I'm alone.
I'm alone with no bitterness. It's my.
S5 (41:24):
Joy.
S2 (41:24):
To temper your expectations. You know, so often people say
people should know how hurt I feel. No. No one
will ever understand that. Or people should be so happy
with me because look how joyful I am. No. No
one will fully comprehend that. Yeah, that's. It's to temper
our expectations of people.
S1 (41:43):
Norma is in Colorado listening on the app today. Thank
you for doing that, Norma. What's your question?
S9 (41:49):
Hello. First of all, I want to say hello to
all of you. Each of you are special in my life.
I have been listening to Chris to your program since
you started. And I went to Israel with Doctor Dolnick
and it was just amazing. I mean, Montrose, doctor. Right? Hi. Hi. So, my.
S2 (42:16):
I remember.
S9 (42:17):
You. Yes. Because you were in Montrose. Mhm. Um, so it's, uh,
it's great to talk to you and I have this question.
It's been, it's been, um, in my heart since last year.
I read the Bible through the year. And then I
encountered this Ezekiel 2013 about, uh, that the Lord calls
(42:43):
me my Sabbath. Um, and, uh, he, uh, had wrath
because they did not, uh, because they profaned the Sabbath.
So as a Christian, uh, how do I do? I
have to keep the Sabbath? And how do I keep it?
S5 (43:05):
Great question.
S2 (43:08):
Well, uh, the, uh. The Sabbath is, uh. If you
look at the book of Exodus, it says that the
Sabbath is the outward sign of the of the law
(43:30):
of Moses. That's what it is. It's the sign of
the law of Moses. And that's in Exodus 35. And
the point is, uh, we are now under the law
of the Messiah, the law of Christ, not the law
of Moses. I believe that's why the Sabbath is the
only command that is not repeated in the New Testament. Uh,
(43:53):
the other nine commandments are. But because we're no longer
under the law of Moses, that's that that commandment is
no longer there. And for us, however, there's a wisdom
principle that we need to live by, which is that
we need a day for physical rest and spiritual renewal.
But Romans 14 Mike woods is the expert on this,
(44:15):
says one man honors one day above another. Another views
them all alike. So we need to take a day.
But it doesn't have to be on Saturday. It can
be any other day. But so the principle remains. However,
it doesn't have to be that day because we are
no longer under the law of Moses. That's the outward
sign of it. That's my quick answer, Mike. How do
(44:36):
you how do you feel?
S4 (44:38):
Well, yeah, I mean, that's you nailed it. Paul says
that that he he adapts his methodology, um, when he's
evangelizing people, he says to those who are without law,
he acts as without law, though not being without the
law of God, but under the law of Christ. Um,
so that I might win those who are without law.
(45:00):
And so, uh, like you said, um, we as Christians
are not obligated to keep the commandments and do the
things specified in the law of Moses. We're not under
the Law of Moses anymore. Um, but we are certainly
under the law of Christ, which I would take at
least partly, is the 639 New Testament imperatives. That's what
I would say is the law of Christ.
S5 (45:20):
Yeah.
S1 (45:21):
Mike V, that's a really good way to to jump
on the back of that. And we're at the end
of our conversation today. I can't believe it. I had
so many more questions. We got some other callers. Norma,
thanks for your call. I think the main thing that
I want to say to Norma, Mike V is don't
look for God to be waiting to zap you for
(45:44):
something like, I think that's one of the fears that
she has. Is God's wrath going to come against me
because I didn't, you know, observe the Sabbath and the
grace and the mercy and the love of God is
is all encompassing. I just wanted to say that we
don't have to worry about him banging us upside the head, right?
S4 (46:07):
Absolutely right. Yeah, worship him, but do it on whatever
day your community does it. And by community, I mean
Christian community. And God will approve.
S5 (46:16):
Yeah.
S1 (46:17):
Well, that's our conversation at the radio backyard fence. Thank you, Mike,
for for coming alongside doctor Nick. You as well. And, uh,
if you didn't get your question answered. Oh, I was
going to ask you, doctor Nick. Um, you had a
you had a ding. I bet that was Eva. We'll, uh,
we'll we'll find out next time whether Eva did Eva
(46:38):
text him and answer to that, and we'll find out
again a lot a long time down the road. Come
on back to see us tomorrow on Chris Fabry live
production of Moody Radio. Ministry of Moody Bible Institute.
Welcome to the daily conversation. We call Chris Fabry Live.
The program from the heart to the heart for the
heart today. It's one of our favorite conversations of the
month when we feature not one, but two guests who
want to talk with you about the Bible and how
to rightly divide the word of truth. I don't guarantee
they will agree on everything, but I do guarantee a
(00:26):
provocative and insightful conversation because it is time for the
two Michaels. And here's the number to call if you
have a question or a comment. (877) 548-3675. This might be
your day to get an answer to some spiritual conundrum.
Get in early today and let's see what these boys
of the Bible will do to enlighten us. The two
Michaels are straight ahead at the radio backyard fence. Let
(00:49):
me thank our team. Ryan McConaughey doing all things technical.
Tricia is in the chair today. Our producer Ananda will
be answering your calls now. Here they are. Those Bible
believing twin sons of different testaments. They put the ci
and disciple the new and hermeneutics, the fish and efficient,
the apt and rapture. I'm talking about open lines. Doctor
Michael Rudnick, who is also professor emeritus of Jewish studies
(01:11):
and Bible at Moody Bible Institute, and his co-editor, The
Ever Faithful of the Moody Bible Commentary. Former pastor of
biblical Research at Harvest Bible Chapel in Elgin, Illinois. Doctor
Michael Vanlandingham I give you friends the two Michaels. Yay! Yeah. Well. Hello, Michaels.
(01:32):
I'm doing.
S2 (01:33):
Great. I'm not sure Mike V can hear you, but
I hear you. Great. So. Okay.
S1 (01:38):
All right, well, I'll just talk.
S2 (01:40):
Good to be with you. I thought you were going
to say I'm the dis and dispensational. That's what I
was waiting on there.
S1 (01:45):
No, you put the pen in dispensationalist. Gotcha. Okay, so, Michael,
I'll start with you, and we're. We'll get Mike V
on here. Um, you heard the program that I did
last Friday on Follow the Way of Good People from
Proverbs chapter two. And you called me or texted me
or something and said something about that. Respond to that.
(02:06):
Follow the way of good people. What were you saying?
S2 (02:09):
Well, I was really struck by it as I was listening. Well,
first of all, Eva had a good verse that defines
what is a good person. And so I thought that
I would mention that, uh, if asked, it's Micah six eight.
What is a good person when you think about that? And, uh,
it says in Micah six eight the following, uh, the
(02:31):
voice of the Lord called, I'm sorry, you, mankind, humanity,
he has told you what is good and what it
is the Lord requires of you to act justly, to
love faithfulness, and to walk humbly with your God. That's
what a good person is, don't you think? Hmm. Uh.
And it's. You did capture that, I think, the way
(02:54):
you described various people When you talked about Don Cole
as being a great example, I think he epitomized Micah
six eight. So, uh, that was there. But then I
thought about this, uh, the word mensch in Yiddish. It's
actually from originally from German. It came into Yiddish. It
means a person of character, dignity, respect, uh, kindness, graciousness
(03:22):
towards others, generosity. It's. And as I was growing up,
it was the word that I was told more than
anything else. Probably because I was heading the wrong direction. Uh,
of be a mensch. You've got to be a mensch.
And one of the most memorable times for me was
when I was in eighth grade. And some guys in
(03:44):
my class brought in mace, a little can of mace,
and they were passing it around and we were all
looking at it, which was something illegal in New York
State to have mace. And just as it came into
my hand and I was looking at it and had
my finger on the trigger, the math teacher in the
class patted me on the shoulder and I got so
scared I squeezed the trigger and sprayed mace right in
(04:08):
my teacher's face. Oh, and I got a lot of trouble.
A lot of trouble. And I remember the the Dean
of discipline was out of school that day, and I
got sent to my homeroom teacher and Mr. Millman, Sheldan Millman.
He reamed me and those other four guys out really badly.
(04:29):
And then he said to the other four guys, you
guys go back to class, you stay ready. Melnick. And
he looked at me and he said, those guys are idiots.
I expect this of them, but I expect more of you, Michael,
than he said. You've got to be a mensch. Do
you know what that is? And I said, yeah, I
(04:49):
know what a mensch is. And he said, well, I
want to see a change from now on. And I
have to say, other than coming to know the Lord
a couple years later, that was one of the first
steps in my life that really made me want to
live in a way that was exemplary, different, uh, the
(05:10):
kind that would be good as as you were describing it.
That was a very interesting experience with Mr. Millman.
S3 (05:19):
I don't think I've ever heard you tell that story.
S1 (05:21):
Mike V have you ever heard that story from Doctor Melnick?
S4 (05:25):
I have not. I just want to check. Can you
guys hear me? Because we've had technical issues. Okay.
S3 (05:30):
You're good.
S4 (05:31):
Yeah. No, I have never heard that story. And I
just want to know what's mace like?
S2 (05:37):
Well, it didn't go in my face, but it sure
made my first year just out of college in the
middle of the year, taking over for my teacher who
went on maternity leave. We had this young 23 year old,
very nerdy math teacher and he couldn't breathe. It was
pretty bad. Well.
S4 (05:59):
I'll bet.
S2 (06:01):
But I got. That's all the trouble I got in.
Although Mr. Millman put a desk right next to his
big teacher's desk in front of the class, and when
I was in homeroom or in English, I had to
sit next to him.
S1 (06:12):
What did your mom or dad say when you got home?
When they heard about this? Or did you tell him?
S2 (06:17):
I did tell them, yeah. Mr. Millman told them he
called them. And this is the, uh. This is a
classic sense of Jewish guilt. Uh, Mr. Millman knew my
parents were both Holocaust survivors. And when he told me
I had to be a mensch, this is what he said.
When I think of all that your parents suffered, you
(06:41):
can't disappoint them by acting this way. You have to
do everything you can to live in a way that's mensch, like,
because you don't want to bring any more sadness to
your parents. And now that was Jewish guilt. And people say, oh,
did you feel terrible that he said that? Yeah, I
felt terrible because he was right. And and it really,
(07:02):
really spoke to me. So I don't feel resentful for
him using guilt like that.
S1 (07:07):
Okay. Doctor Vanlandingham, you have to come clean. Why did
you get sent to the office? You never were sent there,
were you?
S4 (07:15):
Uh, one time, just once. Um, my good friend Charlie
Joy and I rode to our school on our unicycles.
And during lunch, we rode up and down the hallway
on our unicycles. And I got kicked out for the
last half of the day. And bless my mom, she
(07:36):
came up. She got me. She thought it was a
really stupid reason why I got kicked out. She. I mean,
she was more upset at the administration, although she should
have been upset with me. And and she said, you know, Mike,
your dad has enough on his mind. I'm not going
to tell him about this. And I could have. I
could have fallen down and worshiped at her feet. She
was she was being so kind. So. So that was
(07:57):
that was the one time that I recall that I
ever got thrown out of school or, you know, and
got sent to the principal's office. That was a lot
of fun.
S1 (08:05):
Interesting. Well, that could be a whole program with every
guest we have that comes on here. I just ask him,
when were you sent to the principal's office and and
the stories that will follow. But. But today, the two
Michaels are here to ask answer questions. You ask the question,
they will answer the questions about the Bible, the Christian life.
(08:25):
If you want to call right now. I got a
few lines open for you at 87754836750. I have some
questions as well I want to give to them, but
I would love to hear your voice. (877) 548-3675. More with
the two Michaels straight ahead on Moody Radio. Oh, it's
(08:56):
my favorite day of the month. Well, when the two
Michaels come along, it's just like we get together and
we have a good time because we get to open
the Bible and we get to ask questions of the
text and of each other. And I got one here
from Facebook. I'm going to open the phone lines. (877) 548-3675.
(09:17):
But Lisa said this on Facebook I believe Jesus died
for every human. Though God knows, not all will receive Christ.
Did Jesus die for Judas, one of the two sons
of perdition? The Bible speaks of the Bible says he
died once for all, but we must repent and live.
It's our choice. What do you understand biblically about this?
(09:40):
So now I turn to the two Michaels and they
might have a disagreement about this. Or you said, Michael,
that you come at this from maybe a couple of
different perspectives. So let's start with you.
S2 (09:51):
With me. I believe that the when it says, For
God so loved the world that he gave his only
begotten son, it means that when Jesus died, he died
for the whole world, making atonement sufficient for everyone, but
only efficient for those who will, who are elect or
who will believe. So I think his death was sufficient
(10:15):
for the forgiveness of Judas. But Judas was, uh, rebellious
to the point that he would never believe and not elect,
and therefore it wouldn't benefit him that Jesus died for him.
It says in first Peter two about false teachers. I
(10:36):
think this is interesting because they are, uh, they're clearly
lost people because they commit apostasy. And so a person
who commits apostasy. A false teacher who commits apostasy is
someone that is in second Peter two that that kind
of person is lost. It's not like they lose their salvation.
(10:57):
They're lost. And it says in second Peter two that
these lost, these false prophets, these false teachers, they will
secretly bring in destructive heresies, denying the master who redeemed them,
who bought them. And so he redeemed them. But they
or provided the atonement he bought them. But their rebellion,
(11:21):
their unwillingness to believe, makes them deny that. And I
think that would be true of Judas as well.
S1 (11:28):
Okay. Mike V.
S4 (11:30):
Um, yeah. I mean, Michael and I really aren't very
far apart on this. Um, the best Calvinists will maintain
that limited atonement, uh, means that the death of Christ
is powerful enough. and wide enough to be sufficient for
everybody who has ever lived. But it is efficient that
(11:52):
is applied to only those who actually believe. And so
now you get into the questions related to, you know,
what's what's the ultimate goal of the of the atoning
death of Jesus. If he dies for the sins of
the world and the whole world doesn't trust him, then
there's dual punishment for their sins. That is, Christ died
(12:14):
for their sins, and then they die. And they have
to be punished for their sins as well. There's also
the argument that says that Jesus's death then is wasted
if everybody is not saved. Um, if he dies for everybody,
but not everybody is saved. And so, you know, Judas
is an interesting guy, and I've been trying to find it.
And I have to confess, I'm not able to do so.
(12:35):
But I think it talks in John's gospel that Judas
was actually, uh, sort of destined for, for punishment that
he was never part of Jesus's followers. And so, um,
did Jesus die for him? Well, if Jesus knew that
Judas was not actually one of his followers and was
predestined for judgment, then no, I guess maybe he didn't, um,
(12:58):
die for Judas. So. But that's that's that's coming from
somebody who's probably a little more limited atonement than Michael is.
S1 (13:06):
Yes, but. But what you just said predestined for judgment.
Does God you know, this gets into the theological question
of does God does God create people so he can
send them to hell? And it sounds like what you
said about Judas there is that that's that was what, uh,
(13:26):
the view that you would have. Is that how you.
I don't want to put words in your mouth.
S4 (13:30):
Well, okay. So so here's here's a couple of things. Um,
in Romans chapter nine, the apostle Paul says, um, you
will say to me, then why does he still find fault?
Who resists his will? Does not the potter. Verse 21.
Chapter nine does not the potter that is God have
a right over the clay, that is people to make
(13:52):
from the same lump from humanity one vessel for honorable
use in context salvation, and another for common use. Um,
which I think most, most good Calvinists would say that
that's a reference to double predestination, that God chooses those
who will go to heaven, and he chooses those who
will go to hell. And once upon a time, I
(14:13):
was taught, you know, God chooses those who will be saved,
but the rest he just leaves to the course of nature.
But is God ever a passive God? I'm not sure
that he is. And so, um, I it seems to
me that that you've, you have to wrestle with verses
like that that really seem to point in the direction of, of, um,
(14:35):
people being predestined for being lost. It says the same
thing in first Peter. I'll find the verse. Michael, you
can jump in here if you want while I'm looking.
S2 (14:45):
Well, I probably see it the way that Michael was
taught originally. When I look at first the passage in
Romans nine, it says that, uh, when he speaks about
the vessels that he made, he, he he it says
that he prepared these vessels beforehand for glory. So, God,
(15:09):
it specifically says God did it. But then when it
talks about the objects of wrath prepared for destruction, it
never says that God prepared them for destruction. Uh, it
says that they were prepared for destruction. And it could
be either a middle voice where it is reflexive that
they prepared themselves for destruction, or could very well be
(15:33):
that it's just passive, that it doesn't say who prepared
them for destruction. But I think that I don't want
to go beyond the text. They are prepared for destruction.
I think it's their own behavior, their sin that prepared
them for destruction. And then God in his mercy chooses
some that he prepares to be vessels of his or
objects of his mercy. But, uh, the outcome is going
(15:56):
to be the same. I just want to say that that, uh,
the outcome is the same, that no one would ever
seek God except that God opens our hearts to see him.
S4 (16:06):
Yeah. Let me let me just say a little bit
more about that in the context of Romans chapter nine.
You know, in verse 15, Paul says, referring to Exodus 33, um,
that God's mercy on whom I have mercy, I will
have compassion on whom I have compassion. And in verse 16,
so then it um, the probably the reception of God's grace,
(16:28):
saving grace, it does not depend on the man who
wills or the man who runs, but on God who
has mercy. And then verse 18, so then he has
mercy on whom he desires, and he hardens whom he desires.
He uses Pharaoh as the example. For this reason I
raised you up, Pharaoh, to demonstrate my power in you,
and that my name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth.
I think God chose Pharaoh to be a recipient of
(16:49):
his judgment, and we see that in the text. And
so when we come then to verse 23, verse 22,
vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, if we say that
the people prepare themselves, that's true. But in the context,
the much stronger contextual clue indicates that it's God who
(17:11):
prepares them. And there's different reasons as to why. The
passage I think is passive voice is used here, which
I won't get into because it's a little involved. But, um, yeah.
So I that's how I would take the passage too,
and that, um, this is how God functions. And he
can do this because he is God and we are not.
S1 (17:28):
Yeah. I think Elisa's question is really good, and I
but I would say there's an even better question than this.
and the payment and, you know, did Jesus die for
everyone's sin and only some get it applied to them?
The better question is, why in the world did he
pay for me? Why would he have grace and mercy
(17:52):
for me? And I'm not saying the other questions aren't good,
but I keep coming back to that to to say, oh,
the amazing grace of God. Uh, and that kind of
begs the question of, you know, am I worth something?
Is that why he did that, or did he simply
do it in his mercy for me? Uh, in spite
(18:15):
of my sin, you know, in spite of me, he
paid my sin debt. Michael.
S2 (18:21):
Well, I think it's interesting that there's a verse. I'm
going to go to the part that Michael and I
agree on, that he chose some to be objects of
his mercy. It says in acts 1348, uh, all who
have been appointed to eternal life believed. I don't understand that.
But why did God do that? Why did he die
(18:41):
for me? Why did he die for you? On the
one hand, none of us are worthy. But we do
have great worth to God because we were made in
his image and because we were made in his image.
He paid an infinite, infinite price to redeem us. The
price of his own son. And so I am just
awed by his mercy when I think that he didn't
(19:02):
need to do that. He didn't. Nothing compelled him other
than his love. So. And I think Mike and I
would just jump up and down agreeing with that.
S5 (19:10):
Yeah, yeah. For sure.
S1 (19:13):
All right. Let me go to your calls. (877) 548-3675 with
the two Michaels. Sharon is in Chicago. Hi, Sharon. Go
right ahead.
S6 (19:23):
Hello? Yeah, I'm calling from Chicago, and I, um, have, um. Well,
it's two questions, but it's kind of like, the same, Um,
since the new pope, uh, got installed, um, a lot
of information have been coming through about the Catholic Church.
And I heard that, um, from the Catholic, that, uh,
(19:49):
Mary didn't have any other kids outside of Jesus, although
the Bible said, you know, that, you know, they name
a couple of kids that she had, but they said
that they were close relatives. They were not, uh, Jesus siblings.
S5 (20:09):
Right. So your.
S1 (20:10):
Question is, is that true? Which is true. Right.
S6 (20:14):
Right.
S1 (20:15):
Okay.
S5 (20:16):
Got it.
S1 (20:16):
Michael.
S5 (20:19):
Michael. It's it's a little.
S4 (20:21):
Bit of an argument from silence to say that Mary
had no more children. Uh, the text doesn't say that.
It never says that. Um, it's silent on the question.
But then we do have in the Gospels, uh, the
appearance of Jesus's brother, brothers and two sisters, I believe.
(20:41):
And so it seems to me that the more reasonable
way to understand this is that Mary and Joseph had
more children after Jesus was born. Uh, again, no clear
indication that that was not the case. Although, um, we,
our Catholic friends, want to perpetually argue for the perpetual
virginity of Mary, which I don't I don't think is
(21:04):
a biblical, uh, biblical doctrine at all. And you can't
find it in the text?
S2 (21:10):
Yeah. And Matthew 125, after the the angel comes and
tells Joseph it's okay to marry Mary because she is
a virgin and this is a miracle that she's pregnant.
It said he did not know her intimately or did not.
He kept her a virgin, as I think. How the
old text says it. Uh, he did not know her
intimately until she gave birth to a son. The implication
(21:33):
there being that after Jesus was born, they had a normal,
healthy marriage with children and multiple children. And I know
my Catholic friends want to say, well, the words for
brothers and sisters has to do with extended family, not
the actual siblings of the Lord Jesus. But, uh, I
(21:56):
don't think there's any reason to suspect we don't need
another Redemptoris. We have one sufficiently, the Lord Jesus. And
so Mary, she even says in Luke that that God
is her Redeemer and in her in her Magnificat. She
obviously is someone that's sinful and needs a redeemer herself,
that she gave birth to the son who would redeem her.
S1 (22:17):
And there's there's a lot of differences between Protestant and Catholic,
and that's one of them. That's one of the of
the ways. And then what the church would teach the
Catholic Church would teach that Mary does along with Jesus.
Go ahead.
S2 (22:33):
Can I can I just say something here? My Catholic
friends that want to have Mary as sinless and a
perpetual virgin, they're doing it out of the best motives.
They're not. They're not looking to do anything bad. It's
just they they have such a high view of Mary.
And you know what? I think sometimes we need to
remember that she was one of the most amazing women
ever born. Uh, not a not a perpetual virgin, not
(22:57):
a co-redemptrix. Nothing like that. But she was amazing. You
can't hardly find a person with greater faith and dependence
on God than you will see with Mary getting this responsibility.
It really is amazing.
S5 (23:10):
Agreed. The only exception to that.
S4 (23:13):
I'm sorry. The only exception to that would be Joseph.
S5 (23:17):
Who?
S4 (23:17):
Who married a woman who from external appearances had been
unfaithful to him. He was going to divorce her, but
he was going to do it privately and kindly. And
after they got married, he was not physically intimate with her.
And that man was the kind of man that every
woman ought to be looking for.
S1 (23:36):
Good point. Thanks, Mike. V all right. Susan. Sharon. I'm sorry.
Great question. Greg's in Chattanooga. We'll get the question and
probably won't have time to answer it fully. But, Greg,
what do you want to ask the two Michaels?
S7 (23:50):
Hi. Yeah. Greg from Chattanooga here. Um, I guess after.
I guess the question I have is about, um, after
October 7th, obviously, a lot of folks in the church, um,
were moved by those, uh, by that, by what happened
with Israel. And some, some churches have been starting to
put up the Israeli flag. So I guess the question
to the Michaels are obviously the church. Um, I don't
(24:11):
know what their thoughts are as far as the political
nature of Israel versus the Israel and the Bible. And
how do churches, um, show support and don't don't show support,
don't get involved politically? How do they have wisdom in this?
And a lot of people in the church are kind
of confused about this topic, and it'd be great to
have their insights on how to how to have wisdom
(24:33):
as we approach the political nation of Israel versus the
Israel and the Bible.
S1 (24:40):
I you know, and it's we've got a minute before
we end. And so, you know, I'm going to call
it Greg. That's such a great question. And I had
Doctor Redlich on with me. Uh, it was a couple
of weeks ago, Michael, I think, and we we dealt
with some of this, but I want to hear what
Mike has to say as well. And I'm going to
give you an opportunity to get in on the conversation
and ask your question. We'll deal with Israel when we
(25:02):
come back from a break. Here's the number 877548367518775483675. And
you know what we have for you this month. It's
a great resource for anybody who is taking the Bible seriously.
And that is Colin Smith's book Drive Through the Bible.
(25:24):
It's a 30 day journey. I'd love to send it
to you. It's a game changer because it gives you
a landscape of Scripture. You'll discover how the old and new,
the wisdom literature, the poetry sections, the prophecy section, how
that all comes together. Give a gift of any size
at Chris fabric.org. We'll send it to you. Go to Chris.
(26:03):
This is Chris Fabry live at two Michaels edition today (877) 548-3675.
Greg in Chattanooga called with a really good question about
the confusion in the church about political Israel. Israel in
the Bible, uh, flying the Israeli flag of what are
the two Michaels think about this since we had Doctor
(26:24):
Redlich on a couple of weeks ago. Talked about that.
I'm going to give Mike V the Gentile Mike V
the opportunity to to start out here. Mike, what do
you say?
S5 (26:34):
Right.
S4 (26:35):
I think and Mr. Doctor could take us to a
host of other passages, but I think two passages are
found back to back, Ezekiel 36 and Ezekiel 37 that
indicate that Israel is going to be regathered as a people,
as a nation, um, without actually being right with God,
(26:58):
yet saved in in Ezekiel 36, it says, God is
speaking here through Ezekiel. For I will take you from
the nations and gather you from all the lands, and
bring you into your own land. Then notice that word.
Then I will sprinkle you. I will sprinkle clean water
(27:20):
on you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse
you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.
And it goes on from there. And it says, make
some other promises. But notice the then God gathers, and
then he sprinkles them. That that means, I think, among
other things, giving them the Holy Spirit when they when
they become saved. And in chapter 37, starting out in
(27:40):
verse one and going through verse ten, and after that, um,
you have the vision of the dry bones in the valley.
And Ezekiel sees this vision and all these bones start
to get connected. And and what does it say? It
says in verse eight of Ezekiel 37, I looked, and behold,
sinews were on them, on the bones, and flesh grew,
(28:01):
and skin covered them, but there was no breath in them.
I think what's happening here is what's being depicted is
a regathering of Israel to their own land, but in
a state lacking spiritual life. Then he said to me
in verse nine, prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man,
and say to the breath, thus says the Lord God,
(28:23):
come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these,
so that these slain, so that they come to life.
And it goes on there, and it talks about how
I'm going to put my spirit within you. And I
will place you in your own land, verses 13 and 14.
And so what you have here is a regathering of
Israel as a political entity, as a national and ethnic entity,
(28:45):
as a religious entity. Um, but in an unsafe state.
So Israel has a right to be there in the land.
That's a fulfillment of prophecy. And later, um, all Israel
will be saved. Romans 1126. So that's how I see it.
Just the present, um, secular nation of Israel have a
(29:05):
right to the land, according to the Bible. It most
certainly does.
S2 (29:11):
God did indeed bring them back. I think the reason
this has come up, you know, there are people on
TV and other places doing interviews and they're they're basically
trying to say that Israel somehow is unworthy of our support.
There's this accusation, this false accusation of genocide. And I
wrote a blog post at Michael. Org just recently about
(29:36):
Israel is not committing genocide. That's one of the worst
libels that you'll read about or or slander that you'll hear.
It's just nothing but a blood libel. Um, and so
that's one reason. But also, you know, and Michael's right,
there's this prophecy that God's going to regather the people
and ultimately they will believe. And so that's happened. And
(29:58):
then I think this is important that God gave promises
to the people, the Jewish people, the people of Israel,
the Hebrews, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob. And part of that was
the land, and he promised it to them. And now
people say, well, this Israel is different than that biblical Israel. Well,
think about this. It's the same people. And then under
(30:21):
the Kingdom of David, the Kingdom of Solomon, the monarchy
that was the nation state when it was called Israel,
the nation state of the Jewish people. What do we
have today? The nation state of the Jewish people. Is
it identical? No. That was a monarchy. This is a democracy.
That was a theocracy. This is secular, a secular state.
(30:44):
But still it is the nation state of the Jewish people.
The very promises that Paul says are irrevocable in Romans
1128 and 29, and that that includes the land promise.
These belong to Israel. And so it makes perfect sense
for believers, not for political reasons, but for theological reasons,
to say, we're going to stand with the people of God,
(31:07):
that God, this national, this ethnic group of people who
God has brought to this land, and we're going to
take our stand with them and bless them. Just as
Genesis 12 three says, we ought to.
S1 (31:21):
The flag, or raising up an Israeli flag at a church,
or even an American flag for that matter. What do
you think about that, Doctor Redlich?
S2 (31:32):
With me? Well, I've led a congregation. I planted it
on Long Island, and we had an American flag and
an Israeli flag. So why would I do that? It
wasn't for any other reasons other than I wanted to
be a good citizen, as Romans 13 calls me to be.
And that's why I had an American flag. And that
was not political, but really trying to live out our
(31:53):
faithfulness to our nation. And then, on the other hand,
because of our my commitment that God made these promises
to the the God of Israel gave the land of
Israel to the people of Israel because of that, that
flag that represented that promise. That's why we, for theological reasons,
flew that flag.
S1 (32:15):
And I. The only thing I disagree with you is
that you weren't on Long Island. You were on Long Island,
Long Island, Long Island, Mike Vining. Add to that.
S4 (32:25):
Um, no, I. Michael's got that. I think he's.
S5 (32:29):
Got it.
S4 (32:30):
Solid. The Israeli flag, we put it up. It's just
to show good evangelical support for the nation of Israel,
which we're supposed to show given Genesis chapter 12, verses
one through three.
S1 (32:42):
Greg. Thank you.
S2 (32:43):
We flew the Israeli flag in front of Moody Bible
Institute after ten over seven. Uh, I was grateful for that.
S1 (32:50):
Eddie is in Chicago. Eddie, what's your question for the
two Michaels?
S5 (32:56):
Hi. Yeah.
S8 (32:57):
So my question is, it has to fall into the
subject of ill gotten gains. Um, if, uh, you come
across some gun gains, I shouldn't. I shouldn't speak it,
but it's not from your works. And then you use
this for a higher purpose as to donating it to
(33:18):
the church or a foundation or something. Is it still
considered sinful games?
S1 (33:25):
So this is not something that something you did wrong,
that you got money for somebody else did something wrong,
and then somehow you got the money?
S8 (33:36):
Yeah.
S1 (33:38):
Okay. Is it okay to donate that to the church
or to to a ministry or to use it for
a higher, a better purpose is what you're saying.
S8 (33:48):
Right. Without it being considered ill gotten gains.
S5 (33:51):
Okay. Got it.
S1 (33:54):
Mike v, doctor who wants.
S5 (33:56):
To take this.
S1 (33:56):
One? Yeah.
S5 (33:57):
Yeah. Um.
S4 (34:00):
What I would say to that, to be very honest
with you, I don't know what I would say if
I were to get a whole bunch of money, Al Capone,
and then turn around and give it to the church.
I guess I would want to ask, why am I
getting money from Al Capone?
S5 (34:13):
And that can't that can't.
S4 (34:15):
Possibly be a good thing, you know? Um, and so
if if, you know, if Eddie comes and gets this
money from a long lost relative who's a bank robber.
But Eddie doesn't know that he was a bank robber.
And then Eddie gets the money, and then he gives it.
You know? I mean, there's a lot of ifs there,
but I suppose if he gets the money from a
(34:36):
dead relative who's a bank robber, and Eddie doesn't know that,
and he gives the money to the church, well, then
it's then that's a that's a wonderful thing. But it
assumes that Eddie doesn't know what's going on.
S1 (34:46):
But Eddie does. Yeah, yeah, and he does know what's
going on. So that that takes it to a different level,
Doctor Redlich.
S2 (34:54):
Okay. When I was a pastor, there was a guy
that started showing up and he had a two aides.
He always had a new every other week. He had
this big fancy Bible or book he was bringing in.
He said that he and his wife had just come
to know the Lord. I said, how come your wife
never comes? She said, he said, well, she's busy. She
works nights Friday and Saturday. Well, I finally went to
(35:15):
his house to try and figure out what in the
world was going on. His wife was a high level,
high paid, highly paid call girl, and they had both
come to know the Lord and she was providing the income.
And he told her that if she quit, she was
from Finland. I believe that he would turn her in
(35:36):
and she would lose her green card and would not
be allowed to work in the United States, and she'd
be kicked out of the country. And boy, I got
to tell you, I kind of lost it with this guy.
S1 (35:47):
Well, that's trafficking right there.
S2 (35:49):
Yeah. It was horrible. I mean, I was just furious. Anyway, uh,
point is, he should not have been using that money. Uh,
and we we actually, he had been giving money to
the congregation. We rejected it and gave it back to her.
And then I said, okay, you've got to get out
(36:11):
of this now. And and she listened to me and
she did. And anyway, it was a big mess. But anyway,
here's the point. Um, there are some cases where you,
if you know, the money is ill gotten, you give
it back to whom you can give it to. If
you know the the if you can put a stop
to the ill gotten gains, you do that, which is
what we wanted to do. Uh, back then. But then,
(36:34):
of course, I'm going to tell you, Luke 19, you
got the story of Zacchaeus. He had some ill gotten gains, right? And, uh, uh,
he said, hurry up. The Lord Jesus said, Zacchaeus, hurry up,
come down. Because today I'm going to stay at your house.
And he went and had a party. And apparently the
food that they ate was obtained by that ill gotten
(36:55):
those ill gotten gains of that tax gatherer. So it
just depends, you know, but I think that the lesson
would be anything we could give back. We give back
anything we can do to stop the ill gotten gains.
We do. I think that's what what the the message
would be.
S5 (37:14):
Well, Mike and and.
S4 (37:15):
And Zacchaeus made restitution.
S2 (37:18):
Exactly.
S4 (37:19):
Maybe, maybe what Eddie needs to do is to find
out who these ill gotten gains were taken from. And
he should return some of the money, if not all
of it, if he can. I mean, maybe, maybe that's
part of the thing to to make this right.
S1 (37:32):
That's what Zacchaeus said to the Lord. Look, I'll give
half of my possessions to the poor, and if I
have extorted anything from anyone, I'll pay back four times
as much. So this is this is repentance. This is
turning around and saying, well, the way that I've been
living is wrong and I want to I'm not doing
this to earn salvation. I'm doing it because you've said
(37:56):
salvation has come to my house, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Okay,
so I got to go back to Eddie. Eddie, what
do you think about all that? What are you going
to do?
S8 (38:06):
Well, it clarified most of it. Yeah. But then I'm also, uh,
questioning the fact of, uh, the word saying that the
enemy will give into your bosom. I don't know how
to interpret that.
S1 (38:21):
Which verse are you talking about? The enemy. I'm not
sure I understand.
S8 (38:26):
I don't remember exactly what book or what verse, but
I'm sure, uh, somewhere in the Old Testament it says
the enemy will give into your bosom.
S5 (38:37):
Okay.
S2 (38:38):
I don't know the verse.
S1 (38:39):
Yeah. But it has something to do with ill gotten gains. Probably.
So we'll do a search on that. We'll take our
final break here, Eddie. God bless you, friend. Thank you
for thank you for asking the question. I think just
Eddie asking the question is a good sign, number one.
And number two, that he doesn't feel like I don't
know if I can go forward with this. I think
(39:01):
you have to listen to that. And we'll hear more
from the two Michaels straight ahead on Moody Radio. Well,
I found the ill gotten gains in Proverbs, but I
couldn't find the bosom part of it. So I think
(39:21):
we're going to move on from here. Unless there's anything
else that the the two Michaels want to say. Okay.
All right. Um, speaking of of Proverbs, uh, I read
in Proverbs 1423, it's my favorite radio verse. There is
profit in all hard work, but endless talk leads only
to poverty. That's what I put over my radio. But
(39:44):
the other in Proverbs 14, the heart knows its own bitterness,
and no outsider shares its in its joy. And I've
always looked at that, and that has always struck me.
And I wonder if there's more to it than what
I'm thinking, what I'm reading into it. The heart knows
its own bitterness, and no outsider shares in its joy.
is that simply saying other people can try to empathize
(40:09):
with you, but nobody knows exactly what is going on
in your own heart and soul.
S2 (40:14):
Michael, what's the reference for that?
S1 (40:17):
1410. Proverbs 1410. Mike v, I got anything to say.
S4 (40:25):
We should ask.
S5 (40:26):
Eva. Yeah.
S2 (40:28):
She's in the car taking the dogs to the vet
right now. So she's listening, shouting into us what it means.
S1 (40:35):
So their ill gotten gains. Heart knows its own bitterness.
Dogs to the vet. All of these. These are keeping
us from answers.
S2 (40:44):
I'm looking at that verse. The heart knows its own bitterness.
No one else understands that. And no outsider shares in
its joy that our bitterness is uniquely ours and we
understand it, and our joy is also uniquely ours, and
we understand it best as well. I think that's what
it's saying, that there's some things that are are so deep,
(41:06):
whether it's good or bad, bitter or joyful, that they
are only fully comprehended by the person experiencing them.
S1 (41:14):
So is that supposed to encourage me in some way then,
or because when I read that I feel I'm alone.
I'm alone with no bitterness. It's my.
S5 (41:24):
Joy.
S2 (41:24):
To temper your expectations. You know, so often people say
people should know how hurt I feel. No. No one
will ever understand that. Or people should be so happy
with me because look how joyful I am. No. No
one will fully comprehend that. Yeah, that's. It's to temper
our expectations of people.
S1 (41:43):
Norma is in Colorado listening on the app today. Thank
you for doing that, Norma. What's your question?
S9 (41:49):
Hello. First of all, I want to say hello to
all of you. Each of you are special in my life.
I have been listening to Chris to your program since
you started. And I went to Israel with Doctor Dolnick
and it was just amazing. I mean, Montrose, doctor. Right? Hi. Hi. So, my.
S2 (42:16):
I remember.
S9 (42:17):
You. Yes. Because you were in Montrose. Mhm. Um, so it's, uh,
it's great to talk to you and I have this question.
It's been, it's been, um, in my heart since last year.
I read the Bible through the year. And then I
encountered this Ezekiel 2013 about, uh, that the Lord calls
(42:43):
me my Sabbath. Um, and, uh, he, uh, had wrath
because they did not, uh, because they profaned the Sabbath.
So as a Christian, uh, how do I do? I
have to keep the Sabbath? And how do I keep it?
S5 (43:05):
Great question.
S2 (43:08):
Well, uh, the, uh. The Sabbath is, uh. If you
look at the book of Exodus, it says that the
Sabbath is the outward sign of the of the law
(43:30):
of Moses. That's what it is. It's the sign of
the law of Moses. And that's in Exodus 35. And
the point is, uh, we are now under the law
of the Messiah, the law of Christ, not the law
of Moses. I believe that's why the Sabbath is the
only command that is not repeated in the New Testament. Uh,
(43:53):
the other nine commandments are. But because we're no longer
under the law of Moses, that's that that commandment is
no longer there. And for us, however, there's a wisdom
principle that we need to live by, which is that
we need a day for physical rest and spiritual renewal.
But Romans 14 Mike woods is the expert on this,
(44:15):
says one man honors one day above another. Another views
them all alike. So we need to take a day.
But it doesn't have to be on Saturday. It can
be any other day. But so the principle remains. However,
it doesn't have to be that day because we are
no longer under the law of Moses. That's the outward
sign of it. That's my quick answer, Mike. How do
(44:36):
you how do you feel?
S4 (44:38):
Well, yeah, I mean, that's you nailed it. Paul says
that that he he adapts his methodology, um, when he's
evangelizing people, he says to those who are without law,
he acts as without law, though not being without the
law of God, but under the law of Christ. Um,
so that I might win those who are without law.
(45:00):
And so, uh, like you said, um, we as Christians
are not obligated to keep the commandments and do the
things specified in the law of Moses. We're not under
the Law of Moses anymore. Um, but we are certainly
under the law of Christ, which I would take at
least partly, is the 639 New Testament imperatives. That's what
I would say is the law of Christ.
S5 (45:20):
Yeah.
S1 (45:21):
Mike V, that's a really good way to to jump
on the back of that. And we're at the end
of our conversation today. I can't believe it. I had
so many more questions. We got some other callers. Norma,
thanks for your call. I think the main thing that
I want to say to Norma, Mike V is don't
look for God to be waiting to zap you for
(45:44):
something like, I think that's one of the fears that
she has. Is God's wrath going to come against me
because I didn't, you know, observe the Sabbath and the
grace and the mercy and the love of God is
is all encompassing. I just wanted to say that we
don't have to worry about him banging us upside the head, right?
S4 (46:07):
Absolutely right. Yeah, worship him, but do it on whatever
day your community does it. And by community, I mean
Christian community. And God will approve.
S5 (46:16):
Yeah.
S1 (46:17):
Well, that's our conversation at the radio backyard fence. Thank you, Mike,
for for coming alongside doctor Nick. You as well. And, uh,
if you didn't get your question answered. Oh, I was
going to ask you, doctor Nick. Um, you had a
you had a ding. I bet that was Eva. We'll, uh,
we'll we'll find out next time whether Eva did Eva
(46:38):
text him and answer to that, and we'll find out
again a lot a long time down the road. Come
on back to see us tomorrow on Chris Fabry live
production of Moody Radio. Ministry of Moody Bible Institute.
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