July 10, 2025 • 46 mins
If you're going through a season of unwanted changes and uncertainty in your life, don't miss Chris Fabry Live. Pastor and author Marco David is a former Chicago police officer. From the street to the pulpit, he's seen what he calls "collateral blessings." God is in the business of transforming life's most difficult trials into redemptive surprises. Hear the encouragement on Chris Fabry Live.
Resource mentioned:
Collateral Blessings: How Jesus Brings Unexpected Blessings in Uncertain Times by Marco David
July thank you gift:
Drive Through the Bible by Colin S. Smith
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:06):
You've heard of collateral damage. Usually you hear that term
in some kind of military action. A bomb is targeted
to take out weapons or some terrorist encampment. And there
were civilians. They were unintentionally wounded or perhaps killed. That
was collateral damage. Today at the radio backyard fence, I
(00:28):
want you to hear from a former Chicago police officer
who's now a pastor. And the stories he has to
share detail the collateral blessings God gives us. He believes
that Jesus providentially brings unexpected blessings in uncertain times. Is
that what you're going through right now? Are you going
(00:48):
through a season of unwanted change and upheaval? Maybe a diagnosis.
Something you didn't choose but is right there on your
doorstep today? Or perhaps you made some bad decisions in life.
Unwise choices. Can God reveal his mercy and grace? Right here,
right now. Don't miss the conversation with pastor. Pastor Marco David,
(01:10):
straight ahead at the radio backyard fence. First, a thank
you to Ryan McConaughey. Doing all things technical. Tricia is
our producer in the chair. Anthony will be answering your calls.
And a big thank you to our friends and partners. Yes,
the summer is a little slower. I know that a
lot of vacation folks are, uh, enjoying some of that time,
(01:31):
but it's kind of slow as far as support goes.
And that's why I wanted to give a great thank
you this month. I think it's going to help you
understand the Bible better as a whole. I hear this
a lot. You know, the God of the Old Testament
seems kind of angry. He seems kind of mean to me.
But Jesus is so loving. So I stay in the
New Testament. How does how do those fit together? How
does all that and throw in Psalms and Proverbs and
(01:53):
you have a lot of big question marks. Well, Pastor
Colin Smith wrote a little book called Drive Through the Bible.
It's a 30 day journey. I would love to send
you a copy. And the collateral blessing of that is,
you see how the old and the new fit together
as you drive through it. You don't take one step
(02:13):
at a time. You go through the whole thing. And
it's our thank you right now, if you give a
gift of any size at Chris Fabry Live or call
86695 Faber, you can give a one time gift, or
you can give a gift each month and get my
back fence post. We send this out every Thursday. Sent
a really good one, really encouraging one out today. So
(02:35):
if you don't get that and you'd like to become
a back fence, partner with us and you get access
to all of the materials that we send, like this
book by Colin Smith, drive Through the Bible (866) 953-2279 or
go to Chris Fabry lives. And thanks for your support
here in the month of July. Marco David is a
(02:58):
retired Chicago police officer and the lead pastor of the
Historic Midwest Bible Church in Chicago. He serves as a
regional director for the Six four fellowship, which is a
ministry that serves pastors and as a renewal coach. By
God's grace and his amazing providence, he is a two
time cancer survivor. You're going to hear more about that.
(03:19):
He's married to his high school sweetheart, Elizabeth, and they
have four sons who are all honorably serving as Chicago
police officers. Is that true, Marco?
S2 (03:30):
Yes it is. Yes it is. I often say I
told them too many war stories and not enough Bible stories.
S1 (03:37):
Well, and that is, you know, that's a full time job.
It's a dangerous job. It's one that, you know, in
the in the last couple of weeks has been really
a difficult one because of all the violence that we see.
The summertime kind of happens. So you, your wife and
your family was. They were worried about you when you'd
(03:58):
go to work every day for those 20 years. And
now it's your turn, right?
S2 (04:01):
Yeah. It keeps us on our knees. Keeps us praying
for their protection.
S1 (04:06):
There you.
S2 (04:06):
Go.
S1 (04:07):
Okay, so you were an officer for 20 years. Did
you always. Is that what you wanted to do when
you were a little kid?
S2 (04:13):
You know, I came. I became interested in being a
police officer in a career development course in high school
on law enforcement, and it intrigued me, and I wanted
to serve in that way. I thought that I could
make a difference in that way.
S1 (04:31):
Were you able to?
S2 (04:33):
I believe I did, yeah. And, uh, it was, uh,
a unique experience, a, um, and I believe that being
a police officer, not only was I able to, you know,
to serve and protect and make a difference, but it
gave me a unique perspective. I think it helped me
to be a better pastor, too. two.
S1 (04:54):
Okay. I want to get to that. I want to
find out more about that. Do you remember if I
asked you. Because I asked a friend who was a
firefighter who's retired? I said, remember your worst day? What
was your worst day? And he told me the story,
and he got about the middle of the story, and
he couldn't keep going because it was so emotional to him.
So worst day. Hardest day as an officer. What was it?
S2 (05:18):
Yes. You know, I had a few, maybe more than
a few. But, um, I recall in the mid 90s, um,
getting a call of a drive by shooting on, on
Division Street near the Homewood Park area. And when, when
we when we arrived, my partner and I arrived. There
(05:39):
was three teenagers shot laying on the sidewalk. And I
remember them fighting for their lives. And, um, it really
struck me. And emotionally, you know, as a police officer,
you have to try to control your emotions so you
can do your job. But I actually had to go
(05:59):
and sit in my squad car for a minute and
catch my breath. Yeah.
S1 (06:05):
You know, it strikes me that that's the same thing
that's going on in Texas with the recovery now with
the floods. And I see these first responders that are
out there or those who are, you know, clearing debris
and looking for people who are are missing. And you
can just see that they have to kind of stop
(06:26):
and process the things that they're seeing and what they're
walking through. The same thing that you did.
S2 (06:32):
Yes. And being a police officer, being a police officer
can be very challenging because you have a front row
seat to a lot of hurt, a lot of pain,
domestic violence, poverty, evil. And, um, it could it could
affect you deeply. And so how do you cope with that?
(06:53):
How do you control your emotions so you can do
your job and you can do that in a, in
a in a healthy way. But you can also do
that in an unhealthy way. So it's a very challenging
thing to to be a police officer. And, and again,
have that front row seat and all that pain.
S1 (07:10):
So you were you were going for 30 years. You
were going for the full pension and retire and you
went to 20. What happened?
S2 (07:18):
Yes. Uh, well, I was, uh, I was an associate
pastor at Midwest Bible Church, uh, at the time. And, and, uh,
in 2013, the senior pastor, my senior pastor, resigned, and
I became the, the interim pastor. And there was a
(07:38):
search committee that was looking for a pastor. And my
name kept coming up. But again, I had other plans.
You know, I had planned to to retire with a
full pension and good benefits, but my name kept coming up.
And after two years of being a bi vocational pastor,
the church called me. And I knew after two years
of trying to do it by vocationally, that I couldn't
do it like that anymore, that I needed to to
(08:01):
go full time. And that was a big decision. But, uh,
but God saw me through it, and a lot of
collateral blessings came from it as well that I didn't
foresee that we'll talk about, I'm sure.
S1 (08:12):
Okay. Okay. Let's let's talk about that term. Where did
you first hear collateral blessings?
S2 (08:19):
You know, um, a few people were were they know
my story. They know my cancer journey. I'm a two time,
two time cancer survivor. Survivor. The second time it was
terminal cancer. And God brought me through that. And it's
an amazing story of God's providence. And so I was
being encouraged to write a book. And, uh, there was other,
other unique providential things that happened, uh, that that weaved,
(08:44):
weaved God's grace, that impacted other people's lives and this
whole story. And but I really didn't know how to
put all that together. I had all these testimonies, you know,
I knew what God did for me and how God
brought me through all that. And I just didn't quite
know how to put it together. And someone who actually
was instrumental in how God brought me to to recover
(09:07):
from cancer. I was riding in a car with him.
His name is Kathleen. He's a pilot, and we were
just talking about things and he used that word collateral blessings. And, uh,
just as.
S1 (09:18):
Soon as you heard it.
S2 (09:19):
As soon as I.
S1 (09:20):
Heard.
S2 (09:20):
It, it just something clicked and I felt like, this
is how all this is going to come together, how
I'm going to put all these stories together. And, and
because God is a God of, of of of providence and,
and he orchestrates and works in our lives and weaves
(09:41):
blessings into our lives even through pain. And and that's that.
That's my story. And and and just thinking and reflecting upon.
What does Collateral Blessing actually mean is how God led
me to put the put the book together.
S1 (09:57):
As I went through. And you have so many great
stories in here. I want to get to some of them.
But the as I went through, the thing that screamed
at me was, uh, I, I want to control the blessing,
you know, I want to earn the blessing I want
to do. Or if there's somebody that, you know, I
(10:18):
want to, uh, come to Christ. I want to do
the things that will make that happen. And what your
book tells me is you don't control the blessings God does.
And so let me take a break. We'll come back.
It's our featured resource today. Collateral Blessings how Jesus providentially
(10:39):
Brings Unexpected Blessings in Uncertain Times by Pastor Marco David.
The foreword is written by Daniel Henderson. And if you
go to Chris Fabry live.org. Click through today's information. You'll
see it right there. Collateral blessings. More straight ahead. We're
(11:05):
talking about collateral blessings today at the radio backyard fence.
Pastor Marco David is with us. The question on Facebook
is have you found unexpected good in something you saw
as bad? And there's some responses there. You can answer
there or call us (877) 548-3675. If at any point you
(11:27):
have a question, you have a comment, or you have
a life story, a collateral blessing that you've experienced. (877) 548-3675.
At the website Featured Resource Today. Click through today's information
right there and you'll see the book Collateral blessings that
Marco has put together. Okay, so on page 18, page 19,
(11:50):
actually a collateral blessing would be the unintended and unanticipated
good that occurs while embarked upon an altogether different mission. Uh,
then a little further, collateral blessings are the unexpected, continuing
ripple effects of God's providential and redemptive blessings coming through
(12:12):
answers to prayer. What's more, they involve decisions we make
in faith and hardships we may have to endure, which
God works out for good. So it's it sounds to
me that collateral blessings come to us when we have
this posture of surrender. You can't pray unless you're surrendered to,
(12:35):
in some sense, some way. You can't pray from the
heart unless you really are surrendered to God's will. So
we don't control the collateral blessings. Talk more about that.
S2 (12:48):
Yeah, that's a great topic because I didn't want the
book to make people believe that there's this formula that
if you follow it, that everything's going to work out
perfectly in this life and you're going to experience blessings
and prosperity and. And I didn't want to to communicate that.
(13:09):
But here's a simpler definition of collateral blessings, God's redemptive
surprises that come through faith and trials, uh, or the
unforeseen gifts of grace. God weaves through obedience and suffering. Uh,
so a collateral blessing can can be that that in
(13:29):
a difficult time, God delivers us from the difficult trial
that we're going through in ways that we never saw coming. Uh,
I had terminal cancer, and I had pretty much resigned
to the fact that I was going to go be
with Jesus in a few months. And God turned that
God turned that around.
S1 (13:51):
And that was right after you became a pastor to.
Was it?
S2 (13:55):
Right, right, right.
S1 (13:56):
See, now that, you know, if you give up the
the pension, I mean, you had 20 years, so you
had something to say for your work. But if you
give that up and God will serve you and then
you get cancer, it's like, wait, there's something wrong here.
S2 (14:09):
That's right, that's right. And so six months after I
retired from the Chicago Police Department, I retired early, uh,
to be the full time pastor of Midwest Bible Church.
I was diagnosed with stage two cancer. And, um. And
so that was six months after I retired. And, um,
(14:31):
you know, it was a little confusing, but, uh, I
was anxious about serving the Lord and getting God's work done. So, uh,
at the time, I was like, what do I have
to do? What chemotherapy do I have to do? What
surgery do I have to do? I need to get
I need to get past this because I have work
for the Lord to do. Um, and, um, and I
(14:52):
did seemingly get past it. And then two years later,
it came back with a vengeance. Uh, it had metastasized
to my liver. I had a tumor in my duodenum.
Part of your stomach. And also on the head of
my pancreas. And that was a grave diagnosis. And that
hit me a little bit differently. And, uh, again, um,
(15:16):
there was a lot of grieving, a lot of sorrow.
It was one of the hardest, darkest times, uh, in
my life. And again, you know, going back to this
whole thing of what a collateral blessing is, it can
be that God delivers you in a way that you
didn't expect. And I didn't expect to be delivered from
terminal cancer, to be honest with you. Um, but it
(15:37):
could also be the grace that God gives you in
a very difficult time, like he did for Paul. When
Paul prayed, pleading to God to deliver him from this
thorn in the flesh. And we don't know exactly what
it was, but we can speculate. And God didn't deliver him.
But God did give him a grace to endure it,
(15:58):
a grace that kept him dependent upon God and useful
in his hands. And and sometimes the collateral blessing is
that God refines us, uh, through through that trial and
brings us to a deeper understanding of who he is
and of his love and the security that is found
in him.
S1 (16:16):
And we realize what we're really looking for was not
what we were looking for, but for him, you know,
his presence and, and and so if you're going, that's
something that you're going through today, you know, you have
a diagnosis or there's there's just some weight or heaviness
on your life. I want you to listen through this prism.
(16:36):
What might be God's redemptive surprise in the middle of
the struggle that you're in right now that you're not
even looking for or anticipating? And again, this is surrender
I can't control. See, that's what I was talking with
a friend earlier today, and he was coming to the
studio and he had a flat tire. You know, he's like,
(16:58):
I got to get air in this tire. And he
was looking around. And so what I want to happen
when I get a flat tire is I want some,
you know, the the person who helps me, me out.
I want to lead them to Jesus or, you know,
do some kind of redemptive thing. Or if they were
down on their luck and they helped me, and then
I was able to give them money that helped them. And,
(17:19):
you know, all I try to do it. I try
to fix it. Work it out. And what he realized
in the middle of this was he needed to slow down.
He needed to receive the he was all stressed out.
He was all worked up. I'm going to get there late.
ET cetera. ET cetera. And he said what that flat
tire did was give me the peace on. What I'm
(17:41):
really looking for here in my life is not to
make all the appointments, make everybody happy with me and
say the right things on the radio. It's to bask
in his love. It's to accept his grace and mercy.
That was his collateral blessing.
S2 (17:59):
Amen. Amen.
S1 (18:00):
Isn't that good?
S2 (18:01):
Yes. You know, when I. The first night that, uh.
That I found out that I had terminal cancer. That
was difficult. That was a difficult night. And, uh, and, uh,
I didn't sleep the whole night because of these intrusive
thoughts that were coming to me about, you know, thoughts
(18:22):
like you were serving God. You retired from the police
department to serve the Lord, and now this is happening.
And it was all a very confusing, confusing and, uh,
and then just kind of imagining, you know, how this
all how this all was going to end and just
focusing on negative things was, uh, was very discouraging. And
(18:45):
I had to I had to fight those intrusive thoughts
that were leading to despair by taking out the sword
of the spirit, which is the Word of God, and
reminding myself of the promises of God, of who I
am in Christ. Uh, of of who God is that
he loves me. Of not looking at God through, through,
(19:05):
through the lens of my circumstances, but looking at my circumstances,
through the lens that God loves me. And I know
he loves me because the cross tells me so. Uh,
and just fighting that battle, uh, is what kept me
from drowning in despair. I still had a lot of sorrow. Which,
by the way, it's okay to have sorrow and grief
when you're experiencing a loss. A loss. And that's not
(19:27):
a lack of faith.
S1 (19:29):
Yes. Uh, and there's fear there, too. And I think
there's fears. A lot of fear. I think fear gets
a bad rap sometimes because I read about the fear
of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and knowledge. Um,
and so there, there must be if I order my fear.
We've talked about this before. If I order my fear
(19:51):
that God is the one that I reverence, and I'm
in awe of and everything else is down, then when
cancer comes. Yeah, I, I can, you know, get wrapped
up with that and all of the questions that are
coming down the pike. But it doesn't have to control
me because my fear is my trust is in him. Um,
(20:12):
so just in case somebody's listening says, uh, okay, so
all I have to do is do exactly what Marco did,
read his book, and then I'm going to get healed.
You dedicate the book to Eddie Rodriguez. Tell me about Eddie.
S2 (20:28):
Yes. Um. Eddie was a man. who God brought into
my life in between my cancer diagnosis or diagnosis and
his his 14 year old daughter, Victoria was was attending
our church and she got saved and she had this
(20:49):
hope in Christ that was, um, very visible. And and
her dad saw that. And when he announced to his
family that, uh, that he was diagnosed with terminal cancer,
you know, obviously the whole family was saddened by that
and were grieving. But the way that she responded with
such hope, uh, moved him to, to to call me and, uh,
(21:13):
and and he called me and he tells me this
story about how his daughter reacted. And he says to me,
and one of the reasons he called me, he called
me also was because he knew I had cancer. Previously,
I'm in between these two cancer diagnosis, and he thought
that I could relate to him. And so he asked
me this question. He says, I have religion, but I
(21:36):
know now that I need more than that. I need
I need what my daughter has, I need, I need,
I need a relationship with God through Christ. How can
I have that? And that was in.
S3 (21:47):
That's a good question.
S2 (21:48):
That was a great question. That was in 2000, early
I think early 2017. And he was in my office
two hours later. And by the grace of God, I
was able to to lead him to a saving knowledge
of Jesus. And the grace of God was upon his life.
The hope of Christ. He had a real relationship with
(22:11):
Jesus that was giving him peace, even though he had this, this,
this grave cancer diagnosis. And, um, and then and I
believe this is, again, a collateral blessing because I get
diagnosed with terminal cancer. When I was ministering to him.
(22:33):
And then the flip.
S3 (22:35):
So you get to preach to yourself. That's right.
S2 (22:38):
So. So, you know, God flipped the script and he
became an instrument of encouragement in my life. He has
such a grace upon him, such hope, such joy, even
though he was going through, you know, a very, a
very difficult, a difficult time. And, and he when he
got baptized and he gave his testimony, uh, he said
(23:01):
that he was in a win win situation and that
that inspired a lot, a lot of people in our
church that that inspired, uh, many, many of his friends
and family and, uh, and, and he he didn't get delivered.
11 months later, he went to be with the Lord.
(23:22):
And by the way, I preached his funeral the night
before my first major surgery.
S3 (23:28):
Really?
S2 (23:28):
Yeah. And the title of my message was I'm in
a win win situation. And, you know, there was there
were several people that came to Christ at that funeral. Um,
the ripple effects of the grace that was upon him,
not only bless him, blessed him, but can but continue to,
(23:50):
to impact people's lives even to this day. Uh, he
had a brother in law, for example, who was who
was divorced. And when he was battling cancer, Eddie, uh,
he witnessed to him. And he came to a saving
knowledge of Jesus and began to pray for his wife,
his ex-wife. Yeah, her and Eddie's brother in law. His
name is Benny, and his ex-wife's name is Lily. And
(24:14):
in fact, he would. Benny would come forward. Um, after
after a sermon. I usually have prayer counselors up front,
and he would come up for prayer, and he would
ask prayer for his wife. A few weeks later, she
walks into the church. She gets saved and they both
get remarried. Oh collateral blessings.
S1 (24:33):
Again, though, you can't control that. You can't control.
S2 (24:35):
That. God does that.
S1 (24:37):
You surrender it to God. You allow him. And. And
in one sense, Eddie. Um. You both were healed. You
were healed. And you were talking to me today. That's right.
And Eddie. Eddie passed away. But he was healed, right?
S2 (24:51):
That's right. At his hospice bed, uh, about a couple
of weeks before he went to be with the Lord,
I was standing next to him, trying to minister to him,
and he was actually ministering to me. Remember, we both
have terminal cancer now, and I'm thinking I'm going to
be where he's at in a few months, you know, and, uh,
and he says, uh, he says to me, he says,
Pastor Markel, I know I look terrible from the outside,
(25:15):
but I want you to know it is well with
my soul. Wow. And I often say that I believe
that's the greatest miracle. It was not me being delivered
from cancer. God delivered me, and that was a miracle.
But to me, that's the greater miracle, the hope that
he had.
S1 (25:30):
These stories are in Marco David's book, Collateral Blessings. It's
our featured resource. Go to Chris Fabry live. I want
to deal with something that you talk about. People will
throw this out. Everything happens for a reason. Everything happens
for a reason. We're going to talk about that. If
you've ever heard that ever said that, I want you
(25:50):
to listen straight ahead on Moody Radio. We're talking with
Pastor Marco David, a retired Chicago police officer and the
lead pastor of the historic Midwest Bible Church in Chicago.
(26:13):
You can find out more about him and our featured resource,
Collateral Blessings. How Jesus providentially brings unexpected blessings in uncertain
Certain times or God's redemptive surprises, I like that. One
respondent on Facebook says, in the last 16 years I've
watched my older my oldest daughter struggle with mental illness,
(26:37):
physical disability, dysfunctional relationships, etc. the Lord once told me
to treat her as an adult. She's not a child.
I was the mother who continued to bail her out
of tough situations. I finally began to see her as
an adult. She is surviving, not perfect, but surviving. She
spends more time with her children. Just in the past
(26:58):
few weeks, I've seen her beginning to blossom. There's not much,
nothing fancy, but she's learning how healthy relationships work. I'm
grateful that the father is making this noticeable difference in
our lives. I'll bet as a, uh, as a police officer,
you saw that many times where a parent would swoop
(27:19):
in and would rescue, would bail out. And it didn't
help the the younger person. Is that true, Marco?
S2 (27:28):
Absolutely. And, um, we we we sometimes try to protect
our children and shield them, you know, from from stuff
in life, even bailing, bailing them out when they need
to kind of learn from, from their decisions. And sometimes
(27:51):
that does more harm than good.
S1 (27:54):
In what ways did being a police officer make you
a better pastor?
S2 (27:59):
You know, um, for one, again, I it it it
gave me a front row seat to to what's really
going on in the world. There's a lot of lot
of suffering, a lot of evil pain. And, you know,
when you're a pastor, you can end up in a
in a Christian bubble and lose sight of of the
(28:20):
raw and real things that are happening in the world.
And maybe you might get some of it, you know, but, uh,
but again, as a police officer, you get a front
row seat to it to to it all. But the
flip side of that, or the other side of the coin,
is that as a pastor and staying close to, to
Christ kept my heart tender and and made me aware
(28:44):
and continue to help me stay focused on the fact
that that God redeems. I saw the worst things and
I saw people do evil things. Um, but but staying
close to Christ reminded me that God redeems the cross
and the resurrection screams that God reverses and redeems.
S1 (29:07):
But you have to look. You can't look at people
with rose colored glasses because as a police officer, you've
seen enough of, you know, the evil and the bad. Uh,
and they're so but you you have to also then
see that person as God sees them as an image
someone created in his image, and it causes you to
(29:29):
treat them differently in a sense. Right?
S2 (29:32):
Right. You know, some people would would when they would
hear that I, that I was a police officer and
a pastor, they would see that as some kind of contradiction,
you know. But but Romans 13, for example, speaks of
those who are in that kind of a authority position
as a minister of God. And their job is to
(29:52):
help to restrain evil, right. Help to restrain evil. And
there's consequences. Um, and and there's consequences of sin. Um,
and I understood that as a police officer. Uh, laws
have to be enforced in order to have a just society.
God ordained government for that, for that purpose. Um, but again,
(30:15):
God redeems. God redeems.
S1 (30:19):
Think of the story of Freddie. We got to get
the story, Freddie. We're going to get to Bert. But
you mentioned Romans, so I'm going to go to Romans
828 is a famous verse. And in the book you
say that people will say as kind of shorthand, Romans 828,
everything happens for a reason. And you think that that
misses the mark of what Romans 828 is really talking about?
(30:43):
Why is that not a good thing? Uh, everything happens
for a reason. Why is does that miss the mark?
S2 (30:50):
Yeah, you hear that a lot. And some may be
connecting it to Romans 828 that says all things work
together for good to those who love God, to those
who are called according to his purpose. And when you
look at the context, it has to do with being
conformed to really to the image of Christ being more
like Christ, uh, which is a great blessing of going
(31:12):
through a difficult time in your life that God works
for good. But that's not what people always mean when
they say everything happens for a reason. And when you
say that to someone that's going through a difficult time,
it can be insensitive, implying their suffering is inherently good
or will quickly resolve. So it's saying that to someone
(31:36):
that is grieving is not always a wise thing or
helpful thing. Uh, you know, when I, when I had
terminal cancer, uh, uh, a good friend, a pastor, came
to see me. And this is before there was any
glimmer of hope that something could be done, because there
was a season there when I had terminal cancer, that
(31:58):
there was no solution. The doctor, the first doctor, my
first surgeon that operated on me when he opened me
up and saw that that cancer was all over the place,
he closed me back up and told my family in
the waiting room that nothing could be done. And, uh,
and so I was, you know, I was in a
in a valley. I was very discouraged. For, for for
(32:18):
a couple of months I had insomnia. I was doing chemotherapy,
and there was all kinds of side effects and nausea.
I was not feeling well in a lot of ways.
And this pastor friend came to see me and, and, uh,
he asked me how I was doing. So I told
him how I was doing. I was raw and real and, um.
And he paused for a minute and he said to me,
(32:42):
what's the matter with you, Marco? Where is your faith?
You have to be strong for your family. And, um, well,
I was way more discouraged after you left, and and, um,
you know, this brother is a good friend. And later
he told me that he knew he had said the
(33:03):
wrong thing. He sat in his car for 20 minutes
and wept before he he he drove off. And he
actually told me that a few months later, I said,
you should have wept with me But when you were
in my house, that would have served me better. And, um,
my point is that we need we need to allow
(33:23):
people to grieve. Life is hard. A cancer diagnosis is difficult.
And a terminal cancer diagnosis. The the loss. What? You know. Uh,
what could happen? Uh, you know, I was thinking for,
for example, that I wasn't going to marry my sons
and I wasn't going to see my grandchildren. That's a
real thing. And it's okay to grieve that. And that's
(33:45):
not a lack of faith. And to lead someone to
think that that's a lack of faith, rather than grieving
and weeping with them. And, um, we're not we're not
helping them. Everything works out. You know, everything happens for
a reason. That's not the thing to say at that point.
S1 (34:01):
It dismisses you, doesn't it? Right. It dismisses the feelings.
I was reading Psalm ten this morning. Why, O Lord,
do you stand far away? Why do you hide yourself
in times of trouble? And and and and you just
read that those two sentences and you think, well, you've
lost your faith. You're not pleasing God, you know. Come on.
Be strong for your family. So no, this is what
(34:24):
the psalmist is going through. This is reality. Now, toward
the end of the Psalm, the the psalmist comes to
a different place, you know, gets to a different place
in the process. But verse one is as real as
anything in the rest of the Psalm about the feelings
that are going on. And those are. That's not a doubt. Um,
(34:47):
and struggle is not a sign that you don't have faith.
It's the sign that you are human, right?
S2 (34:55):
That's right. And we need to allow people to lament
and their psalms of lament. I'm not sure if you
interviewed Mark Rogoff. He wrote a book on Rogoff. Yes.
He wrote a wonderful book on lament. Lament and and
grieving is a process. And getting to that place where
you rejoice even in difficult times doesn't come overnight. And
(35:18):
by the way, we don't rejoice in the cancer. We
rejoice in the Lord through, through, through difficult circumstances. But
but again, we don't get there overnight. There's a process
of lamenting. He talks about turning to the Lord with
us in our pain, bringing our complaints to him, our confusion,
(35:39):
our doubts. That's what you see in the Psalms, and
then asking God for help. And then what you see
in the Psalms is the psalmist, the person lamenting, encountering,
encountering God. So sometimes the peace comes not because they're
delivered from their problems, but because they encounter the Lord,
(35:59):
which is what happened to job, right?
S1 (36:01):
Yes, in the middle of it, in the middle of
the problem. So if you're listening today and you say,
but you don't understand, you don't know what I'm going through,
it's I. You're right, I don't. But in the middle
of that, God is able to reach in and and
do something in this situation. Um, and not to say
(36:22):
and that's the other thing we have to talk about
is God. Did God give you cancer? God, I'm going
to do this tomorrow and I'm going to do this,
you know, to to whoever's listening today, this problem in
their life. Does he give that to us? Well, we
can say that it's providential that he's in control. So.
And I don't understand how all that works. And I'll
(36:43):
let you respond to that. And we got to get
the birth story before we end here today. You got
to hear about Bert. Marco David is our guest today.
He's a pastor, used to be a police officer. He's
written a lot of stories in this book that I
think will really encourage you. Collateral blessings. It's our featured
resource at Chris Lives. Somebody is going through a situation
(37:16):
and you think this is collateral damage to your heart,
to your soul, to your relationships, your family. Something's going wrong.
There could be at church problems, church problems, and fighting
in between the people who are church members. And this
shouldn't be and we shouldn't have this. Well, you're right,
it shouldn't be this way. But here we are. That's
(37:37):
what it is. We got to deal with what is.
What might we be missing? What might the collateral blessing
be if we don't stay right here? That's what Marco
David has written about. Collateral blessings. Let's go to Chris
Fabry live. We've, uh, teased this all hour long. Burt,
(37:58):
you got to tell me about Burt. Tell me a story.
S2 (38:01):
Yes. Uh, so Burt was, uh, a young man that
actually grew up in the neighborhood that I grew up
in on the near Northwest Side. And, uh, he had
he had, uh, he grew up in a two parent home,
but he lost his way as a teenager and became
a gangbanger, a hardcore gangbanger. And, um, he, uh, he
(38:24):
he committed a drive by shooting, and the person that
he shot died. And he he got arrested for it
and went to prison. He was given a 40 year sentence.
Ten years into his sentence. His mom and dad, uh,
by the providence of God, began to attend Midwest Bible Church.
(38:44):
And the way that happened, that was, again, that was
the providence of God. We don't have time to get
into that, but it's another amazing story. It's in the book.
It's in the book. How that all, all that all happened. And, um,
and so Mom and dad, uh, began to pray for him,
asked prayer for him, for Burt. And our church began
to pray for him. But again, he was a hardcore gangbanger. banger. Now,
(39:07):
he's been in prison for ten years. And at one point,
dad asked me to go visit him. And I remember actually,
at this time, I was still a Chicago police officer. And, uh.
And so dad told Bert to put me on his
visiting list to visit an inmate. They'd have to put
you on the visiting list. And when he found that out,
when he found out that I was a police officer,
(39:28):
he didn't. He didn't want to see me. In fact,
he told his father. Why are you bringing this cop
up in here? That's exactly what he told his dad.
By the way. You got to have him on one day.
He's got an incredible story. And. But anyhow, uh. And so.
So he did, out of respect for his father, put
me on on the visiting list. And it takes about
(39:48):
a month to process. And while I was waiting to
go visit him, it occurred to me that, uh, I
was the officer involved in a preliminary investigation that led him.
So not only was I a police officer, but I
actually played a role in him getting arrested. And, um,
(40:10):
and so then he finds that out too. So now
he's even more reluctant to see me. Yeah. And, um,
so again, the providence of God that, you know, ten
years before I was actually an officer that did the
preliminary investigation that led to his arrest. So fast forward
ten years. I'm sitting in a visiting room with Burt
(40:30):
Berrios and, um, you know, just let me back up
a little bit to two weeks before that visit. He
ended up in the segregation unit, uh, for getting into
a fight in the chow hall. Uh, and in in
that segregation unit, he he he he had a he
was given a Bible and he began to read it.
And that was providential because God used that to kind
(40:53):
of soften his heart a little bit. Uh, and so, uh,
when I got there, um, I share the gospel with him.
We just talked at first. We talked. We ate together, and, uh,
and I was able to share the gospel with him.
And he came to a saving knowledge of Jesus. And
we don't have time to get into the whole story,
but his life.
S1 (41:13):
Probably took a while to break down those barriers of, yeah,
I mean, it was he.
S2 (41:18):
Faced some, you know. Yeah. He faced so many challenges
to as a Christian in prison and the stuff that
he overcame to walk with the Lord in prison after
being you can't just walk out of a gang, uh,
you know, when you've been in a gang. It's very
costly and sometimes they don't really even allow it. But
God did an amazing work in his life. He got
(41:38):
out of the gang. He grew in the Lord. Uh,
I continued to visit him. Other folks in our church
continue to, uh, to visit with him. And by the way, uh,
he's a deacon in our church today. He's married. He
has a great job. Uh, and he's he's serving the Lord.
He's never turned back. He loves Jesus. And, uh, but,
(42:00):
you know, that got me involved. That that whole experience
got me involved in prison ministry, uh, with a man
named Manny Mill. Who, who? You know, uh, Chris. And. Absolutely.
And by the way, it was through getting involved in
prison ministry that I met a man named Scott Filene,
who's a pilot and a prayer warrior, and he became
(42:23):
an instrumental in my life when I got diagnosed with
terminal cancer. Uh, he had a grace upon him to
pray for me. In fact, he felt like God had
assigned him to to pray for me. And when I
was battling cancer, this man became a tremendous encouragement to me. And, uh,
he had faith for me. And and when, when I was, uh,
(42:46):
going through a difficult time and, and he kept praying
and he had this faith to believe that that God
was going to get me through it. And sure enough,
not only was he the fervent, uh, intercessor, but he
also became the faithful instrument that God used to connect
me to a doctor that was willing to take on
(43:10):
my case when other doctors were not willing to take
on my case.
S1 (43:14):
Yeah, said it was hopeless.
S2 (43:16):
Yeah. And said. And said it was hopeless. That doctor's
name is Doctor Enrico Benedetti. And, uh, and so, uh,
just the way that God works, the collateral blessings, uh,
the faith decision, the the the visit that God orchestrated
with Burt led to other blessings, including me being healed, uh,
(43:39):
from from from cancer.
S1 (43:42):
And part of that story with Burt. And again, you're right.
We don't have time to go into it. But as
a police officer, you can't have you can't have a relationship.
A relationship with a with a felon, with a known felon. Right?
So when the judge. When isn't that the story? When
you came before the judge.
S2 (43:59):
Right. That was actually Freddie. That's a whole. That's another story.
That's Freddie's story. That's Freddie.
S1 (44:03):
Story. I got to get Bert and Freddie in here.
S2 (44:05):
Oh, that would be great if you had them both there.
S1 (44:08):
Is that something? And and so? So we come down
to the end. I want you to say something then
to the person who's listening right now who has a
friend or a loved one family member, and they've been
praying and nothing is happening or in their life they've
received so much and they just feel like they've been victimized,
even by God's goodness. It's not there anymore. What do
(44:31):
you say to the people who are in that situation?
S2 (44:34):
Can I read a paragraph from the book, please? God's
word and my own intense struggles have taught me vital
lessons that I pray will encourage you. Providence hides in hardship.
Look for God's blessings there. Trust that he's working in
ways you may not be able to see. Look for
(44:56):
how he wants to use you, not just when the
trial is over, but through it. Often the greatest miracles
are not just the deliverance from trials, but the ones
God works in and through us during them. And I
think that's a very important lesson that I learned, that
(45:19):
the greatest blessing is, is encountering God when you're waiting
on him in a difficult time. He can deliver, and
I can testify that God can deliver us. When the
doctor said that there was no hope. But the greatest
deliverance is encountering God and receiving his peace in the
midst of a storm.
S1 (45:41):
Which is what Eddie experienced. And, uh. And we will too,
because of the goodness of Jesus and his sacrifice and
his love and his mercy and his grace. Yes. Um,
you also sent me something that you spoke about in
front of your congregation about the the floodwaters in Texas.
(46:02):
And now there are more floodwaters in New Mexico and others. Um,
so but we need to leave it right there. Marco,
thank you for sharing your heart and your life. Thank
you for putting it on the page. Thank you for
for being faithful with all that.
S2 (46:17):
Thank you for allowing me to be with you today,
with you here today. What a blessing.
S1 (46:21):
And I'm I'm glad that a mutual friend sent me
your book and said you really need, you know, so
there's the collateral blessing for all of us. And that's
the title of the book, Collateral Blessings how Jesus providentially
brings Unexpected Blessings in Uncertain Times, if that's what you're
going through. We have it linked at the website Chris Fabry.
(46:43):
Thanks for listening. Our program is a production of Moody Radio,
a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.
You've heard of collateral damage. Usually you hear that term
in some kind of military action. A bomb is targeted
to take out weapons or some terrorist encampment. And there
were civilians. They were unintentionally wounded or perhaps killed. That
was collateral damage. Today at the radio backyard fence, I
(00:28):
want you to hear from a former Chicago police officer
who's now a pastor. And the stories he has to
share detail the collateral blessings God gives us. He believes
that Jesus providentially brings unexpected blessings in uncertain times. Is
that what you're going through right now? Are you going
(00:48):
through a season of unwanted change and upheaval? Maybe a diagnosis.
Something you didn't choose but is right there on your
doorstep today? Or perhaps you made some bad decisions in life.
Unwise choices. Can God reveal his mercy and grace? Right here,
right now. Don't miss the conversation with pastor. Pastor Marco David,
(01:10):
straight ahead at the radio backyard fence. First, a thank
you to Ryan McConaughey. Doing all things technical. Tricia is
our producer in the chair. Anthony will be answering your calls.
And a big thank you to our friends and partners. Yes,
the summer is a little slower. I know that a
lot of vacation folks are, uh, enjoying some of that time,
(01:31):
but it's kind of slow as far as support goes.
And that's why I wanted to give a great thank
you this month. I think it's going to help you
understand the Bible better as a whole. I hear this
a lot. You know, the God of the Old Testament
seems kind of angry. He seems kind of mean to me.
But Jesus is so loving. So I stay in the
New Testament. How does how do those fit together? How
does all that and throw in Psalms and Proverbs and
(01:53):
you have a lot of big question marks. Well, Pastor
Colin Smith wrote a little book called Drive Through the Bible.
It's a 30 day journey. I would love to send
you a copy. And the collateral blessing of that is,
you see how the old and the new fit together
as you drive through it. You don't take one step
(02:13):
at a time. You go through the whole thing. And
it's our thank you right now, if you give a
gift of any size at Chris Fabry Live or call
86695 Faber, you can give a one time gift, or
you can give a gift each month and get my
back fence post. We send this out every Thursday. Sent
a really good one, really encouraging one out today. So
(02:35):
if you don't get that and you'd like to become
a back fence, partner with us and you get access
to all of the materials that we send, like this
book by Colin Smith, drive Through the Bible (866) 953-2279 or
go to Chris Fabry lives. And thanks for your support
here in the month of July. Marco David is a
(02:58):
retired Chicago police officer and the lead pastor of the
Historic Midwest Bible Church in Chicago. He serves as a
regional director for the Six four fellowship, which is a
ministry that serves pastors and as a renewal coach. By
God's grace and his amazing providence, he is a two
time cancer survivor. You're going to hear more about that.
(03:19):
He's married to his high school sweetheart, Elizabeth, and they
have four sons who are all honorably serving as Chicago
police officers. Is that true, Marco?
S2 (03:30):
Yes it is. Yes it is. I often say I
told them too many war stories and not enough Bible stories.
S1 (03:37):
Well, and that is, you know, that's a full time job.
It's a dangerous job. It's one that, you know, in
the in the last couple of weeks has been really
a difficult one because of all the violence that we see.
The summertime kind of happens. So you, your wife and
your family was. They were worried about you when you'd
(03:58):
go to work every day for those 20 years. And
now it's your turn, right?
S2 (04:01):
Yeah. It keeps us on our knees. Keeps us praying
for their protection.
S1 (04:06):
There you.
S2 (04:06):
Go.
S1 (04:07):
Okay, so you were an officer for 20 years. Did
you always. Is that what you wanted to do when
you were a little kid?
S2 (04:13):
You know, I came. I became interested in being a
police officer in a career development course in high school
on law enforcement, and it intrigued me, and I wanted
to serve in that way. I thought that I could
make a difference in that way.
S1 (04:31):
Were you able to?
S2 (04:33):
I believe I did, yeah. And, uh, it was, uh,
a unique experience, a, um, and I believe that being
a police officer, not only was I able to, you know,
to serve and protect and make a difference, but it
gave me a unique perspective. I think it helped me
to be a better pastor, too. two.
S1 (04:54):
Okay. I want to get to that. I want to
find out more about that. Do you remember if I
asked you. Because I asked a friend who was a
firefighter who's retired? I said, remember your worst day? What
was your worst day? And he told me the story,
and he got about the middle of the story, and
he couldn't keep going because it was so emotional to him.
So worst day. Hardest day as an officer. What was it?
S2 (05:18):
Yes. You know, I had a few, maybe more than
a few. But, um, I recall in the mid 90s, um,
getting a call of a drive by shooting on, on
Division Street near the Homewood Park area. And when, when
we when we arrived, my partner and I arrived. There
(05:39):
was three teenagers shot laying on the sidewalk. And I
remember them fighting for their lives. And, um, it really
struck me. And emotionally, you know, as a police officer,
you have to try to control your emotions so you
can do your job. But I actually had to go
(05:59):
and sit in my squad car for a minute and
catch my breath. Yeah.
S1 (06:05):
You know, it strikes me that that's the same thing
that's going on in Texas with the recovery now with
the floods. And I see these first responders that are
out there or those who are, you know, clearing debris
and looking for people who are are missing. And you
can just see that they have to kind of stop
(06:26):
and process the things that they're seeing and what they're
walking through. The same thing that you did.
S2 (06:32):
Yes. And being a police officer, being a police officer
can be very challenging because you have a front row
seat to a lot of hurt, a lot of pain,
domestic violence, poverty, evil. And, um, it could it could
affect you deeply. And so how do you cope with that?
(06:53):
How do you control your emotions so you can do
your job and you can do that in a, in
a in a healthy way. But you can also do
that in an unhealthy way. So it's a very challenging
thing to to be a police officer. And, and again,
have that front row seat and all that pain.
S1 (07:10):
So you were you were going for 30 years. You
were going for the full pension and retire and you
went to 20. What happened?
S2 (07:18):
Yes. Uh, well, I was, uh, I was an associate
pastor at Midwest Bible Church, uh, at the time. And, and, uh,
in 2013, the senior pastor, my senior pastor, resigned, and
I became the, the interim pastor. And there was a
(07:38):
search committee that was looking for a pastor. And my
name kept coming up. But again, I had other plans.
You know, I had planned to to retire with a
full pension and good benefits, but my name kept coming up.
And after two years of being a bi vocational pastor,
the church called me. And I knew after two years
of trying to do it by vocationally, that I couldn't
do it like that anymore, that I needed to to
(08:01):
go full time. And that was a big decision. But, uh,
but God saw me through it, and a lot of
collateral blessings came from it as well that I didn't
foresee that we'll talk about, I'm sure.
S1 (08:12):
Okay. Okay. Let's let's talk about that term. Where did
you first hear collateral blessings?
S2 (08:19):
You know, um, a few people were were they know
my story. They know my cancer journey. I'm a two time,
two time cancer survivor. Survivor. The second time it was
terminal cancer. And God brought me through that. And it's
an amazing story of God's providence. And so I was
being encouraged to write a book. And, uh, there was other,
other unique providential things that happened, uh, that that weaved,
(08:44):
weaved God's grace, that impacted other people's lives and this
whole story. And but I really didn't know how to
put all that together. I had all these testimonies, you know,
I knew what God did for me and how God
brought me through all that. And I just didn't quite
know how to put it together. And someone who actually
was instrumental in how God brought me to to recover
(09:07):
from cancer. I was riding in a car with him.
His name is Kathleen. He's a pilot, and we were
just talking about things and he used that word collateral blessings. And, uh,
just as.
S1 (09:18):
Soon as you heard it.
S2 (09:19):
As soon as I.
S1 (09:20):
Heard.
S2 (09:20):
It, it just something clicked and I felt like, this
is how all this is going to come together, how
I'm going to put all these stories together. And, and
because God is a God of, of of of providence and,
and he orchestrates and works in our lives and weaves
(09:41):
blessings into our lives even through pain. And and that's that.
That's my story. And and and just thinking and reflecting upon.
What does Collateral Blessing actually mean is how God led
me to put the put the book together.
S1 (09:57):
As I went through. And you have so many great
stories in here. I want to get to some of them.
But the as I went through, the thing that screamed
at me was, uh, I, I want to control the blessing,
you know, I want to earn the blessing I want
to do. Or if there's somebody that, you know, I
(10:18):
want to, uh, come to Christ. I want to do
the things that will make that happen. And what your
book tells me is you don't control the blessings God does.
And so let me take a break. We'll come back.
It's our featured resource today. Collateral Blessings how Jesus providentially
(10:39):
Brings Unexpected Blessings in Uncertain Times by Pastor Marco David.
The foreword is written by Daniel Henderson. And if you
go to Chris Fabry live.org. Click through today's information. You'll
see it right there. Collateral blessings. More straight ahead. We're
(11:05):
talking about collateral blessings today at the radio backyard fence.
Pastor Marco David is with us. The question on Facebook
is have you found unexpected good in something you saw
as bad? And there's some responses there. You can answer
there or call us (877) 548-3675. If at any point you
(11:27):
have a question, you have a comment, or you have
a life story, a collateral blessing that you've experienced. (877) 548-3675.
At the website Featured Resource Today. Click through today's information
right there and you'll see the book Collateral blessings that
Marco has put together. Okay, so on page 18, page 19,
(11:50):
actually a collateral blessing would be the unintended and unanticipated
good that occurs while embarked upon an altogether different mission. Uh,
then a little further, collateral blessings are the unexpected, continuing
ripple effects of God's providential and redemptive blessings coming through
(12:12):
answers to prayer. What's more, they involve decisions we make
in faith and hardships we may have to endure, which
God works out for good. So it's it sounds to
me that collateral blessings come to us when we have
this posture of surrender. You can't pray unless you're surrendered to,
(12:35):
in some sense, some way. You can't pray from the
heart unless you really are surrendered to God's will. So
we don't control the collateral blessings. Talk more about that.
S2 (12:48):
Yeah, that's a great topic because I didn't want the
book to make people believe that there's this formula that
if you follow it, that everything's going to work out
perfectly in this life and you're going to experience blessings
and prosperity and. And I didn't want to to communicate that.
(13:09):
But here's a simpler definition of collateral blessings, God's redemptive
surprises that come through faith and trials, uh, or the
unforeseen gifts of grace. God weaves through obedience and suffering. Uh,
so a collateral blessing can can be that that in
(13:29):
a difficult time, God delivers us from the difficult trial
that we're going through in ways that we never saw coming. Uh,
I had terminal cancer, and I had pretty much resigned
to the fact that I was going to go be
with Jesus in a few months. And God turned that
God turned that around.
S1 (13:51):
And that was right after you became a pastor to.
Was it?
S2 (13:55):
Right, right, right.
S1 (13:56):
See, now that, you know, if you give up the
the pension, I mean, you had 20 years, so you
had something to say for your work. But if you
give that up and God will serve you and then
you get cancer, it's like, wait, there's something wrong here.
S2 (14:09):
That's right, that's right. And so six months after I
retired from the Chicago Police Department, I retired early, uh,
to be the full time pastor of Midwest Bible Church.
I was diagnosed with stage two cancer. And, um. And
so that was six months after I retired. And, um,
(14:31):
you know, it was a little confusing, but, uh, I
was anxious about serving the Lord and getting God's work done. So, uh,
at the time, I was like, what do I have
to do? What chemotherapy do I have to do? What
surgery do I have to do? I need to get
I need to get past this because I have work
for the Lord to do. Um, and, um, and I
(14:52):
did seemingly get past it. And then two years later,
it came back with a vengeance. Uh, it had metastasized
to my liver. I had a tumor in my duodenum.
Part of your stomach. And also on the head of
my pancreas. And that was a grave diagnosis. And that
hit me a little bit differently. And, uh, again, um,
(15:16):
there was a lot of grieving, a lot of sorrow.
It was one of the hardest, darkest times, uh, in
my life. And again, you know, going back to this
whole thing of what a collateral blessing is, it can
be that God delivers you in a way that you
didn't expect. And I didn't expect to be delivered from
terminal cancer, to be honest with you. Um, but it
(15:37):
could also be the grace that God gives you in
a very difficult time, like he did for Paul. When
Paul prayed, pleading to God to deliver him from this
thorn in the flesh. And we don't know exactly what
it was, but we can speculate. And God didn't deliver him.
But God did give him a grace to endure it,
(15:58):
a grace that kept him dependent upon God and useful
in his hands. And and sometimes the collateral blessing is
that God refines us, uh, through through that trial and
brings us to a deeper understanding of who he is
and of his love and the security that is found
in him.
S1 (16:16):
And we realize what we're really looking for was not
what we were looking for, but for him, you know,
his presence and, and and so if you're going, that's
something that you're going through today, you know, you have
a diagnosis or there's there's just some weight or heaviness
on your life. I want you to listen through this prism.
(16:36):
What might be God's redemptive surprise in the middle of
the struggle that you're in right now that you're not
even looking for or anticipating? And again, this is surrender
I can't control. See, that's what I was talking with
a friend earlier today, and he was coming to the
studio and he had a flat tire. You know, he's like,
(16:58):
I got to get air in this tire. And he
was looking around. And so what I want to happen
when I get a flat tire is I want some,
you know, the the person who helps me, me out.
I want to lead them to Jesus or, you know,
do some kind of redemptive thing. Or if they were
down on their luck and they helped me, and then
I was able to give them money that helped them. And,
(17:19):
you know, all I try to do it. I try
to fix it. Work it out. And what he realized
in the middle of this was he needed to slow down.
He needed to receive the he was all stressed out.
He was all worked up. I'm going to get there late.
ET cetera. ET cetera. And he said what that flat
tire did was give me the peace on. What I'm
(17:41):
really looking for here in my life is not to
make all the appointments, make everybody happy with me and
say the right things on the radio. It's to bask
in his love. It's to accept his grace and mercy.
That was his collateral blessing.
S2 (17:59):
Amen. Amen.
S1 (18:00):
Isn't that good?
S2 (18:01):
Yes. You know, when I. The first night that, uh.
That I found out that I had terminal cancer. That
was difficult. That was a difficult night. And, uh, and, uh,
I didn't sleep the whole night because of these intrusive
thoughts that were coming to me about, you know, thoughts
(18:22):
like you were serving God. You retired from the police
department to serve the Lord, and now this is happening.
And it was all a very confusing, confusing and, uh,
and then just kind of imagining, you know, how this
all how this all was going to end and just
focusing on negative things was, uh, was very discouraging. And
(18:45):
I had to I had to fight those intrusive thoughts
that were leading to despair by taking out the sword
of the spirit, which is the Word of God, and
reminding myself of the promises of God, of who I
am in Christ. Uh, of of who God is that
he loves me. Of not looking at God through, through,
(19:05):
through the lens of my circumstances, but looking at my circumstances,
through the lens that God loves me. And I know
he loves me because the cross tells me so. Uh,
and just fighting that battle, uh, is what kept me
from drowning in despair. I still had a lot of sorrow. Which,
by the way, it's okay to have sorrow and grief
when you're experiencing a loss. A loss. And that's not
(19:27):
a lack of faith.
S1 (19:29):
Yes. Uh, and there's fear there, too. And I think
there's fears. A lot of fear. I think fear gets
a bad rap sometimes because I read about the fear
of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and knowledge. Um,
and so there, there must be if I order my fear.
We've talked about this before. If I order my fear
(19:51):
that God is the one that I reverence, and I'm
in awe of and everything else is down, then when
cancer comes. Yeah, I, I can, you know, get wrapped
up with that and all of the questions that are
coming down the pike. But it doesn't have to control
me because my fear is my trust is in him. Um,
(20:12):
so just in case somebody's listening says, uh, okay, so
all I have to do is do exactly what Marco did,
read his book, and then I'm going to get healed.
You dedicate the book to Eddie Rodriguez. Tell me about Eddie.
S2 (20:28):
Yes. Um. Eddie was a man. who God brought into
my life in between my cancer diagnosis or diagnosis and
his his 14 year old daughter, Victoria was was attending
our church and she got saved and she had this
(20:49):
hope in Christ that was, um, very visible. And and
her dad saw that. And when he announced to his
family that, uh, that he was diagnosed with terminal cancer,
you know, obviously the whole family was saddened by that
and were grieving. But the way that she responded with
such hope, uh, moved him to, to to call me and, uh,
(21:13):
and and he called me and he tells me this
story about how his daughter reacted. And he says to me,
and one of the reasons he called me, he called
me also was because he knew I had cancer. Previously,
I'm in between these two cancer diagnosis, and he thought
that I could relate to him. And so he asked
me this question. He says, I have religion, but I
(21:36):
know now that I need more than that. I need
I need what my daughter has, I need, I need,
I need a relationship with God through Christ. How can
I have that? And that was in.
S3 (21:47):
That's a good question.
S2 (21:48):
That was a great question. That was in 2000, early
I think early 2017. And he was in my office
two hours later. And by the grace of God, I
was able to to lead him to a saving knowledge
of Jesus. And the grace of God was upon his life.
The hope of Christ. He had a real relationship with
(22:11):
Jesus that was giving him peace, even though he had this, this,
this grave cancer diagnosis. And, um, and then and I
believe this is, again, a collateral blessing because I get
diagnosed with terminal cancer. When I was ministering to him.
(22:33):
And then the flip.
S3 (22:35):
So you get to preach to yourself. That's right.
S2 (22:38):
So. So, you know, God flipped the script and he
became an instrument of encouragement in my life. He has
such a grace upon him, such hope, such joy, even
though he was going through, you know, a very, a
very difficult, a difficult time. And, and he when he
got baptized and he gave his testimony, uh, he said
(23:01):
that he was in a win win situation and that
that inspired a lot, a lot of people in our
church that that inspired, uh, many, many of his friends
and family and, uh, and, and he he didn't get delivered.
11 months later, he went to be with the Lord.
(23:22):
And by the way, I preached his funeral the night
before my first major surgery.
S3 (23:28):
Really?
S2 (23:28):
Yeah. And the title of my message was I'm in
a win win situation. And, you know, there was there
were several people that came to Christ at that funeral. Um,
the ripple effects of the grace that was upon him,
not only bless him, blessed him, but can but continue to,
(23:50):
to impact people's lives even to this day. Uh, he
had a brother in law, for example, who was who
was divorced. And when he was battling cancer, Eddie, uh,
he witnessed to him. And he came to a saving
knowledge of Jesus and began to pray for his wife,
his ex-wife. Yeah, her and Eddie's brother in law. His
name is Benny, and his ex-wife's name is Lily. And
(24:14):
in fact, he would. Benny would come forward. Um, after
after a sermon. I usually have prayer counselors up front,
and he would come up for prayer, and he would
ask prayer for his wife. A few weeks later, she
walks into the church. She gets saved and they both
get remarried. Oh collateral blessings.
S1 (24:33):
Again, though, you can't control that. You can't control.
S2 (24:35):
That. God does that.
S1 (24:37):
You surrender it to God. You allow him. And. And
in one sense, Eddie. Um. You both were healed. You
were healed. And you were talking to me today. That's right.
And Eddie. Eddie passed away. But he was healed, right?
S2 (24:51):
That's right. At his hospice bed, uh, about a couple
of weeks before he went to be with the Lord,
I was standing next to him, trying to minister to him,
and he was actually ministering to me. Remember, we both
have terminal cancer now, and I'm thinking I'm going to
be where he's at in a few months, you know, and, uh,
and he says, uh, he says to me, he says,
Pastor Markel, I know I look terrible from the outside,
(25:15):
but I want you to know it is well with
my soul. Wow. And I often say that I believe
that's the greatest miracle. It was not me being delivered
from cancer. God delivered me, and that was a miracle.
But to me, that's the greater miracle, the hope that
he had.
S1 (25:30):
These stories are in Marco David's book, Collateral Blessings. It's
our featured resource. Go to Chris Fabry live. I want
to deal with something that you talk about. People will
throw this out. Everything happens for a reason. Everything happens
for a reason. We're going to talk about that. If
you've ever heard that ever said that, I want you
(25:50):
to listen straight ahead on Moody Radio. We're talking with
Pastor Marco David, a retired Chicago police officer and the
lead pastor of the historic Midwest Bible Church in Chicago.
(26:13):
You can find out more about him and our featured resource,
Collateral Blessings. How Jesus providentially brings unexpected blessings in uncertain
Certain times or God's redemptive surprises, I like that. One
respondent on Facebook says, in the last 16 years I've
watched my older my oldest daughter struggle with mental illness,
(26:37):
physical disability, dysfunctional relationships, etc. the Lord once told me
to treat her as an adult. She's not a child.
I was the mother who continued to bail her out
of tough situations. I finally began to see her as
an adult. She is surviving, not perfect, but surviving. She
spends more time with her children. Just in the past
(26:58):
few weeks, I've seen her beginning to blossom. There's not much,
nothing fancy, but she's learning how healthy relationships work. I'm
grateful that the father is making this noticeable difference in
our lives. I'll bet as a, uh, as a police officer,
you saw that many times where a parent would swoop
(27:19):
in and would rescue, would bail out. And it didn't
help the the younger person. Is that true, Marco?
S2 (27:28):
Absolutely. And, um, we we we sometimes try to protect
our children and shield them, you know, from from stuff
in life, even bailing, bailing them out when they need
to kind of learn from, from their decisions. And sometimes
(27:51):
that does more harm than good.
S1 (27:54):
In what ways did being a police officer make you
a better pastor?
S2 (27:59):
You know, um, for one, again, I it it it
gave me a front row seat to to what's really
going on in the world. There's a lot of lot
of suffering, a lot of evil pain. And, you know,
when you're a pastor, you can end up in a
in a Christian bubble and lose sight of of the
(28:20):
raw and real things that are happening in the world.
And maybe you might get some of it, you know, but, uh,
but again, as a police officer, you get a front
row seat to it to to it all. But the
flip side of that, or the other side of the coin,
is that as a pastor and staying close to, to
Christ kept my heart tender and and made me aware
(28:44):
and continue to help me stay focused on the fact
that that God redeems. I saw the worst things and
I saw people do evil things. Um, but but staying
close to Christ reminded me that God redeems the cross
and the resurrection screams that God reverses and redeems.
S1 (29:07):
But you have to look. You can't look at people
with rose colored glasses because as a police officer, you've
seen enough of, you know, the evil and the bad. Uh,
and they're so but you you have to also then
see that person as God sees them as an image
someone created in his image, and it causes you to
(29:29):
treat them differently in a sense. Right?
S2 (29:32):
Right. You know, some people would would when they would
hear that I, that I was a police officer and
a pastor, they would see that as some kind of contradiction,
you know. But but Romans 13, for example, speaks of
those who are in that kind of a authority position
as a minister of God. And their job is to
(29:52):
help to restrain evil, right. Help to restrain evil. And
there's consequences. Um, and and there's consequences of sin. Um,
and I understood that as a police officer. Uh, laws
have to be enforced in order to have a just society.
God ordained government for that, for that purpose. Um, but again,
(30:15):
God redeems. God redeems.
S1 (30:19):
Think of the story of Freddie. We got to get
the story, Freddie. We're going to get to Bert. But
you mentioned Romans, so I'm going to go to Romans
828 is a famous verse. And in the book you
say that people will say as kind of shorthand, Romans 828,
everything happens for a reason. And you think that that
misses the mark of what Romans 828 is really talking about?
(30:43):
Why is that not a good thing? Uh, everything happens
for a reason. Why is does that miss the mark?
S2 (30:50):
Yeah, you hear that a lot. And some may be
connecting it to Romans 828 that says all things work
together for good to those who love God, to those
who are called according to his purpose. And when you
look at the context, it has to do with being
conformed to really to the image of Christ being more
like Christ, uh, which is a great blessing of going
(31:12):
through a difficult time in your life that God works
for good. But that's not what people always mean when
they say everything happens for a reason. And when you
say that to someone that's going through a difficult time,
it can be insensitive, implying their suffering is inherently good
or will quickly resolve. So it's saying that to someone
(31:36):
that is grieving is not always a wise thing or
helpful thing. Uh, you know, when I, when I had
terminal cancer, uh, uh, a good friend, a pastor, came
to see me. And this is before there was any
glimmer of hope that something could be done, because there
was a season there when I had terminal cancer, that
(31:58):
there was no solution. The doctor, the first doctor, my
first surgeon that operated on me when he opened me
up and saw that that cancer was all over the place,
he closed me back up and told my family in
the waiting room that nothing could be done. And, uh,
and so I was, you know, I was in a
in a valley. I was very discouraged. For, for for
(32:18):
a couple of months I had insomnia. I was doing chemotherapy,
and there was all kinds of side effects and nausea.
I was not feeling well in a lot of ways.
And this pastor friend came to see me and, and, uh,
he asked me how I was doing. So I told
him how I was doing. I was raw and real and, um.
And he paused for a minute and he said to me,
(32:42):
what's the matter with you, Marco? Where is your faith?
You have to be strong for your family. And, um, well,
I was way more discouraged after you left, and and, um,
you know, this brother is a good friend. And later
he told me that he knew he had said the
(33:03):
wrong thing. He sat in his car for 20 minutes
and wept before he he he drove off. And he
actually told me that a few months later, I said,
you should have wept with me But when you were
in my house, that would have served me better. And, um,
my point is that we need we need to allow
(33:23):
people to grieve. Life is hard. A cancer diagnosis is difficult.
And a terminal cancer diagnosis. The the loss. What? You know. Uh,
what could happen? Uh, you know, I was thinking for,
for example, that I wasn't going to marry my sons
and I wasn't going to see my grandchildren. That's a
real thing. And it's okay to grieve that. And that's
(33:45):
not a lack of faith. And to lead someone to
think that that's a lack of faith, rather than grieving
and weeping with them. And, um, we're not we're not
helping them. Everything works out. You know, everything happens for
a reason. That's not the thing to say at that point.
S1 (34:01):
It dismisses you, doesn't it? Right. It dismisses the feelings.
I was reading Psalm ten this morning. Why, O Lord,
do you stand far away? Why do you hide yourself
in times of trouble? And and and and you just
read that those two sentences and you think, well, you've
lost your faith. You're not pleasing God, you know. Come on.
Be strong for your family. So no, this is what
(34:24):
the psalmist is going through. This is reality. Now, toward
the end of the Psalm, the the psalmist comes to
a different place, you know, gets to a different place
in the process. But verse one is as real as
anything in the rest of the Psalm about the feelings
that are going on. And those are. That's not a doubt. Um,
(34:47):
and struggle is not a sign that you don't have faith.
It's the sign that you are human, right?
S2 (34:55):
That's right. And we need to allow people to lament
and their psalms of lament. I'm not sure if you
interviewed Mark Rogoff. He wrote a book on Rogoff. Yes.
He wrote a wonderful book on lament. Lament and and
grieving is a process. And getting to that place where
you rejoice even in difficult times doesn't come overnight. And
(35:18):
by the way, we don't rejoice in the cancer. We
rejoice in the Lord through, through, through difficult circumstances. But
but again, we don't get there overnight. There's a process
of lamenting. He talks about turning to the Lord with
us in our pain, bringing our complaints to him, our confusion,
(35:39):
our doubts. That's what you see in the Psalms, and
then asking God for help. And then what you see
in the Psalms is the psalmist, the person lamenting, encountering,
encountering God. So sometimes the peace comes not because they're
delivered from their problems, but because they encounter the Lord,
(35:59):
which is what happened to job, right?
S1 (36:01):
Yes, in the middle of it, in the middle of
the problem. So if you're listening today and you say,
but you don't understand, you don't know what I'm going through,
it's I. You're right, I don't. But in the middle
of that, God is able to reach in and and
do something in this situation. Um, and not to say
(36:22):
and that's the other thing we have to talk about
is God. Did God give you cancer? God, I'm going
to do this tomorrow and I'm going to do this,
you know, to to whoever's listening today, this problem in
their life. Does he give that to us? Well, we
can say that it's providential that he's in control. So.
And I don't understand how all that works. And I'll
(36:43):
let you respond to that. And we got to get
the birth story before we end here today. You got
to hear about Bert. Marco David is our guest today.
He's a pastor, used to be a police officer. He's
written a lot of stories in this book that I
think will really encourage you. Collateral blessings. It's our featured
resource at Chris Lives. Somebody is going through a situation
(37:16):
and you think this is collateral damage to your heart,
to your soul, to your relationships, your family. Something's going wrong.
There could be at church problems, church problems, and fighting
in between the people who are church members. And this
shouldn't be and we shouldn't have this. Well, you're right,
it shouldn't be this way. But here we are. That's
(37:37):
what it is. We got to deal with what is.
What might we be missing? What might the collateral blessing
be if we don't stay right here? That's what Marco
David has written about. Collateral blessings. Let's go to Chris
Fabry live. We've, uh, teased this all hour long. Burt,
(37:58):
you got to tell me about Burt. Tell me a story.
S2 (38:01):
Yes. Uh, so Burt was, uh, a young man that
actually grew up in the neighborhood that I grew up
in on the near Northwest Side. And, uh, he had
he had, uh, he grew up in a two parent home,
but he lost his way as a teenager and became
a gangbanger, a hardcore gangbanger. And, um, he, uh, he
(38:24):
he committed a drive by shooting, and the person that
he shot died. And he he got arrested for it
and went to prison. He was given a 40 year sentence.
Ten years into his sentence. His mom and dad, uh,
by the providence of God, began to attend Midwest Bible Church.
(38:44):
And the way that happened, that was, again, that was
the providence of God. We don't have time to get
into that, but it's another amazing story. It's in the book.
It's in the book. How that all, all that all happened. And, um,
and so Mom and dad, uh, began to pray for him,
asked prayer for him, for Burt. And our church began
to pray for him. But again, he was a hardcore gangbanger. banger. Now,
(39:07):
he's been in prison for ten years. And at one point,
dad asked me to go visit him. And I remember actually,
at this time, I was still a Chicago police officer. And, uh.
And so dad told Bert to put me on his
visiting list to visit an inmate. They'd have to put
you on the visiting list. And when he found that out,
when he found out that I was a police officer,
(39:28):
he didn't. He didn't want to see me. In fact,
he told his father. Why are you bringing this cop
up in here? That's exactly what he told his dad.
By the way. You got to have him on one day.
He's got an incredible story. And. But anyhow, uh. And so.
So he did, out of respect for his father, put
me on on the visiting list. And it takes about
(39:48):
a month to process. And while I was waiting to
go visit him, it occurred to me that, uh, I
was the officer involved in a preliminary investigation that led him.
So not only was I a police officer, but I
actually played a role in him getting arrested. And, um,
(40:10):
and so then he finds that out too. So now
he's even more reluctant to see me. Yeah. And, um,
so again, the providence of God that, you know, ten
years before I was actually an officer that did the
preliminary investigation that led to his arrest. So fast forward
ten years. I'm sitting in a visiting room with Burt
(40:30):
Berrios and, um, you know, just let me back up
a little bit to two weeks before that visit. He
ended up in the segregation unit, uh, for getting into
a fight in the chow hall. Uh, and in in
that segregation unit, he he he he had a he
was given a Bible and he began to read it.
And that was providential because God used that to kind
(40:53):
of soften his heart a little bit. Uh, and so, uh,
when I got there, um, I share the gospel with him.
We just talked at first. We talked. We ate together, and, uh,
and I was able to share the gospel with him.
And he came to a saving knowledge of Jesus. And
we don't have time to get into the whole story,
but his life.
S1 (41:13):
Probably took a while to break down those barriers of, yeah,
I mean, it was he.
S2 (41:18):
Faced some, you know. Yeah. He faced so many challenges
to as a Christian in prison and the stuff that
he overcame to walk with the Lord in prison after
being you can't just walk out of a gang, uh,
you know, when you've been in a gang. It's very
costly and sometimes they don't really even allow it. But
God did an amazing work in his life. He got
(41:38):
out of the gang. He grew in the Lord. Uh,
I continued to visit him. Other folks in our church
continue to, uh, to visit with him. And by the way, uh,
he's a deacon in our church today. He's married. He
has a great job. Uh, and he's he's serving the Lord.
He's never turned back. He loves Jesus. And, uh, but,
(42:00):
you know, that got me involved. That that whole experience
got me involved in prison ministry, uh, with a man
named Manny Mill. Who, who? You know, uh, Chris. And. Absolutely.
And by the way, it was through getting involved in
prison ministry that I met a man named Scott Filene,
who's a pilot and a prayer warrior, and he became
(42:23):
an instrumental in my life when I got diagnosed with
terminal cancer. Uh, he had a grace upon him to
pray for me. In fact, he felt like God had
assigned him to to pray for me. And when I
was battling cancer, this man became a tremendous encouragement to me. And, uh,
he had faith for me. And and when, when I was, uh,
(42:46):
going through a difficult time and, and he kept praying
and he had this faith to believe that that God
was going to get me through it. And sure enough,
not only was he the fervent, uh, intercessor, but he
also became the faithful instrument that God used to connect
me to a doctor that was willing to take on
(43:10):
my case when other doctors were not willing to take
on my case.
S1 (43:14):
Yeah, said it was hopeless.
S2 (43:16):
Yeah. And said. And said it was hopeless. That doctor's
name is Doctor Enrico Benedetti. And, uh, and so, uh,
just the way that God works, the collateral blessings, uh,
the faith decision, the the the visit that God orchestrated
with Burt led to other blessings, including me being healed, uh,
(43:39):
from from from cancer.
S1 (43:42):
And part of that story with Burt. And again, you're right.
We don't have time to go into it. But as
a police officer, you can't have you can't have a relationship.
A relationship with a with a felon, with a known felon. Right?
So when the judge. When isn't that the story? When
you came before the judge.
S2 (43:59):
Right. That was actually Freddie. That's a whole. That's another story.
That's Freddie's story. That's Freddie.
S1 (44:03):
Story. I got to get Bert and Freddie in here.
S2 (44:05):
Oh, that would be great if you had them both there.
S1 (44:08):
Is that something? And and so? So we come down
to the end. I want you to say something then
to the person who's listening right now who has a
friend or a loved one family member, and they've been
praying and nothing is happening or in their life they've
received so much and they just feel like they've been victimized,
even by God's goodness. It's not there anymore. What do
(44:31):
you say to the people who are in that situation?
S2 (44:34):
Can I read a paragraph from the book, please? God's
word and my own intense struggles have taught me vital
lessons that I pray will encourage you. Providence hides in hardship.
Look for God's blessings there. Trust that he's working in
ways you may not be able to see. Look for
(44:56):
how he wants to use you, not just when the
trial is over, but through it. Often the greatest miracles
are not just the deliverance from trials, but the ones
God works in and through us during them. And I
think that's a very important lesson that I learned, that
(45:19):
the greatest blessing is, is encountering God when you're waiting
on him in a difficult time. He can deliver, and
I can testify that God can deliver us. When the
doctor said that there was no hope. But the greatest
deliverance is encountering God and receiving his peace in the
midst of a storm.
S1 (45:41):
Which is what Eddie experienced. And, uh. And we will too,
because of the goodness of Jesus and his sacrifice and
his love and his mercy and his grace. Yes. Um,
you also sent me something that you spoke about in
front of your congregation about the the floodwaters in Texas.
(46:02):
And now there are more floodwaters in New Mexico and others. Um,
so but we need to leave it right there. Marco,
thank you for sharing your heart and your life. Thank
you for putting it on the page. Thank you for
for being faithful with all that.
S2 (46:17):
Thank you for allowing me to be with you today,
with you here today. What a blessing.
S1 (46:21):
And I'm I'm glad that a mutual friend sent me
your book and said you really need, you know, so
there's the collateral blessing for all of us. And that's
the title of the book, Collateral Blessings how Jesus providentially
brings Unexpected Blessings in Uncertain Times, if that's what you're
going through. We have it linked at the website Chris Fabry.
(46:43):
Thanks for listening. Our program is a production of Moody Radio,
a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.
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