April 24, 2025 • 46 mins
How are you doing with the clutter around your house? What about the clutter in your heart? Julia Ubbenga knows the weight of external and internal clutter. She also knows the answer to the problem is more than tricks and life hacks. Find out how to declutter your heart AND your home—and find joy in the midst of the process. Don’t miss Chris Fabry Live.
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Declutter Your Heart and Your Home: How a Minimalist Life Yields Maximum Joy
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:06):
If you have clutter. I have a program for you
today at the Cluttered Radio Backyard Fence, we're going to
talk about the external and the internal clutter that vexes us,
that holds us back, that trips us up, that keeps
us in bondage, that keeps us from really enjoying life
in a way. But this is not just about paper
(00:26):
on your desk or unfolded laundry. Our guest says you
and I have unhealthy habits and addictions. That disorder. Our lives,
we live hurried. We rush to and fro. We foster
kind of an internal chaos that can come to be normal.
It just feels normal to live there and you don't
(00:47):
have to live that way. She believes we can reclaim
God's peace for our hearts and our homes. But how
do we do that? We're going to find out straight
ahead on Chris Fabry live the program from the heart
to the heart for the heart. Let's get going. Let
me clear the clutter away here so that I can
focus on our program. First, a thank you to Ryan
(01:07):
McConaughey doing all things technical. Trish is in the chair today.
Our producer Lisa will be answering your calls. And by
the way, if you do have clutter or clutter problem
or especially we got to get to this the sentimental clutter.
You know, those things you cannot throw away. What do
you do with those? I want to hear from you
at our number. I'll give you that. And then I
(01:27):
want to thank you for those who are working behind
the scenes who support this program. We can't do what
we do without you. Next Thursday is May 1st, the
National Day of Prayer. And my guess is there is
a parent or a grandparent listening right now who has
a child or grandchild who's at the top of the
(01:48):
prayer list. And you've been so concerned, so brokenhearted, perhaps
about their situation. And maybe you're weary of praying and
you feel like you pray the same thing every day.
There's a little book I want to send you titled
A Practical Guide for Praying Parents by Doctor Erwin Lutzer.
It's exactly what the title says A Practical guide. So
(02:09):
it doesn't give you a lot of philosophy. It gets
down in the trenches. It gets down on the knees
with you and your heart. But I only have a
few more days before this offer ends, so call or
click through. Give a gift of any size and we'll
send it to you. Eight 6695 Faber or go to
Chris Fabry, Livorno. If you can help us out in April,
(02:32):
that would be great. And if you're listening and you say, boy,
I need that, but I can't give right now, go
ahead and do it. Get in touch. I really want
to see how this resource will take you from being
an anxious parent to a praying parent or grandparent. So
call give a gift if you can. (866) 953-2279 or go
(02:53):
to Chris Fabry live. Last name F a b R-y.
F a b R-y. Chris Fabry live dot zero. And
thanks for your support. Her name is. And I've been
practicing this all week. Julia Ubangi Julia Ubangi is the
creator of the popular blog Rich in What Matters, and
(03:14):
that's going to be important to the program today. Her
online projects have helped people go from inner and outer
clutter to reordering their lives around what matters most. She
lives in Kansas City with her husband and their five children.
Now it was four, but there's a three month old
in the mix. Julia, welcome to the program. How are
you doing today?
S2 (03:35):
Chris, thank you so much for having me on. I'm great.
It's just a joy to be here talking with you today.
S1 (03:39):
How has that three month old changed your life so far?
S2 (03:43):
Oh my gosh, she's brought so much joy to our lives.
She is starting to smile, starting to coo. She is
just a blessing.
S1 (03:50):
That's neat. And the other kids I'm sure. I think
your oldest is 11. The other kids are probably having
a lot of fun, aren't they?
S2 (03:57):
So much fun. Yes. We're all. We're all in love
with her.
S1 (04:00):
Huh? All right. Julia. So why why this, uh. Declutter.
Declutter your Heart and Your home is the title of
the book. It's just been out for a week or
week or so. How a minimalist life yields maximum joy.
How did this all start with you?
S2 (04:16):
Well, that's a great question. It started in childhood, I
would say. I grew up close to my grandma. At
first I should say I have not always been a minimalist. Really.
I'm an unlikely minimalist. Pretty far from it. Um, and
so I grew up close to my grandma, and my
grandma loved to shop. It was her love language to
give people gifts. She bought things all the time. She
(04:37):
bought me things all the time. And so I'd spend
time with her and we would stroll the malls and
we would go shopping. And I soon learned that shopping
was fun. It was a way to feel good. It
was a way not to feel bad, to kind of
cover up hard feelings. And so I carried this mindset
with me into my 20s and I started making money.
I started spending money, and pretty soon I had all
(04:59):
this stuff and $40,000 worth of consumer debt. So when
I thought about the debt, I felt bad. But when
I felt bad, I'd go buy something new because that's
what I thought would make me feel good and make
me feel happy. And so the cycle really continued up
until the time our second daughter was born, and I
was working outside the home as a speech language pathologist
(05:19):
at the time. But I'd always wanted to stay home
with our kids. That was my dream to be a
stay at home mom and my husband got a promotion.
At the time I could stay home. I was so excited,
but I had this really idyllic vision of what stay
at home mom life would be like. So in my mind,
my daughters and I, we would be baking cookies and
(05:40):
giggling over tea parties and snuggled on the couch reading
little House on the Prairie. So in my mind, it
was just going to be great. Well, a couple of
weeks into the stay at home mom gig, I would
not have even called myself a stay at home mom.
I would have said a full time stuff manager. Would
have been a better title because Chris, that is what
I did. I was constantly looking for things. I was
(06:01):
picking things up. I was tripping over things I hadn't
picked up yet. It was all consuming. It was exhausting.
I was stressed, I was distracted like I was there,
but I wasn't really there. I couldn't really be present
to the people around me and I was just overwhelmed.
And so after living this way for a couple months,
(06:21):
I was diagnosed with postpartum depression. And I have this
memory of this morning where I was up in the
nursery in the recliner chair feeding the baby, and I
was talking with God, really pleading with God. I was like, God,
what is going on here? This is not what I
signed up for. Something needs to change. And I was
(06:41):
reading the Bible a couple verses from Luke chapter 12.
They just jumped off the page at me and they said,
your life does not consist of possessions. Be rich in
what matters. And so I paused right there, and I
asked myself, was I rich in what mattered? Was I
rich in relationships? Time for a prayer life to get
to know God. Time for a hobby that I loved.
(07:03):
And the answer was no. Absolutely not. So that planted
the seed that something in my life around the area
of possessions needed to change. But I didn't know what.
I didn't know where to go from there. But that
same week, I had a therapy appointment, and at the
end of the session, just as I was leaving, the
therapist said, Julia, have you ever heard of minimalism? And
(07:25):
I'm like, oh, you mean houses with white walls and
next to nothing in them? And she's like, no, there's
more to it than that. Look into it. I think
you might be interested. So I was curious. I did
a Google search there in the car about minimalism and
realized there's a lot of resources about it. So I
started reading books and blogs and listening to podcasts on it.
And this idea that I didn't need all this stuff
(07:47):
to be happy, and in fact, I'd be a whole
lot happier with less of it, because then I'd have
more time and energy to focus on who and what mattered.
It was a mindset shift that was life changing, and
it finally gave me a vision of how to get
out from under all this stress and anxiety that I
was feeling at the time. So I went all in
(08:08):
on minimalism and I started a blog. At the time,
I called it Rich in What Matters, based on the
Bible verse that spoke to me. And we got rid
of 75% of our stuff over the course of the
first year. Then we downsized to an apartment home for
a couple of years, got rid of our consumer debt,
and then built our own intentionally smaller new home. And
(08:29):
so we've been living this way as a minimalist family
now for six years. And we have five kids ages 11, seven, four, three,
and three months. So that's my story of how I
got to where I am now. And now we have
this book that I'm so excited about.
S1 (08:43):
That's your story and you're sticking to it. Okay. I
got a I got a million questions. One is about
your husband and the. And is he the same as you?
Don't answer that now, because we're going to take a break.
The other is, how do I know I'm living a
cluttered life? And you gave us a clue right there.
And it was. You felt it wasn't just the external
(09:03):
that you couldn't find, you know, the baby's nook or
the formula or whatever it was you were looking for
the diapers. There was this feeling of, I'm not really here. I'm.
I'm not present. And add to that the stress and
the anxiety that was going on on the inside. And
you can see you want to be a really good mom,
(09:25):
but you're not able to be there. And it's not
all about the stuff, you know, you can have like
nothing on the walls, like you said, not even any carpet. Uh,
and it sounds like you do have furniture because I'm
not hearing a lot of room noise when you. Your
microphone open, but, um, it's it's not just the stuff.
And that's why I wanted to have you on to
(09:47):
talk about not just decluttering your home, because that's important,
and I want you to help me with my desk again,
because Dana White has helped me before. But it's declutter
your heart. How do I declutter my heart? And that's
what we're going to talk about today. If you want
to talk with Julia, call us at (877) 548-3675. If you go,
(10:09):
this is ringing in your soul, in your heart today,
go to Chris Fabry live.org. Click through today's information. You'll
see the book right there. Declutter your heart and your home.
More straight ahead on Moody Radio.
S3 (10:33):
She's the creator of the Rich.
S1 (10:34):
In What Matters blog the website. We have it linked
at Chris Julia and it looks like UB Benga You'd
be Benga. In case you're looking for her online. But
it's urban. Gay is how you pronounce it. Declutter your
heart and your home. How a minimalist life yields maximum joy.
(10:59):
And I'm going to open the phone lines here in
a minute. Uh, (877) 548-3675. So answer that question. How do
I know I live a cluttered life? Because a lot
of people who have cluttered lives can't see it.
S2 (11:12):
Mhm. Yeah, I think it does all start with how
you're feeling inside. And it's interesting to ask that question
because we live in a time that has more stuff,
a culture that has more possessions than any culture in
the history of the world. The average home in America
now has over 300,000 things in it, and we're not
(11:34):
made to manage that much stuff. But you're right. If
we're not really if we just become used to it,
we don't realize the effect that it's having on us.
And they're starting to do studies on this. There was
a study recently out of Yale that showed that our
brains expend so much energy trying to ignore the visual
stimuli in a cluttered environment. So even if you're not
(11:55):
focusing on the clutter, your brain is still working hard
to ignore it. And that can make us feel tired.
It can make us feel distracted. And so first, just
knowing what does our clutter do to us? It is
not neutral. That is so, so important. And then we
can feel just are we living a life that's focused
(12:15):
on what matters? Or do we feel like we're constantly
just cleaning stuff, managing stuff? We weren't made for, that
we weren't made or designed for survival mode. So if
we feel like we are stuck in that, I think
a good, a good spot to start is looking at
our clutter and seeing if we can clear some of
that to live lighter.
S1 (12:35):
Yeah, well, what about Albert Einstein? I always hear this.
You look at Albert Einstein's desk and how cluttered it was,
and he was a genius. Uh, are you saying he
would have gotten more done if he lived a less
cluttered life?
S2 (12:48):
Well, I don't know, but I, as a mom personally,
I know that everything I see, like in my kitchen
or in my home, it speaks to me. It's like
a to do. So maybe Einstein's weren't to do's. They
were stuff that were helping him create. Possibly. But for
me these are to do's. It's the dishes. Got to
do the dishes. Got to put the laundry away. And
it's almost like I'm sitting at a desk with emails
(13:08):
just constantly coming in, and I am just flooded, overwhelmed,
and and I can't focus on the people around me. So, um,
for me personally, that clutter isn't neutral and it does
lead to some stress.
S1 (13:20):
Yeah, I'll tell you, that's what I it took me
a long time to finally get a desk. I had
this old beat up desk and it was very small.
And I thought, if I get a bigger desk, then
I'm going to, you know, be it's going to be
easier for me. And that's one thing that Dana Dana
White said. There is no magic desk. Chris, you got
to you got to handle this clutter. But when I
(13:42):
started implementing some of the things that she was saying
and having the desk cleared off, what happened when I
would walk in in the morning or any time, you know,
if I was on a trip and I came back
in and I saw the clean desk, it was like, ah,
I don't I don't have to spend time, you know,
fixing this or that or putting that away. It's like, ah,
(14:02):
I can just sit down and and there is this
anti-stress feeling that comes over you when you do it,
just a little bit of the work that needs to
be done. Right.
S2 (14:13):
Aha. Yes. It's like this outer order brings this inner calm. Exactly.
S1 (14:18):
Okay. So were you and your husband the same? You know, it's, uh, stuff.
Was your love language? Was it his? And did you
have a hard time getting on the same page?
S2 (14:28):
Hmm. That's a great question, Chris. I would say that
he did buy stuff just about as much as I did,
and he knew that I liked to, and he liked to.
And we would just have fun spending money. Really. And, um,
he was skeptical of me at first when I said
I was going to make this lifestyle change. And it
took him a while to get on board, but what
(14:48):
he noticed was that I was changing. I was changing
in the home. I became more fun to be around.
I became more present. Uh, before decluttering, I would ask
him about his day and he would answer me, but
I wouldn't really hear what he was saying. I was
too distracted by the stuff in our home. And then
as I started to declutter, I started noticing the details
(15:10):
of his life. And I could ask him specifically, maybe
about how a meeting went and I could use the
name of the client. And he began seeing that. I
was able to see the details and to care more
about him, and just had a stronger relationship when our
home wasn't cluttered. And that helped him get on board.
And now he is on board.
S1 (15:29):
Was it hard to get rid of stuff when you
say 75% of stuff, it was like, did you like
like couches and chairs or more like clothing and things
like that.
S2 (15:42):
All of the above. We we downsize. So we were
just ready to just keep what we loved. The minimum really.
Most of us use 20% of our stuff anyway. If
you think about your closet, what do you wear? Of
your wardrobe? You wear the same 20% of your wardrobe
every day anyway. And so, um, yeah, it was all
(16:04):
types of stuff. We just got down to that 20%.
That was our favorite.
S1 (16:08):
I'm smiling because I wear about 5% I have.
S4 (16:12):
Oh, there you go. Yeah.
S1 (16:13):
I have, you know, about, uh, a few shorts and
some Carhartt shirts, and I'm good. You know, that's that's
all I need. Um, so. But I still have. I
still have some other nice stuff. So 75% of the stuff. See,
that's going to scare some people. It's like this. This
Julia that you're talking with, she's crazy. She wants us
to get rid of 75% of everything that we own.
(16:34):
I can't do that.
S2 (16:36):
Yeah, you don't have to. Minimalism isn't about your stuff, ultimately, anyway.
It's just a tool to live your life with intention.
It's about clearing out the things in your life that
don't matter, to make space in your life for the
things that do matter. So that can be your possessions,
but it can be your calendar commitments. It can be
your self-talk thoughts. So really, it's just a tool to
live your life with intention. You don't have to get
(16:57):
rid of all your stuff, just the stuff that is
not serving you that is not essential in your life
so that you have space for what is.
S1 (17:04):
Yes, which takes us to. Tricia and Tricia and I
are very much alike. We we hang on to the
books that, you know, that I got for ten years ago,
that I'm sure I'm going to do this on this
program are still here, and I haven't done done them
on the program. Tricia struggles with the same thing. So, Tricia,
what's your question?
S5 (17:22):
Well, my question is I see the need to downsize
and get rid of some of the clutter and clear
it out. And I know that it would help me
in these things like you're talking about, but I get
so overwhelmed by the stuff. And this is I mean,
it's all of it. I was just telling Ryan in
(17:42):
the control room how many tabs I have open on
my on my browser, on my computer, just sitting in here.
And they're the things that I need to remember. And
I feel like if I clear it up, um, all
of it, I'd be able to think and process more
clearly if I didn't have the visual stuff and I
didn't have the tabs open, and I didn't have all
of these extra things. But I get so overwhelmed at
(18:03):
where to start, because I'll sit down to work on
something and it's like, oh, wait, but I need to
do this first. Oh wait, I need to do this
before I can do that. And then I just get
so overwhelmed by all of it that I end up
doing nothing. Or, you know, I'll close three tabs like, hey,
it's not really an accomplishment because there's still all the
other ones, but I mean, it's everything. It's it's my kitchen.
(18:25):
It's my it's the laundry. It's it's my office. It's
the books. Like Chris was talking about, like how how
can I even. It's my brain. How do I stop
to be able to even start on one? To be
able to follow through on it and get past that
overwhelmed feeling?
S2 (18:44):
Yeah, that's a great question. And that's why I love
this book, because it really is a guide. It's just
full of practical tools and actionable steps. It'll show you
how to work through this process of decluttering your home.
And I would say, first of all, what I found
most helpful is start in the area of your home
that is causing you the most stress. Because I had
(19:05):
always read that if you started in a small like
in contained non-sentimental area, that would be great. So I
tried the kitchen drawer first and I had all these
feel goods from finishing a decluttering project. I had this
organized kitchen drawer, but then I turned around and my
home was just overrun with kids stuff, kids clothes, kids toys,
kids artwork. So I realized that to make real functional
(19:26):
change in my home and to stay motivated to keep decluttering,
I needed to declutter in the area of in the
order of the categories of clutter that were causing me
the most stress, so I just wrote them on a
piece of paper. I numbered them ten was the most
stressful area, one was the least, and I went in
that order. So kids clothes was first for me. So
that's how I would, I would say to get started
(19:49):
and then try for just 15 minutes a day. Like
we all have a lot going on, but 15 minutes
a day is doable, and 15 minutes a day of
decluttering adds up to 7.5 hours a month, which is
90 hours a year. And you can get a lot
done in 90 hours. So the small, consistent efforts, they
lead to those big changes.
S1 (20:09):
And if you have a time in mind, you know,
say 15 minutes a day, it's like, well, I only
have 15 minutes. And you you jump into that and
you're focused on that and you do in those 15
minutes more than you would if you set aside an hour.
And then you took a phone call. ET cetera. ET cetera. Right.
S2 (20:27):
Yeah. Yeah, you can be super efficient. You've got a plan.
Just during those 15 minutes, you get it done and
you can make real change in your home that way.
S6 (20:33):
Okay, Tricia.
S1 (20:34):
So what is your number one? What is the place
in the house that you feel like this is the
biggest deal?
S5 (20:43):
Goodness. Um. The goodness. Oh, man. Um, I, I think
it's I think it's kids kill. I think it's clothes.
Mine and my kids clothes. Yeah. Um, because I have,
I have an 11 year old girl and an eight
year old girl. And then there's a boy in between. Um,
(21:04):
but I have then I'm holding on to the clothes from.
From the older one. For the younger one, you know,
because I don't want to go out and buy new
clothes because these are fine and they're still in good condition.
And so I've got like this when you swap out
the sizes. And so I'm like in between seasons right now.
And so it ends up feeling like there's just so
(21:25):
many pieces of clothing between.
S7 (21:28):
What do you do with that then, Julie?
S1 (21:30):
What do you do with you? Want to save the the. Hand-me-downs.
But they're not going to be used for at least
two years. What do you do with those?
S2 (21:39):
Yeah, well, you can save some, but don't keep it all.
I save maybe four five of the max outfits. Per size.
Per kid. Because what I find is a lot of
times grandparents want to buy the kids a. Gift at
birthday time and clothes are a perfect gift. So I
am constantly asking, hey, will you get this child some
(22:01):
new clothes? And so if we have some gaps in
the wardrobe. Grandparents are more than happy to fill in.
And so for me that works. Um, thrift stores are
also great. You can get a kid's wardrobe for a
very affordable price if you want, and a thrift store.
So that's those are the resources I use and I
really keep a minimal amount. Just my very favorite outfits
(22:22):
are the ones that are in the best condition.
S1 (22:25):
But that is a change of mindset. Then you're saying
is you've got this has to be an intentional thing.
This doesn't come naturally to many of us. You have
to make choices. And so I'm going to open the
phone lines (877) 548-3675. Julie Ibengé is with us. Declutter your
heart and your home. She's already fixed Trisha's life. Now,
(22:48):
now we're going to move to Linda in Ohio. Linda,
why did you call today?
S8 (22:54):
Um, so the reason I called. Because I can't even
believe I tuned into this today, because this has been
a preoccupation in my mind for a while. And I
have things that I'm emotionally attached to, and I know it.
And I don't know exactly what to do about it. Um,
my parents passed away in the last couple of years,
(23:15):
and I ended up buying their condominium. So I had
my stuff, their stuff, our stuff, all this stuff. And
I have one spare room. I go in there to exercise,
and I just look around that room and I'm like, okay,
I can't get rid of that. That was my mom's.
I can't. I'm really attached to books. I'm extremely attached
to Bibles. So I have a Bible that I use
for years and I'm not using it anymore. But boy,
(23:37):
when I did use it, I underlined it and I
was all the way through that Bible and it meant
something to me. And now I can't get rid of
that Bible. So I have this emotional attachment to stuff
that it's as the last caller called, called and said,
it's sometimes it's just like overwhelming. I just I'm not
(23:59):
sure what to do. And then I start on a rampage.
I've even taken books to the to the thrift shop
and went back and bought them again. I can't even
believe I can't even believe I did that, but I
was like, I can't even get this book anymore. What
was I thinking to give that book away? And so
I went to the thrift shop before they sold it,
and I bought my own book back, you know, and, um.
S3 (24:21):
I hope you got a good deal on it. Linda. Uh, it.
S8 (24:23):
Wasn't bad, but but it was stupid. But it wasn't
a bad price.
S3 (24:28):
But no, it's not stupid. No, no, don't say that. See,
that's the self-talk that Julie is going to talk about too.
S1 (24:34):
No, this is your. You see the struggle though. See,
you've you've.
S3 (24:39):
Identified.
S1 (24:39):
The struggle and and it's kind of bad, especially with
the books and the emotional attachment. So I've got a
minute before we need to take a break here. Julie,
why don't you start?
S2 (24:50):
Yeah, well, first of all, she's not alone. Sentimental items
are so difficult for people to let go of because
we think that our memories are held in our possessions,
but our memories aren't held in our possessions. They're held
within us. But we're afraid that if we let go
of the item, we're going to lose our memory of
that item or that person that is attached to that thing.
(25:12):
And so I would say just the thing that happens
with sentimental items is that we box them away and
we don't actually get that emotional value from the things
because so many of them are just boxed away in
our basement or in our garage. And so if we
can think about what we want to keep, just keeping
our very favorite things and putting them in a place
(25:34):
we can display them, and then take a picture of
the other things and donate those. That can really.
S1 (25:39):
Help. You got to go really slowly for me there
because you're speaking my love language too. So, Linda, hang on.
I want you to hear more from Julia Ubbink declutter
your heart and your home as our topic today on
Chris Fabry Live.
S6 (26:04):
Well, we had some.
S1 (26:04):
Great conversations this week. I hope today's decluttering discussion is
touching a nerve for you. This emotional attachment idea that
Linda called about something that I knew we had to
talk about, I. I feel her pain. It's my love
language too. And you know what? Each day we introduce
you to guests and ideas and ministries that are really
(26:24):
making a difference in people's lives. Carenet is one of
those they call their approach. Pro abundant life because they
want to help the unborn. Absolutely. But they also want
to help everybody else in the equation of life. And
that includes those who made a decision last week or
last year or 30 years ago that they regret. April
(26:46):
is Abortion Recovery Awareness Month, and if you click the
Green Connect link at Chris Fabriclive. Org, there's a way
to download a free copy of Cornette's forgiven and set
free resource. Maybe this is you, or maybe it's somebody
you know who needs that ministry from Carenet. I am
glad they're doing what they're doing, which is ministering pro
(27:09):
abundant life to everyone. Click the Green Care Net link
today at Chris Fabriclive. Org. Chris Fabriclive. Julia is the
creator of Rich in What matters. It's a blog. It's
a website. You can find her on Instagram and Facebook
as well. And the new book. I'm really excited about
(27:29):
it because I can just tell from the response so far.
Declutter your heart and your home is going to make
a difference. How a minimalist life yields maximum joy. Let's
go back to Linda's question about the emotional attachment you
started to talk about. And I can tell you, I'm
looking at the the two drawer filing cabinet that I have.
(27:52):
And Julia, that's the place where I squirrel the of
cards that I get and the pictures that I have
that I have no place to put yet, but I'm
going to find a place for them. And I have
a picture of my brother sent me from my parents home,
sent me a picture of my uncle. I'm my middle name.
I'm named after him, my uncle there. And what did
(28:13):
I do with that picture? Well, I couldn't figure out
where to put it, so I put it in the
the filing cabinet. And unless I make an intentional decision,
It's going to. Uncle pooch is going to stay there
for for another 5 or 10 years. And you're right,
it's it's like I have this emotional attachment to it,
but it's put away. It's gone. So I don't get
(28:33):
any of the benefit from it. So what do we
do with that?
S2 (28:39):
Yeah, it's such a great question because I think so
many of us can relate to it. Um, we do
need to keep some of that sentimental stuff. It tells
the story of our life, but we can't keep it
all because when we do, we get none of the
value out of it. It's shoved away in a file cabinet.
It's away in a box in a basement. What I've
done that's really worked well for me is I have
(29:02):
one basket of sentimental items, my very favorite things, and
I have it up on a shelf in my closet,
and I pull it down regularly, and I show my
kids the things in it, and I can show them
my grandmother's slanted handwriting on a note that she wrote me.
I can show them this little camel that I got
when I was traveling in Egypt along the Nile. So
(29:22):
the stories of my life can come to life when
I have just a few curated sentimental objects. This collection,
this curated collection, and also my kids are going to
know the things that I loved, the things that meant
the most to me because I have that basket of
them right there. So someday when they're going to inherit
(29:46):
my things, they're not going to have boxes, box after
box of things, and they're not going to have to wonder.
I wonder if mom really liked this or not. They're
going to have that box or that basket there that
has just my favorite things in it. And I think
that that will be a gift to them. But for
then for us who are wanting to let go of
those sentimental items. One tool that I've really loved that
(30:07):
has worked well is a spontaneous combustion question. And this
is from The Minimalists. And they say, hold an item
in your hand and ask yourself, how would you feel
if this item spontaneously combusted. Would you feel good? Well,
then you got to let that item go. If you
would feel devastated, that is the one you need to keep.
And if you're kind of in the middle on it,
take a picture of that item and then let it go.
(30:30):
And that's helped me out a lot because I think,
you know, fear is a real reason we hold on
to things. But the antidote to fear also is trust.
And we can also just ask God to touch our memory,
to trust him, that we will remember what it is
that he wants us to remember. And that has also
helped me let go of those things.
S6 (30:49):
Okay, so.
S1 (30:50):
That and I heard that in Linda's voice with the
Bible that she underlined and she made notes in. It's like,
I don't read that anymore, but I can't get rid
of it because, you know, and it's the fear. What
if I made this note? The pastor, you know, 20
years ago, said, And I'm going to need that one
of these days. There's a fear that we're not going
(31:10):
to have access to the thing that we really want
when we need it.
S2 (31:15):
Yeah. But then if we look at our history, have
we always had what we needed when we needed it?
Most of us can say yes, that we have, and
our loved ones also don't want us to be weighed
down by clutter. They want what's best for us if
they love us. So I think someone who has passed
away and left us our stuff, they know if we're
feeling overwhelmed, that's not what they want for us.
S6 (31:38):
Yeah.
S1 (31:39):
The whole picture thing. See, this is why, uh, my
phone keeps saying that you're you don't have any more
room in the cloud. Because I took a picture of
all the things that I was. You know, I'll take
pictures about just about anything, and I could find them
in there. Yeah. Um, but but they are out of sight.
Out of mind as well. I mean, I can find
pictures of this stuff. Why did I take a picture
(32:00):
of that? Um, this digital stuff that we have, we
have to. That's part of the clutter, isn't it?
S2 (32:08):
Yeah. Yeah. Digital clutter is real, too. And even just this,
this compulsion to constantly check our phones. I found that
as I was decluttering our outer or my my home,
if I was still tethered to my phone, if I
was filling up all that newfound time that I had
from decluttering that I really wasn't free, I wasn't really
(32:31):
feeling those benefits from decluttering our home because I was
still tethered to our to my phone. And so, yes,
I mean, we have to look at the digital clutter
as far as the pictures and all that type of stuff,
but also that inner clutter of distraction that our phones
so often can cause us to feel.
S7 (32:49):
Yeah.
S1 (32:50):
And I think that one of the main things that
you're doing here with us today, and you've written in
the book and on the, on the website and the
blog is you're showing us the positives. You're showing us
what your life might be like. And not to say
that it's perfect every time and that you don't. You know,
you always are minimalist and you only have 25% of
(33:12):
the clothes you used to have. That's not it. It's.
Am I being held back in my life, by the
way that I have lived, by the way that I've
done life and been influenced? A lot of this is nurture.
It sounds like, because you've started with your grandmother and
buying stuff was helpful for her, and she kind of
(33:34):
passed that on to you to break that chain of,
I'm going to make myself feel better by getting more stuff,
or even break the chain of letting go of that stuff,
even the sentimental things. What you're showing us is the
kind of freedom that we can have when we, as
Michael Card's saying, leave those things behind because we can't
(33:58):
take them with us anyway, right?
S2 (33:59):
Right, right. Yes. I think it's first Timothy six seven.
We brought nothing into the world, and we'll take nothing
out of it. Yes, we can bring nothing with us.
And I think what I had to do that helped
me declutter our stuff, and to finally let go was
to learn how to detach from my possessions. I was
really attached to them because I invested in the time
(34:21):
in shopping for them and the money that I spent
on them. And I finally realized after some prayer and
thinking about it more, that the things of the world,
they may be good and they may be beautiful, but
the truly good and the truly beautiful belong to a
higher world. And we can sense that goodness and that
beauty in the worldly things, but none of them last.
(34:42):
And so I began viewing my possessions more as transient
things like fireworks or bubbles or ocean waves, things that
you could observe in the moment and then let them go.
And my faith allowed me to realize that none of
them had ever been mine in the first place.
S1 (34:57):
So in a sense, it's the whole stewardship thing that
you are stewarding, those things that come into your possession,
even in you and your children. You steward them because
you have to let them go as well, right?
S2 (35:11):
Yeah, exactly. That's a good point. So I do think
that this mindset that you can apply this detachment toward
your stuff, it does filter to other areas of your life,
like your children. That's a great point, Chris.
S1 (35:22):
Julia has written declutter your heart and Your Home. It's
our featured resource. Click through today's information at Chris Fabriclive. Org.
Now don't buy this book and put it on your
shelf okay. You got to read it. You got to
put it into practice again. You can find out more
Chris Fabry lives more straight ahead on Moody Radio.
S9 (35:55):
Our remaining moments with Julie Ibengé. You don't have to pronounce.
S1 (35:59):
Her name or even spell it, but you got to remember,
declutter your heart and your home. Actually, you don't have
to remember that. You can just remember Chris Fabry live
because we have the link right there. Their lives. All right,
a couple of questions in our last segment for you, Julie,
about decluttering your heart and home. I want you to
(36:19):
speak to older listeners right now. And I've heard this
from a number of older listeners who say, I don't
want my kids to have to go through all this stuff,
but I just having a hard time going through it
and making decisions. The emotional attachment. ET cetera. ET cetera.
What do you say to those listeners?
S2 (36:39):
Mhm. Well, um, first of all, if you want to
think really clearly on why it is that you want
to declutter, and if it is a very strong reason
that you don't want to pass a bunch of clutter
down to your kids, um, you're really, really strong in that.
Why maybe journal about it even a little bit? Because
(37:01):
when your why becomes really strong, then you're more likely
to figure out a way to get it done. And
you can even they have services where you can hire
people to come in and help you work through stuff
a little bit each day and make decisions with you.
Somebody you can talk through things with. And sometimes we
just need some reasoning put behind, because a lot of
(37:23):
times we hold on to things out of emotion, and
sometimes if we hold, we're holding on to something just
in case. We just need to apply some reasoning to it.
We don't finish the sentence just in case. What? So
maybe you have eight vases and they were inherited and
you're like, I'm going to keep these eight vases just
in case one of them breaks. We'll have, have any
of them broken before. No okay. Two will do. So
(37:46):
sometimes it helps just to have somebody that you can
say things out loud to and reason with. Um, as
you declutter.
S6 (37:53):
Yes. You know.
S1 (37:54):
Uh, we had Miriam Neff. It reminds me of Miriam
because the anniversary of her husband's, uh, Bob's death was,
I think it was 19 years ago that he passed
away from ALS. And she told the story of going
through the closet and not wanting to get rid of
Bob's things. And he was very athletic and had all
(38:16):
kinds of skis, for example, snow skis. And she didn't
want to get rid of his snow skis. And her
daughter said, but mom, just think of that young kid
with size. Whatever, say 11 or 12 walks into the
the thrift store and sees those skis and think of
him going down the, you know, the ski slopes with them.
(38:37):
Wouldn't Bob be happy? And she said she was in
the car and driving because she gave her the vision
of what might happen with those rather than keeping them stored.
S2 (38:49):
Exactly. We can give our things new life again, and
I think that's what our loved ones would have wanted.
I love that new life.
S1 (38:57):
There it is. Right there. New life, even for the stuff. Uh,
and it gives us freedom and it gives helps somebody else.
All right, so talk to the person who says, I'm
married to someone who is not a minimalist and has
never been and grew up in a family that was
not minimalist. And I can see exactly what you're saying,
(39:19):
but I can't convince my spouse or a child, you know,
and their room is a wreck, you know, all the time.
What do you say to that person?
S2 (39:30):
That's real. Um, I would say, first of all, focus
on your own clutter first, because it can be surprising
how much it's actually our own stuff. That is a
lot of the clutter in the home. Sometimes we're so
focused on our loved ones, stuff that we don't see
our own. And so you can make a real difference
in your home first by starting with your own stuff.
(39:51):
And after you've done that, then I would say there's
just that modeling of a different way of living can
really go a long way. Don't assume just the first
time you ask a child or a spouse to change
their ways with stuff that they're going to. But after
they see the change that you've made and after a
while of seeing all those benefits, they might. So don't
(40:14):
assume right away if they say no, that they're always
going to say no. And then in the meantime, I
love the idea of putting up some simple systems to
help your home just flow a little bit better. If
you do have a messy spouse, maybe your spouse throws
clothes on the floor of the closet all the time.
Put a basket right in that spot where they throw
(40:35):
their clothes already, and then just ask them, hey, can
you just put your clothes in the basket instead of
on the floor? That's a really easy behavior change to
do when you put some type of a system in place,
right where the clutter is happening.
S7 (40:47):
Yeah.
S1 (40:47):
And and that the book has those kinds of, uh,
examples all through it. Declutter your heart and your home
as well as, you know, the practical thing as well
as the internal thing that's going on. Jamie's on the
line from Iowa. Jamie, why did you call today?
S10 (41:03):
Oh, I'm so glad you're having this program. Thank you
so much. And I'm going to get the book, um,
for quite some time now. I don't know what it is,
but I cannot seem to. My dining room table gets
papers on it, cluttered as well as our kitchen counter.
But I'm the type of person. If I don't, if
(41:24):
it's out of sight, I don't think about it. And
the papers that I have out generally are papers that
are important, but I don't know what to do with them.
I'm tired of the clutter.
S11 (41:36):
Who puts the papers there?
S1 (41:38):
Uh, Jamie?
S12 (41:39):
I am. It's me. Do it.
S11 (41:41):
It's not the paper fairy. Okay. All right. So she's.
S1 (41:45):
She's seen the problem, and it's in the mirror. So
what do you say, Julia?
S2 (41:49):
Yeah. Gosh, I can relate to that because I used
to do the same thing, and I am like that, too.
I need to see it or I forget it. Especially
with all the kids at home, I have my mind
on lots of things. So I set up a system
where I have one basket in any paper that comes
into our home. Goes in that basket. At first I
kept it out on top of my kitchen counter and
(42:09):
all the papers just went in that basket. But now
that I'm more used to it, I do put it
underneath a kitchen cabinet so I don't have to see it.
But then I have a routine that on the weekends
I choose. Saturday afternoon I do go through that paper.
So it's building that habit of then going through your
paper basket, and then you can do what you need
(42:30):
to do with that paper at that time. So, you know,
you're going to see that paper, you know you're going
to address it. That's when you can pay the bills.
You can file what needs filed. Um, but it's just
having a system and knowing like just empowering yourself that okay,
this paper is going to live here until the weekend
when I am going to do something with it. And
it doesn't have to just take over your home and piles.
S7 (42:52):
Okay, so she's got this.
S1 (42:53):
Pile in the dining room table. Now what does she do?
That's a good system to have down the road. But
what does what she do now?
S2 (43:01):
Yeah. Well, I would to start out, gather all the
paper in your home and put it in a basket
and put that on your kitchen counter. And there you
have that designated paper spot. But then you are going
to have to schedule some time where you can go
through that paper and make decisions with it, you know, shred,
recycle and just get down to the active papers that
(43:24):
you still need in that basket. And then you're going
to come again to that on the weekend and do
the same thing, if that makes sense.
S7 (43:31):
Jamie, do you have.
S1 (43:32):
Any of those papers? Do you have any coupons in
there for, you know, like half off oil change or
anything like that? Do you save those kinds of things?
S10 (43:41):
Uh, no. Generally, no. It's, um, like bills that are
coming due and I do the bill pay, but if
I don't see it, then it goes by the wayside. But, um,
that is a big help that at least I. I
just feel like I'm stuck. Like, I don't I don't
even know how to start, so therefore I don't.
S7 (44:04):
That's it. That's the same thing Tricia was saying.
S1 (44:06):
I'm stuck, I get overwhelmed, I don't know where to start.
And so one more time, Julia, what do you say?
For those who feel that I don't know where to start,
I'm stuck.
S2 (44:16):
Well, I would actually say, um. And I'm going to
quote Henry Ford here, but whether you think you can
or think you can't, you're right. So it's really up
to you to decide, like, hey, this is important to me,
and I'm going to make a difference in the paper
piles in my home, and I'm going to start using
this system. And, um, I think you just start that's
that's how you start. You just do it and believe
(44:37):
that you can.
S7 (44:38):
Yes.
S1 (44:39):
And and you'll be surprised at how just a little
bit of headway will make a great difference because you
start doing this in, in, you know, the dining room
table and then you get a vision for the closet
and for other things. But I think the, you know,
and this is the tips and tricks and all the
life hacks that you have in here are great. I
(45:00):
think it's the decluttering of your heart, Julia, that is
at the heart of this book, because so many of
us live in that kind of chaos, and I'm talking
to myself now.
S7 (45:12):
We live in the.
S1 (45:13):
Chaos and we've just we've always lived there. We've had
it handed down to us, and we felt like there's
no other way to live. And you're giving us an idea? No,
you don't have to live that way. You don't have to.
S7 (45:23):
Stay.
S1 (45:24):
Here. You can move forward. So thank you for writing this.
Any further thoughts before we end today?
S2 (45:31):
Gosh, I would just say, if you're feeling called to
live a lighter life with less stuff, to grab the
book and to look at those tools and those actionable steps,
and they really can help you have a life that's
more focused on who and what matters, which ultimately is
a relationship with Jesus.
S7 (45:47):
Yeah.
S1 (45:48):
Simple. There's a simple word simple minimalist is here. But
that that phrase you just used live a lighter Later life. Yeah. That's.
That calls to me today. Thank you for your work, Julia.
Come back and see us again. Okay?
S2 (46:03):
Thank you so much, Chris. It was fun.
S1 (46:05):
Declutter your heart and your home. How a minimalist life
yields maximum joy. You can find it at Chris Fabry Livorno.
Make sure you click through today's information. You'll see it there.
Or if you didn't get to hear the whole program
and you want to come back, we got the podcast
for you and links there to Julia's site as well.
(46:27):
Just go to Chris Livorno. Hey, we got a Friday
tomorrow I want you to tell me and I'm going
to post this on Facebook. I want to hear from
you the color that you see this spring, the new
life that you're finding. We'll talk about that here tomorrow
on Chris Avery live production of Moody Radio, a ministry
(46:47):
of Moody Bible Institute.
If you have clutter. I have a program for you
today at the Cluttered Radio Backyard Fence, we're going to
talk about the external and the internal clutter that vexes us,
that holds us back, that trips us up, that keeps
us in bondage, that keeps us from really enjoying life
in a way. But this is not just about paper
(00:26):
on your desk or unfolded laundry. Our guest says you
and I have unhealthy habits and addictions. That disorder. Our lives,
we live hurried. We rush to and fro. We foster
kind of an internal chaos that can come to be normal.
It just feels normal to live there and you don't
(00:47):
have to live that way. She believes we can reclaim
God's peace for our hearts and our homes. But how
do we do that? We're going to find out straight
ahead on Chris Fabry live the program from the heart
to the heart for the heart. Let's get going. Let
me clear the clutter away here so that I can
focus on our program. First, a thank you to Ryan
(01:07):
McConaughey doing all things technical. Trish is in the chair today.
Our producer Lisa will be answering your calls. And by
the way, if you do have clutter or clutter problem
or especially we got to get to this the sentimental clutter.
You know, those things you cannot throw away. What do
you do with those? I want to hear from you
at our number. I'll give you that. And then I
(01:27):
want to thank you for those who are working behind
the scenes who support this program. We can't do what
we do without you. Next Thursday is May 1st, the
National Day of Prayer. And my guess is there is
a parent or a grandparent listening right now who has
a child or grandchild who's at the top of the
(01:48):
prayer list. And you've been so concerned, so brokenhearted, perhaps
about their situation. And maybe you're weary of praying and
you feel like you pray the same thing every day.
There's a little book I want to send you titled
A Practical Guide for Praying Parents by Doctor Erwin Lutzer.
It's exactly what the title says A Practical guide. So
(02:09):
it doesn't give you a lot of philosophy. It gets
down in the trenches. It gets down on the knees
with you and your heart. But I only have a
few more days before this offer ends, so call or
click through. Give a gift of any size and we'll
send it to you. Eight 6695 Faber or go to
Chris Fabry, Livorno. If you can help us out in April,
(02:32):
that would be great. And if you're listening and you say, boy,
I need that, but I can't give right now, go
ahead and do it. Get in touch. I really want
to see how this resource will take you from being
an anxious parent to a praying parent or grandparent. So
call give a gift if you can. (866) 953-2279 or go
(02:53):
to Chris Fabry live. Last name F a b R-y.
F a b R-y. Chris Fabry live dot zero. And
thanks for your support. Her name is. And I've been
practicing this all week. Julia Ubangi Julia Ubangi is the
creator of the popular blog Rich in What Matters, and
(03:14):
that's going to be important to the program today. Her
online projects have helped people go from inner and outer
clutter to reordering their lives around what matters most. She
lives in Kansas City with her husband and their five children.
Now it was four, but there's a three month old
in the mix. Julia, welcome to the program. How are
you doing today?
S2 (03:35):
Chris, thank you so much for having me on. I'm great.
It's just a joy to be here talking with you today.
S1 (03:39):
How has that three month old changed your life so far?
S2 (03:43):
Oh my gosh, she's brought so much joy to our lives.
She is starting to smile, starting to coo. She is
just a blessing.
S1 (03:50):
That's neat. And the other kids I'm sure. I think
your oldest is 11. The other kids are probably having
a lot of fun, aren't they?
S2 (03:57):
So much fun. Yes. We're all. We're all in love
with her.
S1 (04:00):
Huh? All right. Julia. So why why this, uh. Declutter.
Declutter your Heart and Your home is the title of
the book. It's just been out for a week or
week or so. How a minimalist life yields maximum joy.
How did this all start with you?
S2 (04:16):
Well, that's a great question. It started in childhood, I
would say. I grew up close to my grandma. At
first I should say I have not always been a minimalist. Really.
I'm an unlikely minimalist. Pretty far from it. Um, and
so I grew up close to my grandma, and my
grandma loved to shop. It was her love language to
give people gifts. She bought things all the time. She
(04:37):
bought me things all the time. And so I'd spend
time with her and we would stroll the malls and
we would go shopping. And I soon learned that shopping
was fun. It was a way to feel good. It
was a way not to feel bad, to kind of
cover up hard feelings. And so I carried this mindset
with me into my 20s and I started making money.
I started spending money, and pretty soon I had all
(04:59):
this stuff and $40,000 worth of consumer debt. So when
I thought about the debt, I felt bad. But when
I felt bad, I'd go buy something new because that's
what I thought would make me feel good and make
me feel happy. And so the cycle really continued up
until the time our second daughter was born, and I
was working outside the home as a speech language pathologist
(05:19):
at the time. But I'd always wanted to stay home
with our kids. That was my dream to be a
stay at home mom and my husband got a promotion.
At the time I could stay home. I was so excited,
but I had this really idyllic vision of what stay
at home mom life would be like. So in my mind,
my daughters and I, we would be baking cookies and
(05:40):
giggling over tea parties and snuggled on the couch reading
little House on the Prairie. So in my mind, it
was just going to be great. Well, a couple of
weeks into the stay at home mom gig, I would
not have even called myself a stay at home mom.
I would have said a full time stuff manager. Would
have been a better title because Chris, that is what
I did. I was constantly looking for things. I was
(06:01):
picking things up. I was tripping over things I hadn't
picked up yet. It was all consuming. It was exhausting.
I was stressed, I was distracted like I was there,
but I wasn't really there. I couldn't really be present
to the people around me and I was just overwhelmed.
And so after living this way for a couple months,
(06:21):
I was diagnosed with postpartum depression. And I have this
memory of this morning where I was up in the
nursery in the recliner chair feeding the baby, and I
was talking with God, really pleading with God. I was like, God,
what is going on here? This is not what I
signed up for. Something needs to change. And I was
(06:41):
reading the Bible a couple verses from Luke chapter 12.
They just jumped off the page at me and they said,
your life does not consist of possessions. Be rich in
what matters. And so I paused right there, and I
asked myself, was I rich in what mattered? Was I
rich in relationships? Time for a prayer life to get
to know God. Time for a hobby that I loved.
(07:03):
And the answer was no. Absolutely not. So that planted
the seed that something in my life around the area
of possessions needed to change. But I didn't know what.
I didn't know where to go from there. But that
same week, I had a therapy appointment, and at the
end of the session, just as I was leaving, the
therapist said, Julia, have you ever heard of minimalism? And
(07:25):
I'm like, oh, you mean houses with white walls and
next to nothing in them? And she's like, no, there's
more to it than that. Look into it. I think
you might be interested. So I was curious. I did
a Google search there in the car about minimalism and
realized there's a lot of resources about it. So I
started reading books and blogs and listening to podcasts on it.
And this idea that I didn't need all this stuff
(07:47):
to be happy, and in fact, I'd be a whole
lot happier with less of it, because then I'd have
more time and energy to focus on who and what mattered.
It was a mindset shift that was life changing, and
it finally gave me a vision of how to get
out from under all this stress and anxiety that I
was feeling at the time. So I went all in
(08:08):
on minimalism and I started a blog. At the time,
I called it Rich in What Matters, based on the
Bible verse that spoke to me. And we got rid
of 75% of our stuff over the course of the
first year. Then we downsized to an apartment home for
a couple of years, got rid of our consumer debt,
and then built our own intentionally smaller new home. And
(08:29):
so we've been living this way as a minimalist family
now for six years. And we have five kids ages 11, seven, four, three,
and three months. So that's my story of how I
got to where I am now. And now we have
this book that I'm so excited about.
S1 (08:43):
That's your story and you're sticking to it. Okay. I
got a I got a million questions. One is about
your husband and the. And is he the same as you?
Don't answer that now, because we're going to take a break.
The other is, how do I know I'm living a
cluttered life? And you gave us a clue right there.
And it was. You felt it wasn't just the external
(09:03):
that you couldn't find, you know, the baby's nook or
the formula or whatever it was you were looking for
the diapers. There was this feeling of, I'm not really here. I'm.
I'm not present. And add to that the stress and
the anxiety that was going on on the inside. And
you can see you want to be a really good mom,
(09:25):
but you're not able to be there. And it's not
all about the stuff, you know, you can have like
nothing on the walls, like you said, not even any carpet. Uh,
and it sounds like you do have furniture because I'm
not hearing a lot of room noise when you. Your
microphone open, but, um, it's it's not just the stuff.
And that's why I wanted to have you on to
(09:47):
talk about not just decluttering your home, because that's important,
and I want you to help me with my desk again,
because Dana White has helped me before. But it's declutter
your heart. How do I declutter my heart? And that's
what we're going to talk about today. If you want
to talk with Julia, call us at (877) 548-3675. If you go,
(10:09):
this is ringing in your soul, in your heart today,
go to Chris Fabry live.org. Click through today's information. You'll
see the book right there. Declutter your heart and your home.
More straight ahead on Moody Radio.
S3 (10:33):
She's the creator of the Rich.
S1 (10:34):
In What Matters blog the website. We have it linked
at Chris Julia and it looks like UB Benga You'd
be Benga. In case you're looking for her online. But
it's urban. Gay is how you pronounce it. Declutter your
heart and your home. How a minimalist life yields maximum joy.
(10:59):
And I'm going to open the phone lines here in
a minute. Uh, (877) 548-3675. So answer that question. How do
I know I live a cluttered life? Because a lot
of people who have cluttered lives can't see it.
S2 (11:12):
Mhm. Yeah, I think it does all start with how
you're feeling inside. And it's interesting to ask that question
because we live in a time that has more stuff,
a culture that has more possessions than any culture in
the history of the world. The average home in America
now has over 300,000 things in it, and we're not
(11:34):
made to manage that much stuff. But you're right. If
we're not really if we just become used to it,
we don't realize the effect that it's having on us.
And they're starting to do studies on this. There was
a study recently out of Yale that showed that our
brains expend so much energy trying to ignore the visual
stimuli in a cluttered environment. So even if you're not
(11:55):
focusing on the clutter, your brain is still working hard
to ignore it. And that can make us feel tired.
It can make us feel distracted. And so first, just
knowing what does our clutter do to us? It is
not neutral. That is so, so important. And then we
can feel just are we living a life that's focused
(12:15):
on what matters? Or do we feel like we're constantly
just cleaning stuff, managing stuff? We weren't made for, that
we weren't made or designed for survival mode. So if
we feel like we are stuck in that, I think
a good, a good spot to start is looking at
our clutter and seeing if we can clear some of
that to live lighter.
S1 (12:35):
Yeah, well, what about Albert Einstein? I always hear this.
You look at Albert Einstein's desk and how cluttered it was,
and he was a genius. Uh, are you saying he
would have gotten more done if he lived a less
cluttered life?
S2 (12:48):
Well, I don't know, but I, as a mom personally,
I know that everything I see, like in my kitchen
or in my home, it speaks to me. It's like
a to do. So maybe Einstein's weren't to do's. They
were stuff that were helping him create. Possibly. But for
me these are to do's. It's the dishes. Got to
do the dishes. Got to put the laundry away. And
it's almost like I'm sitting at a desk with emails
(13:08):
just constantly coming in, and I am just flooded, overwhelmed,
and and I can't focus on the people around me. So, um,
for me personally, that clutter isn't neutral and it does
lead to some stress.
S1 (13:20):
Yeah, I'll tell you, that's what I it took me
a long time to finally get a desk. I had
this old beat up desk and it was very small.
And I thought, if I get a bigger desk, then
I'm going to, you know, be it's going to be
easier for me. And that's one thing that Dana Dana
White said. There is no magic desk. Chris, you got
to you got to handle this clutter. But when I
(13:42):
started implementing some of the things that she was saying
and having the desk cleared off, what happened when I
would walk in in the morning or any time, you know,
if I was on a trip and I came back
in and I saw the clean desk, it was like, ah,
I don't I don't have to spend time, you know,
fixing this or that or putting that away. It's like, ah,
(14:02):
I can just sit down and and there is this
anti-stress feeling that comes over you when you do it,
just a little bit of the work that needs to
be done. Right.
S2 (14:13):
Aha. Yes. It's like this outer order brings this inner calm. Exactly.
S1 (14:18):
Okay. So were you and your husband the same? You know, it's, uh, stuff.
Was your love language? Was it his? And did you
have a hard time getting on the same page?
S2 (14:28):
Hmm. That's a great question, Chris. I would say that
he did buy stuff just about as much as I did,
and he knew that I liked to, and he liked to.
And we would just have fun spending money. Really. And, um,
he was skeptical of me at first when I said
I was going to make this lifestyle change. And it
took him a while to get on board, but what
(14:48):
he noticed was that I was changing. I was changing
in the home. I became more fun to be around.
I became more present. Uh, before decluttering, I would ask
him about his day and he would answer me, but
I wouldn't really hear what he was saying. I was
too distracted by the stuff in our home. And then
as I started to declutter, I started noticing the details
(15:10):
of his life. And I could ask him specifically, maybe
about how a meeting went and I could use the
name of the client. And he began seeing that. I
was able to see the details and to care more
about him, and just had a stronger relationship when our
home wasn't cluttered. And that helped him get on board.
And now he is on board.
S1 (15:29):
Was it hard to get rid of stuff when you
say 75% of stuff, it was like, did you like
like couches and chairs or more like clothing and things
like that.
S2 (15:42):
All of the above. We we downsize. So we were
just ready to just keep what we loved. The minimum really.
Most of us use 20% of our stuff anyway. If
you think about your closet, what do you wear? Of
your wardrobe? You wear the same 20% of your wardrobe
every day anyway. And so, um, yeah, it was all
(16:04):
types of stuff. We just got down to that 20%.
That was our favorite.
S1 (16:08):
I'm smiling because I wear about 5% I have.
S4 (16:12):
Oh, there you go. Yeah.
S1 (16:13):
I have, you know, about, uh, a few shorts and
some Carhartt shirts, and I'm good. You know, that's that's
all I need. Um, so. But I still have. I
still have some other nice stuff. So 75% of the stuff. See,
that's going to scare some people. It's like this. This
Julia that you're talking with, she's crazy. She wants us
to get rid of 75% of everything that we own.
(16:34):
I can't do that.
S2 (16:36):
Yeah, you don't have to. Minimalism isn't about your stuff, ultimately, anyway.
It's just a tool to live your life with intention.
It's about clearing out the things in your life that
don't matter, to make space in your life for the
things that do matter. So that can be your possessions,
but it can be your calendar commitments. It can be
your self-talk thoughts. So really, it's just a tool to
live your life with intention. You don't have to get
(16:57):
rid of all your stuff, just the stuff that is
not serving you that is not essential in your life
so that you have space for what is.
S1 (17:04):
Yes, which takes us to. Tricia and Tricia and I
are very much alike. We we hang on to the
books that, you know, that I got for ten years ago,
that I'm sure I'm going to do this on this
program are still here, and I haven't done done them
on the program. Tricia struggles with the same thing. So, Tricia,
what's your question?
S5 (17:22):
Well, my question is I see the need to downsize
and get rid of some of the clutter and clear
it out. And I know that it would help me
in these things like you're talking about, but I get
so overwhelmed by the stuff. And this is I mean,
it's all of it. I was just telling Ryan in
(17:42):
the control room how many tabs I have open on
my on my browser, on my computer, just sitting in here.
And they're the things that I need to remember. And
I feel like if I clear it up, um, all
of it, I'd be able to think and process more
clearly if I didn't have the visual stuff and I
didn't have the tabs open, and I didn't have all
of these extra things. But I get so overwhelmed at
(18:03):
where to start, because I'll sit down to work on
something and it's like, oh, wait, but I need to
do this first. Oh wait, I need to do this
before I can do that. And then I just get
so overwhelmed by all of it that I end up
doing nothing. Or, you know, I'll close three tabs like, hey,
it's not really an accomplishment because there's still all the
other ones, but I mean, it's everything. It's it's my kitchen.
(18:25):
It's my it's the laundry. It's it's my office. It's
the books. Like Chris was talking about, like how how
can I even. It's my brain. How do I stop
to be able to even start on one? To be
able to follow through on it and get past that
overwhelmed feeling?
S2 (18:44):
Yeah, that's a great question. And that's why I love
this book, because it really is a guide. It's just
full of practical tools and actionable steps. It'll show you
how to work through this process of decluttering your home.
And I would say, first of all, what I found
most helpful is start in the area of your home
that is causing you the most stress. Because I had
(19:05):
always read that if you started in a small like
in contained non-sentimental area, that would be great. So I
tried the kitchen drawer first and I had all these
feel goods from finishing a decluttering project. I had this
organized kitchen drawer, but then I turned around and my
home was just overrun with kids stuff, kids clothes, kids toys,
kids artwork. So I realized that to make real functional
(19:26):
change in my home and to stay motivated to keep decluttering,
I needed to declutter in the area of in the
order of the categories of clutter that were causing me
the most stress, so I just wrote them on a
piece of paper. I numbered them ten was the most
stressful area, one was the least, and I went in
that order. So kids clothes was first for me. So
that's how I would, I would say to get started
(19:49):
and then try for just 15 minutes a day. Like
we all have a lot going on, but 15 minutes
a day is doable, and 15 minutes a day of
decluttering adds up to 7.5 hours a month, which is
90 hours a year. And you can get a lot
done in 90 hours. So the small, consistent efforts, they
lead to those big changes.
S1 (20:09):
And if you have a time in mind, you know,
say 15 minutes a day, it's like, well, I only
have 15 minutes. And you you jump into that and
you're focused on that and you do in those 15
minutes more than you would if you set aside an hour.
And then you took a phone call. ET cetera. ET cetera. Right.
S2 (20:27):
Yeah. Yeah, you can be super efficient. You've got a plan.
Just during those 15 minutes, you get it done and
you can make real change in your home that way.
S6 (20:33):
Okay, Tricia.
S1 (20:34):
So what is your number one? What is the place
in the house that you feel like this is the
biggest deal?
S5 (20:43):
Goodness. Um. The goodness. Oh, man. Um, I, I think
it's I think it's kids kill. I think it's clothes.
Mine and my kids clothes. Yeah. Um, because I have,
I have an 11 year old girl and an eight
year old girl. And then there's a boy in between. Um,
(21:04):
but I have then I'm holding on to the clothes from.
From the older one. For the younger one, you know,
because I don't want to go out and buy new
clothes because these are fine and they're still in good condition.
And so I've got like this when you swap out
the sizes. And so I'm like in between seasons right now.
And so it ends up feeling like there's just so
(21:25):
many pieces of clothing between.
S7 (21:28):
What do you do with that then, Julie?
S1 (21:30):
What do you do with you? Want to save the the. Hand-me-downs.
But they're not going to be used for at least
two years. What do you do with those?
S2 (21:39):
Yeah, well, you can save some, but don't keep it all.
I save maybe four five of the max outfits. Per size.
Per kid. Because what I find is a lot of
times grandparents want to buy the kids a. Gift at
birthday time and clothes are a perfect gift. So I
am constantly asking, hey, will you get this child some
(22:01):
new clothes? And so if we have some gaps in
the wardrobe. Grandparents are more than happy to fill in.
And so for me that works. Um, thrift stores are
also great. You can get a kid's wardrobe for a
very affordable price if you want, and a thrift store.
So that's those are the resources I use and I
really keep a minimal amount. Just my very favorite outfits
(22:22):
are the ones that are in the best condition.
S1 (22:25):
But that is a change of mindset. Then you're saying
is you've got this has to be an intentional thing.
This doesn't come naturally to many of us. You have
to make choices. And so I'm going to open the
phone lines (877) 548-3675. Julie Ibengé is with us. Declutter your
heart and your home. She's already fixed Trisha's life. Now,
(22:48):
now we're going to move to Linda in Ohio. Linda,
why did you call today?
S8 (22:54):
Um, so the reason I called. Because I can't even
believe I tuned into this today, because this has been
a preoccupation in my mind for a while. And I
have things that I'm emotionally attached to, and I know it.
And I don't know exactly what to do about it. Um,
my parents passed away in the last couple of years,
(23:15):
and I ended up buying their condominium. So I had
my stuff, their stuff, our stuff, all this stuff. And
I have one spare room. I go in there to exercise,
and I just look around that room and I'm like, okay,
I can't get rid of that. That was my mom's.
I can't. I'm really attached to books. I'm extremely attached
to Bibles. So I have a Bible that I use
for years and I'm not using it anymore. But boy,
(23:37):
when I did use it, I underlined it and I
was all the way through that Bible and it meant
something to me. And now I can't get rid of
that Bible. So I have this emotional attachment to stuff
that it's as the last caller called, called and said,
it's sometimes it's just like overwhelming. I just I'm not
(23:59):
sure what to do. And then I start on a rampage.
I've even taken books to the to the thrift shop
and went back and bought them again. I can't even
believe I can't even believe I did that, but I
was like, I can't even get this book anymore. What
was I thinking to give that book away? And so
I went to the thrift shop before they sold it,
and I bought my own book back, you know, and, um.
S3 (24:21):
I hope you got a good deal on it. Linda. Uh, it.
S8 (24:23):
Wasn't bad, but but it was stupid. But it wasn't
a bad price.
S3 (24:28):
But no, it's not stupid. No, no, don't say that. See,
that's the self-talk that Julie is going to talk about too.
S1 (24:34):
No, this is your. You see the struggle though. See,
you've you've.
S3 (24:39):
Identified.
S1 (24:39):
The struggle and and it's kind of bad, especially with
the books and the emotional attachment. So I've got a
minute before we need to take a break here. Julie,
why don't you start?
S2 (24:50):
Yeah, well, first of all, she's not alone. Sentimental items
are so difficult for people to let go of because
we think that our memories are held in our possessions,
but our memories aren't held in our possessions. They're held
within us. But we're afraid that if we let go
of the item, we're going to lose our memory of
that item or that person that is attached to that thing.
(25:12):
And so I would say just the thing that happens
with sentimental items is that we box them away and
we don't actually get that emotional value from the things
because so many of them are just boxed away in
our basement or in our garage. And so if we
can think about what we want to keep, just keeping
our very favorite things and putting them in a place
(25:34):
we can display them, and then take a picture of
the other things and donate those. That can really.
S1 (25:39):
Help. You got to go really slowly for me there
because you're speaking my love language too. So, Linda, hang on.
I want you to hear more from Julia Ubbink declutter
your heart and your home as our topic today on
Chris Fabry Live.
S6 (26:04):
Well, we had some.
S1 (26:04):
Great conversations this week. I hope today's decluttering discussion is
touching a nerve for you. This emotional attachment idea that
Linda called about something that I knew we had to
talk about, I. I feel her pain. It's my love
language too. And you know what? Each day we introduce
you to guests and ideas and ministries that are really
(26:24):
making a difference in people's lives. Carenet is one of
those they call their approach. Pro abundant life because they
want to help the unborn. Absolutely. But they also want
to help everybody else in the equation of life. And
that includes those who made a decision last week or
last year or 30 years ago that they regret. April
(26:46):
is Abortion Recovery Awareness Month, and if you click the
Green Connect link at Chris Fabriclive. Org, there's a way
to download a free copy of Cornette's forgiven and set
free resource. Maybe this is you, or maybe it's somebody
you know who needs that ministry from Carenet. I am
glad they're doing what they're doing, which is ministering pro
(27:09):
abundant life to everyone. Click the Green Care Net link
today at Chris Fabriclive. Org. Chris Fabriclive. Julia is the
creator of Rich in What matters. It's a blog. It's
a website. You can find her on Instagram and Facebook
as well. And the new book. I'm really excited about
(27:29):
it because I can just tell from the response so far.
Declutter your heart and your home is going to make
a difference. How a minimalist life yields maximum joy. Let's
go back to Linda's question about the emotional attachment you
started to talk about. And I can tell you, I'm
looking at the the two drawer filing cabinet that I have.
(27:52):
And Julia, that's the place where I squirrel the of
cards that I get and the pictures that I have
that I have no place to put yet, but I'm
going to find a place for them. And I have
a picture of my brother sent me from my parents home,
sent me a picture of my uncle. I'm my middle name.
I'm named after him, my uncle there. And what did
(28:13):
I do with that picture? Well, I couldn't figure out
where to put it, so I put it in the
the filing cabinet. And unless I make an intentional decision,
It's going to. Uncle pooch is going to stay there
for for another 5 or 10 years. And you're right,
it's it's like I have this emotional attachment to it,
but it's put away. It's gone. So I don't get
(28:33):
any of the benefit from it. So what do we
do with that?
S2 (28:39):
Yeah, it's such a great question because I think so
many of us can relate to it. Um, we do
need to keep some of that sentimental stuff. It tells
the story of our life, but we can't keep it
all because when we do, we get none of the
value out of it. It's shoved away in a file cabinet.
It's away in a box in a basement. What I've
done that's really worked well for me is I have
(29:02):
one basket of sentimental items, my very favorite things, and
I have it up on a shelf in my closet,
and I pull it down regularly, and I show my
kids the things in it, and I can show them
my grandmother's slanted handwriting on a note that she wrote me.
I can show them this little camel that I got
when I was traveling in Egypt along the Nile. So
(29:22):
the stories of my life can come to life when
I have just a few curated sentimental objects. This collection,
this curated collection, and also my kids are going to
know the things that I loved, the things that meant
the most to me because I have that basket of
them right there. So someday when they're going to inherit
(29:46):
my things, they're not going to have boxes, box after
box of things, and they're not going to have to wonder.
I wonder if mom really liked this or not. They're
going to have that box or that basket there that
has just my favorite things in it. And I think
that that will be a gift to them. But for
then for us who are wanting to let go of
those sentimental items. One tool that I've really loved that
(30:07):
has worked well is a spontaneous combustion question. And this
is from The Minimalists. And they say, hold an item
in your hand and ask yourself, how would you feel
if this item spontaneously combusted. Would you feel good? Well,
then you got to let that item go. If you
would feel devastated, that is the one you need to keep.
And if you're kind of in the middle on it,
take a picture of that item and then let it go.
(30:30):
And that's helped me out a lot because I think,
you know, fear is a real reason we hold on
to things. But the antidote to fear also is trust.
And we can also just ask God to touch our memory,
to trust him, that we will remember what it is
that he wants us to remember. And that has also
helped me let go of those things.
S6 (30:49):
Okay, so.
S1 (30:50):
That and I heard that in Linda's voice with the
Bible that she underlined and she made notes in. It's like,
I don't read that anymore, but I can't get rid
of it because, you know, and it's the fear. What
if I made this note? The pastor, you know, 20
years ago, said, And I'm going to need that one
of these days. There's a fear that we're not going
(31:10):
to have access to the thing that we really want
when we need it.
S2 (31:15):
Yeah. But then if we look at our history, have
we always had what we needed when we needed it?
Most of us can say yes, that we have, and
our loved ones also don't want us to be weighed
down by clutter. They want what's best for us if
they love us. So I think someone who has passed
away and left us our stuff, they know if we're
feeling overwhelmed, that's not what they want for us.
S6 (31:38):
Yeah.
S1 (31:39):
The whole picture thing. See, this is why, uh, my
phone keeps saying that you're you don't have any more
room in the cloud. Because I took a picture of
all the things that I was. You know, I'll take
pictures about just about anything, and I could find them
in there. Yeah. Um, but but they are out of sight.
Out of mind as well. I mean, I can find
pictures of this stuff. Why did I take a picture
(32:00):
of that? Um, this digital stuff that we have, we
have to. That's part of the clutter, isn't it?
S2 (32:08):
Yeah. Yeah. Digital clutter is real, too. And even just this,
this compulsion to constantly check our phones. I found that
as I was decluttering our outer or my my home,
if I was still tethered to my phone, if I
was filling up all that newfound time that I had
from decluttering that I really wasn't free, I wasn't really
(32:31):
feeling those benefits from decluttering our home because I was
still tethered to our to my phone. And so, yes,
I mean, we have to look at the digital clutter
as far as the pictures and all that type of stuff,
but also that inner clutter of distraction that our phones
so often can cause us to feel.
S7 (32:49):
Yeah.
S1 (32:50):
And I think that one of the main things that
you're doing here with us today, and you've written in
the book and on the, on the website and the
blog is you're showing us the positives. You're showing us
what your life might be like. And not to say
that it's perfect every time and that you don't. You know,
you always are minimalist and you only have 25% of
(33:12):
the clothes you used to have. That's not it. It's.
Am I being held back in my life, by the
way that I have lived, by the way that I've
done life and been influenced? A lot of this is nurture.
It sounds like, because you've started with your grandmother and
buying stuff was helpful for her, and she kind of
(33:34):
passed that on to you to break that chain of,
I'm going to make myself feel better by getting more stuff,
or even break the chain of letting go of that stuff,
even the sentimental things. What you're showing us is the
kind of freedom that we can have when we, as
Michael Card's saying, leave those things behind because we can't
(33:58):
take them with us anyway, right?
S2 (33:59):
Right, right. Yes. I think it's first Timothy six seven.
We brought nothing into the world, and we'll take nothing
out of it. Yes, we can bring nothing with us.
And I think what I had to do that helped
me declutter our stuff, and to finally let go was
to learn how to detach from my possessions. I was
really attached to them because I invested in the time
(34:21):
in shopping for them and the money that I spent
on them. And I finally realized after some prayer and
thinking about it more, that the things of the world,
they may be good and they may be beautiful, but
the truly good and the truly beautiful belong to a
higher world. And we can sense that goodness and that
beauty in the worldly things, but none of them last.
(34:42):
And so I began viewing my possessions more as transient
things like fireworks or bubbles or ocean waves, things that
you could observe in the moment and then let them go.
And my faith allowed me to realize that none of
them had ever been mine in the first place.
S1 (34:57):
So in a sense, it's the whole stewardship thing that
you are stewarding, those things that come into your possession,
even in you and your children. You steward them because
you have to let them go as well, right?
S2 (35:11):
Yeah, exactly. That's a good point. So I do think
that this mindset that you can apply this detachment toward
your stuff, it does filter to other areas of your life,
like your children. That's a great point, Chris.
S1 (35:22):
Julia has written declutter your heart and Your Home. It's
our featured resource. Click through today's information at Chris Fabriclive. Org.
Now don't buy this book and put it on your
shelf okay. You got to read it. You got to
put it into practice again. You can find out more
Chris Fabry lives more straight ahead on Moody Radio.
S9 (35:55):
Our remaining moments with Julie Ibengé. You don't have to pronounce.
S1 (35:59):
Her name or even spell it, but you got to remember,
declutter your heart and your home. Actually, you don't have
to remember that. You can just remember Chris Fabry live
because we have the link right there. Their lives. All right,
a couple of questions in our last segment for you, Julie,
about decluttering your heart and home. I want you to
(36:19):
speak to older listeners right now. And I've heard this
from a number of older listeners who say, I don't
want my kids to have to go through all this stuff,
but I just having a hard time going through it
and making decisions. The emotional attachment. ET cetera. ET cetera.
What do you say to those listeners?
S2 (36:39):
Mhm. Well, um, first of all, if you want to
think really clearly on why it is that you want
to declutter, and if it is a very strong reason
that you don't want to pass a bunch of clutter
down to your kids, um, you're really, really strong in that.
Why maybe journal about it even a little bit? Because
(37:01):
when your why becomes really strong, then you're more likely
to figure out a way to get it done. And
you can even they have services where you can hire
people to come in and help you work through stuff
a little bit each day and make decisions with you.
Somebody you can talk through things with. And sometimes we
just need some reasoning put behind, because a lot of
(37:23):
times we hold on to things out of emotion, and
sometimes if we hold, we're holding on to something just
in case. We just need to apply some reasoning to it.
We don't finish the sentence just in case. What? So
maybe you have eight vases and they were inherited and
you're like, I'm going to keep these eight vases just
in case one of them breaks. We'll have, have any
of them broken before. No okay. Two will do. So
(37:46):
sometimes it helps just to have somebody that you can
say things out loud to and reason with. Um, as
you declutter.
S6 (37:53):
Yes. You know.
S1 (37:54):
Uh, we had Miriam Neff. It reminds me of Miriam
because the anniversary of her husband's, uh, Bob's death was,
I think it was 19 years ago that he passed
away from ALS. And she told the story of going
through the closet and not wanting to get rid of
Bob's things. And he was very athletic and had all
(38:16):
kinds of skis, for example, snow skis. And she didn't
want to get rid of his snow skis. And her
daughter said, but mom, just think of that young kid
with size. Whatever, say 11 or 12 walks into the
the thrift store and sees those skis and think of
him going down the, you know, the ski slopes with them.
(38:37):
Wouldn't Bob be happy? And she said she was in
the car and driving because she gave her the vision
of what might happen with those rather than keeping them stored.
S2 (38:49):
Exactly. We can give our things new life again, and
I think that's what our loved ones would have wanted.
I love that new life.
S1 (38:57):
There it is. Right there. New life, even for the stuff. Uh,
and it gives us freedom and it gives helps somebody else.
All right, so talk to the person who says, I'm
married to someone who is not a minimalist and has
never been and grew up in a family that was
not minimalist. And I can see exactly what you're saying,
(39:19):
but I can't convince my spouse or a child, you know,
and their room is a wreck, you know, all the time.
What do you say to that person?
S2 (39:30):
That's real. Um, I would say, first of all, focus
on your own clutter first, because it can be surprising
how much it's actually our own stuff. That is a
lot of the clutter in the home. Sometimes we're so
focused on our loved ones, stuff that we don't see
our own. And so you can make a real difference
in your home first by starting with your own stuff.
(39:51):
And after you've done that, then I would say there's
just that modeling of a different way of living can
really go a long way. Don't assume just the first
time you ask a child or a spouse to change
their ways with stuff that they're going to. But after
they see the change that you've made and after a
while of seeing all those benefits, they might. So don't
(40:14):
assume right away if they say no, that they're always
going to say no. And then in the meantime, I
love the idea of putting up some simple systems to
help your home just flow a little bit better. If
you do have a messy spouse, maybe your spouse throws
clothes on the floor of the closet all the time.
Put a basket right in that spot where they throw
(40:35):
their clothes already, and then just ask them, hey, can
you just put your clothes in the basket instead of
on the floor? That's a really easy behavior change to
do when you put some type of a system in place,
right where the clutter is happening.
S7 (40:47):
Yeah.
S1 (40:47):
And and that the book has those kinds of, uh,
examples all through it. Declutter your heart and your home
as well as, you know, the practical thing as well
as the internal thing that's going on. Jamie's on the
line from Iowa. Jamie, why did you call today?
S10 (41:03):
Oh, I'm so glad you're having this program. Thank you
so much. And I'm going to get the book, um,
for quite some time now. I don't know what it is,
but I cannot seem to. My dining room table gets
papers on it, cluttered as well as our kitchen counter.
But I'm the type of person. If I don't, if
(41:24):
it's out of sight, I don't think about it. And
the papers that I have out generally are papers that
are important, but I don't know what to do with them.
I'm tired of the clutter.
S11 (41:36):
Who puts the papers there?
S1 (41:38):
Uh, Jamie?
S12 (41:39):
I am. It's me. Do it.
S11 (41:41):
It's not the paper fairy. Okay. All right. So she's.
S1 (41:45):
She's seen the problem, and it's in the mirror. So
what do you say, Julia?
S2 (41:49):
Yeah. Gosh, I can relate to that because I used
to do the same thing, and I am like that, too.
I need to see it or I forget it. Especially
with all the kids at home, I have my mind
on lots of things. So I set up a system
where I have one basket in any paper that comes
into our home. Goes in that basket. At first I
kept it out on top of my kitchen counter and
(42:09):
all the papers just went in that basket. But now
that I'm more used to it, I do put it
underneath a kitchen cabinet so I don't have to see it.
But then I have a routine that on the weekends
I choose. Saturday afternoon I do go through that paper.
So it's building that habit of then going through your
paper basket, and then you can do what you need
(42:30):
to do with that paper at that time. So, you know,
you're going to see that paper, you know you're going
to address it. That's when you can pay the bills.
You can file what needs filed. Um, but it's just
having a system and knowing like just empowering yourself that okay,
this paper is going to live here until the weekend
when I am going to do something with it. And
it doesn't have to just take over your home and piles.
S7 (42:52):
Okay, so she's got this.
S1 (42:53):
Pile in the dining room table. Now what does she do?
That's a good system to have down the road. But
what does what she do now?
S2 (43:01):
Yeah. Well, I would to start out, gather all the
paper in your home and put it in a basket
and put that on your kitchen counter. And there you
have that designated paper spot. But then you are going
to have to schedule some time where you can go
through that paper and make decisions with it, you know, shred,
recycle and just get down to the active papers that
(43:24):
you still need in that basket. And then you're going
to come again to that on the weekend and do
the same thing, if that makes sense.
S7 (43:31):
Jamie, do you have.
S1 (43:32):
Any of those papers? Do you have any coupons in
there for, you know, like half off oil change or
anything like that? Do you save those kinds of things?
S10 (43:41):
Uh, no. Generally, no. It's, um, like bills that are
coming due and I do the bill pay, but if
I don't see it, then it goes by the wayside. But, um,
that is a big help that at least I. I
just feel like I'm stuck. Like, I don't I don't
even know how to start, so therefore I don't.
S7 (44:04):
That's it. That's the same thing Tricia was saying.
S1 (44:06):
I'm stuck, I get overwhelmed, I don't know where to start.
And so one more time, Julia, what do you say?
For those who feel that I don't know where to start,
I'm stuck.
S2 (44:16):
Well, I would actually say, um. And I'm going to
quote Henry Ford here, but whether you think you can
or think you can't, you're right. So it's really up
to you to decide, like, hey, this is important to me,
and I'm going to make a difference in the paper
piles in my home, and I'm going to start using
this system. And, um, I think you just start that's
that's how you start. You just do it and believe
(44:37):
that you can.
S7 (44:38):
Yes.
S1 (44:39):
And and you'll be surprised at how just a little
bit of headway will make a great difference because you
start doing this in, in, you know, the dining room
table and then you get a vision for the closet
and for other things. But I think the, you know,
and this is the tips and tricks and all the
life hacks that you have in here are great. I
(45:00):
think it's the decluttering of your heart, Julia, that is
at the heart of this book, because so many of
us live in that kind of chaos, and I'm talking
to myself now.
S7 (45:12):
We live in the.
S1 (45:13):
Chaos and we've just we've always lived there. We've had
it handed down to us, and we felt like there's
no other way to live. And you're giving us an idea? No,
you don't have to live that way. You don't have to.
S7 (45:23):
Stay.
S1 (45:24):
Here. You can move forward. So thank you for writing this.
Any further thoughts before we end today?
S2 (45:31):
Gosh, I would just say, if you're feeling called to
live a lighter life with less stuff, to grab the
book and to look at those tools and those actionable steps,
and they really can help you have a life that's
more focused on who and what matters, which ultimately is
a relationship with Jesus.
S7 (45:47):
Yeah.
S1 (45:48):
Simple. There's a simple word simple minimalist is here. But
that that phrase you just used live a lighter Later life. Yeah. That's.
That calls to me today. Thank you for your work, Julia.
Come back and see us again. Okay?
S2 (46:03):
Thank you so much, Chris. It was fun.
S1 (46:05):
Declutter your heart and your home. How a minimalist life
yields maximum joy. You can find it at Chris Fabry Livorno.
Make sure you click through today's information. You'll see it there.
Or if you didn't get to hear the whole program
and you want to come back, we got the podcast
for you and links there to Julia's site as well.
(46:27):
Just go to Chris Livorno. Hey, we got a Friday
tomorrow I want you to tell me and I'm going
to post this on Facebook. I want to hear from
you the color that you see this spring, the new
life that you're finding. We'll talk about that here tomorrow
on Chris Avery live production of Moody Radio, a ministry
(46:47):
of Moody Bible Institute.
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