May 7, 2025 • 46 mins
Through the years on Chris Fabry Live, one guest has consistently generated a heartfelt response from listeners. Dr. Winfred Neely returns with retirement news and lessons from a life of pastoring and teaching. Something good always happens when Dr. Neely is in the house. If you are anxious and need some encouragement and a little wisdom, don't miss the conversation on Chris Fabry Live.
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:05):
Welcome to our Wednesday edition of Chris Fabry Live program
from the heart for the heart to the heart. For
more than 17 years now, we've been coming to you
with topics and guests who engage at that level. A
level of the heart and returning. Today is one of
my favorite people on the planet. As soon as he
joined me a few years ago, I could tell there's
something different about this guy. There's something special, and one
(00:26):
thing that's happened is the way listeners, the way you
have responded to his conversations, there is a depth of
pain and struggle that people call in about you. Feel
free to be yourself with him. And I think part
of that is the vulnerability of Doctor Winifred Neely. Something
good always happens when he joins me, and today we
(00:48):
have news from him. We'll get to that. And I
want to feature him as a modified Voices of Wisdom guest.
He's not that far down the trail from me, but
I want to hear what he has to say. So
let's get going. First, a thank you to Ryan McConaughey.
Doing all things technical. Tricia is our producer. Deb, Solomon's
in the chair today. Anthony, you'll be answering your calls
on Monday. We celebrated 17 years of Chris Fabry live.
(01:11):
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looked at the number and I thought, now why did
Holly give that number? And I did my long division.
I had to write it down, and I figured out
(01:32):
that Holly gave 17 times. 26 Holly, you get a
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Give a gift of any size, but especially if it's
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is the beautifully illustrated book Home Is Right Where You Are.
(01:56):
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You know, the one that you read to kids, but
this is God will love you forever, wherever you are.
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(02:19):
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(02:41):
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(03:02):
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Doctor Winfred Nealy is vice president and dean of Moody
Theological Seminary. Former senior pastor of Judson Baptist Church in
Oak Park, Illinois. Served as a missionary and pastor to Senegal,
West Africa, for nine years. He and his wife, Stephanie
have been married for 48 years, almost 49. They have
(03:26):
four adult children, ten grandchildren. That may have changed. He's
the author of How to Overcome Worry Experiencing the Peace
of God in Every Situation. Doctor Neeley, welcome back. How
you doing today?
S2 (03:37):
I'm very well, Chris. Thank you for having me on
with you today, sir. It's always an honor for me.
S1 (03:43):
It's more than an honor. It's an adventure for me
because you always take us to some place good. And
a little bird told me that this whole vice president
and dean of Moody Theological Seminary. This. There is something
about the big R word. The retirement. Is that true?
Is there any truth to that?
S2 (04:01):
Well, yes. Uh, June 30th of this year will be
my last day of full time service at Moody Bible Institute,
and I will be stepping away from my administrative and
leadership roles at Moody Theological Seminary. And but I will
(04:24):
continue on as an adjunct professor, adjunct emeritus in a
very limited in a in a limited capacity. But yes,
June 30th I'm stepping away from all leadership and responsibilities retiring.
I you know, I don't like the oral word. I
(04:46):
don't like that. You know, I'm really not retiring. I'm transitioning.
Yes to a new season of of ministry before the
Lord is what's what's happening here.
S1 (05:00):
I like retreading. Yeah. You're going to get. But you know,
there are other people who are in this this this season.
Tis the season. And what I hear from them more
and more is I'm releasing some duties that I feel
like aren't in the wheelhouse of, of my gifting as much.
They constrain me more. And I'm moving toward things that
(05:21):
bring joy and life and verve to my soul. Uh,
and I can do that at this season of my life.
Does that describe a little bit of what you're doing?
S2 (05:31):
Well? Well, actually, yes and no. I love leadership, I
love leading Moody Theological Seminary, and I'm still I was
still teaching, still teaching during that time as well. But
I love the leadership side of ministry. I love I'm
a visionary. You know, I have a an idea of
(05:51):
where we want to go. But I'm also a pastor
and a biblical preacher at heart. Chris. I'm an expositor
of the Word of God, and I was sitting in
chapel several weeks ago, and the Spirit of God was
speaking to me in such a wonderful way, and I
could sense him saying to me, Winfred, this is not
(06:13):
the best stewardship of what I have given to you.
What do you mean by that, Lord? Well, I want
you to be back in a pulpit focused on pulpit
work in a way that you haven't been able to
do so during the last 24 years. And I said, okay, Lord,
how am I going to do that? Well, through a
(06:34):
convergence of factors, I became very obvious to me that
it was time to retire. And you're right. So this
burden of of leading the seminary is being lifted off
of my shoulders. I can sense that because God wants
me to go back into full time ministry of preaching
his word.
S1 (06:56):
So it's been a relatively recent that you've been thinking
about this for a long time, but this the decision
is relatively recent.
S2 (07:04):
It is the decision is relatively recent. Um, but yeah,
God is in it. God is in it. Now, he
had been kind of nudging me in this direction, but
sometimes I think, you know, um, we just. Lord, does
(07:25):
it really require all of that? You know, but it's
but it's it's time, Chris. It's time. And I know
in my heart of hearts that it's time for me
to step away from full time service at Moody Bible
Institute in order to concentrate on, um, leading the local
church with a focus on pastoral care and robust pulpit ministry. Um.
S1 (07:48):
But you don't have you don't know the pulpit that
you're going to.
S2 (07:51):
I have no idea what. I have no idea.
S1 (07:54):
God, that's the adventure.
S2 (07:55):
Yeah, I guess so.
S1 (07:56):
There. That's the adventure of it. And maybe today there's
a church that's listening. You know, somebody at church said
our pastor is retiring or our pastor is moving along.
We don't have who knows? Who knows what could happen?
S2 (08:07):
Who knows what could happen in this conversation. But God
knows that. But I you know, and again, I again,
I don't, uh, I want to be like Moses when
I go out. Chris. You know, Moses never retired, uh,
from ministry as such. And even though I'm stepping away
from Moody, I'm not retiring from ministry. I was just reading, uh,
(08:28):
before I came on the air with you that Moses
said today. I'm 120 years old. I can no longer
go out or come in. Not because he was physically limited,
but because God had told him, you're not going to
enter into the land. See, we know from the ending
of Deuteronomy that Moses was strong physically. His eyesight was
(08:49):
not abated, but God had told him, you're not going
to enter in the land. So it appears that on
Moses's 120th birthday that he taught Israel a song, that
he gave them a benediction and went up on Mount Pisgah,
and God showed him the Promised land. And then Moses died.
(09:14):
And that's how I want to go out. Not necessarily
with the specifics of that, but I want to serve
God and be involved in ministering to the day that
I breathe my last and go on home to be
with Jesus.
S1 (09:24):
Well, he went out singing, you know. Yeah. He did. Oh, yeah,
he went out. You said something just a minute ago
that I want to come back to. And that is,
you're listening to this message in chapel, and you heard
God say, you know, even we as evangelicals, maybe I'm
projecting onto other evangelicals, but I hear people say, yeah,
I heard God tell me. And it's immediately I think, well,
(09:45):
wait a minute, I got to ask you more about that.
So let's come back and talk about God speaking to
Doctor Winfred Neeley. And then I have some other questions
for him. And maybe you do as well. We're going
to open the phone lines (877) 548-3675. Doctor Winfred Neeley is
at the radio. Backyard fence. (877) 548-3675. Doing a little life
(10:19):
together today with Doctor Winfred Neeley, who has announced his
retirement from Moody Bible Institute the end of June. And
so I thought it would be the perfect time to
have Doctor Neeley on and talk about some of the
things going on in his life. And this question that
he just brought up a minute ago is what I
think a lot of people have on their minds is like,
I want to hear from God, and I know I
(10:41):
need to read the Bible, and I listen to the messages,
you know, the sermons. And I need to sift this
through my own life. But I hear people say that
they heard from God, or God told them this or
did that, you know, saw a message in the sky
or whatever. And I'm not I don't see those kinds
of things. So I when he said I was in
chapel and God was nudging, he had been nudging me
(11:04):
and I heard him say, or and I think what
I the way that I interpret that, Doctor Neely, is
God didn't audibly speak to you. But as you as
you're listening, you have the impression that he is communicating
something important to you in the middle of what you're hearing.
(11:25):
Am I close?
S2 (11:26):
No. You're that. That's right. Chris, I did not hear
an audible voice. But the Spirit of God has a
very unique way of communicating to us. Now, this is
an inside conversation. If a person does not have a
(11:49):
personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ, they don't. This
makes no sense to them. But I'm speaking about the
indwelling work of the Spirit of God as he fills
us and supernaturally opens our eyes to understand Scripture and
to see things in the word that we cannot see
(12:12):
under our own cognitive power. In this process, God speaks
to us. He puts things in our heart, you see.
And I mean, if you look at the if we
read Ezra, Nehemiah, we're talking to Ezra, and Nehemiah talks
about I didn't talk to anybody about what God had
put in my heart. And so, so that when we
(12:36):
sense these movements from God, there really are not beginning
with us. They're beginning with him, and he puts it
on our heart, and he communicates to us through the
power of the Spirit of God. This is why it's
so important to walk with God. This is why it's
so important to stay prayerful. Sometimes when we are in prayer,
(12:58):
for example, God speaks to us well, how does he
do that? Well, one of the things I've learned through
all of these years is when my mind wanders while
I'm praying, it seems that it actually wanders to a
burden or something that I need to take care of.
And I believe these are the ways that God communicates
(13:21):
to us. So I'm sitting there in chapel in the
Spirit of God is just showing me wonderful things from Scripture.
And I'm sitting and I'm called to preach. And so
when when God shows me things, I have to get
it out, but Without a consistent outlet for poor pet work. Um,
(13:45):
I was sensing from God that that was poor. Stewardship
is what the Spirit of God was communicating to me.
It's poor stewardship for you went for it to be
sitting here, and I'm speaking to you in such a
powerful way, and you are not able you're not in
a context where you can share this on a regular,
ongoing basis with a local congregation of my people. I mean,
(14:06):
I was just reading this morning, I know this. I
know this. I've taught it. But it struck me with
new force this morning that through the work of Christ
on the cross, God is propitiated. His justice is satisfied.
Now we say that we preach that. But that struck
me with such force this morning that that God's justice
(14:32):
has been satisfied through the work of Christ on the cross.
Hence any sinner Can come to know Christ as their
personal Lord and Savior and be forgiven for all of
their sins, because the thing that offended God has been
removed through the work of Christ on the cross, and
this is one of the great realities of the universe.
(14:54):
It struck me with force this morning.
S1 (14:58):
And you know what? The the world will look at that.
Someone who doesn't, as you said, has the Spirit of God.
They'll look at that and they'll they'll look at Christians
and say, you think this vile offender over here, somebody
who's been accused or convicted of some heinous thing, you
think that person can get into heaven simply by, you know,
(15:19):
saying a prayer or walking an aisle or, you know,
getting baptized or whatever they, they think a Christian does?
You think that can happen right there? And it's and
what they're doing is they're thinking, you got to you
got to work your way in there. You got to
be a good person to get in. And what you've
just put your finger on is this message that needs
(15:42):
to be proclaimed throughout the universe is it's not up
to us. It's not getting into heaven, quote unquote, is
not about us doing anything. It's what God did for
us to satisfy the requirements that he had himself.
S2 (15:57):
That's right. He has not overlooked sin. He has dealt
with sin through the work of Christ on the cross.
If it was up to us, we never would resolve
the issue because the offense is infinite. We don't even
live long enough to bring any kind of satisfaction to
the infinite, inflexible justice of God. And what happens is,
(16:18):
you know, sometimes I think people misunderstand sin or and
they certainly don't understand the work of Christ on the cross,
but this is what needs to be proclaimed. Now, I'm
not setting myself up as some kind of some kind
of some kind of, uh, you know, needed herald. All
I'm saying is that this is what God has been
(16:39):
putting in my heart, and this is what people need
to hear, that the work of Christ on the cross.
Something has changed in the entire universe concerning God. God's
justice has been satisfied, and now his love goes out
to any person who will trust His Son as their
personal Lord and Savior, and he will save them from
(17:01):
all eternity and change their life right here and now,
on the basis of justice. Satisfied? Sin has not been compromised.
It hasn't. God has not compromised. He has not overlooked sin.
He has dealt with sin in such a way that
we all can come to know Christ as our personal
Lord and Savior if we trust Jesus. And that's in
my heart, I want I want to tell people about that.
S1 (17:20):
That's the fire in the belly, you know, that's that's
got to get out. Did you have this is the
other thing that I've heard is confirmation from other people,
other family members, spouses, people who are saying, yeah, this,
this is the way Winfred walk in it.
S2 (17:36):
Yeah, everyone has confirmed it. Everyone has confirmed it. Everyone
has confirmed it. And God has been, uh, just been
just just a convergence of factors. God has been speaking
to me and encouraging me that this is the way that, uh,
I should go, and, uh, no one is surprised.
S1 (17:58):
Now, here's the other thing that's coming through here. As
you're talking, it's Psalm 37 four. Delight yourself in the Lord,
and he will give you the desires of your heart.
So there is part of this, that as you're sitting
there in chapel and you're processing all of this, and
you have this fire that, you know, it's like you
want to share this and God is whispering to you,
(18:20):
this is not the best use of your the desires
of your heart have always been to do what he
wants you to do. So it's it's almost as if
the tug and the pull that is coming from your
own heart is leading in the same direction, so that
he is giving you this desire that you had, that
(18:40):
he gave you in the first place. Ephesians two. Right.
S2 (18:43):
Yeah, yeah. No, no. That's right. Now, and this is
not to say that God did not have me here
at Moody Bible Institute for the last 24 years. He did,
by his grace and by his grace alone. The Lord
has enabled me and my colleagues, Chris, to train an
(19:05):
entire generation of new biblical preachers and ministers and servants
who are serving the Lord all over the world. It's
been it's been one of the the greatest privileges of
my life. At my retirement ceremony, or the senior pastor
of the village church of Gurney offered words that that
(19:27):
Pastor David Guez was one of my students. He had
five classes with me. Um. Then he went on to
Gordon-conwell Theological Seminary and did some work in Edinburgh, and
he's back in the States, and he served as my
assistant pastor at um, at Judson Baptist Church. And to
see him, he's offered a few words, and he said,
(19:49):
Doctor Neely, I just want to say on behalf of
all of the students that the Lord has used you.
And it was it was an immense blessing to me.
And and again, it's the goodness, it's the grace of
God that allowed me the immense privilege to serve at
the school that D.L. Moody founded. I love Moody Bible Institute, Chris.
(20:12):
I do, and I believe with all of my heart
what we stand for. You know, as a faculty member,
I have to sign the doctrinal statement every year. That's
how seriously we take the Word of God in our
doctrinal commitments. By the grace of God, we're not going
to move one jot or tittle away from the truth.
And so signing the doctrinal statement every year is more
(20:34):
than a perfunctory act. For me, it was an act
of worship. It was an act of renewal, of my commitment.
So I believe deeply in what we're doing here at MBI.
But and I can and I will continue on to teach.
But at the same time, I recognize that for this
next season in my life, God has something else that
(20:54):
he wants me to do.
S1 (20:57):
Is it the what if there's a church in Florida?
Would you say yes?
S2 (21:00):
Well, you know, you know, I might have to give
that some consideration, sir.
S1 (21:05):
We've got some listeners in Hawaii, too.
S3 (21:08):
You know, I might have to give that. Well, I.
S2 (21:10):
I my preference would be, honestly, my preference would be
to stay in Chicagoland. But I did tell my colleagues,
if God decides to take Stephanie and me out of
the state, would y'all please pray that it's somewhere warm
and where they don't have any kind of hurricanes and
all that stuff here? You know, there is a trade off.
S3 (21:29):
Yeah. That's true.
S1 (21:30):
Well, we've got, you know, we got some room here
in in Arizona. It gets pretty warm, especially in the summertime. Um.
S3 (21:37):
Yeah.
S1 (21:38):
You know, the I look back through a lot of
the programs that we had done together through the years,
and one of the ones that we not only aired,
but then re-aired again was when you gave your testimony
how you were a young man standing outside the packs,
as I recall, and somebody spoke into your life and
it changed your trajectory. That was a really powerful conversation.
S2 (22:02):
Yeah, yeah, I still I still remember that this young soldier,
I didn't know the guy. He just just accosted me of.
S3 (22:13):
Sorts.
S2 (22:14):
And said, can I have a few words with you?
And he pulls out. He pulls out this little yellow book,
and it's the four spiritual laws. And that was the
first time I heard the gospel, Chris. That was the
first time that I understood that God was over here.
And and I was over here on the other side,
(22:36):
and that was a massive gulf between us. And that
wasn't anything that I could do in my own power
to cross it, to get over to God. Then he
turned the page, and there was a cross that was
a bridge between God and myself. And that young man
looked at me and said, Winifred, if you receive Christ
as your personal Lord and Savior, he will save you
(22:58):
for all eternity. He will give you the gift of
eternal life, and he will bring you into an eternal
relationship with God. And I am eternally thankful for that
young soldier who had the guts and the courage and
the boldness to come to me. Cold turkey with the
four spiritual laws had no idea what God was going
(23:19):
to do with my life.
S1 (23:22):
Yeah, and the rest is.
S3 (23:23):
The.
S2 (23:23):
Rest is history.
S1 (23:24):
God grabbed a hold of you and has taken you,
you know, a lot of different places and through a
lot of different valleys, too. Um, I the, the other
conversation we had and I want to ask you of
about her. Maybe we'll talk about it here but in
the next segment for sure, because Sunday's Mother's Day. Yeah.
(23:46):
Your mom growing up on the south side of Chicago.
Your mother took you to see In the Heat of
the night with Sidney Poitier. Yeah. And and that was.
I was going to do a program about that and say,
what was the film that, you know, or the book
or whatever? It was the piece of art that really
awakened you in some way. Uh, as a child. And
(24:09):
you're a little kid then, right?
S2 (24:10):
Yeah. And my mother loved Sidney Poitier, and she took
me to see all of them. Uh, for the love
of Ivy. Guess who's coming to dinner? Which I'm going
to actually relive that. Guess who's coming to dinner later
in life? Because I didn't realize that my daughter who
went to Wheaton College calls me, calls me. She said, dad,
(24:33):
I would like for you to meet my boyfriend. Oh, yeah?
You would. Okay. Is he saved? Yes. Does he love
Christ as Christ loved? Would he love you as Christ
loved the church? Yes. Are his parents saved? Do they
know God? Yes. I said, let's bring him over for dinner.
And she said, there's one other thing, daddy. I said,
what is it? She said, he's white. And I thought
to myself, guess who's coming to dinner?
S3 (24:55):
And reverse. You saw.
S1 (24:57):
That.
S3 (24:57):
Movie a long time ago and I came back.
S2 (24:59):
Guess who's coming to dinner? Reverse.
S3 (25:01):
So the white.
S2 (25:01):
Guy comes to see the chocolate preacher. He comes.
S3 (25:04):
To my house.
S2 (25:05):
There's his tall, intimidating chocolate fella, and. And you know
what he was doing, man? He was touching my daughter's hair.
He was just rubbing it like it was silk. And
every time he put his hand on my daughter's hair,
I was. I was in shock. I was thinking to myself,
I wish this young man would keep his hands off.
S3 (25:22):
Of my daughter's.
S2 (25:24):
You know, I tell young man, I said, man, listen,
when you go to meet that girl's father, I don't
care whether he's black, white, blue or green. Keep your
hands off that girl in the.
S3 (25:33):
Presence.
S2 (25:33):
Of her daddy.
S1 (25:34):
I've got to find out more about this. Oh, we
had just gone into a, you know, one little question
about Sidney Poitier. And look where we are. Doctor Winifred
Neely is with us today at the radio backyard fence.
We'll talk about his mom and more straight ahead on
Moody Radio. Did you know that more than a million
(26:04):
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(26:47):
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(27:08):
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Winifred Neeley has written how to overcome worry. In the
past few years, we've had him on about worry and
anxiety and stress. And every time he comes on, we
talk about that. Somebody gets on the air and we,
we all kind of scratch our heads and say, how
(27:28):
did that happen? How did we get to that place? Uh,
so that's our featured resource@chris.org. He's just let us know
that he's retiring from Moody Bible Institute, Moody Theological Seminary
at the end of June. And then we this innocuous
question I wanted to ask about his mom, mother's day
is coming up, but, um, he he got into this
(27:50):
area where his daughter brings home a, uh, Caucasian guy. And, uh, now,
this was a long time ago. They eventually got married
and have kids and have been married more than 20 years.
But I want you to walk back to that time when, uh,
guess who's coming for dinner? Walked into your house. And
(28:10):
what did you feel on the inside?
S2 (28:13):
Well, this is what I was thinking, Chris. I want
to live out the full implications of the gospel. The
full implications of the Word of God. And when my
daughter told me she's bringing home a vanilla young man
(28:38):
to my house, I like to use the term vanilla
and chocolate because it's ice cream and it's all good.
So she's going to bring home this Caucasian, this vanilla guy.
I'm thinking to my this was my thought process. There
isn't anything unbiblical about this. What matters is whether he
(29:01):
knows the Lord, whether he's saved and whether they are
a fit. Now what's interesting, Eden and Shane both are MKs.
He grew up in France. She grew up in Senegal.
Both of them speak French, speak French well, so they
(29:22):
actually had more in common among themselves than they would
say per se, with somebody of their own ethnic configuration
or background, if I can say it that way. And
so I didn't, I wasn't I was determined before God
that I wasn't going to get in the way of
what God was going to do. So I had already
I'm thinking biblically and theologically about this. I'm not thinking
(29:45):
culturally about this. I'm thinking biblically and theological about that.
So that was not the issue for me. The issue
was that he kept touching her hair when he came
to the house. That's what that's what that's what got
to me. I'm thinking, dude, dude, what are you doing?
That's my baby, man. You know, and so that's what
(30:06):
kind of kind of, you know, kind of kind of
got to me. Uh, but, um, uh, he's my son
in law, and this is more than theory for me.
We have biracial. We have biracial children. Biracial children. Uh,
so this is more than theory for me. It's something
we've lived out, uh, for over two decades now, and
(30:27):
it's been a blessing. Yeah.
S1 (30:31):
You know, the whole thing about, uh. Oh, we just
need to be colorblind. We need to, you know, not
not see, I don't even see color. And I understand
where people are coming from with it. It's like. No.
When he walked. When he walked in your house, you
could tell you can't look past the color of the
hue of his skin. The issue is, am I going
(30:52):
to let this block a relationship together?
S2 (30:54):
Right? No, no. That's right. You see, if I say I,
if I don't see color, that's really that's really not
helpful because it diminishes the person. When you say that,
you know, I see you I see that, you know, okay,
I see the color of your skin, but I also
don't want to reduce you to a skin color either.
(31:17):
I realize that. You okay? You got white skin. But
I also realize that you've grown up overseas. I realize
that you speak French. I realize that you've. You're an MK,
and that you have a complexity that is, that is
deeper and much more nuanced than the mere color of
(31:38):
his skin. Same thing with Eden, right? And so one
of the things that I try not to do is
reduce people to a color, because I think that in
and of itself is is is is it minimizes the
image of God in people when we do that. This
is not to say that we don't recognize different ethnic differences,
(32:02):
different ethnic configurations. I think these things need to be
recognized and celebrated and cherished together.
S1 (32:09):
That was my word to celebrate, to celebrate these differences.
We just had Cinco de Mayo this past Monday, and
it's like, that's not a big holiday for me. But boy,
here in Arizona, there's an awful lot of people who
are setting off fireworks. And it's like, what's going on here?
You know, you find out and then you find the
food and, and the the joy of that and the
(32:31):
celebration of that. Okay. So I want to get back
to your mother, though the whole reason I asked you
about that was not the movie was about your mom. Right.
Tell me about your mom and. And the celebration of
her as your mother. Because she was. It seems to
me she was uniquely Winifred's mother. She did some things
in your life that really helped channel you. Is that true?
S2 (32:55):
Yeah. That's true. Annie. Lou. Product of rural Mississippi. And
one of the things that she did that is going
to mark me for the rest of my life. I
don't even know if she knew the impact that it
(33:15):
would have. She just called me one day when I
was a little boy and she said, Winifred, um, I'm
going to teach you how to pray. I think that
may have been about 5 or 6. We were living
in the Ida B Wells homes. Ida B Wells projects
and the extensions. Those buildings are torn down now. And
(33:37):
so my mother said, come, and I need you to
get on your knees next to me. I loved my mother.
I mean, I did. She was she was such a
wonderful person. And she got on her knees and she said,
now I need you to repeat after me. And this
is what she said. Now I lay me down to sleep.
Then I said, now I lay me down to sleep
I pray the Lord my soul to keep. I pray
(33:59):
the Lord my soul to keep. If I should die
before I wake. If I should die before I wake
I pray the Lord my soul to take. I pray
the Lord my soul to take. And something happened happen
in that moment, Chris. And this is hindsight, but God
was in that moment. And as I look back at it,
(34:20):
it's almost as if he was saying to me, hello, Winifred.
I wasn't saved at the time. I didn't know Christ
as my personal Lord and Savior, but it was something
about that moment that marked me. In that little prayer,
I learned that I had a soul. I pray the
Lord my soul to keep. I learned that life is
not an entitlement. If I should die before I wake,
(34:43):
I pray the Lord my soul to take. Now that
is something of a jarring prayer to teach a five
year old. You know I may not make it through
the night, you know. You understand what I'm saying? But
that's going to mark me deeply. And I remember when
I was studying at Wheaton College many, many years ago,
I was in Wheaton graduate school, and I was studying
with Robert Weber and historical theology. And he asked us
(35:07):
to had had an assignment for us. When was the
first time you had a sense of God? And as
I reflected on my life, that was the first time
I had a sense of God. And I don't know
if my mom, I don't think mother knew the impact
I was going to have on me. Then she taught
me another prayer. She taught me the the model prayer.
(35:28):
Our father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name,
so forth and so on. That's going to have a
big impact on me. Moreover, she gave each one of
the children verses before we would sit down to to eat.
Before we would eat our food, we would recite a verse.
She gave each child a verse. My verse was, blessed
(35:49):
are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
My baby brother Charles, he had a very short verse.
Jesus wept, and so, so she gave. She gave him
the short. He's the baby of the family. She gave him.
She loved him more. Jesus wept. Now you know my
brother Michael. You know Michael, the pastor down there in Tampa, Florida.
I said, Michael, what was your verse? He looked at
(36:12):
me and said, went. I don't even remember what my
verse was. I said, man, come on. You grew up
all those years. You know, he has no recollection of
what the verse was, but this is what was going
on in my home. In the Spirit of God is
taking that light, that little light that mother gave us.
(36:33):
And he's going to take it a long way and
lay the foundation for my conversion to Christ when I
was 19 years old.
S1 (36:40):
She's no longer living, right?
S2 (36:42):
No, she's with the Lord. I was with her when
she died. I mean, I talk about this in the
book How to Overcome Worry. I narrate my mother's deathbed experience.
I was actually there, preached on this, actually in chapel
at Moody Bible Institute in connection with Psalm 23 a
(37:03):
couple of weeks ago about my mother's death. She had
congestive heart failure, and we were with her when they
when they turned the defibrillator off because it was going
off every few seconds. Now her heart was gone and
she asked us to turn it off. And we did.
And she that lethal arrhythmia came and my daughter started
(37:25):
singing and praying. I read Psalm 23, and by the
time I read Psalm 23, um, mother turned her head
to the left and she was gone. She had gone
on to glory. And I remember Chris standing next to
her hospital bed and bowing my head and saying, Lord,
(37:46):
if I did not believe with all of my heart
that you are risen literally and bodily from among the dead,
I would be. I would be devastated beyond recovery. But
I thank you that you're alive. I thank you that
my mother is with you, and that this deathbed experience
is not the end. It's just a transition. And I
(38:07):
thank you that I'm going to see her again because
of your work on the cross. And so the Lord
Jesus has, has given me the grace to deal with
moments like the loss of a mother. And I think,
I don't know if that's one of the most devastating
things that a person can go through to lose your mother,
especially when you've been close to her. But that. But
(38:29):
the gospel will enable you even to get through those
kind of moments with hope.
S1 (38:36):
I have one more question about your mom. Let me
take a final break. Doctor Winifred Neeley is with us.
If you want to read that story in that book,
it's our featured resource. How to overcome Worry. Experiencing the
peace of God in every situation. My guess is there's
somebody who needed to hear that story right there today.
A little bit of gospel truth for your heart and
(38:58):
encouragement today. This is Chris Fabry live on Moody Radio online.
Chris Fabry Deliver more straight ahead. Now you know why
I say something good always happens when Doctor Neeley comes
(39:19):
alongside us here at the back fence. Doctor Winfred Neeley.
Find out more about him. The transition he is making
from vice president, Dean and Moody Theological Seminary to retired.
And really feels like God is leading him back into
the pastorate, into a pulpit. Um, if you go to
Chris Fabry live org, you can also see click through
(39:41):
today's information. You'll see how to overcome worry, experiencing the
peace of God in every situation. I'm going to do
a program on Friday when freed, and it's about Mother's
Day coming up on Sunday. And I was I had
already mapped this out. And then Nathan Clarkson came on
on Monday with his mother, and he told me about,
(40:02):
you know, he's an artist. He's an actor. Writer. Script
writer does all kinds of things. And he said, I
still hear my mother's voice. When I'm writing, when I'm
doing things. And I thought, I want to do a
program on. Your mother's voice. What do you hear? Whether,
you know, she could be living or have passed away.
Years ago. And you still hear your mother's voice saying something,
(40:25):
or you could be a laugh or whatever. So when
I say that to you, your mother's voice, she's been
gone a while. What? What comes to mind?
S2 (40:33):
My mother said to me on several occasions at strategic
moments in my life. Winifred. Always take the high road.
Always take the high road. My mother, she did not
believe in being petty and small minded about life. She
(40:57):
she she believed in being. She. She was Magnanimous and
gracious and kind, and she would yield in order to,
to bless others. So that has been such a deep
part of my life. Always take the high road. I try,
(41:19):
by the grace of God, to not descend into the
slimy pit of pettiness. I want, I'm trying, but but,
but and by by the help and grace of God
to be magnanimous. That's one, that's one. So that has really,
really shaped me. Another one was very practical. If I
(41:40):
can say it's another one that I would. I still
remember saying, Winfred, always pay your rent or always pay
your mortgage. Even if you can't pay your light bill
or your gas bill, you always pay your rent or
your mortgage. At least you won't be homeless. You're going
to have somewhere to go at night. So I never
forgot that. I never forgot that. So I was paying
(42:03):
my rent and my mortgage and all of that stuff,
you know, because it's a one on one. It's a
fiscally responsible thing to do before God. But it was
also it was also my mother. She just she just
drilled that in me and, um, you know, just, um,
you know, she was a one liner, kind of a
kind of a person, you know, um, and that and
(42:26):
that those, those, those comments mark me especially take the
high road.
S1 (42:30):
You mentioned the verse that she gave you the other
day of when, when you were young. But what about
a life verse? Has there been a verse that has
followed you all throughout your life?
S2 (42:43):
Well, I mean, that's Psalm 23 is my go to passage,
Psalm 23, the Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want.
You know, he makes me lie down in green pastures.
You know. He leads me beside still waters. He restores
(43:06):
my soul. He guides me in the paths of righteousness
for the sake of his name. Even though I walk
through the valley of the shadow of death, I will
fear no evil, for you are with me. Your rod
and your staff, they comfort me. You prepare a table
before me in the presence of my enemies. You have
anointed my head with oil. My cup overflows. Surely goodness
(43:29):
and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life.
And I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever.
And I was just mentioning in chaplain, I just saw
this recently. Here it says, surely goodness and mercy, those
are actually goodness and mercy represent God himself. These are,
these are these are. God is goodness. God is faithful love.
(43:49):
And so when it says, goodness and mercy will follow
me all the days of my life, what that means
is God and His mercy, and God and his faithfulness
is going to do more than follow you. He's going
to he's going to be vigorous in his pursuit of
you all the days of your life. And I was
able to share this with the students in chapel just
just a few weeks ago. And so Psalm 23 is
(44:10):
my go to text, Chris. It's my it's it's when I,
when I wake up at 3:00 in the morning with
a sense of cosmic loneliness. Psalm 23 is my go
to text when I, when I, when I, when I
fear a life caving in on me. For for whatever reason.
Psalm 23 is my go to text. I had the privilege, Chris,
(44:36):
to pray with the mayor of of Chicago, and I
was down there with Wayne, Coach Gordon, Pastor Charlie Davis,
and another pastor. And I looked at the mayor and said, Mr. Mayor,
I would like to give you my go to verse.
I offer this verse to you as a go to
passage and I, you know, quote it to him. Psalm 23. So.
(44:57):
And if if any of your listeners are listening and
they they, they want to go through passage, I recommend
Psalm 23. Read it in all situations in life. And
this is the kind of text that will get you
through the night. Yes, it's the kind of text that
will enable you to take another step. Uh, the type
of text that will enable you to walk with God
(45:21):
through the tears and lows and valleys of life, because
the Lord Jesus is your shepherd, and he will take
care of you until the very end and beyond. Till
you step foot on the shores of glory.
S1 (45:36):
And if you're going through anxiety today because you don't
know what's around the corner or, you know, a job
situation or retirement, you know some people that looms for them,
it's like, what am I going to do here? You
you are on a really good path there. But all
of that. You're right. If you've got a shepherd who
(45:57):
cares about you and is present, he's not looking the
other way. He's watching.
S2 (46:02):
Right? No, no. He's thinking, he's thinking. And his omnipotent,
omniscient mind and omnipotent power. That's the idea. He causes
us to lie down. You prepare a table before me.
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow
of death. You are with me. Goodness and mercy will
pursue me. He is vigorously and actively involved in every
(46:23):
jot and tittle of the life of those who belong
to him.
S1 (46:27):
Doctor Winfred Neely, what a treasure. Thank you, friend, for
coming alongside us here today. You come back soon, okay?
S2 (46:33):
We'll do. Chris. Thank you sir. God bless you.
S1 (46:36):
How to Overcome Worry is our featured resource at the website, Chris. Org.
Our program's production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody
Bible Institute.
Welcome to our Wednesday edition of Chris Fabry Live program
from the heart for the heart to the heart. For
more than 17 years now, we've been coming to you
with topics and guests who engage at that level. A
level of the heart and returning. Today is one of
my favorite people on the planet. As soon as he
joined me a few years ago, I could tell there's
something different about this guy. There's something special, and one
(00:26):
thing that's happened is the way listeners, the way you
have responded to his conversations, there is a depth of
pain and struggle that people call in about you. Feel
free to be yourself with him. And I think part
of that is the vulnerability of Doctor Winifred Neely. Something
good always happens when he joins me, and today we
(00:48):
have news from him. We'll get to that. And I
want to feature him as a modified Voices of Wisdom guest.
He's not that far down the trail from me, but
I want to hear what he has to say. So
let's get going. First, a thank you to Ryan McConaughey.
Doing all things technical. Tricia is our producer. Deb, Solomon's
in the chair today. Anthony, you'll be answering your calls
on Monday. We celebrated 17 years of Chris Fabry live.
(01:11):
I threw out a number. I said if someone would
support us with the gifts of $17 or a multiple thereof,
and I could do 17 and 34, that was as
far as I could get. And a listener yesterday I
looked at the number and I thought, now why did
Holly give that number? And I did my long division.
I had to write it down, and I figured out
(01:32):
that Holly gave 17 times. 26 Holly, you get a
gold star. Thank you, thank you, thank you for your
support of this program. I would love to add your
name to the list if you appreciate these daily conversations.
Give a gift of any size, but especially if it's
a multiple of 17 and a thank you right now
is the beautifully illustrated book Home Is Right Where You Are.
(01:56):
It's by artist Ruth Joe Simons, inspired by Psalm 23.
I would compare it to the book I'll Love You Forever.
You know, the one that you read to kids, but
this is God will love you forever, wherever you are.
Imagine reading this to a child or your grandchild and
letting this become a memory for the two of you
that you treasure your whole lives. Call or click through
(02:19):
today Chris Fabry, Livorno or 86695 Febry give a gift
will send you home is right where you are. I
also want you to use that number tomorrow. We're doing
a little bit of celebrating and I would love to
include you if there's a program that you really connected
with a conversation in the last 17 years that was
(02:41):
more than just a conversation for you. It kind of
helped you turn a corner. Turn a page. Call that number.
Leave a message. (866) 953-2279. To leave a message, you just
press one. To give a gift, you press two. So
call it early and often. Eight 6695 Faber or get
(03:02):
all the information at the website. Chris Fabry live dot.
Doctor Winfred Nealy is vice president and dean of Moody
Theological Seminary. Former senior pastor of Judson Baptist Church in
Oak Park, Illinois. Served as a missionary and pastor to Senegal,
West Africa, for nine years. He and his wife, Stephanie
have been married for 48 years, almost 49. They have
(03:26):
four adult children, ten grandchildren. That may have changed. He's
the author of How to Overcome Worry Experiencing the Peace
of God in Every Situation. Doctor Neeley, welcome back. How
you doing today?
S2 (03:37):
I'm very well, Chris. Thank you for having me on
with you today, sir. It's always an honor for me.
S1 (03:43):
It's more than an honor. It's an adventure for me
because you always take us to some place good. And
a little bird told me that this whole vice president
and dean of Moody Theological Seminary. This. There is something
about the big R word. The retirement. Is that true?
Is there any truth to that?
S2 (04:01):
Well, yes. Uh, June 30th of this year will be
my last day of full time service at Moody Bible Institute,
and I will be stepping away from my administrative and
leadership roles at Moody Theological Seminary. And but I will
(04:24):
continue on as an adjunct professor, adjunct emeritus in a
very limited in a in a limited capacity. But yes,
June 30th I'm stepping away from all leadership and responsibilities retiring.
I you know, I don't like the oral word. I
(04:46):
don't like that. You know, I'm really not retiring. I'm transitioning.
Yes to a new season of of ministry before the
Lord is what's what's happening here.
S1 (05:00):
I like retreading. Yeah. You're going to get. But you know,
there are other people who are in this this this season.
Tis the season. And what I hear from them more
and more is I'm releasing some duties that I feel
like aren't in the wheelhouse of, of my gifting as much.
They constrain me more. And I'm moving toward things that
(05:21):
bring joy and life and verve to my soul. Uh,
and I can do that at this season of my life.
Does that describe a little bit of what you're doing?
S2 (05:31):
Well? Well, actually, yes and no. I love leadership, I
love leading Moody Theological Seminary, and I'm still I was
still teaching, still teaching during that time as well. But
I love the leadership side of ministry. I love I'm
a visionary. You know, I have a an idea of
(05:51):
where we want to go. But I'm also a pastor
and a biblical preacher at heart. Chris. I'm an expositor
of the Word of God, and I was sitting in
chapel several weeks ago, and the Spirit of God was
speaking to me in such a wonderful way, and I
could sense him saying to me, Winfred, this is not
(06:13):
the best stewardship of what I have given to you.
What do you mean by that, Lord? Well, I want
you to be back in a pulpit focused on pulpit
work in a way that you haven't been able to
do so during the last 24 years. And I said, okay, Lord,
how am I going to do that? Well, through a
(06:34):
convergence of factors, I became very obvious to me that
it was time to retire. And you're right. So this
burden of of leading the seminary is being lifted off
of my shoulders. I can sense that because God wants
me to go back into full time ministry of preaching
his word.
S1 (06:56):
So it's been a relatively recent that you've been thinking
about this for a long time, but this the decision
is relatively recent.
S2 (07:04):
It is the decision is relatively recent. Um, but yeah,
God is in it. God is in it. Now, he
had been kind of nudging me in this direction, but
sometimes I think, you know, um, we just. Lord, does
(07:25):
it really require all of that? You know, but it's
but it's it's time, Chris. It's time. And I know
in my heart of hearts that it's time for me
to step away from full time service at Moody Bible
Institute in order to concentrate on, um, leading the local
church with a focus on pastoral care and robust pulpit ministry. Um.
S1 (07:48):
But you don't have you don't know the pulpit that
you're going to.
S2 (07:51):
I have no idea what. I have no idea.
S1 (07:54):
God, that's the adventure.
S2 (07:55):
Yeah, I guess so.
S1 (07:56):
There. That's the adventure of it. And maybe today there's
a church that's listening. You know, somebody at church said
our pastor is retiring or our pastor is moving along.
We don't have who knows? Who knows what could happen?
S2 (08:07):
Who knows what could happen in this conversation. But God
knows that. But I you know, and again, I again,
I don't, uh, I want to be like Moses when
I go out. Chris. You know, Moses never retired, uh,
from ministry as such. And even though I'm stepping away
from Moody, I'm not retiring from ministry. I was just reading, uh,
(08:28):
before I came on the air with you that Moses
said today. I'm 120 years old. I can no longer
go out or come in. Not because he was physically limited,
but because God had told him, you're not going to
enter into the land. See, we know from the ending
of Deuteronomy that Moses was strong physically. His eyesight was
(08:49):
not abated, but God had told him, you're not going
to enter in the land. So it appears that on
Moses's 120th birthday that he taught Israel a song, that
he gave them a benediction and went up on Mount Pisgah,
and God showed him the Promised land. And then Moses died.
(09:14):
And that's how I want to go out. Not necessarily
with the specifics of that, but I want to serve
God and be involved in ministering to the day that
I breathe my last and go on home to be
with Jesus.
S1 (09:24):
Well, he went out singing, you know. Yeah. He did. Oh, yeah,
he went out. You said something just a minute ago
that I want to come back to. And that is,
you're listening to this message in chapel, and you heard
God say, you know, even we as evangelicals, maybe I'm
projecting onto other evangelicals, but I hear people say, yeah,
I heard God tell me. And it's immediately I think, well,
(09:45):
wait a minute, I got to ask you more about that.
So let's come back and talk about God speaking to
Doctor Winfred Neeley. And then I have some other questions
for him. And maybe you do as well. We're going
to open the phone lines (877) 548-3675. Doctor Winfred Neeley is
at the radio. Backyard fence. (877) 548-3675. Doing a little life
(10:19):
together today with Doctor Winfred Neeley, who has announced his
retirement from Moody Bible Institute the end of June. And
so I thought it would be the perfect time to
have Doctor Neeley on and talk about some of the
things going on in his life. And this question that
he just brought up a minute ago is what I
think a lot of people have on their minds is like,
I want to hear from God, and I know I
(10:41):
need to read the Bible, and I listen to the messages,
you know, the sermons. And I need to sift this
through my own life. But I hear people say that
they heard from God, or God told them this or
did that, you know, saw a message in the sky
or whatever. And I'm not I don't see those kinds
of things. So I when he said I was in
chapel and God was nudging, he had been nudging me
(11:04):
and I heard him say, or and I think what
I the way that I interpret that, Doctor Neely, is
God didn't audibly speak to you. But as you as
you're listening, you have the impression that he is communicating
something important to you in the middle of what you're hearing.
(11:25):
Am I close?
S2 (11:26):
No. You're that. That's right. Chris, I did not hear
an audible voice. But the Spirit of God has a
very unique way of communicating to us. Now, this is
an inside conversation. If a person does not have a
(11:49):
personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ, they don't. This
makes no sense to them. But I'm speaking about the
indwelling work of the Spirit of God as he fills
us and supernaturally opens our eyes to understand Scripture and
to see things in the word that we cannot see
(12:12):
under our own cognitive power. In this process, God speaks
to us. He puts things in our heart, you see.
And I mean, if you look at the if we
read Ezra, Nehemiah, we're talking to Ezra, and Nehemiah talks
about I didn't talk to anybody about what God had
put in my heart. And so, so that when we
(12:36):
sense these movements from God, there really are not beginning
with us. They're beginning with him, and he puts it
on our heart, and he communicates to us through the
power of the Spirit of God. This is why it's
so important to walk with God. This is why it's
so important to stay prayerful. Sometimes when we are in prayer,
(12:58):
for example, God speaks to us well, how does he
do that? Well, one of the things I've learned through
all of these years is when my mind wanders while
I'm praying, it seems that it actually wanders to a
burden or something that I need to take care of.
And I believe these are the ways that God communicates
(13:21):
to us. So I'm sitting there in chapel in the
Spirit of God is just showing me wonderful things from Scripture.
And I'm sitting and I'm called to preach. And so
when when God shows me things, I have to get
it out, but Without a consistent outlet for poor pet work. Um,
(13:45):
I was sensing from God that that was poor. Stewardship
is what the Spirit of God was communicating to me.
It's poor stewardship for you went for it to be
sitting here, and I'm speaking to you in such a
powerful way, and you are not able you're not in
a context where you can share this on a regular,
ongoing basis with a local congregation of my people. I mean,
(14:06):
I was just reading this morning, I know this. I
know this. I've taught it. But it struck me with
new force this morning that through the work of Christ
on the cross, God is propitiated. His justice is satisfied.
Now we say that we preach that. But that struck
me with such force this morning that that God's justice
(14:32):
has been satisfied through the work of Christ on the cross.
Hence any sinner Can come to know Christ as their
personal Lord and Savior and be forgiven for all of
their sins, because the thing that offended God has been
removed through the work of Christ on the cross, and
this is one of the great realities of the universe.
(14:54):
It struck me with force this morning.
S1 (14:58):
And you know what? The the world will look at that.
Someone who doesn't, as you said, has the Spirit of God.
They'll look at that and they'll they'll look at Christians
and say, you think this vile offender over here, somebody
who's been accused or convicted of some heinous thing, you
think that person can get into heaven simply by, you know,
(15:19):
saying a prayer or walking an aisle or, you know,
getting baptized or whatever they, they think a Christian does?
You think that can happen right there? And it's and
what they're doing is they're thinking, you got to you
got to work your way in there. You got to
be a good person to get in. And what you've
just put your finger on is this message that needs
(15:42):
to be proclaimed throughout the universe is it's not up
to us. It's not getting into heaven, quote unquote, is
not about us doing anything. It's what God did for
us to satisfy the requirements that he had himself.
S2 (15:57):
That's right. He has not overlooked sin. He has dealt
with sin through the work of Christ on the cross.
If it was up to us, we never would resolve
the issue because the offense is infinite. We don't even
live long enough to bring any kind of satisfaction to
the infinite, inflexible justice of God. And what happens is,
(16:18):
you know, sometimes I think people misunderstand sin or and
they certainly don't understand the work of Christ on the cross,
but this is what needs to be proclaimed. Now, I'm
not setting myself up as some kind of some kind
of some kind of, uh, you know, needed herald. All
I'm saying is that this is what God has been
(16:39):
putting in my heart, and this is what people need
to hear, that the work of Christ on the cross.
Something has changed in the entire universe concerning God. God's
justice has been satisfied, and now his love goes out
to any person who will trust His Son as their
personal Lord and Savior, and he will save them from
(17:01):
all eternity and change their life right here and now,
on the basis of justice. Satisfied? Sin has not been compromised.
It hasn't. God has not compromised. He has not overlooked sin.
He has dealt with sin in such a way that
we all can come to know Christ as our personal
Lord and Savior if we trust Jesus. And that's in
my heart, I want I want to tell people about that.
S1 (17:20):
That's the fire in the belly, you know, that's that's
got to get out. Did you have this is the
other thing that I've heard is confirmation from other people,
other family members, spouses, people who are saying, yeah, this,
this is the way Winfred walk in it.
S2 (17:36):
Yeah, everyone has confirmed it. Everyone has confirmed it. Everyone
has confirmed it. And God has been, uh, just been
just just a convergence of factors. God has been speaking
to me and encouraging me that this is the way that, uh,
I should go, and, uh, no one is surprised.
S1 (17:58):
Now, here's the other thing that's coming through here. As
you're talking, it's Psalm 37 four. Delight yourself in the Lord,
and he will give you the desires of your heart.
So there is part of this, that as you're sitting
there in chapel and you're processing all of this, and
you have this fire that, you know, it's like you
want to share this and God is whispering to you,
(18:20):
this is not the best use of your the desires
of your heart have always been to do what he
wants you to do. So it's it's almost as if
the tug and the pull that is coming from your
own heart is leading in the same direction, so that
he is giving you this desire that you had, that
(18:40):
he gave you in the first place. Ephesians two. Right.
S2 (18:43):
Yeah, yeah. No, no. That's right. Now, and this is
not to say that God did not have me here
at Moody Bible Institute for the last 24 years. He did,
by his grace and by his grace alone. The Lord
has enabled me and my colleagues, Chris, to train an
(19:05):
entire generation of new biblical preachers and ministers and servants
who are serving the Lord all over the world. It's
been it's been one of the the greatest privileges of
my life. At my retirement ceremony, or the senior pastor
of the village church of Gurney offered words that that
(19:27):
Pastor David Guez was one of my students. He had
five classes with me. Um. Then he went on to
Gordon-conwell Theological Seminary and did some work in Edinburgh, and
he's back in the States, and he served as my
assistant pastor at um, at Judson Baptist Church. And to
see him, he's offered a few words, and he said,
(19:49):
Doctor Neely, I just want to say on behalf of
all of the students that the Lord has used you.
And it was it was an immense blessing to me.
And and again, it's the goodness, it's the grace of
God that allowed me the immense privilege to serve at
the school that D.L. Moody founded. I love Moody Bible Institute, Chris.
(20:12):
I do, and I believe with all of my heart
what we stand for. You know, as a faculty member,
I have to sign the doctrinal statement every year. That's
how seriously we take the Word of God in our
doctrinal commitments. By the grace of God, we're not going
to move one jot or tittle away from the truth.
And so signing the doctrinal statement every year is more
(20:34):
than a perfunctory act. For me, it was an act
of worship. It was an act of renewal, of my commitment.
So I believe deeply in what we're doing here at MBI.
But and I can and I will continue on to teach.
But at the same time, I recognize that for this
next season in my life, God has something else that
(20:54):
he wants me to do.
S1 (20:57):
Is it the what if there's a church in Florida?
Would you say yes?
S2 (21:00):
Well, you know, you know, I might have to give
that some consideration, sir.
S1 (21:05):
We've got some listeners in Hawaii, too.
S3 (21:08):
You know, I might have to give that. Well, I.
S2 (21:10):
I my preference would be, honestly, my preference would be
to stay in Chicagoland. But I did tell my colleagues,
if God decides to take Stephanie and me out of
the state, would y'all please pray that it's somewhere warm
and where they don't have any kind of hurricanes and
all that stuff here? You know, there is a trade off.
S3 (21:29):
Yeah. That's true.
S1 (21:30):
Well, we've got, you know, we got some room here
in in Arizona. It gets pretty warm, especially in the summertime. Um.
S3 (21:37):
Yeah.
S1 (21:38):
You know, the I look back through a lot of
the programs that we had done together through the years,
and one of the ones that we not only aired,
but then re-aired again was when you gave your testimony
how you were a young man standing outside the packs,
as I recall, and somebody spoke into your life and
it changed your trajectory. That was a really powerful conversation.
S2 (22:02):
Yeah, yeah, I still I still remember that this young soldier,
I didn't know the guy. He just just accosted me of.
S3 (22:13):
Sorts.
S2 (22:14):
And said, can I have a few words with you?
And he pulls out. He pulls out this little yellow book,
and it's the four spiritual laws. And that was the
first time I heard the gospel, Chris. That was the
first time that I understood that God was over here.
And and I was over here on the other side,
(22:36):
and that was a massive gulf between us. And that
wasn't anything that I could do in my own power
to cross it, to get over to God. Then he
turned the page, and there was a cross that was
a bridge between God and myself. And that young man
looked at me and said, Winifred, if you receive Christ
as your personal Lord and Savior, he will save you
(22:58):
for all eternity. He will give you the gift of
eternal life, and he will bring you into an eternal
relationship with God. And I am eternally thankful for that
young soldier who had the guts and the courage and
the boldness to come to me. Cold turkey with the
four spiritual laws had no idea what God was going
(23:19):
to do with my life.
S1 (23:22):
Yeah, and the rest is.
S3 (23:23):
The.
S2 (23:23):
Rest is history.
S1 (23:24):
God grabbed a hold of you and has taken you,
you know, a lot of different places and through a
lot of different valleys, too. Um, I the, the other
conversation we had and I want to ask you of
about her. Maybe we'll talk about it here but in
the next segment for sure, because Sunday's Mother's Day. Yeah.
(23:46):
Your mom growing up on the south side of Chicago.
Your mother took you to see In the Heat of
the night with Sidney Poitier. Yeah. And and that was.
I was going to do a program about that and say,
what was the film that, you know, or the book
or whatever? It was the piece of art that really
awakened you in some way. Uh, as a child. And
(24:09):
you're a little kid then, right?
S2 (24:10):
Yeah. And my mother loved Sidney Poitier, and she took
me to see all of them. Uh, for the love
of Ivy. Guess who's coming to dinner? Which I'm going
to actually relive that. Guess who's coming to dinner later
in life? Because I didn't realize that my daughter who
went to Wheaton College calls me, calls me. She said, dad,
(24:33):
I would like for you to meet my boyfriend. Oh, yeah?
You would. Okay. Is he saved? Yes. Does he love
Christ as Christ loved? Would he love you as Christ
loved the church? Yes. Are his parents saved? Do they
know God? Yes. I said, let's bring him over for dinner.
And she said, there's one other thing, daddy. I said,
what is it? She said, he's white. And I thought
to myself, guess who's coming to dinner?
S3 (24:55):
And reverse. You saw.
S1 (24:57):
That.
S3 (24:57):
Movie a long time ago and I came back.
S2 (24:59):
Guess who's coming to dinner? Reverse.
S3 (25:01):
So the white.
S2 (25:01):
Guy comes to see the chocolate preacher. He comes.
S3 (25:04):
To my house.
S2 (25:05):
There's his tall, intimidating chocolate fella, and. And you know
what he was doing, man? He was touching my daughter's hair.
He was just rubbing it like it was silk. And
every time he put his hand on my daughter's hair,
I was. I was in shock. I was thinking to myself,
I wish this young man would keep his hands off.
S3 (25:22):
Of my daughter's.
S2 (25:24):
You know, I tell young man, I said, man, listen,
when you go to meet that girl's father, I don't
care whether he's black, white, blue or green. Keep your
hands off that girl in the.
S3 (25:33):
Presence.
S2 (25:33):
Of her daddy.
S1 (25:34):
I've got to find out more about this. Oh, we
had just gone into a, you know, one little question
about Sidney Poitier. And look where we are. Doctor Winifred
Neely is with us today at the radio backyard fence.
We'll talk about his mom and more straight ahead on
Moody Radio. Did you know that more than a million
(26:04):
women celebrate Mother's Day because of the work of Carenet?
Sunday morning, more than a million children will celebrate their
moms because of that abundant life ministry. And if you
are a mom, Carenet wants you to have a free
devotional Finding Abundance for moms seven Days of Encouragement Carenet
(26:27):
is dedicated to helping moms and dads find abundant life
in Christ. Obviously, they are for the unborn as well,
and that's represented in more than a million women being
moms because of that choice that they made. But this
is one way to do that. Finding the abundant life.
(26:47):
Click the Green Connect link at the website. Chris Fabry
lives and you'll be able to receive Finding Abundance for
moms the devotional. No matter how chaotic motherhood might feel
to you, Kurnit believes you are made for more than
just surviving. You are made to thrive. And this devotional,
I think will help you do that. Click the Green
(27:08):
connect link at Chris Fabry Live. Chris Fabry Livorno Doctor
Winifred Neeley has written how to overcome worry. In the
past few years, we've had him on about worry and
anxiety and stress. And every time he comes on, we
talk about that. Somebody gets on the air and we,
we all kind of scratch our heads and say, how
(27:28):
did that happen? How did we get to that place? Uh,
so that's our featured resource@chris.org. He's just let us know
that he's retiring from Moody Bible Institute, Moody Theological Seminary
at the end of June. And then we this innocuous
question I wanted to ask about his mom, mother's day
is coming up, but, um, he he got into this
(27:50):
area where his daughter brings home a, uh, Caucasian guy. And, uh, now,
this was a long time ago. They eventually got married
and have kids and have been married more than 20 years.
But I want you to walk back to that time when, uh,
guess who's coming for dinner? Walked into your house. And
(28:10):
what did you feel on the inside?
S2 (28:13):
Well, this is what I was thinking, Chris. I want
to live out the full implications of the gospel. The
full implications of the Word of God. And when my
daughter told me she's bringing home a vanilla young man
(28:38):
to my house, I like to use the term vanilla
and chocolate because it's ice cream and it's all good.
So she's going to bring home this Caucasian, this vanilla guy.
I'm thinking to my this was my thought process. There
isn't anything unbiblical about this. What matters is whether he
(29:01):
knows the Lord, whether he's saved and whether they are
a fit. Now what's interesting, Eden and Shane both are MKs.
He grew up in France. She grew up in Senegal.
Both of them speak French, speak French well, so they
(29:22):
actually had more in common among themselves than they would
say per se, with somebody of their own ethnic configuration
or background, if I can say it that way. And
so I didn't, I wasn't I was determined before God
that I wasn't going to get in the way of
what God was going to do. So I had already
I'm thinking biblically and theologically about this. I'm not thinking
(29:45):
culturally about this. I'm thinking biblically and theological about that.
So that was not the issue for me. The issue
was that he kept touching her hair when he came
to the house. That's what that's what that's what got
to me. I'm thinking, dude, dude, what are you doing?
That's my baby, man. You know, and so that's what
(30:06):
kind of kind of, you know, kind of kind of
got to me. Uh, but, um, uh, he's my son
in law, and this is more than theory for me.
We have biracial. We have biracial children. Biracial children. Uh,
so this is more than theory for me. It's something
we've lived out, uh, for over two decades now, and
(30:27):
it's been a blessing. Yeah.
S1 (30:31):
You know, the whole thing about, uh. Oh, we just
need to be colorblind. We need to, you know, not
not see, I don't even see color. And I understand
where people are coming from with it. It's like. No.
When he walked. When he walked in your house, you
could tell you can't look past the color of the
hue of his skin. The issue is, am I going
(30:52):
to let this block a relationship together?
S2 (30:54):
Right? No, no. That's right. You see, if I say I,
if I don't see color, that's really that's really not
helpful because it diminishes the person. When you say that,
you know, I see you I see that, you know, okay,
I see the color of your skin, but I also
don't want to reduce you to a skin color either.
(31:17):
I realize that. You okay? You got white skin. But
I also realize that you've grown up overseas. I realize
that you speak French. I realize that you've. You're an MK,
and that you have a complexity that is, that is
deeper and much more nuanced than the mere color of
(31:38):
his skin. Same thing with Eden, right? And so one
of the things that I try not to do is
reduce people to a color, because I think that in
and of itself is is is is it minimizes the
image of God in people when we do that. This
is not to say that we don't recognize different ethnic differences,
(32:02):
different ethnic configurations. I think these things need to be
recognized and celebrated and cherished together.
S1 (32:09):
That was my word to celebrate, to celebrate these differences.
We just had Cinco de Mayo this past Monday, and
it's like, that's not a big holiday for me. But boy,
here in Arizona, there's an awful lot of people who
are setting off fireworks. And it's like, what's going on here?
You know, you find out and then you find the
food and, and the the joy of that and the
(32:31):
celebration of that. Okay. So I want to get back
to your mother, though the whole reason I asked you
about that was not the movie was about your mom. Right.
Tell me about your mom and. And the celebration of
her as your mother. Because she was. It seems to
me she was uniquely Winifred's mother. She did some things
in your life that really helped channel you. Is that true?
S2 (32:55):
Yeah. That's true. Annie. Lou. Product of rural Mississippi. And
one of the things that she did that is going
to mark me for the rest of my life. I
don't even know if she knew the impact that it
(33:15):
would have. She just called me one day when I
was a little boy and she said, Winifred, um, I'm
going to teach you how to pray. I think that
may have been about 5 or 6. We were living
in the Ida B Wells homes. Ida B Wells projects
and the extensions. Those buildings are torn down now. And
(33:37):
so my mother said, come, and I need you to
get on your knees next to me. I loved my mother.
I mean, I did. She was she was such a
wonderful person. And she got on her knees and she said,
now I need you to repeat after me. And this
is what she said. Now I lay me down to sleep.
Then I said, now I lay me down to sleep
I pray the Lord my soul to keep. I pray
(33:59):
the Lord my soul to keep. If I should die
before I wake. If I should die before I wake
I pray the Lord my soul to take. I pray
the Lord my soul to take. And something happened happen
in that moment, Chris. And this is hindsight, but God
was in that moment. And as I look back at it,
(34:20):
it's almost as if he was saying to me, hello, Winifred.
I wasn't saved at the time. I didn't know Christ
as my personal Lord and Savior, but it was something
about that moment that marked me. In that little prayer,
I learned that I had a soul. I pray the
Lord my soul to keep. I learned that life is
not an entitlement. If I should die before I wake,
(34:43):
I pray the Lord my soul to take. Now that
is something of a jarring prayer to teach a five
year old. You know I may not make it through
the night, you know. You understand what I'm saying? But
that's going to mark me deeply. And I remember when
I was studying at Wheaton College many, many years ago,
I was in Wheaton graduate school, and I was studying
with Robert Weber and historical theology. And he asked us
(35:07):
to had had an assignment for us. When was the
first time you had a sense of God? And as
I reflected on my life, that was the first time
I had a sense of God. And I don't know
if my mom, I don't think mother knew the impact
I was going to have on me. Then she taught
me another prayer. She taught me the the model prayer.
(35:28):
Our father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name,
so forth and so on. That's going to have a
big impact on me. Moreover, she gave each one of
the children verses before we would sit down to to eat.
Before we would eat our food, we would recite a verse.
She gave each child a verse. My verse was, blessed
(35:49):
are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
My baby brother Charles, he had a very short verse.
Jesus wept, and so, so she gave. She gave him
the short. He's the baby of the family. She gave him.
She loved him more. Jesus wept. Now you know my
brother Michael. You know Michael, the pastor down there in Tampa, Florida.
I said, Michael, what was your verse? He looked at
(36:12):
me and said, went. I don't even remember what my
verse was. I said, man, come on. You grew up
all those years. You know, he has no recollection of
what the verse was, but this is what was going
on in my home. In the Spirit of God is
taking that light, that little light that mother gave us.
(36:33):
And he's going to take it a long way and
lay the foundation for my conversion to Christ when I
was 19 years old.
S1 (36:40):
She's no longer living, right?
S2 (36:42):
No, she's with the Lord. I was with her when
she died. I mean, I talk about this in the
book How to Overcome Worry. I narrate my mother's deathbed experience.
I was actually there, preached on this, actually in chapel
at Moody Bible Institute in connection with Psalm 23 a
(37:03):
couple of weeks ago about my mother's death. She had
congestive heart failure, and we were with her when they
when they turned the defibrillator off because it was going
off every few seconds. Now her heart was gone and
she asked us to turn it off. And we did.
And she that lethal arrhythmia came and my daughter started
(37:25):
singing and praying. I read Psalm 23, and by the
time I read Psalm 23, um, mother turned her head
to the left and she was gone. She had gone
on to glory. And I remember Chris standing next to
her hospital bed and bowing my head and saying, Lord,
(37:46):
if I did not believe with all of my heart
that you are risen literally and bodily from among the dead,
I would be. I would be devastated beyond recovery. But
I thank you that you're alive. I thank you that
my mother is with you, and that this deathbed experience
is not the end. It's just a transition. And I
(38:07):
thank you that I'm going to see her again because
of your work on the cross. And so the Lord
Jesus has, has given me the grace to deal with
moments like the loss of a mother. And I think,
I don't know if that's one of the most devastating
things that a person can go through to lose your mother,
especially when you've been close to her. But that. But
(38:29):
the gospel will enable you even to get through those
kind of moments with hope.
S1 (38:36):
I have one more question about your mom. Let me
take a final break. Doctor Winifred Neeley is with us.
If you want to read that story in that book,
it's our featured resource. How to overcome Worry. Experiencing the
peace of God in every situation. My guess is there's
somebody who needed to hear that story right there today.
A little bit of gospel truth for your heart and
(38:58):
encouragement today. This is Chris Fabry live on Moody Radio online.
Chris Fabry Deliver more straight ahead. Now you know why
I say something good always happens when Doctor Neeley comes
(39:19):
alongside us here at the back fence. Doctor Winfred Neeley.
Find out more about him. The transition he is making
from vice president, Dean and Moody Theological Seminary to retired.
And really feels like God is leading him back into
the pastorate, into a pulpit. Um, if you go to
Chris Fabry live org, you can also see click through
(39:41):
today's information. You'll see how to overcome worry, experiencing the
peace of God in every situation. I'm going to do
a program on Friday when freed, and it's about Mother's
Day coming up on Sunday. And I was I had
already mapped this out. And then Nathan Clarkson came on
on Monday with his mother, and he told me about,
(40:02):
you know, he's an artist. He's an actor. Writer. Script
writer does all kinds of things. And he said, I
still hear my mother's voice. When I'm writing, when I'm
doing things. And I thought, I want to do a
program on. Your mother's voice. What do you hear? Whether,
you know, she could be living or have passed away.
Years ago. And you still hear your mother's voice saying something,
(40:25):
or you could be a laugh or whatever. So when
I say that to you, your mother's voice, she's been
gone a while. What? What comes to mind?
S2 (40:33):
My mother said to me on several occasions at strategic
moments in my life. Winifred. Always take the high road.
Always take the high road. My mother, she did not
believe in being petty and small minded about life. She
(40:57):
she she believed in being. She. She was Magnanimous and
gracious and kind, and she would yield in order to,
to bless others. So that has been such a deep
part of my life. Always take the high road. I try,
(41:19):
by the grace of God, to not descend into the
slimy pit of pettiness. I want, I'm trying, but but,
but and by by the help and grace of God
to be magnanimous. That's one, that's one. So that has really,
really shaped me. Another one was very practical. If I
(41:40):
can say it's another one that I would. I still
remember saying, Winfred, always pay your rent or always pay
your mortgage. Even if you can't pay your light bill
or your gas bill, you always pay your rent or
your mortgage. At least you won't be homeless. You're going
to have somewhere to go at night. So I never
forgot that. I never forgot that. So I was paying
(42:03):
my rent and my mortgage and all of that stuff,
you know, because it's a one on one. It's a
fiscally responsible thing to do before God. But it was
also it was also my mother. She just she just
drilled that in me and, um, you know, just, um,
you know, she was a one liner, kind of a
kind of a person, you know, um, and that and
(42:26):
that those, those, those comments mark me especially take the
high road.
S1 (42:30):
You mentioned the verse that she gave you the other
day of when, when you were young. But what about
a life verse? Has there been a verse that has
followed you all throughout your life?
S2 (42:43):
Well, I mean, that's Psalm 23 is my go to passage,
Psalm 23, the Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want.
You know, he makes me lie down in green pastures.
You know. He leads me beside still waters. He restores
(43:06):
my soul. He guides me in the paths of righteousness
for the sake of his name. Even though I walk
through the valley of the shadow of death, I will
fear no evil, for you are with me. Your rod
and your staff, they comfort me. You prepare a table
before me in the presence of my enemies. You have
anointed my head with oil. My cup overflows. Surely goodness
(43:29):
and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life.
And I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever.
And I was just mentioning in chaplain, I just saw
this recently. Here it says, surely goodness and mercy, those
are actually goodness and mercy represent God himself. These are,
these are these are. God is goodness. God is faithful love.
(43:49):
And so when it says, goodness and mercy will follow
me all the days of my life, what that means
is God and His mercy, and God and his faithfulness
is going to do more than follow you. He's going
to he's going to be vigorous in his pursuit of
you all the days of your life. And I was
able to share this with the students in chapel just
just a few weeks ago. And so Psalm 23 is
(44:10):
my go to text, Chris. It's my it's it's when I,
when I wake up at 3:00 in the morning with
a sense of cosmic loneliness. Psalm 23 is my go
to text when I, when I, when I, when I
fear a life caving in on me. For for whatever reason.
Psalm 23 is my go to text. I had the privilege, Chris,
(44:36):
to pray with the mayor of of Chicago, and I
was down there with Wayne, Coach Gordon, Pastor Charlie Davis,
and another pastor. And I looked at the mayor and said, Mr. Mayor,
I would like to give you my go to verse.
I offer this verse to you as a go to
passage and I, you know, quote it to him. Psalm 23. So.
(44:57):
And if if any of your listeners are listening and
they they, they want to go through passage, I recommend
Psalm 23. Read it in all situations in life. And
this is the kind of text that will get you
through the night. Yes, it's the kind of text that
will enable you to take another step. Uh, the type
of text that will enable you to walk with God
(45:21):
through the tears and lows and valleys of life, because
the Lord Jesus is your shepherd, and he will take
care of you until the very end and beyond. Till
you step foot on the shores of glory.
S1 (45:36):
And if you're going through anxiety today because you don't
know what's around the corner or, you know, a job
situation or retirement, you know some people that looms for them,
it's like, what am I going to do here? You
you are on a really good path there. But all
of that. You're right. If you've got a shepherd who
(45:57):
cares about you and is present, he's not looking the
other way. He's watching.
S2 (46:02):
Right? No, no. He's thinking, he's thinking. And his omnipotent,
omniscient mind and omnipotent power. That's the idea. He causes
us to lie down. You prepare a table before me.
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow
of death. You are with me. Goodness and mercy will
pursue me. He is vigorously and actively involved in every
(46:23):
jot and tittle of the life of those who belong
to him.
S1 (46:27):
Doctor Winfred Neely, what a treasure. Thank you, friend, for
coming alongside us here today. You come back soon, okay?
S2 (46:33):
We'll do. Chris. Thank you sir. God bless you.
S1 (46:36):
How to Overcome Worry is our featured resource at the website, Chris. Org.
Our program's production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody
Bible Institute.
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