January 8, 2025 • 46 mins
Have any anxiety and stress in your life? Author and pastor Tim Challies returns to take another look at poems and prayers from believers through the centuries. Their words will encourage and motivate you with whatever you are going through today. If you need to awaken your heart to the goodness, greatness, and glory of God, don't miss the encouragement on Chris Fabry Live.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:05):
There are times in life when you just don't have
the words. Have you ever been through one of those times?
Maybe today. Is it time like that for you? You
gone through some kind of loss or upheaval. You're struggling
to believe that God is for you. You've made a mistake.
You feel like a failure. You've come up against some
(00:26):
hard providence of God, and you believe God is sovereign.
But you have no idea what in the world he's
doing right now. Does that ring a bell in your
soul today? There are believers who have lived through the ages,
who have gone through the season that you are experiencing,
and they have expressed their heart in words that are
(00:48):
going to hit home with you today, I believe. Have
you ever read a phrase or a verse that captured
the way you felt? Has that ever happened to you?
A few months ago, I was sent the sent the
advance copy of a book titled Pilgrim Prayers, and I
began to read one of these poems there 50 of
them in the book, and it began to read the
(01:08):
poems and the devotion around it, and the Scripture one
every day. And even before I finished it 50 days later,
I knew, I really want to send you a copy
of this, and we're going to make that happen. Today
we're actually doing it all this month. But I've asked
Tim Challies to come back today. He was with us
(01:28):
in August, and he's come back at my request, because
that book has meant a lot to me in the
past few months. It's our thank you. Right now, I'm
excited about that. So welcome to the Radio Backyard poetry Corner.
Thanks for joining us. And I promise you, we are
going back and back the truck of encouragement up to
the dock of your heart, and we're going to unload
(01:50):
it again. Here's the website, Chris Fabry live. Here's our team,
which includes Ryan McConaughey doing all doing? All things technical.
Trish is our producer. Lisa is in the chair today.
Anthony will be answering your calls. Tim Challies is pastor,
speaker and author. It says he's a noted speaker. And
I want to ask him, how do you get the
(02:11):
noted in front of it? He's a pioneer in the
Christian blogosphere. Tens of thousands visit Charlie's dot com every day,
making it one of the most widely read and recognized
Christian blogs in the world. He's written several books, including
Visual Theology, epic, and the award winning Seasons of Sorrow.
(02:32):
He and his family live near Toronto, Ontario. Tim. Welcome back.
How are you doing today?
S2 (02:38):
I'm doing well. Thanks for having me.
S1 (02:40):
Can I just thank you for the gift of this
book and what it has done for me. I just
want to say, get that out of the way here
at the front.
S2 (02:49):
Are so glad to hear it. Yeah, it was a
joy to put it together and a joy to be
able to just release it to the world.
S1 (02:55):
Yes, but not everybody is like me, you know? Not everybody.
Poetry is not the thing that they respond to. We
all respond to something different. So there may be somebody
listening who says, you know, I don't have a desire
for poetry in my life, but I would have said
the same thing a few years ago. Why is poetry
(03:15):
important for the Christian?
S2 (03:19):
I think there could be a few different reasons. God
saw fit to give us lots of poetry and scripture.
The whole book of Psalms, for example. So I think
that would make the case that poetry matters and that
it ought to matter to Christians in particular, but also
because our spiritual forebears put a lot of effort into
writing it. So even if it's not particularly important in
(03:39):
our day and age, we can look back just a
few years and say, well, it used to be very important,
and maybe they knew something that we don't or something
that we've forgotten or neglected.
S1 (03:49):
Yeah. And why do you think that is? Why is
it become this art that has been pushed aside.
S2 (03:58):
I suppose songwriting has maybe taken over from just poetry
songs being essentially poetry set to music that's become a
more prominent form, perhaps. And I also think what happened
in the 1900s was the rise of free verse, most
of which is, I mean, it's counted as poetry, but
I don't think it's awfully good. And so we lost
(04:19):
some of the poetic forms that used to make poetry
beautiful in favor of free verse. And I think maybe
we just sort of worked our way out of loving
poetry by writing, by writing poetry. That wasn't very good.
And then I suppose there's probably some natural ebb and
flow to these things where for a time it's popular,
and then a time it fades away. So my hope
is we can look backward and see some of the
(04:40):
wonderful poetry that's been left to us, and maybe that
will provoke some of us to start a new era
of poetry.
S1 (04:46):
I got an email. I've been going through my December email.
I got to the end today. It was a wonderful thing. Um,
And there is a listener named Robin who was saying,
Happy New Year, and she included a poem by Mary Oliver.
And here's the poem. Poetry is a life, or this
is what she says about poetry. Poetry is a life
(05:08):
cherishing force. For poems are not words, after all. But
fires for the cold ropes let down to the lost.
Something as necessary as bread in the pockets of the hungry.
Do you agree with that?
S2 (05:26):
Sure. And part of the beauty of poetry is what
you see right there is we prefer. Of course, it
makes sense. We prefer prose, which is just stating things
as they are. But part of the beauty of poetry
is that you use pictures. You use word pictures to
describe things which evoke feeling, but also demand some thought
and reflection. And so instead of just saying it, you
(05:50):
can make it sound beautiful and you can get people
to think about what you mean and then interpret your poetry.
Just like in those lines that were read for us.
They were poetic in the sense of we need to
think about them a little bit.
S1 (06:01):
So the words almost arrest you or stop you if
you're looking on the page. And poetry was was meant
to be read aloud or you could hear it. So
something that you read, like I say, ropes let down
to the lost or bread in the pockets of the hungry.
When you say that it should, it immediately does something internal.
(06:23):
It pulls you in, doesn't it?
S2 (06:26):
It does. Yeah. Just think about Psalm 23, one of
the greatest poems ever written. David could have said a
lot about God. He could have given us many. He
could have given us many straight up, straightforward ways of
describing God. But think what's caught up in saying, the
Lord is my shepherd, right? He didn't have to give
us that picture, but he did. And there's something so
(06:46):
evocative in that. Or your rod and your staff, they
comfort me. Again, He could have said, God comforts us
in many ways or something along those lines, but instead
he gave us this beautiful, poetic picture of what God
does or how God comforts us. And that's the beauty
of poetry is grabbing these forms we have in language,
(07:07):
these forms God has given us, and then enlisting them
in communicating truth in beautiful ways.
S1 (07:12):
I wonder if the pastors in the 17 and 1800s,
if they quoted more poetry than pastors today, you probably
have not done the research on that. But what's what's
your idea?
S2 (07:29):
I would imagine so, if for no other reason than
there were contemporary poets they could draw upon. But also
people were probably more accustomed to listening to poetry. So
I read a poem to our church last week in
our Sunday morning service, and I think that's only maybe
the second time we've done that in the history of
our church. And it was interesting for me at the
(07:49):
front of the room to look out and see people listening.
You could see people closing their eyes to listen, but
we don't really know how to listen to poetry. But
I felt like people really wanted to engage with it.
It was a New Year's poem that had been written
a couple hundred years ago, and I think it was
really meaningful to people just as an element of worship,
like a song without a melody. People really enjoyed it
(08:11):
and I think benefited from it.
S1 (08:13):
How do you describe that then? How do you listen
to poetry?
S2 (08:18):
Well, I think maybe closing your eyes as they did
is a good is a good practice when you're unaccustomed
to it just so you can focus on it. But yeah,
I think you have to listen for the pictures first.
You listen for the meter and for the rhyme, so
you can get a sense of what the poet is
trying to communicate in that way, but then start to
look or listen for those pictures and then try to
think about what those pictures mean, what the author is
(08:40):
trying to communicate through them. And most poetry needs to
be read several times. You mentioned you've read some of
these poems repeatedly now. And that's the best way to
to learn to love poetry is to read it many times,
to read it in different ways, different emphases on different words,
and eventually, through reading and rereading, I think you'll come
to a deeper appreciation of what the poet meant to
(09:03):
communicate through his words.
S1 (09:04):
Yes, and that's one of the things you say to do,
and I've done that as well, is I don't don't
just read it one time and then read the devotion
and close the book. Read it through, analyze. You know,
what is the form? Where? Where is the emphasis? And
then read it again. And if you can read it
aloud because so that you're listening and we're going to
(09:25):
do that today I want to we had Tim Challies
on with us in August. And I kind of whetted
your appetite for this today. I really want to go
deep into a couple of the poems that I found.
And if you are listening and you say poetry has
meant a great deal to me, light a fire in
somebody else today. Is there a a phrase? And it
(09:46):
could be a be a him, it could be a song,
or it could be a poem from antiquity that just
has arrested you in your life. I want you to
call us and let us know what that is. (877) 548-3675
is our number, and we'll open our lines. Now, if
you want to talk with Tim Challies and tell us
the line from the poem that still arrests you today,
(10:09):
but I hope you go to the website as well,
because this book, Pilgrim Prayers, it's a hardback book. There
are 50 of these devotions with 50 poems in them.
This is my gift to you. This is our gift
this month on Chris Fabry live. To anyone who calls
and gives a gift of any size, we want to
(10:30):
put this in the mail to you so you can
go to the website and do that. You can see
it right there, Chris Fabry live, or you can call
866 95 Faber and give a gift that way, and
we'll send you a copy of Tim Challies these pilgrim prayers,
devotional poems that awaken your heart to the goodness, greatness,
(10:50):
and glory of God. 866 95 favorite. Hymn. Charles is
with us today at the radio backyard fence, the poetry
corner here with me today and our featured resource. Actually
(11:14):
our thank you is Pilgrim Prayers by Tim. We talked
about this back in August, but I have been going
through it. And one of the folks that Laurie who
works with us, she said, Chris, this is exactly it
sounds like something that you would really love giving away.
And I said, yes, absolutely. And so I want to
send you a hardback copy of this, but instead of
(11:35):
kind of asking you the service question, I want to
dig deep into a couple of these poems today. And
the one that keeps jumping out to me is by
John Quarles. The title of this is a Prayer to
Desire and Delight in God. Devout aspirations. And let me
(11:56):
just read. Why don't I read the the devotional around it?
And then we'll get into the poem. Is that okay
with you, Tim?
S2 (12:04):
Sounds great.
S1 (12:05):
When God saves us by his grace, he begins a
remarkable work of reformation within us. We quickly learn that
he is changing us from the inside out. We might
be tempted to think that he would be content with
outward transformation, cleaner words, better behavior, diminished addictions. But he
(12:26):
means to accomplish something so much more real, so much
more thorough, so much more authentic. He means to transform
us at the level of the heart, the level of
our deepest longings and closest desires. Soon we find that
what had previously been desirable has become undesirable, and what
(12:49):
was previously unthinkable is now the very thing we long
and pray for. We find that God gives us holy
and devout aspirations, aspirations to fear him, love him, serve him,
obey him, and do all things for his glory. So
that's what comes before the poem. And then there's one
(13:13):
section that says observe. And you kind of give us
an idea. Here's how to read this, or here's something
you can look for. You say, this is a slightly
longer and more complicated poem than many in this collection,
but read it carefully and repeatedly and see how the
poet pleads with God for better and purer spiritual aspirations. So, Tim,
(13:37):
why don't you read? And it is longer and it's
like they you shouldn't do this on radio because you can't.
You're going to lose their attention. Folks, if you're unless
you're driving. Close your eyes and listen to this by
John Quarles.
S2 (13:53):
Great God, who sceptre rules the earth. Distil thy fear
into my heart. That being rapt with holy mirth, I
may proclaim. How good thou art. Open my lips that
I may sing full praises to my God, my King.
Great God, thy garden is defaced. The weeds thrive there.
Thy flowers decay. Oh, call to mind thy promise past.
(14:15):
Restore thou these. Cut those away. Till then let not
the weeds have power to starve. Or stunt the poorest
flower in all extremes. Lord, thou art still the mount.
Where to my hopes do flee. Oh, make my soul
detest all ill. Because so much abhorred by thee. Lord,
let thy gracious trials show that I am just. Or
(14:37):
make me so. Fountain of life and living breath. Whose
mercies never fail nor fade. Fill me with life that
hath no death. Fill me with light that hath no shade.
Appoint the remnant of my days to see thy power.
And sing thy praise. Lord God of gods. Before whose
throne stands storms and fire. Oh, what shall we return
(15:00):
to heaven that is our own. When all the world
belongs to thee. We have no offering to impart. But
praises and a wounded heart. O thou that sittest in heaven.
And sees my deeds without my thoughts within. Be thou,
my prince. Be thou my priest. Command my soul and
cure my sin. How bitter my afflictions be. I care not.
(15:21):
So I rise to thee. What I possess or what
I crave brings no content. Great God to me. If
what I would or what I have. Be not possessed
and blest in thee. What I enjoy or make it mine.
And making me that have it thine. When winter fortunes
cloud the brows of summer. Friends. When eyes grow strange.
(15:41):
When plighted faith forgets its vows. When earth and all
things in it change. O Lord, thy mercies fail me never.
Where thou lovest, thou lovest for ever. Great God, whose
kingdom hath no end. Into whose secrets none can dive.
Whose mercy none can apprehend. Whose justice? None can feel
and live. What my dull heart cannot aspire to. No, Lord,
(16:04):
teach me to admire.
S1 (16:08):
That is just. That will stop you in your tracks.
And I want to go back to. You know, I
think this is one of the reasons why I've been
looking at fear in the Bible and how important fear
is and how much we get fear of God wrong. Um,
because you say our aspirations to fear him even in
(16:29):
what I read before it. Great God, whose sceptre rules
the earth, distil thy fear into my heart. Art. Now what?
What does he mean there? What is John Quarles saying
to distill? Fear. It's like I don't want to distill fear.
Fear is bad, you know? Perfect love casts out all fear.
What is that fear that is being distilled or purified
(16:53):
in my heart?
S2 (16:55):
Sure, my understanding of biblical fear is that it usually
simply refers to a right understanding of the difference between
ourselves and God, and so it's rightly assessing who God
is and rightly assessing who we are. And then just
almost staring at the infinite chasm between the two. So
(17:15):
when we understand who God is, we understand who God,
who we are in relation to God. Well then, um,
then we're in the place we need to be to
humble ourselves before God. And of course, then to worship
God in a way that he is worthy of. Or,
as the poet says, that being rapt or enraptured with
holy mirth, I may proclaim, how good thou art. Open
(17:37):
my lips that I may sing full praises to my God,
my King, which shows that the right response to understanding
the fear of God is not screaming and running away.
It's opening lips and praise and worship to God.
S1 (17:50):
Running toward him. See? And that then will will orient
your heart as to what you fear the most. Because
most of the time, as we live and as believers,
most of the time, we don't live with the fear
of God. We live with the fear of penury. There's
another one of those big words we live with the
(18:12):
fear of not having enough and adequacy. We live with
a fear. We have this orphan spirit about us that,
you know, yeah, God's up there and he's sovereign and everything.
But I got to take care of this myself, or
what Peter did in the book of acts when they
told him, don't speak in that name. You know, Peter
says you need to do what you need to need
(18:34):
to do. I've got to. I've got. I fear God
rather than you who have the power to take my life.
So your the fear of God will orient you to
fearing other people or things won't it.
S2 (18:48):
Mhm. Yeah. Absolutely. And so one of the major sins
in my own heart, one of the major sins in
every human being, sinful human being's heart is fear of
man rather than fear of God. Right. When men are
big and God is small. And so, um, of course,
when we understand who God is rightly, then it does
set us in the right context. But other people as well.
(19:11):
It lowers all men to the ground, to the dust
before our great and awesome God.
S1 (19:16):
Yes, this is a and this is one of those
poems that I have underlined. I almost tried to. No,
I did almost I tried to memorize it. And then
I got stuck and I and I, I had a
hard time, but I could get the great God whose
sceptre rules the earth that Reorients. You know, God, you're
the one who's in control here. Distill thy fear into
(19:37):
my heart. Um, there's another on the second. I don't
know which stanza this is, but it says, Lord, let
thy gracious trials show that I am just. Or make
me so. And I think of James chapter one and
what he says. Whenever you fall into various trials, you
(20:01):
know this will lead to perseverance. Don't push those away. Uh,
he says he calls them gracious trials. I never look
at my trials as gracious. You know, at least at
first blush. I want to get out of that. Don't you?
S2 (20:17):
Right. Yeah. Of course. And, um, one of the struggles
we all have in a trial is having faith in
that moment, in the promises of God that he's working
all things for good, or that God does Jason, the
one he loves, and so on. And so in our trials,
we still need to express faith. Faith doesn't just save us.
(20:38):
Faith preserves us and keeps us going through the Christian life.
And it's in those moments of trial that we need
to express that faith and say to God, I may
not know what you're doing. I may not know why
you're doing it, but I believe you must be up
to something good because you've you've made that promise, and
I'm choosing to believe that promise in this moment. And
often we look back much later and we see we
(21:01):
see that God did profound things in us or in
others through our times of suffering. And many of us
live in that tension where we would say, I didn't
want that to happen. I still wouldn't have chosen that,
but I would never want to undo what God did
within me through that trial, through that suffering, because he
worked something really good within me, through.
S1 (21:21):
It, which takes me to your son and his death
a few years ago, and the the valley that you
walk through there. Um, did one of the poems that
you hung on to during that? Did it make it
into this collection?
S2 (21:36):
Yeah, yeah it did. There were actually a few of
them that were especially important to me in that. But, um, yeah,
there's there are a couple, I think, especially about the
the will of God, um, about God's graciousness to us
that we're especially important, especially one by Charles Egbert or
(21:58):
called Savior lead me that was so, so precious to me,
so precious to my. It just really directed my thoughts
in helpful ways in dark moments.
S1 (22:07):
So that's what a good poem will do. It will
direct you someplace where your heart is not pointing right
then that someplace where it needs to go. Right.
S2 (22:18):
Right. Yeah. And in your introduction to this whole whole program,
you said sometimes you don't have the words to speak,
and we all end up in these positions where we
don't have the words to speak. And what a what
a blessing that many people, many of our forebears, left us.
Words that we can speak. There is nothing inauthentic or
necessarily inauthentic about reading somebody else's prayer, or reading a
(22:40):
prayer that has been prepared in advance. So when we
don't have words to pray, we can just pray those
words with whatever feeling and authenticity we we have in
that moment. And all of these poems in this collection
are prayers. They're poetic prayers. So they combine prayer with poetry,
and they're there ready for us to to pray to
the Lord. And often in times of, of doubt or
(23:02):
disbelief or just sorrow or even fatigue. These have been
the prayers I've been able to turn outward to the Lord.
S1 (23:09):
Yes, there's a there's another in this one that we
just read. There's another section in here. The thing that
I've wondered, what do I bring to God? What do
I bring to the table? Am I important to God?
Am I important in his economy and his sovereignty? And
I know he loves me, and he's expressed his love
and has forgiven me. But what do I bring to
(23:30):
the table? And in this he says, Lord God of gods,
before whose throne stands storms and fire. Oh, what shall
we return to heaven that is our own, when all
the world belongs to thee. And it makes me think
of the cattle on a thousand hills. You know it's.
He doesn't need anything from me. He and the poet
says we have no offering to impart. But praises and
(23:55):
a wounded heart. And I underlined that and underlined it,
and read again and again. A wounded heart is something
that God desires to turn toward him. And that is
a great offering, isn't it?
S2 (24:13):
It is. Yeah. And I think what the poet is
getting hold of is what many people have said, that
the only thing we bring to to God is the
sin that made our salvation necessary, right? That's our Contribution
to our salvation. It's the sin and God does all
the rest. But here he says, you know, he's now
looking at this as a Christian, and he's saying, what
(24:34):
we do bring to God. We bring praises that are
truly delightful to God because he's changed our hearts. He
receives our praises. He receives our worship. We also bring
those wounded hearts asking that he would heal them, that
he would forgive us, and so on. So, um, yeah,
what a blessing to know that all the world belongs
to God. But still, God is glad to receive what
(24:56):
he does not need from us, but what is truly
delightful to his heart, which is the praises of his people.
S1 (25:02):
What I enjoy, oh, make it mine in making me
that have it thine. So make me content with what
I've been given here in this world. Make me thankful
to you so that because I am yours. Okay, so
you get the idea of what we're talking about here today.
Pilgrim prayers, a collection by Tim Challies, and he's written
(25:25):
the devotions and chosen the scripture that goes around it.
If you'd like a copy, I'd love to send it
to you. Go to the website Chris fabriclive.org. Scroll down.
You'll see how you can be a friend or partner
with us right there. And we'd love to send you
a copy of this Chris Fabriclive or call 866 95 fabric.
(25:46):
More poetry and thoughts coming straight ahead on Moody Radio.
We are 11 days from the Sanctity of Human Life Sunday,
(26:07):
which is a celebration of the worth of the unborn.
It's a day to honor and remember the little ones lost,
and a day to pray and pool our energy to
help people see the positives of being pro abundant life.
And to that end, Carenet is offering a free Sanctity
of Human Life Sunday kit. You can download it right now.
(26:29):
So if you're a pastor or you're in leadership at
your church and you don't have plans yet on that day,
click the Care Net link at Livorno or for you.
If this is a really important issue, let your church
leadership know about this opportunity to engage those in the
pew and then engage the community about the sanctity of
(26:51):
human life. Go to npr.org. Click the Green Care Net
link and you'll see how you can download that free
Sanctity of Human Life Sunday kit. Again, go to Chris
Fabry Live. Org Tim Challies is joining us today at
the back Fence. He's written Pilgrim Prayers, devotional poems that
(27:11):
awaken your heart to the goodness, greatness, and glory of God.
It has been doing something inside of me. If you've
listened to this program over the last six months, you've
heard me quote some poetry, which I don't do a
whole lot. And it's because of this book and what
it is and because of the poems included in the book.
And I want to give you an opportunity to talk
(27:33):
with Tim today at the back fence. As a matter
of fact, Mary is in Wisconsin, and as I understand it, Mary,
you you write poetry. You you put this verse down.
Is that right?
S3 (27:46):
Um, I do, yes, for a long time.
S1 (27:49):
I'm glad to hear that, because that's one of the
things that we can also, um, encourage people to do
is to write things out, even though you're not going
to get to the, you know, the place of these 1800,
1700 poetry. This is coming from your heart. So what
did you want to read for us today?
S3 (28:10):
Um, yeah. Um, it's, um. Well, I'll start it. Doing, doing,
doing till you drop. Do you suffer from this syndrome?
Does it seem you cannot stop? The enemy is crafty
as he whispers in your mind. Keep on going, keep
on moving. Then fulfillment you will find. How many times
(28:31):
do we listen to this voice? And so we choose
better when the best should be our choice. Follow Christ's
example first and foremost. Always pray only then you will
think clearly and you will follow in Christ's way. Are
you tired? Are you weary? Are you ready to give in?
Always staying busy is like saying yes to sin. Let
(28:54):
us join together to defeat this enemy. He will stop
at nothing to see our lives in tragedy. Do not
quit the battle. Just slow down. Adjust your pace. Our
victory has been promised. Remember to live in God's grace.
S4 (29:13):
Wow. Okay.
S1 (29:14):
So why did you get emotional when you said the
word tragedy?
S3 (29:20):
Um, well, I'm having a really, really bad day, but
I thought, you know what? I am going to flip
the switch, and I'm going to encourage others. Sometimes encourage encouragers,
need more encouragement because you're you're giving. And if we
don't take time to sit still long enough, we miss
(29:43):
what God is giving us to do.
S4 (29:47):
Yes.
S1 (29:47):
Well, the doing comes from the being the exactly you.
And if you're if you're not being if you're not, uh,
getting that source from him and you're just doing. See,
I think you're exactly right. The enemy can do these things.
Can can trick us into thinking doing more is what
is going to get us, you know, a check mark
(30:09):
with God. And sometimes it's at the what is the.
It's at the ambulatory rate. It's the walking rate of
the human condition where we where we learn the most
when we just take one step after another, when we
slow down. I'm so glad, Mary, you hang on. I
(30:32):
want to get your information because somebody's going to say,
you got to send me that poem of Mary. But, Tim,
what do you how do you respond to Mary?
S2 (30:41):
I think the the best poems are ones that pick
up on a universal human experience. So if you have
an experience that's completely unique and write a poem about it,
that's fine. But it may not really resonate with people,
but the busyness of life and the distractions of life,
which is what Mary wrote about. Those are exactly the
sorts of things we can all identify with, which makes
(31:03):
a poem like that have broad appeal, right? Lots of
people hear it and think, yep, that's me.
S4 (31:08):
Yeah, exactly.
S1 (31:09):
Um, and and that the whole idea of slowing down
in this kind of world, in the internet world and
the microwave world where everything is, you know, all I
have to do is turn to my phone and ask
it a question about The Brady Bunch and who played this,
you know, and we have all this information that's here,
and we're drowning in it, aren't we?
S2 (31:31):
Yeah. And I think part of the beauty of poetry
is that to properly understand it, we do need to
slow down. We need to read it repeatedly, as we've
been saying, we've really we have to take the extra
time to understand it, to try to understand what the
poet meant and then to apply it to our own lives.
So there is a benefit to poetry, which is that
(31:52):
it does just slow us down and cause us to
focus on on the poem that's before us.
S1 (31:58):
And I'm glad that we have the opportunity to do
that here, even here on Moody Radio, to just take
a few minutes to slow down and marry, that you
turn things around that you were having a bad day
and you said, you know what? I'm going to use
the struggle that I'm going Through to encourage somebody else.
So thank you for calling in here today. Um, again,
(32:20):
Pilgrim Prayers is our thank you. You can find out
more about it@chris.org. There's a famous poet, Christina Rossetti, that
who has written a lot about, especially about the cross.
When I think of her or about the birth of Jesus.
But there's a poem that you include in here. Why
(32:41):
did you include this one?
S2 (32:45):
Well, for a couple of reasons. Uh, first, I think
it may be just the best. The best poem. Just
as these things go. The objectively best poem in the collection.
And it just moves me every time I read it.
But it also like that we were just talking about
it picks up on a universal human experience or a
universal Christian experience, which is if God has done something
(33:09):
so tremendously wonderful for us in sending His Son, if
Jesus Christ has done something so incredible for us and
laying down his life for us. How can my heart
grow cold? How can I hear the wonder and the
glories of the cross. And find my heart unmoved? And
that's what she's grappling with. The question she asks in
(33:29):
this prayerful poem to the Lord.
S1 (33:31):
Well, because everything, everything is so easily crowd out, you know,
like like we were talking about the fear of God,
the other fears, the daily vicissitudes of life can crowd
out that. So would you read this for us from
Christina Rossetti?
S5 (33:48):
Sure.
S2 (33:50):
Am I a stone and not a sheep? That I
can stand. Oh, Christ, beneath thy cross to number. Drop by,
drop thy blood slow loss and yet not weep not
so those women loved. Who with exceeding grief lamented thee.
Not so fallen Peter, weeping bitterly. Not so. The thief
(34:11):
was moved. Not so. The sun and moon which hid
their faces in a starless sky. A horror of great
darkness at broad noon. I only I yet give not awe.
But seek thy sheep. True Shepherd of the flock. Greater
than Moses. Turn and look once more. And smite a rock.
S1 (34:35):
That the ending of that smite a rock. And. And
a lot of times the the beginning. The great ending
is in the beginning, and the great beginning is in
the ending. Because she begins. Am I a stone? And
she ends and smite a rock. So she's. She's admitting
my heart is hard. I don't I'm I'm not appreciating
(35:00):
the the depth of suffering and the lengths to which
you went to redeem me. Oh, God. Do something. I
can't do it on my own. right?
S2 (35:11):
Yeah, exactly. And the poem is titled Good Friday, which
makes sense of it. This, um, she's pondering on Good
Friday or about Good Friday, the work of Jesus Christ.
And yeah, why is my heart so hard and greater
than Moses? Turn and look once more and smite a
rock which says Moses hit the rock! While she knows
that Christ can hit the rock of her heart and
cause it to pour forth in praise, and even more
(35:34):
so just that the wonder, the glory of what? What
God has done. So I love as well just her
knowledge of Scripture and how she draws in all these
different threads from, you know, us being sheep and God
our shepherd. Um, to the women outside the tomb and
Peter and the thief on the cross and, um, the
hours of darkness.
S5 (35:54):
And so.
S2 (35:54):
On. So, yeah, just there's so much there. It's so
rich and just so evocative. How can your heart be
unmoved as you read that and ponder that?
S4 (36:02):
Well, when she.
S1 (36:03):
Says, I only I, you know, everybody else here is,
is affected by this. Why why am I not? I'm
looking at me, and it's almost like she's not shaming
herself for it. It's. She's observing this in her own
heart and seeing, here is my condition. What is going
to get me out of this? And it's not, as
(36:24):
Mary said, you know, doing ten things or and making
a checklist so that I can appreciate this. It's asking.
It's giving God entrance to her heart, isn't it?
S2 (36:36):
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So it's just pondering the cross. This
is something we need to do. You've heard many people
say you need to preach the gospel to yourself every day, right?
You wake up with a cold heart. What do you do?
You turn to the cross. You ponder the cross. You
ponder the gospel. Or you wake up and everything's just
feeling great and you're really marveling in Jesus Christ. What
do you do? The same thing. You preach the gospel
(36:58):
to yourself, that you're a sinner and Christ is a
great Savior, and that is what melts your heart, and
that is what provokes great wonder and great praise and
worship of God.
S1 (37:10):
It was probably a couple of years ago that I
said we had Rosalie de Rosé on, and I said, Rosie,
I think it may have been off the air. I
think I need more poetry in my life, I need.
And so she gave me a, you know, read Gerard
Manley Hopkins. You know, I've got a hymnal, which is
a great place to find a lot of, you know,
these poems that had been written long ago and then
(37:32):
set to music. But it wasn't until this book came
across my desk that I started to then daily look
at what we're doing, what we're doing right now. And
that's why I wanted to offer it to you. I
know it's probably not for everybody. Not everybody is, you know,
in the in the vein of I need a poem
in my life every day. But I guarantee you, if
(37:55):
you start to do this, if you go through this book,
one poem a day, or you say you can read
one in the morning and one in the evening, begin
and end your day, A, your life begins to be
richer because you're steeping yourself in these thoughts of people.
Great writers, first of all, who have have these turns
(38:16):
of phrases that will just arrest you and stop you,
but also the richer, deeper life that you're seeing that
this is exactly where I am. This is my stony heart.
So if this is something that you'd like, I'd love
to put it in your hands. Tim Challies Pilgrim Prayers.
The hardcover copy is yours, and if you go to
(38:39):
Chris fabry.org, you can see how you can get that
copy at Chris fabric.org. Thanks for your support. We'll continue
right after these messages. You know what this book has
(39:01):
made me do as well. And that is look for
some of these kinds of poems myself, because they have
this thing called the internet. And you can go on there,
you know, you hear about a poem or a poet
that you can turn into a prayer. And so I
have 51. And coming up on 52, that's what Tim
(39:22):
Challies has done inside of me, made me kind of
a detective, a poet detective to find some of these
as well, because they're out there. Right, Tim?
S2 (39:32):
They are? Yeah. Um, Google did us a great favor
a number of years ago by scanning most of the
world's books. Unfortunately, they stopped the project, but for a
long time they were scanning books from all these major libraries.
And all of these then have been scanned and put
out there all these amazing collections of poets, poetry.
S4 (39:50):
Yeah.
S1 (39:51):
We had a friend on the program in October, Carol,
and she was coming down to the end of her journey,
and I sent her one of these poems. I just
took a picture of a couple of couple of the verses.
And this is on this is by William Edward Biederwolf.
And I just sent this to a friend who has
a family member, young family member who's been diagnosed with cancer.
(40:15):
I sent the same thing and the response was, thank you,
thank you, thank you. So let me read this for
somebody who needs a little strength. Somebody who needs a
little perseverance. Somebody who's had a diagnosis. I want you
to hear these words. I pray for strength. Oh, God.
To bear all loads that on my shoulders. Press of
(40:39):
thy directing or thy chastening rod. Lest from their growing
stress my spirit sink in utter helplessness. I pray for
strength to run in duty's narrowest paths, nor turn aside
in broader ways that glow in pleasure's sun. Lest I
(41:00):
grow satisfied. Isfied where thou from me? Thy smiling face
must hide. I pray for strength to wait submissively. When
I cannot see my way. Or if my feet would haste.
Some close barred gate bids my hot zeal delay. Or
to some by path turns their steps astray. I pray
(41:25):
for strength to live. To all life's noble ends. Prompt,
just and true myself. My service. Unto all give and giving.
Yet renew my store. For bounty of life's journey through.
And then the last verse I pray, O God, for strength.
(41:46):
When as life's love and labors find surcease. Cares, crosses,
burdens to lay down at length. And so with joys
increase to die. If not in triumph In thy peace. And.
And one of the things I love about this is
(42:06):
when you find a word that I don't know, you
give a footnote searcy's I remember sorrow's surcease from something
from Poe, I believe. But surcease is cessation and relief.
So to be able to have this stop and to
be relieved of whatever it is that is causing pain.
(42:29):
ET cetera. ET cetera. I and I go back and
I underlined all of these. The first line I pray
for strength. I pray for strength to run, to wait,
to live. And then I pray for strength to die.
That is something else, isn't it?
S2 (42:49):
Yeah. And that's where closely observing a poem is very helpful. Right?
When you find these repeated lines or repeated emphases, it
helps you understand what the the poet is driving at.
And another thing. So he uses a word we don't
use anymore, which is surcease. He also uses a concept
we don't use all that often, which is God's chastening rod. Um,
(43:12):
and so in this poem, he's saying that we have
all these loads on our shoulders. We sometimes don't know,
is God just directing us through these things, or is
there a sense in which he's chastening? Chastening us just
as a father chastens the son or disciplines the son
whom he loves. And so I think it's so important
that when we go through times of real difficulty, we
(43:33):
at least consider what is God meaning to do and
what might be behind this God. I mean, there's so
often we don't suffer because we've done anything wrong, but
there may be times when we have. And I found
that that's an emphasis that's really been lost in our
time compared to former times. People wanted to think clearly.
Could it be that God is disciplining me out of
(43:55):
love and steering me back to the way I ought
to go?
S1 (43:58):
Yes. And to be able to then live fully in
whatever situation you're in. Not to wait until you get
through this in order to get over it or around it.
Much like grief, you know, a lot of people talk
about grief. You know, I just want to get over this.
I want to be past this grief. And it's like
with with the loss that you've been through and that
(44:18):
grief is going to be with you for the rest
of your days. And that grief does not have to
be your enemy. It can be your friend because it
reminds you of Nick and life and why you've been
left here, you know, to to live fully in the
in the shadow of what has happened. Right?
S5 (44:38):
Yeah.
S2 (44:38):
The only way God could take away a deep grief
like that is to take away the love that made
that grief possible. And so, of course, God is not
going to remove my love for my son. Therefore the
grief will remain. But that grief can accomplish something really good.
That grief can cause my faith to increase. It can
cause me to look ahead to the end. It can
cause me to. Well, it can cause me to do it,
(44:59):
this poet says. Which is the part I love most
about this poem, is he says, I pray for strength
to live to all life's noble ends. Prompt, just and true.
So he wants strength to live to all of life's
noble ends. In other words, all the good things that
God can accomplish through a life he wants to live,
to all of those purposes, to all of those ends,
(45:22):
and he wants to do in a way that's prompt
and just and true. And so myself, my service unto all,
give and giving, yet renew my store for bounty of
life's journey through. He's giving all that he has to
this great purpose.
S1 (45:36):
It makes me think of Rich Mullins and the one
of the last pictures it was on. The last album
of him standing at his arms are kind of pointed down,
and he looks like someone said he looks like an arrow.
He looks like an arrow. You know, I want to
be an arrow that's pointed that way. But there's an
awful lot of trials and struggles and things that we
(45:57):
we meet in this life. And these words give life
and cause us to draw closer to the one who
gave it to us. Tim Challies again, I'll say thank you.
Thank you for the gift of the book and the collecting,
all of these writing around it, the devotions, and I'm
looking forward to somebody writing me in a month or
(46:18):
two saying, I am just enjoying this so much and
I'm changed by it. Thanks for your work and your
words today.
S2 (46:26):
Thanks for having me.
S1 (46:28):
Tim Challies Pilgrim Prayers. It's a hardback book and I
want to send it to you. As I mentioned, just
go to the website. That's the easiest way. Go to
Chris Fabry live.org. Thanks for listening. Our program is a
production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.
There are times in life when you just don't have
the words. Have you ever been through one of those times?
Maybe today. Is it time like that for you? You
gone through some kind of loss or upheaval. You're struggling
to believe that God is for you. You've made a mistake.
You feel like a failure. You've come up against some
(00:26):
hard providence of God, and you believe God is sovereign.
But you have no idea what in the world he's
doing right now. Does that ring a bell in your
soul today? There are believers who have lived through the ages,
who have gone through the season that you are experiencing,
and they have expressed their heart in words that are
(00:48):
going to hit home with you today, I believe. Have
you ever read a phrase or a verse that captured
the way you felt? Has that ever happened to you?
A few months ago, I was sent the sent the
advance copy of a book titled Pilgrim Prayers, and I
began to read one of these poems there 50 of
them in the book, and it began to read the
(01:08):
poems and the devotion around it, and the Scripture one
every day. And even before I finished it 50 days later,
I knew, I really want to send you a copy
of this, and we're going to make that happen. Today
we're actually doing it all this month. But I've asked
Tim Challies to come back today. He was with us
(01:28):
in August, and he's come back at my request, because
that book has meant a lot to me in the
past few months. It's our thank you. Right now, I'm
excited about that. So welcome to the Radio Backyard poetry Corner.
Thanks for joining us. And I promise you, we are
going back and back the truck of encouragement up to
the dock of your heart, and we're going to unload
(01:50):
it again. Here's the website, Chris Fabry live. Here's our team,
which includes Ryan McConaughey doing all doing? All things technical.
Trish is our producer. Lisa is in the chair today.
Anthony will be answering your calls. Tim Challies is pastor,
speaker and author. It says he's a noted speaker. And
I want to ask him, how do you get the
(02:11):
noted in front of it? He's a pioneer in the
Christian blogosphere. Tens of thousands visit Charlie's dot com every day,
making it one of the most widely read and recognized
Christian blogs in the world. He's written several books, including
Visual Theology, epic, and the award winning Seasons of Sorrow.
(02:32):
He and his family live near Toronto, Ontario. Tim. Welcome back.
How are you doing today?
S2 (02:38):
I'm doing well. Thanks for having me.
S1 (02:40):
Can I just thank you for the gift of this
book and what it has done for me. I just
want to say, get that out of the way here
at the front.
S2 (02:49):
Are so glad to hear it. Yeah, it was a
joy to put it together and a joy to be
able to just release it to the world.
S1 (02:55):
Yes, but not everybody is like me, you know? Not everybody.
Poetry is not the thing that they respond to. We
all respond to something different. So there may be somebody
listening who says, you know, I don't have a desire
for poetry in my life, but I would have said
the same thing a few years ago. Why is poetry
(03:15):
important for the Christian?
S2 (03:19):
I think there could be a few different reasons. God
saw fit to give us lots of poetry and scripture.
The whole book of Psalms, for example. So I think
that would make the case that poetry matters and that
it ought to matter to Christians in particular, but also
because our spiritual forebears put a lot of effort into
writing it. So even if it's not particularly important in
(03:39):
our day and age, we can look back just a
few years and say, well, it used to be very important,
and maybe they knew something that we don't or something
that we've forgotten or neglected.
S1 (03:49):
Yeah. And why do you think that is? Why is
it become this art that has been pushed aside.
S2 (03:58):
I suppose songwriting has maybe taken over from just poetry
songs being essentially poetry set to music that's become a
more prominent form, perhaps. And I also think what happened
in the 1900s was the rise of free verse, most
of which is, I mean, it's counted as poetry, but
I don't think it's awfully good. And so we lost
(04:19):
some of the poetic forms that used to make poetry
beautiful in favor of free verse. And I think maybe
we just sort of worked our way out of loving
poetry by writing, by writing poetry. That wasn't very good.
And then I suppose there's probably some natural ebb and
flow to these things where for a time it's popular,
and then a time it fades away. So my hope
is we can look backward and see some of the
(04:40):
wonderful poetry that's been left to us, and maybe that
will provoke some of us to start a new era
of poetry.
S1 (04:46):
I got an email. I've been going through my December email.
I got to the end today. It was a wonderful thing. Um,
And there is a listener named Robin who was saying,
Happy New Year, and she included a poem by Mary Oliver.
And here's the poem. Poetry is a life, or this
is what she says about poetry. Poetry is a life
(05:08):
cherishing force. For poems are not words, after all. But
fires for the cold ropes let down to the lost.
Something as necessary as bread in the pockets of the hungry.
Do you agree with that?
S2 (05:26):
Sure. And part of the beauty of poetry is what
you see right there is we prefer. Of course, it
makes sense. We prefer prose, which is just stating things
as they are. But part of the beauty of poetry
is that you use pictures. You use word pictures to
describe things which evoke feeling, but also demand some thought
and reflection. And so instead of just saying it, you
(05:50):
can make it sound beautiful and you can get people
to think about what you mean and then interpret your poetry.
Just like in those lines that were read for us.
They were poetic in the sense of we need to
think about them a little bit.
S1 (06:01):
So the words almost arrest you or stop you if
you're looking on the page. And poetry was was meant
to be read aloud or you could hear it. So
something that you read, like I say, ropes let down
to the lost or bread in the pockets of the hungry.
When you say that it should, it immediately does something internal.
(06:23):
It pulls you in, doesn't it?
S2 (06:26):
It does. Yeah. Just think about Psalm 23, one of
the greatest poems ever written. David could have said a
lot about God. He could have given us many. He
could have given us many straight up, straightforward ways of
describing God. But think what's caught up in saying, the
Lord is my shepherd, right? He didn't have to give
us that picture, but he did. And there's something so
(06:46):
evocative in that. Or your rod and your staff, they
comfort me. Again, He could have said, God comforts us
in many ways or something along those lines, but instead
he gave us this beautiful, poetic picture of what God
does or how God comforts us. And that's the beauty
of poetry is grabbing these forms we have in language,
(07:07):
these forms God has given us, and then enlisting them
in communicating truth in beautiful ways.
S1 (07:12):
I wonder if the pastors in the 17 and 1800s,
if they quoted more poetry than pastors today, you probably
have not done the research on that. But what's what's
your idea?
S2 (07:29):
I would imagine so, if for no other reason than
there were contemporary poets they could draw upon. But also
people were probably more accustomed to listening to poetry. So
I read a poem to our church last week in
our Sunday morning service, and I think that's only maybe
the second time we've done that in the history of
our church. And it was interesting for me at the
(07:49):
front of the room to look out and see people listening.
You could see people closing their eyes to listen, but
we don't really know how to listen to poetry. But
I felt like people really wanted to engage with it.
It was a New Year's poem that had been written
a couple hundred years ago, and I think it was
really meaningful to people just as an element of worship,
like a song without a melody. People really enjoyed it
(08:11):
and I think benefited from it.
S1 (08:13):
How do you describe that then? How do you listen
to poetry?
S2 (08:18):
Well, I think maybe closing your eyes as they did
is a good is a good practice when you're unaccustomed
to it just so you can focus on it. But yeah,
I think you have to listen for the pictures first.
You listen for the meter and for the rhyme, so
you can get a sense of what the poet is
trying to communicate in that way, but then start to
look or listen for those pictures and then try to
think about what those pictures mean, what the author is
(08:40):
trying to communicate through them. And most poetry needs to
be read several times. You mentioned you've read some of
these poems repeatedly now. And that's the best way to
to learn to love poetry is to read it many times,
to read it in different ways, different emphases on different words,
and eventually, through reading and rereading, I think you'll come
to a deeper appreciation of what the poet meant to
(09:03):
communicate through his words.
S1 (09:04):
Yes, and that's one of the things you say to do,
and I've done that as well, is I don't don't
just read it one time and then read the devotion
and close the book. Read it through, analyze. You know,
what is the form? Where? Where is the emphasis? And
then read it again. And if you can read it
aloud because so that you're listening and we're going to
(09:25):
do that today I want to we had Tim Challies
on with us in August. And I kind of whetted
your appetite for this today. I really want to go
deep into a couple of the poems that I found.
And if you are listening and you say poetry has
meant a great deal to me, light a fire in
somebody else today. Is there a a phrase? And it
(09:46):
could be a be a him, it could be a song,
or it could be a poem from antiquity that just
has arrested you in your life. I want you to
call us and let us know what that is. (877) 548-3675
is our number, and we'll open our lines. Now, if
you want to talk with Tim Challies and tell us
the line from the poem that still arrests you today,
(10:09):
but I hope you go to the website as well,
because this book, Pilgrim Prayers, it's a hardback book. There
are 50 of these devotions with 50 poems in them.
This is my gift to you. This is our gift
this month on Chris Fabry live. To anyone who calls
and gives a gift of any size, we want to
(10:30):
put this in the mail to you so you can
go to the website and do that. You can see
it right there, Chris Fabry live, or you can call
866 95 Faber and give a gift that way, and
we'll send you a copy of Tim Challies these pilgrim prayers,
devotional poems that awaken your heart to the goodness, greatness,
(10:50):
and glory of God. 866 95 favorite. Hymn. Charles is
with us today at the radio backyard fence, the poetry
corner here with me today and our featured resource. Actually
(11:14):
our thank you is Pilgrim Prayers by Tim. We talked
about this back in August, but I have been going
through it. And one of the folks that Laurie who
works with us, she said, Chris, this is exactly it
sounds like something that you would really love giving away.
And I said, yes, absolutely. And so I want to
send you a hardback copy of this, but instead of
(11:35):
kind of asking you the service question, I want to
dig deep into a couple of these poems today. And
the one that keeps jumping out to me is by
John Quarles. The title of this is a Prayer to
Desire and Delight in God. Devout aspirations. And let me
(11:56):
just read. Why don't I read the the devotional around it?
And then we'll get into the poem. Is that okay
with you, Tim?
S2 (12:04):
Sounds great.
S1 (12:05):
When God saves us by his grace, he begins a
remarkable work of reformation within us. We quickly learn that
he is changing us from the inside out. We might
be tempted to think that he would be content with
outward transformation, cleaner words, better behavior, diminished addictions. But he
(12:26):
means to accomplish something so much more real, so much
more thorough, so much more authentic. He means to transform
us at the level of the heart, the level of
our deepest longings and closest desires. Soon we find that
what had previously been desirable has become undesirable, and what
(12:49):
was previously unthinkable is now the very thing we long
and pray for. We find that God gives us holy
and devout aspirations, aspirations to fear him, love him, serve him,
obey him, and do all things for his glory. So
that's what comes before the poem. And then there's one
(13:13):
section that says observe. And you kind of give us
an idea. Here's how to read this, or here's something
you can look for. You say, this is a slightly
longer and more complicated poem than many in this collection,
but read it carefully and repeatedly and see how the
poet pleads with God for better and purer spiritual aspirations. So, Tim,
(13:37):
why don't you read? And it is longer and it's
like they you shouldn't do this on radio because you can't.
You're going to lose their attention. Folks, if you're unless
you're driving. Close your eyes and listen to this by
John Quarles.
S2 (13:53):
Great God, who sceptre rules the earth. Distil thy fear
into my heart. That being rapt with holy mirth, I
may proclaim. How good thou art. Open my lips that
I may sing full praises to my God, my King.
Great God, thy garden is defaced. The weeds thrive there.
Thy flowers decay. Oh, call to mind thy promise past.
(14:15):
Restore thou these. Cut those away. Till then let not
the weeds have power to starve. Or stunt the poorest
flower in all extremes. Lord, thou art still the mount.
Where to my hopes do flee. Oh, make my soul
detest all ill. Because so much abhorred by thee. Lord,
let thy gracious trials show that I am just. Or
(14:37):
make me so. Fountain of life and living breath. Whose
mercies never fail nor fade. Fill me with life that
hath no death. Fill me with light that hath no shade.
Appoint the remnant of my days to see thy power.
And sing thy praise. Lord God of gods. Before whose
throne stands storms and fire. Oh, what shall we return
(15:00):
to heaven that is our own. When all the world
belongs to thee. We have no offering to impart. But
praises and a wounded heart. O thou that sittest in heaven.
And sees my deeds without my thoughts within. Be thou,
my prince. Be thou my priest. Command my soul and
cure my sin. How bitter my afflictions be. I care not.
(15:21):
So I rise to thee. What I possess or what
I crave brings no content. Great God to me. If
what I would or what I have. Be not possessed
and blest in thee. What I enjoy or make it mine.
And making me that have it thine. When winter fortunes
cloud the brows of summer. Friends. When eyes grow strange.
(15:41):
When plighted faith forgets its vows. When earth and all
things in it change. O Lord, thy mercies fail me never.
Where thou lovest, thou lovest for ever. Great God, whose
kingdom hath no end. Into whose secrets none can dive.
Whose mercy none can apprehend. Whose justice? None can feel
and live. What my dull heart cannot aspire to. No, Lord,
(16:04):
teach me to admire.
S1 (16:08):
That is just. That will stop you in your tracks.
And I want to go back to. You know, I
think this is one of the reasons why I've been
looking at fear in the Bible and how important fear
is and how much we get fear of God wrong. Um,
because you say our aspirations to fear him even in
(16:29):
what I read before it. Great God, whose sceptre rules
the earth, distil thy fear into my heart. Art. Now what?
What does he mean there? What is John Quarles saying
to distill? Fear. It's like I don't want to distill fear.
Fear is bad, you know? Perfect love casts out all fear.
What is that fear that is being distilled or purified
(16:53):
in my heart?
S2 (16:55):
Sure, my understanding of biblical fear is that it usually
simply refers to a right understanding of the difference between
ourselves and God, and so it's rightly assessing who God
is and rightly assessing who we are. And then just
almost staring at the infinite chasm between the two. So
(17:15):
when we understand who God is, we understand who God,
who we are in relation to God. Well then, um,
then we're in the place we need to be to
humble ourselves before God. And of course, then to worship
God in a way that he is worthy of. Or,
as the poet says, that being rapt or enraptured with
holy mirth, I may proclaim, how good thou art. Open
(17:37):
my lips that I may sing full praises to my God,
my King, which shows that the right response to understanding
the fear of God is not screaming and running away.
It's opening lips and praise and worship to God.
S1 (17:50):
Running toward him. See? And that then will will orient
your heart as to what you fear the most. Because
most of the time, as we live and as believers,
most of the time, we don't live with the fear
of God. We live with the fear of penury. There's
another one of those big words we live with the
(18:12):
fear of not having enough and adequacy. We live with
a fear. We have this orphan spirit about us that,
you know, yeah, God's up there and he's sovereign and everything.
But I got to take care of this myself, or
what Peter did in the book of acts when they
told him, don't speak in that name. You know, Peter
says you need to do what you need to need
(18:34):
to do. I've got to. I've got. I fear God
rather than you who have the power to take my life.
So your the fear of God will orient you to
fearing other people or things won't it.
S2 (18:48):
Mhm. Yeah. Absolutely. And so one of the major sins
in my own heart, one of the major sins in
every human being, sinful human being's heart is fear of
man rather than fear of God. Right. When men are
big and God is small. And so, um, of course,
when we understand who God is rightly, then it does
set us in the right context. But other people as well.
(19:11):
It lowers all men to the ground, to the dust
before our great and awesome God.
S1 (19:16):
Yes, this is a and this is one of those
poems that I have underlined. I almost tried to. No,
I did almost I tried to memorize it. And then
I got stuck and I and I, I had a
hard time, but I could get the great God whose
sceptre rules the earth that Reorients. You know, God, you're
the one who's in control here. Distill thy fear into
(19:37):
my heart. Um, there's another on the second. I don't
know which stanza this is, but it says, Lord, let
thy gracious trials show that I am just. Or make
me so. And I think of James chapter one and
what he says. Whenever you fall into various trials, you
(20:01):
know this will lead to perseverance. Don't push those away. Uh,
he says he calls them gracious trials. I never look
at my trials as gracious. You know, at least at
first blush. I want to get out of that. Don't you?
S2 (20:17):
Right. Yeah. Of course. And, um, one of the struggles
we all have in a trial is having faith in
that moment, in the promises of God that he's working
all things for good, or that God does Jason, the
one he loves, and so on. And so in our trials,
we still need to express faith. Faith doesn't just save us.
(20:38):
Faith preserves us and keeps us going through the Christian life.
And it's in those moments of trial that we need
to express that faith and say to God, I may
not know what you're doing. I may not know why
you're doing it, but I believe you must be up
to something good because you've you've made that promise, and
I'm choosing to believe that promise in this moment. And
often we look back much later and we see we
(21:01):
see that God did profound things in us or in
others through our times of suffering. And many of us
live in that tension where we would say, I didn't
want that to happen. I still wouldn't have chosen that,
but I would never want to undo what God did
within me through that trial, through that suffering, because he
worked something really good within me, through.
S1 (21:21):
It, which takes me to your son and his death
a few years ago, and the the valley that you
walk through there. Um, did one of the poems that
you hung on to during that? Did it make it
into this collection?
S2 (21:36):
Yeah, yeah it did. There were actually a few of
them that were especially important to me in that. But, um, yeah,
there's there are a couple, I think, especially about the
the will of God, um, about God's graciousness to us
that we're especially important, especially one by Charles Egbert or
(21:58):
called Savior lead me that was so, so precious to me,
so precious to my. It just really directed my thoughts
in helpful ways in dark moments.
S1 (22:07):
So that's what a good poem will do. It will
direct you someplace where your heart is not pointing right
then that someplace where it needs to go. Right.
S2 (22:18):
Right. Yeah. And in your introduction to this whole whole program,
you said sometimes you don't have the words to speak,
and we all end up in these positions where we
don't have the words to speak. And what a what
a blessing that many people, many of our forebears, left us.
Words that we can speak. There is nothing inauthentic or
necessarily inauthentic about reading somebody else's prayer, or reading a
(22:40):
prayer that has been prepared in advance. So when we
don't have words to pray, we can just pray those
words with whatever feeling and authenticity we we have in
that moment. And all of these poems in this collection
are prayers. They're poetic prayers. So they combine prayer with poetry,
and they're there ready for us to to pray to
the Lord. And often in times of, of doubt or
(23:02):
disbelief or just sorrow or even fatigue. These have been
the prayers I've been able to turn outward to the Lord.
S1 (23:09):
Yes, there's a there's another in this one that we
just read. There's another section in here. The thing that
I've wondered, what do I bring to God? What do
I bring to the table? Am I important to God?
Am I important in his economy and his sovereignty? And
I know he loves me, and he's expressed his love
and has forgiven me. But what do I bring to
(23:30):
the table? And in this he says, Lord God of gods,
before whose throne stands storms and fire. Oh, what shall
we return to heaven that is our own, when all
the world belongs to thee. And it makes me think
of the cattle on a thousand hills. You know it's.
He doesn't need anything from me. He and the poet
says we have no offering to impart. But praises and
(23:55):
a wounded heart. And I underlined that and underlined it,
and read again and again. A wounded heart is something
that God desires to turn toward him. And that is
a great offering, isn't it?
S2 (24:13):
It is. Yeah. And I think what the poet is
getting hold of is what many people have said, that
the only thing we bring to to God is the
sin that made our salvation necessary, right? That's our Contribution
to our salvation. It's the sin and God does all
the rest. But here he says, you know, he's now
looking at this as a Christian, and he's saying, what
(24:34):
we do bring to God. We bring praises that are
truly delightful to God because he's changed our hearts. He
receives our praises. He receives our worship. We also bring
those wounded hearts asking that he would heal them, that
he would forgive us, and so on. So, um, yeah,
what a blessing to know that all the world belongs
to God. But still, God is glad to receive what
(24:56):
he does not need from us, but what is truly
delightful to his heart, which is the praises of his people.
S1 (25:02):
What I enjoy, oh, make it mine in making me
that have it thine. So make me content with what
I've been given here in this world. Make me thankful
to you so that because I am yours. Okay, so
you get the idea of what we're talking about here today.
Pilgrim prayers, a collection by Tim Challies, and he's written
(25:25):
the devotions and chosen the scripture that goes around it.
If you'd like a copy, I'd love to send it
to you. Go to the website Chris fabriclive.org. Scroll down.
You'll see how you can be a friend or partner
with us right there. And we'd love to send you
a copy of this Chris Fabriclive or call 866 95 fabric.
(25:46):
More poetry and thoughts coming straight ahead on Moody Radio.
We are 11 days from the Sanctity of Human Life Sunday,
(26:07):
which is a celebration of the worth of the unborn.
It's a day to honor and remember the little ones lost,
and a day to pray and pool our energy to
help people see the positives of being pro abundant life.
And to that end, Carenet is offering a free Sanctity
of Human Life Sunday kit. You can download it right now.
(26:29):
So if you're a pastor or you're in leadership at
your church and you don't have plans yet on that day,
click the Care Net link at Livorno or for you.
If this is a really important issue, let your church
leadership know about this opportunity to engage those in the
pew and then engage the community about the sanctity of
(26:51):
human life. Go to npr.org. Click the Green Care Net
link and you'll see how you can download that free
Sanctity of Human Life Sunday kit. Again, go to Chris
Fabry Live. Org Tim Challies is joining us today at
the back Fence. He's written Pilgrim Prayers, devotional poems that
(27:11):
awaken your heart to the goodness, greatness, and glory of God.
It has been doing something inside of me. If you've
listened to this program over the last six months, you've
heard me quote some poetry, which I don't do a
whole lot. And it's because of this book and what
it is and because of the poems included in the book.
And I want to give you an opportunity to talk
(27:33):
with Tim today at the back fence. As a matter
of fact, Mary is in Wisconsin, and as I understand it, Mary,
you you write poetry. You you put this verse down.
Is that right?
S3 (27:46):
Um, I do, yes, for a long time.
S1 (27:49):
I'm glad to hear that, because that's one of the
things that we can also, um, encourage people to do
is to write things out, even though you're not going
to get to the, you know, the place of these 1800,
1700 poetry. This is coming from your heart. So what
did you want to read for us today?
S3 (28:10):
Um, yeah. Um, it's, um. Well, I'll start it. Doing, doing,
doing till you drop. Do you suffer from this syndrome?
Does it seem you cannot stop? The enemy is crafty
as he whispers in your mind. Keep on going, keep
on moving. Then fulfillment you will find. How many times
(28:31):
do we listen to this voice? And so we choose
better when the best should be our choice. Follow Christ's
example first and foremost. Always pray only then you will
think clearly and you will follow in Christ's way. Are
you tired? Are you weary? Are you ready to give in?
Always staying busy is like saying yes to sin. Let
(28:54):
us join together to defeat this enemy. He will stop
at nothing to see our lives in tragedy. Do not
quit the battle. Just slow down. Adjust your pace. Our
victory has been promised. Remember to live in God's grace.
S4 (29:13):
Wow. Okay.
S1 (29:14):
So why did you get emotional when you said the
word tragedy?
S3 (29:20):
Um, well, I'm having a really, really bad day, but
I thought, you know what? I am going to flip
the switch, and I'm going to encourage others. Sometimes encourage encouragers,
need more encouragement because you're you're giving. And if we
don't take time to sit still long enough, we miss
(29:43):
what God is giving us to do.
S4 (29:47):
Yes.
S1 (29:47):
Well, the doing comes from the being the exactly you.
And if you're if you're not being if you're not, uh,
getting that source from him and you're just doing. See,
I think you're exactly right. The enemy can do these things.
Can can trick us into thinking doing more is what
is going to get us, you know, a check mark
(30:09):
with God. And sometimes it's at the what is the.
It's at the ambulatory rate. It's the walking rate of
the human condition where we where we learn the most
when we just take one step after another, when we
slow down. I'm so glad, Mary, you hang on. I
(30:32):
want to get your information because somebody's going to say,
you got to send me that poem of Mary. But, Tim,
what do you how do you respond to Mary?
S2 (30:41):
I think the the best poems are ones that pick
up on a universal human experience. So if you have
an experience that's completely unique and write a poem about it,
that's fine. But it may not really resonate with people,
but the busyness of life and the distractions of life,
which is what Mary wrote about. Those are exactly the
sorts of things we can all identify with, which makes
(31:03):
a poem like that have broad appeal, right? Lots of
people hear it and think, yep, that's me.
S4 (31:08):
Yeah, exactly.
S1 (31:09):
Um, and and that the whole idea of slowing down
in this kind of world, in the internet world and
the microwave world where everything is, you know, all I
have to do is turn to my phone and ask
it a question about The Brady Bunch and who played this,
you know, and we have all this information that's here,
and we're drowning in it, aren't we?
S2 (31:31):
Yeah. And I think part of the beauty of poetry
is that to properly understand it, we do need to
slow down. We need to read it repeatedly, as we've
been saying, we've really we have to take the extra
time to understand it, to try to understand what the
poet meant and then to apply it to our own lives.
So there is a benefit to poetry, which is that
(31:52):
it does just slow us down and cause us to
focus on on the poem that's before us.
S1 (31:58):
And I'm glad that we have the opportunity to do
that here, even here on Moody Radio, to just take
a few minutes to slow down and marry, that you
turn things around that you were having a bad day
and you said, you know what? I'm going to use
the struggle that I'm going Through to encourage somebody else.
So thank you for calling in here today. Um, again,
(32:20):
Pilgrim Prayers is our thank you. You can find out
more about it@chris.org. There's a famous poet, Christina Rossetti, that
who has written a lot about, especially about the cross.
When I think of her or about the birth of Jesus.
But there's a poem that you include in here. Why
(32:41):
did you include this one?
S2 (32:45):
Well, for a couple of reasons. Uh, first, I think
it may be just the best. The best poem. Just
as these things go. The objectively best poem in the collection.
And it just moves me every time I read it.
But it also like that we were just talking about
it picks up on a universal human experience or a
universal Christian experience, which is if God has done something
(33:09):
so tremendously wonderful for us in sending His Son, if
Jesus Christ has done something so incredible for us and
laying down his life for us. How can my heart
grow cold? How can I hear the wonder and the
glories of the cross. And find my heart unmoved? And
that's what she's grappling with. The question she asks in
(33:29):
this prayerful poem to the Lord.
S1 (33:31):
Well, because everything, everything is so easily crowd out, you know,
like like we were talking about the fear of God,
the other fears, the daily vicissitudes of life can crowd
out that. So would you read this for us from
Christina Rossetti?
S5 (33:48):
Sure.
S2 (33:50):
Am I a stone and not a sheep? That I
can stand. Oh, Christ, beneath thy cross to number. Drop by,
drop thy blood slow loss and yet not weep not
so those women loved. Who with exceeding grief lamented thee.
Not so fallen Peter, weeping bitterly. Not so. The thief
(34:11):
was moved. Not so. The sun and moon which hid
their faces in a starless sky. A horror of great
darkness at broad noon. I only I yet give not awe.
But seek thy sheep. True Shepherd of the flock. Greater
than Moses. Turn and look once more. And smite a rock.
S1 (34:35):
That the ending of that smite a rock. And. And
a lot of times the the beginning. The great ending
is in the beginning, and the great beginning is in
the ending. Because she begins. Am I a stone? And
she ends and smite a rock. So she's. She's admitting
my heart is hard. I don't I'm I'm not appreciating
(35:00):
the the depth of suffering and the lengths to which
you went to redeem me. Oh, God. Do something. I
can't do it on my own. right?
S2 (35:11):
Yeah, exactly. And the poem is titled Good Friday, which
makes sense of it. This, um, she's pondering on Good
Friday or about Good Friday, the work of Jesus Christ.
And yeah, why is my heart so hard and greater
than Moses? Turn and look once more and smite a
rock which says Moses hit the rock! While she knows
that Christ can hit the rock of her heart and
cause it to pour forth in praise, and even more
(35:34):
so just that the wonder, the glory of what? What
God has done. So I love as well just her
knowledge of Scripture and how she draws in all these
different threads from, you know, us being sheep and God
our shepherd. Um, to the women outside the tomb and
Peter and the thief on the cross and, um, the
hours of darkness.
S5 (35:54):
And so.
S2 (35:54):
On. So, yeah, just there's so much there. It's so
rich and just so evocative. How can your heart be
unmoved as you read that and ponder that?
S4 (36:02):
Well, when she.
S1 (36:03):
Says, I only I, you know, everybody else here is,
is affected by this. Why why am I not? I'm
looking at me, and it's almost like she's not shaming
herself for it. It's. She's observing this in her own
heart and seeing, here is my condition. What is going
to get me out of this? And it's not, as
(36:24):
Mary said, you know, doing ten things or and making
a checklist so that I can appreciate this. It's asking.
It's giving God entrance to her heart, isn't it?
S2 (36:36):
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So it's just pondering the cross. This
is something we need to do. You've heard many people
say you need to preach the gospel to yourself every day, right?
You wake up with a cold heart. What do you do?
You turn to the cross. You ponder the cross. You
ponder the gospel. Or you wake up and everything's just
feeling great and you're really marveling in Jesus Christ. What
do you do? The same thing. You preach the gospel
(36:58):
to yourself, that you're a sinner and Christ is a
great Savior, and that is what melts your heart, and
that is what provokes great wonder and great praise and
worship of God.
S1 (37:10):
It was probably a couple of years ago that I
said we had Rosalie de Rosé on, and I said, Rosie,
I think it may have been off the air. I
think I need more poetry in my life, I need.
And so she gave me a, you know, read Gerard
Manley Hopkins. You know, I've got a hymnal, which is
a great place to find a lot of, you know,
these poems that had been written long ago and then
(37:32):
set to music. But it wasn't until this book came
across my desk that I started to then daily look
at what we're doing, what we're doing right now. And
that's why I wanted to offer it to you. I
know it's probably not for everybody. Not everybody is, you know,
in the in the vein of I need a poem
in my life every day. But I guarantee you, if
(37:55):
you start to do this, if you go through this book,
one poem a day, or you say you can read
one in the morning and one in the evening, begin
and end your day, A, your life begins to be
richer because you're steeping yourself in these thoughts of people.
Great writers, first of all, who have have these turns
(38:16):
of phrases that will just arrest you and stop you,
but also the richer, deeper life that you're seeing that
this is exactly where I am. This is my stony heart.
So if this is something that you'd like, I'd love
to put it in your hands. Tim Challies Pilgrim Prayers.
The hardcover copy is yours, and if you go to
(38:39):
Chris fabry.org, you can see how you can get that
copy at Chris fabric.org. Thanks for your support. We'll continue
right after these messages. You know what this book has
(39:01):
made me do as well. And that is look for
some of these kinds of poems myself, because they have
this thing called the internet. And you can go on there,
you know, you hear about a poem or a poet
that you can turn into a prayer. And so I
have 51. And coming up on 52, that's what Tim
(39:22):
Challies has done inside of me, made me kind of
a detective, a poet detective to find some of these
as well, because they're out there. Right, Tim?
S2 (39:32):
They are? Yeah. Um, Google did us a great favor
a number of years ago by scanning most of the
world's books. Unfortunately, they stopped the project, but for a
long time they were scanning books from all these major libraries.
And all of these then have been scanned and put
out there all these amazing collections of poets, poetry.
S4 (39:50):
Yeah.
S1 (39:51):
We had a friend on the program in October, Carol,
and she was coming down to the end of her journey,
and I sent her one of these poems. I just
took a picture of a couple of couple of the verses.
And this is on this is by William Edward Biederwolf.
And I just sent this to a friend who has
a family member, young family member who's been diagnosed with cancer.
(40:15):
I sent the same thing and the response was, thank you,
thank you, thank you. So let me read this for
somebody who needs a little strength. Somebody who needs a
little perseverance. Somebody who's had a diagnosis. I want you
to hear these words. I pray for strength. Oh, God.
To bear all loads that on my shoulders. Press of
(40:39):
thy directing or thy chastening rod. Lest from their growing
stress my spirit sink in utter helplessness. I pray for
strength to run in duty's narrowest paths, nor turn aside
in broader ways that glow in pleasure's sun. Lest I
(41:00):
grow satisfied. Isfied where thou from me? Thy smiling face
must hide. I pray for strength to wait submissively. When
I cannot see my way. Or if my feet would haste.
Some close barred gate bids my hot zeal delay. Or
to some by path turns their steps astray. I pray
(41:25):
for strength to live. To all life's noble ends. Prompt,
just and true myself. My service. Unto all give and giving.
Yet renew my store. For bounty of life's journey through.
And then the last verse I pray, O God, for strength.
(41:46):
When as life's love and labors find surcease. Cares, crosses,
burdens to lay down at length. And so with joys
increase to die. If not in triumph In thy peace. And.
And one of the things I love about this is
(42:06):
when you find a word that I don't know, you
give a footnote searcy's I remember sorrow's surcease from something
from Poe, I believe. But surcease is cessation and relief.
So to be able to have this stop and to
be relieved of whatever it is that is causing pain.
(42:29):
ET cetera. ET cetera. I and I go back and
I underlined all of these. The first line I pray
for strength. I pray for strength to run, to wait,
to live. And then I pray for strength to die.
That is something else, isn't it?
S2 (42:49):
Yeah. And that's where closely observing a poem is very helpful. Right?
When you find these repeated lines or repeated emphases, it
helps you understand what the the poet is driving at.
And another thing. So he uses a word we don't
use anymore, which is surcease. He also uses a concept
we don't use all that often, which is God's chastening rod. Um,
(43:12):
and so in this poem, he's saying that we have
all these loads on our shoulders. We sometimes don't know,
is God just directing us through these things, or is
there a sense in which he's chastening? Chastening us just
as a father chastens the son or disciplines the son
whom he loves. And so I think it's so important
that when we go through times of real difficulty, we
(43:33):
at least consider what is God meaning to do and
what might be behind this God. I mean, there's so
often we don't suffer because we've done anything wrong, but
there may be times when we have. And I found
that that's an emphasis that's really been lost in our
time compared to former times. People wanted to think clearly.
Could it be that God is disciplining me out of
(43:55):
love and steering me back to the way I ought
to go?
S1 (43:58):
Yes. And to be able to then live fully in
whatever situation you're in. Not to wait until you get
through this in order to get over it or around it.
Much like grief, you know, a lot of people talk
about grief. You know, I just want to get over this.
I want to be past this grief. And it's like
with with the loss that you've been through and that
(44:18):
grief is going to be with you for the rest
of your days. And that grief does not have to
be your enemy. It can be your friend because it
reminds you of Nick and life and why you've been
left here, you know, to to live fully in the
in the shadow of what has happened. Right?
S5 (44:38):
Yeah.
S2 (44:38):
The only way God could take away a deep grief
like that is to take away the love that made
that grief possible. And so, of course, God is not
going to remove my love for my son. Therefore the
grief will remain. But that grief can accomplish something really good.
That grief can cause my faith to increase. It can
cause me to look ahead to the end. It can
cause me to. Well, it can cause me to do it,
(44:59):
this poet says. Which is the part I love most
about this poem, is he says, I pray for strength
to live to all life's noble ends. Prompt, just and true.
So he wants strength to live to all of life's
noble ends. In other words, all the good things that
God can accomplish through a life he wants to live,
to all of those purposes, to all of those ends,
(45:22):
and he wants to do in a way that's prompt
and just and true. And so myself, my service unto all,
give and giving, yet renew my store for bounty of
life's journey through. He's giving all that he has to
this great purpose.
S1 (45:36):
It makes me think of Rich Mullins and the one
of the last pictures it was on. The last album
of him standing at his arms are kind of pointed down,
and he looks like someone said he looks like an arrow.
He looks like an arrow. You know, I want to
be an arrow that's pointed that way. But there's an
awful lot of trials and struggles and things that we
(45:57):
we meet in this life. And these words give life
and cause us to draw closer to the one who
gave it to us. Tim Challies again, I'll say thank you.
Thank you for the gift of the book and the collecting,
all of these writing around it, the devotions, and I'm
looking forward to somebody writing me in a month or
(46:18):
two saying, I am just enjoying this so much and
I'm changed by it. Thanks for your work and your
words today.
S2 (46:26):
Thanks for having me.
S1 (46:28):
Tim Challies Pilgrim Prayers. It's a hardback book and I
want to send it to you. As I mentioned, just
go to the website. That's the easiest way. Go to
Chris Fabry live.org. Thanks for listening. Our program is a
production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.
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