July 28, 2025 • 46 mins
Are you willing to be the weak one? Meet Kevan and Tommy, lifelong friends who believe your need, your weakness might be just the thing God uses to help you develop deeper relationships and a strong community. What might happen in your life if instead of hiding your weaknesses or trying to be strong, you moved toward dependence on others? Don’t miss Chris Fabry Live.
Featured resource:
The Hospitality of Need by Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton
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Drive Through the Bible by Colin S. Smith
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:06):
Do you have a weakness in your life? You're hiding
from those around you. Is there some struggle you're going
through that you just kind of picked up and carried
because you don't want to bother other people with this?
Because if they knew it, they'd think less of you.
I have two guests today who want to encourage and
challenge you to let God use your weakness to prove
(00:26):
himself strong. They believe that burden you're carrying alone, or
that you're hiding because you're ashamed of it, might be
the very thing that will bring healing and growth not
only to you, but to those around you. Could that
be possible today on Chris Fabry live? Tommy and Kevin
join us. This might be the conversation that turns the
(00:48):
light on for you. I hope it is. Let's get going. First,
a thank you to our team. Ryan McConaughey doing all
things technical. Tricia is on a much needed vacation, and
Lisa is in the chair all this week. Thank you Lisa.
Rihanna will be answering your calls today and we are
down to the last four days of July. And I've
been telling you about Pastor Colin Smith's excellent book, Drive
Through the Bible. This is a game changer, especially if
(01:11):
you're in the group of people who say, I want
to read the Bible. I want to understand it, but
I just don't see how it all fits together. You see,
that weakness might be something that God can use to
help you understand. You'll discover in this book, drive through
the Bible how the Old Testament, the New Testament, the poetry,
the prophecy, how all of it points to Jesus. So
(01:31):
click through today. Request your copy of this 30 day journey.
The number is 8669538669532279. Give a gift of any size
or just go to npr.org. Scroll down. You'll see how
to support this program to receive that book by Colin Smith.
We are really close to reaching our goal for July,
(01:54):
so if you could help out today, that would be
really encouraging. Chris. Fabbri. Fabbri. Chris. Fabbri. Livorno. Thanks for
your support at the radio backyard fence. I don't know where.
Along the way, I internalized this message that if you're
a real Christian, if you are mature, you won't have struggles,
(02:15):
you won't have doubts, and that the goal of the
Christian life is to be strong, to have it all together.
Never let them see you sweat, right? Perhaps where I
first remembered the feeling was the year that my grandfather died.
He died on New Year's Eve, 1970. I was eight
years old, and I remember hearing two teachers talking in
(02:38):
the hallway, talking about me. Say I had big ears
and could hear these kinds of things from a distance.
Chris is doing so well with his grandfather's death, isn't he? Yeah. Yeah,
he sure is. And I interpreted that to mean, well,
Chris is not crying all the time, and he's doing
his homework, and he's, you know, he's being strong. So
(02:58):
the message I internalized was don't show emotion. Do your work.
Don't let anybody know what's going on inside. If you
have doubts, if you have fears, if you have struggles,
keep those to yourself. If you want to be a success.
You be strong. And I think that experience back there
in the third grade has followed. I'm not I'm not
(03:20):
blaming my teachers, but I, I think there was something
to that that I, that I then project that onto God.
I want to see what our guests have to say
about that, because I think they are going to gently
blow that idea out of the water. They have teamed
up to write what I think is an important book
for me, and maybe for you. The hospitality of need how,
(03:44):
depending on one another, helps us heal and grow together.
Kevin Chandler writes and speaks worldwide about friendship and disability.
He founded the nonprofit We Carry Kevin. Kevan. He and
his wife Katie have been married almost five years now
and they enjoy doing a lot of stuff together. Grow vegetables,
read to each other. Kevin, welcome to the program. How
(04:06):
are you doing today?
S2 (04:09):
Great. Thanks for having me. Chris.
S1 (04:11):
Along with Kevin is Tommy Shelton. He grew up as
a pastor's son in North Carolina, and he's now a
pastor himself in Florida at Live Oaks Bible Church in
Palm Harbor. He and his wife, Mara, have been married
25 years. Tomorrow, early happy anniversary. They have six children. Tommy,
welcome to the program.
S3 (04:31):
Thank you. Wonderful to be here.
S1 (04:33):
And the book again. The Hospitality of Need is our
featured resource. Just go to Chris Fabry Live.com. Kevin, you
first respond to what I just said about me in
the third grade.
S2 (04:44):
Oh, man. Um, I mean, I think that's the story
of a lot of us, um, the story of, uh,
living in a culture, especially in the church and especially
for men. Uh, this idea that, um, we should come
across like, we're we're doing fine or that when when
(05:05):
we're doing fine, that means that, uh, we're not we
haven't been emotionally affected. Um, that that's kind of the
healthy response. And and that's not the healthy response. And I, I, um,
I think something that we are also noticing in our
culture is and we see this not just in this conversation,
(05:28):
but in a lot of topics, the pendulum swing. Right. So, um,
we come from a culture and a generation where you
don't talk about your feelings. You may not even recognize
them yourself. Um, and, and so the image of strength is, uh,
(05:48):
you know, the silent generation and and not expressing Brushing
your needs. And then the pendulum swing right now is being,
I guess you could say like over emotional or or
creating needs or issues, you know, and, and the, the
conversation in, in our book in the Hospitality of Need
(06:11):
is that tightrope walk down the center, um, in between
those where your need um, as as we believe God
created it to be is not a burden. And it's
not an idol, but it's actually a tool, um, that
can open doors into deeper relationship, deeper fellowship and friendship
(06:35):
with others and ultimately point us and point others toward Christ. Yes.
S1 (06:42):
Okay. So that's really important. What what Kevin just said
your need as you listen to this today, whatever it is,
and you may have 100 or 1000 of them. But
just think about some need that you have right now
that you maybe have spiked or maybe you've leaned into,
and it is everything to you. That need is not
(07:04):
the burden that you have to bear alone, and not
bearing it alone means that you might experience more community
and more grace and more understanding. If you open that
gift for others to come alongside you. Uh, let me
go quickly to you, Tommy. How do you respond to
that third grade story and how does it fit into
(07:25):
your book? And now I'm not hearing Tommy. There he is. Okay.
I'm sorry.
S4 (07:33):
Go ahead. Yeah. The the idea of, um, of emotions being, uh, weaknesses.
It's just it's very foreign to me, uh, I even.
S5 (07:46):
Yeah. I think we're having problems with.
S1 (07:48):
We're having Tommy. We're having problems with your your connection
because I'm just getting a few of your words, so
let me.
S4 (07:53):
Well, let me reset it, and I'll be right back
with you.
S5 (07:56):
Okay. Yeah.
S1 (07:57):
Um, so if you go to the website. You'll see
the book, The Hospitality of Need. How, depending on one another,
helps us heal and grow together. Maybe this is just
the inability to continue with Tommy. Maybe that right there
is the perfect metaphor of what we're talking about. Well, okay.
(08:19):
Go ahead. Tommy, I'm hearing you chuckle.
S2 (08:22):
Oh, that was me. I was chuckling. Kevin.
S5 (08:24):
Oh.
S2 (08:26):
Sorry.
S5 (08:27):
Well you keep chuckling because I like to hear it.
S2 (08:30):
Well, well because it is it is a point that's
made in the book that um, you know, another aspect
of need is the inconvenience of it. And um, and
sometimes what we think is an inconvenience is actually a grace,
you know, and, um, we're talking about emotions right now
(08:50):
in this particular conversation. Um, but a lot of the, um,
the undertaking of the book came from my experience with
physical needs. I'm in a wheelchair. I require a lot
of help. Um, right before we got on here, I
ran out and asked my wife to, you know, address
(09:10):
my foot in my wheelchair. And, um, I'm just not.
An hour goes by in my life where I don't
depend on other people, and I could be bitter about that.
Or I could be, um, an obsessive about that. You know,
on either end. Um, but instead, uh, I've chosen to
(09:32):
see this as a chance to, um, be closer to
my wife, to be closer to my friends. Um, because I,
I require their help and their attention, and, um. And
that's not just me. You know, it's not me being awesome,
I can tell you that for sure. Um, but it's
(09:52):
it's the Holy Spirit working. Um, and it's also these friends,
you know, my wife, my family, my friends from over
the years. Um, because they make it easy, they make
it possible to invite them in.
S5 (10:09):
Um, there's.
S1 (10:09):
One chapter where you talked about that, that you felt
like a burden, and you. All of these people were
coming alongside you to help you, and you had figured
out a way for you not to be as big
a burden to them. And one of your friends kind
of look at you, the corner of his eye and thought,
where are you getting this thing that you're a burden
(10:30):
to us? I want you to talk about that. And
we're going to talk more with Tommy when we come back.
This Chris Fabry live on Moody Radio. This is a really, really,
I think, important book that is going to help the church.
It's going to help you and me the Hospitality of need.
It's our featured resource. Click through today's information right there.
Chris Fabry live. Chris Fabry live. Tommy Shelton and Kevin
(11:06):
Chandler have teamed up to write The Hospitality of Need.
How deep? Depending on one another helps us heal and
grow together. Do you look at your need, whatever that
is in your life as something? I can't tell this
to anybody or on the other side. It's all that
you have. It defines you. Tommy and Kevin want to
(11:30):
help you navigate that, to walk that kind of tightrope
so that God can meet you and meet your needs
as well as those around you. So let me go
back to you, Tommy. Go to Chris. Aug. We have
the hospitality of need right there. Chris. Fabri. Tommy, respond
to my third grade story and what you want to say.
S4 (11:52):
Well, wonderful. Thank you. I'm tempted to cry over spilled Wi-Fi,
but I'm not going to because only weak people cry. No, um.
I have to confess that it is very much a
foreign idea to me that somehow, uh, emotions, you know,
are are synonymous with weakness. It's not. It's not what
I saw, um, in my own family, specifically with my
(12:14):
father and I. And I've been thinking about this, especially
in the in the break while I was sorting out
the tech side of things. I think maybe what it
was is that my dad would often, while preaching, he
would cry, um, you know, he would he would express
his emotions openly and freely, but he also still was
able to do so many amazing things in the midst
(12:36):
of it. He still preached the sermon. He didn't have to,
you know, stop or or or, you know, um, or
forgive me and like, leave the sanctuary until he got
himself together. He. He would preach through it or you know.
And so the image that I got in my head,
even when I first heard you ask a question, I
thought about a dude repairing a hole in the roof, like,
while crying. I think if you're still able to do what,
(12:59):
what needs to be done, I think that only adds
like richness to the expression of it. Um, you know, um,
my whole family is a bit of a leaky bunch.
We can't tell a heartfelt story without, you know, getting
watery eyed. And to this day, uh, I probably only
get through about a third of my sermons without having
to pull a, you know, a Kleenex out. Um, so
(13:20):
it is like that idea of of emotions being, um,
a weakness, um, is a little foreign, but I think
we could all agree that watching just someone in a,
you know, in a, in a cage of emotion and
be completely incapacitated by it, um, I feel great compassion,
but it's almost like it's okay to feel. Um, but
(13:42):
press through it with my kids. Um, and some of
this comes from an awesome school that we have. And,
of course, um, you know, just trying to live our
lives according to Scripture. Um, we will say and tell them,
you know, that courage is not a lack of fear.
Courage is facing fears bravely. So you might feel dreadfully
afraid of what you're doing. But real courage is pressing through,
(14:04):
you know, um, even though you feel, you know, great fear.
S5 (14:08):
So, you know, the other side.
S1 (14:10):
Of that is the Psalms. You cannot read the Psalms,
you know, think about the Psalm 22 and and Jesus
calling this out from the cross. This was the real
guttural feel of the person who feels the way that
he felt. So those those feelings, as I read the
Psalms is like, give me a freedom to feel. But that, uh,
(14:33):
you said something else, Kevin, a little earlier, that sometimes
if you stunt your feelings and you push them down
and want to be strong. You don't even know what
you need. You don't even know what you want in
your life because you've pushed it down for so long, right?
S2 (14:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, I'd love to hear
from Tommy about, um, we just got off of a
book tour. That was really fun. This past week, we
got to go around a few states and, uh, share
about the book and have some speaking events. And in that, um, Tommy,
you mentioned, uh, at one of the events about independence
(15:11):
and how, uh, you know, most sermons today are, uh,
in disguise about about independence. Could could you share a
bit about that?
S4 (15:25):
Surely, you know, so as a preacher and I was
raised by a preacher. So I've been around preaching, you know,
my entire life. Um, and it it seems to me
now I love the bride of Christ. I'm a churchman.
I love the church. And I'm always very careful with
my critiques of the church. Um, because, you know, I,
I can't claim to love somebody, but but say like, oh,
but man, your wife is terrible. So I love the
(15:47):
Lord Jesus, so I need to love his bride as well.
But when I look around and and hear from the pulpits, um,
of so many churches, what I hear is a gospel
of like self improvement and betterment and even. But and
that's not even the core of the problem. The core is,
I think how we define improvement and betterment seems to
(16:07):
be more and more and more capability, which means needing
other people less and less and less. Here's how you
can not need anyone. And I find that to be
completely antithetical to even how Jesus lived his life. And
that's some of the challenging but fun things of the
book that that we wrote together is, is seeing Jesus, um,
(16:29):
having vulnerabilities and having needs and how he responded to
those his physical needs. He didn't lack anything. He was
infinite God in flesh, but in his um. Experience as flesh. He,
you know, he got tired and he got thirsty. And
how did he do? He, you know, um, he didn't
remove himself. He he did. For some quiet time with
(16:50):
his father and to pray. But he engaged with other.
People to see those needs met, to get those needs met.
S1 (16:57):
To the detriment of himself in a lot of ways, too,
because the disciples that he wanted to follow him, you know,
were were so clueless at times, at least as we
look at them. But aren't you glad that that was
included in Scripture? Okay, Kevin, go ahead, I interrupted you.
S2 (17:11):
Oh, no, I was just going to, uh, tie it
back to to what you were asking about, you know, people, uh,
stuffing things down so long that they don't even know
what's in there. And, and I think that is a
cultural thing either, you know, both in the church and
outside of it. Um, and, uh, so much of the
(17:34):
the answer to that is, um, not not just not
navel gazing, not leaning into yourself, but leaning into the
Lord and and who is who he has created us
to be and and leaning into community and and being
with others. And, um, you know, I, I think you
(17:55):
just said, you know, Jesus sometimes, um, he lived in
community and also got away sometimes to be with the
father and sometimes the community was a bit to its detriment.
And I was reminded of when he fed the 5000,
like he had just gotten the news that John the
Baptist had been beheaded. And and that meant not only
(18:17):
his cousin, but the friend of his disciples, um, had
been killed and and a really a leader in this
movement and just such an important and precious person. And
yet when he went to get away at the crowds
showed up for food, you know. And, um, and, well,
(18:38):
they showed up for a miracle, and and instead of
getting rid of them, he said, well, I think we
need to feed them. And, um, and even that man,
that's that is the hospitality of need. Because these people
were hungry and Jesus fed them and the disciples passed
(18:59):
out the food. They were part of providing for this need.
And through that, um, you know, they got to in
their one of their up to that point, their lowest moment, um,
they would have lower still when Jesus was crucified. But um,
but in one of their lowest moments, they served and,
(19:21):
and they saw his miracle of providing for others. And
that had to be a, a healing learning experience for
them in their time of grief, you know.
S1 (19:37):
Well. And that so we could take hospitality out of
the title and call it opportunity. The opportunity of need.
Because I don't think of hospitality and need going together
in some ways. But opportunity, if people saw their need
or the need of someone in their life as an opportunity,
(19:58):
it can turn things around. So, Tommy, tell me, when
did you meet Kevin and and tell me, uh, the
lifelong friendship.
S4 (20:07):
Mm. Well, Kevin, Kevin's a tiny bit younger than me,
but not by much. But when you're a child, it can,
you know, it can be a much. It seems like
a much bigger span. So I met Kevin, um, when
he was a kid. And, you know, I was a grown, mature,
you know, like 17 year old, um, knowing everything I remember.
I remember being 17 and knowing everything. I wish I
(20:27):
could give him a call. Um, but, uh, so here comes,
you know, Kevin, um, and the rest of his lovely family.
I had met his mother through an opportunity that we
were serving in together for a crisis pregnancy center. I
was a part of a a drama troupe that went
around to, um, public and, and private schools and youth
groups talking about purity and abstinence. And so Kevin was
(20:50):
in tow at a lot of those rehearsals and events
and everything. So I got to know him, um, you know,
as a, as a near peer. Uh, but then it
was later in life when a mutual friend, um, through
his band, just kind of reconnected us, um, very, very new.
And I was a newlywed dude. Um, and the strong
friendship really started building, um, from there from my early
(21:12):
20s on. Um, and Kevin friends. So good. If friending
is a verb, I don't know if it is. Um,
but he nearly insisted that we. He nearly insisted that
we stay close, and I couldn't be more thankful that
he did, because genuine friendship, kinship, brotherhood grew out of that. Um,
but but yeah, watching him first from a little bit
(21:35):
of a distance and now, um, very, very close, um,
in observation, how Kevin practices this by using needs as opportunities,
mostly for friendship is what I've seen. And I, I
was on the receiving end of a lot of it.
So yeah, it it has been really cool to see
the a core principle of the book, you know, get
lived out immediately in front of me in this friendship.
S1 (21:56):
Some of our listeners might know of the book that
was written about you, we carry Kevin, because you went
on this wild trip across the sea and you actually
had your friends carry you. Right, Kevin?
S2 (22:12):
Mhm. Yeah. In 2016, I, as I mentioned earlier on
in a power wheelchair and uh, that comes with a
lot of autonomy but also a lot of limitations. I
can go anywhere as long as there aren't steps And and, uh,
or bumpy, you know, fields and all that and, uh,
(22:34):
and yet my friends and I, uh, a couple of guys,
we wanted to go to Europe. And the things that
we wanted to do, uh, were not going to be
wheelchair accessible. So we left my wheelchair at home, and
they carried me in a backpack. As we danced in
the streets of Paris. We hiked the English countryside, hopped
(22:56):
over fences, and, um, ended up on an island off
the coast of Ireland called Skellig Michael, where there's an
ancient monastery that, uh, we wanted to see in person.
S1 (23:10):
And through all of that, you think that as you
look at this. Okay, there you are, totally dependent on them.
It is you and your need. And much like that
story a little earlier that I said in the book,
you you felt really bad that you needed help every day.
And you are going in the wheelchair into town a
(23:32):
couple of miles, I think it was. And then you
saw this place where you could, if you moved there, then, uh,
you wouldn't be such a burden. But your friend looked
at you, and my guess is they said this on
the on the trip as well. You are not a
burden to them. Talk about that.
S2 (23:51):
Mhm. Yeah. Um, well that that friend uh, was actually
on the trip to Europe and so, uh, you know,
not only had he expressed it with words, but uh,
he expressed it through his actions. Um, and I've said
before in conversations that the backpack that we used and
(24:14):
it's now available to families all over the world, we
have about 1500 families in 15, 50 countries that use
our backpack and get to explore the world together as
a family without having to leave one child behind while
they do something that's typically not wheelchair accessible. Um, but
(24:38):
I say that that the backpack is, uh, a way
of saying through action. I want you with me. And, uh,
and so that's what I got to experience with these guys.
And I get to experience it even now with, uh,
with my wife and with guys that come over in
the morning to get me up and ready for the day. Uh,
(25:00):
I got to experience it last week on On the
Road with Tommy and, um, and the friends that we
got to spend time with. Is this, uh, through their actions.
Through my actions, uh, we got to express, um, the
the love of God between us, and we got to, uh,
(25:22):
give a a picture to one another of the kingdom
of heaven. Um, that we are doing this together. It's
really beautiful.
S1 (25:31):
This is going to be really encouraging. And I'm going
to open the phone lines (877) 548-3675. Tommy Shelton and Kevin
Chandler have written the hospitality of need. How, depending on
one another, helps us heal and grow together. Have you
seen this at work in your own life? Let's talk
about it straight ahead. Have you seen this at work
(26:04):
in your own life? When the need you had actually
brought you together with others or their need fostered a
relationship that you wouldn't have if it hadn't been for
the need and the need seen or expressed and then met.
We're talking with Kevin Chandler and Tommy Shelton. The hospitality
(26:26):
of need is our featured resource. Chris Fabry lives depending
on one another, helps us heal and grow together. If
you have a story about that, if this is what
you have seen in your life, or if you have
a question or a comment, the number is (877) 548-3675. We'd
love to hear from you this afternoon. (877) 548-3675. I want
(26:51):
to go back. Kevin. To you and Katie. You. You've
been married for about five years now, and you've been
in that wheelchair for basically your whole life, right.
S2 (27:03):
Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. I was doing the math the other
day probably about 36 years.
S6 (27:08):
Six years. Okay. That's, that's.
S1 (27:10):
That's a long time.
S6 (27:11):
So how did you mean. Yes it is.
S1 (27:14):
How did you meet? How did you fall in love?
How did she, um, look at you? Not as someone
who's going to be needy the rest of their marriage,
but someone whom I want to love well and who
wants to love me? Well, uh, jump in there somewhere.
S2 (27:34):
Oh, man, I, I wish that she was here right now.
She could jump on and talk about this herself, but
she's out running some errands, so, um, but, yeah, I,
I mentioned before the break, I talked about how some
guys and I, some, some good friends, we, uh, went
to Europe and left my wheelchair at home, and they
(27:54):
carried me in this backpack all over Europe. And at
the end of that trip, we said, well, where what
do we do next? And, uh, the very long, uh,
wonderful story cut short is, uh, that two years later
we went to China. And, uh, part of that trip
(28:14):
was that we, uh, spent a week living at an
orphanage for, children with disabilities. And it was just an
amazing experience with those kiddos and with the staff and, um,
just getting to not just pop in for visits, but
actually live there on the grounds was was really powerful.
(28:38):
And Katie was working there at the time. She's from
Illinois and, uh, had been living there for a few years, uh,
working with the, the kids and the nannies that take
care of the kids specifically. And, uh, due to the
arrangements of the trip, she was kind of put in
(28:58):
charge of us, uh, to make sure we didn't get
in trouble. Uh, when we went out in public and everything.
You know, a group of guys, we're always looking for trouble.
And so, uh, she kind of wandered around the city
with us. She went on a few, uh, you know,
random trips around the countryside and then spent time with
(29:20):
us at the orphanage. And so that's when we met. And, um,
at the end of that week, when we got in
the van to leave, I turned to my friend Ben, um,
who was the one we were talking about earlier? Uh,
I turned to him and said, I have never met
anyone like her. And, uh, and he said, really? I said, yeah.
(29:45):
And then, because we were dumb dudes, uh, we we
just kind of shrugged and and moved on. But, uh,
what I realized later was that that was a seed
that that had started and was growing in me. And
so we stayed in touch as friends and, um, and
(30:05):
then a few months later, maybe, uh, 8 or 10
months later, I, uh, reached out to her on the
suggestion of a friend. Someone said you should ask her
out and and realized it was like something, uh, finally
blossomed in me of, oh, that's what I want. And
so I reached out and said, hey, next time we're
(30:27):
in the same country, could I take you out to dinner?
Because I'm in Indiana. She's in China. That's, you know,
it's not going to happen. You know, that weekend. And so, uh,
she wrote back that she would very much like to
do that. And I decided that meant I couldn't wait
until she came to the States, because I had no
(30:47):
idea when that was going to be. But it wasn't
going to be soon enough. So, uh, two months later, we, uh,
we met up in Sydney, Australia, for our first date. Um,
my dad and, uh, my friend Luke went with me and, um, for,
for two reasons, really. One was to help me with
my caregiving and and be able to make that trip, uh,
(31:12):
actually happen. Um, but then also just to keep everything
pure and above board, you know. And, um, so that
was just such a an awesome experience. And, uh, and then, yeah,
we so we had our first date, um, one year
after we met and then, uh, exactly a year later
(31:34):
in September of 2020, um, we got married here in
Fort Wayne. And, um, just the, the ways that that
the Lord showed up through all of that, especially, I mean,
you know, especially in 2020 when the world was shutting
down and kind of going crazy, um, these, these guys,
(31:55):
these friends, uh, stepped into not just my needs, but
my desires as well, and said, hey, we we want
you to be with this girl. We, you know, we're
we're as invested as you are. And so Katie and I, we,
we love the fact that our love story is not
just ours, but it's all of theirs, too. And, um.
(32:19):
And I'm honored that Tommy has been part of that. Um,
and he has traveled with us, and he was part
of a lot of phone calls with me before we
got married and just processing what was happening. And, um,
and just being a real support emotionally and then physically
(32:39):
in the past couple years of we'll go down and
visit his family and he'll help take care of me. Um, and, and,
you know, being on the road with this book, writing
it and now sharing it. Um, he's just really stepped
into that and some really great ways. And, um, and so, yeah,
(32:59):
I love that it's a community effort and a community
experience and.
S6 (33:05):
Therefore it sounds like a.
S2 (33:06):
Miracle. Yeah, we all celebrate.
S1 (33:09):
It sounds like.
S6 (33:10):
Though.
S1 (33:10):
That it's it's one sided that Tommy helps Kevin or
that Katie helps Kevin. And it does. Does everything. And
it's it's the the helper. The helper and the book.
The book that you've written shows that this is not
a one sided top down thing that's going on. There
(33:30):
is give and take from both sides. Tommy, talk about that.
S4 (33:35):
Well, I'm sure Kevin's probably, maybe a little bit tired
of me explaining it this way. Um, but I remember
when Kevin and I met with a, with our with
our eventual publisher, the development editor. Um, and she asked me, well, Tommy,
what books have you been reading lately? And I said, look,
I gotta lay this out there. You know, from the start,
I don't read very well. Is that is a reading
(33:59):
is is a reader of books a prerequisite prerequisite to
be an author of books? And we kind of laugh
and I'm like, no, I'm serious. I have very terrible
reading comprehension and I get very distracted. I have a
hard time reading. Kevin, of course, is laughing also because
through the whole writing of the book project, Kevin was
so amazingly patient with me in terms of just, um,
(34:20):
you know, getting chapters done. And I was wrestling with
a lot of like, adequacy, like, you know, do I
even have any reason to be a part of this project?
And he just kept encouraging me and encouraging me and
and waiting and waiting on me to, to finish my,
you know, portions. So it, it it it, you know,
it did cost something for Kevin to partner with me. Um, and,
(34:41):
and I think that. But I hope. Kevin, I don't
want to speak for you. I think it's been a blessing.
I know it's been a blessing for me, but in
in a lot of ways, I feel like Kevin carried
me through the process of writing the book, and I
was greatly blessed. But, you know, it's not just like
I got to, you know, sit in some comfy office
and just, you know, type words and submit them and, and,
(35:02):
you know, it's all cherry pies and, and, you know, rainbows. Uh,
you know, it was it was difficult in entering into
the the life and taking care of of Kevin when
I was able to be around. But I tell you
the the joy has been real and the blessing has
been real. But the effort I think on on every
(35:23):
party involved has been high. I mean, this, this, even
this project, this, this friendship, it's not it hasn't been free.
It's been costly. But I think that's just so weird.
We live in we're almost like, um, delusional because I
think we've internalized a thought that, like, in order for
me to be a blessing to somebody else, I can't
cost anything. Like, I like, I have to be easy,
(35:47):
and I have to be perfect, and I can't cost
anything to be a blessing. But that's totally opposite from
from reality, even even our experience of reality. Because in
in real life, the greatest blessings are on the other
side of some of the greatest efforts, like the things
that are the greatest. Blessings are things that really cost
a lot. Like in my 25 years of marriage, it's
(36:07):
been the greatest blessing, but also the greatest challenge. And
I think that's why it's the greatest blessing is because
it has been, um, costly. But even that cost, when
you know it's a blessing is not a burden. It's
just it's just a labor. But I mean, what do
they call labor of love? You look at childbirth and even,
you know, even Paul uses that as his go to
about these light and momentary afflictions like the like. It's
(36:31):
going to be difficult. But the reason, like my, my
poor wife, my blessed wife, she has six children. Like
she had five opportunities to to know how horrific childbirth is.
But yet we still had a sixth, you know, like
be because it's got to be because you just, you know,
the blessing that's on the other side of it. So
it's worth it. More than worth it.
S6 (36:50):
Well, and.
S1 (36:50):
I wonder if this is not also of with, with
our evangelism and our desire for other people to come
to know Jesus, that there feels like there is this,
you know, I've got this message and I know that
you need it. And so I'm going to give it
to you so that you can be, you know, fill
(37:10):
fill in the blanks right there. But there is something
that goes on in, in our hearts as well. There
is a a need and an opportunity there that in
sharing that whether no matter what the response is, there's
something on this side and an opportunity to extend that
grace and that mercy. I want to come back and
(37:31):
talk more about that. Tommy Shelton, Kevin Chandler have written
The Hospitality of Need how, depending on one another, helps
us heal and grow together. It's our featured resource at Chris.
Chris Fabry Live more with Tommy and Kevin straight ahead
on Moody Radio. We're going to talk about a number
(38:02):
of things this week that kind of dovetail with each
other on Wednesday. Uh, Tommy and Kevin are lifelong friends.
We're going to talk about friendship. It's International Friendship Day
on Wednesday. Tomorrow, Ray Pritchard is going to join us,
and we're going to talk about, you know, the floods
in Texas and the loss of life there. I got
an email from a fellow who said, I, I believe
(38:24):
in Jesus, but I'm really struggling with, you know, the
the little girls who cried out to God and God
wasn't there for them. How do I how do I
deal with that? So we're going to talk about that.
The sovereignty of God, the goodness of God. And then
the reality of what we see in front of us.
So hope you can join us for that conversation today.
(38:46):
It's the hospitality of need how, depending on one another,
helps us heal and grow together. This I guarantee you
this will fit in with your life, with your small group,
with your church as a whole. It's written by Kevin
Chandler and Tommy Shelton. Kevin, I mentioned just before the
break the idea of evangelism, And you said in the
(39:06):
break that there was a shift that you went under
you you saw in your own mind on that topic.
Tell me about that.
S2 (39:15):
Yeah. Um, so I this happened a few years ago and,
you know, I, I grew up in the church, and, um,
I've been walking with the Lord for a long time, and, um,
I have been to, you know, a lot of events and,
and had conversations myself with, uh, trying to lead people
(39:37):
to the Lord and, uh, a lot of prayer in
that direction as well. And, um, and a few years ago, um,
I was having dinner with a handful of people that, uh,
had become really precious to me, and they were not believers. And, uh,
(39:57):
I came away from that dinner, and, uh, I was
praying for them And the dinner was just a really
special time that we had together. And my prayer after
the dinner was, God, I can't imagine the wedding feast
of the lamb without them at the table. Would you
(40:20):
would you just pursue them? Would you stir in their
hearts to come to know you? Because I really want
to be sitting there with them. I want them to
be sitting there with me. And, um. And I just
felt this ache, this longing for them to be there.
And so it was such a shift in my in
(40:41):
my thinking, uh, going from, you know, you need to
be saved to actually more of an invitation. Uh, and
I think that we see that in some of our,
our favorite speakers and, you know, people like Johnny Erickson, Tada, and,
and others that, um, there's just such a joy in, like,
(41:02):
look at what the Lord's done in my life, and I.
I want you to have that as well. And I
know because I want to experience it with you. And
and we see that in first John. You know, he
says he starts the whole letter by saying, uh, what
what I experienced, what I saw, what I heard, what
(41:22):
I yeah, what I perceived and and everything, I want
to share it with you because it turned my life
upside down. And it's going to turn yours upside down too.
And and he says so that, um, you may have
fellowship with us. And indeed, our fellowship is with the
father and with his son, Jesus Christ. And so, um, yeah,
(41:44):
I think if our evangelism can, uh, our heart for
evangelism can shift into that of and that starts with, um,
with recognizing our need, doesn't it? It starts with recognizing
how desperately Really we need Jesus and what he has
done for us and then saying, wow, I see what
(42:07):
he's done for me. I want others to have that too,
because I want to be in it with them. I
want to sit at the table and celebrate with them.
S6 (42:16):
That's a great way to look at it.
S1 (42:18):
Tommy, respond to that.
S4 (42:20):
Sure. Um, I was just listening to an interview today,
and it was a believer talking about, um, a shift
that took place in his heart to where he was debating.
He was it was an open debate, and it was
a he was debating with someone that was rather aggressively, um,
atheist and even even mocking, um, devotion to, to Christ.
(42:41):
And instead of responding with facts, you know, um, which is,
which is a good idea, he just pivoted a little
bit and just said, can I ask you a question?
Do you have peace? Like, do you feel whole? Um,
and the guy said no, and he just let that
(43:04):
kind of hang in the air and said, I do.
I wish that you had the same. I know where
it comes from. It comes from Christ. It comes from
blowing your knee to him, which you might not understand,
but I, I want you to have the peace and
the joy that I have. And it's like you're not
compromising truth, and we shouldn't do that, you know? And
(43:27):
we shouldn't pretend that we live in a reality where
where sin and consequence and eternal separation is aren't realities. Um,
but just like our eternal life with Christ begins now.
It's not like that. We're just added to the list,
and then we enjoy it once we, you know, get
run over by a wheat combined or Jesus comes back.
It's like our eternal life, our full and abundant life
(43:49):
begins the moment, um, where our hearts are made new.
So why, you know, so it's okay to, like, include
in our gospel presentations. Just like a, like a plea, um,
for them to to to have what we have received. Um,
you know, not because I think people are tired of
being sold. Um, everything seems to be packaged and sold. Um,
(44:13):
so without compromising the truth, but just to to be present,
you know, and say, um, join me. Um, even, like,
let me carry this for you, um, as a way
of not just proclaiming Christ with your mouth, but but, um,
you know, living out that faith, embodying his his heart
(44:33):
and character through your own opportunities.
S6 (44:35):
So I think.
S1 (44:36):
This leaks in then with our, our, our relationship with God,
because I hear it very often, you know, like, I
can't imagine God forgiving me for this because I've asked
him so many times, and here I am again, and
I'm asking the same thing, and we project onto God
how we would feel if we were in that place
(44:57):
rather than seeing him and letting him be who he is,
and have grace and have mercy and welcoming us to
him with our need, with the sin that we have.
I mean, he paid for it. He paid the penalty
for it already for us. So why would we shrink
(45:19):
back from bringing that to him and allow him then
to meet that need and what it does? You know,
the angels that rejoice in heaven when a sinner repents? Um, well,
we'll end right there. I can't thank you both enough
for putting this together. For writing it together, for living it,
though you've lived it, and I could tell. And I
(45:40):
think other listeners can tell as well. So, uh, Kevin, Tommy,
thanks for sharing your heart and your story today.
S4 (45:47):
Thank you. Bless you.
S1 (45:49):
We've only scratched the surface, though. The title of the
book is The Hospitality of Need. How to, depending on
one another, helps us heal and grow together. This would
be a great series or a study that you could
do in a small group setting as well. If you
go to Chris Fabry Live, click through today's information. You'll
(46:12):
see more about Kevin Chandler. Keven, don't forget there's an
A there and Tommy Shelton the hospitality of need. And
come on back tomorrow. If you've had a struggle in
your own heart, your life with what happened in Texas
and why didn't God and why did this happen and
all of that. I hope tomorrow's conversation is going to
(46:35):
be a real help and give you a lot of hope.
Right here at the Radio Backyard Fence Chris Fabry Live
is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody
Bible Institute. Thanks a lot for listening.
Do you have a weakness in your life? You're hiding
from those around you. Is there some struggle you're going
through that you just kind of picked up and carried
because you don't want to bother other people with this?
Because if they knew it, they'd think less of you.
I have two guests today who want to encourage and
challenge you to let God use your weakness to prove
(00:26):
himself strong. They believe that burden you're carrying alone, or
that you're hiding because you're ashamed of it, might be
the very thing that will bring healing and growth not
only to you, but to those around you. Could that
be possible today on Chris Fabry live? Tommy and Kevin
join us. This might be the conversation that turns the
(00:48):
light on for you. I hope it is. Let's get going. First,
a thank you to our team. Ryan McConaughey doing all
things technical. Tricia is on a much needed vacation, and
Lisa is in the chair all this week. Thank you Lisa.
Rihanna will be answering your calls today and we are
down to the last four days of July. And I've
been telling you about Pastor Colin Smith's excellent book, Drive
Through the Bible. This is a game changer, especially if
(01:11):
you're in the group of people who say, I want
to read the Bible. I want to understand it, but
I just don't see how it all fits together. You see,
that weakness might be something that God can use to
help you understand. You'll discover in this book, drive through
the Bible how the Old Testament, the New Testament, the poetry,
the prophecy, how all of it points to Jesus. So
(01:31):
click through today. Request your copy of this 30 day journey.
The number is 8669538669532279. Give a gift of any size
or just go to npr.org. Scroll down. You'll see how
to support this program to receive that book by Colin Smith.
We are really close to reaching our goal for July,
(01:54):
so if you could help out today, that would be
really encouraging. Chris. Fabbri. Fabbri. Chris. Fabbri. Livorno. Thanks for
your support at the radio backyard fence. I don't know where.
Along the way, I internalized this message that if you're
a real Christian, if you are mature, you won't have struggles,
(02:15):
you won't have doubts, and that the goal of the
Christian life is to be strong, to have it all together.
Never let them see you sweat, right? Perhaps where I
first remembered the feeling was the year that my grandfather died.
He died on New Year's Eve, 1970. I was eight
years old, and I remember hearing two teachers talking in
(02:38):
the hallway, talking about me. Say I had big ears
and could hear these kinds of things from a distance.
Chris is doing so well with his grandfather's death, isn't he? Yeah. Yeah,
he sure is. And I interpreted that to mean, well,
Chris is not crying all the time, and he's doing
his homework, and he's, you know, he's being strong. So
(02:58):
the message I internalized was don't show emotion. Do your work.
Don't let anybody know what's going on inside. If you
have doubts, if you have fears, if you have struggles,
keep those to yourself. If you want to be a success.
You be strong. And I think that experience back there
in the third grade has followed. I'm not I'm not
(03:20):
blaming my teachers, but I, I think there was something
to that that I, that I then project that onto God.
I want to see what our guests have to say
about that, because I think they are going to gently
blow that idea out of the water. They have teamed
up to write what I think is an important book
for me, and maybe for you. The hospitality of need how,
(03:44):
depending on one another, helps us heal and grow together.
Kevin Chandler writes and speaks worldwide about friendship and disability.
He founded the nonprofit We Carry Kevin. Kevan. He and
his wife Katie have been married almost five years now
and they enjoy doing a lot of stuff together. Grow vegetables,
read to each other. Kevin, welcome to the program. How
(04:06):
are you doing today?
S2 (04:09):
Great. Thanks for having me. Chris.
S1 (04:11):
Along with Kevin is Tommy Shelton. He grew up as
a pastor's son in North Carolina, and he's now a
pastor himself in Florida at Live Oaks Bible Church in
Palm Harbor. He and his wife, Mara, have been married
25 years. Tomorrow, early happy anniversary. They have six children. Tommy,
welcome to the program.
S3 (04:31):
Thank you. Wonderful to be here.
S1 (04:33):
And the book again. The Hospitality of Need is our
featured resource. Just go to Chris Fabry Live.com. Kevin, you
first respond to what I just said about me in
the third grade.
S2 (04:44):
Oh, man. Um, I mean, I think that's the story
of a lot of us, um, the story of, uh,
living in a culture, especially in the church and especially
for men. Uh, this idea that, um, we should come
across like, we're we're doing fine or that when when
(05:05):
we're doing fine, that means that, uh, we're not we
haven't been emotionally affected. Um, that that's kind of the
healthy response. And and that's not the healthy response. And I, I, um,
I think something that we are also noticing in our
culture is and we see this not just in this conversation,
(05:28):
but in a lot of topics, the pendulum swing. Right. So, um,
we come from a culture and a generation where you
don't talk about your feelings. You may not even recognize
them yourself. Um, and, and so the image of strength is, uh,
(05:48):
you know, the silent generation and and not expressing Brushing
your needs. And then the pendulum swing right now is being,
I guess you could say like over emotional or or
creating needs or issues, you know, and, and the, the
conversation in, in our book in the Hospitality of Need
(06:11):
is that tightrope walk down the center, um, in between
those where your need um, as as we believe God
created it to be is not a burden. And it's
not an idol, but it's actually a tool, um, that
can open doors into deeper relationship, deeper fellowship and friendship
(06:35):
with others and ultimately point us and point others toward Christ. Yes.
S1 (06:42):
Okay. So that's really important. What what Kevin just said
your need as you listen to this today, whatever it is,
and you may have 100 or 1000 of them. But
just think about some need that you have right now
that you maybe have spiked or maybe you've leaned into,
and it is everything to you. That need is not
(07:04):
the burden that you have to bear alone, and not
bearing it alone means that you might experience more community
and more grace and more understanding. If you open that
gift for others to come alongside you. Uh, let me
go quickly to you, Tommy. How do you respond to
that third grade story and how does it fit into
(07:25):
your book? And now I'm not hearing Tommy. There he is. Okay.
I'm sorry.
S4 (07:33):
Go ahead. Yeah. The the idea of, um, of emotions being, uh, weaknesses.
It's just it's very foreign to me, uh, I even.
S5 (07:46):
Yeah. I think we're having problems with.
S1 (07:48):
We're having Tommy. We're having problems with your your connection
because I'm just getting a few of your words, so
let me.
S4 (07:53):
Well, let me reset it, and I'll be right back
with you.
S5 (07:56):
Okay. Yeah.
S1 (07:57):
Um, so if you go to the website. You'll see
the book, The Hospitality of Need. How, depending on one another,
helps us heal and grow together. Maybe this is just
the inability to continue with Tommy. Maybe that right there
is the perfect metaphor of what we're talking about. Well, okay.
(08:19):
Go ahead. Tommy, I'm hearing you chuckle.
S2 (08:22):
Oh, that was me. I was chuckling. Kevin.
S5 (08:24):
Oh.
S2 (08:26):
Sorry.
S5 (08:27):
Well you keep chuckling because I like to hear it.
S2 (08:30):
Well, well because it is it is a point that's
made in the book that um, you know, another aspect
of need is the inconvenience of it. And um, and
sometimes what we think is an inconvenience is actually a grace,
you know, and, um, we're talking about emotions right now
(08:50):
in this particular conversation. Um, but a lot of the, um,
the undertaking of the book came from my experience with
physical needs. I'm in a wheelchair. I require a lot
of help. Um, right before we got on here, I
ran out and asked my wife to, you know, address
(09:10):
my foot in my wheelchair. And, um, I'm just not.
An hour goes by in my life where I don't
depend on other people, and I could be bitter about that.
Or I could be, um, an obsessive about that. You know,
on either end. Um, but instead, uh, I've chosen to
(09:32):
see this as a chance to, um, be closer to
my wife, to be closer to my friends. Um, because I,
I require their help and their attention, and, um. And
that's not just me. You know, it's not me being awesome,
I can tell you that for sure. Um, but it's
(09:52):
it's the Holy Spirit working. Um, and it's also these friends,
you know, my wife, my family, my friends from over
the years. Um, because they make it easy, they make
it possible to invite them in.
S5 (10:09):
Um, there's.
S1 (10:09):
One chapter where you talked about that, that you felt
like a burden, and you. All of these people were
coming alongside you to help you, and you had figured
out a way for you not to be as big
a burden to them. And one of your friends kind
of look at you, the corner of his eye and thought,
where are you getting this thing that you're a burden
(10:30):
to us? I want you to talk about that. And
we're going to talk more with Tommy when we come back.
This Chris Fabry live on Moody Radio. This is a really, really,
I think, important book that is going to help the church.
It's going to help you and me the Hospitality of need.
It's our featured resource. Click through today's information right there.
Chris Fabry live. Chris Fabry live. Tommy Shelton and Kevin
(11:06):
Chandler have teamed up to write The Hospitality of Need.
How deep? Depending on one another helps us heal and
grow together. Do you look at your need, whatever that
is in your life as something? I can't tell this
to anybody or on the other side. It's all that
you have. It defines you. Tommy and Kevin want to
(11:30):
help you navigate that, to walk that kind of tightrope
so that God can meet you and meet your needs
as well as those around you. So let me go
back to you, Tommy. Go to Chris. Aug. We have
the hospitality of need right there. Chris. Fabri. Tommy, respond
to my third grade story and what you want to say.
S4 (11:52):
Well, wonderful. Thank you. I'm tempted to cry over spilled Wi-Fi,
but I'm not going to because only weak people cry. No, um.
I have to confess that it is very much a
foreign idea to me that somehow, uh, emotions, you know,
are are synonymous with weakness. It's not. It's not what
I saw, um, in my own family, specifically with my
(12:14):
father and I. And I've been thinking about this, especially
in the in the break while I was sorting out
the tech side of things. I think maybe what it
was is that my dad would often, while preaching, he
would cry, um, you know, he would he would express
his emotions openly and freely, but he also still was
able to do so many amazing things in the midst
(12:36):
of it. He still preached the sermon. He didn't have to,
you know, stop or or or, you know, um, or
forgive me and like, leave the sanctuary until he got
himself together. He. He would preach through it or you know.
And so the image that I got in my head,
even when I first heard you ask a question, I
thought about a dude repairing a hole in the roof, like,
while crying. I think if you're still able to do what,
(12:59):
what needs to be done, I think that only adds
like richness to the expression of it. Um, you know, um,
my whole family is a bit of a leaky bunch.
We can't tell a heartfelt story without, you know, getting
watery eyed. And to this day, uh, I probably only
get through about a third of my sermons without having
to pull a, you know, a Kleenex out. Um, so
(13:20):
it is like that idea of of emotions being, um,
a weakness, um, is a little foreign, but I think
we could all agree that watching just someone in a,
you know, in a, in a cage of emotion and
be completely incapacitated by it, um, I feel great compassion,
but it's almost like it's okay to feel. Um, but
(13:42):
press through it with my kids. Um, and some of
this comes from an awesome school that we have. And,
of course, um, you know, just trying to live our
lives according to Scripture. Um, we will say and tell them,
you know, that courage is not a lack of fear.
Courage is facing fears bravely. So you might feel dreadfully
afraid of what you're doing. But real courage is pressing through,
(14:04):
you know, um, even though you feel, you know, great fear.
S5 (14:08):
So, you know, the other side.
S1 (14:10):
Of that is the Psalms. You cannot read the Psalms,
you know, think about the Psalm 22 and and Jesus
calling this out from the cross. This was the real
guttural feel of the person who feels the way that
he felt. So those those feelings, as I read the
Psalms is like, give me a freedom to feel. But that, uh,
(14:33):
you said something else, Kevin, a little earlier, that sometimes
if you stunt your feelings and you push them down
and want to be strong. You don't even know what
you need. You don't even know what you want in
your life because you've pushed it down for so long, right?
S2 (14:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, I'd love to hear
from Tommy about, um, we just got off of a
book tour. That was really fun. This past week, we
got to go around a few states and, uh, share
about the book and have some speaking events. And in that, um, Tommy,
you mentioned, uh, at one of the events about independence
(15:11):
and how, uh, you know, most sermons today are, uh,
in disguise about about independence. Could could you share a
bit about that?
S4 (15:25):
Surely, you know, so as a preacher and I was
raised by a preacher. So I've been around preaching, you know,
my entire life. Um, and it it seems to me
now I love the bride of Christ. I'm a churchman.
I love the church. And I'm always very careful with
my critiques of the church. Um, because, you know, I,
I can't claim to love somebody, but but say like, oh,
but man, your wife is terrible. So I love the
(15:47):
Lord Jesus, so I need to love his bride as well.
But when I look around and and hear from the pulpits, um,
of so many churches, what I hear is a gospel
of like self improvement and betterment and even. But and
that's not even the core of the problem. The core is,
I think how we define improvement and betterment seems to
(16:07):
be more and more and more capability, which means needing
other people less and less and less. Here's how you
can not need anyone. And I find that to be
completely antithetical to even how Jesus lived his life. And
that's some of the challenging but fun things of the
book that that we wrote together is, is seeing Jesus, um,
(16:29):
having vulnerabilities and having needs and how he responded to
those his physical needs. He didn't lack anything. He was
infinite God in flesh, but in his um. Experience as flesh. He,
you know, he got tired and he got thirsty. And
how did he do? He, you know, um, he didn't
remove himself. He he did. For some quiet time with
(16:50):
his father and to pray. But he engaged with other.
People to see those needs met, to get those needs met.
S1 (16:57):
To the detriment of himself in a lot of ways, too,
because the disciples that he wanted to follow him, you know,
were were so clueless at times, at least as we
look at them. But aren't you glad that that was
included in Scripture? Okay, Kevin, go ahead, I interrupted you.
S2 (17:11):
Oh, no, I was just going to, uh, tie it
back to to what you were asking about, you know, people, uh,
stuffing things down so long that they don't even know
what's in there. And, and I think that is a
cultural thing either, you know, both in the church and
outside of it. Um, and, uh, so much of the
(17:34):
the answer to that is, um, not not just not
navel gazing, not leaning into yourself, but leaning into the
Lord and and who is who he has created us
to be and and leaning into community and and being
with others. And, um, you know, I, I think you
(17:55):
just said, you know, Jesus sometimes, um, he lived in
community and also got away sometimes to be with the
father and sometimes the community was a bit to its detriment.
And I was reminded of when he fed the 5000,
like he had just gotten the news that John the
Baptist had been beheaded. And and that meant not only
(18:17):
his cousin, but the friend of his disciples, um, had
been killed and and a really a leader in this
movement and just such an important and precious person. And
yet when he went to get away at the crowds
showed up for food, you know. And, um, and, well,
(18:38):
they showed up for a miracle, and and instead of
getting rid of them, he said, well, I think we
need to feed them. And, um, and even that man,
that's that is the hospitality of need. Because these people
were hungry and Jesus fed them and the disciples passed
(18:59):
out the food. They were part of providing for this need.
And through that, um, you know, they got to in
their one of their up to that point, their lowest moment, um,
they would have lower still when Jesus was crucified. But um,
but in one of their lowest moments, they served and,
(19:21):
and they saw his miracle of providing for others. And
that had to be a, a healing learning experience for
them in their time of grief, you know.
S1 (19:37):
Well. And that so we could take hospitality out of
the title and call it opportunity. The opportunity of need.
Because I don't think of hospitality and need going together
in some ways. But opportunity, if people saw their need
or the need of someone in their life as an opportunity,
(19:58):
it can turn things around. So, Tommy, tell me, when
did you meet Kevin and and tell me, uh, the
lifelong friendship.
S4 (20:07):
Mm. Well, Kevin, Kevin's a tiny bit younger than me,
but not by much. But when you're a child, it can,
you know, it can be a much. It seems like
a much bigger span. So I met Kevin, um, when
he was a kid. And, you know, I was a grown, mature,
you know, like 17 year old, um, knowing everything I remember.
I remember being 17 and knowing everything. I wish I
(20:27):
could give him a call. Um, but, uh, so here comes,
you know, Kevin, um, and the rest of his lovely family.
I had met his mother through an opportunity that we
were serving in together for a crisis pregnancy center. I
was a part of a a drama troupe that went
around to, um, public and, and private schools and youth
groups talking about purity and abstinence. And so Kevin was
(20:50):
in tow at a lot of those rehearsals and events
and everything. So I got to know him, um, you know,
as a, as a near peer. Uh, but then it
was later in life when a mutual friend, um, through
his band, just kind of reconnected us, um, very, very new.
And I was a newlywed dude. Um, and the strong
friendship really started building, um, from there from my early
(21:12):
20s on. Um, and Kevin friends. So good. If friending
is a verb, I don't know if it is. Um,
but he nearly insisted that we. He nearly insisted that
we stay close, and I couldn't be more thankful that
he did, because genuine friendship, kinship, brotherhood grew out of that. Um,
but but yeah, watching him first from a little bit
(21:35):
of a distance and now, um, very, very close, um,
in observation, how Kevin practices this by using needs as opportunities,
mostly for friendship is what I've seen. And I, I
was on the receiving end of a lot of it.
So yeah, it it has been really cool to see
the a core principle of the book, you know, get
lived out immediately in front of me in this friendship.
S1 (21:56):
Some of our listeners might know of the book that
was written about you, we carry Kevin, because you went
on this wild trip across the sea and you actually
had your friends carry you. Right, Kevin?
S2 (22:12):
Mhm. Yeah. In 2016, I, as I mentioned earlier on
in a power wheelchair and uh, that comes with a
lot of autonomy but also a lot of limitations. I
can go anywhere as long as there aren't steps And and, uh,
or bumpy, you know, fields and all that and, uh,
(22:34):
and yet my friends and I, uh, a couple of guys,
we wanted to go to Europe. And the things that
we wanted to do, uh, were not going to be
wheelchair accessible. So we left my wheelchair at home, and
they carried me in a backpack. As we danced in
the streets of Paris. We hiked the English countryside, hopped
(22:56):
over fences, and, um, ended up on an island off
the coast of Ireland called Skellig Michael, where there's an
ancient monastery that, uh, we wanted to see in person.
S1 (23:10):
And through all of that, you think that as you
look at this. Okay, there you are, totally dependent on them.
It is you and your need. And much like that
story a little earlier that I said in the book,
you you felt really bad that you needed help every day.
And you are going in the wheelchair into town a
(23:32):
couple of miles, I think it was. And then you
saw this place where you could, if you moved there, then, uh,
you wouldn't be such a burden. But your friend looked
at you, and my guess is they said this on
the on the trip as well. You are not a
burden to them. Talk about that.
S2 (23:51):
Mhm. Yeah. Um, well that that friend uh, was actually
on the trip to Europe and so, uh, you know,
not only had he expressed it with words, but uh,
he expressed it through his actions. Um, and I've said
before in conversations that the backpack that we used and
(24:14):
it's now available to families all over the world, we
have about 1500 families in 15, 50 countries that use
our backpack and get to explore the world together as
a family without having to leave one child behind while
they do something that's typically not wheelchair accessible. Um, but
(24:38):
I say that that the backpack is, uh, a way
of saying through action. I want you with me. And, uh,
and so that's what I got to experience with these guys.
And I get to experience it even now with, uh,
with my wife and with guys that come over in
the morning to get me up and ready for the day. Uh,
(25:00):
I got to experience it last week on On the
Road with Tommy and, um, and the friends that we
got to spend time with. Is this, uh, through their actions.
Through my actions, uh, we got to express, um, the
the love of God between us, and we got to, uh,
(25:22):
give a a picture to one another of the kingdom
of heaven. Um, that we are doing this together. It's
really beautiful.
S1 (25:31):
This is going to be really encouraging. And I'm going
to open the phone lines (877) 548-3675. Tommy Shelton and Kevin
Chandler have written the hospitality of need. How, depending on
one another, helps us heal and grow together. Have you
seen this at work in your own life? Let's talk
about it straight ahead. Have you seen this at work
(26:04):
in your own life? When the need you had actually
brought you together with others or their need fostered a
relationship that you wouldn't have if it hadn't been for
the need and the need seen or expressed and then met.
We're talking with Kevin Chandler and Tommy Shelton. The hospitality
(26:26):
of need is our featured resource. Chris Fabry lives depending
on one another, helps us heal and grow together. If
you have a story about that, if this is what
you have seen in your life, or if you have
a question or a comment, the number is (877) 548-3675. We'd
love to hear from you this afternoon. (877) 548-3675. I want
(26:51):
to go back. Kevin. To you and Katie. You. You've
been married for about five years now, and you've been
in that wheelchair for basically your whole life, right.
S2 (27:03):
Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. I was doing the math the other
day probably about 36 years.
S6 (27:08):
Six years. Okay. That's, that's.
S1 (27:10):
That's a long time.
S6 (27:11):
So how did you mean. Yes it is.
S1 (27:14):
How did you meet? How did you fall in love?
How did she, um, look at you? Not as someone
who's going to be needy the rest of their marriage,
but someone whom I want to love well and who
wants to love me? Well, uh, jump in there somewhere.
S2 (27:34):
Oh, man, I, I wish that she was here right now.
She could jump on and talk about this herself, but
she's out running some errands, so, um, but, yeah, I,
I mentioned before the break, I talked about how some
guys and I, some, some good friends, we, uh, went
to Europe and left my wheelchair at home, and they
(27:54):
carried me in this backpack all over Europe. And at
the end of that trip, we said, well, where what
do we do next? And, uh, the very long, uh,
wonderful story cut short is, uh, that two years later
we went to China. And, uh, part of that trip
(28:14):
was that we, uh, spent a week living at an
orphanage for, children with disabilities. And it was just an
amazing experience with those kiddos and with the staff and, um,
just getting to not just pop in for visits, but
actually live there on the grounds was was really powerful.
(28:38):
And Katie was working there at the time. She's from
Illinois and, uh, had been living there for a few years, uh,
working with the, the kids and the nannies that take
care of the kids specifically. And, uh, due to the
arrangements of the trip, she was kind of put in
(28:58):
charge of us, uh, to make sure we didn't get
in trouble. Uh, when we went out in public and everything.
You know, a group of guys, we're always looking for trouble.
And so, uh, she kind of wandered around the city
with us. She went on a few, uh, you know,
random trips around the countryside and then spent time with
(29:20):
us at the orphanage. And so that's when we met. And, um,
at the end of that week, when we got in
the van to leave, I turned to my friend Ben, um,
who was the one we were talking about earlier? Uh,
I turned to him and said, I have never met
anyone like her. And, uh, and he said, really? I said, yeah.
(29:45):
And then, because we were dumb dudes, uh, we we
just kind of shrugged and and moved on. But, uh,
what I realized later was that that was a seed
that that had started and was growing in me. And
so we stayed in touch as friends and, um, and
(30:05):
then a few months later, maybe, uh, 8 or 10
months later, I, uh, reached out to her on the
suggestion of a friend. Someone said you should ask her
out and and realized it was like something, uh, finally
blossomed in me of, oh, that's what I want. And
so I reached out and said, hey, next time we're
(30:27):
in the same country, could I take you out to dinner?
Because I'm in Indiana. She's in China. That's, you know,
it's not going to happen. You know, that weekend. And so, uh,
she wrote back that she would very much like to
do that. And I decided that meant I couldn't wait
until she came to the States, because I had no
(30:47):
idea when that was going to be. But it wasn't
going to be soon enough. So, uh, two months later, we, uh,
we met up in Sydney, Australia, for our first date. Um,
my dad and, uh, my friend Luke went with me and, um, for,
for two reasons, really. One was to help me with
my caregiving and and be able to make that trip, uh,
(31:12):
actually happen. Um, but then also just to keep everything
pure and above board, you know. And, um, so that
was just such a an awesome experience. And, uh, and then, yeah,
we so we had our first date, um, one year
after we met and then, uh, exactly a year later
(31:34):
in September of 2020, um, we got married here in
Fort Wayne. And, um, just the, the ways that that
the Lord showed up through all of that, especially, I mean,
you know, especially in 2020 when the world was shutting
down and kind of going crazy, um, these, these guys,
(31:55):
these friends, uh, stepped into not just my needs, but
my desires as well, and said, hey, we we want
you to be with this girl. We, you know, we're
we're as invested as you are. And so Katie and I, we,
we love the fact that our love story is not
just ours, but it's all of theirs, too. And, um.
(32:19):
And I'm honored that Tommy has been part of that. Um,
and he has traveled with us, and he was part
of a lot of phone calls with me before we
got married and just processing what was happening. And, um,
and just being a real support emotionally and then physically
(32:39):
in the past couple years of we'll go down and
visit his family and he'll help take care of me. Um, and, and,
you know, being on the road with this book, writing
it and now sharing it. Um, he's just really stepped
into that and some really great ways. And, um, and so, yeah,
(32:59):
I love that it's a community effort and a community
experience and.
S6 (33:05):
Therefore it sounds like a.
S2 (33:06):
Miracle. Yeah, we all celebrate.
S1 (33:09):
It sounds like.
S6 (33:10):
Though.
S1 (33:10):
That it's it's one sided that Tommy helps Kevin or
that Katie helps Kevin. And it does. Does everything. And
it's it's the the helper. The helper and the book.
The book that you've written shows that this is not
a one sided top down thing that's going on. There
(33:30):
is give and take from both sides. Tommy, talk about that.
S4 (33:35):
Well, I'm sure Kevin's probably, maybe a little bit tired
of me explaining it this way. Um, but I remember
when Kevin and I met with a, with our with
our eventual publisher, the development editor. Um, and she asked me, well, Tommy,
what books have you been reading lately? And I said, look,
I gotta lay this out there. You know, from the start,
I don't read very well. Is that is a reading
(33:59):
is is a reader of books a prerequisite prerequisite to
be an author of books? And we kind of laugh
and I'm like, no, I'm serious. I have very terrible
reading comprehension and I get very distracted. I have a
hard time reading. Kevin, of course, is laughing also because
through the whole writing of the book project, Kevin was
so amazingly patient with me in terms of just, um,
(34:20):
you know, getting chapters done. And I was wrestling with
a lot of like, adequacy, like, you know, do I
even have any reason to be a part of this project?
And he just kept encouraging me and encouraging me and
and waiting and waiting on me to, to finish my,
you know, portions. So it, it it it, you know,
it did cost something for Kevin to partner with me. Um, and,
(34:41):
and I think that. But I hope. Kevin, I don't
want to speak for you. I think it's been a blessing.
I know it's been a blessing for me, but in
in a lot of ways, I feel like Kevin carried
me through the process of writing the book, and I
was greatly blessed. But, you know, it's not just like
I got to, you know, sit in some comfy office
and just, you know, type words and submit them and, and,
(35:02):
you know, it's all cherry pies and, and, you know, rainbows. Uh,
you know, it was it was difficult in entering into
the the life and taking care of of Kevin when
I was able to be around. But I tell you
the the joy has been real and the blessing has
been real. But the effort I think on on every
(35:23):
party involved has been high. I mean, this, this, even
this project, this, this friendship, it's not it hasn't been free.
It's been costly. But I think that's just so weird.
We live in we're almost like, um, delusional because I
think we've internalized a thought that, like, in order for
me to be a blessing to somebody else, I can't
cost anything. Like, I like, I have to be easy,
(35:47):
and I have to be perfect, and I can't cost
anything to be a blessing. But that's totally opposite from
from reality, even even our experience of reality. Because in
in real life, the greatest blessings are on the other
side of some of the greatest efforts, like the things
that are the greatest. Blessings are things that really cost
a lot. Like in my 25 years of marriage, it's
(36:07):
been the greatest blessing, but also the greatest challenge. And
I think that's why it's the greatest blessing is because
it has been, um, costly. But even that cost, when
you know it's a blessing is not a burden. It's
just it's just a labor. But I mean, what do
they call labor of love? You look at childbirth and even,
you know, even Paul uses that as his go to
about these light and momentary afflictions like the like. It's
(36:31):
going to be difficult. But the reason, like my, my
poor wife, my blessed wife, she has six children. Like
she had five opportunities to to know how horrific childbirth is.
But yet we still had a sixth, you know, like
be because it's got to be because you just, you know,
the blessing that's on the other side of it. So
it's worth it. More than worth it.
S6 (36:50):
Well, and.
S1 (36:50):
I wonder if this is not also of with, with
our evangelism and our desire for other people to come
to know Jesus, that there feels like there is this,
you know, I've got this message and I know that
you need it. And so I'm going to give it
to you so that you can be, you know, fill
(37:10):
fill in the blanks right there. But there is something
that goes on in, in our hearts as well. There
is a a need and an opportunity there that in
sharing that whether no matter what the response is, there's
something on this side and an opportunity to extend that
grace and that mercy. I want to come back and
(37:31):
talk more about that. Tommy Shelton, Kevin Chandler have written
The Hospitality of Need how, depending on one another, helps
us heal and grow together. It's our featured resource at Chris.
Chris Fabry Live more with Tommy and Kevin straight ahead
on Moody Radio. We're going to talk about a number
(38:02):
of things this week that kind of dovetail with each
other on Wednesday. Uh, Tommy and Kevin are lifelong friends.
We're going to talk about friendship. It's International Friendship Day
on Wednesday. Tomorrow, Ray Pritchard is going to join us,
and we're going to talk about, you know, the floods
in Texas and the loss of life there. I got
an email from a fellow who said, I, I believe
(38:24):
in Jesus, but I'm really struggling with, you know, the
the little girls who cried out to God and God
wasn't there for them. How do I how do I
deal with that? So we're going to talk about that.
The sovereignty of God, the goodness of God. And then
the reality of what we see in front of us.
So hope you can join us for that conversation today.
(38:46):
It's the hospitality of need how, depending on one another,
helps us heal and grow together. This I guarantee you
this will fit in with your life, with your small group,
with your church as a whole. It's written by Kevin
Chandler and Tommy Shelton. Kevin, I mentioned just before the
break the idea of evangelism, And you said in the
(39:06):
break that there was a shift that you went under
you you saw in your own mind on that topic.
Tell me about that.
S2 (39:15):
Yeah. Um, so I this happened a few years ago and,
you know, I, I grew up in the church, and, um,
I've been walking with the Lord for a long time, and, um,
I have been to, you know, a lot of events and,
and had conversations myself with, uh, trying to lead people
(39:37):
to the Lord and, uh, a lot of prayer in
that direction as well. And, um, and a few years ago, um,
I was having dinner with a handful of people that, uh,
had become really precious to me, and they were not believers. And, uh,
(39:57):
I came away from that dinner, and, uh, I was
praying for them And the dinner was just a really
special time that we had together. And my prayer after
the dinner was, God, I can't imagine the wedding feast
of the lamb without them at the table. Would you
(40:20):
would you just pursue them? Would you stir in their
hearts to come to know you? Because I really want
to be sitting there with them. I want them to
be sitting there with me. And, um. And I just
felt this ache, this longing for them to be there.
And so it was such a shift in my in
(40:41):
my thinking, uh, going from, you know, you need to
be saved to actually more of an invitation. Uh, and
I think that we see that in some of our,
our favorite speakers and, you know, people like Johnny Erickson, Tada, and,
and others that, um, there's just such a joy in, like,
(41:02):
look at what the Lord's done in my life, and I.
I want you to have that as well. And I
know because I want to experience it with you. And
and we see that in first John. You know, he
says he starts the whole letter by saying, uh, what
what I experienced, what I saw, what I heard, what
(41:22):
I yeah, what I perceived and and everything, I want
to share it with you because it turned my life
upside down. And it's going to turn yours upside down too.
And and he says so that, um, you may have
fellowship with us. And indeed, our fellowship is with the
father and with his son, Jesus Christ. And so, um, yeah,
(41:44):
I think if our evangelism can, uh, our heart for
evangelism can shift into that of and that starts with, um,
with recognizing our need, doesn't it? It starts with recognizing
how desperately Really we need Jesus and what he has
done for us and then saying, wow, I see what
(42:07):
he's done for me. I want others to have that too,
because I want to be in it with them. I
want to sit at the table and celebrate with them.
S6 (42:16):
That's a great way to look at it.
S1 (42:18):
Tommy, respond to that.
S4 (42:20):
Sure. Um, I was just listening to an interview today,
and it was a believer talking about, um, a shift
that took place in his heart to where he was debating.
He was it was an open debate, and it was
a he was debating with someone that was rather aggressively, um,
atheist and even even mocking, um, devotion to, to Christ.
(42:41):
And instead of responding with facts, you know, um, which is,
which is a good idea, he just pivoted a little
bit and just said, can I ask you a question?
Do you have peace? Like, do you feel whole? Um,
and the guy said no, and he just let that
(43:04):
kind of hang in the air and said, I do.
I wish that you had the same. I know where
it comes from. It comes from Christ. It comes from
blowing your knee to him, which you might not understand,
but I, I want you to have the peace and
the joy that I have. And it's like you're not
compromising truth, and we shouldn't do that, you know? And
(43:27):
we shouldn't pretend that we live in a reality where
where sin and consequence and eternal separation is aren't realities. Um,
but just like our eternal life with Christ begins now.
It's not like that. We're just added to the list,
and then we enjoy it once we, you know, get
run over by a wheat combined or Jesus comes back.
It's like our eternal life, our full and abundant life
(43:49):
begins the moment, um, where our hearts are made new.
So why, you know, so it's okay to, like, include
in our gospel presentations. Just like a, like a plea, um,
for them to to to have what we have received. Um,
you know, not because I think people are tired of
being sold. Um, everything seems to be packaged and sold. Um,
(44:13):
so without compromising the truth, but just to to be present,
you know, and say, um, join me. Um, even, like,
let me carry this for you, um, as a way
of not just proclaiming Christ with your mouth, but but, um,
you know, living out that faith, embodying his his heart
(44:33):
and character through your own opportunities.
S6 (44:35):
So I think.
S1 (44:36):
This leaks in then with our, our, our relationship with God,
because I hear it very often, you know, like, I
can't imagine God forgiving me for this because I've asked
him so many times, and here I am again, and
I'm asking the same thing, and we project onto God
how we would feel if we were in that place
(44:57):
rather than seeing him and letting him be who he is,
and have grace and have mercy and welcoming us to
him with our need, with the sin that we have.
I mean, he paid for it. He paid the penalty
for it already for us. So why would we shrink
(45:19):
back from bringing that to him and allow him then
to meet that need and what it does? You know,
the angels that rejoice in heaven when a sinner repents? Um, well,
we'll end right there. I can't thank you both enough
for putting this together. For writing it together, for living it,
though you've lived it, and I could tell. And I
(45:40):
think other listeners can tell as well. So, uh, Kevin, Tommy,
thanks for sharing your heart and your story today.
S4 (45:47):
Thank you. Bless you.
S1 (45:49):
We've only scratched the surface, though. The title of the
book is The Hospitality of Need. How to, depending on
one another, helps us heal and grow together. This would
be a great series or a study that you could
do in a small group setting as well. If you
go to Chris Fabry Live, click through today's information. You'll
(46:12):
see more about Kevin Chandler. Keven, don't forget there's an
A there and Tommy Shelton the hospitality of need. And
come on back tomorrow. If you've had a struggle in
your own heart, your life with what happened in Texas
and why didn't God and why did this happen and
all of that. I hope tomorrow's conversation is going to
(46:35):
be a real help and give you a lot of hope.
Right here at the Radio Backyard Fence Chris Fabry Live
is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody
Bible Institute. Thanks a lot for listening.
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