August 6, 2025 • 46 mins
When you or someone you love has ADHD, you realize that everyone in the family is affected by that diagnosis. Dr. Tamara Rosier believes you don't cure or solve ADHD, but you can live well with it. She's written a guidebook that includes practical steps for the whole family that has been impacted by ADHD. Don't miss the encouragement on a "Best of Chris Fabry Live."
Resource mentioned:
You, Me, and Our ADHD Family by Tamara Rosier
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:05):
Today at the radio backyard fence. You have ADHD or
someone in your family is dealing with that diagnosis. The
person with ADHD is not the only one affected. It
impacts everybody in the family, everybody in the classroom, everybody
on the team, in the workplace. You might be dealing
with impulsiveness, emotional turbulence or poor organizational skills. Whatever your situation,
(00:33):
there are factors that contribute to making your relationships complicated, stressful,
and downright difficult. How do you deal with that? How
do you avoid the conflict that can come? Our guest
today says your family is not doomed to constant miscommunication
and stress. You can overcome these obstacles, but if your
(00:56):
family is in turmoil, you have to find and use
a different strategy than the one you're using right now.
She really believes you don't cure or solve ADHD, but
you can live well with it. And that's what we're
going to talk about. Straight ahead on the best of
Chris Fabry Live. I hope this is one of those
programs where you look at the radio and you say,
(01:18):
how did you know we were going through this? Maybe
that's you or someone you know. Let's get started. First
with a big thank you to our team. Ryan McConaughey's
doing all things technical. Tricia is our producer. No one's
answering your calls today because our program is recorded. You
can hear dated information because this conversation happened two days
(01:38):
before Thanksgiving of 2024. So be aware of that. You're
going to you're going to hear some dated information. Also
be aware we need your support here at the Radio
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(02:02):
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We put it together and he gives you even more
(02:23):
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(02:46):
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Fabbri is our number. Or go to Chris Fabbri for
(03:07):
your monthly gift. Makes a big difference to us and
the lives touched by this daily conversation. (866) 953-2279 or go
to Chris Fabbri and thanks for your support at the
radio backyard fence. Her name is Doctor Tamara Rozier. She's
(03:30):
a PhD. She's been a college administrator, professor, a leadership consultant,
high school teacher, business owner, and an ADHD coach. As
founder of the ADHD Center of West Michigan, Doctor Rozier
lends a or leads a team of coaches, therapists and
speech pathologists to help individuals, parents and families develop an
(03:52):
understanding of ADHD and learn skills to live with it effectively.
And I think that's the that's the key right there.
She's the author of Your Brain Is Not Broken and
her featured resource today is you, me and our ADHD
family doctor Rozier. How you doing today?
S2 (04:11):
Oh I am so happy to be talking with you today.
Thanks for having me.
S1 (04:15):
There is an axiom that I found for people who
bring hope and healing to others, and it's this the
wound that you have. The struggle of your life can
be used to propel you and propel others toward wholeness.
And it sounds like that is true in your life.
S2 (04:33):
Wow. Way to start out deep. That is exactly true. Uh, yeah. Uh,
my family of origin wasn't a great experience. But you
know what? I've learned to be grateful for that. Um,
I believe they taught me things through through wounds. And
(04:54):
I know that not all of your listeners are there yet,
but I am incredibly grateful for what I experienced because
it allowed me to have insight into what my clients
and readers experience.
S1 (05:08):
Yes, so is is ADHD. Uh, is it hereditary? Something
you pass down? Is it something that you catch by
osmosis then, or you know, the is it the incubator
or what is it?
S2 (05:22):
Yeah, it's it's highly hereditary. So if you have a
parent with ADHD, their likelihood of having offspring with ADHD
is incredibly high. Now, exactly how high? We're still discussing it,
but I'm seeing 0.6 likelihood, which would be a 60% chance. Um,
(05:44):
one researcher says, oh, no, it's more like 80% chance. Well,
no matter what the numbers are, we have to pay
attention to this because it's highly hereditary.
S1 (05:55):
Your mom and you are very careful of saying, you know,
you're very grateful for your family and everybody that's in
your family and your kids and your husband and everybody.
But what you experienced with your mother, at one point,
you saw yourself. She couldn't manage those who were depending
on her. And you saw yourself struggling the same thing
(06:18):
when you had children, right?
S2 (06:21):
Oh, yeah, I had to do I had to dig
deep to write the second book. The first book was
kind of like, hey, folks, your brain's not broken. There's
so much hope. Good on you. The second book was.
All right, Tamara, it's time to dig deep and figure
out what you believe about you, me, and our ADHD family. Um,
and so as a child, I was incredibly unhappy. Um,
(06:47):
I was screamed at a lot. Shamed a lot. But, um.
And now I have the compassion that that was undiagnosed ADHD.
Both my parents have undiagnosed ADHD, and that left an
indelible mark on me. So then when I was a mom,
(07:07):
I'm like, I will not yell at my kids. I
will not do the same thing. But I still had
ADHD undiagnosed at that time and untreated. And so what
happened to me was I just felt like a failure
all the time. Um, I would try so hard to
be the perfect mom for my kids. And I kept
(07:28):
falling short again and again. And so that led to
a lot of shame in my life, uh, because I
wanted to be so good for those kids.
S1 (07:40):
So, does perfectionism go along with ADHD? Are they kissing cousins?
S2 (07:47):
You know, they really are. Um, in a lot of us,
there's an adaptation that we try to do. And this
is particularly I see this in women. Women are like,
all right, it doesn't matter that I have ADHD. I'm
going to manage myself through perfectionism and, you know, the
pitfalls with perfectionism. But it was a coping strategy that
(08:08):
I tried to develop and I did I tried to
be the perfect mom. Um, I learned a lot. And
I remember, um, Chris, I think you're referring to the time, um,
and I wrote about this in the introduction. We loaded
up the kids, we went to Michigan Adventure, and I
worked so hard to get water bottles, diaper bags. Everything
(08:30):
all set? Strollers. And I get there. And in the
back seat, I hear one of my kiddos say, uh oh.
She had forgotten to put on her shoes. And so
now we're an hour away from home. I'm right. Uh oh.
but it was never a good. Uh oh. Um, I
(08:54):
it still can send chills down my spine. But, um,
at that moment, I wasn't angry with her. I was
so discouraged because I couldn't keep it all together.
S1 (09:04):
Yes.
S2 (09:05):
And I, you know, I had read all the books
on how to be a great Christian mom, how to
be a great Christian wife. And none of it was working.
And it wasn't because I wasn't adding in the fact
that I had ADHD.
S1 (09:20):
And isn't that why? Isn't that where the shame comes from?
Because your daughter forgot her shoes. You know, and you
didn't say, oh, that's too bad. We'll have to, you know,
stop at the store and get some or anything. You
immediately internalize that and say, well, I'm a failure. I'm bad,
I'm bad. Uh, I didn't she depended on me and
(09:40):
I didn't do my job. And so that's where you
get down that spiral of shame, right?
S2 (09:47):
All right, Chris, you're nailing it today because that's exactly
what folks with ADHD do. We we tend to do, um,
you know, I want so I want so much to
be so good for this person. And I keep failing.
And so then we drive it inward. And remember a
lot of ADHD is about emotional dysregulation. So shame in
(10:08):
this case isn't something I should actually be feel shame for. Uh,
you're exactly right. Go. Well, let's go to Walgreens and
buy yourself a pair of flip flops. Right. Which is
what we did back then. That was the only thing
close enough for us. And so she walked around with
a really ugly pair of flip flops. But, um, you know,
(10:29):
I what we do is we take those feelings and
we're dysregulated, and so we we harm ourselves with those
big feelings that we have.
S1 (10:40):
Yes.
S2 (10:40):
And all ADHD people tend to have big feelings. And
whereas someone else? If they're like, hey there, kid forgot
their shoes, they on a scale of 1 to 10,
they may feel like kind of a level six, like, oh,
this is irritating. Whereas I would go to a nine
and go, what does this mean about me as a parent?
S1 (11:02):
Do you see why I wanted to re-air this conversation
at the back fence today? Oh, it's there's something special
going on. And it happened just before Thanksgiving of last year.
Our programs recorded don't call us today if you hear
a phone number, disregard that. But there is just something
that was going on because we're making connections with what
(11:23):
Doctor Rozier has been through in her life. And I'm
seeing things in my own life that are kind of
coming to the surface. So you're going to hear more
about that if you go to the website. chris.org, you'll
see more about Doctor Rozier and her book, you, me
and our ADHD family. Let's go to Chris Fabry live.
(11:44):
There's more coming up straight ahead on Moody Radio.
S3 (11:56):
This is Chris Fabry.
S1 (11:57):
Live on Moody Radio. Thanks a lot for joining us
at the Radio backyard Fence, where we're dealing with ADHD.
And your family doctor Tamara Rozier has written you, me
and our ADHD family. You can find it at our website, npr.org.
Our program is recorded. Don't call us today. There's a
(12:19):
portion of the book that really captivated me. So let
me read a section. Meet Carly, Lilly, Tara and John.
And they're not so thankful. Holiday. It began with a
text between the sisters. Are you going home for Thanksgiving?
Carly asked Lilly. Lilly, a third year law student, felt
immediately overwhelmed by the question. Her mind raced. It's a
(12:42):
5.5 hour car ride home. My classes don't end until
3 p.m. Wednesday. Oh, and with the time zone difference
driving home, I'll lose an hour once I pack my car.
I wouldn't get there until late. I'd have to leave
the house by 4 p.m. on Saturday, so I can
have a day in my apartment to prepare for the
following week. Oh, and I have that paper due. When
will I finish that? The cadence of her thoughts hastened.
(13:04):
Then ID have to find someone to feed my cat,
and my laundry would need to be done. Oh, I'm
already so behind with laundry. What would I pack? When
would I pack? Am I overdue for an oil change? Tires?
Wasn't I supposed to do something about my car tires
this past summer? She felt overwhelmed with her speeding thoughts
and texted Carly, I just don't think I can do it.
(13:25):
So all of that was going on inside of her,
and she just she finally said, it's too much. I
just I can't I can't do this. She texted that.
And then the response then is how could you? So
take us into that scenario because the people don't understand
the level of complexity that you're going through.
S2 (13:47):
Right. Well. Well, now, I mean, so, you know, that's
what the ADHD person is thinking, like, oh, I want
to be with my family. But all the executive functions,
we call them executive functions. It's that handy part of
your brain that knows what to do, how to do,
when to do it. And so in the example you
just read, all her executive functions were flooded. Like I
(14:10):
have so much to do. What do I do? And
she was flooded. So when she texted her sister back
and said, I just don't know. Now her sister, being
neurotypical became angry. Are you kidding? You don't care enough
about our family? What, are you kidding? Are you kidding
me right now? So instead of going, can you help
me understand? Could I help you talk? Talk this through. Um,
(14:35):
in the story, uh, the sister contacts the mom and says. Yeah,
it's a shame she's not going to be at Thanksgiving.
And then the mom flips out. So now we have
a nice little triangle happening, right? And so then Grandpa
John ends up getting involved and, um, talks to the
(14:59):
mother of the two sisters saying, you know, you need
to give her a break. She, she has ADHD, which
Grandpa John also has ADHD. So there's all this miscommunication
all over someone's executive function.
S1 (15:12):
And there's judgment there, too.
S2 (15:14):
There's this so much judgment.
S1 (15:16):
Right? Yeah. And and that could have been solved with
the simple, you know, the text after she texted. I'm,
you know, I'm I'm stressed out. I can't I just
can't do it. Um, you know, a phone call that says,
tell me what's going on? What's what's happening? Oh, not
to change her, you know, not to get her to come,
but to say, hey, I care about you. What's what's
(15:37):
going on?
S2 (15:39):
Okay. Oh, I love it, I. I just got a
little teary eyed when you said it, because that's my dream.
That's my dream for my clients is just to have
that peaceful conversation of. Sounds like you're overwhelmed. Can we
talk about it? And you're right not to change her.
But that gentleness doesn't tend to happen in families. And
(15:59):
let me tell you why. Those of us with ADHD,
we are a handful. And I try to admit it,
I get it. I'm not a I'm not a peach
to live with. Um, I have emotional dysregulation, and I
get overwhelmed when my executive functions are kind of, um,
kind of getting. It's like the mirror gets steamed up.
(16:21):
That's how I kind of view it in my brain.
And so I let people down who I love in
my life, I make mistakes, I need to ask for help.
And so sometimes our family can look at us and go, seriously,
you're not even trying. For crying out loud. Can you
just help us? Right.
S1 (16:42):
Exactly. Yeah. And? Okay. Define that. What is emotional dysregulation?
It sounds like you just get angry. When? When you
don't want to.
S2 (16:53):
Yeah. So, um. So here I'm going. Chris, I'm going
to nerd out just for a second, but it's not
I'm not going to go too deep. But your listeners
really need to understand this. When you have ADHD, there's
a part of your brain called the prefrontal cortex. If
you tap on your forehead, that's called the prefrontal, uh,
where the prefrontal cortex is. Now, that is that place
(17:16):
that decides what to do, how to do it, and
when to do it. It's a really nifty thing, but
those of us with ADHD, we have unreliable access to
that prefrontal cortex. So because and again this that's not
related to intelligence thank goodness. Right. It, but it is
(17:38):
related to how we do things. So what we do
with ADHD is we're like, well, we need to use
a different part of our brain to do this. Oh, great.
We're going to use the most basic part of our brain,
the amygdala, to just tell us if we should be
afraid or if we should fight, flight, freeze or appease. Yeah.
That's it. We're going to use that system to organize
(18:00):
tasks instead of our prefrontal cortex. That means we go
through life having great big emotions and they're actually kind
of using it. We're using it like a sonar, um,
to try to figure out what we should do and
how we should feel about things. Does that make sense
so far?
S1 (18:19):
It does. Yes it does. Keep going.
S2 (18:22):
Okay, so what happens is, if I'm using that part
of the brain and you say, uh, Tamara, would you
mind unloading the dishwasher? And I'm already kind of kind
of feeling busy. I'm trying to get out of the
house like Chris. Are you kidding me? No. And I
have this immediate kind of flare up now. It's still
(18:42):
my responsibility not to be a jerk to you, but
I get emotionally charged by that moment. Whereas another person
would go, yeah, you know what? I have to leave
in five minutes. I'll do what I can. I'd be
happy to do it later. And so a lot of times,
those of us with ADHD become emotionally flooded. Now I'm
(19:03):
an adult and I can mask that very well. Fairly well.
I go throughout my day do do do. I can
mask how many emotions I have during my day. The
people who can't mask are the kiddos, and they tend
to have big emotions and big feelings about everything, including
the socks they wear. And they tend to have more meltdowns.
S1 (19:28):
You're explaining. You're explaining my life to myself and me
as a parent as well, because I'm thinking about one
scene with one of my daughters that happened when she
wanted to, where she wanted to wear a leotard to church.
And I wish that I wish I could go back
and just put that leotard on her and say, sweetheart,
(19:51):
you know, go to go, go. But I didn't. And
she just wanted to wear. And she called it a
teeter totter. I want to wear my teeter totter. And
my wife left me with her. You know, everybody's in
the car waiting, and I had to go out and say,
what's the teeter totter? She wants to wear her leotard.
And and so that's that's what we were dealing with
(20:14):
right there was she couldn't get that out of her mind.
And I and she's not bad for that. See that's
where because you can't.
S2 (20:22):
Yes.
S1 (20:23):
You can't discipline a child out of that necessarily. You
can you can move toward them. You can have empathy
for them and help them calm a little. Right.
S2 (20:35):
Right. Right. You know something. And I want to be
clear on this. Just having ADHD and emotional dysregulation does
not give us, once we're adults, license to behave poorly.
And I want to be clear on that because sometimes,
you know, we might hear, oh, she has ADHD. So
she just had a meltdown. Nope. If you're a grown up,
(20:57):
you are responsible to behave appropriately. Which is why, you know,
when you had the response of, wow, you know, I
kind of wish the person would just call and say, hey,
tell me what's going on. Even though let's pretend, um,
you had big feelings. You're still choosing a wise behavior there.
S1 (21:17):
Yes, yes.
S2 (21:18):
And so just because we're talking about this emotional dysregulation,
and let's be clear, those of us with ADHD most
likely have, it doesn't mean we we throw it in
other people's faces, make other people suffer, Throw it on
ourselves and feel self loathing. It means we learn to
manage it.
S3 (21:37):
Yes.
S1 (21:38):
And that's why you've written you, me and our ADHD family.
Practical steps to cultivate healthy relationships. I'm going to get
out of your way. (877) 548-3675. Our first call is from
a grandfather, Arthur, in Cleveland, Ohio. Hey, Arthur. Go right ahead.
S4 (21:56):
Uh, it's about my grandson. He's nine years old. He's
very smart. Uh, he gets very good grades, like A's, B's.
But once he's done with what he has to do, uh,
then he has idle time, and he gets into trouble
on a regular basis to the degree that, uh, they
want to expel him. He's been having difficulties with the
(22:18):
school system to, uh, attend to it on a timely fashion.
So my question is, is what do you suggest? Uh,
for him, he definitely does have 80 and he's been diagnosed.
He has medication. They give him medication on occasion. You
can tell when he takes the medication because it's like
(22:39):
he's slowed down, but his behavior can be troublesome.
S2 (22:45):
Yep. Well, our Arthur, make sure you tell your daughter this.
Smart kids are the worst. They're the worst to raise
with ADHD. Um, I'm kind of saying that tongue in cheek. Uh,
that's kind of my specialization. Are those really smart kids
with ADHD? So here's the problem. Uh, those of us
(23:07):
with ADHD when we're under, let's say, 28. Um, but
that's not a hard and fast rule. We tend to
run three years or more behind our peers. And in
that way, we're running behind, like in our ability to
manage emotions, our ability to organize, ability to create, structure,
(23:30):
executive functions. And so it sounds like, um, your grandson
is running behind. Oh, but wait, he's a smart little kid.
And so in some ways, he's he could actually be
performing or able to perform 2 to 3 years above
his grade level. Well, think how confusing that is for
(23:52):
teachers to understand. And it's very confusing for parents to
understand too. And so I would recommend, um, asking your
daughter to try to explain the difference between his, um,
cognitive level and his, um, prefrontal cortex level. And he
(24:14):
he may need help organizing. He may need all that help.
But if we can keep that busy brain somehow occupied
by teaching him appropriate behaviors. So. Hey, buddy, when you're done,
here are your options. And let me be clear. These
here are your options that you cannot do. Uh, when
(24:35):
I was in, um, when I was a child, I had, um,
I would unscrew the bolts in my seat in the desk. Um,
I would do that because I was bored and there
was nothing for me to do. I was a girl,
so I was a little bit more quiet and sneaky
about it, but I was still bored. And so, um,
(24:55):
keeping him, um, occupied with a list of behaviors that
he can do. And this has to be negotiated with
the teacher. Um, a lot of times, if he can
do something to get out energy, um, that would be great. Like,
if he could get up, use the bathroom, wash his hands. Um,
washing your hands is kind of a a nice little activity, um,
(25:19):
and hygienic for little nine year olds. Uh, the ability
to walk down the hall and all that.
S1 (25:26):
That's doctor Tamara Rozier today at the radio backyard fence,
where we're talking about ADHD and getting real practical with
Arthur and his grandson. Now, Arthur had a conversation with
Doctor Rozier in the break. And when we come back
you're going to hear more about what she had to
say about this situation that she's written about in the book, you,
(25:47):
me and our ADHD family. You can find out more
at the website. Chris Fabry Livorno. Livorno.
S3 (26:05):
This is Chris Fabry.
S1 (26:06):
Live on Moody Radio. Thank you so much for joining
us today. Our program is recorded. This is a best
of broadcast from November of 2024. And I chose it
partly because when I saw the topic on my list,
something sparked inside and I thought, oh, this is going
to be so helpful to somebody, and I don't know
(26:27):
what you're going through, but I'm hoping this will hit
home with you or maybe somebody you know, not everybody
has a family member with ADHD. So if this is
not you, there's probably somebody at work, at school, at church,
someone down the street in your neighborhood. And this conversation
could be a lifeline to them. So go to the
(26:48):
website Chris Fabry, archive.org. You'll see a link to hear
the podcast. I get email from people who listen to
the program on YouTube late in the day. There are
a lot of ways for somebody to hear this broadcast,
and I like to say, this is the program from
the heart to the heart for the heart, because we
put a lot of heart into every conversation. And my prayer,
(27:10):
my hope is this is an encouragement to you. So
that's how you can share the content of this conversation.
Go to the website. Chris. Doctor Tamara Rosier is with
us today. She's written you, me and our ADHD family.
(27:30):
And you said something to Arthur. We were talking with Arthur,
and at the end of that, uh, both of us
felt this way. Arthur loves his grandson. His daughter loves
his grandson. And you said this kid's going to be
okay because he has people who love him. How important
is that in the equation?
S2 (27:48):
Okay, I'm so glad you're bringing this up, because this
ADHD is very, very sensitive to the environment that it
is in. So if you have a child in a stable,
supportive environment, the research on this is that child's going
to be okay. Um, unfortunately, when there's ADHD involved, a
(28:10):
lot of times stability isn't a given. So all the
things that can make for a good childhood when they're
there for an ADHD kid, we just know that ADHD
kid has much better odds of being okay.
S1 (28:24):
Yes. Megan is in Boynton Beach, Florida. Hi, Megan. Go
right ahead.
S5 (28:28):
Hi. I am 33 years old and I got diagnosed
with ADHD my last year of law school last year. And, um,
I just thought there was something wrong with me. Basically, like,
my whole life with the way that I act. And
I noticed that my mother acts the same way. So
I thought that, um, my procrastination, my, um, uh, my
(28:53):
mood swings and things like that. A lot of symptoms
of ADHD were just because my mom acted that way.
So it was okay to be that way. But trying
to survive law school was not easy. And so that's
why I decided to get diagnosed. And once I received
the diagnosis, I shared it with my family. And we
are a very super Christian household and um, we're Caribbean
(29:17):
as well. And so when I shared it with multiple
members of my family, they just told me that it
is an evil spirit and I need to pray it away.
And they'll tell me. When you feel anxious, they'll say,
be anxious about nothing. Or if I tell them about
the procrastination, they'll tell me versus like, do not become
weary in doing good. And so I was just asking like,
(29:39):
how do I, I guess, live with this diagnosis of
ADHD and, um, not feel guilty or feel like something
is wrong with me, like an evil spirit is tormenting
me and I need to rebuke it, like most of
my family members have told me.
S2 (29:57):
Oh, Megan.
S1 (29:57):
So hard, isn't it?
S2 (29:58):
I'm so glad you called. Yeah. I am so glad
you called. I wrote the books for you. Uh, I
am so happy. Um, so let's just be really clear. And, Chris,
I know your heart is there. Megan, you are absolutely loved.
Perfectly and holy for exactly how you're made. And I
want to make that abundantly clear. Um, Chris, do you
(30:21):
want to add anything to that before I go on?
S1 (30:23):
No, no. Well, I was going to say, uh, that
the ADHD will isolate you because you've got all of
these thoughts that are spinning inside. So you're kind of
alone in this world, and then you've got people on
the outside who, for community and family who are supposed to,
you know, be closer to you. And so they're making
you even more isolated by saying you're bad, you know,
(30:46):
or you have an evil spirit there. And, and let's,
let's look at their life too, because this is how
they've been tried to put things in, you know, into
the compartments of their life. And then you just say
this verse and you believe this, and then you go on.
So it's like, I understand both sides of it, but
I'm we have made it here in front of us.
So what do you say to her?
S2 (31:06):
Yeah. Thank you for adding that. So first of all,
ADHD is a neurological difference. And I'll never forget the
day I was driving down the road. And I was
praying because I usually pray in the car because sitting
and doing devotions sounds really well. It sounds hard for me.
And so, um, I made a deal with God that
(31:27):
I'm just constantly praying. It's a constant open communication. I'll
never forget I was driving down the road, praying and
thinking and just saying, God, why is my brain this way?
And I still remember the moment where I realized God
never made a mistake. It's I have a neurological difference.
(31:48):
Just like I have blue eyes. God's like. That's a
characteristic of you. There's nothing wrong. It's a difference. And,
you know, I was like, yeah, but, you know, I
have this propensity for shame. Well that's okay. Let's grow
out of it together. Let's do this. And so I
want to encourage you, um, your brain is kind of
(32:10):
it has a bend to, um, procrastinate. Has it been
to have anxiety because you use it like gasoline, right?
You try to start a fire in your head so
that you'll know how to do something. So it's a
neurological difference. God did not make a mistake. Um, and
by the way, we would not say to pray away
(32:32):
like other things that people can see. Um, somehow, if
it's cognitive, people tend to go, well, I think I
think you're just making this up. So before we go on,
I want to take a moment and say you were
diagnosed your third year of law school. Do you understand
how smart you had to be? And I'm really serious
(32:55):
about this. You had limited access to your prefrontal cortex.
In other words, you're super bad at structuring activities. Short
term memories compromised. All these things are compromised. And you
didn't get diagnosed until third year of law school, which
means you had to do at your smart cookie, and
(33:17):
we have to. We have to understand, like, wow. Good.
Good on you. You did this, so that's fantastic. Oh,
but now I want you to understand that you can
get stronger in some things, but we can learn to
accept others. Um, I personally, um, pray about my anxiety
because I don't want to live in that state. Um,
(33:39):
but it's not. God, take this away. It's. Hey, God,
I'm using anxiety again. Um, to do this and this
and this. And it sounds like you've read some books on, um, ADHD,
so you know this. And so it's a discussion. It's like,
what do you want me to learn from this and
can I is there anything for me to learn. And
(34:00):
so I'm not trying to pray it away. Um, I'm
trying God knows that I have a neurological difference. Um,
I know that your family is doing the best they
know how right now, and, um, they probably have ADHD too,
and they probably feel a lot of shame for how
(34:20):
their brain works. And I know this is a tough ask,
but if when you look at them, you can have
compassion of oh, they don't understand yet, they don't understand.
Instead of internalizing the message of I'm not good enough,
have it. They're not to the place where I am yet,
and that's I have to love and accept them. Well,
(34:43):
you don't have to. It's a decision.
S1 (34:45):
Right?
S2 (34:46):
Um.
S1 (34:47):
Megan, is that you can love them in the middle
of it. Yeah. So, Megan, what do you say to that?
S5 (34:55):
Yeah. Thank you. That definitely makes sense, because I've always
taught my mom how to do. And I told her that,
and she just always told me that's a bad spirit.
Rebuke it in the name of Jesus. And so I'm like, well,
I kind of like that my brain can do a
million things at once. And so I don't want that
to stop. Like I call myself the mega of all trades.
(35:15):
But then I feel bad for it because I'm like,
maybe I shouldn't be able to do that. And, um,
and so it's just really I walk around thinking like,
is there an evil spirit, like whispering negative things to me?
Do I need to rebuke every single time I'm like
on overdrive and all the times I'm not on overdrive?
And so it's really like thought about spirit following me
(35:36):
that's really been bothering me ever since I've been diagnosed.
But that doesn't make sense. So thank you.
S2 (35:42):
Yeah. Well, Megan, of all trades, first of all, I
love that, um, you're gifted in so many areas, and
I want you. I want you to really look at.
I truly believe God looks at us and rejoices. He
loves his creation. And he didn't make a mistake. He
made Meg of all trades. So he's looking at you going,
you go, girl. You go, oh yeah, right. You did
(36:04):
procrastinate there. But you know what? You're nailing a lot
of things. And procrastination is mostly a modern thing anyway.
I didn't make that one up. So he's cheering for
you and he loves you. And so I want you
to kind of not not be kind of down on
yourself as you're going through. But do understand there are pitfalls.
(36:24):
And I wrote about this in the first book where
our brain kind of wants to fall into some pitfalls,
like anger. We'll use anger to motivate ourselves. Well, spiritually
that's not good for us. And so we do want
to work on it because spiritually, that's not a great
practice right now. God can still he still sees us.
(36:45):
He loves us. But he's like, wow, if you could
do that without anger, Meg, that'd be super. But I'm
still walking with you every step of the way.
S1 (36:54):
I find it interesting that she's, you know, in her
early 30s, in his diagnosed. And I see some folks
on Facebook who are saying thank you for talking about this.
I only recently got diagnosed. I'm in my 50s. And
then another who says, I'm 73. I've lived with this
my whole life. Staying on task has got to be
(37:15):
the most difficult thing to deal with. I just bounce
from one thing to another, rarely finishing what I started
to do in one attempt. So folks are getting exactly
what we're talking about today. And if you go to
the website Chris fabry.org, you'll see our featured resource, you,
me and our ADHD Family Practical Steps to Cultivate Healthy Relationships.
(37:39):
Doctor Tamara Rozier is with us today. You can find
out more about her at Chris. More of your calls
straight ahead on Moody Radio. Doctor Tamara Rozier is with
(38:05):
us today. She's written the book, Your Brain's Not Broken.
And then her latest is you, me, and our ADHD family.
Practical steps to cultivate healthy relationships might be just what
you need. And it looks like from what I'm seeing
with the phone lines today and our Facebook page, that
this is hitting a nerve with people. And here's Kelly
(38:26):
in Tennessee. Hi, Kelly. Go right ahead.
S6 (38:30):
Hi. How are you both doing?
S1 (38:32):
Great.
S2 (38:32):
Thank you. Thanks, Kelly.
S6 (38:34):
Good. Good. I'm. I am not one who has ADHD,
but I teach a classroom that has 24 of them.
And so I guess my question is this. How can
this be applied in an educational setting? What can a
teacher do to. Because I love I tell my kids
this all the time, I love you just the way
(38:56):
you are, but I also love you too much to
leave you that way. And I think that it it
would be a great help to know how this could
apply to a classroom.
S2 (39:08):
Yeah, I love it. And I love that there's teachers
out there like you. That's fantastic. Uh, so a couple things, Kelly. Uh, uh,
I'd love for you to remember that those of us
with ADHD have a different sort of nervous system. And
what that means is our nervous system looks for novelty. Um,
(39:29):
something new, something interesting. Um. Excuse me. And so we
love solving problems. So if you want to keep us engaged. Um,
not the novelty can always be there, but we love
problem solving. Every ADHD person, if you're like, wow, this
is a problem. Their brain just kind of clicks in
(39:49):
and goes, well, let me think about it, about this.
So problem solving in your classroom, um, hands on experiments
is great. Um, I would also recommend, um, learning about
divergent versus convergent thinking. Divergent thinking is what those of
us with ADHD do with just very naturally. And it's
(40:10):
highly creative. It's coloring outside the lines. Convergent thinking is, um,
very kind of there's you go from A to B
to C to D and it Kelly that's probably how
you think. And so if you can create a classroom
where you teach your kiddos like hey, now it's time
for divergent thinking, let's let's be creative. Let's use those
(40:32):
creative brains. Oops. Now it's time for convergent. We have
to slow down the thinking. We have to go from
point A to point B, and teaching your kiddos how
to kind of manage their brains will help.
S1 (40:47):
Mhm. You said in another interview that I saw the
the idea of do I look normal to you? Am
I normal to you. There's this constant need for it's
not validation. There's something else. But if you've got a
classroom of kids that are feeling that, you know, am
(41:08):
I normal? They're crying out for that. Um, that that
can be really hard to meet all of those different needs. Right?
S2 (41:16):
Oh, wow. Chris, you just brought up something really important.
So our reward system is pretty clear. If you praise us,
we'll walk through fire for you. Um, I was a
high school teacher, and I was, you know, so wet
behind the ears. I didn't know much about ADHD, didn't
know I had it at the time, but I knew
if I loved my students deeply and helped meet the
(41:40):
needs that they're expressing, that would cover a lot of things.
And I that is so important for the ADHD nervous system.
It's important for all humans, but for us to feel
safe and loved completely is so important. Which, Kelly, it
sounds like you are already doing that.
S1 (41:59):
Yeah. Kelly, thank you for calling. Thanks for your work
with those kids. What is a smartphone do Tamara to
the to a child with ADHD or an adult with ADHD.
S2 (42:10):
Oh, heavens. You know, we fall down huge rabbit holes.
It's a time suck. Um, it's not great. Uh, I
worry about, uh, younger parents who are staring at their phones. Um,
and we're teaching to stare at the phone instead of, um,
talking with each other. So, um, I coach people to
(42:32):
put timers on their phones to let them know. Hey,
you've been on on TikTok for this this long? Uh,
do you want to shut off this alarm, or do
you want to walk away and do something? So it's.
iPhones are wonderful. I, I use it to set timers.
I use it to find information. It's a wonderful tool
that those of us with ADHD can be incredibly distracted from.
(42:57):
So it's just another tool that we have got to
use better.
S1 (43:02):
Scott is in Florida. Scott. Real quickly, tell me why
you called today.
S7 (43:07):
Hi. Yeah. Um, thank you very much for taking my call,
I appreciate it. Uh, so ADHD saved my life. Uh,
I grew up with it in the 80s. Nobody knew
what it was. I was put on all kinds of medication.
I thought I was broken. I tried to commit suicide
numerous times. Um, my parents didn't know what to do
(43:30):
with me. They. I remember going through brain scans. I
went through all these different things when I found out
about the Lord, and I found out that he was real,
I said, you created me this way. So teach me
who I am, because nobody seems to figure it out.
So if you created me this way, then you must
know how my brain works. So he started walking me
(43:53):
through a many, many year process of teaching me how
my brain works. That when somebody is teaching me from
a classroom. I can envision what they're teaching me because
I'm a hands on type person. I can I can
envision what they're teaching me, and I can learn what
they're saying by translating it in my brain in a
(44:14):
certain way so that I can understand. And and he
he started teaching me how to focus on certain things,
because a lot one of the superpowers of somebody with
ADHD is they they can hyper focus in on things.
So I would hyper focus in on certain things that
were not good for me. He taught me how to
to dial that focus in, and most of the time
(44:35):
you just dial it in on him. If I can
dial it in on him, if I can dial it
in on his word, dial it in on the things
that he's teaching me, then I can move in a way,
in this world that is good. And so to make
a long story short, um, it was a long process
of God teaching me about myself. And now I'm at
(44:56):
the point where I'm a single father of three young
kids I can operate, you know, with them. Sometimes it's
hard when the house is dirty and I'm like, where
do I start? Okay. God, you told me to do
one room at a time. Just focus on one room
at a time to clean the house and take care
of my kids and make sure that everybody is taken
(45:17):
care of in the house.
S1 (45:18):
You've described exactly, Scott. What what we've been talking about
this whole hour and how I began the program with you, Tamara,
that it's not something you're you're not broken. It's not
something you just get over. You learn to live well
with what? What you've been diagnosed with and allow God
access there. So I see a lot, of lot of
hope in Scott's story for somebody else who's asking those
(45:41):
hard questions, don't you?
S2 (45:43):
Oh, absolutely. And I can tell he's going to make
an ADHD friendly home for his kids. Yes. So that
they don't have to go through the same stuff he
does that he did.
S1 (45:53):
Scott, thank you so much. Uh, this has just flown by. Tamara,
thank you for your expertise here. I have other folks
who are asking some really good questions, so we'll we'll
come back to this at some point and have you back. Okay.
S2 (46:07):
Oh, I would love to. Thank you so much.
S1 (46:09):
If you go to our website you will see that
featured resource by Doctor Rozier. You me and our ADHD family.
And don't forget the subtitle Practical Steps to Cultivate Healthy Relationships.
That's really what we want. No matter what's going on
in your family, you want to cultivate a healthy relationship.
(46:30):
And my guess is this is encouraged. Somebody today maybe you.
God bless you, friend, as you're walking through this. And
if you were encouraged, reach out to us. Go to
the website. You can see different ways to get in
touch with us. Chris Fabry. Our program is a production
of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks
(46:53):
for listening.
Today at the radio backyard fence. You have ADHD or
someone in your family is dealing with that diagnosis. The
person with ADHD is not the only one affected. It
impacts everybody in the family, everybody in the classroom, everybody
on the team, in the workplace. You might be dealing
with impulsiveness, emotional turbulence or poor organizational skills. Whatever your situation,
(00:33):
there are factors that contribute to making your relationships complicated, stressful,
and downright difficult. How do you deal with that? How
do you avoid the conflict that can come? Our guest
today says your family is not doomed to constant miscommunication
and stress. You can overcome these obstacles, but if your
(00:56):
family is in turmoil, you have to find and use
a different strategy than the one you're using right now.
She really believes you don't cure or solve ADHD, but
you can live well with it. And that's what we're
going to talk about. Straight ahead on the best of
Chris Fabry Live. I hope this is one of those
programs where you look at the radio and you say,
(01:18):
how did you know we were going through this? Maybe
that's you or someone you know. Let's get started. First
with a big thank you to our team. Ryan McConaughey's
doing all things technical. Tricia is our producer. No one's
answering your calls today because our program is recorded. You
can hear dated information because this conversation happened two days
(01:38):
before Thanksgiving of 2024. So be aware of that. You're
going to you're going to hear some dated information. Also
be aware we need your support here at the Radio
Backyard fence. And I want to encourage you to become
a back fence partner. If you give a one time gift,
great call or click through today. We'd love to hear
from you. But there is a growing group of people. Thankfully,
(02:02):
their number is growing who give a gift each month,
and that is so encouraging to us. And as an
encouragement then to you, if you give a monthly gift,
we send you our back fence post every Thursday. This
is a video that we put together. Ryan McConaughey helps me.
We put it together and he gives you even more
(02:23):
content than we get to do here on the air.
You see some behind the scenes information. Plus, you can
receive the thank you gift that we have for you
each month that I mention here. But wait, there's more.
You also get a signed copy of my novel. The
novel from my heart. The promise of Jesse Woods. And
if you give $30 or more a month, you receive 50%
(02:46):
off everything from the Moody Publishers catalog. That means you
can purchase the five love languages and only pay for
two and a half of them. So call or click
through today and you'll see what I'm talking about. Oh,
and the moody Bible Commentary and so much more. 86695
Fabbri is our number. Or go to Chris Fabbri for
(03:07):
your monthly gift. Makes a big difference to us and
the lives touched by this daily conversation. (866) 953-2279 or go
to Chris Fabbri and thanks for your support at the
radio backyard fence. Her name is Doctor Tamara Rozier. She's
(03:30):
a PhD. She's been a college administrator, professor, a leadership consultant,
high school teacher, business owner, and an ADHD coach. As
founder of the ADHD Center of West Michigan, Doctor Rozier
lends a or leads a team of coaches, therapists and
speech pathologists to help individuals, parents and families develop an
(03:52):
understanding of ADHD and learn skills to live with it effectively.
And I think that's the that's the key right there.
She's the author of Your Brain Is Not Broken and
her featured resource today is you, me and our ADHD
family doctor Rozier. How you doing today?
S2 (04:11):
Oh I am so happy to be talking with you today.
Thanks for having me.
S1 (04:15):
There is an axiom that I found for people who
bring hope and healing to others, and it's this the
wound that you have. The struggle of your life can
be used to propel you and propel others toward wholeness.
And it sounds like that is true in your life.
S2 (04:33):
Wow. Way to start out deep. That is exactly true. Uh, yeah. Uh,
my family of origin wasn't a great experience. But you
know what? I've learned to be grateful for that. Um,
I believe they taught me things through through wounds. And
(04:54):
I know that not all of your listeners are there yet,
but I am incredibly grateful for what I experienced because
it allowed me to have insight into what my clients
and readers experience.
S1 (05:08):
Yes, so is is ADHD. Uh, is it hereditary? Something
you pass down? Is it something that you catch by
osmosis then, or you know, the is it the incubator
or what is it?
S2 (05:22):
Yeah, it's it's highly hereditary. So if you have a
parent with ADHD, their likelihood of having offspring with ADHD
is incredibly high. Now, exactly how high? We're still discussing it,
but I'm seeing 0.6 likelihood, which would be a 60% chance. Um,
(05:44):
one researcher says, oh, no, it's more like 80% chance. Well,
no matter what the numbers are, we have to pay
attention to this because it's highly hereditary.
S1 (05:55):
Your mom and you are very careful of saying, you know,
you're very grateful for your family and everybody that's in
your family and your kids and your husband and everybody.
But what you experienced with your mother, at one point,
you saw yourself. She couldn't manage those who were depending
on her. And you saw yourself struggling the same thing
(06:18):
when you had children, right?
S2 (06:21):
Oh, yeah, I had to do I had to dig
deep to write the second book. The first book was
kind of like, hey, folks, your brain's not broken. There's
so much hope. Good on you. The second book was.
All right, Tamara, it's time to dig deep and figure
out what you believe about you, me, and our ADHD family. Um,
and so as a child, I was incredibly unhappy. Um,
(06:47):
I was screamed at a lot. Shamed a lot. But, um.
And now I have the compassion that that was undiagnosed ADHD.
Both my parents have undiagnosed ADHD, and that left an
indelible mark on me. So then when I was a mom,
(07:07):
I'm like, I will not yell at my kids. I
will not do the same thing. But I still had
ADHD undiagnosed at that time and untreated. And so what
happened to me was I just felt like a failure
all the time. Um, I would try so hard to
be the perfect mom for my kids. And I kept
(07:28):
falling short again and again. And so that led to
a lot of shame in my life, uh, because I
wanted to be so good for those kids.
S1 (07:40):
So, does perfectionism go along with ADHD? Are they kissing cousins?
S2 (07:47):
You know, they really are. Um, in a lot of us,
there's an adaptation that we try to do. And this
is particularly I see this in women. Women are like,
all right, it doesn't matter that I have ADHD. I'm
going to manage myself through perfectionism and, you know, the
pitfalls with perfectionism. But it was a coping strategy that
(08:08):
I tried to develop and I did I tried to
be the perfect mom. Um, I learned a lot. And
I remember, um, Chris, I think you're referring to the time, um,
and I wrote about this in the introduction. We loaded
up the kids, we went to Michigan Adventure, and I
worked so hard to get water bottles, diaper bags. Everything
(08:30):
all set? Strollers. And I get there. And in the
back seat, I hear one of my kiddos say, uh oh.
She had forgotten to put on her shoes. And so
now we're an hour away from home. I'm right. Uh oh.
but it was never a good. Uh oh. Um, I
(08:54):
it still can send chills down my spine. But, um,
at that moment, I wasn't angry with her. I was
so discouraged because I couldn't keep it all together.
S1 (09:04):
Yes.
S2 (09:05):
And I, you know, I had read all the books
on how to be a great Christian mom, how to
be a great Christian wife. And none of it was working.
And it wasn't because I wasn't adding in the fact
that I had ADHD.
S1 (09:20):
And isn't that why? Isn't that where the shame comes from?
Because your daughter forgot her shoes. You know, and you
didn't say, oh, that's too bad. We'll have to, you know,
stop at the store and get some or anything. You
immediately internalize that and say, well, I'm a failure. I'm bad,
I'm bad. Uh, I didn't she depended on me and
(09:40):
I didn't do my job. And so that's where you
get down that spiral of shame, right?
S2 (09:47):
All right, Chris, you're nailing it today because that's exactly
what folks with ADHD do. We we tend to do, um,
you know, I want so I want so much to
be so good for this person. And I keep failing.
And so then we drive it inward. And remember a
lot of ADHD is about emotional dysregulation. So shame in
(10:08):
this case isn't something I should actually be feel shame for. Uh,
you're exactly right. Go. Well, let's go to Walgreens and
buy yourself a pair of flip flops. Right. Which is
what we did back then. That was the only thing
close enough for us. And so she walked around with
a really ugly pair of flip flops. But, um, you know,
(10:29):
I what we do is we take those feelings and
we're dysregulated, and so we we harm ourselves with those
big feelings that we have.
S1 (10:40):
Yes.
S2 (10:40):
And all ADHD people tend to have big feelings. And
whereas someone else? If they're like, hey there, kid forgot
their shoes, they on a scale of 1 to 10,
they may feel like kind of a level six, like, oh,
this is irritating. Whereas I would go to a nine
and go, what does this mean about me as a parent?
S1 (11:02):
Do you see why I wanted to re-air this conversation
at the back fence today? Oh, it's there's something special
going on. And it happened just before Thanksgiving of last year.
Our programs recorded don't call us today if you hear
a phone number, disregard that. But there is just something
that was going on because we're making connections with what
(11:23):
Doctor Rozier has been through in her life. And I'm
seeing things in my own life that are kind of
coming to the surface. So you're going to hear more
about that if you go to the website. chris.org, you'll
see more about Doctor Rozier and her book, you, me
and our ADHD family. Let's go to Chris Fabry live.
(11:44):
There's more coming up straight ahead on Moody Radio.
S3 (11:56):
This is Chris Fabry.
S1 (11:57):
Live on Moody Radio. Thanks a lot for joining us
at the Radio backyard Fence, where we're dealing with ADHD.
And your family doctor Tamara Rozier has written you, me
and our ADHD family. You can find it at our website, npr.org.
Our program is recorded. Don't call us today. There's a
(12:19):
portion of the book that really captivated me. So let
me read a section. Meet Carly, Lilly, Tara and John.
And they're not so thankful. Holiday. It began with a
text between the sisters. Are you going home for Thanksgiving?
Carly asked Lilly. Lilly, a third year law student, felt
immediately overwhelmed by the question. Her mind raced. It's a
(12:42):
5.5 hour car ride home. My classes don't end until
3 p.m. Wednesday. Oh, and with the time zone difference
driving home, I'll lose an hour once I pack my car.
I wouldn't get there until late. I'd have to leave
the house by 4 p.m. on Saturday, so I can
have a day in my apartment to prepare for the
following week. Oh, and I have that paper due. When
will I finish that? The cadence of her thoughts hastened.
(13:04):
Then ID have to find someone to feed my cat,
and my laundry would need to be done. Oh, I'm
already so behind with laundry. What would I pack? When
would I pack? Am I overdue for an oil change? Tires?
Wasn't I supposed to do something about my car tires
this past summer? She felt overwhelmed with her speeding thoughts
and texted Carly, I just don't think I can do it.
(13:25):
So all of that was going on inside of her,
and she just she finally said, it's too much. I
just I can't I can't do this. She texted that.
And then the response then is how could you? So
take us into that scenario because the people don't understand
the level of complexity that you're going through.
S2 (13:47):
Right. Well. Well, now, I mean, so, you know, that's
what the ADHD person is thinking, like, oh, I want
to be with my family. But all the executive functions,
we call them executive functions. It's that handy part of
your brain that knows what to do, how to do,
when to do it. And so in the example you
just read, all her executive functions were flooded. Like I
(14:10):
have so much to do. What do I do? And
she was flooded. So when she texted her sister back
and said, I just don't know. Now her sister, being
neurotypical became angry. Are you kidding? You don't care enough
about our family? What, are you kidding? Are you kidding
me right now? So instead of going, can you help
me understand? Could I help you talk? Talk this through. Um,
(14:35):
in the story, uh, the sister contacts the mom and says. Yeah,
it's a shame she's not going to be at Thanksgiving.
And then the mom flips out. So now we have
a nice little triangle happening, right? And so then Grandpa
John ends up getting involved and, um, talks to the
(14:59):
mother of the two sisters saying, you know, you need
to give her a break. She, she has ADHD, which
Grandpa John also has ADHD. So there's all this miscommunication
all over someone's executive function.
S1 (15:12):
And there's judgment there, too.
S2 (15:14):
There's this so much judgment.
S1 (15:16):
Right? Yeah. And and that could have been solved with
the simple, you know, the text after she texted. I'm,
you know, I'm I'm stressed out. I can't I just
can't do it. Um, you know, a phone call that says,
tell me what's going on? What's what's happening? Oh, not
to change her, you know, not to get her to come,
but to say, hey, I care about you. What's what's
(15:37):
going on?
S2 (15:39):
Okay. Oh, I love it, I. I just got a
little teary eyed when you said it, because that's my dream.
That's my dream for my clients is just to have
that peaceful conversation of. Sounds like you're overwhelmed. Can we
talk about it? And you're right not to change her.
But that gentleness doesn't tend to happen in families. And
(15:59):
let me tell you why. Those of us with ADHD,
we are a handful. And I try to admit it,
I get it. I'm not a I'm not a peach
to live with. Um, I have emotional dysregulation, and I
get overwhelmed when my executive functions are kind of, um,
kind of getting. It's like the mirror gets steamed up.
(16:21):
That's how I kind of view it in my brain.
And so I let people down who I love in
my life, I make mistakes, I need to ask for help.
And so sometimes our family can look at us and go, seriously,
you're not even trying. For crying out loud. Can you
just help us? Right.
S1 (16:42):
Exactly. Yeah. And? Okay. Define that. What is emotional dysregulation?
It sounds like you just get angry. When? When you
don't want to.
S2 (16:53):
Yeah. So, um. So here I'm going. Chris, I'm going
to nerd out just for a second, but it's not
I'm not going to go too deep. But your listeners
really need to understand this. When you have ADHD, there's
a part of your brain called the prefrontal cortex. If
you tap on your forehead, that's called the prefrontal, uh,
where the prefrontal cortex is. Now, that is that place
(17:16):
that decides what to do, how to do it, and
when to do it. It's a really nifty thing, but
those of us with ADHD, we have unreliable access to
that prefrontal cortex. So because and again this that's not
related to intelligence thank goodness. Right. It, but it is
(17:38):
related to how we do things. So what we do
with ADHD is we're like, well, we need to use
a different part of our brain to do this. Oh, great.
We're going to use the most basic part of our brain,
the amygdala, to just tell us if we should be
afraid or if we should fight, flight, freeze or appease. Yeah.
That's it. We're going to use that system to organize
(18:00):
tasks instead of our prefrontal cortex. That means we go
through life having great big emotions and they're actually kind
of using it. We're using it like a sonar, um,
to try to figure out what we should do and
how we should feel about things. Does that make sense
so far?
S1 (18:19):
It does. Yes it does. Keep going.
S2 (18:22):
Okay, so what happens is, if I'm using that part
of the brain and you say, uh, Tamara, would you
mind unloading the dishwasher? And I'm already kind of kind
of feeling busy. I'm trying to get out of the
house like Chris. Are you kidding me? No. And I
have this immediate kind of flare up now. It's still
(18:42):
my responsibility not to be a jerk to you, but
I get emotionally charged by that moment. Whereas another person
would go, yeah, you know what? I have to leave
in five minutes. I'll do what I can. I'd be
happy to do it later. And so a lot of times,
those of us with ADHD become emotionally flooded. Now I'm
(19:03):
an adult and I can mask that very well. Fairly well.
I go throughout my day do do do. I can
mask how many emotions I have during my day. The
people who can't mask are the kiddos, and they tend
to have big emotions and big feelings about everything, including
the socks they wear. And they tend to have more meltdowns.
S1 (19:28):
You're explaining. You're explaining my life to myself and me
as a parent as well, because I'm thinking about one
scene with one of my daughters that happened when she
wanted to, where she wanted to wear a leotard to church.
And I wish that I wish I could go back
and just put that leotard on her and say, sweetheart,
(19:51):
you know, go to go, go. But I didn't. And
she just wanted to wear. And she called it a
teeter totter. I want to wear my teeter totter. And
my wife left me with her. You know, everybody's in
the car waiting, and I had to go out and say,
what's the teeter totter? She wants to wear her leotard.
And and so that's that's what we were dealing with
(20:14):
right there was she couldn't get that out of her mind.
And I and she's not bad for that. See that's
where because you can't.
S2 (20:22):
Yes.
S1 (20:23):
You can't discipline a child out of that necessarily. You
can you can move toward them. You can have empathy
for them and help them calm a little. Right.
S2 (20:35):
Right. Right. You know something. And I want to be
clear on this. Just having ADHD and emotional dysregulation does
not give us, once we're adults, license to behave poorly.
And I want to be clear on that because sometimes,
you know, we might hear, oh, she has ADHD. So
she just had a meltdown. Nope. If you're a grown up,
(20:57):
you are responsible to behave appropriately. Which is why, you know,
when you had the response of, wow, you know, I
kind of wish the person would just call and say, hey,
tell me what's going on. Even though let's pretend, um,
you had big feelings. You're still choosing a wise behavior there.
S1 (21:17):
Yes, yes.
S2 (21:18):
And so just because we're talking about this emotional dysregulation,
and let's be clear, those of us with ADHD most
likely have, it doesn't mean we we throw it in
other people's faces, make other people suffer, Throw it on
ourselves and feel self loathing. It means we learn to
manage it.
S3 (21:37):
Yes.
S1 (21:38):
And that's why you've written you, me and our ADHD family.
Practical steps to cultivate healthy relationships. I'm going to get
out of your way. (877) 548-3675. Our first call is from
a grandfather, Arthur, in Cleveland, Ohio. Hey, Arthur. Go right ahead.
S4 (21:56):
Uh, it's about my grandson. He's nine years old. He's
very smart. Uh, he gets very good grades, like A's, B's.
But once he's done with what he has to do, uh,
then he has idle time, and he gets into trouble
on a regular basis to the degree that, uh, they
want to expel him. He's been having difficulties with the
(22:18):
school system to, uh, attend to it on a timely fashion.
So my question is, is what do you suggest? Uh,
for him, he definitely does have 80 and he's been diagnosed.
He has medication. They give him medication on occasion. You
can tell when he takes the medication because it's like
(22:39):
he's slowed down, but his behavior can be troublesome.
S2 (22:45):
Yep. Well, our Arthur, make sure you tell your daughter this.
Smart kids are the worst. They're the worst to raise
with ADHD. Um, I'm kind of saying that tongue in cheek. Uh,
that's kind of my specialization. Are those really smart kids
with ADHD? So here's the problem. Uh, those of us
(23:07):
with ADHD when we're under, let's say, 28. Um, but
that's not a hard and fast rule. We tend to
run three years or more behind our peers. And in
that way, we're running behind, like in our ability to
manage emotions, our ability to organize, ability to create, structure,
(23:30):
executive functions. And so it sounds like, um, your grandson
is running behind. Oh, but wait, he's a smart little kid.
And so in some ways, he's he could actually be
performing or able to perform 2 to 3 years above
his grade level. Well, think how confusing that is for
(23:52):
teachers to understand. And it's very confusing for parents to
understand too. And so I would recommend, um, asking your
daughter to try to explain the difference between his, um,
cognitive level and his, um, prefrontal cortex level. And he
(24:14):
he may need help organizing. He may need all that help.
But if we can keep that busy brain somehow occupied
by teaching him appropriate behaviors. So. Hey, buddy, when you're done,
here are your options. And let me be clear. These
here are your options that you cannot do. Uh, when
(24:35):
I was in, um, when I was a child, I had, um,
I would unscrew the bolts in my seat in the desk. Um,
I would do that because I was bored and there
was nothing for me to do. I was a girl,
so I was a little bit more quiet and sneaky
about it, but I was still bored. And so, um,
(24:55):
keeping him, um, occupied with a list of behaviors that
he can do. And this has to be negotiated with
the teacher. Um, a lot of times, if he can
do something to get out energy, um, that would be great. Like,
if he could get up, use the bathroom, wash his hands. Um,
washing your hands is kind of a a nice little activity, um,
(25:19):
and hygienic for little nine year olds. Uh, the ability
to walk down the hall and all that.
S1 (25:26):
That's doctor Tamara Rozier today at the radio backyard fence,
where we're talking about ADHD and getting real practical with
Arthur and his grandson. Now, Arthur had a conversation with
Doctor Rozier in the break. And when we come back
you're going to hear more about what she had to
say about this situation that she's written about in the book, you,
(25:47):
me and our ADHD family. You can find out more
at the website. Chris Fabry Livorno. Livorno.
S3 (26:05):
This is Chris Fabry.
S1 (26:06):
Live on Moody Radio. Thank you so much for joining
us today. Our program is recorded. This is a best
of broadcast from November of 2024. And I chose it
partly because when I saw the topic on my list,
something sparked inside and I thought, oh, this is going
to be so helpful to somebody, and I don't know
(26:27):
what you're going through, but I'm hoping this will hit
home with you or maybe somebody you know, not everybody
has a family member with ADHD. So if this is
not you, there's probably somebody at work, at school, at church,
someone down the street in your neighborhood. And this conversation
could be a lifeline to them. So go to the
(26:48):
website Chris Fabry, archive.org. You'll see a link to hear
the podcast. I get email from people who listen to
the program on YouTube late in the day. There are
a lot of ways for somebody to hear this broadcast,
and I like to say, this is the program from
the heart to the heart for the heart, because we
put a lot of heart into every conversation. And my prayer,
(27:10):
my hope is this is an encouragement to you. So
that's how you can share the content of this conversation.
Go to the website. Chris. Doctor Tamara Rosier is with
us today. She's written you, me and our ADHD family.
(27:30):
And you said something to Arthur. We were talking with Arthur,
and at the end of that, uh, both of us
felt this way. Arthur loves his grandson. His daughter loves
his grandson. And you said this kid's going to be
okay because he has people who love him. How important
is that in the equation?
S2 (27:48):
Okay, I'm so glad you're bringing this up, because this
ADHD is very, very sensitive to the environment that it
is in. So if you have a child in a stable,
supportive environment, the research on this is that child's going
to be okay. Um, unfortunately, when there's ADHD involved, a
(28:10):
lot of times stability isn't a given. So all the
things that can make for a good childhood when they're
there for an ADHD kid, we just know that ADHD
kid has much better odds of being okay.
S1 (28:24):
Yes. Megan is in Boynton Beach, Florida. Hi, Megan. Go
right ahead.
S5 (28:28):
Hi. I am 33 years old and I got diagnosed
with ADHD my last year of law school last year. And, um,
I just thought there was something wrong with me. Basically, like,
my whole life with the way that I act. And
I noticed that my mother acts the same way. So
I thought that, um, my procrastination, my, um, uh, my
(28:53):
mood swings and things like that. A lot of symptoms
of ADHD were just because my mom acted that way.
So it was okay to be that way. But trying
to survive law school was not easy. And so that's
why I decided to get diagnosed. And once I received
the diagnosis, I shared it with my family. And we
are a very super Christian household and um, we're Caribbean
(29:17):
as well. And so when I shared it with multiple
members of my family, they just told me that it
is an evil spirit and I need to pray it away.
And they'll tell me. When you feel anxious, they'll say,
be anxious about nothing. Or if I tell them about
the procrastination, they'll tell me versus like, do not become
weary in doing good. And so I was just asking like,
(29:39):
how do I, I guess, live with this diagnosis of
ADHD and, um, not feel guilty or feel like something
is wrong with me, like an evil spirit is tormenting
me and I need to rebuke it, like most of
my family members have told me.
S2 (29:57):
Oh, Megan.
S1 (29:57):
So hard, isn't it?
S2 (29:58):
I'm so glad you called. Yeah. I am so glad
you called. I wrote the books for you. Uh, I
am so happy. Um, so let's just be really clear. And, Chris,
I know your heart is there. Megan, you are absolutely loved.
Perfectly and holy for exactly how you're made. And I
want to make that abundantly clear. Um, Chris, do you
(30:21):
want to add anything to that before I go on?
S1 (30:23):
No, no. Well, I was going to say, uh, that
the ADHD will isolate you because you've got all of
these thoughts that are spinning inside. So you're kind of
alone in this world, and then you've got people on
the outside who, for community and family who are supposed to,
you know, be closer to you. And so they're making
you even more isolated by saying you're bad, you know,
(30:46):
or you have an evil spirit there. And, and let's,
let's look at their life too, because this is how
they've been tried to put things in, you know, into
the compartments of their life. And then you just say
this verse and you believe this, and then you go on.
So it's like, I understand both sides of it, but
I'm we have made it here in front of us.
So what do you say to her?
S2 (31:06):
Yeah. Thank you for adding that. So first of all,
ADHD is a neurological difference. And I'll never forget the
day I was driving down the road. And I was
praying because I usually pray in the car because sitting
and doing devotions sounds really well. It sounds hard for me.
And so, um, I made a deal with God that
(31:27):
I'm just constantly praying. It's a constant open communication. I'll
never forget I was driving down the road, praying and
thinking and just saying, God, why is my brain this way?
And I still remember the moment where I realized God
never made a mistake. It's I have a neurological difference.
(31:48):
Just like I have blue eyes. God's like. That's a
characteristic of you. There's nothing wrong. It's a difference. And,
you know, I was like, yeah, but, you know, I
have this propensity for shame. Well that's okay. Let's grow
out of it together. Let's do this. And so I
want to encourage you, um, your brain is kind of
(32:10):
it has a bend to, um, procrastinate. Has it been
to have anxiety because you use it like gasoline, right?
You try to start a fire in your head so
that you'll know how to do something. So it's a
neurological difference. God did not make a mistake. Um, and
by the way, we would not say to pray away
(32:32):
like other things that people can see. Um, somehow, if
it's cognitive, people tend to go, well, I think I
think you're just making this up. So before we go on,
I want to take a moment and say you were
diagnosed your third year of law school. Do you understand
how smart you had to be? And I'm really serious
(32:55):
about this. You had limited access to your prefrontal cortex.
In other words, you're super bad at structuring activities. Short
term memories compromised. All these things are compromised. And you
didn't get diagnosed until third year of law school, which
means you had to do at your smart cookie, and
(33:17):
we have to. We have to understand, like, wow. Good.
Good on you. You did this, so that's fantastic. Oh,
but now I want you to understand that you can
get stronger in some things, but we can learn to
accept others. Um, I personally, um, pray about my anxiety
because I don't want to live in that state. Um,
(33:39):
but it's not. God, take this away. It's. Hey, God,
I'm using anxiety again. Um, to do this and this
and this. And it sounds like you've read some books on, um, ADHD,
so you know this. And so it's a discussion. It's like,
what do you want me to learn from this and
can I is there anything for me to learn. And
(34:00):
so I'm not trying to pray it away. Um, I'm
trying God knows that I have a neurological difference. Um,
I know that your family is doing the best they
know how right now, and, um, they probably have ADHD too,
and they probably feel a lot of shame for how
(34:20):
their brain works. And I know this is a tough ask,
but if when you look at them, you can have
compassion of oh, they don't understand yet, they don't understand.
Instead of internalizing the message of I'm not good enough,
have it. They're not to the place where I am yet,
and that's I have to love and accept them. Well,
(34:43):
you don't have to. It's a decision.
S1 (34:45):
Right?
S2 (34:46):
Um.
S1 (34:47):
Megan, is that you can love them in the middle
of it. Yeah. So, Megan, what do you say to that?
S5 (34:55):
Yeah. Thank you. That definitely makes sense, because I've always
taught my mom how to do. And I told her that,
and she just always told me that's a bad spirit.
Rebuke it in the name of Jesus. And so I'm like, well,
I kind of like that my brain can do a
million things at once. And so I don't want that
to stop. Like I call myself the mega of all trades.
(35:15):
But then I feel bad for it because I'm like,
maybe I shouldn't be able to do that. And, um,
and so it's just really I walk around thinking like,
is there an evil spirit, like whispering negative things to me?
Do I need to rebuke every single time I'm like
on overdrive and all the times I'm not on overdrive?
And so it's really like thought about spirit following me
(35:36):
that's really been bothering me ever since I've been diagnosed.
But that doesn't make sense. So thank you.
S2 (35:42):
Yeah. Well, Megan, of all trades, first of all, I
love that, um, you're gifted in so many areas, and
I want you. I want you to really look at.
I truly believe God looks at us and rejoices. He
loves his creation. And he didn't make a mistake. He
made Meg of all trades. So he's looking at you going,
you go, girl. You go, oh yeah, right. You did
(36:04):
procrastinate there. But you know what? You're nailing a lot
of things. And procrastination is mostly a modern thing anyway.
I didn't make that one up. So he's cheering for
you and he loves you. And so I want you
to kind of not not be kind of down on
yourself as you're going through. But do understand there are pitfalls.
(36:24):
And I wrote about this in the first book where
our brain kind of wants to fall into some pitfalls,
like anger. We'll use anger to motivate ourselves. Well, spiritually
that's not good for us. And so we do want
to work on it because spiritually, that's not a great
practice right now. God can still he still sees us.
(36:45):
He loves us. But he's like, wow, if you could
do that without anger, Meg, that'd be super. But I'm
still walking with you every step of the way.
S1 (36:54):
I find it interesting that she's, you know, in her
early 30s, in his diagnosed. And I see some folks
on Facebook who are saying thank you for talking about this.
I only recently got diagnosed. I'm in my 50s. And
then another who says, I'm 73. I've lived with this
my whole life. Staying on task has got to be
(37:15):
the most difficult thing to deal with. I just bounce
from one thing to another, rarely finishing what I started
to do in one attempt. So folks are getting exactly
what we're talking about today. And if you go to
the website Chris fabry.org, you'll see our featured resource, you,
me and our ADHD Family Practical Steps to Cultivate Healthy Relationships.
(37:39):
Doctor Tamara Rozier is with us today. You can find
out more about her at Chris. More of your calls
straight ahead on Moody Radio. Doctor Tamara Rozier is with
(38:05):
us today. She's written the book, Your Brain's Not Broken.
And then her latest is you, me, and our ADHD family.
Practical steps to cultivate healthy relationships might be just what
you need. And it looks like from what I'm seeing
with the phone lines today and our Facebook page, that
this is hitting a nerve with people. And here's Kelly
(38:26):
in Tennessee. Hi, Kelly. Go right ahead.
S6 (38:30):
Hi. How are you both doing?
S1 (38:32):
Great.
S2 (38:32):
Thank you. Thanks, Kelly.
S6 (38:34):
Good. Good. I'm. I am not one who has ADHD,
but I teach a classroom that has 24 of them.
And so I guess my question is this. How can
this be applied in an educational setting? What can a
teacher do to. Because I love I tell my kids
this all the time, I love you just the way
(38:56):
you are, but I also love you too much to
leave you that way. And I think that it it
would be a great help to know how this could
apply to a classroom.
S2 (39:08):
Yeah, I love it. And I love that there's teachers
out there like you. That's fantastic. Uh, so a couple things, Kelly. Uh, uh,
I'd love for you to remember that those of us
with ADHD have a different sort of nervous system. And
what that means is our nervous system looks for novelty. Um,
(39:29):
something new, something interesting. Um. Excuse me. And so we
love solving problems. So if you want to keep us engaged. Um,
not the novelty can always be there, but we love
problem solving. Every ADHD person, if you're like, wow, this
is a problem. Their brain just kind of clicks in
(39:49):
and goes, well, let me think about it, about this.
So problem solving in your classroom, um, hands on experiments
is great. Um, I would also recommend, um, learning about
divergent versus convergent thinking. Divergent thinking is what those of
us with ADHD do with just very naturally. And it's
(40:10):
highly creative. It's coloring outside the lines. Convergent thinking is, um,
very kind of there's you go from A to B
to C to D and it Kelly that's probably how
you think. And so if you can create a classroom
where you teach your kiddos like hey, now it's time
for divergent thinking, let's let's be creative. Let's use those
(40:32):
creative brains. Oops. Now it's time for convergent. We have
to slow down the thinking. We have to go from
point A to point B, and teaching your kiddos how
to kind of manage their brains will help.
S1 (40:47):
Mhm. You said in another interview that I saw the
the idea of do I look normal to you? Am
I normal to you. There's this constant need for it's
not validation. There's something else. But if you've got a
classroom of kids that are feeling that, you know, am
(41:08):
I normal? They're crying out for that. Um, that that
can be really hard to meet all of those different needs. Right?
S2 (41:16):
Oh, wow. Chris, you just brought up something really important.
So our reward system is pretty clear. If you praise us,
we'll walk through fire for you. Um, I was a
high school teacher, and I was, you know, so wet
behind the ears. I didn't know much about ADHD, didn't
know I had it at the time, but I knew
if I loved my students deeply and helped meet the
(41:40):
needs that they're expressing, that would cover a lot of things.
And I that is so important for the ADHD nervous system.
It's important for all humans, but for us to feel
safe and loved completely is so important. Which, Kelly, it
sounds like you are already doing that.
S1 (41:59):
Yeah. Kelly, thank you for calling. Thanks for your work
with those kids. What is a smartphone do Tamara to
the to a child with ADHD or an adult with ADHD.
S2 (42:10):
Oh, heavens. You know, we fall down huge rabbit holes.
It's a time suck. Um, it's not great. Uh, I
worry about, uh, younger parents who are staring at their phones. Um,
and we're teaching to stare at the phone instead of, um,
talking with each other. So, um, I coach people to
(42:32):
put timers on their phones to let them know. Hey,
you've been on on TikTok for this this long? Uh,
do you want to shut off this alarm, or do
you want to walk away and do something? So it's.
iPhones are wonderful. I, I use it to set timers.
I use it to find information. It's a wonderful tool
that those of us with ADHD can be incredibly distracted from.
(42:57):
So it's just another tool that we have got to
use better.
S1 (43:02):
Scott is in Florida. Scott. Real quickly, tell me why
you called today.
S7 (43:07):
Hi. Yeah. Um, thank you very much for taking my call,
I appreciate it. Uh, so ADHD saved my life. Uh,
I grew up with it in the 80s. Nobody knew
what it was. I was put on all kinds of medication.
I thought I was broken. I tried to commit suicide
numerous times. Um, my parents didn't know what to do
(43:30):
with me. They. I remember going through brain scans. I
went through all these different things when I found out
about the Lord, and I found out that he was real,
I said, you created me this way. So teach me
who I am, because nobody seems to figure it out.
So if you created me this way, then you must
know how my brain works. So he started walking me
(43:53):
through a many, many year process of teaching me how
my brain works. That when somebody is teaching me from
a classroom. I can envision what they're teaching me because
I'm a hands on type person. I can I can
envision what they're teaching me, and I can learn what
they're saying by translating it in my brain in a
(44:14):
certain way so that I can understand. And and he
he started teaching me how to focus on certain things,
because a lot one of the superpowers of somebody with
ADHD is they they can hyper focus in on things.
So I would hyper focus in on certain things that
were not good for me. He taught me how to
to dial that focus in, and most of the time
(44:35):
you just dial it in on him. If I can
dial it in on him, if I can dial it
in on his word, dial it in on the things
that he's teaching me, then I can move in a way,
in this world that is good. And so to make
a long story short, um, it was a long process
of God teaching me about myself. And now I'm at
(44:56):
the point where I'm a single father of three young
kids I can operate, you know, with them. Sometimes it's
hard when the house is dirty and I'm like, where
do I start? Okay. God, you told me to do
one room at a time. Just focus on one room
at a time to clean the house and take care
of my kids and make sure that everybody is taken
(45:17):
care of in the house.
S1 (45:18):
You've described exactly, Scott. What what we've been talking about
this whole hour and how I began the program with you, Tamara,
that it's not something you're you're not broken. It's not
something you just get over. You learn to live well
with what? What you've been diagnosed with and allow God
access there. So I see a lot, of lot of
hope in Scott's story for somebody else who's asking those
(45:41):
hard questions, don't you?
S2 (45:43):
Oh, absolutely. And I can tell he's going to make
an ADHD friendly home for his kids. Yes. So that
they don't have to go through the same stuff he
does that he did.
S1 (45:53):
Scott, thank you so much. Uh, this has just flown by. Tamara,
thank you for your expertise here. I have other folks
who are asking some really good questions, so we'll we'll
come back to this at some point and have you back. Okay.
S2 (46:07):
Oh, I would love to. Thank you so much.
S1 (46:09):
If you go to our website you will see that
featured resource by Doctor Rozier. You me and our ADHD family.
And don't forget the subtitle Practical Steps to Cultivate Healthy Relationships.
That's really what we want. No matter what's going on
in your family, you want to cultivate a healthy relationship.
(46:30):
And my guess is this is encouraged. Somebody today maybe you.
God bless you, friend, as you're walking through this. And
if you were encouraged, reach out to us. Go to
the website. You can see different ways to get in
touch with us. Chris Fabry. Our program is a production
of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks
(46:53):
for listening.
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