Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome back to the
two fish podcast.
My name is Nick, I'm Aaron andthis week we go back to first
Thessalonians, chapter two,where Paul remembers his first
trip.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
That's right, two
fish community.
We are staying in the book offirst Thessalonians.
Last week we did chapter one,which was Paul's encouragement
to them of how good they'redoing and how God has chosen
them and the numerous thingsthat they are doing that are
(00:37):
good.
And this week Paul's going toremind them of some things from
his first visit.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yeah, definitely a
weak sauce in it intro there,
but he's remembering andrecounting his first time and
the good things that happenedfrom the story.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Do we want to redo it
?
Speaker 1 (00:54):
No, it's fine, it's
fine, it's the third time's a
charm, you know.
So let's get right into it.
First, thessalonians, chaptertwo.
For you yourselves know,brothers that are coming to you,
was not in vain, but though wehad already suffered and been
shamefully treated at Philippi,as you know, we had boldness in
our God to declare to you thegospel of God in the midst of
(01:17):
this conflict, for our appealdoes not spring from error or
impurity or any attempt todeceive, but just as we have
been approved by God to beentrusted with the gospel, so we
speak not to please men, but toplease God, who tests our
hearts.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I'm just offended.
You called my intro weak sauce.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
No, my intro.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Oh, it's rude.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
No, not you.
Are you serious?
No, my intro.
So, right there, what he's kindof doing is he's throwing it
back.
You know, hey, first chapter,you guys were faithful.
You've been an example.
I want to encourage you.
Why is that?
Let's look back at our my firstvisit, and I don't think he's
doing this to say, well, when Iwas there, the reason you guys
(02:00):
are so good and so faithful isbecause when I was there, I did
so good and we're going to seehere that's not the case.
That's not what he's saying,but I think he's pointing to the
reason why, hey, you guys aredoing so well from the
foundation when we walked in.
This is why you guys are doingso well.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, he actually
points to the fact he probably
came in there a little beat up,a little discouraged from the
way he was treated in Philippi.
And then he points to yet ourGod gave us the courage to
declare his good news to youboldly.
Paul knows he came into theirterritory beat up and
discouraged from where he was,and the only way he was able to
(02:39):
deliver that message was withGod's grace and God's help?
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, I think of.
I mean just anytime you dosomething or you say something
or you speak from a ton ofpeople and you don't get a good
response or you get backlash forwhat you've said or what you've
done.
It's discouraging then to turnaround and do it again and so,
like you said, this had to beenGod or the fact that, how
dedicated I mean maybe this is apoint of reflection how
(03:06):
dedicated Paul is to God thathe's willing to say and we all
aren't always able to do this.
In Paul's case, he probably gotbeaten, thrown in jail.
Paul's thrown in jail all thetime.
I'm still going to do it Allright, kick the shirt, kick the
dirt off my shoes.
Moving on the next city, we'regoing to start all over and do
it all over again.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah, the second half
of that verse there is, even
though we were surrounded bymany who opposed us, right.
And then verse three.
So you can see that we were notpreaching with any deceit or
impure purposes or trickery.
Like Paul walked in there, hewas already beat up and he's
already surrounded by a bunch ofpeople that don't believe in
(03:46):
what he's doing and he's stillstanding before them preaching
boldly.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah, the good news
and I think something about that
you just said there, I thinkpoints to the validation of the
gospel that he's preaching.
Most people, when they're doingsomething, let's say you're
lying, you're only going to takethat lie so far, and then at
some point, when Paul's gettingbeaten, he's going to say all
right, fine, I was joking.
(04:12):
Enough of this, enough of this,I was lying, I was just playing
, I don't actually believe this.
I'm moving on and getting outof there just to save himself.
Last week we talked aboutsuffering a little bit.
I think you said it.
I don't remember how exactlyyou said it, but sometimes the
thought of the suffering isworse than the suffering itself,
something like that.
But Paul goes in, accepts thesuffering and then continues to
(04:36):
preach about it because it'strue and he believes it, and I
think that's where you get the.
We're not preaching withimpurity or any attempt to
deceive.
This is true, yeah.
We're willing to take a beatingfor this.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
I think the other
thing, like if it was a lie,
like people would have been ableto quickly discredit them.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
I just didn't.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I hasn't Proven to be
true in history, yet which
again thinking about being beatup for preaching the gospel.
He's willing to do this becausehe's not doing it for man.
He's not doing it to please man, says in verse four.
There we speak not to pleasemen, but to please God, who
tests our hearts.
They're doing this becauseGod's asked them to do this and
they're being obedient to it.
(05:18):
They're not doing it and we can.
I mean, this could be a rabbithole we could get down if we
want to how many people onFacebook or Instagram or Tik Tok
or Churches, pastors frompulpits that are not necessarily
doing it for God?
They're doing it as a show andthey're worried about what
people think, and they'rewilling to sometimes skip over
scripture Because it doesn'tsound good or it goes against
(05:40):
the current culture and theydon't want to ruffle feathers.
Well, they're not doing it,then, for God.
They're doing it for me.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, I mean Verse
four definitely speaks directly
to that is mine reads, becauseI'm in the ni?
Nlt version this week.
For we speak as messengers whohave been approved by God to be
entrusted with the good news.
Paul's that's a bold statementin itself.
Like I'm a messenger, I've beenapproved by God and I am
(06:07):
sharing his good news.
Like I'm not sharing my owngood news.
Like there's been some greatthings that happen in Paul's
life and I think he spends verylittle time on that.
When you look at theaccumulation of his letters you
do not necessarily learn a lotabout what Directly happened to
(06:28):
Paul and all the good things hesaw.
Like this letter he's writingback to the Thessalonians and
and encouraged them to look attheir own walk.
He's not saying, look at mywalk and look what God's done
through my life, look what he'sdid in your community.
Yeah, like I think we we see inPaul's letter there's not a lot
(06:49):
of Selfish.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Endowment.
Well, I think, the times thathe does say, hey, this happened
to us here, he says been trained, flee, shamefully treated at
Philippi, as you know.
But then he flips it and hesays we have boldness to declare
God's gospel, which then Ithink that points to you what
you said to it's not his story,it's not Paul's story, it's
God's gospel, not Paul's gospel.
(07:12):
It's God's gospel that he'spraying.
But yes, he always, when hedoes say, hey, this has happened
to me, he flips it and says butGod did this through that.
And he always continues topoint it to God.
And I think that's again wherehe's not.
He's not necessarily worryingabout what people think.
He's not doing it as a show.
He's not doing it to gain cloutor to look at me.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
He's doing it because
he's been called by God to do
it Right, which leads perfectlyinto verse 5 without without
even reading it right.
Never once did we try to winyou with flattery, as you know
very well and God is our witnessthat we are not just pretending
to be your friends so you wouldgive us money.
As for praise, we have neverasked for it from you or anyone
(08:00):
else.
As Apostles of Christ, wecertainly had a right to make
some demands of you, but we wereas gentle among you as a mother
Feeding and caring for her ownchildren.
We loved you so much that wegave you not only God's good
news but our own lives too.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Right there he's
saying, he's laying it down for
them, like I'm laying down Notonly the good news, but I'm
willing to lay down my life foryou and I think probably
culturally.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Again, we talked in
first-estilings.
This was a Community thatworshiped idols.
There were probably a lot ofpeople Maybe I don't know what
would the right word be butmonks or whatever from those
gods who came into thesecommunities and communities and
say, hey, I'm from God, x, y andZ, you need to show me respect,
(08:53):
I want your gold.
Or I want and take advantage ofpeople.
And Paul's here saying, hey,remember, we came in and didn't
ask for anything.
We could have Were apostles ofChrist, we could have made
demands.
That's not why we're here.
That would have pointed towardsus and that's not what we're
doing here.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah, that's just
reminds me.
I recently went to a servicejust to go to something
different and Right beforetithing, like you were, you were
told if you gave a hundreddollars you would receive some
gifts and then if you gave athousand dollars, you basically
got a trophy.
(09:31):
Like so when you read somethinglike this and Paul's like I'm
not doing this for my personalgain, like I don't want your
money, I don't want youranything, I want you to receive
salvation from Jesus Christ.
But I reflect on that when I goto.
When I went to that, I'm like,really, that's how we're gonna
(09:52):
open up tithing.
Like, if I give you a hardbucks, I get a book and a
calendar.
Yeah, I give a thousand, I geta trophy and the books in the
calendar.
Like sign me up, right, butyeah, what the way we present
the good news matters, are we,are we doing it for own personal
gain?
Are we doing it to gain Tofurther the kingdom of God?
(10:12):
Yeah, are we kingdom buildingor are we Aaron building?
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah, I that example
you give of that church, which
is a pretty large church.
Maybe people know that church.
But the fact that they'rebringing you into tithes and
offerings, which is a Givingback, it's a giving back.
Whether it's tithes orofferings, you're giving back to
God.
I think let's back up here toverse 4.
(10:38):
Again he's saying we cameapproved by God and trusted with
the gospel.
So we speak not to please manbut to please God, who tests our
hearts.
And I think that's one of thoseplaces where hey, paul saying,
hey, we went through trials atPhilippi, we were probably
beaten, we were thrown in prison.
There was, it was a mess.
We did it for God, because weknow that going through those
(10:58):
things Tests our hearts and it'sgonna pull out.
It's kind of like Taking aprecious metal and melting it
down and the impurities come outand then can scrape them off.
And it's more God's testallowing us to go through trials
to test Our hearts.
And so when you say that, it'slike, what is the heart of that?
Yeah am I giving?
Yeah, I'm giving an offeringtoday because I just want to
(11:21):
give, or I feel called to give,or I Feel I need, I want to
bless, I want to whatever theheart thing is, or is it?
Oh sweet, I just give 200 moredollars than I normally would.
I could get that trophy.
The heart of that is so wrong.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
You know, maybe there
was some other purpose behind
that.
That cuz I don't regularlyattend that church, but like
sitting there as a guest I'mlike huh.
Like we're tight, we're tyinggifts into tithing.
Yeah, like if I tie that I geta gift.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
It's not really the
point of the giving right and
that I'm.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
So that was just
something that, as I've read
this earlier, like that came tomind for me is man?
What was the intent behinddoing that?
What is the heart?
Check?
Yeah to that.
Are they?
Are they guarding their hearts,like the bible, time over time,
tells us to guard our heartsand our hearts desires can lead
(12:18):
us Really astray.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Unl.
He says we could have madedemands as apostles of Christ
verse 7, but we were.
We came gentle among you, likenursing mothers Taking care of
her own children.
They came in and and again.
Maybe this is why paul talkedabout last week.
He doesn't open this with openthis weather letter with I'm a
possible of god.
I got authority here.
He's very much with hiscommunity seems to be going.
(12:42):
I mean, I, you're my ownchildren.
Yeah, like I want to nurtureyou into this faith.
I want to.
I want to love you and takecare of you in this and watch
over you.
It's not about me as a mother,it's about my children.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yeah, I want to.
I want to love you like Jesusloved me, and that that's what
he's trying to simplify, right,like Jesus didn't demand
anything out of anybody he couldhave, he had all the power in
the world and and paul, I'mquite possibly similar he's
walking into the believers withstatus.
I'm paul, I'm on a parcel.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Give me a hundred
bucks, yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
I mean, he was a
roman authority too, right I?
Speaker 1 (13:24):
don't point out.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
He's a Pharisee, so,
like he's got some clout behind
him, he probably could walk intothe, into some of these
communities and Put his footdown and say this is who I am,
this is what I need, this iswhat I want.
But he's doing quite theopposite of probably what he
used to do and he's walking intothese communities very humble
and saying what do you need?
(13:45):
And he might not have a room tostay in, he might not have his
next meal lined up.
He's showing up and saying nick,what can I do for you?
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah, I want to.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
I want to love on you
like christ loved on me.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, they're at the
end of verse eight.
Not only would he come with thegospel, god, but we also came
with our own selves, because hehad become very dear to us.
And I think that immediatelyrolls into verse nine.
For you remember, brothers arelabor and they're not only
serving to God, but they'rewalking in these communities,
like you just said, and sayingwhat can I do for you, how can I
(14:19):
love you?
and then maybe that's- wherethat Love God and love your
neighbor comes in.
Oh yeah, that's another example.
Hey, I'm coming here, I'mpreaching this, but I also want
to walk beside you.
How can I love?
I'm giving myself Immediatelyrolls into verse nine for you.
Remember, brothers are laborand toil.
We worked night and day that wemight not be a burden to any of
(14:40):
you while proclaiming to youthe gospel of God.
Again, they're not coming insaying, hey, look at who we are
Provided for us and we'll showyou the gospel.
They're saying we're gonna showyou the gospel and we're gonna
go.
I think paul was a temp maker.
We're gonna go make tents onthe side.
You guys can buy them if youwant, or whatever we're doing,
but we're gonna work to feedourselves, house ourselves while
(15:04):
we're here, so that we're not aburden to you guys.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I think at this point
we're verse nine here and you
could make the strong assumptionthat obviously there's a group
of people out there trying todiscredit Paul, like he's coming
into your community forpersonal gain.
It has nothing to do with Godand Paul's second chapter of the
letter, this continual letter,likely right, but the second
(15:30):
chapter he's like.
No, that's not why I came.
You saw me doing the labor toearn my own wage.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
And I was sharing the
good news.
I did not come in as a burdenon your back, did not come in
and say I need 10%, of your 10%so that I can do my ministry.
I came in and I worked for whatI needed, while sharing the
good news with you.
And clearly there's somebodyout there saying that's not why
he's here.
(15:58):
He's here to sell us 10.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Yeah, verse 10, you
were witnesses and God also how
holy and righteous and blamelessour conduct was towards you
believers.
For you know how, like a fatherwith his children, we exhorted
each one of you and encouragedyou and charged you to walk in a
man or worthy of God who callsyou into his own kingdom.
That first part there, yourwitnesses of how holy and
(16:21):
righteous and blameless we werewhen we came in here.
Like there's people saying weweren't.
There's people saying we'retaking advantage.
Yeah, but you remember how wecame in.
It was not about us.
We were not burdens we did nottake from you guys.
All we wanted to do was give inthe gospel and in your
community.
And I like how he says thatthere, like fathers with his
children, we exhorted each oneof you and had encouraged and
(16:44):
encouraged you and charged youto walk in a man or worthy of
God.
Like before he says I'm hate,I'm like your mother and I'm
nurturing and I'm taking care of, and here he's saying, hey,
more like a father figure, Iexhort you, but I also want to
encourage you and charge you towalk the correct way.
There's probably somediscipline and some hey, we need
(17:04):
to look at what you're doinghere and we need to change this.
So he's he's very much saying,hey, we came in to do both the
mother and nurture and thefather to we're going to.
It's like you don't raisechildren to be children, you
raise children to be adults, andso while we nurture, we all we
also want to point you in theright direction.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Now, like if you look
at children, like they're born.
Our preacher just preached onthis.
Like you're born corrupt Like akid, is selfish by by design
Like you're.
I don't want to say you're evil, but like we're born with
original sin.
Yeah, and and Paul's saying wegot to correct that.
(17:44):
Maybe you guys didn't see it,but I'm showing it to you.
And that is what a father doesMother nurtures, and a father
gives some corrections, someweapons.
And then verse 13, and we willnever stop thanking God that
when we preached his message toyou, you didn't think of the
words we spoke as being just ourown.
You accepted what we said asthe very word of God, which of
(18:10):
course it was, and this wordcontinues to work in you who
believe.
And then, dear brothers andsisters, you suffered
persecution from your owncountrymen and this way, in this
way, you imitated the believersand God's churches and Judea
who, because of their belief inChrist Jesus, suffered from
(18:34):
their own people the Jews?
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yeah, these
Cesslonians are mostly Gentiles.
They're not Jewish people.
I'm sure there are Jews withinthe community, but yeah the
majority of Paul's ministry wasto the Gentiles right.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Paul went to the
Gentiles and Peter went to the
Jews.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
But the Jews didn't
believe that Jesus was a Messiah
.
Some of them still don'tbelieve Jesus was a Messiah to
this day.
And so, as Paul and Silas andand even Peter over in Jerusalem
are preaching the gospel, theseJews are saying no, no, no,
this isn't right.
And look what they did to Jesuswhen he came himself doing this
(19:14):
stuff.
They punched him, they floggedhim, they beat him.
And Peter saying hey, I rememberthe way we came and you turned
and I've seen your persecutionand you've imitated Mine, says,
imitated me, in that you'veAccepted those own things.
He says not only have you by,we've seen you partake in the
gospel and you've accepted that,but you've also accepted, like
(19:36):
you said, become imitators andyou've accepted the punishment
and the and the persecution thatcomes along with it.
See, what I like is, every timeJesus go, or Paul goes to one
of these communities, or Petergoes to these communities and
People accept Christ, they startbeing persecuted, whether it's
by the Romans or there's by theJews, no matter what it is.
(19:57):
That's kind of comes along withthe territory.
Jesus says you're gonna sufferlike I've suffered, some to the
extreme.
Peter, paul, you guys are gonnabe murdered For faith in me,
just as I was, and that makes mealways think about nowadays,
life is so much different, butin the same way it's kind of the
same and it makes me wonder.
As Westerners, as Christians, wehave these, we have we go to
(20:22):
church on Sunday morning forhour and a half or whatever it
is.
It's a nice, easy pews and wego home and we don't suffer at
all for Jesus.
I think as far as the podcastgoes.
One time we put up Facebook aPost who is Jesus?
Because we were getting readyto do that episode and we got
(20:43):
responses like he's a liar, he'sfake, what?
And I remember being like, ohmy gosh, yeah, what did I do to
you?
And then I thought, well, youknow, that probably comes with
the territory.
And then I laughed at myself,thinking you think this is
persecution or something.
People are mocking me onFacebook.
Who cares?
These guys are actually beingpersecuted for that.
And he's saying you're becomingimitators.
(21:04):
And again he's praising them.
This is what it's supposed tolook like.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Francis Chan, I
believe, did a lot of ministry
over in China and he said youknow they hold Secret church
because if they get caughtthey're likely their family and
them are gonna be persecuted.
He said and and like you'resaying here, we have the
freedoms to do it.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
We might get like
verbal attacks, but it's not
actual Persecution the end of 14there says for you suffered the
same things for your owncountrymen as they did from the
Jews first 15 who killed that,both the Lord Jesus and the
prophets, and drove us out anddispleased God and opposed all
mankind by hindering us fromspeaking to the Gentiles that
(21:49):
they might be saved, so, asalways, to fill up the measure
of their sins.
But wrath has come upon them atlast.
I think we kind of got ahead ofourselves there.
You're gonna go through thesame things.
Look at Jesus and the prophets.
We were driven out, we werepersecuted.
Jesus paid the ultimate priceand gave his life, also that we
wouldn't preach this gospel.
(22:10):
And then he gives a warning.
So and he kind of gives awarning there at the end then.
But Wrath has come upon them atlast, like they're gonna get
what they deserve forpersecuting Christian.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
To me, someone of the
funny thing in this last part
of that section is Paul.
Paul's preaching to theGentiles so they might be saved,
and that's what they're tryingto stop them from.
Right, like they don't wantthese other people, like there's
not room for For everybody upin heaven, right, they don't
want them to receive God's word,basically.
And then Paul's like by doingthis they just continue to pile
(22:45):
up their sins.
Yeah like they're continuing tolive in a way that is not godly
and they don't see it, andthey're gonna continue to do
that and they're gonna continueto persecute us and I don't
remember the number of Disciples, but the majority of them were
were persecuted and I think mostof them died for their faith,
became martyrs.
(23:05):
Which isn't going back to yourearlier point, is another
testament to Like.
It wasn't just Paul that livedthis out to the death.
It was the majority of themstood behind what they saw Jesus
did and who Jesus was and thegood news that he shared.
It wasn't just one guy likeliving a lie, there was 12 of
(23:27):
them.
12 of them that that stood upfor it and Could testify to it.
And you look at Luke.
Luke went and Investigated alot of it right and it and it
all matched up you don't.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
you don't die for a
lie, you don't die for something
you don't believe, and I thinkthat's the testament of there's
so many Accounts, even outsideof the Bible, that point towards
the Bible verse 17 here, dearbrothers and sisters, after we
separated from you for a littlewhile, though, our hearts never
left you.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
We tried very hard to
come back because of our
intense longing to see you again.
We wanted very much to come,and I, paul, tried again and
again, but Satan prevented us.
After all, what gives us hopeand joy and what is our proud
reward and crown, it is you.
Yes, you will bring us much joyas we stand together before our
(24:24):
Lord Jesus when he comes backagain for you are pride and joy.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
I think what he's
saying is this is why we do it.
They got called away.
He's tried and tried, can't getthere.
Satan's doing something that'spreventing him to be there.
Obviously, we know he's goingto be thrown in prison over and
over again.
He's going to be beaten overand over again.
What he's looking forward tomost is seeing them there, and
then he even narrows it down andin the last days, when Jesus
(24:50):
finally comes back, we're goingto be so proud, we're going to
be so overjoyed that we're goingto all be there together.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Yeah, I think it
really points to one thing.
I read this was one of Paul'searlier letters and so he was
early in his ministry, right,and he's writing back to them,
encouraging not only them, butwe can see that Paul is very
encouraged by what he saw, thetransformation Like.
He's encouraged by that he saw.
(25:19):
He walked into the city, heshared boldly.
He wasn't a burden on them, butI think we can see that Paul is
very encouraged by what he hasseen.
It's a blessing to him and hesees some fruits of his labor,
which gives him the strength togo to the next prison.
(25:41):
Yeah, it's worth it, it's worthit, Like sometimes when I don't
know if you ever get the chanceto lead somebody to Christ, like
it's very encouraging or be apart of something where you see
that transformation in somebodyis encouraging.
It pushes you to do a littlebit more.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Not only in the
beginning, paul pointed to the
fact that, hey, god showed upfor me, because I got beaten and
bruised and battered andwhatever in Philippi, and God
showed up and lifted me up andencouraged me.
But when I reflect in mymoments of weakness, I reflect
on you guys.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Like I reflect on
what I saw happen with you guys,
and you're a part of that, andwe're going to get the stand
before Jesus together.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah and say well
done, I love it.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
So that's our hope to
fish community that we all get
to stand with Jesus, with you,and then you're going to look at
us and you're going to say welldone to fish community.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
You took the gospel
to the world.
Well done.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
I love it.
I can't say any better.
Thank you for being a part ofthis community and join us next
week here.
Back on the two fish podcast.