June 25, 2024 • 21 mins
Can you afford to neglect your salvation? Explore the profound warning in Hebrews Chapter 2 as we unpack the scripture's call to unwavering diligence in faith. Our new studio setup reflects the transitions we face in our spiritual journeys, underscoring the importance of daily devotionals and regular Bible study to stay anchored in God's truth. We draw intriguing parallels between academic rigor and spiritual practice, emphasizing the reliability of the scriptures, bolstered by firsthand witnesses and Old Testament prophecies.
This episode also tackles the human condition through the lens of Adam and Eve's story, highlighting the significance of Jesus's sacrifice and his temporary state lower than angels. We discuss Jesus's triumph over death, his shared humanity, and his ultimate glorification, reinforcing his dual nature as fully God and fully man. As we anticipate Hebrews Chapter 3, we prepare to delve into the comparison between Jesus and Moses, affirming Jesus's superiority using a blend of Old and New Testament scriptures. Join us for this enriching discussion on these essential teachings and their applications in our daily lives.
This episode also tackles the human condition through the lens of Adam and Eve's story, highlighting the significance of Jesus's sacrifice and his temporary state lower than angels. We discuss Jesus's triumph over death, his shared humanity, and his ultimate glorification, reinforcing his dual nature as fully God and fully man. As we anticipate Hebrews Chapter 3, we prepare to delve into the comparison between Jesus and Moses, affirming Jesus's superiority using a blend of Old and New Testament scriptures. Join us for this enriching discussion on these essential teachings and their applications in our daily lives.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
welcome back to the two fish podcast.
My name is nick, I'm aaron andthis week we're back in hebrews,
chapter two, where we talkabout warning against neglecting
salvation that's right, twofish community.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
We are back.
Uh, we are in a new studio thisweek, uh, with different
equipment set up, so the soundis a little different.
Give us a little bit of graceas we try and figure out the new
settings and the new sound inthe room.
We're dialing it in.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I don't know if we've told that on.
I know we talked about it onfacebook live.
If you missed the live versionand live taping of this, it's
unedited.
It's horrible this week becausewe are in the new studio, but,
for context, I sold a housethat's where our studio was and
so we're now at Aaron's house.
(00:57):
We moved over here and so hegot a little office here and
we're slowly turning it into thepodcast room.
We kicked his wife out of hercraft room and we've taken over.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
No, this was her office.
Oh it was.
Yeah, she's still got a craftroom.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Okay, well, I don't even feel bad now.
So, anyway, if you want, gocheck out Facebook Live.
This week's episode is a littlerough.
You're listening to the editedversion, so make sure you follow
and subscribe, or whatever yougot.
If so, make sure you follow andsubscribe, or whatever you got.
If you have not listened toHebrews, chapter one, go back
and pause this one.
Go back and listen.
Go back and listen to it.
There is a lot of context inchapter one that kind of we
(01:33):
build on Hebrews.
I think we said last week thisis a lot different than any of
some of the other letters thatwe've done and studied through.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, this is definitely different.
The one thing, the one majordifference and I think we need
to keep repeating this is thecontent is more wrote to Jewish
Christians and not to theGentiles.
So the writer of Hebrews, whowe don't know we went well into
depth on that in the lastepisode don't know, but it is
wrote to the Jewish Christians.
(02:02):
So these would be Jewish thathave recently converted to being
christians and this guy isthrowing the hammer at him yeah,
and this guy meaning we don'tactually know who it is.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
There's a lot of speculation again, we're not
going to go into all that.
Go back, listen to hebrewschapter one.
Uh, but today is hebrewschapter two, so let's get right
into it.
Hebrews chapter two, verse one.
Therefore, we must pay muchcloser attention to what we have
heard lest we drift away fromit.
For since the message declaredby angels proved to be reliable
(02:35):
and every transgression ordisobedience received a just
retribution, how shall we escapeif we neglect such a great
salvation?
It was declared at first by theLord and it was attested to us
by those who heard it, while Godalso bore witnesses by signs
and wonders and various miraclesand by gifts of the Holy Spirit
distributed according to hiswill.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Right there, verse 1, he's telling us we've got to
pay attention, We've got to bediligent in our daily activities
so that we don't drift awayfrom God.
So that's you know, doing daily, devos being in the Bible every
day.
Well, jesus told us to go, getin the closet and shut the door,
basically, and get alone withhim, right, so you can look all
(03:22):
throughout the context of theNew Testament especially, and
see ways that you need to stayconnected and things you need to
be doing.
One of them, obviously, listento the Two Fish podcast.
But we need to do those thingsso we don't drift away.
It needs to become one of yourhabits, not just a once in a
while.
Or I show up Sunday and that ismy dedication to Christ.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah, it's like a class in school, college or high
school or even elementaryschool.
You go a year in algebra, youtake a whole summer off.
You don't touch algebra,obviously, because who wants to
do algebra during the summer?
And then you go back your nextyear and you've got to review it
because you don't remember anyof it.
It's important that we payclose attention.
It's a constant.
(04:06):
We talked about this beforesanctification of our salvation.
We have salvation, we'veaccepted Christ as Christ
followers, but we need thatconstant sanctification, that
constant working out oursalvation.
And if we go a long period oftime without diving into it in
this context, the word it'sgoing to be easier and easier
and easier to drift away from itand what it teaches.
(04:29):
Verse number two just verifiesthe writer's verifying, for
since the message declared byangels proved to be reliable and
every transgression ordisobedience received a just
punishment Right there he'ssaying this is reliable because
we have firsthand sources hehimself says later, later also
poor witnesses.
It was attested to us by thosewho heard it.
So it's reliable in the factthat this isn't just made up.
(04:51):
There was a bunch of us whowere there, there was a bunch of
us who heard it.
I would actually speculate thispart.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
This verse two, is speaking to the old testament
and some of the things we readin chapter one where he's
talking about the angels comingand prophesying through Moses or
Aaron or Elijah right, andthose things that he spoke
through the angels to Moses orwhen he spoke to Moses through
(05:19):
the burning, bush and a coupleof other ways.
But those things proved true, Iwould say, is what he's
pointing to in this and you canlook back on those.
You can go to the Old Testamentand you can look at those and
you can look them up and you cango to other history documents
and you can see that they cametrue and those are the things
(05:42):
that happened.
It wasn't just speculation,they were prophesied and that is
what was wrote in history.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Then verse 3 kind of continues.
I think we're going to do a lotof back and forth here.
We're going to get into aPsalms 5 through almost the rest
of the chapter.
Part of a Psalms.
You talked about verse 2 beingOld Testament Now I think verse
3,.
How shall we escape if weignore such a great salvation?
So he's talking about everyviolation of disobedience
receives his just punishment.
(06:11):
Now, in current context, howare we going to get?
We can't escape the same thingif we do not, if we ignore such
a great salvation that we have,that salvation of jesus, this
salvation which was firstannounced by the lord and was
confirmed by those who heard it.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
So we're really mixing in here old testament,
new testament stuff yeah, and Ithink the the really cool thing
is first announced by the lordand has been confirmed by those
that heard him say it.
So the main people in thatwould be his disciples right
yeah, people that Jesusphysically touched and
ministered to.
(06:47):
The apostles, and then youfactor in the people that he
performed miracles on and hetold to go forth and sin no more
.
Right, that would be the peopleI'm thinking of when he's
saying confirmed to us by thosewho heard him, when he's saying
confirmed to us by those whoheard him.
(07:08):
I would also point to this guywas in the circle of the 12.
Yeah, he might not have beenone of the 12, but he was in
that very tight circle and wasamongst them and heard some of
this firsthand, if not directly.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Second, second, hand, yeah, first number.
Moving on, verse number fivereads it is not to angels that
he has subject the world to come, about which we are speaking.
This was for us, this was formankind, this was for humanity,
who was made in the image of God.
Verse number six but there is aplace where someone has
testified, and this is where weroll into the Psalms.
(07:42):
King David writes what ismankind?
That we are mindful of them, ason of man, that you care for
him.
You made him a little lowerthan angels.
You crowned them with glory andhonor and put everything under
their feet.
In putting everything underthem, god left nothing that is
not subject to them.
Yet at present, we do not seeeverything subject to them.
Pause right there.
(08:02):
Here he's talking about mankind.
He's created angels.
Now he's created humans,mankind, to rule and reign over
the earth.
If we study, if we go, if we goto genesis, it talks about how
god created adam and he gave him, and his job was take care of
the earth that I've given you,take care of things there.
Everything is under your, andgod left nothing that was not
(08:25):
subject to them.
Yet at present, we do not seeeverything subject to them.
I think that's part of sin,that's part of the fall of man,
adam and eve sinning, and that'salso, I think, due to the fact
that the second coming hasn'thappened.
We haven't had complete right,we don't.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
We don't get the view .
God has right with that.
I mean, that's kind of wheremine my mind goes.
We don't get the full.
God has right.
I mean, that's kind of where mymind goes.
We don't get the full view ofhow things work and we don't get
the God view because we can'thandle it Like, honestly, we
can't handle a whole heck of alot outside of our own family
(08:59):
circle, right, like you getinvolved in too many things and
we fall apart.
So you take the picture of godand he's controlling everything
down to the smallest atoms ofthe world, and if one atom's out
of place, it all falls apartyeah, I think I guess that's
where my mind goes.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Yeah, points right back, as you're saying that, to
verse one.
Therefore, you need to payclose attention, therefore, so
that we don't drift away.
We are so busy we don't staythere, we can't even stay there.
How are we going to see thewhole thing like God does?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
That's good, verse 9 here.
But we do see Jesus, who wasalso made lower than the angels
for a little while, now crownedwith glory and honor because he
suffered death so that, by thegrace of god, he might taste
death for everyone.
So right there that.
I mean, that is modern day.
Two sentences, right?
(09:54):
Um, we get the pleasure ofseeing jesus to a degree.
We didn't get to walk with him,right, but this writer did.
He got to physically probablysee him, and for that little
little while, while Jesus walkedearth and was fully man but yet
had divine nature in him, hewas lower than the angels.
(10:14):
Now that he came and he died onthe cross and rose again three
days later, he has been crownedwith glory and honor because he
suffered that death for you andI I think that rolls right into
10 and bringing many sons anddaughters to glory.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
It was fitting that god, for whom and through whom
everything exists, should makethe pioneer of their salvation
perfect through what he suffered.
I think that just ties right inso well there.
By the grace of god, he tastesdeath for everyone.
He suffered so that foreverything, for whom and through
whom exists for god.
He's making their salvationperfect through what he suffered
(10:52):
.
Because up up above, it saysagain up towards the top, verse
two and this is old testamentand new testament.
I think here we go again.
Every violation of disobediencereceives a just punishment.
Whatever we do, whatever wasdone in the past old or new it's
it deserves a just punishment.
Moving back forward there,verse 10 it was fitting for whom
(11:13):
and for whom and through whomeverything exists, that the
pioneer of their salvation, theone who, just the one who, made
salvation, should make itperfect through the suffering,
and that is that just punishmentfor us.
So he's created a way out andhe's making it perfect by
suffering the punishment, sothat we don't have to yeah, he
sacrificed the perfect lamb, hisone and only son.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Right and I.
I just had this conversation onmonday night bible study and we
talking about like when we dieand how we get to heaven and
what that might look like.
I'm like and cause where we'reat was we were in Jude and talks
about our judgment and likethere's still a judgment in the
new Testament.
But my example was I sure hope,when I'm judged, that Jesus is
(11:59):
walking right beside me and he'slike, hey, you don't, you don't
have to face what nick isfacing over there.
Nick's in front of him.
Now nick's not gonna be infront of the judge getting
getting the hammer thrown at himfor all the things he did wrong
.
As we walk by the judge, jesusraised his hand and he's like,
hey, I got this one and webypass the courtroom, yeah, and
(12:20):
we go sing holy, holy, holy,right yeah, verse number 11,
both the one who makes peopleholy and those who are made holy
are of the same family.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
So jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers
and sisters.
It's I like that scene youpainted, jesus, is like nope
this one's mine.
Remember that punishment I Itook.
It was for everyone.
Nick here accepted it, aaronhere accepted it, the two fish
community accepted it both.
The one who makes people holyand those who are made holy are
of the same family.
I think that really tying us inas together with Christ,
(12:53):
together with God.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Right, and it says so .
Jesus is not ashamed to callthem brothers and sisters.
Verse 12, he says and again hesays here I am and the children
(13:16):
God has given me.
So, if I understand thatcorrectly, that's basically
saying Jesus is going to wrap usin his arms and walk us in
there and say here are mybrothers and sisters.
These are the ones thataccepted me, just like you said,
the two fish community.
We accept that Jesus Christ wasthe son of God.
He walked the earth as man, hedied on the cross for our sin
(13:37):
and he rose again three dayslater.
And I think verse 14 here isreally good.
It's a reminder, I think, ofwho we are, Since the children
have flesh.
That's us.
We have flesh, we have fleshlydesires, Since the children have
flesh and blood.
He too shared in their humanityso that by his death he might
break the power of him.
(13:58):
Who holds the power of death?
That is the devil.
So right there, Jesus came, andhe's one of us.
He was flesh and blood, justlike you and I, and he broke the
chains of death.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
I think that was necessary.
Well, I know, but I'll say it.
I think it's necessary that Goddid become.
I mean, he's fully God, nomatter what, but he's also fully
man.
He goes through the same thingsthat we went through, the same
temptations the same suffering,if not more so than most of us
here, especially here in america.
We think we're stuff, we'resuffering when we get someone
(14:28):
that tweets about us.
Yeah, we want our cheetos to runout yeah, but god went through
christ went through the samethings and I think, think that
was and went without sin.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
I think that's necessary to be that perfect
lamb.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
You talked about the perfect sacrifice of just
punishment for the justpunishment.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Right, there's no way that any one of us could be the
perfect lamb Like we're goingto have sin.
I have heard of people thatthink they don't sin.
They're like I don't sin at alland that is sin in itself,
lying Right Like the Bible tellsyou, there's no way that you
cannot sin.
(15:06):
And to say that you don't sinis sin, because somewhere in
your flesh you are sinning,whether it be your actions or
perhaps your thoughts.
But we are born sinners, likeyour kids.
Don't kids come out knowing badbehavior?
They don't know the goodbehavior, or sometimes they do,
(15:26):
but oftentimes you're teachingthem things not to do because
they just willingly do it.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah, at the end of that verse says so that he might
break the power of him whoholds the power of death, the
devil.
That is the devil, verse 15.
And free those who are and freethose who all their lives were
held in slavery by the fear ofdeath.
I mean by the fear of thatpunishment, by the fear of
judgment, because we all know Imean there's things in all of
(15:53):
our past that were like man.
If I could only take that backif I actually got what I
deserved.
There's things in all of ourpast that we're like man.
If I could only take that backIf I actually got what I
deserved.
There we have that fear of that.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
And.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
I think by nature we know a judgment's coming,
Whether we're on the wrong endof it or whether we got that
Jesus with us there's going tobe a judgment and there's things
that it's like man.
I wish I could take that back.
I've got a fear of deathbecause of that man, I wish I
could take that back.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
I've got a fear of death because of that.
Yeah, I mean, it's the, thefear of dying and not knowing
what's after.
But when you put your trust inchrist and do your best to
follow him, you you have that tolook forward to and you
shouldn't fear death.
You should fear not dying toyourself, but you should not
fear physical death yeah, I Isaid this.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
I think it's been almost two years now.
I got the opportunity to speakat my grandpa's funeral.
He's a pastor for his wholelife and, um, I haven't just
recently listened to it wasrecorded, it was live streamed
because of um certain situations, but I'm gonna listen back
through there.
And I remember I lost my placein.
(17:01):
I had it printed out and I lostmy place and I remember and I
thought it was funny because I'mlike there's probably people
there don't understand mygrandpa, but didn't understand
because I said I'm not, I'm notsad that my grandpa's died.
And then I lost my place andthere was about a three second
pause till I could find it.
And I think it ain't almost anyfuneral, especially an unsaved
(17:23):
person Like how could you saythat at a funeral, I'm not, I'm
not sad.
My grandpa died and then Icaught my.
I'm super happy for him becauseI know what he's got, where
he's at now, and I know whathe's got now and it's that there
.
There's no, my grandpa had zerofear of death because he knew
it was only so I'm so happy forhim.
He's now in a place with no painand no sorrow.
You know what I'm saying Ithink, there's a lot.
(17:45):
There were probably people inthat room that were like what is
he about to say?
Like I'm not.
There's a hole there and I'msad about that, but I'm not sad
that he's passed right, becauseyou not only do you have that
belief, you knew that, he knewthat he knew that jesus was his
lord and savior.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yeah, so you can.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
You can have that um assurement that he's where he
belonged and it's not verse 16,I mean it's for us for 16, for
surely it is not angels he helps, but ab Abraham's descendants,
which is us.
For this reason he had to bemade like them, saying like us,
fully human in every way, inorder that he might become a
merciful and faithful highpriest in service to God and
(18:28):
then he might make atonement forthe sins of the people.
Because he himself sufferedwhen he was tempted, he able to
help those who are being tempted.
There we kind of skipped aheadthere he lived a life just like
we did.
He just lived without sin.
He was that perfect lamb likeyou talked about.
If you read the old testament,leviticus and all those, there's
a lot of rules.
It's the law that moses washanded, handed by god when you
(18:50):
it was required.
You couldn't just take any lamband you had some goats out here
.
Those were some ugly lookinggoats, right.
You couldn't just bring somerandom goat for a sin that you
committed.
It had to be a pure andblameless lamb or goat to atone
for that sin and that was justforeshadowing, or god already
had planned with jesus.
Jesus had to come fully man,just like us, so that he could
(19:12):
live and be tempted just like us, so that he could live and have
that bridge to perfection.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I think this, uh, this hebrews chapter two is,
first, a great reminder that wegot to pay close attention,
right, it isn't something thatwe can kind of just show up, pop
in and out of, yeah and and dowilly-nilly, right, it is, um,
every day we gotta walk, wake upand die to ourselves and remind
(19:39):
ourselves that jesus is who hesaid he was.
And that's what this hebrewswriter is doing here in chapter
two.
He's telling you that jesuscame.
He's telling the jewishchristians jesus came and he was
fully man and he died for you,and to this day, jewish people
struggle with this belief, right?
(20:00):
So you can go back to this andI think you pointed to this I
don't know if it was last week,but like that struggle, it would
be a struggle.
You're living under the OldTestament and this guy comes
right and flips the script andyou're just supposed to jump on
board.
That would be hard to do, yeah,but as the writer pointed to,
(20:23):
you can be assured of thesethings, because there are
numerous writings out there,both in the bible and you can
even find them outside the biblethat attest that jesus was an
actual man.
They don't agree that he wasson of god, but they attest that
Jesus was an actual man.
They don't agree that he wasson of God, but they attest that
he was a man and the thingsthat happened to him were
(20:45):
factual and the way he died.
And then, if you look at theapostles and the way they died,
there's reassurement in thatbecause it would have been
really easy for them to throwtheir arms up in the air and say
you know what I'm?
I'm done with this stuff.
I'm no longer going to tellthis lie.
Yeah, no one dies for a lie so Ithink, as we reflect on hebrews
(21:08):
, chapter 2 here, that we needto pay attention and we need to
be willing to share that jesusis who he said he was, and then
he came fully man.
And then next week we're goingto dive into chapter three,
where the writer is going totalk about how jesus isn't
greater than moses, or jesus isgreater than moses.
Right, not that he's notgreater than moses, but he is
(21:29):
greater than moses.
So this community is probablystruggling with food.
Well, we know he's.
They're struggling with whojesus is right, because he's
already laid it out in chapter 1.
He's laid it out in chapter 2.
And we can see in the headingsof chapter 3 and 4 that this guy
is just proving who Jesus isand walking us through Scripture
, both old and mixing in some ofthe new right.
(21:50):
So we look forward to next weekin Hebrews, chapter 3.
welcome back to the two fish podcast.
My name is nick, I'm aaron andthis week we're back in hebrews,
chapter two, where we talkabout warning against neglecting
salvation that's right, twofish community.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
We are back.
Uh, we are in a new studio thisweek, uh, with different
equipment set up, so the soundis a little different.
Give us a little bit of graceas we try and figure out the new
settings and the new sound inthe room.
We're dialing it in.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I don't know if we've told that on.
I know we talked about it onfacebook live.
If you missed the live versionand live taping of this, it's
unedited.
It's horrible this week becausewe are in the new studio, but,
for context, I sold a housethat's where our studio was and
so we're now at Aaron's house.
(00:57):
We moved over here and so hegot a little office here and
we're slowly turning it into thepodcast room.
We kicked his wife out of hercraft room and we've taken over.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
No, this was her office.
Oh it was.
Yeah, she's still got a craftroom.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Okay, well, I don't even feel bad now.
So, anyway, if you want, gocheck out Facebook Live.
This week's episode is a littlerough.
You're listening to the editedversion, so make sure you follow
and subscribe, or whatever yougot.
If so, make sure you follow andsubscribe, or whatever you got.
If you have not listened toHebrews, chapter one, go back
and pause this one.
Go back and listen.
Go back and listen to it.
There is a lot of context inchapter one that kind of we
(01:33):
build on Hebrews.
I think we said last week thisis a lot different than any of
some of the other letters thatwe've done and studied through.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, this is definitely different.
The one thing, the one majordifference and I think we need
to keep repeating this is thecontent is more wrote to Jewish
Christians and not to theGentiles.
So the writer of Hebrews, whowe don't know we went well into
depth on that in the lastepisode don't know, but it is
wrote to the Jewish Christians.
(02:02):
So these would be Jewish thathave recently converted to being
christians and this guy isthrowing the hammer at him yeah,
and this guy meaning we don'tactually know who it is.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
There's a lot of speculation again, we're not
going to go into all that.
Go back, listen to hebrewschapter one.
Uh, but today is hebrewschapter two, so let's get right
into it.
Hebrews chapter two, verse one.
Therefore, we must pay muchcloser attention to what we have
heard lest we drift away fromit.
For since the message declaredby angels proved to be reliable
(02:35):
and every transgression ordisobedience received a just
retribution, how shall we escapeif we neglect such a great
salvation?
It was declared at first by theLord and it was attested to us
by those who heard it, while Godalso bore witnesses by signs
and wonders and various miraclesand by gifts of the Holy Spirit
distributed according to hiswill.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Right there, verse 1, he's telling us we've got to
pay attention, We've got to bediligent in our daily activities
so that we don't drift awayfrom God.
So that's you know, doing daily, devos being in the Bible every
day.
Well, jesus told us to go, getin the closet and shut the door,
basically, and get alone withhim, right, so you can look all
(03:22):
throughout the context of theNew Testament especially, and
see ways that you need to stayconnected and things you need to
be doing.
One of them, obviously, listento the Two Fish podcast.
But we need to do those thingsso we don't drift away.
It needs to become one of yourhabits, not just a once in a
while.
Or I show up Sunday and that ismy dedication to Christ.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah, it's like a class in school, college or high
school or even elementaryschool.
You go a year in algebra, youtake a whole summer off.
You don't touch algebra,obviously, because who wants to
do algebra during the summer?
And then you go back your nextyear and you've got to review it
because you don't remember anyof it.
It's important that we payclose attention.
It's a constant.
(04:06):
We talked about this beforesanctification of our salvation.
We have salvation, we'veaccepted Christ as Christ
followers, but we need thatconstant sanctification, that
constant working out oursalvation.
And if we go a long period oftime without diving into it in
this context, the word it'sgoing to be easier and easier
and easier to drift away from itand what it teaches.
(04:29):
Verse number two just verifiesthe writer's verifying, for
since the message declared byangels proved to be reliable and
every transgression ordisobedience received a just
punishment Right there he'ssaying this is reliable because
we have firsthand sources hehimself says later, later also
poor witnesses.
It was attested to us by thosewho heard it.
So it's reliable in the factthat this isn't just made up.
(04:51):
There was a bunch of us whowere there, there was a bunch of
us who heard it.
I would actually speculate thispart.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
This verse two, is speaking to the old testament
and some of the things we readin chapter one where he's
talking about the angels comingand prophesying through Moses or
Aaron or Elijah right, andthose things that he spoke
through the angels to Moses orwhen he spoke to Moses through
(05:19):
the burning, bush and a coupleof other ways.
But those things proved true, Iwould say, is what he's
pointing to in this and you canlook back on those.
You can go to the Old Testamentand you can look at those and
you can look them up and you cango to other history documents
and you can see that they cametrue and those are the things
(05:42):
that happened.
It wasn't just speculation,they were prophesied and that is
what was wrote in history.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Then verse 3 kind of continues.
I think we're going to do a lotof back and forth here.
We're going to get into aPsalms 5 through almost the rest
of the chapter.
Part of a Psalms.
You talked about verse 2 beingOld Testament Now I think verse
3,.
How shall we escape if weignore such a great salvation?
So he's talking about everyviolation of disobedience
receives his just punishment.
(06:11):
Now, in current context, howare we going to get?
We can't escape the same thingif we do not, if we ignore such
a great salvation that we have,that salvation of jesus, this
salvation which was firstannounced by the lord and was
confirmed by those who heard it.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
So we're really mixing in here old testament,
new testament stuff yeah, and Ithink the the really cool thing
is first announced by the lordand has been confirmed by those
that heard him say it.
So the main people in thatwould be his disciples right
yeah, people that Jesusphysically touched and
ministered to.
(06:47):
The apostles, and then youfactor in the people that he
performed miracles on and hetold to go forth and sin no more
.
Right, that would be the peopleI'm thinking of when he's
saying confirmed to us by thosewho heard him, when he's saying
confirmed to us by those whoheard him.
(07:08):
I would also point to this guywas in the circle of the 12.
Yeah, he might not have beenone of the 12, but he was in
that very tight circle and wasamongst them and heard some of
this firsthand, if not directly.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Second, second, hand, yeah, first number.
Moving on, verse number fivereads it is not to angels that
he has subject the world to come, about which we are speaking.
This was for us, this was formankind, this was for humanity,
who was made in the image of God.
Verse number six but there is aplace where someone has
testified, and this is where weroll into the Psalms.
(07:42):
King David writes what ismankind?
That we are mindful of them, ason of man, that you care for
him.
You made him a little lowerthan angels.
You crowned them with glory andhonor and put everything under
their feet.
In putting everything underthem, god left nothing that is
not subject to them.
Yet at present, we do not seeeverything subject to them.
Pause right there.
(08:02):
Here he's talking about mankind.
He's created angels.
Now he's created humans,mankind, to rule and reign over
the earth.
If we study, if we go, if we goto genesis, it talks about how
god created adam and he gave him, and his job was take care of
the earth that I've given you,take care of things there.
Everything is under your, andgod left nothing that was not
(08:25):
subject to them.
Yet at present, we do not seeeverything subject to them.
I think that's part of sin,that's part of the fall of man,
adam and eve sinning, and that'salso, I think, due to the fact
that the second coming hasn'thappened.
We haven't had complete right,we don't.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
We don't get the view .
God has right with that.
I mean, that's kind of wheremine my mind goes.
We don't get the full.
God has right.
I mean, that's kind of where mymind goes.
We don't get the full view ofhow things work and we don't get
the God view because we can'thandle it Like, honestly, we
can't handle a whole heck of alot outside of our own family
(08:59):
circle, right, like you getinvolved in too many things and
we fall apart.
So you take the picture of godand he's controlling everything
down to the smallest atoms ofthe world, and if one atom's out
of place, it all falls apartyeah, I think I guess that's
where my mind goes.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Yeah, points right back, as you're saying that, to
verse one.
Therefore, you need to payclose attention, therefore, so
that we don't drift away.
We are so busy we don't staythere, we can't even stay there.
How are we going to see thewhole thing like God does?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
That's good, verse 9 here.
But we do see Jesus, who wasalso made lower than the angels
for a little while, now crownedwith glory and honor because he
suffered death so that, by thegrace of god, he might taste
death for everyone.
So right there that.
I mean, that is modern day.
Two sentences, right?
(09:54):
Um, we get the pleasure ofseeing jesus to a degree.
We didn't get to walk with him,right, but this writer did.
He got to physically probablysee him, and for that little
little while, while Jesus walkedearth and was fully man but yet
had divine nature in him, hewas lower than the angels.
(10:14):
Now that he came and he died onthe cross and rose again three
days later, he has been crownedwith glory and honor because he
suffered that death for you andI I think that rolls right into
10 and bringing many sons anddaughters to glory.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
It was fitting that god, for whom and through whom
everything exists, should makethe pioneer of their salvation
perfect through what he suffered.
I think that just ties right inso well there.
By the grace of god, he tastesdeath for everyone.
He suffered so that foreverything, for whom and through
whom exists for god.
He's making their salvationperfect through what he suffered
(10:52):
.
Because up up above, it saysagain up towards the top, verse
two and this is old testamentand new testament.
I think here we go again.
Every violation of disobediencereceives a just punishment.
Whatever we do, whatever wasdone in the past old or new it's
it deserves a just punishment.
Moving back forward there,verse 10 it was fitting for whom
(11:13):
and for whom and through whomeverything exists, that the
pioneer of their salvation, theone who, just the one who, made
salvation, should make itperfect through the suffering,
and that is that just punishmentfor us.
So he's created a way out andhe's making it perfect by
suffering the punishment, sothat we don't have to yeah, he
sacrificed the perfect lamb, hisone and only son.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Right and I.
I just had this conversation onmonday night bible study and we
talking about like when we dieand how we get to heaven and
what that might look like.
I'm like and cause where we'reat was we were in Jude and talks
about our judgment and likethere's still a judgment in the
new Testament.
But my example was I sure hope,when I'm judged, that Jesus is
(11:59):
walking right beside me and he'slike, hey, you don't, you don't
have to face what nick isfacing over there.
Nick's in front of him.
Now nick's not gonna be infront of the judge getting
getting the hammer thrown at himfor all the things he did wrong
.
As we walk by the judge, jesusraised his hand and he's like,
hey, I got this one and webypass the courtroom, yeah, and
(12:20):
we go sing holy, holy, holy,right yeah, verse number 11,
both the one who makes peopleholy and those who are made holy
are of the same family.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
So jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers
and sisters.
It's I like that scene youpainted, jesus, is like nope
this one's mine.
Remember that punishment I Itook.
It was for everyone.
Nick here accepted it, aaronhere accepted it, the two fish
community accepted it both.
The one who makes people holyand those who are made holy are
of the same family.
I think that really tying us inas together with Christ,
(12:53):
together with God.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Right, and it says so .
Jesus is not ashamed to callthem brothers and sisters.
Verse 12, he says and again hesays here I am and the children
(13:16):
God has given me.
So, if I understand thatcorrectly, that's basically
saying Jesus is going to wrap usin his arms and walk us in
there and say here are mybrothers and sisters.
These are the ones thataccepted me, just like you said,
the two fish community.
We accept that Jesus Christ wasthe son of God.
He walked the earth as man, hedied on the cross for our sin
(13:37):
and he rose again three dayslater.
And I think verse 14 here isreally good.
It's a reminder, I think, ofwho we are, Since the children
have flesh.
That's us.
We have flesh, we have fleshlydesires, Since the children have
flesh and blood.
He too shared in their humanityso that by his death he might
break the power of him.
(13:58):
Who holds the power of death?
That is the devil.
So right there, Jesus came, andhe's one of us.
He was flesh and blood, justlike you and I, and he broke the
chains of death.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
I think that was necessary.
Well, I know, but I'll say it.
I think it's necessary that Goddid become.
I mean, he's fully God, nomatter what, but he's also fully
man.
He goes through the same thingsthat we went through, the same
temptations the same suffering,if not more so than most of us
here, especially here in america.
We think we're stuff, we'resuffering when we get someone
(14:28):
that tweets about us.
Yeah, we want our cheetos to runout yeah, but god went through
christ went through the samethings and I think, think that
was and went without sin.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
I think that's necessary to be that perfect
lamb.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
You talked about the perfect sacrifice of just
punishment for the justpunishment.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Right, there's no way that any one of us could be the
perfect lamb Like we're goingto have sin.
I have heard of people thatthink they don't sin.
They're like I don't sin at alland that is sin in itself,
lying Right Like the Bible tellsyou, there's no way that you
cannot sin.
(15:06):
And to say that you don't sinis sin, because somewhere in
your flesh you are sinning,whether it be your actions or
perhaps your thoughts.
But we are born sinners, likeyour kids.
Don't kids come out knowing badbehavior?
They don't know the goodbehavior, or sometimes they do,
(15:26):
but oftentimes you're teachingthem things not to do because
they just willingly do it.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah, at the end of that verse says so that he might
break the power of him whoholds the power of death, the
devil.
That is the devil, verse 15.
And free those who are and freethose who all their lives were
held in slavery by the fear ofdeath.
I mean by the fear of thatpunishment, by the fear of
judgment, because we all know Imean there's things in all of
(15:53):
our past that were like man.
If I could only take that backif I actually got what I
deserved.
There's things in all of ourpast that we're like man.
If I could only take that backIf I actually got what I
deserved.
There we have that fear of that.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
And.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
I think by nature we know a judgment's coming,
Whether we're on the wrong endof it or whether we got that
Jesus with us there's going tobe a judgment and there's things
that it's like man.
I wish I could take that back.
I've got a fear of deathbecause of that man, I wish I
could take that back.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
I've got a fear of death because of that.
Yeah, I mean, it's the, thefear of dying and not knowing
what's after.
But when you put your trust inchrist and do your best to
follow him, you you have that tolook forward to and you
shouldn't fear death.
You should fear not dying toyourself, but you should not
fear physical death yeah, I Isaid this.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
I think it's been almost two years now.
I got the opportunity to speakat my grandpa's funeral.
He's a pastor for his wholelife and, um, I haven't just
recently listened to it wasrecorded, it was live streamed
because of um certain situations, but I'm gonna listen back
through there.
And I remember I lost my placein.
(17:01):
I had it printed out and I lostmy place and I remember and I
thought it was funny because I'mlike there's probably people
there don't understand mygrandpa, but didn't understand
because I said I'm not, I'm notsad that my grandpa's died.
And then I lost my place andthere was about a three second
pause till I could find it.
And I think it ain't almost anyfuneral, especially an unsaved
(17:23):
person Like how could you saythat at a funeral, I'm not, I'm
not sad.
My grandpa died and then Icaught my.
I'm super happy for him becauseI know what he's got, where
he's at now, and I know whathe's got now and it's that there
.
There's no, my grandpa had zerofear of death because he knew
it was only so I'm so happy forhim.
He's now in a place with no painand no sorrow.
You know what I'm saying Ithink, there's a lot.
(17:45):
There were probably people inthat room that were like what is
he about to say?
Like I'm not.
There's a hole there and I'msad about that, but I'm not sad
that he's passed right, becauseyou not only do you have that
belief, you knew that, he knewthat he knew that jesus was his
lord and savior.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yeah, so you can.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
You can have that um assurement that he's where he
belonged and it's not verse 16,I mean it's for us for 16, for
surely it is not angels he helps, but ab Abraham's descendants,
which is us.
For this reason he had to bemade like them, saying like us,
fully human in every way, inorder that he might become a
merciful and faithful highpriest in service to God and
(18:28):
then he might make atonement forthe sins of the people.
Because he himself sufferedwhen he was tempted, he able to
help those who are being tempted.
There we kind of skipped aheadthere he lived a life just like
we did.
He just lived without sin.
He was that perfect lamb likeyou talked about.
If you read the old testament,leviticus and all those, there's
a lot of rules.
It's the law that moses washanded, handed by god when you
(18:50):
it was required.
You couldn't just take any lamband you had some goats out here
.
Those were some ugly lookinggoats, right.
You couldn't just bring somerandom goat for a sin that you
committed.
It had to be a pure andblameless lamb or goat to atone
for that sin and that was justforeshadowing, or god already
had planned with jesus.
Jesus had to come fully man,just like us, so that he could
(19:12):
live and be tempted just like us, so that he could live and have
that bridge to perfection.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I think this, uh, this hebrews chapter two is,
first, a great reminder that wegot to pay close attention,
right, it isn't something thatwe can kind of just show up, pop
in and out of, yeah and and dowilly-nilly, right, it is, um,
every day we gotta walk, wake upand die to ourselves and remind
(19:39):
ourselves that jesus is who hesaid he was.
And that's what this hebrewswriter is doing here in chapter
two.
He's telling you that jesuscame.
He's telling the jewishchristians jesus came and he was
fully man and he died for you,and to this day, jewish people
struggle with this belief, right?
(20:00):
So you can go back to this andI think you pointed to this I
don't know if it was last week,but like that struggle, it would
be a struggle.
You're living under the OldTestament and this guy comes
right and flips the script andyou're just supposed to jump on
board.
That would be hard to do, yeah,but as the writer pointed to,
(20:23):
you can be assured of thesethings, because there are
numerous writings out there,both in the bible and you can
even find them outside the biblethat attest that jesus was an
actual man.
They don't agree that he wasson of god, but they attest that
Jesus was an actual man.
They don't agree that he wasson of God, but they attest that
he was a man and the thingsthat happened to him were
(20:45):
factual and the way he died.
And then, if you look at theapostles and the way they died,
there's reassurement in thatbecause it would have been
really easy for them to throwtheir arms up in the air and say
you know what I'm?
I'm done with this stuff.
I'm no longer going to tellthis lie.
Yeah, no one dies for a lie so Ithink, as we reflect on hebrews
(21:08):
, chapter 2 here, that we needto pay attention and we need to
be willing to share that jesusis who he said he was, and then
he came fully man.
And then next week we're goingto dive into chapter three,
where the writer is going totalk about how jesus isn't
greater than moses, or jesus isgreater than moses.
Right, not that he's notgreater than moses, but he is
(21:29):
greater than moses.
So this community is probablystruggling with food.
Well, we know he's.
They're struggling with whojesus is right, because he's
already laid it out in chapter 1.
He's laid it out in chapter 2.
And we can see in the headingsof chapter 3 and 4 that this guy
is just proving who Jesus isand walking us through Scripture
, both old and mixing in some ofthe new right.
(21:50):
So we look forward to next weekin Hebrews, chapter 3.
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