September 10, 2025 • 29 mins
We would love to hear from you. Send us a text message now by clicking HERE!
The subtle line between influence and manipulation marks the difference between godly leadership and toxic control. In today's competitive business landscape, your ability to persuade ethically doesn't just affect your bottom line—it shapes your legacy and testimony.
We begin by spotlighting Polydeck Screen Corp, a mining industry supplier whose transformation epitomizes the power of biblical persuasion. When Peter Fressel took the reins, the company boasted financial success but suffered from a toxic culture with 20% employee turnover. After a life-changing Christian retreat, Peter established new core values grounded in Christian principles and backed them with action—allocating 1% of profits to employee needs, community outreach, and recognition programs. The result? Turnover plummeted below 2%, and over 200 employees embraced Christ. This remarkable turnaround demonstrates how godly persuasion transforms not just operations but hearts.
True persuasion, we discover, requires building authentic relationships, sharing compelling stories, exercising patience, thorough preparation, and seeking divine guidance. Biblical examples abound—from Paul's reasoned defense before King Agrippa to Solomon's wisdom about gentle speech breaking bones. These principles stand in stark contrast to manipulation, which prioritizes self-interest through deception and pressure. We examine cautionary tales of manipulative leadership from Uber's Travis Kalanick to Theranos' Elizabeth Holmes, whose downfalls stemmed from exploitative tactics.
As Christian business leaders, our mandate to influence positively extends beyond profit margins to eternal impact. When we embrace persuasion as a tool for transformation rather than control, we don't just build successful businesses—we reflect Christ's character in the marketplace. Remember, persuasion isn't about winning arguments; it's about winning hearts.
How might your leadership approach change if you prioritized biblical persuasion over manipulation? Join our community by sharing this episode with colleagues who would benefit from these principles.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Christian Business Concepts with
your host, harold Milby.
Christian Business Concepts isdedicated to guiding companies
and business owners in becomingeffective, efficient and
successful through God's Wordand godly principles.
Now, here's your host, haroldMilby.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Thanks, kelly, and welcome everyone to this week's
Christian Business Conceptspodcast.
That's where we shareinsightful biblical principles
that apply to businesses, thatapply to our careers and even
our personal lives.
That will help us find truegodly success.
I'm your host, harold Milby,and I pray that today that
you'll be enlightened, thatyou'll be encouraged and that
(00:39):
you'll be empowered by what youhear today.
Now I'm going to ask that youhelp us grow the CBC community,
just by sharing this podcastwith four or five other people,
or by posting a link on yourLinkedIn page or your Facebook
page, and just help us to reachout and reach that community
(01:00):
maybe where you're at, thepeople that you know and share
this podcast with them.
So we appreciate that andappreciate all that you do and
hope that you understand ourheart behind it and what we're
trying to do to help build godlybusinesses around the world.
Now, today, I want to give abig shout out to the capital
city of Medellin, in the countryof Colombia.
(01:21):
We're so happy that you'vedecided to be a part of the CBC
family.
We hope you're blessed by whatwe share with you and we're so
happy for you to be one of thecountries one of the new
countries that have startedlistening to the Christian
Business Concepts podcast.
So welcome, and we welcome allof you from around the world and
(01:43):
in the United States.
We thank you, we appreciate youall.
Now, in the company spotlightthis week, I'd like to tell you
a little bit about a companycalled Polydeck Screen Corp.
They make polyurethanescreening material for the
mining industry, and PeterFressel came to South Carolina,
which is where the business is,from, south Africa in 1994.
(02:05):
And he was working for hisfather in South Africa, but he
moved to the US after he gotmarried to take over the
business that they had here andover in here in the United
States, over in South Carolina.
Now, it didn't take long beforethat business was extremely,
extremely successful, but itcame at the expense of treating
(02:26):
the employees in a very bad way.
They didn't care about whattheir employees were going
through, they just wanted themto work.
They bullied them, they gavethem a hard time, but they did
everything to squeeze every dropof work out of them, and so,
consequently, they had a 20%turnover rate with employees,
(02:49):
and even some of the employmentcompanies refused to send new
employees to them.
Now here's where it gets good.
You know, peter, at the requestof a friend of his, asked him
to come on to a Christianretreat.
Now Peter already, you know,thought of himself as a
Christian and thought he lovedGod and felt like he loved the
Lord with all of his heart.
But Peter went on this retreatand it changed his life.
(03:13):
It caused him to look up to Godand then to be honest with
himself.
Now, as soon as he got back,things began to change, and the
first thing they did was theychanged the company's core value
statement and it says this itsays we are a company grounded
in Christian values of humility,honesty, integrity, trust,
(03:37):
respect, kindness,accountability and a sense of
social responsibility.
And that was just the changingof the core values.
So you know, you can say onething and do another and it
doesn't really have much of animpact.
So he knew he had to put hismoney, so to speak, where his
mouth was.
So he took 1% of their profitsevery year and they had a budget
(04:00):
for what they called theircaring committee and that money
was used for things likeemergency loans, car repairs,
home repairs, you know, fortheir employees.
And then they also gave moneyto create a budget for a
community charity fund wherethey gave money to local
charities and still do.
(04:20):
And then they had what's calleda reach-out fund, and the
reach-out fund is where theytook employees on mission trips
to build schools and theyconducted business workshops and
just overall just shared God'slove.
And then they had somethingcalled a Katcha Caring Program.
A Katcha Caring Program torecognize employees when they
(04:43):
would get caught showing thatthey cared about people, and so
they had this program thatreally recognized those
employees.
So their turnover rate wentfrom 20% to less than 2%, but,
more importantly, there wereover 200 employees in a short
period of time that gave theirlives to Christ, and that's what
(05:04):
makes it all worth it, and sowe want to give a big shout out
to them.
We think they're a greatcompany.
Polydeck Screen Corp.
We just thank you for whatyou're doing and we thank you
for caring and we thank you forshowing employees godly love,
godly care, godly integrity.
Keep up the good work.
We appreciate you.
(05:25):
So let's talk a little bit thischange that Peter had at
Polydeck.
It takes me right into thisweek's topic because I want to
talk about the power ofpersuasion.
You know, it was the gentlepersuasion of the Holy Spirit
that changed Peter's heart andhis company.
(05:46):
And then he used persuasion tochange the hearts of managers
and board members.
And so they used thatpersuasion.
And as business leaders, youknow, we're called not only to
manage operations but to reallyinfluence hearts and minds,
(06:07):
especially towards godlyoutcomes.
And persuasion, when it'srooted really rooted in biblical
principles, it really becomes atool for transformation.
It helps to guide your teams,it helps to guide clients and
stakeholders towards.
You know, whatever that sharedvision may be, especially to
(06:28):
honor God, and whether you're aCEO or an entrepreneur or a team
manager, mastering persuasion,you know, will elevate your
influence.
And the one thing I know isthat leadership is influence.
You know, when Ben Franklin,that leadership is influence.
You know, when Ben Franklintried to get people interested
(06:48):
in Philadelphia in streetlighting, he wanted to have
street lights in Philadelphia.
He didn't really try topersuade them by just talking
about it.
What he did is he hung this big, beautiful lantern on a long
bracket in front of his home andhe kept the glass just
spectacularly polished, I guess,you could say.
(07:10):
And every evening when dusk,you know, right before dusk, he
would very diligently, verycarefully, he'd light the wick
and people saw that light from adistance, and when they walked
in its light they found that ithelped them to avoid any
stumbling stones or sharp stonesor edges on the pavement.
(07:31):
So other people begin to put alight at their home and soon
Philadelphia recognized the needfor street lighting.
You know, and as other peoplelearn of the peace and joy in
your life in Christ, they'llrecognize their need for him.
You know, your witness throughyour personal testimony may be
(07:55):
just what someone's waiting for.
You never know, but BenFranklin gave us a great example
of persuasion.
You know, and why?
Why do leaders need to learn thepower of persuasion?
Well, first of all, realizethat today's business is
(08:15):
competitive.
You know we're in a verycompetitive business environment
.
You know, and really leadershipreally extends, I think,
between vision and thenexecution.
It really enables leaders tomotivate their teams to
(08:42):
negotiate really effectively anddrive innovation.
You know, without it, withoutpersuasion, I think even the
best strategies fail to gaintraction.
And so I think it's importantNow.
In 2 Corinthians 5 and 11, itsays that since then we know
(09:02):
what it is to fear the Lord.
We try to persuade others.
What we are in, or what we are,is plain to God, and I hope it
is also plain to your conscience.
So persuasion is tied toreverence for God, not just
self-promotion.
It's about transparency, it'sabout guiding others towards
(09:25):
truth, whether it be the truthof your vision, the truth of
God's word.
But as Christian businessleaders, we need to persuade
clients to make ethicalpartnerships.
We need to persuade employeesto embrace change and always
have integrity.
You know, proverbs 29, 18 sayswhere there is no revelation,
(09:47):
people cast off restraint.
But blessed is the one whoheeds wisdom's instruction.
A leader unskilled in persuasionfails to reveal the vision.
It really results in a lot ofdisorganization amongst teams
and it causes you to miss someopportunities.
(10:07):
You know you got to considerPaul's encounter with King
Agrippa in Acts, chapter 26,.
You know, because even KingAgrippa said do you think that
in such a short time you canpersuade me to be a Christian?
You know Paul's reasoneddefense nearly swayed that king
(10:27):
to accept Christ.
It's just persuasion, the powerof persuasion.
It's really kind of ahigh-stakes game.
It's like pitching to investorsor resolving boardroom disputes
.
You need to have it.
So what does the Bible talkabout?
Research from leadership expertslike John Maxwell from
(10:53):
leadership experts like JohnMaxwell, who's been my mentor
since 1990, say that without it,leaders risk a real high
turnover, a lot of failedinitiatives, you know, for
instance, persuading a team toadopt new technology.
You've got to address the fear.
You've got to do it patiently.
(11:13):
You've got to turn thatresistance into kind of what's
called a buy-in.
You know, ethically, christianleaders persuade to glorify God.
You know you need to avoidmanipulation.
We're going to get into thathere in just a minute.
But Colossians 2 and 4 says, Itell you this, that no one may
deceive you by fine soundingarguments.
(11:34):
So we're not here to deceivepeople, we're here to give them
truth.
But we need to learn this powerof persuasion.
So how do we do that?
How do we learn the power ofpersuasion?
Well, the first thing thatyou've got to do is you've got
to build authentic relationships.
(11:55):
You know persuasion reallythrives.
It's fed by trust.
So you've got to start tofoster genuine connections.
You've got to have real sincererelationships with those people
that you expect to allowpersuasion to take effect.
(12:18):
You've got to practice activelistening in meetings.
You've got to ask greatquestions from team members.
That challenges them.
That causes them to dig deep.
You want to invest time inunderstanding what their needs
are.
That causes them to dig deep.
You want to invest time inunderstanding what their needs
are and you can role playconversations and what they need
(12:40):
to get done and you can try tohelp them.
But the bottom line is you'retrying to build authentic
relationships.
Another thing that you need todo use stories, use testimonies
when you're trying to persuadesomeone, uh to to something that
you need to get done.
It's part of the vision thatyou have, it's part of what
(13:01):
God's showing you.
Use stories.
You know stories humanizepersuasion.
Uh, it makes really abstractideas.
It begins to make themrelatable.
You know, you, you share thesepersonal let's say before and
after experiences.
It makes really abstract ideas.
It begins to make themrelatable.
You know, you share thesepersonal let's say before and
(13:22):
after experiences, like Paul'stestimony in the book of Acts.
You know, nike persuadesconsumers by sharing these
stories of perseverance, thesestories of empowerment, through
these athlete narratives, thesestories of empowerment through
these athlete narratives, andthey create this emotional
connection that drives loyaltyand drives sales to their brand.
And so what we need to do is weneed to tell stories.
(13:45):
You know Acts 26, 29,.
It says Short time or long.
I pray to God that, not onlyyou, but all who are listening
to me today may become what I am, except for these change.
Uh, you know he was in prisonand chains changed when he wrote
this.
But you need to tell stories.
Um, the next thing that you needto do is you need to exercise
(14:06):
patience and gentleness.
You know, you don't want torush to persuade somebody
because when you do that italienates people.
So you want to rush to persuadesomebody because when you do
that it alienates people.
So you want to have patience,because that really kind of
softens the heart.
You know, proverbs 25 and 15says through patience a ruler
can be persuaded and a gentletongue can break a bone.
(14:27):
You know, we just need to prayfor wisdom.
You know James 1 and 5, it saysyou know, if any man lack
wisdom, let him ask of God whogiveth liberally and upbraideth
not.
So we need to ask for wisdom.
You know, when you faceresistance, you got to respond
gently.
You know, say something likeyou know hey, look, I understand
your concerns.
(14:48):
Let's kind of explore thistogether and get them to talk
about it, and then you try toaddress the issues that they
have.
Another step that you need totake is you need to prepare.
Prepare when you're going topersuade somebody, make sure
that you have knowledge and youhave integrity.
Make sure that you know whatyou're talking about, that
(15:09):
you're persuading them withfacts and the stories as we
talked about.
You know, 2 Timothy 2.15 saysdo your best to present yourself
to God as one approved, aworker who does not need to be
ashamed or who currently handlesthe word of truth.
So we need to make sure thatwe're prepared, that we have the
(15:30):
knowledge and integrity.
If you're going to persuadesomebody, you need to know what
you're saying and what you'retalking about.
You need to know what the factsare.
And then the next step is youneed to pray and you need to
seek the Holy Spirit's guidance,because true influence really
comes from God.
You know 1 Peter 3.15,.
It says but in your hearts,revere Christ as Lord.
(15:51):
Always be prepared to give ananswer to everyone who asks you
to give the reason for the hopethat you have, but do this with
gentleness and with respect.
So again, we are preparing withknowledge, we're being patient,
we're being gentle, but youneed to seek the Lord's help and
he'll help you to becomepersuasive.
(16:13):
Now let's talk a little bitabout the difference between
persuasion and manipulation,because there's a difference.
You know, as Christian leadersin the business world, we're
called to influence other peoplewith integrity.
We need to always be reflectingChrist's love and truth.
However, that line betweenethical persuasion and what I
(16:35):
would consider to be unethicalmanipulation, I think sometimes
that line gets a little blurredand it leads to a lot of harm to
people, to teams, toorganizations and even your
personal testimony.
So let's look at this, becauseto lead effectively, we've got
to understand the real coredifferences between persuasion
(16:59):
and manipulation.
I have worked for owners ofcompanies that were very
manipulative.
I don't stay long at thosecompanies.
If I see that happening, I'mpretty quick to either address
it directly, even though I'm notthe owner, but I will go to the
owner and I will address that.
You know, this is not just meresemantics.
(17:23):
I mean I have to get involvedin that because I can't trust
somebody who is manipulative,and so it really impacts trust
and impacts ethics, and it willaffect the outcome in business
and even in ministry, becauseI've seen a lot of pastors that
are very manipulative.
And so manipulation is not whatwe're going for.
(17:45):
We're going for persuasion.
So let's look at it.
So what's persuasion?
Well, persuasion is the ethicalart of really influencing other
people through transparent andreasoned communication that
respects free will and seeksmutual benefit.
(18:06):
It involves presenting factsand stories and appeals in such
a way that invites agreement.
You know, it often is buildinga stronger relationship even
through the midst of thepersuasion.
Now, what's manipulation?
Well, manipulation, conversely,is really.
It's a deceptive, it's acoercive influence that
(18:31):
prioritizes their self-interestat the other person's expense.
It uses tactics like emotionalpressure or maybe half-truths
they're just giving you a littlebit of truth because they found
that that is helpful to helpthem manipulate you or hidden
(18:54):
agendas to control behavioragainst someone's better
judgment.
And in a Christian context,manipulation I consider it to be
spiritual abuse.
I think it's where leadersforce compliance rather than
inspire voluntary commitment.
You know, simon Sinek said ifwe inspire people, they will
(19:20):
give us more than we ask for.
If we manipulate people, theywill give us exactly what we
paid for.
Uh, carrie West went on to sayemotional blackmail is a
powerful form of manipulation.
It leaves you in a fog wherethere is a haze of fear,
obligation and guilt.
So I hope you can kind of seethe difference.
You know, uh, there's biblicalperspectives on persuasion and
(19:43):
manipulation.
You know, corinthians 5 and 11says since then we know what it
is to fear the Lord.
We try to persuade others andwhat we are is plain to God and
I hope it is plain to yourconscience.
So Paul had a very transparentapproach and that really models
persuasion.
And I think that the Biblereally condemns manipulation.
(20:06):
You know, Proverbs 12, 22 saysthe Lord detests lying lips, but
he delights in people who aretrustworthy.
So manipulation often involveslies or, like I said,
half-truths, and it reallyundermines, you know, the trust.
You know Psalms 101 and 7 saysno one who practices deceit will
(20:30):
dwell in my house and no onewho speaks falsely will stand in
my presence.
Again it rejects manipulativeleaders who use lies.
Colossians 2 and 4 says I tellyou this so that no one may
deceive you by fine-soundingarguments.
You know Paul cautions thepeople in the Colossian church.
(20:50):
He cautions them againstmanipulative what I would
consider to be rhetoric thatsounds appealing but it lacks
truth.
And then Ephesians 4 and 14says that then we will no longer
be infants tossed back andforth by the waves and blown
here and there by every wind ofteaching and by the cunning and
(21:12):
craftiness of people and theirdeceitful scheming.
So this kind of describesmanipulation's instability, and
when you contrast that withpersuasion, persuasion creates a
stability.
So why does this differencematter?
I mean, why does it matter thatthere's this difference between
(21:35):
operating through persuasionand operating through
manipulation?
Well, manipulation may give yousome short-term gains, but let
me tell you something It'll leadto higher turnover rate.
It can also I mean, you have tolook at the legal risk that you
take sometimes too and damagedreputations in your business, in
(21:57):
your personal life, in yourcareer.
You know studies that are outthere right now.
They kind of show manipulativeenvironments reduce employee
engagement for up to 30%.
So, in contrast, you've gotpersuasive leadership.
It really fosters loyalty andinnovation.
You know.
(22:18):
It reminds me of this story.
You know, the day beforeThanksgiving, an elderly man in
Phoenix.
He called his son in New Yorkand said to him he said, hey, I
hate to ruin your day, but Ihave to tell you that your
mother and I are divorcing.
45 years of misery is enough.
You know we're sick of eachother.
So you call your sister inChicago and tell her.
So the son, he's justcompletely frantic.
(22:41):
He calls his sister.
You know she explodes on thephone.
You know, like heck, they'regoing to get a divorce, she'd
shout back and she said I'lltake care of this.
And so she called Phoenix andcalled her parents immediately
and said to her dad.
She said hey look, you are notgetting a divorce.
Don't do a single thing until Iget there.
I'm calling my brother back andwe'll both be there tomorrow,
(23:05):
so until then, don't you do athing.
You hear me, and so you know.
The dad hung up with hisdaughter and he turns to his
wife and he says okay, honey,the kids are coming for
Thanksgiving and they're payingfor their own flights.
So that's an example ofmanipulation.
You know, that's a primeexample of manipulation.
(23:26):
So how do we practice persuasionto avoid manipulation?
Well, you got to be transparent.
You need to focus on mutualbenefit of everyone and you need
to use gentle approaches.
Make sure you employ patience,use your stories, like we talked
(23:46):
about, share testimonies, sothat that'll inspire them, not
coerce them.
You want to inspire them.
It's about inspiration andthese are some, you know,
tactics that you can use toavoid manipulation.
(24:09):
So there's a lot of greatexamples of this.
We had a CRM, a customerrelationship management tool
that was public domain, so youonly paid for things that you
wanted them to do, you got theCRM for free, but you had to pay
for things.
If you wanted them to host it,then you paid for it.
If you wanted them to changethings, you paid for it.
(24:29):
But there came a time to when Inoticed that we hosted our own.
We hosted our own CRM, so itdidn't affect us.
But what I found out was isthey shut down thousands of
people's CRMs for a whole day,for 24 hours, and the reason
that they did it was they saidthere's not enough people that
(24:51):
are giving towards this greatproduct that was free of charge.
And they took donations and,like I said, you paid for the
help that you got, and so,instead of making a plea,
instead of coming and persuadingthem, they shut down every
single CRM instance that theyhosted.
They shut it down for 24 hoursand then said well, how do you
(25:14):
like that?
You know, I think they lostmore people than any of the
amount of money that they couldhave gained.
It was such a turnoff.
It was really a big turnoff forus.
You know, fortunately theydidn't shut us down because we
had our own instance of that CRMon our own personal servers at
work, but there's companies thatdo that kind of thing.
(25:34):
You know Travis Kalanick he'sUber's co-founder and he was
their former CEO.
He resigned in 2017.
But he was notorious forcultivating a very toxic and a
very aggressive workplace.
You know, he manipulatedemployees through intimidation,
through sexism and a lot ofdeceptive practices, and that's
(25:57):
one of the reasons he waspressured to step down as CEO,
you know.
And then there was Adam Newman,who he was the CEO of WeWork.
That's not even in businessanymore.
He was ousted in 2019 becausehe had again this reputation for
being manipulative.
He was a very kind of acult-like leader and he just
(26:18):
exploited employees throughemotion or just impulsive
decisions and putting pressureon them, you know, and it was
just really he was just trying,it was his personal gain at
their expense.
And then, of course, morerecently, elizabeth Holmes.
She was the founder and formerCEO of Theranos.
(26:39):
The company was dissolved in2018, but she manipulated
employees through this cultureof extreme secrecy, very
deceptive intimidation toconceal even at that point, to
conceal her company's veryfraudulent blood testing
technology.
So these are some modernexamples, some modern examples.
(27:02):
So you can see, as leaders,that we need to embrace
persuasion as a godly mandate toinfluence in a positive way for
our businesses, for ourpersonal lives, for our careers
and even for the kingdom of God.
It's a tool to be used to buildteams and to build cohesiveness
(27:26):
, tool to be used to build teamsand to build cohesiveness.
And when you learn, and asyou've learned, that it's
essential and how to apply itbiblically and professionally, I
think you'll be able totransform your leadership,
transform your team.
I believe you can transformyour company or maybe your
department.
But remember, persuasion isn'tabout winning arguments, it's
(27:48):
about winning hearts.
Remember that it's not aboutwinning arguments, it's about
winning hearts.
Father, I thank you for everysingle hearing ear today that
has listened to this podcast and, lord, I thank you for help.
I thank you for the help thatyou give to those of us who've
(28:09):
listened to this podcast.
And we see the differences,lord.
We see the differences betweenmanipulation and persuasion.
Help us to take inventory, lord, of our own selves and to give
an honest assessment todetermine, lord, if we're being
manipulative towards otherpeople for our own good or are
we persuading other people forthe good of others.
(28:32):
Lord, we ask you to help us tobe honest with ourselves and
help us to learn how to bepersuasive versus being
manipulative, and, lord, wethank you for that.
We praise you for it in thename of Jesus Christ.
Amen and amen.
Hey, thanks for downloadingthis podcast for Christian
(28:53):
Business Concepts and forsharing it with four or five
other people.
Well, our time's up today, sountil next time, remember, jesus
is Lord and he wants youblessed.
Welcome to the Christian Business Concepts with
your host, harold Milby.
Christian Business Concepts isdedicated to guiding companies
and business owners in becomingeffective, efficient and
successful through God's Wordand godly principles.
Now, here's your host, haroldMilby.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Thanks, kelly, and welcome everyone to this week's
Christian Business Conceptspodcast.
That's where we shareinsightful biblical principles
that apply to businesses, thatapply to our careers and even
our personal lives.
That will help us find truegodly success.
I'm your host, harold Milby,and I pray that today that
you'll be enlightened, thatyou'll be encouraged and that
(00:39):
you'll be empowered by what youhear today.
Now I'm going to ask that youhelp us grow the CBC community,
just by sharing this podcastwith four or five other people,
or by posting a link on yourLinkedIn page or your Facebook
page, and just help us to reachout and reach that community
(01:00):
maybe where you're at, thepeople that you know and share
this podcast with them.
So we appreciate that andappreciate all that you do and
hope that you understand ourheart behind it and what we're
trying to do to help build godlybusinesses around the world.
Now, today, I want to give abig shout out to the capital
city of Medellin, in the countryof Colombia.
(01:21):
We're so happy that you'vedecided to be a part of the CBC
family.
We hope you're blessed by whatwe share with you and we're so
happy for you to be one of thecountries one of the new
countries that have startedlistening to the Christian
Business Concepts podcast.
So welcome, and we welcome allof you from around the world and
(01:43):
in the United States.
We thank you, we appreciate youall.
Now, in the company spotlightthis week, I'd like to tell you
a little bit about a companycalled Polydeck Screen Corp.
They make polyurethanescreening material for the
mining industry, and PeterFressel came to South Carolina,
which is where the business is,from, south Africa in 1994.
(02:05):
And he was working for hisfather in South Africa, but he
moved to the US after he gotmarried to take over the
business that they had here andover in here in the United
States, over in South Carolina.
Now, it didn't take long beforethat business was extremely,
extremely successful, but itcame at the expense of treating
(02:26):
the employees in a very bad way.
They didn't care about whattheir employees were going
through, they just wanted themto work.
They bullied them, they gavethem a hard time, but they did
everything to squeeze every dropof work out of them, and so,
consequently, they had a 20%turnover rate with employees,
(02:49):
and even some of the employmentcompanies refused to send new
employees to them.
Now here's where it gets good.
You know, peter, at the requestof a friend of his, asked him
to come on to a Christianretreat.
Now Peter already, you know,thought of himself as a
Christian and thought he lovedGod and felt like he loved the
Lord with all of his heart.
But Peter went on this retreatand it changed his life.
(03:13):
It caused him to look up to Godand then to be honest with
himself.
Now, as soon as he got back,things began to change, and the
first thing they did was theychanged the company's core value
statement and it says this itsays we are a company grounded
in Christian values of humility,honesty, integrity, trust,
(03:37):
respect, kindness,accountability and a sense of
social responsibility.
And that was just the changingof the core values.
So you know, you can say onething and do another and it
doesn't really have much of animpact.
So he knew he had to put hismoney, so to speak, where his
mouth was.
So he took 1% of their profitsevery year and they had a budget
(04:00):
for what they called theircaring committee and that money
was used for things likeemergency loans, car repairs,
home repairs, you know, fortheir employees.
And then they also gave moneyto create a budget for a
community charity fund wherethey gave money to local
charities and still do.
(04:20):
And then they had what's calleda reach-out fund, and the
reach-out fund is where theytook employees on mission trips
to build schools and theyconducted business workshops and
just overall just shared God'slove.
And then they had somethingcalled a Katcha Caring Program.
A Katcha Caring Program torecognize employees when they
(04:43):
would get caught showing thatthey cared about people, and so
they had this program thatreally recognized those
employees.
So their turnover rate wentfrom 20% to less than 2%, but,
more importantly, there wereover 200 employees in a short
period of time that gave theirlives to Christ, and that's what
(05:04):
makes it all worth it, and sowe want to give a big shout out
to them.
We think they're a greatcompany.
Polydeck Screen Corp.
We just thank you for whatyou're doing and we thank you
for caring and we thank you forshowing employees godly love,
godly care, godly integrity.
Keep up the good work.
We appreciate you.
(05:25):
So let's talk a little bit thischange that Peter had at
Polydeck.
It takes me right into thisweek's topic because I want to
talk about the power ofpersuasion.
You know, it was the gentlepersuasion of the Holy Spirit
that changed Peter's heart andhis company.
(05:46):
And then he used persuasion tochange the hearts of managers
and board members.
And so they used thatpersuasion.
And as business leaders, youknow, we're called not only to
manage operations but to reallyinfluence hearts and minds,
(06:07):
especially towards godlyoutcomes.
And persuasion, when it'srooted really rooted in biblical
principles, it really becomes atool for transformation.
It helps to guide your teams,it helps to guide clients and
stakeholders towards.
You know, whatever that sharedvision may be, especially to
(06:28):
honor God, and whether you're aCEO or an entrepreneur or a team
manager, mastering persuasion,you know, will elevate your
influence.
And the one thing I know isthat leadership is influence.
You know, when Ben Franklin,that leadership is influence.
You know, when Ben Franklintried to get people interested
(06:48):
in Philadelphia in streetlighting, he wanted to have
street lights in Philadelphia.
He didn't really try topersuade them by just talking
about it.
What he did is he hung this big, beautiful lantern on a long
bracket in front of his home andhe kept the glass just
spectacularly polished, I guess,you could say.
(07:10):
And every evening when dusk,you know, right before dusk, he
would very diligently, verycarefully, he'd light the wick
and people saw that light from adistance, and when they walked
in its light they found that ithelped them to avoid any
stumbling stones or sharp stonesor edges on the pavement.
(07:31):
So other people begin to put alight at their home and soon
Philadelphia recognized the needfor street lighting.
You know, and as other peoplelearn of the peace and joy in
your life in Christ, they'llrecognize their need for him.
You know, your witness throughyour personal testimony may be
(07:55):
just what someone's waiting for.
You never know, but BenFranklin gave us a great example
of persuasion.
You know, and why?
Why do leaders need to learn thepower of persuasion?
Well, first of all, realizethat today's business is
(08:15):
competitive.
You know we're in a verycompetitive business environment
.
You know, and really leadershipreally extends, I think,
between vision and thenexecution.
It really enables leaders tomotivate their teams to
(08:42):
negotiate really effectively anddrive innovation.
You know, without it, withoutpersuasion, I think even the
best strategies fail to gaintraction.
And so I think it's importantNow.
In 2 Corinthians 5 and 11, itsays that since then we know
(09:02):
what it is to fear the Lord.
We try to persuade others.
What we are in, or what we are,is plain to God, and I hope it
is also plain to your conscience.
So persuasion is tied toreverence for God, not just
self-promotion.
It's about transparency, it'sabout guiding others towards
(09:25):
truth, whether it be the truthof your vision, the truth of
God's word.
But as Christian businessleaders, we need to persuade
clients to make ethicalpartnerships.
We need to persuade employeesto embrace change and always
have integrity.
You know, proverbs 29, 18 sayswhere there is no revelation,
(09:47):
people cast off restraint.
But blessed is the one whoheeds wisdom's instruction.
A leader unskilled in persuasionfails to reveal the vision.
It really results in a lot ofdisorganization amongst teams
and it causes you to miss someopportunities.
(10:07):
You know you got to considerPaul's encounter with King
Agrippa in Acts, chapter 26,.
You know, because even KingAgrippa said do you think that
in such a short time you canpersuade me to be a Christian?
You know Paul's reasoneddefense nearly swayed that king
(10:27):
to accept Christ.
It's just persuasion, the powerof persuasion.
It's really kind of ahigh-stakes game.
It's like pitching to investorsor resolving boardroom disputes
.
You need to have it.
So what does the Bible talkabout?
Research from leadership expertslike John Maxwell from
(10:53):
leadership experts like JohnMaxwell, who's been my mentor
since 1990, say that without it,leaders risk a real high
turnover, a lot of failedinitiatives, you know, for
instance, persuading a team toadopt new technology.
You've got to address the fear.
You've got to do it patiently.
(11:13):
You've got to turn thatresistance into kind of what's
called a buy-in.
You know, ethically, christianleaders persuade to glorify God.
You know you need to avoidmanipulation.
We're going to get into thathere in just a minute.
But Colossians 2 and 4 says, Itell you this, that no one may
deceive you by fine soundingarguments.
(11:34):
So we're not here to deceivepeople, we're here to give them
truth.
But we need to learn this powerof persuasion.
So how do we do that?
How do we learn the power ofpersuasion?
Well, the first thing thatyou've got to do is you've got
to build authentic relationships.
(11:55):
You know persuasion reallythrives.
It's fed by trust.
So you've got to start tofoster genuine connections.
You've got to have real sincererelationships with those people
that you expect to allowpersuasion to take effect.
(12:18):
You've got to practice activelistening in meetings.
You've got to ask greatquestions from team members.
That challenges them.
That causes them to dig deep.
You want to invest time inunderstanding what their needs
are.
That causes them to dig deep.
You want to invest time inunderstanding what their needs
are and you can role playconversations and what they need
(12:40):
to get done and you can try tohelp them.
But the bottom line is you'retrying to build authentic
relationships.
Another thing that you need todo use stories, use testimonies
when you're trying to persuadesomeone, uh to to something that
you need to get done.
It's part of the vision thatyou have, it's part of what
(13:01):
God's showing you.
Use stories.
You know stories humanizepersuasion.
Uh, it makes really abstractideas.
It begins to make themrelatable.
You know, you, you share thesepersonal let's say before and
after experiences.
It makes really abstract ideas.
It begins to make themrelatable.
You know, you share thesepersonal let's say before and
(13:22):
after experiences, like Paul'stestimony in the book of Acts.
You know, nike persuadesconsumers by sharing these
stories of perseverance, thesestories of empowerment, through
these athlete narratives, thesestories of empowerment through
these athlete narratives, andthey create this emotional
connection that drives loyaltyand drives sales to their brand.
And so what we need to do is weneed to tell stories.
(13:45):
You know Acts 26, 29,.
It says Short time or long.
I pray to God that, not onlyyou, but all who are listening
to me today may become what I am, except for these change.
Uh, you know he was in prisonand chains changed when he wrote
this.
But you need to tell stories.
Um, the next thing that you needto do is you need to exercise
(14:06):
patience and gentleness.
You know, you don't want torush to persuade somebody
because when you do that italienates people.
So you want to rush to persuadesomebody because when you do
that it alienates people.
So you want to have patience,because that really kind of
softens the heart.
You know, proverbs 25 and 15says through patience a ruler
can be persuaded and a gentletongue can break a bone.
(14:27):
You know, we just need to prayfor wisdom.
You know James 1 and 5, it saysyou know, if any man lack
wisdom, let him ask of God whogiveth liberally and upbraideth
not.
So we need to ask for wisdom.
You know, when you faceresistance, you got to respond
gently.
You know, say something likeyou know hey, look, I understand
your concerns.
(14:48):
Let's kind of explore thistogether and get them to talk
about it, and then you try toaddress the issues that they
have.
Another step that you need totake is you need to prepare.
Prepare when you're going topersuade somebody, make sure
that you have knowledge and youhave integrity.
Make sure that you know whatyou're talking about, that
(15:09):
you're persuading them withfacts and the stories as we
talked about.
You know, 2 Timothy 2.15 saysdo your best to present yourself
to God as one approved, aworker who does not need to be
ashamed or who currently handlesthe word of truth.
So we need to make sure thatwe're prepared, that we have the
(15:30):
knowledge and integrity.
If you're going to persuadesomebody, you need to know what
you're saying and what you'retalking about.
You need to know what the factsare.
And then the next step is youneed to pray and you need to
seek the Holy Spirit's guidance,because true influence really
comes from God.
You know 1 Peter 3.15,.
It says but in your hearts,revere Christ as Lord.
(15:51):
Always be prepared to give ananswer to everyone who asks you
to give the reason for the hopethat you have, but do this with
gentleness and with respect.
So again, we are preparing withknowledge, we're being patient,
we're being gentle, but youneed to seek the Lord's help and
he'll help you to becomepersuasive.
(16:13):
Now let's talk a little bitabout the difference between
persuasion and manipulation,because there's a difference.
You know, as Christian leadersin the business world, we're
called to influence other peoplewith integrity.
We need to always be reflectingChrist's love and truth.
However, that line betweenethical persuasion and what I
(16:35):
would consider to be unethicalmanipulation, I think sometimes
that line gets a little blurredand it leads to a lot of harm to
people, to teams, toorganizations and even your
personal testimony.
So let's look at this, becauseto lead effectively, we've got
to understand the real coredifferences between persuasion
(16:59):
and manipulation.
I have worked for owners ofcompanies that were very
manipulative.
I don't stay long at thosecompanies.
If I see that happening, I'mpretty quick to either address
it directly, even though I'm notthe owner, but I will go to the
owner and I will address that.
You know, this is not just meresemantics.
(17:23):
I mean I have to get involvedin that because I can't trust
somebody who is manipulative,and so it really impacts trust
and impacts ethics, and it willaffect the outcome in business
and even in ministry, becauseI've seen a lot of pastors that
are very manipulative.
And so manipulation is not whatwe're going for.
(17:45):
We're going for persuasion.
So let's look at it.
So what's persuasion?
Well, persuasion is the ethicalart of really influencing other
people through transparent andreasoned communication that
respects free will and seeksmutual benefit.
(18:06):
It involves presenting factsand stories and appeals in such
a way that invites agreement.
You know, it often is buildinga stronger relationship even
through the midst of thepersuasion.
Now, what's manipulation?
Well, manipulation, conversely,is really.
It's a deceptive, it's acoercive influence that
(18:31):
prioritizes their self-interestat the other person's expense.
It uses tactics like emotionalpressure or maybe half-truths
they're just giving you a littlebit of truth because they found
that that is helpful to helpthem manipulate you or hidden
(18:54):
agendas to control behavioragainst someone's better
judgment.
And in a Christian context,manipulation I consider it to be
spiritual abuse.
I think it's where leadersforce compliance rather than
inspire voluntary commitment.
You know, simon Sinek said ifwe inspire people, they will
(19:20):
give us more than we ask for.
If we manipulate people, theywill give us exactly what we
paid for.
Uh, carrie West went on to sayemotional blackmail is a
powerful form of manipulation.
It leaves you in a fog wherethere is a haze of fear,
obligation and guilt.
So I hope you can kind of seethe difference.
You know, uh, there's biblicalperspectives on persuasion and
(19:43):
manipulation.
You know, corinthians 5 and 11says since then we know what it
is to fear the Lord.
We try to persuade others andwhat we are is plain to God and
I hope it is plain to yourconscience.
So Paul had a very transparentapproach and that really models
persuasion.
And I think that the Biblereally condemns manipulation.
(20:06):
You know, Proverbs 12, 22 saysthe Lord detests lying lips, but
he delights in people who aretrustworthy.
So manipulation often involveslies or, like I said,
half-truths, and it reallyundermines, you know, the trust.
You know Psalms 101 and 7 saysno one who practices deceit will
(20:30):
dwell in my house and no onewho speaks falsely will stand in
my presence.
Again it rejects manipulativeleaders who use lies.
Colossians 2 and 4 says I tellyou this so that no one may
deceive you by fine-soundingarguments.
You know Paul cautions thepeople in the Colossian church.
(20:50):
He cautions them againstmanipulative what I would
consider to be rhetoric thatsounds appealing but it lacks
truth.
And then Ephesians 4 and 14says that then we will no longer
be infants tossed back andforth by the waves and blown
here and there by every wind ofteaching and by the cunning and
(21:12):
craftiness of people and theirdeceitful scheming.
So this kind of describesmanipulation's instability, and
when you contrast that withpersuasion, persuasion creates a
stability.
So why does this differencematter?
I mean, why does it matter thatthere's this difference between
(21:35):
operating through persuasionand operating through
manipulation?
Well, manipulation may give yousome short-term gains, but let
me tell you something It'll leadto higher turnover rate.
It can also I mean, you have tolook at the legal risk that you
take sometimes too and damagedreputations in your business, in
(21:57):
your personal life, in yourcareer.
You know studies that are outthere right now.
They kind of show manipulativeenvironments reduce employee
engagement for up to 30%.
So, in contrast, you've gotpersuasive leadership.
It really fosters loyalty andinnovation.
You know.
(22:18):
It reminds me of this story.
You know, the day beforeThanksgiving, an elderly man in
Phoenix.
He called his son in New Yorkand said to him he said, hey, I
hate to ruin your day, but Ihave to tell you that your
mother and I are divorcing.
45 years of misery is enough.
You know we're sick of eachother.
So you call your sister inChicago and tell her.
So the son, he's justcompletely frantic.
(22:41):
He calls his sister.
You know she explodes on thephone.
You know, like heck, they'regoing to get a divorce, she'd
shout back and she said I'lltake care of this.
And so she called Phoenix andcalled her parents immediately
and said to her dad.
She said hey look, you are notgetting a divorce.
Don't do a single thing until Iget there.
I'm calling my brother back andwe'll both be there tomorrow,
(23:05):
so until then, don't you do athing.
You hear me, and so you know.
The dad hung up with hisdaughter and he turns to his
wife and he says okay, honey,the kids are coming for
Thanksgiving and they're payingfor their own flights.
So that's an example ofmanipulation.
You know, that's a primeexample of manipulation.
(23:26):
So how do we practice persuasionto avoid manipulation?
Well, you got to be transparent.
You need to focus on mutualbenefit of everyone and you need
to use gentle approaches.
Make sure you employ patience,use your stories, like we talked
(23:46):
about, share testimonies, sothat that'll inspire them, not
coerce them.
You want to inspire them.
It's about inspiration andthese are some, you know,
tactics that you can use toavoid manipulation.
(24:09):
So there's a lot of greatexamples of this.
We had a CRM, a customerrelationship management tool
that was public domain, so youonly paid for things that you
wanted them to do, you got theCRM for free, but you had to pay
for things.
If you wanted them to host it,then you paid for it.
If you wanted them to changethings, you paid for it.
(24:29):
But there came a time to when Inoticed that we hosted our own.
We hosted our own CRM, so itdidn't affect us.
But what I found out was isthey shut down thousands of
people's CRMs for a whole day,for 24 hours, and the reason
that they did it was they saidthere's not enough people that
(24:51):
are giving towards this greatproduct that was free of charge.
And they took donations and,like I said, you paid for the
help that you got, and so,instead of making a plea,
instead of coming and persuadingthem, they shut down every
single CRM instance that theyhosted.
They shut it down for 24 hoursand then said well, how do you
(25:14):
like that?
You know, I think they lostmore people than any of the
amount of money that they couldhave gained.
It was such a turnoff.
It was really a big turnoff forus.
You know, fortunately theydidn't shut us down because we
had our own instance of that CRMon our own personal servers at
work, but there's companies thatdo that kind of thing.
(25:34):
You know Travis Kalanick he'sUber's co-founder and he was
their former CEO.
He resigned in 2017.
But he was notorious forcultivating a very toxic and a
very aggressive workplace.
You know, he manipulatedemployees through intimidation,
through sexism and a lot ofdeceptive practices, and that's
(25:57):
one of the reasons he waspressured to step down as CEO,
you know.
And then there was Adam Newman,who he was the CEO of WeWork.
That's not even in businessanymore.
He was ousted in 2019 becausehe had again this reputation for
being manipulative.
He was a very kind of acult-like leader and he just
(26:18):
exploited employees throughemotion or just impulsive
decisions and putting pressureon them, you know, and it was
just really he was just trying,it was his personal gain at
their expense.
And then, of course, morerecently, elizabeth Holmes.
She was the founder and formerCEO of Theranos.
(26:39):
The company was dissolved in2018, but she manipulated
employees through this cultureof extreme secrecy, very
deceptive intimidation toconceal even at that point, to
conceal her company's veryfraudulent blood testing
technology.
So these are some modernexamples, some modern examples.
(27:02):
So you can see, as leaders,that we need to embrace
persuasion as a godly mandate toinfluence in a positive way for
our businesses, for ourpersonal lives, for our careers
and even for the kingdom of God.
It's a tool to be used to buildteams and to build cohesiveness
(27:26):
, tool to be used to build teamsand to build cohesiveness.
And when you learn, and asyou've learned, that it's
essential and how to apply itbiblically and professionally, I
think you'll be able totransform your leadership,
transform your team.
I believe you can transformyour company or maybe your
department.
But remember, persuasion isn'tabout winning arguments, it's
(27:48):
about winning hearts.
Remember that it's not aboutwinning arguments, it's about
winning hearts.
Father, I thank you for everysingle hearing ear today that
has listened to this podcast and, lord, I thank you for help.
I thank you for the help thatyou give to those of us who've
(28:09):
listened to this podcast.
And we see the differences,lord.
We see the differences betweenmanipulation and persuasion.
Help us to take inventory, lord, of our own selves and to give
an honest assessment todetermine, lord, if we're being
manipulative towards otherpeople for our own good or are
we persuading other people forthe good of others.
(28:32):
Lord, we ask you to help us tobe honest with ourselves and
help us to learn how to bepersuasive versus being
manipulative, and, lord, wethank you for that.
We praise you for it in thename of Jesus Christ.
Amen and amen.
Hey, thanks for downloadingthis podcast for Christian
(28:53):
Business Concepts and forsharing it with four or five
other people.
Well, our time's up today, sountil next time, remember, jesus
is Lord and he wants youblessed.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.