Brian Sanders (Food Lies, Peak Human Podcast) Returns to Talk Keto, Vegan, Whole Foods & More!

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
THEME SONG (00:04):
Down with the heavy stars, rocking, rolling through
the cool guitars. Chuck's gotthe questions, digging so sharp,
peeling back layers, hitting theheart.

Chuck Shute (00:20):
First of all, welcome Brian Sanders, food
lies, peak human podcast, noseto tail products, great stuff
that you're doing. Any updateswith the food lies, film being
released to the public?

Brian Sanders (00:34):
Yeah, we got a production company now, so it's
been a long journey, and now wehave support from the
professionals, two of them werefighting over us, so it's good
to be there, and this positionfinally,

so it will be released. Do we know? Can you
say which platform or when?

No, no idea, still. Yeah, we're putting
together the pieces still, andwe're pitching to Netflix soon.
They think that Netflix wouldbuy it really.

Now, do you think there's going to be pushback
from some of these likesponsors, or some of these
companies that maybe don't wantsome of these things exposed,
such as the big food companies?

Possibly, I've heard that. I mean, I have
personal friends that havegotten ex invited uninvited from
TV shows and news programsbecause their message was
against the advertisers, right?
So it's like they were gonna goon and talk about how bad cereal
is, and then the cerealcompanies pay the bills, right?
So Netflix doesn't really havethe bills paid by big food, so I

(01:42):
think we're okay, right? It's,it's paid for by users and and
people want to see this content.
And I think there's enoughpeople out there with this
message, I mean, all kinds ofcontroversial messages, so I'm
not that worried.

Yeah, was, I think I heard you talking about, was
it Maria Emerick? Emerick, yeah,keto influencer. She was
supposed to become on this TVshow, and then the sponsor said,
No, we don't want that person.
So she got uninvited. That'syeah, yeah, yeah, no. And you
are doing you started out as lowcarb, kind of keto. But I
noticed that you've, you've, Ithink you even mentioned this,

(02:23):
that you've had added some carbsback in. And I thought it was
cool. You shared some of your,you know, one of your basic days
and what you're eating, and oneof the things that you're eating
now is a, not, what is it callednon fortified rice with bone
broth,

yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, yeah, unfortified rice,and you try to get the best
organic source of rice, but theyadd in these fake vitamins and
minerals that you don't reallywant. It's just not in the right
form. And I so I get that kindof rice, and then I cook it in
bone broth, so there's morenutrients, and it's just sort of

(03:01):
a clean source of carbs, if youwant them. Yeah. So I I've been
on an almost 1112, year journey,and I started out by cutting out
carbs, and I lost a lot ofweight and felt better, and it
was amazing. And then I got intothis low carb world and
understood keto and all thisstuff. But I then realized

(03:21):
that's not the only way to doit, and maybe it's not optimal
for everyone. There's all kindsof different situations, right?
And some people want to dodifferent sports, and others and
you can I actually did aPentathlon these five events,
and I didn't even eat that day.
And I was doing it without, youknow, all the gels and the, you

(03:44):
know, people are, like, carvingup and every hour. And I just
did it fasted, which was crazy.
People didn't even understandit. So I was very fat, adapted.
I could do, you know, full ontrack and field events. This was
in Toronto. This is for thechampionships, for the Masters,
the older guy division, but theit was fine, right? And I could
play all the sports. But then Ijust thought, well, what if I

(04:08):
try adding back in the carbs?
And I realized that theprocessing was a problem, not
necessarily the carbs, so Ithought that I was going to gain
weight if I started eating carbsagain, right? Because that's how
I lost the weight. And this is alot of people's understanding is
that, oh, carbs are bad, and I'mgoing to avoid them, and then I

(04:30):
lose weight. And that's notexactly true. I mean, it's a
very good path, and they willhelp people shake up their
habits. Stop eating processedfoods, you know, get rid of
their sweet tooth, getmetabolically flexible, be able
to burn fat, you know, lettingyour body run on fat. But maybe

(04:51):
that's not the end all be all.
So I added the whole food carbsback in, and I didn't gain
weight, and I slept better. And.
And I had, you know, justdifferent improvements in my
life and and so I've been doingthis for almost five years.

Yeah, wow. So that's good to know that,
because that would be one thingthat for me, if I was going to
add back carbs, oh, if I, if Iwas doing full keto, and then
went to because I know that ifyou start keto, you're gonna
lose weight, but then the fearwould be. But then if you gain
carbs back, or if you add carbsback, you're going to gain the
weight. And you didn't. You'resaying,

Yeah, I did not.
And it's, it's a bit hard. Youhave to maybe in the transition
period, your body's like, oh,wait a second, right? You're
giving me carbs again. Sothere's definitely going to be a
little transition. But the mainmessage is, it's not the carbs.
I mean, we've been eating carbsforever, right? There's, I mean,

(05:46):
depends on how backing far backyou go, but even if you go far
back enough, we were eatingcarbs, like, if you, you know,
believe in evolution and allthat, that the ape, the
primates, were eating mostlycarbs, right? That that was
their food source. And then wetransitioned to humans, and our
digestive systems changed. Andthen we were maybe mostly

(06:10):
carnivore for a while. And therewas, you know, a million years
where we were just eating mostlymeat. But then, you know,
there's a long story there. Butour our digestive systems are
very set up, and our bodies areset up to deal with carbs and
fat and anything in between, anyratio, right, depending on the

(06:31):
season and so, yeah, the realproblem is process. Is the
modern processing. That's,that's what's, that's the same
thing with fat. I mean, I don'teat the seed oils. I don't eat
the industrial oils. These arethe modern processed versions of
fat and the modern processedversion of carbs, which is just
sugars and flours and all that.

(06:52):
And that's what I avoid. I stillavoid those things, right?
Sugar, flour oil, that's theeasiest. Wouldn't think about
it, refined grains, added sugar,seed oils. If you don't eat
those, you can probably eat anysort of diet and be okay, right?
It's not the carbs that are thebad part. It was that most
people are eating processedcarbs, right?

Yeah, no, that's, that's definitely but even, I
think we talked a little bitabout this last time, about how
even with some of the goodfoods, right? Like, like, plant
foods or or grains, or whateverit's like, the soil, and then
the pesticides and things arespraying on it. And how, I think
some of the stuff has beengenetically modified, which
scares me so, like, our seeds,like, are not the same as in

(07:38):
Europe. Like, that's why peoplecan eat bread in Europe, but not
here. Even if you have thecleanest bread you could get in
America that didn't have all theadditives and stuff, it's not
the same, right? It'sgenetically engineered
differently,

yeah? And that's like a puzzle that no one can
really pin down, and I think itis the this the type and they
have, like, the heritage breedsof grains, or that they're not
covered in glyphosate here,there's, there's so many ideas
of of why that is. Some peopleeven say it's just because you

(08:11):
go to Europe and you're, you'rewalking more, you know, you're
more active. And there's allkinds of things. But I think
people who are, you know, glutensensitive, are better off in
Europe. So it's not just, youknow, calories and walking and
stuff like that. So, yeah, it'shard. That's why I try to find,
like, the cleanest source ofcars or or, like potatoes. I

(08:34):
mean, these is just kind of likean old school food. I kind of
think of things like my what mygrandparents ate, because you
can also just look back to whenpeople were healthy, healthier.
My grandparents

lived in my to their 90s, exactly. And my
grandma smoked for a lot of heryears too.

Yeah. So she had such good inputs from her diet,
environment and lifestyle thatshe could handle smoking, right?
So that was, like, the one bigbad thing that she was doing.
And the body's amazing, right?
It can, it can detoxify, and itregenerates and does all these
things. So you can handle one ofthose stressors, like smoking.
But, yeah, in our modern day, wehave hundreds and hundreds of

(09:15):
stressors, 1000s, really, justmicroplastics, you know, like
their environment, the sedentarylifestyle, to the bad food, to
everything. It's endless, so youcan't really afford anymore. So,
but yes, we were healthier justlast two generations ago, and
they were eating carbs, right?

(09:40):
They were eating whatever. Theydidn't count calories. They
didn't do all these things. Theywere just eating meat and
potatoes and whatever. You know,I didn't call them, like, old
school vegetables, like, theyweren't eating mountains of kale
and stuff like that, right? Thisis, like, this new concept of,
like, getting, like, millions ofleaves in our diet every. Every
day of the year, and I gotcaught up in that. And I was

(10:03):
doing these kale shakes withspinach and almond milk, and I
had oxalate problems. Yeah, itwas terrible. It like ruined my
skin and probably ruined my gut.
Is really by the root cause ofwhy my face was all red and
messed up, and I have kidneyproblems from that

interesting Carol, can give you kidney issues.

Oh, yeah. Oh, spinach is the worst one.
Spinach is just tons and tons ofoxalates. You can look it up.
This is not like some fringething. It's just like common
knowledge. How many you know,how many oxalates are in a
serving of spinach, and it's offthe charts, and kidney stones
are made of calcium oxalate. Soa lot of vegans get kidney

(10:46):
stones because they're justeating oxalates all the time.
And these are these sharpcrystals that plant protect
themselves with. So, you know,pests don't eat them. And so we
never ate, well, spinach andkale are sort of newer
vegetables. People also don'trealize that a couple 100 years
ago, we didn't have all thevegetables we have today. A lot
of these are modern cross breedsand different things that we've

(11:08):
done, like broccolini orwhatever.

What's that broccolini? Isn't I heard you
talking about

exactly, or even broccoli in general, like
there's tons of that, thesecruciferous vegetables that just
came from the wild mustardplant. And so way back when they
all we had was this stringylittle leaves wild mustard. And
then we turned that intobroccoli and Brussels sprouts
and kohlrabi and cauliflower,all these things just came from

(11:34):
that. So, I mean, I'm notagainst those foods.

Don't they have some benefits too. Don't you
need some cruciferous vegetablesfor certain things?

I mean, you don't need any food really. I mean, I
think you need meat, but youdon't need any like cruciferous
vegetables specifically, theyhave a lot of, probably things
that are helpful, and they haveantioxidants, and they have
folate, and they have somevitamins, for sure, but I mean,
you can get those elsewhere onyou know? I mean, it's not like

(12:06):
you have to eat cruciferousvegetables. You can find those
vitamins and minerals andantioxidants and other foods.
But yes, they are good sourcesof those, and if you're eating
them, my main point was that youfor all of history. We ate them
when they were available in theright amounts, and then I was
doing something very unnatural,which is blending them into a

(12:29):
smoothie every day of the year.
So it's no wonder I hadproblems, right?

It's too much, is what you're saying, yeah.

But I mean, I'm not, I'm not scared of any food
of, like, broccoli, like, I'lleat broccoli. I really do try to
not eat spinach anymore, though,right? It's just, there's just
too many oxalates in spinach,and I specifically have a prong.
But again, if there's, like,Yeah, I'm at someone's wedding
and they have the spinach saladto start off, I'll, you know,
eat some spinach. I don't reallymind.

How does it? So, how did you know you said your
skin changed because you werehaving to what else you said?
How did you have a kidney issue?
Is that just because of theskin, or was there other signs?
Yeah, well,

it took me a long time to figure it out, and then
I had to learn about oxalates.
There's a whole book about it.
If people want to know moreabout this, I interviewed Sally
Norton, so she's a scientistthat wrote a book on this and
has been studying for manyyears. So huge rabbit hole I
had, well, I just noticed thatit was just getting worse and
worse, and I was eating healthy.
I was cleaning up my diet, so Ithought I was doing well, and

(13:30):
that this finishing Kale washelping me, but then that my
skin and my face got worse andworse. It was just like, it was
like, almost like a rash, likered irritated skin, like, not
like acne, it's just like aterrible, like, irritated, flaky
redness. And then I finally, andthen I stopped, and then it went
away, and it slowly, and thenI'd have the flare ups. But then

(13:53):
I really understood what wasgoing on when I cut out oxalates
for probably two years. Then,you know those, AG, one, or,
like, green shake green, yeah,oh yeah. Brogan always
advertises those, yeah. I thinkthey're terrible. I think it's
just a bag of oxalates. It'sjust a bag of concentrated

(14:15):
oxalates. And I figured thisout. Well, no one knows this
because it's kind of hard tofigure out. With food. There's
so many things people just eat,so many things, you never know
what the problem is, right? Andyou could, you could take this
stuff forever, and you neverknow. But I was in a specific
situation to figure this out. SoI got off the oxalates for two
years, right? I stopped theKalen spinach like probably four

(14:38):
years before that, right then?
So I didn't have those then fortwo years, I was still eating
spinach and stuff. Then I then,for two years, I was eating none
of that, right? So my body wasprimed and ready with, you know,
not getting oxalates. I tooksomeone, some company, sent me
the shake. I was like, I'll trythis. You know, I haven't had a

(14:59):
lot of grea. Means, in a while,I woke up in the middle of the
night and, like, past kidneystones, it was kind of like it
was so painful. It was terrible.
It's like small, sort of, itwasn't like actual stones and
but it was like white and likecloudy. And then you can look
this up. This is just, it's justoxalates. It's just like a well

(15:19):
known thing, and it just hurts,and it was terrible. And so I
never drank one of those things.

Again. You know what I've noticed, too. This is
interesting. And again, I mean,maybe everyone has a different
experience with these products,but I had, I think I had one. It
was similar. It was like, Ithink was jockos, jockos greens,
or whatever. And, and I had thatand, and I think you've had this
issue before in the past too, isI would get really bad acid
reflux from drinking thosebecause I don't know if it's

(15:49):
because of the so much sugar init too, or the sweetener. I
don't know what it is, butbecause usually I get acid
reflux from like, more like junkfood, I thought this was, like,
healthy, so I was so confused.
But I don't know what it is, but

it could also just be. I mean, it's irritating
your gut lining the tons ofoxalates and, yeah, that's

so funny, because I swear, AG, one, they advertise
that on almost every podcast,especially health centered
podcast, so that's funny to hearthat. I mean, I believe you too.
I think because it doesn't forme, it does. It hurts to drink
those. I don't like it.

It's not good.
And maybe it can be okay forsome people, though. I'm not
saying like, there's, there's somany nuances to this, right? It
was like, if you're glutenintolerant, don't eat gluten.
But that doesn't mean that someguy in Europe can eat bread. You
know, it's like,

yeah, back to the bread thing. So I was gonna ask
you this, did you, because I hadthis guy on my podcast that
wrote the Dorito effect, did youread that book?

Oh, Mark Schatz was my man. Yeah, all his books.
And interviewed him multipletimes.

Yeah, he's so, so if people go down that rabbit
hole, like, the way he wasexplaining, I mean, I think he
talks about, in the book abouthow, you know, back in the day,
it was like, this, was itVitamin B deficiency? I think

it was one of the B Yeah, there's many B vitamins
I am in, yeah. And then

yeah, so there's two ways to deal with it. And
Europe dealt with it by addingrabbit meat with to eat with
their food or whatever. And thatcured it. And then America is
like, oh, we'll put these Bvitamins in the bread. And I
mean, maybe it's a coincidence,but then I feel like the obesity
epidemic kind of followedshortly after that.

Well, so did you read the end of craving his
newer book? I think, yeah. Moreinto detail if I have read that
one well, so yeah, Drew effectis epic. I love that book. The
end of craving is his newerbook, and it talks way more
about the B vitamins and thefood supplementation, like
you're talking aboutfortification. And that's

(17:55):
actually what I was talkingabout earlier. I was kind of
talking about that concept ofthe food fortification, it
causes problems, and it studiesin pigs, and you should just
read that book, The End ofcraving, if you haven't or
anyone

listening.
Remember, I read two of hisbooks. I don't know if that was
that one. Is there another onethat was about maybe it wasn't
of crazy.

Was the end of craving, because fortification a
lot? Yes, yeah,

maybe that's but I think I've learned that from his
book and from a lot of your workas well that um, and you talk
about this with fiber, becausepeople always say, like, Oh, you
got to have more fiber. And ifyou eat more fiber, you're
healthier. But you're taught youexplain how that, a lot of it is
because if you eat, if you'reeating more fiber, that usually
means you're eating the wholefood, and that's what we need.

(18:41):
We need all of it, all the food,all the when they what they do
is they, when they process it,they split all this stuff up and
they, you're getting bits andpieces, and a lot of it, you're
getting the worst piece of thefood, the cheapest part, that's
easy to produce, right? Andthat's the healthy

Yes. And I just put out an article about this
today. Maybe you saw that I Iwas joke. I'm not really joking,
but nutritionists have one job,and they don't even understand
it. Yeah, the title of myarticle I put out today just an
hour ago, and it's about thisexact concept that people think

(19:19):
that fiber is this magicalsubstance. So again, I'm not
carnivore, right? There's a lotof these carnivore doctors out
there. Chafee Sean Baker, youknow these people saying fiber
is toxic and you need zerofiber, and they're going on and
on. I'm not in that camp, butI'm saying fiber is very

(19:39):
misunderstood. It's not somemagical substance. It's not,
there's not some goal. It'slike, oh, you need to, you need
to get three to eight servingsof fiber per day, or whatever.
You know, they say that withwhole grains, you need to get
this amount of fruits andvegetables, three, you know,
five to eight servings of fruitsand vegetables per day, three to
four servings of whole grain.
This, you know, 25, to 50. Gramsof fiber. None of this makes any

(20:00):
sense, and it's completelywrong. And read the article, if
you're listening, the food liessub stack, and it's, I make the
analogy. It's like thinking thata football team is good because
the fans, right? It's like, oh,we're they're winning. If, if
you're this out, you know, analien looking at like, oh, well,

(20:22):
this team has more and louderfans, and that's why they're
winning. Like, no, it's theopposite. That team is better,
and that that's why they'rewinning, right? And then they
tracked all the fans, so it'skind of like the it's like you
need to understand that, or youdon't understand anything about
football or the real world oranything. And so these
nutritionists, dieticians,doctors, mainstream everything.

(20:44):
The USDA, they don't evenunderstand nutrition. They're
doing the same thing. They'rethey're saying that you just
need to get this certain amountof fiber, and that fiber is what
you're trying to get. And thatis backwards and wrong. It's you
need to get Whole Foods andavoid processed foods, and that
is what's making you healthy. Soof course, all the studies show

(21:05):
that people who eat more fiberare healthier, but then they're
thinking, it's the fiber. Fiberis an indigestible subject. It's
a non nutritive substance. Butagain, okay, you soluble fiber.
Your gut can break it down intobutyric acid, and it feeds your
gut, but it also animal. Youknow, collagen feeds your gut

(21:26):
too, like animal tissue can feedyour gut. Ketones can feed your
gut if you don't eat right, thehuman body's ready for anything.
You only have animal foods.
We'll make. We'll feed our gutlining with collagen. You You're
not going to eat at all, or youdidn't get a hunt, right? You
hunt failed. We'll use ketones.
You're giving me plant matter,okay? We'll use the soluble

(21:48):
fiber, right? It always hassomething to feed its gut. So
it's not like this fiber is thisnecessary thing. Carnivores are
improving it. There's people whohaven't eaten fiber in like, 10
years. I know a lot of thesepeople, and they're perfectly
healthy, amazing. So that. Soagain, there, of course, the
studies show that people who eatmore fiber are healthier,

(22:10):
because that's meaning. Thatmeans people who eat more whole
foods are healthier, and eatingis kind of a zero sum game.
There's only so much you eat ina day. So if you're eating more
whole foods, by definition,you're eating less processed
foods,

right? So in your research, what do you think is
going on with the colon cancer?
Because I just had, it's weird,because I think they used to say
you had to get a colonoscopy atage 50. And then my friend was
saying, Oh, I had to get acolonoscopy. I go, why do you
have an issue or something? Youdon't have to do that to your
50. Goes, No. They change. Goes,no, they changed it. It's 45 and
then when I went to go get it,and they're getting me already,

(22:46):
and I mean, I'm so scared, andthe nurse is telling me, Oh, we
found colon cancer in a kid whowas eight years old. Oh, my God.
So how is an eight year old kidgetting colon cancer? Because
they say that the colon canceris caused by eating too much red
meat. I mean, how much red meatcan an eight year old eat in a
lifetime? I mean eating, likesteak for every meal, and like

(23:09):
injecting those veins? I don'tunderstand.

Well, he clearly wasn't. Yeah. I mean, it's
definitely there must be somegenetic thing there, but that's
definitely an environmentalthing. It's definitely just all
of the toxic things in yourenvironment, or food and
processed foods or theenvironment, right? It must be,
and with this specificsituation, it must be some sort
of

because I don't remember ever. I mean, they're
seeing it in younger and youthat's why they've changed it
from 50 to 45 the guy thatplayed Black Panther. I think he
was only like, 28 when he gotit, and he died it before he was
30 or 31 or so. He was veryyoung. I mean, they're seeing it
in younger it's changing. That'swhat I'm saying. Like, follow
the science. Like my shirt sayswe're following the science. So

(23:55):
the science is like, more andmore people are getting colon
cancer, and supposedly, Ithought we were eating less red
meat. We're following the foodpyramid, right? And people are
eating more bread, sosomething's going on there. But
do we know what's Why is therean increase? I guess is my
question.

Well, that's the best point. That's what I was
going to say, is we're eatingless red meat, and that
statistics prove that over theyears, people have gotten the
message from the higher ups inthe government that we should
eat less. So yeah, it doesn'tmake sense at all. It's, I mean,
I haven't studied colon cancer,I just know it's something to do
with the diet and lifestyle thatwe and we have all these toxic

(24:35):
things in our diet andlifestyle. So it's, yes, like
you said, the bread, it's that'swhat we're eating more of
reading more processed foods,there's just more different
chemicals and and environmentaltoxins. And that makes sense,
that that's what would becausing colon cancer, not the
food that we've eaten for all ofour existence, which is me, it's

(24:57):
just weird that people wouldeven look to the foods. That are
foundational to our nutrition,just any whole food that's been
around for more than 100 years,you just automatically should
not look at that. It makes nosense scientifically. But the
thing is, the who runs thescience, I like the of course

(25:19):
there's $1 sign as a s in yourshirt is, it's the processed
foods. It's Big Pharma. All thebig systems do the studies, and
they have incentive to do thestudies and to pay for them. And
there's no money in Whole Foods.
No, you know, no one's going topay for this study that's trying
to prove, you know, whole foodsare healthy. So it's just
processed food companies and,you know, the whole system

(25:42):
really, that supports Big Pharmaand big food will point to
anything but them, right? Ithink that's the ultimate thing
of why people think meat andanimal foods are unhealthy, is
because it's they need ascapegoat. They figured this out
about 75 years ago. In the 50s,they started blaming saturated

(26:04):
fat on the problems because theyneed a boogeyman. They need a
scapegoat. And they started torealize they I, you know, it's,
I don't know if you'relistening, you know what kind of
tin boy hats they wear.

But they're listening to me. They have to. I
mean, I get called a conspiracytheorist, and I get called
Stupid a lot, which is sofascinating to me, because I
feel like everything I talkabout and what you're saying, if
you start even just doing alittle bit of research, a lot of
this is very out in the open.
It's a lot of, it's commonsense,

it's common sense. It's open. It's just,
it's just money. It's just not aconspiracy. It's just conspiracy
in the sense that, yes, there'sa lot of people making a lot of
money conspiring to keep it thatway.

That's what I'm talking about. We were saying
before we started the episode,we were talking a little bit
about just how, to me, it's justthe hardest part about this
stuff, when you start to learnis like, I mean, I understand
it, so I'm I'll be fine. I'm notworried about myself as much.
I'm more worried about otherpeople. I know it's a crazy idea
to care about people and tryingto convince that, trying to wake

(27:13):
people up like guys, like you'regetting screwed here. You're
you're learning the wrong thing,and then you get called a
conspiracy theorist or stupid oran idiot, or, yeah,

well, yeah, that's how the system's
designed. I've studied thesystem a lot lately, since
covid, I woke up to a lot morethings. I woke up before covid,
to, you know, big food, BigPharma, and all this stuff is
backwards. Then I kind of wokeup even more when I'm like, Oh,
wait, kind of the whole world isa bit backwards. But why? And
then it started making sensewhen you realize that there's

(27:43):
people in charge. There's alwaysa hierarchy, right? There's
always, like a pyramid of ofinfluence and control. Back, you
know, that's just how humanswork. It's even a tribe of
chimpanzees have their littlehierarchy, right? Then, back to
the pharaohs and the slaves.
There's always some hierarchy.
So there's still a hierarchythere. And the people at the
very top, I don't think we evenknow who they are. I think it

(28:06):
goes beyond government. Youknow, it's not like, oh,

Trump, yeah. I think the government is just a
lot of those politicians arepaid for by these powers that
be, the companies, thecorporations

and the powers that be can change. It's not
like, you know, one cabal of thesame people. I think there's
this sort of loose powers thatbe that's kind of pull strings
at a worldwide level. Andthey're, you know, they have the
common interests, and what'sgood for them is bad for you at
the bottom. And what's good foryou at the bottom is bad for

(28:39):
them. Did I say that? Right?
What's, yeah, what's good forthem, making a lot of money is
bad for you, which is just eatthe eat this slop.

Yeah, you mentioned covid. That was interesting,
because I thought that was a bigthing when it came out a couple
years ago that a lot of theinformation about covid was then
the vaccines were wrong. Andthen I got into this argument
with with somebody who and they,they cited the lancet study. And
so I thought, Okay, well, Imean, I don't know a lot about

(29:09):
that's interesting, but I wouldbe suspicious of any of these
studies, because I feel like alot of them are corrupted. Well,
later, I was listening to RFK,which I know, controversial
figure, but he was mentioninghow the editor in chief of the
lancet had said that he feels alot of these studies are
corrupted. The studies and thejournals are not legitimate

(29:33):
anymore because they're in bedwith a lot of these
pharmaceutical companies andcorporations. And I thought, oh,
okay, well, that must be RFKconspiracy. That can't be real.
And then I literally just wenton Google and said, Lancet,
Editor in Chief. And it says,right, people could do it
themselves, Editor in Chief,Lancet, and how he and then
there was, it said there weresome other people, other editor

(29:53):
in chiefs, of these, uh,journals, that said the same
thing. They echoed thoseconcerns. So I don't think this
is concerned. Conspiracy at thispoint, I feel like this is just
fact that a lot of thesejournals are corrupted by the
corporations and the people thatare sponsoring these studies. I
mean, I again, I don't thinkit's conspiracy. I think it's
fact, but you try to convincepeople of this, they don't want

(30:15):
to believe

it. That's by design, so that's how we started
on this. So you're completelycorrect. It's not a conspiracy.
It's, it should be well known,but no one wants to believe it,
and the system is designed tokeep people to just believing
into the in this standardnarratives, right? And that's,
that's just how it works. It'sgenius, too. Even calling

(30:38):
someone a conspiracy theorist,that's like part of the plan
exactly. It's like, if you thinkdifferently, now we have this
label that we're going to put onyou, and now you're discredited.
You know, it's like, oh, youyou're concerned about this new
vaccine. Oh, you're anti Vaxxer.
Now you're just discredited. Youknow, it's

interesting, because I'm not loyal to any one
politician or one person orpolitical party, I literally
just want the truth. I don't ifI'm wrong and I and the truth is
proven that to me, then I'll belike, Oh, okay, well, that's
good to know. I'd like to knowthat because a lot of stuff, I
think I was wrong when I all thenutrition classes that I got an

(31:17):
A in nutrition in college, andactually, the teacher even
invited me to major innutrition, because I was such a
good student and but a lot ofthat stuff that he taught me was
ended up being wrong.

Yeah, well, yeah, I'm open to being wrong. That's
I mean, I was wrong in the sensethat I thought that low carb was
it, yeah, I did all this contenton it, and then I realized that
I was wrong and that I'mhealthier with the whole food
cars. So yes, I mean, I call itcamp no camp, and that's what
I've learned over the years, isI am camp no camp, which is a

(31:52):
bit funny because it's, it's acamp in itself, but, you know,

right? It's like atheist, like, that's kind of a
religion in itself.

Yeah, exactly.
But, yeah, camp, no camp. But, Imean, it's like, humans, when we
kind of, it's our nature to bein a camp. And so my camp that I
choose is camp, no camp. I mean,it's also kind of funny, because
it's, it's poking fun in itself,that it's like, yeah, we can't
be perfect. I'm not. I am justin a camp, but I'm always
striving to be in no camp. It's,it's this, like, I can't be. No

(32:19):
one's completely unbiased. It'simpossible to have zero bias.
Anything that you've done,there's some sort of bias. It's
like I'm living in America. So Ihave some sort of bias for
people who've been born inAmerica, right? So I, but I try
to not, yeah, fall into a campand and to dogma. And I yeah,

(32:40):
that's my goal, and along theway, it's really helped me in in
the nutrition stuff andanything. And yes, I'm open to
being wrong, but there's somethings that I'm fairly certain
I'm not wrong about, right?
There's a foundational truth,and it's usually around nature,
right? There is truth in nature,in human nature, and, well, in

(33:04):
nature in general, right? Thatif you take an animal out of
that, that environment, theydon't do as well. And they, you
know, they had all these thingsin zoos where animals wouldn't
procreate, and they didn't knowwhy. They're like, Oh, we're
giving the tiger the tiger meat,you know? Why isn't it
procreating? It was like, well,it's lonely, it's it's not
hunting, it's not eating thewhole animal. You're just giving

(33:25):
it muscle, meat and some fat.
It's not getting the organs,it's not getting, you know, all
those nutrients. It's notgetting that even experience of
devouring a carcass and huntingit, right? So then they started
giving it like a carcass insteadof just meat, and then it start,
bro, creating, yeah, it's like,Nature doesn't lie, right? There
are, there's foundational thingsto nature. So my new way of

(33:49):
thinking about things is justfollowing nature. Like you can't
cheat nature, right? Soprocessed food is trying to
cheat nature. They're like, Ohyeah, we It has protein and it
has calories in it, and it's thesame as meat. So it's just as
good as meat. It's absolutelyfalse. And they've done a lot of
studies to show that if we'retalking about fake meat, or

(34:11):
these plant based meats, myfriend Dr Stefan von Vliet does
this research with massspectronomy, and they look at
all these meats, and there's70,000 secondary compounds in
foods that are completelydifferent when you're talking
about meat, compared to otherproduct, like fake meat
products. And there's also, wejust know about the

(34:32):
bioavailability, and you know,completeness, of of real meat
versus plant based meat. Sobasically, you can't cheat
nature, right? You can't justcreate like a cow that's living
its life on grass, and there'sso many inputs that have gone
into that that you cannotreplicate. Right? So that's an
example just for food, but thatextends to any part of life. So

(34:54):
if you want to do thoughtexperiments or. Or, or, if
someone tells you, Oh, well,this is the way it is, well, you
can just think, Okay, well, howdoes this work in nature, right?
Like, generally in nature, likethis, is this? Has this been
what we were doing, or is thishow nature works? And if not,
then you have to startquestioning it. But if it does

(35:16):
align with nature, like eatingred meat that aligns with
nature, that's something thathumans have done and helped us
become human, then you can befairly certain that red meat is
not causing colon cancer orheart disease or obesity, right?
You need it's like a sanitycheck. They call it, right? It's

(35:36):
like, I feel like that nutritionworld especially does no sanity
checks. Of like, ah, is it allthese brand new concoctions that
we've created and in the labwith all the engineers, you
know, making it hyper palatableand adding all these crazy
ingredients? Or, you know, isthat the problem? Or is it meat
that we've always eaten? Right?

(36:00):
They're not. They can't eventhink of this.

Yeah, no, it is. I mean, obviously, when I look at
your it's cool that you postedwhat you eat in a day. And I
mean, two, you only have twomeals a day, and they both have
red meat, you have ground beefand grass fed steak. How much
beef and steak Are you eating inthose meals?

As much as I want, huh? No, well, really, I
don't know, and I've nevermeasured it probably like 1010,
to 12 ounces, okay, I try toeat. I mean, it's, yeah, I'll,
I'll definitely need more, likea pound and a half of meat per
day, right? So that's why, Iguess if, yeah, 10 to 12 ounces.

(36:41):
12 ounces would be times two. Is24 that's a pound and a half.
Okay.

And so, because my my gym is always saying, you
know, they want me to get like,200 grams of protein a day. But
then I thought there was athing, like, you're not supposed
to eat more than 50 or 60 gramsof protein in one sitting. Do
you feel? Do you agree withthat? Or think it doesn't
matter.

Well, there's there's a so that was a
conventional thinking that yourbody could only absorb 50 grams
of protein one meal. But there'sa study in the last year, I
think it was probably in thelast year that disproved that,
and you can absorb more than 50grams of protein, so there's no
upper limit, but it might bebetter, probably a little more
optimal, to spread out thatprotein per meal. And I think, I

(37:22):
don't know, your gyms thinkingbehind that. I mean, are you 200
pounds?

No, I'm like 165 I don't know, but yeah, for some
they want me to get, like,mostly, 200 grams of protein.
And I think it's like, whatever,like a little bit less of carbs
and fat. It's always hard to getthe protein. I get the carbs and
fats. I get that right away. Butit's like, protein.

Well, I asked because I don't think people, if
you're not 200 pounds, you don'treally need to eat 200 grams of
protein. I mean, I'm very intoprotein. I'm like, the most
protein forward person possible.
But I would say at 165 you wouldonly need 165 grams of protein
per day, and you could probablyget away with, you know, 150
like, if you if you do 150 like,you will be totally good. And if

(38:12):
you want to eat more, that'sprobably helpful, but not
required.

Would it helped me put on more bulk, though, and
get me real buff. And, yeah,

well, yeah, but you could do that with, well, I
guess they say a gram per poundof of ideal body weight. Okay,
okay, right. So then, if you're400 pounds, then your ideal, you
know that could be differentthan if you're 120 pounds, and
you want to, right? And so Idon't know,

but you don't measure any of that like it says
you're thinking, like you haveno idea on the calories you
think you get. You say youdefinitely get enough protein,
and you have no idea on fats andcarbs. I mean, you can probably
guess if you tell me how much ofthe meat that you're eating and
how much rice, I could probablyfigure out the math. But you've
never, like, what's

a pound and a half of meat? I mean, that
should be enough protein, othersource of protein too, with some
dairy products and stuff, right?
But I did once in my life, I putit in some app so I could know.
And yeah, I was getting like,150 grams of protein a day.
Like, I'm not that heavy. I'mpretty lean, so I'm only, like,

(39:29):
155 probably. And so, yeah, I'mlike, getting around a gram a
pound,

yeah, because you're ripped, I mean, and
you're in your 40s, like me, andyou have a six pack.

Yeah? Check out my photo that I took that photo
on 42 which was a month ago whenI turned 42 Yeah. I mean,
that's, that's what I'm saying.
I'm trying to make it easy. Iposted some of this stuff
recently in response to BrianJohnson, who's, you know, the
don't die guy. He's the. Afamous guy that I think is just
kind of gimmicks and salesman,and he is kind of the opposite

(40:05):
philosophy of I just want totake, go away from nature as
much as possible, taking 100supplements per day. He's afraid
of the sun, he's pale, he'svegan. Actually, he's doing just
everything. The opposite hiswhole life, is tracking and
doing really unnecessary thingsand obsessing over everything.

(40:29):
And I have the exact oppositephilosophy. I'm, you know,
eating mostly meat and animalfoods. I don't track anything. I
don't stress about any of thisstuff. I spend very little time
per day on any of this. I don'twant need to spend hours and
hours in the gym. I only spendone hour per week in the gym,

(40:50):
and that's why I posted thatphoto, that I have great results
from 60 minutes per week in agym. It does not need to be
super hard and time consuming.
You can, if you want, if youlike, going to the gym, then do
it for longer. And so, yeah, Ihave this philosophy that you

(41:10):
shouldn't need to track and youshouldn't need to stress over
all this stuff, and you can keepit simple, and doesn't have to
be expensive, doesn't have to beyour full time job like Brian
Johnson, it's simple,

yeah, let's talk.
Let's break that down. I want toget back into more of what you
eat. But also you mentionedsomething I don't think we
talked about this last time, isthe sun, and that's something
that I noticed. I don't know ifthis is what happened, but I
mean, I've been pretty strict onmy diet and everything. I went
on this road trip, and I was noteating very healthy, because I
was on a road trip, right? But Inoticed when I got back, I was
like, I was scared to get on thescale and everything. And I was

(41:47):
like, Ooh, it's gonna be bad.
And I looked, and I went, whatmy body fat went down, I think,
like two and a half percent. Ithink I gained like two or three
pounds of muscle mass, and thisis by not working out and eating
and not eating well. But Ifigured, this is my theory. Is
the one thing is, I was in thiscar all day, and I was it was a
sun, it was sunny, and I was inthe car for like, eight or 10

(42:10):
hours a day, and I was getting alot of sun and vitamin D. Do you
think that is something thatwould help synthesize muscle or
protein better or make mehealthier. I just couldn't
figure out just taking a break,maybe my body.

Yeah, I don't I'm not going to say there's any
direct evidence that that wouldhelp you, like, build muscle,
especially, or lose weight. Ivery confident that vitamin D
helps your health in general. Sothere could be some pathways of
you are deficient in vitamin D,probably a bit, and then you you

(42:47):
got a bunch of that in yourbody's like, yes, we are going
to work better. Our immunesystem is going to be better.
All of our processes are work,but our hormones are going to
work better. Vitamin D is reallya foundational part of the
hormone process, right? So theyactually could be maybe in your,
you know, maybe yourtestosterone went up during that
week, and you could synthesizemore muscle from the protein

(43:11):
that you were eating. So if youjust, you know, you were getting
probably protein. You wereprobably eating bad foods, but
you're still getting protein.
Yeah, still getting your proteinin and yeah, for that could be
what happened. But vitamin D ingeneral, the sun is just huge.
For so many things. I get my sonpretty much every day. I have,
like a routine of going downit's I'm in Austin. I have this

(43:33):
sort of apartment complex poolthing. I go lie down and I read
and I get about 18 minutes ofSun per side. You know, I turn
over and I haven't been sick,and I don't know, nine years, I
yeah, it's been amazing. Why? SoI did a lot of things at once. I

(43:55):
changed my diet, right? I gotrid of the processed foods, ate
more animal foods, and I got inthe sun, and I don't know what
else to attribute it to, other

than that. So did nine years. So if I'm doing the
math, and did you never getcovid?

So that's the thing. So I did supposedly get
covid, and I didn't really getsick, like I had sort of a bit
of a rough weekend. I rememberit was so what happened is, it
was two and a half years aftercovid. I didn't get a single I
was like, trying to get covid. Ididn't care at all. I just I, I

(44:31):
just knew it was just all kindof overblown. And from day one,
I was dating this nurse, and shewas kind of telling me, oh, it's
not as bad as you think. It'sboth. You know, she's kind of
giving the inside scoop, and Iwas just hanging out with her
every day, and she came from thehospital in downtown LA with the
covid patients. And then I wouldjust hang out with her, and I
didn't even care. And so nothinghappened for two and a half

(44:54):
years. And then I went home toHawaii. I Yeah, traveling was.
Beat down by the flights and notsleeping and eating poorly. I
went to a wedding, and, youknow, was drinking at this
wedding, and on the flight home,I think I got on the flight
home, and then, just because mybody was so run down, you know,
I was just sort of illustratingthat, really, if, if I'm just

(45:17):
doing my normal thing, I justdon't get sick, nothing happens.
People say they're sick, and I,I'm with them, and nothing
happens to me, right? I thinkthat's how the immune system
works, if it's just getting sofew people get all that they
need, right? So few peoplegetting the right diet and
vitamin D and all this stuff.
And if you do, it's justamazing, and you just don't get
sick. So I wore down my body. Iwas so then on the plane, I, you

(45:39):
know, my body, I guess, got thevirus, and I don't know my head
hurt, and I just felt a littleweird. But that was it for, you
know, I didn't miss any work. Idon't really count that as being
sick. I was gonna do thatcaveat, but I chose not to.
Sometimes, when I tell the storyof me not getting sick in nine
years, I do the give the caveatof, well, you know, 2024 I had a

(46:00):
bad or 2023 I had a bad weekend.
But other than that, no, wow.
And I used to get sick all thetime. My whole life. I was just
normal. Get sick every threemonths, you know, get the flu,
get all these different thingsthroughout the year, and then it
just completely stopped.

Yeah, I I've been starting to eat, like, I've been
way more strict on my diet, andall a lot of this stuff. And I
can't remember the last time Iwas sick besides covid. I think
after covid is when I reallybuckled down. I was like, I got
to start eating better and doingbetter. And so I'm trying to
remember last time. I can'tremember. It's weird. And you
see, yeah, you see the peoplethat that if they don't take

(46:44):
care of their health, they getsick much more frequently, yeah.

And it's yeah, it's just that's how the immune
system works, right? If it'strying to fight off all these
bad inputs, it's not going to bealso able to fight off some sort
of virus that comes around,right?

Well, so, and going back to what you eat in a day,
it's a lot of ground beef andsteak, and then there's some
cheese and eggs. And then theother thing that I was going to
ask you about was, so, becausethis seems to be a thing I see a
lot of is pickles andsauerkraut. So fermented foods
explain. What is the benefit ofthat on gut health? Because I
think that's something that's Ididn't realize that they're

(47:23):
saying gut health is related toyour mental state. Like a lot of
people with gut health issues,that's the cause, could be the
cause of their depression, whichis crazy

to me. Oh yeah, yes, your gut is your second
brain. There's a huge gut brainaccess. This has been studied in
the last, say, 10 years, a lotmore, and it's pretty
incredible. Yeah, you're like,you're feeling in your gut. I
mean, that is a real feelingthat is sort of like you have
nerve endings, you actuallycreate serotonin in your gut,

(47:54):
right? So people would know thatfrom the feeling good chemical.
And if you Yes, if you have badgut, if you're eating terrible
food, low serotonin production,depression, yes, it all makes
sense. So the I think there'smany benefits to fermented
foods. It's not all justprobiotics, right? That's one of
the things that people knowabout, right? Sauerkraut, tons

(48:17):
of probiotics. And that's onebenefit. Another benefit is that
it kind of reduces some of theanti nutrients, like we talked
about oxalates, there's otheranti nutrients in plants, and
fermenting them will get rid ofsome of those. Another benefit
is they're just really low carlow calorie in general. You

(48:37):
know, I don't count calories oranything, but they're like, I
call them free foods, likepickles and sauerkraut if you're
trying to lose weight, or evenif you're not, you can eat
unlimited pickles andsauerkraut. Like you would get
sick of pickles and sauerkrautbefore they had any sort of
anything to do with your weightgain. Like, they do not

(48:59):
contribute towards fat gain,right? They really contribute to
fat loss. They're really kind ofthe opposite. They are. They're
volumous. They like, we'retalking about Whole Foods
earlier, like, what's thebenefit of fiber? Is the fact
that it's it means you're eatingintact foods, right? So the the
benefit of fiber is not thefiber, it's the intactness, and

(49:22):
that means, by definition, it'snot processed, so it's not
stuffed with extra sugar, flourand oil. But it's also your body
recognizes it as a whole foodthat it and it has even a volume
like people eat. Humans eatabout three to five pounds foods
per day, depending on your sizeand weight and stuff no matter
what, and so you you kind ofneed a volume of food to feel

(49:46):
satisfied, and your stomach hasstretch receptors and stuff. So
eating fermented foods likepickles and sauerkraut, it's
super low calorie or low energy,and it has zero processed
energy. And you. You are full,and you get probiotics, and you
get some nutrients, right? Ithas different nutrients in them,

(50:08):
vitamins and minerals. It'slike, it's ultimate food. So
that's good if you're here,hearing people are eating it,
yeah? I heard Yeah. RFK wastalking about, that's, you know,
what he eats. He eats like, meatand fermented vegetables. It's
becoming a popular thing. I'dlike to say I'm proud that I've
been doing this for over 10years of just eating a lot of
meat and fermented foods. I goton early.

But yeah, yeah, that's interesting. And yeah,
you mentioned the RFK, andthat's one thing. Like, again,
I'm in camp. No camp. I thinkRFK brings up a lot of really
interesting points. But one ofthe things he does that I don't,
I'm not a fan of personally, isis he takes a lot of people at
my gym do this as well as theythey take the artificial
testosterone just because Idon't want to be reliant on, oh

(50:53):
yeah, pharmaceuticals, because Ithink kind of, once you start
that path, it's, I don't thinkyou could, if you Stop taking
it, then I think your body shutsdown, making it naturally. So
one thing that I think that'scool, that that you do, that you
don't promote a lot ofsupplements and things like
this, but you talk about thisoyster supplement, that's you
said, it's increased yourtestosterone naturally. And I'm

(51:16):
very curious about this. I takea zinc supplement, but I think
I'd rather just take this. Itsounds really awesome. Explain
what this supplement is. Ilisten to the podcast with the
guy who makes it. It's really

cool. Yeah, Steven from Ireland, yeah. I'm
really into this stuff, and Ialmost don't count as a
supplement, because usually asupplement is a refined and
isolated thing that you take,and this is just a whole food
that is dehydrated and put intoa pill. So I guess, yeah, you
know, it's a supplement, butit's

kind of not if you took steak and put it into
powder, then,

yeah, it's kind of real food to me, but it's
just easier, yeah, and trying toeat oysters, I tried to just eat
oysters, and it's just like Iwasn't doing consistently. So
when I just took these pillsthat I started making with
Steven, and took themconsistently, I felt the
difference. It's the onlysupplement I've ever taken where

(52:13):
I felt the difference and I sawthe difference in my numbers. So
I got some blood tests a coupleyears ago. So this is not like a
perfect test, but I didn't. Ihaven't changed my diet in two
years. Like, like, I changed itprobably four or five years ago,
like I said, adding more carbs,but in the two years I didn't
change it, and only thing I didwas eat the oysters, and my

(52:34):
testosterone went up to, like, Ihave, like, a top 1%
testosterone for 42 year olds inthe in the country. And I, you
know, I just feel amazing. Youcan, you can feel it. And it's
definitely just the oysters, andthey have a lot of zinc, but
it's a bio, bio available zinc,right? It's from a real source I

(52:55):
don't trust, like a supplementalform of zinc. But maybe even
more important is that it's hasthe CO factors. So because it's
a whole food, it's an oystersare incredible source of
nutrition, like only liver beef,you know, any sort of ruminant,
liver is the only thing thatcompares to oysters. Oysters are

(53:15):
the very top of nutrient densityand just hard to get nutrients.
It has tons of selenium, copper,well, B, 12, iron. That mainly
the hard to get nutrients wouldbe the zinc and the Selenium and
the copper that those three, alot of people are deficient in
those, and they're kind of COfactors to a lot of these

(53:36):
things. In general are cofactorsfor making your testosterone. So
you can look that up online, youknow. Like, how is zinc involved
in testosterone production? Youknow? It's very involved. So it
makes sense to me. I heard thatoysters were after D jacks, you
know. And I thought it was kindof bogus. I'm like, Oh well,
that's just some stupid oldthing, wives tale type of thing.

(53:56):
But like, Oh no, no, it's true.
It's just that most people aredeficient in zinc and probably
selenium and copper. And whenthey eat the oysters, all of a
sudden they're getting a littlefrisky, you know, like it makes
sense, their body is ready toreproduce because it's getting
all this nutrients. So I thinkthe vast majority of people are
out there nutrient deficient,zinc deficient, and as just an

(54:18):
isolated zinc supplements notgoing to do that. What oysters
can do,

yeah, and, I mean, I think the other thing that
zinc would do is it helpsimmunity. And then another thing
that you talked about, which Ithink your your dad and my dad
both had prostate cancer, andzinc could actually, that's in
these oyster supplements couldprevent prostate

cancer, hmm, I didn't even look into that one,
actually.

Oh, I thought I heard that. I thought that was,
I thought I got that from yourpodcast. I think that's

what Steven said, Actually, yeah, okay, yeah. So
it's crazy,

because I remember my dad. I remember this vividly.
I think it was in the 90s or theearly tooth. 1000s, and there
was a lot of talk of soy, andsoy is the new miracle food. And
he was, he goes, I guy, Iremember, I remember him saying
this specifically, well, I hopethey don't ever find out soy is
bad for you, because we'reeating a lot of soy right now.

(55:14):
Because he thought that wasgoing to be the thing. That was
because it prevents it. I thinkit does prevent certain types of
cancer, but I think it may havecontributed to prostate cancer.
I think it

could cause anything good. I think, yeah,
it's more estrogenic. It's likethe opposite of testosterone,
and testosterone is what, yeah,what you need, what men need,
and women need it to women needsome testosterone. Yes, I'm not
a fan of soy. I think that wasjust like a big kind of
marketing campaign, or justwrong ideas for one reason or

(55:50):
another, right so many things innutrition are backwards. Yeah,
I'm not a fan of silly.

Yeah. And I wonder, is there a connection with soy
and breast

cancer? I think I've heard that, yeah, again,
like, it's super hard. I neversay I'm certain about anything
these days, right? And there'sstudies that show all kinds of
things. I don't even trust theresearch, but there probably is
some. I think I have heardthere's this good correlation
between soy and breast cancer.
Because, again, it's, it's notnatural. It's like, if you're if

(56:23):
it's a very estrogenic thing,even, I mean, women need
estrogen, but not in the wrongform or in excess, you know,
with all these soy products,yeah.

Because I wonder too, like, I think maybe
initially the thought was theystudied some Asian cultures, and
there was a high lot, a lot ofsoy in there, and they didn't
get cancer. But it's probablythe other things that they were
eating, and they were probablyalso getting the soy, and the
soybean natural form, not somesort of weird processed, you
know, took out all the nutrientsand just put the soy and stuff

exactly. Well, that's a good point. See, that's
what I'm saying. Is there, therecould be other studies
correlating soy with betterhealth. That's why it's like, I
don't trust any of thesestudies, because, yes, Asian
populations do a million goodthings. Yeah, that besides
eating soy, soy is just sort ofthis. They just have that
around, and it's just somethingthey eat, and it's has some

(57:21):
protein in it and is along forthe ride in their healthy diet
and lifestyle.

Yeah, no. And I think the best advice I can give
to people about all this stuffand food and supplements or
whatever is like, you know, trythings, take to you know, try
keto, try vegan, and see how youfeel. Because I think a lot of
this stuff, you can you can feelit even shortly after you eat
it, or if you stick to it for afew days or a week or two, like,

(57:48):
you'll notice it like, I know,for me, I tried the vegan diet
because I heard so many things.
Oh, that's so good for you. Wetried me. And my girlfriend both
tried it, and she doesn't dowell because it's a lot of soy
in the vegan products, and shedidn't do well with her
digestion system, and I gainedweight. I was like, wait, I
mean, I'm not eating any meatand I'm gaining weight. I was
like, this makes no sense to me.

Well, makes sense to me, because it's not a human
diet. It's and, yeah, I thinkthere, there's something to the
nutrient to energy ratio, whichmaybe I shouldn't have brought
up. There's not enough time todo it justice. But that's what I
think the ultimate thing is,especially camp, no camp, it's
like, okay, there's a milliondiets out there, throughout
history and throughout theworld, and some of them are good
and some of them are not sogood. And it comes down to

(58:33):
nutrients and energy. And Imentioned energy earlier as what
I mean by that is that calories,like, sort of like energy.
Calories, fats and carbs mainlyare energy, calories, and then
nutrient calories, protein,vitamins and minerals. And if
you're looking at the balance ofthose two, like, you want high
nutrients and then the correctamount of energy, right? Like,
are you active? You know? Like,what age are you? All these

(58:56):
things matter, how much energyyou need today to get through
the day. And so most people aredoing the opposite. It's like
they're low nutrients, highenergy, right? So they're
eating, and that's kind of whata vegan diet is. It's a lot of
energy and one lot of nutrients.
Or you're if animal foods havethe best nutrients, they have
the most complete, vitamins andminerals and protein, and then
it so you're just eating. So itmakes sense you would gain

(59:19):
weight somebody, if you're like,fruitarian and just starving
yourself, yes, you can. Youknow, you can lose a lot of
weight too, and a lot of muscle,but you generally that makes
sense, that you ate too muchenergy compared to your
nutrients. So your body, this iskind of part of Mark Schatzker
and the Dorito effect stuff isthat, right, your body eats to

(59:39):
get enough nutrients, and

if you just keep eating, if it doesn't have the
nutrients in there exactly.

So, yeah, I put together my kind of master
theories through guys like DrTed naman, who people should
look up. He's amazing. Justfamily medicine doctor that
really gets it. Talks aboutprotein leverage hypothesis, and
I. Which is kind of on this isanimals, all animals, from
locusts to mice to humans, eatto a certain amount of protein,
and they'll keep eating untilthey get that protein. So if

(01:00:09):
your food is protein devoid,which is all processed food is
pretty much deficient inprotein, you will keep eating.
And therefore you will eat toomuch energy, and you will store
that as fat. It's very simple.
When you, like, zoom out anddon't get caught in a diet camp,
and you just realize, okay, Ineed to look at nutrient to
energy and do this properly,because my body's going to eat

(01:00:32):
until it gets these nutrientsanyway. And that's and what
really what you arrive at is thediet that I eat, which is meat
and Whole Foods. It's, it's kindof like proving the nutrient
energy thing is kind of justproving why we need to eat this
kind of diet, which I callsapien, which is just, you know,

(01:00:52):
animal foods as a foundation andthen Whole Foods, yeah,

Chuck Shute (01:00:59):
or, I mean, like I said, if people don't believe
us. They can try for themselves.
Try vegan for a week, try keto,try whole food, try three or
four of these things for like, aweek, or two or three or
whatever, and find out foryourself. See how you feel. Did
you lose weight? Did you gainweight? Did you you know? Did
you have more energy? Just sleepbetter? But yeah, I mean,
obviously you're on the righttrack. You've done tons of

(01:01:19):
research on this stuff. You gotthe podcast, the film's coming
out. I mean, I don't knowanybody else that's researched
this stuff more. And like Isaid, You're not trying to prove
a certain side. You're in camp,no camp, which same as me. So
it's great stuff. I look forwardto seeing the film soon,
hopefully somewhere available,Netflix. Or is there another

(01:01:39):
possibility? It might be

Brian Sanders (01:01:43):
somewhere else? I have no idea. At this point.
We're really early. I thinkwe'll get on a major platform.
It's a six part series, if notNetflix, and maybe we would just
go on Amazon Prime. I don't knowif that's going to help more or
less people watch it. We're justconcerned about getting the most
amount of people watching it.
And then also, I want to followup. Nose to tail is the oyster

(01:02:04):
pills. So that's yes, mycompany, that's we make them at
nose to tail.org, and yeah, I,I'm, I'm in the camp. No, camp.
I really don't have an agenda.
It's like, I'm just trying tomake food lies. I My sapien
philosophy is just followingnature, basically. And if so,

(01:02:27):
you know, it's not a campreally. It's just like I'm in
reality. Camp.

Camp, reality. I love that truth, right? It's
cool to see a lot of peoplewaking up to this stuff. But
again, I feel like that, to me,that is the biggest challenge is
not necessarily even fightingthese big food corporations or
even the government or all thisstuff. It's like getting the
average person to wake up andbelieve this stuff. Because if

(01:02:53):
we all felt this way, trust me,things would change quickly.
Because if it's all of usagainst them, they'll do what we
they don't want to go out ofbusiness. So if everyone stopped
buying, you know, these cerealsand sugary I mean, they would
figure out a way to make ithealthy.

Brian Sanders (01:03:10):
Yeah, it happens.
It happens. So,

yeah, well, awesome. I'll put your links in
the show notes, and people canfollow you on Instagram. One of
the, my favorite Instagramaccounts for sure, and great
podcasts and everything thatyou're doing, I appreciate all
the work that you're doing, andthanks for doing my podcast.
Awesome. Yeah, thanks, man. Allright, see you later. Brian,
yeah, bye, bye, every

THEME SONG (01:03:35):
topic, one of a kind, from the rockets to the
wise men, soon be late. And fallsoon we learn again. You.

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