Cliff Rigano Discusses Dry Kill Logic's Comeback, New Music, Shows & More!

Episode Transcript
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THEME SONG (00:04):
Down with the heavy stars, rock and rolling through
the cool guitars shops got thequestions digging so sharp,
feeling back layers hitting theheart.

Chuck Shute (00:20):
Thanks so much for doing this. I appreciate it.
Yeah,

Cliff Rigano (00:22):
no worries, man, thanks for having

me. Yeah, welcome to the show. So getting the band
back together, right? Becausethere's been a

hiatus, there has been a hiatus,

yes, yeah. So what do you been up to? Oh,

man, it's just wild living life, like everybody
else, you know, we've, we'veall, you know, we're all still
good friends, so we still hangout and see each other, but, you
know, we just weren't jamming,and we decided, you know, gosh,
maybe back in 2000 16,017, tostart writing again, which
produced, you know, a collectionof singles. And then,

(00:56):
invariably, it led us back tothe stage, which leads us here,
you and I talking together?

Yeah. So the new single is called now you belong
with the dead. That's a greattitle. Who is that about? Is
that about someone specific?

No, it's about everything and everyone. You
know, that's the way most songsare these days. But no, I
appreciate that the title isactually taken from a line in
the horror movie The Mummy. Thefull line is, I loved you once,
but now you belong with thedead.

Well, okay, so which mummy, though, because
there's like the Brennan Fraser,and then there's like the

old, the original, the original, original, yeah,
the original, yeah, whateverthat was. So

you're like, You're a big horror movie fan, then,

not necessarily the hugest, but that line stuck
out to me when watching it.
There was just an eloquenceabout it. It summed up, you
know, so many emotions. Itsummed up the emotion of rage,
it sums up the emotion ofclosure, it sums up the emotion
of moving on. And I just thoughtit to be an incredibly poetic
way to express yourself. So theline just stuck with me once I

(02:03):
heard it.

No, that is a great line. Do they get a songwriting
credit?

Well, thankfully, it's the original, so I think
we're out of any copyrightconcern,

yeah. Because what years out of that's got to be
like, Was it my 30s or 40s or

something, something like that, yeah,
that's what I mean. Like theoriginal 1930s version of the
mummy that, you know, theheroine says it, you know,
that's how, that's how old itis. You know, it's identified as
the heroine in the in the movie,yeah, do you go back

and watch a lot of those old movies? Or is this
like something that you justremember from watching as a kid,
or whatever.

You know, I remember reading the line
somewhere as part of a script.
It was just something I wasreading anecdotally about that
movie, and just, I don't know, Iwas down a bit of a rabbit hole
when I was reading about it.
Just kind of, I don't know. Ithink, I think really, just the
way the script was written inthis clip was what got me and
then I just caught that line,and I was like, Man, that's just

(03:02):
an awesome turn of phrase, rightthere. And it just stuck with
me, you know? And then we neededa title, and it seemed to be a
perfect compliment to thesubject matter. So, yeah,

no, that's perfect.
I love that. I love that kind ofstuff. I love stuff too, that
that stands out, because thatstands out a little bit, you
know what I mean? Like, there'sa lot of songs that, because I'm
a big hair metal fan, I'll admitit, but like, there's a lot of
hair metal songs that have thesame title. You know what I
mean? Like, the bands, like,I'm, like, Wait, there's already
a song called that. You couldn'tcome up with a different, you
know, title for that. Like, it'skind of, it's annoying when

(03:36):
things are too just, yeah,cliched, I guess, right?

Yeah, this one definitely felt like it had
something unique about it. So,

yeah, is that what you look for as well when you're
when you're writing music,because, I mean, you, your band
has a cult following, like a lotof people really appreciate the
music that you're making. It ismore like and when I listen, it
sounds more original. It doesn'tsound like you're trying to
sound like someone else. Soundlike someone

else. Well, I appreciate that. I mean, I
think, you know, ultimately, youknow, to your point, there's so
it's very difficult to have anoriginal thought these days,
right? There's a lot of brainpower in the world thinking
about the same subject matter.
So, you know, song titles, Ithink, can very easily become,
you know, duplicative when you,when you when you think about

(04:24):
it, you think you have a goodsong title in a lyric or in a
moment, and then all of asudden, you search it in
Spotify, and there's 37 songswith the same title. It's like,
Oh, man. But again, it's like,sometimes you really just happen
upon these turn of phrases thatare, are turns of phrase that
are really interesting and butthat one just happened to stick
out. And, you know, we've had acouple of those, I think,

(04:46):
throughout the band's kind ofdiscography where the titles
were really informed bysomething special. You know, we
just tried to hold on to it.

Yeah. So sometimes when you're having a right.
Session, you you'll kill ideas.
If it's something that hasalready been done before, it's
too cliched.

Well, you know, I mean, it's interesting, right?
It's like, lyrically, I thinkthat there's subject matter
that, you know, it's easy torehash. So there's a diligence
that goes into like, what is itthat we want to say? What's the
most interesting and compellingway to say that? And then, you
know, how do you kind of make itunique and your own when we

(05:27):
think about, like, you know,chorus lyrics or song titles, or
the things that you will justkind of instantly find salient
when you're let's do a songlike, Oh, I remember the song
title, I remember the thechorus, I remember key phrases
throughout the song. I thinkthose things are always
important. As a writer, you wantto make sure that you have these
lyrical moments for people togravitate towards within that

(05:50):
message, right? Because you wantto, you know, have a certain
perspective or give a certainpoint. But how you do that, I
think, is really interesting. Idon't know if there's any right
or wrong way or good or bad wayto write a song or a lyric, or,
you know, any of that, there'sjust what works in the moment in
the song that you're writing,and what can potentially be a
song later on. So, you know,we're writing something, and I

(06:13):
have a lyric and it doesn't fit.
It doesn't make it bad or wrong.
It just means it doesn't fit forright now. So put it off to the
side, and then when we startwriting the next song, we can
start around that phrasing orthat emotion or that note, and
then begin the journey again.
And then that'll be perfect. So,you know, it's just an exercise
of finding what's the right fitat the right moment.

So you can start within it. You can start with a
lyric, or could start with ariff, or could it do the songs
ever start with A for you guysthat ever start with a drum beat
or, like, just something totallydifferent,

you know, you typically, how we write is, you
know, the instrument bearingmembers of the band, generally,
Jay and Brendan will gettogether, and they have riffs
and structures and thoughtsabout what the songs should look
and sound like. You know, theystart to take shape, really,
with them, kind of justhammering out the parts that
they have. Now I might have alyrical idea or a progression,

(07:07):
or, Hey, I want to start a songlike this, or hey, man, I have
this idea about going from a,you know, a three chorus to a
chorus, and we do a stop, andthen I do say this word and hold
this note. So it's like, veryformative. It's very loose, it's
just kind of directional,generally, they'll shape out,
you know, a song, and kind ofhammer out the parts, and then

(07:28):
from there I get it, and I startto think about phrasing and
syllables and note structure.
And then the song continues toevolve. The lyrics continue to
evolve. And then everything kindof starts to form. You know,
once we have a structure, andonce we say, okay, the notes
will go here, and they'll go inthis pattern, and these will be
the syllable placements, andthese will be the, you know,
where we put the words, andthese will be where we don't put

(07:50):
words, then you could start tofit a particular message into
that phrasing. And then youstart to think about how it how
it sounds when it's in thatphrasing. You know, do I have
enough? Do I have enough time toexpress a thought? Do I need one
two lines instead of one line,you know? And because you don't
want it to be like, just short,Poppy sentences, you want to
have a coherent thought when youread the lyrics, like, Oh, this

(08:12):
is about something, or, youknow, motivated by something,
or, you know, intentionallyabout something. So,

yeah, that's, I'm always fascinated by the
songwriting process. Like, Iheard one of my cohort
podcasters use the phrase. Inever heard this phrase before,
but he's, like, change a word,get a third. Like, do you guys
have because it sounds like foryour band, it sounds like it's
more collaborative, whereeveryone's kind of working, like
not somebody's just changing oneword and gets the songwriting
credit.

Yeah. I mean, you know, we're all kind of
diligently working on the songitself. And, you know, we don't
necessarily think so much about,you know, that piece of it, per
se, I think that as long aswe're all working and standing
in service of the song, thencontributions are equal, getting
into a place where it feels goodif we're all working on it

(08:58):
together, it's not necessarilyabout, oh, I contributed this
piece, so I just, it's justabout, let's make the best song
possible, and if we're allcollectively working towards
that, then we're all in the boattogether.

Yeah, do you like that process the best of because
to me, that would be, I mean,I'm not musically talented. I
wish I was, but if I was, I feellike that would be the coolest
thing is creating something new,like making new songs. I guess
performing would be fun too,though, because then you have
the crowd and you can see theirreaction.

Yeah. I mean, I, you know, for us, and again, I
can only speak for us, andreally, you know, primarily for
myself. But I think we enjoythat the act of writing that
song together. Like, whenyou're, you know, when you're a
kid and you're in the room withyour friends, and like, you'd
play a riff, you're like, that'sthe best riff, and you bash out
a drum beat, like, that's thebest drum beat. You know, that

(09:51):
kind of, like, whimsical childlike, emotion still exists, even
though we're old men now, butthe idea of, like, you play a
riff, you're like, god damndude, that's all. Awesome. And
then, you know, kick in with thebass, and then drums kick in.
You're like, holy shit, listento this thing. And then, you
know, it's like, wow. Whichwords here? You know, this would
be awesome. It's like, thatmomentum is, like, where the

(10:13):
real excitement is? Because, tobe fair, if you're moving at
that level, then you're movingwhen you're recording it in the
same direction, and then whenyou're playing it live, you're
excited, and then the audienceis like, Whoa, you're killing
it. Like it all kind of has tostart there, so we focus all our
efforts at that part, because ifwe can get the ball rolling
there, then everything movesquite seamlessly. But yeah, to

(10:34):
your point, you play it live,and that's kind of like the end
result. That's the payoff, youknow, is when people are like,
going nuts to it. You're like, Iknew it. I knew. Yeah, you know.
But

so do you ever get disappointed, though? Because,
like, to me, just in terms of apodcast, like, there's times
where it's a similar kind ofthing, like, I book a guest, and
I'm really excited. I got thisguest on, and then I started
doing the research, and I getthe questions, like, Oh, I got
the best questions for this guy.
And then I do the interview, andI leave the interview and I go,
Oh my. It's like, a high, like,I just, like, I just killed this
interview. It's so amazing. Andthen you put it out to the

(11:04):
world, and then, yeah, like, thecharity on top is, like, if
people actually watch it andcomment and say, Oh, that was
great. But then sometimes youget the opposite, either no one
watches it, or people commentand say, you suck as an
interviewer. These questions areterrible. And you get all these
trolls. You're like, shit. Okay,well, I just piss people off.
Well,

you know, I mean, I think ultimately, right, like,
and I'm sure you'd agree youprobably have to miss the mark
pretty badly to think that it'slike, amazing, and then all of a
sudden, everybody's like, Dude,this is the worst thing you've
ever

done. How did I miss that?

But again, you can't really control how people
react to stuff, and that's thething, right? You can just know
that you've controlledeverything that you can control.
You're proud of the output. Youbelieve in the questions, you
believe in the answers that yougot. We believe in the songs
that we wrote and the messagesand the intention. Maybe people
just didn't get enough time tospend with it, or maybe they
just, you know, weren'tintroduced to it the right way.

(12:03):
Maybe they weren't, you know, inthe right frame of mind, or in a
position where they could reallyabsorb it. So, like, there's a
few things that once it leavesyou you can't control, but
ultimately, if you're doing itwith pace, you'll find that more
often than not, it works. And,you know, you could bat 350 and
that's a Hall of Fame career,yeah,

I'm assuming. I mean, if you're like most
musicians, probably the part ofbeing the music business you
hate is the business part andthe management and the marketing
and all that record contractsand all that shit, right? Like,
you just want to make music andyou want people to like it, but
it's hard, like to do all thatother stuff to get it marketed.
That's kind of a pain in theass, right? Well,

I mean, you know, there is a work that goes into
the business of the musicbusiness is, is definitely that,
you know, I will say, though,that if, if going away for 20
years and then coming back hasgiven me any sort of
perspective, the democratizationof the industry, I think, is
probably the biggest and mostseismic shift, because, in

(13:06):
truth, back in 2004 if I wantedto have this conversation with
you, I needed to have apublicist. If I needed people to
hear my music at scale, I neededto have a radio guy. If I wanted
people to see me, I had to havea video guy. And then if I
wanted to be on tour, I had tohave an agent. And if I wanted
to be sold, I had to have arecord label. And all of that
hierarchy creates gatekeepers.
It creates, you know, a systemof, you know, malicious,

(13:30):
intended times. So there's notreally, like an even playing
field. Now, I can have aconversation with an audience at
will. You know, I can createthings and immediately release
them. I can get instantaneousfeedback. I can get to scale
very quickly through paid media.
And I can work on engagement andsalience, and, you know, the

(13:53):
right emotional connection tothat art. I could never do that
before. Now, to your point, it'sa lot more work, but it's a lot
more control that just didn'texist 20 years ago. So that
part, I think, is, like, reallyinteresting, because I'm not
saying it's easy. I'm justsaying that if you work really
hard and then you realize someindependent gatekeeper isn't

(14:13):
going to let you through that'san unfairness that just doesn't
necessarily exist today, atleast not in the same ways. So
the cosmic observation of thechanges continuously amazes me
how much different it is betweenthen and now. Well,

yeah, because it wasn't explain to me what
happened with because you guyswere on Roadrunner, and then did
I read this right? It wassomething like they wanted your
next album to be morecommercial. And you guys were
like, No, we're not going to dothat. Like, let us out of here.
We want to get out of thiscontract. Is that what happened?

Yeah, you know, it's an interesting one, right?
Yes. I mean, in short, yeah,that's pretty much the story
with a little bit of context.
You know, we were a band thatwas, you know, independent, for
about seven years. We released avariety of EPS toward up and
down the East Coast, and thenwhen we signed. With Road
Runner, you know, Road Runner,we were in the hallowed halls of
heavy metal greatness. You know,we were staring at the plaques
of the contemporaries that wehad always admired, from typo

(15:08):
negative Sepultura to FearFactory to slipknot. And there
was a model at the time thatFear Factory had mass or
Roadrunner had mastered, andthat was, you know, touring
continuously building a fanbase, then growing at scale
according to that success,getting into bigger tours,
taking you out to radio, goingafter editorial outlets, like

(15:28):
they had a formula that workedconsistently for all their
bands. And you know, we signedat a point when that model was
still in place. And then a fewdifferent things happened. 2001
happened, and the shift between,you know, heavy music to kind of
more format friendly rock beganbecause it was hard to play
songs like Let The Bodies HitThe Floor and dragula on radio,

(15:50):
because the sentiment after 911was not that aggressive. At the
same time, Roadrunner wasbreaking Nickelback, which was
all of a sudden, just knockingdown doors everywhere. And the
label moved from fullindependent distribution to
being a part of Island Def Jam.
And all of a sudden, that camewith a new sense of scale and a

(16:11):
new sense of urgency around whatsuccess could look like. And
that dovetailed into Nickelbacktheory of a dead man. Jerry
Cantrell, you know, some ofthose more radio format friendly
bands of the early 2000s thatRoadrunner was putting out. And
for us, a band that was a partof that previous independent
tour heavy model, you know, it'slike musical chairs, all of a

(16:32):
sudden there isn't a chair foryou anymore. And in my
conversations with the A and Rfolks, the exact phrase that was
used was, listen, in order foryou to move forward here, this
needs to be more about businessand less about art. And I look
back, and I was like, I'm 26years old, and I have no idea
what that statement actuallymeans. I sing in a heavy metal
band, and this is kind of justwho we are. And you know, within

(16:56):
120 days, we were out of everydeal that we had, management,
publishing, label, Agent, youknow, it was, it was a pretty
quick slide down. What

did they want you to do? Like, make a ballot or
something, or like, what? Imean, I'll give you an example.

At the time you had Nickelback,

yeah, they couldn't expect you to go Nickelback,
right? No.

But at the exact moment that we were having this
conversation, Corey Taylor isbreaking records with bother,
and all of a sudden, Nickelbackis playing an acoustic song that
is just as powerful as any stainsong, any Nickelback song. It's
on the Spider Man soundtrack.
It's breaking records at radio.
So you're showing a model wherethis can be done. Now they look
at us, because on our firstrecord, we had an acoustic song

(17:41):
like, good night. I am stillsinging throughout the record.
So if there was a way to massagethis to a place where we could
maybe do something like that,then maybe there would be a
conversation about a future. Butthat wasn't something we were
naturally moving towards the wayCorey had had success with
Slipknot, and was maybe justexploring his own musicality and

(18:02):
moving into, you know, wouldeventually become a solo career
and eventually stone sour. Soagain, it's not like we're mad
about anything. We justrecognized how far along the
vision of Roadrunner was toevolve their artist base, and we
just weren't there yet. We werestill young kids on a first
record that, like, didn't reallyknow how to work with producers,

(18:23):
didn't really know how tostretch and grow as songwriters,
we were kind of like, I don'tknow. We're just a metal band,
like metal bands. Do you know wedidn't, we just didn't have
context. We didn't have, like, astrong manager that could help
guide us. It just wasn't in thecards for us. And that's just
part of the story. So you regretthat part

of the do you wish that you wish that you would
have done it differently, or areyou happy the way things worked

out? Man, I can't go back and play general after
the war. That would be silly.
All I can do now is just takefrom the life lessons and kind
of look at the experiences. Ijust say, Okay, well, where do
we go from here? I mean, youknow, listen, we were never in a
position. I mean, listen, itwould have been the proverbial
Hail Mary for a band that hadsold 26,000 records at that
point on their first album, toall of a sudden come up with

(19:05):
some hail mary ballad that'sgoing to do a platinum record,
because that's kind of theexpectation. And all of a sudden
we're going to be a heavy newmetal band. That's what going to
turn into the new stains,because you need that to fill a
gap, like we're just not that.
We just, we just didn't have thecapacity that. And they were
very successful without us doingthat. You know, you had bands

(19:28):
like El Nino that started toskyrocket after that, you know,
building into the formula thatRoadrunner was very successful.
So again, there's a lot ofopportunities. And at the same
time that all of that'shappening, you have this very
small band from Boston calledKill Switch engage that is just
completely annihilating thewhole face of aggressive music.

(19:50):
And not only are theystylistically completely
different than new metal oranything that's come before
them, but they're doing it allthemselves. Adam D is. Producing
everything himself. So it'slike, in a world of, like,
meeting a Ross Robinson andneeding a producer to come in
and kind of guide your visionall of a sudden, like, Adam

(20:10):
could do everything himself, andhe's crushing the guitar live. I
mean, okay, like, what's evenhappening in this world anymore?
Like it's so crazy now, so I getit. Roadrunner was just
exploding. It was a wonderfultime listen. And we're totally
thankful to be on that label. Wewouldn't be here without that
record. You know? We just hadthe crew. We just had the run

(20:33):
that we had, and that's just thestory of the band.

Yeah? Well, one person that was a big fan of
your band was Dave Mustaine,right? Didn't he handpick you
guys to tour with Megadeth.

Yeah, you know, we were, we were so fortunate. I
mean that that is the biggesttour we've ever been on with
gigantor. And when they wereputting that tour together, you
know, Dave's the one, they choseus to open. And you know, as
kind of legend has it, he wasturned on to the band because
justice was into the band. AndJustice at the time was like,

(21:03):
hey, dry kills a pretty coolband. Told his dad, you know? I
mean, Justice was young at thatpoint. This is 20 some odd years
ago, but we were reallyfortunate to be on that tour,
and that was one where it waslike, holy shit. Like, this is
crazy. I mean, you know, we got,we're back out with Fear
Factory, which is awesome, butyou have life agony, and you

(21:24):
have Symphony X, and you haveDream Theater, Megadeth and,
like, just all these awesomebands. And it was just really
cool. Like, that was a funexperience. Did

you get to, like, hang out with them backstage?
Because I hear different thingswhen I talk to musicians, some
say, Oh, they just kept to theirbus or their dressing room. And
other people say, No, yeah, weall hung out. We're best
friends,

yeah? I mean, you know, listen, we, you know, I
mean, to the point that Dave hastime to hang out with, you know,
the second of 15 bands on thebill. But he was very gracious
to us. He gave us a wonderfulbottle of champagne being on the
tour, you know, we did see eachother backstage, and we would
hang with all the bands. So itwas a communal feeling that
everybody's kind of just inmotion throughout the day and
throughout the night. But wenever wanted to, you know, be a

(22:06):
bother. But yeah, we would seeeach other, you know, moving
around and walking around the,you know, the venues and
whatnot. So everyone was veryfriendly and very nice. So yeah,
there was no, no pretense, noattitudes, no egos. And again,
we're, you know, we're justhappy to be here no matter where
we are. So we're not runningmuch interference on anything
that's going on. We're just, youknow, happy to be in the room no

(22:27):
matter what room it is.

Yeah, do you like those big shows versus where
there's like 20 band, because Iknow you're playing like the
aftershock festival or whatever,do you like those kinds of
things? Or do you like more,like the smaller Club, where
it's your crowd that people aregoing directly, just for you,

you know, I'll be honest with you, I don't really
know, and I'll tell you why Isay that. Hey, it's been 20
years, and I've kind offorgotten a lot of things,
right? But we've never played ashow like we just played
rockville, for example. We neverplayed on a stage that big,
never played to that sizeaudience before. I have no

(23:04):
context. Being on a 60 foot widestage with 6000 people in front
of me at two in the afternoon. Imean, that whole experience is
like, well, that's a first. Ihave no idea what this is like,
so that's crazy. And then nowwe're playing these headline
shows, and these are in morefamiliar venues, you know,
smaller venues, 300 500 cap. Butlast time we played those rooms,

(23:27):
we were a young band on a, youknow, on the album cycle that,
you know, hey, we're draculogic.
It's our first album. Or, hey,we're dragologic. This is our
second record. Like the deal,the third time we've ever been
to your town. 20 years later,people have built a relationship
with these songs. You know thatkind of is go longer
relationship with the music thanwe were an active band. So now,

(23:49):
when we think about thesesmaller, intimate rooms, the
level of fan that's going to bein this room is a 20 year fan.
I've never played to a fanthat's knows the music this
intimately. I've only played toa fan where I'm like, Hi, this
is a new record. Would you liketo consider having it in your
life now, 20 years later, toplay for them and like, yeah, we
took your advice, and we've beenlistening ever since. I don't

(24:09):
know. So I'm really excited tohave that emotion too. We never
had anybody like super fans thatknow the records this intimately
play before. So I'm reallyexcited to kind of get to the
end of this touring experienceand and just decide for myself,
almost, like, which one wasbetter. How do we feel about it?
Like, do we like these things?

(24:31):
Do we not like these things? Ijust have no context. I don't I
don't barely remember anything,and it all feels so different
now when, when I try to compareit,

yeah, that's cool.
Like, well, one of your albumsof vengeance and violence. I
mean, it's such an intenseenergy on that one. What are the
can you share, like, yourinsights the with the creative
process for that? Like, how doyou get so hyped up, you know,
making something like that?
Like, is, are drugs involved? Oris it just like, just freaking,
getting angry and working outand punching things? Or you.

Yeah, I mean, the anger is, the anger is the
dopamine, you know what? I mean,that's, that's the fun part, is
being angry and like expressingthat constructively. But, you
know, that was an interestingrecord. We were coming off of
the dead and dreaming, and wewere on an independent label,
repossession records that had anew distribution deal with, you
know, then Ada, which has become75 other distributors since

(25:22):
then, but at the time,repossession needed to continue
to keep the pipeline full andjust keep product in the market.
So we had just come off of thedead and dreaming, and they were
like, hey, any chance we couldget two releases from you guys
this year? And I was like,fucking cool. How's that gonna
work? We just came off the road.
We have, we're, you know, wehave no idea. So what we did was

(25:43):
we started the writing process.
I made the DVD that is in theMagellan complex. I've never
made DVD before. I never made avideo before. 2005 I just loaded
a bunch of stuff into my Mac,and went into the editing
program. Was like, Okay, here'sa here's a video of some stuff.
And then we took some of thedemos and did a cover, and just,

(26:03):
you know, a couple of covers,and threw that on there. Was
like, Okay, here you could havethis for one, but you can't
charge more than six bucks forit, because it's not worth more
than $6 to be honest. And thenwe kept working on the record.
And I think when we came off theroad, you know, musically, we we
knew what we wanted to do, butwe just needed some time. Like
we knew we wanted to dosomething different. We knew we

(26:25):
wanted to continue beingaggressive and we wanted to push
some boundaries. I knew I wantedto try to write maybe a little
bit more complex lyrics that hadmaybe a little bit more of a
story that wove throughout thesong. You know, the first couple
of albums were always like,smash, smash, very angry, smash,
smash. And this one was, like,very angry, maybe a little bit
more eloquent, so tried to justphrase it to be a little bit

(26:47):
more evolved, a little bit moreadult. But we did it very fast.
And then we released that alsoin September 2006 and then the
label folded, and we went on ahiatus. All that worked for, for
no, but we haven't played thosesongs in the US. You know, in
2006 we toured Europe twice, andAustralia once, and we played
the songs there, you know, justone time, just to test them out

(27:11):
on one tour. So these songs areessentially new to anyone in the
US. We'd never played them here.
So introducing stuff to to folkslike that, I think, is really
interesting in this, in thisopportunity too.

Yeah, that's going to be fun. So there's probably
been a lot of fans that havebeen waiting for this for a long
time.

You know, if social media content and
conversation is to be believedthat, yeah, that that's the
number one thing folks have beenasking for is, When can we see
you live? When can we see youlive? And then, you know, now
it's like, okay, well, we havethese shows this year. And now
the second question, when do weget a record? When do we get a
record? So hopefully that willbe, you know, coming as well.
Yeah,

it seems like the new process is just to more have
like the singles and put thesingles out. Like people care
more about the singles than theyused to. Used to be about the
singles when the pop music firsthit, and then it became all
about the album. And now it'slike, going back to the singles.
It seems like,

you know, to your point, like people digest as
they go, instead of releasingeverything. I think it's twofold
for us. Number one, the industrydoesn't seem to be receptive to
the idea of a singles basedartist, you know, release
schedule to just kind of do itat whim. People pay attention to
bodies of work. People payattention to record releases.

(28:28):
It's easier to wrap your mindaround, it's easier to promote,
it's easier to talk about. So itseems like a full body of work
still gets more runway than justsingles. But I think within
that, to be honest, what I wouldlike to have is not so much an
album as like releasing 11 songsat once. I think we need a body
of work. And I think we'reexcited now to create a body of

(28:50):
work. You know, you release it,four releases of three songs
each, 12 releases, singles, 112,Song album. You know, however
you do it, you just need the thebody of work you need the songs.
So that's the part that we'remost excited to think about now,
is, how do we just go in andstart writing the best songs
possible, and then people farsmarter than us will be like,

(29:10):
Hey, this is the right way torelease it out into the world.
So less married to the format,more married to the idea that
even if you're going to dribbleout singles, you got to have
them all recorded first. Sothat's what we're, you know,
angling towards. Yeah, I

think the one thing that's cool for as a fan is just
seeing when bands do, if they dorelease an album, because
obviously, you guys don't makeany money on the streaming or
it's very little. But you know,some of the bands have gotten
creative with this and said,Okay, you know, the vinyl is
big, so they'll put things onvinyl, and then they'll get real
creative and have all thesedifferent kinds different kinds
of props. Like, I'm trying toremember what band it was that

(29:46):
the thing came in, like, it was,like a wooden like, coffin. It
was so cool. Like, they'regetting very creative with,
like, kind of the boxes and thepackaging to kind of sell it
more so that a fan would belike, oh, I want that. Because
it's, like, this whole thing, Iknow, for me, I'm a big Guns and
Roses fan, and. They had thosebox sets. It's like, of course,
you can get those songs onSpotify for free, but to get
this box set with all thepictures and a laminate and all

(30:07):
this, like, cool little, youknow, little accessories, I
thought that. I think thatstuff's kind of fun.

No, you're, you're, right. And for us, you
know, I think we're, we're twofold number one, we we don't
really know how, what peoplewant. Again, we just don't know.
We have no context, right? So toyour point, they've been living
with the music digitally for,you know, a generation now,
essentially. So as you start tothink about different ways to

(30:34):
consume that music, are youinterested in those physical
items? Is the digital stuff? Doyou kind of have that married
into your mind, like we need tolearn a little bit more about
what our audience would likefrom us, and then I think we're
totally cool with making it. Youknow, if there's anything that
we're somewhat conscious of inall of this, it's I might not be

(30:54):
able to tell you the onedefinitive reason why we're
doing any of this, but I cantell you one definitive reason
that we're not doing any of thisand we're not doing this for
money. None of us, 20 yearslater are like, Hey, let's go
make some money off some fansthat seem to we don't give a
shit. We all have jobs, we havelives. We're going to pay our
bills. It's going to be justfine. So, like, we're also a

(31:15):
little cautious about, like,looking greedy. And like, you
know, hey, I'm here in a 300 caproom, and you have 70 3t shirts
and 45 different vinyls and 63different, you know, mezcals
that you're offering with apartner of a CD and a consent
you know what? I mean, like,people be like, What did you
make all this stuff just to sellit to us? So we're conscious and

(31:36):
somewhat cognizant of that wedo. I mean, again, people want
stuff. They're like, Hey, makeus things. We're just trying to
be respectful of the dollar andjust like, hey, what would you
like? Would you like merch?
We'll make like, some awesomemerch. Would you like vinyl?
We'll then we'll get to thevinyl like, it just feels I
don't know. We're just kind ofcautious about that stuff. And I
don't know that maybe it's justour Italian guilt, or my Italian
guilt, that kicks in when Istarted to think about the

(31:59):
commercialization of it justfreaks me out sometimes. Yeah?

Well, I mean, yeah, I guess if you don't have to
worry about that, as if that'snot a top priority, I know, but
one thing that is like a hugething for the fans that I don't,
I feel like a lot of bands arenot as interested in, but it has
been a good money maker forthem, is the meet and greets.
Like, what do you how do youfeel about that? Is that
something that you would youwant to do, do you want to
charge for that? Or do you wantto have a reduced rate, or do it

(32:25):
for free? Or,

you know, it's it.
That's a, that's a wonderfulquestion. And, you know, I don't
begrudge anyone for any behaviorthat they do. Being out on the
road, touring is a, is a veryexpensive proposition. So I can
see a world where, like, thosethings could make sense for us
right now, we'll just meet youat the merch booth. Now we'll

(32:47):
see, have you bought a t shirt?
I can't believe you bought a tshirt. I can't believe charging
you $1 to sit in the same roomas me and be like that. I'm just
taking your money. Now, this iscrazy. So, yeah, we'll just meet
you at the merch booth. We'llsee at the bar, we'll meet you
outside, like, we'll take allthe pictures, and I'll give a
shit, like, it's fine, totallycool. But again, I don't grudge

(33:08):
anyone. I'm fascinated by thebusiness that it does. You know,
there's a real in base forstuff, so that's

what I'm saying.
Like, there's bands that are, Imean, you would not think this
band could charge this much formeet and greet, but they do, and
people buy it. So yeah,

and that's what I mean, like, god bless that. I'm
just amazed. I'm like, That's soawesome. It's not I just think
this part of the world that isjust so new to me, yeah, and
that's what I'm saying. Like, itcan't I don't have an opinion
about it, because I don't knowenough about anything to have
any opinions. I just know thatbehaviorally, if I look back at
how we do things, give us 10minutes to get out of these wet

(33:43):
clothes, man, and we'll see atthe verge booth. We'll be there
in a second. You know, getoutside that we'll just come
back inside and hang out withy'all and party. So that's just
kind of how we operate on thatstuff. But

that's cool. So the you guys all have day jobs, and
the day jobs don't interferewith any of the touring
conflicts or anything. Well,

no, I mean, you know, if you think about the way
that we're doing this now, we'rebeing really strategic. Touring
is a very relative term, youknow, where we're strategically
playing shows, where they makesense for us. So, you know, you
go to Rockville, it's on aSunday. You play a couple of
festivals, Wednesday, Friday.
You know, these things. We canmanage it with our schedules. I
think that, you know, if therewere ever a universe that

(34:21):
provided an opportunity thatmade sense to tour at scale, you
know, over time, we would haveto consider that, but if you're
made an offer that you can'trefuse, then you must take it as
seriously as it must be taken.
So I think we're open to allconversations, but it's not like
get in the van. We're getting avan back. You know, it's like

(34:43):
we're managing it withreasonable expectations. So,
yeah, because it

looks like most of the upcoming shows you guys have
are these big festivals.

Yeah, we have these two headline shows coming
up in a couple of weeks in NewYork and New Jersey Brooklyn, on
the 13th at the monarch and the14th at thing back. That's in
New Jersey. And then, to yourpoint, after that, it's all
festivals. So we fly in, we flyout. You know, it's easy, easy.
Yeah,

that's what I've seen a lot of bands do. Have you
looked into casino gigs? Becausethose are really fun, and fun
for the fans, fun for the band.
And I think they, they pay verywell to the band too. I guess
that's not a major factor foryou guys, but it is kind of
probably be nice to get it.

Yeah, listen, I mean, again, like covering costs
is always awesome. You know whatI mean? Like, it's just not a
money making exercise, right?
Like, we don't necessarily wantto make a ton of money, but
don't want to be in the redobviously, either. And to your
point, I think now what we'rereally also interested in
discovering is like, where arethe places that we should go

(35:47):
that have audiences that arereceptive to the band? Like, you
know? I mean, we've done a fairamount of touring in our life,
but where are the places that weshould go if we want to kind of
celebrate 20 years of the deadand dreaming or just kind of
reconnect with folks and playthese, you know, three to 500
cap rooms. We don't havedelusions of grandeur. We don't
have, you know, again,unreasonable expectations. But

(36:07):
where should we go? And I thinkthat's going to be part of the
exercise for our agency into2026 is to try to figure out,
like, hey, like, what marketsbeyond New York and New Jersey
would be receptive to dry killheadliner shows, and then we'll
start to think about, you know,going out to those as well. And
you know, that could be just awhole year in and of itself. So

(36:28):
we're just excited to see folksthat are excited to see us, to
be honest. We've, we've playedso many places that to go back
to any of them now is really anexciting proposition, to be
honest. Yeah,

and so who? Because you've had some lineup changes.
So how does that work with Imean, with this current lineup,
these are, I'm assuming, theseare people that were in the
band, or you've gotten some newmembers, with

the exception of the drummer, J Jason Bazzi, our
guitar player has been with ussince the dead and dreaming. Uh
Brendan Kane, who's our bassplayer, has been with us also
since that same time, but he wasin other bands, so he couldn't
join the band. He joined us in2005 and he's been with us ever
since. He toured with us inEurope on the vengeance and

(37:14):
violence. So he's been with usforever. So the core nucleus,
the three of us, have beentogether for, you know, 20
years, we're all incrediblyclose. We hang out all the time.
So like, you know, the core ofdry kill is still the same. Our
drummer now is Kevin Bucha, whoused to be the drummer for the
Acacia strain. He's a monsterplayer. Such a great, wonderful

(37:35):
addition to the band. We'resuper fortunate to have him
behind the drums. And to behonest, this is really just the
toughest version of this bandthat's ever been. I mean,
Brendan was in 100 Demons and1000 Falling Skies, so you have
this like toughness to the musicand the rhythm section that just
compliments Jay. And it's reallyjust a treat to play with such a

(37:58):
sonically strong band.

Yeah, I see, I think the the drumming in this
kind of, in this kind of metalthat you guys are doing is so
underrated. I had the drummeractually from kill switch on my
show, and I was trying, like,He's so modest, but I'm like,
Dude, I am so impressed by howfast you can play those, those
guys, like in Slayer and stuff,all those, all those kind of
metal bands. I feel like thedrumming is very underrated. I

(38:22):
feel like that would be a veryhard thing physically to do.

I mean, I can't do it on a drum set for like, a
count of four, right? I can't doit for like, yeah, these guys
need it for 75 minutes. You knowwhat? I mean, yeah. And this
hand's just going so fast, thishand's just keeping the beat and
the feet, and it's like, I don'tget it, man. I mean, again, that

(38:48):
is a talent that I enjoy. Youknow, in a world of like playing
instruments poorly, drums is oneof them, but I watch a real
drummer play and I realize howfar away I am from being a real
drummer, especially in the metalgenre, the talent level is just
off the charts. If speed is justso underrated, and the
performance of these guys, youknow, drum kill switch, all

(39:10):
these bands, it's obvious.

Yeah, I hope that never goes away, because I know
that some bands want to use thedrum machines or whatever, but
I'm like, I can't I like towatch a real person do it. It's
just, it's amazing. It's, itreally is, like you said, it's a
talent, that it's like, I thinkit's underrated, and I hope it
never does go away. Because Iknow a lot of obviously the pop
music they use drum machines,but I hope that that doesn't

(39:33):
happen to metal and rock, thatthey start using long

live, the drum cam, man, long live, the drum
cam. I love my one of myfavorite drum cams to watch is
Eloy on all of these Slipknottours. And I'm like, Dude,
you're just a monster behindthat kid, like, just watching
him muscle out those beats. I'mlike, my god. You're like,
you're beating up this, like ait's like the mugging every time

(39:56):
you're beating up this drum setwhen you play. So awesome. Them
to watch. I love the drum camperspective that

is so, yeah. So like, when you go to, like,
Aftershock, because, I mean,there's so many crazy bands that
are playing there, like corn andperfect circle, Marilyn Manson,
like, are you gonna just do yourset and then go, I mean, I feel
like that'd be the best thingabout being on a bill like that
is just having a backstage passto watch all these other bands,

pretty much. And the best part about being on
early is that you get done. Yougot the rest of the day just
floating around. No moreresponsibility. I'm done. I go
have catering, I go get a drink,I go watch these bands. So yeah,
that's the that's the most fun,to be honest, is just kind of
sit off to the side of the stageand just watch how it all kind
of unfolds, and to see how otherbands operate, to see their

(40:40):
stage shows. And, yeah, it'sagain, the perspective is just
so fascinating and and to beable to be a part of it, like
we're just incredibly grateful,after all this time, to just be
able to even witness it, muchless perform, just to be able to
sit on the side of the stagesand watch all these artists, you
know, do their thing. It's like,my god, what? What an awesome

(41:03):
perspective. Yeah, what is

it? What have you learned from I mean, because you
guys toured with Motorhead too,like, I mean, Lemmy, you must,
you must have learned thingsfrom him. He must have had some
wisdom.

Yeah, I mean, Motorhead, tell you dead. I
mean, we played, we played a fewshows with, with, with those
guys. And, you know, again, whenyou're when you're when you're
around legacy musicians likethat, and you're around people
that you know you just considerpreeminent thought leaders in
the genre, when it comes towriting, when it comes to stage

(41:33):
shows, when it comes toconnections and interactions
with The audience, like and it'seasy for them to be distracted,
and it's easy for them to bealoof, and it's easy for them to
be thinking about somethingelse, and to kind of just
operate in a universe where,like, they're just always busy

(41:54):
all the time, and maybe, youknow, they have moments of
reflection or moments ofengagement, but that's one of
the things I thought that wasalways different about Lemmy and
the guys in Motorhead, like,they walk into the dressing room
and they're like, Hey, what'sgoing on? And you're like, holy
shit. Like, Mickey D's heretalking to my drummer about,
like, you know, things aboutdrawing, you're like, and Lemmy

(42:17):
is talking about, like,political war, like, you know,
you're just like, I'm definitelythe dumbest one in this room,
and I'm the most intimidated,because I don't want to say a
goddamn thing, but I'm sittinghere drooling like an idiot in
front of Lemmy. You're like, ohand again. Like, he's just so
smart and so gracious and sodown to earth. And I just
remember all those guys werejust, you know, they come in the

(42:39):
dressing room, they hang out, toeat, some catering, ask a
question. They sit down, youknow, lemme all smoke and go
play a video game in the cornerfor six hours. You didn't get,
you know, like he was, like, Ijust played a video game. You
know, that's it. Video game.

Okay, so it's like, a big kid, almost, but, like,
really smart,

yeah. I mean, they were really one of the smartest
people I've ever met. I mean,just, just just somebody that
had such a well roundedperspective on basically
everything. You know, he had areally well informed opinion
about so much. And you wouldtalk to him, and he would just,
you know, be very articulate, sohe'd explain himself very
simply. And you realize youcan't do the same. You know, you

(43:18):
may have thoughts, but you can'tget them out of your head. You
know, he just had a way ofcommunicating where, like,
didn't have to say a lot, but hesaid so much. You took away so
much from it that you knew whathe was talking about without him
really having to, like, repeathimself, or, you know, use the
wrong words. He just justremember them being incredibly

(43:39):
eloquent, Lemmy especially,

yeah, it's crazy.
Like, just doing this podcast,like, meeting some of these
guys, like, D Snyder and stuff.
They just, they have this like,personality. And you're just
like, Oh, this guy's, like, astar, like, he just has this
star persona. And, yeah, theyjust, like, when they talk, you
listen, and you're like, wow.
Like, it's just something about,like, I'm sure Lemmy had that as
well. I never met him, but,

yeah, no. I mean to your point, like, you know,
you there's a magnetism that youjust can't kind of tear yourself
away from, and whether that'show they carry themselves, how
they carry themselves, or howthey speak, or what they say,
you know, whatever it is, justlike this, this magnet, you're
just drawn to it. And to yourpoint, like, that's the rock
star effect, you know, happeningand unfolding in front of you,

(44:22):
and it's awesome to see it, youknow? And when you see someone's
really got that, it's like, wow,man, you're just a star. You
just command the room no matterwhat room you're in.

Yeah, I'm always fast, like, how do they do that?
Is it just natural? They're justborn with it. I feel like a lot
of times they're just

born that's just who they are. I don't think you
can be taught that. I thinkyou're just, you don't try. It's
just who you are, you know,

yeah, it is so interesting. But yeah, then
you're like, you said, like,there's so a lot of them,
they're so down to earth, like,they just, they don't think.
They're not usually not supercocky, like, and they're not
insecure, because they're just,this is who they are, and
they're just being themselves.

Yeah, there's. Of relatability, right? Like in the
best in the Best Artist to fanrelationship. You know, as an
artist, you see yourself in theaudience the same way the
audience sees themselves in you.
And someone like Lemmy. Youknow, you look at Lemmy and
you're like, I could be like,let me, you know, like, he's
down to earth. I'm down toearth. He says funny things.

(45:21):
Maybe I say funny things, andthat's what makes them like, you
know, the superstars, like, wegot a, you know, a person with,
like, a rock star ego, andyou're like, Oh, okay. You're
like, great at the guitar. Andlike, yeah, you're like, a guy,
and you get on the stage and youwear the clothes, and you say
the things like, that's cool,you know. But when you meet
someone where it's like, oh,you're all that, and and you're
just a dude like, Whoa. That's,that's where I think the, that's

(45:43):
the magic of it, you know,

right? But then it's so interesting too, because
then some people, they don'treally have that persona or or,
like magnetism, but they're sofascinating as artists, and they
create such amazing work. Like,I just think of like, you know,
Maynard from perfect circle, whoyou're going to be performing
with and tool, and he actuallylived, I don't know if he still

(46:08):
does, but he did live. I'm inPhoenix, Scottsville area, but
he lived in a town called Jeromethat was, like two hours from
here. Is a tiny, little town,and he lived there for some
reason it was so weird. And Iremember like, asking the locals
like, oh, did you ever see like,main around this one girl? She
was, like, a waitress. Like,Yeah, that guy used to come in
here, like, every day, and Ididn't know he was, like, a big

(46:28):
thing, like, I just he was veryquiet. He was kind of weird,
and, like, I would serve himcoffee, and we didn't say much,
and I didn't know who he waslike. And so that I find it
fascinating. There's people theother end of the spectrum too,
but are also very famous, verysuccessful, very amazing
artists,

yeah, yeah. And to your point, right? Like, it's
always interesting when, whenyou see folks where, like, the
talent shines through, first,you know, somebody that's
somewhat unassuming, and thenall of a sudden they sing, and
you're like, you have thatvoice, you know, or they play
the guitar like they're, youknow, 100 years older than they
are, and they lived a life that,you know, that they haven't

(47:05):
lived. You're like, where?
Where's that coming from? Andyou're like, No, that's me. And
you're like, Well, my God,that's just something that's,
that's crazy. So, yeah, like themagnetism, the raw magnetism, is
an appeal. But yeah, when youare talented, there's no,
there's no denying it, you know,because some people, you know,
you can have that magnetism, butmaybe you're not so good on the
instrument, and you rely alittle bit more on that.

You know, that's like a David Lee Roth, I'm
thinking is more it's like, it'sall personality with him,

yeah, you know, I mean, again, you know, it's
just, it's just, it's so it'sjust such an interesting dynamic
when you're in front of folks tosee how unique they are. And to
your point, maybe even more, youknow, interesting are the
moments where they're not onstage on camera, and they're
like, just the quiet person inthe back of the cafe that's
like, Why is that guy come inhere every day? And it's like,

(47:54):
because this is the only placehe can go and just sit like a
normal person that doesn't getrecognized. He probably is
thrilled to be considered weird.
Like, yeah, I'm just a weird,quiet guy. Totally fine. You
could be, I could be that here,happy to be that here, you know,
right?

Yeah, there's definitely those, like, those
levels of fame. Like, I What wasthat, I think I was talking to,
like, was it Alice Cooper'sguitar player, Ryan Roxy, about
that? Like, because, you know,yeah, oh, you know. I mean, he's
like, super nice guy, but I waslike, saying, like, do you ever
get recognized? He's like, Yeah,like, the day of the concert,
like, you know, near the fans,of course, they're like, Oh, you

(48:29):
you know, like, they thinkthey're this big thing, you're
on stage and stuff. He's like,but then other times, like,
just, you know, regular places,like, nobody, you know he, he's
kind of in between, whereas,like, like, Alice Cooper, like,
you know he, I saw him at themall here in Phoenix, and I was
like, That's Alice Cooper. Like,I mean, he can't go to the mall
without somebody's gonna write,somebody like me, like a nerdy
rock fan is gonna recognize him,for sure. Yeah.

I mean, yeah, he's, yeah, he's still Alice
Cooper. You know what? I mean?
Like, yeah, right here. That'sthat. That's the best line to
walk, is when you experiencethat level of fame, but you're
not beholden to it. In a way.
It's traps, you, you know, so,yeah, that's, that's the best
life to live is when you canexperience it, but not be, you
know, chained to it, yeah?

Because you guys have a lot of, I mean, you have,
like, I think it was like aquarter million followers on
Spotify or something, somethinglike that. I was like, holy cow,
that's a huge following,

yeah? I mean, especially for a band that, you
know, if I had to put us on atech timeline, began at cassette
tapes and ended at MySpace. Youknow, they didn't have YouTube
when we stopped making, youknow, music, it didn't exist. So
to your point, like the ideathat a quarter million people
every month are streaming foursongs every time they listen, 20

(49:39):
years after that record cameout, I don't Okay, like, that's
amazing. I don't know how tofeel about that, because I just
we never operated in a worldwhere that was possible, you
know. And it's funny, because Ilook at those things, and my
knee jerk reaction is, wherewere all of you guys when we
were playing to 50 people, youknow? And. And every answer,

(50:00):
generally, is something to theeffect of, I was seven, you
know, or my dad's car, I was inhigh school, or, like, I wasn't
born yet, you know. So it's rarewhen people are like, Oh, I
don't know, I missed you thefirst time, most people are
like, well, we just found outabout you. And then that's like,
wow. Well,

that's the thing I think what I remember being a
kid and buying and, you know, Iused to buy a lot of CDs. I was
a huge music fan, but I couldn'tbuy every CD. So I think that's
the one thing that I know.
Artists don't like the streamingbecause they don't make as much
money from it, but it does helpfans discover a lot of bands.
There's a lot of music that I'vediscovered through streaming

(50:39):
that I just never would havebeen able to discover because I
just could not buy all thoseCDs. But now, if I find a band
that I like, then I go supportthem. I'll have them on my show.
I will go to their concert, I'llbuy their merch. I'll, you know,
I'm the guy. I'll buy the Tshirts and stuff, you know,
because I want to support them.
Yeah?

I mean, I'll be honest, I am a much bigger fan
of music is a utility, thatmusic is a commodity. I just
think that, you know, music islike water. It's like lights.
Turn it on when you want to turnit off when you don't. If you
rely on the idea that this is acommodity and you're going to
have to own everything you everwant to experience, you don't
have enough. Nobody hasn't evenat $1 a song. It's an untenable

(51:18):
business model if you are avoracious consumer of music. So
this whole streaming thing, it'slike, you know, listen,
universal is making just enoughmoney on Drake and the weekend
and Kendrick Lamar, so like,stream is paying somebody, you
know, that's where it's like, Ithink that when artists, you
know, knee jerk reaction intostreaming is bad, no money. I'm

(51:40):
like, Yeah, well, let's take alook at the fine print and the
deal to understand where themoney's going. Because, yeah,
there's, there's a percentage ofthe pie, right? There's no per
stream amount. It's a percentageof the pie that's distributed to
all of the people in the pie.
So, you know, just again, it'slike, this idea of, if I work
and I work and I get thesenumbers up and I get these
things going, they can pay outover time, and then it just

(52:01):
continues. It's not that onetime hit of hey, I sold one CD.
I got to sell another CD, I gotto sell another CD. I just need
to put it up and just let yougo, and then just continue to
make you want it. It's a muchdifferent exercise it feels like
from a marketing perspective. SoI'm just fascinated by the
comparison. And again, you know,I understand if you were
successful in an old model, andnow you have a new model, and

(52:24):
it's not the same. I get thedifference. Again, it's no
indictment. I haven't beensuccessful in any model. So who
am I to have any opinions aboutwhat you should or should not
feel at any given instance? ButI do think it is fascinating.
Just feels like there's untappedpotential now to be successful,
whereas before, yeah, you know,the business was just a little
bit harder

to break, right?
It's like you said, there wasthose gatekeepers, which is so
and, and it's the same thingwith, like, podcasting, because
it's like, I couldn't havestarted a, you know, if I guess
I could have tried to do a radioshow back in the 90s or
something, I would have to goget on some local channel and
hope that enough people see itin my town, and then try to work
my way through go to all theseradio I mean, I saw that Howard

(53:05):
Stern movie, like, how what hehad to do, like, but now I could
just get on, turn on the camera,and I can stream out to the
entire world. I mean, not theentire not everyone's gonna
watch it, but, but then theproblem is, everybody can do
that. So now I'm competing withall these other people, they're
doing the same thing.

Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. And then the
question becomes, how muchharder Are you willing to work
than everybody else? And I'm notsaying you Right, no, the Royal
you Right. Like, you know, likewhen you're in that moment where
everything's democratized andyou're all at the starting line
and everybody's going to run therace, how fast are you? You
know, how long will you run for?
And that this becomes theexercise of like, you know, we

(53:43):
it took us seven years to get toour first record deal. You know,
you think about putting in sevenyears into anything before the
proverbial return. You know,today's world, that's a long
time to invest in something sobut that's the exercises that
you have to put in the time. Andmaybe it's shorter now, maybe
it's 12 months, 16 months, twoyears, I don't know, but, and

(54:04):
maybe that's the benefit of thisnew model, is that you don't
have to spend seven yearsbleeding a dream, but you do
have to spend some amount oftime bleeding a dream. It's that
part I don't think is ever goingto change. So that's the part
where it's like, yeah, it's justexciting, because you don't have
to go through like, I gotta finda radio station. Then I have to
be beholden to the radio stationis going to do the right amount

(54:25):
of marketing. And then I have tobe beholden to the idea that
there's enough people in townthat know about me and this show
that they're going to tune in.
And then I have to be make surethat they like what they hear
when they finally do tune in.
And I gotta wait for the radioand I gotta make sure that
right, like, all that's gone,it's like, turn them like, talk
to people, see the reaction, dosomething different, or do the
same thing again. Like that, tome, is much cooler than the

(54:45):
previous, right, but it comeswith its own set of
circumstances. Nothing in lifeis easy,

yeah. The thing with a podcasting is, like, it's
different, because I feel likeif you're if you have any sort
of level of celebrity, like.
Guys from cheers started apodcast. So, like, immediately
they have more subscribers thanme because they're building on
their reputation. So, and Ithink that could be the same in
a way with music, like, if theyhave some sort of reputation in
the past, it's got a jump startover a band that's starting from

(55:15):
nothing. Yeah,

absolutely. And listen, I'll be honest, the way
that I've always looked at itis, the harder you work, the
luckier you get. You know,that's That's it. You know,
people always say, oh, you know,you got that one in a lifetime.
You know, you were working as aStarbucks barista. And then all
of a sudden, some guy came inand said, Hey, I like you. I'm
going to give you the drug jobof your dreams. And that's just,

(55:39):
you know, lightning in a bottle,and it's like, no, I worked
every shift I could at thatStarbucks. I took overtime, I
came in when I was sick. I justbusted my ass. I didn't even
recognize this guy, but this guycame in and saw me because I was
there. I wasn't even a good moodwhen he saw me, but he just saw
me. And that like, you can'treplace that part. So the fact
that you worked hard, then yougot lucky because you worked

(56:02):
hard there. It's like, it seemsyou cannot have you have to
increase

the odds significantly. I mean, doing
these interviews, that's whatI've I've learned by putting
yourself like the hard work, andthen also, like a lot of it for
music too, is being in the or atleast it used to be. I don't
know if this is still a bigthing, but, but a lot of the
musicians will move to citieswhere there's a music scene.
Like, if you live in Cleveland,you're probably not gonna make
it until, unless you move to LAor New York or now Nashville and

(56:29):
Vegas has kind of got a littlebit of a scene going now. And so
these other bigger towns, forsure, yeah, I mean,

and that's the part that I'm kind of interested
in too, because it's like, youknow, I come from that world of
like, you got to move somewhereto make it somewhere, right? You
have to go where the big clubsare, the big radio station or
the big editorial outlet, youknow, whatever, New York LA, you
know, the stories of moving toHollywood to make it, but now it
seems like in a social setting,and again, I'm not a backpack

(56:56):
rapper, I'm not a SoundCloudrapper. I'm not a, you know, an
internet star or an island boy,or any of these things. But it
doesn't feel like you need to dothat anymore. If you are
starting in the socialstratosphere. It's almost a
point of pride to be from, like,East Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania,
with 7 million followers, andyou've got some it song on tick
tock. It's like, yeah, I didn'tmove anywhere. I moved from the
living room to the basement.

Biggest YouTuber, Mr. Beast is, like, he was from
like, Cleveland, or some Ohio orIndiana or something like small
town. Just did most of it out ofhis bedroom, and he became the
biggest YouTubers, crazy,

seriously. And that's like, you know, model,
predictive model of success.
Like, you don't do that. Somaybe that's where it's all
headed. And again, I just, I'mjust so fascinated by the
difference and just thedifferent ways that people
become successful today, thatI'm just, I find myself a
constant, like, observation of,like, Oh, how did this happen?

(57:50):
Like, look at this thing. Ithink it's all, how did it
happen? Just tell me how ithappened. Show me how it
happened. I'm just so interestedin the backstory. And then you
read about backstory. Like,awesome. So what are you going
to do now? You know what I mean,like, what comes next? Like,
okay, lightning in a bottle.
Boom. How do you do it again? SoI'm just, I'm just, it's like,
it's just always good to learn.
I think,

yeah, it seems like a lot of times too, there's some
sort sometimes, not every time,but a lot of times there could
be some sort of gimmick orbranding. Like, because you
mentioned Slipknot, and thatmade me think of like, remember,
they had the masks and stuff,like, when they first came out,
that was very unique. Therewasn't a lot of bands doing
that, so they stood out.

Yeah, oh, you're right, and you see it, I think
today, again, not the sameapproach, because it shouldn't
be doing anything that everybodyelse is doing. But the theater,
you know, metal, I think isreally interesting. The ice
ghost, the motionless invite,the ghost, the avatars. You
know, there is this, thistheater in the production and in

(58:49):
the live show elements. Andthat's another thing that I
think is so interesting. Like,you don't need a ton of money to
have a really visuallystimulating show, and then that
has a lot of work too. I mean,again, and like, everything has
to run to a click. You know,there's movement and motion
between samples and starts andstops, and you know, if you miss

(59:11):
one click, the backgrounddoesn't work anymore. Now your
lighting cues are off, and it'slike this whole symphony of
movement that has nothing to dowith the music, but has
everything to do with the music.
But like you see these groups,and I'm just so fascinated by
their shows, it's, you know, yousaid it earlier, you know,
talking about, like, how toolused to be one of the most

(59:32):
mysterious and visuallystimulating live shows, because
they use lights and they usecostumes, and they just
represented themselves inshadows and all of these
different ways, and it feelslike a more modern version of
that with a lot of the artiststoday and their live shows. And
I'm here for it. I think it'sawesome.

Yeah, I think they have to be. They have to up
their game with the live show,because they're not making any
money on the record. So it'slike, okay, so we got to make
these, some of these ticketprices. Are you? They're out of
control. So it's like, it betterbe a pretty damn good show. Yep.
And

Cliff Rigano (01:00:04):
then you pay all the money for that, and then all
your money goes to pay for theshow. So what's left? Paid meet
and greets everybody? Yeah,

Chuck Shute (01:00:10):
yeah. No, I the mean, greets. It's so
interesting. I feel like there'sa lot of podcasters that I'm
like, I watch a lot of podcastsbecause I'll do research on the
guests that I'm having on. And Iwatch a lot of podcasts, and I
feel like a lot of podcasts. I'mlike, Dude, you should just have
a paid meet and greet. Like,you, I don't know why you're
doing a podcast. Like, it'slike, it's so interesting to see

(01:00:31):
that though.

You know, I yeah, I really enjoy comedy podcasts,
and I think one of the ones thatI that I really like is the Matt
and Shane secret podcast. And Inoticed that they do a lot of
stuff. Like, they have a patPatreon. So like, they'll do a
free podcast, and then they'llmove a lot of that conversation
over to the Patreon. So to yourpoint, like, what is that line
of free versus paid content?
Like, where do you kind ofmonetize some of that long form

(01:00:55):
stuff? So yeah, it's a reallyinteresting proposition,
because, again, they have a hugefan base. Fans are into the
idea. They're not offended bythe idea that they want to be
part of an exclusive club to getexclusive humor. So again, like
you're making available theexact amount of demand, you
know, supply that your audienceis demanding. And I think that

(01:01:15):
that's fair market commerce. Youknow, if you have an audience
that wants to get, like, timewith you, and you just don't
have the time to do it, and thisis how it needs to be done. And
it's not offensive to anyone.
Hey, God bless man. You know,because the demand is there, and
as long as the demand is there,then it's okay to supply. It's
only when you're supplying andthere's no demand that it seems

(01:01:36):
a little right one, you knowwhat I mean?

Well, yeah. I mean, I think a lot of these bands are
just, I think that because yousay you're not in it to you guys
have day jobs or, but I thinkfor some they they want to make
it their main thing, or, andthey're trying just to make ends
meet. I feel like it's tough,like, I know, like, I think
anthrax had to cancel a bunch oftheir shows because it just
wasn't going to make sensefinancially for them to tour at

(01:02:01):
the way, the way that they weregoing, like, the prices or
something. So they just had tocancel the whole tour. I mean,
it gets like, when you're one ofthose bands that's like, you're
not, you know, Taylor Swift orwhatever, but like, you know
you're you should have enough ofa following, you're trying to
make a professional living. It'sit gets tough nowadays,

oh and again. And that's why I don't begrudge
anyone that does it. And thatwas the caveat earlier. It's
just like, hey, listen, youknow, if, if you're out there
working, you know, and we allknow that touring is a very
expensive proposition,especially when you're doing it
in scale, and you're doingmultiple shows in a row, and
you're out on the road, andthose are real hard costs that
only continue to go up. So, youknow, money has a ceiling. It's

(01:02:41):
a you know, you have to, youknow, you have to pay for
something, you have to not payfor something somewhere else. So
all of it makes sense to me. Andagain, it's just a matter of,
you have fans that areinterested in that type of, you
know, content and conversation.
So it's like, I, dude, I wouldlove to have a picture with you,
and I understand everything likethis is reasonable. Let's do it
again. I think it's fair. We'rejust sensitive that, you know,

(01:03:04):
we're not at that point. And Idon't think anybody at this
stage, after 20 years, shouldhave to come to the first show
and pay for much of anything,especially time with a band that
they haven't seen in, you know,a couple of decades, if we're on
the road all the time, andthere's a level of exclusivity
that comes along with that typeof meet and greet that's I
begrudging no one for thatbehavior. I just think for us,

(01:03:27):
it's not the right fit rightnow, but yeah,

because, I mean, you're you're also like, they're
helping you out by if they posta picture with you and post that
on social media, it's freeadvertising for the band.

Yeah. I mean, God, and to think anybody even wants
a picture with us after all thistime, it's, it's humbling, to be
fair, like I don't, I'msurprised anybody wants a
picture with

us. I mean, the quarter million followers on
Spotify, that's a lot of people.

Yeah, no, I, you know, we're just, we're very
grateful for, for everybodythat's, you know, still
continued with the band. It'sthere's a lot to consume in this
world, and the fact that youspend any of your time consuming
us after all of this time, it'shumbling. That means something.
It's not lost on us, that in aworld of content, you you you

(01:04:14):
want to hear a dry kill. That'sawesome, and we appreciate that.

Very cool. Well, the new song is out now and
then, should people, I'm notsure is our website, I can put
in the show notes. Or justwhat's the best way to follow?

I kill logic on all the socials is the best way
to find us. We're pretty activeon that. Spotify. Dry kill is,
you know, where you find all themusic. And, you know, we have
a.com but it's not a specialproperty in the sense of, you
know, over overriding anythingwe're doing on social, we're

there far more. And then the show, show dates will
be on all that stuff to them.
Yeah, yeah, perfect. Okay, well,thank you so much for doing
this. Anything else to promote?

No, man, that's it. Thank you so much for having
me. I appreciate it big. Thanksto everybody for listening, and
I hope to see you soon in anupcoming show, we'll get as
close to. As we can, I don'tknow when, but hopefully when we
come to town in Arizona, we'llsee you soon.

Yeah, let me know I'll be here. Awesome. Okay, see
ya later. Man, you

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Cliff Rigano Discusses Dry Kill Logic's Comeback, New Music, Shows & More!

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