August 31, 2025 • 34 mins
Vernon Reid discussed his new solo album, recorded partly at Super Giraffe Sound and featuring collaborations with Greg Tate's band Burnt Sugar, DJ Logic, and others. The album includes licensed audio snippets and spoken word recordings, including a subway performer. Reid highlighted the eclectic nature of the album, crediting co-producer Ivan Julian and mix engineer Scotty Hard. He also reflected on themes of accountability over revenge, personal regrets, and the impact of losing friends like Greg Tate and Ronnie Drayton. Upcoming plans include a potential headlining tour and new material for Living Colour, with a focus on maintaining a balance between solo projects and the band.
00:00 - Intro
00:20 - Recording New Album & Guests
02:30 - Good Afternoon Everyone & NY Life
05:30 - Seattle History & Living Colour Live
07:35 - Making the New Solo Record
09:30 - Dying to Live Cover Song
11:25 - Moby Dick & Revenge
15:25 - New Song "The Haunting" & Regret
22:10 - Meaning of this New Album & Dedications
23:53 - Life is Fundamentally Unfair & Betrayal
26:05 - Success, Fame, Happiness & Early Death
30:10 - Beautiful Bastard, Solo & Story
33:30 - Ending Promotions
34:29 - Outro
Living Colour website:
Chuck Shute link tree:
Thanks for Listening & Shute for the Moon!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
THEME SONG (00:04):
Down with the heavy stars, rocking, rolling through
the cool guitars. Chuck's gotthe questions, digging so sharp,
peeling back layers, hitting theheart.
Chuck Shute (00:20):
How are things?
Where are you now?
Vernon Reid (00:23):
I'm in, I'm in Shaolin, aka Staten Island. I'm
in, I'm in the The Man Cave,also known as hoarder gear hole,
also known as the Dharma lab.
Chuck Shute (00:35):
Oh, okay, is that where you recorded this newest
Vernon Reid (00:38):
album? I'm a bit some of it. Mainly, I recorded
at uh, super giraffe sound, um,Ivan Julian spot in DUMBO.
Chuck Shute (00:47):
And who did you have gas? You must have had
guests on this album, because itsounds like there's so many
different sounds. And I'mthinking, this is not just all
you that made this. You musthave, no,
Vernon Reid (00:56):
no, I had, uh, played with the band, uh, burnt
sugar, you know, which is GregTate's band, you know, a bunch
of live things. There's a great,you know, DJ logic played on
this record. Yeah, differentvocalists, yeah, there were
different guests, you know.
Chuck Shute (01:13):
Okay, that makes sense. Yes, I was like, Wow,
there's so many different now,how do you get all the spoken
word things? Is it hard to getthe rights for that, because it
sounds like you took snippets ofdifferent movies or TV.
Vernon Reid (01:25):
Some stuff is in the public domain. Other things
were found, were found, and yes,and some of the stuff was
licensed, is like, licensedlike, like, in black fathom the
black Fathom Five, you know,that's all it has, like,
(01:46):
licensed, like saying, you know,like sampling CDs, you know,
licensed audio snippets frommovies,
Chuck Shute (01:53):
okay, because that one sounds like, it's almost
like a, like a beat poetry kindof, is that you just speak. It's
like a spoken,
Vernon Reid (01:58):
oh no, that's, that's, that's, that's beans,
that's the rapper. Who's he'sgot, I mean, he is. He talks
incredibly fast. That's beans,yeah, to their two rappers on
this, nyronic is on, is Goodafternoon on Good afternoon
everyone. And beans is on black,Fathom Five,
Chuck Shute (02:20):
okay, yeah. I think the good afternoon everyone that
definitely had some spoke some,yeah, some spoken
Vernon Reid (02:25):
word. I recorded that. I literally recorded that
person in the subway, in the NewYork City Subway, yeah, yeah. It
was, he was, it was, it wasamazing, because he just was
Good afternoon. He wasincredibly polite. And he said,
he said, the same sequence, goodafternoon, everyone, can anyone
help me with something to eattoday? Good afternoon. Everyone,
(02:47):
can anyone help me withsomething to eat today? Yeah,
yeah. And, and what was soamazing about it was that he was
so well spoken, and his rage wascompletely tightly controlled,
you know, he, I felt that, buthe also stayed unfailingly
(03:08):
polite.
Chuck Shute (03:09):
So you did, but you sensed a rage. Oh
Vernon Reid (03:12):
yeah, is, if there's anyone who's not
ungrateful for what they have intheir life, could help me with
something to eat today, youknow, he, that was, that's one
of the phrases that he throws inif there's anyone who's not
ungrateful for what they have inlife that can help him with
something to eat today, goodafternoon. Good afternoon.
Everyone
Chuck Shute (03:30):
that's Do you think he was suffering from mental
health issues or drug issues orjust just poverty?
Vernon Reid (03:36):
I think, I think I he didn't seem crazy to me. He
seemed very he seemed he wasn't,he wasn't wild eye. He was he
was just, he was very focused,and that my and I'm sure, I'm
sure I'm, certainly, I'm, I'm,don't doubt that he was, that he
(03:58):
wasn't suffering some form oftrauma. But I didn't get the, I
didn't, certainly didn't get theidea of drugs from this person.
Chuck Shute (04:05):
Interesting. Yeah, New York is such a it's an
amazing place. So manyinteresting people. I didn't get
to explore when I went, I wasjust in the, you know, the main
Manhattan. I didn't get to goto, like, all the I think I we
got to, like, the BrooklynBridge. That was about as far as
we but I didn't go to Brooklynor Staten Island, all those
other suburbs. Oh, yeah,
Vernon Reid (04:21):
you got to get gay man best pizza in, you know,
Staten Island, we will claim it.
You know, there's, there's anongoing fight about who makes
the best pizza. Staten Islandwill win, really, even though I
am a Brooklyn even though I am aBrooklynite. So,
Chuck Shute (04:33):
okay, yeah, I need to explore. It's just such a
fascinating area. I mean, I'mfrom Seattle originally, but
there's so much more history onthe East Coast, like some of
those places, have been therefor I think I went to some bar
that George Washington drank atwhich I was like,
Vernon Reid (04:48):
that's what Francis tavern was a Francis tavern.
Chuck Shute (04:52):
It was the one where was like, the ground was
like, sawdust or something. Itwas crazy. Wow.
Vernon Reid (04:57):
I know that. I know that there's, there is. Is
Francis tavern. Is the is theoldest continue it's the oldest
bar or the oldest continuouslyoperating restaurant in the
states, if I'm not mistaken,yeah, and that goes back to
revolutionary war times.
Chuck Shute (05:18):
Yeah, it's, it's crazy to see on that East Coast,
like I said, Seattle. I mean, wegot history. We have, like, an
underground city that's sofascinating too. But yeah, the
East Coast, it's like a wholeand I haven't, I never been to
Europe, and all any of theworld, there's so much crazy
history, I find
Vernon Reid (05:31):
that I like how you toss up underground city just
like, oh, there's an undergroundcity thing, yeah,
Chuck Shute (05:38):
yeah. Like, what's happened with Seattle is the
city burned down. And so insteadof tearing it down and
rebuilding it, they just built anew city on top of the old one.
That's really bizarre. So theold stuff, go underground and
see it. I don't know if you'veever done that. I have
Vernon Reid (05:50):
not. I have to do that the next time we're going
to be living color, we're goingto be there in September. I
would love to see theunderground city. I always go to
the to the to the market, to thePike Place, yeah, yeah, I saw
it. I
Chuck Shute (06:07):
saw you guys. I'm in Phoenix now, and I saw you
guys open for extreme. And Ijust, I That's why, when I saw
your name come up that you weredoing press, I was like, Oh, I
gotta get you on. Thank you.
Yeah. You guys killed it at thatshow, I mean. And no offense to
extreme, they they put on an Aplus show, but you guys are,
like, a plus plus plus. Like, Iwas blown away at how good you
guys sounded.
Vernon Reid (06:29):
And, well, thank you. You know. Well, you know,
Hey, man, Nuno is Nuno, but wedid have a good show that day.
We did have a good show.
Chuck Shute (06:36):
Yeah, you feel the emotion you got. You guys just
you're clicking on allcylinders. I think you did. You
did it. Did you do a Princesong? You did some comments,
Vernon Reid (06:44):
nothing. We did nothing compares to you. That.
Yeah, nothing compares to you.
Yeah,
Chuck Shute (06:48):
yeah. I mean the solos and stuff. I mean, it blew
me away. I couldn't believe it.
All Right on, man, right on,yeah. I was a fan before, but
then now I'm like more, youknow, Die Hard. I think I I want
to see you do a head. Are yougoing to be doing a headlining
tour? Is that the next
Vernon Reid (07:02):
Yeah, man, we're thinking about it, thinking
about bands that we could gowith. And, yeah, we're talking
Chuck Shute (07:08):
about it. Oh, really. Okay, so which bands do
you think you would go? Yeah,talk about,
Vernon Reid (07:12):
can't talk about that just yet. Okay, we're still
talking about it.
Chuck Shute (07:16):
What about a new record for him for loving color?
Vernon Reid (07:20):
Yeah, yeah. We're, um, in the right, in the writing
process. We started writing. Westarted for a few months. Now
we're in the writing process.
The other thing
Chuck Shute (07:29):
that's exciting, yeah, I mean, I love this new
solo stuff too. This, this seemslike you just, it's like you
just had so much fun making it,like I bet you just had because
you could do whatever you want.
It's your record. You don't haveto worry about compromising with
band members.
Vernon Reid (07:44):
Yeah, I did. I did really enjoy it, and I enjoyed
working with Ivan Julian. Youknow, who was the engineer, and
I credit him as a co producer,because, you know, he's a legend
in his own writing. He playedwith Richard hell in the
voidoids, and he's just a greatengineer as well as great guitar
player. And then I also workedwith Scotty hard, who mixed the
(08:08):
album, and Mike Tucci, whomastered it. We were a good,
really good team.
Chuck Shute (08:13):
Yeah, did you have a vision of how that whole album
would be? Is because it seems tobe more eclectic, like you kind
of were like rules.
Vernon Reid (08:22):
It is very eclectic. I did want it to be
from tune to tune. I mean, itmoves all over the place, but
there is, there is connectivetissue going through it. There
is a connective there's aconnective feeling going through
(08:42):
the album, even with, even withthe fact that it is, I admit,
it's all over the place. Andpart of that is, you know, what
was great was working with,working with the mixing, our mix
engineer, you know, he helped topull things together and deal
with edits and things like that.
Like, he, he certain tunes, heeven shortened them, and they
(09:04):
just fit better because they gotto the, they kind of got to
their point, you know, justfaster than if, you know, like,
then if, instead of, like, therebeing four solos, okay, let's
just have two, you know, likethat, you know stuff. So he saw,
yeah, yeah,
Chuck Shute (09:24):
yeah. It's amazing how you put this all together.
Like the song dying to live.
It's such a slow down. It's akind of a sad, emotional song
with a great solo. It's, it's,only has, it has a calming vibe,
but then it kind of endsstressful, if that makes sense.
That's getting from it,
Vernon Reid (09:42):
yeah, man, well, that's a great Edgar Winter
Song, and it's a tune that I'vealways,
Chuck Shute (09:48):
oh, that's a cover.
I didn't know that. Yeah,
Vernon Reid (09:50):
yeah, no, that's a song that I've always loved,
dying to live is, is a coverand, and unfortunately, the the
singer of that song, you. Passedaway. I recorded it a while
back, and we recorded a whileback, and then I found it and
and resurrected it, and then putnew drums, new guitar, you know,
(10:14):
new bass and, and, but I keptone thing, and that's the DJ
logic does this whole kind ofalmost like whale song, whale
sounds, and it gives it aquality, I didn't even realize
(10:34):
how much, because when we didone of the early mixes, we took
it out, and then it just, itkind of did work. You know, it
just felt weird. And we put thewhales, you know, the whale
sounds back in. And there's afeeling of mourning, even though
it's non human. That reallyhelps to frame the words and the
(10:58):
lyrics. And it's, it's kind oflike, like, this non linear
thing that you think, what isthat, but it, having lived with
it, now, you know, I it couldn'tbe on the record without it,
Chuck Shute (11:14):
yeah? No, I thought it was. It almost sounds like,
like, like a puppy wailing orsomething like, it was a very,
very interesting sound,
Vernon Reid (11:21):
yeah, kind of funny, man. I just, I just re
read Moby Dick. This I'm notgonna go down that rabbit hole,
but, but, I tell you, if youwant to learn about whaling Moby
Dick.
Chuck Shute (11:31):
Oh, okay, yeah, I don't think I've ever read that
book. I'm surprised. I didn'tmake a movie of that. Or maybe
they didn't. They did
Vernon Reid (11:37):
make a movie with Gregory Peck. They did make a
movie with Gregory Peck but,but, but, but, after reading it,
it's kind of a lot. It's a long,long book. It's absolutely it's
something James Cameron shouldhave made Moby Dick after
Titanic, because it's such ait's an incredibly dramatic
(12:03):
story. And it's really about manseeking revenge from nature, you
know, like in seeking and it'sabout, it's about the the cost
of seeking revenge. It's aboutthe cost of, you know, what,
what? What are you willing tosacrifice to seek revenge?
Chuck Shute (12:28):
You know, that's interesting. How do you feel
about that, you know, for yourwisdom of over life. Do you
think revenge is worth seeking?
Because I feel like, the older Iget, the less revenge full I
feel like, I feel like,
Vernon Reid (12:41):
I think accountability. I think
accountability and justice overrevenge. Accountability like,
you know, like anybody that'sbeen wrong has the right to tell
their story. It has the day ofthe right to tell this story
without interruption, withoutOh, but, you know, without the
(13:04):
no like this is what happened toyou. And yeah, revenge is they
say, if you, what they say, ifyou, if you want to, if you want
to seek revenge, make sure to tobreak to to make sure to dig two
graves, you know, instead ofone, right? Yeah, yeah. I think
(13:25):
accountability, revenge is, Ithink it's the, you know, it's
re traumatizing. Seeking revengeon a certain level brings you,
you never get away from the illfeeling. It's firing, and
revenge is what's firing the illfeeling. That's why they say
revenge is a dish best servedcold, you know, without emotion.
(13:48):
So, you know, I don't know, man,the other thing too, is, if
you're seeking revenge, youshould know for certain, for
certain that the one you'reseeking revenge against was
fully cognizant of what theywere doing. Like they did this
(14:10):
thing to they, like they wentout of their way to do this to
you, as opposed to a mistake, anaccident, a miscommunication,
you know, and like the likesaying, I'm going to get I'm
going to get revenge. You shouldknow all the facts before you go
(14:31):
that far. You should know all ofthem, and you should know them
cold. You should know themwithout your anger because you
did something went down that youdidn't like, so you're angry
about it, but just being angryabout you, you know what it's
like somebody cuts you off whenyou're driving. You don't know
(14:54):
that they have to get somewhereor they've got a sick person in
the. Are, or, you know, it couldbe anything, or they could be
having a medical emergency, or,you know, so before we assume
that they decided to mess withyou, you know, but before it
becomes an incident, now you'rejust reacting, you might need to
(15:17):
know a little bit more anyway.
Chuck Shute (15:18):
Blah, blah, yeah, no, it's a fascinating topic. I
always think of that. So, Imean, because your newest song,
the haunting, I mean, that'sabout you looking back and
looking back on your life, andprocrastination, regret and
those kinds of things, right?
Yeah,
Vernon Reid (15:32):
yeah. It's about, it's about, it's Yeah, because
it's not, it's procrastinationis one thing, but it is about
regret. It's also about beinghaunting. The haunting. See, I
named the haunting because, youknow, we're fascinated with
ghosts and like that. So, okay,I don't know about that, but I
(15:53):
do know. I don't don't knowabout the supernatural. I do
know you could be haunted bymissing the last shot of your
championship basketball game,you can be haunted about the car
accident that you caused, right?
You can be haunted about amissed opportunity, about you
(16:14):
should have returned that email.
You should have opened thatenvelope. You can you you should
have returned that phone call.
You can be haunted. And I thinkin every life there is
something, something can besmall, it could be major, and it
can run your life.
Chuck Shute (16:38):
That's interesting, because I when I look at you. I
go, wow, this guy has done itall. He's won Grammys. He's
played with Mick Jagger andJanet Jackson and BB King and
Santana and all you know, youryour career and your your life,
that I could see is, is amazing.
Is there something it
Vernon Reid (16:54):
is it is amazing, and I'm thankful for? No, I'm
thankful for, yeah, but I've,you know, they're things that I
messed up. They're things Imessed up with people. There are
things that I've opportunitiesas you know, that I missed
because I didn't, you know, Imean, I'm a human being. I made
I've made my mistakes. Ifortunately have not made the
(17:14):
kind of mistakes, you know,their mistakes and their
mistakes. And there are all capsmistakes, you know. And I'm very
I feel very fortunate that Ihaven't made the all caps
mistakes, you know. I recentlygot back together with a friend
of mine who I thought that Ilost. Hey, babe, I'm on a zoom,
Chuck Shute (17:42):
you know? Oh, that's great. I love to hear
those kind of stories, you know.
Vernon Reid (17:46):
And but we, it was so interesting that we, we had a
period of not talking to eachother for a number of years, and
we ran into each other, and itwas over. I mean, it was the
thing that kind of it was over.
They were over it, and I feltbad for years, and then we'd
(18:12):
started communicating, and itwas fantastic. It was fantastic
to communicate with this personagain. How did
Chuck Shute (18:30):
you do that? Was it just running into the person? I
mean, do you think something hadchanged, just time had healed
it?
Vernon Reid (18:35):
I think time. I think I actually do believe that
it was time. And then you knowthings you did when you were
much younger. You know thingsyou did when you were much
younger, or you were in adifferent circumstance. You
know, fortunately, if you're ifyou're lucky, you could talk
(18:58):
about it again. Because, youknow, we are go, we are we are
we are we are also ghosts topeople, right? People talk about
ghosting like the lost friend,the lost partner in business,
the lost team, the, you know,the person that you just
(19:20):
something went down. You youthought they said a lot of
times. You know, people maketheir decision, and that's how
they live their life, that's howthey protect themselves. And
maybe it wasn't what you thoughtit was. Maybe it's something
else. I mean, if you care aboutpeople, see, the thing is, you
(19:42):
if you don't care about people,there's no problem. There's no
problem. You don't care if youdon't care about people, then,
then there's no problem to speakof. And there are many people
that don't care about people, sowhat I'm talking about is not
relevant to them. I'm talkingabout people that actually have
feelings. You. Or you know, oractually think about right and
(20:03):
wrong, or feel you know whetherwas done to them, or whether
they did it or or they weresuspected of doing it. And
that's the haunting is about.
It's so it's kind of ourprocrastination, but it's about
those kind of regrets you knowthat I think come across in many
lives, not not necessarily,gonna say, all lives, but in
(20:25):
many lives, you know, people aremessed up by things. I remember
they had the greatest this film,The Greatest Generation, right,
was about World War Two, andthere was a veteran. It was a
veteran, and he shot a Germansoldier. He shot a German
soldier, and he never and he wasa kid. He realized he shot
(20:51):
someone. He was a kid, and heshot a kid, he's 19, and he shot
someone that was like 19 or 20,and it was part of his mission.
And in fact, he got the drop onhim before he could, before this
(21:11):
the soldier could react, he shothim, and he any, any he was
still grief. They wereinterviewing it, and he was
still grief stricken over it.
And, you know, fortunately,things that dramatic don't
(21:32):
happen to most lives. But, youknow, I mean, I think, I think a
lot of people, they people, Imean, that's what reality TV is
for.
Chuck Shute (21:43):
Well, yeah, I mean, you're right. There's, there's
people that I feel like I'm inthat category of people who care
about, I mean, I care not onlyabout my friends and family, but
just complete strangers. I worryabout everybody. I want everyone
to be happy. And so, yeah, andthen you just try to figure out,
like, well, what can I do? Ithink for you, it's like just
doing music. I think makes healsthe world. I think music brings
(22:03):
people together. I think it canchange opinions. It can change
mood, for sure, and I mean, withthis album, it's just amazing
what you've done, the emotionthat I can feel listening to it.
Vernon Reid (22:14):
Well, thank you so much. I mean, it's, um, a lot of
this, like I said, a lot of thisrecord is because, you know, my
friend Greg Tate passed away inDecember 7, 2021, and it was one
of the, it was one of the eventsthat shifted the making of this
(22:36):
album. For me. It changed themeaning of it. You know, it
changed the meaning of it. And Imean, he's a person I'm grateful
for knowing and loving, and he'sjust a really good friend to me.
And I've lost certain otherpeople I made some dedications
(22:58):
to, to different people, and thegreat guitarist, you know,
Ronnie Gray, passed in the inthe during the making of this
record.
Chuck Shute (23:09):
Gail, yeah, yeah. I was going to say, I mean, you
have the song meditation on thelast time I see reams. I mean,
that's another one that I mean,gone way too soon and way too
soon. What a brilliant,
Vernon Reid (23:21):
what a brilliant, what a brilliant, brilliant,
brilliant, brilliant, brilliantmusician. And, you know, mostly
unknown on, you know, known to,you know, maybe, maybe there are
1000 people who know, you mean,who remember him from, you know,
as a small amount of people thatthat that saw him play the
(23:42):
saxophone, forget about him andplayed the guitar. You know
play, heard him play thesaxophone, or heard him play
piano. He just was a singularperson. And the one, one great
lesson I learned fromexperiencing Arthur Rheims and
knowing Arthur Rheims was lifeis fundamentally unfair. It's
(24:03):
fundamentally unfair, and thatthe greatest, the best, the most
wonderful designers, the bet youknow they, for a lot of those
folks, go unknown and likefriends Kafka, right? Friends
Kafka, Max Broder his phrasebest friend, when, when friends
(24:24):
Kafka was on his deathbed. He,he, he asked his friend to burn
all his writings and and MaxBroder could, didn't do
Chuck Shute (24:38):
it. Why did he want him to burn it? I don't get it.
Vernon Reid (24:40):
Because he was miserable. He was not for he
died, he he was not famous inhis lifetime. He didn't make
any, he didn't, he didn't, Idon't think he published any. He
didn't make anything. He know hewas not. I mean, Franz Kafka
redefined literature. Hiswriting redefined literature,
but not in his lifetime. Hmm, inhis lifetime, you broke and all
(25:06):
like his best friend said, man,his friend knew that his friend
was a genius. So I think it'sincredible that you make your
friend promise to you know,because you're depressed and
you're you're done with it, youmake a friend promise to to burn
everything, and then you can'tdo it. So you think about
(25:31):
betrayal, right? We only thinkabout betrayal. We always think
about betrayal in one light,right? There's a certain light,
and it's that light that alloftentimes leads to revenge
betrayal, but Max, broader gavea gift to the world by betraying
his friend. There's always adifferent way. There's always
(25:55):
another way to look at acircumstance
Chuck Shute (25:58):
that is so interesting, and it's
interesting for me to see what'spopular with people, you know
what I mean. And you probablyhave an opinion on this, because
living color, I mean, obviously,you've, you've reached success,
you've won Grammys, you'vetoured with amazing art. But
then there's, there might be apart of you that thinks you guys
should have been bigger too,right? We
Vernon Reid (26:15):
should have, would have put up, you know, and it
should have, would have put a,you know, like, could have been
bigger. Could have been morefamous, more famous, more hit
songs. So I'm talking to youright. Here's something that's
crazy, that is a pointless fact.
I was born in 1958 I was born in1958 Michael Jackson, myself.
Michael Jackson, Prince andSharon Stone were all born in
(26:40):
1958 now the world will neverforget Michael Jackson ever,
ever Right. They'll never forgetPrince, ever, not possible now
in time, and I hope it's not. Ihope it's no time soon. You
(27:03):
know, I'm, I'm not the mostfamous dude to ever pick up the
guitar, but the thing is, we'retalking I'm, I'm here for
whatever reason. Was born thesame year as those dudes, and
you gotta ask yourself, well,what would you rather be? Would
(27:26):
you rather be incredibly famousand rich? But here's the thing,
you're gonna you're gonna diebefore your 60th birthday,
right? Somebody comes to tellyou, says you're going to be the
most famous, incredible. Yourwriting is going to you're going
to be Wow. They're going to,they tell you, at 40 you're
going to be the you're going toall the cars, you're going to
(27:49):
have the all the things. Here'sthe problem, though, you're
going to, you know, you're goingto have everything the world is
coming to your doorstep. Thething is, you're go, you have to
leave at 59 they tell you thatat 40 or you can go with behind,
behind door number two. Doornumber one, you get to be the
ultimate. You get to be theGrand Poobah of everything. 59
(28:12):
you're out on door number two.
You don't get to be all thatfame. You get a little
something. You're not going tobe, that you're not going to be,
but we don't know when yourexpiration date is. You're going
to keep with it, right? I don'tknow what's behind door number
(28:42):
three, either. And I say, youknow what i i I'm happy with all
my you know, of course, I havemy moments, but you know, my
daughter graduated college inMay, and you know Michael didn't
get to see his daughter graduatecollege. Prince didn't get the
(29:04):
grad Prince, you know.
Unfortunately, he should have,he should have had a harem and
had a bunch of kids, you know,but I saw my daughter get her
diploma. I wouldn't tradeanything that they had for that,
Chuck Shute (29:24):
wow, yeah. I mean, you wonder, too, like that, even
the time that they were here,were they happy? Because it
seems like, if you dive into it,they may have been suffering. I
know prince, I think he was inextreme pain. That's
Vernon Reid (29:37):
why, yeah, yeah, it was extreme pain. And, you know,
then there's, apparently,there's some religious issue
with him getting a bloodtransfusion and all of those
things. Anyway, let's let me onemore question about the album.
Then I think I have to go,
Chuck Shute (29:57):
Yeah, okay, no, I hear one more question. You.
Gosh, let's see what. There's somany great What about the song?
Let's see. We talked about dyingto live. Whoa. What was the
second single, beautifulbastard, that all the I think
that that might be my favoritesolo. How do you how do you get
(30:18):
into that mood to do that and Ifeel the emotion. How do you get
into mode?
Vernon Reid (30:23):
Well, you know, it was so funny because part of it
was playing the melody. There'sa little bit of the melody in
the in the solo, and then, youknow, I had a placeholder solo
for a while, and didn't like itat all, and and I vowed that I
was going to, that I was gonnachange it. And the song is so
(30:49):
it's subtle. It's very much in aquite a classic doomed it's a
kind of doomed love song, andit's about duplicity. It's about
passion. It's about what happenswhen someone who's wholly
(31:11):
unsuitable, you can't get awayfrom who they are. You can't get
away from it like the firstlines, beautiful bastard, am I
your slave this time, or am Iyour master? Who am who? What
are we doing today? What is it?
You know, I start to run faster,right? I'm I've got to, I've got
to leave you alone. But think ofyour face, and I'm frozen in
(31:33):
place. And it's, it's right,it's very romantic, but it's not
at all happy. It's very youknow, it's, it's, it's, it's
about recognizing, it'srecognizing that there are
people you should never meet.
There really are. There arepeople. There's whoever you're,
(31:56):
whatever gender you're attractedto, but there's a woman that
will have you behind the wheelof the getaway car like I
absolutely believe it. Therethere are people. There are
people that are fabulous to meetyou're destined to meet. And
they're people. And I'm not, youknow, and I'm not, I'm not
(32:17):
talking about the hardcore, thehorrible. There are people you
should never meet at that bar.
You should never Your eyesshould never meet, because when
that happens, all bets are off.
Chuck Shute (32:41):
And I think we've all had a girl like that in our
oh, oh. I
Vernon Reid (32:45):
absolutely had, oh, I actually had a particular I
had a particular woman in mindwhen I wrote the song. And it
was not good, fabulous, notgood. And unfortunately, it
(33:05):
didn't end the way the songends, you know, but it was it,
you know. I can honestly saymeeting my second wife was the
only way I broke the spell. Oh,
Chuck Shute (33:22):
that's amazing.
Well, and you had got a greatsong out of it. The whole album
is great. It's going to be outin October, I believe. And
there's two right now. Yeah, twosongs are out now that people
can listen, follow you on socialmedia and Spotify and all that
stuff, or however they listen.
Yep,
Vernon Reid (33:37):
burnt. 22 on Instagram, on on Twitter, I
refuse to call it x, on bluesky, on threads, pretty read, on
Facebook. And thank you so much.
Yeah,
Chuck Shute (33:52):
thank you so much.
I can't wait to and you won't betouring solo music, just but
with living color.
Vernon Reid (33:58):
I'm gonna do like individual shows when I can know
I have a show at the blue noteon the 24th of September. But
you know, of course, my focus isliving color. So anytime I can
do something with the Hulutelemetry project, I I'm happy.
I'm look forward to it. But myfocus is Living Color, first and
(34:20):
foremost,
Chuck Shute (34:21):
awesome. Well, thank you so much for doing
this. I appreciate it and have agood rest of your
Vernon Reid (34:25):
day. Hey, man, have a great weekend. All right. You
Chuck Shute (34:27):
too, bye bye,
THEME SONG (34:30):
bye, bye.
Unknown (34:40):
You.
Down with the heavy stars, rocking, rolling through
the cool guitars. Chuck's gotthe questions, digging so sharp,
peeling back layers, hitting theheart.
Chuck Shute (00:20):
How are things?
Where are you now?
Vernon Reid (00:23):
I'm in, I'm in Shaolin, aka Staten Island. I'm
in, I'm in the The Man Cave,also known as hoarder gear hole,
also known as the Dharma lab.
Chuck Shute (00:35):
Oh, okay, is that where you recorded this newest
Vernon Reid (00:38):
album? I'm a bit some of it. Mainly, I recorded
at uh, super giraffe sound, um,Ivan Julian spot in DUMBO.
Chuck Shute (00:47):
And who did you have gas? You must have had
guests on this album, because itsounds like there's so many
different sounds. And I'mthinking, this is not just all
you that made this. You musthave, no,
Vernon Reid (00:56):
no, I had, uh, played with the band, uh, burnt
sugar, you know, which is GregTate's band, you know, a bunch
of live things. There's a great,you know, DJ logic played on
this record. Yeah, differentvocalists, yeah, there were
different guests, you know.
Chuck Shute (01:13):
Okay, that makes sense. Yes, I was like, Wow,
there's so many different now,how do you get all the spoken
word things? Is it hard to getthe rights for that, because it
sounds like you took snippets ofdifferent movies or TV.
Vernon Reid (01:25):
Some stuff is in the public domain. Other things
were found, were found, and yes,and some of the stuff was
licensed, is like, licensedlike, like, in black fathom the
black Fathom Five, you know,that's all it has, like,
(01:46):
licensed, like saying, you know,like sampling CDs, you know,
licensed audio snippets frommovies,
Chuck Shute (01:53):
okay, because that one sounds like, it's almost
like a, like a beat poetry kindof, is that you just speak. It's
like a spoken,
Vernon Reid (01:58):
oh no, that's, that's, that's, that's beans,
that's the rapper. Who's he'sgot, I mean, he is. He talks
incredibly fast. That's beans,yeah, to their two rappers on
this, nyronic is on, is Goodafternoon on Good afternoon
everyone. And beans is on black,Fathom Five,
Chuck Shute (02:20):
okay, yeah. I think the good afternoon everyone that
definitely had some spoke some,yeah, some spoken
Vernon Reid (02:25):
word. I recorded that. I literally recorded that
person in the subway, in the NewYork City Subway, yeah, yeah. It
was, he was, it was, it wasamazing, because he just was
Good afternoon. He wasincredibly polite. And he said,
he said, the same sequence, goodafternoon, everyone, can anyone
help me with something to eattoday? Good afternoon. Everyone,
(02:47):
can anyone help me withsomething to eat today? Yeah,
yeah. And, and what was soamazing about it was that he was
so well spoken, and his rage wascompletely tightly controlled,
you know, he, I felt that, buthe also stayed unfailingly
(03:08):
polite.
Chuck Shute (03:09):
So you did, but you sensed a rage. Oh
Vernon Reid (03:12):
yeah, is, if there's anyone who's not
ungrateful for what they have intheir life, could help me with
something to eat today, youknow, he, that was, that's one
of the phrases that he throws inif there's anyone who's not
ungrateful for what they have inlife that can help him with
something to eat today, goodafternoon. Good afternoon.
Everyone
Chuck Shute (03:30):
that's Do you think he was suffering from mental
health issues or drug issues orjust just poverty?
Vernon Reid (03:36):
I think, I think I he didn't seem crazy to me. He
seemed very he seemed he wasn't,he wasn't wild eye. He was he
was just, he was very focused,and that my and I'm sure, I'm
sure I'm, certainly, I'm, I'm,don't doubt that he was, that he
(03:58):
wasn't suffering some form oftrauma. But I didn't get the, I
didn't, certainly didn't get theidea of drugs from this person.
Chuck Shute (04:05):
Interesting. Yeah, New York is such a it's an
amazing place. So manyinteresting people. I didn't get
to explore when I went, I wasjust in the, you know, the main
Manhattan. I didn't get to goto, like, all the I think I we
got to, like, the BrooklynBridge. That was about as far as
we but I didn't go to Brooklynor Staten Island, all those
other suburbs. Oh, yeah,
Vernon Reid (04:21):
you got to get gay man best pizza in, you know,
Staten Island, we will claim it.
You know, there's, there's anongoing fight about who makes
the best pizza. Staten Islandwill win, really, even though I
am a Brooklyn even though I am aBrooklynite. So,
Chuck Shute (04:33):
okay, yeah, I need to explore. It's just such a
fascinating area. I mean, I'mfrom Seattle originally, but
there's so much more history onthe East Coast, like some of
those places, have been therefor I think I went to some bar
that George Washington drank atwhich I was like,
Vernon Reid (04:48):
that's what Francis tavern was a Francis tavern.
Chuck Shute (04:52):
It was the one where was like, the ground was
like, sawdust or something. Itwas crazy. Wow.
Vernon Reid (04:57):
I know that. I know that there's, there is. Is
Francis tavern. Is the is theoldest continue it's the oldest
bar or the oldest continuouslyoperating restaurant in the
states, if I'm not mistaken,yeah, and that goes back to
revolutionary war times.
Chuck Shute (05:18):
Yeah, it's, it's crazy to see on that East Coast,
like I said, Seattle. I mean, wegot history. We have, like, an
underground city that's sofascinating too. But yeah, the
East Coast, it's like a wholeand I haven't, I never been to
Europe, and all any of theworld, there's so much crazy
history, I find
Vernon Reid (05:31):
that I like how you toss up underground city just
like, oh, there's an undergroundcity thing, yeah,
Chuck Shute (05:38):
yeah. Like, what's happened with Seattle is the
city burned down. And so insteadof tearing it down and
rebuilding it, they just built anew city on top of the old one.
That's really bizarre. So theold stuff, go underground and
see it. I don't know if you'veever done that. I have
Vernon Reid (05:50):
not. I have to do that the next time we're going
to be living color, we're goingto be there in September. I
would love to see theunderground city. I always go to
the to the to the market, to thePike Place, yeah, yeah, I saw
it. I
Chuck Shute (06:07):
saw you guys. I'm in Phoenix now, and I saw you
guys open for extreme. And Ijust, I That's why, when I saw
your name come up that you weredoing press, I was like, Oh, I
gotta get you on. Thank you.
Yeah. You guys killed it at thatshow, I mean. And no offense to
extreme, they they put on an Aplus show, but you guys are,
like, a plus plus plus. Like, Iwas blown away at how good you
guys sounded.
Vernon Reid (06:29):
And, well, thank you. You know. Well, you know,
Hey, man, Nuno is Nuno, but wedid have a good show that day.
We did have a good show.
Chuck Shute (06:36):
Yeah, you feel the emotion you got. You guys just
you're clicking on allcylinders. I think you did. You
did it. Did you do a Princesong? You did some comments,
Vernon Reid (06:44):
nothing. We did nothing compares to you. That.
Yeah, nothing compares to you.
Yeah,
Chuck Shute (06:48):
yeah. I mean the solos and stuff. I mean, it blew
me away. I couldn't believe it.
All Right on, man, right on,yeah. I was a fan before, but
then now I'm like more, youknow, Die Hard. I think I I want
to see you do a head. Are yougoing to be doing a headlining
tour? Is that the next
Vernon Reid (07:02):
Yeah, man, we're thinking about it, thinking
about bands that we could gowith. And, yeah, we're talking
Chuck Shute (07:08):
about it. Oh, really. Okay, so which bands do
you think you would go? Yeah,talk about,
Vernon Reid (07:12):
can't talk about that just yet. Okay, we're still
talking about it.
Chuck Shute (07:16):
What about a new record for him for loving color?
Vernon Reid (07:20):
Yeah, yeah. We're, um, in the right, in the writing
process. We started writing. Westarted for a few months. Now
we're in the writing process.
The other thing
Chuck Shute (07:29):
that's exciting, yeah, I mean, I love this new
solo stuff too. This, this seemslike you just, it's like you
just had so much fun making it,like I bet you just had because
you could do whatever you want.
It's your record. You don't haveto worry about compromising with
band members.
Vernon Reid (07:44):
Yeah, I did. I did really enjoy it, and I enjoyed
working with Ivan Julian. Youknow, who was the engineer, and
I credit him as a co producer,because, you know, he's a legend
in his own writing. He playedwith Richard hell in the
voidoids, and he's just a greatengineer as well as great guitar
player. And then I also workedwith Scotty hard, who mixed the
(08:08):
album, and Mike Tucci, whomastered it. We were a good,
really good team.
Chuck Shute (08:13):
Yeah, did you have a vision of how that whole album
would be? Is because it seems tobe more eclectic, like you kind
of were like rules.
Vernon Reid (08:22):
It is very eclectic. I did want it to be
from tune to tune. I mean, itmoves all over the place, but
there is, there is connectivetissue going through it. There
is a connective there's aconnective feeling going through
(08:42):
the album, even with, even withthe fact that it is, I admit,
it's all over the place. Andpart of that is, you know, what
was great was working with,working with the mixing, our mix
engineer, you know, he helped topull things together and deal
with edits and things like that.
Like, he, he certain tunes, heeven shortened them, and they
(09:04):
just fit better because they gotto the, they kind of got to
their point, you know, justfaster than if, you know, like,
then if, instead of, like, therebeing four solos, okay, let's
just have two, you know, likethat, you know stuff. So he saw,
yeah, yeah,
Chuck Shute (09:24):
yeah. It's amazing how you put this all together.
Like the song dying to live.
It's such a slow down. It's akind of a sad, emotional song
with a great solo. It's, it's,only has, it has a calming vibe,
but then it kind of endsstressful, if that makes sense.
That's getting from it,
Vernon Reid (09:42):
yeah, man, well, that's a great Edgar Winter
Song, and it's a tune that I'vealways,
Chuck Shute (09:48):
oh, that's a cover.
I didn't know that. Yeah,
Vernon Reid (09:50):
yeah, no, that's a song that I've always loved,
dying to live is, is a coverand, and unfortunately, the the
singer of that song, you. Passedaway. I recorded it a while
back, and we recorded a whileback, and then I found it and
and resurrected it, and then putnew drums, new guitar, you know,
(10:14):
new bass and, and, but I keptone thing, and that's the DJ
logic does this whole kind ofalmost like whale song, whale
sounds, and it gives it aquality, I didn't even realize
(10:34):
how much, because when we didone of the early mixes, we took
it out, and then it just, itkind of did work. You know, it
just felt weird. And we put thewhales, you know, the whale
sounds back in. And there's afeeling of mourning, even though
it's non human. That reallyhelps to frame the words and the
(10:58):
lyrics. And it's, it's kind oflike, like, this non linear
thing that you think, what isthat, but it, having lived with
it, now, you know, I it couldn'tbe on the record without it,
Chuck Shute (11:14):
yeah? No, I thought it was. It almost sounds like,
like, like a puppy wailing orsomething like, it was a very,
very interesting sound,
Vernon Reid (11:21):
yeah, kind of funny, man. I just, I just re
read Moby Dick. This I'm notgonna go down that rabbit hole,
but, but, I tell you, if youwant to learn about whaling Moby
Dick.
Chuck Shute (11:31):
Oh, okay, yeah, I don't think I've ever read that
book. I'm surprised. I didn'tmake a movie of that. Or maybe
they didn't. They did
Vernon Reid (11:37):
make a movie with Gregory Peck. They did make a
movie with Gregory Peck but,but, but, but, after reading it,
it's kind of a lot. It's a long,long book. It's absolutely it's
something James Cameron shouldhave made Moby Dick after
Titanic, because it's such ait's an incredibly dramatic
(12:03):
story. And it's really about manseeking revenge from nature, you
know, like in seeking and it'sabout, it's about the the cost
of seeking revenge. It's aboutthe cost of, you know, what,
what? What are you willing tosacrifice to seek revenge?
Chuck Shute (12:28):
You know, that's interesting. How do you feel
about that, you know, for yourwisdom of over life. Do you
think revenge is worth seeking?
Because I feel like, the older Iget, the less revenge full I
feel like, I feel like,
Vernon Reid (12:41):
I think accountability. I think
accountability and justice overrevenge. Accountability like,
you know, like anybody that'sbeen wrong has the right to tell
their story. It has the day ofthe right to tell this story
without interruption, withoutOh, but, you know, without the
(13:04):
no like this is what happened toyou. And yeah, revenge is they
say, if you, what they say, ifyou, if you want to, if you want
to seek revenge, make sure to tobreak to to make sure to dig two
graves, you know, instead ofone, right? Yeah, yeah. I think
(13:25):
accountability, revenge is, Ithink it's the, you know, it's
re traumatizing. Seeking revengeon a certain level brings you,
you never get away from the illfeeling. It's firing, and
revenge is what's firing the illfeeling. That's why they say
revenge is a dish best servedcold, you know, without emotion.
(13:48):
So, you know, I don't know, man,the other thing too, is, if
you're seeking revenge, youshould know for certain, for
certain that the one you'reseeking revenge against was
fully cognizant of what theywere doing. Like they did this
(14:10):
thing to they, like they wentout of their way to do this to
you, as opposed to a mistake, anaccident, a miscommunication,
you know, and like the likesaying, I'm going to get I'm
going to get revenge. You shouldknow all the facts before you go
(14:31):
that far. You should know all ofthem, and you should know them
cold. You should know themwithout your anger because you
did something went down that youdidn't like, so you're angry
about it, but just being angryabout you, you know what it's
like somebody cuts you off whenyou're driving. You don't know
(14:54):
that they have to get somewhereor they've got a sick person in
the. Are, or, you know, it couldbe anything, or they could be
having a medical emergency, or,you know, so before we assume
that they decided to mess withyou, you know, but before it
becomes an incident, now you'rejust reacting, you might need to
(15:17):
know a little bit more anyway.
Chuck Shute (15:18):
Blah, blah, yeah, no, it's a fascinating topic. I
always think of that. So, Imean, because your newest song,
the haunting, I mean, that'sabout you looking back and
looking back on your life, andprocrastination, regret and
those kinds of things, right?
Yeah,
Vernon Reid (15:32):
yeah. It's about, it's about, it's Yeah, because
it's not, it's procrastinationis one thing, but it is about
regret. It's also about beinghaunting. The haunting. See, I
named the haunting because, youknow, we're fascinated with
ghosts and like that. So, okay,I don't know about that, but I
(15:53):
do know. I don't don't knowabout the supernatural. I do
know you could be haunted bymissing the last shot of your
championship basketball game,you can be haunted about the car
accident that you caused, right?
You can be haunted about amissed opportunity, about you
(16:14):
should have returned that email.
You should have opened thatenvelope. You can you you should
have returned that phone call.
You can be haunted. And I thinkin every life there is
something, something can besmall, it could be major, and it
can run your life.
Chuck Shute (16:38):
That's interesting, because I when I look at you. I
go, wow, this guy has done itall. He's won Grammys. He's
played with Mick Jagger andJanet Jackson and BB King and
Santana and all you know, youryour career and your your life,
that I could see is, is amazing.
Is there something it
Vernon Reid (16:54):
is it is amazing, and I'm thankful for? No, I'm
thankful for, yeah, but I've,you know, they're things that I
messed up. They're things Imessed up with people. There are
things that I've opportunitiesas you know, that I missed
because I didn't, you know, Imean, I'm a human being. I made
I've made my mistakes. Ifortunately have not made the
(17:14):
kind of mistakes, you know,their mistakes and their
mistakes. And there are all capsmistakes, you know. And I'm very
I feel very fortunate that Ihaven't made the all caps
mistakes, you know. I recentlygot back together with a friend
of mine who I thought that Ilost. Hey, babe, I'm on a zoom,
Chuck Shute (17:42):
you know? Oh, that's great. I love to hear
those kind of stories, you know.
Vernon Reid (17:46):
And but we, it was so interesting that we, we had a
period of not talking to eachother for a number of years, and
we ran into each other, and itwas over. I mean, it was the
thing that kind of it was over.
They were over it, and I feltbad for years, and then we'd
(18:12):
started communicating, and itwas fantastic. It was fantastic
to communicate with this personagain. How did
Chuck Shute (18:30):
you do that? Was it just running into the person? I
mean, do you think something hadchanged, just time had healed
it?
Vernon Reid (18:35):
I think time. I think I actually do believe that
it was time. And then you knowthings you did when you were
much younger. You know thingsyou did when you were much
younger, or you were in adifferent circumstance. You
know, fortunately, if you're ifyou're lucky, you could talk
(18:58):
about it again. Because, youknow, we are go, we are we are
we are we are also ghosts topeople, right? People talk about
ghosting like the lost friend,the lost partner in business,
the lost team, the, you know,the person that you just
(19:20):
something went down. You youthought they said a lot of
times. You know, people maketheir decision, and that's how
they live their life, that's howthey protect themselves. And
maybe it wasn't what you thoughtit was. Maybe it's something
else. I mean, if you care aboutpeople, see, the thing is, you
(19:42):
if you don't care about people,there's no problem. There's no
problem. You don't care if youdon't care about people, then,
then there's no problem to speakof. And there are many people
that don't care about people, sowhat I'm talking about is not
relevant to them. I'm talkingabout people that actually have
feelings. You. Or you know, oractually think about right and
(20:03):
wrong, or feel you know whetherwas done to them, or whether
they did it or or they weresuspected of doing it. And
that's the haunting is about.
It's so it's kind of ourprocrastination, but it's about
those kind of regrets you knowthat I think come across in many
lives, not not necessarily,gonna say, all lives, but in
(20:25):
many lives, you know, people aremessed up by things. I remember
they had the greatest this film,The Greatest Generation, right,
was about World War Two, andthere was a veteran. It was a
veteran, and he shot a Germansoldier. He shot a German
soldier, and he never and he wasa kid. He realized he shot
(20:51):
someone. He was a kid, and heshot a kid, he's 19, and he shot
someone that was like 19 or 20,and it was part of his mission.
And in fact, he got the drop onhim before he could, before this
(21:11):
the soldier could react, he shothim, and he any, any he was
still grief. They wereinterviewing it, and he was
still grief stricken over it.
And, you know, fortunately,things that dramatic don't
(21:32):
happen to most lives. But, youknow, I mean, I think, I think a
lot of people, they people, Imean, that's what reality TV is
for.
Chuck Shute (21:43):
Well, yeah, I mean, you're right. There's, there's
people that I feel like I'm inthat category of people who care
about, I mean, I care not onlyabout my friends and family, but
just complete strangers. I worryabout everybody. I want everyone
to be happy. And so, yeah, andthen you just try to figure out,
like, well, what can I do? Ithink for you, it's like just
doing music. I think makes healsthe world. I think music brings
(22:03):
people together. I think it canchange opinions. It can change
mood, for sure, and I mean, withthis album, it's just amazing
what you've done, the emotionthat I can feel listening to it.
Vernon Reid (22:14):
Well, thank you so much. I mean, it's, um, a lot of
this, like I said, a lot of thisrecord is because, you know, my
friend Greg Tate passed away inDecember 7, 2021, and it was one
of the, it was one of the eventsthat shifted the making of this
(22:36):
album. For me. It changed themeaning of it. You know, it
changed the meaning of it. And Imean, he's a person I'm grateful
for knowing and loving, and he'sjust a really good friend to me.
And I've lost certain otherpeople I made some dedications
(22:58):
to, to different people, and thegreat guitarist, you know,
Ronnie Gray, passed in the inthe during the making of this
record.
Chuck Shute (23:09):
Gail, yeah, yeah. I was going to say, I mean, you
have the song meditation on thelast time I see reams. I mean,
that's another one that I mean,gone way too soon and way too
soon. What a brilliant,
Vernon Reid (23:21):
what a brilliant, what a brilliant, brilliant,
brilliant, brilliant, brilliantmusician. And, you know, mostly
unknown on, you know, known to,you know, maybe, maybe there are
1000 people who know, you mean,who remember him from, you know,
as a small amount of people thatthat that saw him play the
(23:42):
saxophone, forget about him andplayed the guitar. You know
play, heard him play thesaxophone, or heard him play
piano. He just was a singularperson. And the one, one great
lesson I learned fromexperiencing Arthur Rheims and
knowing Arthur Rheims was lifeis fundamentally unfair. It's
(24:03):
fundamentally unfair, and thatthe greatest, the best, the most
wonderful designers, the bet youknow they, for a lot of those
folks, go unknown and likefriends Kafka, right? Friends
Kafka, Max Broder his phrasebest friend, when, when friends
(24:24):
Kafka was on his deathbed. He,he, he asked his friend to burn
all his writings and and MaxBroder could, didn't do
Chuck Shute (24:38):
it. Why did he want him to burn it? I don't get it.
Vernon Reid (24:40):
Because he was miserable. He was not for he
died, he he was not famous inhis lifetime. He didn't make
any, he didn't, he didn't, Idon't think he published any. He
didn't make anything. He know hewas not. I mean, Franz Kafka
redefined literature. Hiswriting redefined literature,
but not in his lifetime. Hmm, inhis lifetime, you broke and all
(25:06):
like his best friend said, man,his friend knew that his friend
was a genius. So I think it'sincredible that you make your
friend promise to you know,because you're depressed and
you're you're done with it, youmake a friend promise to to burn
everything, and then you can'tdo it. So you think about
(25:31):
betrayal, right? We only thinkabout betrayal. We always think
about betrayal in one light,right? There's a certain light,
and it's that light that alloftentimes leads to revenge
betrayal, but Max, broader gavea gift to the world by betraying
his friend. There's always adifferent way. There's always
(25:55):
another way to look at acircumstance
Chuck Shute (25:58):
that is so interesting, and it's
interesting for me to see what'spopular with people, you know
what I mean. And you probablyhave an opinion on this, because
living color, I mean, obviously,you've, you've reached success,
you've won Grammys, you'vetoured with amazing art. But
then there's, there might be apart of you that thinks you guys
should have been bigger too,right? We
Vernon Reid (26:15):
should have, would have put up, you know, and it
should have, would have put a,you know, like, could have been
bigger. Could have been morefamous, more famous, more hit
songs. So I'm talking to youright. Here's something that's
crazy, that is a pointless fact.
I was born in 1958 I was born in1958 Michael Jackson, myself.
Michael Jackson, Prince andSharon Stone were all born in
(26:40):
1958 now the world will neverforget Michael Jackson ever,
ever Right. They'll never forgetPrince, ever, not possible now
in time, and I hope it's not. Ihope it's no time soon. You
(27:03):
know, I'm, I'm not the mostfamous dude to ever pick up the
guitar, but the thing is, we'retalking I'm, I'm here for
whatever reason. Was born thesame year as those dudes, and
you gotta ask yourself, well,what would you rather be? Would
(27:26):
you rather be incredibly famousand rich? But here's the thing,
you're gonna you're gonna diebefore your 60th birthday,
right? Somebody comes to tellyou, says you're going to be the
most famous, incredible. Yourwriting is going to you're going
to be Wow. They're going to,they tell you, at 40 you're
going to be the you're going toall the cars, you're going to
(27:49):
have the all the things. Here'sthe problem, though, you're
going to, you know, you're goingto have everything the world is
coming to your doorstep. Thething is, you're go, you have to
leave at 59 they tell you thatat 40 or you can go with behind,
behind door number two. Doornumber one, you get to be the
ultimate. You get to be theGrand Poobah of everything. 59
(28:12):
you're out on door number two.
You don't get to be all thatfame. You get a little
something. You're not going tobe, that you're not going to be,
but we don't know when yourexpiration date is. You're going
to keep with it, right? I don'tknow what's behind door number
(28:42):
three, either. And I say, youknow what i i I'm happy with all
my you know, of course, I havemy moments, but you know, my
daughter graduated college inMay, and you know Michael didn't
get to see his daughter graduatecollege. Prince didn't get the
(29:04):
grad Prince, you know.
Unfortunately, he should have,he should have had a harem and
had a bunch of kids, you know,but I saw my daughter get her
diploma. I wouldn't tradeanything that they had for that,
Chuck Shute (29:24):
wow, yeah. I mean, you wonder, too, like that, even
the time that they were here,were they happy? Because it
seems like, if you dive into it,they may have been suffering. I
know prince, I think he was inextreme pain. That's
Vernon Reid (29:37):
why, yeah, yeah, it was extreme pain. And, you know,
then there's, apparently,there's some religious issue
with him getting a bloodtransfusion and all of those
things. Anyway, let's let me onemore question about the album.
Then I think I have to go,
Chuck Shute (29:57):
Yeah, okay, no, I hear one more question. You.
Gosh, let's see what. There's somany great What about the song?
Let's see. We talked about dyingto live. Whoa. What was the
second single, beautifulbastard, that all the I think
that that might be my favoritesolo. How do you how do you get
(30:18):
into that mood to do that and Ifeel the emotion. How do you get
into mode?
Vernon Reid (30:23):
Well, you know, it was so funny because part of it
was playing the melody. There'sa little bit of the melody in
the in the solo, and then, youknow, I had a placeholder solo
for a while, and didn't like itat all, and and I vowed that I
was going to, that I was gonnachange it. And the song is so
(30:49):
it's subtle. It's very much in aquite a classic doomed it's a
kind of doomed love song, andit's about duplicity. It's about
passion. It's about what happenswhen someone who's wholly
(31:11):
unsuitable, you can't get awayfrom who they are. You can't get
away from it like the firstlines, beautiful bastard, am I
your slave this time, or am Iyour master? Who am who? What
are we doing today? What is it?
You know, I start to run faster,right? I'm I've got to, I've got
to leave you alone. But think ofyour face, and I'm frozen in
(31:33):
place. And it's, it's right,it's very romantic, but it's not
at all happy. It's very youknow, it's, it's, it's, it's
about recognizing, it'srecognizing that there are
people you should never meet.
There really are. There arepeople. There's whoever you're,
(31:56):
whatever gender you're attractedto, but there's a woman that
will have you behind the wheelof the getaway car like I
absolutely believe it. Therethere are people. There are
people that are fabulous to meetyou're destined to meet. And
they're people. And I'm not, youknow, and I'm not, I'm not
(32:17):
talking about the hardcore, thehorrible. There are people you
should never meet at that bar.
You should never Your eyesshould never meet, because when
that happens, all bets are off.
Chuck Shute (32:41):
And I think we've all had a girl like that in our
oh, oh. I
Vernon Reid (32:45):
absolutely had, oh, I actually had a particular I
had a particular woman in mindwhen I wrote the song. And it
was not good, fabulous, notgood. And unfortunately, it
(33:05):
didn't end the way the songends, you know, but it was it,
you know. I can honestly saymeeting my second wife was the
only way I broke the spell. Oh,
Chuck Shute (33:22):
that's amazing.
Well, and you had got a greatsong out of it. The whole album
is great. It's going to be outin October, I believe. And
there's two right now. Yeah, twosongs are out now that people
can listen, follow you on socialmedia and Spotify and all that
stuff, or however they listen.
Yep,
Vernon Reid (33:37):
burnt. 22 on Instagram, on on Twitter, I
refuse to call it x, on bluesky, on threads, pretty read, on
Facebook. And thank you so much.
Yeah,
Chuck Shute (33:52):
thank you so much.
I can't wait to and you won't betouring solo music, just but
with living color.
Vernon Reid (33:58):
I'm gonna do like individual shows when I can know
I have a show at the blue noteon the 24th of September. But
you know, of course, my focus isliving color. So anytime I can
do something with the Hulutelemetry project, I I'm happy.
I'm look forward to it. But myfocus is Living Color, first and
(34:20):
foremost,
Chuck Shute (34:21):
awesome. Well, thank you so much for doing
this. I appreciate it and have agood rest of your
Vernon Reid (34:25):
day. Hey, man, have a great weekend. All right. You
Chuck Shute (34:27):
too, bye bye,
THEME SONG (34:30):
bye, bye.
Unknown (34:40):
You.
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