Tracii Guns Opens Up About L.A. Guns Past & Present, GnR, Skid Row and More!

Episode Transcript
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THEME SONG (00:05):
Heavy stars, rock and rolling through the cool
guitars. Chucks got thequestions, digging so sharp,
peeling back layers, head in theheart.

Chuck Shute (00:20):
Hey, Chuck, hey, Tracy, this is amazing. Look,
took six years to get you on myshow. Here I am. Yeah, there you
are. No, it's funny because,like, I had ace on a couple
times, and I was there wassomebody, I won't call him out,
but there was somebody who gotmad at you for, like, not doing
their show. And I was tellingace, I was like, Dude, you just

(00:41):
got to be patient. Like, andsure enough, I said, Well, I
said, One day Tracy is going todo my show. Just watch and here
you are.

Tracii Guns (00:48):
I love it. Yeah, it's, you know, the internet
world brings us a little tooclose to each other sometimes.
Yeah, no,

for sure, you also so your friends with my buddy
adika. You played with him, witha, well, I think he was in LA
guns for like a minute, and thenyou

guys with Gilby, yeah, that's right, yeah,

that was an interesting because it was you
him, Gilby, and then Eric Singerfrom Kiss, I'm like, God, how
did I not know about this? Andit's almost like you guys could
have called the band somethingelse, because it was basically
like a super group,

right, right, right, yeah, yeah. And nobody
knew about us. It was awesome.
We just go out and do theselittle club gigs and stuff and
have a great time.

Yeah? But there was no, there was no ego, like you
weren't saying, like, Hey, weshould call this like, Gilby and
guns. And Eric Singer is like,you know, he's not trying to get
his name on it. You guys, areyou? And Eric Singer both are
just like, Yeah, that's fine.
I'll just be in Gilby Clark'sband.

We got to go play a bunch of great music and get
paid 100 bucks tonight. It wasfun. Yeah, that's

cool. You've had so many, like, amazing gigs and
stories like that.

I like to play the guitar, yeah, just boils down to
that, you know, it's my it's mybest friend, you know,

right? But sometimes you, you say, you
take, you take a break, like,you kind of get burned out or
whatever, and

not for very long.
But, yeah, I mean, sometimeswhen I'm home, like after a tour
or something like that, where Iwon't even pick up the guitar
for a couple weeks and then, butit always comes right back.

Yeah. Do you listen to music for fun? Because
there's some, there's so manymusicians I interview that they
go now I don't really listen tomusic. Like, I think it was Joel
hoekstro saying, like, when,even when he goes to the gym and
when he drives, it's justsilence. I'm like, That is
weird, because he said helistens to music all day, so he
wants a break from

it. Um, no, I listen to music in the
background, especially when I'mdriving. Is

it mostly older stuff, or do you listen to new
stuff, too.

I listen to old music, you know, that's really,
really my thing. And you know,most people my age, the music
they listen to now is old music,yeah. I mean, you know, I'll
acknowledge when something'sgood. But I mean, nothing
recaptures the music of, youknow, being a teenager in your
early 20s, you know? Yeah, do

you discover, like, new old music? Because, like, I
know you have this song everyonealways brings up. You say,
runaway train, right? Youdiscovered that, like, it was a
was it blind Blake, and you kindof stopped being from that

Exactly, yeah. I mean, there are some kind of
retro stuff, like the surferjets, my friend, charmese band
from Canada. They're amazing.
You know, surf band. There's aband in Denmark called Java
skull that they're probably myfavorite band. I don't, wouldn't
consider them new, but, youknow, but they have all the
right elements. And I don'tknow, Blackberry smoke, man. I

(03:58):
mean, you know that's, that's alegit band, yeah, did

you go to concerts as a fan? Or do you just, you
see enough like working on andyou see these bands, we play
with them, right?

Um, I think that if there's, like, something coming
around that I really, reallylike, I love that band, and I
know I can stand there for 7590minutes because I love the music
so much I'll go, or if someone'sdoing like a local club gig or
something like that, I'll go andhang out. I always go out and

(04:33):
support the kids that I knowthat play in LA, you know,
there's some really good oneshere. But music is a
psychological thing, you know,it's, it's a thing, and the live
experience, you know, if it'snot Van Halen or Led Zeppelin,
I'm really not that interested.
I mean, interesting.

So if you, I mean, what do you think about the
cover bands that there werethese tribute bands that, I
mean, some of the zeppelin. AndBen halen ones I've seen like,
they're pretty close to theroof. It's kind of fun to see
that, I think,

oh yeah, nerd, halen sticks out to me. When
Ralph had his version of atomicpunks, that really stuck out.
Mr. Jimmy the the Jimmy Pageguy, you know, I will go see him
any opportunity. I mean, hejust, it's scary, you know, how
zeppy they are, you know, I likethe tribute bands. I mean, I

(05:26):
even like, like, Def Leppardtribute bands, you know, it's
like, you know, they,oftentimes, the tribute bands
care more than the originalbands. So, like, the stuff
sounds really good, and theyreally play the part. And, you
know, yeah, I, I, you know, Ialways wanted to do a tribute
band that was a cross between,like, Zeppelin one, Zeppelin two
and the late yard birds, youknow, kind of like this, this

(05:50):
Jimmy Page era thing, you know,like, I always wanted to do
that, you know, you know, I'mDefinitely not against paying
tribute to musicians you love,and a lot of the bands, they
make a lot of money. Yeah, we

were in raiding the rock vault. I mean, that's kind
of a thing, right? It is that'sa tribute band.

Yeah, absolutely.
That was really fun, and I madea lot of money. It's

pretty lucrative. I saw it. I don't know if they
were there that night, but yeah,it was a good show. Yeah,

it's really good.
You know, the singers are topnotch, the musicians are top
notch, and the show is topnotch. Yeah, yeah, really
lucrative,

yeah. It's always interesting, too, to me the
bands that they sound so muchlike a band, but then they deny
it, like, I remember KingdomCome back in the day, and then
Greta Van Fleet. Like, I wentand saw Greta Van Fleet. I was
like, God, these guys sound somuch like Zeppelin, like, if
they just did one cover, theywould kill it, but they just
refused to do it right, at leastwhen I saw him. That's

a weird thing. It's kind of like, you know, when in
Bay says he doesn't know whoRichie Blackmore is, or helmet,
or a helmet said they neverheard Black Sabbath or, you
know, like, you know, thatalways strikes me as odd,
because you're celebrating thismusic, you know, I mean, when
you're when you're with yourinfluences or your inspiration

(07:13):
or your thievery, there'snothing wrong with that. There's
nothing to be ashamed of. Youknow, it's a funny position to
take. Yeah,

I mean, like, I love that, and I love that, the
two. And, you know, you're notin a tribute Ben, so you you can
pull from all your influences.
Like, I think your song, the newsong, the grinder, I feel like
that with the long breaks, to methat had, like, a zeppelin vibe.
I don't know if that was onuntil, I mean, that that's such

a zeppelin one kind of arrangement, you know, like,
like, the way that it goes upand down and it goes from slide
to, like, you know, kind of justsome rad gas guitar, and Phil's
just singing like a monsterright now. You know, that's my
favorite song.

Yeah, that was, that was a good one. I'm glad I
could bring up one that wasn'trunaway train. And, and also,
what about, tell me about thesong, hit and run, because I
wanted to say it almost kind ofsound, it had kind of like a,
like a happy, dark vibe, like,kind of something from, like the
80s, like the Smiths or the cureor something, yeah, yeah.

And you describe it perfectly. It, it is a happy and
dark song at the same time. Youknow, vibe wise, for sure,
that's Johnny song that hebrought in, and it's so good. He
brought in the music. And, youknow, as soon as I tracked him

(08:34):
and his rhythm guitars, youknow, I got to go to work, you
know, he left, you know. Andthen I'm like, okay, you know,
what am I going to do here? Sothat was like, really, like, I
love when the guys bring intunes, because, because then it
doesn't start for me, it startsfrom someone else, and then I
just get to fill in all theblanks. And kind of, you know,
what would I do to this songmentality, as opposed to, what

(08:56):
am I doing with this song?
That's how I approach my stuff.
But other people's stuff I have,I feel like I have a lot more
freedom for some reason. Butthat song is very, you know,
Rem, you know, kind of meets thecult, kind of meets, you know,
Chris Isaac, you know, it's kindof all over the place, and
that's the band's collectivefavorite song on the album. Oh,

okay, yeah, that's cool. I love that one. I mean,
they're all good, and they'reall so different. Like, this
singles, Lucky motherfucker. Imean, I don't know how anybody
couldn't like that song. It'slike, so funky and and just
catchy and, I mean, I don't knowlike if people, I don't know if,
see, I like eclectic like, Ilove appetite and I love Use
Your Illusion. So to me, I don'tknow if a die hard la guns, who

(09:39):
only like the first album orfirst Yeah, if I don't feel like
this, but I loved it,

yeah? I mean, that's the thing with La guns.
You know, you're either gonnaget what you expect or you're
gonna get the exact opposite ofwhat you expect from album to
album. Because, you know, Ican't allow myself as a writer
to do the same things over andover again. You know. I have to
eventually step outside my safezone, and, you know, do some

(10:06):
other things that I love to do.
And this is that record, youknow, this is the, you know,
we're coming up for air. It'sgenerally a happier, more up
tempo swinging air album thanthan any of our other albums.
And the grinder is probably theheaviest song, and there's not
even one bar chord on it. It'sall slide guitar, you know. So

that's cool. You said Johnny contributed a song.
Did ace contribute any songs, orany riffs or anything, or

he didn't on this one, and I'm not sure why, he
was busy doing other things. Iasked him, you know, a few
times, like, Hey man, you know,if you got anything, get it to
me, and he's like, Yeah, I will,yeah, I will. And then, you
know, Ace is busy, yeah, he's

a busy guy. And so you do, I didn't realize this,
because I heard you say this inan interview that you don't
really write the lyrics, like,very rarely. I think there was
one, a big house, la gun, sosome other bits and pieces. But
you typically just do theguitars that

I do all the music, you know, with the drummer. And
that's always how it's kind ofbeen. You know, I remember being
in my mom's house when I wasabout 17 or 18, and I had a
Tascam four track and a drummachine, and that's how I've
always written, is along with adrum machine. And then now I

(11:21):
write with a real drummer, youknow, for forever now, but,
yeah, it's just like jamming,jamming with yourself and a
drummer. You know, there'snothing best, you know. That's
why I love Jack White so much.
You know the deal with with withthe white stripes, it's like, I
don't need anybody else, no, buthe can sing. I can't sing. Yeah?

No. I love Jack White. I love his solo stuff and
the white stripes. Oh yeah, youwork with for drummers. You're
speaking of Adam Hamilton, who,producer, drummer, former Ellie
guns member, been on this show.
It's so funny, because I did aninterview with him years ago,
and it would every like coupleof months, somebody would
comment and say, I love Adam.

(12:00):
Adams the nicest guy. I waslike, wow, this guy. How is he
so belo? Like, everybody, like,no one says anything bad about
like, people like, love him.
Like, he really is one of thenicest guys. Yeah, I

mean he, he's genuinely a good person. You
know, in the core, we have funtalking shit, though.

Oh, really. Okay, yeah, yeah. Don't

think Adam and I are behind the scenes. You know,
motherfucking everybody. We'rehuman, yeah, but, but Adam is
probably the nicest person thatI know, like he, he's the one
that that that means well toeverybody, and, you know,
doesn't, doesn't, doesn't everwant to be a dick, or even, and,

(12:47):
you know, and he's got a lot ofright to be a dick, you know,
he, he goes through a lot in hisin his life, you know, and, but
he keeps it even keel. He's sotalented, and he's so funny, and
he's very inspirational for meas a writer. And we write all
this stuff together. And youknow, we did the two Sun bomb

(13:08):
records together, and the blackbird angels together. And, you
know, back in the day, we didthe Waking the Dead album
together, where he played bass,but we wrote all that stuff. So
having him as my writing partneris the greatest, you know, for
lack of a better word, thebiggest blessing in my musical

(13:29):
career, really, wow,

that's awesome to hear. Yeah, I love that. And
then yeah, for people who don'tknow, I mean, he plays the drums
in the studio, and then you haveSean doing the the live drum.

That's right, that's, our that's how we do it.

Yeah, there's a, there's a lot more bands that
are doing stuff like that now,and it seems to work out for
everybody.

Well, yeah. I mean, I think with, you know, every
especially when you're adults,you know what? I mean, everybody
kind of has their own life andtheir own separate kind of thing
away from the band, as opposedto, like, from 1984 to 1990
maybe there wasn't a day wedidn't really go without

(14:09):
playing. You know, either wewere on tour, we were in the
studio, or we were rehearsingand writing constantly together,
and that's a good way to killany relationship. It's just to
be together all the time, andthis way, you know, everybody
knows their role and has theirseparate adult life. And you

(14:33):
know, and I'm just here, justworking my ass off constantly,
you know, making sure thateverything's in place, all the
gears are aligned, and makingsure we make great records and
putting together great liveshows and, you know, crossing
the t's, dotting the i's, youknow, I didn't used to do any of
this, you know, I used to justwrite, play live and eat pizza

(14:56):
like that was my whole life for,you know, like 25 years. I. Um,
but a lot of things fell throughthe cracks, man, a lot of lot of
bad shit happen when you don'tpay attention. So now I learned
my lesson is expensive lesson.
So

you're kind of like the manager of the band and, oh
no,

we have great management. We have Tim Heine
and Brian Coleman. But yeah, Imean everything, everything goes
through me, you know. I mean Iwrite the checks, you know. I
mean, I do the budgets with our,our business manager, you know,
and that gets shared witheverybody, you know. Everybody
knows what's up all the time.
Everybody's happy. Do

you like that?
Having kind of being in control,be having it be your band,
versus being a part of a bandand having to kind of negotiate,
or just, I guess you could alsosay the third option be kind of
being like, when you're ingilberies and you're just kind
of like a hired gun, and just,Hey, it's your thing. I'm

just playing guitar. Um, I did like it. You
know when, when you know, thiskind of noticed how much stuff
had fallen through the cracksover the years. You know, it
seemed like it would be reallyboring, but now, since you know,
all my focus is on this band,then now I focus from top to

(16:19):
bottom, and what a difference itmakes. You know, when you pay
attention to your own business,

interesting. So what advice would you have for
people starting out in bands?
Because there's just so manyhorror stories of doing these
interviews of the music businessand people getting screwed over
and stuff, and just like losingroyalties and publishing and all
and all this and stealing thename of the band, and all, you
know, like, is there advice thatyou would have to younger bands?

You know, yes, there. There really is. And this
goes for any kind of artist orsomebody that creates anything,
or, you know, copyrightsomething, is be nice and be
open minded and listen to thepeople around you, but know that
you're not going to change yourmind on a decision that you've
made. You know. Don't let don'tlet people you know kind of

(17:09):
alter your perception. If youreally believe in your in your
journey and what you want to do,your vision. In a band
situation, there should alwaysbe one guy that and that guy
should be a really cool, niceguy, you know, otherwise, that
guy is going to have a lot ofproblems, you know, but, but

(17:29):
generally, you know, unless,like, let's say I was still
playing with Rob Gardner andDanny Tull and Dave Melford and
these guys that I startedplaying with when I was real
Young, you know, that would bemore of a collective kind of
vision, where, where everybodygrew up together, you know,
like, physically, mentally,musically, you grow up together.

(17:52):
Well, then that is really aspecial scenario, like, for
instance, Alex and Eddie, orVinnie Paul and dinebag. You
know, these are guys. You know,when you grow up together, you
have each other's back, andthat's just the way it is. But
when your band is not like that,where you know you have members

(18:14):
coming and going, and it's yourvision and all these things, you
got to protect yourself, and youcan't let other people take over
really important tasks andthings like that, especially if
their only vision is that, likeI love being in this band and I
want to make money, right?
Because it's not really theirband, but they love the band.

(18:38):
They love being in the band.
They love contributing to theband, but you didn't grow up
together. You didn't create thevision together. You know, they
don't really feel like they haveanything to lose because they
weren't in the band before. WhatI mean and and, you know, they
have their own, you know,motivations for doing gigs, you

(19:02):
know. And sometimes it works outgreat, and sometimes they really
sparkle and add something, andother times they snore in the
hallway of the bus, you know,eight hours a night, and it's
like you're fucking out of here,you know, snoring.

You fire somebody for snoring. Oh, absolutely,

you know, somebody's keeping the whole
crew and band up all night. Youknow, it's not necessarily that
person's fault, but it can't behad. And that's an extreme case,
right? Like, that's like a placewhere you have to make a
decision, like, wow, you know,does the benefit, you know,
outweigh this horrible lack ofsleep everybody's getting and

(19:41):
everybody's turning into a grosshuman being because of it.

Yeah, it's an extreme case, but it's happened,
yeah? So now, not just in myband, bro, for sure. So at this
point, you found a way tocoexist with Phil. It seems like
you guys are getting alonggreat. You. You've making,
arguably some of the best musicthat you guys have both made in
your career is the last fewalbums. I think. I mean, is

(20:06):
there something that you've doneyou're doing differently, or is
it just getting those otherpieces out of the band and now
you guys can coexist better?

Well, yeah, I think Phil and I like, we're talking
about growing up together. Youknow, over 30 years, we've
definitely now grown together.
You know what I mean? We'vegrown together. We've learned
together. We've lost together,you know, so many things. And by
getting rid of toxic people whoalways seem to get in between
us, we're a very, very happypartnership, a happy band. We're

(20:38):
a family, you know, and thatincludes our crew members and
our management and our agent andour business manager our label.
Everybody's the same family.
Everybody is looking in the samedirection. Wow,

that's great.
That's criteria. Because it itsounds like, I mean, it's work,
because I feel like, well, Idon't know, because, then again,
I feel like vicious circlethat's one of my favorite albums
that you guys did. And I'mguessing that you weren't
getting along good at thatpoint, but somehow you pulled
out a good record, in myopinion,

well, oddly enough, you know, we were getting along
that I was, I was in anotherband. I was in this band killing
machine that that poly doorsign, you know. So I had la
guns, and I had this otherfresh, new, shiny band that I
was putting my time into and,and that's right, that's when,

(21:34):
when, when we fired Steve Riley,you know. So we had bones in
there, and Myron grombacher wasin there, and Nikki beat our
original drummer, all in there,working with the guys to create
songs. So what had happened wasthey had finished the record,
and I hadn't played one note onit, and I heard it, and I

(21:56):
thought it was great. Yeah. Iwas like, This is fucking great,
you know? So we sent it inanyways, you know, we sent the
album in and and immediately,Davidson, our a and our guy, the
president label. He's like, Whatis this? Yeah, I lied through my
teeth. Man, like, I'm like, it'sgreat, you know, it's like, it's
like, Come on, let's know thosesongs. He's like, you're not on

(22:20):
this album, and you did notwrite any of the these songs,
and I'm like, fuck. So wethreatened to drop killing
machine if I didn't go in andwrite all, you know, bunch, big
batch new songs and play oneverything. So I did, and all
the heavy stuff that's on there,I brought in, oh, okay, like,
like, face down, because I lovethat song. No, actually, oddly
enough, I did not right, facedown. That was Mick, okay, you

(22:42):
know. But killing machine, andkilling machine was a
collaboration between me andKelly and but, like, kill that
girl who's in control, facingthe dragon, you know, I, you
know, we actually went out ofthe recording studio into a
rehearsal studio. We went intoCole studio, and it's funny

(23:03):
because JJ Blair owned Colestudio, and I didn't know that,
and he's just an amazingproducer, but we went to his
studio while we still have therecording studio locked out to
finish these five songs I hadwent back to Fourth Street
recorders, recorded them with,you know, different drummers,

(23:27):
the same drummers, didn't playon everything, and then we took
all the tapes over to Red ZoneStudios in Burbank so I could do
overdubs on All the other stuffthat was already been recorded,
because this guy, Dennis dagger,he is, he's, like, my favorite
guitar engineer, so went overthere, finished that stuff up,

(23:50):
but undeniably, you know, just,I wish somebody else would have
mixed it. I think the mix is alittle weak, but, but, yeah,
that that that as an albumpackage, you know, wow. The
tunes are great. That sun fadeaway. Mick plays this little
guitar solo on it, just it getsmy my soul every time I listen
to it. You know, cool record.
Yeah.

I love it, yeah. Do you guys ever, would you ever do
like, a deep cut from thatalbum? Or, like, do you ever
just add in other deep cutsthrough

we do killing machine live. Sometimes it'll be
like, we've already played foran hour and a half and the crowd
still has energy. And thensomebody on stage and go killing
machine like, god damn it, okay,you know, because it's like,
it's, it's the fastest,heaviest, hardest song to play.
And kind of, you know, 90minutes into a set to like, you
know, bust that outauthentically. You know, you

(24:43):
know that's the end of

the so you have a lot of songs that you could just
you you the whole band knows it.
You could just draw fromdifferent Okay, wow, yeah, we

really do. And even Sean does at this point. You
know our drummer, he's been inthe band for a long time now.
And. And you know, he'll throwout songs like, Hey, we've never
played this. Let's do it. Like,hold on, let me listen. Yeah,
okay, let's do it, you know, so,yeah, I mean, that's the
greatest part of the band is,you know, aside from Phil and I,

(25:14):
Ace and Johnny and Sean andAdam, love LA guns. And they're
familiar with all the music, andthey listen to all that music.
So, you know, we do get to throwcurve balls here and there live.
And it just adds to the, youknow, the very fun time we have.

Is there any song that you feel like, like, if you
had a magic wand, you could makethis song a bigger hit or more
popular? Is it a song that youthink that should have been
bigger, that wasn't. I

think if let you down, came out, like, I don't
know, any other time when peoplewere paying attention to rock
music, it could have been, Idon't even know, you know, as
soon as we released that duringthe pandemic, just there's two
videos. There's like a weirdvideo, and there's like a lyric
video, and the reaction we gotwas insane. And like, whoa. And

(26:07):
we all knew that there wassomething about that song,
because we released it, youknow, way ahead of the album.
You know, it was kind of thissong, you know, in a weird time,
you know, it was written inMarch of 2020, when I was stuck
in Denmark. And, you know, talkabout an email record. You know,

(26:28):
recording. It was just likegoing back from forth between me
and Adam and and Phil and MitchDavis, Phil's partner. And, you
know, I was just spending timein this little cabin on the the
west coast of Denmark in Wilson.
It's like a little resort,summer time place where my, my

(26:50):
ex's family owned this, thislittle bit of property, and they
had this little, tiny black tarcabin. And I would just bring my
recording here and there, youknow, and spend hours. And that
was the one song that was thefirst song that came out of
there, and it was so dark, yeah,it is, and people attached to it

(27:14):
in a way that I don't feel likeany of our other songs, of
connective people quite that,that way, so that, like, that's
one that's, I

feel like, yeah, I wondered. I thought, when I
heard that, I thought it shouldhave belonged in a movie, like
it sounded like it should havebeen part of the soundtrack. It
would have been the perfectsoundtrack for, like, a horror
movie or something, oh

yeah, yeah, or a villain movie, you know,
something like that. And wedon't play it live, because it's
so fucking depressing, you know.
I mean, it's like, you know, SexAction, okay, don't baby, yeah,
no, we did it a couple times,and it's like, wow, that that's,
you know, that doesn't feelnice,

yeah? I guess I get that yeah, because people come
to an LA gun show, they want to,they want to hear the fun party
songs and the fact, like, Ilike, when you play speed, I
love that song. That's fun,yeah, yeah. Like,

that's permanent in the set. We can't, not ever, not
do speed, but, but people reallyrespond well to the kind of
like, like, gone honey, over theedge, of course, you know,
that's very big, dramatic song,you know. So we have a few, but
we just try to do a couple liveand not, not bring it that far

(28:35):
down, you know. Because, youknow, we have some pretty
fucking suicidal music, youknow, we just leave it on the
records. You know, it's like,that's, that's what records are
for. You know, you get it outthere. You don't have to do it
live. Do you

have people that come up to you after the shows,
though, and say, Hey, this songreally get me, got me through a
tough time, or really resonatedwith me. And, I mean, your
emails is that, I'm assumingthat's some of those emails that
were personal emails,

yeah, yeah, yeah.
Still to this day, you know, alot of stuff came out of the
Iraq war. You know, on paper,you know, letters that we would
get from soldiers and and thethe families, the soldiers, how
their how, all the LA guns musicto that point, which was really
before, well, let's see, itwould have been, yeah, like,

(29:25):
like, right as HollywoodVampires was coming out, but,
but everything you know, from nomercy, got played by people that
you would not expect, like, allover the world. Just like this
song just gives me so muchenergy to get through these
times and stuff like that, youknow, stuff that you know. I
mean, Ballad of Jane That wasobvious, you know. But one way

(29:46):
ticket to love, you know, somany people related to that song
for different reasons, you know.
And the the saddest part of thatsong is it, it's about heroin
addiction. That was written byour former singer, you know, he
wrote those lyrics. And it'sabout a love affair with heroin,

(30:07):
you know. And, but peopleinterpret songs and lyrics the
way they want to, you know. But,yeah, so we do go there, you
know what I mean, like, youknow, we get dark. Yeah, do you
think that's

hypocritical of the media? Because whenever you hear
these, you know, the wementioned heroin addiction, I
mean, it's, it's obviously ahuge problem in the world, and
so many, especially in music,like Taylor Hawkins, I think is
one of the most recent. ChrisCornell Chester, the list goes
on and on and on right and then.
But you know, you had someanxiety, and you were dealing
with anxiety, and you dealt withit, and to your credit, you

(30:42):
didn't take heroin, you didn'ttake a pill. You could have
probably taken a Xanax, and thatprobably would have eased your
anxiety. And then they attackyou, and I'm like, Well, wait a
minute, you you're so Oh, thisis such a tragedy with Taylor
Hawkins, oh, what could we do?
Well, maybe you could not attackpeople who are trying to deal
with anxiety and not use drugs,

right, right?
There's only seven people out ofa million that attacked me, you
know, and, no, not at all. Well,that's good. I got, I got, I got
letters from, like, mentalinstitutions, psychiatrists,
psychologists, you know, thatwas the biggest story la guns
ever had. And the amount ofpeople that reached out to me,

(31:26):
supporting what I did andunderstanding what happened, was
incredible, you know. And youknow, these, these chuckle fucks
that you know, live on a farmthat have never had, you know,
what's the word? You know, amoment of friction in their life
that can't relate to therealities of the big world.

(31:50):
Those are the ones that thattalk shit, you know, and they're
the ones drinking Big Gulps thatare this big, you know, with
diabetes, going, Oh, life'sgreat, you know. And I don't
care about them, you know. Andevery human on this planet is
going through something, youknow, period, you know, I don't

(32:11):
care how shiny our Instagramaccounts are, you know, I don't
care about your Ferrari. I don'tcare about any of it. You know,
everybody's going throughsomething,

yeah, now, very well said, Yeah. I just, I deal
with that myself too. I mean, Ijust feel like, I feel like it's
not even also the media. It'sjust Yeah, it's these chuckle
fucks, these commenters onYoutube, Twitter and Instagram,
all this stuff is just like, nomatter what you put out, you
could put out the most brilliantalbum, and they're just going to
trash it, because they just getoff on trash and stuff.

Well, it's the only way they can get attention,
right? You know, they can't dosomething in a positive way with
their seven followers onFacebook and get any attention.
So let me go onto this sitecalled blabbermouth, where
there's millions of peoplelooking and let me say something
really against the grain,that'll show them, and then they

(33:05):
get their serotonin rush, like Ifelt good. You know, it's like
this addiction to, you know,watching car crashes on YouTube
or something. It's the same

thing, totally. Can you keep going? Or do you have
to jet for that? No,

no, we're good.
We're good. You're the last oneof the day. We can just, okay,
cool, yeah, we can do whateveryou want. Okay, yeah,

cuz I, well, I had Karabi on yesterday, and they
told me it's a hard out. Andthen he said, Oh, we talked for
like, two and a half hours. Iwas like, Dude, this is, this
is, this is a lot of fun, but,yeah, you guys did a project
together. And he was telling methat because I was asking about
the songwriting thing, they'relike, oh, they said they didn't
want to write with you. And thenhe said, No, I talked to Tracy,
and Tracy said, No, I didn'thave a problem writing with him.

(33:48):
So was it just Nikki that didn'twant to write with him, or was
it a miscommunication, like themessage got construed with that
one?

Yeah, John thinks a lot about himself. Nobody
thought any way about writingwith John. It was like, you have
something cool. Let's hear,yeah. I mean, I don't know. It
was a band, you know? And thenJohn left. It was very
eventless. It wasn't, you know,I think I don't know. I just

(34:27):
don't know. Okay,

yeah, so, you know, but you never were like, No, I
don't want to write with like,it's like, yeah, you would. It
was probably a thing where maybeyou didn't like something that
he did and then and then justconstrued that, okay, yeah.
Maybe

because even, you know, Nikki didn't want to have
anything to do with him. I mean,John sued motley crew and won,
you know. So like Nikki didn'twant to have anything to do with
Karabi, you know. But we were ontour when Nikki and I were
putting the band together, andJohn every day. Hey, talk to
six. Talk to six. Did you talkto six? Excuse. Like, yeah,

(35:01):
dude, he doesn't want to do it.
All right the next day, samething. It's like, all right,
dude, whatever. He turned me on.
Robbie turned me on to clownrecords, which is the rehearsal
studio and recording studiowhere we loaded into wrote the
music and recorded there withthis guy, Steve o Bruno, great

(35:22):
engineer, great producer, andwe're in there for three days.
And the next thing you know,Karabi is, like, around the
hallways, like, because he wasfriends with that. Steve o
Bruno, yeah. And like, third dayin Nikki's, like, This is really
awkward dude. And I'm like, whathe goes, Karabi, just like in

(35:46):
the hallways, like, what's hedoing? I'm like, well, he wants
to be in the band, you know. AndNikki, finally he goes. He goes,
if it just makes life easier,just go tell him to come in
here, you know. And come in and,you know, everybody was nice to
him, and Nikki was nice to him,and we got him equipment, and,

(36:09):
you know, and then he decides,at some point he's he wants to
be a truck driver. So, you know,I talked Nikki into giving him
six grand out of our accounts,and so you got a truck driving
to school. He didn't even becomea truck driver. Like, just
scrambled eggs. Man, just likescrambled eggs, like, you know,

(36:30):
whatever. Man, wow. Okay,

Unknown (36:32):
I never heard this side of the story. This is wild,

of course not, because it's and the only reason
I bring it up is when peoplejust say fucking asinine, stupid
shit. It's like we would nothave any problems with anybody
in any band situation withsomebody bringing in music to
work on, like it's just anabsurd thing to say, you know.

(36:56):
So, you know, good luck, dude.
I'll be happy. Yeah,

no, it's like, you just have this, you seem like
you have a really good attitudewith a lot of things like this,
like, just say Levy, like you'renot really bitter. You just
you're kind of like, I'm gonnado my thing and I'm moving on.
That's what people don't

understand. You know, like Axl Rose questions,
right? They come up constantlybecause those grab headlines.

Unknown (37:22):
Sure, sure. I got some Axl Rose questions. Yeah,

I love Axl Rose. We created, arguably one of the
greatest rock and roll bands ofall time, right? We had a
personal issue at one point inour life that prevented me from
carrying on in the band. That'sthe whole story, right? You
know, Do I regret anything? No,that's like the proudest moment

(37:48):
of my life is every fucking GunsN Roses t shirt has my name on
it, you know? Oh, I regret that.
What a bummer, man. You know, soso people really take things out
of context. Like, like, maybe,maybe Tracy guns is a dick. You
know, let's just, let's just,like, be neutral about Tracy

(38:09):
guns is a dick, okay? And like,like, Do you need a fucking
tissue paper? You know? Like,how can I help you feel better
about, you know, the the coolstuff I'm doing for people, and
creating music that people love,playing live, selling, you know,
equipment and products for othercompanies, and enriching their

(38:33):
life and my life, you know. Sothe only time I really say
anything, you know, Dick ish isit's a response to somebody,
somebody's narcissistic bubblethat they live in that infringes
on me, or somebody like Nikki,or somebody like Phil or

(38:56):
Somebody like Ricky rocket, or,you know, all these brilliant
people that I've worked with.
You know, who cares if Nikki sixand I are friends anymore? It
doesn't affect your life. Thething that affected your life is
the music we made together andthe music that I made on my own
and Motley fruit. That's allthat that affects your life. You

(39:20):
know what I mean. So peoplewrite their own movies in their
head, and they live them, andall these details are what they
add to their movie. And there'sjust like zero reality behind
any of it that affects theirlife in any way. You know, it's

(39:40):
it's wild. So if I have a goodattitude, it's just that I'm
very grateful that, you know, at59 years old, you know, I get to
make an album called leopardskin like I was 15 years old.
People are going to buy it.
We're going to go tour behindit. We're going to have a great
time. And that's what this isabout to. Me and everybody, and
everybody's, you know, you know,tampon moments, you know, go

(40:03):
have your fucking tampon moment.
I'll wipe your ass for you. I'llbe nice. I'll loan you a guitar
again that you can sell, youknow, because that's the person
I am. Does it piss me off. Yeah,it pisses me off to the point
of, like, I don't want to knowyou anymore, but it doesn't

(40:26):
really affect my life in anegative way.

Yeah, that's really profound. I love this kind of I
love getting, like, the insideof your brain. I think you're a
fascinating guy. Like, what Iwas in. You look at you were in
Guns and Roses, but you're not,like, I've watched several
interviews, and you've told thestory and all this stuff, and
you're not bitter about it. Butthen you look at a guy like Dave
Mustaine, who was in Metallica,and he's in Megadeth. Megadeth

(40:52):
arguably bigger band than LAguns, but it still seems like
he's bitter about not being inMetallica. Like, why? What do
you think you have advice forhim? Or, like, have you guys
ever talked about that? BecauseI just feel like you could help
him. I I don't know. I guess Ijust worry about people, and I'm
just maybe that I'm being tooknown now. I'm being like the
person, people that you'retalking about that I should just
shut the fuck up and listen tomusic. But

no, I think, you know, in a way, must stand. The
only time I've ever hung out waswith Mustang. We smoked a joint
in a laundry room at Nam.

Unknown (41:24):
What fucking awesome story. Yeah, and

he was, he was really nice, you know, he was
really cool. That's the onlyencounter I've ever had with
him. But I, but I see the thingshe says, you know about, about
Metallica, and, you know, Iguess that's how he feels. You
know what? I mean, it's like hewouldn't say it if he didn't
feel that way. He wouldn't sayit if he didn't feel like he was

(41:48):
discarded in a way, kind oflike, you know, when somebody
breaks up with you and theyreplace you with another human,
you know, you're just like, hey,you know you're a horrible
person for doing that, you know?
So, I mean, maybe it comes fromthat kind of place. You know,
Dave is certainly Dave, you knowwhat I mean. Dave definitely has
a strong personality, and he'snot afraid to say what's on his

(42:10):
mind, but, but he's a big guy,you know, Mustaine is a big guy,
you know. So maybe his gripesare legitimate. Yeah, I don't
know.

It's interesting, just because, like, Yeah, I
mean, you look at where you guysboth win, and it's like you both
did your own things, and you'relike, really happy with yours,
and mustaines, like I said, hismega is huge. I love Megadeth.
And it's like he still seems tohave this, like, bitterness.
It's kind of interesting. I

I'm not sure, but did they fire him?

Oh yeah, yeah, well, you quit and he but, I
mean, he was, like, a, he was adrunken like, he was a mess,
right? So it's like, it'sprobably good thing, although I
don't think that motivated himto get clean. But I think maybe
later, looking back, that mighthave been a motivation to clean
up and and he probably, I thinkhe just feels shame or guilt
about that or whatever. I don'tknow. I mean, maybe

he's legitimately angry with himself and doesn't,
yeah, yeah, that's verypossible. I

love just playing pop psychologists with a lot of
this stuff. Just like it's all

psychology, it's all psychology. This whole art
psychology, you know, visualart. I have pictures of my kids
in front of me, right? And mygirlfriend, and it's like,
psychologically, it's like, youknow, so like, any stimulation
in your brain to psychologicaland music is certainly

(43:37):
psychological,

yeah, girlfriends, guys, you've dated some of the
most beautiful women, is it? Doyou have to, like, actually,
I've never been in a band likeyou have when you're in a band
of like, you just not even haveto try do women just come to you
and then you just,

how does it work?
No, okay. I mean, there's acertain caliber, you know,
there's groupies. You know,groupies are a thing, and
they're awesome. But the womenI've had five, I've had six
girlfriends my my whole life,you know. And you know, the old
blues guys would always say,only go with women that like

(44:16):
you. You know, don't chase awoman down that doesn't like
you. The only you're the onlyone doing the liking, right?
Because, you know, that's kindof sets you up for disaster. So
I knew that very young, and Ijust kind of have ended up in
spots with my six girlfriendswhere it just all happened, you

(44:41):
know, wasn't, wasn't, not all.
You know, five of them obviouslydidn't work out, you know. I
mean, one of them was for 27years, you know, a few were for
like, three years. And mostrecently, I had a really good
six month relationship, andI've. And my girlfriend now for
a year and a half. But they arebeautiful, all of them, you

(45:05):
know, I can't, I can't denythey're all super special women,
you know? I mean, yeah, they alllook great but, but each one of
them really powerful. What's theword? You know, sense of
independence and and you know,well being, and, you know,

(45:32):
fighting to get the right thingsdone in their life. And that's
always been the appealing thingto me. You know, is that you
know a woman that works hardand, you know, is on the right
side of history. Number one, youknow all these things. And you
know, Freud would say, you knowall your your lovers are your

(45:55):
mom or dad, you know, kind of ina way. So, you know, my mom's
beautiful, you know. So it'slike, maybe that's just the way
it worked out. Yeah, wasn't

your mom a model?
But it's interesting too,because I heard you talking
about how your mom was, was yourmom or dad, or both of them were
into drugs and stuff, and sothat's why you think sometimes
you're kind of drawn to more ofthese, like, what do you call
like, broken people? Oh, yeah,because they're more
interesting. But then you say alot of the friendships and badly
because drug addicts orwhatever, because of

it. Well, I think that the drug addiction is only,
you know, the the symptom, youknow. I mean, it's not that drug
addicts or anything like that,but they're, but they're people
that somewhere along the way,just kind of, they're great
people, but people get broken,you know, who knows why in every

(46:48):
instance. But those are thepeople I'm most attracted to,
you know, and those are thepeople that come to me, and
those are the things that getrevealed down the road a little
ways, you know, becauseeverybody comes with a smile on
their best behavior, and, youknow, they want what they want,

(47:12):
and I'm available. And it'salways such a learning
experience. You know, whetherit's Paul black or my ex wife,
or Axel rose or my oldest kid'smom, out of everything I've just
learned about people, those areall intense relationships, very,

(47:36):
very intense and at times toxic.
For sure. You know, that's justthe way it is. You know, people
pretend that, that you knowyou've done everything right in
your life, every step of theway, and that you know you don't
deserve someone to to tell youoff or be in an argument with

(47:56):
you. Well, that's, that's prettyarrogant, you know. So, you
know, I feel like, you know,being the master of many
relationships, whether it beband members, bands, you know,
women, children, grandparents,you know, like I, you know, I
love all of them, you know, do Italk to all of them now? No, you

(48:22):
know. But that doesn't mean Idon't love them. If you love
somebody once, you certainlyalways have some sort of love
for them.

Yeah, that's how I feel about like exes or even
friendships or family members,or how to fly on like I still, I
want what's best for you, and Iwant you to be happy, but you I
can't be in your life. And like,this is just, this is too much
on me, right? Like, I lovemyself too. I have to protect
myself a little bit, right?
That's,

that's absolutely right. And it's great, because I
know anytime somebody like, kindof talks sideways about me, you
know that I'm close to I justgo, oh, they love me. Because
it's like, there's no reason tosay something silly about
somebody unless you want theirattention. Is there? Yeah,

good point. Yeah, very true. I just have a guy
like Adam Hamilton. I'm like,Does anyone ever say anything
bad about this guy? Because,like, like, I said, it's got all
these comments how he's so nice.
I'm like, I want to be like,Adam, how do I do that?

I could tell you, but you don't want to know.
Okay.

What else can we talk about? Oh, yeah. So now my
only thing with guns and Rose, Iwas gonna ask you is just like,
I know that. I'm not gonna makeyou retell the origin story.
People can Google that. It isreally fascinating. But did you
ever like run into them afterthat? Did you ever like see them
in the scene, like in the 80s,like, did you guys go to parties
or, I mean, I'm I'm assuming itdidn't. It's not like you guys

(49:52):
had such a huge falling out thatyou wouldn't be cordial to one
another.

Yeah. No, no, no, no. We were fine. I mean, I
haven't. Seen the any of thoseguys multiple times. You know,
I've seen Axel a couple times.
And, of course, it's always beenchords. As a matter of fact,
right after I left and we gotsigned, and they were doing
their record, Axel called me andsaid, Hey, I heard you guys got
signed. And I'm like, yeah.

(50:18):
Finally, you know, he's like,fuck. And he was in the in the
studio with Alice Cooper,recording under my wheels, and
he had me come down there. And Ido have the last time we really
hung out, hung out, but that wasmonths after, you know, I had
left Guns and Roses, you know.
And then I don't think I'vereally seen him since then, but
I've seen slash, I've jammedwith slash. I've only seen Izzy

(50:39):
a couple times because Izzy, helikes to just be gone, and I've
had some great conversationswith Duff. But no, we're not
friends in an intimate wayanymore, you know, I mean, and
it's been fun there, I don'tknow, 35 years now, or something
crazy, 40 years? Yeah, so, so,you know, but I got nothing for

(51:04):
love, but love for those guys,yeah, you know, they've had
their own struggles, man. JesusChrist. What do you mean? I mean
with addiction and yeah, youknow, being in hospital, you
know, band falling apart, youknow. I mean, just the fact that
Izzy laughs is kind ofheartbreaking, yeah. I mean,

(51:25):
they've been through their ownthings, you know. I mean, I
think, you know, from theoutside looking in, you know,
people go, oh, all these guyshave all this success and make
all this money and do all thesethings. And, you know, they must
be the happiest people in theworld. And, yeah, I mean, to
some degree, you know, everybodyappreciates the accolades of

(51:45):
their work, but everybody'sstill just a human it's like
everybody's got problems.

Yeah, absolutely.
Well, then it's, I would thinkthe hardest thing about being
successful, whether you'retalking about guns and roses or,
you know, band like Tortor, oryourself, like any sort of like,
you know, in a band, somethinglike that. Like, it's hard to
know who to trust, like, who'sreally in this for your best
interests and because they likeyou and they want to support
you, and who's kind of the snakeand, I mean, I think, like you

(52:15):
said, you've kind of learnedthat throughout the years, like,
who's in it, who's really foryou and who's trying to take
from you? There's a lot ofpeople trying to take when
you're in a band like that,right?

Well, there's two ways to approach a band. And you
know, from guys that are lookingfor gigs, they're the guys that
really want the gig, and thenthere's the guys that really
need the gig. You never hire theguys that really need the gig.
Ever, ever, ever, ever, becauseneed means I, you know what?

(52:49):
Means I want to be part ofsomething because I love it, you
know? So somebody comes to youand you're banner, man, I need
this gig so bad, please. It'slike, sorry, I can't make you
happy, only you can make youhappy.

That's it really, yeah, because then you're kind
of, like, it's almost like acharity thing, if you're just
giving them because they need itso bad. And then that doesn't
work out for the music,

that's right? Well, it doesn't work out with with
the with the chemistry of theband members, yeah. And when you
have that, like, you know,having one shit head in the
band, wow, it's such a problem.
It's such a problem, you know.
And I think you know. And I hateto bring up Skid Row and
Sebastian, because I love allthose guys. Me too. Those love

(53:37):
the band. Love them together,love them separate. But the guys
in the band, their point of viewis that Sebastian, to them, is a
shithead. And then Sebastian'spoint of view is like, well,
they wanted a David Lee Rothtype of guy, you know? And my

(54:00):
point of view is, don't everleave that kind of fucking money
on the table. What the fuck iswrong with all of

Unknown (54:09):
you? That was not what I thought you were gonna say.
That is

seriously, like, no joke, like, I'm not making a
joke or a funny haha. They don'tever have to even see Sebastian
to go and perform live and tomake millions of dollars, not
just a million bucks, millionsof

dollars. Really, you think it was that much
they've missed out on? Couldthey still make that much?

Yes, absolutely, unequivocally, yes, yes. Skid
Row is a high impact band. Theymake pretty decent money now,
yeah, even not having a singer,they make pretty decent money
now, um, I think the excitementfor you know, good 200 New shows

(55:00):
over three years. No problem.
Man arenas for sure.

So do you think it's just really they, they
don't like Sebastian that muchthat they're willing to cost
themselves millions of dollars?
Like it's just not worth it forthem. They think

they don't like Sebastian that much when you
manifest hatred based on anexperience or 100 experiences,
right? Like they say, you know,doing the same thing the second
you know, another time, andexpecting it to be different is
the definition of insanity.
Well, then do it differently.

(55:40):
You know what I mean, it's likethen do it differently. Yeah, I
think Rachel and snake inparticular. I think it's so
wound up in their head, howmuch, how toxic that Sebastian
is, that they've amplified itover and over and over and over
and over again, and they comeout in the press. No, we don't
like that guy. It'll neverhappen. Cool man. Cool and

(56:01):
Sebastian's point of view, cool,whatever. But the same time,
it's the music business. It'snot the friends business. You're
lucky if everybody's friends andyou're still doing good
business, but you're reallylucky if you're doing amazing
business, and you don't have tobe friends, you know what I

(56:23):
mean? And that's ego. That's egojust standing like me. I'm a
little bit different because Ireally just want to play my
guitar. I don't worry aboutmoney. I haven't ever and I've
been broke, I've been poor, butI don't that's not a motivating
factor for me, you know. I mean,I get excited when we make a lot

(56:46):
of money, you know. I mean, Idon't expect it, you know, like,
whoa, we make a lot of fuckingmoney now, you know. And that's
great. It's a bonus, you know.
But, you know, if la guns was asbig as Skid Row man, you know,
there's like, fuck, you know, Igive, I give away two of my
kids, and I only have two kids.

Unknown (57:06):
This is a hot take right here. It's gonna be all
over this. This is a, this iscrazy.

But, I mean, I'm not saying anything that that
nobody knows. You know what Imean, it's, it's just that I
love all those guys. And, youknow, I mean, if the who could
do it, come on, man, you know,if, if the Eagles could do it,
you know, Guns and Roses coulddo it. Why are you two? You're

(57:34):
not cooler than them.

Yeah, so you think it'd just be a thing where
they'd each have their ownbusses and they don't talk to
each other, but they got to seeeach other. I mean, they have to
rehearse and they have to playon stage. So what like

do they I mean, they got to play on stage. Yeah,

Unknown (57:51):
rehearse. I guess they can rehearse separately. I
think, you

know, like I said at this point, you know, it's a
they are a legacy, anunbelievable legacy band from a
time that, you know, and I don'tcare how many snotty people are
on the internet talking shitabout all of them, people are
going to go see Skid Row withSebastian rock. I would pay but,

(58:20):
but my whole what's the word?
Ulterior motive for this is, yousee, if Skid Row got back
together, then la guns could go

open for Skid Row.
Oh, I see. Okay, yeah, I wouldpay to see that show. Let's add,
can we throw Warren in the mixtoo, or poison, or something
like that, anything,

man. But that's my whole reason for trying to get
back together.

You have dibs on the opening slide. You've
already called it,

oh yeah, because, you know, I've already
threatened every member said,Hey, man, when you get back
together, you don't have la gunson that bill, you know, I'm
gonna, I'm gonna put, you know,fake cheese in your omelets. You
know, I'm a heavy heater. I'm aheavy hitter. Yeah, no,

that would be a good I would also love to hear
new music. I love their lastalbum. It sounded like old
school Skid Row gangs in NewYork. I don't you heard that
one, but it was great. I thoughtit'd be interesting to hear what
they do with Sebastian. I loveSebastian's new album, too. Oh,
yeah.

Sebastian's new record is furious, man. It's
like ferocious, you know, that'sthe thing. Rachel is such a good
songwriter, you know, and hejust put Sebastian on it. And,
you know, you can't replaceSebastian Bach, I'm sorry, you
can't replace Axl Rose. Can'treplace Phil can't replace Brett
Michaels. You know, if you do,you're just changing the band.

(59:38):
And that's that was, like, onlya couple people have been real
successful at it. And it's like,obviously ACDC and Van Halen,
which is debatable, and, yeah,made in AC, DC, them, I mean,
but the stones certainly couldnot, you know, replace Jagger,
you know, Aerosmith, you know,you can't do it. You know. And,

(01:00:00):
well, you know, Sebastian rosedone a pretty good job of it. It
ain't the same, right?

Chuck Shute (01:00:10):
You guys have had some other singers in LA guns,
and he recorded with one of butone of them that I saw that I
was like, Wait, I don'tremember. This was Joe lestay
from bangtango. He was in LAguns for a brief time, or,

Tracii Guns (01:00:22):
I don't, he came to audition. He came down. He's a
real good friend of mine, and hejust couldn't, it wasn't his
thing, you know what I mean?
Like, it just wasn't his waswasn't his style. You would
think it would be his style, butit wasn't. And that's what, I
guess that's when we got ChrisVan doll. But, you know, all the
singers in my different versionsof La guns I've had were had

(01:00:46):
their pluses and minuses, butthere was never la guns like
with Phil, you know, I mean,this is like,

it's kind of like Vince Neil and Motley like, it
just Vince Neil, like, it's sucha distinct, you know, who it is
like, and I feel like, the sameway that Phil has that. Like,
when you hear Phil, you're like,Oh, this is La guns.

Yeah, it's really, in our case, it's simple, you
know what I mean? Because, youknow, you know, when we had
jizzy in the band, it was alsofantastic, but we were really
doing our own thing. It reallywasn't la guns, you know, I
mean, but Jussie did sing Philstuff real well, but it still
was an LA gun. Same with Alana.
She did her thing on the songs.

(01:01:29):
And you go watch that YouTubestuff, and she's mind blowing.
People gave zero fucks. Yeah, I

heard you say that they just didn't. That's why it
was so short lived. Becausepeople that you loved it and you
thought she sounded amazing,just wasn't like guns,

yeah? And people just weren't having it. They
didn't want you know, and that'sthe thing your audience will
tell you, you know. They willlet you know, yeah. I mean,
isn't isn't that what theinternet's for? So fans can tell
they're their favorite musiciansand actors, like, you know when
to go fuck themselves.

You know, I don't mind having opinions, like a
constructive opinions, but Ifeel like nobody has any tact on
the internet, like people don'ttalk like that to each other in
real life, like you could giveconstructive criticism and be
nice about hey. Like, I reallylike this interview, but I wish
that you would have asked thisor so. It's like, you fucking
idiot, you didn't ask him aboutthat. What are you stupid?

Strange, yeah, that's just the cross is a line.
But, you know, people are reallybrave behind any field, behind
any wall, behind any you know,protective service, you know.
And that's what you know, thecomputers is essentially a
protective service. You can bethe asshole that you've always
been on the internet.

Unknown (01:02:45):
Yeah, it is kind of fun sometimes to be the asshole,
right?

I guess when it's justifiable, yeah? But, but if
it's justifiable, are you reallybeing an asshole,

right? Oh, that's true, yeah. And I just feel like
arguing with people on theinternet is like, it's just such
a waste. Of like, I just, youjust, it can't be constructive.
I feel like with these podcasts,we can have a healthy
discussion, but people, randompeople on the internet, it just
doesn't work well. You

everybody lives in their own little shell, and you
know, they can only speak oftheir experience with certain
situations, and you know, youcan only talk about what you
know. You know, you can't talkabout somebody else's
experience, you know. Andthat's, and I have a feeling
that's where a lot of thedisconnect is with people, is
that they they can't relate toeach other's experience, you

(01:03:35):
know, like, you know, takesomebody living in Manhattan
talking about life with somebodythat lives in Wyoming, you know,
and they've only grown up inthose two places, and they don't
have any idea about what theother person's life has been
like, because they they haven'tdone it, they haven't physically

(01:03:57):
been there. So, you know, that'swhere humans disconnect is like,
you know, because a lot ofpeople in the states haven't
been to Europe or the MiddleEast or Australia or Japan or
Korea or South America. And so alot of us here think, Well, life
is just like this, everywhere,right? And it's nothing like,

(01:04:22):
yeah, you know, I mean, you goto Japan, you go to Tokyo, wow.
This feels like home. You go toLondon, Oh, this feels like
home. You know, Copenhagen, Oh,this feels like Venice Beach,
you know what I mean. But thosesocieties and those cultures are

(01:04:42):
completely different from oneanother and different from us,
you know. And so the UnitedStates is so big that we do have
big metropolises and little tinyvillages and little one street
towns, and everybody's lifeexperience is different. So. So,
you know, then you add theinternet, where everybody has

(01:05:03):
the same size platform, and it'sjust a shit show, man,

it is, right, yeah, because I don't think people,
yeah, they can't understand. Andthen also, I feel like people
are different on the internet,like there's people that are the
nicest people in real life, likeI love them. I'd hang out with
them for hours a day. I can'tlook at one Facebook post from
them, or I'll go crazy, likeit's just ridiculous.

Yeah, keep, keep your circle small friends. That
is,

that is great advice. But, yeah, I just, I
love that's one thing. I haven'tbeen around the world like you
or whatever. I mean, I've beento some places, but I doing this
podcast, talking to people fromdifferent parts of the world and
and different backgrounds, likefrom all kinds of different
backgrounds, different ages,different races, religions, all
this stuff. I find it justreally fascinating. And I think
that what I've the My conclusionis that we have much more in

(01:05:52):
common than we'd havedifferences. And I just wish
that we could realize thatsomehow, I don't know how to
make people realize that, but,yeah,

I mean, for example, you know, we play in
the south a lot, right?
And a lot of the Red Hats arefrom the south. So everybody
just assumes that they're these,like crazy stupid people. But
it's quite, you know, on thecontrary, you know, these people

(01:06:22):
are the first ones to help youout. They're the first ones to,
you know, let you in their homeand cook meals for you and and
do so, so, so, you know, eventhough you can disagree on
policies and you know what TVshow you're watching, but people
are all basically the same, youknow, it does. It does. Just

(01:06:43):
doesn't matter, because you allhave the same common needs. You
know, you're hungry, you want tolook your best, and you want to
have sex. You know, that's,that's really the basic things
of life, you know. And as youget older, you know, some of
those start getting moreimportant than others, and but,
people generally just want to becomfortable. You know what I

(01:07:06):
mean? They want to find comfort.
And a lot of people find comfortfrom making other people feel
comfortable. And that's calledSouthern hospitality. And it's
real. It exists. It's a greatthing. You know, people's hatred
for other people, that'sunjustified. That's a whole
nother story. You know, that'sthe way that people are raised.

(01:07:29):
That's the way people aretaught. You know, that's a
that's a cultural mistake, butit's in every country. It's not
exclusive to the United States,you know? I mean, I hate to
admit Denmark is ranked numberone racist country in the world.
Really did not know that, butyou would go there and you don't
see signs of racism anywhere,because the three major cities

(01:07:52):
are very diverse, veryprogressive. And you know, but
it makes me sad, you know, toknow that. So you know, you can
look at things and statisticsand this and blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, but when you're faceto face with nice people,
they're just nice people.

Yeah, no. I mean, I just, I just, I think if we just
sat, if we all turned off, maybenot turned off the internet, but
got on the internet less andtalked to each other in real
life, and sat down and hadconversations. I mean, two of my
favorite guests that I've had onthe show, Michael Sweet from
striper, Doug Pinnock fromKing's x2, completely opposite,

(01:08:33):
I'm sure, politically, you know,views, but and they said,
Michael told me that the two ofthem have sat down and and and
had long conversations aboutlife and and religion and all
that stuff. And I'm like, I lovethat. I love to hear that those
two guys can, can haveconversations together, because
I love both of them. And, youknow, it's great that they can,

(01:08:53):
if they can get past it. Whycan't we all do it?

Well, George and Michael had some interesting
conversation. You know that one,yeah. I mean, I just saying I
heard, but no, I mean, I did tworecords with Michael, and the
reason I did them was to provethat religions not going to

(01:09:18):
destroy what Michael and I dobest, and that's make metal. But
did you ever talk

to him about Did you guys ever have long
discussions or No, yeah, welaugh about it,

because he knows that I'm 100% atheist. I'm
actually a Satanist, and that'sgoing to offend a lot of people,
because they don't know whatthat is, but I don't give a
shit. But we laugh about it, youknow, because he has his thing,
I have my thing, but I don'thate him or dislike him, you

(01:09:49):
know, because he has hisbeliefs. And you know, he's very
fond of me, even though I havemy beliefs, which I don't have
any beliefs. So I. Yeah, but Ilove having dinner with them. I
love making music with them. Ilove doing these things. And I
mean, and Sun bomb is such agreat example of of none of that

(01:10:11):
shit matters,

right? Well, that's what the I think the glue that
holds the world together ismusic like that is the one thing
where everyone can cometogether, maybe sports too,
maybe other entertainment, butdefinitely music. I feel like it
brings people together from alldifferent kinds of backgrounds
and and, like you said earlier,with some of your songs, like
they have different meanings todifferent people. Yeah,

yeah. Well, I mean, everything in life has a
different meaning, you know, todifferent people. You know,
something as simple as like, akey, you know? Everybody knows
it's a key, you know, but thethree people are going to argue,
well, that's for a shed, no,that's for a front door. No,

(01:10:53):
that's definitely for a backdoor. You know what I mean?
Like, everybody makes up rightaway through their experience,
what they see, because it's beeningrained, ingrained, ingrained,
you know, and we're allbrainwashed one way or the
other, you know. I mean, youcan't deny that, you know,
that's just human nature, youknow, we got a big computer on

(01:11:14):
top of us, right? Do is inputinformation constantly, you
know? And the computer doesn'talways know what to make of that
information.

Yeah, I just love to I think that the problem is a
lot of people are always tryingto convince everybody else what
they think is right. I'm tryingto do more of Let me listen to
you and let me try to understandwhy you think the way you think,
or you feel the way you feellike and then I think you're
right. Like a lot of it comesback from how their upbringing,
if somebody in Manhattan isgoing to have a completely

(01:11:49):
different upbringing thansomeone in Wyoming, and hence,
different beliefs and andstances on things,

right, right? And the thing that gets me into
trouble on the internet is thatif somebody just lies, you know,
people lie

right now they Oh, there's a lot of that. The media
lies,

yeah, yeah. They do. They do. And you know, when
you're repeating lies over andover again, then you really
believe the lies. And that'swhat being pathological is what
you got, buddy. Oh, man, youlook good. Um, and you know,
there is ways to finding out thetruth, so, you know. But a lot

(01:12:32):
of people, because they'vealready input the lie so many
times they see the truth, andthey they reject the truth, you
know, and that's not good foranybody. That's not good for the
one believing the lie. That'sworse for the person believing
the lie, you know, and

you look foolish, yeah, and some of these lies,
they do damage. Some peoplebelieve these lies so much that
they're willing to break the lawto go to bat for the you know. I
mean, it was like, I mean, Iwon't get in specifics, but, you
know, I mean, both parties, likeJanuary 6, like people, they
believe this, like the electionis, you know, they're breaking
the law to and so, yeah, I mean,a lot of this stuff is

(01:13:11):
dangerous. That's why I say, ifpeople could just turn off the
internet. Just some of the time,I guilty of it myself. I need to
turn off the internet more, too.
But, yeah, I mean, I think thatthat could be sitting down and
talking with each other. I thinkwe would realize we have way
more in common than we haveapart. Well,

here's a personal example, and you're right. I was
talking to my my little guy'smom this morning because I was
going to organize a trip for mybig kid and my little kid. We
were going to have summervacation, drive up north of
California and see some coolshit in July. And the little

(01:13:48):
ones Danish, and his mom'sobviously Danish. And so we're
talking this morning. I go, Igo, Hey, you know, I'm thinking
about doing that. Or, you know,I want to plan this for July,
you know, so Ollie and Jagger,can, you know, spend some time
together this summer, and shepaused for a long time. And then
she goes, she goes, honestly,I'm scared to death to travel to

(01:14:11):
America right now. And I'm like,I'm like, Oh, right. And then
she told me that, you know, sheknows some stories of some
people getting stuck, you know,in customs here, and being kind
of carted away, not being givenan opportunity to call a lawyer
or to call anybody you know. Sothere's a Travel Warning from

(01:14:32):
Denmark to here, because it'stoo dangerous or mysterious, and
you don't know who they're goingto pick. You know people coming
through the border, and that's afact like that's affecting my
family right now. You know,there's no part of that that I

(01:14:53):
could have made up, you knowwhat I mean? So, you know, it's
now. Also affecting my life. Thelies Absolutely,

yeah. I mean, that's interesting. Yeah, it
does seem like there's somecloudiness around, around the
immigration stuff right now, andwhat's happened, I don't know
that's kind of that is a littlebit concerning, though, for
sure, especially for someonethat needs to travel. I mean, I
think we go to, I'm in Arizona,we, we used to go to Rocky Point
Mexico. It's just across that'sso awesome. But saying, like,

(01:15:27):
You got to get a special becauseI have a passport, but there's
like, a, like, a some sort of IDor something that we need to
get, like, what? Like, this wasalways

we you can't go to Mexico with just a passport
anymore. You have to fill outpaperwork now. That's that's the
relative. That's what I heard.
Six months, seven months, yeah,you know, because of all the the
shit that we've been screaming,you know, they want to know
who's coming into there.

(01:15:56):
Because, see, what people don'tknow is that Americans traffic
guns into Mexico. See,everybody's always focused on
fentanyl coming from Mexico. Andyes, it's definitely a problem,
and our Border Patrol has beenamazing at it. They've been

(01:16:19):
getting all the fentanyl.
They've been fighting it, butwe, but Americans, track guns
down to to Mexico, you know,firearms and but nobody here
ever talks about it, you know, Imean, so this way, with their
new background checks, who'scoming in? You know, they're
doing eye scans. They're doingeverything just like we, we do

(01:16:41):
and, you know, you and I, youknow, a year ago, could have
gotten my Volkswagen bus anddrove down to Tijuana and had a
good old time. Nobody would havegave a shit. It's not like that
anymore.

Yeah, fuck that sucks. Yeah, because I love
Rocky Point. It's so it's sonice and people and it's like,
funny, because all people arescared to go, like, that's
another thing that I feel like,is misinformation. There's so
many of my friends I can'tconvince to go to Mexico because
they're just like, No, Mexico isnot safe. I'm like, Okay, this
is Rocky Point. This is like,I'm trying to explain, like,
right, Mexico City. Rocky Pointis, like, a small town. It's

(01:17:18):
like, if it'd be like, going to,you know, Wyoming, like, a small
town in Wyoming, it's totallysafe. It's like, amazing, safer
than Phoenix, I think,

right? Oh, I'm sure it is.

The people down there are so kind and and
grateful, like, it's just such ayou know, they love when you go
into a restaurant, they're like,oh, casino, come on in. Like,
they're so happy and grateful.
You get the best service. It'slike, amazing. Oh, absolutely.

I mean, and you find that in most places, people
are like that. That's what I'msaying, is that whatever your
preconceived notion is, becauseyou heard it on the internet,
you go to any of these horribleplaces and you're going to be
greeted with open arms. Youknow, people are going people
are going to treat you reallygood until you're a dick, and

(01:18:06):
then I'll treat you really good.
You know, the internet's aproblem, and they said it was a
problem from day one. They saidit was going to be a problem,
and it is, yeah, well, just wait

till this interview comes out, like, because the
thing is, is, like, somebody wassaying something the other day
about, oh, I think it was on.
There was a clip I saw of JoeRogan saying that podcasts are
going to be the way to, youknow, to bring people together,
and it's going to dispel themisinformation all this. And I'm
like, yes, if people listen tothe full podcast, the problem is
people are only listening to ashort clip, or the headline or

(01:18:40):
and I guarantee you thisinterview there'll be some
headline and no offensive loudmouth. I love them. They I think
they do a great job. Theypromote music and my podcast,
but I think people should try tolisten to the full interviews as
much as they can, and they willreally get the gist of the whole
conversation and not have thingstaken out of context. Well,

I think I said it recently in a podcast where
everything's about the headline,you know, that's the that's
where the attention grab. So theheadlines everything you know,
and and for as informative asblabber mouth is, it's headlined
in a tabloid way, you know?

And I see, I understand that, and I get when
I see the headlines, like, Oh,okay. And then, and if you read
more, and if you listen tointerview, go, then you
understand it more. But see, Ithink a lot of people don't do
that, the headline, no,

no, no, it's only headline, yeah, you know, it's
the same way. That's why Twitterused to be so great, because you
could only type, like, I don'tremember what it was like,

100 characters, yeah,

yeah, you know. And it's like, so fast, right? Get
your info. Get your info. Getyour info. So now, like, I
remember in 2016 on all the newsstations, all of a sudden.
Everything was breaking news.
That's so true. Everything isbreaking since 2016 it's been

(01:20:06):
nine years, and everything isstill breaking news. And then
the sound has gotten louder whenit comes in breaking news. So if
you're if you understand thatthat that headline is created to
be the first thing in your mind,and then it should interest,

(01:20:31):
interest you enough to go readthe details. But most people
don't. You know they I saw on,oh yeah, blah, blah, blah, this.
It's like,

I've fallen for it so many times too. I've learned
now, okay, like, wait a minute,this. Let me read the details on
this. This sounds like a littlefishy. Oh, wait. And even in the
article, if you read downparagraph three, it says, like,
oh well, this is, like, this isa maybe this might happen kind
of thing or something.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's all you know. But if
everybody stepped back and, youknow, blabbermouth, whatever,
you know, podcast, whatever, andeverybody stepped back realize
how unimportant most of thisinformation is to their personal
life. You know what I mean?
Because there are some things onthe internet that are very

(01:21:23):
important to people's lives in apositive way and in a negative
way. But focusing on, you know,like, like, here metallic right
headfield comes out. Reallytalking about the issues that
he's been through. I'm suremillions of people have heard

(01:21:48):
his story, and it's helped them,you know, because he's the angry
guy, right? Like he's fuckingJames Hetfield. He comes out,
he's like, you know, coming homeoff tour, you know, I'd be
angry, I'd drink, go to themarket. Didn't even know who I
was. You know, these arepersonal, personal things that

(01:22:10):
he exposed. And that's what areal man does. A real man
exposes his his shortcomings sohe can become a better man, you
know? And that's like, I got somuch respect for that dude, and
I've known that guy for so long.

(01:22:32):
Um, think I've only had fourconversations with him in my
life, but they've all been threeof them were amazing, and one he
was drunk, and we were alone atthe scrap bar in New York City
in 91 and when he was drunk, hewas a completely different

(01:22:52):
person. Wow, you know, but I waswith him at another real
critical time backstage atDonington in 2004 we were, I was
with the brides, and I went totheir little back they had a big
backstage area, and there wasnobody back there but me and

(01:23:13):
Kurt and I guess Robert wasthere. I didn't see him, but and
James and Lars wasn't coming,but they didn't tell me, right?
Like they were acting liketrace, you know, what's up, man,
this is so rad. You're playing.
And then talking to James fromand he goes, he goes, he goes, I
don't want to cut this short,but you know, we got a little

(01:23:33):
situation right now I'm tryingto deal with. So, you know,
let's, let's talk more later.
I'm like, Oh yeah, cool. Like,that's how cool those dudes are.
Like, Lars was not coming, andhe did not come. They were
headlining Donnington. Well,

who played drums then, I don't remember this, um,

Corey Taylor. Corey Taylor, drummer, and Dave
Lombardo did most of the set.
Wow. It was great. Yeah, it'sreally cool. But you know, I
mean, these guys are settingexamples for young men, you
know, and it's much better tolead them in the right
direction. I agree. Don'tglorify heroin, you know, you

(01:24:15):
don't glorify heroin, you don'tglorify alcoholism, you don't
glorify these things you know.
You you talk about your personalexperiences with with you know,
tragic events, and what you'velearned from them, you know. And
that's how you teach young men,if you're in a position like

(01:24:37):
that, you know, be strong. Don'thide your shit, or else it'll
get worse.

Yeah, well, I think you had that conversation with
with Duff. I think I heard youtalking about that he did, yeah,
and that's he does a kickboxingnow too, because that's the
other thing I feel like peoplelike, okay, like, quit drugs,
quit alcohol. Okay, now, butnow, what do you do? Because you
get you still. Not that anxiety.

Both smoke and it's fucked.

Unknown (01:25:05):
You won't get, I mean, kill

you, but I guess, well, everybody dies or
something. But no, it's funny.
Brought up the duff thingbecause I was walking by. He was
in a I think it was Jiu Jitsu.
He was kickboxing. Yeah, Iwalked by, and I that's tough,
and this is a long time ago now,like 20 years ago. So I just
walked in, and he's like, Tracy,what the fuck man, you know,

(01:25:32):
like we hadn't seen each otherforever. And so he finished up.
He only had, like, 10 minutesleft, and he said to Kristen, he
goes, he goes, Hey, man, can Itake Tracy on? You know, we
haven't talked about it. Chris,like, yeah, see you later. And
so we get it in the car. Helights up a season kick boxing
for an hour, and we're smokingcigarettes. He goes, Yeah, it's

(01:25:53):
the whole the one thing, right?
I'm like, Yeah, but you know, hehad gone through, you know,
solid therapy and rehabilitationand all these things and
everything that that trouble hegot into was from anxiety, you
know, was, you know, theuncontrollable scenario, you
know, whatever it is. And he'sthe first guy that ever talked

(01:26:13):
to me about it, you know,because I told him, because I
knew that that's what he wentthrough. And he's like, he's
like, you know, the end of theday, it's your life. You make
your own decisions, man, youknow, don't let anybody tell you
what you have to do. You know.
You know what's right for you,and if you feel like you're
missing out on opportunities,well, seek help, you know. I

(01:26:37):
mean, that's, that's the nutsand bolts of that conversation,
you know, and you know. So, youknow, Do I regret leaving Guns
and Roses? No, because, youknow, 15 years later, I had a
conversation with Duff aboutanxiety that changed my life.
You know what? I mean? It'slike, did it

though? So wait, were you? You weren't doing
drugs and shit like because youdon't do you don't even like,
drink that much or anything.

No, no. I mean, I'm a good drinker. I can have like,
a half a margarita that I feelgreat. And I've always been that
way. You know, if I have like,two or three shots, I'm sick,
you know, I just I can't drink.
And, yeah, no, I've tried mostdrugs, you know. How could I
nodded, you know, back backthen, you know, but never got
into them, you know, but stilldealt with the artist anxiety,

(01:27:28):
yeah, yeah. I mean, I don'tknow. Thank God I'm the problem
is, I'm scared to death ofdrugs, you know what? I mean,
that's, that's a good thing.

Yeah, that is good.
Yeah, I remember when I I metDuff, when he was playing with a
slash a snake pit. When you talkabout, like, you know, people
being a role models and stuff.
And I was a young kid. I waslike, 17 or something, and I
remember it was in Seattle, andhe gave me an autograph, and his
hand was like, shaking. I mean,I saw more, and he was so fucked
up. And then to see him, youknow. Now he's writing books

(01:28:02):
like, how to be a man, and he's,he's in he's got, like, a six
pack, he's in shape, and it'slike, which stuff do I want to
be? Like, I'd rather be the duffnow, like, I think he's got to
shut together. And he's doinggreat. And I love it. I love to
see people happy and doing well.

He is doing well, you know. And, you know, he's
the type of person that you canlook at and understand what it's
like to appreciate the greatthings that you have in your
life, you know, and that's wherethere's a big turnaround for
him. Because, you know, Iremember the first day I ever
met him, you know, was at thevery first Guns N Roses

(01:28:37):
rehearsal with him. He was, hewas a friend. He lived across
the street from Izzy. Izzy toldme about him. Came in he was the
nicest guy in the world. He wasdrinking at like 10 in the
morning, but he was the nicestguy in the world and probably
the most well rounded musician Ihad ever played with at that

(01:28:58):
time, because he was in, like,some kind of cover band, and
we're in a tribute band, butlike a cover band like that
plays a multiple, you know, newwave and rock and roll and punk
rock and, you know, pop music,you know. So he's very good
musician, very smart guy. Hewas, he was the guy I drove home

(01:29:21):
with after the last Guns andRoses gig and told him that this
wasn't for me, you know what Imean. And I felt safe telling
him that, without him gettingangry, like I knew Izzy would,
but he'd be passive about it.
And then, you know, Axelobviously got angry, but he's a
really good person, man, and andwhen he went through all the

(01:29:41):
stuff and came out on the otherend, it was one of those moments
I was just like, like he did it,you know, and it's harder to do
what he did to get through thatthan almost anything else you
could go through in your life.
You. You know, I mean, he hadhis skin was peeling off his

(01:30:03):
hands. He would play with gloveson, you know, because his hands
were so screwy, you know, fromfrom vodka, you know, stuff like
that. And instead of dying, hewanted to live, and he did. And
he's, and he's, it's amazing.
Yeah,

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