What is The Church?

It's foundational on the purpose of the Church that we know who Jesus is. We explore the significance of this principle, emphasizing that the church is built on the oneness of God.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Welcome to the first episode of the Church Talk podcast where we
are going to dive in to the mostimportant question anybody could
ever ask. That is what is the church.

(00:36):
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(02:25):
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so. Very cool.
Well, we are going to talk aboutthe church today and very, very
excited about this. Really, we love the church, love

(02:46):
the Kingdom of God, and we want to, I think it's very important
for us to have a good understanding of what the church
is. So if you're going to be a part
of something, you need to know what it is that you're a part
of. So in order to do that, I want
to jump over to the Book of Matthew chapter 16, Book of

(03:09):
Matthew chapter 16, and verse #13.
And says here Jesus asked his disciples, who do people say, I,
the Son of man am? After some answers, Peter
declares, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Peter responds to this, saying, Upon this rock I will build my

(03:31):
church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.
Yes, yes. So this is the very first time
in Scripture that the word church is used.
This is it. Jesus introduces this idea to

(03:55):
his followers and he says I'm going to build my church and my
church will be a entity that thegates of hell will not be able
to prevail against. This is a pretty bold statement.

(04:15):
And so I, I, I want to know whatis this thing, this entity that
Jesus himself is building that the gates of hell will not be
able to prevail against? I want to know what it is and I
want to be a part of it. And so number one, I think it's

(04:40):
important to understand that if if Jesus, Jesus let us know that
if it's going to be his church, he is the builder of it.
He is the one who is establishing this new thing

(05:01):
called the church. So Psalms 127 and one says and
let the Lord build the house. The labor of the builders is in
vain. They labor in vain that build
it. So if Jesus isn't building it,

(05:22):
then no matter what it's called,it's really not the church.
It could be a nonprofit, it could be an institution, it
could be something that has a positive impact on the community

(05:43):
and does positive things for mankind.
But if Christ is not the center of it, it's not a church.
And so I'm not saying this to tocriticize or anything like that.
I say this in in honesty and in sincerity.

(06:03):
The church is not a human invention.
It's Christ's construction project.
This is something that Jesus Christ, God manifest in the
flesh, built himself and is still building to this day.
And so if we are going to be that and be a part of that,

(06:27):
we've got to make sure that He'sthe one building what we are a
part of, right? It's got to have the right
builder. This is, you know, referring
back to the apostles or the disciples of Jesus Christ came
expecting him to build a physical throne, Kingdom,
overthrow Rome. And this was actually what

(06:48):
Christ came to do was establish the Church.
Yes. This was his Kingdom.
Yes, it was a Kingdom of the hearts of men.
Yes. It was a spiritual Kingdom, not
a Kingdom of bricks and stone, but a Kingdom of the spirit.

(07:11):
And so the foundation of the church is a, is the most
important part of any structure is the foundation and especially
the foundation of God's church. And, and so we, we established

(07:32):
the fact that his church is a spiritual Kingdom.
His church is in US. It is not the building that we
worship together in. That's what we call it, but
that's not what it is. That's the building that the
church gathers in it, but it's not the church.
It is the gathering place. The church is what is in the

(07:54):
building. It's the people that are in the
building and the foundation of that church.
If you're going to be the church, you've got to be built
on a set of ideas, spiritual ideas that are foundational to
what it means to be a part of Christ Church.

(08:16):
And so the foundation of the Church, if Jesus is the builder,
is the revelation of who he is. The foundation of the Church,
you could say, is a revelation. It is a spiritual revelation.
And that is the revelation that Peter had received about who

(08:40):
Jesus was. Flesh and blood hath not
revealed this unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven, the
Spirit which is in heaven has revealed this unto you.
And so the Church rests on the revelation of the mighty God in
Christ. Yes.

(09:01):
Yes, Jesus as God manifest in the flesh, God Incarnate, God in
flesh, God manifested or made visible in the flesh.
That is the foundational idea and building block of the
church. Without that idea, everything

(09:24):
else about the church falls apart.
Yes, it's mission. It's it's whole mission of and I
know what we'll cover some of this, but of the lost being
saved, Jesus tackles right off and he says, except you believe
that I am he, you shall die in your sins.
Yes. It's foundational on the purpose

(09:46):
of the church that we know who Jesus is.
Yeah, well, I mean, if you'll goback and look at that verse in
your Bible, if you have a actualBible, that the word he in that
passage of Scripture is italicized, which means that it

(10:07):
was added by the translators forclarity.
But it really wasn't clarifying anything what Jesus was saying.
Unless you believe that I am. Yes.
Unless you believe that I am theI am that spoke to Moses out of
the burning Bush, you will die in your sins.
I'm not Jehovah junior. I am the God that created

(10:30):
everything that is. I created the heavens alone and
by myself. I do all things by the counsel
of my own will. So the the foundational
principle upon which God's church is built is Deuteronomy 6
and four. Here, O Israel, the Lord our God
is 1 Lord Jesus said the the 1stand greatest commandment.

(10:55):
Yes, first and greatest. What is the greatest commandment
in the law here? O Israel, the Lord our God is
one more than you need to know anything else if you're going to
be a part of His church. It's got to be built on the
revelation of the mighty God in Christ, for in Him dwells all

(11:16):
the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
I and my Father are one. If you've seen me, you've seen
the Father. And so that is, that is the
foundational doctrine teaching of the church.
If you're going to be a part of His church, you've got to

(11:38):
believe the I am. You got to believe that he's
one. You've got to believe the Shema
hero, Israel. The Lord our God is 1 if if that
is not the foundational principle that what you're
attending is built on. It might be a nonprofit, it

(12:01):
might be an institution, it might do positive things for
humanity, but it's not a church.It's not the church if it's not
built on the found foundational principle of the oneness of God.

(12:21):
I know that may be controversial, but that's where
we stand in our understanding ofwho God is and the foundation of
His church. Peter was saying thou art the
Christ, the anointed One, the Son of the living God.

(12:42):
Well, how can you say that the foundational principle of the
church was the oneness of God when Jesus is speaking to the
second person in the Godhead? Well, he wasn't speaking to the
second person in the Godhead. He was speaking to the flesh of
God. That's what that's what Son
means in the Scripture. It's not talking about a lesser

(13:05):
deity. He's talking about the flesh,
the root out of a dry ground, the part of the whole of God
that we could see. We don't have the ability to see
God. No man has seen God at any time.
What we've been able to see of Him was the flesh of God.
No man can see God and live, right?

(13:26):
And so he veiled his glory and flesh, so that we could see Him,
relate to Him, and know Him. But he never ceased to be
everywhere at the same time. So He was all God and all man,
therefore the Son of God, right?Philip had the same question
that many of you probably have had and he says show us the
Father and we'll be happy. He says show us the Father and

(13:46):
suffice us and Jesus looks and he says, have I been so long
time with you Philip? And you don't know me, you know?
Me. He that has seen me, has seen
the Father. Yeah.
Why are you asking me to show you the Father?
Yeah, it's the flesh saying thisis the image.
The Father. The Father is simply referring
to the Spirit of God that is omnipresent and has never ceased
to be omnipresent. It's everywhere at the same

(14:09):
time. Hebrews.
Calls Jesus Christ the image of the invisible God.
Yes, he's the part of the invisible that you could that we
were allowed to see. Yes.
And so of his. Glory the expressed image of his
person. I mean this there Colossians was
image of the invisible God. It's it's replete through
scripture. Yes, yes.

(14:31):
And so again, that is the foundation of the Scripture,
that the foundation of what the church is.
That is what everything else is built on.
And then there is the message ofthe church.
This is the part of the church that is the building of the
church. It's it's the studs and the roof

(14:55):
and the structure of the church,and that is that is its message.
Paul defines Christ's message, the gospel of Jesus Christ in
First Corinthians 15 one through4.
Says Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel

(15:18):
which I preached unto you, whichalso you have received, and
wherein you stand, by which alsoyou are saved, if you keep in
memory what I preached unto you,unless you have believed in
vain. We are saved by the gospel.
That for I delivered unto you, first of all, that which I also
received, how? That Christ died for our sins

(15:38):
according to the Scriptures. First, he died.
And that he was buried. And that he rose again the third
day according to the scriptures.So this is this is the gospel,
the good news. Without this news, there is no
good news. Without the gospel of Jesus
Christ, the death, burial and resurrection, there is no good

(16:01):
news. This is the building of the
church, but it's, it's more thanjust history.
It has to be applied to our lives.
It's more than just a historicalevent that happened.
We have to apply the death, burial and resurrection to our
own life. Well, how do I apply the death,

(16:24):
burial and resurrection? How do I participate in the
gospel of Jesus Christ and applyit to my own life?
Well, Peter told us how to do that by offering the gospel in
this New Testament pattern. Repent, be baptized, everyone of
you, in the name of Jesus Christfor the remission of sins, and

(16:46):
you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, that is
spiritual death, burial and resurrection.
And and I want to pull out of that is Peter is not just kind
of randomly throwing something out.
He has just preached Jesus Christ, the one you have
crucified. He's preached people to

(17:07):
conviction and they're saying wejust heard the gospel.
Now what do we do? What is our response to this
gospel? And that's what Peter preached
Peter standing up with the other11.
So all other all the other apostles corroborated this and
he preached to them. Here's your response.
Repentance, death, baptism, burial, and the infilling of the

(17:29):
Holy Ghost. Resurrection.
Yes, this is the response that agroup of sinners had to What do
we do? Right.
Well, you can take, you can takethat message and lay it over so
many things throughout Scripture, right?
And it fits, yes. So the, the types and shadows of

(17:54):
the Old Testament of, you know, you could, you could look at the
Exodus out of Egypt. There's the blood, the water,
the cloud. You could look at the Tabernacle
in the wilderness. There's the the brazen altar,
the brazen labor of water, and then the holiest of holies.

(18:16):
So you lay this death, burial and resurrection construct over
the top of all of those ideas throughout Scripture.
And there are more. It preaches the gospel.
You know, that is how the apostles preach the gospel.
They did it from the Scriptures.How Christ died according to the

(18:39):
Scriptures. Philip did that preach Jesus
from Isaiah. Yeah, they they preached from
the Old Testament scriptures, the death, burial and
resurrection message. That's where they got it from.
The Acts 238 message did not just come out of thin air for
Peter. It was outlined to him and
revealed to him by Jesus Christ through the message of the Old

(19:05):
Testament and through these these types and shadows.
So there is no other gospel message but the death burial and
resurrection the Acts 238 message.
So if, if the place where you attend is not building the

(19:26):
church based on the foundationalfundamental building blocks of
the death, burial and resurrection, Acts 238, it, it
might be a nonprofit, it might be an institution, it might do

(19:52):
positive things for humanity. It might do a lot of wonderful
things. I'm not saying it's a bad place,
but I am saying it's not a church, right?
Because this is what Christ Church was built on, right?
The death, burial and resurrection, that is the
gospel. And so you need to repent.

(20:13):
Yes. I need to repent.
We need to be baptized in Jesus name for the removal of our
sins. If we're not baptized in Jesus
name by obedience and by faith in the name, our sins are not
removed. And then we need to receive the
baptism of the Holy Ghost and let God resurrect us into

(20:34):
newness of life through the power of His Spirit.
And then God built his church. And as with anything where you
have more than, you know, two orthree people involved, you need

(20:57):
a government. And so God left in in his word,
he left a government for the church.
And so Jesus gave the church a astructure to be governed by, and
this is found in Ephesians 411 through 13.

(21:23):
Pull that up. Ephesians 4.
Yes, Ephesians 411 through 13. All right, Ephesians 4 says he
gave some apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and
some pastors and teachers, for the perfecting of the Saints,
for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of
Christ, till we all come in the unity of the faith, and to the

(21:46):
knowledge of the Son of God. Unto a perfect man, unto the
measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.
And so until we all come into perfect unity and the perfect
knowledge of of Christ, we need government, right?
And that government that Christ gave his Church is called the

(22:09):
Fivefold ministry. Why is the fivefold ministry put
in place? It's for the perfecting of the
Saints. Interesting here.
It doesn't say that it is for the perfecting of the center
right. I don't graduate from needing

(22:31):
the fivefold ministry in my lifebecause I've been in church 20
years. The until I come into perfect
unity and into perfect knowledgeof the Church, I need the
fivefold ministry. And so this is what Christ left

(22:57):
us in order to perfect his church.
And he gave I think I think it'simportant for us to to discuss
this. But the the ministry has been so
Hanford and watered down by a society that doesn't that

(23:22):
doesn't want to submit to any type of authority, right, right.
And but the if you look through Scripture, Paul did not talk to
Timothy about a weakened and anemic ministry.
No, no, he. He didn't talk about a a

(23:43):
ministry where the words that they spoke and the message that
they preached was diluted by a church that was lackadaisical
and easily offended and thin skinned.
He talked about a, a ministry that was authoritative.

(24:13):
It doesn't mean that they were mean and hateful.
And if, if, if the ministry is those things and they're not
godly, but the ministry has to have the ability to preach with

(24:33):
authority. And so Paul tells Timothy and
second Timothy 4, he says preachthe word, be in season, instant
in season, out of season. He says, reprove, rebuke and
exhort. So we have arrived at a a day in

(24:56):
our society where, how, how manychurches do you know that that
2/3 of what comes from the pulpit is negative in
connotation? And I wouldn't necessarily say
that it's a negative thing, but let me let me rephrase that.

(25:17):
How many churches do you know that what is coming from the
pulpit is reprove or rebuke? Most of what is coming from and
even if you go back to if you goback to the Commission of
Jeremiah, it was and I don't have this on my notes, but it's,

(25:37):
it was I'm I'm calling you to totear down to root out to pluck
up 2/3 of his and then at the end it was to build up and to
plant. But 2/3 of his Commission was
tearing down and pulling down and reproof and rebuke and

(26:01):
correction instruction with all long-suffering, I might add, but
that's that is a missing elementof too many institutions that
are called churches. They have tied that the they

(26:24):
have muffled the mouth, muzzled the mouth of the ox that treads
out the corn. They, they, they will not allow
the man of God to reprove or rebuke.
They want him to do all the exhortation that he wants to do.
Come in, encourage me, make me feel good about myself and.

(26:47):
And there's an imbalance there, obviously, when we look at it.
But I think looking just face value at what everybody expects
the man of God to do is just, oh, he's just going to get up
there and always encourage me. And there's room for that.
I think that's a good thing. Absolutely, but.
If we look to scripture about most of encouragement, it always

(27:10):
talks about the brethren encouraging one another.
The majority of your encouragement should come from
within the body. Not just I come so I can hear
the preacher encourage me, but there should be a brother
sitting on the Pew next to you that is encouraging you that
you're encouraging them. Yeah, yeah.
Sometimes I need to be encouraged that I can take this
rebuke with grace, you know, andI think that reproving and

(27:36):
rebuking can be done in a positive.
Way done kindly and. I think if it's done right, it
definitely works better, but I mean, you take the you take the
word reprove here in the Greek that it literally means to
convict or to tell faults. Wow.

(27:58):
So I mean, how do you, I mean, it can be done right, but I
don't care how much positivity you shroud telling someone their
faults in, it's still tough. It's hard to hear.
It's hard to hear now. I thought at one time I, I kind

(28:22):
of felt like reproving and rebuking was like one in the
same. It was just, he was kind of
being redundant. But rebuking is a different word
in the Greek it, it means to forbid.
And you, you want to get people upset, tell them that your
preacher has the right to forbidthings, right.

(28:45):
And, you know, I'm not going to get off into all that, but my
pastor at times has forbidden meto do certain things or to go
certain places. And a lot of times in the
moment, at the time, I did not understand why.

(29:07):
And sometimes there's some of the things I still don't
understand why. But I've lived long enough now
to understand that he protected me from enough things.
I don't have to understand everytime he forbids me to trust him
right. And now I don't.

(29:28):
I don't want to get in in in trouble here.
If he wants to preach this here sometime, I'm I'm sure it will
be just fine. But he told me a story and we're
probably taking too much time onthis part of it.
But he's he was Bishop Copeland,this my pastor.
He was in Europe and he went to the place where I don't have

(29:52):
this written down, but he went to the place where the Titanic's
are initially sailed from from England and it sailed around a
cob but I can't remember where the first port was.
Anyway, they'll let us know in the comments, but.
Just say the wrong thing and they will let us know.
And, and the, there was a, therewas a Jesuit priest who had a

(30:21):
very wealthy uncle who wanted his nephew to be on this
historic voyage. But he only, he paid for him a
first class ticket and bought him the most state-of-the-art
camera that money could buy at the time.

(30:41):
Put him on the ship, first class, the best of the best
experience on the boat. And then, but he only bought him
for the first little leg around the cob.
And then he was supposed to get off before they sailed to New
York. Well, anyway, so he sails around
there. Well, he's wanting really bad to

(31:02):
go to New York. He said this boat has been so
amazing that he, he's, he wants to sail around to New York.
So he sends a telegram to his uncle and says, will you pay for
me to go the rest of the journey?
And he's like, sure. Well, before he goes ahead and
buys the ticket, he sends a telegram to his Bishop and asks

(31:22):
his opinion. Wow.
So this Jesuit priest ask his Bishop's opinion about whether
he should sell the rest of the way to New York.
His Bishop sends him a four wordtelegram back and it's no
explanation, just 4 words. Don't get on that boat or get

(31:47):
off that boat is what he said and that was the other one was 5
words. He says counting is not my
strong point. Now he says get off that boat.
Wow. It's all he says.
Well, this young Jesuit priest had enough respect for his

(32:08):
Bishop that he didn't question him.
He didn't rebel against him. He just didn't get back on the
boat. Wow.
And we know the story. The ship went down well, and so
his life was saved because he was willing to willing to be

(32:28):
forbidden to be rebuked with no explanation.
Wow. And I mentioned that he had this
camera. The only photographs that you
have ever seen from the Titanic came from his camera.

(32:50):
Everything else was lost becauseit went down with the boat.
And so anyway, I said all that to say, God has a government for
his church, and part of that government is to reprove or you
can exhort, and that's not goingon in the church that you're
attending. It might be a nonprofit, it

(33:15):
might be an institution, it might be doing positive things
for humanity, but it's probably not a church.
And so the church in 2nd Corinthians 617 is commanded to
come out from the world and be separate, saith the Lord.

(33:37):
And touch not the unclean thing,and he will receive us, and
we'll be a father unto us, and ye shall be my sons and
daughters, saith the Lord. So a prerequisite to being a son
and daughter of God as it being separate.
Wow. A lot of our church world today
wants to be exactly like the world they want.

(33:58):
They want to be in the world andno one be able to tell there's a
difference between them. They want to fit in.
Yeah. They want to fit in with the
rest of the world. Well, you can't be a son or a
daughter of of God and not be separate, right.
And I believe that is in every aspect of our life.

(34:19):
I believe that's in our attitude, in the way we treat
people. I believe that's in the way that
we present ourselves outwardly. Every everything that we are
should be separate from the world.
And if, if our, what we're calling our church is not,

(34:39):
doesn't have this element of separation in it, it, it might
be a nonprofit, it might be an institution, it, it might do
wonderful things for mankind, but it's not a church if it's
not separate from the world. And then lastly, there is the

(35:00):
mission of the church. And so this is what the church
does. The book of Acts shows us that
it the church supported missions.
It gives to the needs of the community.
It takes care of the widows and orphans, James 1 and 27.
It worships together, It proclaims truth.

(35:24):
That's the heartbeat of the church.
Truth, worship, giving and growth.
That should be the church's mission.
Mission. Truth, worship, giving and
growth. If a if a group reaches beyond
itself or never reaches beyond itself, never supports missions,

(35:49):
never invests in others, if it'snot reaching souls, reaching the
lost, reaching the world, it might be an institution.
Yeah, it might be a nonprofit, It might be a wonderful
humanitarian aid organization, but it's not a church if it

(36:10):
doesn't have the element of the acts of the church, which is
giving so that worship, truth giving and growth can take place
around the world. The church should be should be
growing and and expanding. The church should not be a weak
and anemic hiding in the back corner until Jesus comes back

(36:35):
kind of institution. And so just in conclusion, let's
let's bring this home. The Greek word Jesus used for
church is the word ecclesia. It means a called out assembly

(36:58):
or a popular meeting. Popular.
Ain't that something? That is.
Now, it doesn't mean that it should be popular in the sense
that everyone likes it, the churches and is going to go

(37:20):
against the grain of society, societal norms, the flesh.
It's going to cross you if it doesn't.
It's not a church, might be a nonprofit, but it's not a
church. But it should be popular in the
fact that in in this way, it should be popular in the fact

(37:42):
that it is known. Right.
Your town should know you're there.
Yes, your city officials should know you're there.
Every community in your area should know you're there.
It should be known by the prisonsystem.
Your church should be known by the shut in places.

(38:03):
It should be known by the highways and byways.
Your church should be known by the homeless population.
Your church should be known by the housing developments around
it. That your church should be known
by every ethnic demographic in your city.
Your church will not be liked byeveryone, but it should be a

(38:25):
popular meeting. Popularity draws a crowd, too.
Yes it does. And the Bible tells us that
Jesus told a parable of sending out his servants to call them to

(38:48):
the wedding feast of his of the King's son.
And the nobles could not be morecavalier and disinterested about
the King's son being wed. And so the king says, go out

(39:09):
into the highways and the byways, get the blind, the halt
and the main. If the if the nobles don't want
it, then go get the peasants. But he said, go get them, bring
them into my house, whosoever will let them come.
Why that my house may be full. Jesus wants his church to be a

(39:35):
full house. And so in closing, there is one
true church with one true message.
There's one Lord, there's one faith and one baptism.
He is the way, not a way. He is the way, the truth and the

(39:56):
life. There is one message that will
save the world and that is the message of Christchurch.
The good news, Separation from the world, death, burial and
resurrection, the oneness of God.
And so the hope for the world isnot in pretending that every
belief is correct. The hope for the world is the

(40:21):
church that Jesus built, becausethe gates of hell will not
prevail against that church. Musicians come.