October 24, 2023 • 30 mins
Ever wondered how rules and bylaws in high school sports are changed? Join us on a fascinating journey as we unravel the process, focusing on a proposal to change the Connecticut Interscholastic Athletic Conference (CIAC) out-of-season coaching bylaw. We have the privilege of hosting Fred Balsamo, the Connecticut Association of Athletic Directors' Executive Director, and Amanda Forcucci, an educator and head girl's basketball coach at Hamden High School, to share their insights on this subject.
We will examine a three-part proposal primarily aimed at allowing contact between school coaches and their athletes over the summer on a restrictive basis. Fred and Amanda take us through the other parts of the proposal that are designed to clarify the club and camp rules, making it a level playing field and giving students the chance to attend camps. We'll look at how these changes could affect school districts' costs and implementation and, importantly, the potential benefits to the students. The discussion will also delve into the impact of year-round conditioning and how this rule change could facilitate quicker team identity and dynamic development.
As we wrap up, we'll dig into the vetting process for change proposals, spotlighting how these are filtered through CIAC, sent out for votes, and finally approved by schools. We'll also explore the purpose and value of high school sports, considering their role in fostering teamwork, promoting physical health, and developing social and emotional skills. This episode will underline the importance of sports in creating a sense of school pride and helping students develop life-long skills. Tune in for this riveting discussion!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jada (00:00):
Welcome to CIC's Glory Days Podcast.
This podcast gives an in-depthlook into the inner workings of
the Connecticut Inter ScholasticAthletic Conference and the
purpose behind high schoolsports.
Through interviews with coaches, players, administrators and
other guests, the CIC immersesyou into the glory days of high
school sports.
So now it's time to enjoy thenext episode of the Glory Days
Podcast.
Glenn Lungarini (00:19):
Hello, I'm Glenn Langarini, the Executive
Director of the ConnecticutInter Scholastic Athletic
Conference, otherwise known asthe CIC, and co-host of the
Glory Days Podcast.
Jada (00:29):
And I'm Jada Maribel, a former CIC athlete and co-host
of the CIC Glory Days Podcast.
Today, glenn and I are joinedby Fred Balsama, the Executive
Director of the ConnecticutAssociation of Athletic
Directors, a Demand of Fercucci,an educator and head girls
basketball coach at Hamden HighSchool and an officer of the
Connecticut High School CoachesAssociation.
On today's episode we willexplore CIC's process to change
(00:50):
bylaws, rules and regulations.
To do this, we'll take abackward design approach by
first reviewing a currentproposal to change the CIC out
of season coaching bylaw.
Then we'll discuss the vettingprocess for change proposals and
finish with an overview of whocan propose changes to the CIC
and process of submitting aproposal.
Glenn Lungarini (01:09):
Thank you, Fred and Amanda, thank you for
joining us today.
So in the next week we're goingto be sending out to principals
a vote to the joint proposalthat was sent to the CIC from
the CAD and the CHSCA.
So let's start just talkingabout that proposal a little bit
.
Fred, let's start with you.
Can you tell us what is theproposal that is sent regarding
(01:33):
the out of season coaching?
Fred Balsamo (01:35):
Sure Glenn.
The proposal has threecomponents.
The most important part issomething that would be a way to
allow contact between schoolcoaches and their athletes over
the summer on a very restrictivebasis.
This has been forbidden in thepast, but we believe this
proposal is very restrictive inthat regard.
It basically says a coach cancoach their athletes for two
(01:59):
hours per day, for no more thantwo days per week.
It doesn't start until, afterall, the spring, sports and
school is pretty much done andit ends before the fall season
begins.
Jada (02:11):
Great.
So, amanda, what is therationale for this proposal?
Why do coaches think this wouldbe a good change for athletes?
Amanda Forcucci (02:19):
Yeah, coaches are really excited for this.
We get an opportunity to bewith our players in a period of
time where there's no school andwe're seeing a greater gap, if
you will, between players whoare able to join those summer
(02:41):
leagues or clinics and camps, auprograms, and those who can't.
So the coaching staff among thecoaches, association CAD and
Fred recognized it as well andother athletic directors, hey,
we have to do something aboutthis.
So that's when we came togetherand we said, hey, well, let's
(03:01):
think about how we can do thisthe right way and what would be
fair to all kids.
And I think that's again,that's what we're here for is
for our kids.
So we think this is going to bethe best way to close that gap.
Glenn Lungarini (03:14):
So when you guys were making this proposal
and you worked together on this,it wasn't just about what
you're proposing to offer tokids.
Jada (03:22):
There are actually multiple proposals that are out
to the principals right now.
Glenn Lungarini (03:27):
So the first, as you said, Fred, is to allow
access in the summer in arestricted capacity, two hours
per day, twice per week.
But there are additionalchanges that this proposal is
seeking as well.
I think in what is said to theprincipals is proposal two and
proposal three.
Tell us about this.
Fred Balsamo (03:46):
Well, it's good to set that up to piggyback with
what Amanda said.
So the whole purpose and Iwould be remiss without
mentioning Joe Cansonella, theformer executive director this
was his passion and part of thereason for us coming together
was the obvious inequities thatwere happening between those
(04:06):
communities that had resourcesand those communities that did
not.
Proposals two and three takethe CIC existing rule and
further clarify it so that it'smuch more easier to enforce.
One of the rules is the clubrule and if you're using the
club rule right now, I wouldhazard a guess 90% of the people
(04:29):
are misapplying it.
They don't understand that clubrule.
That is for a family, that is afamily membership in like a
country club.
This was an accepted change tothe CIA, to the CIA season rule,
many, many years ago, becausewe had an individual coaching or
working at a country club andit was his livelihood and kids
(04:51):
were coming there.
So they allow this.
But how many families and howmany kids in our state are
allowed to have the resources tojoin a country club?
So we're suggesting that thatpart of the rule be eliminated.
It's it's certainly notequitable.
Those lower Dirk schools andthose inner city kids are not
belonging to a country club, sothey're not afforded that change
(05:13):
.
The other change is another rule, that is that currently exists,
that is being misapplied orbeing abused, and that's the
camp rule.
When the camp rule wasoriginated it was intended for
kids going to a college campusworking with college coaches,
and very often the high schoolcoach would attend and work with
(05:34):
a selected group, but not justtheir team.
That's morphed into and beenabused so that high school
coaches are taking their kids tocamps and working with them
exclusively.
We have a safeguard in there,the way the rule is written,
that you can't do that if you'reexceeding more than 10% of the
enrollment of the camp.
But who's checking that?
(05:55):
Who's counting the number ofkids in a camp?
So our suggestion, our proposal,is to eliminate that
coach-student relationship.
We want kids to be able to goto camps, we want coaches to go
and work at those camps, butwhat we're saying is, while
you're at that camp you cannotcoach your kids.
That's the third part of that.
(06:15):
It equalizes the playing fieldand we're giving them the
opportunity to run their owncamp twice a week, two hours a
day.
So why do you need to do both?
And so we're hoping all threeparts of this proposal goes
through.
We think it'll be a much easierrule to manage in the summer
and the coaches will be gettingwhat they're seeking the
(06:38):
opportunity to have access totheir kids.
So Amanda let's talk a littlebit more about equity, which
Fred had just mentioned.
Jada (06:45):
A lot of coaches right now believe that the current rules
in place favor the more affluentdistricts with families who
could pay for more elite summercamps and training programs.
But yet those families in thosetowns who don't have those
opportunities, those kids don'tget the same out of season
training.
Amanda Forcucci (06:59):
Yeah, 100% what you said.
So all of us are currentlyliving it and have been living
it for some time.
What you see is everyone it'snow come to who trains you, and
you have these social circleswhere, if you don't have a
(07:20):
trainer, then you're like thehot one out, my dad or my
brother.
So right, you are the odd oneout and you're almost like
ostracized from the social groupthat you're a part of, whether
it's basketball, football,whatever it is, everyone has a
trainer, or it's the thing to do.
Now.
That being said, not alltrainers are created equal
(07:41):
either.
So those that don't have themoney to go to, the one that
knows what they're doing, so tospeak, or that has been trained
appropriately and safely.
You know we are putting kidsthrough rigorous workouts.
We want to make sure thatthey're safe.
Number one it's, you know, yes,sport related, but also how
about the secondary musclegroups that help things and
(08:02):
whatnot?
So sometimes I see kids wantingso desperately to belong and to
be a part of and to keep upwith that somebody.
Oh, yeah, no, I could do thatand I could do it on the cheap
and I'll work with you, but it'snot a complete with the whole
(08:22):
child in mind in terms ofsecondary muscle group, primary
muscle groups, sport specificand non-sports specific.
So I think having theopportunity as certified
individuals right so goingthrough professional development
yearly.
You know, I mean, fred, you'resitting right here, as you know,
he created an entire line ofprofessional development
(08:45):
opportunities that we get yearlyin addition to being CPR, first
aid, trained up and up you know, why wouldn't you want somebody
with that expertise, that, andalso let's talk about vetted by
the school system.
You get hired, you go through aninterview process, you know
people look at you, you haveeyes on you and I think all
(09:08):
those things put together and wealways have safety in mind
first so to have the opportunityto have time with our kids with
all that in mind, I think is amuch better and much controlled
way to help kids get to wherethey need to be All kids.
Glenn Lungarini (09:30):
So, Fred, one of the concerns that we've heard
from school administrators,principals and superintendents
is we look at the out of seasonroles, the potential cost that
this may have.
Within the joint proposal thatwas sent in.
What are the options that areavailable?
If there is a cost that may beassociated with this.
(09:52):
And do districts have to dothis?
Are there options that won'tcost them?
Fred Balsamo (09:57):
anything.
Well, you know and not becauseI was part of this proposal, but
I've been a part of the out ofseason rule since its inception
and I can tell you that this, ofall the things I've ever read,
or we've rewritten or whatever,this is probably the best
product.
You know, when Joe and Istarted brainstorming and
bringing in Amanda and some ofour other athletic directors,
(10:22):
the beauty of this proposalwhile it gives a very limited,
restricted access to athletes,it offers a plethora of ways to
implement it.
Schools can decide they don'twant to have any part of it,
totally divorce themselves ofthe summer activity and just say
to coaches you want to go coachin a summer basketball league.
(10:42):
If there are summer basketballleagues now that operate two
days a week, where coaches goand sit and watch the games they
can't coach, well, now they'dbe able to coach.
Totally divorce of the schooldistrict.
They have the leagues, havetheir own insurance.
You could take that avenue.
You could take the avenue of wewant to have coaches involved
(11:03):
and we want to make them do it,and or we want our own coaches
to do it and we're going to openour facilities.
You can take that route.
You could take any directionyou want to make to make this
happen.
The most important thing isthis is about the kids and,
again, the equity factor.
We believe those lower doorkids, those inner city kids,
(11:26):
when they say goodbye to theircoach in June and school goes
out, they may not see anothereducator until September.
This is going to afford themthat opportunity to be with a
coach over the summer.
We believe those programs willhave grant money and if they
wanted to use it, they can useit.
(11:46):
And the other thing this doesright now it's very restricted.
You can't use school funds inthe summer.
You can't even use booster clubfunds if the booster club is
tied to the school.
So the change in the way thisis written that would allow
loosen up funds, fundraisingfunds and whatnot in addition to
school funds.
(12:07):
We could talk hours about howdifferent it's.
Probably, if it goes through,it's going to get implemented
many different ways.
It's pretty much not one shoefits everybody.
It's going to be.
Let me do it the way it bestfits my school and this is the
way we want to do it.
All it comes down to is no morethan two hours a day, no more
(12:29):
than two days a week, and do itthe way you have to do it.
Glenn Lungarini (12:34):
To clarify that two hours a day and two days a
week, that is for the timeyou're spending with the team
doing skill development orparticipating in games.
It doesn't change that coachescan work out with their kids in
the weight room calisthenics,they can do that more than two
days a week.
Fred Balsamo (12:54):
The rule, those parts of the rule that already
exist are going to remain.
So conditioning year round isallowable.
It's not sport specific, it'sweight training, lifting,
running, cardio type workouts,so they can do that.
So, yes, a program can work outthree days a week but they can
(13:19):
get involved in American LegionBaseball.
Right now a coach cannot coach,but if it's two days a week now
the coach can coach as thebasketball program.
There's different opportunitiesout there, but you're correct
in the conditioning componentwill continue In addition to we
(13:40):
want the kids to stay healthyand safe and conditioning is a
part of that and being able todo that year round is not going
to change.
Jada (13:48):
Right, so this next question is for the both of you,
but I'll start off with the Q&A.
Can you summarize for us whatthe joint CAD and CHSCH proposed
change is for out of seasoncoaching and what this means for
coaches and kids and how itwould affect them?
Amanda Forcucci (14:02):
Yeah, well, I think Fred mentioned so the
change is so right now we can bein attendance to watch our kids
, say at a camp.
So for me, I coach basketballand my kids are involved in a
fall league right now, so I cango on a Saturday morning to the
(14:22):
school.
I can sit in the stands.
Sometimes I bring my kids andwe cheer yeah, we watch them to
be supportive but I can't coachthem.
I can't sit on the bench andcoach them.
I can't take them, let's say,the day before, and go through
an offensive scheme or this iswhat we're going to do on
defense.
I can't take them for skillwork right now and work on
(14:45):
making shots or whatever.
So right now, the way, the rule,you can't do that.
So what the change would be ismight give me an opportunity.
If I'm now, I can maybe sit onthe bench for that game that
runs about an hour and I can bethere to help coach them,
(15:05):
encourage them directlybasketball language and maybe
call timeouts and practice maybedrawing up a play that we
haven't practiced.
We have that like time and itwould afford me to take them
maybe the day before or two daysbefore to prep for that fall
league game in a style where Iwould normally maybe coach
(15:27):
during the year, so they can geta chance to get to know me.
So every time, every year,group dynamics change and that
would be awesome.
I'm thinking that would be areally awesome way for coaches
to get with their kids, that newgroup, to see what their
identity is, how they're goingto be, and as a coach you can
kind of see what implement orwhat changes you have to make.
What personalities are youdealing with, how do you, how is
(15:48):
your team coming together, andyou can try to like, start to
try to mold that you know alittle bit, and maybe that also
comes into the play with yourconditioning.
What are we lacking?
Do I need to work on leadership?
Do I have to work on chemistry?
What is that?
There's also a lot ofintangibles, too.
That gives you a chance to seewhat's unfolding, that you can
kind of work into the preseason.
Jada (16:10):
Definitely, because every year it's so different with
players, yep Premanality, yepstrengths and weaknesses.
Amanda Forcucci (16:15):
Even if you lose one kid, sometimes it can
change a whole group dynamic,yeah, so Fred this change.
Jada (16:21):
What does it mean for athletic administrators?
Fred Balsamo (16:23):
And just to clarify, amanda's example was in
the fall, but this proposal isonly for the summer, so we're
not proposing anything beyondthe summer.
We don't want anybodymisinterpreting that.
Thank you, you know.
Again, athletic directors wereinvolved in the development of
(16:44):
this and, depending on theimplementation plan and the
direction they want to go, theycould be as involved as they
want to be.
There are many athleticdirectors About 48% of our
athletic directors are notfull-time employees that work
over the summer.
Those people can simply decideto say coaches, here's the rule
(17:09):
you can coach two days a weekfor two hours a day.
Go ahead and do it.
Just we're not doing it here,I'm not working, we're not
running it through the highschool facilities, we're not
using our athletic trainers.
But there's many athleticdirectors that are
administrators and they may wantto have that involvement.
So there was input fromathletic administrators in the
(17:31):
development of this proposal.
Again, their personality I know.
When I was an athletic directorI would want to be actively
involved.
So it may put a little bit moreburden on some people, but
that's going to be of theirchoosing.
Glenn Lungarini (17:49):
So, let's shift gears now a little bit and just
talk about the change process.
So, contrary to popular belief,the CIAC does not propose
changes.
As executive director, I do notvote on any committee.
I don't have the authority topropose a change.
Nor does any of our CIAC staffChanges come to us by either
(18:10):
individual member principals whoare voting members of the CIAC
legislative body, through CAD,through the Coaches Association,
through member school leaguesor through a sport committee.
So this proposal came to usthrough CAD and the Coaches
Association jointly.
Share with us what the processis for CAD and then Amanda Yu
(18:34):
for the Coaches Association.
When a topic comes up for aproposal, what is the process
you use to develop a proposal tosend to CIAC?
Fred Balsamo (18:45):
Well, we, you know we take great pride in the way
our board is formed.
Our board of directors is madeup of members from each league.
We have a tremendous, diversepopulation of people that we
listen to, that bring inconstant information from all
over the state.
In addition to that, we havedistrict representatives that
(19:07):
cover a bigger, broader area ofthe state.
So when things are brought tomy attention, you know what we
do is we run them through ourboards, we push them back out to
our leagues for an initial youknow check of you know, is there
interest in going through thisor whatever?
Sometimes, you know we'll getback and it'll be well.
(19:28):
Only some people like it, somedon't and it may die on the vine
Sometimes.
If it gains overwhelmingsupport, then we move to the
next level, which is submittedto the CIAC.
But we're a we're a ground, youknow, grassroots, ground level
organization where we listen toour membership.
I serve at the pleasure of themembership and that's how things
(19:51):
are filtered up through us.
And then onto the CIAC.
With this proposal, the CoachesAssociation was working on a
out of season proposal as wewere recognizing some change
needed, you know, because of ourassociation over the years of
being so close to one another,we decided to merge the two
(20:12):
proposals and jointly move thisthing forward, knowing if we did
that it would have greaterchance of success.
Glenn Lungarini (20:20):
A lot of differences of opinion among
coaches.
So how does the CoachesAssociation handle all the
requests that you have to form?
Amanda Forcucci (20:27):
Yeah, it's similar to what Fred said.
So we I sit on the executiveboard and we can get proposals
from.
We have sport committees thathave chairs and sometimes at our
larger meetings, a chair willcome forward with a proposal
from their, their, their, theirsport, I think.
(20:49):
You know.
I remember golf needed tochange a season to, from you
know, add one from spring tofall because of the lack of of
greens available and stuff likethat.
So that's something like oh,that's great to know, thank you.
And so, similar process.
We send it out, you know, thatproposal, to the coaches.
Hey, let's get a vote on this,does everyone agree?
And then we comes back and wetalk about it at the executive
(21:09):
board.
Okay, it looks good.
And then we, we again, we passit on.
It gets vetted by cat, it getsvetted by the board of control
and CIC and so forth.
So or sometimes you get a league, sometimes you get the FCAC or
the SEC or SWC, or shortly youget you get a league saying, hey
, we have this idea and it mightcome through us, you know,
(21:30):
wanting the coaches associationto vet it.
Send it out to the coaches andhey, what you know, do other
people think this way as well,and then again executive board
takes a look at it and then weagain we pass it on.
So there's a there's, there isa huge vetting process as well,
and same with what Fred said.
You know, we're, we're, we'relike on the ground level as well
.
So you know we have a frontseat with with all coaches
(21:54):
through all the sports, andthere's a ton of ideas that come
up and and, like Fred also said, sometimes they do die.
You send it out as a vote andthe majority doesn't agree or
doesn't think that way, so wewon't send it ahead.
Or hey, this part right here ismissing something.
Can you fix that and send itback out, or whatever.
(22:16):
So kind of very similar.
Jada (22:19):
So now you have seen in your career the CISC process
from a few different lenses asan educator, coach, athletic
director, now as the executivedirector of CAD.
Can you describe yourunderstanding of the CISC
process on receiving,considering, vetting and
recommending a proposed change?
Fred Balsamo (22:35):
Well, you know, as we started to talk about this
proposal, you know and over mycareer I've been involved and
CAD has been involved in a lotof changes Once a proposal is
developed at your level, at theCAD level or the coaches level,
and it gets passed to the CISC,almost all the time it gets put
(22:57):
into a committee.
There's either a standingcommittee, a sport committee, or
we create a committee With thisone.
There was an odyssey's andcommittee years ago and it was
resurrected, so it was put tothe committee.
The committee usually hasrepresentation from principals
in this case superintendents,athletic directors and coaches.
(23:19):
And we do our homework.
And you know, given the charge,this is the proposal coming
where it's coming from.
If it's coming from CAD, it'scoming from coaches.
If it's coming from a league,if it's coming from a principal,
it, then that's taken off theplate.
Now it becomes a CISC committeecharge to vet it, look at it
and go and now do what it has todo.
(23:42):
The committee will then pass itthrough several hurdles.
If it has to do with health andsafety, it would have to go to
sports med.
It would go to principals.
It would go back out tosuperintendents.
It will go back to the athleticdirectors.
So even if, in this case, eventhough CAD and the coaches
association made the proposal,it came back to us to vet as
(24:05):
individual schools, thenthere'll be a vote soon, as
Glenn said, of the principal andthe school.
So you know, people that werenot in favor of it have an
opportunity to voice concerns.
People who were in favor havean opportunity to voice their
concerns and place their vote.
So it's a process.
It sounds cumbersome, it doesslow things down because when
(24:30):
there's change that's going toaffect kids, it does.
It's not always, unless it'shealth and safety.
There's no need to move thatquickly.
So you know the process works.
It's worked for years.
It educates our membership andit gives them all a voice.
They may be a descending voice,but they have a voice.
Jada (24:55):
Exactly Okay.
So I mean you can look at anyhigh school athletic association
across the country.
If you don't fully understandhow they work, you may not know
that there are checks andbalances, like Fred was just
mentioning.
So how does the high schoolcoaches association work as a
check and balance or governingoversight as CIC?
Amanda Forcucci (25:13):
Yeah, I think it well one.
We work closely together.
Fred has said it multiple timesand you know so having even
like an office here, being ableto just either pick up the phone
or go next door and say youknow, hey, I heard this, let's
work together.
I mean the evidence in theoddest season proposal right
(25:35):
there, we both had like-mindedideas and we were able to sit
together and come together andput together a very good,
well-written proposal.
That, I think, makes a lot ofsense, and I know Fred does too.
So I think it gives us a voice.
It's like a symbioticrelationship working together.
(25:58):
If there's something that withthe times that maybe worked 20
years ago, that may not work now, we have a means to say, hey,
this isn't working and oh, okay.
And then we kind of cometogether and we share those
ideas.
And you know, we you know theCIC kind of has this, maybe this
30,000 foot view on everything.
(26:20):
And we, you know we're likeFred said, we're here, we're on
the ground.
So if we see anything, it'sthere's always an avenue to
speak up and say something andeveryone listens.
And, like Fred said, there'sdifferent committees for
different things, depending onwhat it is Gives us a chance to
voice those concerns andwhatever, and read those
proposals and then take it forthone step at a time.
(26:42):
And, like Fred said, sometimesit's not a good one and it gets
shot down, and that's okay too.
And if it is slow, that's okay.
We don't need to make, you know, these quick decisions that
might hurt kids.
We don't want to do that.
So everything is done in aprofessional and guided way,
with the end result of alwayscoming out at the other end that
we help kids in some way.
Glenn Lungarini (27:07):
Okay, lastly for you guys, the CIC Glory Days
podcast explores the questionwhat is the purpose of high
school sports?
So, amanda, teacher educator,head coach, mom you tell us in
your view, what is the purposeof high school sports?
Amanda Forcucci (27:26):
I think it is a piece of that whisk model, that
whole child.
It helps in the development ofa kid, it helps scratch that
itch, the ones that areathletically inclined, it's
available to them.
And there's a ton of avenuesthat the CIC offers in terms of
(27:51):
educational based sports.
And we're in the buildings.
It's after school, it doesn't.
You know, school comes first.
It's education based athletics.
I was just telling my kids theother day we had a sign up
meeting.
I said you know, you go toschool and you get to play a
sport.
You don't go to play a sportand get to go to school.
It's the opposite.
So you know, we have studyhalls, we have guided, weekly
(28:17):
reports that teachers have tosign off on.
There's rules about.
You know the F rule.
You're getting Ds and Fs.
Well, okay, well, you're notgonna be playing sports.
That's where here as studentsfirst, and then you get to do
this cool thing too with yourclassmates after.
So, yeah, so that's how I seeit.
(28:38):
And as a mom, the same way andlike your homework comes first
and then you can go do something.
Glenn Lungarini (28:43):
Fred, from your perspective, what is the
purpose of high school sports?
Fred Balsamo (28:48):
Amanda said it best it's really to provide an
educationally based program tokids, considering that we have
standards and we requireacademic standards.
We require behavioral standardsas compared to non-educational
sports, where you can be atalented athlete and have all Fs
(29:10):
and you can play on anon-school program.
That's not what we're about.
We're about the overall welfareand betterment of a child and
make sure that they'rewell-rounded and the product
that gets put out into societyfrom our coaching programs and
our athletic programs are gonnacontribute to society in a
(29:31):
positive way, and it's all aboutan educationally based program.
And the CISC exists to ensurethat and hopefully provide a
level playing field for all theschools out there so that
winning doesn't become the mostimportant thing.
Everybody strives to win and itis important, but we don't lose
sight of the fact that it's allabout the kids, right?
Glenn Lungarini (29:51):
Fred, Amanda, thank you so much for being part
of our podcast today andspeaking to our audience.
The CISC Glorious Day podcastseeks to answer that question
what is the purpose of highschool sports?
On behalf of my co-host, JadaMaribel, I'm Glenn Lungarini.
Thank you for joining us onthis episode.
We'll see you next time.
Welcome to CIC's Glory Days Podcast.
This podcast gives an in-depthlook into the inner workings of
the Connecticut Inter ScholasticAthletic Conference and the
purpose behind high schoolsports.
Through interviews with coaches, players, administrators and
other guests, the CIC immersesyou into the glory days of high
school sports.
So now it's time to enjoy thenext episode of the Glory Days
Podcast.
Glenn Lungarini (00:19):
Hello, I'm Glenn Langarini, the Executive
Director of the ConnecticutInter Scholastic Athletic
Conference, otherwise known asthe CIC, and co-host of the
Glory Days Podcast.
Jada (00:29):
And I'm Jada Maribel, a former CIC athlete and co-host
of the CIC Glory Days Podcast.
Today, glenn and I are joinedby Fred Balsama, the Executive
Director of the ConnecticutAssociation of Athletic
Directors, a Demand of Fercucci,an educator and head girls
basketball coach at Hamden HighSchool and an officer of the
Connecticut High School CoachesAssociation.
On today's episode we willexplore CIC's process to change
(00:50):
bylaws, rules and regulations.
To do this, we'll take abackward design approach by
first reviewing a currentproposal to change the CIC out
of season coaching bylaw.
Then we'll discuss the vettingprocess for change proposals and
finish with an overview of whocan propose changes to the CIC
and process of submitting aproposal.
Glenn Lungarini (01:09):
Thank you, Fred and Amanda, thank you for
joining us today.
So in the next week we're goingto be sending out to principals
a vote to the joint proposalthat was sent to the CIC from
the CAD and the CHSCA.
So let's start just talkingabout that proposal a little bit
.
Fred, let's start with you.
Can you tell us what is theproposal that is sent regarding
(01:33):
the out of season coaching?
Fred Balsamo (01:35):
Sure Glenn.
The proposal has threecomponents.
The most important part issomething that would be a way to
allow contact between schoolcoaches and their athletes over
the summer on a very restrictivebasis.
This has been forbidden in thepast, but we believe this
proposal is very restrictive inthat regard.
It basically says a coach cancoach their athletes for two
(01:59):
hours per day, for no more thantwo days per week.
It doesn't start until, afterall, the spring, sports and
school is pretty much done andit ends before the fall season
begins.
Jada (02:11):
Great.
So, amanda, what is therationale for this proposal?
Why do coaches think this wouldbe a good change for athletes?
Amanda Forcucci (02:19):
Yeah, coaches are really excited for this.
We get an opportunity to bewith our players in a period of
time where there's no school andwe're seeing a greater gap, if
you will, between players whoare able to join those summer
(02:41):
leagues or clinics and camps, auprograms, and those who can't.
So the coaching staff among thecoaches, association CAD and
Fred recognized it as well andother athletic directors, hey,
we have to do something aboutthis.
So that's when we came togetherand we said, hey, well, let's
(03:01):
think about how we can do thisthe right way and what would be
fair to all kids.
And I think that's again,that's what we're here for is
for our kids.
So we think this is going to bethe best way to close that gap.
Glenn Lungarini (03:14):
So when you guys were making this proposal
and you worked together on this,it wasn't just about what
you're proposing to offer tokids.
Jada (03:22):
There are actually multiple proposals that are out
to the principals right now.
Glenn Lungarini (03:27):
So the first, as you said, Fred, is to allow
access in the summer in arestricted capacity, two hours
per day, twice per week.
But there are additionalchanges that this proposal is
seeking as well.
I think in what is said to theprincipals is proposal two and
proposal three.
Tell us about this.
Fred Balsamo (03:46):
Well, it's good to set that up to piggyback with
what Amanda said.
So the whole purpose and Iwould be remiss without
mentioning Joe Cansonella, theformer executive director this
was his passion and part of thereason for us coming together
was the obvious inequities thatwere happening between those
(04:06):
communities that had resourcesand those communities that did
not.
Proposals two and three takethe CIC existing rule and
further clarify it so that it'smuch more easier to enforce.
One of the rules is the clubrule and if you're using the
club rule right now, I wouldhazard a guess 90% of the people
(04:29):
are misapplying it.
They don't understand that clubrule.
That is for a family, that is afamily membership in like a
country club.
This was an accepted change tothe CIA, to the CIA season rule,
many, many years ago, becausewe had an individual coaching or
working at a country club andit was his livelihood and kids
(04:51):
were coming there.
So they allow this.
But how many families and howmany kids in our state are
allowed to have the resources tojoin a country club?
So we're suggesting that thatpart of the rule be eliminated.
It's it's certainly notequitable.
Those lower Dirk schools andthose inner city kids are not
belonging to a country club, sothey're not afforded that change
(05:13):
.
The other change is another rule, that is that currently exists,
that is being misapplied orbeing abused, and that's the
camp rule.
When the camp rule wasoriginated it was intended for
kids going to a college campusworking with college coaches,
and very often the high schoolcoach would attend and work with
(05:34):
a selected group, but not justtheir team.
That's morphed into and beenabused so that high school
coaches are taking their kids tocamps and working with them
exclusively.
We have a safeguard in there,the way the rule is written,
that you can't do that if you'reexceeding more than 10% of the
enrollment of the camp.
But who's checking that?
(05:55):
Who's counting the number ofkids in a camp?
So our suggestion, our proposal,is to eliminate that
coach-student relationship.
We want kids to be able to goto camps, we want coaches to go
and work at those camps, butwhat we're saying is, while
you're at that camp you cannotcoach your kids.
That's the third part of that.
(06:15):
It equalizes the playing fieldand we're giving them the
opportunity to run their owncamp twice a week, two hours a
day.
So why do you need to do both?
And so we're hoping all threeparts of this proposal goes
through.
We think it'll be a much easierrule to manage in the summer
and the coaches will be gettingwhat they're seeking the
(06:38):
opportunity to have access totheir kids.
So Amanda let's talk a littlebit more about equity, which
Fred had just mentioned.
Jada (06:45):
A lot of coaches right now believe that the current rules
in place favor the more affluentdistricts with families who
could pay for more elite summercamps and training programs.
But yet those families in thosetowns who don't have those
opportunities, those kids don'tget the same out of season
training.
Amanda Forcucci (06:59):
Yeah, 100% what you said.
So all of us are currentlyliving it and have been living
it for some time.
What you see is everyone it'snow come to who trains you, and
you have these social circleswhere, if you don't have a
(07:20):
trainer, then you're like thehot one out, my dad or my
brother.
So right, you are the odd oneout and you're almost like
ostracized from the social groupthat you're a part of, whether
it's basketball, football,whatever it is, everyone has a
trainer, or it's the thing to do.
Now.
That being said, not alltrainers are created equal
(07:41):
either.
So those that don't have themoney to go to, the one that
knows what they're doing, so tospeak, or that has been trained
appropriately and safely.
You know we are putting kidsthrough rigorous workouts.
We want to make sure thatthey're safe.
Number one it's, you know, yes,sport related, but also how
about the secondary musclegroups that help things and
(08:02):
whatnot?
So sometimes I see kids wantingso desperately to belong and to
be a part of and to keep upwith that somebody.
Oh, yeah, no, I could do thatand I could do it on the cheap
and I'll work with you, but it'snot a complete with the whole
(08:22):
child in mind in terms ofsecondary muscle group, primary
muscle groups, sport specificand non-sports specific.
So I think having theopportunity as certified
individuals right so goingthrough professional development
yearly.
You know, I mean, fred, you'resitting right here, as you know,
he created an entire line ofprofessional development
(08:45):
opportunities that we get yearlyin addition to being CPR, first
aid, trained up and up you know, why wouldn't you want somebody
with that expertise, that, andalso let's talk about vetted by
the school system.
You get hired, you go through aninterview process, you know
people look at you, you haveeyes on you and I think all
(09:08):
those things put together and wealways have safety in mind
first so to have the opportunityto have time with our kids with
all that in mind, I think is amuch better and much controlled
way to help kids get to wherethey need to be All kids.
Glenn Lungarini (09:30):
So, Fred, one of the concerns that we've heard
from school administrators,principals and superintendents
is we look at the out of seasonroles, the potential cost that
this may have.
Within the joint proposal thatwas sent in.
What are the options that areavailable?
If there is a cost that may beassociated with this.
(09:52):
And do districts have to dothis?
Are there options that won'tcost them?
Fred Balsamo (09:57):
anything.
Well, you know and not becauseI was part of this proposal, but
I've been a part of the out ofseason rule since its inception
and I can tell you that this, ofall the things I've ever read,
or we've rewritten or whatever,this is probably the best
product.
You know, when Joe and Istarted brainstorming and
bringing in Amanda and some ofour other athletic directors,
(10:22):
the beauty of this proposalwhile it gives a very limited,
restricted access to athletes,it offers a plethora of ways to
implement it.
Schools can decide they don'twant to have any part of it,
totally divorce themselves ofthe summer activity and just say
to coaches you want to go coachin a summer basketball league.
(10:42):
If there are summer basketballleagues now that operate two
days a week, where coaches goand sit and watch the games they
can't coach, well, now they'dbe able to coach.
Totally divorce of the schooldistrict.
They have the leagues, havetheir own insurance.
You could take that avenue.
You could take the avenue of wewant to have coaches involved
(11:03):
and we want to make them do it,and or we want our own coaches
to do it and we're going to openour facilities.
You can take that route.
You could take any directionyou want to make to make this
happen.
The most important thing isthis is about the kids and,
again, the equity factor.
We believe those lower doorkids, those inner city kids,
(11:26):
when they say goodbye to theircoach in June and school goes
out, they may not see anothereducator until September.
This is going to afford themthat opportunity to be with a
coach over the summer.
We believe those programs willhave grant money and if they
wanted to use it, they can useit.
(11:46):
And the other thing this doesright now it's very restricted.
You can't use school funds inthe summer.
You can't even use booster clubfunds if the booster club is
tied to the school.
So the change in the way thisis written that would allow
loosen up funds, fundraisingfunds and whatnot in addition to
school funds.
(12:07):
We could talk hours about howdifferent it's.
Probably, if it goes through,it's going to get implemented
many different ways.
It's pretty much not one shoefits everybody.
It's going to be.
Let me do it the way it bestfits my school and this is the
way we want to do it.
All it comes down to is no morethan two hours a day, no more
(12:29):
than two days a week, and do itthe way you have to do it.
Glenn Lungarini (12:34):
To clarify that two hours a day and two days a
week, that is for the timeyou're spending with the team
doing skill development orparticipating in games.
It doesn't change that coachescan work out with their kids in
the weight room calisthenics,they can do that more than two
days a week.
Fred Balsamo (12:54):
The rule, those parts of the rule that already
exist are going to remain.
So conditioning year round isallowable.
It's not sport specific, it'sweight training, lifting,
running, cardio type workouts,so they can do that.
So, yes, a program can work outthree days a week but they can
(13:19):
get involved in American LegionBaseball.
Right now a coach cannot coach,but if it's two days a week now
the coach can coach as thebasketball program.
There's different opportunitiesout there, but you're correct
in the conditioning componentwill continue In addition to we
(13:40):
want the kids to stay healthyand safe and conditioning is a
part of that and being able todo that year round is not going
to change.
Jada (13:48):
Right, so this next question is for the both of you,
but I'll start off with the Q&A.
Can you summarize for us whatthe joint CAD and CHSCH proposed
change is for out of seasoncoaching and what this means for
coaches and kids and how itwould affect them?
Amanda Forcucci (14:02):
Yeah, well, I think Fred mentioned so the
change is so right now we can bein attendance to watch our kids
, say at a camp.
So for me, I coach basketballand my kids are involved in a
fall league right now, so I cango on a Saturday morning to the
(14:22):
school.
I can sit in the stands.
Sometimes I bring my kids andwe cheer yeah, we watch them to
be supportive but I can't coachthem.
I can't sit on the bench andcoach them.
I can't take them, let's say,the day before, and go through
an offensive scheme or this iswhat we're going to do on
defense.
I can't take them for skillwork right now and work on
(14:45):
making shots or whatever.
So right now, the way, the rule,you can't do that.
So what the change would be ismight give me an opportunity.
If I'm now, I can maybe sit onthe bench for that game that
runs about an hour and I can bethere to help coach them,
(15:05):
encourage them directlybasketball language and maybe
call timeouts and practice maybedrawing up a play that we
haven't practiced.
We have that like time and itwould afford me to take them
maybe the day before or two daysbefore to prep for that fall
league game in a style where Iwould normally maybe coach
(15:27):
during the year, so they can geta chance to get to know me.
So every time, every year,group dynamics change and that
would be awesome.
I'm thinking that would be areally awesome way for coaches
to get with their kids, that newgroup, to see what their
identity is, how they're goingto be, and as a coach you can
kind of see what implement orwhat changes you have to make.
What personalities are youdealing with, how do you, how is
(15:48):
your team coming together, andyou can try to like, start to
try to mold that you know alittle bit, and maybe that also
comes into the play with yourconditioning.
What are we lacking?
Do I need to work on leadership?
Do I have to work on chemistry?
What is that?
There's also a lot ofintangibles, too.
That gives you a chance to seewhat's unfolding, that you can
kind of work into the preseason.
Jada (16:10):
Definitely, because every year it's so different with
players, yep Premanality, yepstrengths and weaknesses.
Amanda Forcucci (16:15):
Even if you lose one kid, sometimes it can
change a whole group dynamic,yeah, so Fred this change.
Jada (16:21):
What does it mean for athletic administrators?
Fred Balsamo (16:23):
And just to clarify, amanda's example was in
the fall, but this proposal isonly for the summer, so we're
not proposing anything beyondthe summer.
We don't want anybodymisinterpreting that.
Thank you, you know.
Again, athletic directors wereinvolved in the development of
(16:44):
this and, depending on theimplementation plan and the
direction they want to go, theycould be as involved as they
want to be.
There are many athleticdirectors About 48% of our
athletic directors are notfull-time employees that work
over the summer.
Those people can simply decideto say coaches, here's the rule
(17:09):
you can coach two days a weekfor two hours a day.
Go ahead and do it.
Just we're not doing it here,I'm not working, we're not
running it through the highschool facilities, we're not
using our athletic trainers.
But there's many athleticdirectors that are
administrators and they may wantto have that involvement.
So there was input fromathletic administrators in the
(17:31):
development of this proposal.
Again, their personality I know.
When I was an athletic directorI would want to be actively
involved.
So it may put a little bit moreburden on some people, but
that's going to be of theirchoosing.
Glenn Lungarini (17:49):
So, let's shift gears now a little bit and just
talk about the change process.
So, contrary to popular belief,the CIAC does not propose
changes.
As executive director, I do notvote on any committee.
I don't have the authority topropose a change.
Nor does any of our CIAC staffChanges come to us by either
(18:10):
individual member principals whoare voting members of the CIAC
legislative body, through CAD,through the Coaches Association,
through member school leaguesor through a sport committee.
So this proposal came to usthrough CAD and the Coaches
Association jointly.
Share with us what the processis for CAD and then Amanda Yu
(18:34):
for the Coaches Association.
When a topic comes up for aproposal, what is the process
you use to develop a proposal tosend to CIAC?
Fred Balsamo (18:45):
Well, we, you know we take great pride in the way
our board is formed.
Our board of directors is madeup of members from each league.
We have a tremendous, diversepopulation of people that we
listen to, that bring inconstant information from all
over the state.
In addition to that, we havedistrict representatives that
(19:07):
cover a bigger, broader area ofthe state.
So when things are brought tomy attention, you know what we
do is we run them through ourboards, we push them back out to
our leagues for an initial youknow check of you know, is there
interest in going through thisor whatever?
Sometimes, you know we'll getback and it'll be well.
(19:28):
Only some people like it, somedon't and it may die on the vine
Sometimes.
If it gains overwhelmingsupport, then we move to the
next level, which is submittedto the CIAC.
But we're a we're a ground, youknow, grassroots, ground level
organization where we listen toour membership.
I serve at the pleasure of themembership and that's how things
(19:51):
are filtered up through us.
And then onto the CIAC.
With this proposal, the CoachesAssociation was working on a
out of season proposal as wewere recognizing some change
needed, you know, because of ourassociation over the years of
being so close to one another,we decided to merge the two
(20:12):
proposals and jointly move thisthing forward, knowing if we did
that it would have greaterchance of success.
Glenn Lungarini (20:20):
A lot of differences of opinion among
coaches.
So how does the CoachesAssociation handle all the
requests that you have to form?
Amanda Forcucci (20:27):
Yeah, it's similar to what Fred said.
So we I sit on the executiveboard and we can get proposals
from.
We have sport committees thathave chairs and sometimes at our
larger meetings, a chair willcome forward with a proposal
from their, their, their, theirsport, I think.
(20:49):
You know.
I remember golf needed tochange a season to, from you
know, add one from spring tofall because of the lack of of
greens available and stuff likethat.
So that's something like oh,that's great to know, thank you.
And so, similar process.
We send it out, you know, thatproposal, to the coaches.
Hey, let's get a vote on this,does everyone agree?
And then we comes back and wetalk about it at the executive
(21:09):
board.
Okay, it looks good.
And then we, we again, we passit on.
It gets vetted by cat, it getsvetted by the board of control
and CIC and so forth.
So or sometimes you get a league, sometimes you get the FCAC or
the SEC or SWC, or shortly youget you get a league saying, hey
, we have this idea and it mightcome through us, you know,
(21:30):
wanting the coaches associationto vet it.
Send it out to the coaches andhey, what you know, do other
people think this way as well,and then again executive board
takes a look at it and then weagain we pass it on.
So there's a there's, there isa huge vetting process as well,
and same with what Fred said.
You know, we're, we're, we'relike on the ground level as well
.
So you know we have a frontseat with with all coaches
(21:54):
through all the sports, andthere's a ton of ideas that come
up and and, like Fred also said, sometimes they do die.
You send it out as a vote andthe majority doesn't agree or
doesn't think that way, so wewon't send it ahead.
Or hey, this part right here ismissing something.
Can you fix that and send itback out, or whatever.
(22:16):
So kind of very similar.
Jada (22:19):
So now you have seen in your career the CISC process
from a few different lenses asan educator, coach, athletic
director, now as the executivedirector of CAD.
Can you describe yourunderstanding of the CISC
process on receiving,considering, vetting and
recommending a proposed change?
Fred Balsamo (22:35):
Well, you know, as we started to talk about this
proposal, you know and over mycareer I've been involved and
CAD has been involved in a lotof changes Once a proposal is
developed at your level, at theCAD level or the coaches level,
and it gets passed to the CISC,almost all the time it gets put
(22:57):
into a committee.
There's either a standingcommittee, a sport committee, or
we create a committee With thisone.
There was an odyssey's andcommittee years ago and it was
resurrected, so it was put tothe committee.
The committee usually hasrepresentation from principals
in this case superintendents,athletic directors and coaches.
(23:19):
And we do our homework.
And you know, given the charge,this is the proposal coming
where it's coming from.
If it's coming from CAD, it'scoming from coaches.
If it's coming from a league,if it's coming from a principal,
it, then that's taken off theplate.
Now it becomes a CISC committeecharge to vet it, look at it
and go and now do what it has todo.
(23:42):
The committee will then pass itthrough several hurdles.
If it has to do with health andsafety, it would have to go to
sports med.
It would go to principals.
It would go back out tosuperintendents.
It will go back to the athleticdirectors.
So even if, in this case, eventhough CAD and the coaches
association made the proposal,it came back to us to vet as
(24:05):
individual schools, thenthere'll be a vote soon, as
Glenn said, of the principal andthe school.
So you know, people that werenot in favor of it have an
opportunity to voice concerns.
People who were in favor havean opportunity to voice their
concerns and place their vote.
So it's a process.
It sounds cumbersome, it doesslow things down because when
(24:30):
there's change that's going toaffect kids, it does.
It's not always, unless it'shealth and safety.
There's no need to move thatquickly.
So you know the process works.
It's worked for years.
It educates our membership andit gives them all a voice.
They may be a descending voice,but they have a voice.
Jada (24:55):
Exactly Okay.
So I mean you can look at anyhigh school athletic association
across the country.
If you don't fully understandhow they work, you may not know
that there are checks andbalances, like Fred was just
mentioning.
So how does the high schoolcoaches association work as a
check and balance or governingoversight as CIC?
Amanda Forcucci (25:13):
Yeah, I think it well one.
We work closely together.
Fred has said it multiple timesand you know so having even
like an office here, being ableto just either pick up the phone
or go next door and say youknow, hey, I heard this, let's
work together.
I mean the evidence in theoddest season proposal right
(25:35):
there, we both had like-mindedideas and we were able to sit
together and come together andput together a very good,
well-written proposal.
That, I think, makes a lot ofsense, and I know Fred does too.
So I think it gives us a voice.
It's like a symbioticrelationship working together.
(25:58):
If there's something that withthe times that maybe worked 20
years ago, that may not work now, we have a means to say, hey,
this isn't working and oh, okay.
And then we kind of cometogether and we share those
ideas.
And you know, we you know theCIC kind of has this, maybe this
30,000 foot view on everything.
(26:20):
And we, you know we're likeFred said, we're here, we're on
the ground.
So if we see anything, it'sthere's always an avenue to
speak up and say something andeveryone listens.
And, like Fred said, there'sdifferent committees for
different things, depending onwhat it is Gives us a chance to
voice those concerns andwhatever, and read those
proposals and then take it forthone step at a time.
(26:42):
And, like Fred said, sometimesit's not a good one and it gets
shot down, and that's okay too.
And if it is slow, that's okay.
We don't need to make, you know, these quick decisions that
might hurt kids.
We don't want to do that.
So everything is done in aprofessional and guided way,
with the end result of alwayscoming out at the other end that
we help kids in some way.
Glenn Lungarini (27:07):
Okay, lastly for you guys, the CIC Glory Days
podcast explores the questionwhat is the purpose of high
school sports?
So, amanda, teacher educator,head coach, mom you tell us in
your view, what is the purposeof high school sports?
Amanda Forcucci (27:26):
I think it is a piece of that whisk model, that
whole child.
It helps in the development ofa kid, it helps scratch that
itch, the ones that areathletically inclined, it's
available to them.
And there's a ton of avenuesthat the CIC offers in terms of
(27:51):
educational based sports.
And we're in the buildings.
It's after school, it doesn't.
You know, school comes first.
It's education based athletics.
I was just telling my kids theother day we had a sign up
meeting.
I said you know, you go toschool and you get to play a
sport.
You don't go to play a sportand get to go to school.
It's the opposite.
So you know, we have studyhalls, we have guided, weekly
(28:17):
reports that teachers have tosign off on.
There's rules about.
You know the F rule.
You're getting Ds and Fs.
Well, okay, well, you're notgonna be playing sports.
That's where here as studentsfirst, and then you get to do
this cool thing too with yourclassmates after.
So, yeah, so that's how I seeit.
(28:38):
And as a mom, the same way andlike your homework comes first
and then you can go do something.
Glenn Lungarini (28:43):
Fred, from your perspective, what is the
purpose of high school sports?
Fred Balsamo (28:48):
Amanda said it best it's really to provide an
educationally based program tokids, considering that we have
standards and we requireacademic standards.
We require behavioral standardsas compared to non-educational
sports, where you can be atalented athlete and have all Fs
(29:10):
and you can play on anon-school program.
That's not what we're about.
We're about the overall welfareand betterment of a child and
make sure that they'rewell-rounded and the product
that gets put out into societyfrom our coaching programs and
our athletic programs are gonnacontribute to society in a
(29:31):
positive way, and it's all aboutan educationally based program.
And the CISC exists to ensurethat and hopefully provide a
level playing field for all theschools out there so that
winning doesn't become the mostimportant thing.
Everybody strives to win and itis important, but we don't lose
sight of the fact that it's allabout the kids, right?
Glenn Lungarini (29:51):
Fred, Amanda, thank you so much for being part
of our podcast today andspeaking to our audience.
The CISC Glorious Day podcastseeks to answer that question
what is the purpose of highschool sports?
On behalf of my co-host, JadaMaribel, I'm Glenn Lungarini.
Thank you for joining us onthis episode.
We'll see you next time.
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