April 3, 2021 • 58 mins
In today's episode, we discuss the optics surrounding the trial of Derek Chauvin...the officer who knelt on the neck of George Floyd. We examine how rather than defending the officer, the defense has opted to villainize Floyd and how unfair that is. We also discuss the interaction of an officer in Arkansas who pulled over a Black man driving a U-Haul truck and was arrested so the officers could search the back. Finally, Patrick C. Brown from the NAACP Political Action Committee discusses some of the voter suppression bills and how we can fight against them as individuals.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to another episode of Civic Cipher. I'm your host,
rams is Jah.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
They call me q Ward, but my name is Quentin,
but Quentin is you know, not easy to say. People
call me Quentin and Quincy, so I just go with Q.
So when you hear q Ward, it's not the stage name,
it's my actual initial and last name. I just want
the people to know that I wasn't trying to be cool.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
And uh, you know, today we're back to talk to you,
hopefully about some some things that we can do to
make the world a little bit.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Better, safer, more equitable. You know, in true to form,
We're going to have our conversations about things that are
going on in the world, as we typically do here
on Civic Cipher. But the thing is today we have
a special guest in the building with us. This is
somebody that I've really wanted to come up on the
(00:59):
show for a long time, and he's such a busy person.
I've heard him speak a handful of times, enough times
to make me wish i've heard him. I was able
to hear him speak more, and it just so happens
to be the case that we both are on the
NAACP's Political Action Committee. And so this is a person
(01:21):
that's been it's been a long time coming being able
to plug in with such a profound thinker and speaker.
And I'm sure there's a whole list of accolades. I
would love to hear all about him. But Patrick C.
Brown is with us today, So welcome to the show.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
Yo, thanks for having me.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
I mean, you make me sound like, you know, I
need a book deal, a publicist or something. I'm just
like I like to keep thinking. So well, I was
trying and roll in silence. I try and you know,
you know, speak my truth and you know, get people
to think about stuff.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
So thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Absolutely absolutely, Well, this is the place to have the
types of conversations that we are going to have to
and so I appreciate you. And then a little later
on in the show, we're gonna have to talk a
little bit about some of the voters suppression initiatives that
have taken center stage and you know, the the legislature
(02:16):
and so forth, and I think that you're perhaps a
bit more familiar with the goings on in that arena
than either me or Q, and so we would love
to hear your thoughts on that and uh, of course
educate folks on what we can do to empower ourselves
and fight against those voter suppression initiatives. But first order
of business, you know, big news this week is the
(02:42):
trial of His name doesn't even deserve to be said,
but I have to say it, so you know what
I'm talking about. His name is Derek Shaven, Shaven something
like something like that. This is the officer who has
uh been tried, uh try, he's being tried for murder, right,
(03:07):
and the person who was responsible for for snuffing the
life of George Floyd out. Now, be honest, you you
probably know a little bit more about what's going on
with the trial. Q. So how about you? Unfortunately? Yeah,
so so talk talk me through what's happened.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
So can we break down the charges?
Speaker 5 (03:28):
I know that's I think that that really sends the
message home to like, you know, what, what what this
man did?
Speaker 4 (03:34):
I mean?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah, absolutely, And before we get to the specific charger,
I want people to understand why I said unfortunately, because
that might seem obvious, right, it's a trial of a
black man that was murdered. You know, maybe that's what
people thought I meant, But unfortunately, because watching the trial
causes you to relive and re experience the trauma that
(03:57):
all of us, I think across the world collectively experienced
last year when George Floyd was murdered, and voluntary trauma
is not really I don't really subscribe except because of
what we do. My professional responsibility means you have to.
(04:18):
One of us needs to be paying attention specifically to
what's going on with this trial. And I have to
be honest, I wish it was Ramses because Ramses is
the hopeful, optimistic side of this coin that we are
and unfortunately, the more progress we make, the more we
(04:42):
realize that we have so much further to go. And
part of this trial for the murder of George Floyd
with Officer Derek Chauvin, and I'm not sure that I'm
pronouncing his name incorrectly as you listen to the defense,
(05:05):
and you think that they were trying to prove the
guilt of George Floyd instead of the innocence of their
own client. And far too often in this country that's
the case. There's a black victim of violence by far
(05:31):
too often a white officer, and the defense spends most
of their resources on shining the light on the worst
parts of this victim's life, an effort to justify and
or sway emotionally the jury of quote unquote peers. So
(05:57):
it's a hard trial to experience, to watch, to pay
attention to, because there's this lingering feeling of mistrust with
me personally, where I'm like, justice won't be served here,
and I really don't like that. That's how I feel.
But I've seen this movie a lot of times, and
(06:19):
I sit and wait for the post credit scene, like
a Marvel movie, waiting for the waiting for the good
part to happen or that can't be it, And far
too often there's no post credit scene. The movie goes
off the credits roll, this over another person that wasn't
(06:39):
found guilty or even when found guilty, right, because even
once a person is convicted, they have to be sentenced.
The sentences are really liked relatively, you know what I mean.
And sometimes you know, the state or the city or
the government even find just reason to press causes, I mean,
(07:02):
to press to press charges even when we have video evidence.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
I want to say something. You know, there's a you
know when when in Ferguson a few years ago, there
was this similar to what you said. There was this
almost this effort to make Mike Brown seem like he
(07:32):
was this thug gang member whatever, as though that warrants
his death or that justifies the office, the fear that
the officer experiences, and these are supposed to be the
brave even you know, and so forth, and far too often,
especially coming from an environment like you know, the one
(07:53):
that I was born into again, which is Compton, California,
I'm able to recognize that, you know, people are these
are most of the time, they're just normal people, and
it's just very unfortunate to see that. You know. The
the defense is, well, let's let's make the the person
(08:18):
who can't say their piece, that the person who's lost
their life look like they deserve to die, you know,
or that that that the the the murder was was justified.
And I think that further reinforces this idea that black
lives don't matter, which has kind of been a part
(08:43):
of the conversations or really a part of the tapestry
of this country since inception. You know, we're just disposable,
and you know, that's just kind of what happens. It's sad,
but you know, probably deserved.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
And what's what's sickening about about this this trial? And
I mean we could we could we go down the list.
I mean, I mean I'm not I'm not gonna ask
anybody pull out any IDs. I think I'm probably maybe
the older of the three of us here. And I
mean for me, you know, I clearly remember the Rodney
King beating. And I mean I was I was what
(09:18):
as high school and watching that on TV and it
was crazy about that is we were supposed to play
in a basketball tournament in California and I got canceled
because of the LA riots and so you know, it
was kind of really interesting seeing just the different attitudes.
You know, my my my Caucasian teammates were mad because
(09:40):
our California trip was done. And why you know why
these be like burning down California. We're supposed to go
to Disneyland, but play.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Ball and all this kind of stuff. We're going to
re Forum.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
You know, it was a pre stable center and everything.
But all my black teammates and myself and our parents,
we just had this look of like, you know this
it's like it's a another day in America.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Sure, but we had we.
Speaker 5 (10:03):
Were hopeful because this stuff has been happening since, you know,
before any of us were here for our grandparents, for
our grandparent grandparents. But we were like, we were hopeful
because we got a video. We're not making this up.
We've got proof. And then they all got off. You know.
Now they did a federal trial and everything, but ultimately
(10:26):
they never they never really saw the punishment. And what
really just hurts my heart and angers me is the
fact that it's a viable defense to play to all
the racial, racist, white supremacist stereotypes of blout black men
and when you look at some of the stuff for
(10:47):
the witness, because I saw the video of the one,
the one guy that I believe he's the MT, the brother,
and he was and they were playing like, were you angry?
You know, we're you know, you know you you called
you know, I don't know, I don't know what the
rules are for what I can you know about the
language I'm gonna play. I'm gonna go generated, but but
you know you called him all these derogatory terms and whatnot.
(11:10):
And my thing is, if you're watching somebody die, you
gotta be a dead human being inside not to be angry. Sure,
I mean, I watched that video because I said, you know,
I had I had to. I watched it because I said,
I had to be a witness, a witness to this
man's death, you know. And I was just angry. So
(11:34):
I can imagine being there live seeing it happen.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Yeah, and you it's your present for right.
Speaker 5 (11:42):
And seeing yourself in that And and I think, you
know what, what I've tried to explain to I think,
you know, white people, folks who are not less, are
less likely to experience this type of violence, is that
you have to understand that when this happens for Freddie Gray,
for you know, you know, Oscar Grant, for George Floyd,
(12:03):
we see that could easily be us. The three of
us sitting here could easily be George Floyd. And then
you take it a step further. I think of you know,
of you know, the young kids like Tamir Rice. I've
got eleven year old son, and you know, I see,
you know, Trayvon Martin. I see my son's eyes. I
(12:25):
have two sons, you know, I see you know, Tamir
Rice's eyes. I think you know, if my boys go
down just down to the end of the block, we'll
play basketball. Is somebody gonna not see an eleven year
old and an eight year old? Are they gonna see
grown men?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yeah, and grown black men.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
Grown black men, and take their lives.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Or put them in a position to where they have
to justify their existence or face death, you know, because
some folks they might not engage directly, but they'll call
the police. Hey, I saw someone walking down the street.
He looks like he doesn't belong here. And then the
police show up. And history has shown us that oftentimes
it's the police that escalate the situation. The police show
up with the weapons. The police show up, you know,
(13:08):
with the capacity to kill. And this is critical.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
I'm sorry because you're you're you're on the right path
of this, but let me throw this in. The police
are capable of not doing that because we see it
happen when the individual is it's not black.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Let's let's go. Let's go to Wisconsin.
Speaker 5 (13:32):
Dude had a semi semi automatic weapon in a highly
charged environment, lots of stuff. You know, you can say,
every indicator of a policeman should be on you know,
read alert. Yet they let him walk by, first of all,
and then when there was you know, somebody got shot
or whatnot, they were able to control themselves. I've witnessed,
(13:55):
you know, especially when I go back to my you know,
my days when I used to go to clubs and
you know when I lived that life and whatnot. Sure,
I've witnessed white dudes say all sorts of stuff to
cops under the influence, call them everything but their name,
and they can show self control. But then, officer, this
(14:16):
is my house. I'm the I'm the homeowner. Why I
need to see somebody? Could you step out, make sure
you show your hands, move slowly.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
And we're going to talk about that. I want you
to keep keep that in mind. We're going to talk
about that when we talk about So there was an
incident that happened in I want to say it was Arkansas.
About how the interactions with police are. They tend to
be very aggressive with when it comes to black males specifically,
but black people and then to a larger extent, all
(14:44):
people of color. I don't want to look past our
Hispanic brothers and sisters in this moment, because I do
recognize that it happens to them as well. Yes, but
before we get there, and I do want to talk
about that at length. You mentioned something, uh and I
thought that it was it was really important to mention
this or to discuss this right now, there's this narrative
(15:10):
that exists on the other side for people that say, well,
this is one person that died at the hands of
a police officer. Of course, there's some bad apples, there's
some people that take it too far, but for the
most part, the policing works. It keeps us safe, right
And I understand that in their reality, that is their truth,
and we have to allow for that. You know, we
(15:31):
have to challenge it, but we have to allow for
it to exist in the first place. And so we
want to establish that first. These people, oftentimes will then
take it a step further, which you know, we will
all agree is pretty flagrant on their part, and they'll say, well,
why aren't you as upset with what's going on in
(15:52):
Chicago where people are murdered all the time, or what
about black on black crime that takes more black lives
quote unquote than police violence, and so forth. And I
think that a lot of times people miss that what
we're trying to do is reshape the narrative, reshape the
value of black life. Because of images were shown on
(16:12):
television and the culture at large, and there's something and
when you were talking about the Rodney King riots in
Los Angeles, which I was there for, that there's something
that a lot of folks don't mention or they don't
really consider, and that's that if there is a quote
(16:36):
black on black crime that takes place, black on black
crime is not a real thing any more than white
on white crime that doesn't exist. You know that you you,
you're around people that look like you. For the most part,
your family members look like you.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
And so you know what I mean, Most crimes in
general are based on proximity. That's it. Color, that's it.
Speaker 5 (16:54):
And you're you're not going to go You're not going
to go clear across town, rob somebody if you can.
Rob's closer to if you need, you know, you need
some convenience and in those situations.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
But you know, this narrative has been established and allowed
to exist and grow and fester to where folks can
kind of hide behind this and say, well, listen, I
don't need to support black lives matter. Of course, all
lives matter, and black people need to figure out what
their values are before they come for our police. We
support our police again, which again is a sensible thing
(17:29):
when you don't know any better. So I don't want
to attack a vacuum right in a vacuum absent all
the rest of the facts. But the thing that I
like to bring up in situations like that is that
if there is a quote black on black crime that happens,
we demand justice, We demand a trial. Usually the person
(17:53):
is found, if the police are doing their job, the
person goes to court as a day in court, and
if there's a conviction, the person has put away. And
all too often what we see with these police shootings
is that they're a high profile so again shaping the
national narrative one way or the other. And what is
(18:16):
infinitely more important is that there is no justice. They're
not even ever really on trial, as you mentioned in
Los Angeles in ninety two.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Sometimes they don't even bring charges.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
I mean, it's rare, it's rare. Do we even get
to the stage many times.
Speaker 5 (18:28):
Sure, we've got we've got incidences happened in Americapa County
that never saw the inside of court.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
Word, yeah, I know, you know the Americopa County.
Speaker 5 (18:36):
You know, attorney's office decline to even pursue any charges.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Absolutely, I mean and it's not even recently.
Speaker 5 (18:43):
This has happened over years of police misconduct, violence, death,
things of that nature.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Absolutely, And so you know what happens is just sticking
with the example that we used earlier in Los Angeles,
where there's video evidence of gross police misconduct, a blatant
disregard for human life. And I would challenge anybody listening
(19:14):
to my voice to reimagine Rodney King as a dog.
See all these police officers beating a dog. How upset
does that make you? And does that make you more
upset if it's a dog, because then you need to
search inside yourself if it's a dog, do you demand
or do you understand why there were riots because these
(19:36):
police officers got off or now you know, do you
does it make sense? Because I would I would bet
that that is the truth. And that's all we want
is just when these high profile cases happen. I'm gonna
get you cue, when these high profile cases happen where
all the cameras are on and we're able to kind
of contribute to the storyline of black people in America,
(19:57):
that what we're doing is we're we're taking advantage of
or there's potentially an opportunity to say black lives do matter,
there is justice in the world, Our lives are worth something,
and when they're taken from us needlessly and senselessly, that
there are consequences. And that's that's really it. So you
(20:20):
can pay out and say, yeah, it was a wrongful debt,
You can do all that sort of stuff. No consequences, justice, justice,
And this is why this cry has been so lowed. Now,
I'm so sorry I had to get that off, but you.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Know, I'm glad you got that off because that was important.
It was actually what you said that woke up something
in me. Sure, Before I move on, I want to
say this man's name, Donald Williams, was the gentleman that
the defense attorney tried to paint as this angry black man, okay, right,
so that the jury and the people watching couldn't lose
(20:52):
sympathy for him. Yeah, the cop was so uncomfortable with
this guy screaming at him that he couldn't pay attention
to the that he was murdering at the time. But
the thing about the dog and the thing about even
him and the trial in general, that sparked something very
very personal for me. And I've not ever shared this
(21:13):
outside of a very small circle. My little brother, Vincent
Barry is here with us, been in my life for
thirty seven thirty thirty five to thirty seven of my
thirty nine years. One of the rare people who were
in my life. We were in each other's lives when
our fathers passed. And I've not shared this part of
(21:36):
my story out loud before, but when my father passed
away after not being in my life for most of
my life, and my mom divorced when I was about
three years old, and that's why Vincent's father meant so
much to me, because he took up some of that
responsibility along with you know, William Reverie and John Reese.
(22:00):
I wept like as aggressively as you can cry, with
as much emotion, with as much feeling for loss, and
my older brother came home and didn't understand why I
was crying, and when he found out, he was angry
(22:25):
because my older brother watched my mom be abused about
my father, and in his mind, my father did not
deserve for me to be hurt, for me to weep,
for me to feel his absence, so an effort to
make me not feel that way, my brother told me
(22:45):
every bad thing that he could possibly think about my father.
And when you were talking about how people will respond
if it was a dog, and you were talking about
the way that they criminally lies and the way they
want to make George Floyd look like he doesn't deserve justice.
(23:08):
He does not deserve for you to feel sorry for him.
He's not your martyr, as Candice Owns so proudly proclaimed
on the internet, you have to make him seem less worth,
less worthy, rather of sympathy and justice and fair, sound
(23:31):
minded people to think something wrong happened. So let's paint
the worst possible picture of him. Because the whole world
is crying, the whole world is angry, and people are
in the streets. Oh my god. We have to stop this.
We have to show these people that the man that
was murdered must be less than that, less than a dog.
(23:55):
Even so, he doesn't deserve your anger and your tears.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
There's I'm gonna get the quote wrong, but there's something
that once upon a time Malcolm X said, and it
had to do with so I'm gonna paraphrase, but it
had to do with having to keep your composure as
a black man while fighting for an equitable go at
(24:25):
life in the United States of America, because at the
moment at which you lose your composure, you lose your support,
your sympathy, you know, everything like that empathy from other folks.
And I think that it illuminates just how tricky it
is to just have an even playing field, no advantages,
(24:47):
nothing like that. And that's it's just so interesting, how like,
why in the world will be born into this world.
It's such a weird thing, isn't it. Anyway, that's just
me if you're just tuning in the civic side around
your host Ramsa's Josh, they called me q Warden.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
That just so happens to be my name.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Yes, indeed, a special guest in the building today, Patrick C. Brown,
my committee member from the NAACP Political Action Committee, and
we're going to talk about some voter suppression initiatives in
just a minute. But first to piggyback off of what
(25:26):
we were talking about a bit earlier. You know, I
saw something this week and forget it. I web too, man,
I cry all the time. I'll be honest with you.
I'm a human being and I feel stuff. You know,
it just happens. I have a beating heart in my chest,
(25:48):
and I love my family. And if you're listening to
my voice is where does it sounds? I love you too.
I want you to do well. I want us all
to do well. That's just how I look at the world.
If you don't like it, sue me. But I have
a beating hard I feel things. I've always been that way.
You know this queue.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
You have always been that way, sir, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Man, And I love loving I do. I think it's
the right way to be. But unfortunately the capacity to
feel often catches up with me, and so the story
I'm about to share, I won't be able to convey
(26:28):
the experience, the emotion the right way because I understand
that if you're listening to my voice, you may not
have the same context. The world may not look and
feel the same way to you. But I do want
to try to put you in my shoes when I
saw this video. So, as you mentioned earlier in the show, Cue,
we do have to make sure that we're engaging using
(26:51):
our social media, and we have to make sure that
we're following the news so that we know what to
discuss when we do our show. So this past week,
which by the way, rest in peace. Nipsey Hustle. There
was the anniversary of his passing. As someone who was
born in California, that hit close to home. So I
(27:12):
have to say that.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Way Compton, California to be exact.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
But you know, love what he stood for. He was
a good guy. I was able to meet him a
few times, shake his hand and hang out with him.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
Anyway.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Saw video his video was of I want to paint
the picture for you and feel free to check out
on our Instagram or our Facebook. Just search at Civic Cipher.
You'll be able to see the video or yourself. But
what it is is it's a police camera dash camera
and there's a man standing next to a U haul truck.
(27:46):
The man is have you seen this?
Speaker 4 (27:48):
I say, I saw on Instagram yet Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Okay, so it for me was heartbreaking. I'll explain why.
So the man standing next to his U haul truck,
he was driving the truck. I guess he was trying
to exit the freeway. This was in Arkansas. Yeah, it
looks like so he's trying to exit the freeway. He
kind of misses the turn a little bit, does a
little squiggle or swivel, swerve or something like that. It's
(28:13):
a big truck and the police see him get behind
and pull him over. So he's on the kind of
shoulder of the highway and this is where the dash
can picks him. I'm gonna talk you through this because
it's important. The man is wearing dreads, and he's got
a beard. He's an adult man standing there, and the
officer is.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Talking to him, an adult black man indeed.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
And you know, there's another thing that happens where people say,
you know, if you just do what the officer says,
you know, blah blah blah, you know, this sort of thing.
And I think that that further illuminates how remember you
mentioned earlier, Patrick that some people will be able to
interact with the police and kind of push their tongue
all the way out. Those people often tend to be
(28:57):
less melanated, and the police will just kind of keep
their composure. But when this man in this video and
pretty much every video I've ever seen, demands you know,
some dignity, you know, the minimum e modicum of respect,
(29:20):
it's seen as threatening. It's seen as like well that
Malcolm X quote that I paraphrased earlier, that you know,
he's losing his composure and now all of a sudden,
the empathy and the sympathy flies out the window. So anyway,
in this video, the officers like, hey, man, if you
had anything to drink, you're on drugs, anything like that.
And the guy's like, no, not at all. He's like, well,
you look a little nervous to me. And he's like, yeah,
(29:43):
I'm nervous.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Of course, I look a little nervous, sir.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
And there's a police officer.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
I'm in Arkansas. Yeah, I'm black. I'm pulled over by police.
Have you been watching the news for the past for.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Ever one hundred years?
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (29:57):
So anyway, so the officer takes exception to that, and
you can see his temperature change in the video, and
the officer says, well, listen, man, let me search the vehicle,
you know, And the guy's like, listen, man, I don't
give you permission. I don't wi. Yeah, yeah, there's no reason,
(30:18):
nothing that you've ascertained from this interaction would warrant you've
escalating it and going into the vehicle. I had places
to be. I'm sure you have a real crime to fight,
you know. If I swerved, you know, we can talk
about that. But anything else, you know, you know, unless
you have a real reason, you know, and this is
kind of the The energy that was in the video
(30:38):
wasn't anything like, no one was yelling raising her voice.
The guy was very respectful, but he was kind of
standing his ground like, no, that's not fair. Which again,
anyone with a little less melanin would have been able
to get that off, no problem, or it wouldn't have
even come up in the interaction. The police wouldn't have
initiated it. So the officer says, well, you know, we
(31:02):
can wait here until to like get the dogs out.
Don't say anything, you don't say anything. You we can
wait here until we get the dogs out. Actually, I
want to say it. They'll get the dogs out, and
then they'll say the dog indicated that we smell narcotics,
and then they'll go in the truck. Anyway, that's what
they do. That's been my experience.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
The dog creates probable.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Cause exactly even if the dog doesn't because there's nothing there.
But we'll tell that story just a second. I went
to this is my belief. I don't I don't know
that for sure.
Speaker 5 (31:31):
But it's beyond belief with me that you know, the
courts have ruled several times over that a police officer
may use deception and to further their investigation. So you know,
I've been around police dogs. I've you know, I've I've
seen them work. I don't know a damn thing about them.
So I don't know what indicator or what clue or
(31:53):
whatever it is. So the police officer is going to say,
all right, the dog indicated that there's drugs in the
car or whatnot, and so now I have probable.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Cause to do whatever they want.
Speaker 5 (32:04):
Yeah, and what they're and you know, I mean you
when you kind of follow the line of thinking, it's like,
now I want you to react to now give me
an excuse to then feel that I am unsafe that
now I can you know, handcuff, you stack the charges,
whatever comes next and that and you know, to that video.
And I think one thing for the folks who are
(32:24):
listening to understand is that you know his the I'll
go with my interpretation. My interpretation is that this officer
wanted subservience. And this man was being a man. I mean,
he wasn't getting outside of himself, he wasn't getting no
(32:45):
hostile talking funny to me, boy, exactly. It was, why
are you pulling me over? Valid question? Then it's like
we want to search up nah don I want you
guy to search my car? And now it's I could
do like I can see the temperture chain just as
you where. It's like, okay, so now you're gonna make
me work and I'm gonna make you hurt.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
So with that in mind, this is the part where
it became very troubling to me. So the man who
with the dreadlocks not the officer, pulls out his phone
and he calls his father. Just so happens to be
the case that his father is a circuit judge and.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
They're practicing attorney.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Sure, yeah, I forgot about that. So you can see
him speaking to his father on the phone. He's holding
the phone. It's not a video call, nothing like that.
The officer asks him to lean over the front of
the police vehicle so so they can check his person
or whatever, and and the man is telling his father, okay,
(33:51):
they're they're leaning me over the hood of the car.
They're patting me down. And then the officer grabs his
right arm and puts it behind his back, and he says,
is okay, they're they're holding my right arm, and then
when they grab his left arm, he loses it. Not
he doesn't do anything crazy, but emotionally he loses it.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
He breaks because he loses it. Sounds like he went off.
He did not. He got emotional emotional thank you because
emotionally but heyings.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
And what he said was, they're arresting me, daddy. And
even now saying that out loud.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
The way that our sons would say it to us.
It's not our grown selves, but our children would say
it like that.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Could you imagine.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Ada Naya Grayson Trey. They would say it to us
like that, they're arresting me, daddy. Daddy with a full
understanding that he's done nothing and the fear being used
against him. Just let us and we'll let you go,
(35:01):
even though you haven't done anything and we have no
probable cost to search or arrest you. But we know
you're afraid, we know you're uncomfortable, and that you would
rather just go, so just let us do what we want.
Don't have any dignity, so don't even have any submit
to us, and we'll let you go. And in that
(35:24):
space of understanding that he'd done nothing to deserve what
was happening to him, and that all of his fears
and that nervousness they spoke of justified in that moment
he broke.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
I would you know, and this is not strictly relevant,
but I want to say it. I had to bury
my father, so I don't have anybody I could call.
(36:00):
That means that I'm the person who gets that call
and it's inconceivable. They're arresting me. Daddy weeping, wailing, grown son,
bullbeard dreadlocks. And then you can hear him on the
(36:22):
phone saying, why would you arrest my sons.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
With the terror?
Speaker 5 (36:27):
I mean, I'm gonna I'm gonna make an assumption that,
you know, considering his father's background, he's well aware of
exactly of what could happen. And then you know, I
think you know we're all parents here. Imagine that your
son is in is in a situation and there is
(36:48):
nothing you can do it. But listen, that's the thing.
It's not it's not your home. You're having dinner and
you discover something half to my child. But now you
get your child is.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
So you and I have been doing this show for
some time. Real quick, I want to shout out hot
ninety eight three and Tucson because this is where we're
debuting in Tucson today. But yeah, go out much love
(37:26):
to Tucson as well. But we've been doing the show
for a while and we were able to share this
story Once upon a time. It sounds very similar to
the story that I just shared, so I want to
go through it briefly so that if you're listening to
my voice, you understand that there's a little bit of
context here and a personal experience that's it's almost identical.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Yeah, one of many experiences, but yes, specific when this
one is specific.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Yes, So in short, what happened was, once upon a time,
Q and I flew to Miami to pick up a
very nice Porsche. You purchased a Porsche for his fiance
and we were going to drive it back on a
road trip. The car was for the one that she
(38:18):
wanted was in Florida, so we had to fly there
to get it. We're driving back, beautiful road trip, We're
seeing all these states and having a good time. Cars
brand new. We get into Mississippi and you really wanted
to get out of Mississippi. We were in Alabama first
and then we went to Mississippi, so.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi in that order.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
Yeah, and you're running like the gauntlet, yeah, man.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
And it was night and this was at the height
of what we've been dealing with. So we're seeing signs, flags.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Yeah, the Confederate flags, all that stuff, and a lot
of the Trump trucks and all that sort of stuff,
and not not like in a way to support Trump,
but in a way to intimidate us. That's how it was. Really,
That's the way I remember it, because I've seen Trump
trucks in where I live in Arizona, and it's just
people were proud of Donald Trump, I guess, but these
were specifically to intimidate, like they would be alongside like
(39:17):
other signs and verbiage and you know, uh we we
What did they say, like we killed rap music? Something
like that. Had had the word kill and rap music
in the same sentence on a sign with a Donald
Trump flag.
Speaker 5 (39:31):
It was like, whoa not not to take this take
this off another direction? But what does it say that
a political candidate, a president's name, former president's name can
be used in that fashion. I mean, I as involved
with as I've been in politics, I cannot think of
you know, I don't remember somebody being able to say like,
(39:52):
you know, Reagan nineteen eighty four, and you know, as
as a form to like, you know, as a verbal
you know, punches.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
Yeah, it's crazy, man, you know.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
I mean, I love Barack Obama, but yeah, I'll have
a sticker.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
On my car, yeah, or a flag on my yard.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
Yeah, I mean I was.
Speaker 5 (40:09):
I got a T shirt that I wear, you know,
when I march at the MLK Parade, and that's about
the only time it gets out of the closet.
Speaker 4 (40:15):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
So anyway, we're in Mississippi. We're almost out of there.
We're almost in the Louisiana queues.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Driving it's three o'clock in the morning. It's dark dark,
it's no street lights, dark moon light. That's all in
the cut Records dot com. We was out there dark.
Then those trees are real big.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Oh yeah, the tree and the trees are so tall
the moonlight you can't see anything. So what happens is
in Arizona, there's grooves in the in the road that
will wake you up if you're drifting one side or another.
But in Mississippi, the grooves are actually the white line.
The line is the groove.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Yes, the grooves are not on the side of the
road like here, they're in the they divide the lane
the group.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Yes, so if so, if your tire touches it just
a little bit, it'll make that loud noise. And so
that happened, and the police were able to hear it,
and so they get behind us and they pull us over.
And you know, as you mentioned, like being able to
only listen to what's happening. So what happens is the
police come to the car and they start talking to Q.
(41:25):
He was driving at the time. The car has a
paper license plate, it's a new Porsche, and uh, you know,
just interacting with Q, he says, no, sir, I've never
drank alcohol in my life, never tried a drugs, never
done a drug in my life. And that's something that's
true of me as well. I've never me Ramses has
(41:46):
never also never tried a drug or never done out.
But the thing is to be able to say that
and meaning that's the truth, you know. So there was
nothing beyond that. And of course I'm talking to Q.
You can tell, okay, this person is not intoxicated, it's
not inebriated. There wasn't a huge swear. It was just
about maybe one second or half of a second worth
(42:09):
of a noise. And then we explained, well, you know,
we're driving to Arizona. We didn't know that the lines
are there, and that's just kind of a thing. We're
changing radio, whatever was happening. I don't even know if
we said anything like that, but early on they were
able to determine that there was no inebriation in the
equation and so and so that should have been the
end of it. Yeah, but would you mind stepping out
(42:32):
of the car? Police are so now Q has to
get out of the car. So what do I do.
I go into panic mode and I pull out my phone,
but I don't record it because they're gonna do whatever
they're gonna do to Q. I know they're going to
do it to me, So I go to Facebook Live.
The problem is that I can't see Q out the
back of the car because those police lights are so bright.
(42:53):
So I'm just filming and my phone is about to
die because we were jamming the outcast all through the
you know, the South. We're like, just you know, that's
just kind of yeah, man, we're on our level. So
so what happens is, uh, you know, just like I predicted,
the officer comes back to the car and asks for
my ID. Now I'm still on Facebook Live, and now
(43:14):
I have a good number of folks that have been
able to see. Oh there's police sirens. And remember the
climate in the country at the time.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
And remember what time it was.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
Yes, it's late at night, so it's real early out
here in Phoenix.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
No even here it was late though. That's what made
it even more scary, Like it's three there, it's midnight here,
one o'clock here, Okay.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Something like that. Yeah, so there's hundreds of people looking
at this, right. And then the last thing that happens
is he gives me back my ID and he says,
can you step out of the car?
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Police?
Speaker 1 (43:43):
And I'm like uh, and then my phone dies. So
everybody that's watching that now, these people are crying, These
people are calling calling calls terrified. You know, all of
my friends, every my family, everyone was so worried and
that so that speaks to that helplessness that you experience
when there's nothing you can do because you're on the
(44:03):
other side of a phone call. Anyway, they pull us
out of the car, and I'm giving you the quick
and dirty version of the story. But once they pull
us out of the car, they say, can we search
the vehicle? And we say, yes, please search the vehicle
because a we're not moving a house full of stuff
(44:23):
like the Gentleman was in Arkansas. It's a brand new car,
so there's nothing to search. I think we might have
had a backpack each.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
And we don't want to start an adversarial relationship with
a highway patrol officer and a state trooper or a
sheriff at three o'clock in the morning in Mississippi.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Sure out of state boom.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
So, Yeah, we know our rights, but no, we're trying
to get home to our baby.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
We would rather not upset you right now.
Speaker 4 (44:49):
Well, I mean here's the thing with rights.
Speaker 5 (44:50):
I mean, knowing your rights and being able to live
to make this case can be two different things. Yes,
what in that situation, it's you, it's the cops, and
there's nobody else.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
Sir. You can search the car, my shoes, my bag,
this hat, I have on my pockets. What you need. Listen, man,
I got the spare tire compartment. Look at my ears
because this is a hybrid. There's a compartment that you
might not know about. You can check that if you
look under there. It's right there, sir.
Speaker 4 (45:19):
You got some unopened waters, yes, please.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
So listen. So what they do is they get the dog,
and you know, they after he gives the flashlight and
does the whole thing, they get the dog. So we're
waiting out on the side of the road terrified. I'm terrified.
Q was fortunately playing a little cooler because he had
a little bit more information than I did because he
was out talking to the officers already. But I was
terrified because why in the world do I need to
(45:43):
get out of the car? And I challenged them later.
I was like, you know, if Q was a sixty
five year old, privileged corporate executive driving the same car
and I was his, you know wife, a forty five
year old white female, blond hair, blue eyed, would we
be standing on the side of the road for two
and a half hours for five minutes dogs to search
the car, you know? Or would the story have gone
(46:05):
any different? And that was my charge to them anyway,
bring the dogs out. And you wouldn't believe me if
I told you so. Yeah, the dog indicated the president's
the presence of narcotics in the car, so we're going
to have to do a full search of the vehicle. Whoa, okay,
we just got the car yesterday. And and then long
(46:28):
story short, the dog searches the car, and then he
searches the car, searches all puts it, puts the blue
gloves on, goes through and everything like that. And then
what he told us was that, you know, if the
dog's nose is so sensitive that if somebody had a
joint in their pocket and brushed up against the carr
(46:51):
or brushed against the car in a grocery store parking lot.
And remember we're driving down the highway at seventy five
eighty miles an hour across states plural since the last
time we stopped, because you know, those things are pretty
good on gas. It was a hybrid. So but it
just seems so like such a reach in it. And
that's where my you know, black folks have historically had
(47:15):
a deep distrust of the whole judicial system, the political system, and.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
Of course.
Speaker 4 (47:22):
On the history behind Oh yes, yeah, of course.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
But it was so it wasn't a surprise, but it
was kind of reaffirmed in our interaction that Okay, you
just made that up. That doesn't that doesn't even make
any sense. First off, no one leaned against the car
was on a car lot, and then we had it
and we've been with it ever since, and no one
we've been around even does that. There's no way, you know,
and someone leans the How likely is it that someone
(47:45):
leaned against this car in a grocery store parking lot
with a join in their pocket and then the smell
stayed on the fender.
Speaker 4 (47:55):
Or whatever.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Right, So it just it's so outlandish and outrageous that
it again and further at least told me that the
mistrust that I have of mistrust is too strong a word.
I don't want to I don't want to, yeah, to
really believe a face value what an officer says to me,
especially if it sounds a little just it doesn't really
(48:17):
sound feasible. I kind of know what I'm looking at
when I'm looking at it. And in that instance, in particular,
I don't believe it wasn't black and white thing as
much as it was a policing of a black people
thing because the officer, I want to be fair, the officer.
What we found out later was we might have been half.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
Black, both of those guys were black. And the reason
why that's such a massive reveal is, once again, we
were in Mississippi. This is a sheriff and the state trooper.
It's three o'clock in the morning, and in Mississippi, the
Mississippi draw sounds like the Mississippi draw.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
Doesn't respect your race. It's so heavy.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
So before we can see them, because remember flashlights and
the big bright light on the police vehicles, we can't see.
We can just hear. So what Rams just spoke to before,
there was some relief on my part because when I
got out of the car and looked and saw someone
that looks like you, I didn't think I was gonna
die anymore.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
But that doesn't mean we're out of the woods at all,
you know. It just okay, maybe it's not as mission
critical as we once thought. So again, if you're just
tuning in to Civic Sipher, I'm you host Rams' job.
They called me q Ward and our guest today Patrick C. Brown,
(49:40):
a member of the NAACP Political Action Committee, and I
do want to talk about these voter suppression initiatives. So
real quick, let's let's frame what that is.
Speaker 5 (49:57):
Okay, So let's let's let's talk about I mean, voting.
Voting has had a very interesting history in our country.
And you know, I guess the frame it. I want
to take us back to the start, you know, to
the founding of America. So when you go back to
you know, George Washington, you know that era of time,
(50:17):
not everybody could vote. So our country has never been
all in on democracy and on you know, voting, which
is you know, the you say, the essence of democracy.
And so originally to vote, you had to be a
white male and you had to own land. Yeah, so
you can think, you know, if you're not a white
male and you don't own land, then you don't vote.
(50:39):
Now we can fast forward, you know, through through the
years and eventually, you know, all white men could vote,
and then you know, we said, okay, you know, you
don't have to own you know, land, things like that. Eventually,
you know, women would get the vote, because that wouldn't
be intil like the nineteen twenties. Actually, you know, African
American men would get to vote before any women for
(50:59):
the Native American community. And so as you can you know,
as you go through this, you can see that voting
has always been an issue now here's what is so
crazy about voting. We live in a country where we
desperately want people to be involved in their communities and
(51:20):
politics things like that, but we also make it so
difficult to do. But what's even worse is we gaslight
and we tell people, you know, your vote matters, voting
is important, but then we tell them like, you know,
but then you know, we say, you know, the vote
is so important, we make.
Speaker 4 (51:36):
It very, very difficult to actually do.
Speaker 5 (51:39):
And so what we're seeing basically post the twenty twenty
election is that you know, one political party y'all probably
know I'm talking about the Republican Party is and this
is not just Arizona's across the country. You know, Georgia,
Kansas just passed and crazy, but we'll talk just about Arizona.
Is that with this election, they're now trying to change
(52:02):
the game. And so a couple couple of items like
this could be a whole show in its own bout.
I'll keep it pretty simple here in Arizona, we have
had we've enjoyed mail in ballots and now the acronym
is pebble. That's you may have heard that, but it's
it's mail in ballot and we've had that since like
about ninety six, and so it's pretty straightforward. You sign
(52:26):
up on the permanent early voting list. That's what Pebble
stands for. And basically you get a ballot for every
election as long as you you know, don't move and
don't update your your information that if you know, if
you move and you update your information, your ballot will
find you. And this is for federal elections, state elections,
local elections, all that.
Speaker 4 (52:45):
And it's worked really well because.
Speaker 5 (52:47):
About eighty percent of the folks in Arizona love Pebble
and this is like across party lines. Everybody likes having
that convenience because you can sit at home, you can
fill out your ballot, you can pop it in the mail,
you can take it to know the voting center, you
can take it to you know, the county Recorder's office,
popping in their dropbox, and you're good. A lot in
the last couple of years technologies and even better, you
(53:09):
get a little text message when your ballot goes out.
Once you fill out your ballot, you know, it gets
received a text message, Hey, we've got your ballot. Your
vote has been captured. All these great things but what's
interesting now is suddenly folks are having issues or I'll
say the Republicans are having issues with mail vote by mail,
(53:32):
and so we're the first thing we're saying is we're
seeing a bill that wants to take the permanent out
of permanent early voting list.
Speaker 4 (53:39):
So how now the bill is?
Speaker 5 (53:41):
And I don't have to pull up my cheat sheet
here the bill is, I want to say, it is
SPH fourteen eighty five. And if you' all on Google,
if if I'm wrong, you guys will I'm sure we'll
let Ramses know and I apologize. But like I said,
I just want to get to the heart of information.
So with this is how this would work is if
(54:02):
this bill passes, and it's currently floating around in the
state legislature. So as of today, I believe that it
was supposed to go up for a floor vote in
the House today, a couple of amendments to be added
to the bill, and so ultimately what happened is that
that bill is going to be pushed to next week.
(54:22):
So because they've broken for you know, because it's a
good Friday, they're not gonna do anything. But with Pebble,
what happens is is that if you don't utilize your
mail in ballot, meaning if you receive your ballot and
you do.
Speaker 4 (54:32):
Not mail it back, then you can be removed from
the list.
Speaker 5 (54:36):
And so now people may think that's not a big deal,
but what a lot of people do is their ballots
come to their home, they fill out the ballot, they
take it and drop it off at the polling place
on election day or a couple of days out, or
they'll take it to the counter recorder. So if you
do that, you could then lose being off with pebble.
And what's really scary about this is people may not
(54:56):
realize this until it's too late. Sure, And why this
is I think a big this is really going to
impact negatively, you know, black and brown communities, is that
we already have an issue with having enough polling places
or enough working equipment. Now I would I want to
you know, I want to be fair that in previous
elections we've been fortunate that there's been a good sense
(55:18):
of equity. But you know what, if you have a
lot of people voting, it's gonna be lines and all
thing goes with it. So now, if you don't use
that you likehood, you may not vote, and you may
not even know that you know, you've been kicked off
the list.
Speaker 1 (55:34):
And this is just one.
Speaker 2 (55:35):
Oh, this is yeah, there's there's there's many, there's many yes.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
So here's the thing that I think it's important that
it helps frame this, and that's that people need to
understand that the less votes are, the less voting that
actually takes place, the more it favors the Republican party
historically speaking. And so the Republicans have an interest in
suppressing votes across the board because the less people that vote,
(56:02):
the more people that vote, the more we're a democratic
leaning country. It's just the voting system favors Republicans, right.
Speaker 5 (56:10):
And when it comes down to it is you know,
in the hear and now Republicans when or they do
better when they electorate.
Speaker 1 (56:18):
As small as possible boom.
Speaker 5 (56:20):
So you know, you could say common sense would be
if people aren't voting for you, that means they don't
like your ideas, they don't like your policies, so it
would make sense to them adjust what the people. Instead,
they're going the opposite direction, saying no, what we're gonna
do is we're gonna shrink that down. And so that
means people of color, the elderly, the folks are disabled,
(56:40):
all the people who benefit this are not going to
not vote.
Speaker 1 (56:45):
So and because this is just one example of this,
and there are many others, I want to talk about
what folks can do to challenge is to combat this
or where can they go? Where's they're more inform How
can folks keep up with you, support you, follow you,
strand you know the much larger movement.
Speaker 5 (57:06):
Okay, so I'm gonna I'm gonna give a shout out
to a really great organization because I think this is
probably the easiest for y'all listening. There's a group called
Progress Arizona. I'm working with those guys. They're amazing. They're
in the trenches every day with this stuff. I mean,
they're at the capitol. I would follow Progress Arizona. They're
on Instagram, they're on Facebook, they're on Twitter, and they
also you know, they put this stuff out. They're also
(57:28):
on YouTube. The YouTube channel is really great because they
do they do a quick, like two minute video of
all the things happening in a legislature each week, very digestible. Now,
as for these type of bills, because of where we're at,
you need to contact your state legislator.
Speaker 4 (57:43):
You need to call that person up now.
Speaker 5 (57:45):
If you don't know who it is, I'll just go
to azledge dot org and then at that point you
just need to type in your information.
Speaker 1 (57:52):
I'll tell you know who's representing.
Speaker 5 (57:54):
Who's representing you, call that person, email that person because
at this point now they're getting to the stage where
the vote's gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (58:01):
All right, So this will become especially useful to black
folks if you are a non black person, an ally
to black people, because in those spaces, perhaps your voice
may carry a little bit more weight. And so if
you've been wondering what more can you do to support
(58:21):
your African American brothers and sisters, your Latino brothers and sisters,
there's an opportunity here for you to reach out to
your legislator and take action against these voter suppresion initiatives.
But that's about all the time we have for this week.
Once again, want to thank you for tuning in Pacific Cipher.
I'm your host rams this job.
Speaker 2 (58:38):
They call me q Ward.
Speaker 1 (58:40):
Be sure to hit the website Civiccipher dot com to
download this. In any previous shows, please submit topics, anything
you want us to discuss, follow our social media at
Civic Cipher and don't forget to donate if you can.
And until next week, y'all, peace,
Welcome to another episode of Civic Cipher. I'm your host,
rams is Jah.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
They call me q Ward, but my name is Quentin,
but Quentin is you know, not easy to say. People
call me Quentin and Quincy, so I just go with Q.
So when you hear q Ward, it's not the stage name,
it's my actual initial and last name. I just want
the people to know that I wasn't trying to be cool.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
And uh, you know, today we're back to talk to you,
hopefully about some some things that we can do to
make the world a little bit.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Better, safer, more equitable. You know, in true to form,
We're going to have our conversations about things that are
going on in the world, as we typically do here
on Civic Cipher. But the thing is today we have
a special guest in the building with us. This is
somebody that I've really wanted to come up on the
(00:59):
show for a long time, and he's such a busy person.
I've heard him speak a handful of times, enough times
to make me wish i've heard him. I was able
to hear him speak more, and it just so happens
to be the case that we both are on the
NAACP's Political Action Committee. And so this is a person
(01:21):
that's been it's been a long time coming being able
to plug in with such a profound thinker and speaker.
And I'm sure there's a whole list of accolades. I
would love to hear all about him. But Patrick C.
Brown is with us today, So welcome to the show.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
Yo, thanks for having me.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
I mean, you make me sound like, you know, I
need a book deal, a publicist or something. I'm just
like I like to keep thinking. So well, I was
trying and roll in silence. I try and you know,
you know, speak my truth and you know, get people
to think about stuff.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
So thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Absolutely absolutely, Well, this is the place to have the
types of conversations that we are going to have to
and so I appreciate you. And then a little later
on in the show, we're gonna have to talk a
little bit about some of the voters suppression initiatives that
have taken center stage and you know, the the legislature
(02:16):
and so forth, and I think that you're perhaps a
bit more familiar with the goings on in that arena
than either me or Q, and so we would love
to hear your thoughts on that and uh, of course
educate folks on what we can do to empower ourselves
and fight against those voter suppression initiatives. But first order
of business, you know, big news this week is the
(02:42):
trial of His name doesn't even deserve to be said,
but I have to say it, so you know what
I'm talking about. His name is Derek Shaven, Shaven something
like something like that. This is the officer who has
uh been tried, uh try, he's being tried for murder, right,
(03:07):
and the person who was responsible for for snuffing the
life of George Floyd out. Now, be honest, you you
probably know a little bit more about what's going on
with the trial. Q. So how about you? Unfortunately? Yeah,
so so talk talk me through what's happened.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
So can we break down the charges?
Speaker 5 (03:28):
I know that's I think that that really sends the
message home to like, you know, what, what what this
man did?
Speaker 4 (03:34):
I mean?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah, absolutely, And before we get to the specific charger,
I want people to understand why I said unfortunately, because
that might seem obvious, right, it's a trial of a
black man that was murdered. You know, maybe that's what
people thought I meant, But unfortunately, because watching the trial
causes you to relive and re experience the trauma that
(03:57):
all of us, I think across the world collectively experienced
last year when George Floyd was murdered, and voluntary trauma
is not really I don't really subscribe except because of
what we do. My professional responsibility means you have to.
(04:18):
One of us needs to be paying attention specifically to
what's going on with this trial. And I have to
be honest, I wish it was Ramses because Ramses is
the hopeful, optimistic side of this coin that we are
and unfortunately, the more progress we make, the more we
(04:42):
realize that we have so much further to go. And
part of this trial for the murder of George Floyd
with Officer Derek Chauvin, and I'm not sure that I'm
pronouncing his name incorrectly as you listen to the defense,
(05:05):
and you think that they were trying to prove the
guilt of George Floyd instead of the innocence of their
own client. And far too often in this country that's
the case. There's a black victim of violence by far
(05:31):
too often a white officer, and the defense spends most
of their resources on shining the light on the worst
parts of this victim's life, an effort to justify and
or sway emotionally the jury of quote unquote peers. So
(05:57):
it's a hard trial to experience, to watch, to pay
attention to, because there's this lingering feeling of mistrust with
me personally, where I'm like, justice won't be served here,
and I really don't like that. That's how I feel.
But I've seen this movie a lot of times, and
(06:19):
I sit and wait for the post credit scene, like
a Marvel movie, waiting for the waiting for the good
part to happen or that can't be it, And far
too often there's no post credit scene. The movie goes
off the credits roll, this over another person that wasn't
(06:39):
found guilty or even when found guilty, right, because even
once a person is convicted, they have to be sentenced.
The sentences are really liked relatively, you know what I mean.
And sometimes you know, the state or the city or
the government even find just reason to press causes, I mean,
(07:02):
to press to press charges even when we have video evidence.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
I want to say something. You know, there's a you
know when when in Ferguson a few years ago, there
was this similar to what you said. There was this
almost this effort to make Mike Brown seem like he
(07:32):
was this thug gang member whatever, as though that warrants
his death or that justifies the office, the fear that
the officer experiences, and these are supposed to be the
brave even you know, and so forth, and far too often,
especially coming from an environment like you know, the one
(07:53):
that I was born into again, which is Compton, California,
I'm able to recognize that, you know, people are these
are most of the time, they're just normal people, and
it's just very unfortunate to see that. You know. The
the defense is, well, let's let's make the the person
(08:18):
who can't say their piece, that the person who's lost
their life look like they deserve to die, you know,
or that that that the the the murder was was justified.
And I think that further reinforces this idea that black
lives don't matter, which has kind of been a part
(08:43):
of the conversations or really a part of the tapestry
of this country since inception. You know, we're just disposable,
and you know, that's just kind of what happens. It's sad,
but you know, probably deserved.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
And what's what's sickening about about this this trial? And
I mean we could we could we go down the list.
I mean, I mean I'm not I'm not gonna ask
anybody pull out any IDs. I think I'm probably maybe
the older of the three of us here. And I
mean for me, you know, I clearly remember the Rodney
King beating. And I mean I was I was what
(09:18):
as high school and watching that on TV and it
was crazy about that is we were supposed to play
in a basketball tournament in California and I got canceled
because of the LA riots and so you know, it
was kind of really interesting seeing just the different attitudes.
You know, my my my Caucasian teammates were mad because
(09:40):
our California trip was done. And why you know why
these be like burning down California. We're supposed to go
to Disneyland, but play.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Ball and all this kind of stuff. We're going to
re Forum.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
You know, it was a pre stable center and everything.
But all my black teammates and myself and our parents,
we just had this look of like, you know this
it's like it's a another day in America.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Sure, but we had we.
Speaker 5 (10:03):
Were hopeful because this stuff has been happening since, you know,
before any of us were here for our grandparents, for
our grandparent grandparents. But we were like, we were hopeful
because we got a video. We're not making this up.
We've got proof. And then they all got off. You know.
Now they did a federal trial and everything, but ultimately
(10:26):
they never they never really saw the punishment. And what
really just hurts my heart and angers me is the
fact that it's a viable defense to play to all
the racial, racist, white supremacist stereotypes of blout black men
and when you look at some of the stuff for
(10:47):
the witness, because I saw the video of the one,
the one guy that I believe he's the MT, the brother,
and he was and they were playing like, were you angry?
You know, we're you know, you know you you called
you know, I don't know, I don't know what the
rules are for what I can you know about the
language I'm gonna play. I'm gonna go generated, but but
you know you called him all these derogatory terms and whatnot.
(11:10):
And my thing is, if you're watching somebody die, you
gotta be a dead human being inside not to be angry. Sure,
I mean, I watched that video because I said, you know,
I had I had to. I watched it because I said,
I had to be a witness, a witness to this
man's death, you know. And I was just angry. So
(11:34):
I can imagine being there live seeing it happen.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Yeah, and you it's your present for right.
Speaker 5 (11:42):
And seeing yourself in that And and I think, you
know what, what I've tried to explain to I think,
you know, white people, folks who are not less, are
less likely to experience this type of violence, is that
you have to understand that when this happens for Freddie Gray,
for you know, you know, Oscar Grant, for George Floyd,
(12:03):
we see that could easily be us. The three of
us sitting here could easily be George Floyd. And then
you take it a step further. I think of you know,
of you know, the young kids like Tamir Rice. I've
got eleven year old son, and you know, I see,
you know, Trayvon Martin. I see my son's eyes. I
(12:25):
have two sons, you know, I see you know, Tamir
Rice's eyes. I think you know, if my boys go
down just down to the end of the block, we'll
play basketball. Is somebody gonna not see an eleven year
old and an eight year old? Are they gonna see
grown men?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yeah, and grown black men.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
Grown black men, and take their lives.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Or put them in a position to where they have
to justify their existence or face death, you know, because
some folks they might not engage directly, but they'll call
the police. Hey, I saw someone walking down the street.
He looks like he doesn't belong here. And then the
police show up. And history has shown us that oftentimes
it's the police that escalate the situation. The police show
up with the weapons. The police show up, you know,
(13:08):
with the capacity to kill. And this is critical.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
I'm sorry because you're you're you're on the right path
of this, but let me throw this in. The police
are capable of not doing that because we see it
happen when the individual is it's not black.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Let's let's go. Let's go to Wisconsin.
Speaker 5 (13:32):
Dude had a semi semi automatic weapon in a highly
charged environment, lots of stuff. You know, you can say,
every indicator of a policeman should be on you know,
read alert. Yet they let him walk by, first of all,
and then when there was you know, somebody got shot
or whatnot, they were able to control themselves. I've witnessed,
(13:55):
you know, especially when I go back to my you know,
my days when I used to go to clubs and
you know when I lived that life and whatnot. Sure,
I've witnessed white dudes say all sorts of stuff to
cops under the influence, call them everything but their name,
and they can show self control. But then, officer, this
(14:16):
is my house. I'm the I'm the homeowner. Why I
need to see somebody? Could you step out, make sure
you show your hands, move slowly.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
And we're going to talk about that. I want you
to keep keep that in mind. We're going to talk
about that when we talk about So there was an
incident that happened in I want to say it was Arkansas.
About how the interactions with police are. They tend to
be very aggressive with when it comes to black males specifically,
but black people and then to a larger extent, all
(14:44):
people of color. I don't want to look past our
Hispanic brothers and sisters in this moment, because I do
recognize that it happens to them as well. Yes, but
before we get there, and I do want to talk
about that at length. You mentioned something, uh and I
thought that it was it was really important to mention
this or to discuss this right now, there's this narrative
(15:10):
that exists on the other side for people that say, well,
this is one person that died at the hands of
a police officer. Of course, there's some bad apples, there's
some people that take it too far, but for the
most part, the policing works. It keeps us safe, right
And I understand that in their reality, that is their truth,
and we have to allow for that. You know, we
(15:31):
have to challenge it, but we have to allow for
it to exist in the first place. And so we
want to establish that first. These people, oftentimes will then
take it a step further, which you know, we will
all agree is pretty flagrant on their part, and they'll say, well,
why aren't you as upset with what's going on in
(15:52):
Chicago where people are murdered all the time, or what
about black on black crime that takes more black lives
quote unquote than police violence, and so forth. And I
think that a lot of times people miss that what
we're trying to do is reshape the narrative, reshape the
value of black life. Because of images were shown on
(16:12):
television and the culture at large, and there's something and
when you were talking about the Rodney King riots in
Los Angeles, which I was there for, that there's something
that a lot of folks don't mention or they don't
really consider, and that's that if there is a quote
(16:36):
black on black crime that takes place, black on black
crime is not a real thing any more than white
on white crime that doesn't exist. You know that you you,
you're around people that look like you. For the most part,
your family members look like you.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
And so you know what I mean, Most crimes in
general are based on proximity. That's it. Color, that's it.
Speaker 5 (16:54):
And you're you're not going to go You're not going
to go clear across town, rob somebody if you can.
Rob's closer to if you need, you know, you need
some convenience and in those situations.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
But you know, this narrative has been established and allowed
to exist and grow and fester to where folks can
kind of hide behind this and say, well, listen, I
don't need to support black lives matter. Of course, all
lives matter, and black people need to figure out what
their values are before they come for our police. We
support our police again, which again is a sensible thing
(17:29):
when you don't know any better. So I don't want
to attack a vacuum right in a vacuum absent all
the rest of the facts. But the thing that I
like to bring up in situations like that is that
if there is a quote black on black crime that happens,
we demand justice, We demand a trial. Usually the person
(17:53):
is found, if the police are doing their job, the
person goes to court as a day in court, and
if there's a conviction, the person has put away. And
all too often what we see with these police shootings
is that they're a high profile so again shaping the
national narrative one way or the other. And what is
(18:16):
infinitely more important is that there is no justice. They're
not even ever really on trial, as you mentioned in
Los Angeles in ninety two.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Sometimes they don't even bring charges.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
I mean, it's rare, it's rare. Do we even get
to the stage many times.
Speaker 5 (18:28):
Sure, we've got we've got incidences happened in Americapa County
that never saw the inside of court.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
Word, yeah, I know, you know the Americopa County.
Speaker 5 (18:36):
You know, attorney's office decline to even pursue any charges.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Absolutely, I mean and it's not even recently.
Speaker 5 (18:43):
This has happened over years of police misconduct, violence, death,
things of that nature.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Absolutely, And so you know what happens is just sticking
with the example that we used earlier in Los Angeles,
where there's video evidence of gross police misconduct, a blatant
disregard for human life. And I would challenge anybody listening
(19:14):
to my voice to reimagine Rodney King as a dog.
See all these police officers beating a dog. How upset
does that make you? And does that make you more
upset if it's a dog, because then you need to
search inside yourself if it's a dog, do you demand
or do you understand why there were riots because these
(19:36):
police officers got off or now you know, do you
does it make sense? Because I would I would bet
that that is the truth. And that's all we want
is just when these high profile cases happen. I'm gonna
get you cue, when these high profile cases happen where
all the cameras are on and we're able to kind
of contribute to the storyline of black people in America,
(19:57):
that what we're doing is we're we're taking advantage of
or there's potentially an opportunity to say black lives do matter,
there is justice in the world, Our lives are worth something,
and when they're taken from us needlessly and senselessly, that
there are consequences. And that's that's really it. So you
(20:20):
can pay out and say, yeah, it was a wrongful debt,
You can do all that sort of stuff. No consequences, justice, justice,
And this is why this cry has been so lowed. Now,
I'm so sorry I had to get that off, but you.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Know, I'm glad you got that off because that was important.
It was actually what you said that woke up something
in me. Sure, Before I move on, I want to
say this man's name, Donald Williams, was the gentleman that
the defense attorney tried to paint as this angry black man, okay, right,
so that the jury and the people watching couldn't lose
(20:52):
sympathy for him. Yeah, the cop was so uncomfortable with
this guy screaming at him that he couldn't pay attention
to the that he was murdering at the time. But
the thing about the dog and the thing about even
him and the trial in general, that sparked something very
very personal for me. And I've not ever shared this
(21:13):
outside of a very small circle. My little brother, Vincent
Barry is here with us, been in my life for
thirty seven thirty thirty five to thirty seven of my
thirty nine years. One of the rare people who were
in my life. We were in each other's lives when
our fathers passed. And I've not shared this part of
(21:36):
my story out loud before, but when my father passed
away after not being in my life for most of
my life, and my mom divorced when I was about
three years old, and that's why Vincent's father meant so
much to me, because he took up some of that
responsibility along with you know, William Reverie and John Reese.
(22:00):
I wept like as aggressively as you can cry, with
as much emotion, with as much feeling for loss, and
my older brother came home and didn't understand why I
was crying, and when he found out, he was angry
(22:25):
because my older brother watched my mom be abused about
my father, and in his mind, my father did not
deserve for me to be hurt, for me to weep,
for me to feel his absence, so an effort to
make me not feel that way, my brother told me
(22:45):
every bad thing that he could possibly think about my father.
And when you were talking about how people will respond
if it was a dog, and you were talking about
the way that they criminally lies and the way they
want to make George Floyd look like he doesn't deserve justice.
(23:08):
He does not deserve for you to feel sorry for him.
He's not your martyr, as Candice Owns so proudly proclaimed
on the internet, you have to make him seem less worth,
less worthy, rather of sympathy and justice and fair, sound
(23:31):
minded people to think something wrong happened. So let's paint
the worst possible picture of him. Because the whole world
is crying, the whole world is angry, and people are
in the streets. Oh my god. We have to stop this.
We have to show these people that the man that
was murdered must be less than that, less than a dog.
(23:55):
Even so, he doesn't deserve your anger and your tears.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
There's I'm gonna get the quote wrong, but there's something
that once upon a time Malcolm X said, and it
had to do with so I'm gonna paraphrase, but it
had to do with having to keep your composure as
a black man while fighting for an equitable go at
(24:25):
life in the United States of America, because at the
moment at which you lose your composure, you lose your support,
your sympathy, you know, everything like that empathy from other folks.
And I think that it illuminates just how tricky it
is to just have an even playing field, no advantages,
(24:47):
nothing like that. And that's it's just so interesting, how like,
why in the world will be born into this world.
It's such a weird thing, isn't it. Anyway, that's just
me if you're just tuning in the civic side around
your host Ramsa's Josh, they called me q Warden.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
That just so happens to be my name.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Yes, indeed, a special guest in the building today, Patrick C. Brown,
my committee member from the NAACP Political Action Committee, and
we're going to talk about some voter suppression initiatives in
just a minute. But first to piggyback off of what
(25:26):
we were talking about a bit earlier. You know, I
saw something this week and forget it. I web too, man,
I cry all the time. I'll be honest with you.
I'm a human being and I feel stuff. You know,
it just happens. I have a beating heart in my chest,
(25:48):
and I love my family. And if you're listening to
my voice is where does it sounds? I love you too.
I want you to do well. I want us all
to do well. That's just how I look at the world.
If you don't like it, sue me. But I have
a beating hard I feel things. I've always been that way.
You know this queue.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
You have always been that way, sir, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Man, And I love loving I do. I think it's
the right way to be. But unfortunately the capacity to
feel often catches up with me, and so the story
I'm about to share, I won't be able to convey
(26:28):
the experience, the emotion the right way because I understand
that if you're listening to my voice, you may not
have the same context. The world may not look and
feel the same way to you. But I do want
to try to put you in my shoes when I
saw this video. So, as you mentioned earlier in the show, Cue,
we do have to make sure that we're engaging using
(26:51):
our social media, and we have to make sure that
we're following the news so that we know what to
discuss when we do our show. So this past week,
which by the way, rest in peace. Nipsey Hustle. There
was the anniversary of his passing. As someone who was
born in California, that hit close to home. So I
(27:12):
have to say that.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Way Compton, California to be exact.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
But you know, love what he stood for. He was
a good guy. I was able to meet him a
few times, shake his hand and hang out with him.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
Anyway.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Saw video his video was of I want to paint
the picture for you and feel free to check out
on our Instagram or our Facebook. Just search at Civic Cipher.
You'll be able to see the video or yourself. But
what it is is it's a police camera dash camera
and there's a man standing next to a U haul truck.
(27:46):
The man is have you seen this?
Speaker 4 (27:48):
I say, I saw on Instagram yet Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Okay, so it for me was heartbreaking. I'll explain why.
So the man standing next to his U haul truck,
he was driving the truck. I guess he was trying
to exit the freeway. This was in Arkansas. Yeah, it
looks like so he's trying to exit the freeway. He
kind of misses the turn a little bit, does a
little squiggle or swivel, swerve or something like that. It's
(28:13):
a big truck and the police see him get behind
and pull him over. So he's on the kind of
shoulder of the highway and this is where the dash
can picks him. I'm gonna talk you through this because
it's important. The man is wearing dreads, and he's got
a beard. He's an adult man standing there, and the
officer is.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Talking to him, an adult black man indeed.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
And you know, there's another thing that happens where people say,
you know, if you just do what the officer says,
you know, blah blah blah, you know, this sort of thing.
And I think that that further illuminates how remember you
mentioned earlier, Patrick that some people will be able to
interact with the police and kind of push their tongue
all the way out. Those people often tend to be
(28:57):
less melanated, and the police will just kind of keep
their composure. But when this man in this video and
pretty much every video I've ever seen, demands you know,
some dignity, you know, the minimum e modicum of respect,
(29:20):
it's seen as threatening. It's seen as like well that
Malcolm X quote that I paraphrased earlier, that you know,
he's losing his composure and now all of a sudden,
the empathy and the sympathy flies out the window. So anyway,
in this video, the officers like, hey, man, if you
had anything to drink, you're on drugs, anything like that.
And the guy's like, no, not at all. He's like, well,
you look a little nervous to me. And he's like, yeah,
(29:43):
I'm nervous.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Of course, I look a little nervous, sir.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
And there's a police officer.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
I'm in Arkansas. Yeah, I'm black. I'm pulled over by police.
Have you been watching the news for the past for.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Ever one hundred years?
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (29:57):
So anyway, so the officer takes exception to that, and
you can see his temperature change in the video, and
the officer says, well, listen, man, let me search the vehicle,
you know, And the guy's like, listen, man, I don't
give you permission. I don't wi. Yeah, yeah, there's no reason,
(30:18):
nothing that you've ascertained from this interaction would warrant you've
escalating it and going into the vehicle. I had places
to be. I'm sure you have a real crime to fight,
you know. If I swerved, you know, we can talk
about that. But anything else, you know, you know, unless
you have a real reason, you know, and this is
kind of the The energy that was in the video
(30:38):
wasn't anything like, no one was yelling raising her voice.
The guy was very respectful, but he was kind of
standing his ground like, no, that's not fair. Which again,
anyone with a little less melanin would have been able
to get that off, no problem, or it wouldn't have
even come up in the interaction. The police wouldn't have
initiated it. So the officer says, well, you know, we
(31:02):
can wait here until to like get the dogs out.
Don't say anything, you don't say anything. You we can
wait here until we get the dogs out. Actually, I
want to say it. They'll get the dogs out, and
then they'll say the dog indicated that we smell narcotics,
and then they'll go in the truck. Anyway, that's what
they do. That's been my experience.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
The dog creates probable.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Cause exactly even if the dog doesn't because there's nothing there.
But we'll tell that story just a second. I went
to this is my belief. I don't I don't know
that for sure.
Speaker 5 (31:31):
But it's beyond belief with me that you know, the
courts have ruled several times over that a police officer
may use deception and to further their investigation. So you know,
I've been around police dogs. I've you know, I've I've
seen them work. I don't know a damn thing about them.
So I don't know what indicator or what clue or
(31:53):
whatever it is. So the police officer is going to say,
all right, the dog indicated that there's drugs in the
car or whatnot, and so now I have probable.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Cause to do whatever they want.
Speaker 5 (32:04):
Yeah, and what they're and you know, I mean you
when you kind of follow the line of thinking, it's like,
now I want you to react to now give me
an excuse to then feel that I am unsafe that
now I can you know, handcuff, you stack the charges,
whatever comes next and that and you know, to that video.
And I think one thing for the folks who are
(32:24):
listening to understand is that you know his the I'll
go with my interpretation. My interpretation is that this officer
wanted subservience. And this man was being a man. I mean,
he wasn't getting outside of himself, he wasn't getting no
(32:45):
hostile talking funny to me, boy, exactly. It was, why
are you pulling me over? Valid question? Then it's like
we want to search up nah don I want you
guy to search my car? And now it's I could
do like I can see the temperture chain just as
you where. It's like, okay, so now you're gonna make
me work and I'm gonna make you hurt.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
So with that in mind, this is the part where
it became very troubling to me. So the man who
with the dreadlocks not the officer, pulls out his phone
and he calls his father. Just so happens to be
the case that his father is a circuit judge and.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
They're practicing attorney.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Sure, yeah, I forgot about that. So you can see
him speaking to his father on the phone. He's holding
the phone. It's not a video call, nothing like that.
The officer asks him to lean over the front of
the police vehicle so so they can check his person
or whatever, and and the man is telling his father, okay,
(33:51):
they're they're leaning me over the hood of the car.
They're patting me down. And then the officer grabs his
right arm and puts it behind his back, and he says,
is okay, they're they're holding my right arm, and then
when they grab his left arm, he loses it. Not
he doesn't do anything crazy, but emotionally he loses it.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
He breaks because he loses it. Sounds like he went off.
He did not. He got emotional emotional thank you because
emotionally but heyings.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
And what he said was, they're arresting me, daddy. And
even now saying that out loud.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
The way that our sons would say it to us.
It's not our grown selves, but our children would say
it like that.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Could you imagine.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Ada Naya Grayson Trey. They would say it to us
like that, they're arresting me, daddy. Daddy with a full
understanding that he's done nothing and the fear being used
against him. Just let us and we'll let you go,
(35:01):
even though you haven't done anything and we have no
probable cost to search or arrest you. But we know
you're afraid, we know you're uncomfortable, and that you would
rather just go, so just let us do what we want.
Don't have any dignity, so don't even have any submit
to us, and we'll let you go. And in that
(35:24):
space of understanding that he'd done nothing to deserve what
was happening to him, and that all of his fears
and that nervousness they spoke of justified in that moment
he broke.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
I would you know, and this is not strictly relevant,
but I want to say it. I had to bury
my father, so I don't have anybody I could call.
(36:00):
That means that I'm the person who gets that call
and it's inconceivable. They're arresting me. Daddy weeping, wailing, grown son,
bullbeard dreadlocks. And then you can hear him on the
(36:22):
phone saying, why would you arrest my sons.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
With the terror?
Speaker 5 (36:27):
I mean, I'm gonna I'm gonna make an assumption that,
you know, considering his father's background, he's well aware of
exactly of what could happen. And then you know, I
think you know we're all parents here. Imagine that your
son is in is in a situation and there is
(36:48):
nothing you can do it. But listen, that's the thing.
It's not it's not your home. You're having dinner and
you discover something half to my child. But now you
get your child is.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
So you and I have been doing this show for
some time. Real quick, I want to shout out hot
ninety eight three and Tucson because this is where we're
debuting in Tucson today. But yeah, go out much love
(37:26):
to Tucson as well. But we've been doing the show
for a while and we were able to share this
story Once upon a time. It sounds very similar to
the story that I just shared, so I want to
go through it briefly so that if you're listening to
my voice, you understand that there's a little bit of
context here and a personal experience that's it's almost identical.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Yeah, one of many experiences, but yes, specific when this
one is specific.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Yes, So in short, what happened was, once upon a time,
Q and I flew to Miami to pick up a
very nice Porsche. You purchased a Porsche for his fiance
and we were going to drive it back on a
road trip. The car was for the one that she
(38:18):
wanted was in Florida, so we had to fly there
to get it. We're driving back, beautiful road trip, We're
seeing all these states and having a good time. Cars
brand new. We get into Mississippi and you really wanted
to get out of Mississippi. We were in Alabama first
and then we went to Mississippi, so.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi in that order.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
Yeah, and you're running like the gauntlet, yeah, man.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
And it was night and this was at the height
of what we've been dealing with. So we're seeing signs, flags.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Yeah, the Confederate flags, all that stuff, and a lot
of the Trump trucks and all that sort of stuff,
and not not like in a way to support Trump,
but in a way to intimidate us. That's how it was. Really,
That's the way I remember it, because I've seen Trump
trucks in where I live in Arizona, and it's just
people were proud of Donald Trump, I guess, but these
were specifically to intimidate, like they would be alongside like
(39:17):
other signs and verbiage and you know, uh we we
What did they say, like we killed rap music? Something
like that. Had had the word kill and rap music
in the same sentence on a sign with a Donald
Trump flag.
Speaker 5 (39:31):
It was like, whoa not not to take this take
this off another direction? But what does it say that
a political candidate, a president's name, former president's name can
be used in that fashion. I mean, I as involved
with as I've been in politics, I cannot think of
you know, I don't remember somebody being able to say like,
(39:52):
you know, Reagan nineteen eighty four, and you know, as
as a form to like, you know, as a verbal
you know, punches.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
Yeah, it's crazy, man, you know.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
I mean, I love Barack Obama, but yeah, I'll have
a sticker.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
On my car, yeah, or a flag on my yard.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
Yeah, I mean I was.
Speaker 5 (40:09):
I got a T shirt that I wear, you know,
when I march at the MLK Parade, and that's about
the only time it gets out of the closet.
Speaker 4 (40:15):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
So anyway, we're in Mississippi. We're almost out of there.
We're almost in the Louisiana queues.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Driving it's three o'clock in the morning. It's dark dark,
it's no street lights, dark moon light. That's all in
the cut Records dot com. We was out there dark.
Then those trees are real big.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Oh yeah, the tree and the trees are so tall
the moonlight you can't see anything. So what happens is
in Arizona, there's grooves in the in the road that
will wake you up if you're drifting one side or another.
But in Mississippi, the grooves are actually the white line.
The line is the groove.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Yes, the grooves are not on the side of the
road like here, they're in the they divide the lane
the group.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Yes, so if so, if your tire touches it just
a little bit, it'll make that loud noise. And so
that happened, and the police were able to hear it,
and so they get behind us and they pull us over.
And you know, as you mentioned, like being able to
only listen to what's happening. So what happens is the
police come to the car and they start talking to Q.
(41:25):
He was driving at the time. The car has a
paper license plate, it's a new Porsche, and uh, you know,
just interacting with Q, he says, no, sir, I've never
drank alcohol in my life, never tried a drugs, never
done a drug in my life. And that's something that's
true of me as well. I've never me Ramses has
(41:46):
never also never tried a drug or never done out.
But the thing is to be able to say that
and meaning that's the truth, you know. So there was
nothing beyond that. And of course I'm talking to Q.
You can tell, okay, this person is not intoxicated, it's
not inebriated. There wasn't a huge swear. It was just
about maybe one second or half of a second worth
(42:09):
of a noise. And then we explained, well, you know,
we're driving to Arizona. We didn't know that the lines
are there, and that's just kind of a thing. We're
changing radio, whatever was happening. I don't even know if
we said anything like that, but early on they were
able to determine that there was no inebriation in the
equation and so and so that should have been the
end of it. Yeah, but would you mind stepping out
(42:32):
of the car? Police are so now Q has to
get out of the car. So what do I do.
I go into panic mode and I pull out my phone,
but I don't record it because they're gonna do whatever
they're gonna do to Q. I know they're going to
do it to me, So I go to Facebook Live.
The problem is that I can't see Q out the
back of the car because those police lights are so bright.
(42:53):
So I'm just filming and my phone is about to
die because we were jamming the outcast all through the
you know, the South. We're like, just you know, that's
just kind of yeah, man, we're on our level. So
so what happens is, uh, you know, just like I predicted,
the officer comes back to the car and asks for
my ID. Now I'm still on Facebook Live, and now
(43:14):
I have a good number of folks that have been
able to see. Oh there's police sirens. And remember the
climate in the country at the time.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
And remember what time it was.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
Yes, it's late at night, so it's real early out
here in Phoenix.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
No even here it was late though. That's what made
it even more scary, Like it's three there, it's midnight here,
one o'clock here, Okay.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Something like that. Yeah, so there's hundreds of people looking
at this, right. And then the last thing that happens
is he gives me back my ID and he says,
can you step out of the car?
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Police?
Speaker 1 (43:43):
And I'm like uh, and then my phone dies. So
everybody that's watching that now, these people are crying, These
people are calling calling calls terrified. You know, all of
my friends, every my family, everyone was so worried and
that so that speaks to that helplessness that you experience
when there's nothing you can do because you're on the
(44:03):
other side of a phone call. Anyway, they pull us
out of the car, and I'm giving you the quick
and dirty version of the story. But once they pull
us out of the car, they say, can we search
the vehicle? And we say, yes, please search the vehicle
because a we're not moving a house full of stuff
(44:23):
like the Gentleman was in Arkansas. It's a brand new car,
so there's nothing to search. I think we might have
had a backpack each.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
And we don't want to start an adversarial relationship with
a highway patrol officer and a state trooper or a
sheriff at three o'clock in the morning in Mississippi.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Sure out of state boom.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
So, Yeah, we know our rights, but no, we're trying
to get home to our baby.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
We would rather not upset you right now.
Speaker 4 (44:49):
Well, I mean here's the thing with rights.
Speaker 5 (44:50):
I mean, knowing your rights and being able to live
to make this case can be two different things. Yes,
what in that situation, it's you, it's the cops, and
there's nobody else.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
Sir. You can search the car, my shoes, my bag,
this hat, I have on my pockets. What you need. Listen, man,
I got the spare tire compartment. Look at my ears
because this is a hybrid. There's a compartment that you
might not know about. You can check that if you
look under there. It's right there, sir.
Speaker 4 (45:19):
You got some unopened waters, yes, please.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
So listen. So what they do is they get the dog,
and you know, they after he gives the flashlight and
does the whole thing, they get the dog. So we're
waiting out on the side of the road terrified. I'm terrified.
Q was fortunately playing a little cooler because he had
a little bit more information than I did because he
was out talking to the officers already. But I was
terrified because why in the world do I need to
(45:43):
get out of the car? And I challenged them later.
I was like, you know, if Q was a sixty
five year old, privileged corporate executive driving the same car
and I was his, you know wife, a forty five
year old white female, blond hair, blue eyed, would we
be standing on the side of the road for two
and a half hours for five minutes dogs to search
the car, you know? Or would the story have gone
(46:05):
any different? And that was my charge to them anyway,
bring the dogs out. And you wouldn't believe me if
I told you so. Yeah, the dog indicated the president's
the presence of narcotics in the car, so we're going
to have to do a full search of the vehicle. Whoa, okay,
we just got the car yesterday. And and then long
(46:28):
story short, the dog searches the car, and then he
searches the car, searches all puts it, puts the blue
gloves on, goes through and everything like that. And then
what he told us was that, you know, if the
dog's nose is so sensitive that if somebody had a
joint in their pocket and brushed up against the carr
(46:51):
or brushed against the car in a grocery store parking lot.
And remember we're driving down the highway at seventy five
eighty miles an hour across states plural since the last
time we stopped, because you know, those things are pretty
good on gas. It was a hybrid. So but it
just seems so like such a reach in it. And
that's where my you know, black folks have historically had
(47:15):
a deep distrust of the whole judicial system, the political system, and.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
Of course.
Speaker 4 (47:22):
On the history behind Oh yes, yeah, of course.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
But it was so it wasn't a surprise, but it
was kind of reaffirmed in our interaction that Okay, you
just made that up. That doesn't that doesn't even make
any sense. First off, no one leaned against the car
was on a car lot, and then we had it
and we've been with it ever since, and no one
we've been around even does that. There's no way, you know,
and someone leans the How likely is it that someone
(47:45):
leaned against this car in a grocery store parking lot
with a join in their pocket and then the smell
stayed on the fender.
Speaker 4 (47:55):
Or whatever.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Right, So it just it's so outlandish and outrageous that
it again and further at least told me that the
mistrust that I have of mistrust is too strong a word.
I don't want to I don't want to, yeah, to
really believe a face value what an officer says to me,
especially if it sounds a little just it doesn't really
(48:17):
sound feasible. I kind of know what I'm looking at
when I'm looking at it. And in that instance, in particular,
I don't believe it wasn't black and white thing as
much as it was a policing of a black people
thing because the officer, I want to be fair, the officer.
What we found out later was we might have been half.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
Black, both of those guys were black. And the reason
why that's such a massive reveal is, once again, we
were in Mississippi. This is a sheriff and the state trooper.
It's three o'clock in the morning, and in Mississippi, the
Mississippi draw sounds like the Mississippi draw.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
Doesn't respect your race. It's so heavy.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
So before we can see them, because remember flashlights and
the big bright light on the police vehicles, we can't see.
We can just hear. So what Rams just spoke to before,
there was some relief on my part because when I
got out of the car and looked and saw someone
that looks like you, I didn't think I was gonna
die anymore.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
But that doesn't mean we're out of the woods at all,
you know. It just okay, maybe it's not as mission
critical as we once thought. So again, if you're just
tuning in to Civic Sipher, I'm you host Rams' job.
They called me q Ward and our guest today Patrick C. Brown,
(49:40):
a member of the NAACP Political Action Committee, and I
do want to talk about these voter suppression initiatives. So
real quick, let's let's frame what that is.
Speaker 5 (49:57):
Okay, So let's let's let's talk about I mean, voting.
Voting has had a very interesting history in our country.
And you know, I guess the frame it. I want
to take us back to the start, you know, to
the founding of America. So when you go back to
you know, George Washington, you know that era of time,
(50:17):
not everybody could vote. So our country has never been
all in on democracy and on you know, voting, which
is you know, the you say, the essence of democracy.
And so originally to vote, you had to be a
white male and you had to own land. Yeah, so
you can think, you know, if you're not a white
male and you don't own land, then you don't vote.
(50:39):
Now we can fast forward, you know, through through the
years and eventually, you know, all white men could vote,
and then you know, we said, okay, you know, you
don't have to own you know, land, things like that. Eventually,
you know, women would get the vote, because that wouldn't
be intil like the nineteen twenties. Actually, you know, African
American men would get to vote before any women for
(50:59):
the Native American community. And so as you can you know,
as you go through this, you can see that voting
has always been an issue now here's what is so
crazy about voting. We live in a country where we
desperately want people to be involved in their communities and
(51:20):
politics things like that, but we also make it so
difficult to do. But what's even worse is we gaslight
and we tell people, you know, your vote matters, voting
is important, but then we tell them like, you know,
but then you know, we say, you know, the vote
is so important, we make.
Speaker 4 (51:36):
It very, very difficult to actually do.
Speaker 5 (51:39):
And so what we're seeing basically post the twenty twenty
election is that you know, one political party y'all probably
know I'm talking about the Republican Party is and this
is not just Arizona's across the country. You know, Georgia,
Kansas just passed and crazy, but we'll talk just about Arizona.
Is that with this election, they're now trying to change
(52:02):
the game. And so a couple couple of items like
this could be a whole show in its own bout.
I'll keep it pretty simple here in Arizona, we have
had we've enjoyed mail in ballots and now the acronym
is pebble. That's you may have heard that, but it's
it's mail in ballot and we've had that since like
about ninety six, and so it's pretty straightforward. You sign
(52:26):
up on the permanent early voting list. That's what Pebble
stands for. And basically you get a ballot for every
election as long as you you know, don't move and
don't update your your information that if you know, if
you move and you update your information, your ballot will
find you. And this is for federal elections, state elections,
local elections, all that.
Speaker 4 (52:45):
And it's worked really well because.
Speaker 5 (52:47):
About eighty percent of the folks in Arizona love Pebble
and this is like across party lines. Everybody likes having
that convenience because you can sit at home, you can
fill out your ballot, you can pop it in the mail,
you can take it to know the voting center, you
can take it to you know, the county Recorder's office,
popping in their dropbox, and you're good. A lot in
the last couple of years technologies and even better, you
(53:09):
get a little text message when your ballot goes out.
Once you fill out your ballot, you know, it gets
received a text message, Hey, we've got your ballot. Your
vote has been captured. All these great things but what's
interesting now is suddenly folks are having issues or I'll
say the Republicans are having issues with mail vote by mail,
(53:32):
and so we're the first thing we're saying is we're
seeing a bill that wants to take the permanent out
of permanent early voting list.
Speaker 4 (53:39):
So how now the bill is?
Speaker 5 (53:41):
And I don't have to pull up my cheat sheet
here the bill is, I want to say, it is
SPH fourteen eighty five. And if you' all on Google,
if if I'm wrong, you guys will I'm sure we'll
let Ramses know and I apologize. But like I said,
I just want to get to the heart of information.
So with this is how this would work is if
(54:02):
this bill passes, and it's currently floating around in the
state legislature. So as of today, I believe that it
was supposed to go up for a floor vote in
the House today, a couple of amendments to be added
to the bill, and so ultimately what happened is that
that bill is going to be pushed to next week.
(54:22):
So because they've broken for you know, because it's a
good Friday, they're not gonna do anything. But with Pebble,
what happens is is that if you don't utilize your
mail in ballot, meaning if you receive your ballot and
you do.
Speaker 4 (54:32):
Not mail it back, then you can be removed from
the list.
Speaker 5 (54:36):
And so now people may think that's not a big deal,
but what a lot of people do is their ballots
come to their home, they fill out the ballot, they
take it and drop it off at the polling place
on election day or a couple of days out, or
they'll take it to the counter recorder. So if you
do that, you could then lose being off with pebble.
And what's really scary about this is people may not
(54:56):
realize this until it's too late. Sure, And why this
is I think a big this is really going to
impact negatively, you know, black and brown communities, is that
we already have an issue with having enough polling places
or enough working equipment. Now I would I want to
you know, I want to be fair that in previous
elections we've been fortunate that there's been a good sense
(55:18):
of equity. But you know what, if you have a
lot of people voting, it's gonna be lines and all
thing goes with it. So now, if you don't use
that you likehood, you may not vote, and you may
not even know that you know, you've been kicked off
the list.
Speaker 1 (55:34):
And this is just one.
Speaker 2 (55:35):
Oh, this is yeah, there's there's there's many, there's many yes.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
So here's the thing that I think it's important that
it helps frame this, and that's that people need to
understand that the less votes are, the less voting that
actually takes place, the more it favors the Republican party
historically speaking. And so the Republicans have an interest in
suppressing votes across the board because the less people that vote,
(56:02):
the more people that vote, the more we're a democratic
leaning country. It's just the voting system favors Republicans, right.
Speaker 5 (56:10):
And when it comes down to it is you know,
in the hear and now Republicans when or they do
better when they electorate.
Speaker 1 (56:18):
As small as possible boom.
Speaker 5 (56:20):
So you know, you could say common sense would be
if people aren't voting for you, that means they don't
like your ideas, they don't like your policies, so it
would make sense to them adjust what the people. Instead,
they're going the opposite direction, saying no, what we're gonna
do is we're gonna shrink that down. And so that
means people of color, the elderly, the folks are disabled,
(56:40):
all the people who benefit this are not going to
not vote.
Speaker 1 (56:45):
So and because this is just one example of this,
and there are many others, I want to talk about
what folks can do to challenge is to combat this
or where can they go? Where's they're more inform How
can folks keep up with you, support you, follow you,
strand you know the much larger movement.
Speaker 5 (57:06):
Okay, so I'm gonna I'm gonna give a shout out
to a really great organization because I think this is
probably the easiest for y'all listening. There's a group called
Progress Arizona. I'm working with those guys. They're amazing. They're
in the trenches every day with this stuff. I mean,
they're at the capitol. I would follow Progress Arizona. They're
on Instagram, they're on Facebook, they're on Twitter, and they
also you know, they put this stuff out. They're also
(57:28):
on YouTube. The YouTube channel is really great because they
do they do a quick, like two minute video of
all the things happening in a legislature each week, very digestible. Now,
as for these type of bills, because of where we're at,
you need to contact your state legislator.
Speaker 4 (57:43):
You need to call that person up now.
Speaker 5 (57:45):
If you don't know who it is, I'll just go
to azledge dot org and then at that point you
just need to type in your information.
Speaker 1 (57:52):
I'll tell you know who's representing.
Speaker 5 (57:54):
Who's representing you, call that person, email that person because
at this point now they're getting to the stage where
the vote's gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (58:01):
All right, So this will become especially useful to black
folks if you are a non black person, an ally
to black people, because in those spaces, perhaps your voice
may carry a little bit more weight. And so if
you've been wondering what more can you do to support
(58:21):
your African American brothers and sisters, your Latino brothers and sisters,
there's an opportunity here for you to reach out to
your legislator and take action against these voter suppresion initiatives.
But that's about all the time we have for this week.
Once again, want to thank you for tuning in Pacific Cipher.
I'm your host rams this job.
Speaker 2 (58:38):
They call me q Ward.
Speaker 1 (58:40):
Be sure to hit the website Civiccipher dot com to
download this. In any previous shows, please submit topics, anything
you want us to discuss, follow our social media at
Civic Cipher and don't forget to donate if you can.
And until next week, y'all, peace,
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