Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome back everyone
.
I am very excited to welcome anew scholar with us today.
With us is Dr Aaron Zubia.
He is an assistant professor ofhumanities at the Hamilton
School for Classic and CivicEducation at the University of
Florida.
So our friends on the otherside of the country, dr Zubia,
we are so excited to have youand we get to talk about Thomas
(00:26):
Paine and Common Sense.
So our question is what isCommon Sense by Thomas Paine and
why does it matter?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Thank you, liz.
It's great to be here and thatis a great question.
Thomas Paine's Common Sense waspublished in January 1776, an
important year we know.
That is the year that theDeclaration of Independence was
written, published andcelebrated in the United States.
(00:56):
And Tom Paine, who had grown upin the UK, had grown up in
England.
He had come over to the US toescape debtor's prison.
He had had a variety of jobs,including school teacher.
When he was in England he metBenjamin Franklin and so when he
came over to the United Stateshe met up with Franklin.
(01:17):
Franklin set him up at aprinting shop in Philadelphia.
Thomas Paine soon became theeditor of Pennsylvania Magazine
and he did not have a privilegedupbringing.
He came from a commonbackground and he had a way with
words.
(01:37):
He could write to the commonman.
So he came from a commonbackground, could write to the
common man and he wrote what hethought was common sense.
So in January 1776, he wroteCommon Sense.
It sold 100,000 copies, whichwas a lot of copies for that day
(01:59):
and age, and he was saying itis common sense for us not to
seek reconciliation with GreatBritain and to seek instead
independence.
So he said it's common sensethat the colonies in America, on
this continent, should not beruled by an island.
(02:21):
Ruled by an island, he said,practically the distance between
the two.
It doesn't make sense.
You look at the Americancolonies.
They have grown up.
It is now time for theAmericans to rule themselves.
And so he presented this ascommon sense.
Now it's interesting, thomasPaine he wrote for the common
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man and he wrote about commonsense.
But he did not necessarily sharethe ideas of the common man.
For instance, he was really achild of the Enlightenment,
critical of OrthodoxChristianity.
He was more of a deist.
He was very critical ofhierarchies, of the nobility of
(03:03):
titles, but this contributed tohis argument that custom,
tradition, these don't havelegitimacy, authority on the
American continent.
It is time to think about whatis necessary now for a new
people to govern themselvesthrough representatives, to
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govern themselves in ademocratic way, without a
monarch, without aristocrats,without nobility, without any
inherited titles.
So Paine was operating on theidea of natural equality and
since nobody is born with anyright to rule over another, we
(03:48):
should be able to rule ourselvesdemocratically.
And although Thomas Paine wasnot an Orthodox Christian, he
used the language of Scripture.
He also argued that it wascommon sense for us not to have
a monarchy.
Because in scripture,particularly in books like
Judges, in the Hebrew scriptures, 1 Samuel, god says you
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shouldn't have a king.
I'm your king, I'm your onlyking.
I should.
You know, for the people ofIsrael, god is in charge.
Yet the people they wanted, inthe case of Gideon, to make him
king.
They wanted.
They ultimately chose.
You know, saul was anointedking, but the Israelites said we
want a king.
And in Scripture, the prophetSamuel says I'm warning you,
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it's a bad idea.
It's a bad idea.
And Tom Paine looks at theseScriptures and says the Hebrew
people, they were a republic andwhen they became a monarchy
they were corrupted.
And so he's looking, he's usingthe arguments of Scripture,
he's using arguments fromequality and he is a radical
Democrat.
(04:56):
And this sat a little bituncomfortably with some of the
founders.
For example, george Washingtonwas no radical.
Tom Paine was a radical,radical Democrat.
Yet Paine had a way ofgenerating support for the cause
of revolution and he joined theContinental Army and he wrote a
(05:20):
series of 16 pamphlets calledCrisis, the first of those with
the famous opening these are theTimes that Try Men's Souls.
I really struck a chord withWashington, and he read this
first pamphlet to the army in1776, I think it's 1776, before
(05:43):
he crossed the Delaware, beforethe surprise attack on the
British in Trenton.
George Washington wrote he readThomas Paine's words to the
troops and inspired them.
And so Paine was very useful atthis time and at this
revolutionary moment.
Later on he'd write the Rightsof man and the Age of Reason.
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These were books that spokehighly about reason and science
and enlightenment values, and itcriticized priestcraft and
orthodox elements ofChristianity.
But by this time, paine, intothe 1790s, he had become a
supporter of the FrenchRevolution, he had been in
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prison during the Terror and heblamed George Washington for not
freeing him from prison, and bythis time his reputation had
really declined.
So when you see Tom Paine, thevoice of a radical Democrat,
highly useful for generatinginterest and support for the
revolutionary cause, later on hebecame a divisive figure, a
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polarizing figure, one whodidn't have much sway after that
revolutionary moment, but in1776, a voice that hadn't been
heard before, with fiery,passionate rhetoric, perfect for
the time, fit for the time tospur on the cause of revolution
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and to support the signing, thewriting and the signing of the
Declaration of Independence.
And so, when you think aboutcommon sense in 1776 and Tom
Paine's message to the Americans, it is this it's time to grow
up, it's time to rule yourself,it's time to institute new forms
(07:35):
for a new age and to not relyon the kingship and the nobility
of Great Britain yes, a mightyempire, but only an island, and
a distant one at that.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
I'm going to ask a
question on the American crisis
because I know that a lot ofstudents read this in school and
you know it's not like todaywhere where, like you know,
thomas Paine would make a TikTokvideo or something to like get
people going.
Why was writing pamphlets likethe American Crisis so important
to swaying people like ofopinions?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Great question In the
Enlightenment era, the 18th
century, in England and inFrance the public sphere is
forming essays and pamphlets.
They are read in coffee shops,gardens, theaters.
So it's not like the coffeeshop today where you see, you
(08:37):
know, a bunch of people on theirlaptop hey, I do that too.
Great place to write.
But there are pamphletsavailable, they're being read
out loud, they're being talkedabout, they're generating
conversation.
So this, I mean it really issimilar to the function that
(08:59):
TikTok forms today, except it'snot an isolated experience where
you just look at your screenand you're being spoken to
directly, but it is the way tocommunicate to the people.
It's a shorter form, the politeessay written for those who are
literate, men and women infashionable society who are
discussing these ideas.
(09:19):
They're increasingly interestedin contemporary affairs.
So he is using the meansavailable to him to spread the
word about the Americanrevolutionary effort, about the
need for independence, and so itis interesting to think about.
You know the means available toyou, and that was a more
(09:40):
elevated means, I'd argue, thanthe means at our disposal today.
But people were reading this, asis evidenced by 100,000 copies
being sold very early on.
For Thomas Paine's Common Sense, I think of really prominent
books of political theory thathave been written recently.
I mean, I think, the mostinfluential book you know in
(10:03):
political theory over the last10 years, Patrick Deneen's why
Liberalism Failed.
Last year he said I've sold60,000 copies.
That's good and you think aboutthat's today, 2025, you know
60,000 copies and this is 1776,100,000 copies.
People were reading this andacting on it.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
And it's interesting
too that you said you know
Thomas Paine was really, reallyimportant, but for a really
short time.
But it just goes to show thatyou know we will later talk
about George Washington, likethere's all these figures that
we know were really importantand really kind of in the
political sphere for a while.
But Thomas Paine, even thoughhe wasn't there for a while, was
(10:47):
still important and still hadan effect on the American
Revolution and how people saw it.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Absolutely, and I
think that's part of his
character.
If you're thinking of thecharacter of Thomas Paine, I
mean he was sort of a he wasrowdy, a kind of rabble rouser.
He was, you know, reputed to bea drunkard, you know he was.
He was very passionate, perhapsa little impetuous, but that's
(11:15):
a useful skill in his case tofire people up.
And so it was.
You know his moment, you knowhis biggest moment.
He wrote in future thing.
You know, he wrote papers inthe future, he wrote books in
the future and those are stillread today.
Those still had an influence.
So I don't want to minimizethose later works, but they
didn't have the effect of commonsense.
(11:36):
I don't want to minimize thoselater works but they didn't have
the effect of common sense.
I mean it was.
He was like a flash oflightning, you know.
I mean perfect time, perfectplace, and in some ways his
faults, his character flaws, youknow, contributed to his being
able to write in the way that hedid, to galvanize people.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Wonderful, Dr Zubia.
Thank you so much.
I feel like I say this everyepisode, but it's so true.
I mean, I was a teacher for 17years.
We read these documents, welearned, but I have learned more
from you in the brief time thatwe've talked than I have
learned in a very long time.
So thank you so much for yourtime and your expertise.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
It was a lot of fun.
Thank you for having.